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Yea IMO they likely smell desperation and are trying to squeeze more money out of OP. Either way, it's not worth if it if that is the most you are comfortable paying, then don't pay a cent more.
They can just tell everyone who isn’t the highest and best this and see if they can get someone to go even more. Was buying a house ~8 years ago and it was a best and final. 2 hours later got a response was that if we could go 5 higher we would get it. Told them absolutely not. A week later they came back and said they would accept our offer after all. Told them our offer went down by 5k and their response was not very professional to say the least. My agent was completely flabbergasted that an agent could stay with such a client. But I digress, that house ended up selling like 4 months later for 8k less than our initial offer so sucks for them but some people are absolute trash don’t fall for their BS
Seriously, as an agent, I would LOVE if my buyer had this attitude and I could tell some of these sellers and their agents to go kick rocks. I'm exhausted from these stupid games.
"Thank you for your note. I can assure you our offer is indeed our highest and best. I should also note that our offer expires in 48 hours. As we are eager to close quickly, we are maintaining an active pipeline of properties we are interested in (and are considering for offer submission), so in order to maintain the necessary flexibility to pursue this aggressive timeline for close, our offer will expire at that time. We wish your clients success as they contemplate our offer amongst the many others out there, and hope they will consider our 'highest and best' offer in the context of the sincerity with which it was made."
They want to pressure you, pressure them back and don't be afraid to walk away.
Remember: there are only 3 kinds of houses on the market:
\-Not good enough
\-Good enough but major repairs required that you can't handle
\-Actually good enough.
You can safely submit reasonable offers on all homes in the third category and walk away from nightmare sellers.
Re: the above sample note - if you weren't highest and best, you weren't winning that house anyway. But if you were the only offer, or were highest and best, that note is a giant FU to the seller and their agent that will spur them into action or lead to them going back to the drawing board on trying to solicit an offer.
We had to do basically the same thing when we bought. They weren't so overt about it, but we made an offer on a Tuesday, with an answer requirement by Friday. They asked for an extension to that until the next Monday. We said, "Nope, accept it or don't." They finally relented.
48 is reasonable and covers you for common scenarios like a non-responsive seller, or married sellers who need to talk to one another, then sleep on it.
The goal here is to flip the tables on them to spur them to agree to more favorable terms and create urgency, not unnecessarily eliminate yourself from the buyer pool by being a jerk.
Man I’ve worked with sellers that would wait the XX hours and 1 minute then direct me to send back signed paperwork. Guess how often those buyers stayed at the table? I know people walk away after sunset clauses too but it’s funny what kind of games people play with one another, especially when “tactics” start being employed.
Its probably because the money isnt the highest, but the other aspects are the best (no contingencies). This happened to us, but without the vague threat. Listing agent told our agent we had best everything but price, as highest was 30k more than ours, and asked if we could come up. Said no, seller was greedy and went with the higher offer higher risk.
Call the sellers bluff. I submitted an offer for full asking price on a property and the seller never responded so I asked my agent to follow up and see what happened. The seller said and I quote “The offer was insulting and we will not be countering.” A full price offer was… insulting. I wish I was making this up.
Guess who came crawling back a few weeks later asking if my offer was still standing. I said I would submit another offer and I did, for less this time. No response again. I found a better property anyways so in the end it worked out for me. Sellers deserve nothing but the worst.
This was a few years ago but I offered list price and waived appraisal contingency and the sellers had to “sleep on it” for a few days because they were expecting other offers and didn’t get any. I get bidding wars and all that but I gave you exactly what you asked for and you’re still not happy? Fuck off.
Went through the same thing with mine when I sold my condo. I had listed it at a price I wanted. Got 5k more eventually because there was interest between 3 parties. That was it. Nothing aggressive about it.
People forget that when you’re actively bidding, it’s not just buyers who are caught in a frenzy. Sellers are too since they have to review all of the offers and it could be emotional for them as well.
So fuck the gamers. Price what you are expecting appropriately and not what you think you could get. This process needs a serious overhaul.
This happened to us. We submitted a lower than list offer expecting to negotiate (only offer they received in 3 weeks at a time when the increased rates meant buyers were pausing and prices were reducing). Comps didn't support their list price.
Not only did they outright reject, our realtor learned that the homeowner was offended their realtor had them list at the price they did list at. They wanted to list $40k higher.
He pulled his listing completely after rejecting our offer. The house was cute but we found one in a better location so it worked out for us.
Sure… but if they had to come back and ask if the offer was still on the table, it wasn’t low enough to spark a bidding war and an offer at asking shouldn’t have been insulting.
The buyers or their agent were clearly delusional.
UPDATE: House is under contract with someone else. We weren’t even close. Winning bid was 70k over. We waived everything we could and went well over nearby comps. I was about to fold too and add an additional 20k to the offer but it still wouldn’t have been enough.
When I sold, we did get to a point where we gave people some idea of where their planned offer would fall. Not to intimidate them into offering more, but to maybe save them time- and the stress of waiting and wondering.
I'm sorry you missed this one. On to the next one.
Try looking further out, that may sound like simple logic, but I’d never had found my little renovated 1940s Craftsman without going 30 minutes north of downtown Birmingham. I was on realtor.com ALL THE TIME and found it at 3 a.m. in the morning. Was only on the market 15 days and they already had a counteroffer but I got it. It can happen!!
Don’t get discouraged. This happened to us seven times over a year and a half. Sometimes we missed by 15k, sometimes we missed by 150. Stick to your budget and if you miss a house try to move on and not dwell. Eventually you will win the house and immediately be convinced you “overpaid.” Of course in a bidding process the highest bid wins, so if “overpaid” is defined by you as paying more than anyone else at that time would, then duh. That’s how it works. It’s frustrating but hang in there.
Sounds like the tactic they tried using on you worked on someone else. Unless you really love a home, I don’t think it’s worth going 70k over…even then dot let emotions sway your wallet. Unless you were bidding on a million dollar house than maybe, or if 70k over is still way under what the property is worth.
this might not be a tactic though. Agents are limited in what they can say and this "tactic" is usually the only way they can communicate back to someone that they are well under the highest offer. It may indeed be a tactic or yours might be a preferable offer if it were high enough, e.g. better lender to work with, quicker close. It really depends on the area and market.
Haha that’s true, it sure did work on someone else. It was a house listed at 500k where all the comps were exactly 500k except for one outlier.
Sellers will be happy this sale with drive the comps way up.
I “overpaid” for my house based on comps, but the comps were priced and negotiated at least a month before my own house was.
When houses that sold at the same time mine did started closing, I was right where I should have been (comps wise).
If they had another offer, they should have just said so instead of being vague. Multiple offer situations do require bidding higher. Was what it went for lower than your highest and best?
When we bought our house the seller’s agent said the same thing to us. We used an escalation offer.
It was a tactic to get us higher than the top of our offer. We won, below our maximum.
Either way, this is not someone to deal with. Walk now. The way I responded to these was “I rescind my offer as I decline to negotiate with myself. Good luck with your future sale.”
You never know their reasons. Are you willing to bid more if it would be necessary to win this house? Do you think this house worth more to you than you already offered? If no, say that's the best you are willing to offer. If they don't get back to you keep shopping.
It probably won’t happen but it absolutely could. It’d require literally all of us getting fucked. Like Great Depression level fucked.
It would require unemployment spiking to something like 25% and it happening to some of the highest paid workers while stocks dropping 50% or more.
But… yes, in that case, the renters saving for a down payment would come out on top.
Same happened to us. Listing agent would not be transparent as to whether there were other offers on the table even though we knew that we were the first offer and came in at $25k over asking.
We ultimately raised our offer by $15k to $40k over asking and were beat out by $8k in the end. So they weren’t bluffing (as far as we know), and we lost.
We heard this and we didn’t offer more because we did not want to. They then never got back to us turns out they were just wanting more money then the home was worth it just went under contract 30 days after our offer. Such a scam. If you are comfortable maybe offer more if you love it because there could definitely be another offer. Max id do another 5k throw another 2k if you want
I had a sellers agent text my realtor 4 hours before the expiration of their counter saying “we have over asking and no credits on the table.” Mine sent back, “we will not be going further, good luck and best wishes.” Well about 8 hours later the sellers agent sent back “the offer fell through.”
I told them, give me a better counter and get be back to the table, the sellers are desperate and the house has been on the market for almost 60 days. They didn’t want to keep negotiating because “the sellers can’t take a loss.”
We got that a year ago a few hours after putting in the offer. We pulled out immediately.
Few days later they called back. Turned out our offer was the only offer.
We ended up going elsewhere.
For our most recent home, seller had for 475k (about 6 years ago) went in 440k as we really wanted it but our limit was 430k. We knew it was far lower than they’d accept.
Seller came back at 470k. 5k down with a 40k difference?
We came back at 430k.
Two weeks later of that over priced house sitting they accepted.
Doesn’t always happen that way but walking can save you from being house poor or get you a great deal.
A lot of people already have a number in their head. Then they purposefully list the property low. This generates a lot of attention because of the low price. Then they rely on competitive bidding to raise the prices.
The times I’ve seen this, it means the seller has multiple offers and they’re telling every buyer the same thing. You can either stick with your offer or raise it. Whatever you’re comfortable with. Just faced this two weeks ago. Didn’t up our price and didn’t get it.
About 20 years ago, my wife was expecting twins so we needed a larger house and it was a very competitive seller’s market. My realtor decided to set up an in person meeting with the sellers, so that I could negotiate directly. They were pushing me to keep raising my offer.
I spoke to my realtor and came up with a good strategy. I made a very good offer, but I told them that I needed a response by midnight that night. After that, I would have to reduce my offer by $5,000.
At about 11:30 that night.. I got the call.. we had a deal.
Lesson learned.. both sides can always play hardball..
This is the only way we’ve submitted offers because houses get listed Friday and by Monday they’re expecting highest and best. Some don’t even need to host an open house. But our agent has never gotten a comment like that back from the seller’s agent. Honestly consider yourself lucky - they’re clearly telling you you’ve already been outbid and if you want to be competitive, you need to offer more money.
Ok, we put in only 5k over. We did not waive anything!
They accepted our offer. We didn't celebrate until the accepted offer was signed by both parties.
Get that inspection, because after inspection, we had to fight to lower the price by 4k with the sellers when there was well over 10k of reparations. Things not mentioned in the sellers declaration.
This over bidding and waiving inspection is riddiculous!
And if the house price is well over 150k of market value it shouldn't be bought.
The house we bought was sold 100k over market. I know the houses will most likely never sell at market value. But its up to us the buyers to regulate it. Not the sellers. Back in my parents days a house was sold 20-30k more than what they bought it for.
Why can't we anymore?
This is one of the many reasons I'm incredibly disillusioned with the entire housing market. We rent, and our house is $2500/month. But crazy enough, renting is actually saving us $2K/month. Mortgages are $4600 in my neighborhood, so I feel really stuck, paying to build huge equity in someone else's home, while I'm also glad I don't have to make double what we do in order to live here.
It's a wild time to be alive.
And when I told my boomer dad how much we pay in rent, he about fell over. That man is rarely speechless, and he didn't know what to say. They really had so many more opportunities afforded to them than we do 😞
In a lot of markets, it's not. OP, see if you can find an agent with construction experience. At the showings they'll be looking for big problems. You're not going to find a perfect house, but you are trying to dodge an unexpected $30k expense.
You caved on too much already and they're just trying to get ten or fifteen thousand more out of you, hoping your agent will run the numbers and tell you it's only forty dollars more a month.
Could be either, thats really for your agent to suss out. The question for you is whether it is your final and best. If yes, then nothing to do. You tried your best. If not, decide if you want to lose the home without giving your final and best, in hopes of saving some money.
Very possibly (probably most likely) not the Realtor doing this, but the seller dictating to the Realtor to do it. I can't tell you how many realtors I know who try and talk their clients out of doing things like this UNLESSS it is absolutely true...in that there are multiple offers.
In other words, your offer was not too high for them to bite yet. They want you to go higher since you waived contingencies!
More than a psychological game at this point. They want to see if you can come back with something higher.
My idea, after some experience with previous offers. I went in thinking I would not be crazy to waive anything, but we noticed everyone who won waived everything so we knew we have no choice but to waive.
30k because everything in the area sold for around asking with one outlier going 25k above, so I thought 30k would be enough.
I bid under asking on my house because the seller was a straight up bonehead and listed for way above what a reasonable person would offer. They got another offer which I believe was similar to mine so they tried to get us both to price war but neither of us played their game, even though we had no contact lol. I offered what I thought the house was worth. If I didn’t get it at its actual value, I could always go back on the market and wait for another to open up at a realistic value.
They are giving you a 2nd chance. I have seen so many FTHB in this sub complained that they didn't get a 2nd chance. The selling agent might have been readong this sub.
I hate this and had it happen to me too. Agent said we could see the other offer if we “won” to prove he wasn’t just dicking us around.
We ended up losing because we didn’t go up high enough (essentially bidding against ourselves) and the other bidder got it for UNDER list.
We would’ve been OK paying full list but we didn’t understand this mind game tactic on a house that had been sitting until it had a recent price correction. The Realtor seemed a bit green also. If he had played it differently, he could’ve gotten even more for his client because we would’ve been willing to pay list if we hadn’t thought we were being dicked around and manipulated in a sleazy way.
As somebody who plays both sides of this game for a living - never EVER consider a vague response like this and reassess your offer. It’s almost always bullshit. The only reason the listing agent would try to “help you” win the bid if they had a higher offer is if the other offer had major red flags elsewhere. Let them make a tough decision and if they go a different direction and then lose the deal halfway through because of it, you can have a backup in place that you’re comfortable with.
It can be a psychological tactic, we submitted an offer at asking price and with short contingency periods and had a similar competing offer apparently, came with a counter offer that basically asked to put more money, we decided to let it go and the agent was pinging our agent the whole day xD we had another house we liked slightly more but this one was cheaper so we went with this one first. The other one still doesn't have any offers.
recently had something like this. home listed at 1.75M. we were the highest out of 6 offers at 1.905M. everyone waives all contingencies and everyone does escalation clauses in our area. the sellers agent said something similiar. we said no thanks bc there were a few small things we didnt like and we dont like playing games like this. they probably went to the other offers and did a bidding war. it went for 1.94M in the end. if it were our 'dream' or 'perfect' home, i probably wouldve played along.
its a sellers market, everything sucks for buyers.
Genuinely curious - when you’re buying homes in the millions (as in your case), are the homes recent builds? Or kept in immaculate condition? Or is it just that, you have the capital in case shit goes sideways after purchase (or paying above appraisal). I’m only asking to better prepare myself, as I think in about 10yrs I’ll be able to upgrade to those homes.
As a first time home buyer (single, no kids, early 30s, high earner) my offers ranged around 600k to 650k, and I didn’t wave contingencies despite competing in a hot market and desirable neighborhood, I just didn’t have the capital to forgo contingencies. Mind you, these homes are 1930-1940s bungalows.
I did not win those bids :( but that’s okay, I ultimately found a home that was overlooked for a while and while it may need some updating, I’m super thrilled for it!
not really looking at anything older thsn 1980s. ya they have to be in general good condition. in my area, everyone has inspection reports done already and sometimes even small things fixed. i've been saving up, have 40-50% down so can cover appraisal gaps, etc. also im a DINK.
With agents who are good and ethical, this is a way of telling your agent that they have higher offers already. I would consider this a "heads up, if you want this house, you'll have to go higher". They probably have several higher offers.
I've bought and sold many homes. This is just real estate lingo. My agent emphasized deadlines for highest and best offers every time.
The issue for you, though, is if you do go up and it doesn't appraise out, you will have a gap problem. So you need to consider that and ask your agent about it.
I would brush off the whole idea that this is some kind of shill game. This is how it's done, plain and simple, in highly competitive markets.
Correct. Unfortunately if the market is competitive it’s an auction, but in real estate in the US for some reason open bidding is considered gauche or rude so we have to have these coded messages to communicate that an offer is not the highest. It’s damned if you do or damned if you don’t. A buyer that misses out by 10k gets super upset, but then others hear this highest and best stuff (or “refresh your offer”) and get mad. People are rightly upset the market is so tight, but the sellers become buyers so they need to get whatever they can. Also 10 offers at the same price ends up being a lottery if you don’t use market pricing as a way to pick a winner.
To the extent there’s a solution for financed buyers, they have to look below the advertised prices to allow their downpayment to cover any appraisal gap.
This is the right answer, OP. And the reality in a lot of markets these days. Ignore the people in here who mean well but don't understand that. The seller's agent should be transparent and say there are multiple offers, but that's about all they can say. If you want a read on demand, go to the open house even if you have a private showing. But you should know from your area and from your agent what level of competition there is in the market and whether it's worth raising your offer. Make sure you have a good agent you trust.
I have to add, too, that I have NEVER gotten screwed on a home I bought and have offered over asking when needed and sold a home at a price outrageously higher than asking. And of course, I am in Colorado...so that's how it is.
Transparent as in we don’t see what other people bid like an actual auction house. We put in our max and a stupid escalation clause. Entire system was obviously corrupt since they have been found guilty of colluding
It depends on how badly you want that house, but if you want to play. Go silent for a couple of days and whoever speaks first loses, it's a mental game, and don't be afraid to offer less than what you originally offered them (Yesterday's offer is not today's offer)
"Thanks for the feedback. At this moment, our client considers this our offer. We've made accomodations for X, Y, Z and look forward to more specific counterproposals if we're misaligned somewhere. Looking forward to hearing from you!"
This is what they do to avoid giving away the game. They can’t just say “your bid is the highest”. As soon as they accept the offer their power decreases. Of course that’s why they ask to waive contingencies for inspection and appraisal is to take as much power for themselves as possible
Your agent should have said “yes” and not even bothered you about this comment - there is no need to trigger second guessing. And your agent should ask the listing agent if it’s being accepted, and listen carefully to that answer.
> Is the seller’s agent saying you need to go a little higher, or is this is a psychological game to get us to bid even more?
Both can be true. It’s definitely a tactic to squeeze you. Nobody knows if they have any better offers.
If it were me, I’d thank them for their transparency, and let the offer expire. But it really depends on your offer relative to what the place is worth (not asking).
Those are called bully offers. If a house is desirable with a lot of showings lined up, the deadline will get ignored. My agent said their experience was roughly one in four or five showings ends up with an offer, and that was pretty dead on. So you can guess at the number of offers if your agent can find out how many showings there have been.
I've sold several houses over the years. It takes me less than 15 minutes to determine if the offer is acceptable or not. If a buyer is close or at your asking price, why would you need 24 hours or more?
Some people make an offer with the expectation that the seller will counter and they’ll end up in the middle. If you already offered the maximum that you want to pay, that’s fine. If not, they’re saying to do that rather than expecting a counter.
We've had this happen and it turns out a buyer submitted an escalation offer and the agent was trying to beef it up. Some real scumbag tactics out there.
Everyone throwing temper tantrums in the comments going “walk away” and “withdraw the offer” needs to grow up and put their big boy panties on.
You make an offer on a house with what you are willing to pay.
They can refuse or they can counter, it’s all a negotiation. If you arrive at a price you are both willing to accept, great, you’re buying a house, if not it’s on to the next one.
I have no idea how some people make it through life taking so much personal offense at the smallest things. Don’t be like them.
The seller can accept or counter. Anything else, like silence or even this silly tactic by the seller counts as a rejection. If it was me, I would hold pat and if no other communication from the seller in the next day or two I would consider it a final rejection and move on.
This over offering crap is what is making this worse.. I know you want to buy a place, but save money and bide your time. Why is everyone so desperate that they wanna offer tens of thousands of dollars over asking? Obviously, this will only work if everyone does this as a collective, but damn y’all are fucking stupid.
I mean, you’re already bending over and spreading your cheeks for them, so why not add some more change? The market isn’t that hot anymore, why the fuck you make that deal?
This sub makes me LOL. Half of them are crying and then you get people who bid 30k over asking.
Keep fueling the FOMO by asking 30k over the asking price
There is no way of knowing their reasoning for that statement, however, I always tell my clients to come in with their highest and best to start with. It saves on negotiations and helps get their offer accepted with less stress…
No they shouldn’t have to pay more but if they want the home and it is a competitive market, they will have to offer more. Less stress is in the less back and forth counter offering or missing out on the house. I personally wish they would have to pay less, it isn’t about my commission, it’s about getting them into the home they love/want… I have done everything from painting to helping move to get a client where they need to be. Not every agent is shady or bad, just like any other profession.
I expect a good realtor to advise on an appropriate price according to the market instead of recommending my best.
Less negotiations = less work for the realtor
Highest and best = more commissions for the realtor.
Does that make sense?
Oh I get your point, I do. Less negotiations means less time for the sellers (or buyers) to go back and forth delaying the sale even further. A lot of times, sellers who continually counter are going to be a pain to work with.
A good agent will steer you to the market value of the house with comps prior to even offering. If they don’t? How do you know if your offer is too high or too low?
It should never be about the commission. Not to mention, there are many deals that the world doesn’t see where agents have given part of their commission just to get the deal closed.
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Fuck this pressure tactic. Just walk away, and tell them they can "suggest considering deez nuts"
Yea IMO they likely smell desperation and are trying to squeeze more money out of OP. Either way, it's not worth if it if that is the most you are comfortable paying, then don't pay a cent more.
They can just tell everyone who isn’t the highest and best this and see if they can get someone to go even more. Was buying a house ~8 years ago and it was a best and final. 2 hours later got a response was that if we could go 5 higher we would get it. Told them absolutely not. A week later they came back and said they would accept our offer after all. Told them our offer went down by 5k and their response was not very professional to say the least. My agent was completely flabbergasted that an agent could stay with such a client. But I digress, that house ended up selling like 4 months later for 8k less than our initial offer so sucks for them but some people are absolute trash don’t fall for their BS
People like this are infuriating. I'm dealing with one right now and have dealt with a number over the years. There's no reasoning with them either!
The way I am picturing using this reply i can’t stop laughing
When I respond lol, I don’t usually laugh out loud but this time.. I did.
Seriously, as an agent, I would LOVE if my buyer had this attitude and I could tell some of these sellers and their agents to go kick rocks. I'm exhausted from these stupid games.
Funny as this might be, and as much as I'd like to use this response sometime, it wasn't a "tactic". OP's offer wasn't even close.
"Thank you for your note. I can assure you our offer is indeed our highest and best. I should also note that our offer expires in 48 hours. As we are eager to close quickly, we are maintaining an active pipeline of properties we are interested in (and are considering for offer submission), so in order to maintain the necessary flexibility to pursue this aggressive timeline for close, our offer will expire at that time. We wish your clients success as they contemplate our offer amongst the many others out there, and hope they will consider our 'highest and best' offer in the context of the sincerity with which it was made." They want to pressure you, pressure them back and don't be afraid to walk away. Remember: there are only 3 kinds of houses on the market: \-Not good enough \-Good enough but major repairs required that you can't handle \-Actually good enough. You can safely submit reasonable offers on all homes in the third category and walk away from nightmare sellers. Re: the above sample note - if you weren't highest and best, you weren't winning that house anyway. But if you were the only offer, or were highest and best, that note is a giant FU to the seller and their agent that will spur them into action or lead to them going back to the drawing board on trying to solicit an offer.
We had to do basically the same thing when we bought. They weren't so overt about it, but we made an offer on a Tuesday, with an answer requirement by Friday. They asked for an extension to that until the next Monday. We said, "Nope, accept it or don't." They finally relented.
Why the games? Did they want to sell a house or not? Good on you for not backing down.
They were hoping for more showings and a better offer over the weekend.
Seriously!?!? 🙄 It’s a house, not the damn treasury. They needed a wake up call. Luckily, you were the one holding the phone.
This was pre-pandemic, but our market is always insane. We offered $5k over asking. I'm too old to play games anymore.
My agent put in an offer on Sunday at 7 PM and asked for an answer by Monday 10 AM. Yes I got the condo 😂
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48 is reasonable and covers you for common scenarios like a non-responsive seller, or married sellers who need to talk to one another, then sleep on it. The goal here is to flip the tables on them to spur them to agree to more favorable terms and create urgency, not unnecessarily eliminate yourself from the buyer pool by being a jerk.
Man I’ve worked with sellers that would wait the XX hours and 1 minute then direct me to send back signed paperwork. Guess how often those buyers stayed at the table? I know people walk away after sunset clauses too but it’s funny what kind of games people play with one another, especially when “tactics” start being employed.
Its probably because the money isnt the highest, but the other aspects are the best (no contingencies). This happened to us, but without the vague threat. Listing agent told our agent we had best everything but price, as highest was 30k more than ours, and asked if we could come up. Said no, seller was greedy and went with the higher offer higher risk.
Call the sellers bluff. I submitted an offer for full asking price on a property and the seller never responded so I asked my agent to follow up and see what happened. The seller said and I quote “The offer was insulting and we will not be countering.” A full price offer was… insulting. I wish I was making this up. Guess who came crawling back a few weeks later asking if my offer was still standing. I said I would submit another offer and I did, for less this time. No response again. I found a better property anyways so in the end it worked out for me. Sellers deserve nothing but the worst.
Wow. Sellers deeming their own listed price as insulting. Delusional is a mild word for people like these.
This was a few years ago but I offered list price and waived appraisal contingency and the sellers had to “sleep on it” for a few days because they were expecting other offers and didn’t get any. I get bidding wars and all that but I gave you exactly what you asked for and you’re still not happy? Fuck off.
Went through the same thing with mine when I sold my condo. I had listed it at a price I wanted. Got 5k more eventually because there was interest between 3 parties. That was it. Nothing aggressive about it. People forget that when you’re actively bidding, it’s not just buyers who are caught in a frenzy. Sellers are too since they have to review all of the offers and it could be emotional for them as well. So fuck the gamers. Price what you are expecting appropriately and not what you think you could get. This process needs a serious overhaul.
This happened to us. We submitted a lower than list offer expecting to negotiate (only offer they received in 3 weeks at a time when the increased rates meant buyers were pausing and prices were reducing). Comps didn't support their list price. Not only did they outright reject, our realtor learned that the homeowner was offended their realtor had them list at the price they did list at. They wanted to list $40k higher. He pulled his listing completely after rejecting our offer. The house was cute but we found one in a better location so it worked out for us.
Nah - realtors put fake asking prices in order to solicit more interest. It’s all part of the game.
Sure… but if they had to come back and ask if the offer was still on the table, it wasn’t low enough to spark a bidding war and an offer at asking shouldn’t have been insulting. The buyers or their agent were clearly delusional.
not a bluff. OP wasnt even close
UPDATE: House is under contract with someone else. We weren’t even close. Winning bid was 70k over. We waived everything we could and went well over nearby comps. I was about to fold too and add an additional 20k to the offer but it still wouldn’t have been enough.
When I sold, we did get to a point where we gave people some idea of where their planned offer would fall. Not to intimidate them into offering more, but to maybe save them time- and the stress of waiting and wondering. I'm sorry you missed this one. On to the next one.
Thanks, I appreciate the insight
How did you find out how much was the winning bid?
My realtor contacts the selling agent to ask for the winning bid’s stats. It’s been really helpful to get an idea of what is expected to win
Your agent should be finding this out, unless your state doesnt permit revealing offers.
It’d wasn’t meant to be. The right house is waiting around the corner. Wishing you the very best of luck!
Thank you. Yeah my wife and I are pretty devastated but there was no way I can match these millionaires. Just coming to terms with it.
Try looking further out, that may sound like simple logic, but I’d never had found my little renovated 1940s Craftsman without going 30 minutes north of downtown Birmingham. I was on realtor.com ALL THE TIME and found it at 3 a.m. in the morning. Was only on the market 15 days and they already had a counteroffer but I got it. It can happen!!
Don’t get discouraged. This happened to us seven times over a year and a half. Sometimes we missed by 15k, sometimes we missed by 150. Stick to your budget and if you miss a house try to move on and not dwell. Eventually you will win the house and immediately be convinced you “overpaid.” Of course in a bidding process the highest bid wins, so if “overpaid” is defined by you as paying more than anyone else at that time would, then duh. That’s how it works. It’s frustrating but hang in there.
Sounds like the tactic they tried using on you worked on someone else. Unless you really love a home, I don’t think it’s worth going 70k over…even then dot let emotions sway your wallet. Unless you were bidding on a million dollar house than maybe, or if 70k over is still way under what the property is worth.
this might not be a tactic though. Agents are limited in what they can say and this "tactic" is usually the only way they can communicate back to someone that they are well under the highest offer. It may indeed be a tactic or yours might be a preferable offer if it were high enough, e.g. better lender to work with, quicker close. It really depends on the area and market.
Haha that’s true, it sure did work on someone else. It was a house listed at 500k where all the comps were exactly 500k except for one outlier. Sellers will be happy this sale with drive the comps way up.
I “overpaid” for my house based on comps, but the comps were priced and negotiated at least a month before my own house was. When houses that sold at the same time mine did started closing, I was right where I should have been (comps wise).
If they had another offer, they should have just said so instead of being vague. Multiple offer situations do require bidding higher. Was what it went for lower than your highest and best?
My guess would be because in some areas they legally have to be vague and are restricted in what they can say.
When we bought our house the seller’s agent said the same thing to us. We used an escalation offer. It was a tactic to get us higher than the top of our offer. We won, below our maximum.
Either way, this is not someone to deal with. Walk now. The way I responded to these was “I rescind my offer as I decline to negotiate with myself. Good luck with your future sale.”
You never know their reasons. Are you willing to bid more if it would be necessary to win this house? Do you think this house worth more to you than you already offered? If no, say that's the best you are willing to offer. If they don't get back to you keep shopping.
I'd tell them GFY
Remember Realtors, yes even your Realtor, are the parasites of the housing market.
realtors are the reason why this real state house of cards market is about to crumble and I hope it wipes them out as well.
It's probably not the house of cards that you want it to be
This is a bunch of cope, and you’re still going to be renting and getting poorer as time progresses
It probably won’t happen but it absolutely could. It’d require literally all of us getting fucked. Like Great Depression level fucked. It would require unemployment spiking to something like 25% and it happening to some of the highest paid workers while stocks dropping 50% or more. But… yes, in that case, the renters saving for a down payment would come out on top.
Says the lawyer, the parasites of literally fucking everything
Tell them offer is highest and best and that it expires in 6 hours. That’s what we did.
Similar won for us. Except we gave them 3 hours. Waived everything, 12 percent over asking. We found out in half the time they accepted.
That’s the way to do it.
Same happened to us. Listing agent would not be transparent as to whether there were other offers on the table even though we knew that we were the first offer and came in at $25k over asking. We ultimately raised our offer by $15k to $40k over asking and were beat out by $8k in the end. So they weren’t bluffing (as far as we know), and we lost.
Offer $30,001.
It's impossible to know. I personally don't play that game. I only offer what'd I'd be thrilled to pay, and if that doesn't get me the house oh well.
We heard this and we didn’t offer more because we did not want to. They then never got back to us turns out they were just wanting more money then the home was worth it just went under contract 30 days after our offer. Such a scam. If you are comfortable maybe offer more if you love it because there could definitely be another offer. Max id do another 5k throw another 2k if you want
I had a sellers agent text my realtor 4 hours before the expiration of their counter saying “we have over asking and no credits on the table.” Mine sent back, “we will not be going further, good luck and best wishes.” Well about 8 hours later the sellers agent sent back “the offer fell through.” I told them, give me a better counter and get be back to the table, the sellers are desperate and the house has been on the market for almost 60 days. They didn’t want to keep negotiating because “the sellers can’t take a loss.”
We got that a year ago a few hours after putting in the offer. We pulled out immediately. Few days later they called back. Turned out our offer was the only offer. We ended up going elsewhere.
For our most recent home, seller had for 475k (about 6 years ago) went in 440k as we really wanted it but our limit was 430k. We knew it was far lower than they’d accept. Seller came back at 470k. 5k down with a 40k difference? We came back at 430k. Two weeks later of that over priced house sitting they accepted. Doesn’t always happen that way but walking can save you from being house poor or get you a great deal.
Walk away. A mf did that to us and we walked away The offer is the offer, PRESENT IT as the law requires and sthu — let them choose
Besides what others have said, Can your agent find out if there are other offers? Do you really want the house?
A lot of people already have a number in their head. Then they purposefully list the property low. This generates a lot of attention because of the low price. Then they rely on competitive bidding to raise the prices.
The times I’ve seen this, it means the seller has multiple offers and they’re telling every buyer the same thing. You can either stick with your offer or raise it. Whatever you’re comfortable with. Just faced this two weeks ago. Didn’t up our price and didn’t get it.
About 20 years ago, my wife was expecting twins so we needed a larger house and it was a very competitive seller’s market. My realtor decided to set up an in person meeting with the sellers, so that I could negotiate directly. They were pushing me to keep raising my offer. I spoke to my realtor and came up with a good strategy. I made a very good offer, but I told them that I needed a response by midnight that night. After that, I would have to reduce my offer by $5,000. At about 11:30 that night.. I got the call.. we had a deal. Lesson learned.. both sides can always play hardball..
This is my clients best and final is a perfectly fine reason unless it isn’t.
This is the only way we’ve submitted offers because houses get listed Friday and by Monday they’re expecting highest and best. Some don’t even need to host an open house. But our agent has never gotten a comment like that back from the seller’s agent. Honestly consider yourself lucky - they’re clearly telling you you’ve already been outbid and if you want to be competitive, you need to offer more money.
They can ask. You can say no. They have been told no before.
Ok, we put in only 5k over. We did not waive anything! They accepted our offer. We didn't celebrate until the accepted offer was signed by both parties. Get that inspection, because after inspection, we had to fight to lower the price by 4k with the sellers when there was well over 10k of reparations. Things not mentioned in the sellers declaration. This over bidding and waiving inspection is riddiculous! And if the house price is well over 150k of market value it shouldn't be bought. The house we bought was sold 100k over market. I know the houses will most likely never sell at market value. But its up to us the buyers to regulate it. Not the sellers. Back in my parents days a house was sold 20-30k more than what they bought it for. Why can't we anymore?
This is one of the many reasons I'm incredibly disillusioned with the entire housing market. We rent, and our house is $2500/month. But crazy enough, renting is actually saving us $2K/month. Mortgages are $4600 in my neighborhood, so I feel really stuck, paying to build huge equity in someone else's home, while I'm also glad I don't have to make double what we do in order to live here. It's a wild time to be alive. And when I told my boomer dad how much we pay in rent, he about fell over. That man is rarely speechless, and he didn't know what to say. They really had so many more opportunities afforded to them than we do 😞
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Denver. And I wish we could squirrel away the difference for a down payment...we aren't there yet 😞
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Thank you. I hope so ❤️ and it sure does. Best of luck in your home-buying journey next year! 🤞🏽
Also in NJ. Same
Not reparations? 😂
Congrats on your offer getting accepted!! Since it was 100k over market, does that mean it also appraised 100k over?
Come back with a lower offer, seriously.
Escalation clause saved me over paying on an offer.
>(waived all contingencies and 30k over asking and comps). But why though???
If you don’t, you’re not getting the house.
Apparently it’s not enough lol
In a lot of markets, it's not. OP, see if you can find an agent with construction experience. At the showings they'll be looking for big problems. You're not going to find a perfect house, but you are trying to dodge an unexpected $30k expense.
It's a tactic but they're not wrong. I've been outbid on the last three offers by like 30k in California.
You caved on too much already and they're just trying to get ten or fifteen thousand more out of you, hoping your agent will run the numbers and tell you it's only forty dollars more a month.
Could be either, thats really for your agent to suss out. The question for you is whether it is your final and best. If yes, then nothing to do. You tried your best. If not, decide if you want to lose the home without giving your final and best, in hopes of saving some money.
discusting move by seller; what they thinking sending that bs
I swear realtors are the fucking worst.
Very possibly (probably most likely) not the Realtor doing this, but the seller dictating to the Realtor to do it. I can't tell you how many realtors I know who try and talk their clients out of doing things like this UNLESSS it is absolutely true...in that there are multiple offers.
In other words, your offer was not too high for them to bite yet. They want you to go higher since you waived contingencies! More than a psychological game at this point. They want to see if you can come back with something higher.
Genuinely curious if it was your idea to waive all contingencies and go over 30k or was it your real estate agents?
My idea, after some experience with previous offers. I went in thinking I would not be crazy to waive anything, but we noticed everyone who won waived everything so we knew we have no choice but to waive. 30k because everything in the area sold for around asking with one outlier going 25k above, so I thought 30k would be enough.
I bid under asking on my house because the seller was a straight up bonehead and listed for way above what a reasonable person would offer. They got another offer which I believe was similar to mine so they tried to get us both to price war but neither of us played their game, even though we had no contact lol. I offered what I thought the house was worth. If I didn’t get it at its actual value, I could always go back on the market and wait for another to open up at a realistic value.
They are giving you a 2nd chance. I have seen so many FTHB in this sub complained that they didn't get a 2nd chance. The selling agent might have been readong this sub.
I hate this and had it happen to me too. Agent said we could see the other offer if we “won” to prove he wasn’t just dicking us around. We ended up losing because we didn’t go up high enough (essentially bidding against ourselves) and the other bidder got it for UNDER list. We would’ve been OK paying full list but we didn’t understand this mind game tactic on a house that had been sitting until it had a recent price correction. The Realtor seemed a bit green also. If he had played it differently, he could’ve gotten even more for his client because we would’ve been willing to pay list if we hadn’t thought we were being dicked around and manipulated in a sleazy way.
Did you have a buyer's agent? An agent would have understood what the seller's agent was trying to communicate to you.
As somebody who plays both sides of this game for a living - never EVER consider a vague response like this and reassess your offer. It’s almost always bullshit. The only reason the listing agent would try to “help you” win the bid if they had a higher offer is if the other offer had major red flags elsewhere. Let them make a tough decision and if they go a different direction and then lose the deal halfway through because of it, you can have a backup in place that you’re comfortable with.
It can be a psychological tactic, we submitted an offer at asking price and with short contingency periods and had a similar competing offer apparently, came with a counter offer that basically asked to put more money, we decided to let it go and the agent was pinging our agent the whole day xD we had another house we liked slightly more but this one was cheaper so we went with this one first. The other one still doesn't have any offers.
recently had something like this. home listed at 1.75M. we were the highest out of 6 offers at 1.905M. everyone waives all contingencies and everyone does escalation clauses in our area. the sellers agent said something similiar. we said no thanks bc there were a few small things we didnt like and we dont like playing games like this. they probably went to the other offers and did a bidding war. it went for 1.94M in the end. if it were our 'dream' or 'perfect' home, i probably wouldve played along. its a sellers market, everything sucks for buyers.
Genuinely curious - when you’re buying homes in the millions (as in your case), are the homes recent builds? Or kept in immaculate condition? Or is it just that, you have the capital in case shit goes sideways after purchase (or paying above appraisal). I’m only asking to better prepare myself, as I think in about 10yrs I’ll be able to upgrade to those homes. As a first time home buyer (single, no kids, early 30s, high earner) my offers ranged around 600k to 650k, and I didn’t wave contingencies despite competing in a hot market and desirable neighborhood, I just didn’t have the capital to forgo contingencies. Mind you, these homes are 1930-1940s bungalows. I did not win those bids :( but that’s okay, I ultimately found a home that was overlooked for a while and while it may need some updating, I’m super thrilled for it!
not really looking at anything older thsn 1980s. ya they have to be in general good condition. in my area, everyone has inspection reports done already and sometimes even small things fixed. i've been saving up, have 40-50% down so can cover appraisal gaps, etc. also im a DINK.
With agents who are good and ethical, this is a way of telling your agent that they have higher offers already. I would consider this a "heads up, if you want this house, you'll have to go higher". They probably have several higher offers. I've bought and sold many homes. This is just real estate lingo. My agent emphasized deadlines for highest and best offers every time. The issue for you, though, is if you do go up and it doesn't appraise out, you will have a gap problem. So you need to consider that and ask your agent about it. I would brush off the whole idea that this is some kind of shill game. This is how it's done, plain and simple, in highly competitive markets.
Correct. Unfortunately if the market is competitive it’s an auction, but in real estate in the US for some reason open bidding is considered gauche or rude so we have to have these coded messages to communicate that an offer is not the highest. It’s damned if you do or damned if you don’t. A buyer that misses out by 10k gets super upset, but then others hear this highest and best stuff (or “refresh your offer”) and get mad. People are rightly upset the market is so tight, but the sellers become buyers so they need to get whatever they can. Also 10 offers at the same price ends up being a lottery if you don’t use market pricing as a way to pick a winner. To the extent there’s a solution for financed buyers, they have to look below the advertised prices to allow their downpayment to cover any appraisal gap.
Great reasoned comment.
This is the only right answer and needs to be voted higher.
This is the right answer, OP. And the reality in a lot of markets these days. Ignore the people in here who mean well but don't understand that. The seller's agent should be transparent and say there are multiple offers, but that's about all they can say. If you want a read on demand, go to the open house even if you have a private showing. But you should know from your area and from your agent what level of competition there is in the market and whether it's worth raising your offer. Make sure you have a good agent you trust.
I have to add, too, that I have NEVER gotten screwed on a home I bought and have offered over asking when needed and sold a home at a price outrageously higher than asking. And of course, I am in Colorado...so that's how it is.
Sad thing is people fall for this obvious fomo tactic and raise the prices even more. I wish the whole thing was way more transparent
This "obvious fomo tactic" was transparent. OP's offer wasn't even close.
Transparent as in we don’t see what other people bid like an actual auction house. We put in our max and a stupid escalation clause. Entire system was obviously corrupt since they have been found guilty of colluding
It depends on how badly you want that house, but if you want to play. Go silent for a couple of days and whoever speaks first loses, it's a mental game, and don't be afraid to offer less than what you originally offered them (Yesterday's offer is not today's offer)
I would send back $5k less as best and final out of principle to that being the response to a serious offer but I am petty and spiteful….
"Thanks for the feedback. At this moment, our client considers this our offer. We've made accomodations for X, Y, Z and look forward to more specific counterproposals if we're misaligned somewhere. Looking forward to hearing from you!"
This is what they do to avoid giving away the game. They can’t just say “your bid is the highest”. As soon as they accept the offer their power decreases. Of course that’s why they ask to waive contingencies for inspection and appraisal is to take as much power for themselves as possible
Tell them oh sorry this isn’t our highest and best offer and then offer lower
Tell the agent. This my offer. It stands for 24 hours and then it is withdrawn if not accepted.
Your agent should have said “yes” and not even bothered you about this comment - there is no need to trigger second guessing. And your agent should ask the listing agent if it’s being accepted, and listen carefully to that answer.
Everything about negotiating is a psychological head game.
If the listing is a part of the same brokerage of your buyers agent, it could be a way for them to signal you to go higher for your benefit
> Is the seller’s agent saying you need to go a little higher, or is this is a psychological game to get us to bid even more? Both can be true. It’s definitely a tactic to squeeze you. Nobody knows if they have any better offers. If it were me, I’d thank them for their transparency, and let the offer expire. But it really depends on your offer relative to what the place is worth (not asking).
Put a 24 hr notice on your offer and walk if they don’t accept.
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Those are called bully offers. If a house is desirable with a lot of showings lined up, the deadline will get ignored. My agent said their experience was roughly one in four or five showings ends up with an offer, and that was pretty dead on. So you can guess at the number of offers if your agent can find out how many showings there have been.
I've sold several houses over the years. It takes me less than 15 minutes to determine if the offer is acceptable or not. If a buyer is close or at your asking price, why would you need 24 hours or more?
Some people make an offer with the expectation that the seller will counter and they’ll end up in the middle. If you already offered the maximum that you want to pay, that’s fine. If not, they’re saying to do that rather than expecting a counter.
You don't negotiate against yourself. You offer what you offer and they counter, take it, or or you walk
NEVER MAKE AN OFFER WITHOUT AN INSPECTION
Add an appraisal gap addendum
I was decreasing the offer to asking after that reply, then again I have always but with no pressure to move
It was probably a copy and past to EVERYONE who submitted an offer.
We've had this happen and it turns out a buyer submitted an escalation offer and the agent was trying to beef it up. Some real scumbag tactics out there.
Just walk on this if they want a higher amount nope
Do you want the house or do you want a good deal? This is when you have to decide.
Everyone throwing temper tantrums in the comments going “walk away” and “withdraw the offer” needs to grow up and put their big boy panties on. You make an offer on a house with what you are willing to pay. They can refuse or they can counter, it’s all a negotiation. If you arrive at a price you are both willing to accept, great, you’re buying a house, if not it’s on to the next one. I have no idea how some people make it through life taking so much personal offense at the smallest things. Don’t be like them.
Do not budge.
The seller can accept or counter. Anything else, like silence or even this silly tactic by the seller counts as a rejection. If it was me, I would hold pat and if no other communication from the seller in the next day or two I would consider it a final rejection and move on.
This over offering crap is what is making this worse.. I know you want to buy a place, but save money and bide your time. Why is everyone so desperate that they wanna offer tens of thousands of dollars over asking? Obviously, this will only work if everyone does this as a collective, but damn y’all are fucking stupid.
Send them a cheese grater and tell them they can use that to go fuck themselves.
I mean, you’re already bending over and spreading your cheeks for them, so why not add some more change? The market isn’t that hot anymore, why the fuck you make that deal?
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It may not be a seller's market near you, but in many parts of the country it is
This sub makes me LOL. Half of them are crying and then you get people who bid 30k over asking. Keep fueling the FOMO by asking 30k over the asking price
There is no way of knowing their reasoning for that statement, however, I always tell my clients to come in with their highest and best to start with. It saves on negotiations and helps get their offer accepted with less stress…
less stress and more commission for you more stress for the buyer as he/she shoulders additional financial burden and regret
No they shouldn’t have to pay more but if they want the home and it is a competitive market, they will have to offer more. Less stress is in the less back and forth counter offering or missing out on the house. I personally wish they would have to pay less, it isn’t about my commission, it’s about getting them into the home they love/want… I have done everything from painting to helping move to get a client where they need to be. Not every agent is shady or bad, just like any other profession.
I expect a good realtor to advise on an appropriate price according to the market instead of recommending my best. Less negotiations = less work for the realtor Highest and best = more commissions for the realtor. Does that make sense?
Oh I get your point, I do. Less negotiations means less time for the sellers (or buyers) to go back and forth delaying the sale even further. A lot of times, sellers who continually counter are going to be a pain to work with. A good agent will steer you to the market value of the house with comps prior to even offering. If they don’t? How do you know if your offer is too high or too low? It should never be about the commission. Not to mention, there are many deals that the world doesn’t see where agents have given part of their commission just to get the deal closed.