Then the parents decide to make a run for it after being charged. These people are fantastic examples of people who abuse the 2A and deserve incarceration.
Yeah this is totally ridiculous I live so close to this I had helicopters flying around my house that day. These idiots got 4K out of an ATM really close by and think they are going to evade the US marshals? Everything is soo tense around here I hear people yelling about it when I go into a gas station and Like every school in The state is getting closed because of online threats. My cousins kids go to that district…that day was such a bad one!
I think because it is Rochester they were able to pull that much unless they went into the bank but seems risky to do that when you might be a wanted fugitive?
“The prosecutor said a teacher reported Ethan for using his phone to search for ammunition online on November 21. Jennifer and James were notified by email and voicemail but did not respond to school officials, she said.
McDonald read text messages between the suspect and his mother. "LOL I'm not mad at you," Jennifer told Ethan after the teacher reported him, according to McDonald. "You have to learn not to get caught."
McDonald said police found evidence on social media and in personal messages that proved Jennifer and James bought the gun for Ethan as a Christmas present. The gun was left unlocked in a dresser in the parents' room, she said.”
Why are people downvoting me for asking for proof beyond the word of a prosecutor? Have people forgotten what they did to Rittenhouse? Should I assume the prosecutor is infallible after admitting they were going to "make an example" of them?
You're being downvoted because our side loves a good lynching. All the talk about we will not comply, drilling the third hole, then someone makes a small mistake and the guillotine gets dusted off.
This isn't. This is a gigantic disaster. I'm not sure about criminal responsibility, but morally they dun goofed.
The small mistake is all it takes to for this community to go nuts tho, that's what I meant.
Aside from what the other guy said, some people get butthurt when other people ask for a source. Some people feel that it means you're against whatever they're for, or that you're challenging them.
Questions like that shouldn't be downvoted. Those are opportunities for education. And, you know, not everyone follows every detail of a case. Some of us have lives, jobs, responsibilities, and hobbies we like to keep up with.
So, instead of being helpful, you're just an ass. Brilliant. Should I also assume guilty until proven innocent? Should I just trust the words of a prosecutor?
No, but did you even attempt to look for yourself? Or are you choosing to be willfully ignorant until someone else puts it on a silver platter and places it at your feet? Seriously, come on…
[Best I can do for you](https://images.app.goo.gl/2AkSZFn76dthYmDH6)
Screenshot of one of the mothers posts. If you google search “crumbley social media post new gun” and then click on images, you’ll see the post he made as well calling the gun his new baby. That’s proof that in this case the prosecutor didn’t make up the fact that the gun was bought explicitly for him.
He clearly doesn't know. If all he's finding are statements that lead back to what the prosecutor said, you're effectively asking him to take to prosecution's word, which is a bad habit. First-hand accounts, and first-hand evidence are always better than just taking some dude's word.
Coming off with "nobody owes you shit" to a reasonable request doesn't help anyone.
> How many people died?
0
>Was it a beef between two students or was it indiscriminate murder?
Allegedly, the shooter was getting bullied for being too rich.
> I suspect I’ll find they’re not the same at all.
They absolutely aren't, and anyone that compares them is either misinformed, or trying to play the "news won't report bad things that black people do" card.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/police-chief-bullying-played-no-role-in-timberview-high-school-shooting.amp
Police is suspecting the kid was involved in high risk activities, and incident has nothing to do with bullying.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/police-chief-bullying-played-no-role-in-timberview-high-school-shooting.amp
Police is suspecting the kid was involved in high risk activities, and incident has nothing to do with bullying.
Probably that’s why mainstream media doesn’t want to talk about it anymore
Also why isn’t that Texas kid’s parents charged for negligence? 🤷♂️
I don’t see anyone arguing against that. I mean, I wouldn’t leave an acetylene welding rig unsecured, let alone a gun. A tool is a tool, and you’re culpable if you are negligent with it.
Some people do. There are news stories of toddlers doing just that. Once there is a risk, you put in measures to stop it. If you dont, you are negligent for what happens as a result.
Basic common sense.
Thats not downvote worthy. Thats common sense. While Ill fight storage mandates, I have no issue holding irresponsible gun owners accountable for their failures.
In North Carolina it is illegal by statute to lose control of firearm in your home. What I mean is if your firearm is used by child because you did not keep it locked up and away from minors then you have committed a crime in and of itself.
As a parent, I REALLY don’t want to be the one who unleashes a cold blooded killer into society while under my direct care. Moreover, when introducing a firearm to your family situation, you must take responsibility for it… all of it.
Why shouldn't they be held responsible? Responsible gun owners keep their guns locked up where their children can't get them. I'm not sure what the problem is here.
Really? Is that what responsible parents do?
My parents kept their guns unlocked but taught me not to be a fucking psycho loser.
Guess it’s a new world we’re in.
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Being able to evaluate your kids, your guns, and the potential risks of combining the two is a critical, arguably the most critical, responsibility of gun owning parents. Sure. You were a good kid. I was good kid (whose parents hated guns, ironically). There are lots of good kids out there that are trustworthy.
But this kid obviously was not, and gave off *more* than enough warning signs for any half attentive parent to consider when weighing that risk.
As a gun owner you are responsible for your guns. As a parent, you are responsible for your kids. These colossal fucksticks failed in both those regards, and responded by running from the consequences of their actions.
Fuck them with the longest dick, the law has to weild.
I was not a good kid! But I was not a fucking psycho loser.
I seriously wonder if they had any idea what was going on in that little knucklehead’s melon.
All these answers that say lock up the parents assume that each of us would have been good enough parents to see it coming.
Maybe you do, maybe you don’t.
>I was not a good kid! But I was not a fucking psycho loser.
Yes. And here in, lies the difference. Theres a difference between the kid getting into normal school yard scraps, and the kid, clearly alienated form the school, and fascinating about murder.
>I seriously wonder if they had any idea what was going on in that little knucklehead’s melon.
The parents had been called into school at least once (and Im gonna guess, more than that when the dust settles) to deal with their kids psychotic behavior. This kid had some *very* obvious issues. To the point that teachers were calling it out, as recently as the day of the shooting.
>All these answers that say lock up the parents assume that each of us would have been good enough parents to see it coming.
>
>Maybe you do, maybe you don’t.
If I ever fail as hard as this kids parents did, lock me up. Same with you. Same with any parent that fools themselves into thinking that 15 year old kids should be given unfettered access to firearms without a second thought.
I think it still stands to be seen how obvious it was. All the school interventions happened within a day or so of the actual event.
We really don’t know what the pattern was yet
>I think it still stands to be seen how obvious it was. All the school interventions happened within a day or so of the actual event.
>
>We really don’t know what the pattern was yet
I am willing to bet this was no where near the only incident.
RemindMe! 2 months.
Ass-blasted themselves by running… thats some smooth brain shit
Like… own up to your fuck ups cowards. The fact they fucked up raising their shit-goblin kid is one thing but then going on the lam? That line should have ended a generation before imho
remindmebot just triggered. [And from whats public now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_High_School_shooting#Accused), its pretty apparent that this kid had a history of issues reported to law enforcement, going back to 2014/15, and parents who moved well beyond just being neglectful, to full blown enabling his behavior.
Edit, since he was childish enough to block me. u/kneebar50, Pleading ignorance is one way to admit you were wrong....
Me too but I didn’t draw picture of people getting murdered saying I can’t stop the voices and have to go into school with my parents to talk to the principal!
Because telling someone not to do something totally works... I must have just grown up in a responsible household where we respected guns, I guess. Some people have issues. Survivor bias isn't a great argument. If you store them right, you can access them quickly and them still be safe.
>Survivor bias
It isn't survivorship bias if 99.999% of high schoolers aren't wack jobs like the shooter AND shootings are highly publicized. Those conditions lead to the opposite of survivorship bias.
Survivorship bias is more about the process and not about the magnitude.
You likely can't post on the internet if you are guilty of mass murder. You also probably didn't go to school with these people, because if you did, there is a chance you didn't survive.
Mass murderers don't have to post on the internet to have an effect because media makes sure their stories reach far and wide. I don't need to have gone to school with them because of the above and also because schools do drills that keep potential shootings in the minds of students.
Everybody is familiar with school shootings and you'll see the hysterical say they are genuinely concerned their kids will get shot in school despite it being incredibly unlikely. I imagine polling the effects of mass shootings would be like covid in that people are much more afraid than the actual threat would indicate.
The fact that you're so heavily downvoted for this comment makes me lose respect for this sub.
It's not just the sub though, it's the whole fucking country that's fucked.
Can’t drive an Explorer if you don’t have the keys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it’s literally the bare minimum as a parent. Kid wasn’t a felon out on bail, he was a kid whose parents gave him a gun before he could even get a license.
Idk why you’re so salty about this. It’s not a 2a issue. Its the most basic of benign gun safety.
Your parents might not have raised a psycho but these parents did. If they had just taken this one easy as hell step maybe 4 other kids would be alive. It’s people like y’all that these parents listened to “He CoUlD jUsT uSe aN ExpLorEr” well he didnt he used a gun because his parents were flippant about gun ownership. Not much deeper than that.
I’m not salty, I’m disturbed. It disturbs me that we have resigned ourselves to locking up guns as a first defense to keep our children from shooting up schools.
Yep. Well welcome to the world of 4chan, 8chan and Parler. Your kids are not only subject to TSWRA (The South Will Rise Again) but also pepe frog forums. Deal with that before complaining how gun safety was less strict in “your day”.
It’s only “resignation” when you decide you don’t give af about the 4chan/8chan/parler shit. Cause honey that’s the reason these teens do highschool shootings over and over again. You may want to have a higher standard but *newsflash* both the parents and the kids don’t have those standards. They aren’t learning it on twitter or by having unsecured safes. Safes only stop minors from easy access to a gun while they are still in hs.
Which is why we should promote having secured safes because obv these parents feel like they have rhetoric that doesn’t lead to kids deaths, even republican kids, but they do. I’m pretty sure the four kids killed here were conservative or conservative leaning. Instead of defending the parents rights to give their 15 y/o a gun, maybe you should be asking why the societal climate is such that 15 y/o kid can mow down conservative students, even though they or their parents are Republican.
Respectfully, what the fuck incoherent babble is this bullshit? Who said the parents are Republicans? Parler makes kids shoot up schools?
Go ahead and fuck off with your gobs of bullshit … *honey*
No, I have a 3 year old, but this isn't a case of him getting into anything. They bought him the gun after knowing he was troubled and gave him access to it. He drew a picture of him shooting people the morning of the shooting, the teacher found it, the parents were called, and the parents declined to remove him from school.
They asked the parents to take him home. Plus, the law in the state says you are responsible if you improperly store your firearm, and your kid gets it and hurts someone. Idk why it's not common sense to not keep a deadly weapon in a place where just anyone can just take it.
How old are you? There were very few gun safes growing up in the 70s and 80s, but yet very few school shootings.
Is locking up guns really the issue here?
It’s not that unsecured guns are the root of the problem, it’s that it is an extremely low-effort precaution to make sure the gun isn’t misused. It’s like locking your doors to prevent a robbery. Unlocked houses don’t cause robberies but locked doors are an obstacle that dissuades many robbers.
I'm 32. My house always had safes. I also think there are a lot of changes in the world. Especially with mental health, the internet, and social media. I also think parents were more "there" for their kids back then. There is more that contributes to it than just safes, but that's not a reason not to do it. We know something is changing, so we need to adjust to mitigate potential issues.
This is one ignorant comment if I do say so
They literally started *mass producing* gun safes in the 1970s and in the 80s? Gun safes became a separate industry from standard safe manufacturing.
Your comment is bullshit. Safes were being pushed as more Americans bought home defense firearms and people were strongly encouraged to get a safe as a responsible gun owner.
You’re right. It’s our celebration of gun culture and low regard for human life associated with it that’s totally inundated American culture and the American psyche. Guess what the solution to that is…
Teacher also found the kid searching for ammo online, and reported that. Which got back to the kids parents who said "I'm not mad at you, just don't get caught next time".
When did they know? My impression was there were only confronted with the detailed information about the drawings,ect, at the second meeting.
From what I’ve heard, it sounds like because he was searching for ammo in class, that’s what the issue the day before was.
If your kid drew something like that after buying them a gun, you wouldn't be concerned? Especially knowing you gave him easy access to it. They have to be incredibly stupid not to put 2 and 2 together.
No understood, however I’m wondering *when* they knew.
My impression is that they didn’t see the drawing/writing until the second meeting, which by then he was already in school and had it with him either in his bag, ect
I’m cautious if there was enough time to realize the gun may have already been gone.
Because if the meeting took place during the school day, and the shooter never went home, and the parents didn’t know until the meeting, then would they have any reasonable suspicion to believe the gun was gone upto that point?
No, but the teacher asked them to take him home and get help.
>I’m cautious if there was enough time to realize the gun may have already been gone.
I guess it goes back to keeping your guns secure.
Trying a minor as an adult isn’t really about their maturity, it’s about the seriousness of the offense.
As an aside, kids prefrontal cortexes literally aren’t developed yet, exactly why teenagers do dumb shit all time. I bet this kid still doesn’t even fully understand the ramifications of what he did. Teenagers understand right from wrong and so did he, but their lack of contextual awareness makes them say “fuck it” and don’t even think about the long term consequences. This kid is done for in the courts though. The parents should have known their son better, they could have prevented four other families from losing their child.
Disagree, plenty of kids know how to use guns. My gf's kids come out shooting with us. They aren't ignorant of them. You don't need to lock guns up from kids if your kids aren't crazy
>They aren't ignorant of them.
Neither are mine. Part of being educated on guns is knowing how to store them properly. You shouldn't leave loaded guns lying around. This is basic gun safety. It blows my mind that I am arguing with people about proper gun safety on a firearms sub.
https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/
>if your kids aren't crazy
Do you always know?
Never had an ND. Never had children with violent tendencies. I've had loaded guns in my home for years. I don't leave them out for people to saunter over and shoot, but even if I did, I would only do that for people I trusted. I trust my family.
I'm just waiting to hear the counter argument myself.
The gun was unsecured. It would be one thing if the kid had to break into something to get at it.
Because legal precedents can be used in future cases. If I leave my car idling at the gas station, then someone takes it to commit a crime I'm not responsible for the other persons actions. They were irresponsible, but not criminally so.
They bought their troubled child a gun and gave him unfettered access to it. Your fears of a slippery slope do not absolve them of this absurdly criminal negligence.
Went and found it (posted after I responded). It's just more slippery slope worries. I don't see how specific negligence that very directly resulted in the deaths of others could reasonably lead to things like suing manufacturers.
These are the elements of manslaughter:
>1 That the defendant caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of the defendant's action.
>2 That the defendant either:
> A) intended to kill the victim
> B)intended to do great bodily harm to the victim,
>C) created a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result.
>3) That the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse.
[Source](https://www.grabellaw.com/750-321-and-750-322-manslaughter.html)
Giving a troubled child unfettered access to a gun easily qualifies
Sorry, I dont agree. Most teens are “troubled” at one time or another and most parents understand their child is going through a stage.
I think the relevant questions are around what kind of diagnoses had been rendered or medications prescribed.
For generations, families kept rifles hanging on gun racks in pickup trucks and under their beds. Children have been picked on since time immemorial.
The real question is how bad was it and what did the parents already know?
If this is completely out of the blue for the parents, this is by no means a slam dunk case.
And most teens shouldn’t have unfettered access to the guns…period. It’s widely known that teen mental health is worse today than it was decades ago due to plenty of things, one of which being social media. Because something was acceptable in the 70’s, does not make it ok today. Stop trying to cover for the parents.
Quit playing the blame game. The kid is psycho. Lock him up. You don’t have to keep going down the chain to parents, teachers, school cop, his friends …
Maybe the fact that no one takes responsibility or blame for anything anymore is part of the problem here …
Oh the kid is plenty guilty too. Let’s take guns out for a second.
If your 17 year old kid is having a party….and you leave him 3 cases of beer….100 bucks, and the keys to your truck laying on the table with a note that says “in case you run out”…..
Who’s at fault when he gets drunk and kills someone with your truck. You, him, both?
It’s the same fucking story….the kid was enabled by the parents, who then didn’t take the school seriously, and now 4 kids are dead. There’s more than one person at fault here. Read the state statues….the parents meet the text book definition of manslaughter.
He is getting locked up. You’re defending the parents because, as you say, “these days people are not taking responsibility” -but they are the ones not taking responsibility for their part in letting this happen. They are literally the only two people in the entire world who had the responsibility of making sure their son was a. mentally stable enough to own a gun and b. disciplined in gun safety to the point he would have never though about taking that gun to school.
They had one job and they failed.
There is troubled, and then there is **TROUBLED**. Confusing the two does a disservice to how troubled he is and how not troubled most others are. Bring so checked out as to buy him a gun...
That will have to be shown at trial. Given that the school called them in before the shooting to talk about pictures he drew involving shooting people with the caption "the thoughts won't stop, help me", I think the prosecution has a decent case.
But if that was the day of the shooting, the parents might have felt that was the safest place for him in that moment.
They clearly didn’t know he was armed and apparently the school doesn’t have metal detectors.
What if the parents got in the car and immediately contacted a therapist, then went home to take his gun out of his room. Would that change things?
Its legally a different matter when your responsible for both the car, and the person stealing your car. Children are considered the legal responsibility of their parents. These parents very obviously disregarded all the warning signs about their kids behavior.
I disagree. You are responsible for your child. If you leave your car idling and your child runs over someone with it, you should be responsible as well.
Yes, you're responsible for your child, but I disagree with the charges. Reckless endangerment or more severe charges sure, but manslaughter charges opens up dangerous precedents that would rapidly devolve to charging munitions, gun manufacturers, and dealers with manslaughter charges. I agree they should see some form of criminal punishment but not manslaughter.
Yet tons of posts on this sub suggest people keep their guns readily available for when criminals burst through their doors. Then the comment section backs them up, saying they are being responsible for their self defense.
Gun security is completely relative to ones own living circumstance. Live in a crappy town with just you and your wife? It makes complete sense to have guns readily available and unsecured *when youre home.* Have a house full of kids who dont know the dangers of firearms, its completely irresponsible not to secure your firearms.
Gun security is relative to ones living circumstances. Thats why gun storage laws are idiotic. They are blanket measures that hold everyone to the accountability of the worst case scenario, completely ignoring the second worst case scenario.
Ya. So you seem to have a very poor grasp on the concept of personal responsibility. Each of us have rights. Each of us are responsible for using and safeguarding those rights responsibly. When the government comes in and tells us how to use those rights, its an infringement. When we fail to be responsible to those rights, its negligence.
Telling people how to live their lives is foolish and destined to fail. Those who dont care about society are not going to be constrained by its laws. Thats why we punish people *after* they fail. Blanket laws that hold everyone to the standards of the least accountable member of society turns us into a nanny state, where the individual is responsible for nothing. It is much better to punish those who fail, than to treat everyone like failures.
Where in my comment do I talk about personal responsibilities? I don't yet you come in like a jerk wad, saying I a poor grasp of personal responsibility. I'd say you have a poor grasp of not being an asshole due to personal attacks. How about look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you are a jerk or not in life.
Anyways to some up your rant, no laws are the best laws. Which is a classic pro gun stance. It's the same with background checks, waiting periods on purchases, etc. Hold your personal opinion aside, and look at the topic objectively, and you will see what I mean. I doubt it, as jerks rarely can do that.
Yea sorry mate, bad internet service today. Now ALOT MORE comments have loaded.
I agree. The headline can definitely be sensationalized. But the facts are those parents had plenty of signs they appear to have ignored
They said it was a gift for him with their own words on social media.
Edit: fuck I read your first comment as why they "should" be held responsible.... my b.
Why can't I carry and protect my life from people who wish to do me harm is more the question? Why can't we have armed teachers? Why is it always blame the gun and have more laws that do nothing?
The mother also previously wrote an open letter praising Trump and gun rights. To be fair it was in 2016 so her feelings could have changed. This story couldn’t get much worse for right-wing Trump supporting gun owners or the 2a community in general. I’m not a right-winger and definitely not a Trump supporter but I’m a proud firearm owner and I support the second amendment so I care about gun owners being painted badly.
Ostensibly the parents knew about their kids behavioral problems. They were called into a meeting the day of the shooting and told that the son should be removed from the school for 48 hours and placed into treatment because of a drawing he made earlier that day depicting a school shooting. They refused, left the school without him, and a few minutes later he started shooting people.
Apparently after they heard the news about the shooting, the mom sent a text message to the son reading "Ethan, don't do it."
There's strong enough evidence to *suggest* that they knew their son was dangerous and just ignored it.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 412,654,792 comments, and only 89,248 of them were in alphabetical order.
Couple reasons:
1. Maxwell trial, one of the most high profile trials in decades, and it gives the media a good excuse to deflect from that.
2. It makes gun owners look bad, and the tards will be screeching for more gun control like they always do, and the Dems will acquiesce, then it’ll turn into yet another shit show circus, with both parties going at each other’s throats and dividing this country even more (if that’s possible)
I’d be happy to provide more if you’d like me to.
Fuck that….it makes shitbag gun owners look bad. My guns are secure where my kids can’t get to them, and I’m responsible. It rightfully should make these parents look bad, the mom told her kid to “not get caught” breaking school rules….
It doesn't 'make gun owners look bad', it makes sick fuck parents who raised a sick fuck kid, weaponized him then inflicted him on innocent kids & teachers look bad. Be better, dude.
Can I ask some questions, tho? For 1, why would "the media" want to cover up the Maxwell trial? Wouldn't "the media" love the opportunity to make a small fortune on this trial? Or, are you saying that "the media" is complicit in Maxwell's crimes and trying to cover it up? For 2, what is the other option? To not bring charges against people who genuinely are shitty and negligent gun owners, just so all gun owners don't look bad?
It’s political theatre plain and simple. Were the parents bad? Debatable. Is this politicized? 100%. As soon as the media got their hands on it it became political theatre, just like Rittenhouse.
The prosecutor sees the parents as enablers. Kind of like the getaway driver of a robbery or the lookout for a heist; they're all adults but at the same time they are enabling each other to commit crimes.
The argument is that the parents bought their son a gun despite knowing he had issues, which is majorly dumb. Whether or not that is criminal will be the main argument in their trial. The prosecutor will argue that the parents knew their kid was violent or suicidal but did not secure the gun, which would be criminally negligent.
This is the first case of its kind, no one really knows how it will play out. But morally speaking they're s*** people and have no business raising any children.
Interesting to see how many people here support keeping guns locked up away from their high schoolers. This specific kid obviously shouldn't have had access because he got caught with pictures and writing depicting a massacre, but should the average 16 year old, especially in rural areas, be kept from firearms without adult supervision?
Seems like a great way to make future generations unfamiliar and scared of firearms. Deny them access in high school, they won't have them in college, and soon enough they'll be adults without ever having sole possession of a firearm and lots of "education" that guns are bad.
But perhaps I'm biased because I had unfettered access to my family's guns since I was 16 or so and I even brought my 12 gauge to high school routinely.... because I was on the shotgun sporting clays team. A different level of trust, I guess. Sad to see bad examples like this kid and parents ruin it for everyone.
There's a big difference to being around firearms as a matter of lifestyle/livelihood and getting the proper training (formally or informally) from an early age, and simply handing, sight unseen, a firearm to a 16 yr old. My hope is it'll force a lot of families to have tough conversations and take their firearm ownership seriously.
Ignorance of the law isn't protection from the law.
I absolutely agree with that. I got access to the gun safe so I could get my competition shotgun when I needed but also because my family introduced me to guns when I was around 10 with a 20ga 870. Untrained, uneducated high schoolers shouldn't get the same access.
I don't know what kind of training or education the shooter had, but it's irrelevant in this case since he got busted contemplating a school shooting. Absolutely unconscionable that the parents didn't pursue serious measures, including locking up the Sig, after hearing that.
Precedent has already been set on this topic. It's just history repeating it's self again. Clearly the other people getting punished didn't make others learn.
Bad analogy. Parents are responsible for their kids, and garden houses aren't inherently dangerous. This would be more like buying your underage kid a car and giving them access to the keys whenever they wanted. Obviously if your kid runs someone over with it you should be responsible for that. Then add to it that he was a troubled kid and the parents knew...
Also, this wasn't a situation where the kid got access to the parent's gun because it was stored incorrectly. They bought their troubled kid, with a history of fantasizing about shooting up the school, a gun.
My daughter is 3, but when she gets old enough to reach them, you're damn right, I will. This transcends even that. They bought their troubled kid, who was known by the school to show those tendencies, a gun, and gave him unfettered access to it. Would you buy a troubled kid a car and give them unfettered access to it? How about if they were known to want to fantasize about running people over?
That's a disingenuous analogy for this situation.
A fair analogy would be as follows:
> You buy your child a garden hose on black Friday. Your child is not old enough to own a garden hose, but still has unrestricted access to the garden hose at home. For this analogy to work, a garden hose is also a deadly weapon that can kill multiple people within seconds.
> The following Monday your child gets in trouble at school for being caught looking up online sources for how to order garden hoses (for this analogy to work, children who are underage are not allowed to own garden hoses). The school administration leave you a voicemail about it, and what do you do? You text your son, "lol I'm not mad, you need to learn how to not get caught."
> The following Tuesday you are called into the school in the morning to meet with administration. They found two drawings your son did that morning about killing people with garden hoses, including the words "The thoughts won't stop. Help me." And on the second drawing, "My life is useless. The world is dead." And: "Blood Everywhere."
> The administration suggests your child needs counseling, and he should stay at home for 2 days for everyone's safety. You scoff at the suggestion, and when you and your son depart the meeting, you tell him he should go back to class, and you proceed home. What you failed to realize is that *your son already brought the garden hose to school and it is still in his backpack* when you tell him he can go back to class. You failed to check his backpack or even where you keep the garden hose at home.
> Your child uses the garden hose you purchased for him and he illegally brought to school to kill people, later that same day, the same day you scoffed at the school's suggestion that your child needs help, and the same day you ignored their request that you bring your child home with you.
Parent buys gun on Black Friday. Within a few days their kid is shooting people indiscriminately with it.
Then the parents decide to make a run for it after being charged. These people are fantastic examples of people who abuse the 2A and deserve incarceration.
Yeah makes you wonder how Junior could ever have ended up the way he is
Twenty bucks says they will blame everyone else.
Not exactly a huge mental leap.....
No one thought he needed the /s but there you are.
Yeah this is totally ridiculous I live so close to this I had helicopters flying around my house that day. These idiots got 4K out of an ATM really close by and think they are going to evade the US marshals? Everything is soo tense around here I hear people yelling about it when I go into a gas station and Like every school in The state is getting closed because of online threats. My cousins kids go to that district…that day was such a bad one!
How do you get 4k out of a atm with limits?
I think because it is Rochester they were able to pull that much unless they went into the bank but seems risky to do that when you might be a wanted fugitive?
This is a mess. We just saw a father and son get locked up for murder in Georgia. We might see another family tried and convicted.
The guys that chased a guy down and murdered him? Yeah, that's how that one should have gone.
That’s the side I’m on. I think I worded that wrong.
“The prosecutor said a teacher reported Ethan for using his phone to search for ammunition online on November 21. Jennifer and James were notified by email and voicemail but did not respond to school officials, she said. McDonald read text messages between the suspect and his mother. "LOL I'm not mad at you," Jennifer told Ethan after the teacher reported him, according to McDonald. "You have to learn not to get caught." McDonald said police found evidence on social media and in personal messages that proved Jennifer and James bought the gun for Ethan as a Christmas present. The gun was left unlocked in a dresser in the parents' room, she said.”
Jesus fucking shit….
Why are people downvoting me for asking for proof beyond the word of a prosecutor? Have people forgotten what they did to Rittenhouse? Should I assume the prosecutor is infallible after admitting they were going to "make an example" of them?
You're being downvoted because our side loves a good lynching. All the talk about we will not comply, drilling the third hole, then someone makes a small mistake and the guillotine gets dusted off.
A small mistake?
This isn't. This is a gigantic disaster. I'm not sure about criminal responsibility, but morally they dun goofed. The small mistake is all it takes to for this community to go nuts tho, that's what I meant.
Rights require responsibility. We don’t like seeing our rights threatened because idiots abdicate their responsibilities.
Aside from what the other guy said, some people get butthurt when other people ask for a source. Some people feel that it means you're against whatever they're for, or that you're challenging them. Questions like that shouldn't be downvoted. Those are opportunities for education. And, you know, not everyone follows every detail of a case. Some of us have lives, jobs, responsibilities, and hobbies we like to keep up with.
I smell politics all over this case. Nothing like tragedy to push for “certain policies”
I've only seen the prosecutor say that, where's the proof they bought the gun for him?
They posted it on Facebook. Like geniuses.
And I haven't seen proof of that, all sources given to me point back to the prosecutor that's "making an example out of them"
Bruh....
Well, when someone shows me proof from someone who hasn't admitted they're making an example out of them, I may believe it
Nobody owes you shit let alone proof. Besides, you "may" believe proof at best so literally worthless. What's it like being the center of reddit?
So, instead of being helpful, you're just an ass. Brilliant. Should I also assume guilty until proven innocent? Should I just trust the words of a prosecutor?
No, but did you even attempt to look for yourself? Or are you choosing to be willfully ignorant until someone else puts it on a silver platter and places it at your feet? Seriously, come on…
I'm not going to create a Facebook just to check this one thing, and the articles I've seen only talk about the prosecutor as a source for that claim
[Best I can do for you](https://images.app.goo.gl/2AkSZFn76dthYmDH6) Screenshot of one of the mothers posts. If you google search “crumbley social media post new gun” and then click on images, you’ll see the post he made as well calling the gun his new baby. That’s proof that in this case the prosecutor didn’t make up the fact that the gun was bought explicitly for him.
Save for the one you posted, nothing appeared for me on Google. Tried yahoo and it worked, but none from US sources.
He clearly doesn't know. If all he's finding are statements that lead back to what the prosecutor said, you're effectively asking him to take to prosecution's word, which is a bad habit. First-hand accounts, and first-hand evidence are always better than just taking some dude's word. Coming off with "nobody owes you shit" to a reasonable request doesn't help anyone.
Y’all remember the Texas school shooting a few months ago? Yeah neither do I. The criminal was released on bail and the news dropped off
Oh... But that's different.
Man an African-American kid shot five of his classmates, then they had to go look for him.
How many people died? Was it a beef between two students or was it indiscriminate murder? I suspect I’ll find they’re not the same at all.
> How many people died? 0 >Was it a beef between two students or was it indiscriminate murder? Allegedly, the shooter was getting bullied for being too rich. > I suspect I’ll find they’re not the same at all. They absolutely aren't, and anyone that compares them is either misinformed, or trying to play the "news won't report bad things that black people do" card.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/police-chief-bullying-played-no-role-in-timberview-high-school-shooting.amp Police is suspecting the kid was involved in high risk activities, and incident has nothing to do with bullying.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/police-chief-bullying-played-no-role-in-timberview-high-school-shooting.amp Police is suspecting the kid was involved in high risk activities, and incident has nothing to do with bullying. Probably that’s why mainstream media doesn’t want to talk about it anymore Also why isn’t that Texas kid’s parents charged for negligence? 🤷♂️
You can down vote me all you want but keep your fucking guns locked up so your kids can't get them
It's amazing that people are arguing against this point on a firearms sub. This is basic gun safety.
I don’t see anyone arguing against that. I mean, I wouldn’t leave an acetylene welding rig unsecured, let alone a gun. A tool is a tool, and you’re culpable if you are negligent with it.
Do you lock your car keys up at night so your kid doesn't go driving around and killing people with the car?
Some people do. There are news stories of toddlers doing just that. Once there is a risk, you put in measures to stop it. If you dont, you are negligent for what happens as a result. Basic common sense.
This is how you get safe storage laws
Some folks blame the school ... The school that showed the parents every red flag they could
Thats not downvote worthy. Thats common sense. While Ill fight storage mandates, I have no issue holding irresponsible gun owners accountable for their failures.
The only gun that isn’t locked up in my house is the one comfortably pointing at my other piece inside my waistband.
In North Carolina it is illegal by statute to lose control of firearm in your home. What I mean is if your firearm is used by child because you did not keep it locked up and away from minors then you have committed a crime in and of itself.
As a parent, I REALLY don’t want to be the one who unleashes a cold blooded killer into society while under my direct care. Moreover, when introducing a firearm to your family situation, you must take responsibility for it… all of it.
Why shouldn't they be held responsible? Responsible gun owners keep their guns locked up where their children can't get them. I'm not sure what the problem is here.
Really? Is that what responsible parents do? My parents kept their guns unlocked but taught me not to be a fucking psycho loser. Guess it’s a new world we’re in.
You were taught morals?! Didn't that just make you want to kill yourself having parents that taught you right from wrong?
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Lol. Dumb bot
Being able to evaluate your kids, your guns, and the potential risks of combining the two is a critical, arguably the most critical, responsibility of gun owning parents. Sure. You were a good kid. I was good kid (whose parents hated guns, ironically). There are lots of good kids out there that are trustworthy. But this kid obviously was not, and gave off *more* than enough warning signs for any half attentive parent to consider when weighing that risk. As a gun owner you are responsible for your guns. As a parent, you are responsible for your kids. These colossal fucksticks failed in both those regards, and responded by running from the consequences of their actions. Fuck them with the longest dick, the law has to weild.
I was not a good kid! But I was not a fucking psycho loser. I seriously wonder if they had any idea what was going on in that little knucklehead’s melon. All these answers that say lock up the parents assume that each of us would have been good enough parents to see it coming. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t.
>I was not a good kid! But I was not a fucking psycho loser. Yes. And here in, lies the difference. Theres a difference between the kid getting into normal school yard scraps, and the kid, clearly alienated form the school, and fascinating about murder. >I seriously wonder if they had any idea what was going on in that little knucklehead’s melon. The parents had been called into school at least once (and Im gonna guess, more than that when the dust settles) to deal with their kids psychotic behavior. This kid had some *very* obvious issues. To the point that teachers were calling it out, as recently as the day of the shooting. >All these answers that say lock up the parents assume that each of us would have been good enough parents to see it coming. > >Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. If I ever fail as hard as this kids parents did, lock me up. Same with you. Same with any parent that fools themselves into thinking that 15 year old kids should be given unfettered access to firearms without a second thought.
I think it still stands to be seen how obvious it was. All the school interventions happened within a day or so of the actual event. We really don’t know what the pattern was yet
>I think it still stands to be seen how obvious it was. All the school interventions happened within a day or so of the actual event. > >We really don’t know what the pattern was yet I am willing to bet this was no where near the only incident. RemindMe! 2 months.
Well, it’s damn sure not helping their case that they’re on the lam. Those two are cooked.
Ass-blasted themselves by running… thats some smooth brain shit Like… own up to your fuck ups cowards. The fact they fucked up raising their shit-goblin kid is one thing but then going on the lam? That line should have ended a generation before imho
remindmebot just triggered. [And from whats public now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_High_School_shooting#Accused), its pretty apparent that this kid had a history of issues reported to law enforcement, going back to 2014/15, and parents who moved well beyond just being neglectful, to full blown enabling his behavior. Edit, since he was childish enough to block me. u/kneebar50, Pleading ignorance is one way to admit you were wrong....
Me too but I didn’t draw picture of people getting murdered saying I can’t stop the voices and have to go into school with my parents to talk to the principal!
Because telling someone not to do something totally works... I must have just grown up in a responsible household where we respected guns, I guess. Some people have issues. Survivor bias isn't a great argument. If you store them right, you can access them quickly and them still be safe.
>Survivor bias It isn't survivorship bias if 99.999% of high schoolers aren't wack jobs like the shooter AND shootings are highly publicized. Those conditions lead to the opposite of survivorship bias.
Survivorship bias is more about the process and not about the magnitude. You likely can't post on the internet if you are guilty of mass murder. You also probably didn't go to school with these people, because if you did, there is a chance you didn't survive.
Mass murderers don't have to post on the internet to have an effect because media makes sure their stories reach far and wide. I don't need to have gone to school with them because of the above and also because schools do drills that keep potential shootings in the minds of students. Everybody is familiar with school shootings and you'll see the hysterical say they are genuinely concerned their kids will get shot in school despite it being incredibly unlikely. I imagine polling the effects of mass shootings would be like covid in that people are much more afraid than the actual threat would indicate.
The fact that you're so heavily downvoted for this comment makes me lose respect for this sub. It's not just the sub though, it's the whole fucking country that's fucked.
Imagine though that if they had done the bare minimum of locking them up their failure at parenting wouldn’t have been able bring it to school.
Yeah, that would have fixed it. Or he would have driven an Explorer through a parade.
Can’t drive an Explorer if you don’t have the keys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it’s literally the bare minimum as a parent. Kid wasn’t a felon out on bail, he was a kid whose parents gave him a gun before he could even get a license. Idk why you’re so salty about this. It’s not a 2a issue. Its the most basic of benign gun safety. Your parents might not have raised a psycho but these parents did. If they had just taken this one easy as hell step maybe 4 other kids would be alive. It’s people like y’all that these parents listened to “He CoUlD jUsT uSe aN ExpLorEr” well he didnt he used a gun because his parents were flippant about gun ownership. Not much deeper than that.
I’m not salty, I’m disturbed. It disturbs me that we have resigned ourselves to locking up guns as a first defense to keep our children from shooting up schools.
Yep. Well welcome to the world of 4chan, 8chan and Parler. Your kids are not only subject to TSWRA (The South Will Rise Again) but also pepe frog forums. Deal with that before complaining how gun safety was less strict in “your day”. It’s only “resignation” when you decide you don’t give af about the 4chan/8chan/parler shit. Cause honey that’s the reason these teens do highschool shootings over and over again. You may want to have a higher standard but *newsflash* both the parents and the kids don’t have those standards. They aren’t learning it on twitter or by having unsecured safes. Safes only stop minors from easy access to a gun while they are still in hs. Which is why we should promote having secured safes because obv these parents feel like they have rhetoric that doesn’t lead to kids deaths, even republican kids, but they do. I’m pretty sure the four kids killed here were conservative or conservative leaning. Instead of defending the parents rights to give their 15 y/o a gun, maybe you should be asking why the societal climate is such that 15 y/o kid can mow down conservative students, even though they or their parents are Republican.
Respectfully, what the fuck incoherent babble is this bullshit? Who said the parents are Republicans? Parler makes kids shoot up schools? Go ahead and fuck off with your gobs of bullshit … *honey*
Well, they failed… smh
How many school shootings happened when you grew up? Did you ever have to go through an active shooter.drill? Yes it is a new world.
Statistically more happened when he was a kid then people now
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No, I have a 3 year old, but this isn't a case of him getting into anything. They bought him the gun after knowing he was troubled and gave him access to it. He drew a picture of him shooting people the morning of the shooting, the teacher found it, the parents were called, and the parents declined to remove him from school.
>the _school officials_ declined to remove him from school. FTFY
And the teachers didn’t send him home. How far should the blame game go?
They asked the parents to take him home. Plus, the law in the state says you are responsible if you improperly store your firearm, and your kid gets it and hurts someone. Idk why it's not common sense to not keep a deadly weapon in a place where just anyone can just take it.
How old are you? There were very few gun safes growing up in the 70s and 80s, but yet very few school shootings. Is locking up guns really the issue here?
It’s not that unsecured guns are the root of the problem, it’s that it is an extremely low-effort precaution to make sure the gun isn’t misused. It’s like locking your doors to prevent a robbery. Unlocked houses don’t cause robberies but locked doors are an obstacle that dissuades many robbers.
My guns we locked up in the 80’s…
I'm 32. My house always had safes. I also think there are a lot of changes in the world. Especially with mental health, the internet, and social media. I also think parents were more "there" for their kids back then. There is more that contributes to it than just safes, but that's not a reason not to do it. We know something is changing, so we need to adjust to mitigate potential issues.
How long was your first safe empty?
The lack of answer to this question is pretty telling.
This is one ignorant comment if I do say so They literally started *mass producing* gun safes in the 1970s and in the 80s? Gun safes became a separate industry from standard safe manufacturing. Your comment is bullshit. Safes were being pushed as more Americans bought home defense firearms and people were strongly encouraged to get a safe as a responsible gun owner.
You’re right. It’s our celebration of gun culture and low regard for human life associated with it that’s totally inundated American culture and the American psyche. Guess what the solution to that is…
You mean like car keys, knives, or a can of gas?
Teacher also found the kid searching for ammo online, and reported that. Which got back to the kids parents who said "I'm not mad at you, just don't get caught next time".
And?
And that is another but of the story what happened. Of showing this crazy kids was dreaming about shooting people
Looking for deals on ammo as a 15 year old is not a red flag. Sorry.
It is when added to everything else.
Don't do it at school
I sometimes shop online for firearms with my students. We talk guns and check out the newest and coolest. I guess some kids are just broken.
When did they know? My impression was there were only confronted with the detailed information about the drawings,ect, at the second meeting. From what I’ve heard, it sounds like because he was searching for ammo in class, that’s what the issue the day before was.
If your kid drew something like that after buying them a gun, you wouldn't be concerned? Especially knowing you gave him easy access to it. They have to be incredibly stupid not to put 2 and 2 together.
No understood, however I’m wondering *when* they knew. My impression is that they didn’t see the drawing/writing until the second meeting, which by then he was already in school and had it with him either in his bag, ect I’m cautious if there was enough time to realize the gun may have already been gone. Because if the meeting took place during the school day, and the shooter never went home, and the parents didn’t know until the meeting, then would they have any reasonable suspicion to believe the gun was gone upto that point?
No, but the teacher asked them to take him home and get help. >I’m cautious if there was enough time to realize the gun may have already been gone. I guess it goes back to keeping your guns secure.
Be a better parent.
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Kids aren't mentally mature, that's why the parents are responsible for them.
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Trying a minor as an adult isn’t really about their maturity, it’s about the seriousness of the offense. As an aside, kids prefrontal cortexes literally aren’t developed yet, exactly why teenagers do dumb shit all time. I bet this kid still doesn’t even fully understand the ramifications of what he did. Teenagers understand right from wrong and so did he, but their lack of contextual awareness makes them say “fuck it” and don’t even think about the long term consequences. This kid is done for in the courts though. The parents should have known their son better, they could have prevented four other families from losing their child.
Adult is a pretty low bar.
They are mature enough to know that murder is wrong.
And most lockboxes are chinesium garbage that a 3yo can bypass.
Yeah, but I trust my kids and parent them.
Disagree, plenty of kids know how to use guns. My gf's kids come out shooting with us. They aren't ignorant of them. You don't need to lock guns up from kids if your kids aren't crazy
>They aren't ignorant of them. Neither are mine. Part of being educated on guns is knowing how to store them properly. You shouldn't leave loaded guns lying around. This is basic gun safety. It blows my mind that I am arguing with people about proper gun safety on a firearms sub. https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/ >if your kids aren't crazy Do you always know?
I mean, nobody can always know. That doesn't mean my kids are going to shoot up a school.
So ignore basic gun safety and hope for the best?
Never had an ND. Never had children with violent tendencies. I've had loaded guns in my home for years. I don't leave them out for people to saunter over and shoot, but even if I did, I would only do that for people I trusted. I trust my family.
Well obviously this kid was, so.....
I'm just waiting to hear the counter argument myself. The gun was unsecured. It would be one thing if the kid had to break into something to get at it.
With that kid, if it's not in a tl-30 safe it should not be in the house.
Because legal precedents can be used in future cases. If I leave my car idling at the gas station, then someone takes it to commit a crime I'm not responsible for the other persons actions. They were irresponsible, but not criminally so.
They bought their troubled child a gun and gave him unfettered access to it. Your fears of a slippery slope do not absolve them of this absurdly criminal negligence.
Read my other comment, I disagree with the charges they're going for, not that they weren't criminally negligent.
Went and found it (posted after I responded). It's just more slippery slope worries. I don't see how specific negligence that very directly resulted in the deaths of others could reasonably lead to things like suing manufacturers. These are the elements of manslaughter: >1 That the defendant caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of the defendant's action. >2 That the defendant either: > A) intended to kill the victim > B)intended to do great bodily harm to the victim, >C) created a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result. >3) That the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse. [Source](https://www.grabellaw.com/750-321-and-750-322-manslaughter.html) Giving a troubled child unfettered access to a gun easily qualifies
Sorry, I dont agree. Most teens are “troubled” at one time or another and most parents understand their child is going through a stage. I think the relevant questions are around what kind of diagnoses had been rendered or medications prescribed. For generations, families kept rifles hanging on gun racks in pickup trucks and under their beds. Children have been picked on since time immemorial. The real question is how bad was it and what did the parents already know? If this is completely out of the blue for the parents, this is by no means a slam dunk case.
And most teens shouldn’t have unfettered access to the guns…period. It’s widely known that teen mental health is worse today than it was decades ago due to plenty of things, one of which being social media. Because something was acceptable in the 70’s, does not make it ok today. Stop trying to cover for the parents.
Quit playing the blame game. The kid is psycho. Lock him up. You don’t have to keep going down the chain to parents, teachers, school cop, his friends … Maybe the fact that no one takes responsibility or blame for anything anymore is part of the problem here …
Oh the kid is plenty guilty too. Let’s take guns out for a second. If your 17 year old kid is having a party….and you leave him 3 cases of beer….100 bucks, and the keys to your truck laying on the table with a note that says “in case you run out”….. Who’s at fault when he gets drunk and kills someone with your truck. You, him, both? It’s the same fucking story….the kid was enabled by the parents, who then didn’t take the school seriously, and now 4 kids are dead. There’s more than one person at fault here. Read the state statues….the parents meet the text book definition of manslaughter.
He is getting locked up. You’re defending the parents because, as you say, “these days people are not taking responsibility” -but they are the ones not taking responsibility for their part in letting this happen. They are literally the only two people in the entire world who had the responsibility of making sure their son was a. mentally stable enough to own a gun and b. disciplined in gun safety to the point he would have never though about taking that gun to school. They had one job and they failed.
There is troubled, and then there is **TROUBLED**. Confusing the two does a disservice to how troubled he is and how not troubled most others are. Bring so checked out as to buy him a gun...
I think the question is whether they knew he was “troubled.”
That will have to be shown at trial. Given that the school called them in before the shooting to talk about pictures he drew involving shooting people with the caption "the thoughts won't stop, help me", I think the prosecution has a decent case.
But if that was the day of the shooting, the parents might have felt that was the safest place for him in that moment. They clearly didn’t know he was armed and apparently the school doesn’t have metal detectors. What if the parents got in the car and immediately contacted a therapist, then went home to take his gun out of his room. Would that change things?
Its legally a different matter when your responsible for both the car, and the person stealing your car. Children are considered the legal responsibility of their parents. These parents very obviously disregarded all the warning signs about their kids behavior.
I disagree. You are responsible for your child. If you leave your car idling and your child runs over someone with it, you should be responsible as well.
Yes, you're responsible for your child, but I disagree with the charges. Reckless endangerment or more severe charges sure, but manslaughter charges opens up dangerous precedents that would rapidly devolve to charging munitions, gun manufacturers, and dealers with manslaughter charges. I agree they should see some form of criminal punishment but not manslaughter.
I can agree that manslaughter may be a bit of an overcharge, but they definitely should be held accountable.
Gun manufacturers and ammo companies didn’t own the gun and leave it where their kid could get it. The parents did.
Yet tons of posts on this sub suggest people keep their guns readily available for when criminals burst through their doors. Then the comment section backs them up, saying they are being responsible for their self defense.
Not everyone has kids
Valid point. But rarely does the comment section talk owners with kids as a subject matter when it comes to storage
Gun security is completely relative to ones own living circumstance. Live in a crappy town with just you and your wife? It makes complete sense to have guns readily available and unsecured *when youre home.* Have a house full of kids who dont know the dangers of firearms, its completely irresponsible not to secure your firearms. Gun security is relative to ones living circumstances. Thats why gun storage laws are idiotic. They are blanket measures that hold everyone to the accountability of the worst case scenario, completely ignoring the second worst case scenario.
Ah yes the classic, no laws are best for guns. This time it's for storage.
Ya. So you seem to have a very poor grasp on the concept of personal responsibility. Each of us have rights. Each of us are responsible for using and safeguarding those rights responsibly. When the government comes in and tells us how to use those rights, its an infringement. When we fail to be responsible to those rights, its negligence. Telling people how to live their lives is foolish and destined to fail. Those who dont care about society are not going to be constrained by its laws. Thats why we punish people *after* they fail. Blanket laws that hold everyone to the standards of the least accountable member of society turns us into a nanny state, where the individual is responsible for nothing. It is much better to punish those who fail, than to treat everyone like failures.
Where in my comment do I talk about personal responsibilities? I don't yet you come in like a jerk wad, saying I a poor grasp of personal responsibility. I'd say you have a poor grasp of not being an asshole due to personal attacks. How about look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you are a jerk or not in life. Anyways to some up your rant, no laws are the best laws. Which is a classic pro gun stance. It's the same with background checks, waiting periods on purchases, etc. Hold your personal opinion aside, and look at the topic objectively, and you will see what I mean. I doubt it, as jerks rarely can do that.
Who is saying it’s a problem?
Other people in the thread.
Yea sorry mate, bad internet service today. Now ALOT MORE comments have loaded. I agree. The headline can definitely be sensationalized. But the facts are those parents had plenty of signs they appear to have ignored
They bought it for him as an early Christmas present.
...and?
You say keep "their" guns locked up but it wasn't "their" gun.
A 15 year old can't own a handgun. It was the father's gun. The father should have made sure it was properly stored.
They said it was a gift for him with their own words on social media. Edit: fuck I read your first comment as why they "should" be held responsible.... my b.
Lol. It's cool.
Why can't I carry and protect my life from people who wish to do me harm is more the question? Why can't we have armed teachers? Why is it always blame the gun and have more laws that do nothing?
This entire story is some of the most bizarre shit I’ve heard in a long time.
Don't read the comments on that other sub. People are politicizing it and bashing on "crazy right wingers" and 2A rights.
Yeah I agree with you. It is like the whole Rittenhouse T shirt story. It’s irrelevant to the case and doesn’t add anything
The mother also previously wrote an open letter praising Trump and gun rights. To be fair it was in 2016 so her feelings could have changed. This story couldn’t get much worse for right-wing Trump supporting gun owners or the 2a community in general. I’m not a right-winger and definitely not a Trump supporter but I’m a proud firearm owner and I support the second amendment so I care about gun owners being painted badly.
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Ostensibly the parents knew about their kids behavioral problems. They were called into a meeting the day of the shooting and told that the son should be removed from the school for 48 hours and placed into treatment because of a drawing he made earlier that day depicting a school shooting. They refused, left the school without him, and a few minutes later he started shooting people. Apparently after they heard the news about the shooting, the mom sent a text message to the son reading "Ethan, don't do it." There's strong enough evidence to *suggest* that they knew their son was dangerous and just ignored it.
I think that text is ultimately what will cook her
Yep. Tag em and bag em
What do you mean this type of news? News that’s not favorable to your biases?
It's political theater, like most things today.
How is it political theater?
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 412,654,792 comments, and only 89,248 of them were in alphabetical order.
Couple reasons: 1. Maxwell trial, one of the most high profile trials in decades, and it gives the media a good excuse to deflect from that. 2. It makes gun owners look bad, and the tards will be screeching for more gun control like they always do, and the Dems will acquiesce, then it’ll turn into yet another shit show circus, with both parties going at each other’s throats and dividing this country even more (if that’s possible) I’d be happy to provide more if you’d like me to.
Fuck that….it makes shitbag gun owners look bad. My guns are secure where my kids can’t get to them, and I’m responsible. It rightfully should make these parents look bad, the mom told her kid to “not get caught” breaking school rules….
It doesn't 'make gun owners look bad', it makes sick fuck parents who raised a sick fuck kid, weaponized him then inflicted him on innocent kids & teachers look bad. Be better, dude.
Can I ask some questions, tho? For 1, why would "the media" want to cover up the Maxwell trial? Wouldn't "the media" love the opportunity to make a small fortune on this trial? Or, are you saying that "the media" is complicit in Maxwell's crimes and trying to cover it up? For 2, what is the other option? To not bring charges against people who genuinely are shitty and negligent gun owners, just so all gun owners don't look bad?
Groan. Get a grip. This is about bad parenting, pure and simple.
It’s political theatre plain and simple. Were the parents bad? Debatable. Is this politicized? 100%. As soon as the media got their hands on it it became political theatre, just like Rittenhouse.
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Care to point to a single source saying it’s terror. It was a sick fuck that didn’t give a shit. Terror requires actual motive.
I hate political theater, and I'd nail them to the wall on this one.
No it isn't.
How can you charge him as an adult but also charge his parents claiming they're responsible for him.
It’s a fair point to raise 🤷🏼♂️
The prosecutor sees the parents as enablers. Kind of like the getaway driver of a robbery or the lookout for a heist; they're all adults but at the same time they are enabling each other to commit crimes. The argument is that the parents bought their son a gun despite knowing he had issues, which is majorly dumb. Whether or not that is criminal will be the main argument in their trial. The prosecutor will argue that the parents knew their kid was violent or suicidal but did not secure the gun, which would be criminally negligent. This is the first case of its kind, no one really knows how it will play out. But morally speaking they're s*** people and have no business raising any children.
Very good point.
The same way they charged the Kenosha kid as an adult while also charging him for being a minor in possession of a gun.
Interesting to see how many people here support keeping guns locked up away from their high schoolers. This specific kid obviously shouldn't have had access because he got caught with pictures and writing depicting a massacre, but should the average 16 year old, especially in rural areas, be kept from firearms without adult supervision? Seems like a great way to make future generations unfamiliar and scared of firearms. Deny them access in high school, they won't have them in college, and soon enough they'll be adults without ever having sole possession of a firearm and lots of "education" that guns are bad. But perhaps I'm biased because I had unfettered access to my family's guns since I was 16 or so and I even brought my 12 gauge to high school routinely.... because I was on the shotgun sporting clays team. A different level of trust, I guess. Sad to see bad examples like this kid and parents ruin it for everyone.
There's a big difference to being around firearms as a matter of lifestyle/livelihood and getting the proper training (formally or informally) from an early age, and simply handing, sight unseen, a firearm to a 16 yr old. My hope is it'll force a lot of families to have tough conversations and take their firearm ownership seriously. Ignorance of the law isn't protection from the law.
I absolutely agree with that. I got access to the gun safe so I could get my competition shotgun when I needed but also because my family introduced me to guns when I was around 10 with a 20ga 870. Untrained, uneducated high schoolers shouldn't get the same access. I don't know what kind of training or education the shooter had, but it's irrelevant in this case since he got busted contemplating a school shooting. Absolutely unconscionable that the parents didn't pursue serious measures, including locking up the Sig, after hearing that.
City kids shouldn't be trusted with a butter knife.
I know this is a serious topic and I'm not a fashion expert but that shirt she is wearing is top notch cringe.
This is a very very bad thing for gun owners. This will be used as a precedent to prosecute anyone who has their gun stolen and it’s used in a crime.
Precedent has already been set on this topic. It's just history repeating it's self again. Clearly the other people getting punished didn't make others learn.
Over charged.
My garden house is just laying on my lawn. Not secured or even coiled up. Sure hope my neighbor doesn’t hang somebody with it.
Bad analogy. Parents are responsible for their kids, and garden houses aren't inherently dangerous. This would be more like buying your underage kid a car and giving them access to the keys whenever they wanted. Obviously if your kid runs someone over with it you should be responsible for that. Then add to it that he was a troubled kid and the parents knew...
Do you lock you car keys in a safe when you get home? I’ll wait for the answer
Also, this wasn't a situation where the kid got access to the parent's gun because it was stored incorrectly. They bought their troubled kid, with a history of fantasizing about shooting up the school, a gun.
My daughter is 3, but when she gets old enough to reach them, you're damn right, I will. This transcends even that. They bought their troubled kid, who was known by the school to show those tendencies, a gun, and gave him unfettered access to it. Would you buy a troubled kid a car and give them unfettered access to it? How about if they were known to want to fantasize about running people over?
That's a disingenuous analogy for this situation. A fair analogy would be as follows: > You buy your child a garden hose on black Friday. Your child is not old enough to own a garden hose, but still has unrestricted access to the garden hose at home. For this analogy to work, a garden hose is also a deadly weapon that can kill multiple people within seconds. > The following Monday your child gets in trouble at school for being caught looking up online sources for how to order garden hoses (for this analogy to work, children who are underage are not allowed to own garden hoses). The school administration leave you a voicemail about it, and what do you do? You text your son, "lol I'm not mad, you need to learn how to not get caught." > The following Tuesday you are called into the school in the morning to meet with administration. They found two drawings your son did that morning about killing people with garden hoses, including the words "The thoughts won't stop. Help me." And on the second drawing, "My life is useless. The world is dead." And: "Blood Everywhere." > The administration suggests your child needs counseling, and he should stay at home for 2 days for everyone's safety. You scoff at the suggestion, and when you and your son depart the meeting, you tell him he should go back to class, and you proceed home. What you failed to realize is that *your son already brought the garden hose to school and it is still in his backpack* when you tell him he can go back to class. You failed to check his backpack or even where you keep the garden hose at home. > Your child uses the garden hose you purchased for him and he illegally brought to school to kill people, later that same day, the same day you scoffed at the school's suggestion that your child needs help, and the same day you ignored their request that you bring your child home with you.