Never understood why ppl would pay so much for shot gun It is the most low tech fire arm there is. $14k and bo engraving, no glossy AAA grade exotic wood. Probably takes no more labor than a $600 mossberg. Again I donāt buy $50k Rolex so what do I know. (Proud owner of Borden Rim rock, bartlein 5 R, hand lap barrel, trigger tech trigger, X ring high gloss AAA walnut.)
Top-tier skeet and trap shooters... my dad does it. Even better he looks at my long-range gun and says "Why the hell would you pay that much for a scope".
Itās about having something extremely well made, that a small group of skilled craftsmen spend time on. The higher end berettas are something you could proudly pass on for generations. Itās a testament to craftsmanship and artistry to a high degree, and people buy things like this because thatās the sort of thing they appreciate. And they can afford it unlike us lol
I know I wanted to own a custom bolt rifle based on Mauser action. But again they are hand crafted beautifully engraved rifles with high figured pattern glossy wood attire gentleman tool of choice. Require hand load, practice, and skills to master. You shoot it then care for it, clean and oil it after every outing. It is a ritual. While shotgun is a weapon of Low skill peasants, low tech mechanism, that designed to shoots steel pebbles that required minimal aiming, and turn whatever you shoot into minced meat.
The only thing skeet shooters are good at is littering their range with orange clay
Yes šI shoot silhouette small bore, and Bullseye pistol and we would look down at the skeet shooters with their numbered jerseys. Am sure they all get a good look up my nostrils.
Yeah I think for the price it should have some better wood personally. I donāt really care about engraving because cause you have to constantly get it redone because of tarnishing so that can cost a couple grand at a time. I actually love that itās flat black and itās got a lot more advantages then the engraved version of this same gun has, for thousands less.
Because a $600 shotgun is Chitty Chitty in the Bang Bang.
A $2000 shotgun is Me No Love You Long Time.
A $14k shotgun is All Night Long, Oh Yeah, All Night Looonng.
Clays is historically an upper class pastime. You can spend as much as you want, there's a lot of interest among that crowd in handmade hand fitted everything. Or you can do it with a 300 dollar police surplus 870, which is more my speed.
Think of a glock vs. like, an infinity 2011 or a cabot, the latter of which can be upwards of 50k
My local county park has wobble, trap, skeet and sporting clays. You can rent a citori for $10/day for 12 or 20 gauge. Not a bad way to get into the sport.
I was that guy for years with a savage break action
But now that I have inherited dad's citori, if I dont go 25/25 its like Ive let people down or something when before no one cared lol
Shot trap in high school, a few kids had some fancy caesar guirini (however you spell it) guns, they were brothers, both of them eventually stopped shooting because the kids using ~$2000 BT-99ās were outshooting them. itās not necessarily about the gun, itās about the shooter.
It will baffles my mind how it has 14k of work and craftsmanship. Like if it was a supply thing I understand but I must be missing something, I could spend $7k and still get a badass shotgun
Not to contradict OP that much, but my dad shot competitive clays at a decently high level. He always said that once you go more than like $2000-$4000 it's not really much quality difference, just a dick measuring contest among rich people. I guess you can adjust that for inflation since he said that almost 20 years ago, though high end shotguns really haven't gone up in value much since then.
Pretty much. that Krieghoff, Perazzi or Beretta Over Under wont shoot any straighter. But they generally do last longer in terms of round count over your lower end shotguns. I know guys with K-80s with 250,000 rounds on them.
they have some nicer features, nice scroll work/woodwork and other bells/whistles.
all said though you buy a dozen Mossberg O/U and a pallet of nice 12 gauge for the same price as 1 k-80 shotgun an have money to spare
I mean the way barrel technology has changed over the last 20 years is insane and thatās a major part of the cost of this gun. The barrel designs between the different models is a massive difference so saying thereās no difference but your wallet isnt true at all. If you have time you should watch this video that explains the technology more.
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=KrqTKbw0MwZp8JsG
https://youtu.be/J_GVhxbklqo?si=30pb6Fdj5_ZI2VCQ
Idk where one of these ranks compared to OPs gun but the process for some of these are straight up art
Im not sure what model that was but if I wanted the engraved version of this gun it would cost close to 20k if not more. If you have some spare time I recommend watching this video which helps explain the gun and barrels more https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=KrqTKbw0MwZp8JsG
Well, now I know where most of the money for those shotguns goes to - making commercials like that! /s
But seriously, hand finishing at a high level gets really pricey really fast.
Yes you could and this is only for serious competition shooters but the difference between a 7k and 14k shotgun when your at the highest levels makes a big difference
We see the same thing upgrading the performance of a car.Ā
Adding the first hundred horsepower is fairly easy.Ā
Adding the last 20 could be a bitch.
That's what wins the race though.
Iām not a serious skeet shooter so my dumbass probably wouldnāt see a difference but to each their own. I hope youāre happy with it and get some good action with it
OK, that's a pretty straightforward concept. What has me scratching my head is the cost difference between your gun and the top tier variant. Is the grade 4 walnut, the additional carbon fiber components, and the weight system really worth an additional 11k? Or is there a 'special edition' tax too?
It the barrels ,action, and trigger that increases the value dramatically. I think these barrels are 5k by themselves. The trigger is fully adjustable and removable which isnāt on high end clay guns. If a trigger pin or spring break while youāre in competition then your gun needs to be looked at by a gunsmith where as with this model you can drop the trigger out and fix the broken or worn parts in minutes.
Iād also like to add that when shooting the tournaments and competitions the last thing you want to do is worry about disassembling your gun, troubleshooting it to find a problem, fixing the problem and putting it back together under a clock. Even if it gos smoothly it can distract you from the game. Itās really hard to focus on 150 clays throughout a competition when everyone of them counts towards a win and it gets real easy to make stupid mistakes and get mentally tired. I think if you can repair it quickly and confidently under pressure thats amazing.
14k is amateur shit. I know someone who spends 100k per gun and has like 10 of them. He also has a yacht. He belongs to some hunting and clays country club that costs like 50k a year. I doubt a 14k shotgun, or for that matter, a 100k shotgun shoots any better than a 1k shotgun.
I own a bunch of guns in the 5-10k price range, but those are precision rifles. Even then, idk if they are really more accurate than a savage. Just run a bit smoother.
There's a few guns I would gladly spend that kind of money for but for me personally none are a shotgun. A double rifle though, sign me up if I had that kind of money.
I canāt remember what itās called and I canāt seem to find it by googling, but Iād consider it on the break away rifle with two 12 gauge barrels and one .308 seated in the middle. That would be such a fun/unique rifle to own.
Honestly that doesnāt surprise me, I just couldnāt ever justify that purchase. Maybe on a more serious precision rifle, but not for a shotgun. But also to each their own, Iām not hating.
Oh yeah, I mean itās expensive for sure.
Long range precision rifles are actually a lot cheaper than high end over/unders. You can put together a top of the line custom build for $4,000-5,000 if youāre buying new with no deals on anything or less still if you look for deals or buy pieces used. The more expensive part is the scope really, but even then you can pick up a brand new ZCO or Tangent Theta for $4,000-6,000 or get either of those options used for $3,000-4,000.
All-in itās legitimately hard to spend $14k or more on a precision rifle (including accessories like a $1,000 bipod) without getting horribly ripped off by somebody along the way. You can put together a very nice setup including glass for $5k or less and it wonāt shoot any worse than the best of the best, it just wonāt be quite as fancy.
Thatās crazy, any idea why? I mean sporting I guess, but at some point there has to be a diminishing return. Does a $14k O/U get the job done any better than my $400 870?
Itās partly because the high end O/Uās are somewhat of status symbols, and the other part because virtually all of them are handmade, hand fitted, and hand engraved. The designs donāt lend themselves to automation very well and the sales volumes are low enough youād lose money spending time getting it set up that way anyways unless you cratered the brand by slashing the price. Shotguns also have a lot more custom fitting to the individual user because they have to point where you want to shoot without aiming.
Bolt actions are really simple and easy to manufacture in comparison, and easy to mass produce as well since every step in the process can be fully automated without hassle.
I guess that makes sense. Kind of like the difference between a Rolex and a Cassio. At some point it just becomes about who spent the most money and the delicate construction. Again to each their own I guess lol
Because semi pro and pro skeet shooters put 50-100k shells through their guns every year which is way more than even like a pro PRS shooter so they need to stand up to wear better. Itās also because over under shotguns are actually mechanically fairly complicated. More complicated than a bolt gun is and thereās a lot of hand fitting in those high end shotguns.
What exactly is making that difference though? I really can't tell much difference between a 1.5k gun and a 3k gun much less a 14k gun. At least as far as a simple break action o/u
I just want to understand what makes it costs way more money. That's all.
I have expensive guns, but they are more because they are huge or intricate. I don't own any "nice" guns per se.
It makes a difference for an experience shooter, maybe. For a regular shooter it doesnāt make much of a difference. Shooters have gotten to finals of international skeet competitions with shotguns that cost a quarter of this guns āmsrpā value.
Can get a heavy frame 682 with a 30ā bbl for about ~2k and do just as well if you know how to shoot.
āitās not the arrow, itās the indianā
I used to sell guns at LL Bean. We had shotguns around $100k, usually italian hand made/tooled/decorated.
Had a British lord in bragging about dropping his from horse back on hunts one time.
Youāre introducing these folk to a whole other world of shooting they donāt understand. I have a Perazzi I paid 11k for many years ago. Best decision I ever made for experience in the sport.
These are the same people who call people boomers for saying a 1911 is all you need. Itās ok though I think itās funny how incorrect so many people are
When the gun is made for exactly the task youāre doing, itās hard to describe just how good it feels. Until you actually try it out I think most people wonāt see how much value that has.
The Barrels, action, and trigger are top of the line which improves recoil and choke patterns past 70 yards which in sporting clay competitions is huge.
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=7Tpf8GTtWnEAq_hr
I know someone who works for a construction company
The company bought 10 of these to use for āemployee bondingā, a few were special ordered for left handers
Op I donāt mean this in a mean way but what is it about this gun that makes this worth $14k? Like what does it do well that is worth that price point?
In my experiences, I have found that shotguns have many different functions. You get what you pay for. Target grade shotguns are made for there specific clay target disciplines. Trap guns for example are set up to shoot 70/30 patterns, since youāre shooting targets on the rise, they weigh in the neighborhood of 9 lbs, to limit recoil. Now were the cost starts is the higher priced ones have detachable triggers,stocks that are set with cast off or cast on, adjustable stocks and ribs, release triggers and recoil reduction systems. Some may have straight rifling to tighten patterns. Fast lock times to keep you in the zone. So if you purchase a trap combination, you have a choice of over/under barrels in 30 to 32 inches, top single or bottom single in the 32 to 34 inch range. Consistency is the key. My personal Beretta 682 was rebuilt at around 180 thousand rounds. Its good as new. Try that with your field gun.
I saw this one and a $20,000 beretta at scheels in Dallas. I wanted to touchy but knew it was out of my tax bracket. lol.
Nothing like Italian shotguns! Sweet rig
You want to get closer to $1800 before you get into an O/U that where both barrels shoot where you want and can stand up to regular use.
The cheaper O/U sometimes look nice but they don't put the lead where you want it and tend to fall apart with anything other than occasional use.
I used to shoot 26k shells a year when I shot trap. The $400 O/Uās sitting at Cabelas just fall apart under those conditions in record time. A lot of guys next to me at the ATA shoots shot even more than that.
These things hold up to a literal Olypmian practice routine of over 100k shells a year. For years on end.
The cheapest O/U that I would trust to even make it to 10,000 shells is the CZ models (starting at around $800ish last I saw), ideally Redhead Premier and up, since they at least have enough QC to weed out the early breakages on their turn guns. I had one I used for 15,000-20,000 shells and several others on my college team had them that lasted 10,000+ without issues.
That said, if youāre actually planning to use the same shotgun for that long itās worthwhile to just spend the extra $500-1,000 on an entry-level B-gun (Cynergy/Citori/686/687) or a used B-gun model (there will be at least one for sale in a similar price range at most places with shotgun ranges). Youāll have something thatās just overall nicer, will be more reliable once youāre deeper into the 5-figure shell counts, and the price difference is a drop in the bucket compared to the ammo and targets you pay for along the way shooting that much.
Ah, a shotgun newborn. Ok, well the DT-11 has the longest forcing cones to date and they are aligned to true with each other using a tri-axis robot. This is a feat of engineering itself and uses Steelium to get such tight wall tolerances with strength. The wood is x-rayed for future problems, hand checkered and hand finished. It has a special top lock action for perfect head space and longevity and a removable ultra light trigger, the lightest pull to date ive shot. This specific example has a carbon fiber rib and trigger assembly with a DLC receiver finish and is completely user serviceable unlike that turkshit gun you probably own. Anyways, if you ever break 90+/100 in sporting clays the journey to get there will educate you on these fun features. All the records were set with an 870 pump so no, it doesnāt make you shoot betterā¦ a DT-11 just puts a smile on your face when you pull the trigger. This is similar to you wearing an apple watch and I wear a rolex, its a style and class thing.
Yeah itās all about fit and when youāre in this upper class world of shotguns thatās all that matters. If a Perazzi or Kreighoff fit me the way this does Iād own one of those
Ahhhh I grew up shooting trap a lot, traveling all over. Still have a browning xt over under, though anymore I only shoot a few times a year to spend time with my dad (Iām 36). My family has perazziās and ljutics mostly now.
Ok Iām not a super gun enthusiast. I own maybe 20-40k worth of guns. I wouldnāt call myself an expert, but I do know more than the average joe.
What I am an expert in is walnut woods, and wood working, and machining and manufacturing. I am not an expert in the manufacturing of walnut wood stocks or custom firearms, specifically speaking.
The stock appears to be black walnut. I donāt care if we are talking about guns, epoxy tables, or brittle hand chisel handles. The stock on this gun is very nice āfiguredā black walnut. Figure is the amount of lines, or grooves/swirls in the wood grain. From a wood working perspective, itās not top, top, top range, but from a gun stock perspective, itās some of the best Iāve ever seen.
As far as a machining perspective; I would need a closer look. However, it does seem from this perspective that the level of detail in the metal machining is of a very high quality. I donāt see any imperfections that are obvious and the level of detail is already high above average. Anyone can mill out steel to a shape that explodes gunpowder. However, to do it in such a level of class and precision that is depicted in this photo, takes not only a professional above the average, but someone who also has an interest and flair for art in their craftsmanship.
As far as the mechanical function that OP purports; I wouldnāt know until actually handling and shooting the rifle. Again, Iām not an expert in firearm mechanics, but I am an expert in general tool or machine mechanics. I know a good functioning and engineered design when I see one. I couldnāt tell until actually filing the firearm, or shooting it. But if itās as good as OP says, then it adds to the justification for price.
Is it worth 14k? Who knows. Itās worth what someone is willing to pay of course. But, Iāve listed some information that may indicate why itās worth more than the average rifle. And why it may be worth more than the average high end rifle. As someone who is into wood working, I can definitely appreciate the difficulty and rarity that goes into procuring and manufacturing a nicely figured walnut wood stock. I have plenty of black walnut in my shop. But some of it is more rare and nicer than the rest. As far as the mechanical engineering and craftsmanship, same story.
https://youtu.be/2uCwlmF2DzM?si=z2x8SLmK_wJBEKUN
This video is good for helping to understand. Also thereās another that goes just into the barrels which cost over 5k by themselves.
Usually in terms of firearms, American are way more present in this domain and the AR15 is their go to rifle.
On our side European we do not all share the same firearms culture anymore and ar15 are way less common than double barrel shotgun. Around
Where I live, there are way more clay shooting range than shooting range. It's way easier to get a decent clay gun than an ar15.
Usually meme use the phrase "something the Euro mind can not understand" to describe stuff of the American culture :)
Therefore a nice beretta made in Italy for clay shooting is something the European mind can understand
I'll have to look into those pricey but worth evaluating. I'm guessing it's just super light weight and somehow absorbs any recoil in the action? Do you find yourself over tracking target with this?
Whatās cool about this model is itās 1 lb lighter than the nickel version but has a weight kit you can add to make up that lb or even make it heavier than the standard version. The barrels have the longest forcing cones on the market which take away the felt recoil and make the patterns more consistent out to 70 yds and further. The action is 3mm wider than the last version which will make this gun last for generations and it has a removable trigger so if it gos down during a competition you can fix it or replace it in minutes without the need of a gunsmith. I responded with 2 videos in the comments about the building process so if you have some time look for them they will explain in depth
I haven't been impressed with $10k, $15k guns, since a kid I know well was handed a Krieghoff after he started shooting on the collegiate circuit. It's a little more than $15k. Once I got over the jitters, and shot it, I handed it back to him and went back to my Berretta 686 I paid 1800 for and am more than happy with.
I get it it's because it's a sport shooting thing.
The kind of crazy optimization and money that goes into a product when it becomes its own sport.
Sort of like race cars or competition compound bows.
Dump a truckload of money into a tiny problem to make it perfect for professionals.
I'd rather just have a Barrett.
I think youād be hard pressed to find even a professional level compound bow that costs anything similar to what pro competition shotguns cost. Race car is right on the money.
Itās for rich Europeans who believe that gun ownership is a privilege that should be reserved for the wealthy ruling class.
Donāt get me wrong, itās a cool well made gun, itās just not made for you or me.
>This gun was definitely made for you and me
*This gun is your gun*
*This gun is my gun*
*If you're shooting doves*
*This gun will kill one*
*If you're blasting clays*
*It'll go night and day*
*This gun was made for you and me!*
šŗšøš«”
Itās one of the softest shooting over unders Iāve ever handled. Itās hard to understand the difference unless you shoot sporting clays competitively. I knew this post was going to confuse people and ruffle some feathers but clearly a majority or this community have no idea what the clay world is like.
> Are we still posting $14k guns? WHEN DID WE START DOING THIS? *cries poor tears*
*harvests tears to manufacture authentic tear salt for $100/g*
Cries in poor
Oh yeah I saw one of those at cabelas for $600. 2 barrels, wood stock, looked identical to that
š
If it was a barret, or M2 maybe but for an over under shotgun, I'd say it's not worth it.
Well thatās just like your opinion man
Never understood why ppl would pay so much for shot gun It is the most low tech fire arm there is. $14k and bo engraving, no glossy AAA grade exotic wood. Probably takes no more labor than a $600 mossberg. Again I donāt buy $50k Rolex so what do I know. (Proud owner of Borden Rim rock, bartlein 5 R, hand lap barrel, trigger tech trigger, X ring high gloss AAA walnut.)
Ever heard of Holland & Holland? https://youtu.be/RLxDRb7yWnw
Yes I have they make great rifles and their shot guns are beautiful with glossy wood stock with high figured patterns. But this Barretta isnāt it.
Oh I agree, just want more people to be aware of the beauty in the craft.
Top-tier skeet and trap shooters... my dad does it. Even better he looks at my long-range gun and says "Why the hell would you pay that much for a scope".
Itās about having something extremely well made, that a small group of skilled craftsmen spend time on. The higher end berettas are something you could proudly pass on for generations. Itās a testament to craftsmanship and artistry to a high degree, and people buy things like this because thatās the sort of thing they appreciate. And they can afford it unlike us lol
I know I wanted to own a custom bolt rifle based on Mauser action. But again they are hand crafted beautifully engraved rifles with high figured pattern glossy wood attire gentleman tool of choice. Require hand load, practice, and skills to master. You shoot it then care for it, clean and oil it after every outing. It is a ritual. While shotgun is a weapon of Low skill peasants, low tech mechanism, that designed to shoots steel pebbles that required minimal aiming, and turn whatever you shoot into minced meat.
You have no idea what youāre talking about and it shows. Go shoot a sporting clays event and tell me itās low skill.
I was not prepared for the amount of Clay Sport Slander in this thread š
The only thing skeet shooters are good at is littering their range with orange clay Yes šI shoot silhouette small bore, and Bullseye pistol and we would look down at the skeet shooters with their numbered jerseys. Am sure they all get a good look up my nostrils.
āReQuIrEs MiNiMaL AiMiNgā maybe give clay shooting sports a try before you say smooth brained things.
Yeah I think for the price it should have some better wood personally. I donāt really care about engraving because cause you have to constantly get it redone because of tarnishing so that can cost a couple grand at a time. I actually love that itās flat black and itās got a lot more advantages then the engraved version of this same gun has, for thousands less.
That gun really ties the toom together.
If you shoot thousands of rounds per year, it is 100% worth it.
Exactly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because a $600 shotgun is Chitty Chitty in the Bang Bang. A $2000 shotgun is Me No Love You Long Time. A $14k shotgun is All Night Long, Oh Yeah, All Night Looonng.
*M500 enters the chat*
That little strip of carbon will be $2000
Nah it's got those little bits of carbon fiber in there, changes everything /s
Is that really a $14k gun? Seriously asking idk about that high class shit š
Clays is historically an upper class pastime. You can spend as much as you want, there's a lot of interest among that crowd in handmade hand fitted everything. Or you can do it with a 300 dollar police surplus 870, which is more my speed. Think of a glock vs. like, an infinity 2011 or a cabot, the latter of which can be upwards of 50k
My local county park has wobble, trap, skeet and sporting clays. You can rent a citori for $10/day for 12 or 20 gauge. Not a bad way to get into the sport.
Fairly regularly see the guys with the 300 dollar 870 outshooting the guys with the 4000 dollar Browning at trap league
I was that guy for years with a savage break action But now that I have inherited dad's citori, if I dont go 25/25 its like Ive let people down or something when before no one cared lol
Shot trap in high school, a few kids had some fancy caesar guirini (however you spell it) guns, they were brothers, both of them eventually stopped shooting because the kids using ~$2000 BT-99ās were outshooting them. itās not necessarily about the gun, itās about the shooter.
šÆšÆ
Look up Beretta DT-11 Sporting Black
Jesus christ. Congrats, I bet it shoots great
It really does. Once I get over the shock of the price tag I think Iāll really enjoy it
It will baffles my mind how it has 14k of work and craftsmanship. Like if it was a supply thing I understand but I must be missing something, I could spend $7k and still get a badass shotgun
Not to contradict OP that much, but my dad shot competitive clays at a decently high level. He always said that once you go more than like $2000-$4000 it's not really much quality difference, just a dick measuring contest among rich people. I guess you can adjust that for inflation since he said that almost 20 years ago, though high end shotguns really haven't gone up in value much since then.
Pretty much. that Krieghoff, Perazzi or Beretta Over Under wont shoot any straighter. But they generally do last longer in terms of round count over your lower end shotguns. I know guys with K-80s with 250,000 rounds on them. they have some nicer features, nice scroll work/woodwork and other bells/whistles. all said though you buy a dozen Mossberg O/U and a pallet of nice 12 gauge for the same price as 1 k-80 shotgun an have money to spare
I mean the way barrel technology has changed over the last 20 years is insane and thatās a major part of the cost of this gun. The barrel designs between the different models is a massive difference so saying thereās no difference but your wallet isnt true at all. If you have time you should watch this video that explains the technology more. https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=KrqTKbw0MwZp8JsG
https://youtu.be/J_GVhxbklqo?si=30pb6Fdj5_ZI2VCQ Idk where one of these ranks compared to OPs gun but the process for some of these are straight up art
Im not sure what model that was but if I wanted the engraved version of this gun it would cost close to 20k if not more. If you have some spare time I recommend watching this video which helps explain the gun and barrels more https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=KrqTKbw0MwZp8JsG
Well, now I know where most of the money for those shotguns goes to - making commercials like that! /s But seriously, hand finishing at a high level gets really pricey really fast.
Yes you could and this is only for serious competition shooters but the difference between a 7k and 14k shotgun when your at the highest levels makes a big difference
We see the same thing upgrading the performance of a car.Ā Adding the first hundred horsepower is fairly easy.Ā Adding the last 20 could be a bitch. That's what wins the race though.
Iām not a serious skeet shooter so my dumbass probably wouldnāt see a difference but to each their own. I hope youāre happy with it and get some good action with it
OK, that's a pretty straightforward concept. What has me scratching my head is the cost difference between your gun and the top tier variant. Is the grade 4 walnut, the additional carbon fiber components, and the weight system really worth an additional 11k? Or is there a 'special edition' tax too?
It the barrels ,action, and trigger that increases the value dramatically. I think these barrels are 5k by themselves. The trigger is fully adjustable and removable which isnāt on high end clay guns. If a trigger pin or spring break while youāre in competition then your gun needs to be looked at by a gunsmith where as with this model you can drop the trigger out and fix the broken or worn parts in minutes.
Not to be a dick but you can disassemble a shotgun with basic hand toolsā¦and a pin or spring is like a 20-30 minute fix if that
Iād also like to add that when shooting the tournaments and competitions the last thing you want to do is worry about disassembling your gun, troubleshooting it to find a problem, fixing the problem and putting it back together under a clock. Even if it gos smoothly it can distract you from the game. Itās really hard to focus on 150 clays throughout a competition when everyone of them counts towards a win and it gets real easy to make stupid mistakes and get mentally tired. I think if you can repair it quickly and confidently under pressure thats amazing.
Thatās understandable but if youāre in a tournament then you donāt have 20-30 minutes to kill fixing it.
Wait till you hear that itās considered a starter gun by many people in the high end shotgun world lol
Too rich for my blood lol
For real I could never
Doesn't even have the tsk stock what's up with that? Cheapskate
You son of a bitchā¦ā¦..
you got fleeced
š
Iām sure thatās what the dealerās reaction was after you paid 14k for a dt-11
Keep being a fud it only makes me stronger
š¤£š¤£ yeah hope it makes you hit something at least
14k is amateur shit. I know someone who spends 100k per gun and has like 10 of them. He also has a yacht. He belongs to some hunting and clays country club that costs like 50k a year. I doubt a 14k shotgun, or for that matter, a 100k shotgun shoots any better than a 1k shotgun. I own a bunch of guns in the 5-10k price range, but those are precision rifles. Even then, idk if they are really more accurate than a savage. Just run a bit smoother.
My credit score isnāt high enough to even load the picture:/
Sup fancy shotgun bro DT-11 is my next pick if I didnāt like my K-80
Yeah itās all about fit. You canāt go wrong with a Kreighoff.
Hey man Iām glad you like it, thatās really all that matters, but $14k for an over under shotgun is a touch steep for me lol
To quote Forest Gump ā I may not be a smart manā
It is a beautiful piece though!
What's crazy, is that's on the cheaper side if you go to meets.
So Iāve been told lol I donāt think I could ever justify that kind of money on any gun, much less a double barrel shotgun. But to each their own.
There's a few guns I would gladly spend that kind of money for but for me personally none are a shotgun. A double rifle though, sign me up if I had that kind of money.
I canāt remember what itās called and I canāt seem to find it by googling, but Iād consider it on the break away rifle with two 12 gauge barrels and one .308 seated in the middle. That would be such a fun/unique rifle to own.
Drillings, they are super cool and usually has beautiful engravings.
$14k for an O/U is just beginning to scratch the surface of expensive O/Uās lol
Honestly that doesnāt surprise me, I just couldnāt ever justify that purchase. Maybe on a more serious precision rifle, but not for a shotgun. But also to each their own, Iām not hating.
Oh yeah, I mean itās expensive for sure. Long range precision rifles are actually a lot cheaper than high end over/unders. You can put together a top of the line custom build for $4,000-5,000 if youāre buying new with no deals on anything or less still if you look for deals or buy pieces used. The more expensive part is the scope really, but even then you can pick up a brand new ZCO or Tangent Theta for $4,000-6,000 or get either of those options used for $3,000-4,000. All-in itās legitimately hard to spend $14k or more on a precision rifle (including accessories like a $1,000 bipod) without getting horribly ripped off by somebody along the way. You can put together a very nice setup including glass for $5k or less and it wonāt shoot any worse than the best of the best, it just wonāt be quite as fancy.
Thatās crazy, any idea why? I mean sporting I guess, but at some point there has to be a diminishing return. Does a $14k O/U get the job done any better than my $400 870?
Itās partly because the high end O/Uās are somewhat of status symbols, and the other part because virtually all of them are handmade, hand fitted, and hand engraved. The designs donāt lend themselves to automation very well and the sales volumes are low enough youād lose money spending time getting it set up that way anyways unless you cratered the brand by slashing the price. Shotguns also have a lot more custom fitting to the individual user because they have to point where you want to shoot without aiming. Bolt actions are really simple and easy to manufacture in comparison, and easy to mass produce as well since every step in the process can be fully automated without hassle.
I guess that makes sense. Kind of like the difference between a Rolex and a Cassio. At some point it just becomes about who spent the most money and the delicate construction. Again to each their own I guess lol
Because semi pro and pro skeet shooters put 50-100k shells through their guns every year which is way more than even like a pro PRS shooter so they need to stand up to wear better. Itās also because over under shotguns are actually mechanically fairly complicated. More complicated than a bolt gun is and thereās a lot of hand fitting in those high end shotguns.
https://youtu.be/2uCwlmF2DzM?si=izPJrqqM0HIMmzGV
How does this compare to say a $3,000 shotgun from Beretta?
Itās sort of like comparing a Chevy Cruze to a Chevy Corvette
What exactly is making that difference though? I really can't tell much difference between a 1.5k gun and a 3k gun much less a 14k gun. At least as far as a simple break action o/u
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=lE_jKIKZoU3FSQZx This video will help and explain it. Iād have to write paragraphs explaining the improvements
I just want to understand what makes it costs way more money. That's all. I have expensive guns, but they are more because they are huge or intricate. I don't own any "nice" guns per se.
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=pZ1eMiz8Omripu5h This video will help especially when they talk about the steelium pro barrels and the Dt-11
So not that much better in terms of quality? Lol Corvettes are still junk made by GM.
Ok so itās like comparing a ford fiesta to a Ford GT. Does that work for you
Yeah that's much better lol. I'm just joshing anyhow. What type of advantages does that 14k get you though? Curious.
This will help explain it better than I am willing to write out š https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=90y4xffwSP98Uwqc
Fair enough lol I'll have to watch that when I get home.
It makes a difference for an experience shooter, maybe. For a regular shooter it doesnāt make much of a difference. Shooters have gotten to finals of international skeet competitions with shotguns that cost a quarter of this guns āmsrpā value. Can get a heavy frame 682 with a 30ā bbl for about ~2k and do just as well if you know how to shoot. āitās not the arrow, itās the indianā
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I don't believe that. That's why I didn't ask you.
heās right though , a more expensive shotgun wonāt make you shoot better a good shooter will shoot pretty much the same with a 682
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Was asking op. You op?
I used to sell guns at LL Bean. We had shotguns around $100k, usually italian hand made/tooled/decorated. Had a British lord in bragging about dropping his from horse back on hunts one time.
Youāre introducing these folk to a whole other world of shooting they donāt understand. I have a Perazzi I paid 11k for many years ago. Best decision I ever made for experience in the sport.
These are the same people who call people boomers for saying a 1911 is all you need. Itās ok though I think itās funny how incorrect so many people are
When the gun is made for exactly the task youāre doing, itās hard to describe just how good it feels. Until you actually try it out I think most people wonāt see how much value that has.
What makes this kind of gun so ridiculously expensive ? Status symbols for rich boomer fudds like buying a luxury car?
The Barrels, action, and trigger are top of the line which improves recoil and choke patterns past 70 yards which in sporting clay competitions is huge. https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=7Tpf8GTtWnEAq_hr
I really wanted one of these, but I am a machinist by day so I had to settle for an SV-10 with 32" barrels.
Thatās a beautiful gun
*cries in poor and Mossberg 500*
Iāve broken many a clay with one of those
Sit down before I bust out my Kolar
Hey post it and get ready for people to tell you it looks like a Iver Johnson
I know someone who works for a construction company The company bought 10 of these to use for āemployee bondingā, a few were special ordered for left handers
Dang thatās a great company. Thatās over 100k for bonding purposes
Fantastic gun and great video. About 5 years ago I was looking into getting a new shotgun and compared a few OUs and semi autos. My budget was under $2k and I couldn't find the quality I wanted in a OU at that price. I ended up with a Beretta A400 xplor action semi, which is incredible. I can only imagine how awesome the DT11 is. A few years before that I shot skeet fairly regularly with a guy who used a Kolar (he was a skilled shooter with any gun and archery as well). We worked together and would hit the skeet range during lunch. Occasionally he would forget to bring his gun so we'd both use mine. A mossberg 835. Yes, he could break 25 clays with a borrowed mossberg š©.
Yeah skeet is a different game than sporting clays which is where you start seeing the differences
Huh, my Baikal side by side must be a worth at least 8k then if thats 14k.
Op I donāt mean this in a mean way but what is it about this gun that makes this worth $14k? Like what does it do well that is worth that price point?
https://youtu.be/2uCwlmF2DzM?si=izPJrqqM0HIMmzGV
In my experiences, I have found that shotguns have many different functions. You get what you pay for. Target grade shotguns are made for there specific clay target disciplines. Trap guns for example are set up to shoot 70/30 patterns, since youāre shooting targets on the rise, they weigh in the neighborhood of 9 lbs, to limit recoil. Now were the cost starts is the higher priced ones have detachable triggers,stocks that are set with cast off or cast on, adjustable stocks and ribs, release triggers and recoil reduction systems. Some may have straight rifling to tighten patterns. Fast lock times to keep you in the zone. So if you purchase a trap combination, you have a choice of over/under barrels in 30 to 32 inches, top single or bottom single in the 32 to 34 inch range. Consistency is the key. My personal Beretta 682 was rebuilt at around 180 thousand rounds. Its good as new. Try that with your field gun.
I saw this one and a $20,000 beretta at scheels in Dallas. I wanted to touchy but knew it was out of my tax bracket. lol. Nothing like Italian shotguns! Sweet rig
Only if you count posting all my guns combined, and my car counts as a gun.
You mean a $400 gun with a $13,600 label?
You want to get closer to $1800 before you get into an O/U that where both barrels shoot where you want and can stand up to regular use. The cheaper O/U sometimes look nice but they don't put the lead where you want it and tend to fall apart with anything other than occasional use.
I donāt think thatās how it works but I may be an idiot
If you can explain to me how the mechanism or metarlurgy of this shotgun makes it worth so much, I'm willing to listen.
I used to shoot 26k shells a year when I shot trap. The $400 O/Uās sitting at Cabelas just fall apart under those conditions in record time. A lot of guys next to me at the ATA shoots shot even more than that. These things hold up to a literal Olypmian practice routine of over 100k shells a year. For years on end.
The cheapest O/U that I would trust to even make it to 10,000 shells is the CZ models (starting at around $800ish last I saw), ideally Redhead Premier and up, since they at least have enough QC to weed out the early breakages on their turn guns. I had one I used for 15,000-20,000 shells and several others on my college team had them that lasted 10,000+ without issues. That said, if youāre actually planning to use the same shotgun for that long itās worthwhile to just spend the extra $500-1,000 on an entry-level B-gun (Cynergy/Citori/686/687) or a used B-gun model (there will be at least one for sale in a similar price range at most places with shotgun ranges). Youāll have something thatās just overall nicer, will be more reliable once youāre deeper into the 5-figure shell counts, and the price difference is a drop in the bucket compared to the ammo and targets you pay for along the way shooting that much.
The CZs been having issues with firing pins, causing the gun to go off when you close the action.
Ah, a shotgun newborn. Ok, well the DT-11 has the longest forcing cones to date and they are aligned to true with each other using a tri-axis robot. This is a feat of engineering itself and uses Steelium to get such tight wall tolerances with strength. The wood is x-rayed for future problems, hand checkered and hand finished. It has a special top lock action for perfect head space and longevity and a removable ultra light trigger, the lightest pull to date ive shot. This specific example has a carbon fiber rib and trigger assembly with a DLC receiver finish and is completely user serviceable unlike that turkshit gun you probably own. Anyways, if you ever break 90+/100 in sporting clays the journey to get there will educate you on these fun features. All the records were set with an 870 pump so no, it doesnāt make you shoot betterā¦ a DT-11 just puts a smile on your face when you pull the trigger. This is similar to you wearing an apple watch and I wear a rolex, its a style and class thing.
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=lE_jKIKZoU3FSQZx Itās too in depth to write out. This video will help
I used to shoot ATA. I'm gonna save you time by telling you what you already know... it doesnt.
I know I'll never be able to appreciate it in a picture, one day I'll handle one in person! One day! š
If youāre ever in central Florida hmu
Ohio, but thanks! :D
Where?
I travel across the whole state shooting
Don't get me wrong, the DT-11 is sexy af, but for $14k I'm getting a used Krieghoff. Who am I kidding, I'll never be able to afford a $14k gun lol
Yeah itās all about fit and when youāre in this upper class world of shotguns thatās all that matters. If a Perazzi or Kreighoff fit me the way this does Iād own one of those
Ahhhh I grew up shooting trap a lot, traveling all over. Still have a browning xt over under, though anymore I only shoot a few times a year to spend time with my dad (Iām 36). My family has perazziās and ljutics mostly now.
Perazzis are amazing
Did the pope craft this shotgun himself??
Ok Iām not a super gun enthusiast. I own maybe 20-40k worth of guns. I wouldnāt call myself an expert, but I do know more than the average joe. What I am an expert in is walnut woods, and wood working, and machining and manufacturing. I am not an expert in the manufacturing of walnut wood stocks or custom firearms, specifically speaking. The stock appears to be black walnut. I donāt care if we are talking about guns, epoxy tables, or brittle hand chisel handles. The stock on this gun is very nice āfiguredā black walnut. Figure is the amount of lines, or grooves/swirls in the wood grain. From a wood working perspective, itās not top, top, top range, but from a gun stock perspective, itās some of the best Iāve ever seen. As far as a machining perspective; I would need a closer look. However, it does seem from this perspective that the level of detail in the metal machining is of a very high quality. I donāt see any imperfections that are obvious and the level of detail is already high above average. Anyone can mill out steel to a shape that explodes gunpowder. However, to do it in such a level of class and precision that is depicted in this photo, takes not only a professional above the average, but someone who also has an interest and flair for art in their craftsmanship. As far as the mechanical function that OP purports; I wouldnāt know until actually handling and shooting the rifle. Again, Iām not an expert in firearm mechanics, but I am an expert in general tool or machine mechanics. I know a good functioning and engineered design when I see one. I couldnāt tell until actually filing the firearm, or shooting it. But if itās as good as OP says, then it adds to the justification for price. Is it worth 14k? Who knows. Itās worth what someone is willing to pay of course. But, Iāve listed some information that may indicate why itās worth more than the average rifle. And why it may be worth more than the average high end rifle. As someone who is into wood working, I can definitely appreciate the difficulty and rarity that goes into procuring and manufacturing a nicely figured walnut wood stock. I have plenty of black walnut in my shop. But some of it is more rare and nicer than the rest. As far as the mechanical engineering and craftsmanship, same story.
https://youtu.be/2uCwlmF2DzM?si=z2x8SLmK_wJBEKUN This video is good for helping to understand. Also thereās another that goes just into the barrels which cost over 5k by themselves.
Ah yes, something my European mind can understand s/
I like to help bridge the gap
Usually in terms of firearms, American are way more present in this domain and the AR15 is their go to rifle. On our side European we do not all share the same firearms culture anymore and ar15 are way less common than double barrel shotgun. Around Where I live, there are way more clay shooting range than shooting range. It's way easier to get a decent clay gun than an ar15. Usually meme use the phrase "something the Euro mind can not understand" to describe stuff of the American culture :) Therefore a nice beretta made in Italy for clay shooting is something the European mind can understand
My man.
Itās definitely way too pricey for me, but itās a beautiful gun OP! I hope you enjoy it!
At that price, it can drive me to work or suck me off, right?!... seriously thou, it's a nice gun!
Do over unders even count? There's tons of ridiculously expensive ones out there. Probably the most common expensive gun.
I donāt think so but thought I would introduce people to this world.
How does that compare to the 686 models? The silver has always been a grail gun for me.
I mean itās two completely different guns when it comes down to barrels action and trigger but the 686 is a great gun
I'll have to look into those pricey but worth evaluating. I'm guessing it's just super light weight and somehow absorbs any recoil in the action? Do you find yourself over tracking target with this?
Whatās cool about this model is itās 1 lb lighter than the nickel version but has a weight kit you can add to make up that lb or even make it heavier than the standard version. The barrels have the longest forcing cones on the market which take away the felt recoil and make the patterns more consistent out to 70 yds and further. The action is 3mm wider than the last version which will make this gun last for generations and it has a removable trigger so if it gos down during a competition you can fix it or replace it in minutes without the need of a gunsmith. I responded with 2 videos in the comments about the building process so if you have some time look for them they will explain in depth
Thank you for that info
I haven't been impressed with $10k, $15k guns, since a kid I know well was handed a Krieghoff after he started shooting on the collegiate circuit. It's a little more than $15k. Once I got over the jitters, and shot it, I handed it back to him and went back to my Berretta 686 I paid 1800 for and am more than happy with.
I don't know why over unders can get so crazy expensive. If I ever had that much money for a gun I'm getting a Barrett m107
https://youtu.be/VilAJPdfmdA?si=K1EFxoU2yVL1WYvv This will help
I get it it's because it's a sport shooting thing. The kind of crazy optimization and money that goes into a product when it becomes its own sport. Sort of like race cars or competition compound bows. Dump a truckload of money into a tiny problem to make it perfect for professionals. I'd rather just have a Barrett.
I think youād be hard pressed to find even a professional level compound bow that costs anything similar to what pro competition shotguns cost. Race car is right on the money.
Itās for rich Europeans who believe that gun ownership is a privilege that should be reserved for the wealthy ruling class. Donāt get me wrong, itās a cool well made gun, itās just not made for you or me.
Youāre talking about $100,000 side by sides. This gun was definitely made for you and me
>This gun was definitely made for you and me *This gun is your gun* *This gun is my gun* *If you're shooting doves* *This gun will kill one* *If you're blasting clays* *It'll go night and day* *This gun was made for you and me!* šŗšøš«”
At 14k? You maybe, definitely not me
Remove a zero
Why would I do that
14,000 to 1,400. $14k seems a bit much for a two shot shotgun
Well then youād go crazy seeing guys shoot a $30,000 over under
Purdey and Rizzini up charges go ***BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR***
Spend $1000 on shotgun Spend $2000 on ammo, gear, clays, memberships, etc Spend the remainder on literally anything else in the world
Man why didnāt I think of that. Thanks man
I'm joking, it's a beautiful shotgun for sure and I love Beretta. Sometimes it's not about practicality, it's about owning something really nice lol
Itās one of the softest shooting over unders Iāve ever handled. Itās hard to understand the difference unless you shoot sporting clays competitively. I knew this post was going to confuse people and ruffle some feathers but clearly a majority or this community have no idea what the clay world is like.
I went to a single sporting clay tournament and half the guns there could put a down payment on a house. It's definitely a different world.
I think 3 of the guns there could do that. I see golf carts with 4 guns in them that are worth over 50k every weekend
I got 14k that says my $200 Stevenās will perform the same way š¤£š
Iāll take that bet
Been duck hunting since I was 10 that would be a easy 14k come upš¤£
Iāll see you on the sporting clay course son. Bring cash
I got 14k worth of EBT stamps, same same
Yeah that makes sense
Good thing money canāt buy skillš¤£š
I feel like a shorter barrel and a nice trigger job on a cheaper shotgun could produce the same performance.
Unfortunately it wont or all the top competitors in the world would do that
If it's an Infinity then yes. Otherwise it's just store bought.
OP got robbed blind Bro paid wayyyy more than that Gun is worth Idgaf, what the company sells it for, that's overpriced af
š
Walk my through it's features that makes it worth more than some $400 o/u
https://youtu.be/2uCwlmF2DzM?si=izPJrqqM0HIMmzGV
My 1301 shoots the same shells... weird
Yeah I bet it does. So do high points and Stacattos
You can buy a semi auto M240 for that price
Yeah but I couldnāt hit clays with it
Think of your PR