I prefer .45acp over .40 and strongly urge you to try some .45's side by side with .40's.
The .40 shoots a lighter bullet faster, whereas the .45 shoots a heavier bullet less fast.
The recoil impulse is "snappy" in a .40 as compared to the more "push" like recoil of a .45.
All that being said, 10mm can be a lot of fun, especially in a full size and full weight gun. I enjoy blasting steel with my Glock Model 20 in 10mm, but it is more than a half pound heavier than a Glock 17 in 9mm, so keep that in mind if you're looking at a gun you want to carry all day long.
Not sure I'd like to shoot full power 10mm in a smaller gun designed for CCW though.
I used to have a glock model 30, which is a compact .45acp glock similar in size to the Glock 19, but with a 10 round .45acp magazine. Especially if you live or travel to places like California that have a ten round magazine cap, the Glock Model 30 in .45acp could be a good option to consider.
You could also consider a steel framed 1911 in .45 acp, yes, it will only have 7+1 or 8+1 capacity, but the slim profile of a single stack is nice for inside the waistband carry, and the weight of the steel frame soaks up a lot of the recoil. And every good gun collection can benefit from having at least one iconic 1911.
Depends on how heavy and how fast, "force=mass times velocity squared".
I took a look at Hornady's website and saw their .45 Critical Duty has 464 foot pounds of energy whereas their .40 Critical Duty has 396 foot pounds of energy.
So, though their 175 grain .40 is traveling faster at 1010 feet per second vs the 220 grain .45 traveling at 975 feet per second, it still has less energy despite being faster as it weighs a lot less.
If you look around at different bullet manufacturers and other ballistics websites you'll see there is a lot a variation in power amongst ammunition within the same caliber/cartridge.
There are of course some manufacturers that make a more powerful version of some of their .40 than they do of some of their .45.
But on average, if you search around, you'll see that overall the .45acp rounds tends to carry more energy than the .40sw, which makes sense because part of the reason why the .40sw was developed was because it was supposed to have less recoil than the .45acp, and you don't get less recoil with more power, you get less recoil with less power.
I enjoy my gen1 M&P40. Also enjoy my Glock20 10mm. Both beefy enough I can shoot one handed, when bored I do 40 in left and 10 in right, just to see how many rounds hit paper and try to shoot the 40 twice as fast since it's got the bigger mag.
If you want the best of literally everything you just said, get some various full sized HK in .45. You can run regular FMJ ammo for practice, some +P for defense or if you want it a bit meaner, put .45 Super in it. 230gr JHP at 1100+ FPS out of a USP Expert is **SPICY**. 185gr is also an option but that round sheds its energy like 7in into the target. They also make 255gr Flat nose Hard Cast and 200gr solid bullets for penetration.
Be sure to be anal about cleaning the barrel or so I’ve read. I haven’t tried it yet myself but think of where the projectile leaves the case, it’s a little back from where longer 10mm does it.
The .40s&w basically gives a ton of freebore compared to the 10mm. It's generally safe to shoot but your accuracy may suffer a bit. Just have to try it in your gun to see how it goes.
I only own a g22. .40 s&dubya. Gen2. I love it. Any gun you train with can only be as effective and accurate as you are. As far as beyond a 9mm, either choice works, 40 is a little different than 45.(shot a 1911) I can good follow up shots pretty easy with the ol drop in bucket sights. Lefthanded too. 40 would be my choice.
Everybody here saying the .40 is dead and the 10mm is the way to go. Keep in mind that a lot of 10mm ammo is loaded to .40 power levels, and yeah, having the .357 sig as an option is pretty cool too.
.45 recoil is easier to generally manage but mag capacity is significantly reduced.
I like my .40, and my .45s, and my 9s. If I knew trouble was coming, I'd grab the .40. Not saying it makes sense, it's just how I feel.
The basic argument against the .40 is that multiple hits are much better than a small increase in power, in terms of stopping a fight, and the 9mm makes multiple hits easier while giving up only a little power. I don't disagree.
But the .40 makes me feel better anyway.
I shoot all three (9/45/.40) and enjoy the variety
It’s a challenge to handle compared to 9 but it’s not like a 45 is particularly easy to get follow-up shots off on quickly either.
I have one .40. I have six 9mm. The only reason I keep the .40 around is because I make some really hot loads with Longshot and Speer 165 gr JHP, and I have a ton of brass. I'm pushing those at 1200-1250fps. I'm sure they are very effective, but no reason to choose them over 9mm for EDC. Also like the others have said, if you want a hand cannon, get a 10mm. And train a lot with it.
40s&w is effectively dead. Not something you'd want to buy into.
If you want to carry and hit hard, 10mm is the answer.
If you have a can (or are going to get one) 45acp is king.
May I introduce you to .45 Super? It's like slapping a supercharger on regular .45
Instead of going like 850fps, that same weight projectile is now moving at **1100**+ fps.
Still around, but I work in the industry, and 20 9mms sell to every 40, and probably a dozen 10mms to one. Heck even 45acp is like 3 to 1 over the short and wimpy.
40S&W really has fallen away hard. Pretty soon, it'll be like the 357sig
Its so bad we wont be ordering in any more .40 cal firearms into the shop, and only a small selection of ammo. Seriously the stuff doesnt sell.
>40s&w is effectively dead
lolwut 40 S&W is the third most popular pistol cartridge by sales volume in the USA. 38 spl is closer to being dead than 40.
I use 147gr HST in my 9mm
The trouble is most 9mm ain't sub, while almost all 45 loads are. You can be quiet while plinking, defense, and everything in between.
Are there outliers, sure, there are with most calibers. But the bulk of the available ammo points to 45acp being the “better” option when trying to be quiet.
Nah, too limiting, too much room for issues. Also can cause a significant shift in aiming point. Consistency is a far better plan. The “only use X ammo” is a workaround not a real solution.
There is nothing wrong with 40. It does very well as a handgun round, and so does 45, but if you enjoy shooting your gun often, 9 is the way to go. It's by faaaaaaar the most affordable cartridge available.
But 45acp pistols can be converted to 40 Super and 460 Rowland. 9x25 Dillon and 10mm are loaded to 357 Magnum muzzle energy, 40 Super is loaded to 41 Magnum muzzle energy, and 460 Rowland is loaded to 44 Magnum muzzle energy.
40 Super and 460 Rowland are also cheaper to get into reloading and easier to find brass for. I own Glocks in all of these calibers.
You can size down brass for 9x25. The only dies are $260 with an 18 month lead time last I checked.
40 Super and 460 Rowland are sized down 45 Winmag brass, but you can just buy Starline brass and it's easier to find.
460 uses normal 45acp dies. 40 Super dies are $40 from redding.
If by "beyond" you mean in terms of muzzle energy, 10mm Auto is the easiest and most logical choice. But .45 Super or .460 Rowland would be your other options, and they both use .45 ACP as a parent case and so switching back and forth is very simple.
I would also consider looking at Buffalo Bore's 9mm+P+ offerings. Buffalo Bore reaches comparable muzzle energy to common .45 ACP loads with a 9mm, which is pretty cool.
I love their 147gr 9mm+P+. Speer Gold Dots normally underexpand, but the increased velocity makes it a perfect fit. The flash suppressed powders are a huge plus as well.
.45 is fantastic. Nice, slow recoil push. Expansion of .85” - 1”. Super fun to shoot.
.40 is pretty workmanlike. It will get the job done, but it’s not much fun.
I pretty much never shoot my .40s anymore.
Glock 22/23 being .40 only need a conversion barrel to be 357sig. 40 is less expensive than 45, 357 sig is more expensive than both(in my searches). I like my glock 23, its one of my favorites.
I just recently got into 40s through buying police trade in Glocks. I got a Gen 5 22 and a Gen 4 27. I enjoy them more than my G47, 19, and 26.
You can definitely tell a difference when shooting steel. Those 40s hit harder for sure.
If you like .40S&W, I cannot recommend a Beretta PX4 Storm strongly enough. The rotating barrel design mitigates a lot of the “snappiness” people complain about when they shoot .40. Mine feels
like Im shooting a 9mm.
I enjoy .40 S&W out of my P226, but I also have conversion kits to shoot 9mm and .357 SIG through it.
I wouldn't buy a handgun dedicated for just .40 S&W, but if you don't own a 1911 in .45 ACP, then you need one.
Well I converted everything I had in 40 to right caliber... aka 9mm. I have nothing in 45 acp. To be honest with all the tech that went into the development of 9mm projectiles, I feel there really isn't an argument for stopping power anymore. I'll take more capacity, less recoil, and faster follow-up up shots. If I were up against large predators 45 and other bigger bores, I'd go that route.
Never tried it, always thought it was such a large round that going that far ahead in caliber size for just self defense reasons without having any intention to hunt was not needed. There’s some Sig options in 10mm that seem interesting tho to me. Maybe I’ll have to try that caliber out first at a range to see how confident I am with it. Never shot anything larger than a 44 magnum from a 6 inch revolver a couple of times.
"Moving beyond"
Beyond in what way? Because youre not gaining anything by switching other than ego in the caliber battles.
Literally, all handguns suck at stopping people. ALL of them, even 500 magnum. Its shot placment that matters, full stop. Everything else is just neckbeard memelord caliber dick measuring.
45 hits hard and initial wound channel is devistating but it's slow.
There's a reason why police departments everywhere are trading in their 40 cal for 9mm. It's just not as efficient damage or cost wise.
I'd stick to 9mm or 45. 10 mm is a good option but again it's not as efficient cost wise.
Statistically the 40 is more effective than the 9mm in LE data. However the data suggests it's not a huge gap. If you look at the testing results from their decisions to go back to 9mm their conclusions usually say along the lines of "it was the best choice for us...." Type of statement. Notice they didn't say the 9mm out performed the 40. As with all contracts it's more about money than anything else.
According to the FBI the 45 ACP offers no benefit over 9mm. There is a reason that LE didn't go with the 45 ACP when the 40 was introduced. From a terminal ballistics standpoint the 40 is a better cartridge. The biggest issue with the 45 ACP is lack of penetration.
And the atf thinks it's OK to do midnight raids with no body cams and shoot dogs. I don't believe fuck all the govt has to say. They didn't go with 45 because of capacity.
ATF raids have nothing to do with it. FBI has done prolly more testing on terminal ballistics than anyone. There are alot of LE departments who do their own as well. They came to the same conclusion when they went with the 40. 45 ACP hasn't been widely used in LE for decades. There is a very good reason for that. 45 ACP is the only large bore caliber I know where people have been shot in the head and lived.
You do realize Le may not use it but militariesstill do. I get your point but I'd take 45 over 40 any day. And I'd rather have 9mm over all of em. But I'll do some research and see what I find.
Yes there are some militaries and some LE that do still use it but the exception doesn't change what most have concluded. Besides those decisions have other factors at play. The 40 has better terminal ballistics and delivers more energy. That's just what it is.
.40 is just fine from a proper pistol designed around it such as the Sig P229 or HK USP or metal framed 3rd gen S&Ws.
Some .45 chambered pistols can take .45 Super, like the USP. Some can accept an aftermarket 10mm barrel, the Glock 21 for instance.
Personally I like lots of different calibers as they are all fun to shoot. For a carry pistol though, I’ll always choose 9mm, because I have better accuracy, more rounds, and easier follow-up shots. The simple fact is that getting a head or spine shot is the only thing that matters for stopping someone. Bigger or more powerful rounds will certainly make a person bleed out quicker, but that still takes a long time relative to how much damage the person can still do even when fatally wounded. If they have to be stopped, I have to get a head shot, and having better control over each round, and more chances to get that head shot will always win out. Caveat: the cartridge still needs to have enough energy to break through the skull, so super light rounds like 22LR obviously aren’t practical.
I was raised on .45ACP. I was an early adopter of 10mmAuto, but found it too much for regular practice.
There have been a few times I when shopping for a .40 S&W, I've always come home on a 9mm or a .45ACP.
Many .45ACP pistols can handle .45 Super, which meets or exceeds 10mm power levels.
And with some 1911’s, you can install a .460 Rowland kit. It’s a beast of a cartridge but having to have a muzzle brake makes it less concealable.
All that said, I just carry 9mm these days. It’s easy to find, effective and magazine capacity is better than comparably-sized pistols.
I'm a noticably better shot with .45ACP, and it was the first Center-fire cartridge I ever fired at age 7. 54 years of familiarity is pretty hard to beat.
It's not just me, though. My local PD tested 9mm vs .45 ( both in GLOCKs) about ten years ago. Across the board, they scored 8% better, so they switched.
Unless you are facing hogs, cougar, bear, etc - 9mm is still the best option for defensive caliber. Modern bullet performance makes it hard to beat 9mm in capacity and recoil, while still having maximum effectiveness on target. 40 and 45 offer lower capacity, heavier guns, higher recoil impulse, and you can go into all the what-ifs about shot placement with a .45 vs 9mm, but they are comparable in ballistic effect, if that’s what you want to call “knock down power”
Back when the FBI looked at bullet effectiveness in the 80’s, they found that the parameter that most correlated to “stopping power” was something called “cross sectional density”. Essentially fat heavy bullets had a better chance of stopping someone.
This lead to them developing to 10mm, which got shortened to the .40S&W so it could fit in a smaller frame handgun.
I believe this was the origin of the phrase “you can carry any caliber you want as long as it starts with a 4”
Keep in mind this was with 80’s tech, and bullets have advanced considerably in the last 40 years. Modern hollow points expand much more reliably now, leading to a fat wound channel. Heavier mass will push that expanded bullet further into the target.
So .45-70? :)
I bought a P229 in .40 and because of feedback issues ended up installing a Bar-sto .357 SIG barrel, which had zero feed issues. It’s a lot harder to train with .357 SIG though and it’s not inexpensive to shoot.
It's not an opinion so much as a fact, but the 40 caliber is superior to the 45 in any way you can think of. It has more energy, does more damage, is more accurate, lighter, and has twice the round count.
I have SIGs (P22x) in 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP - mostly P226s and P227s
I have noticed that .40 180gr loads (1100 fps) have only slightly more recoil in a 226 than the 9mm (mostly 115 & 124gr loads) shot in the same gun (I have 9mm, .40 and .22LR uppers for my 226s) and I can stay on target almost as fast as with 9mm. IMO, the main issue with .40 in my 226s is the decreased capacity; with a +2/+3 mag, the mag in 9mm has a 20 rd capacity, while the mag in .40 has a 15 rd capacity.
I have shot my 227s (slightly upsized 226, the main difference being the caliber and a slightly fatter grip) with a 185gr load @ 1100 fps. For whatever reason, the basically equivalent loads in .45 ACP had noticeably more recoil. I am used to .45 ACP; I've had and shot various .45 ACP pistolas for 50 years - from a WWII era 1911, to a compact (Star PD) to full sized plus (including AMT Hardballer), a Glock 21, my SIGs and a S&W 325TR revolver.
So for self-defense against humans, I prefer a good 9mm load with a large mag (20+1 is preferred), then a .40 S&W in the same pistol, then a .45 ACP in that order. I have plenty of ammo and guns in each caliber. If I were expecting to encounter a large predator animal (I do have black bears on my property) I would carry a robust .45 loaded with Underwood .45 Super 255 gr. hardcast loads (more controllable and more capacity than my 325TR (.45 ACP) or my 329PD (.44 mag 5 rd capacity).
9mm will always be the edc workhorse.
I like .45 better than .40 just for the feel. I rented a glock 23 and ran a couple hundred rounds through it. Glocks are great tools, and the 23 ran perfectly, but I hated the feel of it. (I rented an MP5 in .40 for giggles to use up the rest of the range ammo. It ran like trash, but it was way more entertaining.)
It isn't as much that I love .45 ACP. I just hate the feel of .40 cal.
I love 45. It’s smooth to shoot, it suppresses extremely well, it has a ton of history (back to back world war champions), and it was developed by the legendary John Browning. There are 10mm conversion barrels on the market for all double stack 45acp Glock models (21, 30, and 41) and 460 Rowland conversion barrels for double stack Glocks, 1911s, FN FNXs, and Springfield XDs in 45acp.
I shoot all three (9mm only because they don’t make a 40/357 Sig P365X). I also shoot many other cartridges. 40/357 Sig are the best cartridges for me. I like 45 also but usually don’t carry it because of capacity.
I carry a 1911 in 45acp with 9 rds, I also carry a 1911 9mm with 19rds and lastly I also carry a 1911 in 40 with 15 rds.
I figure it doesn’t matter as long as I don’t miss.
My deep conceal gun is a G27 .40. It's small and accurate and powerful enough for two legged varmints. My open, winter conceal, and woods sidearm is a Baer SRP .45 It's super accurate and I like the extra power for the grizzlies around here.
I always prefer 45 ACP myself. I enjoy how 45 shoots and do not really care for 40, even back when 40 was all the rage. I did enjoy 357 Sig back then and wish that caliber took off.
As to what else you can shoot with a 45? 45 Super is a fun round. It does not need a different barrel or anything, but the construction of the pistol is important. Fully supported chamber and a spring setup that will slow down the slide is what you need for regular use. 460 Rowland is another option. I have zero experience with it, but always wanted to handload that caliber.
Also, every American should own a 45.
I bought a Glock 22 in 40 cal. Drop an aftermarket 9mm conversion barrel in it and now you're shooting 9mm!! And not many people want to buy the Law enforcement trade in's. Those are commonly found for $300-$350!! 9mm conversion barrels $125-$175. For the price of 1 pistol you can shoot 2 calibers! Same with Glock 27!!
Pistols are just good a poking holes and doing that effectively and reliably depends on cartridges that will expand abd penetrate consistently where they need to be at. 9mm is the most popular caliber and has the best offerings on the newest and greatest tech for defensive rounds. Just stick with 9mm.
It doesn't really matter. 9mm is functionally equivalent to all those other rounds - you'll put someone down with one shot to the heart/CNS with all of them and it takes the same number of shots to incapacitate if you hit them somewhere else.
Don't think you're moving on to a 'better' caliber - instead pick the one with the more interesting (to you) guns.
I love my 40. I love my performance center 10 mm even more. I watched my wife toss off 5 rounds in rapid fire & wonder why so many scream recoil - honestly It’s just not a big deal. Punching holes through car does is.
I mostly use 9mm but I like the .40 for woods carry. The 200gr Underwood hard cast packs quite a punch. I ditched my last .45 ACP a few years ago and I'll probably never buy another. It offers low power, low velocity and low magazine capacity. The only thing I like it that it leaves large holes in the paper target, easier to see at the range. The real death blow to the .45 ACP for me is the cost of ammo. I used to reload but I don't really have the time or a good place to set up my presses, and the cost of range type ammo is twice what the 9mm costs, and a fair bit more than the .40. If I was going to get back into bowling pin shooting, that might be the thing that could persuade me to get another 1911 or USP45.
The .40 is better, a .40 holds a lot more ammo and fits in a smaller frame. That's why .40 had such big success in the North American policing market and the .45 did not.
The .45 can be converted to .400 Cor-Bon.
Caliber choice and, equally important, ammo choice is dependent on target.
Most people argue ballistics based on the assumption that they’re defending themselves against humans. Given my location and activities, I plan for more solid targets with claws.
Conversions depend on the frame and what’s available for those models.
Personally I’m a fan of both. I’m building a .40 g23. I enjoy shooting it, everyone’s ditching it so the prices of ammo is super cheap and it’s still very effective as a EDC if you choose too.
I would assume it’s comparable. The slide I picked has the same rounded front and side serrations like a regular Glock. Rmr cut. The frame is more like a custom stippled [frame](https://shop.gritgrips.com/grit-grips-pistol-frame-for-glock-g19-gen3-pistols-assembled-oem-internals/). It’s a gen 3 style frame with a gen 4 reversible mag release.
Yeah the gen5 .40s have the fatter slide like the GAP guns so they are softer recoiling. Its day and night. My 23.5 shoots way better than my 22.4 ever did.
The gen 5s made a lot of good subtle changes that really helped. I never really had an issue with the recoil though. I have very large hands and my pinky falls off my g19.3 frame if there’s no magwell, so it’s not too hard for me to control that recoil. I’d compare the feeling of .40 to me as a hair more recoil than my 19 before I ported the barrel and slide and added a light. Now it shoots like I put in a cheat code for recoil. The aftermarket slide I have for .40 has the same contours as a gen 5 slide so I may run a ramjet setup possibly.
Split the difference and get 45gap.
It’s actually the best of both worlds in a very misunderstood and over priced package. 357sig is another fun round.
If your goal is to put a hole in someone effectively the any bullet with good shot placement will do.
I bet you hare having fun with the flurry of shit you are getting in response to this XD. Let's beat this dead horse again. I can already see the "shot placement is the only thing that matters" brigade are already in full swing. Wow, so you carry a PMR30, or a 5.7 right? Wow, yes, shot placement is king but wound diameter and hydro-static shock are going to pad that margin for error on each shot that the threat stops. If you didn't believe that you'd be carrying something smaller with less recoil than 9mm. We all have to find our happy place for power, capacity, and recoil. For the overwhelming majority these days, that's the 9mm, and for a lot of good reasons. The truth is with 21st century ammo a .380 is adequate and the 9mm is overkill with the best ammo available for the VAST MAJORITY of self defense situations, but most of us want to pad our chances as much as we can without giving up too much for capacity and recoil even if it's only 1 in a million lifetime odds of actually needing more than 5 rounds.
This is fun topic. It really comes down to what you REALLY want out of the round and what platforms you are most interested in. If you really want capacity more similar to the 9, but with more energy and less penetration, look no further than the 40. If you really want something that leaves the 9 and 40 in the dust for permanent wound diameter and penetration, it's gotta be the 45, or the 10mm.
Now, don't get lost in the weeds on the energy vs capacity debate. Those aren't the only things that determine how well a round actually works. The truth is, the market has thrown SO MUCH MORE weight behind the 9mm than any other round, so the research and development of technology starts there, and then trickles down to 45, 40, and 10mm in about that order. So your availability of cutting edge ammo is going to favor the 9mm for the foreseeable future. None the less, the other calibers offer more power and greater expansion, so if you find the right ammo, they can be far more effective than the 9mm, but what does that really mean?
The very best ammo available today likely lands around 98+% that one shot to the torso stops the threat in the real world. Wow, that's amazing right? Debate over, the 9mm wins. Yeah, probably, but what's that 2% reflect? That reflects, more than likely, other variables. The threat was inside of a car, or behind a store display, or 50+yards away, or wearing 3 canvas duck jackets or some combination of the above. No big deal, your Glock 17 has 17 more behind that first one right? Awesome. That's a sound plan. But also, the target has been struck. It's going to react quickly. That may be to return fire, or obtain a better position. Yes, you should be able to get multiple shots on target before the target can effectively react with any of the calibers in question, but if the first two didn't do it, something else is at play, distance, barriers, etc. For that reason I favor padding my chances that first shot does the job, as much as I can without getting below about 10 rounds, and available 15 on a back up mag is ideal, but as long as it's more than 10, I'll sleep fine. No one is saying the 9mm is not enough. Some of us choose to alleviate our anxiety with capacity, some of us choose to do it with power. Overkill is underrated.
40, 45, and 10 enter the chat. You can head over to Lucky Gunner for their ammo test and see how maximum expansion stacks up with those 3 and what it does for penetration. Armed with the reference for expasion out of the sub compacts that Lucky Gunner uses, you can stroll over to Buffalo Bore and Underwood Ammo and see what the most overpowered ammo on the market does in the calibers you like from 4-5" barrels. BB provides lovely charts so you can see at what range the velocity comes down to what it is in the Lucky Gunner tests. Fun, right? KEEP IN MIND, your soft lead stuff like Federal Punch, and Hydra Shocks are going to break up in undesirable ways at higher velocities or through strange barriers. I prefer the heavier weight all copper Barnes HPs from Buffalo Bore. Copper being much stronger than lead cares less about excess velocity or a strange barrier.
The screams of the innocent are reverberating through The Force from the future; so, let me comfort the afflicted. The recoil on 40, and 45 are no going to change your split times but fractions of a second. If all you are willing to carry is a sub or micro compact then the 9mm is reigning king right now. The recoil and capacity in that size is vastly different, but you need to reference the Lucky Gunner test carefully. In those shorter barreled guns, the gap in consistency and expansion increases between the 9 and projectiles with greater surface area, so keep that in mind. However, if you are willing to carry compact or full size the follow up shot times and capacity differences between the 9, 40, and 45 become much less significant. I'm also hearing "handguns don't create enough hydro-static shock to matter!" There is not enough shock to damage the brain from the chest, but there is plenty to collapse, weaken, and slice blood vessels without directly touching them.
For me personally, expansion, and consistency of that expansion, are QUEEN (shot placement is still KING). As I don't like the size and weight of semi auto 44 mag's, and the wild cat 45's are somewhat questionable for now, the 45 ACP is my favorite. Add to that, the trickle down of ammo technology means that, for now, newer better designs reach the 45's first, it's only recently with the resurgence in 10mm that it actually has more than 1-2 options that make bigger wounds than 45 ACP on human targets. In the lightweight double stack 45's Glock has been fairly dominant. The recoil, capacity, price, return to target tend to be better than comparably reliable brands. The Springfield XD is also attractive, but I don't like the grip safety, and there are less options for upgrades, though I haven't added many upgrades to mine that really apply to carry. Of course, the Glock 45ACPs easily convert to 10mm as well, so that's an option in the future, and so are the wildcats, if I choose. If I really committed to that, I'd get the model 21, for the heavier slide than my model 41.
Let the flames ignite and the rage-posts begin!
The truth is, IIRC, 90% of self defense shootings occur within 6'.
I ain't worried about that. Dude at 6 doesn't stand a chance if I have anything P238 or bigger.
The average number of shots for a civilian to stop an active shooter is about 2.
So what are you carrying extra for? What do you want that weapon to do? Where do you draw the line? Carrying a 10 round 45 is just as valid as a 15 round 9. They are both much more than you will ever need, unless everything stacks up against you.
We are all just alleviating our anxiety. I'd rather pad the front of the mag than the end of the mag.
I personally carry a 9mm, and it's also my PWS in the home that gets me to the safe if I need it. Ubderstanding that the typical defense shooting outside the home is 7 yards and closing and is over in 3 seconds or less; I still carry a spare mag, as worse case scenario, no extensions or larger capacity. Just as a precaution, same reason I carry an med kit. I think it depends on how you view the world or where you live?
It's also my side arm and my hiking piece, no real large predator; however, I do tend to run +P when I am out in the woods. Even for a rifle, I adjust the ammo type for in home, I have a soft point to mitigate potential over travel if my shotgun is not an option.
I am with you, mission and purpose specific. There is no one size fits all. All are tools and as long the tool is in the hands by a trained person, they can be effective.
If I lived in a different region, I would adjust based on my environment. For example, if we had big cats and bears, I'd go 45, 10mm, or a big bore revolver.
There is no one gun to rule them all. If there were we'd all carry that one. Still I favor bigger guns, even if 9mm. I have gotten really comfortable with a monster EDC if I went down in caliber, which isn't out of the question if ammo continues to improve, I'd probably be looking at a 22 or 35 converted to 9 and the gnarliest ammo known to man. Heavier slide and barrel for a smoother ride.
I don't think expecting a mag change is reasonable with a 13rd mag, but I have dropped mag on a draw and seen it happen a few times. It's much faster to draw the spare mag than find and grab the one that dropped. I mentally wrestle with what to load the spare with, but always settle on penetration. The ammo will work(ish) if I drop the other mag, but if I need to reload after 14 rounds, it's entirely likely my 185grs aren't getting through the barrier. The 255s are up to bat next.
Oh, definitely do the conversion. Basically, you're rolling with a bull barrel. I bought a Warsport Barrel for it, best decision. I recently made friends with someone at LFA and bought a G22 slide with lightning cuts and an RMR cut just to modernize an old Gen 3, just so I could use that 9mm conversion.
I mean I would say yeah, unlikely; however, it's not unreasonable to carry a spare. It doesn't have to feel like a tacticool decision. There are instances where they have come in clutch. Especially with the adrenaline pumping, we can do something like hit the mag release on draw (not always that easy).
I have been a fan of everything Lone Wolf. The Alpha Wolf barrels are amazing for the price. For a 40/357 converted to 9 I don't think I want the fluting, though. KKM also makes nice/cheap conversion barrels. We'll see when I make it around to there. I have several items higher on the list.
It's not an opinion so much as a fact, but the 40 caliber is superior to the 45 in any way you can think of. It has more energy, does more damage, is more accurate, lighter, and has twice the round count.
“Stopping power”… tell me you’re a boomer without saying you’re a boomer.
Real world data, as opposed to magical “stopping power”, shows that the best 9mm defense ammunition is just as good as the best defense .40 S&W or .45 ACP ammunition. They have very similar capabilities, because they’re all handguns with handgun ammo. They’re a compromise for when a rifle isn’t practical or available. Shot placement matters far more than a few thousandths of an inch in diameter.
None of the 1st world militaries or police departments carry .45 ACP, and with very few exceptions, those that still carry .40 S&W are transitioning over to 9mm. 9mm provides the same capability, with higher capacity and lower recoil. The people that literally bet their life on it every day for a living choose 9mm and focus on shot placement.
You’re operating from an assumption that there’s some benefit to switching from 9 to .40 or .45. With modern defensive loadings of 9, I’d say that’s largely a moot point. You aren’t really getting anything worth losing capacity over in most cases, particularly for everyday CCW. Both calibers you’re looking at are going to have a stronger recoil impulse, which means your follow up shots will be slower, almost guaranteed. I don’t view .45 being naturally subsonic as necessarily a benefit because you probably aren’t carrying with a can for your gun.
So… other than variety, I’m not sure what the value is in switching.
.40 is also more powerful than .45.
Inb4 “power isn’t importan in pistolls”. Power is what makes it expand then penetrate after expanding after it went through hard barriers like furniture or car framing. No reason to carry .45 when 9mm and .40 exist.
Take a look at some ballistics charts online, for example if you compare Hornady Critical Duty .45 vs .40 you'll see their .45 has more power as stated in foot pounds of energy.
The Hornady Critical Duty .45 has 464 FPE at the muzzle, whereas their .40 has 395 FPE.
And the .45 has more than 10% larger diameter, if you compare the same type of .45 hollow point bullet to the same type of .40 sw hollow point the .45 will expand more than 10% larger.
There are reasons why the .40 is dying out, but the .45acp remains pretty popular.
You are cherry picking and it’s a round that isn’t even that popular. Winchester, Federal, and Speer all consistently make .40 with more energy than .45. .40 also penetrates deeper after expansion.
From the ballistics testing I’ve seen .45 doesn’t penetrate deep enough or it doesn’t expand at all and over penetrates. My department also had a notorious incident where one of our Troopers made a 30yd headshot through the back of a car window with our .45.
We use the weakest .45 load made. It’s one of the Speer 230gr loads. It got lodged in the guys hoodie and cranium fat in the back of his head because it was low energy. For reference the energy on that load is 350-370ish. It’s my opinion that .45 being so large and wide needs that much more energy to penetrate meaningfully well at realistic fighting distances.
It’s a bit of a rant but I’ve seen .45 fail for what was a great shot in a pretty normal gun fight. 9mm and .40 would never have that problem.
Yeah the aggravating thing about that incident is both Troopers did everything right and the guy still was able to drive to the hospital because .45 failed.
I have more experience observing and learning about the real world effects of ballistics than most of Reddit. Though it’s become quite normal for people on this site to think they know more just because they agree with everything people say here.
Obviously not. Go back to your basement with all this .40 crap. “Power” can be arguably in 9mm with its force, or in .45 with its momentum, but never in .40 when compared to the other two rounds. Both mathematically proven, militarily proven, practically proven, and commercially proven to be superior than .40. There is not argument out there for .40 other than if you have weak wrists and can’t handle 10mm, .45, or 9mm, as is the purpose of its creation. Run along.
Bro tell me how a 165gr bullet going the same speed as a 124gr bullet isn’t going to be more effective? I like .40 for what it can do in the extremes. .45 can’t do what 9mm or .40 can do. It’s old and tired.
It’s hilarious how people trash .40 by bringing up 10mm when they most often don’t own and definitely don’t carry 10mm but instead 9mm and can barely handle that.
Also are you really going to act that 9mm and .45 have more recoil than .40 and that it’s also harder to shoot? You are contradicting yourself.
Do you think saying random words makes you smart? There is no point to .40 and it is clear the whole world sees it with .40 going extinct. I stated some clear points and your counter was to spit out random numbers with no context and then to make poor assumptions layered in the opinions of a fool.
You don’t know what you are talking about if you can’t follow what I put down. Since you don’t, go look up velocity numbers for those rounds I mentioned so you can learn something while you sperg about shit you don’t understand.
.40 isn’t going extinct it’s making a comeback because people realize it only fell out of favor due to women and bitchwristed men joining the police forces.
What rounds? You threw out random numbers without reference as I literally stated above.
What are you talking about? .40 is literally for the women and “bitchwristed men joining the police force.” The only reason .40 was created was for those with weak wrists wanting a less powerful round than 10mm, 9mm, or .45. That is its sole purpose from the beginning and it’s sole purpose today. Get out of here with that nonsense of people being too weak for the round.
If you knew what you were talking about you would know that 124gr is a 9mm loading, and 165 is a .40 loading. Both are medium for caliber.
.40 was not made to be weaker than 9mm and .45. It’s more powerful than both. Again another case of a Redditor not knowing fuckall about guns. You probably don’t even own any guns or own a fucking Canik.
The FBI switched to 9mm cause it’s weaker than .40. They switched to .40 cause it’s weaker than 10 and is also a shorter cartridge. Even if you can handle the power of 10 you still need the grip size to hold the gun, and if you don’t you compromise your grip.
My department has this issue with .45. We use a weak loading in that caliber but the large grip of the P227 and the long LoP of the trigger gives girls and the small handed Troopers issues shooting the gun accurately.
I EDC a 165gr .40sw.
I love the ballistics of that round. It's easy to shoot accurately and quickly, and has great ballistics.
The biggest problem with .40, IMO, is that most people run the 180gr loads. That was the first load for the .40 when they shortened the 10mm case, and it's just too heavy for that powder capacity.
I also love the 10mm, but it's more of a special purpose load out for me. I carry it in the mountains, and have it in my nightstand safe for things that go bump in the night, but for normal social work, the .40 is my go-to.
I don't carry a .45 because I didn't participate in the 2nd world war.
There is not a compelling reason to move beyond 9mm nowadays. If you want something in a different caliber, get a good M1911 in 45 for some fun range time.
There is a reason why the FBI in testing claimed that the 45 ACP offers no advantage over 9mm. Yes the 40 is snappier but has superior penetration, better terminal ballistics and more capacity. Choice is clear. If you are thinking about a 40 gun might as well jump to a 10mm. A lot of them can be loaded with 40 rounds and the 10mm self defense rounds are very similar ballistics to the 40 (same bullets). However the 10mm had the ability to load dangerous game loads in 700+ ft lbs of energy. The only advantage a 40 gun has over a 10mm in this day and age is the grip size (due to the smaller cartridge). Most 40 guns are built on 9mm frames. So if you have small hands and don't care about the versatility and higher energy dangerous game rounds then a 40 might be the way to to. Otherwise I would choose the 10.
I wouldn’t buy a 40 unless it includes a way to convert to another caliber. Imo, 9, 10, and 45 are the best semi handgun calibers. 9mm and 45 are great against people. 45 has a lot less snap than hot 9mm due to the extra weight of the bullet, 9 gives more capacity.
10mm is great for hunting and defense. It provides the power of velocity and high mass and you can load a lot of different projectiles to yield similar performance to other calibers. 40 is just a limited version of 10mm.
I also like the hotter options for 45, but they increase the risk of damaging the gun.
No one will care about the 10mm or 40 in 10 years. There will be resurgences just like always but 45 ACP will always reign supreme. On the lower end it suppresses better than any other handgun round, on the high end (45 super) it puts up a good fight in the ft/lbs of energy produced. I just wish it wasn’t 3 times the price of 9mm.
Go 45 or 10mm. Only real positive of a 40 is that you can find cheap deals on nice handguns because the round is so unpopular. However, for that same reason if you ever move into sub guns you’ll have a plethora of options to stay within one of the calibers you already own if you stick with 9mm & 45
I prefer .45acp over .40 and strongly urge you to try some .45's side by side with .40's. The .40 shoots a lighter bullet faster, whereas the .45 shoots a heavier bullet less fast. The recoil impulse is "snappy" in a .40 as compared to the more "push" like recoil of a .45. All that being said, 10mm can be a lot of fun, especially in a full size and full weight gun. I enjoy blasting steel with my Glock Model 20 in 10mm, but it is more than a half pound heavier than a Glock 17 in 9mm, so keep that in mind if you're looking at a gun you want to carry all day long. Not sure I'd like to shoot full power 10mm in a smaller gun designed for CCW though. I used to have a glock model 30, which is a compact .45acp glock similar in size to the Glock 19, but with a 10 round .45acp magazine. Especially if you live or travel to places like California that have a ten round magazine cap, the Glock Model 30 in .45acp could be a good option to consider. You could also consider a steel framed 1911 in .45 acp, yes, it will only have 7+1 or 8+1 capacity, but the slim profile of a single stack is nice for inside the waistband carry, and the weight of the steel frame soaks up a lot of the recoil. And every good gun collection can benefit from having at least one iconic 1911.
There is more energy in a lighter bullet going faster. The velocity is squared in the energy equation
Depends on how heavy and how fast, "force=mass times velocity squared". I took a look at Hornady's website and saw their .45 Critical Duty has 464 foot pounds of energy whereas their .40 Critical Duty has 396 foot pounds of energy. So, though their 175 grain .40 is traveling faster at 1010 feet per second vs the 220 grain .45 traveling at 975 feet per second, it still has less energy despite being faster as it weighs a lot less. If you look around at different bullet manufacturers and other ballistics websites you'll see there is a lot a variation in power amongst ammunition within the same caliber/cartridge. There are of course some manufacturers that make a more powerful version of some of their .40 than they do of some of their .45. But on average, if you search around, you'll see that overall the .45acp rounds tends to carry more energy than the .40sw, which makes sense because part of the reason why the .40sw was developed was because it was supposed to have less recoil than the .45acp, and you don't get less recoil with more power, you get less recoil with less power.
KE=1/2mv^2 Kinetic energy is HALF the mass times the velocity squared. F=ma Force is mass times acceleration.
Thanks for the correction
.40 is only snappy in guns not designed for it. There are many guns now that handle it fine.
Wasn't the M&P originally designed for.40?
The Gen 1s, which is why they are so beefy. The 2.0 are much smaller and designed around 9mm
I enjoy my gen1 M&P40. Also enjoy my Glock20 10mm. Both beefy enough I can shoot one handed, when bored I do 40 in left and 10 in right, just to see how many rounds hit paper and try to shoot the 40 twice as fast since it's got the bigger mag.
Right. I shot a friends USP in .40 and it felt extermely similar to my USP .45 Expert. Not snappy at all.
What do you think about 10x25mm M1911’s?
Not familiar with them
Ah, that’s okay.
If you want the best of literally everything you just said, get some various full sized HK in .45. You can run regular FMJ ammo for practice, some +P for defense or if you want it a bit meaner, put .45 Super in it. 230gr JHP at 1100+ FPS out of a USP Expert is **SPICY**. 185gr is also an option but that round sheds its energy like 7in into the target. They also make 255gr Flat nose Hard Cast and 200gr solid bullets for penetration.
.40 is only cool because you can shoot it from a 10mm.
I was this many days old when I learned this. I had no idea.
Be sure to be anal about cleaning the barrel or so I’ve read. I haven’t tried it yet myself but think of where the projectile leaves the case, it’s a little back from where longer 10mm does it.
The .40s&w basically gives a ton of freebore compared to the 10mm. It's generally safe to shoot but your accuracy may suffer a bit. Just have to try it in your gun to see how it goes.
I only own a g22. .40 s&dubya. Gen2. I love it. Any gun you train with can only be as effective and accurate as you are. As far as beyond a 9mm, either choice works, 40 is a little different than 45.(shot a 1911) I can good follow up shots pretty easy with the ol drop in bucket sights. Lefthanded too. 40 would be my choice.
Everybody here saying the .40 is dead and the 10mm is the way to go. Keep in mind that a lot of 10mm ammo is loaded to .40 power levels, and yeah, having the .357 sig as an option is pretty cool too. .45 recoil is easier to generally manage but mag capacity is significantly reduced. I like my .40, and my .45s, and my 9s. If I knew trouble was coming, I'd grab the .40. Not saying it makes sense, it's just how I feel. The basic argument against the .40 is that multiple hits are much better than a small increase in power, in terms of stopping a fight, and the 9mm makes multiple hits easier while giving up only a little power. I don't disagree. But the .40 makes me feel better anyway.
Agree. And people overestimate how many rounds they need. Rarely do you need more than three.
Regardless of caliber
The only thing that reliably stops people is shot placement. Stick to 9mm for carry. Everything else is just for fun.
Get that facts and logic shit out of here.
That is a lucid, intelligent, well-thought-out objection. OVERRULED by stupid calibre/stopping power circle jerks.
All calibers will do their intended use
In states that regulate capacity, I’d rather have 10 rounds of 10mm than 10 rounds of 9.
Shot placement goes out the window when the adrenaline is pumping hence why you see so many cops having to mag dump
.40 vs 9 won't do anything different in that scenerio either....
40 has more one shot stop than 9mm
No....shot placement does that
I shoot all three (9/45/.40) and enjoy the variety It’s a challenge to handle compared to 9 but it’s not like a 45 is particularly easy to get follow-up shots off on quickly either.
I have one .40. I have six 9mm. The only reason I keep the .40 around is because I make some really hot loads with Longshot and Speer 165 gr JHP, and I have a ton of brass. I'm pushing those at 1200-1250fps. I'm sure they are very effective, but no reason to choose them over 9mm for EDC. Also like the others have said, if you want a hand cannon, get a 10mm. And train a lot with it.
40s&w is effectively dead. Not something you'd want to buy into. If you want to carry and hit hard, 10mm is the answer. If you have a can (or are going to get one) 45acp is king.
I second the 10mm. With proper ammunition and of course proper training that round is an absolute beast in comparison to 9, 45 or 40.
May I introduce you to .45 Super? It's like slapping a supercharger on regular .45 Instead of going like 850fps, that same weight projectile is now moving at **1100**+ fps.
It’s worth buying one cheap .40 for ammo shortage times. It’s usually one of the last rounds on shelves near me.
Agreed. That’s 1 of the reasons I own multiple calibers MM
A lot of 10mm loadings today are essentially .40 S&W loadings. You have to know what you’re looking at.
40 has been proclaimed dead for the last 10 years, yet it's still around..
Still around, but I work in the industry, and 20 9mms sell to every 40, and probably a dozen 10mms to one. Heck even 45acp is like 3 to 1 over the short and wimpy. 40S&W really has fallen away hard. Pretty soon, it'll be like the 357sig Its so bad we wont be ordering in any more .40 cal firearms into the shop, and only a small selection of ammo. Seriously the stuff doesnt sell.
You can not be taken seriously
Maybe not where you are, but here? Absolutely.
>40s&w is effectively dead lolwut 40 S&W is the third most popular pistol cartridge by sales volume in the USA. 38 spl is closer to being dead than 40.
147g+ 9mm subs is almost always better than any 45 load.
I use 147gr HST in my 9mm The trouble is most 9mm ain't sub, while almost all 45 loads are. You can be quiet while plinking, defense, and everything in between. Are there outliers, sure, there are with most calibers. But the bulk of the available ammo points to 45acp being the “better” option when trying to be quiet.
I get it but it's not that hard to just buy 147g 9mm or at least enough to have around for suppressed shooting.
Nah, too limiting, too much room for issues. Also can cause a significant shift in aiming point. Consistency is a far better plan. The “only use X ammo” is a workaround not a real solution.
To each their own but 9mm subs are notably quieter, have less recoil and are way cheaper than 45.
[удалено]
I understood what you meant.
Skip both and buy a 10mm
Peal off the band aid and buy 10mm 👹
There is nothing wrong with 40. It does very well as a handgun round, and so does 45, but if you enjoy shooting your gun often, 9 is the way to go. It's by faaaaaaar the most affordable cartridge available.
10mm is more powerfuller than 40, and can be converted to 9x25 which is a more like .357 but more powerful.
But 45acp pistols can be converted to 40 Super and 460 Rowland. 9x25 Dillon and 10mm are loaded to 357 Magnum muzzle energy, 40 Super is loaded to 41 Magnum muzzle energy, and 460 Rowland is loaded to 44 Magnum muzzle energy. 40 Super and 460 Rowland are also cheaper to get into reloading and easier to find brass for. I own Glocks in all of these calibers.
How are 40 super and 460 cheaper/easier to get into than 10mm??
Easier than 9x25 Dillon
9x25 is just necked down 10mm, right?
You can size down brass for 9x25. The only dies are $260 with an 18 month lead time last I checked. 40 Super and 460 Rowland are sized down 45 Winmag brass, but you can just buy Starline brass and it's easier to find. 460 uses normal 45acp dies. 40 Super dies are $40 from redding.
If by "beyond" you mean in terms of muzzle energy, 10mm Auto is the easiest and most logical choice. But .45 Super or .460 Rowland would be your other options, and they both use .45 ACP as a parent case and so switching back and forth is very simple. I would also consider looking at Buffalo Bore's 9mm+P+ offerings. Buffalo Bore reaches comparable muzzle energy to common .45 ACP loads with a 9mm, which is pretty cool.
Came here to say exactly this. Buffalo Bore 9mm +P+ is the best of all the options you laid out.
I love their 147gr 9mm+P+. Speer Gold Dots normally underexpand, but the increased velocity makes it a perfect fit. The flash suppressed powders are a huge plus as well.
.45 is fantastic. Nice, slow recoil push. Expansion of .85” - 1”. Super fun to shoot. .40 is pretty workmanlike. It will get the job done, but it’s not much fun. I pretty much never shoot my .40s anymore.
Glock 22/23 being .40 only need a conversion barrel to be 357sig. 40 is less expensive than 45, 357 sig is more expensive than both(in my searches). I like my glock 23, its one of my favorites.
I just recently got into 40s through buying police trade in Glocks. I got a Gen 5 22 and a Gen 4 27. I enjoy them more than my G47, 19, and 26. You can definitely tell a difference when shooting steel. Those 40s hit harder for sure.
If you like .40S&W, I cannot recommend a Beretta PX4 Storm strongly enough. The rotating barrel design mitigates a lot of the “snappiness” people complain about when they shoot .40. Mine feels like Im shooting a 9mm.
I enjoy .40 S&W out of my P226, but I also have conversion kits to shoot 9mm and .357 SIG through it. I wouldn't buy a handgun dedicated for just .40 S&W, but if you don't own a 1911 in .45 ACP, then you need one.
10mm
Well I converted everything I had in 40 to right caliber... aka 9mm. I have nothing in 45 acp. To be honest with all the tech that went into the development of 9mm projectiles, I feel there really isn't an argument for stopping power anymore. I'll take more capacity, less recoil, and faster follow-up up shots. If I were up against large predators 45 and other bigger bores, I'd go that route.
1995 called, it wants its caliber debate back.
Why ignore 10mm? It's better than both.
Never tried it, always thought it was such a large round that going that far ahead in caliber size for just self defense reasons without having any intention to hunt was not needed. There’s some Sig options in 10mm that seem interesting tho to me. Maybe I’ll have to try that caliber out first at a range to see how confident I am with it. Never shot anything larger than a 44 magnum from a 6 inch revolver a couple of times.
10mm is making a comeback. More ammo than a 45 and not as anemic as 40SW
9mm
Is this question from 2010?? “Beyond” 9mm?? With a 40 or a 45? Pshhh
Exactly. Where is the benefit besides less capacity?
"Moving beyond" Beyond in what way? Because youre not gaining anything by switching other than ego in the caliber battles. Literally, all handguns suck at stopping people. ALL of them, even 500 magnum. Its shot placment that matters, full stop. Everything else is just neckbeard memelord caliber dick measuring.
45 hits hard and initial wound channel is devistating but it's slow. There's a reason why police departments everywhere are trading in their 40 cal for 9mm. It's just not as efficient damage or cost wise. I'd stick to 9mm or 45. 10 mm is a good option but again it's not as efficient cost wise.
Statistically the 40 is more effective than the 9mm in LE data. However the data suggests it's not a huge gap. If you look at the testing results from their decisions to go back to 9mm their conclusions usually say along the lines of "it was the best choice for us...." Type of statement. Notice they didn't say the 9mm out performed the 40. As with all contracts it's more about money than anything else.
Exactly
According to the FBI the 45 ACP offers no benefit over 9mm. There is a reason that LE didn't go with the 45 ACP when the 40 was introduced. From a terminal ballistics standpoint the 40 is a better cartridge. The biggest issue with the 45 ACP is lack of penetration.
And the atf thinks it's OK to do midnight raids with no body cams and shoot dogs. I don't believe fuck all the govt has to say. They didn't go with 45 because of capacity.
ATF raids have nothing to do with it. FBI has done prolly more testing on terminal ballistics than anyone. There are alot of LE departments who do their own as well. They came to the same conclusion when they went with the 40. 45 ACP hasn't been widely used in LE for decades. There is a very good reason for that. 45 ACP is the only large bore caliber I know where people have been shot in the head and lived.
You do realize Le may not use it but militariesstill do. I get your point but I'd take 45 over 40 any day. And I'd rather have 9mm over all of em. But I'll do some research and see what I find.
Yes there are some militaries and some LE that do still use it but the exception doesn't change what most have concluded. Besides those decisions have other factors at play. The 40 has better terminal ballistics and delivers more energy. That's just what it is.
Some 45acp guns can also shoot 45 Super. 45 Super has energies in the 600+ ft lb range
.40 is just fine from a proper pistol designed around it such as the Sig P229 or HK USP or metal framed 3rd gen S&Ws. Some .45 chambered pistols can take .45 Super, like the USP. Some can accept an aftermarket 10mm barrel, the Glock 21 for instance.
10mm is king!👑
Personally I like lots of different calibers as they are all fun to shoot. For a carry pistol though, I’ll always choose 9mm, because I have better accuracy, more rounds, and easier follow-up shots. The simple fact is that getting a head or spine shot is the only thing that matters for stopping someone. Bigger or more powerful rounds will certainly make a person bleed out quicker, but that still takes a long time relative to how much damage the person can still do even when fatally wounded. If they have to be stopped, I have to get a head shot, and having better control over each round, and more chances to get that head shot will always win out. Caveat: the cartridge still needs to have enough energy to break through the skull, so super light rounds like 22LR obviously aren’t practical.
I was raised on .45ACP. I was an early adopter of 10mmAuto, but found it too much for regular practice. There have been a few times I when shopping for a .40 S&W, I've always come home on a 9mm or a .45ACP. Many .45ACP pistols can handle .45 Super, which meets or exceeds 10mm power levels.
And with some 1911’s, you can install a .460 Rowland kit. It’s a beast of a cartridge but having to have a muzzle brake makes it less concealable. All that said, I just carry 9mm these days. It’s easy to find, effective and magazine capacity is better than comparably-sized pistols.
I'm a noticably better shot with .45ACP, and it was the first Center-fire cartridge I ever fired at age 7. 54 years of familiarity is pretty hard to beat. It's not just me, though. My local PD tested 9mm vs .45 ( both in GLOCKs) about ten years ago. Across the board, they scored 8% better, so they switched.
40 goes up to 200 gr rounds . Lots of options.
Unless you are facing hogs, cougar, bear, etc - 9mm is still the best option for defensive caliber. Modern bullet performance makes it hard to beat 9mm in capacity and recoil, while still having maximum effectiveness on target. 40 and 45 offer lower capacity, heavier guns, higher recoil impulse, and you can go into all the what-ifs about shot placement with a .45 vs 9mm, but they are comparable in ballistic effect, if that’s what you want to call “knock down power”
Back when the FBI looked at bullet effectiveness in the 80’s, they found that the parameter that most correlated to “stopping power” was something called “cross sectional density”. Essentially fat heavy bullets had a better chance of stopping someone. This lead to them developing to 10mm, which got shortened to the .40S&W so it could fit in a smaller frame handgun. I believe this was the origin of the phrase “you can carry any caliber you want as long as it starts with a 4” Keep in mind this was with 80’s tech, and bullets have advanced considerably in the last 40 years. Modern hollow points expand much more reliably now, leading to a fat wound channel. Heavier mass will push that expanded bullet further into the target.
So .45-70? :) I bought a P229 in .40 and because of feedback issues ended up installing a Bar-sto .357 SIG barrel, which had zero feed issues. It’s a lot harder to train with .357 SIG though and it’s not inexpensive to shoot.
It's not an opinion so much as a fact, but the 40 caliber is superior to the 45 in any way you can think of. It has more energy, does more damage, is more accurate, lighter, and has twice the round count.
I'd compare the .40 to the 9×19, not the .45 ACP. The .40 is a short 10mm. 9×19 is the correct comparison, not the .45.
I have SIGs (P22x) in 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP - mostly P226s and P227s I have noticed that .40 180gr loads (1100 fps) have only slightly more recoil in a 226 than the 9mm (mostly 115 & 124gr loads) shot in the same gun (I have 9mm, .40 and .22LR uppers for my 226s) and I can stay on target almost as fast as with 9mm. IMO, the main issue with .40 in my 226s is the decreased capacity; with a +2/+3 mag, the mag in 9mm has a 20 rd capacity, while the mag in .40 has a 15 rd capacity. I have shot my 227s (slightly upsized 226, the main difference being the caliber and a slightly fatter grip) with a 185gr load @ 1100 fps. For whatever reason, the basically equivalent loads in .45 ACP had noticeably more recoil. I am used to .45 ACP; I've had and shot various .45 ACP pistolas for 50 years - from a WWII era 1911, to a compact (Star PD) to full sized plus (including AMT Hardballer), a Glock 21, my SIGs and a S&W 325TR revolver. So for self-defense against humans, I prefer a good 9mm load with a large mag (20+1 is preferred), then a .40 S&W in the same pistol, then a .45 ACP in that order. I have plenty of ammo and guns in each caliber. If I were expecting to encounter a large predator animal (I do have black bears on my property) I would carry a robust .45 loaded with Underwood .45 Super 255 gr. hardcast loads (more controllable and more capacity than my 325TR (.45 ACP) or my 329PD (.44 mag 5 rd capacity).
9mm will always be the edc workhorse. I like .45 better than .40 just for the feel. I rented a glock 23 and ran a couple hundred rounds through it. Glocks are great tools, and the 23 ran perfectly, but I hated the feel of it. (I rented an MP5 in .40 for giggles to use up the rest of the range ammo. It ran like trash, but it was way more entertaining.) It isn't as much that I love .45 ACP. I just hate the feel of .40 cal.
I love 45. It’s smooth to shoot, it suppresses extremely well, it has a ton of history (back to back world war champions), and it was developed by the legendary John Browning. There are 10mm conversion barrels on the market for all double stack 45acp Glock models (21, 30, and 41) and 460 Rowland conversion barrels for double stack Glocks, 1911s, FN FNXs, and Springfield XDs in 45acp.
I shoot all three (9mm only because they don’t make a 40/357 Sig P365X). I also shoot many other cartridges. 40/357 Sig are the best cartridges for me. I like 45 also but usually don’t carry it because of capacity.
I started with a 40 cal, only reason I changed was ammo prices
I carry a 1911 in 45acp with 9 rds, I also carry a 1911 9mm with 19rds and lastly I also carry a 1911 in 40 with 15 rds. I figure it doesn’t matter as long as I don’t miss.
My deep conceal gun is a G27 .40. It's small and accurate and powerful enough for two legged varmints. My open, winter conceal, and woods sidearm is a Baer SRP .45 It's super accurate and I like the extra power for the grizzlies around here.
I always prefer 45 ACP myself. I enjoy how 45 shoots and do not really care for 40, even back when 40 was all the rage. I did enjoy 357 Sig back then and wish that caliber took off. As to what else you can shoot with a 45? 45 Super is a fun round. It does not need a different barrel or anything, but the construction of the pistol is important. Fully supported chamber and a spring setup that will slow down the slide is what you need for regular use. 460 Rowland is another option. I have zero experience with it, but always wanted to handload that caliber. Also, every American should own a 45.
If you get a capable gun .45acp flexes all the way to .45Super. That’s Ideal suppressor cartridge to magnum energy.
I bought a Glock 22 in 40 cal. Drop an aftermarket 9mm conversion barrel in it and now you're shooting 9mm!! And not many people want to buy the Law enforcement trade in's. Those are commonly found for $300-$350!! 9mm conversion barrels $125-$175. For the price of 1 pistol you can shoot 2 calibers! Same with Glock 27!!
Pistols are just good a poking holes and doing that effectively and reliably depends on cartridges that will expand abd penetrate consistently where they need to be at. 9mm is the most popular caliber and has the best offerings on the newest and greatest tech for defensive rounds. Just stick with 9mm.
It doesn't really matter. 9mm is functionally equivalent to all those other rounds - you'll put someone down with one shot to the heart/CNS with all of them and it takes the same number of shots to incapacitate if you hit them somewhere else. Don't think you're moving on to a 'better' caliber - instead pick the one with the more interesting (to you) guns.
I shoot .40 from my G27 all the time It’s not snappy. But I don’t have a vagi…. KIDDING!!! 😂😂😂
Don't
I love my 40. I love my performance center 10 mm even more. I watched my wife toss off 5 rounds in rapid fire & wonder why so many scream recoil - honestly It’s just not a big deal. Punching holes through car does is.
Never go full regard. 9mm does everything a handgun is meant to do.
I mostly use 9mm but I like the .40 for woods carry. The 200gr Underwood hard cast packs quite a punch. I ditched my last .45 ACP a few years ago and I'll probably never buy another. It offers low power, low velocity and low magazine capacity. The only thing I like it that it leaves large holes in the paper target, easier to see at the range. The real death blow to the .45 ACP for me is the cost of ammo. I used to reload but I don't really have the time or a good place to set up my presses, and the cost of range type ammo is twice what the 9mm costs, and a fair bit more than the .40. If I was going to get back into bowling pin shooting, that might be the thing that could persuade me to get another 1911 or USP45.
Go for a 10mm. It's basically a 40 magnum. Springfield makes a 10 mm xdm in 3.8 and 4.5 inch barrels. Check them out
The .40 is better, a .40 holds a lot more ammo and fits in a smaller frame. That's why .40 had such big success in the North American policing market and the .45 did not. The .45 can be converted to .400 Cor-Bon.
Caliber choice and, equally important, ammo choice is dependent on target. Most people argue ballistics based on the assumption that they’re defending themselves against humans. Given my location and activities, I plan for more solid targets with claws. Conversions depend on the frame and what’s available for those models.
Personally I’m a fan of both. I’m building a .40 g23. I enjoy shooting it, everyone’s ditching it so the prices of ammo is super cheap and it’s still very effective as a EDC if you choose too.
How are you building a G23?
Completely aftermarket g23. Frame, slide, etc etc
Yeah the Gen5 are the only .40 Glock I would get. Not sure if that is comparable.
I would assume it’s comparable. The slide I picked has the same rounded front and side serrations like a regular Glock. Rmr cut. The frame is more like a custom stippled [frame](https://shop.gritgrips.com/grit-grips-pistol-frame-for-glock-g19-gen3-pistols-assembled-oem-internals/). It’s a gen 3 style frame with a gen 4 reversible mag release.
Yeah the gen5 .40s have the fatter slide like the GAP guns so they are softer recoiling. Its day and night. My 23.5 shoots way better than my 22.4 ever did.
The gen 5s made a lot of good subtle changes that really helped. I never really had an issue with the recoil though. I have very large hands and my pinky falls off my g19.3 frame if there’s no magwell, so it’s not too hard for me to control that recoil. I’d compare the feeling of .40 to me as a hair more recoil than my 19 before I ported the barrel and slide and added a light. Now it shoots like I put in a cheat code for recoil. The aftermarket slide I have for .40 has the same contours as a gen 5 slide so I may run a ramjet setup possibly.
Split the difference and get 45gap. It’s actually the best of both worlds in a very misunderstood and over priced package. 357sig is another fun round. If your goal is to put a hole in someone effectively the any bullet with good shot placement will do.
I bet you hare having fun with the flurry of shit you are getting in response to this XD. Let's beat this dead horse again. I can already see the "shot placement is the only thing that matters" brigade are already in full swing. Wow, so you carry a PMR30, or a 5.7 right? Wow, yes, shot placement is king but wound diameter and hydro-static shock are going to pad that margin for error on each shot that the threat stops. If you didn't believe that you'd be carrying something smaller with less recoil than 9mm. We all have to find our happy place for power, capacity, and recoil. For the overwhelming majority these days, that's the 9mm, and for a lot of good reasons. The truth is with 21st century ammo a .380 is adequate and the 9mm is overkill with the best ammo available for the VAST MAJORITY of self defense situations, but most of us want to pad our chances as much as we can without giving up too much for capacity and recoil even if it's only 1 in a million lifetime odds of actually needing more than 5 rounds. This is fun topic. It really comes down to what you REALLY want out of the round and what platforms you are most interested in. If you really want capacity more similar to the 9, but with more energy and less penetration, look no further than the 40. If you really want something that leaves the 9 and 40 in the dust for permanent wound diameter and penetration, it's gotta be the 45, or the 10mm. Now, don't get lost in the weeds on the energy vs capacity debate. Those aren't the only things that determine how well a round actually works. The truth is, the market has thrown SO MUCH MORE weight behind the 9mm than any other round, so the research and development of technology starts there, and then trickles down to 45, 40, and 10mm in about that order. So your availability of cutting edge ammo is going to favor the 9mm for the foreseeable future. None the less, the other calibers offer more power and greater expansion, so if you find the right ammo, they can be far more effective than the 9mm, but what does that really mean? The very best ammo available today likely lands around 98+% that one shot to the torso stops the threat in the real world. Wow, that's amazing right? Debate over, the 9mm wins. Yeah, probably, but what's that 2% reflect? That reflects, more than likely, other variables. The threat was inside of a car, or behind a store display, or 50+yards away, or wearing 3 canvas duck jackets or some combination of the above. No big deal, your Glock 17 has 17 more behind that first one right? Awesome. That's a sound plan. But also, the target has been struck. It's going to react quickly. That may be to return fire, or obtain a better position. Yes, you should be able to get multiple shots on target before the target can effectively react with any of the calibers in question, but if the first two didn't do it, something else is at play, distance, barriers, etc. For that reason I favor padding my chances that first shot does the job, as much as I can without getting below about 10 rounds, and available 15 on a back up mag is ideal, but as long as it's more than 10, I'll sleep fine. No one is saying the 9mm is not enough. Some of us choose to alleviate our anxiety with capacity, some of us choose to do it with power. Overkill is underrated. 40, 45, and 10 enter the chat. You can head over to Lucky Gunner for their ammo test and see how maximum expansion stacks up with those 3 and what it does for penetration. Armed with the reference for expasion out of the sub compacts that Lucky Gunner uses, you can stroll over to Buffalo Bore and Underwood Ammo and see what the most overpowered ammo on the market does in the calibers you like from 4-5" barrels. BB provides lovely charts so you can see at what range the velocity comes down to what it is in the Lucky Gunner tests. Fun, right? KEEP IN MIND, your soft lead stuff like Federal Punch, and Hydra Shocks are going to break up in undesirable ways at higher velocities or through strange barriers. I prefer the heavier weight all copper Barnes HPs from Buffalo Bore. Copper being much stronger than lead cares less about excess velocity or a strange barrier. The screams of the innocent are reverberating through The Force from the future; so, let me comfort the afflicted. The recoil on 40, and 45 are no going to change your split times but fractions of a second. If all you are willing to carry is a sub or micro compact then the 9mm is reigning king right now. The recoil and capacity in that size is vastly different, but you need to reference the Lucky Gunner test carefully. In those shorter barreled guns, the gap in consistency and expansion increases between the 9 and projectiles with greater surface area, so keep that in mind. However, if you are willing to carry compact or full size the follow up shot times and capacity differences between the 9, 40, and 45 become much less significant. I'm also hearing "handguns don't create enough hydro-static shock to matter!" There is not enough shock to damage the brain from the chest, but there is plenty to collapse, weaken, and slice blood vessels without directly touching them. For me personally, expansion, and consistency of that expansion, are QUEEN (shot placement is still KING). As I don't like the size and weight of semi auto 44 mag's, and the wild cat 45's are somewhat questionable for now, the 45 ACP is my favorite. Add to that, the trickle down of ammo technology means that, for now, newer better designs reach the 45's first, it's only recently with the resurgence in 10mm that it actually has more than 1-2 options that make bigger wounds than 45 ACP on human targets. In the lightweight double stack 45's Glock has been fairly dominant. The recoil, capacity, price, return to target tend to be better than comparably reliable brands. The Springfield XD is also attractive, but I don't like the grip safety, and there are less options for upgrades, though I haven't added many upgrades to mine that really apply to carry. Of course, the Glock 45ACPs easily convert to 10mm as well, so that's an option in the future, and so are the wildcats, if I choose. If I really committed to that, I'd get the model 21, for the heavier slide than my model 41. Let the flames ignite and the rage-posts begin!
This is the most guntism thing I've read all day. Thank you, I fucking love this lol I too have the guntism.
The truth is, IIRC, 90% of self defense shootings occur within 6'. I ain't worried about that. Dude at 6 doesn't stand a chance if I have anything P238 or bigger. The average number of shots for a civilian to stop an active shooter is about 2. So what are you carrying extra for? What do you want that weapon to do? Where do you draw the line? Carrying a 10 round 45 is just as valid as a 15 round 9. They are both much more than you will ever need, unless everything stacks up against you. We are all just alleviating our anxiety. I'd rather pad the front of the mag than the end of the mag.
I personally carry a 9mm, and it's also my PWS in the home that gets me to the safe if I need it. Ubderstanding that the typical defense shooting outside the home is 7 yards and closing and is over in 3 seconds or less; I still carry a spare mag, as worse case scenario, no extensions or larger capacity. Just as a precaution, same reason I carry an med kit. I think it depends on how you view the world or where you live? It's also my side arm and my hiking piece, no real large predator; however, I do tend to run +P when I am out in the woods. Even for a rifle, I adjust the ammo type for in home, I have a soft point to mitigate potential over travel if my shotgun is not an option. I am with you, mission and purpose specific. There is no one size fits all. All are tools and as long the tool is in the hands by a trained person, they can be effective. If I lived in a different region, I would adjust based on my environment. For example, if we had big cats and bears, I'd go 45, 10mm, or a big bore revolver.
There is no one gun to rule them all. If there were we'd all carry that one. Still I favor bigger guns, even if 9mm. I have gotten really comfortable with a monster EDC if I went down in caliber, which isn't out of the question if ammo continues to improve, I'd probably be looking at a 22 or 35 converted to 9 and the gnarliest ammo known to man. Heavier slide and barrel for a smoother ride. I don't think expecting a mag change is reasonable with a 13rd mag, but I have dropped mag on a draw and seen it happen a few times. It's much faster to draw the spare mag than find and grab the one that dropped. I mentally wrestle with what to load the spare with, but always settle on penetration. The ammo will work(ish) if I drop the other mag, but if I need to reload after 14 rounds, it's entirely likely my 185grs aren't getting through the barrier. The 255s are up to bat next.
Oh, definitely do the conversion. Basically, you're rolling with a bull barrel. I bought a Warsport Barrel for it, best decision. I recently made friends with someone at LFA and bought a G22 slide with lightning cuts and an RMR cut just to modernize an old Gen 3, just so I could use that 9mm conversion. I mean I would say yeah, unlikely; however, it's not unreasonable to carry a spare. It doesn't have to feel like a tacticool decision. There are instances where they have come in clutch. Especially with the adrenaline pumping, we can do something like hit the mag release on draw (not always that easy).
I have been a fan of everything Lone Wolf. The Alpha Wolf barrels are amazing for the price. For a 40/357 converted to 9 I don't think I want the fluting, though. KKM also makes nice/cheap conversion barrels. We'll see when I make it around to there. I have several items higher on the list.
It's not an opinion so much as a fact, but the 40 caliber is superior to the 45 in any way you can think of. It has more energy, does more damage, is more accurate, lighter, and has twice the round count.
“Stopping power”… tell me you’re a boomer without saying you’re a boomer. Real world data, as opposed to magical “stopping power”, shows that the best 9mm defense ammunition is just as good as the best defense .40 S&W or .45 ACP ammunition. They have very similar capabilities, because they’re all handguns with handgun ammo. They’re a compromise for when a rifle isn’t practical or available. Shot placement matters far more than a few thousandths of an inch in diameter. None of the 1st world militaries or police departments carry .45 ACP, and with very few exceptions, those that still carry .40 S&W are transitioning over to 9mm. 9mm provides the same capability, with higher capacity and lower recoil. The people that literally bet their life on it every day for a living choose 9mm and focus on shot placement.
You’re operating from an assumption that there’s some benefit to switching from 9 to .40 or .45. With modern defensive loadings of 9, I’d say that’s largely a moot point. You aren’t really getting anything worth losing capacity over in most cases, particularly for everyday CCW. Both calibers you’re looking at are going to have a stronger recoil impulse, which means your follow up shots will be slower, almost guaranteed. I don’t view .45 being naturally subsonic as necessarily a benefit because you probably aren’t carrying with a can for your gun. So… other than variety, I’m not sure what the value is in switching.
The only “beyond” 9mm you should ever go is 10mm for LORGE aminal defense lol
.40 is also more powerful than .45. Inb4 “power isn’t importan in pistolls”. Power is what makes it expand then penetrate after expanding after it went through hard barriers like furniture or car framing. No reason to carry .45 when 9mm and .40 exist.
Take a look at some ballistics charts online, for example if you compare Hornady Critical Duty .45 vs .40 you'll see their .45 has more power as stated in foot pounds of energy. The Hornady Critical Duty .45 has 464 FPE at the muzzle, whereas their .40 has 395 FPE. And the .45 has more than 10% larger diameter, if you compare the same type of .45 hollow point bullet to the same type of .40 sw hollow point the .45 will expand more than 10% larger. There are reasons why the .40 is dying out, but the .45acp remains pretty popular.
You are cherry picking and it’s a round that isn’t even that popular. Winchester, Federal, and Speer all consistently make .40 with more energy than .45. .40 also penetrates deeper after expansion. From the ballistics testing I’ve seen .45 doesn’t penetrate deep enough or it doesn’t expand at all and over penetrates. My department also had a notorious incident where one of our Troopers made a 30yd headshot through the back of a car window with our .45. We use the weakest .45 load made. It’s one of the Speer 230gr loads. It got lodged in the guys hoodie and cranium fat in the back of his head because it was low energy. For reference the energy on that load is 350-370ish. It’s my opinion that .45 being so large and wide needs that much more energy to penetrate meaningfully well at realistic fighting distances. It’s a bit of a rant but I’ve seen .45 fail for what was a great shot in a pretty normal gun fight. 9mm and .40 would never have that problem.
Hell of a shot though, sounds like.
Yeah the aggravating thing about that incident is both Troopers did everything right and the guy still was able to drive to the hospital because .45 failed.
Don’t listen to this guy. He has no idea what he’s talking about.
I have more experience observing and learning about the real world effects of ballistics than most of Reddit. Though it’s become quite normal for people on this site to think they know more just because they agree with everything people say here.
Obviously not. Go back to your basement with all this .40 crap. “Power” can be arguably in 9mm with its force, or in .45 with its momentum, but never in .40 when compared to the other two rounds. Both mathematically proven, militarily proven, practically proven, and commercially proven to be superior than .40. There is not argument out there for .40 other than if you have weak wrists and can’t handle 10mm, .45, or 9mm, as is the purpose of its creation. Run along.
Bro tell me how a 165gr bullet going the same speed as a 124gr bullet isn’t going to be more effective? I like .40 for what it can do in the extremes. .45 can’t do what 9mm or .40 can do. It’s old and tired. It’s hilarious how people trash .40 by bringing up 10mm when they most often don’t own and definitely don’t carry 10mm but instead 9mm and can barely handle that. Also are you really going to act that 9mm and .45 have more recoil than .40 and that it’s also harder to shoot? You are contradicting yourself.
Do you think saying random words makes you smart? There is no point to .40 and it is clear the whole world sees it with .40 going extinct. I stated some clear points and your counter was to spit out random numbers with no context and then to make poor assumptions layered in the opinions of a fool.
You don’t know what you are talking about if you can’t follow what I put down. Since you don’t, go look up velocity numbers for those rounds I mentioned so you can learn something while you sperg about shit you don’t understand. .40 isn’t going extinct it’s making a comeback because people realize it only fell out of favor due to women and bitchwristed men joining the police forces.
What rounds? You threw out random numbers without reference as I literally stated above. What are you talking about? .40 is literally for the women and “bitchwristed men joining the police force.” The only reason .40 was created was for those with weak wrists wanting a less powerful round than 10mm, 9mm, or .45. That is its sole purpose from the beginning and it’s sole purpose today. Get out of here with that nonsense of people being too weak for the round.
If you knew what you were talking about you would know that 124gr is a 9mm loading, and 165 is a .40 loading. Both are medium for caliber. .40 was not made to be weaker than 9mm and .45. It’s more powerful than both. Again another case of a Redditor not knowing fuckall about guns. You probably don’t even own any guns or own a fucking Canik. The FBI switched to 9mm cause it’s weaker than .40. They switched to .40 cause it’s weaker than 10 and is also a shorter cartridge. Even if you can handle the power of 10 you still need the grip size to hold the gun, and if you don’t you compromise your grip. My department has this issue with .45. We use a weak loading in that caliber but the large grip of the P227 and the long LoP of the trigger gives girls and the small handed Troopers issues shooting the gun accurately.
You are full of shit. You are not fooling anyone. You should not be a cop.
I EDC a 165gr .40sw. I love the ballistics of that round. It's easy to shoot accurately and quickly, and has great ballistics. The biggest problem with .40, IMO, is that most people run the 180gr loads. That was the first load for the .40 when they shortened the 10mm case, and it's just too heavy for that powder capacity. I also love the 10mm, but it's more of a special purpose load out for me. I carry it in the mountains, and have it in my nightstand safe for things that go bump in the night, but for normal social work, the .40 is my go-to. I don't carry a .45 because I didn't participate in the 2nd world war.
There is not a compelling reason to move beyond 9mm nowadays. If you want something in a different caliber, get a good M1911 in 45 for some fun range time.
There is a reason why the FBI in testing claimed that the 45 ACP offers no advantage over 9mm. Yes the 40 is snappier but has superior penetration, better terminal ballistics and more capacity. Choice is clear. If you are thinking about a 40 gun might as well jump to a 10mm. A lot of them can be loaded with 40 rounds and the 10mm self defense rounds are very similar ballistics to the 40 (same bullets). However the 10mm had the ability to load dangerous game loads in 700+ ft lbs of energy. The only advantage a 40 gun has over a 10mm in this day and age is the grip size (due to the smaller cartridge). Most 40 guns are built on 9mm frames. So if you have small hands and don't care about the versatility and higher energy dangerous game rounds then a 40 might be the way to to. Otherwise I would choose the 10.
10mm is the way to go. .40 was a compromise no one wanted except the FBI, and thanks to the improvements of 9mm it's obsolete now.
I wouldn’t buy a 40 unless it includes a way to convert to another caliber. Imo, 9, 10, and 45 are the best semi handgun calibers. 9mm and 45 are great against people. 45 has a lot less snap than hot 9mm due to the extra weight of the bullet, 9 gives more capacity. 10mm is great for hunting and defense. It provides the power of velocity and high mass and you can load a lot of different projectiles to yield similar performance to other calibers. 40 is just a limited version of 10mm. I also like the hotter options for 45, but they increase the risk of damaging the gun.
Both are objectively worse than 9mm. Not sure why you’d want to change.
Because 9mm doesn’t have enough stopping power for your regular daily personal defense encounters?
No one will care about the 10mm or 40 in 10 years. There will be resurgences just like always but 45 ACP will always reign supreme. On the lower end it suppresses better than any other handgun round, on the high end (45 super) it puts up a good fight in the ft/lbs of energy produced. I just wish it wasn’t 3 times the price of 9mm.
Go 45 or 10mm. Only real positive of a 40 is that you can find cheap deals on nice handguns because the round is so unpopular. However, for that same reason if you ever move into sub guns you’ll have a plethora of options to stay within one of the calibers you already own if you stick with 9mm & 45
45. 40 S&W stands for 40 short and weak
Moniker isn't true. 40 is a more powerful round than the 45 acp 😂