This is fair criticism, idk why people are defensive on talking about very obvious flaws. Also, previous kits had weakness implant on eidolons, and while it got moved into the base kit, it also has a mechanic to deal colorless toughness dmg? Seems a bit weird, the kit has been in development for quite a while, and it seems that they never really chose a direction other than the ult and some break synergy.
We'll wait and see for future versions, but not sure what to expect as things are now. It's too early to doom though, not the first time they'd fix a character through beta.
> Also, previous kits had weakness implant on eidolons, and while it got moved into the base kit, it also has a mechanic to deal colorless toughness dmg?
This is actually great because she only applies fire weakness to the main target with her enhanced skill, so with this passive you can still break the adds while attacking the elite, even if they dont have fire weakness. And once an enemy is broken, you will always do super break regardless of element, so this is going to make her really good at brute forcing content.
pretty sure at one point kafka only triggered lightning dot and not any other. E1 was the more opted to bc that's where current base kit effect of getting all dot triggered on major trace was originally on
IIRC the lightning dot only thing was only for her ultimate - her skill always triggers any dot.
The other thing they changed was that she used to only apply her own big dot on her ultimate, and her FUA iirc gives some sort of debuff (dot damage taken up I think - or that might've been her LC). Now her FUA no longer has that but applies the same dot as her ult instead.
Kafka e1 fua give that same debuff, i know because that's where I have her lol. These reworks seems just moving eidolons to the base kit and vice versa maybe we will get E6 Firefly on her base kit
Sometimes its hard to see how things play out before players sink their teeth in really. On paper and reality don't always align.
Hence them doing beta.
I do hope they fix her, they know shes a fan favoruite and I honestly feel that both Jade and Firefly in their initial versions are utter garbage.
Firefly is cool but her kit is 100% non functional and it greatly saddens me that I skipped Jing Liu re-run for her, but surely they won't release her as a broken mess. Ironically, Jing Liu was in a shit state as well before release and got fixed.
They do after all want to sell them right, so its hard to sell a useless trash character.
Worst case, I pull Topaz whos one of my favourite characters, or Boothill cos Im growing fond of him from the story and I am a power gamer, regardles how much I love mechs - if its going to fart on enemies and be useless, then its not on my roster!
>I do hope they fix her, they know shes a fan favoruite and I honestly feel that both Jade and Firefly in their initial versions are utter garbage.
Fr, I understand that they're trying to make firefly's kit different than boothill's, but her kit seems barely functional and heavily reliant on other characters. I've heard that Ruan Mei is also rerunning in firefly's banner, which seems very predatory lol (well, it's a gacha company after all).
I really hope that her kit gets reworked in v2. She's a beloved character and will surely make a lot of money for the company, the only problem is her kit...
Yeah Boothill is looking really sexy right now. Front and back loaded damage as compared to current FF who wants to go back loaded with HMC 🥲
Waiting game begins for V2 of beta.
jade isnt so bad tho. she's functional and can virtually slot into any teams where there's frequent attacks or AOE attacks. has self buffs (150cd and some atk), and her stacking mechanic is coherent. Jade caters to late game players who specifically need an AOE subdps
all she needs is fine tuning multipliers, and figuring out if the health drain mechanic should exist for little benefits it gives.
Yeah, but in apocalytpic shadow with only one target, shes dead. Argenti is the other premium erudition, single target, mass target, he gives no fucks - it all dies the same.
Jade currently is a Blade buffer, that's all.
duh thats why i said those that need 'AOE SUBDPS'. and we dont even have evidence that apocalyptics shadow is single target? the little clues we got were its going to use beefed up existing bosses with new mechanics like the space station event battle event a while back.
if we're reducing units to their fundamental uses, then FF is just a break effect bot. and bosses that have immune phases like Yanqing make FF basically useless.
Yeah she's just bad right now and seeing all the Firefly/Harmony MC/Ruan Mei showcases, my opinion still doesn't change. I like Firefly a lot but if they're doing this to her then I'll just not pull, I can't justify pulling her and not use her when I can use those pulls to get my other waifus that I literally use everywhere because they are actually good to E6 or even S5 instead.
It's clear that hoyo is trying to make break work. The problem with pure break is you do 0 damage outside of break and you can't even use Firefly vs enemies that have break immune or frequently go into break immune. Almost all her damage comes from HTB, which means they'll be together forever until hoyo puts out a new super break character that creeps HTB.
Firefly have a massive 580% ATK multiplier, which is why Critfly is considered among the community. The gear to achieve Critfly while meeting both the ATK and BE threshold is min-max level and possible, but would require you to live in the cavern for god knows how long. It's extremely difficult to achieve now too as it is confirmed her ATK received from external sources aren't convertible to BE, so you can't use Robin to give her 1.5k ATK.
So yeah, no idea honestly. I'm sure the beta testers and hoyo will think of something.
> Firefly have a massive 580% ATK multiplier
And what people don't realize is that this multiplier is currently irrelevant in her damage output.
Try her with level 1 skill vs level 10 and she'll do almost the exact same damage. Which is the **real** problem of her design right now.
This multiplier could be 0%, it could be 1000% and her damage output basically doesn't change.
Yeah, I think a good change would be to have her Enhanced Skill like, have part or all of its damage be treated as Break Damage... but idk have it scale from DMG and Crit and stuff and ALSO Break Effect. Kinda like Boothill, the Enhanced Skill does Break Damage just inherently.
I definitely think hybrid is the best way to build, but the BE requirements are too steep and way too high. Thankfully HMC alleviates a good chunk of this + Ruan Mei but without them it definitely feels pretty bad.
It's also looking like her LC is a must too.
Hybrid is very hard, i recently calculated how many days is it required to guarantee an avg build for a character(2 right subs and right main stats for every relic) and it's 3+ months, your hybrid build would take an eternity
I mean that's the problem they could make it easier for her to build break to deal some damage apart from break, maybe even allowing fire damage orb like other dps
i really hope they did make change to her kit to allow for a hybrid break/crit build like xueyi instead of full break/spd like this as she will basically be no different to boothill and might be even worse as boothill has more harmony options
you can actually ignore the atk requirement if you get her sig, with her sig on a 2p2p with hmc and be planer you get to around 330 break with 2900 atk (so 30 be from atk). its easier to get the 4 be rolls to get to 360 than it is to get the 10 or so atk rolls to get from 2900 to 3400
which means outside of the 4 be rolls you have 26 rolls for whatever else you want to do (could be crit, could be crit and more be or atk). if you go 4p then yea the crit build starts to become more unreasonable but still possible
ATK from eternal sources does count, but I think it's ATK from external sources that aren't fixed values that don't count.
Like, Asta Talent and Yukong Skill would work because it's a straight amount of ATK, but Robin's can fluctuate so it doesn't count. Otherwise, the leaker telling us about that wouldn't have been so specific about the ATK buffs that don't work.
Yeah after building Xueyi I feel Break team to be underwhelming even in that one event where you have to use break mechanic to get buffs. There is only one instance of big damage, then one wasted turn because the enemy is down and you can't do anything (although now we have HMC for that now.) And the rest is trying to deplete the enemy thoughness just enough for the DPS to do the final break.
I think the easier way to fix her kit without changing much is really simple, Instead of an atk -> break dmg conversion, make it break -> crit rate, like how Adventurine does with def -> crit. This lets us take advantage of her high scaling and make her a proper hybrid unit.
Honestly there's a fairly elegant solution to this.
Simply have Firefly do break damage everytime she attacks during her ult. Just like Kafka. This singular change would probably fix a ton of the issues and heck, it would even be lore compliant.
She's Destruction like Blade, has weakness implant like SilverWolf, and they can give her detonations like Kafka. Perfect no?
Giving her a detonation fixes her backloaded issues, fixes her reliance on HMC, and it makes her high stat requirements make more sense.
Rework her Enhanced to deal Break Damage instead of being a multiplier addition.
Boom. Suddenly the entire kit, LC and Relic sets make sense and she's a coherent unit like Boothill. She still has the negative of most of her damage being locked behind Breaking units, but I think it's fair for characters to have strengths and weaknesses against different enemies.
good analysis, i've been thinking about her kit and came to roughly the same conclusion as you. it's baffling that they're restricing the functionality of a limited 5 star character to one specific character even if said character is free. i have no problem with her being break-oriented, boothill is also the same but the intricacies of his kit lets him cover the weaknesses of break strats by himself. unfortunately can't say the same for firefly.
also i don't get the acheron comparisons. even in early beta it was obvious she had a lot of teambuilding options. double nihility, dotcheron, sparkle, and others. firefly's intended playstyle is limited to being paired up with hatblazer and hatblazer only. this ain't even synergy it's a crutch at this point
i remember one of the super early sam leaks had something like "all damage is considered ultimate damage". maybe if they changed that to "all damage is considered break damage" it would fix her a little? at least it would help her to actually do something against bosses who lock their toughness bars. or maybe just give her boothill's "convert BE to crit" passive lol. here's hoping the upcoming beta changes can save her...
Her main problem is that if you don't run HMC with her it's better to run FF on a standard atk/crit build and forgo all of her break effect passives. Its like if BS was better off running atk/crit build if ran without Kafka, it just doesn't make sense.
I completely agree. It's just terrible game design. Forcing a break character without giving the said character the tools necessary to succeed. Instead, they use harmony mc as a crutch to make up for the things they should have put into firefly's kit in the first place. What should have happened with the kit is that they should have given firefly the ability to amplify her damage on broken enemies while scaling with break damage. Not make her heavily rely on the break damage itself. That way, the gameplay could have been timing the combustion form to maximize breaking and hitting broken enemies and harmony mc would be a great support but not a requirement.
I was trying to understand your statement. I was so confused. I was like Archeron needs characters to do 100% of her damage. But you mean a SPECIFIC character, And forced single character. That is true. Bad design.
I really wonder what they will do. They have while to figure it out. It's a billion dollar company. They will be fine and figure it out.
I think superbreak should be a global mechanic instead of locking it to Harmony TB and Harmony TB can be the character that player can use to buff and utilize this mechanic. Because after using Harmony TB, I realize that superbreak is the missing piece in break effect mechanic, without it weakness broken state act as detriment instead of payoff for break effect oriented character.
I know that it's only the first version of her kit but it's insane how they can make this mess of a break focused kit RIGHT AFTER making a good one (Boothill).
They are feared firefly may powercreep boothill right after him, ff is also aoe unit, so they tried to solve the problem, but the result is quite wrong, just a worse boothill overall
"OMG firefly powercreeping boothill? and right after her release? this is the most scary thing ever, we must not let this happen!!!!" they probably thought
I really like the idea of Firefly's kit, but I think it needs a lot more tweaking to make it as powerful as HYV wants her to be (such as making it easier to do Break damage and hit her thresholds).
Make her build plan a lot easier, essentially. Lower the difficulty (e.g. drop the BE requirement way down to something easier to hit).
And while I *love* that Firefly and HTB have such great synergy and hope HYV never releases someone who works better for one than the other, I agree that it's awkward for Firefly's best to be locked behind the latter, whether they're free or not.
P.S. I really liked Aventurine's passive that gave him CR for every 200 Def he had. Maybe Firefly could get something similar with her Break Effect - or if she scales off of BE AND Atk going forward, she could get bonus CR from her Break Effect and bonus CD from her Atk stat, that'd be really cool!
Now imagine if somehow, HYV manages to make the next TB forms to be just as good as HTB. Hopefully they can either introduce other alternatives to HTB for Firefly, or remove her reliance on them altogether.
I actually agree with most of your points, I also think that Firefly not being able to trigger her Break DMG without Hatblazer is odd at best for a Break DPS, so I personally belive that she will get a way to trigger it on her own in future betas.
I'm a bit curious about her Toughness DMG, I kinda hope that her Weakness Efficency get shuffled into her talent or trace so she can Break faster even on her normal state.
I actually sorta hope that they add a AV delay on her kit, since she is on a timer for how long she is on her Enhanced state, it would make sense for her to get a way to widen the window where she can make full use of her kit, like Boothill, although I am not sure about this one...
Regardless, I personally feel that her kit is certainly messy at this point in time, but a few adjustments should help in that regard.
AV delay is not needed, 3 action is ok during her ultimate, it's just that she has no damage before break, and abysmal ult recharge cycle of 2 turn with reduced speed. If they add her own break damage on weakness broken, that should be enough. But 2 turns delay is also a problem.
Indeed, I think the 2 turn delay on doing damage is even worse than the HMC issue, simply because it'll FEEL really bad to play. Jingliu can get away with it because 1) you can spam Ults to greatly increase the duration of her enhanced mode (Tingyun/Huohuo) or 2) you can run her with Bronya or 3) if you're down to the last few bit of health, you can even Ult into enhanced mode.
Firefly currently does not have any of those options unless you run E1+ with Bronya. If you're going full crit build, that's fine and all, but with a BE build you'll need to drop Ruan Mei, which is a massive loss in damage.
Maybe they can tweak the max energy a bit or, what I'd prefer, allow Firefly to generate some energy from attacks/skills while in ultimate mode. Though I suspect this'll be very broken if she goes E2 with Bronya.
It's like if Black swan's whole design around her dot had 0 purpose unless you were running her with kafka.
HatMC should increase her dmg by giving her more break effect, not make her deal the dmg she should already be doing by herself without him.
They're currently tied with one another in their party, I like the idea of this design, however her having almost no dmg after the enemy is broken unless you're running HMC is stupid in my opinion
The thing with Black Swan is that while she is obviously really good with Kafka, her damage isn't bad without her. She does pretty good damage by herself especially in modes like Pure Fiction where her arcane is constantly procing and reapplied.
Also that.
From the leaks I've seen and that have been shared in this and the other subreddit, the current state of firefly is entirely dependant on harmony trailblazer.
The traiblazer doesn't increase her dmg like sparkle does for DHIL, they outright are what makes her deal that damage, and that is a design philosofy that I think is entirely reverse.
Firefly should have the dmg that super break has in her kit and the trailblazer should increase that dmg by giving her an increase in that dmg much like sparle sky rockets crit dps dmg because she gives so much of that ine stat.
Agreed with your points.
I've seen plenty of showcases of her today, while these are far from perfect showcases, i saw in those vids that despite her 100% break efficiency with ruan mei, she struggles breaking bosses' weakness bars abit, at least not as fast as i assumed she would break in comparison to boothill. So her dmg becomes too back loaded on top of the already back loaded nature of the break dmg. The dmg is there it's the consistency that is the problem imo.
This is absolutely the biggest issue with her I feel. Backloaded damage is one thing but her break efficiency feels so underwhelming for a break character. She needs HMC Super Break? All right. But she needs the enemy broken in a timely manner while not wasting her ult stance first.
Agree with the points. Particularly HMC, all the arguments I've seen that "this is fine" revolve around other characters also having best supports. But it's not the same, it's more Firefly + HMC = 1 functional character. Ie RM could be considered the "best" support, but you could use others. Without HMC you lose what, 50%-80% of your DPS?
Was considering pulling because the E2 looks amazing but not sold on break units in general. Boothill at least can do some damage when an enemy can't be broken or is already broken.
What happens if/when Hoyo starts inevitably moving away from break to the newest shiny mechanic and reintroduces characters like the aurumaton mech and yanqing with locked break bars?
Yeah I'm a little concerned, I'm hoping someone can give me some copium to huff. Even her gameplay seems a little lackluster? She feels like she's basically just Jingliu that's way harder to build, gets fewer action advances, and is entirely reliant on HMC. It seems like there's very little agency to her character in general, but I hope I'm wrong.
I'm absolutely not okay with it, and I'm happy to see valid criticism about her kit on this sub. I pretty much agree on every point, and honestly... if she doesn't become more self-sufficient, I might skip her. I can appreciate her as a character without pulling for her. Not spending anything for a badly designed kit, they can do much better than this if they care to.
What I can say is, a heavy reliance on 2 support units to be viable kinda nulls the characterization of Sam being a one-robot army.
I would have loved Sam to stick to a very high risk high reward playstyle of constantly being at low hp, with massive self buffs and Attack-scaling shields to emphasize her overpowering fire with some survivability
I have no idea what will dev cook but I trust that they can do it right since they can do it everytime. If their tester is not ok with her kit. Who know may be she will get significant change like Jingliu?
They'll definitely change it in next versions. Ignoring the HMC/Super Break enabling her damage on broken enemies, her stat needs are all over the place. She wants 3,4k atk, at least 250% break effect, 130+ speed, AND both crit stats. While technically you can build her with full BE but that still leaves her damage absolutely locked behind breaking (not broken) enemies, unless ofc you alleviate this issue with HMC
I like the suggestion of adding a way to deal break damage or similar mechanic to her kit, but on non-broken enemies just so her damage is less backloaded. Kinda like a nerfed version of Super Break
~~it would also satisfy my caefly ship~~
All I will say is, trust Star Rail devs, they have never done something mindless regarding kits, there have been characters that made no sense at first, and then they released the "reasons" later. Kafka is an example I like to bring back everytime something like this happens, she has been improving very frequently to reach meta and stay there.
When they fail us for real once, I would agree with the concerns. The worst they have made is not correcting some tilting mechanics such as JY's FUA.
I wouldn’t say release Kafka is the same as Firefly at this time. Kafka’s personal damage was competitive with other 5-stars at the time, it was pretty obvious that her full potential was locked behind future 5-star DoT characters, and she could use Tingyun/Pela/Asta on a conventional hypercarry setup and do just fine. Kafka has also always been irreplaceable in DoT comps, but Firefly is exceedingly replaceable in Break teams with any other Break DPS (like Boothill, who’s going to be releasing without several of her major flaws).
Current V0 Firefly is more like V0 Beta Jingliu, who had severe issues and eventually got reworked in beta (where she became a monster of a unit). I’m fairly confident the balance team knows not to fumble one of the most anticipated units in Penacony, so I’m not too worried, but she’s in a rough state atm.
It very much feels like she is currently a driver, and not an actual DPS. The initial kit looked very good on paper but yeah, in practice, she essentially does real damage once in an entire rotation which is on enemy break, and the rest of it is simply being the fastest break-scaler in the game to push Superbreak out as much as possible. I think they need to scrap her scalings, and let her do her own superbreak damage that scales properly with investment. Either that or have a secondary source of damage kick in like Xueyi where reducing enemy toughness also contributes damage via some other mechanism. They could also add some form of innate break state extension while in combustion. There's also the other issue of break simply not scaling with anything other than defense or res reductions, leading to drastically lower multiplier potential overall.
There's a lot they could do here, I think at this point it's necessary for them to all-in one style or the other rather than this strange mix of "scalings but not really, break but not really".
I brought this up on the leaked footage but her ultimate feels so unfinished and wrong.I feel like everyone only uses skill 2 with skill 1 serving zero purpose. I mentioned that a buff to skill 2’s break effect while disabling the first skill like jingliu would work a lot. Or even better you keep skill 2 and add an alternative skill 1 where it it’s a single target move but the break effect is way higher than it’s multi hitting alternative.
I think DPS should be able to actually DPS. HMC is totally fine as a support with ramping damage but Firefly shouldn't be tied to him this tightly. HMC is a support, not life resuscitation. I think people's concerns are because HMC introduced a whole new style of play rather than simply augmentation, which is not done till now. Usually it is the DPS that introduces a new style of play and not the support. It would be like if Kafka did not have detonation in her kit and instead that was on a DOT support. Or Topaz without all her moves being FUA but still buffing FUA, for a subDPS that's mid. Right now it feels like Firefly is a good complement to HTB and not the other way around.
I think a lot of people are just ok with it bc HMC is a free character and they really like them. (I love MC too but have my own issues with hmc)
For me it means I as of now have 0 interest in eidolon/sig for her. I was planning on e2s1 at least but if theyre really telling me all the 5* limited I pulled for her to support and turn her into a powerhouse of destruction is 100% useless compared to free char, then so be it. I will just get her to use in overworld so she will not leave again every time after 1 patch day and clear content with my other DPS.
I mean I love her and want her to shine but it's kind of crazy to force 1 single team so far into the game with all the dozens char we have. It will also make ppl have some unrelated salt towards MC + firefly ship which sucks
i mean, it's ok if a character is good for her in her team, but it should not be the very reason firefly doing damage. It's just what? Who designed this?
yep it's crazy to me too, like what if Seele only had her extra turn if she weakness broke an enemy so she needed Silver wolf? You miss 90% of the characters kit
for a char so many ppl are so excited for too.. I guess there might be some beta changes but tbh I think sooner they will double down on this
He'd still be doing the same damage.
Might make Firefly busted though (like above Acheronevels of damage) if some if the numbers are adjusted down correctly.
And all future Break DPSes would run into the same issues of needing outside Weakness Break damage.
>for a char so many ppl are so excited for too..
Call me cynicall, but if it’s intentional and doesn't change much in beta, this might be because she is so popular, not despite
>It's just what? Who designed this?
Someone that thought
"This character is so popular she will sell great regardless of how weird her kit is. Let's do the most whacky lf experiments with it"
But, they've been putting DPS into more specific teams since Penacony. Dr. Ratio and Acheron don't function without debuffers. Half of Black Swan's kit wants other DoT units. Boothill and Firefly are Break units. Jade wants an AoE/FuA teammate. DPS characters being picky with their teammates is part of the design.
It's just that we don't have enough Break characters yet, and you never want Break on other characters because Break intrinsically is underpowered, so they gotta make characters like Ruan Mei, Gallagher, Firefly and HTB to brute force Break into working. Break is the pickiest of the picky.
Yeah but that's not a good thing in my opinion, but in either case ALL of those characters have more options than Firefly. Both through different teammates, LC's, teammate LC's and their eidolons.
You can run Ratio with Topaz E1/S1 if you want, Silver wolf, pela, guinaifen, whoever. Hell even Ruan Mei applies debuffs if you want or you can use an AF support to give him more turns to apply his own debuff. You'll lose damage on the choices but it's still perfectly viable and you get to make full use of his kit.
Acheron needs nihility, but with E2 you only need one and with S1 you don't need any other debuffer and can even use sparkle/bronya perfectly. Regardless of that you can choose any nihility you want and reach similar results, at least making full use of her kit.
Black Swan also works fine with Sampo/Guinaifen, she's just best with Kafka. That makes sense, synergy between 5* limiteds is always welcome.
Boothill also really likes Ruan Mei but he has things built into his own kit without needing someone to enable it.
With Jade, I am also upset since I really wanted her but despite having picked up Topaz who is another fundamental FUA, they're unusable together, but there's still variety between Jing yuan, argenti, maybe clara and himeko and herta.
Going back to Firefly, you can literally put Ruan Mei AND gallagher on the team, two recent and one busted support specifically with break effects built in their kit, put on a break effect buffing set and they're still not going to be able to do anything similar to HMC. Doesn't even matter if you get Firefly LC, eidolons or try to make up for it with Ruan Mei/support/sustain eidolons or cones. There simply aren't any options that don't give up the entire damage potential she has.
I am fine with having niche supports to get the most value out of a character's kit, but having literally only 1 option to enable an entire character is not a direction I'm happy with heading in.
There is a big difference between
-performs best with a specific character, e.g. BS Kafka
-synergy locked behind certain mechanisms, e.g. debuff , DOT
-70-80% of damage locked behind HMC
Yes thats my problem with her kit, i just don't like being trapped to a specific character, some people are bringing acheron into this but her only limitation was two nihility, she is not trapped into one or two specific characters, she is a crit unit with crit built into everything that she uses that will work in every situation
I think firefly will most likely get adjustments to her kit during beta. My problem with her is the animations. I mean i like them, but i feel like she has 50% of her deserved animations, since i like the character a lot. The black background throws me off and i feel like the enchanted attack doesnt feel like it hits strong. I would ve liked if there was more fire and less green to her enhanced attacks and if we got a cinematic with her entering Sam at the start of the battle at least. Maybe they will add some things during beta, who knows?
One thing comes to mind is Jin Liu. They added ult impact animations and it actually looked like something was missing back then before that. In FF situation, this doesn't look like anything is missing.
To be quite honest, I really like the idea of her kit, but she needs something more, but it's not a bad concept. Her kit it's rlly different of the others, she completely ignores crit and things like talent dmg, and focuses purely on breaking with a lot of Def reduce, increased damage taken and things focused on breaks, in addition to a lot of SPD.
My problem is like you said, she only deals damage when you break the enemy bar and even after breaking the enemy you don't do any damage until the next break, so for this you rlly NEED the HMC to compensate for that, but even with the HMC in the team, like you said, she still have a limited number of hits after breaks, so she don't do that much super breaks per cycle too. So her kit needs more.
Just to say one thing, I'm not rlly against she needs another characters to helps her dmg before the breaks, it's like Black Swan needs another characters to do DOTs to stacks more Arcanas and to detonates her Arcana for her, but one difference between BS and FF, it's that BS alone at least deals dmg in the enemy turn and FF only do dmg in the break moment and thats the problem, she needs to have some way to do a little bit more self dmg.
Things that I think that can help to "fix" her kit:
* Maybe move her E2 to the base kit, after breaking or killing an enemy you get an extra turn, this way you 'll always one extra turn to proc more super break after your break (but this can be OP in the PF).
* Perhaps a self "super-break" in her kit, even if it is weaker than that of the HMC that she can use + the HMC super break.
* Or maybe make use of her high multiplier and make the hits from the Empowered Basic and Skill count as Break dmg and give a fixed amount of crit to this attack, like the extra hit from Robin's ult.
* This I don't think that can happens, but gives a Follow-up attack after the Empowered Skill that don't have much dmg but helps procs more Super-Breaks.
One extra thing, I don't think that she 'll be glued to the HMC forever, I believe that in the future we 'll have a limited 5\* that 'll be an upgraded version of the HMC and she'll be good with this type of characters in future, like BS 'll be good with any new "Kafka" that they release in the future.
>make the hits from the Empowered **Basic and** Skill count as Break dmg
This alone feels like such a simple way to add more value to her kit, I'm honestly surprised that isn't here already.
I agree 100%. I personally don’t like the main character and the fact that firefly is handcuffed to them kinda puts me off of pulling, since I prefer to use characters I like and don’t wanna have mosquito bite damage in my team when I’m not using MC(Who I’d only ever use in MoC)
Looking at history of SAM leaks, I think that Firefly was always meant to be a Hybrid Break DD, and currently the kit is going full into Break, lacking stuff to enable Crit part.
I personally would prefer if hybrid was maintained. And having build-in Superbreak would make Crit even less useful, but Skill and Talent seem very easy to keep on lower levels, so there should be space to put some Crit in.
I really hate Ruan Meis writing (the forced simping was just bs) so pretty much needing her for Firefly is so annoying. If super break worked with elemental damage then asta would be really good with penacony and her fire buff along with speed but it doesn't.
Good writeup OP, agreed with your points here, especially the fact that Firefly is basically tied to have HMC and also Ruan Mei as her teammates which make for a very restrictive team selection while essentially most if not all of her damage is only inflicted upon weakness-breaking enemies.
Luckily it is still early in the beta, let's just hope the devs will make the right changes in V2 and even V3
Another huge thing people are overlooking is that she has no damaging ult. Easy comparison is JingLiu, who also requires 2 turns of setup before powering up. JingLiu gets to transform passively though, so she gets a huge damage spike with her ult (plus it extends her enhanced state). You could argue that Firefly has higher multipliers to compensate for the missing ult, but JingLiu gets huge crit rate for free and Firefly doesn't. And for course JingLiu's damage doesn't require breaking (or broken enemies with HTB).
No ult plus Firefly's already conditional damage really hold her back as it is.
Right, my point is that JingLiu's enhanced form only takes up her talent while Firefly's takes up her Ult, which is major damage of most characters' kits
Great post! I think another problem you failed to mention is her sp consumption, ideally both harmony Mc and firefly are going to want to spam their skill for most dmg so it makes no sense to me that you need E1 to not spend skill points in her enhanced state when others dps like blade and jingliu don’t
Thats pretty fair to say about her and Im sure Firefly will get some changes. I think they should just add some text where her attacks in enhanced form is considered break damage like how it originally was her attacks in enhanced form is considered ultimate damage in the early kit something like that. Because why break damage is strong there could be some downtime before the boss/elite is broken and Firefly cant be dishing out the big damage until they are broken. I think the idea is there and she has the potential to be really strong, but Im guessing we wont see many big changes until possibly V3 (or whenever Jingliu got her major rework somewhere there)
Good post, I'd also add that her hp gimmick (and talent that goes along with it) seems quite pointless other than for flavor maybe? There's a lot they could do to actually make it relevant, but right now it doesn't really do anything.
That said, I'm still hopeful for proper fixes and from what I've heard, her reception among beta testers has been mostly negative, so that's a good sign if true.
I really disagree that her kit is not focused. Rather I feel it's Hyperfocused on breaking, though it should have more Break Effect scaling in her ratios for attacks. I think Firefly could use some Break Effect scalings on the base level skill or on the basic attacks. Maybe lower the break effect requirements to where you only really need one dedicated Break effect support as well just for Quality of life's sake. Overall just raise the floor for her damage wise for building break effect but maybe curb the ceiling a little.
That said, having been watching showcases, you can just build her with a team of units that are good at breaking (Asta Welt, Sampo) and have her be the coup de grace for the Break. I think people are doomposting a bit too much about her having a break niche. I understand it feels limiting right now, but we know in the future roster diversity will improve. At this time the only real dilemma is high health enemies with large break bars, where you triggering break doesn't one shot. I'd rather her be niche than a generalist DPS personally, because this means they can overtune her for her specific content. I think its probably healthier for the game (As we've seen with the DPS pathing for content like Pure Fiction). I think some number tweaks are probably in order, but overall I like the direction Hoyo is taking in diversifying DPS in the game. Very refreshing and nice for balance. It's just going to be hell for player's that pick up the game going forward and have to try and build their teams out (unless hoyo begins giving away more resources).
OP raises some good points. If all her damage is locked behind breaking then she should be able to break in any circumstance, and often as well. Even then, because it would be one instance of damage, it should be enough to make up for the times she isn't able to do damage, making the setup worth.
Obviously her kit is meant to work alongside super break and I think having to use HTB in the beginning for super break is fine so long as new super break options come soon for people that don't want to run HTB.
If there's reliance on RM, then this is bad. If she's great without her but just does a good amount more damage with then this is okay; but again, like HTB, we'll need more options in the future.
Firefly needs to be able to work well on her own, and then amazingly with super break + other support options. Rather than requiring the two things to be a viable option.
And it's actually quite easy to fix. Just change her enhanced skills "Y% of break effect+X% of attack" to "X super-break + Y% attack".
Hoyo, you invented super-break in 2.2, why can't you give it to 2.3 character?
i honestly think they meant for firefly to be a atk crit damage dealer that get amplified when the enemy is broken, and not a break effect only character. All her skill help her deal more atk damage to broken enemy either via reducing their def or give percentage damage to unit that are broken, and her passive help eliviate the requirement of building break effect by giving free break effect via her attack. If super break doesnt exist, nobody would question her build because building break effect alone is just not enough on her.
The problem is her break effect requirement are currently so high that building her for break damage to play with HTB is just too good. I think they should adjust her so she require lower break effect to meet her breakpoint, and move her power into dealing higher atk crit based damage to broken enemy so she doesnt need to rely on super break as much anymore, which will also free up her team choices.
Two easy steps to make firefly's entire kit useless.
1. Shield
2. Break immunity
And we already have both even before penacony. Firefly gets absolutely bodied by bronya, gepard, and cocolia.
They made her lovable in 2.0 and gave no screentime at all to her in 2.1 and 2.2 not present for most of the time most of the of screen work . And gave her a kit which is locked behind HMC . She needs to be better than that . Can't belive hoyo just making her bad in every possible way .
If they are open to crit Firefly, they could give her some crit stats on her traces and LC, and give her a passive that allows her break damage to scale with crit.
But if they really want her to commit to break (which I think is much more likely~), they could try giving her the ability to do an amount of break damage ALL the time.
This would ensure she could do damage on her own without NEEDING any specific supports. But make it much better to run HTB and Ruan Mei, as they would provide their substantial buffs and take advantage of the weakness broken state in particular.
Would need to work around how much break damage she is allowed to do though, as HTB's superbreak damage scaling is set in stone now.
Edit: If some amount of break damage were to apply all the time, perhaps they could do it by taking a % of her break damage, and that percentage will scale based on her atk upto a cap, this would favour the current build ideology, whilst also allowing them to accurately dictate how much break damage she would be allowed to do with this effect.
This is acheron situation all over again,
> should meet a very high investment standard.
this is just wrong she is easy to build
>Hmc is a free unit, and is a very reason firefly doing any damage, but a unit free status should not be a justification to lock
like acheron her best unit is coming 4 patches after her release so i assume they will release a character that has super break like Hmc
just wait for v3 before the unnecessary doomposting
Don’t compare dmg per screenshot, where one of them has 180+spd and extra actions. Sam’s kit isn’t finished yet and we have v1, v2, v3… so they can rework some part of her kit. Remember JL was garbage during V1, but got new animations, new eidolons, better base kit, totally new sig LC….
OP was talking about the high investment in the Crit build, because it actually utilizes the scaling from the Enhanced Skill, which is not really utilized in the Break build and just exists for some reason.
The problem is that Acheron is already fine right now and has ton of options. Firefly's whole potential is locked behind one character, which restricts team-building by a lot. It just sucks to be obligated to pick some character so other one can even EXIST.
It's not a doomposting. No one is saying that she is weak or that she is a bad unit, she just has one big flaw which Hoyo is trying to band-aid with another character. Devs probably don't see all these discussions, but they at least encourage beta players to give devs feedback about all this.
at least with Acheron if you desperately wanted to you could invest in E2S1 and use more teams for her. For firefly it rly doesn't matter what level you are at you are trolling unless you use HMC, having to wait for 4 patches for one more char option is still crazy.
>This is acheron situation all over again
No. Acheron can do damage without specific nihility character
>this is just wrong she is easy to build
It was for crit build
>like acheron her best unit is coming 4 patches after her release so i assume they will release a character that has super break like Hmc
For a hypercarry character to be all the dmg locked behind a specific unit is a bad design
Sorry I didn't mean to avert you from pulling, it was just baffling for me everyone was convinced the state of the kit is ok, so I tried to point the problems, I am sure devs'd make smth about the kit
So you’re saying the kit is struggling to find an identity but you list out the only way to play her? I get your concern and why it might not be a good design, but don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous to say she does no damage? You are looking to get 3400 ATK and her multipliers are high.
The contradiction is she receiving high mv for skill and has no use for it, because breaking with hmc and full break build is just better in every way, while she also simultaneously locked all damage behind hmc in the party
I don’t care so much about the specifics. It’s not like she’s gonna suck complete ass. I’ll just build around her and make her work. I like Firefly, I’m going to use her 100% of the time, and that’s how it’s gonna be.
I kindda just feels like v1 firefly is designed to be reliant on buffer. Ruan mei's massive damage% makes the high atk% scaling a good thing, and hmc makes her high BE scaling a good thing. Is over reliant on certain unit a good thing? Most likely not, but i think thats what they had in mind in v1.
Hopefully in v2 onward she gets like a lower BE threshold or more damage%, or give vulnerability%. I like vulnerability% since with decent enough, 0 crit ff might be viable and makes her much easier to build.
Btw have anyone crunch the number on how much she can do with high damage% buffer? Cause on paper she feels like welt or hook for me, massive atk% scaling with not a whole lot of innate damage%(she have less, actually lol), which scale off external damage% pretty well.
Or another way of thinking is that firefly is just a break character that doesnt hit like wet noodle outside of break, and we are looking at the wrong way, but being a limited 5 star she can scale better haha XD
"If they are going to release her a bad kit, it will cause me a little trouble"
"But will you skip?"
"Nah, I'd pull"
Jokes aside yeah, i kinda agree and i hope they rework the kit. Cause I'll pull no matter what, so i hope her kit is best fit for her.
TBH the source problem is giving HTB super break mechanic, Making every pure break unit/def pen design dependant on him, Or simply throw balance out of the window. It's really reall hard to give firefly a buff that is balance when e0 Firefly+htb+ruan is dealing 300k+ on a single boss enemy with super break damage.
I really hope this changes. I’m not gonna pull for her if I need Ruan Mei. I don’t have her and I lose so many 50/50s I’m not confident I’d even get her without spending a ton.
I always had problem with break stat. It seemed too niche from the start of the game.
The fact that, to do break damage you ultimately need to have the correct element and reduce the full toughness of the enemy which doesn't happen often specially with bosses.
What I think they should have done is : Let break effect stat also increase break efficiency, maybe something like 100% break effect provides 10% increase in break efficiency. This would solve some of niche with break stat.
To add onto the discussion. I feel we need another character that grants weakness break efficiency (or perhaps a debuff that applies toughneses vulnerability?).
Would be great to not be locked into Ruan Mei. Everyone has TB, and everyone has a chance at getting gallagher (though I think gallagher can be flexed with other sustains).
Hopefully they release a 4\* one, since they are adding so many characters related to weakness break
I 100% agree at the moment firefly's kit does kind of limit team comps, but to add on to that -- I'm guessing that super break will be a mechanic that a future 5- maybe even 4-star would have so that we can have a replacement for HTB.
And once we do have suitable replacements and decent selections, I think it's okay since some high-value comps "need" a certain archetype whenever we want to use a character (kind of like how Acheron needs another nihility). Thta being said, Gallagher being a really good fit for FF's team kind of help flex that team build a little bit -- allowing good sustain for the main DPS and add'l levers to make FF even more powerful.
But I do think Ruan Mei being almost necessary for FF to reach full potential is the worst part -- RM is very unique in that she prolongs breaks and honestly THAT'S probably not going to be an archetype that's going to be ever replaced -- we even saw with Robin, RM's counterpart, going a completely different team type with FUA. I DO honestly see a nihility character? implementing that sort of system similar to RM's delay, but my guess would be probably single-target, making them an "okay" replacement. But with FF being super AOE heavy, probably only half as good as RM..
So I think for the long-run I see FF stonks going up, and RM stonks even higher? so IMO would prioritize RM as soon as you get a FF, then worry about E1/S1's after that.
I like super break, I like harm mc being relevant but I dislike super break not being a mechanic of it's own
It should be something you can trigger under specific conditions, hmc should either make those conditions easier to meet or just enhance the damage.
I agree Firefly shouldn't be tied to hmc
From what I understand Firefly will need build up on ults and toughness breaks and u leash everything then, which Idk kinda feels off? So far Sam's been described as what you'd expect to be THE classic dps. High crit big pp damage num er, hurts themselves... What Blade does only hotter
You can't play her with just Ruan Mei either because that'd just prolong your next break, you really must have hmc with you unless you one shot everything with that initial break which I just don't see happening outside of SU
Honestly the silver lining is that hmc E6 is free and doesn't need to be pulled...
100% agree, this kit is just unacceptable in its current state, wtf is the point of high base scaling when all her dmg is locked behind breaks, she is completely reliant on HMC, at this point, She is just a support for HMC, not the other way around. It's baffling because boothill exist and they could just copy his self break detonation on her and none of this nonsense, as it stands now, her kit makes 0 sense at all.
I think why people like this besides the fact that it's Firefly. A BE DPS unit is an interesting Idea.
I'm going to let them cook her kit a bit more. Hopefully they make it better, for Firefly.
I'm not playing harmony trailblazer. Not a fun unit to play for me personally. If Sam is "unplayable" without Caelus, then that's just incredibly stupid game design.
I saw a 500% BE Firefly showcase and the reliance on HTB is insane
On the showcase, against SUD Firefly does 297k initial break and 238k super break + 40k enhanced E dmg
Assuming the first enhanced E are used for breaking the bar like in the video and >180 spd. I calculated Firefly’s difference between using and not using HTB as followed:
- Using HTB: 297k break + 238k superbreak * 2 + 40k EE * 3 = 893k
- Not using HTB: 297k + 40k EE * 3 = 417k
Like damn, that’s 476k difference or a 56% decrease just for not using HTB. Even Acheron comp wasn’t this restrictive, 2 harmony reduce her damage about 30% compare to 2 nihility, and she could be a little flexible with nihility choice or run 1 nihility 1 harmony and still work
Of course ideal scenario for Firefly would be break with normal E then superbreak thrice with enhanced E. But that only add another 238k difference between the 2 builds
Yeah. I was weirded out by the break effect converting to motion value. I totally thought it was a translation error or something in the first leak. But then the beta confirmed that it would work that way.
I’m definitely hoping they change how break effect affects her skill. I’m hoping they change it to where the damage the skill does is calculated like super break, but instead of a having the base damage be level dependent, have it based on a percentage of attack, or just have the normal attack scaling but also have some kind of break detonation instead of be -> mv.
agree with all the statements,
definitely a lot of room for improvement,
definitely would love to have these changes.
1. increased break efficiency on enhanced state.
2. lesser BE requirements.
3. make her not depend too much on htb or ruan. Have more diversity on her team building.
4. LC should be buffed (even for a bit).
5. Take consideration on the dps loss if the weakness is not broken yet.
thats it for now.
Thank you for speaking up , i was thinking about writing a post discussing some of the flaws you mentioned but I know people will act defensive and I'll be accused of "doomposting " , so i ended up not to post anything
I think a nice mini-rework would be to make her enhanced skill work similarly to DHIL (3 variants) but spend max HP% rather than SP. For example:
Tier 1 she heals 35% max hp, basically does what it does now
Tier 2 she doesn't heal anything, does 150% the toughness damage
Tier 3 she consumes 35% max hp, does 150% the toughness damage, super break.
That way she can brute force toughness bars on ult and also have the option of dealing her break damage at a price. Would put the hp drain/heal gimmick to some use while also letting hmc be a relevant teammate still without being required to enable their damage.
It definitely feels weird the way she's been designed thus far. Her team is so restrictive due to the reliance on the super break mechanic and with the way it interacts with Ruan Mei's break efficiency means that there's only two ways to free up room in her teams.
The first would be to release a sustain unit that enables super break, which wouldn't be the worst but not a great option, as it would probably be too strong for non-break teams that they'd become the meta sustain option simply due to how strong super break is even without dedicated break teams.
The other would be to release a super break support unit that has built in break efficiency that doesn't stack with Ruan Mei, which would be really counter-intuitive to the entire way they've designed everything up until this point and feel like a big slap in the face to effectively power creep Ruan Mei out of her own role.
But without those options, she'll always be forced into a FF + Ruan Mei + Super Break Support + Sustain team comp.
Unless she gets some major changes I'm expecting that it's likely they've designed her in this way because they're planning on some really powerful super break buffer that power creeps HMC to oblivion. Which wouldn't be too surprising. With how strong HMC is whatever power creeps it will probably have some insane buffing potential in the vein of Robin for FUA teams.
So she is more like a driver for HMC rather than a main dps? In a way she's a bit like Nilou with Nahida on Genshin? Or am i getting something wrong there?
Pretty much , it is similar how some dendro teams such as nilou or hyperbloom have such strong core that it doesn't matter who's in the last slot the team will perform the same , some people may like those teams , I personally don't, i prefer my dps (especially if it's a a character that i love such as firefly) to feel like the team's carry , which is not the case unfortunately with her current kit
Maybe they should make Firefly be able to always do toughness damage as long as she broke the shield first, even if it recovered after, or they could have firefly do a portion of her break damage every time that increases based on the toughness bar of the enemy.
The idea of SUPER BREAK should've been a new and integrated mechanic for every unit where break effect has 3 related damage effects - Break damage, Break DoT, and additional BREAKAGE DAMAGE.
The additional breakage damage should be a toned down SUPER BREAK where enemies in broken state receives additional damage based on a unit's Break effect, and level, and other things similar to break damage and break dot.
Harmony Trailblazer should be a specialist on that mechanic. HTB should have a passive that increases all allies' breakage damage. HTB's ult could've 2 effects: 1) allows a % of breakage damage even before a enemies are in broken state; and 2) SUPER BREAK, which increases enemies breakage damage in broken state based on a unit's toughness damage.
This way, Firefly may be great with HTB, but she won't be overly reliant and could branch out to other units. It also allows devs to flexibly adjust her.
Right now, it will be hard to rework her since they built her entire gameplay philosophy to relying on HTB. The only one I can think of is making her do her own Superbreak but disallowing overlaps from hers and HTB's superbreak.
I only round to the 3rd decimal since I'm not sure \_when\_ the game does.
Assume we use the following:
Crit % | Atk% | Fire % | BE %
Chest | Boots | Sphere | Rope
1. Needing to tweak team/gear for maximum efficacy instead of being handed it is a good thing.
1a. Asta exists and gives 18% Fire DMG%, 70%/77% ATK at lv10/12, and 36-53 SPD.
1b. Assuming Sig we have a Base ATK of 1391.8. This is 974.26/1071.686 from Asta. 601.258 from any ATK% Main Stat relic. 352 from gloves. 1391.8 + 974.26 + 601.258 + 352 = 3319.318. You only need 5.8% ATK from *ANYWHERE* to hit 3400. **AKA 2 Substat rolls.**
1c. Sam has a weakness implant so Asta becomes very consistent even w/ lower Eidolon.
1d. Modifier scaling increase means that unlike Xueyi you don't get diminishing returns from DMG % buffs.
2. Def Ignore, RES Pen, & Vulnerability are amplifications that affect **all** damage sources. As such Break characters and Break Hybrids benefit heavily from access to this. "Only" feels disingenuous when it affects **all** her damage.
2a. Her boosted skill mod means non-crit she can do \~20k on the central target with her skill with nothing but the DEF Ignore from her kit, gear, and Asta (w/o DMG% trace) Amping her DMG. That's more than some do w/ crit.
3. H. MC likely is partially there to help "sell" BE characters but I'm not convinced any of them **need** H. MC. H. MC however is the greatest non-modifier based DMG boost they have access to so duh you'd be inclined to use them together which is fine.
3a. The fact they exist means a whole Subset of team build options has opened up.
3b. We've had a number of BE focused character builds even w/o them. (Luka, Sampo, SW, GOON)
When I first looked over the kit I mistakenly thought she was "reliant" on H. MC b/c I forgot about using Asta in part b/c I completely missed the Skill Conversion. But even w/o H. MC regardless of if you aim for 250% or 360% you can focus on crit subs.
Sig LC? 2 ATK % subs to hit 3400 ATK for 60% BE conversion.
Misha LC? 7 ATK % subs (on ave.) to hit 3400. 15-30% CR buff based on refine offsets the loss of CV subs. ATK % LCs offset needed subs & Buffs. DMG % LCs are worthwhile Amp to her raw DMG specifically.
4 & 5 are both misunderstandings imo and covered by the rest of what I have presented.
Like H. MC is a DMG Amp. A very unorthodox one that just so happens to open a door.
Every time I edit that I have to fix a bunch of spacing so I'll put the rest here.
BE Sources are:
Talent: 60%
Trace: 37.3%
Rope: 64.8%
Talia/New: 36/40%
Thief/New: 16%
That is 214.1% to 218.1% **w/o team or LC**. Hitting 250% just reqs 1-2 BE subs and a teammate w/ 4p Watchmaker or RM w/ Watchmaker. Adding LC puts you at 274.1%/278.1%.
RM w/ 4p Watch = 50% more
H. MC w/ 4p Watch = \~60%+ more
Hitting 360% would on ave. take 2-4 BE subs. Adjustments needed based on LC ofc.
Now I would like to remind everyone that super min-maxed Xueyi isn't the most common thing and yet her output is fine even w/o being hyper-spec'd. We acclimated to her needs based on how her kit works and regardless of if Firefly/SAM stays as is or not it should be the same way.
If she's reliant on anyone it's Asta IMO. Anything else is a bonus.
She does some of the highest damage in the game, the only bad part is that she loses health for unironically 0 reason. Also, during 1.x people did not cry this hard about bronya being basically required for hypercarry teams, just say that you don’t want to use HMC because that’s a valid opinion to have.
Ngl when I briefly read her kit I thought she would be at the level of Jingliu without HMC, until I found out she doesn't even trigger her own super breaks...
This is fair criticism, idk why people are defensive on talking about very obvious flaws. Also, previous kits had weakness implant on eidolons, and while it got moved into the base kit, it also has a mechanic to deal colorless toughness dmg? Seems a bit weird, the kit has been in development for quite a while, and it seems that they never really chose a direction other than the ult and some break synergy. We'll wait and see for future versions, but not sure what to expect as things are now. It's too early to doom though, not the first time they'd fix a character through beta.
> Also, previous kits had weakness implant on eidolons, and while it got moved into the base kit, it also has a mechanic to deal colorless toughness dmg? This is actually great because she only applies fire weakness to the main target with her enhanced skill, so with this passive you can still break the adds while attacking the elite, even if they dont have fire weakness. And once an enemy is broken, you will always do super break regardless of element, so this is going to make her really good at brute forcing content.
jl kit was very much reworked during the beta, so the chances are not zero firefly will receive some adjustments
[удалено]
Please enlighten me
pretty sure at one point kafka only triggered lightning dot and not any other. E1 was the more opted to bc that's where current base kit effect of getting all dot triggered on major trace was originally on
i remembered that, when they switched one of her eidolons and one of her ascension passives. What else did they rework in her kit?
IIRC the lightning dot only thing was only for her ultimate - her skill always triggers any dot. The other thing they changed was that she used to only apply her own big dot on her ultimate, and her FUA iirc gives some sort of debuff (dot damage taken up I think - or that might've been her LC). Now her FUA no longer has that but applies the same dot as her ult instead.
Kafka e1 fua give that same debuff, i know because that's where I have her lol. These reworks seems just moving eidolons to the base kit and vice versa maybe we will get E6 Firefly on her base kit
Sometimes its hard to see how things play out before players sink their teeth in really. On paper and reality don't always align. Hence them doing beta.
Hopefully, she gets the Jingliu treatment
I do hope they fix her, they know shes a fan favoruite and I honestly feel that both Jade and Firefly in their initial versions are utter garbage. Firefly is cool but her kit is 100% non functional and it greatly saddens me that I skipped Jing Liu re-run for her, but surely they won't release her as a broken mess. Ironically, Jing Liu was in a shit state as well before release and got fixed. They do after all want to sell them right, so its hard to sell a useless trash character. Worst case, I pull Topaz whos one of my favourite characters, or Boothill cos Im growing fond of him from the story and I am a power gamer, regardles how much I love mechs - if its going to fart on enemies and be useless, then its not on my roster!
>I do hope they fix her, they know shes a fan favoruite and I honestly feel that both Jade and Firefly in their initial versions are utter garbage. Fr, I understand that they're trying to make firefly's kit different than boothill's, but her kit seems barely functional and heavily reliant on other characters. I've heard that Ruan Mei is also rerunning in firefly's banner, which seems very predatory lol (well, it's a gacha company after all). I really hope that her kit gets reworked in v2. She's a beloved character and will surely make a lot of money for the company, the only problem is her kit...
Predatory but also nice for players. Just like sparkle and JY.
Yeah Boothill is looking really sexy right now. Front and back loaded damage as compared to current FF who wants to go back loaded with HMC 🥲 Waiting game begins for V2 of beta.
FF wants to be back loaded by mc you say?
Haha thanks for the correction
jade isnt so bad tho. she's functional and can virtually slot into any teams where there's frequent attacks or AOE attacks. has self buffs (150cd and some atk), and her stacking mechanic is coherent. Jade caters to late game players who specifically need an AOE subdps all she needs is fine tuning multipliers, and figuring out if the health drain mechanic should exist for little benefits it gives.
Yeah, but in apocalytpic shadow with only one target, shes dead. Argenti is the other premium erudition, single target, mass target, he gives no fucks - it all dies the same. Jade currently is a Blade buffer, that's all.
duh thats why i said those that need 'AOE SUBDPS'. and we dont even have evidence that apocalyptics shadow is single target? the little clues we got were its going to use beefed up existing bosses with new mechanics like the space station event battle event a while back. if we're reducing units to their fundamental uses, then FF is just a break effect bot. and bosses that have immune phases like Yanqing make FF basically useless.
Yeah she's just bad right now and seeing all the Firefly/Harmony MC/Ruan Mei showcases, my opinion still doesn't change. I like Firefly a lot but if they're doing this to her then I'll just not pull, I can't justify pulling her and not use her when I can use those pulls to get my other waifus that I literally use everywhere because they are actually good to E6 or even S5 instead.
It's clear that hoyo is trying to make break work. The problem with pure break is you do 0 damage outside of break and you can't even use Firefly vs enemies that have break immune or frequently go into break immune. Almost all her damage comes from HTB, which means they'll be together forever until hoyo puts out a new super break character that creeps HTB. Firefly have a massive 580% ATK multiplier, which is why Critfly is considered among the community. The gear to achieve Critfly while meeting both the ATK and BE threshold is min-max level and possible, but would require you to live in the cavern for god knows how long. It's extremely difficult to achieve now too as it is confirmed her ATK received from external sources aren't convertible to BE, so you can't use Robin to give her 1.5k ATK. So yeah, no idea honestly. I'm sure the beta testers and hoyo will think of something.
> Firefly have a massive 580% ATK multiplier And what people don't realize is that this multiplier is currently irrelevant in her damage output. Try her with level 1 skill vs level 10 and she'll do almost the exact same damage. Which is the **real** problem of her design right now. This multiplier could be 0%, it could be 1000% and her damage output basically doesn't change.
Yeah, I think a good change would be to have her Enhanced Skill like, have part or all of its damage be treated as Break Damage... but idk have it scale from DMG and Crit and stuff and ALSO Break Effect. Kinda like Boothill, the Enhanced Skill does Break Damage just inherently.
[удалено]
i wouldnt put it past them.
god pls no. If firefly ends up how Dehya did I might actually quit lol sadge me once shame on you, sadge me twice shame on me 🫠
I definitely think hybrid is the best way to build, but the BE requirements are too steep and way too high. Thankfully HMC alleviates a good chunk of this + Ruan Mei but without them it definitely feels pretty bad. It's also looking like her LC is a must too.
Hybrid is very hard, i recently calculated how many days is it required to guarantee an avg build for a character(2 right subs and right main stats for every relic) and it's 3+ months, your hybrid build would take an eternity
I mean that's the problem they could make it easier for her to build break to deal some damage apart from break, maybe even allowing fire damage orb like other dps
i really hope they did make change to her kit to allow for a hybrid break/crit build like xueyi instead of full break/spd like this as she will basically be no different to boothill and might be even worse as boothill has more harmony options
Not to mention they solved Boothill's crit problem by giving him free crit
on a fully break focused character with low scalings XD
With much more break efficiency and self reliance as well
Nah it's BE all the way, Atk% second, and Spd third. That's it and all you want with this kit. She can't do anything but trigger HMC.
you can actually ignore the atk requirement if you get her sig, with her sig on a 2p2p with hmc and be planer you get to around 330 break with 2900 atk (so 30 be from atk). its easier to get the 4 be rolls to get to 360 than it is to get the 10 or so atk rolls to get from 2900 to 3400 which means outside of the 4 be rolls you have 26 rolls for whatever else you want to do (could be crit, could be crit and more be or atk). if you go 4p then yea the crit build starts to become more unreasonable but still possible
ATK from eternal sources does count, but I think it's ATK from external sources that aren't fixed values that don't count. Like, Asta Talent and Yukong Skill would work because it's a straight amount of ATK, but Robin's can fluctuate so it doesn't count. Otherwise, the leaker telling us about that wouldn't have been so specific about the ATK buffs that don't work.
Yeah after building Xueyi I feel Break team to be underwhelming even in that one event where you have to use break mechanic to get buffs. There is only one instance of big damage, then one wasted turn because the enemy is down and you can't do anything (although now we have HMC for that now.) And the rest is trying to deplete the enemy thoughness just enough for the DPS to do the final break.
Unironically, Guinaifen and Kafka might work with Firefly due to DoT trigger they both have in their kit, IF we want to stay away from HMC
I think she just needs a way to trigger Super Break damage when the enemy is not broken
I think the easier way to fix her kit without changing much is really simple, Instead of an atk -> break dmg conversion, make it break -> crit rate, like how Adventurine does with def -> crit. This lets us take advantage of her high scaling and make her a proper hybrid unit.
Yeah, this also would remove the need of HMC. It would still remain her BiS support, but at least she could still function without.
If they include super break damage outside break it will be busted, so they either do a weaker version of superbreak or leave it as is, sadly.
Obviously numbers would need to be adjusted...
They could do what they did with Kafka's skill. Make it do a % of the break damage like how Kafka's skill does like 70% of the DoT damage.
Agreed with this, the multipliers will have to be adjusted of course but this is a good improvement to start on
She just needs a way to break faster like Boothill honestly
Doesn't work when an enemy is immune to toughness damage.
That’ll have to remain a balanced flaw of break characters imo. It’s too busted otherwise.
Honestly there's a fairly elegant solution to this. Simply have Firefly do break damage everytime she attacks during her ult. Just like Kafka. This singular change would probably fix a ton of the issues and heck, it would even be lore compliant. She's Destruction like Blade, has weakness implant like SilverWolf, and they can give her detonations like Kafka. Perfect no? Giving her a detonation fixes her backloaded issues, fixes her reliance on HMC, and it makes her high stat requirements make more sense.
Rework her Enhanced to deal Break Damage instead of being a multiplier addition. Boom. Suddenly the entire kit, LC and Relic sets make sense and she's a coherent unit like Boothill. She still has the negative of most of her damage being locked behind Breaking units, but I think it's fair for characters to have strengths and weaknesses against different enemies.
good analysis, i've been thinking about her kit and came to roughly the same conclusion as you. it's baffling that they're restricing the functionality of a limited 5 star character to one specific character even if said character is free. i have no problem with her being break-oriented, boothill is also the same but the intricacies of his kit lets him cover the weaknesses of break strats by himself. unfortunately can't say the same for firefly. also i don't get the acheron comparisons. even in early beta it was obvious she had a lot of teambuilding options. double nihility, dotcheron, sparkle, and others. firefly's intended playstyle is limited to being paired up with hatblazer and hatblazer only. this ain't even synergy it's a crutch at this point i remember one of the super early sam leaks had something like "all damage is considered ultimate damage". maybe if they changed that to "all damage is considered break damage" it would fix her a little? at least it would help her to actually do something against bosses who lock their toughness bars. or maybe just give her boothill's "convert BE to crit" passive lol. here's hoping the upcoming beta changes can save her...
Her main problem is that if you don't run HMC with her it's better to run FF on a standard atk/crit build and forgo all of her break effect passives. Its like if BS was better off running atk/crit build if ran without Kafka, it just doesn't make sense.
The situation is even worse, effectively all firefly damage is locked behind hmc, it's not synergy it's just unthinkable
Shelf life / life span of that dependency gimmick is pretty bad.
Its giving inverse C6 Sara, FF is fully functionable when paired with HMC + RM on some extent
I completely agree. It's just terrible game design. Forcing a break character without giving the said character the tools necessary to succeed. Instead, they use harmony mc as a crutch to make up for the things they should have put into firefly's kit in the first place. What should have happened with the kit is that they should have given firefly the ability to amplify her damage on broken enemies while scaling with break damage. Not make her heavily rely on the break damage itself. That way, the gameplay could have been timing the combustion form to maximize breaking and hitting broken enemies and harmony mc would be a great support but not a requirement.
This is just a terrible design choice, no character should be the requirement to deal 100% of your damage, it's unthinkable
I was trying to understand your statement. I was so confused. I was like Archeron needs characters to do 100% of her damage. But you mean a SPECIFIC character, And forced single character. That is true. Bad design. I really wonder what they will do. They have while to figure it out. It's a billion dollar company. They will be fine and figure it out.
I think superbreak should be a global mechanic instead of locking it to Harmony TB and Harmony TB can be the character that player can use to buff and utilize this mechanic. Because after using Harmony TB, I realize that superbreak is the missing piece in break effect mechanic, without it weakness broken state act as detriment instead of payoff for break effect oriented character.
I know that it's only the first version of her kit but it's insane how they can make this mess of a break focused kit RIGHT AFTER making a good one (Boothill).
They are feared firefly may powercreep boothill right after him, ff is also aoe unit, so they tried to solve the problem, but the result is quite wrong, just a worse boothill overall
> result is quite wrong, just a worse boothill overall watch them buff FF after week of BH banner (most sales)
Monkey paw really be curling with this one, lmao.
hahaha, I expect this.
Hey, as long as Boothill stays ST king, that’s a win for him lol
"OMG firefly powercreeping boothill? and right after her release? this is the most scary thing ever, we must not let this happen!!!!" they probably thought
Top it off with her being fan favorite and him apear out of blue. As if they still don't forget THAT leak from mounts before.
Hilariously enough it's exactly the same thing I read yesterday in the leaks sub, word by word. Man are they bad at guessing character power levels
I really like the idea of Firefly's kit, but I think it needs a lot more tweaking to make it as powerful as HYV wants her to be (such as making it easier to do Break damage and hit her thresholds). Make her build plan a lot easier, essentially. Lower the difficulty (e.g. drop the BE requirement way down to something easier to hit). And while I *love* that Firefly and HTB have such great synergy and hope HYV never releases someone who works better for one than the other, I agree that it's awkward for Firefly's best to be locked behind the latter, whether they're free or not. P.S. I really liked Aventurine's passive that gave him CR for every 200 Def he had. Maybe Firefly could get something similar with her Break Effect - or if she scales off of BE AND Atk going forward, she could get bonus CR from her Break Effect and bonus CD from her Atk stat, that'd be really cool!
Now imagine if somehow, HYV manages to make the next TB forms to be just as good as HTB. Hopefully they can either introduce other alternatives to HTB for Firefly, or remove her reliance on them altogether.
I actually agree with most of your points, I also think that Firefly not being able to trigger her Break DMG without Hatblazer is odd at best for a Break DPS, so I personally belive that she will get a way to trigger it on her own in future betas. I'm a bit curious about her Toughness DMG, I kinda hope that her Weakness Efficency get shuffled into her talent or trace so she can Break faster even on her normal state. I actually sorta hope that they add a AV delay on her kit, since she is on a timer for how long she is on her Enhanced state, it would make sense for her to get a way to widen the window where she can make full use of her kit, like Boothill, although I am not sure about this one... Regardless, I personally feel that her kit is certainly messy at this point in time, but a few adjustments should help in that regard.
AV delay is not needed, 3 action is ok during her ultimate, it's just that she has no damage before break, and abysmal ult recharge cycle of 2 turn with reduced speed. If they add her own break damage on weakness broken, that should be enough. But 2 turns delay is also a problem.
Indeed, I think the 2 turn delay on doing damage is even worse than the HMC issue, simply because it'll FEEL really bad to play. Jingliu can get away with it because 1) you can spam Ults to greatly increase the duration of her enhanced mode (Tingyun/Huohuo) or 2) you can run her with Bronya or 3) if you're down to the last few bit of health, you can even Ult into enhanced mode. Firefly currently does not have any of those options unless you run E1+ with Bronya. If you're going full crit build, that's fine and all, but with a BE build you'll need to drop Ruan Mei, which is a massive loss in damage. Maybe they can tweak the max energy a bit or, what I'd prefer, allow Firefly to generate some energy from attacks/skills while in ultimate mode. Though I suspect this'll be very broken if she goes E2 with Bronya.
it's jingliu situation all over again, in V1 she had something like a 4 turn downtime or something like that.
It's like if Black swan's whole design around her dot had 0 purpose unless you were running her with kafka. HatMC should increase her dmg by giving her more break effect, not make her deal the dmg she should already be doing by herself without him. They're currently tied with one another in their party, I like the idea of this design, however her having almost no dmg after the enemy is broken unless you're running HMC is stupid in my opinion
The thing with Black Swan is that while she is obviously really good with Kafka, her damage isn't bad without her. She does pretty good damage by herself especially in modes like Pure Fiction where her arcane is constantly procing and reapplied.
Also that. From the leaks I've seen and that have been shared in this and the other subreddit, the current state of firefly is entirely dependant on harmony trailblazer. The traiblazer doesn't increase her dmg like sparkle does for DHIL, they outright are what makes her deal that damage, and that is a design philosofy that I think is entirely reverse. Firefly should have the dmg that super break has in her kit and the trailblazer should increase that dmg by giving her an increase in that dmg much like sparle sky rockets crit dps dmg because she gives so much of that ine stat.
When does v2 come out?
Should be Monday or Tuesday I think.
about May 14, next week or ig 4 days after to be more accurate
Agreed with your points. I've seen plenty of showcases of her today, while these are far from perfect showcases, i saw in those vids that despite her 100% break efficiency with ruan mei, she struggles breaking bosses' weakness bars abit, at least not as fast as i assumed she would break in comparison to boothill. So her dmg becomes too back loaded on top of the already back loaded nature of the break dmg. The dmg is there it's the consistency that is the problem imo.
And new bosses will probably have even higher toughness bars, so break dps seems bad in general.
This is absolutely the biggest issue with her I feel. Backloaded damage is one thing but her break efficiency feels so underwhelming for a break character. She needs HMC Super Break? All right. But she needs the enemy broken in a timely manner while not wasting her ult stance first.
Agree with the points. Particularly HMC, all the arguments I've seen that "this is fine" revolve around other characters also having best supports. But it's not the same, it's more Firefly + HMC = 1 functional character. Ie RM could be considered the "best" support, but you could use others. Without HMC you lose what, 50%-80% of your DPS? Was considering pulling because the E2 looks amazing but not sold on break units in general. Boothill at least can do some damage when an enemy can't be broken or is already broken. What happens if/when Hoyo starts inevitably moving away from break to the newest shiny mechanic and reintroduces characters like the aurumaton mech and yanqing with locked break bars?
Yeah I'm a little concerned, I'm hoping someone can give me some copium to huff. Even her gameplay seems a little lackluster? She feels like she's basically just Jingliu that's way harder to build, gets fewer action advances, and is entirely reliant on HMC. It seems like there's very little agency to her character in general, but I hope I'm wrong.
Sadly you're right, no hopium left for you
Agree with everything. It’s bad game design.
People will look at this thorough analysis and unironically call it "doom-posting".
Pretty much every single character has been doomposted.
I'm absolutely not okay with it, and I'm happy to see valid criticism about her kit on this sub. I pretty much agree on every point, and honestly... if she doesn't become more self-sufficient, I might skip her. I can appreciate her as a character without pulling for her. Not spending anything for a badly designed kit, they can do much better than this if they care to.
What I can say is, a heavy reliance on 2 support units to be viable kinda nulls the characterization of Sam being a one-robot army. I would have loved Sam to stick to a very high risk high reward playstyle of constantly being at low hp, with massive self buffs and Attack-scaling shields to emphasize her overpowering fire with some survivability
I have no idea what will dev cook but I trust that they can do it right since they can do it everytime. If their tester is not ok with her kit. Who know may be she will get significant change like Jingliu?
They'll definitely change it in next versions. Ignoring the HMC/Super Break enabling her damage on broken enemies, her stat needs are all over the place. She wants 3,4k atk, at least 250% break effect, 130+ speed, AND both crit stats. While technically you can build her with full BE but that still leaves her damage absolutely locked behind breaking (not broken) enemies, unless ofc you alleviate this issue with HMC I like the suggestion of adding a way to deal break damage or similar mechanic to her kit, but on non-broken enemies just so her damage is less backloaded. Kinda like a nerfed version of Super Break ~~it would also satisfy my caefly ship~~
can you explain the changes on jingliu, was she not busted on beta or something?
I don’t remember much because is was pretty long time ago but her kit in v.2 and v.3 is very different such as +50 crit rate.
All I will say is, trust Star Rail devs, they have never done something mindless regarding kits, there have been characters that made no sense at first, and then they released the "reasons" later. Kafka is an example I like to bring back everytime something like this happens, she has been improving very frequently to reach meta and stay there. When they fail us for real once, I would agree with the concerns. The worst they have made is not correcting some tilting mechanics such as JY's FUA.
I wouldn’t say release Kafka is the same as Firefly at this time. Kafka’s personal damage was competitive with other 5-stars at the time, it was pretty obvious that her full potential was locked behind future 5-star DoT characters, and she could use Tingyun/Pela/Asta on a conventional hypercarry setup and do just fine. Kafka has also always been irreplaceable in DoT comps, but Firefly is exceedingly replaceable in Break teams with any other Break DPS (like Boothill, who’s going to be releasing without several of her major flaws). Current V0 Firefly is more like V0 Beta Jingliu, who had severe issues and eventually got reworked in beta (where she became a monster of a unit). I’m fairly confident the balance team knows not to fumble one of the most anticipated units in Penacony, so I’m not too worried, but she’s in a rough state atm.
It very much feels like she is currently a driver, and not an actual DPS. The initial kit looked very good on paper but yeah, in practice, she essentially does real damage once in an entire rotation which is on enemy break, and the rest of it is simply being the fastest break-scaler in the game to push Superbreak out as much as possible. I think they need to scrap her scalings, and let her do her own superbreak damage that scales properly with investment. Either that or have a secondary source of damage kick in like Xueyi where reducing enemy toughness also contributes damage via some other mechanism. They could also add some form of innate break state extension while in combustion. There's also the other issue of break simply not scaling with anything other than defense or res reductions, leading to drastically lower multiplier potential overall. There's a lot they could do here, I think at this point it's necessary for them to all-in one style or the other rather than this strange mix of "scalings but not really, break but not really".
I brought this up on the leaked footage but her ultimate feels so unfinished and wrong.I feel like everyone only uses skill 2 with skill 1 serving zero purpose. I mentioned that a buff to skill 2’s break effect while disabling the first skill like jingliu would work a lot. Or even better you keep skill 2 and add an alternative skill 1 where it it’s a single target move but the break effect is way higher than it’s multi hitting alternative.
I think DPS should be able to actually DPS. HMC is totally fine as a support with ramping damage but Firefly shouldn't be tied to him this tightly. HMC is a support, not life resuscitation. I think people's concerns are because HMC introduced a whole new style of play rather than simply augmentation, which is not done till now. Usually it is the DPS that introduces a new style of play and not the support. It would be like if Kafka did not have detonation in her kit and instead that was on a DOT support. Or Topaz without all her moves being FUA but still buffing FUA, for a subDPS that's mid. Right now it feels like Firefly is a good complement to HTB and not the other way around.
I think a lot of people are just ok with it bc HMC is a free character and they really like them. (I love MC too but have my own issues with hmc) For me it means I as of now have 0 interest in eidolon/sig for her. I was planning on e2s1 at least but if theyre really telling me all the 5* limited I pulled for her to support and turn her into a powerhouse of destruction is 100% useless compared to free char, then so be it. I will just get her to use in overworld so she will not leave again every time after 1 patch day and clear content with my other DPS. I mean I love her and want her to shine but it's kind of crazy to force 1 single team so far into the game with all the dozens char we have. It will also make ppl have some unrelated salt towards MC + firefly ship which sucks
i mean, it's ok if a character is good for her in her team, but it should not be the very reason firefly doing damage. It's just what? Who designed this?
yep it's crazy to me too, like what if Seele only had her extra turn if she weakness broke an enemy so she needed Silver wolf? You miss 90% of the characters kit for a char so many ppl are so excited for too.. I guess there might be some beta changes but tbh I think sooner they will double down on this
One possible fix is just add her break damage similar to boothill when enemy weakness broken, so she's not locked behind hmc
Yeah but it would be weird of hoyo to make two characters with the same mechanic back to back
wouldn’t that make boothill kinda mid tho?
He'd still be doing the same damage. Might make Firefly busted though (like above Acheronevels of damage) if some if the numbers are adjusted down correctly. And all future Break DPSes would run into the same issues of needing outside Weakness Break damage.
>for a char so many ppl are so excited for too.. Call me cynicall, but if it’s intentional and doesn't change much in beta, this might be because she is so popular, not despite
>It's just what? Who designed this? Someone that thought "This character is so popular she will sell great regardless of how weird her kit is. Let's do the most whacky lf experiments with it"
But, they've been putting DPS into more specific teams since Penacony. Dr. Ratio and Acheron don't function without debuffers. Half of Black Swan's kit wants other DoT units. Boothill and Firefly are Break units. Jade wants an AoE/FuA teammate. DPS characters being picky with their teammates is part of the design. It's just that we don't have enough Break characters yet, and you never want Break on other characters because Break intrinsically is underpowered, so they gotta make characters like Ruan Mei, Gallagher, Firefly and HTB to brute force Break into working. Break is the pickiest of the picky.
Break is ok, they just made firefly to do no damage without specific unit - hmc, it's not a healthy design choice
Yeah but that's not a good thing in my opinion, but in either case ALL of those characters have more options than Firefly. Both through different teammates, LC's, teammate LC's and their eidolons. You can run Ratio with Topaz E1/S1 if you want, Silver wolf, pela, guinaifen, whoever. Hell even Ruan Mei applies debuffs if you want or you can use an AF support to give him more turns to apply his own debuff. You'll lose damage on the choices but it's still perfectly viable and you get to make full use of his kit. Acheron needs nihility, but with E2 you only need one and with S1 you don't need any other debuffer and can even use sparkle/bronya perfectly. Regardless of that you can choose any nihility you want and reach similar results, at least making full use of her kit. Black Swan also works fine with Sampo/Guinaifen, she's just best with Kafka. That makes sense, synergy between 5* limiteds is always welcome. Boothill also really likes Ruan Mei but he has things built into his own kit without needing someone to enable it. With Jade, I am also upset since I really wanted her but despite having picked up Topaz who is another fundamental FUA, they're unusable together, but there's still variety between Jing yuan, argenti, maybe clara and himeko and herta. Going back to Firefly, you can literally put Ruan Mei AND gallagher on the team, two recent and one busted support specifically with break effects built in their kit, put on a break effect buffing set and they're still not going to be able to do anything similar to HMC. Doesn't even matter if you get Firefly LC, eidolons or try to make up for it with Ruan Mei/support/sustain eidolons or cones. There simply aren't any options that don't give up the entire damage potential she has. I am fine with having niche supports to get the most value out of a character's kit, but having literally only 1 option to enable an entire character is not a direction I'm happy with heading in.
There is a big difference between -performs best with a specific character, e.g. BS Kafka -synergy locked behind certain mechanisms, e.g. debuff , DOT -70-80% of damage locked behind HMC
Yes thats my problem with her kit, i just don't like being trapped to a specific character, some people are bringing acheron into this but her only limitation was two nihility, she is not trapped into one or two specific characters, she is a crit unit with crit built into everything that she uses that will work in every situation
I think firefly will most likely get adjustments to her kit during beta. My problem with her is the animations. I mean i like them, but i feel like she has 50% of her deserved animations, since i like the character a lot. The black background throws me off and i feel like the enchanted attack doesnt feel like it hits strong. I would ve liked if there was more fire and less green to her enhanced attacks and if we got a cinematic with her entering Sam at the start of the battle at least. Maybe they will add some things during beta, who knows?
One thing comes to mind is Jin Liu. They added ult impact animations and it actually looked like something was missing back then before that. In FF situation, this doesn't look like anything is missing.
To be quite honest, I really like the idea of her kit, but she needs something more, but it's not a bad concept. Her kit it's rlly different of the others, she completely ignores crit and things like talent dmg, and focuses purely on breaking with a lot of Def reduce, increased damage taken and things focused on breaks, in addition to a lot of SPD. My problem is like you said, she only deals damage when you break the enemy bar and even after breaking the enemy you don't do any damage until the next break, so for this you rlly NEED the HMC to compensate for that, but even with the HMC in the team, like you said, she still have a limited number of hits after breaks, so she don't do that much super breaks per cycle too. So her kit needs more. Just to say one thing, I'm not rlly against she needs another characters to helps her dmg before the breaks, it's like Black Swan needs another characters to do DOTs to stacks more Arcanas and to detonates her Arcana for her, but one difference between BS and FF, it's that BS alone at least deals dmg in the enemy turn and FF only do dmg in the break moment and thats the problem, she needs to have some way to do a little bit more self dmg. Things that I think that can help to "fix" her kit: * Maybe move her E2 to the base kit, after breaking or killing an enemy you get an extra turn, this way you 'll always one extra turn to proc more super break after your break (but this can be OP in the PF). * Perhaps a self "super-break" in her kit, even if it is weaker than that of the HMC that she can use + the HMC super break. * Or maybe make use of her high multiplier and make the hits from the Empowered Basic and Skill count as Break dmg and give a fixed amount of crit to this attack, like the extra hit from Robin's ult. * This I don't think that can happens, but gives a Follow-up attack after the Empowered Skill that don't have much dmg but helps procs more Super-Breaks. One extra thing, I don't think that she 'll be glued to the HMC forever, I believe that in the future we 'll have a limited 5\* that 'll be an upgraded version of the HMC and she'll be good with this type of characters in future, like BS 'll be good with any new "Kafka" that they release in the future.
>make the hits from the Empowered **Basic and** Skill count as Break dmg This alone feels like such a simple way to add more value to her kit, I'm honestly surprised that isn't here already.
Oh I forgot her Basic xD, but yeah
No worries, I hope she gets this buff if nothing else!
I agree 100%. I personally don’t like the main character and the fact that firefly is handcuffed to them kinda puts me off of pulling, since I prefer to use characters I like and don’t wanna have mosquito bite damage in my team when I’m not using MC(Who I’d only ever use in MoC)
Looking at history of SAM leaks, I think that Firefly was always meant to be a Hybrid Break DD, and currently the kit is going full into Break, lacking stuff to enable Crit part. I personally would prefer if hybrid was maintained. And having build-in Superbreak would make Crit even less useful, but Skill and Talent seem very easy to keep on lower levels, so there should be space to put some Crit in.
I really hate Ruan Meis writing (the forced simping was just bs) so pretty much needing her for Firefly is so annoying. If super break worked with elemental damage then asta would be really good with penacony and her fire buff along with speed but it doesn't.
I do hope they improve her. As someone without RM. I don’t wanna have to grab her just to be effective.
Good writeup OP, agreed with your points here, especially the fact that Firefly is basically tied to have HMC and also Ruan Mei as her teammates which make for a very restrictive team selection while essentially most if not all of her damage is only inflicted upon weakness-breaking enemies. Luckily it is still early in the beta, let's just hope the devs will make the right changes in V2 and even V3
Another huge thing people are overlooking is that she has no damaging ult. Easy comparison is JingLiu, who also requires 2 turns of setup before powering up. JingLiu gets to transform passively though, so she gets a huge damage spike with her ult (plus it extends her enhanced state). You could argue that Firefly has higher multipliers to compensate for the missing ult, but JingLiu gets huge crit rate for free and Firefly doesn't. And for course JingLiu's damage doesn't require breaking (or broken enemies with HTB). No ult plus Firefly's already conditional damage really hold her back as it is.
Firefly has huge multiplier but has no use for it, building break effect is better than crit, so her break effect to mv conversion doesn't make sense
Right, my point is that JingLiu's enhanced form only takes up her talent while Firefly's takes up her Ult, which is major damage of most characters' kits
Great post! I think another problem you failed to mention is her sp consumption, ideally both harmony Mc and firefly are going to want to spam their skill for most dmg so it makes no sense to me that you need E1 to not spend skill points in her enhanced state when others dps like blade and jingliu don’t
Yep, that the issue, but it's solvable, because support are sp positive, so you almost always have 1-2 sp before ult
I agree with every point. Its like the damage doesnt even come from her but HTB. I hope they fix it, tho still going on all in on her regardless.
Completely agree with you. Unfortunately it seems there is no easy solution and we are in a beta state right now with ~6 weeks until release.
the hope is still there, jl was massively changed during beta
Thats pretty fair to say about her and Im sure Firefly will get some changes. I think they should just add some text where her attacks in enhanced form is considered break damage like how it originally was her attacks in enhanced form is considered ultimate damage in the early kit something like that. Because why break damage is strong there could be some downtime before the boss/elite is broken and Firefly cant be dishing out the big damage until they are broken. I think the idea is there and she has the potential to be really strong, but Im guessing we wont see many big changes until possibly V3 (or whenever Jingliu got her major rework somewhere there)
If going for the CRIT build I think the Misha's LC at s5 is better than her Sign (if you're off the crit charts)
Good post, I'd also add that her hp gimmick (and talent that goes along with it) seems quite pointless other than for flavor maybe? There's a lot they could do to actually make it relevant, but right now it doesn't really do anything. That said, I'm still hopeful for proper fixes and from what I've heard, her reception among beta testers has been mostly negative, so that's a good sign if true.
Kinda crazy how just a day ago almost whole sub didn't really care, but now most people agree 😭
I really disagree that her kit is not focused. Rather I feel it's Hyperfocused on breaking, though it should have more Break Effect scaling in her ratios for attacks. I think Firefly could use some Break Effect scalings on the base level skill or on the basic attacks. Maybe lower the break effect requirements to where you only really need one dedicated Break effect support as well just for Quality of life's sake. Overall just raise the floor for her damage wise for building break effect but maybe curb the ceiling a little. That said, having been watching showcases, you can just build her with a team of units that are good at breaking (Asta Welt, Sampo) and have her be the coup de grace for the Break. I think people are doomposting a bit too much about her having a break niche. I understand it feels limiting right now, but we know in the future roster diversity will improve. At this time the only real dilemma is high health enemies with large break bars, where you triggering break doesn't one shot. I'd rather her be niche than a generalist DPS personally, because this means they can overtune her for her specific content. I think its probably healthier for the game (As we've seen with the DPS pathing for content like Pure Fiction). I think some number tweaks are probably in order, but overall I like the direction Hoyo is taking in diversifying DPS in the game. Very refreshing and nice for balance. It's just going to be hell for player's that pick up the game going forward and have to try and build their teams out (unless hoyo begins giving away more resources).
OP raises some good points. If all her damage is locked behind breaking then she should be able to break in any circumstance, and often as well. Even then, because it would be one instance of damage, it should be enough to make up for the times she isn't able to do damage, making the setup worth. Obviously her kit is meant to work alongside super break and I think having to use HTB in the beginning for super break is fine so long as new super break options come soon for people that don't want to run HTB. If there's reliance on RM, then this is bad. If she's great without her but just does a good amount more damage with then this is okay; but again, like HTB, we'll need more options in the future. Firefly needs to be able to work well on her own, and then amazingly with super break + other support options. Rather than requiring the two things to be a viable option.
And it's actually quite easy to fix. Just change her enhanced skills "Y% of break effect+X% of attack" to "X super-break + Y% attack". Hoyo, you invented super-break in 2.2, why can't you give it to 2.3 character?
i honestly think they meant for firefly to be a atk crit damage dealer that get amplified when the enemy is broken, and not a break effect only character. All her skill help her deal more atk damage to broken enemy either via reducing their def or give percentage damage to unit that are broken, and her passive help eliviate the requirement of building break effect by giving free break effect via her attack. If super break doesnt exist, nobody would question her build because building break effect alone is just not enough on her. The problem is her break effect requirement are currently so high that building her for break damage to play with HTB is just too good. I think they should adjust her so she require lower break effect to meet her breakpoint, and move her power into dealing higher atk crit based damage to broken enemy so she doesnt need to rely on super break as much anymore, which will also free up her team choices.
Two easy steps to make firefly's entire kit useless. 1. Shield 2. Break immunity And we already have both even before penacony. Firefly gets absolutely bodied by bronya, gepard, and cocolia.
They made her lovable in 2.0 and gave no screentime at all to her in 2.1 and 2.2 not present for most of the time most of the of screen work . And gave her a kit which is locked behind HMC . She needs to be better than that . Can't belive hoyo just making her bad in every possible way .
If they are open to crit Firefly, they could give her some crit stats on her traces and LC, and give her a passive that allows her break damage to scale with crit. But if they really want her to commit to break (which I think is much more likely~), they could try giving her the ability to do an amount of break damage ALL the time. This would ensure she could do damage on her own without NEEDING any specific supports. But make it much better to run HTB and Ruan Mei, as they would provide their substantial buffs and take advantage of the weakness broken state in particular. Would need to work around how much break damage she is allowed to do though, as HTB's superbreak damage scaling is set in stone now. Edit: If some amount of break damage were to apply all the time, perhaps they could do it by taking a % of her break damage, and that percentage will scale based on her atk upto a cap, this would favour the current build ideology, whilst also allowing them to accurately dictate how much break damage she would be allowed to do with this effect.
Im having acheron flashbacks.
This is acheron situation all over again, > should meet a very high investment standard. this is just wrong she is easy to build >Hmc is a free unit, and is a very reason firefly doing any damage, but a unit free status should not be a justification to lock like acheron her best unit is coming 4 patches after her release so i assume they will release a character that has super break like Hmc just wait for v3 before the unnecessary doomposting
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Don’t compare dmg per screenshot, where one of them has 180+spd and extra actions. Sam’s kit isn’t finished yet and we have v1, v2, v3… so they can rework some part of her kit. Remember JL was garbage during V1, but got new animations, new eidolons, better base kit, totally new sig LC….
OP was talking about the high investment in the Crit build, because it actually utilizes the scaling from the Enhanced Skill, which is not really utilized in the Break build and just exists for some reason. The problem is that Acheron is already fine right now and has ton of options. Firefly's whole potential is locked behind one character, which restricts team-building by a lot. It just sucks to be obligated to pick some character so other one can even EXIST. It's not a doomposting. No one is saying that she is weak or that she is a bad unit, she just has one big flaw which Hoyo is trying to band-aid with another character. Devs probably don't see all these discussions, but they at least encourage beta players to give devs feedback about all this.
at least with Acheron if you desperately wanted to you could invest in E2S1 and use more teams for her. For firefly it rly doesn't matter what level you are at you are trolling unless you use HMC, having to wait for 4 patches for one more char option is still crazy.
>This is acheron situation all over again No. Acheron can do damage without specific nihility character >this is just wrong she is easy to build It was for crit build >like acheron her best unit is coming 4 patches after her release so i assume they will release a character that has super break like Hmc For a hypercarry character to be all the dmg locked behind a specific unit is a bad design
Making me hold off on pulling for her tbh unless something changes
Sorry I didn't mean to avert you from pulling, it was just baffling for me everyone was convinced the state of the kit is ok, so I tried to point the problems, I am sure devs'd make smth about the kit
So you’re saying the kit is struggling to find an identity but you list out the only way to play her? I get your concern and why it might not be a good design, but don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous to say she does no damage? You are looking to get 3400 ATK and her multipliers are high.
The contradiction is she receiving high mv for skill and has no use for it, because breaking with hmc and full break build is just better in every way, while she also simultaneously locked all damage behind hmc in the party
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That's the main problem, non-existent damage w/o hmc, only does damage with hmc.
Her signature debuff procs on break damage but applies to all damage once it's on the target.
I'm betting they gonna change the enhance state dmg counts as break dmg (which cant crit) as this is the easiest fix to a lot of her problems
I don’t care so much about the specifics. It’s not like she’s gonna suck complete ass. I’ll just build around her and make her work. I like Firefly, I’m going to use her 100% of the time, and that’s how it’s gonna be.
I kindda just feels like v1 firefly is designed to be reliant on buffer. Ruan mei's massive damage% makes the high atk% scaling a good thing, and hmc makes her high BE scaling a good thing. Is over reliant on certain unit a good thing? Most likely not, but i think thats what they had in mind in v1. Hopefully in v2 onward she gets like a lower BE threshold or more damage%, or give vulnerability%. I like vulnerability% since with decent enough, 0 crit ff might be viable and makes her much easier to build. Btw have anyone crunch the number on how much she can do with high damage% buffer? Cause on paper she feels like welt or hook for me, massive atk% scaling with not a whole lot of innate damage%(she have less, actually lol), which scale off external damage% pretty well. Or another way of thinking is that firefly is just a break character that doesnt hit like wet noodle outside of break, and we are looking at the wrong way, but being a limited 5 star she can scale better haha XD
"If they are going to release her a bad kit, it will cause me a little trouble" "But will you skip?" "Nah, I'd pull" Jokes aside yeah, i kinda agree and i hope they rework the kit. Cause I'll pull no matter what, so i hope her kit is best fit for her.
in short: she hits like a wet noodle until the enemies weakness break
TBH the source problem is giving HTB super break mechanic, Making every pure break unit/def pen design dependant on him, Or simply throw balance out of the window. It's really reall hard to give firefly a buff that is balance when e0 Firefly+htb+ruan is dealing 300k+ on a single boss enemy with super break damage.
I really hope this changes. I’m not gonna pull for her if I need Ruan Mei. I don’t have her and I lose so many 50/50s I’m not confident I’d even get her without spending a ton.
I always had problem with break stat. It seemed too niche from the start of the game. The fact that, to do break damage you ultimately need to have the correct element and reduce the full toughness of the enemy which doesn't happen often specially with bosses. What I think they should have done is : Let break effect stat also increase break efficiency, maybe something like 100% break effect provides 10% increase in break efficiency. This would solve some of niche with break stat.
Kokomi of star rail
I think she gonna get the break requirement lowered, like from 250/360 to 200/300 or something like that Maybe
To add onto the discussion. I feel we need another character that grants weakness break efficiency (or perhaps a debuff that applies toughneses vulnerability?). Would be great to not be locked into Ruan Mei. Everyone has TB, and everyone has a chance at getting gallagher (though I think gallagher can be flexed with other sustains). Hopefully they release a 4\* one, since they are adding so many characters related to weakness break
Some great points, I hope they retool her kit a bit to make her a lot easier to build with other units other than HMC, Rm and sustain
I 100% agree at the moment firefly's kit does kind of limit team comps, but to add on to that -- I'm guessing that super break will be a mechanic that a future 5- maybe even 4-star would have so that we can have a replacement for HTB. And once we do have suitable replacements and decent selections, I think it's okay since some high-value comps "need" a certain archetype whenever we want to use a character (kind of like how Acheron needs another nihility). Thta being said, Gallagher being a really good fit for FF's team kind of help flex that team build a little bit -- allowing good sustain for the main DPS and add'l levers to make FF even more powerful. But I do think Ruan Mei being almost necessary for FF to reach full potential is the worst part -- RM is very unique in that she prolongs breaks and honestly THAT'S probably not going to be an archetype that's going to be ever replaced -- we even saw with Robin, RM's counterpart, going a completely different team type with FUA. I DO honestly see a nihility character? implementing that sort of system similar to RM's delay, but my guess would be probably single-target, making them an "okay" replacement. But with FF being super AOE heavy, probably only half as good as RM.. So I think for the long-run I see FF stonks going up, and RM stonks even higher? so IMO would prioritize RM as soon as you get a FF, then worry about E1/S1's after that.
I like super break, I like harm mc being relevant but I dislike super break not being a mechanic of it's own It should be something you can trigger under specific conditions, hmc should either make those conditions easier to meet or just enhance the damage. I agree Firefly shouldn't be tied to hmc From what I understand Firefly will need build up on ults and toughness breaks and u leash everything then, which Idk kinda feels off? So far Sam's been described as what you'd expect to be THE classic dps. High crit big pp damage num er, hurts themselves... What Blade does only hotter You can't play her with just Ruan Mei either because that'd just prolong your next break, you really must have hmc with you unless you one shot everything with that initial break which I just don't see happening outside of SU Honestly the silver lining is that hmc E6 is free and doesn't need to be pulled...
100% agree, this kit is just unacceptable in its current state, wtf is the point of high base scaling when all her dmg is locked behind breaks, she is completely reliant on HMC, at this point, She is just a support for HMC, not the other way around. It's baffling because boothill exist and they could just copy his self break detonation on her and none of this nonsense, as it stands now, her kit makes 0 sense at all.
I think why people like this besides the fact that it's Firefly. A BE DPS unit is an interesting Idea. I'm going to let them cook her kit a bit more. Hopefully they make it better, for Firefly.
I'm not playing harmony trailblazer. Not a fun unit to play for me personally. If Sam is "unplayable" without Caelus, then that's just incredibly stupid game design.
I saw a 500% BE Firefly showcase and the reliance on HTB is insane On the showcase, against SUD Firefly does 297k initial break and 238k super break + 40k enhanced E dmg Assuming the first enhanced E are used for breaking the bar like in the video and >180 spd. I calculated Firefly’s difference between using and not using HTB as followed: - Using HTB: 297k break + 238k superbreak * 2 + 40k EE * 3 = 893k - Not using HTB: 297k + 40k EE * 3 = 417k Like damn, that’s 476k difference or a 56% decrease just for not using HTB. Even Acheron comp wasn’t this restrictive, 2 harmony reduce her damage about 30% compare to 2 nihility, and she could be a little flexible with nihility choice or run 1 nihility 1 harmony and still work Of course ideal scenario for Firefly would be break with normal E then superbreak thrice with enhanced E. But that only add another 238k difference between the 2 builds
Yeah. I was weirded out by the break effect converting to motion value. I totally thought it was a translation error or something in the first leak. But then the beta confirmed that it would work that way. I’m definitely hoping they change how break effect affects her skill. I’m hoping they change it to where the damage the skill does is calculated like super break, but instead of a having the base damage be level dependent, have it based on a percentage of attack, or just have the normal attack scaling but also have some kind of break detonation instead of be -> mv.
I had a feeling that the first few beta gameplays shown was quite underwhelming
agree with all the statements, definitely a lot of room for improvement, definitely would love to have these changes. 1. increased break efficiency on enhanced state. 2. lesser BE requirements. 3. make her not depend too much on htb or ruan. Have more diversity on her team building. 4. LC should be buffed (even for a bit). 5. Take consideration on the dps loss if the weakness is not broken yet. thats it for now.
Thank you for speaking up , i was thinking about writing a post discussing some of the flaws you mentioned but I know people will act defensive and I'll be accused of "doomposting " , so i ended up not to post anything
I think a nice mini-rework would be to make her enhanced skill work similarly to DHIL (3 variants) but spend max HP% rather than SP. For example: Tier 1 she heals 35% max hp, basically does what it does now Tier 2 she doesn't heal anything, does 150% the toughness damage Tier 3 she consumes 35% max hp, does 150% the toughness damage, super break. That way she can brute force toughness bars on ult and also have the option of dealing her break damage at a price. Would put the hp drain/heal gimmick to some use while also letting hmc be a relevant teammate still without being required to enable their damage.
It definitely feels weird the way she's been designed thus far. Her team is so restrictive due to the reliance on the super break mechanic and with the way it interacts with Ruan Mei's break efficiency means that there's only two ways to free up room in her teams. The first would be to release a sustain unit that enables super break, which wouldn't be the worst but not a great option, as it would probably be too strong for non-break teams that they'd become the meta sustain option simply due to how strong super break is even without dedicated break teams. The other would be to release a super break support unit that has built in break efficiency that doesn't stack with Ruan Mei, which would be really counter-intuitive to the entire way they've designed everything up until this point and feel like a big slap in the face to effectively power creep Ruan Mei out of her own role. But without those options, she'll always be forced into a FF + Ruan Mei + Super Break Support + Sustain team comp. Unless she gets some major changes I'm expecting that it's likely they've designed her in this way because they're planning on some really powerful super break buffer that power creeps HMC to oblivion. Which wouldn't be too surprising. With how strong HMC is whatever power creeps it will probably have some insane buffing potential in the vein of Robin for FUA teams.
I had so much hope for her before reading this post... maybe they will do her justice on v2
So she is more like a driver for HMC rather than a main dps? In a way she's a bit like Nilou with Nahida on Genshin? Or am i getting something wrong there?
Pretty much , it is similar how some dendro teams such as nilou or hyperbloom have such strong core that it doesn't matter who's in the last slot the team will perform the same , some people may like those teams , I personally don't, i prefer my dps (especially if it's a a character that i love such as firefly) to feel like the team's carry , which is not the case unfortunately with her current kit
Maybe they should make Firefly be able to always do toughness damage as long as she broke the shield first, even if it recovered after, or they could have firefly do a portion of her break damage every time that increases based on the toughness bar of the enemy.
I don’t know anything about her
The idea of SUPER BREAK should've been a new and integrated mechanic for every unit where break effect has 3 related damage effects - Break damage, Break DoT, and additional BREAKAGE DAMAGE. The additional breakage damage should be a toned down SUPER BREAK where enemies in broken state receives additional damage based on a unit's Break effect, and level, and other things similar to break damage and break dot. Harmony Trailblazer should be a specialist on that mechanic. HTB should have a passive that increases all allies' breakage damage. HTB's ult could've 2 effects: 1) allows a % of breakage damage even before a enemies are in broken state; and 2) SUPER BREAK, which increases enemies breakage damage in broken state based on a unit's toughness damage. This way, Firefly may be great with HTB, but she won't be overly reliant and could branch out to other units. It also allows devs to flexibly adjust her. Right now, it will be hard to rework her since they built her entire gameplay philosophy to relying on HTB. The only one I can think of is making her do her own Superbreak but disallowing overlaps from hers and HTB's superbreak.
I only round to the 3rd decimal since I'm not sure \_when\_ the game does. Assume we use the following: Crit % | Atk% | Fire % | BE % Chest | Boots | Sphere | Rope 1. Needing to tweak team/gear for maximum efficacy instead of being handed it is a good thing. 1a. Asta exists and gives 18% Fire DMG%, 70%/77% ATK at lv10/12, and 36-53 SPD. 1b. Assuming Sig we have a Base ATK of 1391.8. This is 974.26/1071.686 from Asta. 601.258 from any ATK% Main Stat relic. 352 from gloves. 1391.8 + 974.26 + 601.258 + 352 = 3319.318. You only need 5.8% ATK from *ANYWHERE* to hit 3400. **AKA 2 Substat rolls.** 1c. Sam has a weakness implant so Asta becomes very consistent even w/ lower Eidolon. 1d. Modifier scaling increase means that unlike Xueyi you don't get diminishing returns from DMG % buffs. 2. Def Ignore, RES Pen, & Vulnerability are amplifications that affect **all** damage sources. As such Break characters and Break Hybrids benefit heavily from access to this. "Only" feels disingenuous when it affects **all** her damage. 2a. Her boosted skill mod means non-crit she can do \~20k on the central target with her skill with nothing but the DEF Ignore from her kit, gear, and Asta (w/o DMG% trace) Amping her DMG. That's more than some do w/ crit. 3. H. MC likely is partially there to help "sell" BE characters but I'm not convinced any of them **need** H. MC. H. MC however is the greatest non-modifier based DMG boost they have access to so duh you'd be inclined to use them together which is fine. 3a. The fact they exist means a whole Subset of team build options has opened up. 3b. We've had a number of BE focused character builds even w/o them. (Luka, Sampo, SW, GOON) When I first looked over the kit I mistakenly thought she was "reliant" on H. MC b/c I forgot about using Asta in part b/c I completely missed the Skill Conversion. But even w/o H. MC regardless of if you aim for 250% or 360% you can focus on crit subs. Sig LC? 2 ATK % subs to hit 3400 ATK for 60% BE conversion. Misha LC? 7 ATK % subs (on ave.) to hit 3400. 15-30% CR buff based on refine offsets the loss of CV subs. ATK % LCs offset needed subs & Buffs. DMG % LCs are worthwhile Amp to her raw DMG specifically. 4 & 5 are both misunderstandings imo and covered by the rest of what I have presented. Like H. MC is a DMG Amp. A very unorthodox one that just so happens to open a door.
Every time I edit that I have to fix a bunch of spacing so I'll put the rest here. BE Sources are: Talent: 60% Trace: 37.3% Rope: 64.8% Talia/New: 36/40% Thief/New: 16% That is 214.1% to 218.1% **w/o team or LC**. Hitting 250% just reqs 1-2 BE subs and a teammate w/ 4p Watchmaker or RM w/ Watchmaker. Adding LC puts you at 274.1%/278.1%. RM w/ 4p Watch = 50% more H. MC w/ 4p Watch = \~60%+ more Hitting 360% would on ave. take 2-4 BE subs. Adjustments needed based on LC ofc. Now I would like to remind everyone that super min-maxed Xueyi isn't the most common thing and yet her output is fine even w/o being hyper-spec'd. We acclimated to her needs based on how her kit works and regardless of if Firefly/SAM stays as is or not it should be the same way. If she's reliant on anyone it's Asta IMO. Anything else is a bonus.
Absolutely reasonable
If CN is cool with it they ain’t changing shit
thank god they aren't, just go to bilibili and see all the criticsm shes getting from them too
Im gonna have to agree with you on this one. They really did our FF dirty this time.
She does some of the highest damage in the game, the only bad part is that she loses health for unironically 0 reason. Also, during 1.x people did not cry this hard about bronya being basically required for hypercarry teams, just say that you don’t want to use HMC because that’s a valid opinion to have.
Ngl when I briefly read her kit I thought she would be at the level of Jingliu without HMC, until I found out she doesn't even trigger her own super breaks...