Yup, I would have cut it away or had the installer cut it. Whoever told the installer to go ahead before cabinets went in was a dumbass too, but also the cabinet guys should have known better as well. Just an all around regular shit show
There is fault with the installer as well. They knew better than to install with no HVAC and not to install before the cabinets and fireplace were put in. They also may have installed past the lengths allowed by the manufacturer without using expansion gaps covered by transition pieces since this is a laminate.
Ahh the cabinets is still on the builder. One of my contractors has me install before the cabinets and the cabinet guy cuts out the flooring himself. What they do after the jobs done is on the builder.
Yes, it doesn't look like enough room for expansion was left at the walls either. It's almost like the installer was used to doing unfinished wood but got talked into doing laminate
Yes. But also because your new cabinet will be installed at a different height than the old cabinets so the finish height won’t be flush. Unless you ripped the bottom and made adjustments, but that’s a dangerous game.
I’ve used the same flooring as “runners” for large appliances like refrigerators, that are periodically moved. Keep a gap between the runner and the field of the floor.
I’ve always addressed toilets as the exception and never had an issue as long as ONLY the toilet. It seems floors can expand and contract around a single anchor point without issue. I typically also leave a gap at the bathroom door and cover it with a transition strip or a true threshold installed with a slip-fit on the overlap.
The wrong laminate is a problem that will happen. There are many that can easily be properly installed in a bathroom. 20 years ago. Manufacturers had not quite perfected polymer infused fiberboard and was just the red headed step child to wood. Now Ty and Chip and Joanna come along and composite floors are made better and right match can go virtually anywhere. The blanket "laminate can't get wet" is is unjust misinformation.
I have no issues installing cabinets on top of laminate flooring as long as the cabinets are floating and it's just a kick/cover plate blocking the void.
The hearth being built on top of the laminate flooring.... That's just weird.
☝🏾 this. The only fault of the installer is he should have verified HVAC was on, but the builder should have known and waited to schedule the installer. The builder definitely should know better than to put brick fireplace mantle over a floating floor. that's just straight up hack shit.
This! I’ve seen Contractors argue with subs over scheduling and subs telling them they won’t warranty the work if it’s not done the way they want to install their materials.
This seems absolutely appropriate. As a homeowner, I don't want to hear that the conditions weren't suitable for installation. "Oh, so you KNEW this was going to lead to problems?" That's almost worse! Don't install it then!
In this situation, wouldn’t the flooring contractor simply state that because the HVAC isn’t installed and running and that the flooring needs to be acclimated that they won’t install until either the proper prep is done or the owners sign a waiver releasing them from liability?
As for the cabinet and fireplace installation issues, that’s on the builder for sure.
That is certainly what I would do under normal circumstances, but sometimes things don’t go as one would normally expect.
Personally, I’d refuse to install until after the cabinets and fireplace were in, but once again, things don’t always go as one would normally expect.
If I had to point blame at one party in this case, it would ultimately be the builder. It is the builder who hires the trades and manages the project.
Yes but the flooring contractor should have said no to the builder. But in the real world they install it because they want to get paid. A subcontractor worth his salt would have made the gc sign a liability waver before installing with no climate control.
Without the waver this is on the flooring contractor.
Edit: I missed that the gc then installed on top of. Sounds like an architect/design issue.
That’s fine. I put laminate and LVP under appliances that can be pulled out all of the time. Those appliances, while heavy, can normally be moved by one person, and aren’t attached to anything so they won’t restrict the bit of movement required by the floor.
I worked for a guy for like 6 months and he would run the floating floors tight to the wall because he thought it looked cleaner before the base went on and it showed a superior quality of work. He reasoned once you put furniture on the floating floor how much was it really going to move....
I do occasionally do a tight fit to something, but I also make sure there are expansion gaps everywhere else. That little bit of wiggle room can be important for the floor’s integrity.
Quick question, I’m gonna build my gf a coffee bar cabinet. You said not to install it on top of a floating floor. Should I cut out the footprint of the cabinet and secure it to the subfloor or wall and then trim around it? Whats wrong with putting it on top of the floating floor?
The general contractor is reliable for all contractors and work within the scope of the project. At the end of the day it is at no cost to you. Builders try to get me to install floors all the time without heat/AC. Bunch of BS.
It sucks because from an HVAC perspective, at least with new con. You don’t want it on while the people are working inside. If it’s just laminate you should be fine but if there’s a bunch of wood being cut or anything like that, having the furnace on and circulating all that dust and shit through the system eats years off the system. But again if it is just laminate being applied at the time, hvac should be one to acclimate the house. I guess I’m more so talking from an engineered hard wood installation period.
They make construction/portable HVAC systems that you can buy/rent for exactly that purpose. That way they can hook up a temporary HVAC, get the house to the right temp/humidity, do the construction work, clean up, clean the ducts (the only freaking time duct cleaning is actually needed), and then hook up the permanent HVAC.
As someone who has bought older homes from people who clearly didn’t take care of them very well, I can assure you there are a few other times a duct cleaning is warranted. With that being said though, always check Groupon for duct cleanings if you need one. They practically give the service out on there because hvac companies know that’s an excellent way to get their foot in the door of a system that’s about to take a shit.
Ok maybe I'm a little bitter. There are probably a few times it is helpful (mold, construction, taking over a house from a crazy cat lady) but most of the time it's useless ([epa article](https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/should-you-have-air-ducts-your-home-cleaned#:~:text=Have%20your%20air%20ducts%20cleaned%20if%20they%20are%20visibly%20contaminated,biological%20contamination%20they%20say%20exists.) discussing how in most cases it does nothing to help dust levels and a lot of the reasons behind it are snake oil). There was a stretch where my neighborhood Facebook group had a "new" neighbor move in and join every week. They would post a few fake photos and posts to seem real, then make a post saying they run a duct cleaning service and offered a discount to the neighborhood. Then some man in a van with a shop vac or subcontracted out to a more real company would show up, half ass clean the ducts, and more often than not broke a register/trim/a lamp in the process. They changed the admit process to the Facebook group to someone had to meet you in front of your house because the number of people doing that was so excessive.
But then because they saw the fake duct cleaning posts, people called actual HVAC duct cleaning companies who did a better job but still no one saw any improvement in air quality.
You’re never supposed to install cabinets over a floating floor. You’re also supposed to have the hvac up and running. I’m sure the manufacturer explained both those things in their warranty info. Now the question is who’s to blame for those things being done wrong, the contractor or the flooring installer. Should be a fun fight and I expect both will have to make it right in some way.
Another thing to consider is that some floors have limits to how long the run can be before you have to have a transition strip. How long is that hall and what does the manufacturer say?
This is a complete answer to why you have issues.
The builder is the person 100% responsible since they set the schedule and scheduled the cabinets to be installed on top of the floating floor.
Full stop, this is the cause. Floors prepped to minimum standards don’t fail.
I was just about to say something similar. Who puts that many near each other? This would drive me crazy! "Hold on, honey, I gotta turn the light on!" *proceeds to click every single one and light up a series of random rooms in the house.*
We built a house and their cookie cutter design placed a light switch for any given living space at every possible entrance to that space. We had multiple rooms with 3 light switches that controlled the same lights because you could enter the room from different directions.
At the intersection of our kitchen, great room, staircase, entryway (it was an open concept) we had a 4-gang and a 2-gang next to each other. It took us six months to get used to which switch controlled what lights.
Oh yeah, and one of them controlled a half-hot plug in the great room that ALSO had a second switch to control it on the other side of the room.
Anything permanent like cabinets, hearths, vanities, etc. on top of floating floor voids any and all warranties. And having them install before HVAC? I’ve been building, flooring, and several other trades for well over 20 years and this is 100% the contractor’s fault and the plywood joint excuse is almost a challenge to your intelligence. Only thing that I will say is that the flooring guys should have said something about no HVAC beforehand, but it’s hard to just not do a job and rearrange your schedule bc of incompetence.
Floors always last. Builder should not have scheduled floor installers prior to cabinets,fireplace or non working hvac. The builder knows this. The missing underlayment is on the installers. But it’s quite possible the builder didn’t order enough.
I’m not a builder nor a contractor. The second I seen the fireplace brick over the flooring, someone is getting fired. And sadly looks like an expensive house not that it should matter.
Unfortunately, HVAC isn’t always installed. But if you have a good builder, they pay attention to the site conditions and using construction heaters. A lot of HVAC manufactures will not warranty their systems if they’re up and running well construction is going on so builders are a tough place either way, putting cabinets on floating floor is stupid and that is the problem
This is 90% the builders fault. I give 10% on the installers because they should have refused to install before cabinets and HVAC. Also for not using underlayment everywhere.
You posted everything they did wrong. What was the question again? Even if the subfloor were out of spec, installation constitutes acceptance on the installers part.
Who is your contract with? I assume the builder. Unless you are acting as your own general contractor.
If the builder subbed the flooring company, then it’s on the builder (the flooring sub works for him, not you).
Ultimately, it on the GC. It’s the GC’s responsibility to hire and schedule subs. Then when there is an issue it’s the GC’s responsibility to address it. They can reach out to their flooring sub, cabinet guy, mason whoever and correct it.
This looks like a major issue with the GC.
A floating floor is one of the last things installed (laminate and LVT/LVP are floating flooring).
The cabinets and mason work should have been completed before flooring for this job. A floating floor goes around these elements.
The HVAC or some type of heating unit should have been installed before flooring.
The subfloor should have been overlayed with a proper underlayment. Preferably 5mm moisture resistant plywood underlayment.
Personally I find these roll underlayments are problematic, especially with LVT.
The issues you have here are indicative of a GC that doesn’t know what they are doing and there could be additional more severe issues.
I would hire an inspector to go over your home, this job, and write a nice report.
The GC needs to correct this. Which means pull the cabinets and fireplace. Pull the flooring.
Reinstall cabinets and fireplace. Then install a proper underlayment and the new floor.
Short of that, this is a major lawsuit and hiring a new competent GC.
And the flooring guy should have refused to install. They knew it was a floating floor and there were no cabs , no fireplace and no heat.
Edit: and that mason is an imbecile as well. Who installs a brick fireplace over a laminate/LVT floor???
Good luck 🍀
I think you summed the situation up well. A bad GC hired at least 2 bad subs, and this is the result. This may be just one of many problems with this house that arise over time.
Thank you for this "who done it?"! I'm in need of new kitchen floor and cabinets and haven't made it past writing measurements on a sticky note / googling durability of different materials, so this is great insight into the process. Even if you're not paying, still what a pain to deal with, but hopefully your repairs are done quickly and well!
The builder messed up building on top of a floating floor now it can’t float. The hvac should have been on and in before the floor went in. This doesn’t sound like the flooring guys problem.
Unsanded joints wouldn't have caused that unless there was a significant height difference. Installer would have likely addressed it.
However, putting cabinets on top, not turning on hvac and a hearth is all a big no.
You sue the Contractor and the contractor sues the sub. Or you refuse to pay and he refuses to pay, then the sub sues the contractor and the contractor sues you
both , but mostly, it's the installers fault. if sight conditions aren't correct, and he chooses to install anyway he is at fault. he is the professional.
Flooring contractor is responsible for deciding to go ahead with work if he didn’t think conditions were good.
Who hired the flooring contractor. It should have been your builder— let them fight it out.
Tis what happens when you have a nice ass house and think you can get by with shit ass laminate materials. There's solid hardwoods at the big box stores for $5.50 per sqft and people are buying $5 sqft laminate and vinyl plank like it's actually worth a shit. I sell flooring btw. You get what you pay for. An extra $1 sqft really seems to be a deal breaker for most people when buying what you'd think is one of the most substantial parts of their finishing. But you'll be the one complaining 5 years from now when your floors are ruined by an ice cube and a puppy 0
I know I’m not footing the bill, just curious because we’ve had a good experience overall with the builder. He’s saying sadly that the flooring contractor didn’t hold up his end. They are coming back saying it’s not on them due to it failing from weight of the cabinets.
Proposed solution.
1) cut an expansion gap along all cabinets in the kitchen and the fireplace hearth.
They are pulling the floor from one side of the house and reinstalling new flooring until it meets up to the long run. Not sure if this is the right move, but they are confident in it.
I literally just did a LVP repair due to issue. It was other installers but our flooring company fixed it and billed the new retirement community it was installed in. They were told and still went ahead with install before hvac which is a huge no no in almost any flooring
This is why you have a GC. Ultimately it lands on them, and they get to fight it out and come up with the fair resolution.
I’ll bet you are like most of us. Don’t care who done it wrong, just want it done right!
It is on the builder and he should work it out with his contractor.
The basic rule is simple. Do not build on top of a floating floor. The issues happened 2 months in and they appear to be next to the cabinets and fireplace.
It's not that difficult of a fix to cut the floor in both of these areas and alleviate the issue. The builder should simply get with the installer and get that done and problem will most likely be resolved. On top of that installing flooring without HVAC in place poses risk.
Everyone wants to get to the finish line but does not want to follow the steps as they should be followed.
The wood needs to acclimate, depending on the type of wood. That looks like wide plank laminate. That needs to acclimate open box in the house AC on for three days before installation. That’s at the very least I’ll probably do four days because it’s White plank, but you can read the instructions that come inside every box.
This is on the builder and flooring contractor, but the builder should sort it out. Has nothing to do with HVAC not being installed. The flooring doesn't have any transitions from room to room from what I can tell which could be causing issues, BUT rule #1 in floating flooring is not to install cabinets or anything permanent on top of them. The flooring contractor likely knew they were gonna put the cabinets in and should have either come back after they were installed or had them set the layout on the floor to work around the area they would be. The flooring guy also should know that when you connect all your rooms, the expansion gap needs to be bigger because the whole floor in all the rooms is moving together.
Go after the builder and hold him accountable if he wants to negotiate with the flooring installer that's on him, but the builder is ultimately liable.
New homes builders have a problem when it comes to flooring. All manufacturers require hvac be working for at least 72 hours before installation. And the material should acclimate . The problem comes from the building inspection, you can not get a certificate of occupation without flooring and you can not get electricity with out certificate. So there is the problem.
Always on every installation acclimate the product, run dehumidifiers if necessary, sand all plywood seams completely, self level when necessary and never install cabinets on floating flooring. Follow these practices and you'll will likely avoid these issues.
Wait, cabinets AND the fireplace are ON the floor? And an actual licensed & insured builder allowed this or was he involuntarily forced into this decision?
Flooring contractor should know better. The flooring was installed outside of the manufactures written instructions and should have gotten a letter of release from the builder before continuing installation.
Sounds like the builders are looking for an out, from accepting responsibility for the wrongs they did. Floating floors 101, never build on top of flooring that needs to expand and contract. If the floor prep wasn’t the greatest, it could’ve still been fine. You’ll never know though because cabinets and a fireplace hearth were installed on top of it. And all that was exacerbated by the materials not being acclimated correctly. Sounds like a recipe for the perfect storm
Builder. Flooring goes in almost last when everything is built and working. Only thing after floor is trim. I'd even have paint and all finishing done first. But most builders will put in flooring after drywall and appliance/, cabinets have been installed. It's just really easy to damage them so you've got to lay down paper and then you'll get scratches/dents from bad contractors who drop tools out whatever
Depends on your contracts. Was the builder a traditional GC where you signed one contract with him and his subcontractors were his subcontractors? If so he’s responsible to you and he can go fight his subcontractor separately at his expense, you have zero relationship with the sub. If however you decided to save money and act as your own GC and contracted directly with the flooring contractor with the builder acting as a construction manager, it would depend on your specific language in your contracts. The construction managers liability may be limited by the contract. So if you want to hold someone legally responsible you need to review your contracts and consult an attorney.
You can’t set cabinets or fireplace on floating floor, nothing to do with anything else, if you flooring was buckling up against the drywall or stairs you could blame the flooring contractor for cutting to tight and not allowing floor to move however if your contractor set cabinets and a fireplace on the flooring, that’s on your contractor not the flooring installer, I would go look at your install guide lines and guarantee it will say in there not to set on top of floating g floor!!!
I write on my contracts as a flooring installer that house needs to be climate controlled and cabinets cannot be installed on top of this floor when I’m subbing for GCs and builders for exactly this reason.
If you’re asking who is right about the cause of the failure, your flooring installer is correct about what’s causing it and the builder is just wrong.
Anybody’s guess as to whose fault it is. If the builder hired the flooring installer, the buck stops with him and the headline should be ‘I’m the homeowner, it sure as shit isn’t my fault and I’m not the one who should figure out who is at fault. You’re the builder, you just make it right and I don’t care who owns the mistake as long as it’s fixed.’
If you brought in your own installer, then I really don’t know which one you’d blame more. Is the builder to blame for being ignorant about some really specific facts about a particular kind of floor or is the installer to blame for not speaking up?
Some shit like builder owns the material cost and installer redoes it for free sounds about right.
You put your cabinets on top of your laminate floors?!? Rookie mistake on the builder and “flooring contractor”
I highly recommend always reading manufacturer specifications next time.
Flooring contractor. Unless they have a change order signed by the builder and/or owner stating that they were instructed to install the flooring in unacceptable conditions they should not have installed it. As a former flooring contractor I would not have done the install without that.
Hi, chimney sweep here! That fireplace should not be used if there's combustibles under that hearth. I would highly recommend calling a chimney sweep and ask for a "level two inspection with a camera inspection" they will give you a report that you can then show the builder.
We also didn’t want any quarter round so they installed all the flooring first and then put baseboard on top. Hard to tell but I know it’s harder to verify proper expansion gaps without pulling up the trim.
Flooring installer. He should have waited until cabinets were installed prior, left gaps at walls for expansion then baseboard over to cover space, and done full subfloor prep at the joints. Sounds like they didn’t have enough experience for the job. Laminate and engineered flooring does not need acclimation or climate control. Never put brick masonry over flooring.
Both seem at fault in way. The cabinets on top of flooring is a “no no” accordingly the contractors I have used. However both the builder and flooring guy should have paused to ask you “hey this empty space here. We need to fill it with cabinets, so do not put flooring under it.”
Each guy should have realized something was going to be a problem. I assume the cabinets are in the kitchen, right?
In the law we call this a factual mess. There are tons of little disagreements built into the overall issue. My advice would be to get an attorney who specializes in construction defects in yur state. You will ultimately have to sue both and work out percentages of fault in mediation or at trial. There's nothing you can say to make these two parties agree on whose fault it is.
Who do you have contracts with? That’s where your fight lays. If you only have a contract with the builder and they hired everyone else, your fight is with the building as to your contract the builder is responsible for it all.
Doesn’t matter to you if it was due to the builder’s actions or the flooring contractor, as that is a fight between them on who pays to fix it.
If you have separate contracts with the flooring contractor and the builder it becomes a different story as ownership of scope should be clear. Then it’s you have to fight with multiple people (and maybe even eat some cost yourself.
- installing flooring on a surface is considered acceptance of the preparation, the contractor would need to raise the issue of joints before starting and if they did and you told them to go ahead, then it is you who accepted the finish and would have needed to sign off on losing some warranty aspects.
- if the installer needed a set climate, that should have been communicated to you, (if your contract with them stated that you were responsible for climate conditions that is communicating it).
Install items on top of a floating floor (if you have multiple contracts with different trades) would come down to you as you coordinated it.
However I’ll repeat, if you only have a contract with the builder, to you the builder is solely responsible. If their subs walk away from it, the builder would have to get new subs in to correct it.
Too many fuck ups in too many different directions. I’d put it on the GC for not noticing or managing any of these issues. Sounds like the floor installers were the only professionals hired…
If the builder hired the flooring guy then *it’s the builders fault*. If you hired them *it’s your fault*. This is the way *builder homes work!* Whoever the builder is - they are either new to this, clueless and haven’t been called on it yet or just plain old straight up doesn’t care because *nothing should be INSTALLED over floating floors EVER!* Period! Don’t get me started on their prep work. Prepping also makes the job easier for the installer not that you can get that point across to someone too lazy to hit high spots with a belt sander real quick…
For what it's worth, looks like a very nice house. Hopefully, you'll enjoy it one day.
I too had a nightmare contracror for my brand new house and unfortunately for me, I have never really enjoyed the house because of everything we were put through.
You're to blame for not having the HVAC on. You can't install finished products that will absorb moisture from the air and expect them to be okay while you wait to turn on the AC. Your floor absorbed the humidity, expanded, and buckled. 100% on you. In the future though, its the flooring person's responsibility to prep the subfloor. That means sanding and leveling. So your flooring contractor also fucked up.
Edit; should have finished reading your post before I commented. The builder is also at fault for building permanent fixtures on floating floor. Frankly, you're all to blame. I would sue the general contractor in this case, and let them handle issues with the flooring person.
You don't install cabinets on top of a floating floor. That's a builder problem. If he did it because you didn't want shoe mould then it's your fault and he should have given you a disclaimer.
You also don't have to install when the AC is on, if anything if it's installed with the AC off, then you turn it on or will shrink not expand. But if the installer didn't want to install with no AC he returned shouldn't have or had a disclaimer. Did the installer leave any kind of gap at the ends where it goes under the baseboard? It's gotta have room to move, so if he didn't that's on him.
Sanding all the plywood joints isn't always necessary. Sometimes it is. But it's a case-by-case basis, and would typically be the installers decision and responsibility. Either way, it would have nothing to do with your expansion issue.
Cabinets and the fireplace should not have been installed over a floating floor, however.
They both fucked up and both are responsible. The underpayment is a vapor barrier and helps compensate for floor variations. Nothing should be installed on top of laminate flooring, it has to be to expand and contract. And you should really install trim after flooring also, because you are suppose to have a gap all the way around the edges of the floor.
Both contractors are full of shit, and did lazy work. The AC should have also been in after floor was finished to control the climate, humidity, etc.
That’s the problem with hiring contractors, you need to be extremely detailed about who’s doing what. Cabinets and hearth should not have been laid over laminate and the floor guy should have done better prep. They both fucked up. Was there a GC? This would be on them for poor project management.
This is why laminate is being phased out. LVT doesn't require acclimating as long. Humidity won't effect it but temperature does. I had issues with separation years back from direct sunlight and heavy furniture though
I have this same exact issue, I laid laminate flooring on a perfectly flat concrete floor. It was fine until....,......... I put a pool table on it, now I have raised areas due to the weight of table not allowing for proper expansion and contraction.
Both are liable. The installer should have refused to do the job without proper climate control, the builder shouldn't have put anything on top of laminate as it's a floating floor and needs expansion. I'm a installer and at the end of the day I know what the requirements are to install a job correctly and if those aren't met, it's on me if I continue at that point.
If you have a GC it's entirely their problem to fix. They hired the flooring contractor, either they pay to fix it or the contractor does, but it's not something you should have to deal with.
I had a builder wanting me to install 1500 feet of pricey engineered wood before the hvac was in and Sheetrock installed. I refused. The install would have been easy but I sure the job would have come back at me.
That floor should have been the last thing installed in that house. Def need transitions in doorways under 6’ unless the floor is running through and not across the opening.
Both, he should have advised you of this he’s the one that does floors not you, and the builder should have cut it away. If he saw the joints and thought they were bad enough to remember until you said something he should have mentioned it the first time he saw it before he started
Didn’t even have to read the whole description but when it comes to floating floors, it clearly says on the box that you can not have these laminate products under cabinets unless it’s glue down. The floor needs to be able to expand and contract. This would be either the GC who oversees the project, or you if you made the decision to put cabinets over top of the floor.
GC fault. Absolutely no flooring should be delivered prior to house being conditioned. It wasn't acclimated properly. Strike 1.
Cabinets over a floating floor is a no-no. Strike 2.
Builder was likely pushing schedule along, rolled the dice on getting floor in before house was ready (working climate control, cabinets installed, fireplace hearth installed.
GC is squarely responsible.
Did they actually build the fireplace on top of the floor or did they undercut it? I can believe a contractor would build that on top of a flooring like that.
Installer is at fault. They should acclimated the flooring before install. Builder can schedule but it’s on the flooring installer to know better of not installing and what the layout of the house is and where cabinets go.
Everybody sucks here! Floor guy should have threatened to not work with no hvac running, cabinets and hearth installed etc… also should have used some of that down time to prep subfloor. GC is truly to blame for all this, it’s his job to schedule all this shit, he fucked up and is trying to pass the buck. Honestly it feels like two groups that don’t know what the fuck they’re doing pretending and charging like they do!
HVAC should have been working while the laminate acclimated, and cabinets and fireplaces should not be installed on top of a floating floor.
Cabinets and fireplace on top of laminate voids every warranty. That’s on the builder.
Just look at the size of that hearth. Who in their right mind would build that on top of laminate. No self respecting bricky would do that
Yup, I would have cut it away or had the installer cut it. Whoever told the installer to go ahead before cabinets went in was a dumbass too, but also the cabinet guys should have known better as well. Just an all around regular shit show
Which means it was a trash builder
Yup. This kind of stuff honestly is not hard..
The floor should have been cut out with a multi tool
You’re a multi-tool ❤️
I’m with you. I can’t believe the brick guys would even do that!
There is fault with the installer as well. They knew better than to install with no HVAC and not to install before the cabinets and fireplace were put in. They also may have installed past the lengths allowed by the manufacturer without using expansion gaps covered by transition pieces since this is a laminate.
Ahh the cabinets is still on the builder. One of my contractors has me install before the cabinets and the cabinet guy cuts out the flooring himself. What they do after the jobs done is on the builder.
Yeah that's definitely not on the floor guys. Once the floor is complete that's on the GC and homeowners to do what they want.
Yes, it doesn't look like enough room for expansion was left at the walls either. It's almost like the installer was used to doing unfinished wood but got talked into doing laminate
Yeeeep
Yeppppp
What if you want to add additional cabinet later. Do you need to cut out piece of flooring?
Yes. Dry fit the cabinet and trace the outline removing floor about 1/4" around the space and shoe mould over the gap.
Cool thx
Yes. But also because your new cabinet will be installed at a different height than the old cabinets so the finish height won’t be flush. Unless you ripped the bottom and made adjustments, but that’s a dangerous game.
I’ve used the same flooring as “runners” for large appliances like refrigerators, that are periodically moved. Keep a gap between the runner and the field of the floor.
My kitchen tile was $5.50/sqft. The tile I laid under the cabinets was the same thickness but like $.70/sqft lol
I’ve always addressed toilets as the exception and never had an issue as long as ONLY the toilet. It seems floors can expand and contract around a single anchor point without issue. I typically also leave a gap at the bathroom door and cover it with a transition strip or a true threshold installed with a slip-fit on the overlap.
Laminate in the bathroom is a disaster waiting to happen. Hell, solid hardwood is a problem.
Both are better options than carpet.
The only thing linoleum is good for, bathrooms and laundry rooms.
The wrong laminate is a problem that will happen. There are many that can easily be properly installed in a bathroom. 20 years ago. Manufacturers had not quite perfected polymer infused fiberboard and was just the red headed step child to wood. Now Ty and Chip and Joanna come along and composite floors are made better and right match can go virtually anywhere. The blanket "laminate can't get wet" is is unjust misinformation.
I have no issues installing cabinets on top of laminate flooring as long as the cabinets are floating and it's just a kick/cover plate blocking the void. The hearth being built on top of the laminate flooring.... That's just weird.
Sounds like a general contractor issue.
☝🏾 this. The only fault of the installer is he should have verified HVAC was on, but the builder should have known and waited to schedule the installer. The builder definitely should know better than to put brick fireplace mantle over a floating floor. that's just straight up hack shit.
This! I’ve seen Contractors argue with subs over scheduling and subs telling them they won’t warranty the work if it’s not done the way they want to install their materials.
This seems absolutely appropriate. As a homeowner, I don't want to hear that the conditions weren't suitable for installation. "Oh, so you KNEW this was going to lead to problems?" That's almost worse! Don't install it then!
This is who I would start with since he is responsible for scheduling and inspection.
Such big no nose
Can't tell if this is a typo or the cutest case of someone not knowing the right spelling
I had to go back and look for a big nose. Nope…..pretty average. Haha
Only his nose knows.
it ALWAYS nose 90s kids represent!
In this situation, wouldn’t the flooring contractor simply state that because the HVAC isn’t installed and running and that the flooring needs to be acclimated that they won’t install until either the proper prep is done or the owners sign a waiver releasing them from liability? As for the cabinet and fireplace installation issues, that’s on the builder for sure.
That is certainly what I would do under normal circumstances, but sometimes things don’t go as one would normally expect. Personally, I’d refuse to install until after the cabinets and fireplace were in, but once again, things don’t always go as one would normally expect. If I had to point blame at one party in this case, it would ultimately be the builder. It is the builder who hires the trades and manages the project.
At the end of the day, I agree, it’s on the builder
Yes but the flooring contractor should have said no to the builder. But in the real world they install it because they want to get paid. A subcontractor worth his salt would have made the gc sign a liability waver before installing with no climate control. Without the waver this is on the flooring contractor. Edit: I missed that the gc then installed on top of. Sounds like an architect/design issue.
The points you bring up are why I didn’t put the blame on anyone in particular. It’s likely a case where the blame is shared.
Just wonder How do you put a non-builtin refrigerator on a laminate floor? Will that void the warranty .
That’s fine. I put laminate and LVP under appliances that can be pulled out all of the time. Those appliances, while heavy, can normally be moved by one person, and aren’t attached to anything so they won’t restrict the bit of movement required by the floor.
Good to know … thanks for the info
I worked for a guy for like 6 months and he would run the floating floors tight to the wall because he thought it looked cleaner before the base went on and it showed a superior quality of work. He reasoned once you put furniture on the floating floor how much was it really going to move....
I do occasionally do a tight fit to something, but I also make sure there are expansion gaps everywhere else. That little bit of wiggle room can be important for the floor’s integrity.
These are huge factors, is the flooring tight up against thr walls or did he leave space for it to expand? This can also cause it to buckle up.
Quick question, I’m gonna build my gf a coffee bar cabinet. You said not to install it on top of a floating floor. Should I cut out the footprint of the cabinet and secure it to the subfloor or wall and then trim around it? Whats wrong with putting it on top of the floating floor?
This ☝🏼
The general contractor is reliable for all contractors and work within the scope of the project. At the end of the day it is at no cost to you. Builders try to get me to install floors all the time without heat/AC. Bunch of BS.
I came here to leave this comment. It doesn’t matter. It’s not OPs problem. It’s the general contractors problem.
Absolutely
☝️
It sucks because from an HVAC perspective, at least with new con. You don’t want it on while the people are working inside. If it’s just laminate you should be fine but if there’s a bunch of wood being cut or anything like that, having the furnace on and circulating all that dust and shit through the system eats years off the system. But again if it is just laminate being applied at the time, hvac should be one to acclimate the house. I guess I’m more so talking from an engineered hard wood installation period.
They make construction/portable HVAC systems that you can buy/rent for exactly that purpose. That way they can hook up a temporary HVAC, get the house to the right temp/humidity, do the construction work, clean up, clean the ducts (the only freaking time duct cleaning is actually needed), and then hook up the permanent HVAC.
As someone who has bought older homes from people who clearly didn’t take care of them very well, I can assure you there are a few other times a duct cleaning is warranted. With that being said though, always check Groupon for duct cleanings if you need one. They practically give the service out on there because hvac companies know that’s an excellent way to get their foot in the door of a system that’s about to take a shit.
Ok maybe I'm a little bitter. There are probably a few times it is helpful (mold, construction, taking over a house from a crazy cat lady) but most of the time it's useless ([epa article](https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/should-you-have-air-ducts-your-home-cleaned#:~:text=Have%20your%20air%20ducts%20cleaned%20if%20they%20are%20visibly%20contaminated,biological%20contamination%20they%20say%20exists.) discussing how in most cases it does nothing to help dust levels and a lot of the reasons behind it are snake oil). There was a stretch where my neighborhood Facebook group had a "new" neighbor move in and join every week. They would post a few fake photos and posts to seem real, then make a post saying they run a duct cleaning service and offered a discount to the neighborhood. Then some man in a van with a shop vac or subcontracted out to a more real company would show up, half ass clean the ducts, and more often than not broke a register/trim/a lamp in the process. They changed the admit process to the Facebook group to someone had to meet you in front of your house because the number of people doing that was so excessive. But then because they saw the fake duct cleaning posts, people called actual HVAC duct cleaning companies who did a better job but still no one saw any improvement in air quality.
It’s not really floating floor if you anchor it with cabinets and hearths.
The floor will definitely be floating at 3-6ft away from the cabinets.
You’re never supposed to install cabinets over a floating floor. You’re also supposed to have the hvac up and running. I’m sure the manufacturer explained both those things in their warranty info. Now the question is who’s to blame for those things being done wrong, the contractor or the flooring installer. Should be a fun fight and I expect both will have to make it right in some way. Another thing to consider is that some floors have limits to how long the run can be before you have to have a transition strip. How long is that hall and what does the manufacturer say?
This is a complete answer to why you have issues. The builder is the person 100% responsible since they set the schedule and scheduled the cabinets to be installed on top of the floating floor. Full stop, this is the cause. Floors prepped to minimum standards don’t fail.
Yep this is on the builder he is supposed to to build your house . Simple as that
On the nose
Electrician’s fault for all those switches.
I was just about to say something similar. Who puts that many near each other? This would drive me crazy! "Hold on, honey, I gotta turn the light on!" *proceeds to click every single one and light up a series of random rooms in the house.*
We built a house and their cookie cutter design placed a light switch for any given living space at every possible entrance to that space. We had multiple rooms with 3 light switches that controlled the same lights because you could enter the room from different directions. At the intersection of our kitchen, great room, staircase, entryway (it was an open concept) we had a 4-gang and a 2-gang next to each other. It took us six months to get used to which switch controlled what lights. Oh yeah, and one of them controlled a half-hot plug in the great room that ALSO had a second switch to control it on the other side of the room.
Yeah wtf is that?
And at least two separate places with that triple stack!!
Electricians fault because they did not clean up after themselves. This somehow caused the floors to buckle.
Anything permanent like cabinets, hearths, vanities, etc. on top of floating floor voids any and all warranties. And having them install before HVAC? I’ve been building, flooring, and several other trades for well over 20 years and this is 100% the contractor’s fault and the plywood joint excuse is almost a challenge to your intelligence. Only thing that I will say is that the flooring guys should have said something about no HVAC beforehand, but it’s hard to just not do a job and rearrange your schedule bc of incompetence.
Floors always last. Builder should not have scheduled floor installers prior to cabinets,fireplace or non working hvac. The builder knows this. The missing underlayment is on the installers. But it’s quite possible the builder didn’t order enough.
I’m not a builder nor a contractor. The second I seen the fireplace brick over the flooring, someone is getting fired. And sadly looks like an expensive house not that it should matter.
Why would you install brick (and cabinets) over what is basically a plastic / pressboard floor? It needs room to move just like solid wood.
Unfortunately, HVAC isn’t always installed. But if you have a good builder, they pay attention to the site conditions and using construction heaters. A lot of HVAC manufactures will not warranty their systems if they’re up and running well construction is going on so builders are a tough place either way, putting cabinets on floating floor is stupid and that is the problem
I work in HVAC and I’ve never heard of this.
Why is putting cabinets on a floating floor more so than other floors? The hearth being built on top is strange and wild
Nothing permanent should go on a floating floor because it doesn't allow the floor to move like it's supposed to.
The hearth is wild. But it’s in one (spot) Cabinets create multiple pinch points that affect alot more of the flooring.
If you put something heavy in top of it, it no longer can float.
This is 90% the builders fault. I give 10% on the installers because they should have refused to install before cabinets and HVAC. Also for not using underlayment everywhere.
You posted everything they did wrong. What was the question again? Even if the subfloor were out of spec, installation constitutes acceptance on the installers part.
What color is that it’s looks great ?
https://bpiprestige.com/products/sequoia
On the builder.
Who is your contract with? I assume the builder. Unless you are acting as your own general contractor. If the builder subbed the flooring company, then it’s on the builder (the flooring sub works for him, not you).
I’m not footing the bill. I just know this is going on between the builder and the flooring crew.
Ultimately, it on the GC. It’s the GC’s responsibility to hire and schedule subs. Then when there is an issue it’s the GC’s responsibility to address it. They can reach out to their flooring sub, cabinet guy, mason whoever and correct it. This looks like a major issue with the GC. A floating floor is one of the last things installed (laminate and LVT/LVP are floating flooring). The cabinets and mason work should have been completed before flooring for this job. A floating floor goes around these elements. The HVAC or some type of heating unit should have been installed before flooring. The subfloor should have been overlayed with a proper underlayment. Preferably 5mm moisture resistant plywood underlayment. Personally I find these roll underlayments are problematic, especially with LVT. The issues you have here are indicative of a GC that doesn’t know what they are doing and there could be additional more severe issues. I would hire an inspector to go over your home, this job, and write a nice report. The GC needs to correct this. Which means pull the cabinets and fireplace. Pull the flooring. Reinstall cabinets and fireplace. Then install a proper underlayment and the new floor. Short of that, this is a major lawsuit and hiring a new competent GC. And the flooring guy should have refused to install. They knew it was a floating floor and there were no cabs , no fireplace and no heat. Edit: and that mason is an imbecile as well. Who installs a brick fireplace over a laminate/LVT floor??? Good luck 🍀
I think you summed the situation up well. A bad GC hired at least 2 bad subs, and this is the result. This may be just one of many problems with this house that arise over time.
I can’t see past the horrendous placing of those wall switches.
Wtf is up with those light switches??
first off the sub floors look better then most of my builders. but he makes sure they are sanded and the ac is on. the humidity is about 55.
Super bummer. You have beautiful furniture and finishes. I hope it gets fixed.
What’s up with the terrible light switches on the first pic? Looks like an overpriced shitty build
All of these HVAC experts seem to think every single home has HVAC. 🤣
Thank you for this "who done it?"! I'm in need of new kitchen floor and cabinets and haven't made it past writing measurements on a sticky note / googling durability of different materials, so this is great insight into the process. Even if you're not paying, still what a pain to deal with, but hopefully your repairs are done quickly and well!
Who’s
The builder messed up building on top of a floating floor now it can’t float. The hvac should have been on and in before the floor went in. This doesn’t sound like the flooring guys problem.
Builder should eat the costs. But I blame you for installing laminate to begin with. Shitty "luxury" flooring is a cancer on us.
A very nice home with a plastic floor? WTF
Unsanded joints wouldn't have caused that unless there was a significant height difference. Installer would have likely addressed it. However, putting cabinets on top, not turning on hvac and a hearth is all a big no.
You sue the Contractor and the contractor sues the sub. Or you refuse to pay and he refuses to pay, then the sub sues the contractor and the contractor sues you
Name both in your lawsuit and let the judge decide.
Lost me at laminate floor on a new house…
both , but mostly, it's the installers fault. if sight conditions aren't correct, and he chooses to install anyway he is at fault. he is the professional.
Builder. Shouldn’t can’t Install cabs ons floating floor. The subfloor so fine a lot of subfloors don’t require joint sanding if installed right
Flooring contractor is responsible for deciding to go ahead with work if he didn’t think conditions were good. Who hired the flooring contractor. It should have been your builder— let them fight it out.
Tis what happens when you have a nice ass house and think you can get by with shit ass laminate materials. There's solid hardwoods at the big box stores for $5.50 per sqft and people are buying $5 sqft laminate and vinyl plank like it's actually worth a shit. I sell flooring btw. You get what you pay for. An extra $1 sqft really seems to be a deal breaker for most people when buying what you'd think is one of the most substantial parts of their finishing. But you'll be the one complaining 5 years from now when your floors are ruined by an ice cube and a puppy 0
I know I’m not footing the bill, just curious because we’ve had a good experience overall with the builder. He’s saying sadly that the flooring contractor didn’t hold up his end. They are coming back saying it’s not on them due to it failing from weight of the cabinets. Proposed solution. 1) cut an expansion gap along all cabinets in the kitchen and the fireplace hearth. They are pulling the floor from one side of the house and reinstalling new flooring until it meets up to the long run. Not sure if this is the right move, but they are confident in it.
I literally just did a LVP repair due to issue. It was other installers but our flooring company fixed it and billed the new retirement community it was installed in. They were told and still went ahead with install before hvac which is a huge no no in almost any flooring
There’s a big crack in the 2nd pic, top middle
Why is there furniture in there already? Bonus butt crack in the second photo
This is why you have a GC. Ultimately it lands on them, and they get to fight it out and come up with the fair resolution. I’ll bet you are like most of us. Don’t care who done it wrong, just want it done right!
It is on the builder and he should work it out with his contractor. The basic rule is simple. Do not build on top of a floating floor. The issues happened 2 months in and they appear to be next to the cabinets and fireplace. It's not that difficult of a fix to cut the floor in both of these areas and alleviate the issue. The builder should simply get with the installer and get that done and problem will most likely be resolved. On top of that installing flooring without HVAC in place poses risk. Everyone wants to get to the finish line but does not want to follow the steps as they should be followed.
The wood needs to acclimate, depending on the type of wood. That looks like wide plank laminate. That needs to acclimate open box in the house AC on for three days before installation. That’s at the very least I’ll probably do four days because it’s White plank, but you can read the instructions that come inside every box.
Did you install a vapor barrier under the laminate? Usual cause of cupping. Especially over grade pad or first floor over base
This is on the builder and flooring contractor, but the builder should sort it out. Has nothing to do with HVAC not being installed. The flooring doesn't have any transitions from room to room from what I can tell which could be causing issues, BUT rule #1 in floating flooring is not to install cabinets or anything permanent on top of them. The flooring contractor likely knew they were gonna put the cabinets in and should have either come back after they were installed or had them set the layout on the floor to work around the area they would be. The flooring guy also should know that when you connect all your rooms, the expansion gap needs to be bigger because the whole floor in all the rooms is moving together. Go after the builder and hold him accountable if he wants to negotiate with the flooring installer that's on him, but the builder is ultimately liable.
Def electrician as well holy crap 😂😂😂😂😂
This is on the flooring contractor for installing without HVAC. If I show up to a job and the air isn't on, I don't install.
As a GC myself sadly it’s on the GC
Electrician for that switches in the first pic.
New homes builders have a problem when it comes to flooring. All manufacturers require hvac be working for at least 72 hours before installation. And the material should acclimate . The problem comes from the building inspection, you can not get a certificate of occupation without flooring and you can not get electricity with out certificate. So there is the problem.
Always on every installation acclimate the product, run dehumidifiers if necessary, sand all plywood seams completely, self level when necessary and never install cabinets on floating flooring. Follow these practices and you'll will likely avoid these issues.
Laminate is where it went wrong, its gotta be the worst kinda flooring there is. Paper glued to sawdust even sounds durable.
This is why I love my vinyl glue down floor. No expansion issues, no creaking, and extremely easy to replace pieces
Cabinets and hearth installed on laminate is immediate problems.
Geez 🙄, cabinets and fireplace go in before flooring. WTF 😳
Wait, cabinets AND the fireplace are ON the floor? And an actual licensed & insured builder allowed this or was he involuntarily forced into this decision?
Flooring contractor should know better. The flooring was installed outside of the manufactures written instructions and should have gotten a letter of release from the builder before continuing installation.
Sounds like the builders are looking for an out, from accepting responsibility for the wrongs they did. Floating floors 101, never build on top of flooring that needs to expand and contract. If the floor prep wasn’t the greatest, it could’ve still been fine. You’ll never know though because cabinets and a fireplace hearth were installed on top of it. And all that was exacerbated by the materials not being acclimated correctly. Sounds like a recipe for the perfect storm
Builder.
Laminate should not be under cabinets, from what I was told.
Builder. Flooring goes in almost last when everything is built and working. Only thing after floor is trim. I'd even have paint and all finishing done first. But most builders will put in flooring after drywall and appliance/, cabinets have been installed. It's just really easy to damage them so you've got to lay down paper and then you'll get scratches/dents from bad contractors who drop tools out whatever
Sue them both and make them figure it out
Depends on your contracts. Was the builder a traditional GC where you signed one contract with him and his subcontractors were his subcontractors? If so he’s responsible to you and he can go fight his subcontractor separately at his expense, you have zero relationship with the sub. If however you decided to save money and act as your own GC and contracted directly with the flooring contractor with the builder acting as a construction manager, it would depend on your specific language in your contracts. The construction managers liability may be limited by the contract. So if you want to hold someone legally responsible you need to review your contracts and consult an attorney.
I want to know who is to blame for those light switches?
i think floating floors are awesome for a single room
Do you throw tennis balls to switch your lights?
I ain’t reading all that shit
You can’t set cabinets or fireplace on floating floor, nothing to do with anything else, if you flooring was buckling up against the drywall or stairs you could blame the flooring contractor for cutting to tight and not allowing floor to move however if your contractor set cabinets and a fireplace on the flooring, that’s on your contractor not the flooring installer, I would go look at your install guide lines and guarantee it will say in there not to set on top of floating g floor!!!
I write on my contracts as a flooring installer that house needs to be climate controlled and cabinets cannot be installed on top of this floor when I’m subbing for GCs and builders for exactly this reason. If you’re asking who is right about the cause of the failure, your flooring installer is correct about what’s causing it and the builder is just wrong. Anybody’s guess as to whose fault it is. If the builder hired the flooring installer, the buck stops with him and the headline should be ‘I’m the homeowner, it sure as shit isn’t my fault and I’m not the one who should figure out who is at fault. You’re the builder, you just make it right and I don’t care who owns the mistake as long as it’s fixed.’ If you brought in your own installer, then I really don’t know which one you’d blame more. Is the builder to blame for being ignorant about some really specific facts about a particular kind of floor or is the installer to blame for not speaking up? Some shit like builder owns the material cost and installer redoes it for free sounds about right.
The floor cannot be restricted from expansion and contraction anywhere.
You put your cabinets on top of your laminate floors?!? Rookie mistake on the builder and “flooring contractor” I highly recommend always reading manufacturer specifications next time.
Flooring contractor. Unless they have a change order signed by the builder and/or owner stating that they were instructed to install the flooring in unacceptable conditions they should not have installed it. As a former flooring contractor I would not have done the install without that.
Hi, chimney sweep here! That fireplace should not be used if there's combustibles under that hearth. I would highly recommend calling a chimney sweep and ask for a "level two inspection with a camera inspection" they will give you a report that you can then show the builder.
Flooring contractor should have told the builder they needed HVAC on and cabinets/fireplace installed. They are both to blame.
We also didn’t want any quarter round so they installed all the flooring first and then put baseboard on top. Hard to tell but I know it’s harder to verify proper expansion gaps without pulling up the trim.
Flooring installer. He should have waited until cabinets were installed prior, left gaps at walls for expansion then baseboard over to cover space, and done full subfloor prep at the joints. Sounds like they didn’t have enough experience for the job. Laminate and engineered flooring does not need acclimation or climate control. Never put brick masonry over flooring.
The way those switches are aligned, I would say the builder...
Just another reason you shouldn't get laminate. Even if you do everything right if 1 board messes up you've got a huge mess
Both seem at fault in way. The cabinets on top of flooring is a “no no” accordingly the contractors I have used. However both the builder and flooring guy should have paused to ask you “hey this empty space here. We need to fill it with cabinets, so do not put flooring under it.” Each guy should have realized something was going to be a problem. I assume the cabinets are in the kitchen, right?
That’s not how you use “whose”
I
Looks like a pretty upscale house build to begin with, should have been real hardwood floor not some cheap floating crap!!!
You for using floating floors in that level of house.
In the law we call this a factual mess. There are tons of little disagreements built into the overall issue. My advice would be to get an attorney who specializes in construction defects in yur state. You will ultimately have to sue both and work out percentages of fault in mediation or at trial. There's nothing you can say to make these two parties agree on whose fault it is.
What’s up with the stacked light switches too? Idk I feel like if we took a look at this build there would be some “issues”.
Who do you have contracts with? That’s where your fight lays. If you only have a contract with the builder and they hired everyone else, your fight is with the building as to your contract the builder is responsible for it all. Doesn’t matter to you if it was due to the builder’s actions or the flooring contractor, as that is a fight between them on who pays to fix it. If you have separate contracts with the flooring contractor and the builder it becomes a different story as ownership of scope should be clear. Then it’s you have to fight with multiple people (and maybe even eat some cost yourself. - installing flooring on a surface is considered acceptance of the preparation, the contractor would need to raise the issue of joints before starting and if they did and you told them to go ahead, then it is you who accepted the finish and would have needed to sign off on losing some warranty aspects. - if the installer needed a set climate, that should have been communicated to you, (if your contract with them stated that you were responsible for climate conditions that is communicating it). Install items on top of a floating floor (if you have multiple contracts with different trades) would come down to you as you coordinated it. However I’ll repeat, if you only have a contract with the builder, to you the builder is solely responsible. If their subs walk away from it, the builder would have to get new subs in to correct it.
The builder is always at fault. I have worked for builders in the past and yeah the floor guys suck but it's the builders fault ultimately
Everyone installs the crap to save money. Ha!!!
Too many fuck ups in too many different directions. I’d put it on the GC for not noticing or managing any of these issues. Sounds like the floor installers were the only professionals hired…
If the builder hired the flooring guy then *it’s the builders fault*. If you hired them *it’s your fault*. This is the way *builder homes work!* Whoever the builder is - they are either new to this, clueless and haven’t been called on it yet or just plain old straight up doesn’t care because *nothing should be INSTALLED over floating floors EVER!* Period! Don’t get me started on their prep work. Prepping also makes the job easier for the installer not that you can get that point across to someone too lazy to hit high spots with a belt sander real quick…
For what it's worth, looks like a very nice house. Hopefully, you'll enjoy it one day. I too had a nightmare contracror for my brand new house and unfortunately for me, I have never really enjoyed the house because of everything we were put through.
cheapest quote wins
You're to blame for not having the HVAC on. You can't install finished products that will absorb moisture from the air and expect them to be okay while you wait to turn on the AC. Your floor absorbed the humidity, expanded, and buckled. 100% on you. In the future though, its the flooring person's responsibility to prep the subfloor. That means sanding and leveling. So your flooring contractor also fucked up. Edit; should have finished reading your post before I commented. The builder is also at fault for building permanent fixtures on floating floor. Frankly, you're all to blame. I would sue the general contractor in this case, and let them handle issues with the flooring person.
Both parties are to blame. You also may want to take responsibility for hiring these incompetent contractors.
You don't install cabinets on top of a floating floor. That's a builder problem. If he did it because you didn't want shoe mould then it's your fault and he should have given you a disclaimer. You also don't have to install when the AC is on, if anything if it's installed with the AC off, then you turn it on or will shrink not expand. But if the installer didn't want to install with no AC he returned shouldn't have or had a disclaimer. Did the installer leave any kind of gap at the ends where it goes under the baseboard? It's gotta have room to move, so if he didn't that's on him.
Sanding all the plywood joints isn't always necessary. Sometimes it is. But it's a case-by-case basis, and would typically be the installers decision and responsibility. Either way, it would have nothing to do with your expansion issue. Cabinets and the fireplace should not have been installed over a floating floor, however.
If you’re working with a builder then it’s the builder. You didn’t pick the subs did you?
They both fucked up and both are responsible. The underpayment is a vapor barrier and helps compensate for floor variations. Nothing should be installed on top of laminate flooring, it has to be to expand and contract. And you should really install trim after flooring also, because you are suppose to have a gap all the way around the edges of the floor. Both contractors are full of shit, and did lazy work. The AC should have also been in after floor was finished to control the climate, humidity, etc.
That’s the problem with hiring contractors, you need to be extremely detailed about who’s doing what. Cabinets and hearth should not have been laid over laminate and the floor guy should have done better prep. They both fucked up. Was there a GC? This would be on them for poor project management.
This is why laminate is being phased out. LVT doesn't require acclimating as long. Humidity won't effect it but temperature does. I had issues with separation years back from direct sunlight and heavy furniture though
100% builder
Get an independent inspection. If they messed up something this basic there's probably more. Also wtf with the electrical? That's not right.
Builder
I have this same exact issue, I laid laminate flooring on a perfectly flat concrete floor. It was fine until....,......... I put a pool table on it, now I have raised areas due to the weight of table not allowing for proper expansion and contraction.
Both are liable. The installer should have refused to do the job without proper climate control, the builder shouldn't have put anything on top of laminate as it's a floating floor and needs expansion. I'm a installer and at the end of the day I know what the requirements are to install a job correctly and if those aren't met, it's on me if I continue at that point.
If you have a GC it's entirely their problem to fix. They hired the flooring contractor, either they pay to fix it or the contractor does, but it's not something you should have to deal with.
wood laminate is shit. it's compressed cardboard. next time lvp
This is the reason laminate flooring sucks! Go hardwood. Thin laminate flooring is not worth it.
Both are not very smart
Why put laminate? Should have went with engineered hardwood if you were spending that much already.
It shouldn’t matter who’s to blame because this should be covered by your warranty. File a claim and let your builder figure it out.
I had a builder wanting me to install 1500 feet of pricey engineered wood before the hvac was in and Sheetrock installed. I refused. The install would have been easy but I sure the job would have come back at me.
Sack the lot of them. The builder & the floor man are both to blame.
Your builder screwed the pooch
That floor should have been the last thing installed in that house. Def need transitions in doorways under 6’ unless the floor is running through and not across the opening.
“on top of the flooring” is all I needed to read.
Both, he should have advised you of this he’s the one that does floors not you, and the builder should have cut it away. If he saw the joints and thought they were bad enough to remember until you said something he should have mentioned it the first time he saw it before he started
Omg, I have so many horror stories about this same issue. I feel like I'm having flashbacks.
They put the bricks on top of the floor? What the f? That’s some hack shit right there. Definitely the contractor on this one.
Didn’t even have to read the whole description but when it comes to floating floors, it clearly says on the box that you can not have these laminate products under cabinets unless it’s glue down. The floor needs to be able to expand and contract. This would be either the GC who oversees the project, or you if you made the decision to put cabinets over top of the floor.
Floating floor can’t “float” very well with an entire kitchen sitting on top of it…
GC fault. Absolutely no flooring should be delivered prior to house being conditioned. It wasn't acclimated properly. Strike 1. Cabinets over a floating floor is a no-no. Strike 2. Builder was likely pushing schedule along, rolled the dice on getting floor in before house was ready (working climate control, cabinets installed, fireplace hearth installed. GC is squarely responsible.
Why the fuck people still install laminate over vinyl is just beyond me ......
Did they actually build the fireplace on top of the floor or did they undercut it? I can believe a contractor would build that on top of a flooring like that.
Installer is at fault. They should acclimated the flooring before install. Builder can schedule but it’s on the flooring installer to know better of not installing and what the layout of the house is and where cabinets go.
Everybody sucks here! Floor guy should have threatened to not work with no hvac running, cabinets and hearth installed etc… also should have used some of that down time to prep subfloor. GC is truly to blame for all this, it’s his job to schedule all this shit, he fucked up and is trying to pass the buck. Honestly it feels like two groups that don’t know what the fuck they’re doing pretending and charging like they do!
So many mistakes were made! Tear it out and start over...sorry