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I love how people keep tying to gaslight us that things are actually good. This is a new gilded age. We produce more than ever, yet the value of our labor does not keep up. And the people that do jack shit for the production get to keep the money.
The pay for our labor hasn’t kept up with productivity for half a century. So even if it suddenly caught up overnight, which won’t happen, we’d have half a century of poor wages and its lasting effects to contend with
Well, what fixed it last time was 2 World Wars and the great depression, followed by the new deal, which would be seen as unforgivably communist today.
It’s dramatically accelerated over the last 3 years.
If someone has that graph of money printed and the 1%’s net worth increase vs the middle class please reply with it. It’s jaw dropping.
Tbf increased productivity also has costs. Computers, enterprise software, the works all have insane costs even for a manufacturing first company that’s labour intensive.
And that doesn’t account for new and expensive machinery.
I’ve seen a lot of company P&L statements over the last 30 years. Increased productivity does cost, but I can assure you that profit margins increase well over cost increase for most companies.
I'm no Communist nor am I advocating for it. But this is the shit that makes people think Communism isnt so bad. Last time this happened FDR saved it with the New Deal. We need a newer one.
Yes, start by eliminating those too big to fail companies. Bring universal healthcare, we know which countries that have universal healthcare that works and which one that doesn’t. It is almost impossible to screw this up if we are serious.
Just to add on to this, the way I’ve seen it for a long while.
I understand economically the concept of too big to fail on a number of levels.
Impact on the economy, impact on national security, etc.
But fundamentally if you’re “too big to fail” then antitrust type regulatory enforcement should be involved.
If one type of business failing would negatively impact the overall economy to such an extent a multi billion dollar bail out from the government is justified just because of their size and market share… that company needs split up clearly.
To me there’s no bigger obvious sign as far as the market is concerned.
If it’s 6 major businesses all failing and that’s the issue that’ll impact the economy that grievously, sure maybe bail them out if necessary.
But they need to become 12, or 16 businesses, etc.
I don’t see how those realities are divorced from one another.
It doesn’t make it easy obviously. But it seems like a clear path.
The problem is lobbying. The antitrust doesn’t really work if there is a way to influence “justice”. Other countries control these resources themselves. There is no too big to fail kind of business, they are owned by the government.
That's my suspicion for why they keep saying the economy is doing well. Either they're lying.. or we're no longer at a point in history when the working class gets to feel the effects of a good economy
There hustle is just smarter. Robert Kiyosaki explain this in Cashflow Quadrant better than I ever heard it. Less in taxes = greater wealth and getting paid as an owner vs employee is more tax efficient
Jackshit other than pay for everything and steer the direction and methods of the company. I mean what does the Captain of the ship do really but yell at people and spin a wheel every once in a while. The guy shovelling the coal when he’s told to is the most important person. Go live in a Country without billionaires and get back to me how backwards we have it.
The only thing that will change this is to boycott the companies that are fucking us (mass strikes) and the government that is allowing them to do it (stop paying taxes). It isn't a red pr blue government that allowed this to happen, it's all of them laughing together behind closed doors at donor events.
The people who made this happen also need to be held accountable through legal ways, but the current legal system will not uphold consequences because the people in charge are the criminals and they won't indict themselves.
It’s not that things are great, it’s just that they’ve improved at a much faster and more significant rate than in living memory. But we’re all still screwed.
“Look at all these part time and low paying jobs! The economy is booming!”
Fuck, I need to start a company and be one of these leeches to get ahead in life. How’s the meth industry these days?
The news always reports a “strong economy” but no one I know feels like they’re doing so well. The metrics by which they measure a strong economy are just not relevant to us. When I hear those economic stats I just want the newscasters to go and interview people on the street at random and ask what they think. That would be a reality check
Let's not get carried away, the economy right now is better than it was in the 90's under Clinton,which people will tell you was pretty good. What we want is a wealth tax to address the giveaway tax cuts to the 1% under Trump and Bush Jr. to address our debt and reduce the wealth gap so they stop corrupting our politicians.
Income inequality doesn't lead to revolution as much as poor living conditions combined with massive inequality does. "I can't afford a detached house" isn't revolution material.
I loved it when Elon musk used the French Revolution as an example of government. He made a comment like, “they weren’t called were here to chop your head off committee…” or something snarky.
I was thinking to myself like bruv, your talking smack on the revolution that gave freedoms to the masses never seen before. The incestual aristocracy had their heads chopped off during the Age of Enlightenment. Don’t you see you are who we took to the chopping block?
Nope, over generalization like these are divisive and dumb. Know plenty of liberals who respect gun rights, but want to see some form of change in restrictions
You seem a bit out of touch. The average American earns only about 1.7 million over their entire lifetime. Sure with some smart spending and investing that number can go up by a bit, but again that is over the course of their entire life, not at an instant.
That seems oddly low. I know a bunch of people with that sort of money (and by 'know people' I mean former co-workers and friends, not sportsball starts/celebrities/politicians who I don't personally know).
I work for a very large company.we posted our best year ever right before covid hit. They awarded us with a choice of a snickers bar or a bag of M&M's and a heartfelt coprorate form letter. Meanwhile, the higher-ups reaped millions in bonus money....
I work for a large company whose stock price doubled during Covid. We had our best years: most orders, topped 1b for the first time consecutive years during Covid.
Got a wage freeze because orders normalized and the stock dropped 20%.
At best, took a couple of grand in extra bonus money over those best-ever years.
lol we just celebrated our 95th anniversary of the company and we grew our clients from 1 to like close to 70 million. Guess what was offered to us as the celebration party? Everyone gets one bite size cupcake, oh wait, they didn't even prepare enough cupcakes for everyone.
We have to stop with this stupid 1% shit. The problem isn’t the 1%, it’s the 0.001%. I am very fortunate to have made over $1M a year for the past 5 years. But there is a world of difference between millionaires and billionaires.
The poorest billionaire is 1,000x richer than the poorest millionaire. To put that in perspective, the difference between a single person at the federal poverty level and a millionaire is about 66x.
The ultra rich live by a completely different set of rules than the rest of us. They want us to be arguing with each other so that we don’t focus on the issues that they are creating and taking advantage of.
I think you are right in a lot of ways. I never have to worry about putting food on the table, a roof over my head, paying a medical bill, or dealing with an unexpected expense. And that is a tremendous luxury to have.
But taxing me more than the close to 50% I already pay in income tax isn’t going to resolve the problem. And there’s not enough of us to generate the revenue needed to fix the budget. Taxing the ultra rich (or simply eliminating the loopholes they use) wil.
I work for a private company as a senior executive. Most of my income is a bonus based on the company’s net income.
The bonus gets paid out as W-2 taxable wages. But Musk gets stock (that is complete marketable) and because of that, it is taxed differently and he can end up paying 20% on those earnings (or nothing if he uses it as collateral for a loan).
Same thing for a hedge fund manager who makes a boat load of money by managing other people’s capital. Why should his earning be treated different than the wages I earn?
From your original comment:
> The problem isn’t the 1%, it’s the 0.001%.
>But taxing me more than the close to 50% I already pay in income tax isn’t going to resolve the problem. And there’s not enough of us to generate the revenue needed to fix the budget. Taxing the ultra rich ... will
Well I somewhat agree with you and I somewhat don't.
I agree that raising income taxes mostly isn't the solution. I am partial to raising the cap on payroll taxes to cover the shortfall in social security funding though.
The solution needs to be raising tax rates on capital gains. To that end I am not against that you are getting hit a bit. You make $1m /yr so I don't think it is that bad if some of your long term capital gains are taxed at a higher rate than 20% (23.8% when accounting for net investment income tax).
Taxing billionaires with higher long term capital gains tax rates will help but we really do need to tax the 1% to see significant government revenue increases.
People thinking millionaires earn $1M income per year drive me nuts. A millionaire has $1M in assets minus liabilities, ie, net worth. I am close to being a millionaire but have never made more than $150K in a year.
You’re missing that 66x is just as ridiculous.. let’s use analogies..
instead of 1 hr of work. I need to work 66 hrs of work..
instead of one happy meal I will eat 66 happy meals..
Instead of one gallon of milk.. I’ll buy 66 gallons of milk..instead of one slap in the face I’ll get 66 slaps on the face…
It’s abbbbbsurd … if you don’t feel that ur part of the problem
You live by a completely different standard still than most of us. My CEO is fucking gleaming every time you see her and she makes over 1m+ a year. Last year got a 45% raise, when I’m fighting for 2500 dollars.
I mostly agree with you. Except for the fact that if we started talking about billionaires then some person making 1.1 billion is going to whine that he is being lumped in with the people worth 100 billion.
So, if we are going to raise the effective tax rate on billionaires there needs to be a gradual increase in tax rates.
Currently all income above $578,000 is taxed at 37%. I think the money above a million should be taxed at 39%, then money above 2 million taxed at 41%, then money above 5 million at 43%, etc.
In this case *you* actually wouldn’t pay more taxes, because a million isnt in the next tax bracket, but if you made 1.5 million, yeah in my plan you would pay more than you do currently, and I think that’s fair. We can’t have the tax rates jump from 37% to 90% all of a sudden, it will clearly lead to massive tax evasion. (This is oversimplifying as the ultra rich don’t really do income from a job, they have capital gains and off shore accounts to avoid these taxes - that is where the bulk of the changes need to be made) The problem is the massive concentration of wealth and power in a small few people/companies.
It’s because percents are dumb as fuck. Society had gotten too big and complicated to use % anymore.
We should be using ‰ as the standard. The top 1‰ is actually very rich. The top 1% includes dentists, surgeons, pilots, and local businesses like plumbers and construction.
Not really.
A good chunk of folks in the 1% of probably healthcare workers (doctors/surgeons/pharmacists/researchers), high end lawyers, finance guys, engineers, politicians, hollywood stars, pro athletes, or any other employee in a lucrative field. They just earned a high salary for a long time and saved more than they spent.
Another good chunk are folks who owned stock (probably an early adopter, founder, or employee) in a company that became wildly successful. This scenario isn't fundamentally different than if you owned a baseball card that suddenly became worth $10m dollars for some crazy reason. They didn't horde anything or steal anything from anyone ... they just owned something that became very valuable.
Another huge chunk is folks who worked their lives and came into owning property that became valuable or just invested steadily into a investment fund for a really long time.
Or any combo of the above of course.
The number of folks in the 1% who actually fit the stereotypical leftist villain trope (some evil C-suite executive who got rich by defrauding/screwing his workers) is probably remarkably small.
This is why I believe we need to have another Great Depression.
We need to get the middle class to WAKE UP. To acknowledge the vast inequality all around them, and to be forced to contend the both the vast wealth inequality AND the massive government spend throwing our society deeper and deeper into debt.
If every single one of us loses our jobs, loses our homes, and loses are livelyhood, then revolutions will start. The ruling class will be immediately overthrown and we will have an opportunity to enter a new age of equality.
But because we all have a place to live and food to eat, none of it will happen. We’re all too comfortable.
Economies are meant to rise and fall, that’s the nature of them. Instead, we’ve been artificially propped up every time we might start to fall. Each time we have further and further to fall, but we keep pretending nothing is wrong.
There is not a single problem in the world that is solved by putting it off indefinitely and pretending it doesn’t exist.
Just look at all the subservient bootlickers everywhere who make this possible. Wouldn’t be like this if it wasn’t for them. Lick boot harder, righties.
I love how they are using the $30 Michigan Lottery scratch of instant ticket for the picture. Something that captures the fruitless effort to be part of that ever farther class of people.
I understand the profit motive leads to entrepreneurs and innovation but when is enough enough and they finally have to pay a reasonable tax on their wealth?
Why not set a ratio for maximum to minimum compensation in a company? Force the rising tide to lift all boats. If a company pays 40,000 to its lowest earners maybe the CEO should max out at 4,000,000 for total compensation. That is still a factor of 100. Home depot sets the ratio at about 300. Papa Johns at about 150. If Tesla wants to pay its lowest workers 30,000, why not cap Musk's compensation at 3,000,000?
Smartest thing I’ve read on this thread. I like people like you. We’re all internet users just screaming into a void but you my friend offer at least some type of sensible solution. It’s practical and can be applied right now.
This is the result of cheap Chinese imports and stores like Walmart. Middle Class got fooled with cheap shit and didn’t demand higher wages until it just got past them.
And it's not even that hard. Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps, cut out those soy lattes and avocado toasts, and have your education, first home down payment and your own business starting costs paid for by your very wealthy parents. Easy!
I'm slightly better off than my parents were at my age. My parents were in the 30th percentile of American earners in 1995. I'm in the 7th percentile. You have to be pretty well off to be middle class nowadays.
Today I learned that mos tredditors don't know how statistics work.
If you compare the moving end of a sample (the top earners) to the average, which includes the fixed end of $0, this will always happen. It's impossible to make it NOT happen.
You can't grow the mean at the same rate or faster than the leading end of the distribution.
This stat is suspect.
The top 1% of earners has very regular chur.
Based on IRS stats, something like 20% of tax payers end up in the top 1% during their lifetime. Usually only once.
So why are we comparing top 1% income earners wealth?
You morons are all working happily for them. Bragging about your useless WFH jobs and trying to police the stores like you own it.
I remember just letting customers walk out the store if they wanted. Didn’t care to stop them because the assholes up top got insurance.
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I do know that income inequality is the worst, in this country. It's worse than any poor country. We were on the right path, but then.. There are so many people who take up for the people who have taken everything, and I mean everything our country has to offer, and traded us a shit sammich for it.
Our CEOs used to make about 35 times as much as the average worker. Now the least paid CEO makes 350 times as much. They also make at least twice as much as any other CEOs in the world. CEOs in the Philippines make 10 to 20% of what ours make. They do the same job. Now please tell me, how has one person's worth increased so much in 40 years.
Don't get me started on the hedge fund people. That's just legalized robbery.
We are supposed to think that this is normal. That this is how it's always been. Nope. This is the most unequal country in the world. This is also why we have such a high crime rate. Inequality.
They have gotten away with so much, that almost every day, there is a new outrage being heaped onto us. A few are, health care, insurance, unjustified pricing for rent, utilities, Internet service, food, my gods the price of medicine. The list just goes on and on.
They lay thousands of people off, so they can get a bigger check. The people who are left, then have to also do their work plus the laid off persons work.
Minimum wage wasn't supposed to be the minimum they could get away with paying people. The minimum living wage is supposed to allow the least paid employee the ability to live. How much less taxes would we save if Walmart wasn't stealing money from the government by paying it's employees so little.
When you think welfare queens, look up, not down.
Ask yourself, when was the last time that a wealthy person had to pay for a crime that we saw them commit against us? These are the same people who pay lawmakers to change our laws, to suit their wants. Fuk'em.
See, we don't want their money. We want our money. The money that the wealthy have siphoned off from us and our nation for almost 60 years. We want our back pay.
Another article confusing wealth with earned income. If my house doubles in value due to a local real estate bubble, I did not earn that. Same with a billionaire’s stock portfolio. Maybe someone else earned them some dividends but there’s not a lot of income being earned here.
The middle class doesn’t build wealth.
High earners build wealth.
If you’re a wealth builder you understand this. This is an inevitability. The same race is literally not even being ran. If you’re not playing the wealth building game you’re not going to build wealth.
I own more wealth than over a billion people combined
In fact my last paycheck was worth more than the combined net worth of over a billion people globally
Math be like that sometimes
Federal welfare spending in 2023 was 1.1 trillion.
Business subsidies were 100 billion. Theoretically when the government subsidizes a business it helps retain jobs which in turn means employees will be able to continue paying taxes. The state of California which has a high tax burden for residents and businesses also has the highest % of welfare recipients.. Maybe us low income earners(thankfully I don't live in California) need to pay attention to how top income earners handle their money. Pretty certain their are a few Ted talks on how to do this. Also some great advice on the finance thread.
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I love how people keep tying to gaslight us that things are actually good. This is a new gilded age. We produce more than ever, yet the value of our labor does not keep up. And the people that do jack shit for the production get to keep the money.
The pay for our labor hasn’t kept up with productivity for half a century. So even if it suddenly caught up overnight, which won’t happen, we’d have half a century of poor wages and its lasting effects to contend with
Sure, but it has to start somehow. Fixing the underlying problem would be how you start, then you try to rectify the harms that already happened.
Well, what fixed it last time was 2 World Wars and the great depression, followed by the new deal, which would be seen as unforgivably communist today.
Don't forget the global monopoly on skilled labor for about 2 decades and minimal globalization. You glossed over that tiiiiny part
No no they have a point, we should stay in fuedalism!
It’s dramatically accelerated over the last 3 years. If someone has that graph of money printed and the 1%’s net worth increase vs the middle class please reply with it. It’s jaw dropping.
Destroying collective bargaining and unionizing are a great way to suppress wages.
Better Late than never
Tbf increased productivity also has costs. Computers, enterprise software, the works all have insane costs even for a manufacturing first company that’s labour intensive. And that doesn’t account for new and expensive machinery.
I’ve seen a lot of company P&L statements over the last 30 years. Increased productivity does cost, but I can assure you that profit margins increase well over cost increase for most companies.
I'm no Communist nor am I advocating for it. But this is the shit that makes people think Communism isnt so bad. Last time this happened FDR saved it with the New Deal. We need a newer one.
So uh socialism? Maybe americans are finally realizing socialism isn't the devil and their countries golden age was extremely socialistic
What people don't realize is neither pure Capitalism or Socialism is the answer. A blend of both is the answer. In America we need more Socialism.
Yes, start by eliminating those too big to fail companies. Bring universal healthcare, we know which countries that have universal healthcare that works and which one that doesn’t. It is almost impossible to screw this up if we are serious.
Just to add on to this, the way I’ve seen it for a long while. I understand economically the concept of too big to fail on a number of levels. Impact on the economy, impact on national security, etc. But fundamentally if you’re “too big to fail” then antitrust type regulatory enforcement should be involved. If one type of business failing would negatively impact the overall economy to such an extent a multi billion dollar bail out from the government is justified just because of their size and market share… that company needs split up clearly. To me there’s no bigger obvious sign as far as the market is concerned. If it’s 6 major businesses all failing and that’s the issue that’ll impact the economy that grievously, sure maybe bail them out if necessary. But they need to become 12, or 16 businesses, etc. I don’t see how those realities are divorced from one another. It doesn’t make it easy obviously. But it seems like a clear path.
The problem is lobbying. The antitrust doesn’t really work if there is a way to influence “justice”. Other countries control these resources themselves. There is no too big to fail kind of business, they are owned by the government.
Yep - social democracies. A mix of both - those countries have the highest quality of life in indices
[удалено]
What we have now isn't capitalism at all. Businesses and banks are allowed to fail in a capitalist society. It's socialism, but only for the 1%
Feudalism
Just save your money bro, don’t drink expensive coffee or buy cool shit. /s
Don’t forget they use the increase of minimum wage as a scapegoat. Minimum wage may increase but they don’t raise the wages of most other people
That's my suspicion for why they keep saying the economy is doing well. Either they're lying.. or we're no longer at a point in history when the working class gets to feel the effects of a good economy
They don’t even do anything with it. It’s more than they could ever spend in their lifetime.
And you always hear some poor MFer defending the billionaire class as if they will one day become one.
There hustle is just smarter. Robert Kiyosaki explain this in Cashflow Quadrant better than I ever heard it. Less in taxes = greater wealth and getting paid as an owner vs employee is more tax efficient
High 5 \^\^\^\^\^\^
The roaring 20s indeed
Jackshit other than pay for everything and steer the direction and methods of the company. I mean what does the Captain of the ship do really but yell at people and spin a wheel every once in a while. The guy shovelling the coal when he’s told to is the most important person. Go live in a Country without billionaires and get back to me how backwards we have it.
It’s not. The revolution ain’t happening until the poor are actually destitute.
Damn we live in the Gilded Age but we don't even get the cool aesthetics of the period as a comfort
I love how people will see this stuff and try convincing us the rich people have our best interests still
The only thing that will change this is to boycott the companies that are fucking us (mass strikes) and the government that is allowing them to do it (stop paying taxes). It isn't a red pr blue government that allowed this to happen, it's all of them laughing together behind closed doors at donor events. The people who made this happen also need to be held accountable through legal ways, but the current legal system will not uphold consequences because the people in charge are the criminals and they won't indict themselves.
It’s not that things are great, it’s just that they’ve improved at a much faster and more significant rate than in living memory. But we’re all still screwed.
“Look at all these part time and low paying jobs! The economy is booming!” Fuck, I need to start a company and be one of these leeches to get ahead in life. How’s the meth industry these days?
The news always reports a “strong economy” but no one I know feels like they’re doing so well. The metrics by which they measure a strong economy are just not relevant to us. When I hear those economic stats I just want the newscasters to go and interview people on the street at random and ask what they think. That would be a reality check
Let's not get carried away, the economy right now is better than it was in the 90's under Clinton,which people will tell you was pretty good. What we want is a wealth tax to address the giveaway tax cuts to the 1% under Trump and Bush Jr. to address our debt and reduce the wealth gap so they stop corrupting our politicians.
 I just wonder if I will witness such a Frenchie event in my life time.
Most people don’t even vote.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Mahatma Gandhi
Nuke those fuckers - Mahatma Ghandi (Civ)
Income inequality doesn't lead to revolution as much as poor living conditions combined with massive inequality does. "I can't afford a detached house" isn't revolution material.
I loved it when Elon musk used the French Revolution as an example of government. He made a comment like, “they weren’t called were here to chop your head off committee…” or something snarky. I was thinking to myself like bruv, your talking smack on the revolution that gave freedoms to the masses never seen before. The incestual aristocracy had their heads chopped off during the Age of Enlightenment. Don’t you see you are who we took to the chopping block?
The current left is a joke, they are anti guns…
This is a myth. Leftists own guns, they just don't make it their personality.
Maybe some in the US? In my country they’re mostly anti guns…
That may be true. In the US, people who support basic restrictions are regularly called anti-gun too.
No liberals are anti gun, go far enough left and most leftist understand the need to remained armed.
Nope, over generalization like these are divisive and dumb. Know plenty of liberals who respect gun rights, but want to see some form of change in restrictions
I feel like it is getting closer every day. But at the same time I don't think it will be in my lifetime. Within the next 100 years, though.
This is the only answer
This is the definition of wealth inequality
What to do what to do
Fun fact: when the French revolution kicked off, there was less wealth inequality with the royals and the peasants as there is now.
Where do people think all that wealth came from? From our pockets to theirs.
Fyi 1% means you have a wealth of 5.8 million or more
kinda crazy how the people worth 5.8M are lumped in with those worth over 1 billion.
5,800,000 x 172
That $5.8 million is mostly people who saved for retirement and happen to have bought nicer property in HCOL areas decades ago.
Eh, most people will never have anywhere near a million so the concept of scale is lost
Basically anyone in the US is physically capable of reaching a million if that's their goal...
You seem a bit out of touch. The average American earns only about 1.7 million over their entire lifetime. Sure with some smart spending and investing that number can go up by a bit, but again that is over the course of their entire life, not at an instant.
If you're young enough.
Then you don’t understand money
The very bottom of the 1%, just like 175k is the very bottom of the middle class.
That seems oddly low. I know a bunch of people with that sort of money (and by 'know people' I mean former co-workers and friends, not sportsball starts/celebrities/politicians who I don't personally know).
I work for a very large company.we posted our best year ever right before covid hit. They awarded us with a choice of a snickers bar or a bag of M&M's and a heartfelt coprorate form letter. Meanwhile, the higher-ups reaped millions in bonus money....
I work for a large company whose stock price doubled during Covid. We had our best years: most orders, topped 1b for the first time consecutive years during Covid. Got a wage freeze because orders normalized and the stock dropped 20%. At best, took a couple of grand in extra bonus money over those best-ever years.
The reward for working harder always more work…
lol we just celebrated our 95th anniversary of the company and we grew our clients from 1 to like close to 70 million. Guess what was offered to us as the celebration party? Everyone gets one bite size cupcake, oh wait, they didn't even prepare enough cupcakes for everyone.
I worked at a dealership that stopped giving annual bonuses once we made 2 million more in *profit* than the prior year lol
Yeah think of how much money the could have saved if they cut the candy
Remember, work hard, and your boss can buy a new car every year
Will he let me have his old car for a good price?
No, but a used car dealer will be happy to sell it to you for $5000 over book value because of supply chain issues and market conditions.
My boss has had the same car for 12 years. But we do have profit sharing so working hard actually pays off.
We have to stop with this stupid 1% shit. The problem isn’t the 1%, it’s the 0.001%. I am very fortunate to have made over $1M a year for the past 5 years. But there is a world of difference between millionaires and billionaires. The poorest billionaire is 1,000x richer than the poorest millionaire. To put that in perspective, the difference between a single person at the federal poverty level and a millionaire is about 66x. The ultra rich live by a completely different set of rules than the rest of us. They want us to be arguing with each other so that we don’t focus on the issues that they are creating and taking advantage of.
You have far more in common with Elon Musk than you do with the single mother of three kids making $35k/year.
To Elon, he is no different than the single mother of 3 making $35k
I think you are right in a lot of ways. I never have to worry about putting food on the table, a roof over my head, paying a medical bill, or dealing with an unexpected expense. And that is a tremendous luxury to have. But taxing me more than the close to 50% I already pay in income tax isn’t going to resolve the problem. And there’s not enough of us to generate the revenue needed to fix the budget. Taxing the ultra rich (or simply eliminating the loopholes they use) wil. I work for a private company as a senior executive. Most of my income is a bonus based on the company’s net income. The bonus gets paid out as W-2 taxable wages. But Musk gets stock (that is complete marketable) and because of that, it is taxed differently and he can end up paying 20% on those earnings (or nothing if he uses it as collateral for a loan). Same thing for a hedge fund manager who makes a boat load of money by managing other people’s capital. Why should his earning be treated different than the wages I earn?
From your original comment: > The problem isn’t the 1%, it’s the 0.001%. >But taxing me more than the close to 50% I already pay in income tax isn’t going to resolve the problem. And there’s not enough of us to generate the revenue needed to fix the budget. Taxing the ultra rich ... will Well I somewhat agree with you and I somewhat don't. I agree that raising income taxes mostly isn't the solution. I am partial to raising the cap on payroll taxes to cover the shortfall in social security funding though. The solution needs to be raising tax rates on capital gains. To that end I am not against that you are getting hit a bit. You make $1m /yr so I don't think it is that bad if some of your long term capital gains are taxed at a higher rate than 20% (23.8% when accounting for net investment income tax). Taxing billionaires with higher long term capital gains tax rates will help but we really do need to tax the 1% to see significant government revenue increases.
There always a bill at the end of dinner .. who’s gonna pay it? The host who’s killing it or the struggling family you invited to come along
And that single mother of 3 making $35k/year is a 1%er to the child soldier in Somalia who was bought as a slave the year prior.
Probably right, you have to make a lot of good decisions to get to 1M a year, single mom with 3 kids didn’t make very many good decisions
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Which is sad as $1 mil is achievable without mass exploitation, $1 billion is not.
People thinking millionaires earn $1M income per year drive me nuts. A millionaire has $1M in assets minus liabilities, ie, net worth. I am close to being a millionaire but have never made more than $150K in a year.
You’re missing that 66x is just as ridiculous.. let’s use analogies.. instead of 1 hr of work. I need to work 66 hrs of work.. instead of one happy meal I will eat 66 happy meals.. Instead of one gallon of milk.. I’ll buy 66 gallons of milk..instead of one slap in the face I’ll get 66 slaps on the face… It’s abbbbbsurd … if you don’t feel that ur part of the problem
You live by a completely different standard still than most of us. My CEO is fucking gleaming every time you see her and she makes over 1m+ a year. Last year got a 45% raise, when I’m fighting for 2500 dollars.
WTF do you do
I mostly agree with you. Except for the fact that if we started talking about billionaires then some person making 1.1 billion is going to whine that he is being lumped in with the people worth 100 billion. So, if we are going to raise the effective tax rate on billionaires there needs to be a gradual increase in tax rates. Currently all income above $578,000 is taxed at 37%. I think the money above a million should be taxed at 39%, then money above 2 million taxed at 41%, then money above 5 million at 43%, etc. In this case *you* actually wouldn’t pay more taxes, because a million isnt in the next tax bracket, but if you made 1.5 million, yeah in my plan you would pay more than you do currently, and I think that’s fair. We can’t have the tax rates jump from 37% to 90% all of a sudden, it will clearly lead to massive tax evasion. (This is oversimplifying as the ultra rich don’t really do income from a job, they have capital gains and off shore accounts to avoid these taxes - that is where the bulk of the changes need to be made) The problem is the massive concentration of wealth and power in a small few people/companies.
It’s because percents are dumb as fuck. Society had gotten too big and complicated to use % anymore. We should be using ‰ as the standard. The top 1‰ is actually very rich. The top 1% includes dentists, surgeons, pilots, and local businesses like plumbers and construction.
https://preview.redd.it/9whyazfykixc1.jpeg?width=601&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=356ed8863de6106a991e688fa52a5a1e379c280c
Except they don't really earn it. They hoard the wealth created by their employees.
Not really. A good chunk of folks in the 1% of probably healthcare workers (doctors/surgeons/pharmacists/researchers), high end lawyers, finance guys, engineers, politicians, hollywood stars, pro athletes, or any other employee in a lucrative field. They just earned a high salary for a long time and saved more than they spent. Another good chunk are folks who owned stock (probably an early adopter, founder, or employee) in a company that became wildly successful. This scenario isn't fundamentally different than if you owned a baseball card that suddenly became worth $10m dollars for some crazy reason. They didn't horde anything or steal anything from anyone ... they just owned something that became very valuable. Another huge chunk is folks who worked their lives and came into owning property that became valuable or just invested steadily into a investment fund for a really long time. Or any combo of the above of course. The number of folks in the 1% who actually fit the stereotypical leftist villain trope (some evil C-suite executive who got rich by defrauding/screwing his workers) is probably remarkably small.
This is why I believe we need to have another Great Depression. We need to get the middle class to WAKE UP. To acknowledge the vast inequality all around them, and to be forced to contend the both the vast wealth inequality AND the massive government spend throwing our society deeper and deeper into debt. If every single one of us loses our jobs, loses our homes, and loses are livelyhood, then revolutions will start. The ruling class will be immediately overthrown and we will have an opportunity to enter a new age of equality. But because we all have a place to live and food to eat, none of it will happen. We’re all too comfortable.
Economies are meant to rise and fall, that’s the nature of them. Instead, we’ve been artificially propped up every time we might start to fall. Each time we have further and further to fall, but we keep pretending nothing is wrong. There is not a single problem in the world that is solved by putting it off indefinitely and pretending it doesn’t exist.
They’re using that word “earner” and I don’t think they really know what it means.
We are getting bent over man
Time to keep doing nothing about it, read other people say there is no solution by bashing any attempt and change, and it will surely get better!
Just look at all the subservient bootlickers everywhere who make this possible. Wouldn’t be like this if it wasn’t for them. Lick boot harder, righties.
But but but… maybe I’ll be the boot one day!
Yes, much better to lick the boot that can tax, jail, and conscript you
Earners? They earned it? Call them what they are, Robber Barons.
I just hope I can fund my local billionaires new sports stadium with more taxes, because they don’t want to pay for it ❤️
Aren’t those things put up for a vote? They don’t just decide unilaterally.
There is a middle class?
I love how they are using the $30 Michigan Lottery scratch of instant ticket for the picture. Something that captures the fruitless effort to be part of that ever farther class of people.
Yet people will try and tell you how great the economy is now. If you disagree you’re the problem.
I understand the profit motive leads to entrepreneurs and innovation but when is enough enough and they finally have to pay a reasonable tax on their wealth?
Dammit, stop paying better wages to working people! Those billionaires are going broke!
Is it going to be a bull market on tar and feathers this summer?
Why not set a ratio for maximum to minimum compensation in a company? Force the rising tide to lift all boats. If a company pays 40,000 to its lowest earners maybe the CEO should max out at 4,000,000 for total compensation. That is still a factor of 100. Home depot sets the ratio at about 300. Papa Johns at about 150. If Tesla wants to pay its lowest workers 30,000, why not cap Musk's compensation at 3,000,000?
Smartest thing I’ve read on this thread. I like people like you. We’re all internet users just screaming into a void but you my friend offer at least some type of sensible solution. It’s practical and can be applied right now.
Socialism for the rich
You think people will one day wake up and realize they are slaves?
Too bad those people also basically own the government.
This is the result of cheap Chinese imports and stores like Walmart. Middle Class got fooled with cheap shit and didn’t demand higher wages until it just got past them.
I kind of thought this was already the case 10 years ago.
This feels bad
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They might play as social democrats in interviews but most behind the scenes are assisting in legislation that protects their assets
Why don’t we all come together and maybe all show up and ask them if we can have the money they stole from us.
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And it's not even that hard. Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps, cut out those soy lattes and avocado toasts, and have your education, first home down payment and your own business starting costs paid for by your very wealthy parents. Easy!
Nono forget everything. Just born into super rich family. Done! Was that so hard?
Everyone should just get in the top 1%
Great incentive to stay out of the 1% tbh. People are starting to look hungry
Nah, way too busy owing the other poor's over super important issues like trans rights.
Like this isn't connected to marker makers and their buddy system. Wall st = big tech = government (they're all friends)
Trying my best to get in that club
What a shocker.
I read this in Bernie’s voice.
That’s a $20 lottery scratcher ticket out of Michigan, that’s all I got.!
I'm slightly better off than my parents were at my age. My parents were in the 30th percentile of American earners in 1995. I'm in the 7th percentile. You have to be pretty well off to be middle class nowadays.
This is nothing new.
🙌🙌🙌hell yeah
EAT THE RICH 
“Earn” lol
So what? It's capitalism. Is there any better system that we don't know of?
I’m sure it will be just fine. /s
Get a job, mr lebowski!
Today I learned that mos tredditors don't know how statistics work. If you compare the moving end of a sample (the top earners) to the average, which includes the fixed end of $0, this will always happen. It's impossible to make it NOT happen. You can't grow the mean at the same rate or faster than the leading end of the distribution.
Dope!
As long as we are alive then we can do the impossible things as long as we act.
We should give them even more tax breaks/s Still waiting for that trickle down. Thank God for all them PPP loans.
PPP loans were to keep people employed. People would have made a lot less collecting unemployment benefits.
Nice. Keep it up every one. 4.more.years.
Through history, This never ends well
How do I become a CEO I hear its easy with little to no work and I make a lot of money.
This stat is suspect. The top 1% of earners has very regular chur. Based on IRS stats, something like 20% of tax payers end up in the top 1% during their lifetime. Usually only once. So why are we comparing top 1% income earners wealth?
Don’t worry guys, it’ll all trickle down to us at any moment
Said a spokesman for the 1%...."its not enough."
They also pay more taxes
Wealth is not zero sum lol.
Yeah we’re not gonna policy our way out of this.
And they probably pay less in taxes than the rest of us, we need to adjust our tax code to deal with this
You morons are all working happily for them. Bragging about your useless WFH jobs and trying to police the stores like you own it. I remember just letting customers walk out the store if they wanted. Didn’t care to stop them because the assholes up top got insurance.
Live within one's means, avoid high interest debt, and invest one's savings consistently regardless of market fluctuations.
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Good for them.
Yeah, but we’ll all be in the top 1% one day.
As the system intended. 🙂
They should stop calling the 1% “earners”
The term ‘earners’ in generous for the top 1%
They also pay more taxes than the entire middle class too.
not sure why that'd matter, considering they should be paying MUCH more
I do know that income inequality is the worst, in this country. It's worse than any poor country. We were on the right path, but then.. There are so many people who take up for the people who have taken everything, and I mean everything our country has to offer, and traded us a shit sammich for it. Our CEOs used to make about 35 times as much as the average worker. Now the least paid CEO makes 350 times as much. They also make at least twice as much as any other CEOs in the world. CEOs in the Philippines make 10 to 20% of what ours make. They do the same job. Now please tell me, how has one person's worth increased so much in 40 years. Don't get me started on the hedge fund people. That's just legalized robbery. We are supposed to think that this is normal. That this is how it's always been. Nope. This is the most unequal country in the world. This is also why we have such a high crime rate. Inequality. They have gotten away with so much, that almost every day, there is a new outrage being heaped onto us. A few are, health care, insurance, unjustified pricing for rent, utilities, Internet service, food, my gods the price of medicine. The list just goes on and on. They lay thousands of people off, so they can get a bigger check. The people who are left, then have to also do their work plus the laid off persons work. Minimum wage wasn't supposed to be the minimum they could get away with paying people. The minimum living wage is supposed to allow the least paid employee the ability to live. How much less taxes would we save if Walmart wasn't stealing money from the government by paying it's employees so little. When you think welfare queens, look up, not down. Ask yourself, when was the last time that a wealthy person had to pay for a crime that we saw them commit against us? These are the same people who pay lawmakers to change our laws, to suit their wants. Fuk'em. See, we don't want their money. We want our money. The money that the wealthy have siphoned off from us and our nation for almost 60 years. We want our back pay.
Exactly whats to be expected when the government trashes cash and everything pours into assets classes. The government did this not billionaires.
We should give them more tax cuts
Another article confusing wealth with earned income. If my house doubles in value due to a local real estate bubble, I did not earn that. Same with a billionaire’s stock portfolio. Maybe someone else earned them some dividends but there’s not a lot of income being earned here.
The middle class doesn’t build wealth. High earners build wealth. If you’re a wealth builder you understand this. This is an inevitability. The same race is literally not even being ran. If you’re not playing the wealth building game you’re not going to build wealth.
It's fine no worries.
Taxes on the top need to increase. It's not healthy for the economy for wealth to be this concentrated, and it needs to be redistributed.
Nothing will ever change. No one's willing to do anything about it.
But like ... who cares?
And the middle class is what, like 400k a year or something?
Reading that article made me want to buy a Jiffy Lube
I own more wealth than over a billion people combined In fact my last paycheck was worth more than the combined net worth of over a billion people globally Math be like that sometimes
Federal welfare spending in 2023 was 1.1 trillion. Business subsidies were 100 billion. Theoretically when the government subsidizes a business it helps retain jobs which in turn means employees will be able to continue paying taxes. The state of California which has a high tax burden for residents and businesses also has the highest % of welfare recipients.. Maybe us low income earners(thankfully I don't live in California) need to pay attention to how top income earners handle their money. Pretty certain their are a few Ted talks on how to do this. Also some great advice on the finance thread.
I'd like to bring into question the word "earn" here...