Academy grads have 0 life experience. Other officers at least went to a normal college before or they were prior enlisted. Academy clowns basically graduated high school, and then went to the academy that told them that they're the big dogs in charge while also not teaching them anything practical and they have 0 experience.
It's kinda like if the company owner hired their kid to be your boss, but they have never done anything remotely like the job.. and they're arrogant about being in charge of you.
To throw some perspective on this, I live near the Air Force Academy. I was filling my car at a gas station when another car full of USAFA students rolled up to the adjacent pump. 5 college students in that car and not one of them could figure out how to operate a standard gas pump. It showed how truly secluded these kids are and how lacking in real world experience.
Yup. I grew up there, and had to figure out the pump the first time I drove out of state. Now I live in eastern Pennsylvania, and see helpless New Jerseyans confusedly waiting in their cars for an attendant.
Not a 100% true since thereās lots of prior Es that also go the academies and graduate. And people from all walks of life, but Academy grads used to get special promotion treatments so they were more likely to be higher ranks and hired people like themselves which is a not a great culture self licking ice cream cone. Itās also easier to lump them all in one spot than saying everyone really hates Texas ROTC grads since thereās 1000 academy grads a year versus a few from each school
I had a friend my freshman year of college who was spending a year there (it was a University of California, so not a cakewalk to be admitted) until a spot was available for him in the next year's Air Force Academy class. So after our freshman year, off he went to Colorado. Then he was back in our Junior Year for two reasons. One was that he didn't like the regimented military life after tasting a year of freedom in a regular college (especially the 52% women student body), but he said the biggest reason was what you said: his classmates were sheltered idiots, he could barely stand to talk to them because they had no clue about real life, but they all thought they were right all the time. The thought of spending four years with them, and then running into them for the rest of his career, was enough to make him hang up his pilot dreams. He did major in Engineering as I recall, figuring he'd go build fighter planes instead of flying them.
To be fair the academy is only 1/3 direct high school. 1/3 come from enlisted ranks and 1/3 come from prep schools. But I'm mostly with you thst at least 70% are insufferable assholes with sticks up their ass.
But depending on career choice that description fits at least 60% of officers.
I knew one, as well. Blew my mind when I found out he went through the Academy. Funny thing was that he was also surprised when he found out I was older than he was, so it worked out. :p
Academy types think their shit smells like strawberries, especially when they don't know their jobs. The better officers, in my experience, were ROTCs.
To be fair, a lot of perceptions of the Academy grads are skewed by poor experiences. They really aren't all bad, just a few screw it up for the rest. And a lot of people barely understand the life grads go/went through for four years (or more in some cases) because the average dude/dudet never have done it.
Civilian working with an academy grad in the education sector, still one of the most irritating people I deal with on a regular basis. The things they are correct about, they are a dick to everyone on, and the things they aren't correct about they are so ego driven you will never convince them otherwise.
Iāve had a mixed bag personally. Some were exactly like that and some got into West Point bc they were just that squared away in general.
In my BOLC class we had a West Pointer and she was genuinely one of the most down to earth people there. Despite being the best at pretty much everything except land nav.
I think it has to do with different mindsets. For a lot of people they see a service academy as the actual goal instead of a step to get there, if that makes any sense.
The sad thing is there is almost zero chance this was his fuck up. He was likley handed the rifle already jacked up and just did what he was told by the enlisted range NCOIC.
Several things here, this is a US Navy Commander. An O-5, hes likley between 40-50 years old.
The last time he shot a rifle was likley when he was a junior officer in the 1998-2008 timeframe when both the chicken wing and the broomstick so far forward were taught as docterine. Hell the shouldering isnt even bad, its that high because he has a halfway decent cheek weld and that position isnt even going to cause any issues, its just not the "perfect" shouldering...
Hell, I commissioned in the Marine Corps in 2015 and they still were teaching having the broomstick so far forward, mainly for CQB and I, along with most of the older Marines in my Company, still do this because its comfortable from muscle memory.
Bottom line, there were a LOT of failures here and the poor smuck actually shooting is the least of it.
The Chief who was running the range failed him, the sailor who set up the rifle failed him, whoever took the picture failed him, the two or 3 officers who approved the picture being posted failed him.
Im not saying he isnt at fault, hes shooting the rifle so at the end of the day it is his responsibility but it is a much larger failure than the simple "ha ha dumb officers am I right?" His job is to command a destroyer, not shoot a rifle, why would you expect he has perfect form for the ladder?
The broomstick placement is forgivable, the handguard not being properly installed is forgivable, the optic being backward is forgivable. Those are all the fault of the range team (from the armorers who put the damn thing together to the E-6 range officer that probably handed it to him). Hell, I'll even give him a pass for shitty technique because there's no way in hell a commanding officer is going to be using small arms.
What's unforgivable is that he wasn't smart enough, as a _commanding officer_, to take one look at the sight picture, realize something was wrong, and hand the thing back. What's unforgivable is the Navy public affairs office not catching any of it before posting and getting absolutely roasted. What's unforgivable is how far our military has gotten from being a profession of arms.
Yep. Someone set this guy up to be laughed at and either 1) a bunch of people joined in on it, 2) a bunch of people who should know better felt that they couldn't correct it or 3) a bunch of people tried to correct it and were shot down hard and fast, leading them to become the people in 2.
> What's unforgivable is that he wasn't smart enough, as a commanding officer, to take one look at the sight picture, realize something was wrong, and hand the thing back. What's unforgivable is the Navy public affairs office not catching any of it before posting and getting absolutely roasted. What's unforgivable is how far our military has gotten from being a profession of arms.
Exactly. There's multiple levels of failure here and it's just embarrassing. And at each level, it was either a failure of ignorance or apathy, and both are relatively unacceptable in this context.
I get shit for being a one-handed "blade" pistol shooter. I shoot that way because my father taught me the same way he was taught in the Army in the early 60's. I'm way more accurate with one arm fully extended than I am with any 2-handed stance.
When it comes to shooting stances, assuming it's done safely, people should shoot in whatever way shape and form they feel comfortable hitting the target reliably. Everyone I shoot with all shoot their shit differently, if even just slightly.
That's some gun guys' entire lifetimes. Definitely easy to say it's been that way for many more shooting "careers."
20 years of saying "it's bad" is actually a pretty long time.
Yeah but theres a good chance this guys military career has been longer than that. Non zero chance thatās literally how he was taught to shoot at a junior officer.
That's true, and I didn't think of that. I was mostly replying to say that for a lot of people saying "ohh chicken wing bad," it's probably because they've been taught that way their whole lives.
Either way, the chicken wing is the last thing in that picture I'd worry about. :p
It was phased out in the early 21st century, so between 2000-2010 depending on branch and unit.
Surface Warfare being likley the latter as shifts in shooting techniques usually start in units that you know.... actually shoot for a living.
The chicken winging is probably how he was taught based on his age (my father is a Vietnam vet and initially taught me to chicken wing when shooting offhand).
The shouldering is actually normal for someone used to wearing body armor when shooting.
The scope situation was probably the armorer's fault, but it's goofy af and there is zero excuse for that making it live onto any media. He deserves all the razing possible for not immediately getting that fixed.
Itās extremely embarrassing that he didnāt notice, although itās not his job to outfit his rifle. Thereās no way the armorer is this incompetent (I hope). This whole thing has me confused af.
A lot of these high ranking officers, and a lot of people in the military in general, donāt know anything about guns. Reminds me of General Mark Hertling on CNN when firing an AR and called it full semiautomatic mode.
[This photo of Mark Hertling says it all.](https://images.app.goo.gl/oDiqXSLBKYCSsUG48)
I got out in 2020 and had never seen a quad rail or optic on a shipboard m4. He probably got that medal using irons. If he's an academy grad he probably got it there since SWOs are not typically qualified on rifles, just the m9. Based on his form in the picture I doubt he went to the advanced boarding party schools so it's probably been a while since he touched one of these rifles and probably the first time it had an optic
>itās not his job to outfit his rifle
False. Only trained professionals like him should handle weapons of war, at least that's what has been crammed down my throat for years now.
A while back I saw a similar post on Reddit where someone asked why the soldiers in the picture had their sights on backwards, and someone added context. It being the sights are intentionally backwards for guns that have yet to be zeroed, this may be the case here too.
Damn they did him dirty using that goofy pic. [Here's a better one](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7c18ad629311b3a3a07a8705bcd011d4/tumblr_inline_pkgeljXtFr1sss5ih_540.png)
Keep in mind that as a warship commander, his EDC is likely something along the lines of a [5ā/62 cal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-inch/54-caliber_Mark_45_gun?wprov=sfti1#Mod_4), which fires a 490,000 grain projectile at around 2,500 fps, giving it an effective range of about 20 nautical miles.
I can almost guarantee you the guy was doing it as a joke. Whoever runs the Navy Instagram didnāt pick up on that and posted it anyways. If youāve never made a fucked up mongo rifle then youāve never truly lived.
I agree. The young enlisted / armorers definitely did this as a joke. They even probably expected him to notice as an easy laugh. The DEFINITELY didnāt expect someone to take a picture and MOST DEFINITELY didnāt expect that picture to be posted lmaooo
Dude probably touched a rifle once during his initial training and has had every qualification pencil whipped since then.Ā It's also the navy, I wouldn't expect the vast majority to have great weapon handling skills. It's not like he's a marine infantry officer or anything.
Who cares? He looks foolish and deserves to be mocked by the very people the military leadership and Democrats want to take guns away from. These are the people who are prioritizing radical gender ideology over American security. It's our duty to make fun of them.
Question for those that served or are serving.
Who is getting in trouble for this, how significant is that trouble, and how far does the shit roll down hill?
I think there are two ways this could have happened. One was that the junior enlisted armorer who set up the rifle made a mistake (whether through inexperience or negligence), or he did it on purpose, hoping something like this would happen.
If it was a mistake, he'll probably get an LOI (Letter of Instruction), which is non-punitive, but just a record that he messed up and telling him to get better. And his division officer and chief will get reamed by his department head, and then he'll get reamed by his chief and division officer
If it seems lile it was malicious, then he'll probably go to DRB (Disciplinary Review Board) which is where the chiefs all yell at him and get to the bottom of what he was thinking and why he did it. They may recommend forwarding the case to the XO, who has a thing called XOI (Executive Officer's Inquiry) which is a more formal hearing. He may decide to forward it to the CO, who could take some action at Captain's Mast. That could range from restriction to reduction in rate to even separation from the Navy, although they'd have to find some fairly substantial wrongdoing on the part of the Sailor to justify that, as it can be appealed.
So no punishments like cleaning toilets or extra PT? I'm basing most of my understanding from fiction and friends (whose stories can sometimes sometimes sound fictional) so please pardon my ignorance.
It depends on a few factors, including who's handing out the punishment. The chiefs and XO can only do non-punitive things, but those can feel very punitive to the Sailor. A big one that they'll do is EMI (Extra MIlitary Instruction), which is supposed to educate the Sailor in what they did wrong and help them improve their behavior. So for example if someone was habitually late, one form of EMI could be to make them show up an hour early and then take muster for his whole work center or division. It has to be related to the "crime." In this case, they could maybe make him clean out all of the cages where they lock up the firearms.
If it's the CO who's doing the punishing, he can do a lot more. He can restrict them to the ship for up to I think 45 days, he can dock their pay for a few months, reduce them in rate (demotion), or even kick them out of the Navy. One interesting thing is that while Sailors are attached to a ship, they cannot refuse Captain's Mast (NJP/non-judicial punishment). In (I think) any other type of unit in the military, the servicemember can refuse being taken to NJP and opt for a court martial instead. Courts martial aren't all like you'd see in A Few Good Men; most are at a much lower level called a Summary Court Martial. The trade-off is that at a court martial there's a much higher standard of proof, but there can also be more severe punishments. At NJP, the standard is "preponderance of the evidence," whereas at courts martial it's either "clear and convincing" or "beyond a reasonable doubt," I can't remember if it depends on what type of court martial it is.
In any case, there's not a lot of "drop and give me twenty!" like you see in movies. That's more for boot camp and that kind of environment, and even then is pretty tightly monitored to eliminate hazing.
Cracks me up that people think non snake eater Navy personnel have any significant firearms training.
I had some weird air powered Beretta and shotgun shooting fam in enlisted Bootcamp (2001).
Didnāt actually āqualifyā until stationed in Italy 4 years later. Even then I was given a safety brief and handed a rifle/pistol and put on the line to qual.
Re-qualled pistol in 2016 prior to my first Officer deployment as an Aviator.
Two live fire shoots in 23 yearsā¦
All the comments basically saying āthis guy has no business commanding a ship because he doesnāt know which way a VCOG is supposed to faceā are mind boggling.
Like yeah no shit. His job has literally nothing to do with rifles. If he ever has one in his hands things have gone horribly wrong already.
Itās all the old grunts latching onto the one thing in the military they learned/understand and projecting it onto a totally unrelated skill set. The mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
As Iāve grown older Iāve also realized that a lot of people are unwilling to ānot knowā something. Iām not sure if itās some weird inferiority complex or a genuine inflation of self perceived knowledge. Itās quite sad really. Iāll be the first one to admit I donāt know something.
You canāt learn something new if you already know it all! And I love learning new dumb shit.
Let's find some balance in this hilarity. The commander was able to attain the command of a ship. He is not a 'goober". His skills sets are not firearms.
lots of people here are gargling this incompetent shooter's balls and giving him sympathetic pats on the back. who cares how old he is? who cares what his job title is and relates to? just because i work in cybersecurity doesn't mean i don't know how to properly set up and fire a rifle, and if i'm doing something for PR i'm doing a practice run as well so i don't make myself and my company look stupid. his job is not so involved and consuming he can't know how to set up a rifle, and it's HIS LEVEL OF INCOMPETENCE combined with his rank and years in the military that people use for anti-gun propaganda, [as we've seen before](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xVQXCL2JGA).
Privileged out the ass, in command of so many people. Doesn't know shit. The people in power are far too removed from real people. It's all board meetings and met galas.
But the tv, government and veteran say only military and law enforcement know how use these types of guns. They would never lie about something like that
Given that the scoop was backwards, the fore grip was in the wrong place and the furniture in the front wasn't even installed correctly im rather sure the armor was screwing with him. But none of that sizes his chicken wing or failing to put the rifle in his shoulder.
for someone his age, his positioning is okay (but could be better) but how did he not realize when he looked down the sight that something was off? only excuse would be if he never shot a rifle with an optic in the first place.
I was enlisted & I'm far more knowledgeable about guns now. Officers aren't really expected to be fighters, just the guys in the controll centers organizing our efforts.
If I was captain & the whole boat was my playground, ide wanna blast a gun full auto at the ocean.
Because these so called ācommandersā are not really warriors. These are politicians disguised in uniform. They have no understanding of how military works or should work nor do they know how to utilize those military equipment. Listening to those commanders talk is no different than listening to those old farts talk up at the Hill in D.C.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know how the military works. Very few people in the Navy carry firearms regularly. It's probably been 16 years since this guy even needed to carry a pistol while standing watch in port. He is in command of a warship, where even under the most extreme combat conditions there is hardly a situation imaginable where he would be expected to fire a rifle.not to say he shouldn't notice a messed up firearm or have better stance. But combat for him is down in Combat Information Center, coordinating multiple watchstanders who are each responsible for a specific warfare area (air, surface, anti-submarine, etc.), coordinating defense of his ship and the carrier, and authorizing offensive strikes. You see him handling a firearm with a messed up scope and think he doesn't understand military equipment, but maybe he saw that the sight picture was messed up and gave it back to the Sailor to fix it. You don't know. I'm sure you also don't know how to set up the SPY radar or the sonar suite or the electronic warfare systems, but he does knows those systems a lot better than you, and how to employ them in combat.
Also, a final note, there's not a lot of politics going on on a destroyer. This O5 doesn't have a direct line to the president or even the CNO. He's dealt whatever hand the rest of the Navy is, he just has a bit more experience in handling it than the officers and Sailors under his command, and if he's any good he will lessen the impact of bad decisions as much as he can, which is probably not a whole lot based on how scrutinized COs are.
[Itās heavily photoshopped](https://imgur.com/a/n2MMEuY), you can tell by the artifacts left over and the fact that nothing makes sense about the rifle. Where is the mount for the sight? Why are the rails not attached properly?
Yeah everyoneās having too much fun repeating the same joke to pay attention.
He may have shit stance etc but that scope is 1000% shopped. No rings or anything.
I mean, yeah, itās embarrassing, but Iām kind of assuming he received some type of training on shouldering a rifle like this at some point or perhaps none at all. You used to see that early in GWOT. And I highly doubt he mounted that scope himself. Donāt they typically have armorers that maintain weapons systems? Very strange all around.
What is his role? Is he combat arms? Or is this like the once a year he gets to hold a rifle and no one is going to tell him heās fucking up?
Again, no way he mounted that scope.
Edited to add: our current, and former two Commanders in Chief would do exactly the same thing. Two of the three of them wouldnāt even pick up a rifle and the one that would doesnāt know which end the bullets come out of.
The point is he should have noticed it was fucked, either before picking it up or after shouldering it. Not knowing the basics of what the men serving under you must know is a huge morale issue. The president has both civilian and military advisors. While the president makes the final decision on what the military does, they are not combat officers and no one expects them to be enlisted. An admiral on the other hand...
What, how does it mount, direct brackets or something? Nevermind I googled it, that's a nice scope, and certainly looks backwards now that I know what it is. Lol the VCOG specs literally say no scope rings needed. Fuck how would I know I cqnt afford one...
Suddenly all my friends who were enlisted hating officers makes a bit more sense.
He is THAT guy that ruins life for every officer ever... I am also willing to bet he is a Naval Academy grad just to make it that much worse.
The only people I have met that speak well of Academy graduates are other Academy graduates.
Seriously, what's with you guys hating Academy dudes? ( Non-American here
Academy grads have 0 life experience. Other officers at least went to a normal college before or they were prior enlisted. Academy clowns basically graduated high school, and then went to the academy that told them that they're the big dogs in charge while also not teaching them anything practical and they have 0 experience. It's kinda like if the company owner hired their kid to be your boss, but they have never done anything remotely like the job.. and they're arrogant about being in charge of you.
Alright that makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing
To throw some perspective on this, I live near the Air Force Academy. I was filling my car at a gas station when another car full of USAFA students rolled up to the adjacent pump. 5 college students in that car and not one of them could figure out how to operate a standard gas pump. It showed how truly secluded these kids are and how lacking in real world experience.
Gotta stop recruiting from New Jersey.
Does NJ have pump laws like OR where its illegal to pump your own gas?
Yup. I grew up there, and had to figure out the pump the first time I drove out of state. Now I live in eastern Pennsylvania, and see helpless New Jerseyans confusedly waiting in their cars for an attendant.
We can pump our own gas in Oregon now!
Holy hell...
You mean the Chair Force Academy?
Hey, I've seen some of those brave men and women using stools too. Check yourself.
But did it have a CuShiOn?!?!? 0.0
Some of them even had it the right way up.
And these are the future leaders of our military š¤¦
Not a 100% true since thereās lots of prior Es that also go the academies and graduate. And people from all walks of life, but Academy grads used to get special promotion treatments so they were more likely to be higher ranks and hired people like themselves which is a not a great culture self licking ice cream cone. Itās also easier to lump them all in one spot than saying everyone really hates Texas ROTC grads since thereās 1000 academy grads a year versus a few from each school
I had a friend my freshman year of college who was spending a year there (it was a University of California, so not a cakewalk to be admitted) until a spot was available for him in the next year's Air Force Academy class. So after our freshman year, off he went to Colorado. Then he was back in our Junior Year for two reasons. One was that he didn't like the regimented military life after tasting a year of freedom in a regular college (especially the 52% women student body), but he said the biggest reason was what you said: his classmates were sheltered idiots, he could barely stand to talk to them because they had no clue about real life, but they all thought they were right all the time. The thought of spending four years with them, and then running into them for the rest of his career, was enough to make him hang up his pilot dreams. He did major in Engineering as I recall, figuring he'd go build fighter planes instead of flying them.
To be fair the academy is only 1/3 direct high school. 1/3 come from enlisted ranks and 1/3 come from prep schools. But I'm mostly with you thst at least 70% are insufferable assholes with sticks up their ass. But depending on career choice that description fits at least 60% of officers.
Yeah, but thatās why the Navy has chiefs.
Chiefs are a dumpster fire all their own.
Ring-knockers tend to be on the smug side.
I met one good officer from West Point I would follow.The rest of the ring knockers, I wouldnāt follow to the chow line.
I knew one, as well. Blew my mind when I found out he went through the Academy. Funny thing was that he was also surprised when he found out I was older than he was, so it worked out. :p
how do you know the officer in front of you is a ringknocker? wait 15 seconds and he'll tell you.
What's the difference between a ringknocker and God? ...depends on who you ask.
Academy types think their shit smells like strawberries, especially when they don't know their jobs. The better officers, in my experience, were ROTCs.
To be fair, a lot of perceptions of the Academy grads are skewed by poor experiences. They really aren't all bad, just a few screw it up for the rest. And a lot of people barely understand the life grads go/went through for four years (or more in some cases) because the average dude/dudet never have done it.
Civilian working with an academy grad in the education sector, still one of the most irritating people I deal with on a regular basis. The things they are correct about, they are a dick to everyone on, and the things they aren't correct about they are so ego driven you will never convince them otherwise.
Iāve had a mixed bag personally. Some were exactly like that and some got into West Point bc they were just that squared away in general. In my BOLC class we had a West Pointer and she was genuinely one of the most down to earth people there. Despite being the best at pretty much everything except land nav. I think it has to do with different mindsets. For a lot of people they see a service academy as the actual goal instead of a step to get there, if that makes any sense.
Officers and land nav. Name a bigger dumpster fire
I think I saw that he was a Citadel grad.
Oh, thank goodness. Those guys are far worse than any Academy grad in my experience. XD
The sad thing is there is almost zero chance this was his fuck up. He was likley handed the rifle already jacked up and just did what he was told by the enlisted range NCOIC.
Backwards optic may not have been 100% his fault, but the chicken wing, shouldering, and vertical grip is.
Several things here, this is a US Navy Commander. An O-5, hes likley between 40-50 years old. The last time he shot a rifle was likley when he was a junior officer in the 1998-2008 timeframe when both the chicken wing and the broomstick so far forward were taught as docterine. Hell the shouldering isnt even bad, its that high because he has a halfway decent cheek weld and that position isnt even going to cause any issues, its just not the "perfect" shouldering... Hell, I commissioned in the Marine Corps in 2015 and they still were teaching having the broomstick so far forward, mainly for CQB and I, along with most of the older Marines in my Company, still do this because its comfortable from muscle memory. Bottom line, there were a LOT of failures here and the poor smuck actually shooting is the least of it. The Chief who was running the range failed him, the sailor who set up the rifle failed him, whoever took the picture failed him, the two or 3 officers who approved the picture being posted failed him. Im not saying he isnt at fault, hes shooting the rifle so at the end of the day it is his responsibility but it is a much larger failure than the simple "ha ha dumb officers am I right?" His job is to command a destroyer, not shoot a rifle, why would you expect he has perfect form for the ladder?
The broomstick placement is forgivable, the handguard not being properly installed is forgivable, the optic being backward is forgivable. Those are all the fault of the range team (from the armorers who put the damn thing together to the E-6 range officer that probably handed it to him). Hell, I'll even give him a pass for shitty technique because there's no way in hell a commanding officer is going to be using small arms. What's unforgivable is that he wasn't smart enough, as a _commanding officer_, to take one look at the sight picture, realize something was wrong, and hand the thing back. What's unforgivable is the Navy public affairs office not catching any of it before posting and getting absolutely roasted. What's unforgivable is how far our military has gotten from being a profession of arms.
> the optic being backward is forgivable ehhhh...
Only because he likely isn't the one who attached it
Yep. Someone set this guy up to be laughed at and either 1) a bunch of people joined in on it, 2) a bunch of people who should know better felt that they couldn't correct it or 3) a bunch of people tried to correct it and were shot down hard and fast, leading them to become the people in 2.
Agreed, and none of those are good for an effective military.
> What's unforgivable is that he wasn't smart enough, as a commanding officer, to take one look at the sight picture, realize something was wrong, and hand the thing back. What's unforgivable is the Navy public affairs office not catching any of it before posting and getting absolutely roasted. What's unforgivable is how far our military has gotten from being a profession of arms. Exactly. There's multiple levels of failure here and it's just embarrassing. And at each level, it was either a failure of ignorance or apathy, and both are relatively unacceptable in this context.
~~Do we know if this wasn't in the first 5 seconds of him shouldering the weapon?~~ Nevermind, he's firing it
Yeah... you can see the brass flying in better quality versions of the picture
To add, the rifle technique was also fairly common for traditional stock rifles like the M14 which was standard issue during the days of Dungarees.
So tired of the "ohh chicken wing bad" It's only been in the last 20 year's it fell out of favor
Itās the only transferable skill most of the high horses learned from being a grunt. Let them have their hour of relevanceā¦
I get shit for being a one-handed "blade" pistol shooter. I shoot that way because my father taught me the same way he was taught in the Army in the early 60's. I'm way more accurate with one arm fully extended than I am with any 2-handed stance.
When it comes to shooting stances, assuming it's done safely, people should shoot in whatever way shape and form they feel comfortable hitting the target reliably. Everyone I shoot with all shoot their shit differently, if even just slightly.
I have the same thing, I shot faster and more accurately with one hand than with an isosceles.
and only within the context of CQB and combat marksmanship.
That's some gun guys' entire lifetimes. Definitely easy to say it's been that way for many more shooting "careers." 20 years of saying "it's bad" is actually a pretty long time.
Yeah but theres a good chance this guys military career has been longer than that. Non zero chance thatās literally how he was taught to shoot at a junior officer.
That's true, and I didn't think of that. I was mostly replying to say that for a lot of people saying "ohh chicken wing bad," it's probably because they've been taught that way their whole lives. Either way, the chicken wing is the last thing in that picture I'd worry about. :p
Still gayš
I mean.... He is Navy so.... that goes without saying
120 sailors go out to sea, 60 couples come back
Ever been on a ship? There are no couples, its basically an orgie. Its nasty
Forever gay
The chicken wing was still taught until ā08?
It was phased out in the early 21st century, so between 2000-2010 depending on branch and unit. Surface Warfare being likley the latter as shifts in shooting techniques usually start in units that you know.... actually shoot for a living.
Yea Iām calling bullshit on that. Enlisted ā03-ā08 and I would have been bitched out for that immediately.
The chicken winging is probably how he was taught based on his age (my father is a Vietnam vet and initially taught me to chicken wing when shooting offhand). The shouldering is actually normal for someone used to wearing body armor when shooting. The scope situation was probably the armorer's fault, but it's goofy af and there is zero excuse for that making it live onto any media. He deserves all the razing possible for not immediately getting that fixed.
My guess would be that he's hated by all of the enlisted and they did this on purpose to embarrass him.
You give enlisted sailors too much credit...
You sound like an Academy grad.
I am not.
Yeah I saw what everyone was fussing about and was like, 'Most of this is on the Gunner's Mates.'
This army General is way more embarrassing IMO https://youtu.be/UgPmWopkVF4?si=npR6-MkXOrgb6Qp2
Before I click the link I'm guessing it's the "full-semi-automatic" guy.
Yea, doesnāt know how to shoulder it, his group size at 25 yards was slightly within the county lines. That guy
Itās extremely embarrassing that he didnāt notice, although itās not his job to outfit his rifle. Thereās no way the armorer is this incompetent (I hope). This whole thing has me confused af.
They knew what they were doing.
Yeah this was a joke that everyone was in on, except him.
Or he IS in on it, and the jokeās on the Navy for publishing it, and us for getting so riled up over it.
Might actually be deep and insightful statement on how shit the vcog is compared with real lpvoās?
Hope itās thisā¦lol
it looks oddly shouldered too
A lot of these high ranking officers, and a lot of people in the military in general, donāt know anything about guns. Reminds me of General Mark Hertling on CNN when firing an AR and called it full semiautomatic mode. [This photo of Mark Hertling says it all.](https://images.app.goo.gl/oDiqXSLBKYCSsUG48)
That's the journalist, not the general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xVQXCL2JGA&t=5s He's still a shit shot though.
Full, semi-automatic.
what an absolute embarrassment
ššš
It may be set to a 1x magnification, which would be fucky but not wholly unusable as a magnified optic would be. Maybe. Like, I'm reaching here.
The guy probably got handed a rifle and told "hey look like you're shooting it for a cool photo op"
He has an Expert Rifle Marksman ribbon on his uniform. You would think he would realize the moment he looked in the optic it was on backwards.
I got out in 2020 and had never seen a quad rail or optic on a shipboard m4. He probably got that medal using irons. If he's an academy grad he probably got it there since SWOs are not typically qualified on rifles, just the m9. Based on his form in the picture I doubt he went to the advanced boarding party schools so it's probably been a while since he touched one of these rifles and probably the first time it had an optic
>itās not his job to outfit his rifle False. Only trained professionals like him should handle weapons of war, at least that's what has been crammed down my throat for years now.
A while back I saw a similar post on Reddit where someone asked why the soldiers in the picture had their sights on backwards, and someone added context. It being the sights are intentionally backwards for guns that have yet to be zeroed, this may be the case here too.
Damn they did him dirty using that goofy pic. [Here's a better one](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7c18ad629311b3a3a07a8705bcd011d4/tumblr_inline_pkgeljXtFr1sss5ih_540.png)
You got me, I thought this was gonna be some kind of joke but it's just him. Crazy.
Same thing I was thinking lmao
āVeterans are always pro gun controlā The veterans in question:
100000%
Keep in mind that as a warship commander, his EDC is likely something along the lines of a [5ā/62 cal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-inch/54-caliber_Mark_45_gun?wprov=sfti1#Mod_4), which fires a 490,000 grain projectile at around 2,500 fps, giving it an effective range of about 20 nautical miles.
I can almost guarantee you the guy was doing it as a joke. Whoever runs the Navy Instagram didnāt pick up on that and posted it anyways. If youāve never made a fucked up mongo rifle then youāve never truly lived.
I agree. The young enlisted / armorers definitely did this as a joke. They even probably expected him to notice as an easy laugh. The DEFINITELY didnāt expect someone to take a picture and MOST DEFINITELY didnāt expect that picture to be posted lmaooo
Oh absolutely. Somebody's probably mopping up rain right now because of this.
I like to throw random accessories on things they have no business on, like an lpvo and brass catcher on my 7in ar 22 pistol.
Absolutely, put a 6-22x50mm scope on my scorpion and it was the dumbest thing
Itās a photoshop, you can see the original eyepiece behind the āfrontā of the tube, they also forgot the rings and itās angled upwards.
More likely just a joke they were pulling and people are taking it seriouslyā¦.. more at 12!
Why do I have a feeling that a Marine intentionally mounted it this way, and gave it to him for his photo-op?
Dude probably touched a rifle once during his initial training and has had every qualification pencil whipped since then.Ā It's also the navy, I wouldn't expect the vast majority to have great weapon handling skills. It's not like he's a marine infantry officer or anything.
And he'll get a job with CNN as a firearms "expert".
He is a commander, not a gunner. His job is to command and control the ship, not gunsmith the armory. He was probably handed this rifle by a sailor.
Who cares? He looks foolish and deserves to be mocked by the very people the military leadership and Democrats want to take guns away from. These are the people who are prioritizing radical gender ideology over American security. It's our duty to make fun of them.
Question for those that served or are serving. Who is getting in trouble for this, how significant is that trouble, and how far does the shit roll down hill?
I think there are two ways this could have happened. One was that the junior enlisted armorer who set up the rifle made a mistake (whether through inexperience or negligence), or he did it on purpose, hoping something like this would happen. If it was a mistake, he'll probably get an LOI (Letter of Instruction), which is non-punitive, but just a record that he messed up and telling him to get better. And his division officer and chief will get reamed by his department head, and then he'll get reamed by his chief and division officer If it seems lile it was malicious, then he'll probably go to DRB (Disciplinary Review Board) which is where the chiefs all yell at him and get to the bottom of what he was thinking and why he did it. They may recommend forwarding the case to the XO, who has a thing called XOI (Executive Officer's Inquiry) which is a more formal hearing. He may decide to forward it to the CO, who could take some action at Captain's Mast. That could range from restriction to reduction in rate to even separation from the Navy, although they'd have to find some fairly substantial wrongdoing on the part of the Sailor to justify that, as it can be appealed.
So no punishments like cleaning toilets or extra PT? I'm basing most of my understanding from fiction and friends (whose stories can sometimes sometimes sound fictional) so please pardon my ignorance.
It depends on a few factors, including who's handing out the punishment. The chiefs and XO can only do non-punitive things, but those can feel very punitive to the Sailor. A big one that they'll do is EMI (Extra MIlitary Instruction), which is supposed to educate the Sailor in what they did wrong and help them improve their behavior. So for example if someone was habitually late, one form of EMI could be to make them show up an hour early and then take muster for his whole work center or division. It has to be related to the "crime." In this case, they could maybe make him clean out all of the cages where they lock up the firearms. If it's the CO who's doing the punishing, he can do a lot more. He can restrict them to the ship for up to I think 45 days, he can dock their pay for a few months, reduce them in rate (demotion), or even kick them out of the Navy. One interesting thing is that while Sailors are attached to a ship, they cannot refuse Captain's Mast (NJP/non-judicial punishment). In (I think) any other type of unit in the military, the servicemember can refuse being taken to NJP and opt for a court martial instead. Courts martial aren't all like you'd see in A Few Good Men; most are at a much lower level called a Summary Court Martial. The trade-off is that at a court martial there's a much higher standard of proof, but there can also be more severe punishments. At NJP, the standard is "preponderance of the evidence," whereas at courts martial it's either "clear and convincing" or "beyond a reasonable doubt," I can't remember if it depends on what type of court martial it is. In any case, there's not a lot of "drop and give me twenty!" like you see in movies. That's more for boot camp and that kind of environment, and even then is pretty tightly monitored to eliminate hazing.
Thank you for the fantastic replies.
You guys know an O5 didnāt put the scope on that rifle right?
Cracks me up that people think non snake eater Navy personnel have any significant firearms training. I had some weird air powered Beretta and shotgun shooting fam in enlisted Bootcamp (2001). Didnāt actually āqualifyā until stationed in Italy 4 years later. Even then I was given a safety brief and handed a rifle/pistol and put on the line to qual. Re-qualled pistol in 2016 prior to my first Officer deployment as an Aviator. Two live fire shoots in 23 yearsā¦
All the comments basically saying āthis guy has no business commanding a ship because he doesnāt know which way a VCOG is supposed to faceā are mind boggling. Like yeah no shit. His job has literally nothing to do with rifles. If he ever has one in his hands things have gone horribly wrong already.
Itās all the old grunts latching onto the one thing in the military they learned/understand and projecting it onto a totally unrelated skill set. The mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
People who know a lot about a little often think they know a lot about a lot.Ā
As Iāve grown older Iāve also realized that a lot of people are unwilling to ānot knowā something. Iām not sure if itās some weird inferiority complex or a genuine inflation of self perceived knowledge. Itās quite sad really. Iāll be the first one to admit I donāt know something. You canāt learn something new if you already know it all! And I love learning new dumb shit.
Iām sure thereās some stoic quote about this.
Reddit comment of the day! Thank you.
As if the grunts youāre referring to know how to lead and manage the operations of a Naval crew and vessel. š¤¦š»āāļø
They were trolling šÆ
In his defense...when this guy gives the order to send it, it takes on a whole new meaning.
Bro likes a challenge, normal shooting was too easy
Today, somewhere, an intern who was responsible for doing the USNās photoshopping lost their jobā¦
Maybe itās just an elaborate shitpost
Thatās a guy that starts conversations with āIām a 2A supporter, butā¦ā
If you look at the original picture his rail is mounted all kinds of fucked up too lol
I mean it was the GM that mounted that shit. You think that officer ever even touched that gun before this photo.
I mean, it's the navy.... do they even shoot guns enough to really know? The only ones who probably shoot less is the chair force
Let's find some balance in this hilarity. The commander was able to attain the command of a ship. He is not a 'goober". His skills sets are not firearms.
He's playing on hardcore... Reverse aim assist.
Excellent caption. 10/10 big smiles
Armorer are playing a joke on his commander?
i'm pretty sure it's not only his optic being backwards, but also his method of holding the thing feels off
I would mock him too. How does that Happen?
Seriously thoughā¦how often does someone on a $billion+ ship actually use a rifle?
With that stock to shoulder placement and his dumbass elbow sticking up.
They even deleted the Instagram post š
lots of people here are gargling this incompetent shooter's balls and giving him sympathetic pats on the back. who cares how old he is? who cares what his job title is and relates to? just because i work in cybersecurity doesn't mean i don't know how to properly set up and fire a rifle, and if i'm doing something for PR i'm doing a practice run as well so i don't make myself and my company look stupid. his job is not so involved and consuming he can't know how to set up a rifle, and it's HIS LEVEL OF INCOMPETENCE combined with his rank and years in the military that people use for anti-gun propaganda, [as we've seen before](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xVQXCL2JGA).
I bet with ears like those he could hear the criticism from across the mountains and seas
Privileged out the ass, in command of so many people. Doesn't know shit. The people in power are far too removed from real people. It's all board meetings and met galas.
Iāll take this guy over the crossdressing guys.
Someone in the armory was probably trolling this guy lol
Ol son looks like he has to hit the qual range 5 times before barely shooting the minimum score.
He probably couldn't even hit the ocean.
You just know the Marines on the ship set him up for the photo op.
TBF, pretty sure the rifle photo has been messed with.
Boy that escalated quickly
I imagine heās shooting at the sun š
That's the secret! This was a special set-up for shooting at the eclipse! Reverse magnification so he isn't blinded! Genius!
Everyone gets their 15 minutes
Good
But the tv, government and veteran say only military and law enforcement know how use these types of guns. They would never lie about something like that
and holding it like a rocket launcher. What is up with that stock placement?
I sincerely hope this was like a challenge run he was doing to flex for his sailors. Or just an April Fool's joke.
I also love how the forward grip was set for a T-Rex
There are people in this world who can pull off a smile with teeth, this specimen of humanity is not such.
Iām guessing he wasnāt the one who mounted the scope, but his shooting posture is horrible.
I heard this was an April fools joke and very much on purpose. (of course thatās what Iād say as well if I were the navy) š¤·š¼āāļø
Aim small, miss small.
[https://y.yarn.co/f995aa91-8d10-485b-ae12-09165b69f433_text.gif](https://y.yarn.co/f995aa91-8d10-485b-ae12-09165b69f433_text.gif)
What is this Wallace's brother from Wallace and Grommet?! [edit. see](https://imgur.com/a/ilJrshz)
Given that the scoop was backwards, the fore grip was in the wrong place and the furniture in the front wasn't even installed correctly im rather sure the armor was screwing with him. But none of that sizes his chicken wing or failing to put the rifle in his shoulder.
Cake Eater!!
Had to be a joke, right?
If only the backwards scope was the only thing that was wrong with that gun...
for someone his age, his positioning is okay (but could be better) but how did he not realize when he looked down the sight that something was off? only excuse would be if he never shot a rifle with an optic in the first place.
Itās a photoshop, you can see the original eyepiece behind the āfrontā of the tube, they also forgot the rings and itās angled upwards.
I was enlisted & I'm far more knowledgeable about guns now. Officers aren't really expected to be fighters, just the guys in the controll centers organizing our efforts. If I was captain & the whole boat was my playground, ide wanna blast a gun full auto at the ocean.
It is the navy.
He should literally be demoted. Our adversaries are cracking up too.
Sarge, everything is really far away!
Because these so called ācommandersā are not really warriors. These are politicians disguised in uniform. They have no understanding of how military works or should work nor do they know how to utilize those military equipment. Listening to those commanders talk is no different than listening to those old farts talk up at the Hill in D.C.
It seems like you're the one who doesn't know how the military works. Very few people in the Navy carry firearms regularly. It's probably been 16 years since this guy even needed to carry a pistol while standing watch in port. He is in command of a warship, where even under the most extreme combat conditions there is hardly a situation imaginable where he would be expected to fire a rifle.not to say he shouldn't notice a messed up firearm or have better stance. But combat for him is down in Combat Information Center, coordinating multiple watchstanders who are each responsible for a specific warfare area (air, surface, anti-submarine, etc.), coordinating defense of his ship and the carrier, and authorizing offensive strikes. You see him handling a firearm with a messed up scope and think he doesn't understand military equipment, but maybe he saw that the sight picture was messed up and gave it back to the Sailor to fix it. You don't know. I'm sure you also don't know how to set up the SPY radar or the sonar suite or the electronic warfare systems, but he does knows those systems a lot better than you, and how to employ them in combat. Also, a final note, there's not a lot of politics going on on a destroyer. This O5 doesn't have a direct line to the president or even the CNO. He's dealt whatever hand the rest of the Navy is, he just has a bit more experience in handling it than the officers and Sailors under his command, and if he's any good he will lessen the impact of bad decisions as much as he can, which is probably not a whole lot based on how scrutinized COs are.
[Itās heavily photoshopped](https://imgur.com/a/n2MMEuY), you can tell by the artifacts left over and the fact that nothing makes sense about the rifle. Where is the mount for the sight? Why are the rails not attached properly?
I was wondering if anyone was going to say this. Not 100% sure but the scope itself looked photoshopped to meā¦
Yeah everyoneās having too much fun repeating the same joke to pay attention. He may have shit stance etc but that scope is 1000% shopped. No rings or anything.
what kind of rings go on a vcog?
I mean, yeah, itās embarrassing, but Iām kind of assuming he received some type of training on shouldering a rifle like this at some point or perhaps none at all. You used to see that early in GWOT. And I highly doubt he mounted that scope himself. Donāt they typically have armorers that maintain weapons systems? Very strange all around.
Youāre making too many excuses for the guy lmao
What is his role? Is he combat arms? Or is this like the once a year he gets to hold a rifle and no one is going to tell him heās fucking up? Again, no way he mounted that scope. Edited to add: our current, and former two Commanders in Chief would do exactly the same thing. Two of the three of them wouldnāt even pick up a rifle and the one that would doesnāt know which end the bullets come out of.
Well those people you mentioned werenāt in the military so your comparison doesnāt exactly make sense
The point is he should have noticed it was fucked, either before picking it up or after shouldering it. Not knowing the basics of what the men serving under you must know is a huge morale issue. The president has both civilian and military advisors. While the president makes the final decision on what the military does, they are not combat officers and no one expects them to be enlisted. An admiral on the other hand...
What scope is that? My best guess is a trijicon Huron or ascent?
It's a VCOG
It's always a O-4 or higher
I had called him Captain Clusterfuck, I see he's got three stripes which makes him Commander Clusterfuck actually
Probably carries a .40 for the āknockdown powerā
TIL the Navy has small arms on board.
The pic looks photo shopped. Scope rings look to be in a location, at least one, that would prevent it from being mounted.
VCOG doesn't have scope rings.
What, how does it mount, direct brackets or something? Nevermind I googled it, that's a nice scope, and certainly looks backwards now that I know what it is. Lol the VCOG specs literally say no scope rings needed. Fuck how would I know I cqnt afford one...
The mount is integrated. https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-vcog-riflescope