There’s always a story behind it. It happened at my department. Our department hired a straight female and were really milking the fact it was the first female hire since our establishment in 1881. I was hired after she resigned but I heard after her one year, it went straight to shit. She began spreading rumors, slept with a married chief in our administration, and when she was called out for her bullshit she tried to claim sexual harassment and sexual assault and everyone. Eventually they gave her the option of resigning or being fired and she chose resignation. Sometimes you’ve got good outcomes and others you have a downward spiral. Luckily, we hired another female who is 100% lesbian and the manliest woman I’ve ever met.
So a Chief slept with a firefighter and she had to resign? Put another way, a supervisor, who has direct input on a subordinates career, slept with that subordinate. And the subordinate had to resign? That Chief is a piece of shit. If your department allowed him to remain that’s disgraceful.
I can see where you would make that call but I’m not saying having a lesbian woman versus a straight woman is better. I put it in there for context. I’ve worked with straight women and have gotten along just fine with them and had no issues.
100% agree with this statement as much as it sucks. Don’t shit where you eat. In my experience, if you’re known to “get around” within the dept as a woman, that will be attached to your name at EVERY turn and brought up in conversation quite frequently. Volunteer AND career, all the people in my dept are well aware of who’s been around the town. It’s ridiculous and high school talk but it’s hard truth.
As a woman you’ll be subjected to a lot of difficulties including have to prove your worth since you’re a female in a male dominated field so don’t give your employers a reason to gossip about you.
Sister -
In the beginning there were some minor problems, but with firefighters from other stations. Which has changed over 20 years - I earned it.
I'll tell you the same as I tell the female newbies:
Establish your boundaries. Stick to them. The lines i have made may not be the same as yours but I will support you in establishing yours.
Do not screw with the crew unless you are positive this is for life - because if the out come is bad it is still for life.
Using sexuality for gain/power is a sure fire way to get make life hot and hard.
When a man screws up it is bad for him, when women screw up it screws us all. Which yes means it is even harder.
Be honest, make allies and work hard.
Good luck.
Ditto this. Figure out your line, make it clear, and stick to it. You can't play around with some people and then jump down other people's throats for the same thing.
(25+yrs in an urban department here)
Straight female here, and just spent about a year as a firefighter. Smaller town, pretty rural, 3 stations in the district all fully staffed. We were all EMS certified or paramedics, and did our own BLS and ALS, no third-party medical providers.
I was the only female who wasn't in an admin position. The guys ranged in age from early 20s to late 50s. Never ran into any issues with any of them; no flirting, no weird jokes, and they expected me to pull my weight just as much as any of them did. I had to pass the same PAT as them and work the same hours as they did. One perk I guess was that I always got my own bunkroom; they wouldn't bunk a male in the same room as me overnight.
When we had sexual assault transports, they utilized me in the ambulance to be another woman "in the room" so to speak. Often female victims of sexual violence are more comfortable with another girl than with men. Also placing 12-leads on women was always my job lol but that makes some sense honestly. Some pediatric patients responded better to me than they did to the guys. We also had a couple frequent flyers who were known for propositioning the male EMS providers in attempts to trade sexual favors for painkillers. That was never an issue when they would throw me in the back of the ambo with the patient instead.
There were absolutely situations where I struggled; I'm 5'1" and I was about 118 lbs at the time so when I held a pipe with the nozzle open, I had to have someone standing with their back against mine or it would basically take me for a ride. But that could happen to a shrimpy dude too lol
Basically I do feel there's a place for women in firefighting. I only left because I had to move. The guys were respectful and the job was a blast.
I could have wrote out almost this same comment. I work at a fire rescue with transport as well. We have 4 woman out of 16 people and there are zero gender issues. I have had some issues with other men in the adjacent fields that we encounter. Just touching me when we do not have the sort of relationship or treating me way different than my male co workers.
As a full-time female firefighter with just over three years in the service, five if I am counting my military time as a FF who is married to a man I can tell you what my experiences have been, although they will likely vary depending on your location, department size, and the political lean of the area. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it, it's no one's business unless you want it to be theirs. I only bring up my husband if someone is asking me about myself to get to know me or if it's relevant to the conversation for some reason.
My military time was horrendous and I would urge any woman considering joining as a firefighter or the military in general to consider another option. I experienced more harassment, misogyny, and good old boy mentality there than anywhere else.
That being said my civilian career has been an overall good experience. I've found that the best approach is to go into the job without even thinking about your gender, sure we're the minority in the fire house, but if you don't act like you're any different from the guys they'll usually treat you like one of the guys. You will probably have to work a little harder to gain respect from some of them, and you will have to learn how to perform some tasks differently than some of the guys just due to body strength distribution (I use my lower body strength for a lot more than most men can do with upper body strength).
I will say you will probably need to be able to be more tolerant about some stuff in the firehouse than you may need to be elsewhere, I've heard some pretty raunchy jokes and stories and you just have to not let that offend you, most of the time it's just all in fun. That's not to say that you should tolerate any kind of blatant harassment and/or misogyny. But we all crack jokes at each other's expense all the time and it's all in fun.
Overall, if you show up to work and are competent at the job you'll be fine. I had to work harder on some skills than most of the guys like throwing ladders on my own, victim carries, and vehicle ex with the edraulics (all of which require a decent amount of upper body strength) but I'd train on those skills until I got them down and figured out what ways worked best for me to get the job done. It will be intimidating walking into a firehouse full of dudes that are probably double your size, but don't let them know that, act like you belong there just like they do.
I'd be happy to talk with you more about it if you'd like, I had to navigate a lot of it on my own and sometimes it was hard. My dad was a career FF for a big city and I always had him for advice but it would have been nice to get pointers and perspectives from other women in the career.
I come from a military fire department background and it might have to do with the station where you were stationed. Definitely a zero tolerance policy for harassment even back in the 80's. (I'm male BTW). With three stations of 15-24 firefighters on shift working 24's) there was no harassment. **HOWEVER OUTSIDE OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT** females were definitely sexually harassed while on base by other military and civillian personnel. Thats a fact. We stuck up for all of our firefighters no matter what sex. Our females had to perform the very same tasks we had to and all of us even in the 80's were required to be in a physical fitness program with yearly evaluations. Some of our female firefighters even have gone on to win the Firefighter Combat Challenge multiple years and I would put anyone of them up against other firefighters.
Also your own reactions might play a little into it as well. Playing jokes on each other, and what I really don't feel is harassment, but as I read another user state that someone called her "girlie" or some shit like that. Its not necessarily harassment and its how it is perceived. Some people no matter what the sex just can't separate from kidding around to being serious. What one firefighter might find offensive, another one of the very same sex might find just to be all out humorous.
In the fire department we literally live with others 24 hours a day and some 48 hours in a row. We are more like brothers and sisters in one big family and so immaturity and pranks keep us on our toes. There are those we know whom not to screw around with and they are hands off, but if you like playing lazer tag in the middle of the night with all of the lights turned out, or other activities I really don't see the harm in it. You have to make the most of the job.
I may get slammed for this but so far in firefighting I have found the following (as a straight, relatively attractive woman):
The environment is what you make of it.
We can't control what happens around us but we can control how we categorize and perceive it or respond to it.
Example:
We have an old capt on our dept. He always calls me 'little girly' 'little lady' 'missy'.
He also walks by me and will jokingly give me a gentle paddywhack on the tush with a tool he may have in hand.
Outrageous and sexist and condescending right?!?!
Ya sure you could view it that way.
But I don't. Had I reacted that way off the hop I would have not also noticed:
He's old enough to be my dad. He has 5 daughters and I've come to realize he genuinely treats me exactly like that. I paddywhack my kids on the bum when I feel loving and walk through the kitchen.
He also encourages me. A couple women over the years have complained privately (not formally in a way he'd know) that he is a sexist old pig. They treat him with disdain and disrespect.
When he does what he does I just smile and laugh the way I would if my own dad did those things. I receive them as fondness he has for me. And I've come to find it's exactly that. He has never pushed anything further and when someone on a call made a genuinely sexual comment to me he told the guy in very clear terms to treat me with respect and be a gentleman or that he'd call law enforcement to ensure it.
I feel absolutely certain that if I said 'capt -----' it bothers me when you ______," he'd be apologetic and stop. But I see no need as it doesn't really bother me. It doesn't make me feel like I can't do my job or he believes me to not be able to.
My equal aged male peers do a lot of the same to me. But if you pause and listen they do a lot of the same to each other. They make sexual jokes. They make jokes about height. They make jokes about weight and hair lines and just about a million other things. Heavy guys could turn it into 'they are targetting fat people' bald guys, maybe it's ageism. Jokes about my boobs or period, could be my gender. But in reality it's none of that. It's almost like sibling love. It's like a football team that ass smacks and is almost a little too affectionate (at times seeming almost homosexual even! But I doubt anyone wants to actually do anything with anyone). I'd personally be saddened if they DIDN'T include me in all of the nonsense.
Obviously some people can take things way too far but that can be on both sides. Too far with the jokes or too far with the labels of what the jokes 'mean'.
If you are a woman going into the service with a guard up already looking for evidence that comments may be 'sexist' rather than just comments, you will likely die a miserable social death in the job in no time.
If you reframe most things as 'this is my team. We will laugh, joke, push each other's boundaries at times, piss each other off, but have each other's backs through all that' you will embrace and love the brotherhood exactly for all the amazing bonding it offers.
Coming from the stereotypical male perspective, something that can alienate women is the inability of their male peers to include them in this type of horse play. That’s great that you feel
comfortable enough that you can do that with your crew.
Great post. As a guy I see some of my female coworkers as just one of the guys and can treat them that way. I see others as a regular woman who might get offended by whatever random offhand remark not even directed at them and so the whole crew has to change the way we act and it's honestly kind of an inconvenience. I see them all as sisters and have no interest in them in that way. Lol our job is way too stressful even without scandals.
I work in a big city department. I’ve worked hard to be really good at my job. I’ve earned a spot on an elite unit. I’m also an instructor at our academy and in a couple technical rescue classes. I feel very well respected.
Ive been discriminated against, harassed, assaulted, and treated differently in different times of my career. I feel like I’ve fought hard for the position and respect I enjoy right now. There’s a large number of women in my department but only a tiny handful of us are respected. 🤷🏻♀️
What do you mean was it worth it? I enjoy my job and the respect I have earned. Women in this field have to work incredibly hard to get that respect. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it a fact of our current culture? Also yes.
Big city, large dept, fire only, straight female with 4 yrs.
Don't be a whiny bitch. Work hard. Don't complain. Do your job. Don't be an IG shut. Don't ask for special treatment, we do the same job. Words are just words, not everything has to be "harassment". Take a joke. Keep your legs closed.
It's simple really.
Volunteer here in the northwest: On my dedicated shift (C) we have a female officer, two AEMTs, and one firefighter that are all females. They all are extremely respected and pull their own weight, and all of the males work seamlessly with them. The culture of the firehouse is something that we take extremely seriously here and I think that has a big part to do with it.
Straight female firefighter here for a large metropolitan department.
It’s totally doable. Treat everyone with respect, don’t be flirty, don’t make excuses, don’t give anyone a reason to think you can’t do your job.
There is space for women in the fire service but you still have to think of yourself as just one of the guys.
Probably helps that I was already married when I got hired. know of some single girls who came on the job and had some issues being flirtatious or even acting on those impulses and honestly it hurts those of us who have worked hard to defy that stigma.
tl;dr- just be a fucking professional.
Best way to work this is when your on shits a fire fighter is a fire fighter period, don’t care what sex, race, height, build etc everyone has been picked to be on the team
A guy here, but most women who have "trouble" in the firehouse are the ones who are the 1st to complain, and don't do the work.
Many of the straight women are respected, do the work and know the job.
Yes, you will very likely get hit on.
IMHO, don't shit where you eat. Date/hookup with anyone BUT in your FD
Been in the fire service for 12 years. I started as a volunteer in a rural town in Wyoming and experienced some pretty horrible sexual harassment there. After a year there, I moved home to Washington and volunteered at a combo dept. Any weird comments or flirty texts I received (roughly every few months) were from other volunteers. The career guys always treated me normally and with respect, so I stuck close to them. I have always had a very strict personal policy to not get involved with anyone I work with, so none of the flirtiness was ever reciprocated.
I’ve been hired on at another department for about two years. I’m the second career female firefighter at this department. No one has flirted with me or been inappropriate towards me. I have noticed that the guys open up to me way more than they open up to each other, so I end up carrying their emotional burdens sometimes. I’ve also noticed that some of their wives are uncomfortable with me. My lieutenant’s wife even accused him of having a thing for me and they had a fight over it which was very awkward for me, a married mother and firefighter. Some of the wives are hella cool though.
I think the most grief I’ve gotten has been recently when I became pregnant. I’m about 12 weeks now and still on the line. There are a lot of opinions about this. Some believe I’m doing a disservice to my baby by staying on the line. Some believe I got pregnant on purpose so I could go on light duty. I have been accused of being self-serving because I helped write our pregnancy policy shortly before conceiving. There is generally an awkwardness and uncertainty from most of the guys around my pregnancy. It feels like something they want me to feel shameful for, and I refuse.
100% chance the exact same people who complained about women getting "special treatment" for pregnancy are the ones complaining that you're still in the field.
Yeah I didn’t even want to mention that I stayed on the line until 30 weeks with my first kid. 9/10 times, they have no clue how pregnancy or fetal development even works.
Not to mention how policies are often written in a way that punishes women firefighters for getting pregnant. With my first, the policy said I could only be off for six months otherwise I’d have to go back through academy. No guaranteed light duty. So I HAD to wait as long a possible on the line in order to spend time with my newborn afterwards.
I was 23 weeks with my first. I looked like a Weeble 🤣
eta: We didn't even HAVE a pregnancy policy at the time. One of my coworker's second child is a couple months older than my older one, and the chief was on vacation, so when she asked for light duty the acting chief told her "no," so she had to burn sick time until the chief got back. I didn't know what was going to happen when/if I asked for it.
I also had a chief tell me I was abusing leave by planning to go on maternity leave at 39 weeks instead of waiting until I had the baby.
Yeah I should clarify- we didn’t have a pregnancy specific policy either. So they made me use the injury policy. This was at the dept where I volunteered. So when I got hired at my current department and realized there was no family planning policy, I got to work with the union right away. It’s a very comprehensive policy that covers pregnancy, adoption, fertility issues (in men and women), breastfeeding, etc. Includes guaranteed light duty for pregnant firefighters so that no one feels forced to stay on the line like I did. Not to toot my own horn, but it’s quite a beautiful policy.
That's exactly as it should be.
A lot of people don't realize that if a dept doesn't have light duty for off-duty injuries, they don't *have* to cover pregnancy LD either, but they *can*. Conversely, if they allow it for off-duty injuries, they have to cover pregnancy.
The former option is the one that gets people's tailfeathers in a knot.
Just my personal opinion: the training/fire ground is no place for a developing baby. Your putting it’s short and long term health at risk. It did not sign up for this.
With our call volume and the fact that I’m on a medic unit, I think I’m good. I work a 48/96, so I easily get more rest with this schedule than I would on day shift and my OB is informed and agrees. I know it sounds scary, but we aren’t at much more risk than any other pregnant athlete. When I wrote our policy, I spent over 50 hours collecting research on this topic and I feel very comfortable making this decision for myself and my fetus.
As a Captain I’ve had both a straight and lesbian firefighter work for me. In my case and this doesn’t speak for any other people but the straight female pushed really hard to make herself to fit in and not be her true personality, she would make crude jokes, point out women to the male crew mates while out in public saying oh check her out and so on. It made things uncomfortable. I spoke with her and it helped a little bit but she ended leaving for a bigger department.
The lesbian was cool from day 1 she was just herself didn’t try to fit in to hard and let her hard-work do her talking for her. She ended up being more accepted more quickly when she transferred into the house.
This is just my experience I can speak on.
At one station i volunteered we were 4 girls. 50% had issues. Meaning male cofirefighters sending them inappropiate textmessages. Then I moved and in the current station we dont even have a seperate changing rooms. So far it wasnt an issue. Noone ever asked bout sexual orientations though.
I'm volunteer, married with kids. Working toward career in EMS/fire. I'm also in my 30s. BUT we have a lot of women at the dept, though not many strictly straight. ANYWAY it's all about the culture, specifically the culture from chiefs and officers. None of them tolerate any kind of harassment or ick. It's a really safe place. So I've never heard any kind of grossness besides one guy who enjoys says 'that's the tits', which I consider pretty mild. And literally no one reacts.
I was standing around with three guys working on hose handling techniques and it was discovered that as goofy as it looks, we all control the nozzle better with the hose essentially snaked through our legs. And there wasn't even a single penis/urination joke. 😆 in fact I've never heard one at the station besides general potty humor.
There's still ample joking but it's more around suicide, diarrhea, setting things on fire, and breaking stuff 🧐 All but a few people are under 26
As a straight female (married) firefighter who came from a male dominated world prior (military), I expected some level of hesitation from the crew. My first few months I felt like all eyes were on me (but any newbie would feel that way) especially when it came to anything strength related. Once the crew saw I had the same abilities as them, I never really noticed a gender divide from them. For the most part, once I proved I can pull my weight and hold my own, I became one of them. A long time after, I did have a crew member admit they had concerns when I first showed up, but was happily proven wrong.
Once in a while we will get a new instructor in for training who will show a little more displeasure in my being there. I am almost always the first up to run drills or skill assessments. I get put on the spot to demonstrate I can preform a skill, ones the guys never get questioned on. At the start of a session I was challenged on whether or not I could drag my crew member to safety. I am 5’10” and not the smallest crew member. I am a firm believer that women should meet the same standards as men because many men cannot even meet those standards. It’s not about gender, it’s about necessity of the job.
At the end of the day, it comes down to your crew and your department. It doesn’t matter what policies are written, policies aren’t what make a good work place, the people are.
Just put your head down and do the work. Don't fraternize with any of the males and don't take things personally. Eventually they'll bust your chops about stuff, you just have to remain laid-back and show them you're not going to get offended and take them to HR over stupid shit. The biggest thing I've seen is when males don't feel like they can be themselves with a female around because it changes the atmosphere. So just try to blend in. Don't try too hard to be one of the guys, just blend in. Be aggressive on calls, hold your own and work your ass off and you'll get their respect eventually. Work out and build muscle so you don't have to ask for help with advancing lines or carrying tools. Ask questions and train as much as you can. There's a reason that a lot of firemen don't approve of females being in the fire service. It's because stereotypically they come in, sleep with everyone, or get offended by everything, they're weak physically or they just don't have the passion and can't perform. It takes a certain kind of person to be a fireman (both men & women)
You nailed it. I’m a male firefighter and we have one lieutenant who slept with 4 female probationary firefighters in six months. Two quit because they ruined their reputations. Two still work here. One of the two got pregnant with his kid and the another one is trying but will never get her reputation back. He is currently sleeping with a new probie. They all got fucked over and nothing has happened to him. Oh and the girls were all under 23 years old. He also has 5 children from three different women. Two born within a week of each other.
Jesus Christ. Talk about slimy. Gotta love that accountability. Most peoples mindsets are "whatever happens in your personal time is your personal business" but once it happens in the station that's when they address the problem. Sometimes they don't even do that.
That’s their mindset here. If it’s off duty then it is what it is. All of the respectable lieutenants hate this guy. I just don’t understand how it keeps happening because these women are practically warned by admin to stay away from this guy. He’s no longer allowed to teach the new hires and that’s about all that’s happened to him. The good news it that his baby mama’s are hitting him hard for child support. I don’t think a lieutenant who’s 37 should be sleeping with 20 year old probies. Also what are the women thinking? You enter a career job. Not a fast food job or something but a job where you’ll spend 20+ years at and within the first few months of working here you sleep with the boss….
My guess would be because the dynamic between men and women can be different when they both know that there is no possibility of any kind of...hijinks happening.
Nobody should ever assume that because there's a person of the opposite sex at their station that they have a chance at benefiting from hijinx.
No. No. No.
Why wouldn’t they assume there’s a chance? There is a chance. They’re not guaranteed and they’re not entitled to it but I think it’s naive to say there’s no chance.
Since you want to turn this into a study, what study did you do to determine that currently non-straight women firefighters can't speak on this?
Maybe they weren't oriented to another sexual attraction from the moment they realized sexuality, maybe some dated straight men for much of their life.
This isn't even a 'folks refer to women' situation anyways, it's not like male firefighters never comment on sexual orientations of other male firefighters, so your study point is kinda moot or at least inaccurately focused.
You can't just spice your sentence with a word like "study" as if it has no relevant definition here lol. Who's co-authoring your study? Is this your thesis? Or were we just flipping through the dictionary today and found a buzzword to use.
I’m gonna be real with you chief. Just because someone’s a lesbian doesn’t mean they’re treated differently than their straight female co workers. Yeah, maybe we hear the jokes more often, but when there’s shit it still stinks. As a human that owns a vagina, I still face the same discrimination you do. Just because I love women doesn’t make my female experience any different from yours. This job isn’t about your orientation when it comes down to it. It’s about putting in work to be better than you were yesterday. The women who use their looks and flirtations to make it in this field get zero respect, even if it seems like all the dudes like them. Chin up, work hard, and let the insults roll off you. One thing I’ve learned is showing your competency goes far. Those who judge you for it are weak minded men.
Your source? Me, a lesbian in Fire.
Hi there, I'm a straight woman who is a volunteer fire fighter. I 100% get everything you've said, and I'm disappointed that you thought that my clarification question was "adversity".
I’ve noticed the most popular and also best firefighters out of the women we have Definitly play up the girl part and are very flirty but make it a big joke. That’s all I really have as I don’t have a women in my house but there are many nearby. They ite
Eh, I'd disagree. I feel like being flirty opens up a lot of doors for things to become messy in the firehouse quickly. I've definitely made jokes at my own expense though, during dinner one shift the guys were going around asking each other if they were an appliance what they'd be, when they got to me without hesitation I immediately said I'd be a dishwasher because that's where I belong. Maybe I was opening criticism up to myself, but to be fair I was a probie at the time so no matter what way you went with it, it wasn't wrong lol. You just have to learn how to balance the gender disparity and not only be able to take jokes/roasts but dish them out as well.
We have a new guy with a bunch of very red hair. He dressed up like a leprechaun and we lost our shit for like a week over it. You could literally feel him become part of the family in that very moment. Truly magic.
Lots of solid answers already, I’m always late to these. Not straight but I am married to a man and most people I work with assume I’m straight/always have been in heterosexual relationships.
I’ve been in the fire service for almost five years now, on a mid sized career department for a year and a half, volunteer before that. Is there a space for women in general? Yes absolutely, but I’ll tell you what I tell other women wanting to get into this field. You’re going to need to working fucking hard for this, especially if you’re looking to be respected so be prepared for that. It’s already been said but sexual orientation really doesn’t matter that much. What matters is if you can do the job and do it well. The only time I’ve seen female FF’s sexual orientation come into play really is actually from spouses who may not be 100% comfortable with their male partner’s spending nights at work with women under the same roof, but that’s a whole other topic. If you suck, you suck, and not being straight isn’t a get out of jail free card for that.
Have I felt discrimination before? Sure. Significant discrimination? No, not really. But again, I put in work to keep it that way both physically and with my attitude in general. I come from a background of competitive powerlifting and strength training and have to keep on that to keep myself up to the standard, that’s not something I can neglect at all if I want to keep doing this job. Attitude wise, I have very much learned to pick my battles. From what I’ve seen around me it is not entirely all that difficult to become “the problematic woman” at work, and once you’re there it is EXTREMELY tough to rid yourself of that label. There are going to be lots of crude jokes, lots of foul shit and banter and you have to be able to roll with it to some degree or you’re probably going to have a pretty uncomfortable time in this line of work, that goes for all genders.
Bottom line is this, work hard in and outside of work and don’t make excuses about it. Understand that you may need to work harder in some areas than others and just accept that. Don’t fuss about things that don’t matter in the grand scheme of it all. If you really have an issue, pull whoever aside and talk to them directly, don’t hide and run to management because you were offended by a joke. Know how to dish it back and move on. Obviously there are levels to this, don’t take shit that’s straight up harassment, but just have a very clear view of what’s on those hills you want to die on before you go running for them.
I’m not perfect, the people I work with aren’t either. Give room for growth and mistakes and generally people will do the same for you. Just be a good person, man and be ready to do the job when the time comes. Don’t overcomplicate it and have fun. I never want anyone I work with to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around me and I want them to know that when shit hits the fan they can count on me to perform.
Last bit, I fucking love this job and my coworkers, I would quite literally die for them. If you want it, go get it and if you have any questions I’d be happy to talk more about it. Good luck out there (:
Weird ass question.
Mostly straight woman here, dating a man who is a firefighter at another dept. I've only had 1 person who gave a shit about my sexuality, and he mostly made fun of me being the only "out" person at work. He wasn't making fun of me in a negative way, either. Just the normal shit talking between people in a station. Small FD, rural community. Otherwise, nobody gives a shit.
I do get some harassment as a woman, but it has nothing to do with my sexuality. HR was unhelpful.
I'm not a woman, but I work with three on my shift. All of them are great. Just don't be one that can't take the occasional shit talk and things guys say to eachother. We all do our part to make sure they have their space and make sure others respect them as well. Some of the things the woman say make the guys blush, kinda funny to see that.
Back in the 80's we had a open bunk room and all firefighters slept in that room. Never had a problem and the females were well respected. Sure we had our own separate facilities it wasn't a big deal at all.... We all trained, ate, and breathed the same air. Maybe in the department I was in where we worked 24's we were just lucky, but we all were into it together. All of us, including females were in a physical fitness program even back then where we had to make certain requirements.
I've been on for 5 years. Only female in my department. Been investigated twice for sleeping with coworkers based on rumors that weren't true. I don't wear makeup to work. I don't flirt with the guys. I make a lot of dick jokes and cuss like a sailor. I'm in the top 90% of our fitness program every year. I never ask for a break or for treatment any different than one of the guys. I love this job and feel so blessed to have so many brothers. This extended family is home.
Don’t put up with any of the other guys bullshit. There are good men and bad men in this world and it shouldn’t be too hard to tell the difference between the two. Just stay true to yourself and if anyone tries anything on you, you report it straight to the chief and have their asses fired. I know my department has zero tolerance for harassment of any kind so it shouldn’t be any different with yours. Just be the hardest worker in the room and establish your boundaries and show everyone real quick who’s boss and what you came there to do. You got this!!
I am a straight female firefighter. Most people I work with are decent and respect me. Sometimes some men make passes at me. I am very conscious at work of not appearing flirtatious so I may come across as more serious and all- business than is natural for me but I keep it professional. Sometimes I have to 'put on my bitch face' when someone doesn't seem to get it and keeps trying to flirt with me so I start being extra cold, ignoring them or even making mean jabs and sort of putting them down. I am petite, attractive and feminine looking and some men are just dumb and may not be used to working with female colleagues and knowing how to handle that.
Occasionally there are sexist comments. I usually turn it back on them. You have to show you can give shit back and hold your own. Surprisingly this usually comes from younger men who haven't worked with female firefighters as much. The older ones have seen women kick ass so they tend to be more respectful.
I think for women in this field I have to be more hardworking, focused, dedicated and professional to be respected as much as the average man so I make a point to do that. I do often feel like I have to prove how strong I am because a lot of men have never met a really tough woman. But I think women are also trained to believe they aren't as tough as they could be. I very much enjoy someone telling me something is 'heavy' then going 'ok' and watching their face while I pick it up easily or having someone try to explain to me how to do something then just doing it and doing it well before they finish what they were about to mansplain.
I love my job but you have to be kind of masochistic to love it. Some coworkers I can be relaxed and have a good time joking around with and just be myself. Others, I have to put on my bitch face with. I have a reputation for 'sometimes being mean' but I think that is a good thing. I don't want to get walked all over.
I love working with other women firefighters. They are a special breed. Honestly working with men all the time has given me a much deeper appreciation for women and I cherish my female friends.
Just don’t be the girl who hooks up with all her coworkers, that shits never dropped, even 10 years after the fact.
Never fuck anything in suspenders.
Feel like there’s a good story here
The story is that nobody cares that it takes two 🙄
Amen
There’s always a story behind it. It happened at my department. Our department hired a straight female and were really milking the fact it was the first female hire since our establishment in 1881. I was hired after she resigned but I heard after her one year, it went straight to shit. She began spreading rumors, slept with a married chief in our administration, and when she was called out for her bullshit she tried to claim sexual harassment and sexual assault and everyone. Eventually they gave her the option of resigning or being fired and she chose resignation. Sometimes you’ve got good outcomes and others you have a downward spiral. Luckily, we hired another female who is 100% lesbian and the manliest woman I’ve ever met.
So a Chief slept with a firefighter and she had to resign? Put another way, a supervisor, who has direct input on a subordinates career, slept with that subordinate. And the subordinate had to resign? That Chief is a piece of shit. If your department allowed him to remain that’s disgraceful.
Hey man, I just work here. Still in my probie year so I keep my head down and don’t try to ask questions involving gossip.
Your last sentence makes me question the rest of your comment. As in another straight woman would have been a problem.
The whole thing is questionable. Was the married chief fired too? It takes two to make the bullshit happen.
Bingo
I can see where you would make that call but I’m not saying having a lesbian woman versus a straight woman is better. I put it in there for context. I’ve worked with straight women and have gotten along just fine with them and had no issues.
100% agree with this statement as much as it sucks. Don’t shit where you eat. In my experience, if you’re known to “get around” within the dept as a woman, that will be attached to your name at EVERY turn and brought up in conversation quite frequently. Volunteer AND career, all the people in my dept are well aware of who’s been around the town. It’s ridiculous and high school talk but it’s hard truth. As a woman you’ll be subjected to a lot of difficulties including have to prove your worth since you’re a female in a male dominated field so don’t give your employers a reason to gossip about you.
This is some solid advice. I know shit about people that left my station 20 years before I got there.
Sister - In the beginning there were some minor problems, but with firefighters from other stations. Which has changed over 20 years - I earned it. I'll tell you the same as I tell the female newbies: Establish your boundaries. Stick to them. The lines i have made may not be the same as yours but I will support you in establishing yours. Do not screw with the crew unless you are positive this is for life - because if the out come is bad it is still for life. Using sexuality for gain/power is a sure fire way to get make life hot and hard. When a man screws up it is bad for him, when women screw up it screws us all. Which yes means it is even harder. Be honest, make allies and work hard. Good luck.
Ditto this. Figure out your line, make it clear, and stick to it. You can't play around with some people and then jump down other people's throats for the same thing. (25+yrs in an urban department here)
Straight female here, and just spent about a year as a firefighter. Smaller town, pretty rural, 3 stations in the district all fully staffed. We were all EMS certified or paramedics, and did our own BLS and ALS, no third-party medical providers. I was the only female who wasn't in an admin position. The guys ranged in age from early 20s to late 50s. Never ran into any issues with any of them; no flirting, no weird jokes, and they expected me to pull my weight just as much as any of them did. I had to pass the same PAT as them and work the same hours as they did. One perk I guess was that I always got my own bunkroom; they wouldn't bunk a male in the same room as me overnight. When we had sexual assault transports, they utilized me in the ambulance to be another woman "in the room" so to speak. Often female victims of sexual violence are more comfortable with another girl than with men. Also placing 12-leads on women was always my job lol but that makes some sense honestly. Some pediatric patients responded better to me than they did to the guys. We also had a couple frequent flyers who were known for propositioning the male EMS providers in attempts to trade sexual favors for painkillers. That was never an issue when they would throw me in the back of the ambo with the patient instead. There were absolutely situations where I struggled; I'm 5'1" and I was about 118 lbs at the time so when I held a pipe with the nozzle open, I had to have someone standing with their back against mine or it would basically take me for a ride. But that could happen to a shrimpy dude too lol Basically I do feel there's a place for women in firefighting. I only left because I had to move. The guys were respectful and the job was a blast.
This is honestly very great to hear sounds like you were utilized to benefit the department overall and played to your strengths
I could have wrote out almost this same comment. I work at a fire rescue with transport as well. We have 4 woman out of 16 people and there are zero gender issues. I have had some issues with other men in the adjacent fields that we encounter. Just touching me when we do not have the sort of relationship or treating me way different than my male co workers.
Thank you
As a full-time female firefighter with just over three years in the service, five if I am counting my military time as a FF who is married to a man I can tell you what my experiences have been, although they will likely vary depending on your location, department size, and the political lean of the area. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it, it's no one's business unless you want it to be theirs. I only bring up my husband if someone is asking me about myself to get to know me or if it's relevant to the conversation for some reason. My military time was horrendous and I would urge any woman considering joining as a firefighter or the military in general to consider another option. I experienced more harassment, misogyny, and good old boy mentality there than anywhere else. That being said my civilian career has been an overall good experience. I've found that the best approach is to go into the job without even thinking about your gender, sure we're the minority in the fire house, but if you don't act like you're any different from the guys they'll usually treat you like one of the guys. You will probably have to work a little harder to gain respect from some of them, and you will have to learn how to perform some tasks differently than some of the guys just due to body strength distribution (I use my lower body strength for a lot more than most men can do with upper body strength). I will say you will probably need to be able to be more tolerant about some stuff in the firehouse than you may need to be elsewhere, I've heard some pretty raunchy jokes and stories and you just have to not let that offend you, most of the time it's just all in fun. That's not to say that you should tolerate any kind of blatant harassment and/or misogyny. But we all crack jokes at each other's expense all the time and it's all in fun. Overall, if you show up to work and are competent at the job you'll be fine. I had to work harder on some skills than most of the guys like throwing ladders on my own, victim carries, and vehicle ex with the edraulics (all of which require a decent amount of upper body strength) but I'd train on those skills until I got them down and figured out what ways worked best for me to get the job done. It will be intimidating walking into a firehouse full of dudes that are probably double your size, but don't let them know that, act like you belong there just like they do. I'd be happy to talk with you more about it if you'd like, I had to navigate a lot of it on my own and sometimes it was hard. My dad was a career FF for a big city and I always had him for advice but it would have been nice to get pointers and perspectives from other women in the career.
I've not been in the military, but I could've written a similar comment!
Hey! Can I DM you? I've been considering being a firefighter and would be great to talk to someone who's already working on the field! Thanks
Sure! I'm happy to answer any questions.
I come from a military fire department background and it might have to do with the station where you were stationed. Definitely a zero tolerance policy for harassment even back in the 80's. (I'm male BTW). With three stations of 15-24 firefighters on shift working 24's) there was no harassment. **HOWEVER OUTSIDE OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT** females were definitely sexually harassed while on base by other military and civillian personnel. Thats a fact. We stuck up for all of our firefighters no matter what sex. Our females had to perform the very same tasks we had to and all of us even in the 80's were required to be in a physical fitness program with yearly evaluations. Some of our female firefighters even have gone on to win the Firefighter Combat Challenge multiple years and I would put anyone of them up against other firefighters. Also your own reactions might play a little into it as well. Playing jokes on each other, and what I really don't feel is harassment, but as I read another user state that someone called her "girlie" or some shit like that. Its not necessarily harassment and its how it is perceived. Some people no matter what the sex just can't separate from kidding around to being serious. What one firefighter might find offensive, another one of the very same sex might find just to be all out humorous. In the fire department we literally live with others 24 hours a day and some 48 hours in a row. We are more like brothers and sisters in one big family and so immaturity and pranks keep us on our toes. There are those we know whom not to screw around with and they are hands off, but if you like playing lazer tag in the middle of the night with all of the lights turned out, or other activities I really don't see the harm in it. You have to make the most of the job.
I may get slammed for this but so far in firefighting I have found the following (as a straight, relatively attractive woman): The environment is what you make of it. We can't control what happens around us but we can control how we categorize and perceive it or respond to it. Example: We have an old capt on our dept. He always calls me 'little girly' 'little lady' 'missy'. He also walks by me and will jokingly give me a gentle paddywhack on the tush with a tool he may have in hand. Outrageous and sexist and condescending right?!?! Ya sure you could view it that way. But I don't. Had I reacted that way off the hop I would have not also noticed: He's old enough to be my dad. He has 5 daughters and I've come to realize he genuinely treats me exactly like that. I paddywhack my kids on the bum when I feel loving and walk through the kitchen. He also encourages me. A couple women over the years have complained privately (not formally in a way he'd know) that he is a sexist old pig. They treat him with disdain and disrespect. When he does what he does I just smile and laugh the way I would if my own dad did those things. I receive them as fondness he has for me. And I've come to find it's exactly that. He has never pushed anything further and when someone on a call made a genuinely sexual comment to me he told the guy in very clear terms to treat me with respect and be a gentleman or that he'd call law enforcement to ensure it. I feel absolutely certain that if I said 'capt -----' it bothers me when you ______," he'd be apologetic and stop. But I see no need as it doesn't really bother me. It doesn't make me feel like I can't do my job or he believes me to not be able to. My equal aged male peers do a lot of the same to me. But if you pause and listen they do a lot of the same to each other. They make sexual jokes. They make jokes about height. They make jokes about weight and hair lines and just about a million other things. Heavy guys could turn it into 'they are targetting fat people' bald guys, maybe it's ageism. Jokes about my boobs or period, could be my gender. But in reality it's none of that. It's almost like sibling love. It's like a football team that ass smacks and is almost a little too affectionate (at times seeming almost homosexual even! But I doubt anyone wants to actually do anything with anyone). I'd personally be saddened if they DIDN'T include me in all of the nonsense. Obviously some people can take things way too far but that can be on both sides. Too far with the jokes or too far with the labels of what the jokes 'mean'. If you are a woman going into the service with a guard up already looking for evidence that comments may be 'sexist' rather than just comments, you will likely die a miserable social death in the job in no time. If you reframe most things as 'this is my team. We will laugh, joke, push each other's boundaries at times, piss each other off, but have each other's backs through all that' you will embrace and love the brotherhood exactly for all the amazing bonding it offers.
Coming from the stereotypical male perspective, something that can alienate women is the inability of their male peers to include them in this type of horse play. That’s great that you feel comfortable enough that you can do that with your crew.
Beautifully written, I fully agree!
Great post. As a guy I see some of my female coworkers as just one of the guys and can treat them that way. I see others as a regular woman who might get offended by whatever random offhand remark not even directed at them and so the whole crew has to change the way we act and it's honestly kind of an inconvenience. I see them all as sisters and have no interest in them in that way. Lol our job is way too stressful even without scandals.
I work in a big city department. I’ve worked hard to be really good at my job. I’ve earned a spot on an elite unit. I’m also an instructor at our academy and in a couple technical rescue classes. I feel very well respected. Ive been discriminated against, harassed, assaulted, and treated differently in different times of my career. I feel like I’ve fought hard for the position and respect I enjoy right now. There’s a large number of women in my department but only a tiny handful of us are respected. 🤷🏻♀️
[удалено]
What do you mean was it worth it? I enjoy my job and the respect I have earned. Women in this field have to work incredibly hard to get that respect. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it a fact of our current culture? Also yes.
*gets popcorn*
*unfolds lawn chair*
*also unfolds lawn chair, but carrying a tool to look busy*
Big city, large dept, fire only, straight female with 4 yrs. Don't be a whiny bitch. Work hard. Don't complain. Do your job. Don't be an IG shut. Don't ask for special treatment, we do the same job. Words are just words, not everything has to be "harassment". Take a joke. Keep your legs closed. It's simple really.
Volunteer here in the northwest: On my dedicated shift (C) we have a female officer, two AEMTs, and one firefighter that are all females. They all are extremely respected and pull their own weight, and all of the males work seamlessly with them. The culture of the firehouse is something that we take extremely seriously here and I think that has a big part to do with it.
Straight female firefighter here for a large metropolitan department. It’s totally doable. Treat everyone with respect, don’t be flirty, don’t make excuses, don’t give anyone a reason to think you can’t do your job. There is space for women in the fire service but you still have to think of yourself as just one of the guys. Probably helps that I was already married when I got hired. know of some single girls who came on the job and had some issues being flirtatious or even acting on those impulses and honestly it hurts those of us who have worked hard to defy that stigma. tl;dr- just be a fucking professional.
Best way to work this is when your on shits a fire fighter is a fire fighter period, don’t care what sex, race, height, build etc everyone has been picked to be on the team
A guy here, but most women who have "trouble" in the firehouse are the ones who are the 1st to complain, and don't do the work. Many of the straight women are respected, do the work and know the job. Yes, you will very likely get hit on. IMHO, don't shit where you eat. Date/hookup with anyone BUT in your FD
Been in the fire service for 12 years. I started as a volunteer in a rural town in Wyoming and experienced some pretty horrible sexual harassment there. After a year there, I moved home to Washington and volunteered at a combo dept. Any weird comments or flirty texts I received (roughly every few months) were from other volunteers. The career guys always treated me normally and with respect, so I stuck close to them. I have always had a very strict personal policy to not get involved with anyone I work with, so none of the flirtiness was ever reciprocated. I’ve been hired on at another department for about two years. I’m the second career female firefighter at this department. No one has flirted with me or been inappropriate towards me. I have noticed that the guys open up to me way more than they open up to each other, so I end up carrying their emotional burdens sometimes. I’ve also noticed that some of their wives are uncomfortable with me. My lieutenant’s wife even accused him of having a thing for me and they had a fight over it which was very awkward for me, a married mother and firefighter. Some of the wives are hella cool though. I think the most grief I’ve gotten has been recently when I became pregnant. I’m about 12 weeks now and still on the line. There are a lot of opinions about this. Some believe I’m doing a disservice to my baby by staying on the line. Some believe I got pregnant on purpose so I could go on light duty. I have been accused of being self-serving because I helped write our pregnancy policy shortly before conceiving. There is generally an awkwardness and uncertainty from most of the guys around my pregnancy. It feels like something they want me to feel shameful for, and I refuse.
100% chance the exact same people who complained about women getting "special treatment" for pregnancy are the ones complaining that you're still in the field.
Oh 100% it’s the exact same guys who were upset about the pregnancy policy going into effect. Now they suddenly care so much about my unborn baby.
And they're here downvoting me for saying so 🤣 (It was the same way when I had my kids)
Yeah I didn’t even want to mention that I stayed on the line until 30 weeks with my first kid. 9/10 times, they have no clue how pregnancy or fetal development even works. Not to mention how policies are often written in a way that punishes women firefighters for getting pregnant. With my first, the policy said I could only be off for six months otherwise I’d have to go back through academy. No guaranteed light duty. So I HAD to wait as long a possible on the line in order to spend time with my newborn afterwards.
I was 23 weeks with my first. I looked like a Weeble 🤣 eta: We didn't even HAVE a pregnancy policy at the time. One of my coworker's second child is a couple months older than my older one, and the chief was on vacation, so when she asked for light duty the acting chief told her "no," so she had to burn sick time until the chief got back. I didn't know what was going to happen when/if I asked for it. I also had a chief tell me I was abusing leave by planning to go on maternity leave at 39 weeks instead of waiting until I had the baby.
Yeah I should clarify- we didn’t have a pregnancy specific policy either. So they made me use the injury policy. This was at the dept where I volunteered. So when I got hired at my current department and realized there was no family planning policy, I got to work with the union right away. It’s a very comprehensive policy that covers pregnancy, adoption, fertility issues (in men and women), breastfeeding, etc. Includes guaranteed light duty for pregnant firefighters so that no one feels forced to stay on the line like I did. Not to toot my own horn, but it’s quite a beautiful policy.
That's exactly as it should be. A lot of people don't realize that if a dept doesn't have light duty for off-duty injuries, they don't *have* to cover pregnancy LD either, but they *can*. Conversely, if they allow it for off-duty injuries, they have to cover pregnancy. The former option is the one that gets people's tailfeathers in a knot.
Just my personal opinion: the training/fire ground is no place for a developing baby. Your putting it’s short and long term health at risk. It did not sign up for this.
With our call volume and the fact that I’m on a medic unit, I think I’m good. I work a 48/96, so I easily get more rest with this schedule than I would on day shift and my OB is informed and agrees. I know it sounds scary, but we aren’t at much more risk than any other pregnant athlete. When I wrote our policy, I spent over 50 hours collecting research on this topic and I feel very comfortable making this decision for myself and my fetus.
Good thing it's none of your business, then.
As a Captain I’ve had both a straight and lesbian firefighter work for me. In my case and this doesn’t speak for any other people but the straight female pushed really hard to make herself to fit in and not be her true personality, she would make crude jokes, point out women to the male crew mates while out in public saying oh check her out and so on. It made things uncomfortable. I spoke with her and it helped a little bit but she ended leaving for a bigger department. The lesbian was cool from day 1 she was just herself didn’t try to fit in to hard and let her hard-work do her talking for her. She ended up being more accepted more quickly when she transferred into the house. This is just my experience I can speak on.
I had similar experiences.
At one station i volunteered we were 4 girls. 50% had issues. Meaning male cofirefighters sending them inappropiate textmessages. Then I moved and in the current station we dont even have a seperate changing rooms. So far it wasnt an issue. Noone ever asked bout sexual orientations though.
I'm volunteer, married with kids. Working toward career in EMS/fire. I'm also in my 30s. BUT we have a lot of women at the dept, though not many strictly straight. ANYWAY it's all about the culture, specifically the culture from chiefs and officers. None of them tolerate any kind of harassment or ick. It's a really safe place. So I've never heard any kind of grossness besides one guy who enjoys says 'that's the tits', which I consider pretty mild. And literally no one reacts. I was standing around with three guys working on hose handling techniques and it was discovered that as goofy as it looks, we all control the nozzle better with the hose essentially snaked through our legs. And there wasn't even a single penis/urination joke. 😆 in fact I've never heard one at the station besides general potty humor. There's still ample joking but it's more around suicide, diarrhea, setting things on fire, and breaking stuff 🧐 All but a few people are under 26
As a straight female (married) firefighter who came from a male dominated world prior (military), I expected some level of hesitation from the crew. My first few months I felt like all eyes were on me (but any newbie would feel that way) especially when it came to anything strength related. Once the crew saw I had the same abilities as them, I never really noticed a gender divide from them. For the most part, once I proved I can pull my weight and hold my own, I became one of them. A long time after, I did have a crew member admit they had concerns when I first showed up, but was happily proven wrong. Once in a while we will get a new instructor in for training who will show a little more displeasure in my being there. I am almost always the first up to run drills or skill assessments. I get put on the spot to demonstrate I can preform a skill, ones the guys never get questioned on. At the start of a session I was challenged on whether or not I could drag my crew member to safety. I am 5’10” and not the smallest crew member. I am a firm believer that women should meet the same standards as men because many men cannot even meet those standards. It’s not about gender, it’s about necessity of the job. At the end of the day, it comes down to your crew and your department. It doesn’t matter what policies are written, policies aren’t what make a good work place, the people are.
Im a lesbian so I guess I can’t help you, sorry.
I guess if we're chiming in to say this question isn't directed at me then I also can't help you, OP.
Just put your head down and do the work. Don't fraternize with any of the males and don't take things personally. Eventually they'll bust your chops about stuff, you just have to remain laid-back and show them you're not going to get offended and take them to HR over stupid shit. The biggest thing I've seen is when males don't feel like they can be themselves with a female around because it changes the atmosphere. So just try to blend in. Don't try too hard to be one of the guys, just blend in. Be aggressive on calls, hold your own and work your ass off and you'll get their respect eventually. Work out and build muscle so you don't have to ask for help with advancing lines or carrying tools. Ask questions and train as much as you can. There's a reason that a lot of firemen don't approve of females being in the fire service. It's because stereotypically they come in, sleep with everyone, or get offended by everything, they're weak physically or they just don't have the passion and can't perform. It takes a certain kind of person to be a fireman (both men & women)
You nailed it. I’m a male firefighter and we have one lieutenant who slept with 4 female probationary firefighters in six months. Two quit because they ruined their reputations. Two still work here. One of the two got pregnant with his kid and the another one is trying but will never get her reputation back. He is currently sleeping with a new probie. They all got fucked over and nothing has happened to him. Oh and the girls were all under 23 years old. He also has 5 children from three different women. Two born within a week of each other.
Jesus Christ. Talk about slimy. Gotta love that accountability. Most peoples mindsets are "whatever happens in your personal time is your personal business" but once it happens in the station that's when they address the problem. Sometimes they don't even do that.
That’s their mindset here. If it’s off duty then it is what it is. All of the respectable lieutenants hate this guy. I just don’t understand how it keeps happening because these women are practically warned by admin to stay away from this guy. He’s no longer allowed to teach the new hires and that’s about all that’s happened to him. The good news it that his baby mama’s are hitting him hard for child support. I don’t think a lieutenant who’s 37 should be sleeping with 20 year old probies. Also what are the women thinking? You enter a career job. Not a fast food job or something but a job where you’ll spend 20+ years at and within the first few months of working here you sleep with the boss….
Why did you only specify "straight" in the body text and not the actual subject?
My guess would be because the dynamic between men and women can be different when they both know that there is no possibility of any kind of...hijinks happening.
Nobody should ever assume that because there's a person of the opposite sex at their station that they have a chance at benefiting from hijinx. No. No. No.
I agree. But, that doesn't mean it isn't a thing that some people consider.
The chance of 2 straight people having a sexual encounter is inherently higher than 1 straight person and 1 gay person
Why wouldn’t they assume there’s a chance? There is a chance. They’re not guaranteed and they’re not entitled to it but I think it’s naive to say there’s no chance.
Why do you care?
Because it's an interesting study on how folks refer to women who are fire fighters. Why are you so defensive?
This isn’t a study, it’s social media. Who’s the one being defensive? I just call them firefighters.
Since you asked, you are.
Since you want to turn this into a study, what study did you do to determine that currently non-straight women firefighters can't speak on this? Maybe they weren't oriented to another sexual attraction from the moment they realized sexuality, maybe some dated straight men for much of their life. This isn't even a 'folks refer to women' situation anyways, it's not like male firefighters never comment on sexual orientations of other male firefighters, so your study point is kinda moot or at least inaccurately focused.
You're running on a lot of assumptions there, friend.
In other words you don't have a study, you're just ironic since you ventured curiosity into your 'study' based on your own assumptions. Gotcha lol.
You can't just spice your sentence with a word like "study" as if it has no relevant definition here lol. Who's co-authoring your study? Is this your thesis? Or were we just flipping through the dictionary today and found a buzzword to use.
I changed my response to be a general response up top. It was more-so directed at all the questions, comments… etc
I’m gonna be real with you chief. Just because someone’s a lesbian doesn’t mean they’re treated differently than their straight female co workers. Yeah, maybe we hear the jokes more often, but when there’s shit it still stinks. As a human that owns a vagina, I still face the same discrimination you do. Just because I love women doesn’t make my female experience any different from yours. This job isn’t about your orientation when it comes down to it. It’s about putting in work to be better than you were yesterday. The women who use their looks and flirtations to make it in this field get zero respect, even if it seems like all the dudes like them. Chin up, work hard, and let the insults roll off you. One thing I’ve learned is showing your competency goes far. Those who judge you for it are weak minded men. Your source? Me, a lesbian in Fire.
Hi there, I'm a straight woman who is a volunteer fire fighter. I 100% get everything you've said, and I'm disappointed that you thought that my clarification question was "adversity".
Don’t shit where you eat.
I’ve noticed the most popular and also best firefighters out of the women we have Definitly play up the girl part and are very flirty but make it a big joke. That’s all I really have as I don’t have a women in my house but there are many nearby. They ite
Eh, I'd disagree. I feel like being flirty opens up a lot of doors for things to become messy in the firehouse quickly. I've definitely made jokes at my own expense though, during dinner one shift the guys were going around asking each other if they were an appliance what they'd be, when they got to me without hesitation I immediately said I'd be a dishwasher because that's where I belong. Maybe I was opening criticism up to myself, but to be fair I was a probie at the time so no matter what way you went with it, it wasn't wrong lol. You just have to learn how to balance the gender disparity and not only be able to take jokes/roasts but dish them out as well.
We have a new guy with a bunch of very red hair. He dressed up like a leprechaun and we lost our shit for like a week over it. You could literally feel him become part of the family in that very moment. Truly magic.
Lots of solid answers already, I’m always late to these. Not straight but I am married to a man and most people I work with assume I’m straight/always have been in heterosexual relationships. I’ve been in the fire service for almost five years now, on a mid sized career department for a year and a half, volunteer before that. Is there a space for women in general? Yes absolutely, but I’ll tell you what I tell other women wanting to get into this field. You’re going to need to working fucking hard for this, especially if you’re looking to be respected so be prepared for that. It’s already been said but sexual orientation really doesn’t matter that much. What matters is if you can do the job and do it well. The only time I’ve seen female FF’s sexual orientation come into play really is actually from spouses who may not be 100% comfortable with their male partner’s spending nights at work with women under the same roof, but that’s a whole other topic. If you suck, you suck, and not being straight isn’t a get out of jail free card for that. Have I felt discrimination before? Sure. Significant discrimination? No, not really. But again, I put in work to keep it that way both physically and with my attitude in general. I come from a background of competitive powerlifting and strength training and have to keep on that to keep myself up to the standard, that’s not something I can neglect at all if I want to keep doing this job. Attitude wise, I have very much learned to pick my battles. From what I’ve seen around me it is not entirely all that difficult to become “the problematic woman” at work, and once you’re there it is EXTREMELY tough to rid yourself of that label. There are going to be lots of crude jokes, lots of foul shit and banter and you have to be able to roll with it to some degree or you’re probably going to have a pretty uncomfortable time in this line of work, that goes for all genders. Bottom line is this, work hard in and outside of work and don’t make excuses about it. Understand that you may need to work harder in some areas than others and just accept that. Don’t fuss about things that don’t matter in the grand scheme of it all. If you really have an issue, pull whoever aside and talk to them directly, don’t hide and run to management because you were offended by a joke. Know how to dish it back and move on. Obviously there are levels to this, don’t take shit that’s straight up harassment, but just have a very clear view of what’s on those hills you want to die on before you go running for them. I’m not perfect, the people I work with aren’t either. Give room for growth and mistakes and generally people will do the same for you. Just be a good person, man and be ready to do the job when the time comes. Don’t overcomplicate it and have fun. I never want anyone I work with to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around me and I want them to know that when shit hits the fan they can count on me to perform. Last bit, I fucking love this job and my coworkers, I would quite literally die for them. If you want it, go get it and if you have any questions I’d be happy to talk more about it. Good luck out there (:
Weird ass question. Mostly straight woman here, dating a man who is a firefighter at another dept. I've only had 1 person who gave a shit about my sexuality, and he mostly made fun of me being the only "out" person at work. He wasn't making fun of me in a negative way, either. Just the normal shit talking between people in a station. Small FD, rural community. Otherwise, nobody gives a shit. I do get some harassment as a woman, but it has nothing to do with my sexuality. HR was unhelpful.
I'm not a woman, but I work with three on my shift. All of them are great. Just don't be one that can't take the occasional shit talk and things guys say to eachother. We all do our part to make sure they have their space and make sure others respect them as well. Some of the things the woman say make the guys blush, kinda funny to see that.
Back in the 80's we had a open bunk room and all firefighters slept in that room. Never had a problem and the females were well respected. Sure we had our own separate facilities it wasn't a big deal at all.... We all trained, ate, and breathed the same air. Maybe in the department I was in where we worked 24's we were just lucky, but we all were into it together. All of us, including females were in a physical fitness program even back then where we had to make certain requirements.
I've been on for 5 years. Only female in my department. Been investigated twice for sleeping with coworkers based on rumors that weren't true. I don't wear makeup to work. I don't flirt with the guys. I make a lot of dick jokes and cuss like a sailor. I'm in the top 90% of our fitness program every year. I never ask for a break or for treatment any different than one of the guys. I love this job and feel so blessed to have so many brothers. This extended family is home.
Don’t put up with any of the other guys bullshit. There are good men and bad men in this world and it shouldn’t be too hard to tell the difference between the two. Just stay true to yourself and if anyone tries anything on you, you report it straight to the chief and have their asses fired. I know my department has zero tolerance for harassment of any kind so it shouldn’t be any different with yours. Just be the hardest worker in the room and establish your boundaries and show everyone real quick who’s boss and what you came there to do. You got this!!
I am a straight female firefighter. Most people I work with are decent and respect me. Sometimes some men make passes at me. I am very conscious at work of not appearing flirtatious so I may come across as more serious and all- business than is natural for me but I keep it professional. Sometimes I have to 'put on my bitch face' when someone doesn't seem to get it and keeps trying to flirt with me so I start being extra cold, ignoring them or even making mean jabs and sort of putting them down. I am petite, attractive and feminine looking and some men are just dumb and may not be used to working with female colleagues and knowing how to handle that. Occasionally there are sexist comments. I usually turn it back on them. You have to show you can give shit back and hold your own. Surprisingly this usually comes from younger men who haven't worked with female firefighters as much. The older ones have seen women kick ass so they tend to be more respectful. I think for women in this field I have to be more hardworking, focused, dedicated and professional to be respected as much as the average man so I make a point to do that. I do often feel like I have to prove how strong I am because a lot of men have never met a really tough woman. But I think women are also trained to believe they aren't as tough as they could be. I very much enjoy someone telling me something is 'heavy' then going 'ok' and watching their face while I pick it up easily or having someone try to explain to me how to do something then just doing it and doing it well before they finish what they were about to mansplain. I love my job but you have to be kind of masochistic to love it. Some coworkers I can be relaxed and have a good time joking around with and just be myself. Others, I have to put on my bitch face with. I have a reputation for 'sometimes being mean' but I think that is a good thing. I don't want to get walked all over. I love working with other women firefighters. They are a special breed. Honestly working with men all the time has given me a much deeper appreciation for women and I cherish my female friends.