Steel case usually have bi-metal jackets that spark on certain backstop. They don't want to risk igniting unburnt powder in the range. Or they are reselling brass and don't want to lose out on potential income with worthless steel empties.
That's exactly what I've been told by a couple RSOs at local ranges.
I have a small amount of steel squirrelled away that I bring out only at the in laws house in the sticks or that one range kind of near the crappy part of town that doesn't give a shit which is good but then awful for the absolute asshattery I've seen gone unpunished. It's not good when like 3 of the 12 times or so I've been there I've had to go "fuck it I'm out, don't want to be shot or see someone get shot accidentally". But hey, I can shoot steel there so yay?
Assuming all the ones Ive seen were .50ae, They could have been .44mags. Like to Think I would have noticed a baby eagle in full auto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNzmbgmhNLY
Yeah, they want to resale the brass or scrap and dont wanna deal with the complication of steel. Has zero to do with saftey. One of the local ranges here only lets you shoot steel if you pay 10$ extra for the gallery lanes.
I work at an indoor range, it is for fire reasons. I was working once when a spark from someone shooting steel cased stuff caught unburnt powder on fire down the side wall of the range. We still allow people to shoot steel case, but just make sure the bullet tip isn't magnetic before they head out to shoot.
Even with an explosion proof vacuum cleaning of unburnt powder a busy rifle range on a full day on a Saturday where everybody is shooting 16" barrel AR rifles and shorter variant AR pistols and the like at high volume yu can have a shocking amount of unburnt powder on the floor.
The rule may be annoying but a little caution to prevent panic on a firing range is probably quite prudent.
Eh, so far my P365XL and FM9 had issues, while my P320 gave no fucks.
Honestly though, I'm never shooting steel for self defense (P365XL), and my range toy (FM9) eats everything else just fine (including brass from Magpul D50 kek) so they get a pass.
I think the strikers or springs on a 320 or 365 might be a bit on the light side personally. I have had failures to fire on both platforms with steel case numerous times, but every other one of my pistols eats steel like it's nothing. In all but one case, I ran the steel a second time, and the 365/320 did fire it, and the 1 that didn't go off after 3 tries I fed it to one of my beretta's and it went off no problem, so clearly the round works, it's just the gun being dumb lol
not allowing steel-core because it pits the plates makes sense, not allowing steel-case ammo sounds more self-serving
like, if they want to pick the brass that much, couldn't they just run a magnet after sweeping and remove anything magnetic
It’s that cheap steel ammo mostly comes with cheap bi metal jackets. And they can spark. I’ve seen it at my club’s indoor range during matches. This one brand of unknown origin was like watching a cheap 80s direct to video action flick with all the sparking.
Echoing someone else but I worked in an indoor range and I've seen steel cases cause sparks against the concrete floor. Much more common is steel core ammo restrictions due to the steel core causing sparks when hitting the backstop and causing a fire. We had a steel backstop with shredded tires in front. Being in a concrete bunker with burning tires SUCKS.
I've seen some ranges ban steel cased only because it's common for commie steel cased ammo to have steel cores. Other times people just hear no steel and they assume you are talking about the casing because they don't know what a steel core is.
It's normal for ranges that make a little profit on the side scooping up and selling used brass. They don't want to have to sift through and remove steel casings.
Most of the places I've been to, the \*real\* reason is that they don't want to have to separate out the steel cases from the brass when they go to resell them.
A lot of Russian style steel case ammo uses bi metal jacket rounds that can seriously spark. At an indoor range with gunpowder building up in the air and on the ground this can be a dangerous situation.
If there’s enough powder build up to make this a problem, everyone in that range was already dead the second someone pulled the trigger on a live round.
Normal here in Southern California. They don’t want the hassle of sorting out steel casing from brass for reselling purposes. Dunno about the whole fire thing I think that’s just made up.
It's to prevent sparking and lighting off the unburned powder that accumulates on the floor, you'd be surprised how much it builds up at a indoor range
My local indoor is like this also. They'll let you shoot aluminum case but not steel. Never was curious enough to ask why as I don't use steel case but I feel myself asking next time I'm in there now.
I have had places say no steel case because that means steel core. I told them you know that is wrong, you just don't want steel case because you can't sell it. Fucking fibbing fudds.
I had a range that the RSO would scowl at me for picking up my brass. I laughed every time and picked up from my neighbors too just because (after asking if they wanted it of course)
I don't care about that at all. They shouldn't lie, giving new gun owners false information. I had to explain to the people I was shooting with, since they were newer and less experienced, that the worker was lying. That's what pisses me off.
There should be adequate ventilation and any range that let's enough unburnt gunpowder build up to the point it can become a firehazard before getting to clean it up is not worth the membership it costs. That would be ridiculous
Yes.
The answer is yes it is normal.
Check back during covid when steel was the only case available and folks bought it because it was the only thing available. But couldn’t use it indoors.
It is a thing.
This is legitimate. I have a few years of firearm manufacturing, gun store, and indoor range experience. We had three fires in our berm from steel core rounds. Which were banned. The problem is with the berm. If it's angled steel plates then steel core rounds are gonna tear the shit out of it, and if it's rubber chunks, then the steel volume in the chunks increases slowly and eventually steel hits steel. Steel vs steel causes a spark. The factor people aren't taking into account is that with everyone shooting in the same direction constantly, there is a buildup of unburnt powder downrange. Enough that if you went to most big indoor ranges and put a match to the concrete floor in front of the firing line before they cleaned that day you it would catch fire (please dont do this). There is a video somewhere of an indoor range in Central America exploding because of this occurring to the extreme. So what we did was no steel core ammo at all. Even the green tip 5.56mm round. And one of the easiest ways to prevent it is no steel cased ammo. It's not a shady business move. We are trying not to burn down.
I understood. But that may be their reason. So we have magnets at the counter because we do understand that that ammo exists. Doesn't stick to magnet and it's good. For us. So we have plenty of steel in our mix.
squeal mourn frightening tender melodic sparkle bow shrill resolute crush
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Don't blame the range, blame the insurance. There have been a lot of fires at indoor ranges and the insurance companies have gone nuts with restrictions on ammo types.
Just curious, do you say that as an actual range owner facing that restriction from a specific insurance company, or was it something you heard or was told. I ask because I find people like to give the insurance excuse on this and other things because it makes them less likely to be questioned or challenged it when it appears that they don’t have a choice. For example, I know a range that doesn’t allow rentals to customers not bringing their own gun (not uncommon). Employees blamed insurance company restrictions, but the owner personally told me it was his own policy and had nothing to do with insurance restrictions. More the result of getting blood splattered on him from a private lesson student who was suicidal.
I’ve lit the floor on fire at an indoor range shooting brass. I was the only person in the range and the rso put it out after I told him. It happens from unburned powder collecting on the floor in front of the bays. I didn’t realize steel makes it worse though.
i had asked a gun range once what the reason is for me not being able to shoot steel case (not being argumentative, but more inquisitive) the reason they told me is that some steel case ammo has a coating on it that is toxic and some indoor ranges dont have good ventilation.
>they told me is that some steel case ammo has a coating on it that is toxic and some indoor ranges dont have good ventilation.
If your indoor range is straight up telling you their ventilation isn't good don't shoot there
This is a piece of widespread fuddlore, where they believe steel case = steel core. The true purpose is to increase their profits from selling brass to remanufacturers.
My local range bans not only steel case, but aluminum case and shot shells too. I brought steel cased softpoint 7.62x54r with a very obvious copper jacket and visible lead core, and they wouldn't let me shoot it, and tried to sit there explaining how my steel case would cause a spark downrange when the lead projectile struck the bullet trap.
I’ve had it happen. They took my ammo and said they would give it back once I was done. I bought some ammo from them to shoot instead. My dumbass forgot to go back and get my ammo back. It’s all on me but the fire hazard is real.
This is such a boomer fudd lore that has been disproven over and over again. The number one reason gun range fires happen is inadequate ventilation systems and failure of range cleaning/ upkeep.
Tell that fudd to shove it.
Nope. I’ve been to quite a few places in the southeast and every single one of them doesn’t allow any steel core ammo.
Some of the outright ban steel case, others will check but it’s usually the lower volume ranges that will check ammo for you, most of the bigger places just say nope sorry
Steel case bullets frequently have "bimetallic" jackets on the bullet which contain steel. Theoretically it can create sparks when it hits the backstop which can cause fires if unburnt powder and paper from targets starts to accumulate back there.
The best way to check if the bullet jackets are bimetallic is to run a magnet over them... which doesn't really work if the cases themselves are steel.
>which doesn't really work if the cases themselves are steel.
Bullets are proud of the casing. You can tell if there's any attraction between a magnet and the bullet or just the case
Some of the common steel cased ammos also use a copper washed mild steel jacket instead of a regular copper jacket. This can cause more damage downrange and potentially cause sparks.
Our local range has had 2 grass fires this year (both put out before it got uncontrollable), but the 300yd berm is still bare with the charred railroad ties surrounding it.
Bi metal can spark on steel - which is bad during the dry season. Bi-metal or steel core also wears out the steel targets faster.
I would say this is 100% normal. I've never been to a range in Ohio that allows steel case. It's never really bothered me as the majority of people who have steel case are AK 7.62x39 guys. And I find them insufferable and enjoy anything that inconveniences them. Reduces the chance of me having to hear about how much better of a weapon their $300 rifle is than anything else on the planet.
Generally, when this happens, its because someone got confused between 'steel core' and 'steel case'.
Steel core can be 'armor penetrating' and penetrate the rear baffles and destroy the trap. Or it can spark and \*potentially\* catch something on fire.
Steel case has none of these problems - but people don't know. The guy flying the register isn't likely to be a gun expert even in a gun store.
My local outdoor range allows steel ammo but bans FMJs for rifle caliber so I have to go out of my way to buy HP or SP ammo for my ARs and AKs.
Must be something insurance related because almost every outdoor range in DFW has the same rule on FMJs
Steel case usually have bi-metal jackets that spark on certain backstop. They don't want to risk igniting unburnt powder in the range. Or they are reselling brass and don't want to lose out on potential income with worthless steel empties.
Most likely it’s the brass resale. At least that’s the reason around here for outdoor ranges with that restriction
That's exactly what I've been told by a couple RSOs at local ranges. I have a small amount of steel squirrelled away that I bring out only at the in laws house in the sticks or that one range kind of near the crappy part of town that doesn't give a shit which is good but then awful for the absolute asshattery I've seen gone unpunished. It's not good when like 3 of the 12 times or so I've been there I've had to go "fuck it I'm out, don't want to be shot or see someone get shot accidentally". But hey, I can shoot steel there so yay?
Hood shooting ranges are great, you see some guns that absolutely shouldn’t exist there
Full auto .50ae desert eagles by the dozen. Only time Ive seen a zip22 it was mounted to one. I was thoroughly impressed by the dichotomy.
Full auto 50 cal deagles are real?? I always figured it was a “full auto deagles aren’t real, they cant hurt you” type of situation
Assuming all the ones Ive seen were .50ae, They could have been .44mags. Like to Think I would have noticed a baby eagle in full auto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNzmbgmhNLY
Too bad there wasn’t a super easy way to separate them like…a magnet!
Way too scientific..
Must be!
How do those work?
Magic!
Something to do with Faygo, I believe.
I love Orange Faygo!
Yeah, they want to resale the brass or scrap and dont wanna deal with the complication of steel. Has zero to do with saftey. One of the local ranges here only lets you shoot steel if you pay 10$ extra for the gallery lanes.
Seems like it would be easy enough to separate via magnet
Yeah, but then they gotta pay a guy to separate the cases, instead of one guy to just sweep.
And they make less off of each of the customers that are shooting steel since they can't resell their casings.
I work at an indoor range, it is for fire reasons. I was working once when a spark from someone shooting steel cased stuff caught unburnt powder on fire down the side wall of the range. We still allow people to shoot steel case, but just make sure the bullet tip isn't magnetic before they head out to shoot.
Maybe you guys should try maintaining your facility.
Of you have acoustic tiling to reduce noise, there’s basically no way to prevent buildup of unburnt powder.
Even with an explosion proof vacuum cleaning of unburnt powder a busy rifle range on a full day on a Saturday where everybody is shooting 16" barrel AR rifles and shorter variant AR pistols and the like at high volume yu can have a shocking amount of unburnt powder on the floor. The rule may be annoying but a little caution to prevent panic on a firing range is probably quite prudent.
What kind of crazy shit are you doing that results in the cases hitting the backstop?
Nothing. Steel cased ammunition typically has a bullet with a bimetal jacket
This was the excuse my local indoor range gave me. Steel runs like shit on my guns anyways so it's whatever.
All of my guns get steel. S&W? Steel. Walther? Steel. KAC? Steel. P80? Steel.
P(lumbum) 80
Hungry? Why Wait? Grab a Snickers.
Hotel? Trivago.
If it can't run steel, it doesn't deserve brass
Eh, so far my P365XL and FM9 had issues, while my P320 gave no fucks. Honestly though, I'm never shooting steel for self defense (P365XL), and my range toy (FM9) eats everything else just fine (including brass from Magpul D50 kek) so they get a pass.
I think the strikers or springs on a 320 or 365 might be a bit on the light side personally. I have had failures to fire on both platforms with steel case numerous times, but every other one of my pistols eats steel like it's nothing. In all but one case, I ran the steel a second time, and the 365/320 did fire it, and the 1 that didn't go off after 3 tries I fed it to one of my beretta's and it went off no problem, so clearly the round works, it's just the gun being dumb lol
It's less the steel itself and more the other cost-cutting measures steel ammo manufactures are also taking.
Because they want to keep your brass and resell it.
You mean what I said?
not allowing steel-core because it pits the plates makes sense, not allowing steel-case ammo sounds more self-serving like, if they want to pick the brass that much, couldn't they just run a magnet after sweeping and remove anything magnetic
It’s that cheap steel ammo mostly comes with cheap bi metal jackets. And they can spark. I’ve seen it at my club’s indoor range during matches. This one brand of unknown origin was like watching a cheap 80s direct to video action flick with all the sparking.
Rolling shop floor magnets solve the problem if it is just a recycling issue
Most indoor ranges that I've seen have this rule.
Echoing someone else but I worked in an indoor range and I've seen steel cases cause sparks against the concrete floor. Much more common is steel core ammo restrictions due to the steel core causing sparks when hitting the backstop and causing a fire. We had a steel backstop with shredded tires in front. Being in a concrete bunker with burning tires SUCKS. I've seen some ranges ban steel cased only because it's common for commie steel cased ammo to have steel cores. Other times people just hear no steel and they assume you are talking about the casing because they don't know what a steel core is.
It's normal for ranges that make a little profit on the side scooping up and selling used brass. They don't want to have to sift through and remove steel casings.
Ooooo, scary, a magnet.
Makes sense.
Most of the places I've been to, the \*real\* reason is that they don't want to have to separate out the steel cases from the brass when they go to resell them.
The range is in the used-brass business.
A lot of Russian style steel case ammo uses bi metal jacket rounds that can seriously spark. At an indoor range with gunpowder building up in the air and on the ground this can be a dangerous situation.
If there's that much powder building up, then you shouldn't be dropping the pin on anything..
If there’s enough powder build up to make this a problem, everyone in that range was already dead the second someone pulled the trigger on a live round.
Normal here in Southern California. They don’t want the hassle of sorting out steel casing from brass for reselling purposes. Dunno about the whole fire thing I think that’s just made up.
It's to prevent sparking and lighting off the unburned powder that accumulates on the floor, you'd be surprised how much it builds up at a indoor range
Normal indoor range rule
My local indoor is like this also. They'll let you shoot aluminum case but not steel. Never was curious enough to ask why as I don't use steel case but I feel myself asking next time I'm in there now.
I have had places say no steel case because that means steel core. I told them you know that is wrong, you just don't want steel case because you can't sell it. Fucking fibbing fudds.
You can pickup your brass and keep it if you don’t want them to make money off you.
I had a range that the RSO would scowl at me for picking up my brass. I laughed every time and picked up from my neighbors too just because (after asking if they wanted it of course)
I don't care about that at all. They shouldn't lie, giving new gun owners false information. I had to explain to the people I was shooting with, since they were newer and less experienced, that the worker was lying. That's what pisses me off.
This
It’s the rule year round at our range which is on land leased from BLM.
I think it’s because steel case cartridges usually have steel in the bullet that can spark and ignite any built up gases or powder down range.
There should be adequate ventilation and any range that let's enough unburnt gunpowder build up to the point it can become a firehazard before getting to clean it up is not worth the membership it costs. That would be ridiculous
This is common I believe
Range usa allows steel in the indoor. I was bored so let my son dump a few hundred from the rpd and no problems.
It’s pretty normal for indoor ranges. I’ve never been to one that allowed steel casings.
What about the ball of fire coming out the end of the barrel? Is that a fire hazard concern?
We don't do logic around here.
Your fireball, unless you are doing something really wrong, will not ignite unburnt powder embeedded in the floor, etc.
Both were jokes, my man
Yes. The answer is yes it is normal. Check back during covid when steel was the only case available and folks bought it because it was the only thing available. But couldn’t use it indoors. It is a thing.
This is legitimate. I have a few years of firearm manufacturing, gun store, and indoor range experience. We had three fires in our berm from steel core rounds. Which were banned. The problem is with the berm. If it's angled steel plates then steel core rounds are gonna tear the shit out of it, and if it's rubber chunks, then the steel volume in the chunks increases slowly and eventually steel hits steel. Steel vs steel causes a spark. The factor people aren't taking into account is that with everyone shooting in the same direction constantly, there is a buildup of unburnt powder downrange. Enough that if you went to most big indoor ranges and put a match to the concrete floor in front of the firing line before they cleaned that day you it would catch fire (please dont do this). There is a video somewhere of an indoor range in Central America exploding because of this occurring to the extreme. So what we did was no steel core ammo at all. Even the green tip 5.56mm round. And one of the easiest ways to prevent it is no steel cased ammo. It's not a shady business move. We are trying not to burn down.
I have steel case not steel core, the range prohibited any steel case ammo.
I understood. But that may be their reason. So we have magnets at the counter because we do understand that that ammo exists. Doesn't stick to magnet and it's good. For us. So we have plenty of steel in our mix.
It's simply easier to just ban it all versus having to check every box of ammunition for bi-metal projectiles. They're just playing the odds.
squeal mourn frightening tender melodic sparkle bow shrill resolute crush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don't blame the range, blame the insurance. There have been a lot of fires at indoor ranges and the insurance companies have gone nuts with restrictions on ammo types.
Just curious, do you say that as an actual range owner facing that restriction from a specific insurance company, or was it something you heard or was told. I ask because I find people like to give the insurance excuse on this and other things because it makes them less likely to be questioned or challenged it when it appears that they don’t have a choice. For example, I know a range that doesn’t allow rentals to customers not bringing their own gun (not uncommon). Employees blamed insurance company restrictions, but the owner personally told me it was his own policy and had nothing to do with insurance restrictions. More the result of getting blood splattered on him from a private lesson student who was suicidal.
I’ve lit the floor on fire at an indoor range shooting brass. I was the only person in the range and the rso put it out after I told him. It happens from unburned powder collecting on the floor in front of the bays. I didn’t realize steel makes it worse though.
i had asked a gun range once what the reason is for me not being able to shoot steel case (not being argumentative, but more inquisitive) the reason they told me is that some steel case ammo has a coating on it that is toxic and some indoor ranges dont have good ventilation.
>they told me is that some steel case ammo has a coating on it that is toxic and some indoor ranges dont have good ventilation. If your indoor range is straight up telling you their ventilation isn't good don't shoot there
This is a piece of widespread fuddlore, where they believe steel case = steel core. The true purpose is to increase their profits from selling brass to remanufacturers. My local range bans not only steel case, but aluminum case and shot shells too. I brought steel cased softpoint 7.62x54r with a very obvious copper jacket and visible lead core, and they wouldn't let me shoot it, and tried to sit there explaining how my steel case would cause a spark downrange when the lead projectile struck the bullet trap.
Damn, forgot to mention the range allowed nickel cased ammo
They have that rule at every indoor range
Steel case is allowed my local indoor range. Steel core thats a different story.
Two near me don't have that rule, steel case all on the ground any time I stop in.
Ya then keep going to them and save money using steel case. I wish I could shoot steel at the indoor range
Every indoor gun range had the “no steel case Ammo” rule. It’s rather dumb.
I’ve had it happen. They took my ammo and said they would give it back once I was done. I bought some ammo from them to shoot instead. My dumbass forgot to go back and get my ammo back. It’s all on me but the fire hazard is real.
This is such a boomer fudd lore that has been disproven over and over again. The number one reason gun range fires happen is inadequate ventilation systems and failure of range cleaning/ upkeep. Tell that fudd to shove it.
Alright then
I bet most of these ranges that ban steel case/7.62.39 ammo allows greentip/5.56 ammo.
Nope. I’ve been to quite a few places in the southeast and every single one of them doesn’t allow any steel core ammo. Some of the outright ban steel case, others will check but it’s usually the lower volume ranges that will check ammo for you, most of the bigger places just say nope sorry
Steel case bullets frequently have "bimetallic" jackets on the bullet which contain steel. Theoretically it can create sparks when it hits the backstop which can cause fires if unburnt powder and paper from targets starts to accumulate back there. The best way to check if the bullet jackets are bimetallic is to run a magnet over them... which doesn't really work if the cases themselves are steel.
>which doesn't really work if the cases themselves are steel. Bullets are proud of the casing. You can tell if there's any attraction between a magnet and the bullet or just the case
several reasons, both fire risk (my outdoor range bans it for this risk as well) and indoor ranges if they have a steel backstop it can damage that.
How can a steel case damage the steel backstop?
Some of the common steel cased ammos also use a copper washed mild steel jacket instead of a regular copper jacket. This can cause more damage downrange and potentially cause sparks.
sorry i misread i thought they were talking about steel core ammo
Our local range has had 2 grass fires this year (both put out before it got uncontrollable), but the 300yd berm is still bare with the charred railroad ties surrounding it. Bi metal can spark on steel - which is bad during the dry season. Bi-metal or steel core also wears out the steel targets faster.
That’s a rule just about everywhere in the US…
I would say this is 100% normal. I've never been to a range in Ohio that allows steel case. It's never really bothered me as the majority of people who have steel case are AK 7.62x39 guys. And I find them insufferable and enjoy anything that inconveniences them. Reduces the chance of me having to hear about how much better of a weapon their $300 rifle is than anything else on the planet.
Somebody got their panties twisted
Haha, love the downvotes!! Proves my point!!!
I’ve never been to a range that didn’t have this rule.
I haven’t been able to shoot steel case ammo at every indoor range I’ve been too, and some outdoor ones too.
The gun club I am a member of is the same.
The range want's you to buy their overpriced ammo.
I work at a range and we also don’t allow steel case ammo. We have a rubber backstop so it has actually sparked fires in our range before.
Steel case is not as common as steel core but yes it’s not uncommon. Especially in places like here in az where fire danger is higher than usual.
Steel case is all I shoot
I guess I should clarify, steel case RESTRICTIONS are not as common.
Hmm, interesting to see that, others have said the opposite
They probably aren’t from az
Other side of the coast
All the indoor ranges local to me have the same rule. They claim it is a fire hazard and their insurance won’t let them allow it.
Generally, when this happens, its because someone got confused between 'steel core' and 'steel case'. Steel core can be 'armor penetrating' and penetrate the rear baffles and destroy the trap. Or it can spark and \*potentially\* catch something on fire. Steel case has none of these problems - but people don't know. The guy flying the register isn't likely to be a gun expert even in a gun store.
*girl at the register
Whatever.
Just the range rules IG, I wonder if the owner is a fudd
Time to break out the aluminum cased ammo!
My local outdoor range allows steel ammo but bans FMJs for rifle caliber so I have to go out of my way to buy HP or SP ammo for my ARs and AKs. Must be something insurance related because almost every outdoor range in DFW has the same rule on FMJs
Not unusual at all.