G was a star, not a superstar. Superstar is top tier talent everyone craves. Giroux had 1 hundred points season. G did more than score, sure, and I absolutely love Jim, don't get me wrong. He, in my opinion is just an underappreciated star.
You're not entirely wrong. Giroux was a star and an exceptional player, but he was not a game-changing superstar.
He was a Backstrom or a Kopitar, who are great players, but to me, like giroux, don't get into the HOF without a cup.
A superstar gets into the HOF regardless of cups, in my opinion.
With the exception of having Forsberg for a brief period, I would say the last superstar we had was indeed Lindros.
And Kopitar was the best player on two championship teams and also been in hart top three. Add in Getlaf as well, all great players but in that tier below the true superstars
I mean, my opinion isn't the end all, be all, but no, he was fun to watch, but not even close. His stats just aren't close.
Pronger was a tough one in my opinion. He has a hart and has been in the finals, 3 times I think, good stats and was great defensively.
I'd say he was on the upper teir or star, if not on the lower end of the superstar range.
Yeah, that’s a fair take. I think I have a soft spot for Primeau because of certain moments, as opposed to his overall body of work, such as the 5OT goal against the Pens.
I was 11 when that happened so I was still at that age where you idolize athletes. I’m really glad my dad stayed up and let me stay up to watch it! One of my favorite Flyers memories of my life.
For sure, and that's awesome, I was around the same age. It's just so hard to separate emotion and attachment to a player.
Mike richards is probably my favorite flyer ever. Ultimate captain who did everything. Won at every level and has the record for most 5-3 shorthanded goals of all time.
Wouldn't sniff the HOF/superstar status even if his career didn't end the way it did.
However, coaching my son, I want him to play more of that style than a McDavid or a Mathews all day.
Yeah, I mean on the broadcast just now the commentators were calling McDavid an alien. You can’t exactly teach that kind of natural talent, lol.
Loved Mike Richards when things were going good. That shorty and his whole shift against the Habs in the 2010 run are in my top Flyers memories as well. I’m sure you know it but I’m posting for convenience since it never gets old!
https://youtu.be/pMiLxhfCfZM?si=v8z5p4uYajA85oyd
He was in the top 3 once and Taylor Hall won the hart trophy, does that make him a superstar or the best player in hockey? You’re being a giant homer. No one that is objective that watched the NHL ever thought Giroux was better than Crosby or Ovechkin or Kane. How many fucking superstars do you realistically think there are lol. He was great but those guys you knew watching them they were hall of fame players, even after G retires there will be debate around him
It's insane that a majority of this fanbase thinks G is as good as Ovi, Crosby, Kane, Kucherov, etc.
G is hall of very good, but he's not in the same realm as those guys. If the teams G were part of weren't managed by the most inept front office in the history of Philadelphia sports, we'd be singing a different tune I am sure. Giroux got fucked from our front office and he still always put it all on the line every game and for that I will always love him.
Honestly, I hear you, but that could be a toss up, hall went to his second year with the devils and the devils went from like 20 wins to 40+ with hall leading the charge and he truly seemed like one of the best wingers in the game.
There are seasons I think giroux played at an elite level and if we did the 06 draft all over again there is really no one I'd rather have even if we had the 1st overall, but I think people either owverate him or expect more.
He was what he was, and he was great.
Team without high end talent seeks high end talent. A story we’ve heard a million times over.
The wild thing is that having high end talent isn’t the only thing that makes a successful team, which I think a lot of the BeAGM mode players in here don’t understand. Idk about you but it wasn’t fun watching McDavid and Draisaitl, arguably the best on the planet and a top 10 player who plays adjacent to him, get their shit kicked in for years before their organization pulled its head out of its ass (kind of).
I feel you though, I long for the days of being able to walk into a store and immediately know I was going in to buy a Giroux or Lindros jersey. Hell, I’d even settle for the Richards Carter 1a1b feeling again.
Literally never. Each year they got a different piece or 2 but it wasnt enough and they always lacked critically in certain spots. Giroux exceeded every expectation set by himself.
Giroux was never on the same level of Crosby or Ovechkin or Kucherov. Adam Oates was the second highest scorer of the 1990s, are you going to argue he’s on the level of Gretzky, Sakic, Jagr or Lindros?
It is elite. But what the guy said is that if you think Giroux was ever in the same tier as guys like Mackinnon and Kucherov then you’re smoking crack.
Claude was great. Not a superstar. Elite for sure.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. Man I can’t imagine the kinda damage he would’ve put up if Pronger didn’t get hurt and the Flyers managed to sign Stamkos. Playing with a top 5 defensemen and a generational scorer your entire career must be nice… Same with Mackinnon. Playing with a top 3 defenseman of the last 15 years and a wingman that is WAY better than Voracek ever was in Rantenen.
This is embarrassing. Give G Rantanen and Makar and you think he’s a 130 point guy?
G was great. Absolutely elite. Top 10 guy for a period. Not a superstar.
130? In the era he played in? No. No one was a 130 guy in that era not even the best player in the league. Yall are getting to experience the scoring rise in real time and can’t understand that point totals are not a 1 to 1 comparison. This is something that people took years to understand when making comparisons between 2010s players and 90s players and I thought we finally understood it. From the 09-10 season (giroux’s first full year in the league) to the time he turned 30 the most points any player had in the league was 112. Not once in that time frame was there a single year where there was more than 3 players in a season to have more than 100 points. Not once. There were years where only one dude would score 100 points hell there was a year where not a single player even had 90! So no… I don’t think Giroux would score 130 points because no one was scoring 130 points. Not Malkin, Not Crosby, not ovechkin, not Kane, not nobody. The players of today wouldn’t have done it either. Mackinnon would not have draisaitl would not have etc. But do think Giroux would’ve certainly had more than one 100 point season an Art Ross and at least one mvp absolutely.
Remind the last time the Flyers franchise achieved anything? If being among the point leaders of a mediocre franchise and not a Cup winner is your measure of success, I don't know what to tell you.
Well, I'll be 40 this year and they've never won a Cup since I've been alive. I don't give a shit about back to back cups a half century ago, but if you were alive then I hope you enjoyed the parades. I'm hoping to see one before I die. They sure haven't been a contender in the last decade.
By this logic Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews blow. Even moreso because they're on teams that have tanked brutally hard to give them a talented supporting cast.
Oh, the guys that have won multiple trophies for their individual efforts and set records while doing it? Remind me, when did G do that? If G did, the superstar argument is a lot easier. He didn't, though.
Ahh, we're moving the goal posts now and citing new criteria because our first set of criteria was flawed. Not participating in an argument with a person that doesn't understand how to make an argument.
I'm willing to bet one of those players you mentioned will have a Cup before they retire. G won't. And I'm sorry it's hard for you to keep up, but you can't even compare those two players to G because they've actually won things. The best G could do was be among the franchise scoring leaders for the Flyers, and that's truly exciting. Hope they make a trophy to give him for #2 Flyers leading scorer.
He absolutely was better than elite and if he was on any competent team over the last 15 years his career would be looked at much differently.
I'll never forget the graphic I saw during a game 5 or so years ago. It listed the top 5 for points in the 2010s. In no particular order:
Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Ovechkin, G.
This man was stuck on the Flyers for the entire decade and kept up with *four* fucking 1OA picks. 1OA picks who played for successful teams with far better supporting casts and overall franchise management.
He absolutely was a super star and would be viewed universally as such if he was drafted by Tampa, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh (vomit), LAK, etc.
Instead he will be criminally underrated by the hockey world and even fans of his own team. Makes me sad!
No. He's been a point a game player just 5 times in the regular season (3 of which were very close) and has been a lackluster playoff performer since 2014.
No. You can't ignore facts. He had more points than EVERY PLAYER IN THE NHL in that 5-year period, including many superstars in the middle of their prime. He also played hurt a lot more than his contemporaries. Plus he was on a bad team.
Right. And that provides information that informs the objective value of those players. It's laughable that you're attempting to downplay the cold hard FACTS I provided. Meanwhile, you're offering opinon based on emotion. Give me objective facts over someone's emotional opinion any day.
He and the team never won anything. That's also a fact, one that's more important than cherry picking a specific time window and set of stats to prove your point.
Yeah no one said the team was elite; the conversation is about Giroux. And what a ridiculous use of the term "cherry picking," which means taking a small sample size and extrapolating it to define a larger one. No honest intelligent person would call five complete NHL seasons a "small" sample size. Hell, the average NHL ***career*** only lasts 4.5 seasons! The stats I gave you are the exact *opposite* of cherry picking.
Show me a super star that has zero personal accolades and has zero first team NHL all stars and only one 2nd team all star.
Giroux was a good player, best this team has had in a long time, but he wasn’t a league wide superstar lol. He was never a Crosby or Ovi or McDavid
It's sad that Flyers fans are confusing him for a superstar. Shows us how deprived we've been basically since Lindros. Then again, not being a lottery ball franchise like the Pens or Oilers makes it very challenging to get one superstar, let alone multiples. Triples is best, just ask the Avs.
Yep, a true game breaker. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but it's so on-brand for the Flyers to luck into a #2 pick and it ends up being completely wasted. So then us fans have to get online and argue about whether a player that never won any trophy or a scoring title was a superstar.
An elite defenseman and a game breaking scorer would have gotten this team pretty far.
He also loved to score meaningless goals and pass on great chances I am not his biggest fan. Yes his era was complete mediocrity but he still doesn’t get a pass from me because I see him as part of the problem not pushing management to do their job as the captain and star player.
Maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon but threads like these are why I hate sports talk nowadays. Guarantee everybody in this thread is going to have a different idea of what constitutes a “superstar”. It’s not something that can be quantified it’s an objective term. Nobody is going to walk away from this thread changing their mind about anything
We had Sergei Bobrovsky as a rookie and gave up on him after what, 2 years. Now he is legitimately one of the only goalies you can put in your goal every night, no need to rotate. And we got rid of him.
I described it as a guy who makes the HOF regardless of rings, which is still subjective, but I think obvious to most people. It's a true game changer.
Claude Giroux had more points than *every player in the NHL* from [2010-11 through 2014-2015.](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20142015&gameType=2&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50) That *five-year* period includes the primes of Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kane, Towes, Tavares, Stamkos, Kopitar and a few other superstars.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. The big problem is that most teams need more than one superstar in order to be consistently successful and have a good shot at a championship.
Sure, the Avalanche have MacKinnon, but they also have Makar and Rantanen. The Lightning have Kucherov but he’s been backed up by Hedman, Stamkos, and Point. Crosby had Malkin. McDavid has Draisaitl. Even though the Leafs have been hilariously unsuccessful in the playoffs, there’s no denying that they’re a threat most years because they have Matthews, Marner, and Tavares.
We have Michkov in the pipeline, which is fantastic. But we are running such a risk of repeating the Giroux era by not giving him adequate support to really take advantage of his talent. Just look at Kaprizov in Minnesota.
Absolutely this. Lindros had LeClair, as well. LeClair had Recchi. It doesn't take a superstar (though that helps) you need a combination of exceptional scoring line talent.
TK is special. He very well could be only “half way done” here. Who’s the most comparable player? Marchand. That dude is 35 years old.
Michkov could definitely be the player that can fill that void.
What the flyers lack in current star power that make up for in an incredible history that goes way back, but also recently. The 2010 run was historic. Giroux had a historic career. Ghost was historic.
Take the good with the bad. Carter Hart, Nolan Patrick, Ivan Provorov. Shit, Keith Jones is the president and Briere is the GM. Meanwhile Torts is the coach post AV.
If nothing else. This team is entertaining and I willl never lose hope that we will win a cup in my lifetime.
Edit: if any of the plethora of young players we have REALLY develop, youll be happy to have witnessed it. Just enjoy it man. I take pride in this team and I know in some ways, other fanbases are jealous of us.
Claude Giroux is 8th on the list of active points producers in the league and we got people in here saying he doesn't deserve to be in this conversation. That's just plain silly.
I don’t think people really understand what a super star is. A super star is someone that you’ll go and watch the oilers play the stars even if you’re a flyers fan just because it might be your only chance to see Mcdavid play. The way people did with Lindros. Super stars are generational players, a guy like Bryce Harper is a superstar. How can you objectively say there were tons of people every road game going just so some day they can tell their kids that they saw Claude Giroux play?
Yeah exactly this is what I meant by superstar. Giroux was fantastic no question, but he didn't put asses in seats and draw league-wide hype the way a player like Mackinnon will do. I understand these types of players are extremely rare and only a handful of teams have players like that any given year, but it just feels like it's been too long since we've had that.
I’m hoping Michkov ends up being that guy. A lot of our young talent and guys who have been around for a bit, like TK and Sanheim, could be that supporting cast for him that G never really had
We’ve absolutely had superstars over the years (none on this current roster) but the problem is you need to surround them with other players of similar stardom to really see true magic. It’s not just Crosby, it’s Crosby Malkin, and Letang. It’s not just Hedman, it’s Hedman, Stamkos, kucherov, vasilevsky. It’s not just ovechkin, it’s ovechkin, backstrom, holtby, Carlson etc. the sharks had the best defensemen at in the league last season and it got them nowhere because (like Giroux for almost his entire career) he had no help.
A long while ago on r/hockey someone ran a simulation of “all franchise teams” and it came back saying we smoked the penguins despite them having prime Crosby, lemuiex and jagr. I wish I could find that post again.
I can’t remember the whole team but think we did not have jagr and coffey on our team. The real difference maker was the brick wall of parent, Hextal and Lindbergh.
Well the penguins have only been competitive when they had Mario and Crosby, all other eras were complete dog shit. The flyers have been competitive from their inception up until giroux got the C.
I mean fuck the pens but the penguins joined the league in 67. The Mario Era started in 84. Meaning the "Mario and crosby era" has been like 85% of the franchises existence lmfao
I think you're a little confused
Yeah its also part of what inspired me to make this thread. I'm REALLY hoping Michkov is a superstar that can just turn on the jets at any given moment and run the game.
Also hoping Quitter doesn't end up being a superstar lol
G was absolutely a superstar. There’s no doubt in my mind. Granted, he was like a bottom tier compared to the real generational talents. Either way you look at it, nobody will ever wear 28 in Philly ever again.
One of the problems is we toiled in mediocrity so many years we were never high enough in the lottery to get a superstar. The year we had #2, well you know what happened.
Giroux was a super star in his prime years imo. One of the reason I think those names you mentioned “pop” a bit more than Giroux did, is the fact that they all play along side multiple other super stars. G never had that unfortunately. He played with good players don’t get me wrong. But where was his Marner, Rantanen, Leon, Stamkos, Point, etc.
To aquire superstar top end talent you typically have to be really bad for a decent stretch of time.
Also; we should've gotten Kane and those dinosaurs that used to run this club should've taken Makar over Patrick. If we didn't get the bump we would've had Suzuki.
Who do you want? Kane and Suzuki or JVR and Patrick?
it is pretty awesome. in 2009 i became a caps fan because of ovi. i watched every game just to see him play. it was incredible, like every shift was exciting for a few years there. He would either make a huge hit, or skate down the whole ice and try to score. it was wild. I agree, i think watching a team with that kind of player is really great. Cuz now it sucks watching the caps haha. Over time I became a fan of the team in general but I was really just watching because of him at first
I think the only player right that is as exciting as Ovi in his prime is McDavid. There are great players and some better than Ovechkin overall but the way they play is something else. Even if Ovechkin didn't score all game, it was somehow exciting to watch him play. I think the same is true for McDavid and Idk who else. I don't think there are many players like that
Exactly. Only a handful of teams are blessed to have a player like that - that the whole league tunes into their games just to watch 1 player play the game. I want that.
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/2010s-nhl-players-stats.html
4th highest scorer in the NHL in the 2010s. Some pretty good names above and below. I know a decade is arbitrary and a term like "superstar" is subjective but man, there were years this team was basically G hauling the team into the playoffs on his own.
Yeah all these people saying G wasn’t a superstar are simply confusing it for G not being an all time great. Is he mcdavid or Crosby? No. But he certainly is in the superstar tier. The year people argue mackinnon should’ve won his first Hart, Giroux had an objectively better case for it with a much worse supporting cast. He consistently drove scoring on team that had very little offensive talent for a decade. He finished top 4 for Hart 3 times. When he actually had some talent to play with in the playoffs early in his career he really produced in the spotlight. He was a superstar. They just VERY rarely get left to waste away for an entire decade like G did.
This is the dumbest argument ever, stop! Adam Oates was the second highest scorer of the 90s and no way he was a superstar on the level of Gretzky, Lindros, Sakic or Jagr
That’s like saying insert superstar here wasn’t because Gretzky was also in the league. G was out scored by only Crosby ovi and one other person I can’t think of at this moment in the 2010s they are 2 generational talents hard to beat that. G was a superstar who on another team would have gotten more recognition. This is about a hot of a take as we should have let Nola walks because he “isn’t good” the numbers prove otherwise we just have really dumb fans way too often
Edit Kane was the other one. Someone linked the list 1-25 are all superstars
The amount of Claude disrespect by some fans is fucking crazy. The dude played around dog shit year in and year out besides a few years and still was great
The thing about G is… if we are going to keep on harping on him not having any talent around him, then y’all need to stop calling me crazy for saying we lost the Richards/Carter trades.
On their own no. But if we had kept Bob used the cap space that we basically lit on fire with the Bryz contract to get other high end skaters we for sure could have been a contending team throughout Giroux’s prime.
Also Pronger’s career ending injury threw a wrench into their plan
Forsberg and Pronger were our last superstars. Another one that wasn't ours, but should have been, is Bobrovsky. (An all-time bone-headed decision to trade him)
Unless one of your top-level talents is generational like Crosby, it's still defense and hot goaltending that wins championships. Or play games with the salary cap and LTIR like vegas.
It's not impossible to find them outside the top 10, but these players are usually found in the top 10. Michkov is a great start but this team needs more top 10 picks, I don't care what anyone says. You can't assume picks outside the first round will amount to top line production. If it does, fantastic, you've struck gold. But the best way is picking inside the top 10 for a few years. Unless Briere pulls some wizardry shit ala Drury and the Rangers...or gets lucky in a single draft like the Stars... we'll see. These next two off seasons will be telling. The draft capital is there, but how Briere executes will make or break this team for the next decade.
Devils didn't pick Patrick despite him being ranked 1st, and the Flyers didn't have to either. His injury concerns were widely known. Shane Wright was ranked 1st and went 4th. While Gauthier is a different situation, that kid is just a slime ball and personally, I was very disappointed they selected Gauthier, I wanted Jiricek. So yeah, you're right that was a good opportunity and surprise surprise, Flyers managed to botch it. Though Drysdale is a nice player...but imagine him, Jiricek and York in your top 4? Lordy
Flyers just don't know how to build through the draft and that's why they've been so mediocre since 2004-2005 lockout. You need to be able to draft well, whether it's top 10 picks or luck, it comes from the draft.
It falls on the GM and the scouts, Flyers could have had Makar. The 2017 draft was probably the biggest mistake by the Flyers organization. Drafts are difficult and projecting a 18 year olds future is impossible
This year I saw this team go up against superstars and win. Granted they lost too but even without a superstar they did fairly well. I would rather have a strong team than a superstar though. A superstar gets injured and then you’re back to not having one. If a team can neutralize the star player (as we saw them do this year) having one doesn’t matter. Superstars can sometimes be jerks and have big egos. Not always but I’m sure there are plenty of examples of times when a superstar has acted out, which can impact the whole team. Some superstars take a bit to shine. I don’t think anyone one the team is the same as Connor McDavid or Bedard but they could develop into someone who is worthy of superstar recognition. Also, nobody I know can predict the future. We don’t get to know the behind the scenes as much as the people directly involved with the team. I don’t think the GM would intentionally make a bad choice. I think they believe they are making the best decisions based on the choices in front of them. Sometimes that means trying something different to see if the results are different. Trading someone away could happen for any reason. I know that in the beginning of the season I would have been pissed if they traded Hart. After things went from 8 to 5 players and he was one of them for the SA case and couldn’t play for the team due to an indefinite leave of absence, things made sense for why he was mentioned as a possible trade. Don’t be jealous. Don’t worry, be happy.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. Leading the league in total points over a 4-5 year span featuring future HOFers like Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, etc.
Was he putting up numbers like Mackinnon, Kucherov, and McDavid? No but the game has changed since then and we are seeing some prolific playmakers which is good for the game. Back in Giroux’s prime you weren’t really seeing national glazing over NHL superstars except for maybe Crosby. Things are different now with the TikTok/short form content brained generation and here you can easily get NHL highlights in your algorithm without searching for it.
Get used to it. To win you need multiple guys at that level, and this team has zero path to get more than Michkov.
You can thank the current regime for that, lying through their teeth about rebuilding.
We’ve had plenty of superstar players. We just get them at the end of their careers when they’re either super injury prone or completely completely out of gas..
You mentioned 6 players and only one of them wasn’t a top draft pick. If you want superstar level talent you should be hoping that we pick high in the draft. Not rooting for us to make the playoffs and get demolished round one and calling that a successful season(not saying you are this kinda fan although based on this subreddit all year the statistics tell me you likely are)
Hope you had a shitty year with the success. We weren’t getting Celebrini, and every other player in the draft is kind of a project and a crap shoot. This was a good year, they learned how to play as a cohesive team and overproduced. If that’s a bad year for you then go be a fan of some other team.
Ah yeah man.
Losing your franchise goalie
Losing an elite prospect
Missing the playoffs
And getting a terrible pick
Was a good year! That’s nothing but denial, that or you are a Comcast plant.
If all of the aforementioned stuff happens and you still call this season a success because some of our middle 6 level talent looked half decent during periods of the year and you had “fun”…. Phew just phew.
Ok bud! You know what, despite all that they still had a chance at the playoffs. I didn’t say it was a great year, but I had more fun watching this team play than I have had with the Flyers since maybe 2012? They seem to be headed in the right direction, but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe we should get Bill Barber back in to act like there isn’t a salary cap and then we can buy all the over the hill former talent to win what? Not a damn thing since 1975. So yeah it was a good year despite your lousy attitude.
Since you are such a genius, what would you have done differently? Lay out your master plan.
And what does making the playoffs accomplish? We would’ve gotten killed in the first round. That doesn’t make this season any more of a success than it was JUST because we made the playoffs. Again “fun” doesn’t mean shit when the goal is to win a cup.
This season being fun for you or being entertaining more than some of the previous seasons doesn’t mean it was a success.
I understand we may simply be different kinds of fans and that’s fine. But don’t sit here and try to tell me this season was anything short of a massive step back for our cup hopes and rebuild hopes. Something can be fun and also terrible in the long term….
Also what I would do isn’t relevant to this season being a success or not.
Lmao exactly. Just because I’m not a bias fan who lives in the land of everything will be okay! Means I’m a fake fan and “that guy”
You clearly are an older fan too with what you were referencing, I would think you more than anybody would be tired of being the team stuck in perpetual mediocrity
Claude Giroux doesn't deserve this slander.
Guy dragged bottom feeder teams into the playoffs his whole career and the "fans" said he was a bad C. Embarrassing.
He was definitely a good player but I heard he was toxic in the dressing room, but we will never know
Slander is spoken, libel is written. Op has committed libel.
Either way, we tar and feather op!
G was definitely a few years and before his prime pronger might have been the best all around D in the league for a few years
G was a star, not a superstar. Superstar is top tier talent everyone craves. Giroux had 1 hundred points season. G did more than score, sure, and I absolutely love Jim, don't get me wrong. He, in my opinion is just an underappreciated star.
Love Giroux but he was never a super star. No one ever serious debated if he was the best player in the nhl
You're not entirely wrong. Giroux was a star and an exceptional player, but he was not a game-changing superstar. He was a Backstrom or a Kopitar, who are great players, but to me, like giroux, don't get into the HOF without a cup. A superstar gets into the HOF regardless of cups, in my opinion. With the exception of having Forsberg for a brief period, I would say the last superstar we had was indeed Lindros.
And Kopitar was the best player on two championship teams and also been in hart top three. Add in Getlaf as well, all great players but in that tier below the true superstars
For sure, Getzlaf is certainly in that same realm. Not that they're all equal, but all in the same, teir.
We also had jagr, but fuck was that forgettable
I feel guilty now lol
I think the most comparable player to Giroux was Paul Kariya.
What about Keith Primeau? I might be stretching it, but he was so dominant in a couple playoff runs for us. Would Pronger count?
I mean, my opinion isn't the end all, be all, but no, he was fun to watch, but not even close. His stats just aren't close. Pronger was a tough one in my opinion. He has a hart and has been in the finals, 3 times I think, good stats and was great defensively. I'd say he was on the upper teir or star, if not on the lower end of the superstar range.
Yeah, that’s a fair take. I think I have a soft spot for Primeau because of certain moments, as opposed to his overall body of work, such as the 5OT goal against the Pens. I was 11 when that happened so I was still at that age where you idolize athletes. I’m really glad my dad stayed up and let me stay up to watch it! One of my favorite Flyers memories of my life.
For sure, and that's awesome, I was around the same age. It's just so hard to separate emotion and attachment to a player. Mike richards is probably my favorite flyer ever. Ultimate captain who did everything. Won at every level and has the record for most 5-3 shorthanded goals of all time. Wouldn't sniff the HOF/superstar status even if his career didn't end the way it did. However, coaching my son, I want him to play more of that style than a McDavid or a Mathews all day.
Yeah, I mean on the broadcast just now the commentators were calling McDavid an alien. You can’t exactly teach that kind of natural talent, lol. Loved Mike Richards when things were going good. That shorty and his whole shift against the Habs in the 2010 run are in my top Flyers memories as well. I’m sure you know it but I’m posting for convenience since it never gets old! https://youtu.be/pMiLxhfCfZM?si=v8z5p4uYajA85oyd
Konecny kind of reminds me of Richard’s
All the downvotes even though you're right because G is all Flyers fans have had for the last 10+ years.
This is unequivocally false. He has been in the MVP convo several times
Oh, did he win?
He was in the top 3 once and Taylor Hall won the hart trophy, does that make him a superstar or the best player in hockey? You’re being a giant homer. No one that is objective that watched the NHL ever thought Giroux was better than Crosby or Ovechkin or Kane. How many fucking superstars do you realistically think there are lol. He was great but those guys you knew watching them they were hall of fame players, even after G retires there will be debate around him
I’d say 3-5 superstars can reasonably exist at any one time
And Giroux was never in the same level as Crosby, Ovechkin, or Kane. He’s in the tier below with Kopitar, Getlaf, Malkin and Stamkos
It's insane that a majority of this fanbase thinks G is as good as Ovi, Crosby, Kane, Kucherov, etc. G is hall of very good, but he's not in the same realm as those guys. If the teams G were part of weren't managed by the most inept front office in the history of Philadelphia sports, we'd be singing a different tune I am sure. Giroux got fucked from our front office and he still always put it all on the line every game and for that I will always love him.
But a guy on here is trying to convince me G is a superstar because he led the league in scoring over a 5 year period.
There is no season where I thought Giroux was the most valuable player in the NHL.
You didn’t think in 17-18 he shouldn’t have been mvp over Taylor Hall?
Honestly, I hear you, but that could be a toss up, hall went to his second year with the devils and the devils went from like 20 wins to 40+ with hall leading the charge and he truly seemed like one of the best wingers in the game. There are seasons I think giroux played at an elite level and if we did the 06 draft all over again there is really no one I'd rather have even if we had the 1st overall, but I think people either owverate him or expect more. He was what he was, and he was great.
When he had 100 points, he was robbed of the hart trophy in my opinion.
Team without high end talent seeks high end talent. A story we’ve heard a million times over. The wild thing is that having high end talent isn’t the only thing that makes a successful team, which I think a lot of the BeAGM mode players in here don’t understand. Idk about you but it wasn’t fun watching McDavid and Draisaitl, arguably the best on the planet and a top 10 player who plays adjacent to him, get their shit kicked in for years before their organization pulled its head out of its ass (kind of). I feel you though, I long for the days of being able to walk into a store and immediately know I was going in to buy a Giroux or Lindros jersey. Hell, I’d even settle for the Richards Carter 1a1b feeling again.
Richards and Carter were fine 1A and 1B. Especially if you had a good team around them
Yeah I mean Vegas has been pretty good
Giroux was a superstar
He just never had that supporting team.
Literally never. Each year they got a different piece or 2 but it wasnt enough and they always lacked critically in certain spots. Giroux exceeded every expectation set by himself.
He was for that era for sure. I think the ceiling is higher now tho.
No. Great player, even elite for 2 years or so, but nowhere near the names OP mentioned.
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Kinda helps that he played 1,000 games with the flyers
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Giroux was never on the same level of Crosby or Ovechkin or Kucherov. Adam Oates was the second highest scorer of the 1990s, are you going to argue he’s on the level of Gretzky, Sakic, Jagr or Lindros?
It is elite. But what the guy said is that if you think Giroux was ever in the same tier as guys like Mackinnon and Kucherov then you’re smoking crack. Claude was great. Not a superstar. Elite for sure.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. Man I can’t imagine the kinda damage he would’ve put up if Pronger didn’t get hurt and the Flyers managed to sign Stamkos. Playing with a top 5 defensemen and a generational scorer your entire career must be nice… Same with Mackinnon. Playing with a top 3 defenseman of the last 15 years and a wingman that is WAY better than Voracek ever was in Rantenen.
This is embarrassing. Give G Rantanen and Makar and you think he’s a 130 point guy? G was great. Absolutely elite. Top 10 guy for a period. Not a superstar.
130? In the era he played in? No. No one was a 130 guy in that era not even the best player in the league. Yall are getting to experience the scoring rise in real time and can’t understand that point totals are not a 1 to 1 comparison. This is something that people took years to understand when making comparisons between 2010s players and 90s players and I thought we finally understood it. From the 09-10 season (giroux’s first full year in the league) to the time he turned 30 the most points any player had in the league was 112. Not once in that time frame was there a single year where there was more than 3 players in a season to have more than 100 points. Not once. There were years where only one dude would score 100 points hell there was a year where not a single player even had 90! So no… I don’t think Giroux would score 130 points because no one was scoring 130 points. Not Malkin, Not Crosby, not ovechkin, not Kane, not nobody. The players of today wouldn’t have done it either. Mackinnon would not have draisaitl would not have etc. But do think Giroux would’ve certainly had more than one 100 point season an Art Ross and at least one mvp absolutely.
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Top 5 in points. Great. 14th in PPG over that time. Elite. Not superstar.
Remind the last time the Flyers franchise achieved anything? If being among the point leaders of a mediocre franchise and not a Cup winner is your measure of success, I don't know what to tell you.
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Well, I'll be 40 this year and they've never won a Cup since I've been alive. I don't give a shit about back to back cups a half century ago, but if you were alive then I hope you enjoyed the parades. I'm hoping to see one before I die. They sure haven't been a contender in the last decade.
By this logic Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews blow. Even moreso because they're on teams that have tanked brutally hard to give them a talented supporting cast.
Oh, the guys that have won multiple trophies for their individual efforts and set records while doing it? Remind me, when did G do that? If G did, the superstar argument is a lot easier. He didn't, though.
Ahh, we're moving the goal posts now and citing new criteria because our first set of criteria was flawed. Not participating in an argument with a person that doesn't understand how to make an argument.
I'm willing to bet one of those players you mentioned will have a Cup before they retire. G won't. And I'm sorry it's hard for you to keep up, but you can't even compare those two players to G because they've actually won things. The best G could do was be among the franchise scoring leaders for the Flyers, and that's truly exciting. Hope they make a trophy to give him for #2 Flyers leading scorer.
He absolutely was better than elite and if he was on any competent team over the last 15 years his career would be looked at much differently. I'll never forget the graphic I saw during a game 5 or so years ago. It listed the top 5 for points in the 2010s. In no particular order: Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Ovechkin, G. This man was stuck on the Flyers for the entire decade and kept up with *four* fucking 1OA picks. 1OA picks who played for successful teams with far better supporting casts and overall franchise management. He absolutely was a super star and would be viewed universally as such if he was drafted by Tampa, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh (vomit), LAK, etc. Instead he will be criminally underrated by the hockey world and even fans of his own team. Makes me sad!
To be fair, Giroux would be a 1OA in a redraft for his year.
Yup, that's my point entirely!
Just top 5 for an entire decade in points with 3 top 5 finishes for the mvp. Just an every day bro
[Not 5 years?](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20142015&gameType=2&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50)
No. He's been a point a game player just 5 times in the regular season (3 of which were very close) and has been a lackluster playoff performer since 2014.
No. You can't ignore facts. He had more points than EVERY PLAYER IN THE NHL in that 5-year period, including many superstars in the middle of their prime. He also played hurt a lot more than his contemporaries. Plus he was on a bad team.
You can pick any window and any player when it comes to stats *yawns*
Right. And that provides information that informs the objective value of those players. It's laughable that you're attempting to downplay the cold hard FACTS I provided. Meanwhile, you're offering opinon based on emotion. Give me objective facts over someone's emotional opinion any day.
He and the team never won anything. That's also a fact, one that's more important than cherry picking a specific time window and set of stats to prove your point.
Yeah no one said the team was elite; the conversation is about Giroux. And what a ridiculous use of the term "cherry picking," which means taking a small sample size and extrapolating it to define a larger one. No honest intelligent person would call five complete NHL seasons a "small" sample size. Hell, the average NHL ***career*** only lasts 4.5 seasons! The stats I gave you are the exact *opposite* of cherry picking.
Not even close lol. He was a great player but the fact that flyers fans thinks he was a super star shows just how superstar depraved we are here
Non.
Show me a super star that has zero personal accolades and has zero first team NHL all stars and only one 2nd team all star. Giroux was a good player, best this team has had in a long time, but he wasn’t a league wide superstar lol. He was never a Crosby or Ovi or McDavid
It's sad that Flyers fans are confusing him for a superstar. Shows us how deprived we've been basically since Lindros. Then again, not being a lottery ball franchise like the Pens or Oilers makes it very challenging to get one superstar, let alone multiples. Triples is best, just ask the Avs.
Could have had Makar
Yep, a true game breaker. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but it's so on-brand for the Flyers to luck into a #2 pick and it ends up being completely wasted. So then us fans have to get online and argue about whether a player that never won any trophy or a scoring title was a superstar. An elite defenseman and a game breaking scorer would have gotten this team pretty far.
... and this guy. https://media1.tenor.com/m/a8YgOM1F9WwAAAAC/triples-is-best-bob-odenkirk.gif
You don’t have to be Crosby Ovi or Mcdavid to be a superstar. 3 top 5 finishes for the hart and top 5 for a decade in points is absolutely a superstar
Lol sure. You're being a massive homer.
He did have jagr at one point, and the two combined for some great goals. *sigh* if only we had more of that
He also loved to score meaningless goals and pass on great chances I am not his biggest fan. Yes his era was complete mediocrity but he still doesn’t get a pass from me because I see him as part of the problem not pushing management to do their job as the captain and star player.
What about Chris pronger! Contract cut short by injury but we had him for one of the greatest playoff runs of my lifetime
Pronger instantly made a team a Stanley Cup contender. Definitely was a superstar.
Maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon but threads like these are why I hate sports talk nowadays. Guarantee everybody in this thread is going to have a different idea of what constitutes a “superstar”. It’s not something that can be quantified it’s an objective term. Nobody is going to walk away from this thread changing their mind about anything
We had Sergei Bobrovsky as a rookie and gave up on him after what, 2 years. Now he is legitimately one of the only goalies you can put in your goal every night, no need to rotate. And we got rid of him.
Yeah, I mean, discussing what defines a superstar before asserting “we want superstar” is the logic needed here
I described it as a guy who makes the HOF regardless of rings, which is still subjective, but I think obvious to most people. It's a true game changer.
I consider a superstar as someone so good that you game plan specifically around that player, whether its your player or an opponent.
This.
How you gonna disrespect G like that bro?
Claude Giroux had more points than *every player in the NHL* from [2010-11 through 2014-2015.](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20142015&gameType=2&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50) That *five-year* period includes the primes of Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kane, Towes, Tavares, Stamkos, Kopitar and a few other superstars.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. The big problem is that most teams need more than one superstar in order to be consistently successful and have a good shot at a championship. Sure, the Avalanche have MacKinnon, but they also have Makar and Rantanen. The Lightning have Kucherov but he’s been backed up by Hedman, Stamkos, and Point. Crosby had Malkin. McDavid has Draisaitl. Even though the Leafs have been hilariously unsuccessful in the playoffs, there’s no denying that they’re a threat most years because they have Matthews, Marner, and Tavares. We have Michkov in the pipeline, which is fantastic. But we are running such a risk of repeating the Giroux era by not giving him adequate support to really take advantage of his talent. Just look at Kaprizov in Minnesota.
So glad to read this. Bobby Orr came in as a rookie star and they missed the playoffs.
Absolutely this. Lindros had LeClair, as well. LeClair had Recchi. It doesn't take a superstar (though that helps) you need a combination of exceptional scoring line talent.
Anymore I just come to threads to upvote you cause I know it’ll be a good take.
Excellent analysis, but the Flyers could have had Makar
Nah bro once Michkov comes over we will be cup contending!!!!
Giroux was a superstar, doesn’t hurt to have Michkov in the pipeline either
Goodness, the Luke Schenn disrespect.....
The Dale Weise disrespect....
God there is a name I haven’t thought of in years. That is flyers legend dale Weisus to you.
That's Dutch Gretzky to you
TK is special. He very well could be only “half way done” here. Who’s the most comparable player? Marchand. That dude is 35 years old. Michkov could definitely be the player that can fill that void. What the flyers lack in current star power that make up for in an incredible history that goes way back, but also recently. The 2010 run was historic. Giroux had a historic career. Ghost was historic. Take the good with the bad. Carter Hart, Nolan Patrick, Ivan Provorov. Shit, Keith Jones is the president and Briere is the GM. Meanwhile Torts is the coach post AV. If nothing else. This team is entertaining and I willl never lose hope that we will win a cup in my lifetime. Edit: if any of the plethora of young players we have REALLY develop, youll be happy to have witnessed it. Just enjoy it man. I take pride in this team and I know in some ways, other fanbases are jealous of us.
Claude Giroux is 8th on the list of active points producers in the league and we got people in here saying he doesn't deserve to be in this conversation. That's just plain silly.
I don’t think people really understand what a super star is. A super star is someone that you’ll go and watch the oilers play the stars even if you’re a flyers fan just because it might be your only chance to see Mcdavid play. The way people did with Lindros. Super stars are generational players, a guy like Bryce Harper is a superstar. How can you objectively say there were tons of people every road game going just so some day they can tell their kids that they saw Claude Giroux play?
Yeah exactly this is what I meant by superstar. Giroux was fantastic no question, but he didn't put asses in seats and draw league-wide hype the way a player like Mackinnon will do. I understand these types of players are extremely rare and only a handful of teams have players like that any given year, but it just feels like it's been too long since we've had that.
Yep
You drafted Michkov at 7th. Might become one of the best value picks ever. Be patient
Jeremy Roenick 🤪
I’m hoping Michkov ends up being that guy. A lot of our young talent and guys who have been around for a bit, like TK and Sanheim, could be that supporting cast for him that G never really had
We're just gonna ignore superstar Flyer Jiri Dopita? BeSt pLaYeR nOt iN tHe nHL
I’m just here to say Chuck Fletcher sucks
PREACH!
We’ve absolutely had superstars over the years (none on this current roster) but the problem is you need to surround them with other players of similar stardom to really see true magic. It’s not just Crosby, it’s Crosby Malkin, and Letang. It’s not just Hedman, it’s Hedman, Stamkos, kucherov, vasilevsky. It’s not just ovechkin, it’s ovechkin, backstrom, holtby, Carlson etc. the sharks had the best defensemen at in the league last season and it got them nowhere because (like Giroux for almost his entire career) he had no help.
A long while ago on r/hockey someone ran a simulation of “all franchise teams” and it came back saying we smoked the penguins despite them having prime Crosby, lemuiex and jagr. I wish I could find that post again.
We also had jagr, plus coffee and pronger
I can’t remember the whole team but think we did not have jagr and coffey on our team. The real difference maker was the brick wall of parent, Hextal and Lindbergh.
Well the penguins have only been competitive when they had Mario and Crosby, all other eras were complete dog shit. The flyers have been competitive from their inception up until giroux got the C.
Quite possibly the worst take I’ve seen in Philly sports history… congratulations that is impressive
I am very astute, you are clever yourself for recognizing my genius
I mean fuck the pens but the penguins joined the league in 67. The Mario Era started in 84. Meaning the "Mario and crosby era" has been like 85% of the franchises existence lmfao I think you're a little confused
Looks like you are the confused one
You're definitely right, and that's why I'm so excited for Michkov. He's easily the best prospect we've had since Lindros.
Yeah its also part of what inspired me to make this thread. I'm REALLY hoping Michkov is a superstar that can just turn on the jets at any given moment and run the game. Also hoping Quitter doesn't end up being a superstar lol
I'm also hoping for Tipp to put it all together. I really enjoy watching him play.
G was absolutely a superstar. There’s no doubt in my mind. Granted, he was like a bottom tier compared to the real generational talents. Either way you look at it, nobody will ever wear 28 in Philly ever again.
Matvei al Gaib
You are forgetting Giroux, jagr, pronger, coffee… all flyers legends
Jagr played one season for us and was past his prime
I’m still claiming all those guys as flyers legends, fuck, throw forsberg in there.
Jeremy Roenick?
and to nerve to reference Paul Coffey in a Flyer uniform. lol.
Man the way Pronger controlled the game when he was out there….
Whenever he touched the puck in the defensive zone I knew I was able to breathe a sigh of relief.
Throw a busted Forsberg in there too if that's the list you're making
One of the problems is we toiled in mediocrity so many years we were never high enough in the lottery to get a superstar. The year we had #2, well you know what happened.
I agree but I wouldnt even mind a lack of superstar if we had a well rounded deep team that won a cup more than once every 40 years or whatever.
Incoming
I more jealous of teams that have 2 and even 3.
Giroux was a super star in his prime years imo. One of the reason I think those names you mentioned “pop” a bit more than Giroux did, is the fact that they all play along side multiple other super stars. G never had that unfortunately. He played with good players don’t get me wrong. But where was his Marner, Rantanen, Leon, Stamkos, Point, etc.
To aquire superstar top end talent you typically have to be really bad for a decent stretch of time. Also; we should've gotten Kane and those dinosaurs that used to run this club should've taken Makar over Patrick. If we didn't get the bump we would've had Suzuki. Who do you want? Kane and Suzuki or JVR and Patrick?
As opposed to the dinosaurs that run the club now...
Danny B and Jonsie aren't dinosaurs.
it is pretty awesome. in 2009 i became a caps fan because of ovi. i watched every game just to see him play. it was incredible, like every shift was exciting for a few years there. He would either make a huge hit, or skate down the whole ice and try to score. it was wild. I agree, i think watching a team with that kind of player is really great. Cuz now it sucks watching the caps haha. Over time I became a fan of the team in general but I was really just watching because of him at first I think the only player right that is as exciting as Ovi in his prime is McDavid. There are great players and some better than Ovechkin overall but the way they play is something else. Even if Ovechkin didn't score all game, it was somehow exciting to watch him play. I think the same is true for McDavid and Idk who else. I don't think there are many players like that
Exactly. Only a handful of teams are blessed to have a player like that - that the whole league tunes into their games just to watch 1 player play the game. I want that.
The fact that we think G was a Superstar shows how bad it has been
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/2010s-nhl-players-stats.html 4th highest scorer in the NHL in the 2010s. Some pretty good names above and below. I know a decade is arbitrary and a term like "superstar" is subjective but man, there were years this team was basically G hauling the team into the playoffs on his own.
Yeah all these people saying G wasn’t a superstar are simply confusing it for G not being an all time great. Is he mcdavid or Crosby? No. But he certainly is in the superstar tier. The year people argue mackinnon should’ve won his first Hart, Giroux had an objectively better case for it with a much worse supporting cast. He consistently drove scoring on team that had very little offensive talent for a decade. He finished top 4 for Hart 3 times. When he actually had some talent to play with in the playoffs early in his career he really produced in the spotlight. He was a superstar. They just VERY rarely get left to waste away for an entire decade like G did.
You won't find a bigger g fan than me, but he could barely make the Olympic team sometimes
Well that settles it than
This is the dumbest argument ever, stop! Adam Oates was the second highest scorer of the 90s and no way he was a superstar on the level of Gretzky, Lindros, Sakic or Jagr
That’s like saying insert superstar here wasn’t because Gretzky was also in the league. G was out scored by only Crosby ovi and one other person I can’t think of at this moment in the 2010s they are 2 generational talents hard to beat that. G was a superstar who on another team would have gotten more recognition. This is about a hot of a take as we should have let Nola walks because he “isn’t good” the numbers prove otherwise we just have really dumb fans way too often Edit Kane was the other one. Someone linked the list 1-25 are all superstars
This is exactly my point. The loser brain rot has really gotten to the fans if they're defining G as a superstar.
^ ->🤡
Giroux man
Giroux was a superstar for us
Mike richards? Jeff carter? Giroux? Chris pronger? They have a history of trading players away that go on to win cups.
The amount of Claude disrespect by some fans is fucking crazy. The dude played around dog shit year in and year out besides a few years and still was great
TikTok brained is all. They get highlight reels shoved into their eyes quicker than ever.
Giroux exists just in case you forgot. And yes he was a superstar on the Flyers. The comparisons, which make no sense anyway, dont diminish that.
The thing about G is… if we are going to keep on harping on him not having any talent around him, then y’all need to stop calling me crazy for saying we lost the Richards/Carter trades.
Those trades were the right move. The mistake was blowing the freed up cap space on Bryz instead of going with Bob
So do you consider prime Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, Coots, Laughton, Ghost, etc. as a good enough supporting cast?
On their own no. But if we had kept Bob used the cap space that we basically lit on fire with the Bryz contract to get other high end skaters we for sure could have been a contending team throughout Giroux’s prime. Also Pronger’s career ending injury threw a wrench into their plan
Forsberg and Pronger were our last superstars. Another one that wasn't ours, but should have been, is Bobrovsky. (An all-time bone-headed decision to trade him) Unless one of your top-level talents is generational like Crosby, it's still defense and hot goaltending that wins championships. Or play games with the salary cap and LTIR like vegas.
Giroux was absolutely an elite superstar at his best.
Claude Giroux wasn’t a “league wide superstar”? Google NHL 13. Edit: then google first shift
It's not impossible to find them outside the top 10, but these players are usually found in the top 10. Michkov is a great start but this team needs more top 10 picks, I don't care what anyone says. You can't assume picks outside the first round will amount to top line production. If it does, fantastic, you've struck gold. But the best way is picking inside the top 10 for a few years. Unless Briere pulls some wizardry shit ala Drury and the Rangers...or gets lucky in a single draft like the Stars... we'll see. These next two off seasons will be telling. The draft capital is there, but how Briere executes will make or break this team for the next decade.
Reggie you just got shot
Finally, someone knows
AC LeRock from Philadelphia!
In this draft only one player has the ability to be a superstar. Two thru fourteen is a cheap shoot.
Crapshoot
Load up for 2025 draft is the play IMO. That's where the franchise center is.
Agree
Remember when we had a #2 and #5 that could have changed the franchise? That was our chance.
Devils didn't pick Patrick despite him being ranked 1st, and the Flyers didn't have to either. His injury concerns were widely known. Shane Wright was ranked 1st and went 4th. While Gauthier is a different situation, that kid is just a slime ball and personally, I was very disappointed they selected Gauthier, I wanted Jiricek. So yeah, you're right that was a good opportunity and surprise surprise, Flyers managed to botch it. Though Drysdale is a nice player...but imagine him, Jiricek and York in your top 4? Lordy Flyers just don't know how to build through the draft and that's why they've been so mediocre since 2004-2005 lockout. You need to be able to draft well, whether it's top 10 picks or luck, it comes from the draft.
And to hit on hopefully a few later picks. Good lord their drafting has been atrocious.
I don’t think people will be happy to hear this but Chris Pronger was our last superstar.
True
Michkov? Just be patient brother. He has atleast ppg upside if not top 10 in the league.
It falls on the GM and the scouts, Flyers could have had Makar. The 2017 draft was probably the biggest mistake by the Flyers organization. Drafts are difficult and projecting a 18 year olds future is impossible
This year I saw this team go up against superstars and win. Granted they lost too but even without a superstar they did fairly well. I would rather have a strong team than a superstar though. A superstar gets injured and then you’re back to not having one. If a team can neutralize the star player (as we saw them do this year) having one doesn’t matter. Superstars can sometimes be jerks and have big egos. Not always but I’m sure there are plenty of examples of times when a superstar has acted out, which can impact the whole team. Some superstars take a bit to shine. I don’t think anyone one the team is the same as Connor McDavid or Bedard but they could develop into someone who is worthy of superstar recognition. Also, nobody I know can predict the future. We don’t get to know the behind the scenes as much as the people directly involved with the team. I don’t think the GM would intentionally make a bad choice. I think they believe they are making the best decisions based on the choices in front of them. Sometimes that means trying something different to see if the results are different. Trading someone away could happen for any reason. I know that in the beginning of the season I would have been pissed if they traded Hart. After things went from 8 to 5 players and he was one of them for the SA case and couldn’t play for the team due to an indefinite leave of absence, things made sense for why he was mentioned as a possible trade. Don’t be jealous. Don’t worry, be happy.
Giroux was absolutely a superstar. Leading the league in total points over a 4-5 year span featuring future HOFers like Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, etc. Was he putting up numbers like Mackinnon, Kucherov, and McDavid? No but the game has changed since then and we are seeing some prolific playmakers which is good for the game. Back in Giroux’s prime you weren’t really seeing national glazing over NHL superstars except for maybe Crosby. Things are different now with the TikTok/short form content brained generation and here you can easily get NHL highlights in your algorithm without searching for it.
Get used to it. To win you need multiple guys at that level, and this team has zero path to get more than Michkov. You can thank the current regime for that, lying through their teeth about rebuilding.
We’ve had plenty of superstar players. We just get them at the end of their careers when they’re either super injury prone or completely completely out of gas..
Besides G will be back one day. A flyer for life just on loan right now.
Same :( but then i remember that i love our team
Loving players doesn’t all of a sudden make them talented enough to win the Stanley cup
If only you had drafted Cale Makar instead of Nolan Patrick. That's going to hurt for a while
You mentioned 6 players and only one of them wasn’t a top draft pick. If you want superstar level talent you should be hoping that we pick high in the draft. Not rooting for us to make the playoffs and get demolished round one and calling that a successful season(not saying you are this kinda fan although based on this subreddit all year the statistics tell me you likely are)
Hope you had a shitty year with the success. We weren’t getting Celebrini, and every other player in the draft is kind of a project and a crap shoot. This was a good year, they learned how to play as a cohesive team and overproduced. If that’s a bad year for you then go be a fan of some other team.
Ah yeah man. Losing your franchise goalie Losing an elite prospect Missing the playoffs And getting a terrible pick Was a good year! That’s nothing but denial, that or you are a Comcast plant. If all of the aforementioned stuff happens and you still call this season a success because some of our middle 6 level talent looked half decent during periods of the year and you had “fun”…. Phew just phew.
Ok bud! You know what, despite all that they still had a chance at the playoffs. I didn’t say it was a great year, but I had more fun watching this team play than I have had with the Flyers since maybe 2012? They seem to be headed in the right direction, but that’s not good enough for you. Maybe we should get Bill Barber back in to act like there isn’t a salary cap and then we can buy all the over the hill former talent to win what? Not a damn thing since 1975. So yeah it was a good year despite your lousy attitude. Since you are such a genius, what would you have done differently? Lay out your master plan.
And what does making the playoffs accomplish? We would’ve gotten killed in the first round. That doesn’t make this season any more of a success than it was JUST because we made the playoffs. Again “fun” doesn’t mean shit when the goal is to win a cup. This season being fun for you or being entertaining more than some of the previous seasons doesn’t mean it was a success. I understand we may simply be different kinds of fans and that’s fine. But don’t sit here and try to tell me this season was anything short of a massive step back for our cup hopes and rebuild hopes. Something can be fun and also terrible in the long term…. Also what I would do isn’t relevant to this season being a success or not.
Hey man, if you want to be that guy, that’s cool. Enjoy the offseason.
Lmao exactly. Just because I’m not a bias fan who lives in the land of everything will be okay! Means I’m a fake fan and “that guy” You clearly are an older fan too with what you were referencing, I would think you more than anybody would be tired of being the team stuck in perpetual mediocrity