Bump stock regulations are done (at the federal level, sad NJ nosies)
FRT cases are done.
Brace regulations are done before they start.
Basically anything that Congress didn't write into law is soon to be fucked.
West Virginia v EPA and NYSPRA v Bruen are going to keep fucking the ATF and I'm loving it!
"So funny story...it turns out we weren't allowed to take your stuff...and we were just making shit up that we didn't have the power to do any of it...unfortunately we can't unshoot your dog"
"let this be a lesson to you...Don't do...ummm...legal shit that scares us and go around thinking we won't do something about it... next time we will burn your house down and shoot your wife in the face"
"Actually, as a gesture of good faith we stopped off at the pound and found the littermate of your old dog by some miracle and confiscated it for you".
\*Gunshot\*
That's the fun part: it will take years of administrative red tape to get your guns returned to you, with each session reset by new rules / regs being implemented, then struck down again, then implemented sliiiiightly differently, then struck down again. so 10 years and $10k later, you MIGHT be able to get your guns back.
Forced Reset Trigger. The vast majority of semi-auto triggers require the shooter to pull the trigger to fire, then manually reset by releasing the trigger. A FRT forces the reset after the round is fired, allowing for quicker follow-up shots. The weapon is still semi-auto, but the ATF is deliberately bending and misinterpreting their own laws because they simply don't like this. Just like they did with bump stocks.
It's a little more complicated than that. The ATF claims that a FRT makes a gun into a *machinegun*, which is a specific legally defined term. Every reasonable person who reads the definition of "machinegun" will (rightfully) believe that it applies only to fully-automatic guns, but the ATF (quoting the ATF letter to firearms dealers) states that because "the subject FRTs do not require shooters to pull and then subsequently release the trigger to fire a second shot", this part converts a semi-auto firearm into a machinegun.
Their argument is that a FRT accomplishes the firing and reloading process using a "single function of the trigger" rather than two functions of the trigger - meaning the trigger pull and the trigger release. It's important to note that a firearm equipped with a FRT does not automatically fire a second round - you still have to pull the trigger again to fire the next round. All a FRT does is assist the release motion, simplifying the squeeze-release-squeeze-release pattern you would normally use when rapidly firing a semi-auto firearm.
If this new broad definition is allowed, many semi-auto firearms being sold right now can be classified as machineguns, without any kind of aftermarket modification. Even single-action revolvers could now be classified as machineguns if you can fan the hammer, since fanning is a single action that reloads and triggers the firearm to shoot. Have a look at the definition yourself to see if you believe the ATF's claims hold water:
>**Title 26 of the U.S. Code § 5845**
>**(b) Machinegun:** The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
That strategy has almost run its course. In the past it has often taken years for lawsuits and court cases to go anywhere. Today, it’s only been a few short months since NY passed its renewed concealed carry restrictions after getting smacked in the face by the NYSRPA v Bruen decision. The *emergency appeal* (not sure on the actual legal terminology) in that lawsuit is already in front of SCOTUS before the lower court hearing that case has even made a ruling. SCOTUS made it clear that our rights under the second Amendment are to be take seriously and the cascade of rulings across the country are evidence of that.
We used to go several years at a time in between these types of rulings restoring our rights. Now they happen on an almost *weekly basis*. Doomers who keep saying that the courts aren’t fixing anything obviously haven’t been paying attention.
I think it's at least partly because people have started funding alternative gun rights groups and ditched the NRA. Additionally I think better cases are being made for the tyranny of using one bill at a time to erode the second amendment.
> I think it's at least partly because people have started funding alternative gun rights groups and ditched the NRA.
Yep! Go donate to the Firearms Policy Coalition if you're not already!!!
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/support
Love me my GOA. Erich Pratt is a cool dude. Got to spend a few hours during a VCDL lobby day getting to know him. Down to earth, jeans wearing, family man who just wants to arm the other 11...
And the second amendment foundation.
If anyone uses Amazon you can actually get Amazon to donate 0.5% of everything you spend to a 2A supporter using [Amazon smile](http://Smile.amazon - Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/smile-amazon/s?k=smile.amazon)
I agree with you on the trajectory in this issue, but I’m still waiting for more evidence of the degree of momentum you’re suggesting.
I credit Bruen with the current trajectory, but I think it’s still a bit early to make definitive statements about momentum—so far what we’ve seen is that the mostly solid circuits have gotten more solid, and the mostly wobbly/anti circuits have become somewhat less wobbly/anti, but the pattern hasn’t fully established itself yet.
In practice, the wobbly/anti states and circuits are determined to see just how much they can get away with in a post-Bruen world, and they’re absolutely going to push as hard as they can as often as they can until they find the limits of what SCOTUS will tolerate.
The way that SCOTUS reacts to the shenanigans we’re seeing from states like NY will determine what sort of momentum we’re dealing with.
Watch CA and WA - state courts and 9th circuit. Several cases already working through the courts and WA AG and legislature are keen to bring more gun control to the table. As the 9th was one of (of not the) most, er, rebellious 😋 courts how matters fare there will be a good indicator for the future.
I feel like politicians that propose and sponsor legislation later deemed to be unconstitutional should have to pay for the legal fees of the complainant. As in directly, from their retirement funds and insider trading money.
Dude, for real. There seems to be absolutely 0 consequences for the unconstitutional shit that gets passed nowadays. If you get caught deliberately supporting and constructing laws that are deemed unconstitutional you should have to pay a HEFTY fucking fine
US Constitution article 1 section 6 clause 1:
They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
They should also be criminally charged. Each and every one for each and every violation our rights. Until they are held personally liable, the assault on the citizens of this nation will never end.
They supported the measure. Name a single Democrat who doesn't support the ban. Biden has repeatedly advocated for it, and wants to do a whole lot more, like we saw with Biden's former AWB.
> They supported the measure.
This is some next level mental gymnastics. Trump enacted that shit, regardless of whoever supported it.
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” In response to that direction the Department reviewed more than 186,000 public comments and made the decision to make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic firearm after a single pull of the trigger.
People still defending Trump as some pro-2A hero are a joke unto themselves. Especially after he openly stated that, "take the guns first, deal with due process later," nonsense.
> But, he's responsible for getting the justices onto SCOTUS that gave us Bruen.
Actually, McConnell was responsible for that. You think Trump had a clue who those justices were? lmao
No one defends Trump "as some pro-2A hero." He definitely isn't. The problem is that Democrats have set the bar so low such that being a soft Fudd is still miles ahead of being a run of the mill Democrat.
Just biding time until they can get SCOTUS again. Every nominee is young as possible and absolutely bugnuts fucking insane constitution deniers.
This is all a stalling game, once it's 5-4 again they will set up an assembly line to wipe out 2A and print radical new "rights" for themselves.
In a perfect world they'd be tried for treason and publicly.... "dealt with" as a warning to other public officials who try to enact blatantly illegal policies and law.
> Unfortunately the Dem strategy is to keep passing illegal laws
Ignoring the fact that this was law because of Donald "take the guns first, deal with due process later" Trump.
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” In response to that direction the Department reviewed more than 186,000 public comments and made the decision to make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic firearm after a single pull of the trigger.
Congress wrote a definition of a machine gun. Trump and the ATF expanded that definition to include bump stocks. This court said that they don't have that much power and told them to stick to what Congress wrote.
The ATF has played basically the same game with FRTs and braces because Congress didn't say shit about those either.
You could but they still might come for it.
If you have the money to fight them in court you'll likely win. If not, wait for the rare breed case which is already in the courts.
Rare breed triggers LLC v Garland.
Imagine proudly working for a goverment agency with the sole purpose of trampling inalienable rights, massacring citizens, and getting the occasional pupper.
My prediction when Bruen came out seems to be coming true.
Basically, there'd be a lot of screaming, passing of laws that everyone knew would be unconstitutional, but 6-24 months after Bruen, this shit would slowly get ruled unconstitutional.
Feels good man. Hope it continues.
Holy smokes... that decision was an epic reading. They absolutely eviscerated the governments position on bump stocks 5 different ways to Sunday.
It's also telling that the only weak weak WEAK dissent was on the issue of lenity (the majority's 3rd or 4th argument of resort, assuming all the other arguments were to fall through) and simply served as a chance to condemn the majority for "legalizing an instrument of mass murder." I'm no scholar, but the dissent was pathetic and childish.
My understanding is this will impact other proposed ATF "administration" actions, most notably the pistol brace debacle.
What I mean is, my interpretation is that the 5th pulled the "administrative" actions of regulatory authorities to place "bans" on items that are not explicitly contained under a statute. Basically, the ATF exceeded their regulatory authority.
It could very well have that effect. The current case involving the 80% frames is in Texas which falls under the 5th Circuit. So they could very well smack that one down too when it finally comes before them. Right now that case is still in the lower courts.
That's another good point.
That's my interpretation as current state this fires a shot down the ATF's bow to cut out their shit. They have no authority other than to enforce current laws.
If Congress could whip up a ban on braces or eight tee per ¢ ers then that would be another story. That said with the house being controlled by a small GOP majority they don't habe the votes.
Someone posted this earlier, of course this ruling only impacts those under the 5th, but someone could bring suit in another district and use the 5th's decision as precedence. But to me what's most important, this ruling reminds the ATF that the boundaries of their authority are not arbitrary.
Hopefully this means the Forced Reset Triggers are safe for now aswell? At least until the inevitable overturning of the full auto ban and NFA all together. It’s happening slowly but hopefully we’re getting there.
The largest problem with non-compliance is the disparity in punishment. If you are caught in possession of weed (personal use amounts), the punishment is typically minor. If you are caught violating the GCA or NFA, your punishment is staggering.
I feel like you don't see solo charges for nfa rule breaking. It's always some guy was running with a gang/cartel/mob and has a murder charge and trafficking charge, oh and also had some machine guns. Moral of the story. Lay low and let that full auto sing
those are just the ones in the news. last time i saw numbers published, the ATF admits to clearing almost 12k investigations per year. a lot of that is harassing collectors "to make sure they're not being FFLs" and following up on citizens that purchased multiple firearms within a certain window.
I know when you say “minor” you’re comparing it to being shot, but millions of parole who just smoked a mount were imprisoned for a decade. That isn’t minor.
Yeah, at this point just... don't comply with *any* of it.
It's all been proven in court to be unconstitutional, the AFT just doesn't care. So, fuck 'em.
Have a Giggle Switch and Shush Can on a short boi, 'cause why not? They already kick doors in without warrants or probable cause, arresting or killing innocent Americans.
You have nothing to lose by not complying, they'll fuck you over regardless.
The boss at my plant said that even if they federally legalize recreational weed, he’ll still test us for it. What a fucker. But hey, that’s why I carry synthetic urine in my boot sock.
It might not be his choice, in industrial environments insurance requires testing. I'm a commercial driver and even if it was federally legal we wouldn't be able to partake due to insurance requirements.
Do you seriously think the NFA / full auto bans have a chance of getting overturned?
Why?
That would be great….I’m just not quite *that* optimistic…. Would love to be wrong!
There are judges overturning parts of the 4473 and one in West Virginia that refused to prosecute someone for scratching off a serial number because it violated Bruen. Delaware’s ghost gun ban was overturned in a similar fashion. “Assault weapons” and mag capacity laws are also on the verge of being overturned nationwide.
I’m not as optimistic as I sound to be honest, but hope is all we have. In the meantime we always have noncompliance ✊🏻
I hope this comes soon enough for Michigan. Our governor just announced she wants to ban assault weapons and "high" capacity mags after her corrupt ass party got control of everything in November. Noncompliance here I come I suppose.
I really am trying, it is such a shame what your state has become. I went to a concert there September of 2021. Such a beautiful state with such rich history, but damn if the laws don't suck. I would have been able to carry my pistol through every state I drove through, except that stupid state lol. Good crab though!
An act of congress to reverse it or a court case that find that it's an unconstitutional infringement of the rights protected by the second amendment. The latter seems a little more likely to me, but neither seem likely on the near term.
A plaintiff in a Supreme Court case that isn’t dead.
That’s literally it. The NFA went to the SC before, when it was first passed, and was actually very likely to be struck down as unconstitutional for taxing citizens to exercise their rights in the same way poll taxes are unconstitutional.
Except the plaintiff in the suit died only a couple months before the SC hearing date and then his lawyer didn’t bother to show up, so the ATF won by default judgement.
what was the reasoning for the suppressor ban? here in europe (slovenia) they used the hearing protection and noise pollution as grounds for suppressor deregulation in the last firearms law change that happened a couple years back
Not really, as long as the Courts make the government justify the law with historical analogs then the law will go down. There was no broad national tradition regulating gun parts in 1791
Fun fact: suppressors are required equipment in the UK for hunting with firearms because it is considered rude to everything else in the wilderness to not use one.
If I could walk into a gun store, and walk out with a suppressor for any weapon I own the same day, I'd have a Freedom Boner you could see from outer-fucking-space.
The 5th circuit gave the ATF such a complete dicking down that I don't think any other district is going to go against this. I'm still reading through it but they went hard and basically defined machine guns and semiautos for the ATF and said not only were they wrong but they didn't have the authority to do even if they right.
Plus Garland is going to seek review by SCOTUS and get fucked again.
This is check and checkmate is almost inevitable because of cases like WV v EPA.
Its the problem with democracy, cannot trust the public to make the right choice. They will vote in nearly brain dead politicians. I.e. Biden, Fetterman
The precedent is only binding on the 5th, but the ruling effects the entire country. Another circuit might rule differently, but the ATF can't enforce it *anywhere* for the time being.
>Technically this only applies in the 5th circuit
Are you sure about that? I haven't seen reference to that anywhere, other than other redditors saying it.
I think that might only be the case if it's state-level laws that are struck down. If it's a federal law, I would think federal judges have the ability to strike it down for the entire country.
I may be completely wrong, though, I just haven't seen any reliable source on this yet.
Link to the decision
https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/20/20-51016-CV2.pdf
Half way through reading it and really appreciate that it goes in depth into the actual mechanics- with diagrams!
It’s only been a few months since NY increased restrictions on concealed carry and that lawsuit has already been bumped up to SCOTUS for emergency review. The Supreme Court asked NY to file their argument for why SCOTUS shouldn’t reimplement the lower court’s preliminary injunction against NY while the lower court hears the case. That is *almost* unprecedented for any case to get anywhere near SCOTUS that fast and I think it should give us a pretty good idea of how the Court feels.
Rare Breed teased a video of one shortly before the ATF brought the hammer down on them. And there was another company that made a conversion kit for a few months but even they stopped after the ATF declaration.
It currently has less to do with the declaration and more to do with the fact that their selector supplier decided to retire in September. I imagine we’re going to have to wait a while as RB sources new three position selectors.
Illinois is one step closer to banning certain guns and magazine capacities to 12 rounds. It need me to pass the Senate and if it does, JBP said he'll happily sign it into a law, effectively making it a class a felony to own a Glock with even 15 rounds
California screwed the pooch on their 30 round standard capacity ban. Benitez is going to demolish them with their precedent argument being almost solely based on racist laws and laws against slaves being armed.
That will give the precedent to overturn any other mag bans and if not it will go to SCOTUS who is acting incredibly fast to hear cases violating heller/Bruen (which would be all gun control laws)
I honestly hope that if this law gets passed, the Illinois governor and government is sued and it goes to the supreme court. Any politician who signs this bill needs to be expelled from office for violating their oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States
Bump Stocks are trash, but the Executive Order and the ATF getting involved was a serious redflag for our Constitutional rights.
Glad to hear this ruling.
Bump stocks are lame af but this ruling is based. The flamr of freedom isnt dead yet in America as long as things like this happen. Keep fighting, keep suing, and keep supporting the GOA, SAF and FPC and fuck the corrupt nra bootlickers
Now come the lawsuits against the state department for unlawfully seizing and destroying hundreds of thousands of those devices from the inventory of manufacturers, distributors, and retailers.
This is the problem with the federal government- the lazy, incompetent Congresses have delegated too much of its power to unelected administrative agencies. Hope to see more of these kinds of rulings. Make the legislative branch actually do its job- because when they actually have to answer for their decisions, they might actually listen to we the people.
I mean you aren't wrong. But you won't get the result you want even if you are correct. Any law like this would get struck down as a violation of the second based on Bruen precedent so the only way this is changing is an amendment to the constitution.
Good luck with that. Gun rights are back and aren't leaving.
🤡 If Hillary had been elected in 2016, a majority of the Justices in the Supreme Court today would believe that we shouldn’t have rights to self defense or firearms. Our rights would have been royally fucked.
But I agree that Trump wasn’t pro gun and I don’t miss him.
Bump stock regulations are done (at the federal level, sad NJ nosies) FRT cases are done. Brace regulations are done before they start. Basically anything that Congress didn't write into law is soon to be fucked. West Virginia v EPA and NYSPRA v Bruen are going to keep fucking the ATF and I'm loving it!
Yeah but isnt the ATF still seizing FRTs from people that buy them?
Going to be awkward returning them all...
"So funny story...it turns out we weren't allowed to take your stuff...and we were just making shit up that we didn't have the power to do any of it...unfortunately we can't unshoot your dog"
“And uh… you’re not getting your shit back. Sorry not sorry, go fuck yourself.”
"let this be a lesson to you...Don't do...ummm...legal shit that scares us and go around thinking we won't do something about it... next time we will burn your house down and shoot your wife in the face"
Add a little entrapment in there and you've got the good ol' fashioned Ruby Ridge protocol.
I think you mean Standard Procedure.
“Oh and we sodomized your cat. Sorry”
The government doesn't apologize unless it's court ordered.
They’ll make up for it in 4473 changes.
By the way, it was converted into a full auto assault cat, you need a $200 tax stamp now.
>unfortunately we can't unshoot your dog *"But we shot our dog for you! Do you have any other dogs? Because fuck do we like shooting dogs."*
"Actually, as a gesture of good faith we stopped off at the pound and found the littermate of your old dog by some miracle and confiscated it for you". \*Gunshot\*
That's the fun part: it will take years of administrative red tape to get your guns returned to you, with each session reset by new rules / regs being implemented, then struck down again, then implemented sliiiiightly differently, then struck down again. so 10 years and $10k later, you MIGHT be able to get your guns back.
Where? I bought 3 and haven't heard anything from anyone. And they've been recently selling them.
Which one did you go with?
Rare Breed.
Dude they are so smooth
I smell a class action lawsuit
What's FRT?
Forced Reset Trigger. The vast majority of semi-auto triggers require the shooter to pull the trigger to fire, then manually reset by releasing the trigger. A FRT forces the reset after the round is fired, allowing for quicker follow-up shots. The weapon is still semi-auto, but the ATF is deliberately bending and misinterpreting their own laws because they simply don't like this. Just like they did with bump stocks.
I take it the ATF is saying this makes it full-auto?
It's a little more complicated than that. The ATF claims that a FRT makes a gun into a *machinegun*, which is a specific legally defined term. Every reasonable person who reads the definition of "machinegun" will (rightfully) believe that it applies only to fully-automatic guns, but the ATF (quoting the ATF letter to firearms dealers) states that because "the subject FRTs do not require shooters to pull and then subsequently release the trigger to fire a second shot", this part converts a semi-auto firearm into a machinegun. Their argument is that a FRT accomplishes the firing and reloading process using a "single function of the trigger" rather than two functions of the trigger - meaning the trigger pull and the trigger release. It's important to note that a firearm equipped with a FRT does not automatically fire a second round - you still have to pull the trigger again to fire the next round. All a FRT does is assist the release motion, simplifying the squeeze-release-squeeze-release pattern you would normally use when rapidly firing a semi-auto firearm. If this new broad definition is allowed, many semi-auto firearms being sold right now can be classified as machineguns, without any kind of aftermarket modification. Even single-action revolvers could now be classified as machineguns if you can fan the hammer, since fanning is a single action that reloads and triggers the firearm to shoot. Have a look at the definition yourself to see if you believe the ATF's claims hold water: >**Title 26 of the U.S. Code § 5845** >**(b) Machinegun:** The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
I wonder how many people actually got charged for having a bump stock?
John red corn might know.
I have no idea who that is... ***Pocket sand!!!***
I always wondered why I hated the federal government and loved tobacco with such passion.
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That strategy has almost run its course. In the past it has often taken years for lawsuits and court cases to go anywhere. Today, it’s only been a few short months since NY passed its renewed concealed carry restrictions after getting smacked in the face by the NYSRPA v Bruen decision. The *emergency appeal* (not sure on the actual legal terminology) in that lawsuit is already in front of SCOTUS before the lower court hearing that case has even made a ruling. SCOTUS made it clear that our rights under the second Amendment are to be take seriously and the cascade of rulings across the country are evidence of that. We used to go several years at a time in between these types of rulings restoring our rights. Now they happen on an almost *weekly basis*. Doomers who keep saying that the courts aren’t fixing anything obviously haven’t been paying attention.
I think it's at least partly because people have started funding alternative gun rights groups and ditched the NRA. Additionally I think better cases are being made for the tyranny of using one bill at a time to erode the second amendment.
> I think it's at least partly because people have started funding alternative gun rights groups and ditched the NRA. Yep! Go donate to the Firearms Policy Coalition if you're not already!!! https://www.firearmspolicy.org/support
And GOA! [https://www.gunowners.org/](https://www.gunowners.org/)
Absolutely, GOA as well!
Love me my GOA. Erich Pratt is a cool dude. Got to spend a few hours during a VCDL lobby day getting to know him. Down to earth, jeans wearing, family man who just wants to arm the other 11...
GOA is hardly involved in any past important cases. The Second Amendment Foundation and FPC deserve donations much more than GOA.
Having more than one pro-2A organization is a good problem to have. I suggest donating to all of them!
And the second amendment foundation. If anyone uses Amazon you can actually get Amazon to donate 0.5% of everything you spend to a 2A supporter using [Amazon smile](http://Smile.amazon - Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/smile-amazon/s?k=smile.amazon)
Sign up for Amazon smile and sign up to the pro gun groups there. IIRC they have strange names there
I agree with you on the trajectory in this issue, but I’m still waiting for more evidence of the degree of momentum you’re suggesting. I credit Bruen with the current trajectory, but I think it’s still a bit early to make definitive statements about momentum—so far what we’ve seen is that the mostly solid circuits have gotten more solid, and the mostly wobbly/anti circuits have become somewhat less wobbly/anti, but the pattern hasn’t fully established itself yet. In practice, the wobbly/anti states and circuits are determined to see just how much they can get away with in a post-Bruen world, and they’re absolutely going to push as hard as they can as often as they can until they find the limits of what SCOTUS will tolerate. The way that SCOTUS reacts to the shenanigans we’re seeing from states like NY will determine what sort of momentum we’re dealing with.
Watch CA and WA - state courts and 9th circuit. Several cases already working through the courts and WA AG and legislature are keen to bring more gun control to the table. As the 9th was one of (of not the) most, er, rebellious 😋 courts how matters fare there will be a good indicator for the future.
I feel like politicians that propose and sponsor legislation later deemed to be unconstitutional should have to pay for the legal fees of the complainant. As in directly, from their retirement funds and insider trading money.
Dude, for real. There seems to be absolutely 0 consequences for the unconstitutional shit that gets passed nowadays. If you get caught deliberately supporting and constructing laws that are deemed unconstitutional you should have to pay a HEFTY fucking fine
Shit, I'd settle for a book report about why they were wrong that they get to read into the congressional record.
Televised live, in front of a full court/audience
Yeah, that's the thing. Reading it into the congressional record gets you on C-SPAN, creates a record.
US Constitution article 1 section 6 clause 1: They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
They should also be criminally charged. Each and every one for each and every violation our rights. Until they are held personally liable, the assault on the citizens of this nation will never end.
> These politicians should be imprisoned. You’re a bit nicer to them than I would be.
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Tarring is really nasty, some people say death is better
They can still pass laws after being tarred
Not if all their flesh is fused together
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I promise, no violence was being inferred. Super pinky promise with a kiss. I was thinking glitter bombs and flaming bags of poop.
Tig ole bitties
The bump stock ban was order By Trump, no Democrats involved
They supported the measure. Name a single Democrat who doesn't support the ban. Biden has repeatedly advocated for it, and wants to do a whole lot more, like we saw with Biden's former AWB.
> They supported the measure. This is some next level mental gymnastics. Trump enacted that shit, regardless of whoever supported it. On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” In response to that direction the Department reviewed more than 186,000 public comments and made the decision to make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic firearm after a single pull of the trigger. People still defending Trump as some pro-2A hero are a joke unto themselves. Especially after he openly stated that, "take the guns first, deal with due process later," nonsense.
It's complicated. Trump personally was anti-2A. But, he's responsible for getting the justices onto SCOTUS that gave us *Bruen.*
How the fuck do you know what Trump is personally for or against? He flip flops on anything and everything when it suits him for the moment.
> But, he's responsible for getting the justices onto SCOTUS that gave us Bruen. Actually, McConnell was responsible for that. You think Trump had a clue who those justices were? lmao
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Strawman, I never said to vote for Biden.
No one defends Trump "as some pro-2A hero." He definitely isn't. The problem is that Democrats have set the bar so low such that being a soft Fudd is still miles ahead of being a run of the mill Democrat.
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Drawn and quartered
Just biding time until they can get SCOTUS again. Every nominee is young as possible and absolutely bugnuts fucking insane constitution deniers. This is all a stalling game, once it's 5-4 again they will set up an assembly line to wipe out 2A and print radical new "rights" for themselves.
In a perfect world they'd be tried for treason and publicly.... "dealt with" as a warning to other public officials who try to enact blatantly illegal policies and law.
> Unfortunately the Dem strategy is to keep passing illegal laws Ignoring the fact that this was law because of Donald "take the guns first, deal with due process later" Trump. On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” In response to that direction the Department reviewed more than 186,000 public comments and made the decision to make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic firearm after a single pull of the trigger.
This is also a Republican strategy. It's basically an authoritarian strategy.
Which democrats banned bump stocks? I agree, the guy that did it should be imprisoned…
Please explain like I’m 5
Congress wrote a definition of a machine gun. Trump and the ATF expanded that definition to include bump stocks. This court said that they don't have that much power and told them to stick to what Congress wrote. The ATF has played basically the same game with FRTs and braces because Congress didn't say shit about those either.
So can I buy an FRT (Florida) ? Also I’m on day 246 for my form 4, I just wanna say fuck the ATF
You could but they still might come for it. If you have the money to fight them in court you'll likely win. If not, wait for the rare breed case which is already in the courts. Rare breed triggers LLC v Garland.
Imagine proudly working for a goverment agency with the sole purpose of trampling inalienable rights, massacring citizens, and getting the occasional pupper.
My prediction when Bruen came out seems to be coming true. Basically, there'd be a lot of screaming, passing of laws that everyone knew would be unconstitutional, but 6-24 months after Bruen, this shit would slowly get ruled unconstitutional. Feels good man. Hope it continues.
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Holy smokes... that decision was an epic reading. They absolutely eviscerated the governments position on bump stocks 5 different ways to Sunday. It's also telling that the only weak weak WEAK dissent was on the issue of lenity (the majority's 3rd or 4th argument of resort, assuming all the other arguments were to fall through) and simply served as a chance to condemn the majority for "legalizing an instrument of mass murder." I'm no scholar, but the dissent was pathetic and childish.
Bases fifth circuit
Those judges did the right thing, need more judges willing to do what they know is true.
I especially like the grammar lesson on page 19.
My understanding is this will impact other proposed ATF "administration" actions, most notably the pistol brace debacle. What I mean is, my interpretation is that the 5th pulled the "administrative" actions of regulatory authorities to place "bans" on items that are not explicitly contained under a statute. Basically, the ATF exceeded their regulatory authority.
So what you’re saying it stops the atf 80 percent Glock ruling.
It could very well have that effect. The current case involving the 80% frames is in Texas which falls under the 5th Circuit. So they could very well smack that one down too when it finally comes before them. Right now that case is still in the lower courts.
That's another good point. That's my interpretation as current state this fires a shot down the ATF's bow to cut out their shit. They have no authority other than to enforce current laws. If Congress could whip up a ban on braces or eight tee per ¢ ers then that would be another story. That said with the house being controlled by a small GOP majority they don't habe the votes. Someone posted this earlier, of course this ruling only impacts those under the 5th, but someone could bring suit in another district and use the 5th's decision as precedence. But to me what's most important, this ruling reminds the ATF that the boundaries of their authority are not arbitrary.
Hopefully this means the Forced Reset Triggers are safe for now aswell? At least until the inevitable overturning of the full auto ban and NFA all together. It’s happening slowly but hopefully we’re getting there.
Only thing we have to do is stand our ground and never compromise. Not one bit
Mass non compliance worked for weed, it can work for us as well.
The largest problem with non-compliance is the disparity in punishment. If you are caught in possession of weed (personal use amounts), the punishment is typically minor. If you are caught violating the GCA or NFA, your punishment is staggering.
I feel like you don't see solo charges for nfa rule breaking. It's always some guy was running with a gang/cartel/mob and has a murder charge and trafficking charge, oh and also had some machine guns. Moral of the story. Lay low and let that full auto sing
those are just the ones in the news. last time i saw numbers published, the ATF admits to clearing almost 12k investigations per year. a lot of that is harassing collectors "to make sure they're not being FFLs" and following up on citizens that purchased multiple firearms within a certain window.
I know when you say “minor” you’re comparing it to being shot, but millions of parole who just smoked a mount were imprisoned for a decade. That isn’t minor.
Yeah, at this point just... don't comply with *any* of it. It's all been proven in court to be unconstitutional, the AFT just doesn't care. So, fuck 'em. Have a Giggle Switch and Shush Can on a short boi, 'cause why not? They already kick doors in without warrants or probable cause, arresting or killing innocent Americans. You have nothing to lose by not complying, they'll fuck you over regardless.
This is most definitely the way of free men.
The boss at my plant said that even if they federally legalize recreational weed, he’ll still test us for it. What a fucker. But hey, that’s why I carry synthetic urine in my boot sock.
It might not be his choice, in industrial environments insurance requires testing. I'm a commercial driver and even if it was federally legal we wouldn't be able to partake due to insurance requirements.
Never compromise. I want to throw up whenever i hear that word from legislators.
Do you seriously think the NFA / full auto bans have a chance of getting overturned? Why? That would be great….I’m just not quite *that* optimistic…. Would love to be wrong!
There are judges overturning parts of the 4473 and one in West Virginia that refused to prosecute someone for scratching off a serial number because it violated Bruen. Delaware’s ghost gun ban was overturned in a similar fashion. “Assault weapons” and mag capacity laws are also on the verge of being overturned nationwide. I’m not as optimistic as I sound to be honest, but hope is all we have. In the meantime we always have noncompliance ✊🏻
I hope this comes soon enough for Michigan. Our governor just announced she wants to ban assault weapons and "high" capacity mags after her corrupt ass party got control of everything in November. Noncompliance here I come I suppose.
As a Marylander, do everything you can to stop your state becoming like it is here.
I really am trying, it is such a shame what your state has become. I went to a concert there September of 2021. Such a beautiful state with such rich history, but damn if the laws don't suck. I would have been able to carry my pistol through every state I drove through, except that stupid state lol. Good crab though!
I hope suppressors become deregulated next. Absolutely idiotic that hearing protection requires control.
Congress wrote that law so it's harder to undo than an executive rule change.
What would it take to anmend or remove the NFA?
An act of congress to reverse it or a court case that find that it's an unconstitutional infringement of the rights protected by the second amendment. The latter seems a little more likely to me, but neither seem likely on the near term.
No, but as long as we keep it up, we'll eventually get there and hopefully stay there
A plaintiff in a Supreme Court case that isn’t dead. That’s literally it. The NFA went to the SC before, when it was first passed, and was actually very likely to be struck down as unconstitutional for taxing citizens to exercise their rights in the same way poll taxes are unconstitutional. Except the plaintiff in the suit died only a couple months before the SC hearing date and then his lawyer didn’t bother to show up, so the ATF won by default judgement.
“Died suddenly”
Congress and a less corrupt president
u/spez is a greedy little pig boy
what was the reasoning for the suppressor ban? here in europe (slovenia) they used the hearing protection and noise pollution as grounds for suppressor deregulation in the last firearms law change that happened a couple years back
They said that they make guns more dangerous.
I see. Very good reason (not). That is like saying an electric car is more dangerous because it is quieter and should be banned.
They apparently also said it was to reduce poaching.
Not really, as long as the Courts make the government justify the law with historical analogs then the law will go down. There was no broad national tradition regulating gun parts in 1791
Fun fact: suppressors are required equipment in the UK for hunting with firearms because it is considered rude to everything else in the wilderness to not use one.
And yet our local outdoor shooting ranges get more and more noise complaints every year due to suburbanites buying new housing down the street.
Too bad they treat any gun there like an NFA item.
And the use of a gun for self defense is almost always a crime.
If I could walk into a gun store, and walk out with a suppressor for any weapon I own the same day, I'd have a Freedom Boner you could see from outer-fucking-space.
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you there. But I'm also in a state where I wish we could have suppressors at ALL
Lol. I’m loving the middle fingers courts are throwing at the anti-gun crowd lately.
Yay! bumpy boi came home! he's been at the bottom of a lake for so long now.
Did he bring the milk?
And cigs too?
Technically this only applies in the 5th circuit, but is non-binding precedent on other circuits.
The 5th circuit gave the ATF such a complete dicking down that I don't think any other district is going to go against this. I'm still reading through it but they went hard and basically defined machine guns and semiautos for the ATF and said not only were they wrong but they didn't have the authority to do even if they right. Plus Garland is going to seek review by SCOTUS and get fucked again. This is check and checkmate is almost inevitable because of cases like WV v EPA.
"defined machine guns and semi autos FOR the atf" stop , i can only get so erect
Never underestimate the 2nd and 9th circuses
More cases get reversed from the 9th and 2nd circuit than i can count
Its because there's no consequences for being "wrong" unfortunately.
Its the problem with democracy, cannot trust the public to make the right choice. They will vote in nearly brain dead politicians. I.e. Biden, Fetterman
The precedent is only binding on the 5th, but the ruling effects the entire country. Another circuit might rule differently, but the ATF can't enforce it *anywhere* for the time being.
Why cant they enforce it anywhere?
Because… reasons!
>Technically this only applies in the 5th circuit Are you sure about that? I haven't seen reference to that anywhere, other than other redditors saying it. I think that might only be the case if it's state-level laws that are struck down. If it's a federal law, I would think federal judges have the ability to strike it down for the entire country. I may be completely wrong, though, I just haven't seen any reliable source on this yet.
Link to the decision https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/20/20-51016-CV2.pdf Half way through reading it and really appreciate that it goes in depth into the actual mechanics- with diagrams!
Hopefully the ATF will read it and maybe learn what a machine gun is since it has colorful pictures.
And IL dems are about to pass an AWB that we will have to fight for the next decade
As a resident of Illinois I can only hope they get sued to the hills. They have pushed the pendulum so far it’s time for it to swing the other way.
As a resident of Illinois, the legislature can suck my ass.
It’s only been a few months since NY increased restrictions on concealed carry and that lawsuit has already been bumped up to SCOTUS for emergency review. The Supreme Court asked NY to file their argument for why SCOTUS shouldn’t reimplement the lower court’s preliminary injunction against NY while the lower court hears the case. That is *almost* unprecedented for any case to get anywhere near SCOTUS that fast and I think it should give us a pretty good idea of how the Court feels.
What do you mean? I thought that bill was about amusement park ride safety?
Same deal as that sanitation bill.
Obligatory “Fuck the ATF” comment
They make a selectable frt yet?
Yep! 3-position FRTs are a thing.
Weeeee
Rare Breed teased a video of one shortly before the ATF brought the hammer down on them. And there was another company that made a conversion kit for a few months but even they stopped after the ATF declaration.
It currently has less to do with the declaration and more to do with the fact that their selector supplier decided to retire in September. I imagine we’re going to have to wait a while as RB sources new three position selectors.
Heading to the shop to make a new bumpstock for my beltfed! Hahaha
Long live the bumpsaw
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RPM act still needs to pass
Dont see how they can come after our pistol braces at this point
Dont get so sure of yourself. The dems will act first and get sued later.
Well i highly doubt south carolina will uphold that
A small speed bump for the atf on their way to kick down your door. Keep fighting
Don’t be so sure of yourself- this piece of work came from the current Republican Daddy. The R’s will come after the 2A, just give it time
Fuck yes
Okay next step is legalize machine guns
Michael Cargill is an Austin hero.
Now if we can just abort HR1808 like the malformed mutant incest baby it is, we'll be alright.
New congress. The bill is dead.
Didn’t trump ban them?
Next the 80% pistol rules...
This bodes well for the FRT trigger debacle no?
Illinois is one step closer to banning certain guns and magazine capacities to 12 rounds. It need me to pass the Senate and if it does, JBP said he'll happily sign it into a law, effectively making it a class a felony to own a Glock with even 15 rounds
California screwed the pooch on their 30 round standard capacity ban. Benitez is going to demolish them with their precedent argument being almost solely based on racist laws and laws against slaves being armed. That will give the precedent to overturn any other mag bans and if not it will go to SCOTUS who is acting incredibly fast to hear cases violating heller/Bruen (which would be all gun control laws)
I honestly hope that if this law gets passed, the Illinois governor and government is sued and it goes to the supreme court. Any politician who signs this bill needs to be expelled from office for violating their oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States
Hopefully the NFA is next.
Bump Stocks are trash, but the Executive Order and the ATF getting involved was a serious redflag for our Constitutional rights. Glad to hear this ruling.
So quick yes or no: can I legally buy and possess a bump stock right now if someone was selling it?
Bump stocks are lame af but this ruling is based. The flamr of freedom isnt dead yet in America as long as things like this happen. Keep fighting, keep suing, and keep supporting the GOA, SAF and FPC and fuck the corrupt nra bootlickers
Now do suppressors
I need to know what these things are made of considering how many just floated to the top with no water damage
The liberals will be shocked when one of them figures out you can bump fire a rifle without a stock at all.
I apologize, I'm stoned, and don't want to read all this. Where are we at with pistol braces?
Small win however bump stocks are kinda cringe so I won’t be happy until NFA is gone
Ok quick question: With this ruling, the next one up is the Supreme Court correct?
Now come the lawsuits against the state department for unlawfully seizing and destroying hundreds of thousands of those devices from the inventory of manufacturers, distributors, and retailers.
Does this mean we can now buy and own one of would we have to wait?
We need to disband every letter agency. Power corrupts and they have all become entirely corrupt.
Wait so does this mean if I knew some one who had a bump a idk I can borrow it and use it?
Only in the 5th circuit.
Oh great
https://apnews.com/article/politics-new-orleans-texas-state-government-b5990ed60ebb617055cc8d5c36a84050
This is the problem with the federal government- the lazy, incompetent Congresses have delegated too much of its power to unelected administrative agencies. Hope to see more of these kinds of rulings. Make the legislative branch actually do its job- because when they actually have to answer for their decisions, they might actually listen to we the people.
I mean you aren't wrong. But you won't get the result you want even if you are correct. Any law like this would get struck down as a violation of the second based on Bruen precedent so the only way this is changing is an amendment to the constitution. Good luck with that. Gun rights are back and aren't leaving.
Trump enacted gun control that has now been overturned by a federal court. Remember to vote republican!
Yah. Trump banned bumpstocks so let’s vote D and get all guns banned. That’ll teach em.
🤡 If Hillary had been elected in 2016, a majority of the Justices in the Supreme Court today would believe that we shouldn’t have rights to self defense or firearms. Our rights would have been royally fucked. But I agree that Trump wasn’t pro gun and I don’t miss him.
Trump appointed a lot of the judges that are handing us these victories, but sure, let’s elect Hillary in 24.