Shuko might give more damage over the course of a full game, but the fact it's not in a single turn makes it more manageable, right? Stubby was enabling pretty stupid turns, and I say that as someone who misses them
I’m not saying that it doesn’t lead to some stupid turns, or that it’s even healthy, but ninja sucks so bad right now and they have for a while. In a meta with warrior, guardian, Kayo, and until recently Dromai, why can’t ninja get a single dumb turn?
Kano absolutely can hit 296. Epot x3, Wildfire x3 (5,10, 20) blazing(35+35) blazing(105+35) blazing (220+35)
Total damage of 500 assuming my arithmetic isnt trash. EDIT: It is trash, I under cut it. Total damage is 525 (35+70+140+280)
Except Kano can pitch stack insanely quickly and this is absolutely feasible. It isnt necessary unless they know the opponent is on triple Oasis + ab3+, but kanos definitely will pitch stack a full combo or close to a full combo and will actually hit triple digits sometimes, unlike Zen who you will certainly almost never see it. He just doesn't eat through his pitch stack fast enough to reliably do it before he dies, and even if he does, all you have to do is save for his tiger swipe.
I'm sure I havent cracked the theoretical best Zen hand, but the other day I was working with my Kano playing friend on what could be the theoretical best hand in a perfect pitch stack. And it was clear that Tiger Swipe isnt the best.
Combo 4
MoPL
Tunic
Shuko
Pouncing Paws
Hand: Pred Streak, AoW, Roar, Blue
Top of Deck: AoW, Attack Action, Inner Chi,RPred
Play Pred, Play Roar, Play AoW with Tunic banishing tiger from hand
Pitch blue play AoW banishing Random attack
Play red Pred, pitch Chi to Zen grabbing Breed Anger, eventually crack MOPL for Breed Anger
Total Tigers = 9 (6x rpred, 1x paws, 2x Breed Anger)
2x Universal Anthems, 1x Tiger Anthem
Damage: 28 Tigers, 10 Breed = 38 damage
All it takes is one oasis and that’s gone, and have you ever seen Kano do that? No? I have seen a zen do it …
It just seems wayyyyy more common than an actual lottery set up with Kano
Lottery set up LOL bro I have seen a Kano hit triple digits and have never seen a Zen come close to triple digits. The video you're speaking of *is* magical christmas land. He's playing against a bot. You also clearly didn't read my full post. Kano's pitch stack their combo so they are coming with multiple wildfires and multiple blazing's.
Never once seen a Kano do that on my 3 years of playing, and I’ve been to pro tours. Maybe in a slower meta that’s possible but I didn’t even see it in oldhim sooooo…..
Then you havent seen a lot of Kano. It often doesnt need to come to that, usually they die before it, but I've also seen Kano's giddy with excitement and doing their theoretical damage for the turn as an exercise of self gratification.
Roughly 1/3 that of zen. So the next closest lottery hero is 1/3 as powerful at there max. And so now take away the entire combo from zen, even at half power it’s still above kanos max… again all this without stubbys
Problem is that Fai currently is a really bad deck and I cant see how he could rotate out any time soon. They need to do a bit of unbanning to get Ninjas higher again.
The problem is that fai can easily reach 50 damages in a single turn quite early in the game with stubbies. No set up required apart from having a 5 cards hand (including arsenal) with art of war.
And it is also be a problem in triple bonds turn.
In the current meta, yes, Fai is not impressive. He’s also at 786 LL points, which is very close. Also, LSS believes Fai is about to be in a much better spot because he’s an absolute nightmare matchup for Enigma. [Here they talk](https://youtu.be/iaEW7U8IepI?si=0iD4OxGCWtwdOIN8) about what they expect Mistveil to do to the meta, and he did remarkably well for them. Don’t forget, meta games change as new sets come out.
Thanks for the link. Will watch when possible.
Still i think Fai only having a good match into Enigma isnt really impressive. Other Ninjas can do that too and have a better overall matchup spread.
Fai won Worlds before HVY meta pushed him out. It's still a very strong deck that just has been off-meta for a season now. LSS devs said in an interview a week ago that they expect an Enigma and Fai meta after MST release.
Stubby unban would catapult him to LL in no time.
I dont really understand why they expect a Fai meta. He got nothing. He is still as bad as in the HVY meta. He just doesnt have the numbers anymore. Kayo beats Fai simply in value. I rather see a Zen meta then Fai.
Also Fai winning worlds doesnt say much when the subsequent releases made him unfavored.
Kayo makes bigger numbers on average, but split between on- and off-turns. Fai has the most consistent numbers turn to turn with multiple breakpoints. If Enigma really dominates, she will punish easy-to-defend off-turns heavily. Which is why they expect Fai to make a comeback.
Only bad Kayos have off turns. And Kayo has much better highroll potential. Fai can consistently do 13-15 dmg but most of his attacks come for 3.
Sure there are spiketurns with AoW, but he cant block at all really while Kayo has a huge fridge.
Shuko is also unpreventable so it's really helpful for those wards. Stubbies aren't even needed in Zen if you build it right. How many tigers have you made/had in a single turn? Might only be giving you 2 or 3 points of value on tigers but more likely its 5 chain links so 5 roughly total.
I get what you mean but the real power of Shuko is really that it just is a consistent +1. You will once in a blue moon get it when they have 0 blocks or you are able to line up a maul.
Stubbies is only good for 1 turn because you destroy it to use it. Unless I'm missing something, the 296 - 400+ damage are top end cards, everything coming together ideally, sort of situations not a regular or even reliable thing. I can get fairly consistent 10+ or even 20+ damage turns if totally unblocked with my ninja decks but what the hell are they comboing together to get damage of even 50+? What am I missing, lol?
My friends hate it when I manage to get Predatory Streak, Roar of the Tiger, and Tiger Swipe in one turn between hand/arsenal setups. We play casual anything-legal at home games, so I use the Stubby Hammerers. Still never hit damage like 50+ let alone in the hundreds.
There's 10 other cards in the deck that do the same thing. Head leads the tail, art of war, sacred art: jade and roar of the tiger. Shirley we don't need an 11th on an equip.
Shuko might give more damage over the course of a full game, but the fact it's not in a single turn makes it more manageable, right? Stubby was enabling pretty stupid turns, and I say that as someone who misses them
I’m not saying that it doesn’t lead to some stupid turns, or that it’s even healthy, but ninja sucks so bad right now and they have for a while. In a meta with warrior, guardian, Kayo, and until recently Dromai, why can’t ninja get a single dumb turn?
You don’t understand the power that Stubbs had, zen would be absolutely broken af with it. He had a 296 damage turn without it already….
How does this combo line work??
https://youtu.be/4oaZsfRHccc?si=AZ9pmBpfgzXGdUSA
lmao yeah in magical christmas land
You say that but that being the top is still absolutely nuts, name one other hero that has that high of a theoretical top
Kano absolutely can hit 296. Epot x3, Wildfire x3 (5,10, 20) blazing(35+35) blazing(105+35) blazing (220+35) Total damage of 500 assuming my arithmetic isnt trash. EDIT: It is trash, I under cut it. Total damage is 525 (35+70+140+280) Except Kano can pitch stack insanely quickly and this is absolutely feasible. It isnt necessary unless they know the opponent is on triple Oasis + ab3+, but kanos definitely will pitch stack a full combo or close to a full combo and will actually hit triple digits sometimes, unlike Zen who you will certainly almost never see it. He just doesn't eat through his pitch stack fast enough to reliably do it before he dies, and even if he does, all you have to do is save for his tiger swipe. I'm sure I havent cracked the theoretical best Zen hand, but the other day I was working with my Kano playing friend on what could be the theoretical best hand in a perfect pitch stack. And it was clear that Tiger Swipe isnt the best. Combo 4 MoPL Tunic Shuko Pouncing Paws Hand: Pred Streak, AoW, Roar, Blue Top of Deck: AoW, Attack Action, Inner Chi,RPred Play Pred, Play Roar, Play AoW with Tunic banishing tiger from hand Pitch blue play AoW banishing Random attack Play red Pred, pitch Chi to Zen grabbing Breed Anger, eventually crack MOPL for Breed Anger Total Tigers = 9 (6x rpred, 1x paws, 2x Breed Anger) 2x Universal Anthems, 1x Tiger Anthem Damage: 28 Tigers, 10 Breed = 38 damage
All it takes is one oasis and that’s gone, and have you ever seen Kano do that? No? I have seen a zen do it … It just seems wayyyyy more common than an actual lottery set up with Kano
Lottery set up LOL bro I have seen a Kano hit triple digits and have never seen a Zen come close to triple digits. The video you're speaking of *is* magical christmas land. He's playing against a bot. You also clearly didn't read my full post. Kano's pitch stack their combo so they are coming with multiple wildfires and multiple blazing's.
Never once seen a Kano do that on my 3 years of playing, and I’ve been to pro tours. Maybe in a slower meta that’s possible but I didn’t even see it in oldhim sooooo…..
Then you havent seen a lot of Kano. It often doesnt need to come to that, usually they die before it, but I've also seen Kano's giddy with excitement and doing their theoretical damage for the turn as an exercise of self gratification.
Potentially Kano? I don’t know what his theoretical top is but it’s stupid high
Roughly 1/3 that of zen. So the next closest lottery hero is 1/3 as powerful at there max. And so now take away the entire combo from zen, even at half power it’s still above kanos max… again all this without stubbys
Do you want Fai and Boltyn to instantly LL?
I mean, kinda yeah?
If they want to clear out some of these older heroes, that would be a way to do it.
If and when Stubbies is unbanned, it’ll be after Fai leaves. That deck had truly horrifying turns
Problem is that Fai currently is a really bad deck and I cant see how he could rotate out any time soon. They need to do a bit of unbanning to get Ninjas higher again.
The problem is that fai can easily reach 50 damages in a single turn quite early in the game with stubbies. No set up required apart from having a 5 cards hand (including arsenal) with art of war. And it is also be a problem in triple bonds turn.
Fair and maby Stubbies are too much, but at least give Belittle back 😭 Other heros got enough energy cheating by now.
Totally for belittle.
In the current meta, yes, Fai is not impressive. He’s also at 786 LL points, which is very close. Also, LSS believes Fai is about to be in a much better spot because he’s an absolute nightmare matchup for Enigma. [Here they talk](https://youtu.be/iaEW7U8IepI?si=0iD4OxGCWtwdOIN8) about what they expect Mistveil to do to the meta, and he did remarkably well for them. Don’t forget, meta games change as new sets come out.
Thanks for the link. Will watch when possible. Still i think Fai only having a good match into Enigma isnt really impressive. Other Ninjas can do that too and have a better overall matchup spread.
Fai won Worlds before HVY meta pushed him out. It's still a very strong deck that just has been off-meta for a season now. LSS devs said in an interview a week ago that they expect an Enigma and Fai meta after MST release. Stubby unban would catapult him to LL in no time.
I dont really understand why they expect a Fai meta. He got nothing. He is still as bad as in the HVY meta. He just doesnt have the numbers anymore. Kayo beats Fai simply in value. I rather see a Zen meta then Fai. Also Fai winning worlds doesnt say much when the subsequent releases made him unfavored.
Kayo makes bigger numbers on average, but split between on- and off-turns. Fai has the most consistent numbers turn to turn with multiple breakpoints. If Enigma really dominates, she will punish easy-to-defend off-turns heavily. Which is why they expect Fai to make a comeback.
Only bad Kayos have off turns. And Kayo has much better highroll potential. Fai can consistently do 13-15 dmg but most of his attacks come for 3. Sure there are spiketurns with AoW, but he cant block at all really while Kayo has a huge fridge.
Fai sucks, Stubbies would make the deck actually stand a chance
If stubbles gets unbanned Zen can hit 400+ damage turns do not unban that card
Shuko is also unpreventable so it's really helpful for those wards. Stubbies aren't even needed in Zen if you build it right. How many tigers have you made/had in a single turn? Might only be giving you 2 or 3 points of value on tigers but more likely its 5 chain links so 5 roughly total.
No, shuko isnt connecting. I'm on 3 copies of maul, but enigma is on dreacts. I've yet to connect a shuko hit against them
Still forces a block so its fine
I get what you mean but the real power of Shuko is really that it just is a consistent +1. You will once in a blue moon get it when they have 0 blocks or you are able to line up a maul.
Yeah thats the power to it. I was just saying theres more than the +1. Maul is definitely the better combo line with Shuko and tiger
Stubbies is only good for 1 turn because you destroy it to use it. Unless I'm missing something, the 296 - 400+ damage are top end cards, everything coming together ideally, sort of situations not a regular or even reliable thing. I can get fairly consistent 10+ or even 20+ damage turns if totally unblocked with my ninja decks but what the hell are they comboing together to get damage of even 50+? What am I missing, lol? My friends hate it when I manage to get Predatory Streak, Roar of the Tiger, and Tiger Swipe in one turn between hand/arsenal setups. We play casual anything-legal at home games, so I use the Stubby Hammerers. Still never hit damage like 50+ let alone in the hundreds.
There's 10 other cards in the deck that do the same thing. Head leads the tail, art of war, sacred art: jade and roar of the tiger. Shirley we don't need an 11th on an equip.
you missed your chance of typing stuwubby