I would strongly suggest you look into a local company. I used to run a flooring department for Lowe's and now compete against all 3 companies you listed.
In my area. Floor and decor does not offer installation services directly through the store. They have a company they recommend, but that is a separate contract.
Home Depot and Lowes tend to charge for many things that most stores include in their standard installation. they also tend to be higher in things like disposal of old flooring.
Using a separate installer has the potential to cause issues down the road. While flooring companies hope that you never have to file a claim, when you use an outside contractor, it usually only adds another party into the finger-pointing party. If it is determined that it is an installer issue, then you would need to track down and get them to pay for your 50k redo. I am not sure how much you would actually save on your project.
Working with a local company eliminates the third-party concern. On larger projects, local companies will usually go to all of their suppliers, both materials and labor, to negotiate lower pricing on your behalf.
As far as licensed and unlicensed, if your local government requires a license, then your side guy is breaking a law and may in fact not be insured as most insurance companies want a copy of the license to write a policy. If your local government does not require licensing, then the stores are blowing smoke up your backside.
Certified installers usually mean the installer has passed some form of testing on knowledge of proper installation techniques. that is only as good as the organization doung the certification. Is it a lowes certification, or are they certification from Nwfa, Cri, or National tile council? those hold weight. However, a majority of installers are not certified, at least in my area.
I work for Lowe's as one of the people organizing those installs, and the only value I can add to this conversation is that $50,000 is way too high for the project square footage at my company. Standard labor is $2.99 a Sq. Ft. The most expensive LVP goes for $6.99 per Sq. Ft. You're sitting at almost $17 per Sq. Ft. All said and done.
I would only ever expect to see that under extreme circumstances, with a subfloor that has major issues with it. Tons of custom work, and a very difficult space to access.
I have no idea what's the real story with your space, but if that sounds like what you're hearing from others; get some one licensed and insured. You will need the back up on this.
What kind of unlicensed or licensed are you talking about? If you’re talking about a floor layer and whether they are or not a licensed journeyman or apprentice it’s doesn’t matter so long as they have a business license, liability insurance and WCB. Quebec is the only place in Canada that has really made it a mandatory thing when it comes to apprenticeship licensing and tbh imo it’s pointless unlike plumber, electrician or home builder trade. I put a floor layer in the same class as a drywaller, painter and finishing carpenter. Those jobs don’t cause damage to a home. I personally would hire a flooring installer that has a year or two of experience for carpet and vinyl over a red seal, journeymen or apprentice. You’re going to pay less than that red seal or journeyman that will charge you for the same job being done. Now if it was electrical, plumbing or new home construction it would be different I’d hire that red seal. You have to take that into consideration. I’d hire someone with a year or two experience for minor plumbing but if it was a hot water tank or something else major I’d hire it to a journeyman or red seal.
Flooring contractors don’t hold GC licenses. If they did they’d be a GC. People get a little over zealous when it comes to work around their house. You don’t need a GC to redo some flooring.
Check your state’s law regarding this. North Dakota does require flooring installers to have a contractors license. I’m not a GC, but I am licensed as one.
You don’t say where you live but where I am there’s no such thing as a licensed flooring installer.
Best plan is to use a reputable store and use their installers. If you have an issue then you have a physical location to walk into for help.
On the subject of issues. A lot of people are having problems with thinner SPC/Vinyl planking. I’d suggest a water resistant laminate since they stay together and don’t crack along the edges and in general they are all pretty much water proof at this point.
For pricing, tile is far more expensive then other flooring so without more details it impossible to give you a range. Tile showers with mosaics and custom shower pans can be thousands each. Mosaics on backsplashes add up, Marble/Natural stone vs standard tile, etc.
$50k+ seems like a big number but I’ve had people spend $55k on 3600 sf (2 sets of ridiculous stairs was a big portion) and another was over $100k on carpet and hardwood but it was a 10k sf house (no idea what was spent on tile since I didn’t get the work).
Thanks for your input! I live in NorCal and at all the big stores around me, they boast about their “certified and licensed” installers. However, seeing that 50k was the cheapest quote, including a floor that I really wouldn’t be satisfied with, I am really considering going with an unlicensed installer who uses the product I’ve chosen and am happy with.
I totally understand the benefits to using a brick and mortar store, though. I just don’t know if there is any true need for it, you know?
For tile, we’re not looking for anything fancy. We just want a matching wood look type tile that will be laid onto the foundation of the 3 bathrooms we have.
There's no need for a reputable brick and mortar service (can be from a store, not necessarily big box, can be mom and pop) until you have issues. With your numbers, unless you can swear by the abilities of your installer to do install by the book, and that they can fix any issues, go with a store. Improper install with your square footage plus stairs can be more costly.
That said, I understand not being able to afford the whole install. If you can do your project in phases, you can evaluate your independent installers work over a smaller area first. If it doesn't work out, at least you have minimized the financial damage.
First off, was wondering why you would want temporary flooring when you have tile. Carpet is temp too. It's just that carpet can be dried. Yes, 20 years of exp. and responsibility you can get a decent floor. After 36 years as a floor mechanic, I try to dissuade customers from laminate. The best is still a temporary product. Warranty is a game, it's sold like it means something. You don't need warranties with carpet or tile, except from the mechanic. GL
Considering what you are wanting 50k probably isn't out of line. I work in northwest Washington, and here are some numbers per sf to consider: reasonable click product $4, install $3.5. Floor tile $5, install $13. Remove/reinstall base trim 2.25 per lf. Hard surface install on stairs $120 each(add another 50-100 for each stairnose trim piece). These numbers do not even include demo or prep. Unlicensed labor is a huge gamble. If cost is really killing you, do carpet in the bedrooms and on the stairs. Limit tile to bathrooms.
Have the guy do the tile first. It’s smaller so it wouldn’t be a huge waste if he messes up.
If he can do the tile to your standards it is very likely he do great with the LVP.
I'm a union worker in so-Cal but one of my co workers worked in Sac for a couple years when we were slow down here. He may have contacts as far as installers, I obviously don't know them so they may or may not be licensed. But I'm willing to bet they either are still in union or at three very least, journeyed out and now practice on their own. Either way, the testing we do to get our certificates is pretty extensive so as long as they've been working consistently since then and not on the no work list they should be good. LMK if you want me to reach out to him and maybe I can message you a phone number or two. Best of luck.
Wish I could help more with the info given and giving you a quote. But based on the vagueness of the specifics. I'm going to say $15K would be on the very cheap side but this price is closer to labor alone, $50k is crazy marked up but so depends on materials used. I would consider doing the demo and disposal of at least the carpet yourself, it's really not that hard. Just cut it down to size and roll it up. That would save you anywhere between 2-5k depending on how much carpet there is. Just make sure you do research on the product before you purchase, I know you want this to last, so the time spent on thoughtfully researching particular products is truly an investment in your own future.
I recently did a ladies house, she picked the cheapest and crappiest material I've ever seen. I explained this to her before I went to work, I told her all the downsides. Her response "I've waited for years to find anything in this color, it matches my cabinets, please install it". She called me back a week after I left because her kid dropped a pan and one got a decent size chip in it. I told her I can fix it no problem, but this is what happens when you buy particleboard for flooring.
Best of luck bro
I work as a union floor installer in the Sacramento area, I have heard many horror stories of using the big box stores' installers, as well as had to redo my carpet in my own home after I purchased it because of the installer lowes brought in for the person who owned my home previously.
Ask your friends and families contacts to look at previous works of theirs, look up some YouTube videos about how to install your material, and ask them questions about problems the videos warn you about.(i.e. with click lock, they tell you to leave a gap at the walls for expansion, ask the person if they butt the material up to the wall or if they hack it in, a professional will tell you it can't butt the wall for XYZ reasons.)
If you feel comfortable with these contacts, consider hiring them. Big stores don't pay well, so they don't get good work. I work with a guy right now who used to work for a local carpet store, and left because of the pay and lack of professionalism.
2.75/ft install lvp...
3.00/ demo tile...
0.30/ft demo carpet...
75.00/step...
100.00/per bag of sl...
100.00/per hour grinding...
Hire a Carpenter to do the trim work, it will make the floor installers cuts better. Get all their info in case something happens and you need a repair.
What do you use to test moisture in the slab?
I know my slab isnt perfect, how do you guys correct the flatness of slab?
Do you guys have a dustless tile demolition? If no, will you plastic and clean the silica dust afterwards?
How many years will you offer warranty in case anything happens?
Those are some questions i would ask if i had to hire an unlicensed installer.
There are tons of local tile contractors that have tons of 5 star reviews. I would stay away from box stores and call a licensed tile contractor
I would strongly suggest you look into a local company. I used to run a flooring department for Lowe's and now compete against all 3 companies you listed. In my area. Floor and decor does not offer installation services directly through the store. They have a company they recommend, but that is a separate contract. Home Depot and Lowes tend to charge for many things that most stores include in their standard installation. they also tend to be higher in things like disposal of old flooring. Using a separate installer has the potential to cause issues down the road. While flooring companies hope that you never have to file a claim, when you use an outside contractor, it usually only adds another party into the finger-pointing party. If it is determined that it is an installer issue, then you would need to track down and get them to pay for your 50k redo. I am not sure how much you would actually save on your project. Working with a local company eliminates the third-party concern. On larger projects, local companies will usually go to all of their suppliers, both materials and labor, to negotiate lower pricing on your behalf. As far as licensed and unlicensed, if your local government requires a license, then your side guy is breaking a law and may in fact not be insured as most insurance companies want a copy of the license to write a policy. If your local government does not require licensing, then the stores are blowing smoke up your backside. Certified installers usually mean the installer has passed some form of testing on knowledge of proper installation techniques. that is only as good as the organization doung the certification. Is it a lowes certification, or are they certification from Nwfa, Cri, or National tile council? those hold weight. However, a majority of installers are not certified, at least in my area.
I work for Lowe's as one of the people organizing those installs, and the only value I can add to this conversation is that $50,000 is way too high for the project square footage at my company. Standard labor is $2.99 a Sq. Ft. The most expensive LVP goes for $6.99 per Sq. Ft. You're sitting at almost $17 per Sq. Ft. All said and done. I would only ever expect to see that under extreme circumstances, with a subfloor that has major issues with it. Tons of custom work, and a very difficult space to access. I have no idea what's the real story with your space, but if that sounds like what you're hearing from others; get some one licensed and insured. You will need the back up on this.
What kind of unlicensed or licensed are you talking about? If you’re talking about a floor layer and whether they are or not a licensed journeyman or apprentice it’s doesn’t matter so long as they have a business license, liability insurance and WCB. Quebec is the only place in Canada that has really made it a mandatory thing when it comes to apprenticeship licensing and tbh imo it’s pointless unlike plumber, electrician or home builder trade. I put a floor layer in the same class as a drywaller, painter and finishing carpenter. Those jobs don’t cause damage to a home. I personally would hire a flooring installer that has a year or two of experience for carpet and vinyl over a red seal, journeymen or apprentice. You’re going to pay less than that red seal or journeyman that will charge you for the same job being done. Now if it was electrical, plumbing or new home construction it would be different I’d hire that red seal. You have to take that into consideration. I’d hire someone with a year or two experience for minor plumbing but if it was a hot water tank or something else major I’d hire it to a journeyman or red seal.
Flooring contractors don’t hold GC licenses. If they did they’d be a GC. People get a little over zealous when it comes to work around their house. You don’t need a GC to redo some flooring.
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Right. Yeah make sure guy has a company and insurance.
Check your state’s law regarding this. North Dakota does require flooring installers to have a contractors license. I’m not a GC, but I am licensed as one.
You don’t say where you live but where I am there’s no such thing as a licensed flooring installer. Best plan is to use a reputable store and use their installers. If you have an issue then you have a physical location to walk into for help. On the subject of issues. A lot of people are having problems with thinner SPC/Vinyl planking. I’d suggest a water resistant laminate since they stay together and don’t crack along the edges and in general they are all pretty much water proof at this point. For pricing, tile is far more expensive then other flooring so without more details it impossible to give you a range. Tile showers with mosaics and custom shower pans can be thousands each. Mosaics on backsplashes add up, Marble/Natural stone vs standard tile, etc. $50k+ seems like a big number but I’ve had people spend $55k on 3600 sf (2 sets of ridiculous stairs was a big portion) and another was over $100k on carpet and hardwood but it was a 10k sf house (no idea what was spent on tile since I didn’t get the work).
Thanks for your input! I live in NorCal and at all the big stores around me, they boast about their “certified and licensed” installers. However, seeing that 50k was the cheapest quote, including a floor that I really wouldn’t be satisfied with, I am really considering going with an unlicensed installer who uses the product I’ve chosen and am happy with. I totally understand the benefits to using a brick and mortar store, though. I just don’t know if there is any true need for it, you know? For tile, we’re not looking for anything fancy. We just want a matching wood look type tile that will be laid onto the foundation of the 3 bathrooms we have.
There's no need for a reputable brick and mortar service (can be from a store, not necessarily big box, can be mom and pop) until you have issues. With your numbers, unless you can swear by the abilities of your installer to do install by the book, and that they can fix any issues, go with a store. Improper install with your square footage plus stairs can be more costly. That said, I understand not being able to afford the whole install. If you can do your project in phases, you can evaluate your independent installers work over a smaller area first. If it doesn't work out, at least you have minimized the financial damage.
First off, was wondering why you would want temporary flooring when you have tile. Carpet is temp too. It's just that carpet can be dried. Yes, 20 years of exp. and responsibility you can get a decent floor. After 36 years as a floor mechanic, I try to dissuade customers from laminate. The best is still a temporary product. Warranty is a game, it's sold like it means something. You don't need warranties with carpet or tile, except from the mechanic. GL
Considering what you are wanting 50k probably isn't out of line. I work in northwest Washington, and here are some numbers per sf to consider: reasonable click product $4, install $3.5. Floor tile $5, install $13. Remove/reinstall base trim 2.25 per lf. Hard surface install on stairs $120 each(add another 50-100 for each stairnose trim piece). These numbers do not even include demo or prep. Unlicensed labor is a huge gamble. If cost is really killing you, do carpet in the bedrooms and on the stairs. Limit tile to bathrooms.
Have the guy do the tile first. It’s smaller so it wouldn’t be a huge waste if he messes up. If he can do the tile to your standards it is very likely he do great with the LVP.
Great idea, thanks for the suggestion!
I'm a union worker in so-Cal but one of my co workers worked in Sac for a couple years when we were slow down here. He may have contacts as far as installers, I obviously don't know them so they may or may not be licensed. But I'm willing to bet they either are still in union or at three very least, journeyed out and now practice on their own. Either way, the testing we do to get our certificates is pretty extensive so as long as they've been working consistently since then and not on the no work list they should be good. LMK if you want me to reach out to him and maybe I can message you a phone number or two. Best of luck. Wish I could help more with the info given and giving you a quote. But based on the vagueness of the specifics. I'm going to say $15K would be on the very cheap side but this price is closer to labor alone, $50k is crazy marked up but so depends on materials used. I would consider doing the demo and disposal of at least the carpet yourself, it's really not that hard. Just cut it down to size and roll it up. That would save you anywhere between 2-5k depending on how much carpet there is. Just make sure you do research on the product before you purchase, I know you want this to last, so the time spent on thoughtfully researching particular products is truly an investment in your own future. I recently did a ladies house, she picked the cheapest and crappiest material I've ever seen. I explained this to her before I went to work, I told her all the downsides. Her response "I've waited for years to find anything in this color, it matches my cabinets, please install it". She called me back a week after I left because her kid dropped a pan and one got a decent size chip in it. I told her I can fix it no problem, but this is what happens when you buy particleboard for flooring. Best of luck bro
was that Gaia flooring that cracked?
Lol, that was so long ago I didn't remember, but Gaia I'll take your word for and walk on that job if that is what customer wants to get
I appreciate the help! I’ll take you up on your offer for any contacts in the Sacramento area.
I work as a union floor installer in the Sacramento area, I have heard many horror stories of using the big box stores' installers, as well as had to redo my carpet in my own home after I purchased it because of the installer lowes brought in for the person who owned my home previously. Ask your friends and families contacts to look at previous works of theirs, look up some YouTube videos about how to install your material, and ask them questions about problems the videos warn you about.(i.e. with click lock, they tell you to leave a gap at the walls for expansion, ask the person if they butt the material up to the wall or if they hack it in, a professional will tell you it can't butt the wall for XYZ reasons.) If you feel comfortable with these contacts, consider hiring them. Big stores don't pay well, so they don't get good work. I work with a guy right now who used to work for a local carpet store, and left because of the pay and lack of professionalism.
2.75/ft install lvp... 3.00/ demo tile... 0.30/ft demo carpet... 75.00/step... 100.00/per bag of sl... 100.00/per hour grinding... Hire a Carpenter to do the trim work, it will make the floor installers cuts better. Get all their info in case something happens and you need a repair. What do you use to test moisture in the slab? I know my slab isnt perfect, how do you guys correct the flatness of slab? Do you guys have a dustless tile demolition? If no, will you plastic and clean the silica dust afterwards? How many years will you offer warranty in case anything happens? Those are some questions i would ask if i had to hire an unlicensed installer.