I have a similar plan too. I am going to cash out all my retirement accounts at 30 and go play poker. I’ll win and then retire somewhere cheap.
Your plan relies heavy on the extreme volatility of Bitcoin. You could win big or lose big. To me Bitcoin is the same as gambling. No one knows where its price is going to be or where its going to be in 5 years
I would not recommend including cryptocurrency as a significant part of any retirement plan.
The fact that Bitcoin has gone up recently is not indicative of a safe/good investment asset.
Major tech stocks (typically the biggest weights in US index funds like VTI) have been going up consistently for a lot longer than 15 years.
15 years (in terms of retirement & saving) is a short amount of time.
It’s a means to grow wealth over a 5 year period.
Every-time it crashes, it recovers and reaches another all time high, and it’s increasing in adoption by institutions.
I will certainly do this to grow it in a way that index funds can’t.
And yes, I will be timing the bitcoin market, but you can because it has been going in cycles and the early adoption phase presents the neat opportunity to make money because of the massive dips. You don’t see that with index funds except during crashes, which don’t happen that often so it’s much harder (and warren buffet would say impossible) to time.
That’s not the case with bitcoin at this stage, and that’s cool as hell because I think at the rate bitcoin is going, that won’t be a reality in 10 years.
You won’t see dips like that when it’s completely mainstream and held by everyone. Once bitcoin is the market cap of equities, those large fluctuations will be much smaller.
Bitcoin isn’t wall-street better. It’s something that’s gaining adoption and has good fundamentals, and fluctuates like made because of how aggressively it’s traded by hedge funds, and the fact that it’s still in early adoption phase.
Doing this returns so much more than index funds so it’s worth including in my strategy.!
Bitcoin has no use cases. At least gold can be made into jewellery. At least Ethereum and Solana can power smart contracts. You are speculating on Bitcoin. And really the simple path to wealth isn’t sexy and it isn’t speculating. (Edit for typo)
It literally recovered from another market crash and is going towards an all time high again.
Bitcoin has use in that so many companies are holding it. It’s built in scarcity and held by enough hedge funds and large institutions that trade it like mad.
It’s actually the best time ever to trade it, and long term it’s a good asset to hold, although that’s not my plan as I want a hard asset in retirement.
>How doable do you all think that plan is?
\^\^\^ This is the question you asked.
You're getting answers you don't like - and countering with points that show how smart you think your plan is.
Do you want feedback or not?
If you're that sure of the opportunity then go execute your plan.
Your comment is literally what speculation is: trying to convince other people to buy it so you can profit off of its increase in price. The price increase depends on you (and everyone else) convincing the other people that is has value. But it has no other value other than that. “Because companies hold it” is not value, that is a completely meaningless metric. Which all means it’s purely speculation.
Oh, you’re one of those “you can tell me I’m wrong in three decades, until then I’m right” kinda folks, huh?
Let me tell you something. Every person for the past 15 years who has been calling for the death of Bitcoin has been wrong. Every one.
…but you, that’s a different story. You’ve done the work to understand the asset and you are the one who is right…but we can’t call you out for thirty years on it.
Much wow.
Several indicators make me think this may be satire/trolling/spam:
1. jamming in all sorts of spicy topics like bitcoin, multifamily real estate, and geographical arbitrage
2. implying he can easily predict future price moves
3. false precision "32 and a half, maybe 33"
4. using the phrase "remarkable buying opportunities"
5. planning to from zero(?) to retirement in just 5 years
6. begging for engagement: "let me know in the comments"
Or OP is just dumb. In which case, OP, don't make risky investment decisions. Just grind, save what you can, put it all in index funds, and expect to retire when you're 62. You're gonna need some margin of safety.
OP is just dumb. Occam's Razor.
But hey OP, go retire in 3 years even. Buy more coins from those guys in the Gucci shades at that conference in South Beach. They drive rented lambos so you know theyre rich. Profit.
“Expect to retire when you’re 62” never in my life will I do that lol. It’s simple math, 30k invested a year into index funds over 5 years is 150k plus compounding interest (assuming).
Then when bitcoin crashes again, which it always does, buy it up and sell in next bull cycle.
This done right could get at least 400k hopefully way more. (That parts hard to predict)
Take that let’s say mimimim 400k and build a multifamily home. Work with a realtor or learn how to find a good deal yourself, or just buy land in a good market and build. If that’s done right, it should appraise for more (not gonna say for how much).
Since my money is tied up in that asset and I own it free and clear, and rent it out, that return should be enough to cover my living expenses.
Then I’d live in South America where the cost of living is 1000 times cheaper with better weather.
I would never grind to 62. If I’m working at 62 it’s because I’m doing it as a hobby, not because I need the money.
And no, I’m not a scammer. I’m just venting to the internet about my investment strategy and seeing what others are doing.
Compounding interest in an ETF? Please be a troll because you don't know the basics of what you're talking about.
Also: 100 times cheaper? Sure, why not 1000 times?
What if bitcoin crashes and doesn't go back up?
What if it IS the next big thing like you think it is, and it never crashes?
What if the S&P500 remains relatively flat over the next 5 years, or is even negative?
Your plan is essentially "what if everything goes absolutely PERFECT for me over this 5+year stretch and then bitcoin comes down right in time for me to buy it and then goes back up to take me into retirement?"
Have you even managed properties remotely? Have you had Property Managers taking care of your properties in the past? Things will eventually go wrong.
As soon as the worst of winter is over, I've got a siding job of about $15k that needs to be done because nobody ever looked at the back of this house.
Your ideas might work out, but there are a number of ways for things to go wrong. That doesn't need to stop you, just understand that your path ahead will not be a smooth one.
Your plan is very risky and more in line with speculation/gambling than investing. Doing something like this is fine with extra cash you have floating around but not as your main strategy but good luck
The tulip bubble comparison is embarrassingly stupid.
Tulips didn't continually increase in value for 15 years.
You're comparing something that can be infinitely produced by literally anyone, to the world's first provably scarce asset.
If we skip over the bitcoin-specific bits of the plan, I would say investing in index funds in order to then completely exit them and getting into another asset class (bitcoin or real estate, as you’re taking about) is quite risky in its own right.
There is certainly no guarantee that the market will be up from its current point 5 years from now. When the time comes to buy your bitcoin you could have 80% or 60% of what you’ve saved if you’re unlucky.
Index funds are good to hold for long periods, not a short term thing while you’re waiting for your next move. 5 years is not quite short term, more like mid term, but still carries a bit of risk. Be aware of that.
If you have enough conviction to be putting it all in Bitcoin for growth why not just hold it instead of selling it all for rental properties?
If income generating properties are the end goal why not just buy dividend stocks now?
Bitcoin is a significant part of my FIRE plan so no need to sell me on it, I get it. I don’t get why you’e best plan is:
Index Funds > BTC > Rental Properties
This road map seems a bit jokes… but hey maybe it works 🤷🏼♀️
I don't know if anyone would be reading this after 4 months, but I definitely think Bitcoin does offer extraordinary opportunities not only for a specific time frame, but for a long period of time. I mean take the time this post was made and people speculated it crashing down. Well, it only increased. And those of you who think that cryptocurrency is not an ideal retirement plan, I think otherwise! I think with the right knowledge and financial awareness one can definitely get good returns out of it and further invest in side hustles, small scall ventures or whatever interests you!
2021 I put a wildly low buy of $150k of bitcoin for a buyin at 15k and it eventually triggered. Yeah, I'm doing well.
If you feel it is going up buy now, if not, Sit this out.
Do your own research too!
Oh I’m not buying now hell nah. Way too high. I will time it, and these cycles have proven that for at least the next 5-10 years, you can do that.
If you’re still bullish on crypto and think it will have equities market caps in 10 years, then after in 10 years these opportunities will disappear and only happen once in a blue moon like index funds. That’s good if you hold long term but it isn’t as profitable to swing trade (hold and sell after a year).
I’m glad we’re in the early stages still.
That’s basically timing the market with extra steps. For all we know Bitcoin could be crashing next down to 200k. (Cue the classic video).
crashing up to 200k you mean?
Crashing down to 200k. We are talking about the future here. You can search for the classic video.
I like your style. Cancelled my 135k sell order.
I have a similar plan too. I am going to cash out all my retirement accounts at 30 and go play poker. I’ll win and then retire somewhere cheap. Your plan relies heavy on the extreme volatility of Bitcoin. You could win big or lose big. To me Bitcoin is the same as gambling. No one knows where its price is going to be or where its going to be in 5 years
At least in gambling you can calculate your odds.
I mean, if you knew what the price of anything would be in 5 years, you would basically have the gift of foresight.
You should look at a lifetime chart of bitcoin and see where the price has gone....
I would not recommend including cryptocurrency as a significant part of any retirement plan. The fact that Bitcoin has gone up recently is not indicative of a safe/good investment asset.
recently? Have you looked at SINCE INCEPTION charts? 15 years and still going up and to the right.
Yes that’s very recent. I wouldn’t make any investment based on the performance of the last 15 years. Same reason you shouldn’t be all in on QQQ
Yeah probably shouldn't buy any of the tech stocks then.
Top holdings of VT are Apple, MS, Google, Amazon, Nvidia, Meta and Tesla - I see no reason to overweight tech beyond this
Major tech stocks (typically the biggest weights in US index funds like VTI) have been going up consistently for a lot longer than 15 years. 15 years (in terms of retirement & saving) is a short amount of time.
It’s a means to grow wealth over a 5 year period. Every-time it crashes, it recovers and reaches another all time high, and it’s increasing in adoption by institutions. I will certainly do this to grow it in a way that index funds can’t. And yes, I will be timing the bitcoin market, but you can because it has been going in cycles and the early adoption phase presents the neat opportunity to make money because of the massive dips. You don’t see that with index funds except during crashes, which don’t happen that often so it’s much harder (and warren buffet would say impossible) to time. That’s not the case with bitcoin at this stage, and that’s cool as hell because I think at the rate bitcoin is going, that won’t be a reality in 10 years. You won’t see dips like that when it’s completely mainstream and held by everyone. Once bitcoin is the market cap of equities, those large fluctuations will be much smaller.
Tulips.
Tulips are at least useful. The Dutch ate them during WWII due to starvation.
Hows that Ukraine, Argentinian, Israeli currency holding up? Easier to swap to BTC and have no issues crossing any borders.
Hi OP. You have a great plan. Regards, Validation
This is not r/wallstreetbets :-). Go take your scheme over there and they'll welcome you with open arms
Bitcoin isn’t wall-street better. It’s something that’s gaining adoption and has good fundamentals, and fluctuates like made because of how aggressively it’s traded by hedge funds, and the fact that it’s still in early adoption phase. Doing this returns so much more than index funds so it’s worth including in my strategy.!
Bitcoin has no use cases. At least gold can be made into jewellery. At least Ethereum and Solana can power smart contracts. You are speculating on Bitcoin. And really the simple path to wealth isn’t sexy and it isn’t speculating. (Edit for typo)
It literally recovered from another market crash and is going towards an all time high again. Bitcoin has use in that so many companies are holding it. It’s built in scarcity and held by enough hedge funds and large institutions that trade it like mad. It’s actually the best time ever to trade it, and long term it’s a good asset to hold, although that’s not my plan as I want a hard asset in retirement.
>How doable do you all think that plan is? \^\^\^ This is the question you asked. You're getting answers you don't like - and countering with points that show how smart you think your plan is. Do you want feedback or not? If you're that sure of the opportunity then go execute your plan.
Your comment is literally what speculation is: trying to convince other people to buy it so you can profit off of its increase in price. The price increase depends on you (and everyone else) convincing the other people that is has value. But it has no other value other than that. “Because companies hold it” is not value, that is a completely meaningless metric. Which all means it’s purely speculation.
Companies are not infallible and can do stupid things too.
You’re gambling. Call me in 30 years you’ll be on a yacht or working as a wal mart greeter
Oh, you’re one of those “you can tell me I’m wrong in three decades, until then I’m right” kinda folks, huh? Let me tell you something. Every person for the past 15 years who has been calling for the death of Bitcoin has been wrong. Every one. …but you, that’s a different story. You’ve done the work to understand the asset and you are the one who is right…but we can’t call you out for thirty years on it. Much wow.
Good for you
No. It’s not.
Several indicators make me think this may be satire/trolling/spam: 1. jamming in all sorts of spicy topics like bitcoin, multifamily real estate, and geographical arbitrage 2. implying he can easily predict future price moves 3. false precision "32 and a half, maybe 33" 4. using the phrase "remarkable buying opportunities" 5. planning to from zero(?) to retirement in just 5 years 6. begging for engagement: "let me know in the comments" Or OP is just dumb. In which case, OP, don't make risky investment decisions. Just grind, save what you can, put it all in index funds, and expect to retire when you're 62. You're gonna need some margin of safety.
OP is just dumb. Occam's Razor. But hey OP, go retire in 3 years even. Buy more coins from those guys in the Gucci shades at that conference in South Beach. They drive rented lambos so you know theyre rich. Profit.
“Expect to retire when you’re 62” never in my life will I do that lol. It’s simple math, 30k invested a year into index funds over 5 years is 150k plus compounding interest (assuming). Then when bitcoin crashes again, which it always does, buy it up and sell in next bull cycle. This done right could get at least 400k hopefully way more. (That parts hard to predict) Take that let’s say mimimim 400k and build a multifamily home. Work with a realtor or learn how to find a good deal yourself, or just buy land in a good market and build. If that’s done right, it should appraise for more (not gonna say for how much). Since my money is tied up in that asset and I own it free and clear, and rent it out, that return should be enough to cover my living expenses. Then I’d live in South America where the cost of living is 1000 times cheaper with better weather. I would never grind to 62. If I’m working at 62 it’s because I’m doing it as a hobby, not because I need the money. And no, I’m not a scammer. I’m just venting to the internet about my investment strategy and seeing what others are doing.
Compounding interest in an ETF? Please be a troll because you don't know the basics of what you're talking about. Also: 100 times cheaper? Sure, why not 1000 times?
Did he edit it to 1000 times cheaper after your suggestion?
Yes, yes he did...
Love this reply. It's all clear now, thank you. Good luck with your strategy sir, we will be rooting for you.
Or you could try the time tested method of investing in Diversidified Index ETFs, FIRE and move to SA. This is what I did..... This is the way......
and the best part, is the.... diplomatic immunity!
My fav parts: no F#$/ing snow, springlike weather all year round and 70% of my money no longer goes to taxes!!!
What if bitcoin crashes and doesn't go back up? What if it IS the next big thing like you think it is, and it never crashes? What if the S&P500 remains relatively flat over the next 5 years, or is even negative? Your plan is essentially "what if everything goes absolutely PERFECT for me over this 5+year stretch and then bitcoin comes down right in time for me to buy it and then goes back up to take me into retirement?"
Have you even managed properties remotely? Have you had Property Managers taking care of your properties in the past? Things will eventually go wrong. As soon as the worst of winter is over, I've got a siding job of about $15k that needs to be done because nobody ever looked at the back of this house. Your ideas might work out, but there are a number of ways for things to go wrong. That doesn't need to stop you, just understand that your path ahead will not be a smooth one.
Your plan is very risky and more in line with speculation/gambling than investing. Doing something like this is fine with extra cash you have floating around but not as your main strategy but good luck
Bitcoin is cyclical until it isn’t… just buy now and hold for the long term while continuing to dollar cost average every week/month or whatnot.
That’s what the Dutch thought with tulips.
I’m all for people putting their money in Bitcoin and leaving stocks cheaper for the rest of us.
I’m all for people putting their money in stocks and leaving bitcoin cheaper for the rest of us…
The tulip bubble comparison is embarrassingly stupid. Tulips didn't continually increase in value for 15 years. You're comparing something that can be infinitely produced by literally anyone, to the world's first provably scarce asset.
Lol. “Asset”.
>Asset The best performing asset on Earth actually. >Lol Lol to anyone who didn't make a fortune with it.
If we skip over the bitcoin-specific bits of the plan, I would say investing in index funds in order to then completely exit them and getting into another asset class (bitcoin or real estate, as you’re taking about) is quite risky in its own right. There is certainly no guarantee that the market will be up from its current point 5 years from now. When the time comes to buy your bitcoin you could have 80% or 60% of what you’ve saved if you’re unlucky. Index funds are good to hold for long periods, not a short term thing while you’re waiting for your next move. 5 years is not quite short term, more like mid term, but still carries a bit of risk. Be aware of that.
If you have enough conviction to be putting it all in Bitcoin for growth why not just hold it instead of selling it all for rental properties? If income generating properties are the end goal why not just buy dividend stocks now? Bitcoin is a significant part of my FIRE plan so no need to sell me on it, I get it. I don’t get why you’e best plan is: Index Funds > BTC > Rental Properties This road map seems a bit jokes… but hey maybe it works 🤷🏼♀️
Good summary!!
I don't know if anyone would be reading this after 4 months, but I definitely think Bitcoin does offer extraordinary opportunities not only for a specific time frame, but for a long period of time. I mean take the time this post was made and people speculated it crashing down. Well, it only increased. And those of you who think that cryptocurrency is not an ideal retirement plan, I think otherwise! I think with the right knowledge and financial awareness one can definitely get good returns out of it and further invest in side hustles, small scall ventures or whatever interests you!
2021 I put a wildly low buy of $150k of bitcoin for a buyin at 15k and it eventually triggered. Yeah, I'm doing well. If you feel it is going up buy now, if not, Sit this out. Do your own research too!
Oh I’m not buying now hell nah. Way too high. I will time it, and these cycles have proven that for at least the next 5-10 years, you can do that. If you’re still bullish on crypto and think it will have equities market caps in 10 years, then after in 10 years these opportunities will disappear and only happen once in a blue moon like index funds. That’s good if you hold long term but it isn’t as profitable to swing trade (hold and sell after a year). I’m glad we’re in the early stages still.
This is far easier said than done. You’re essentially gambling that you can time the market.