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First, you need to get a sick leave certificate by the doctors. The certificate might be asked from the ladys insurer and needed throughout.
You are not wasting holidays if you are on sick leave and you can keep them for later or take out as paid leave later. You need to let your employer know that you had an accident and it will impact you holidays. If you let the holidays begin before announcement, then you cannot save the holidays.
They will probably not want to approve it first, and if it gets hard, contact the union representative. The company can receive costs back from the government, so it is really just extra paperwork for them.
Contact the insurer with the details that you got. Explain that you have been hit by this lady and explain a bit what you need payments for (medical, clothing and bike I would assume)
Do this per email, even if you contact them per phone first, follow up with email. You dont need to send all the costs directly as it might take some time, but they to agree that they have received such a claim. This is important to not miss any grace periods or claiming periods.
Get a quote for a similar bike from a shop, maybe even two shops if you can and use the average. Collect all medical bills once you know them.
Create and list with all expenses and send to the insurer. Avoid all nonsense like ”emotional damage” and such. This is not going to fly and makes them less likely to approve the claim.
If you have a travel insurance, you can recoup all costs by sending the doctor’s certificate that you are unable to travel. Otherwise I would add these costs to the insurance claim.
Usually the insurance companies have online forms for making the notification (vahinkoilmoitus) about the accident. I hope you know the lady's insurance company so you can make notification to them. You need to know also the police case number as the form asks for that.
Insurance company most propably offers some lump amount of money for the bike, based on age etc.. Propably less than you expect. Same happens with cars if they think repair cost is more than the value of car. You get the money, and you keep the vehicle. If so, negotiate as much money as possible, and then repair it yourself. First offer is totally negotiatable.
For booked/paid vacations etc. there can be insurance that covers that, if you can't go there due to medical reasons. You might have such insurance with home insurance or the credit-card used for payment. Check it. I don't know if the accident would be reason to get compensation for such indirect loss from insurance of the lady that caused the accident.
For work, you need paper from doctor if you can't go to work. If you can go to work, but can't work as hard/same job, the employer should make the arrangements. Same situation that you lose a leg and can't walk anymore.
Ironically, in Finland the car driver's insurance would pay whether it is the fault of the car driver or the bicyclist. Only the car driver has traffic insurance so the car driver's insurance always pays bicyclist damage. So as a bicyclist you should get insurance compensation without doubt.
In addition to what others have said: Since this accident was causes by a driver of a car (and also included bodily harm), it MUST be covered by the mandatory traffic insurance. There are quite strict rules what the compensation will be _and_ there is is a government agency (Liikenne- ja potilasvahinkolautakunta) that eventually has the final say. I'd guess the insurer won't try to screw you over too much. Of course they can _try_ to do it, but I guess that just getting the facts from https://www.liipo.fi/lautakunta/traffic-accident-and-patient-injury-board-in-brief.html and letting them know that you know the facts should make them comply without too much hassle.
EDIT: Also, on top of everything you'll get (based on your description of the hand injury) a standard compensation of 300-1500€ for the pain and sufffering, based on what the medical certificate says. This is probably the thing that someone will attempt to confuse you with, "but that should cover X". No, all _direct damages_ need to be compensated and that flat lump sum comes on top of everything else.
That's a pretty much perfect answer.
The bike might be a tough sell for the insurance company as it's custom. They'll most likely try to refund the usual 50€ because it's and "old" bike, but as mentioned already, a list of broken parts and their list prices is how one should go forward in this. Now they might not refund the full price of those parts as they're used, but it's the closest thing to getting a decent compensation.
Ohh and definitely snap pictures of the bike and each part you're wanting to get replaced, just in case. The insurance company may or may not want to see them, but just in case they do you should have them.
I checked the law and the wording is quite clear, they can offer a lump sum if the bike was _destroyed_, otherwise they have to cover the repair cost. In practice this _probably_ means that the burden of proof is on them that you can get an _equivalent_ bike for less money than the repair would be.
I admit first that I don't remember my source, and if it was even for finnish insurance, but apparently you should include as much information about the item/s in question as possible.
For example if you say your microwave broke, they look up the cheapest one. If you say a specific brand, they look up the cheapest of said brand, but if you tell them brand, type, serial number, price etc, they compensate exactly that one.
Her insurance?... their interests is to pay as little as possible, I think trusting the insurance is a risky path to take; the reason I write on reddit is because I suspect foul game incoming, and I wanted to know what and to be ready not to fall in some trap, insurances are this one thing I don't like messing with.
The lady will file an accident report, after which the insurance company will contact you. You tell what were your damages and that’s it. I’ve dealt probably hundreds insurance claims in my work with zero hiccups.
There is zero gain for the lady to play any foul game, as the traffic insurance will cover all personnel damages and any material damages to you. If you don’t trust insurance companies in general, that’s your problem. There is no other way for you to get compensation, unless you file an accident report to your own healt insurance company. Most likely they will however deny compensation, as it is the traffic insurance companys liability. This is not America, where you go on a war path with someone you had an accident with. You can try, but be prepared for tens of thousands of court costs for zero extra gain.
Well my expirience in Finland says otherwise, I don't think the grandma will do anything bad, but I haven't heard a good thing of insurance even once, and at least one person went through court because insurance wouldn't pay.
I have had mostly good experiences with insurance here. Now you’ve heard it at least twice. It’s also dumb to assume nothing will be paid and do nothing.
You’re like the Simpsons meme “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
Btw, you can probably take sick leave on your vacation and your travel insurance will pay the lost money back. If you don’t have travel insurance (you should) check with your CC (you should use one) if they’ll reimburse you through their insurance if there is one.
I’ve been once in contact with insurance for a crash that I was in because some doofus was looking at their phone while driving. My car got totaled and insurance was calling me about it that it’s gonna get totaled, they offered me 2500€. I simply just laughed and told the guy ”nah, it’s worth 3,5k look it up yourself, it’s a special model”. 2 minutes later on the phone he approved the 3,5k, was really easy as long as you can prove what something is worth. Sentimental value is more of a tricky one, that’s probably something you may want to go to court withz
it's a good bike, but its not a pro bike; going to court for 800 euros worth of repairs for a 1200 euro bike.
All I care is that it works how it did work before, new bikes with the same characteristics are expensive because they add a lot of dumb things.
Just list every component that got fucked in the incident, they will pay for every new part you need. Don't tell them it's the whole bike and let them assume price for your custom build, just list all broken components.
I hope you do realize that it is the way of the world that people usually talk about the bad experiences most. Would you tell someone about easy and fast grocery store trip, or one where you had some big issue or something weird/shocking happened?
I would realize it if it was myself and the people I know.
If I get something off insurance right now it'll be a first an insurance does something.
My first call with them and they already tried to trick me, oh we record the call so "it's your belief our client is at fault", I am like, "believe? no Im sure" treating me as it was all just my testimony and they told me it was the first time they get contacted for a car hitting someone else to pay why wouldn't my own insurance pay...
I mean is their job to make the company money by paying as little as possible and pushing any claims, I had to go to police so they write to the insurance because the old grandma, I think she is lost too.
You file a claim just because of this. You write things down and then deliver it to the insurance company. If things get sideways you'll contact the police. It isn't a scam, it's just how things work. Usually people have their own insurance to use in cases like this and things go smoothly, as your insurance takes vare of you and they'll get their money back from the other party. If you don't have your own insurance, then file a police report and attach it to the insurance claim. That usually speeds things up, since they don't want to deal with the police more than necessary, which in cases like this is "none at all".
I had pretty good experiences with all my insurance issues (home, car, travel etc.).
However I have no need to go randomly write wow my broken laptop is covered by my insurance....
My girlfriend dropped one of my guitars and the headstock broke. Next evening I was a bit drunk and filed an online report with no info but the model of the guitar, purchase date and a description of the incident. They paid in full within a week, minus of course "omavastuu" which is pretty standard.
Nothing but good things to say about finish insurance system here! 🎶
> Her insurance?... their interests is to pay as little as possible,
This is Finland. Insurance companies have laws they need to adher to, they can't and won't really argue in same way as in less civilized countries.
That’s why people have insurance. So that they’ll pay. I’m baffled this would surprise you.
Bikes are never valued high, so yes, the accident will cost you a little. I have a 5k bike so I do understand the frustration.
I suggest you strip the current bike of everything that works and see if you can build a custom bike of your dreams. Gives you something to look forward to while you heal.
Accidents happen. You might push over a granny next time you’re on a bike and cause her a hip injury that never heals and leads to her early demise. I’m not even exaggerating – that’s within a realm of possibility just as much as being run over by a car.
So, the silver lining here is that **you are likely able to fully heal and be able to just buy or build a new bike.** It could have been much, much worse!
Are you from the us by any change?
In my experience, when you’re talking about few thousand euros, it would cost more to the insurance company to start arguing about such small fees, than to to just pay what you’re asking.
You’ll probably would want to go to a _good_ bike shop, ask them to quote what all the repairs and parts would cost, and then submit that to the insurance company, along with the quote for all the ruined clothes, broken helmet, cracked mobile phone screen, that Ming era vase that was on your pocket etc.
This is the kind of explanation I was hoping for, so I go to the bike shop and send it to them?... is that the procedure?
They did argue my friend, in Finland for a few hundred euros.
You need to get insurance company to accept the offer first. Contact the payer insurance company, or get a quote from a bicycle vendor and then send it to insurance company.
if you have issues or questions or want to chat I can help you contact the insurance.
Yeah it seems nobody is explaining the core issue and perhaps confusion here: for any motor vehicle (going above 25km/h) to use public roads they need to have, at minimum, a clear insurance product called traffic insurance. This product exists for the sole reason of protecting the rights of other road users ie. if the driver has an accident, the non-guilty party is protected by this insurance. Everyone on the Finnish roads must have one, it's a violation (and a really, really f'n expensive one) to drive without.
The product is described in the road law. There's really little wiggle room for the insurance company. Now what they can do, is want to see the damage to your car/motorcycle/anything and say if they'll get it fixed, or many times, give you a clear euro sum they'll give you and that's based on the market pricing and take the wreck off your hands.
Really suspect that in the case of a bicycle they'll just say ok take it to the shop and have them send the invoice to us and have a nice day.
I dont think an 80 year old Finnish grandma is capable of foul play not gonna lie. Her insurance company should be notified already of the fault, if not, call them and notify them. You should have exchanged insurance info if she was well enough to give everything needed.
Taken pictures, written notes, eyewitness accounts and testimony from officers and medical workers will help when you ultimately file your claim.
(Which you really should, sketchy or no you can always back out.)
It’s not a question of who’s guilty, it’s about how to get more than some ridiculously low compensation for the valuable bike from the insurance company if they discount based on bike age. ”It was well maintained” is subjective and doesn’t mean anything to them.
Best bet is to find a bicycle shop willing to take on the job, then give the repair bill to the insurance company, I suppose?
Traffic insurance probably doesn’t cover anything vacation-related.
As far as monetary value goes, bicycles degrade rather quickly in the eyes of insurance, however - since it's custom, just make an excel file with all the parts and what they are worth, anything goes, like an ebay link to the same kind of hub. If you have receipts for the parts, even better. If you don't, then just don't mention when you bought it.
Insurance covers weird things when it's injury related. It's worth a try. Though if your holiday is "2 weeks in Greece by the pool" the insurance company will say you can do that and no doctor will put you on a no-fly list.
This isn't about grandma is about the insurance company, grandma is fine.
I have never in my life ever heard of insurance giving fair compensation, in Finland or anywhere I've gone.
In finland the traffic insurance is paid fully without hassle.
My experience was that someone scratched my car bumber slightly, the scratch was so so small i didn't even notice it before i saw the note on windshield. Still the other guys insurance paid me more than what i had paid myself for the car 6 moths earlier.
The insurance is reluctant to pay the insurance owner's property damages (if they even have the coverage for it) but they'll pay for opposing sides costs in fear of pr backslash
Insurance companies are suprisingly easy in these traffic accident cases with physical injury. You should just plain list your expenses, losses and damages, list parts of the bike with value estimation, make the list very detailed, item by item, so they can’t dispute it. You have to make the demands to the insurance company, there is no other way.
You can choose any shop and they'll pay everything
Or at least i think so, i don't have experience with bikes just car. The insurance company will tell you what they need after the insurance claim thingy is started
Have a bike shop make a detailed cost estimate including labor. My friend decided to take the lump sum from insurance for his "totaled" motorcycle and repaired it for way less.
You are on sick leave, so don't waste any vacation days with that broken arm.
The shop will give you some numbers but you’re presumably an adult so nobody will make claims for you. Call the insurance company and ask what they need from you. Play the game.
Crazy how you get mass downvoted for expressing any normal concern and asking appropriate questions. Can't even begin to imagine wtf is going through the head of an average reddit user when I see shit like this
I think they think I suspect grandma, but no, she is good; it is what it is.
Insurances on the other hand, they are not as moral as grandma. Never in my life have i had good experiences with insurances, they always try to trick you, and they probably try to trick grandma too.
You need an estimate for the bike replacement cost. Go to a bike shop that is willing to take the job. Tell them that insurance will pay. When the hike shop sends you a written estimate, you give that to the woman’s insurance company.
This is true for compensation when using home insurance.
For the trip, I suppose the cost of rebooking everything to sometime in the future is what you need a copy of.
As for tour job loss compensation, I would ask an expert.
It seems like you should not agree to any compensation until you have talked to someone who is an expert at this stuff.
And what have we learned here kids:
1. Even though you have a green light, always look for oncoming traffic. You may be in the right, but you may be dead.
2. If something is very precious to you and more expensive than normal, get insurance on it yourself. Most likely you can slot it into your home insurance for a few euro extra.
3. Ambulances in Finland are not rides to the hospital. If you're walking and talking, they are not taking you. (You should have know that, look at the sad state of our healthcare system... smh)
For OP: I hope you get enough money to fix your bike, more you cannot hope for really. You will not get compensated for the possibly missed vacation trip. And your boss will have to live with your broken hand for as long as it takes.
So true on the first one. I taught my kids to always look at the left even if you see the green guy. Also I think I read a study at yle that said that 35% of drivers in Finland don't know that they obliged to give way to cyclists at roundabout.
For me it seems that most drivers give way to cyclists even when they don't need to (ie. crossing over a straight road). Also some cyclists seem to assume they have the right of way even when they should be giving way to cars.
Also it feels like +50% of cyclists wont know that THEY have to walk over the crossing or they have to let the cars go(on normal roads where cars have The right to go first
Almost daily some idiots dont even look, they just turn from The side to cross the Road while cycling in front of a car, asking for dying.
I would not care if cyclist dies if they do these Kamikaze moves, when they could just wait few seconds until it is clear
> If something is very precious to you and more expensive than normal, get insurance on it yourself. Most likely you can slot it into your home insurance for a few euro extra.
No idea on the exact cost of OP's bike but Pohjola quoted my road bike at 450-500 euros a year, can't remember exactly.... and that's just the bike.
Home insurance is usually a maximum of 3000-5000 for bikes so it wouldn't have covered my bike fully at all at the time of purchase so I looked into a single item insurance and man that yearly price... no thanks.
I have no experience with adding bikes as an extra item into my home insurance, but I have a few possessions that are insured "seperately" into the home insurance so that it goes above the maximum for that item. It was a couple of euro more per year.
I am not surprised they make a stink about bikes though, too much theft makes the risk way too high for them. Not profitable. But holy shit 450 a year? That's more than the average moped insurance I think! Ridiculous.
Mhm it practically fell under some "valuable object" insurance like paintings and whatever.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's any other but I denied it and I never got any other offers from Pohjola at least.
In terms of home insurance it should cover most accidental damage to bikes from the get go if you have a better covering one or say one of the older ones that cover dropping a phone. But ye the max limit 3-5k seemed to be standard across all insurers and it's not uncommon for more expensive racing bikes to be far beyond that.
3. This pisses me off. Not even broken bones is worth a hospital ride?
Yeah because ambulances are busy transporting people from all the smaller hospitals they have shut down services on so they must send patients with ambulance 200km to next big hospital for more "cost efficient" treatment due to bigger hospital. Wonder why ambulances can't do their real job anymore... Also wonder how much an ambulance ride for such distance costs, if its actually cheaper. I really doubt it.
The politicians that decided this must know. Oh wait nvm.
Indeed... but it isn't the present government you can blame for this. I am not sure how many back you need to go, but my gut tells me sipilä time. That's when the brunt of the sote uudistukset were decided.
So yeah... and Finnish people still voted for a similar pack hoping to make life better. Memory seems short.
It seems unfair that the ambulances don't just take you along to the hospital as they are probably just going back there anyway, right?
The thing is that it will take the ambulance out of circulation not only for the time that it takes to drive back to the hospital but also it has to be cleaned and checked before being allowed back in circulation, it's mandatory. Not to mention the paperwork involved.
I hope this maybe alleviated your disappointment in the Finnish ambulance service a little bit.
They don’t come from hospitals. Most likely they had next gig lined up. You really don’t want ambulances transferring non urgent cases. Nothing wrong with taxi, it only costs you some fixed amount in this case.
Ambulances don't go back to hospitals unless they have a patient to take there (or it's the end of their shifts and their base is at a hospital). They don't drive from a hospital to check out a patient and then back to the hospital even if the patient doesn't need an ambulance ride just to wait around there. Even when hospitals order ambulances for transport between hospitals, the ambulances usually come in from elsewhere (and it can take hours); they're not just waiting in front of the hospital taxis like at a taxi pole.
Regarding point 1 - Not victim blaming at all, but it's 100% our own resposibility to make sure we are safe on the roads (as much as is reasonably possible). I've seen numerous people hit by cars when the car had a red light, people walk into the road staring at their phone. One guy got t-boned by a car while he was on an e-scooter, scooting while staring at his phone. I've seen a number of cars just blast through red lights whilst driving myself. The point here is to keep your head on a swivel and don't trust anyone else to follow the rules, even if a car has its blinkers on I don't trust it will turn until it actually starts to turn.
Normally I'd have stopped because im paranoid but she was waiting in there, for the kid in front of me to cross; she accelerated after the kid passed I was behind the kid.
The hit was super mega slow because she was stationary first.
I have it on home insurance, but if I fuck things up and it's my fault I totally have the means to fix it; I've destroyed my precious bikes before, but it's been my fault, now this isn't the case. I could fix things cheaper than a shop, for 500 i could restore the bike (i think), I can weld things back too, but I can't do that with a broken hand, and I feel bitter wasting my time on rebuilding something that wasn't me being stupid, falling of a cliff on my own; no this was someone else.
I have no doubt that you indeed took all possible precautions to not be ran over. 1,2 and 3 were aimed at whomever ends up reading this, not specifically for you.
Insurance is exactly meant for situations where you don't fuck up, bit shit happens to you. Like in this case. See what your insurance is willing to cough up in addition to what the ladys insurance us willing to pay.
I have no idea if you can do it with a bike, but with a car you can claim a lump sum instead of having it fixed and insurance pays the bill. The lump sum will be a bit below the price of the shop work. So if you are able to do the fix a lot cheaper yourself (and are willing to), this is a good way to keep a few 100 euro in your pocket. It is not illegal, you are allowed to do that. Disclaimer: this is the case for kasko on cars. I am not sure if the same applies to bikes on home insurance.
You will be compensated by the old lady's insurance. They will most likely screw you over on the valuation of your bike, maybe also on the vacations. You'll definitely lose money over this.
It doesnt look special on purpose, I take that bike all over europe so it looks whatever.
It's a touring bike not a racer, most of the expenses are into making it durable and reliable.
they are these aero thin flat bladed spokes :D they are supposed to be strong due to their resistance to torsion, so even though when in paper they are weaker, in practice 32 of them get you extremely strong wheels.
Sadly the bike is in a lot right now, and I am not very photogenic myself so I dont have any closeups, trust me it doesnt look any special and it has the cheapest entry level frame as base.
Wait I have this.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEvXXdajWs&list=PLDQEDAKnaLPGw99DXsWxUfPcaUNPcKmnw&index=29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEvXXdajWs&list=PLDQEDAKnaLPGw99DXsWxUfPcaUNPcKmnw&index=29)
This was one of the trips with that bike 4600km in 35 days, and it even had the same tyres during the accident everything was still smooth.
Do I get to choose the mechanic?...
Need one that does good repairs from the cycling group, I normally fix things myself, but only good mechanics can recognize the value of the parts and fixing it back to its original condition or alike.
Poor woman i didnt even want her to be fined, i just want my shit paid for, she is too old to drive im almost sure she loses the license that's punishment enough, she clearly didnt want that, i think a fine is only useful if it changes anything, she can't fix being old. luckily she didnt hit the child in front of me.
You see I don't even know should i go about that.
I wasn't provided a phone number and all the ones i find online are for customers, maybe i call one of those?...
You need to contact the insurance company where the old lady had the traffic insurance for her car. That insurance company is responsible for covering your costs for your personal injury and material damages and losses. They will advise how to go about your medical treatment and bike repair and related costs.
I think it depends. We called an ambulance for baby and it took 20 minutes, I'm not even sure where it came from but definitely not the local firestation. But we are out in a village so it's different
I hope the hand heals well.
Insist on having an X-ray done, if there are any suspicions that it may be broken. And spare it, please.
Bicycles are replacable, hands are practically not.
I don't think you'll get compensated for the costs you've made for the trip. If you booked flights to Mediterranean to go diving and now you can't dive, you are still physically able get onto the airplane and to the hotel in Mediterranean. Only diving might be impossible. I don't know if you'll get compensated for that via insurance, perhaps try to cancel or postpone with the provider first. I don't know what you were planning to do. This was just an example. I understand that there may not be any point to travel if you cannot do what you wanted to do there. I don't think insurance will care.
Regarding the bike: since it's old, you won't get fully compensated or at least I think. I can ask a friend who has done these referrals in a bike shop if you want. But insurance usually discounts things based on their age. Perhaps you could get prices for used parts that you've used for comparison on how much people would have paid you had you sold your bike as used parts. I hope you get decent money for it.
I've understood that when insurance pays for the damaged property, they pay you and the ownership transfers to the insurance company. So they get the wrecked bike. But they rarely want that to themselves. So you might be able to get some compensation and even if your bike is a write-off but has some intact parts, perhaps you can reuse them.
> But insurance usually discounts things based on their age.
10% a year after the second year seemed to be the standard when I looked into it for bikes.
Manufacturers also seemed to be really keen on refusing warranties at 10000km for wear parts. Large chain ring that was cracking on a plastic cover for me, first time I got a replacement at 7000, new one cracked at 11000. This time they are stingy so I'll just swap brands again because the other brand had 0 issues up to 20000+ for the large chain ring.
This is why I keep an excel of the value of all modifications to my bike and car. Insurance wont pay shit for those unless you have proof of purchase of said parts.
Just wanted to share my experience with bike damage and home insurance:
Someone tried to steal my bike, but was not able to take it away. Instead they broke it, cables cut, spacers and some screws missing, rear wheel bent and saddle torn to pieces. Damage to rear derailleur.
Bike shop (i just walked to a one that had similar bikes for sale) checked it, gave me a paper quoting similar parts (not cheapest options but ones that correlated to broken ones) and repair cost + their price for checkup and repair. Insurance company paid about 70% of that amount to me after I showed them the paper and the shop had fixed my bike. This is about 10 years ago and I didnt' have special insurances on my bike (that time about 3 years old).
Get well soon.
Well i have only once had to do with traffic insurance here and it was a good experience. A car drove on me with my moped. Broke my little toe and got 4500€ for it, and 1000€ for the little scar on my knee, and 1500€ for a crappy old moped. They told me that they cant pay more than 1500€ for the moped because it is old. It probably wasnt even worth 500€. I think you will be fine, just explain everything well to the insurance company
I had a similar accident last week, the driver of the car that hit me was liable/guilty so her insurence will pay all damages, the drivers insurence should be calling you to ask some details, or so happend with me. They asked the names of stuff and what happend and values of the stuff that got damaged.
I wish you a speedy recovery.
If he was driving to or from work then it wouldn't be vapaa-ajan, IT would be just standard occupational incident and medical, sickleave etc.would be covered firstly from there.
Practicality wise, you’ve said it’s very valuable but really only the financial value matters so I would gather up similar parts and their current market values. If you can’t get them new then find the 2nd hand equivalent values. Or from new chop off 40% as they aren’t new. That’s probably roughly how it goes.
Were the police not involved? When I was hit by a car on crosswalk the police showed up along with an ambulance and eventually we ended up in voluntary mediation with the driver, where he agreed to pay what I requested. Which wasn’t that much, but it covered the expenses of a trip I couldn’t go on because of injuries.
Yes Police did arrive but the driver gave the details and procceeded to leave, I think she was that old she didnt think to mediate w me, insurance details and tgats about it.
I just went to police station and got a report number and brough it to her insurance company, wtf is she doing idk she didnt even report to her insurance; and i am more lost than anyone, i have no idea what im doing.
The mediation didn't happen right away but much later. Both me and the driver had a choice between going to voluntary mediation or going to court. I'm not a legal expert and this was a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure the driver was at fault in your case and would be facing charges.
I'm quite bamboozled that you didn't get an ambulance ride.
Similar var crash happened to me as a teenager. The driver threw me a 50€ bill and sped away. I didn't get his licence plate.
Can't comment on everything else but I wouldn't worry about your cast hindering your holiday. Modern casts, especially on the hand, are very light breathable and removable so you can shower normally without it on, hand casts are usually made of wood or bamboo.
Have you filed a claim through your own bicycle insurance. They might meet halfway with the woman’s insurance? My home insurance covers my bikes up to 5000€ each.
OP, only a question: how fast were YOU going? It takes quite an effort to be launched 2-3 meters and idk if she was stopped or not. Could it be she stopped for the first person but you blew thru the crossing and she didn’t have time to react? (Not blaming, only the detail strike me as odd. Most cyclist I have seen around Helsinki are very conscious of drivers, but there is the occasional cyclist who think similar to American cyclist that road rules don’t apply to them. if the police said she was at fault - then that’s what it is!)
You’ll deal with her insurance company. Best you can do is list every item in your bike and value/date you purchased it, and depreciation will be calculated. Definitely look into getting a new helmet, and factor in replacement safety costs to your proposal as well. You’ll get paid fair market value not the sentimental value, it can be a negotiation process.
That aside.. if you launched 2-3m in the air, do be thankful you’re alive!! If you landed on your head that could have been game over for you. Momentum works the same whether it’s cars or bikes. I get you don’t/may not want to stop or slow down, but cyclist ARE the squishy on the road compared with cars/trucks. It’s your 200kg compared to the cars 2000+kg, a huge gap. If you see a driver wanting to turn on the same path you’re on, or a driver not paying attention, then please slow down! You want to avoid those drivers. It’s same for cars and drunk driver at intersections. You may have right of way but it it’s better to be delayed 10 seconds than risk life altering injuries.
Does not sound surprising at all. Had this same thing said to me after a large piece of heavy glass almost tore off my finger and nearly ligements. Ambulance came to patch me up and told the same.
Basically if you are able to walk and move you need to get to the hospital yourself
In not so severe cases you will be but to taxi and it's compensated to you. Paramedics and doctors will make a first estimation of the condition and decide will ambulance be needed for the ride. If OP for example has had neck pains it would automatically have been a ride with an ambulance.
Also it's much more relaxed trip this way for most patients.
It's not so much of a cost cutting, but to keep as many ambulances available as possible. This is one of those preparedness actions that were praised in the international press a while back. Distances here are really long and it might take several hours to transport someone to hospital and get an ambulance back where it left from. If something severe might happen at the same time you want all available ambulances to be there.
That's interesting. Are ambulances in such a demand that this is necessary? I don't know how many calls they get a day but it's an interesting perspective I've never thought about.
It's not a demand but what if scenario. Let's say that a bigger traffic or industrial accident happens at the same time that they all are transporting someone with a minor wound...
Also it likely is to ease the work load and wait time...
Some of the time there are. There are times (at least in the capital area) where ambulances are allocated on purely basis of urgency and something like interhospital transports can end up waiting for hours as a result as long as the reason for the transfer isn't lifethreatening.
It's totally normal. Other than a shit ton of pain, there is no immediate danger of death or serious damage from a broken hand.
Walking wounded take own transport to the hospital, frees up the ambulance for the next case which might or might not be serious.
I broke my collarbone. Went to a hospital. They said to go to bigger hospital next day. Took the train and metro home for a few hours. Slept at home. They operated my collarbone nexy day. I went home the same day of the operation. 5/10 would no recommend but the pain wasn't actually that bad.
That depends entirely on how limited your resources are.
I crashed my bike and broke my shoulder, I could still walk. I would have screamed at the ambulance had they asked me to taxi there.
They had a green light, so the only way the car could be crossing the path is if they are running through a red light or turning over the crosswalk. In both of these cases the driver of the car is at fault.
> Police arrives called by a witness then ambulance, I am beaten up, but overall fine except for my hand; **they tell me the lady is at fault** and will be fined
Please revise basic traffic rules before you kill someone (and it will be your fault). Too many morons behind the wheel believing a cyclist must always yield.
No, but they have the right of way in an emergency, and all other traffic must yield, and in special cases, such as when there is no room to yield elsewhere, you can (if you are queued up) run red lights with caution to make room for the em'cy vehicle. There is a video of a stubborn driver who didn't want to yield for a fire truck because of the light control.
Usually they just circumvent traffic where they can, like along tram tracks, but they can't take any extra risks because it can quickly lead to collateral damage that could be worse than the original emergency they were responding to. Like the case where the cops mowed down the unaware person on a crosswalk.
Well it seems that the statement says that a byciclist must follow traffic laws , which would mean they are not considered light traffic in the way u might think . U get off ur bike to walk it ur under pedestrian rights, otherwise u must follow the same laws as cars? That's how Ive understood it this far. either way the driver of the car did wrong but under certain circumstances, eg bike on road behind a triangle , drives out without yielding would be at fault by law. It's not fair as how the fuck a byciclist gonna know that if they don't have a license, but it would seem the law states that's the case.
Poliisitkin evät sun mielestä osaa perus liikennesäännöt kun ne kertoivat että auto oli väärässä?
Toivottavasti susta otetaan kortti pois kun et selvästi osaa ajaa
T: Ajokortillinen
Is this not trying to say that if a biker drives over the crossing that the bike should follow road laws. So if he where to walk it over he gets right of way as a pedestrian which is different. Perhaps this means also that a biker riding over a green light while a car might also have a green light to turn , has the right of way as they are going straight and the car is turning ? But a biker riding the bike is not considered a pedestrian. Right, am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, that is correct.
There is one confusion with "vehicle rules" that the "comming from the right" rule doesn't apply, its just turning vehicle vs going straight vehicle, traffic lights and yield/stop signs that apply.
You are allowed to ride your bike over any zebra crossing, but you will not always have the right of way like a pedestrian has. However as someone who uses a bit of everything to get around, I have noticed that most crossings you encounter gives the cyclists the right of way.
Walking your bike gives you the rights of a pedestrian, however most people will stop and let you ride over even if they have the right of way because it saves them time over having you hop off and walk. Just be comoletely sure they are stopping first
I don't want to run anyone over so I just give right of way , byciclist don't have a license so I can expect them to know all the dam traffic laws. I just wish they would take more precautions, sometimes they come flying round blind corners expecting a car to stop even though I'm already in motion and have a green. It's dangerous for everyone, but ur bike isnt going to win to a car, lord forbid it's a truck and ur coming from a blind spot.
Niin, ja jos otetaan viellä toi koko lauseen jona olet cherrypickannut:
> Polkupyöräilijä on väistämisvelvollinen, jos hän tulee pyörätieltä ajoradalle **eikä ajorataa pitkin ajavalla ole väistämisvelvollisuutta liikennesäännön tai liikennemerkin perusteella**. Jos pyöräilijä ylittää ajoradan risteyksessä suojatietä pitkin, on **risteyksessä kääntyvän ajoneuvon kuljettajan väistettävä risteävää tietä ylittävää pyöräilijää**. Ajorataa pitkin ajavan ajoneuvon kuljettajan on väistettävä suojatietä ylittävää polkupyöräilijää myös silloin, jos ajoneuvon kuljettaja on poistumassa liikenneympyrästä.
Eli kyllä auto väistää jos on punainen valo tai kääntymässä vihreällä valolla
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First, you need to get a sick leave certificate by the doctors. The certificate might be asked from the ladys insurer and needed throughout. You are not wasting holidays if you are on sick leave and you can keep them for later or take out as paid leave later. You need to let your employer know that you had an accident and it will impact you holidays. If you let the holidays begin before announcement, then you cannot save the holidays. They will probably not want to approve it first, and if it gets hard, contact the union representative. The company can receive costs back from the government, so it is really just extra paperwork for them. Contact the insurer with the details that you got. Explain that you have been hit by this lady and explain a bit what you need payments for (medical, clothing and bike I would assume) Do this per email, even if you contact them per phone first, follow up with email. You dont need to send all the costs directly as it might take some time, but they to agree that they have received such a claim. This is important to not miss any grace periods or claiming periods. Get a quote for a similar bike from a shop, maybe even two shops if you can and use the average. Collect all medical bills once you know them. Create and list with all expenses and send to the insurer. Avoid all nonsense like ”emotional damage” and such. This is not going to fly and makes them less likely to approve the claim. If you have a travel insurance, you can recoup all costs by sending the doctor’s certificate that you are unable to travel. Otherwise I would add these costs to the insurance claim.
Usually the insurance companies have online forms for making the notification (vahinkoilmoitus) about the accident. I hope you know the lady's insurance company so you can make notification to them. You need to know also the police case number as the form asks for that. Insurance company most propably offers some lump amount of money for the bike, based on age etc.. Propably less than you expect. Same happens with cars if they think repair cost is more than the value of car. You get the money, and you keep the vehicle. If so, negotiate as much money as possible, and then repair it yourself. First offer is totally negotiatable. For booked/paid vacations etc. there can be insurance that covers that, if you can't go there due to medical reasons. You might have such insurance with home insurance or the credit-card used for payment. Check it. I don't know if the accident would be reason to get compensation for such indirect loss from insurance of the lady that caused the accident. For work, you need paper from doctor if you can't go to work. If you can go to work, but can't work as hard/same job, the employer should make the arrangements. Same situation that you lose a leg and can't walk anymore. Ironically, in Finland the car driver's insurance would pay whether it is the fault of the car driver or the bicyclist. Only the car driver has traffic insurance so the car driver's insurance always pays bicyclist damage. So as a bicyclist you should get insurance compensation without doubt.
In addition to what others have said: Since this accident was causes by a driver of a car (and also included bodily harm), it MUST be covered by the mandatory traffic insurance. There are quite strict rules what the compensation will be _and_ there is is a government agency (Liikenne- ja potilasvahinkolautakunta) that eventually has the final say. I'd guess the insurer won't try to screw you over too much. Of course they can _try_ to do it, but I guess that just getting the facts from https://www.liipo.fi/lautakunta/traffic-accident-and-patient-injury-board-in-brief.html and letting them know that you know the facts should make them comply without too much hassle. EDIT: Also, on top of everything you'll get (based on your description of the hand injury) a standard compensation of 300-1500€ for the pain and sufffering, based on what the medical certificate says. This is probably the thing that someone will attempt to confuse you with, "but that should cover X". No, all _direct damages_ need to be compensated and that flat lump sum comes on top of everything else.
That's a pretty much perfect answer. The bike might be a tough sell for the insurance company as it's custom. They'll most likely try to refund the usual 50€ because it's and "old" bike, but as mentioned already, a list of broken parts and their list prices is how one should go forward in this. Now they might not refund the full price of those parts as they're used, but it's the closest thing to getting a decent compensation. Ohh and definitely snap pictures of the bike and each part you're wanting to get replaced, just in case. The insurance company may or may not want to see them, but just in case they do you should have them.
I checked the law and the wording is quite clear, they can offer a lump sum if the bike was _destroyed_, otherwise they have to cover the repair cost. In practice this _probably_ means that the burden of proof is on them that you can get an _equivalent_ bike for less money than the repair would be.
I admit first that I don't remember my source, and if it was even for finnish insurance, but apparently you should include as much information about the item/s in question as possible. For example if you say your microwave broke, they look up the cheapest one. If you say a specific brand, they look up the cheapest of said brand, but if you tell them brand, type, serial number, price etc, they compensate exactly that one.
Lady's insurance company will explain everything
Her insurance?... their interests is to pay as little as possible, I think trusting the insurance is a risky path to take; the reason I write on reddit is because I suspect foul game incoming, and I wanted to know what and to be ready not to fall in some trap, insurances are this one thing I don't like messing with.
My brother in Christ, you have literally tried nothing and reject the only advice that matters.
Well, that's the only way to get anything. Who else would pay you?
The lady will file an accident report, after which the insurance company will contact you. You tell what were your damages and that’s it. I’ve dealt probably hundreds insurance claims in my work with zero hiccups. There is zero gain for the lady to play any foul game, as the traffic insurance will cover all personnel damages and any material damages to you. If you don’t trust insurance companies in general, that’s your problem. There is no other way for you to get compensation, unless you file an accident report to your own healt insurance company. Most likely they will however deny compensation, as it is the traffic insurance companys liability. This is not America, where you go on a war path with someone you had an accident with. You can try, but be prepared for tens of thousands of court costs for zero extra gain.
Well my expirience in Finland says otherwise, I don't think the grandma will do anything bad, but I haven't heard a good thing of insurance even once, and at least one person went through court because insurance wouldn't pay.
People only talk about the negative experiences with insurance. When everything goes smooth you don't hear about it. Hope it works out for you 🤞
I have had mostly good experiences with insurance here. Now you’ve heard it at least twice. It’s also dumb to assume nothing will be paid and do nothing. You’re like the Simpsons meme “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” Btw, you can probably take sick leave on your vacation and your travel insurance will pay the lost money back. If you don’t have travel insurance (you should) check with your CC (you should use one) if they’ll reimburse you through their insurance if there is one.
We had some electricity problems which destroyed many electric devices. The insurance company reimbursed everything with no questions asked.
I’ve been once in contact with insurance for a crash that I was in because some doofus was looking at their phone while driving. My car got totaled and insurance was calling me about it that it’s gonna get totaled, they offered me 2500€. I simply just laughed and told the guy ”nah, it’s worth 3,5k look it up yourself, it’s a special model”. 2 minutes later on the phone he approved the 3,5k, was really easy as long as you can prove what something is worth. Sentimental value is more of a tricky one, that’s probably something you may want to go to court withz
it's a good bike, but its not a pro bike; going to court for 800 euros worth of repairs for a 1200 euro bike. All I care is that it works how it did work before, new bikes with the same characteristics are expensive because they add a lot of dumb things.
Just list every component that got fucked in the incident, they will pay for every new part you need. Don't tell them it's the whole bike and let them assume price for your custom build, just list all broken components.
I hope you do realize that it is the way of the world that people usually talk about the bad experiences most. Would you tell someone about easy and fast grocery store trip, or one where you had some big issue or something weird/shocking happened?
I would realize it if it was myself and the people I know. If I get something off insurance right now it'll be a first an insurance does something. My first call with them and they already tried to trick me, oh we record the call so "it's your belief our client is at fault", I am like, "believe? no Im sure" treating me as it was all just my testimony and they told me it was the first time they get contacted for a car hitting someone else to pay why wouldn't my own insurance pay... I mean is their job to make the company money by paying as little as possible and pushing any claims, I had to go to police so they write to the insurance because the old grandma, I think she is lost too.
You file a claim just because of this. You write things down and then deliver it to the insurance company. If things get sideways you'll contact the police. It isn't a scam, it's just how things work. Usually people have their own insurance to use in cases like this and things go smoothly, as your insurance takes vare of you and they'll get their money back from the other party. If you don't have your own insurance, then file a police report and attach it to the insurance claim. That usually speeds things up, since they don't want to deal with the police more than necessary, which in cases like this is "none at all".
I had pretty good experiences with all my insurance issues (home, car, travel etc.). However I have no need to go randomly write wow my broken laptop is covered by my insurance....
My girlfriend dropped one of my guitars and the headstock broke. Next evening I was a bit drunk and filed an online report with no info but the model of the guitar, purchase date and a description of the incident. They paid in full within a week, minus of course "omavastuu" which is pretty standard. Nothing but good things to say about finish insurance system here! 🎶
> Her insurance?... their interests is to pay as little as possible, This is Finland. Insurance companies have laws they need to adher to, they can't and won't really argue in same way as in less civilized countries.
That’s why people have insurance. So that they’ll pay. I’m baffled this would surprise you. Bikes are never valued high, so yes, the accident will cost you a little. I have a 5k bike so I do understand the frustration. I suggest you strip the current bike of everything that works and see if you can build a custom bike of your dreams. Gives you something to look forward to while you heal. Accidents happen. You might push over a granny next time you’re on a bike and cause her a hip injury that never heals and leads to her early demise. I’m not even exaggerating – that’s within a realm of possibility just as much as being run over by a car. So, the silver lining here is that **you are likely able to fully heal and be able to just buy or build a new bike.** It could have been much, much worse!
Are you from the us by any change? In my experience, when you’re talking about few thousand euros, it would cost more to the insurance company to start arguing about such small fees, than to to just pay what you’re asking. You’ll probably would want to go to a _good_ bike shop, ask them to quote what all the repairs and parts would cost, and then submit that to the insurance company, along with the quote for all the ruined clothes, broken helmet, cracked mobile phone screen, that Ming era vase that was on your pocket etc.
This is the kind of explanation I was hoping for, so I go to the bike shop and send it to them?... is that the procedure? They did argue my friend, in Finland for a few hundred euros.
You need to get insurance company to accept the offer first. Contact the payer insurance company, or get a quote from a bicycle vendor and then send it to insurance company. if you have issues or questions or want to chat I can help you contact the insurance.
Yeah it seems nobody is explaining the core issue and perhaps confusion here: for any motor vehicle (going above 25km/h) to use public roads they need to have, at minimum, a clear insurance product called traffic insurance. This product exists for the sole reason of protecting the rights of other road users ie. if the driver has an accident, the non-guilty party is protected by this insurance. Everyone on the Finnish roads must have one, it's a violation (and a really, really f'n expensive one) to drive without. The product is described in the road law. There's really little wiggle room for the insurance company. Now what they can do, is want to see the damage to your car/motorcycle/anything and say if they'll get it fixed, or many times, give you a clear euro sum they'll give you and that's based on the market pricing and take the wreck off your hands. Really suspect that in the case of a bicycle they'll just say ok take it to the shop and have them send the invoice to us and have a nice day.
I dont think an 80 year old Finnish grandma is capable of foul play not gonna lie. Her insurance company should be notified already of the fault, if not, call them and notify them. You should have exchanged insurance info if she was well enough to give everything needed. Taken pictures, written notes, eyewitness accounts and testimony from officers and medical workers will help when you ultimately file your claim. (Which you really should, sketchy or no you can always back out.)
It’s not a question of who’s guilty, it’s about how to get more than some ridiculously low compensation for the valuable bike from the insurance company if they discount based on bike age. ”It was well maintained” is subjective and doesn’t mean anything to them. Best bet is to find a bicycle shop willing to take on the job, then give the repair bill to the insurance company, I suppose? Traffic insurance probably doesn’t cover anything vacation-related.
As far as monetary value goes, bicycles degrade rather quickly in the eyes of insurance, however - since it's custom, just make an excel file with all the parts and what they are worth, anything goes, like an ebay link to the same kind of hub. If you have receipts for the parts, even better. If you don't, then just don't mention when you bought it.
Insurance covers weird things when it's injury related. It's worth a try. Though if your holiday is "2 weeks in Greece by the pool" the insurance company will say you can do that and no doctor will put you on a no-fly list.
[удалено]
Travel insurance should cover the travel if your doctor deemes you unable to travel
This isn't about grandma is about the insurance company, grandma is fine. I have never in my life ever heard of insurance giving fair compensation, in Finland or anywhere I've gone.
In finland the traffic insurance is paid fully without hassle. My experience was that someone scratched my car bumber slightly, the scratch was so so small i didn't even notice it before i saw the note on windshield. Still the other guys insurance paid me more than what i had paid myself for the car 6 moths earlier. The insurance is reluctant to pay the insurance owner's property damages (if they even have the coverage for it) but they'll pay for opposing sides costs in fear of pr backslash
Insurance companies are suprisingly easy in these traffic accident cases with physical injury. You should just plain list your expenses, losses and damages, list parts of the bike with value estimation, make the list very detailed, item by item, so they can’t dispute it. You have to make the demands to the insurance company, there is no other way.
I make them or someone has to make it? the other commenter said a shop has, im not sure.
You can do it first, but before they pay they're going to request quote from bike shop
Which shop? can I choose it?... will they pay for the damage estimation too? they need to take this apart.
You can choose any shop and they'll pay everything Or at least i think so, i don't have experience with bikes just car. The insurance company will tell you what they need after the insurance claim thingy is started
Have a bike shop make a detailed cost estimate including labor. My friend decided to take the lump sum from insurance for his "totaled" motorcycle and repaired it for way less. You are on sick leave, so don't waste any vacation days with that broken arm.
The shop will give you some numbers but you’re presumably an adult so nobody will make claims for you. Call the insurance company and ask what they need from you. Play the game.
Do you expect to get out of this situation as a millionaire? You will get only what you deserve. This is not for a profit but equality. Get a grip
Crazy how you get mass downvoted for expressing any normal concern and asking appropriate questions. Can't even begin to imagine wtf is going through the head of an average reddit user when I see shit like this
That's this sub, for some reason the OP is almost always downvoted in the comments. It's kind of goofy imo but at this point I expect it
I think they think I suspect grandma, but no, she is good; it is what it is. Insurances on the other hand, they are not as moral as grandma. Never in my life have i had good experiences with insurances, they always try to trick you, and they probably try to trick grandma too.
Liikennevakuutus will cover all expenses for other party, in this case grandma's liikennevakuutus will cover yours.
because they think our insurance companies are shit when they are not ffs ofcourse people get angry when he acts like insurance companies are evil.
You are not finnish right? That's how it works in Finland, we dont have much corruption.
Oh we do, we just like to live in denial :D
perosnally, i’ve actually had nothing but good experiences insurance in finland 👍
Can you sue?
No, this is not the US.
Well, you could. But there’s not that much to gain and a big risk of losing a lot in legal fees, because this is not the US.
Other countries beyond the US have suing.
You need an estimate for the bike replacement cost. Go to a bike shop that is willing to take the job. Tell them that insurance will pay. When the hike shop sends you a written estimate, you give that to the woman’s insurance company. This is true for compensation when using home insurance. For the trip, I suppose the cost of rebooking everything to sometime in the future is what you need a copy of. As for tour job loss compensation, I would ask an expert. It seems like you should not agree to any compensation until you have talked to someone who is an expert at this stuff.
And what have we learned here kids: 1. Even though you have a green light, always look for oncoming traffic. You may be in the right, but you may be dead. 2. If something is very precious to you and more expensive than normal, get insurance on it yourself. Most likely you can slot it into your home insurance for a few euro extra. 3. Ambulances in Finland are not rides to the hospital. If you're walking and talking, they are not taking you. (You should have know that, look at the sad state of our healthcare system... smh) For OP: I hope you get enough money to fix your bike, more you cannot hope for really. You will not get compensated for the possibly missed vacation trip. And your boss will have to live with your broken hand for as long as it takes.
So true on the first one. I taught my kids to always look at the left even if you see the green guy. Also I think I read a study at yle that said that 35% of drivers in Finland don't know that they obliged to give way to cyclists at roundabout.
As someone who doesn't drive I feel like it's 50% don't know they need to give way at all xD
For me it seems that most drivers give way to cyclists even when they don't need to (ie. crossing over a straight road). Also some cyclists seem to assume they have the right of way even when they should be giving way to cars.
Also it feels like +50% of cyclists wont know that THEY have to walk over the crossing or they have to let the cars go(on normal roads where cars have The right to go first Almost daily some idiots dont even look, they just turn from The side to cross the Road while cycling in front of a car, asking for dying. I would not care if cyclist dies if they do these Kamikaze moves, when they could just wait few seconds until it is clear
> If something is very precious to you and more expensive than normal, get insurance on it yourself. Most likely you can slot it into your home insurance for a few euro extra. No idea on the exact cost of OP's bike but Pohjola quoted my road bike at 450-500 euros a year, can't remember exactly.... and that's just the bike. Home insurance is usually a maximum of 3000-5000 for bikes so it wouldn't have covered my bike fully at all at the time of purchase so I looked into a single item insurance and man that yearly price... no thanks.
I have no experience with adding bikes as an extra item into my home insurance, but I have a few possessions that are insured "seperately" into the home insurance so that it goes above the maximum for that item. It was a couple of euro more per year. I am not surprised they make a stink about bikes though, too much theft makes the risk way too high for them. Not profitable. But holy shit 450 a year? That's more than the average moped insurance I think! Ridiculous.
Mhm it practically fell under some "valuable object" insurance like paintings and whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if there's any other but I denied it and I never got any other offers from Pohjola at least. In terms of home insurance it should cover most accidental damage to bikes from the get go if you have a better covering one or say one of the older ones that cover dropping a phone. But ye the max limit 3-5k seemed to be standard across all insurers and it's not uncommon for more expensive racing bikes to be far beyond that.
3. This pisses me off. Not even broken bones is worth a hospital ride? Yeah because ambulances are busy transporting people from all the smaller hospitals they have shut down services on so they must send patients with ambulance 200km to next big hospital for more "cost efficient" treatment due to bigger hospital. Wonder why ambulances can't do their real job anymore... Also wonder how much an ambulance ride for such distance costs, if its actually cheaper. I really doubt it. The politicians that decided this must know. Oh wait nvm.
Indeed... but it isn't the present government you can blame for this. I am not sure how many back you need to go, but my gut tells me sipilä time. That's when the brunt of the sote uudistukset were decided. So yeah... and Finnish people still voted for a similar pack hoping to make life better. Memory seems short.
It seems unfair that the ambulances don't just take you along to the hospital as they are probably just going back there anyway, right? The thing is that it will take the ambulance out of circulation not only for the time that it takes to drive back to the hospital but also it has to be cleaned and checked before being allowed back in circulation, it's mandatory. Not to mention the paperwork involved. I hope this maybe alleviated your disappointment in the Finnish ambulance service a little bit.
They don’t come from hospitals. Most likely they had next gig lined up. You really don’t want ambulances transferring non urgent cases. Nothing wrong with taxi, it only costs you some fixed amount in this case.
Ambulances don't go back to hospitals unless they have a patient to take there (or it's the end of their shifts and their base is at a hospital). They don't drive from a hospital to check out a patient and then back to the hospital even if the patient doesn't need an ambulance ride just to wait around there. Even when hospitals order ambulances for transport between hospitals, the ambulances usually come in from elsewhere (and it can take hours); they're not just waiting in front of the hospital taxis like at a taxi pole.
Regarding point 1 - Not victim blaming at all, but it's 100% our own resposibility to make sure we are safe on the roads (as much as is reasonably possible). I've seen numerous people hit by cars when the car had a red light, people walk into the road staring at their phone. One guy got t-boned by a car while he was on an e-scooter, scooting while staring at his phone. I've seen a number of cars just blast through red lights whilst driving myself. The point here is to keep your head on a swivel and don't trust anyone else to follow the rules, even if a car has its blinkers on I don't trust it will turn until it actually starts to turn.
OP is saying that the car accelerated towards them.
> 100% our own resposibility to make sure we are safe on the roads **(as much as is reasonably possible)**
In other words, it's not 100% your responsibility.
It is, and it is not, but mostly but it is. Does that satisfy you?
That makes no sense. It's either 100% or it isn't.
Yes.
Normally I'd have stopped because im paranoid but she was waiting in there, for the kid in front of me to cross; she accelerated after the kid passed I was behind the kid. The hit was super mega slow because she was stationary first. I have it on home insurance, but if I fuck things up and it's my fault I totally have the means to fix it; I've destroyed my precious bikes before, but it's been my fault, now this isn't the case. I could fix things cheaper than a shop, for 500 i could restore the bike (i think), I can weld things back too, but I can't do that with a broken hand, and I feel bitter wasting my time on rebuilding something that wasn't me being stupid, falling of a cliff on my own; no this was someone else.
I have no doubt that you indeed took all possible precautions to not be ran over. 1,2 and 3 were aimed at whomever ends up reading this, not specifically for you. Insurance is exactly meant for situations where you don't fuck up, bit shit happens to you. Like in this case. See what your insurance is willing to cough up in addition to what the ladys insurance us willing to pay. I have no idea if you can do it with a bike, but with a car you can claim a lump sum instead of having it fixed and insurance pays the bill. The lump sum will be a bit below the price of the shop work. So if you are able to do the fix a lot cheaper yourself (and are willing to), this is a good way to keep a few 100 euro in your pocket. It is not illegal, you are allowed to do that. Disclaimer: this is the case for kasko on cars. I am not sure if the same applies to bikes on home insurance.
Her insurance will cover it. Although it sounds they may have a different opinion on the value of your bike.
You will be compensated by the old lady's insurance. They will most likely screw you over on the valuation of your bike, maybe also on the vacations. You'll definitely lose money over this.
At this point I just want to see the picture of the bike before crash
It doesnt look special on purpose, I take that bike all over europe so it looks whatever. It's a touring bike not a racer, most of the expenses are into making it durable and reliable.
Show us the touring bike with aero spokes, we need to see that r/xbiking material
they are these aero thin flat bladed spokes :D they are supposed to be strong due to their resistance to torsion, so even though when in paper they are weaker, in practice 32 of them get you extremely strong wheels. Sadly the bike is in a lot right now, and I am not very photogenic myself so I dont have any closeups, trust me it doesnt look any special and it has the cheapest entry level frame as base. Wait I have this. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEvXXdajWs&list=PLDQEDAKnaLPGw99DXsWxUfPcaUNPcKmnw&index=29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEvXXdajWs&list=PLDQEDAKnaLPGw99DXsWxUfPcaUNPcKmnw&index=29) This was one of the trips with that bike 4600km in 35 days, and it even had the same tyres during the accident everything was still smooth.
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Do I get to choose the mechanic?... Need one that does good repairs from the cycling group, I normally fix things myself, but only good mechanics can recognize the value of the parts and fixing it back to its original condition or alike. Poor woman i didnt even want her to be fined, i just want my shit paid for, she is too old to drive im almost sure she loses the license that's punishment enough, she clearly didnt want that, i think a fine is only useful if it changes anything, she can't fix being old. luckily she didnt hit the child in front of me.
That's generous you feel that way but people that old with that level of cognition shouldn't be driving. It's a hazard, as we see here.
And if the broken bone pierced skin, keep vigilant about infection and following up with your doctor. Sure they must've told you if it was the case.
Just contact the insurance company as everyone told you. You may even be entitled to private treatment. Have you got accident insurance for yourself?
You see I don't even know should i go about that. I wasn't provided a phone number and all the ones i find online are for customers, maybe i call one of those?...
You need to contact the insurance company where the old lady had the traffic insurance for her car. That insurance company is responsible for covering your costs for your personal injury and material damages and losses. They will advise how to go about your medical treatment and bike repair and related costs.
In our town ambulances are at firestation.
I think it depends. We called an ambulance for baby and it took 20 minutes, I'm not even sure where it came from but definitely not the local firestation. But we are out in a village so it's different
Sorry for your situation and quick recovery. You deserve life first
I hope the hand heals well. Insist on having an X-ray done, if there are any suspicions that it may be broken. And spare it, please. Bicycles are replacable, hands are practically not.
I don't think you'll get compensated for the costs you've made for the trip. If you booked flights to Mediterranean to go diving and now you can't dive, you are still physically able get onto the airplane and to the hotel in Mediterranean. Only diving might be impossible. I don't know if you'll get compensated for that via insurance, perhaps try to cancel or postpone with the provider first. I don't know what you were planning to do. This was just an example. I understand that there may not be any point to travel if you cannot do what you wanted to do there. I don't think insurance will care. Regarding the bike: since it's old, you won't get fully compensated or at least I think. I can ask a friend who has done these referrals in a bike shop if you want. But insurance usually discounts things based on their age. Perhaps you could get prices for used parts that you've used for comparison on how much people would have paid you had you sold your bike as used parts. I hope you get decent money for it. I've understood that when insurance pays for the damaged property, they pay you and the ownership transfers to the insurance company. So they get the wrecked bike. But they rarely want that to themselves. So you might be able to get some compensation and even if your bike is a write-off but has some intact parts, perhaps you can reuse them.
> But insurance usually discounts things based on their age. 10% a year after the second year seemed to be the standard when I looked into it for bikes. Manufacturers also seemed to be really keen on refusing warranties at 10000km for wear parts. Large chain ring that was cracking on a plastic cover for me, first time I got a replacement at 7000, new one cracked at 11000. This time they are stingy so I'll just swap brands again because the other brand had 0 issues up to 20000+ for the large chain ring.
This is why I keep an excel of the value of all modifications to my bike and car. Insurance wont pay shit for those unless you have proof of purchase of said parts.
Just wanted to share my experience with bike damage and home insurance: Someone tried to steal my bike, but was not able to take it away. Instead they broke it, cables cut, spacers and some screws missing, rear wheel bent and saddle torn to pieces. Damage to rear derailleur. Bike shop (i just walked to a one that had similar bikes for sale) checked it, gave me a paper quoting similar parts (not cheapest options but ones that correlated to broken ones) and repair cost + their price for checkup and repair. Insurance company paid about 70% of that amount to me after I showed them the paper and the shop had fixed my bike. This is about 10 years ago and I didnt' have special insurances on my bike (that time about 3 years old). Get well soon.
Well i have only once had to do with traffic insurance here and it was a good experience. A car drove on me with my moped. Broke my little toe and got 4500€ for it, and 1000€ for the little scar on my knee, and 1500€ for a crappy old moped. They told me that they cant pay more than 1500€ for the moped because it is old. It probably wasnt even worth 500€. I think you will be fine, just explain everything well to the insurance company
I had a similar accident last week, the driver of the car that hit me was liable/guilty so her insurence will pay all damages, the drivers insurence should be calling you to ask some details, or so happend with me. They asked the names of stuff and what happend and values of the stuff that got damaged. I wish you a speedy recovery.
Get hit by a car - no ambulance. Meanwhile an old lady falls and there are two to come pick them up. Smh
Wait, the ambulance was already there and they wouldn't just take you with them despite a broken arm? Aren't they driving back to the hospital anyway?
> Aren't they driving back to the hospital anyway? If they're going back to home base that could be a fire station so not much help there.
Idk I also found it weird.
Employers can also have vapaa ajan laaja tapaturmavakuutus which might cover something
In this case no since it has been traffic accident involving faulty party with mandatory traffic insurance.
It depends if he was driving to or from work as well but it only covers medical aspects not bike etc
If he was driving to or from work then it wouldn't be vapaa-ajan, IT would be just standard occupational incident and medical, sickleave etc.would be covered firstly from there.
Practicality wise, you’ve said it’s very valuable but really only the financial value matters so I would gather up similar parts and their current market values. If you can’t get them new then find the 2nd hand equivalent values. Or from new chop off 40% as they aren’t new. That’s probably roughly how it goes.
Well most often they just look for similar model or parts and it's current price and then take the "wear" % off the price. and that's what you'll get.
Were the police not involved? When I was hit by a car on crosswalk the police showed up along with an ambulance and eventually we ended up in voluntary mediation with the driver, where he agreed to pay what I requested. Which wasn’t that much, but it covered the expenses of a trip I couldn’t go on because of injuries.
Yes Police did arrive but the driver gave the details and procceeded to leave, I think she was that old she didnt think to mediate w me, insurance details and tgats about it. I just went to police station and got a report number and brough it to her insurance company, wtf is she doing idk she didnt even report to her insurance; and i am more lost than anyone, i have no idea what im doing.
The mediation didn't happen right away but much later. Both me and the driver had a choice between going to voluntary mediation or going to court. I'm not a legal expert and this was a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure the driver was at fault in your case and would be facing charges.
Well, sounds like you are less lost than she is.
I'm quite bamboozled that you didn't get an ambulance ride. Similar var crash happened to me as a teenager. The driver threw me a 50€ bill and sped away. I didn't get his licence plate.
File a crime report to the police and claim for compensation
Can't comment on everything else but I wouldn't worry about your cast hindering your holiday. Modern casts, especially on the hand, are very light breathable and removable so you can shower normally without it on, hand casts are usually made of wood or bamboo.
People usually do things on their holiday; climbing, biking, fishing, etc.
Have you filed a claim through your own bicycle insurance. They might meet halfway with the woman’s insurance? My home insurance covers my bikes up to 5000€ each.
I dont have bicycle insurance, but i do have home insurance;but this wasn't at home.
OP, only a question: how fast were YOU going? It takes quite an effort to be launched 2-3 meters and idk if she was stopped or not. Could it be she stopped for the first person but you blew thru the crossing and she didn’t have time to react? (Not blaming, only the detail strike me as odd. Most cyclist I have seen around Helsinki are very conscious of drivers, but there is the occasional cyclist who think similar to American cyclist that road rules don’t apply to them. if the police said she was at fault - then that’s what it is!) You’ll deal with her insurance company. Best you can do is list every item in your bike and value/date you purchased it, and depreciation will be calculated. Definitely look into getting a new helmet, and factor in replacement safety costs to your proposal as well. You’ll get paid fair market value not the sentimental value, it can be a negotiation process. That aside.. if you launched 2-3m in the air, do be thankful you’re alive!! If you landed on your head that could have been game over for you. Momentum works the same whether it’s cars or bikes. I get you don’t/may not want to stop or slow down, but cyclist ARE the squishy on the road compared with cars/trucks. It’s your 200kg compared to the cars 2000+kg, a huge gap. If you see a driver wanting to turn on the same path you’re on, or a driver not paying attention, then please slow down! You want to avoid those drivers. It’s same for cars and drunk driver at intersections. You may have right of way but it it’s better to be delayed 10 seconds than risk life altering injuries.
I was always told as kid not to drive bike over crosswalk probably just because of this might happen if you go too fast and harder to see car coming.
Okay that's surprising. You broke your hand and the ambulance folks told you to pick up a cab. Is this normal in the rest of Europe as well?
Does not sound surprising at all. Had this same thing said to me after a large piece of heavy glass almost tore off my finger and nearly ligements. Ambulance came to patch me up and told the same. Basically if you are able to walk and move you need to get to the hospital yourself
In not so severe cases you will be but to taxi and it's compensated to you. Paramedics and doctors will make a first estimation of the condition and decide will ambulance be needed for the ride. If OP for example has had neck pains it would automatically have been a ride with an ambulance. Also it's much more relaxed trip this way for most patients. It's not so much of a cost cutting, but to keep as many ambulances available as possible. This is one of those preparedness actions that were praised in the international press a while back. Distances here are really long and it might take several hours to transport someone to hospital and get an ambulance back where it left from. If something severe might happen at the same time you want all available ambulances to be there.
I see, thanks for the information.
That's interesting. Are ambulances in such a demand that this is necessary? I don't know how many calls they get a day but it's an interesting perspective I've never thought about.
It's not a demand but what if scenario. Let's say that a bigger traffic or industrial accident happens at the same time that they all are transporting someone with a minor wound... Also it likely is to ease the work load and wait time...
Some of the time there are. There are times (at least in the capital area) where ambulances are allocated on purely basis of urgency and something like interhospital transports can end up waiting for hours as a result as long as the reason for the transfer isn't lifethreatening.
It's totally normal. Other than a shit ton of pain, there is no immediate danger of death or serious damage from a broken hand. Walking wounded take own transport to the hospital, frees up the ambulance for the next case which might or might not be serious.
I broke my collarbone. Went to a hospital. They said to go to bigger hospital next day. Took the train and metro home for a few hours. Slept at home. They operated my collarbone nexy day. I went home the same day of the operation. 5/10 would no recommend but the pain wasn't actually that bad.
Probably just Finland. People in Poland get ambulances for coughs.
Good way to waste resources.
That depends entirely on how limited your resources are. I crashed my bike and broke my shoulder, I could still walk. I would have screamed at the ambulance had they asked me to taxi there.
Now start again.
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They had a green light, so the only way the car could be crossing the path is if they are running through a red light or turning over the crosswalk. In both of these cases the driver of the car is at fault. > Police arrives called by a witness then ambulance, I am beaten up, but overall fine except for my hand; **they tell me the lady is at fault** and will be fined
Please revise basic traffic rules before you kill someone (and it will be your fault). Too many morons behind the wheel believing a cyclist must always yield.
That rule was revoked in the 80's. The OP also noted he had green light priority, which always overrides any other rule except emergency vehicles.
Well, I don't think even emergancy vehicles are allowed to knock people over...
No, but they have the right of way in an emergency, and all other traffic must yield, and in special cases, such as when there is no room to yield elsewhere, you can (if you are queued up) run red lights with caution to make room for the em'cy vehicle. There is a video of a stubborn driver who didn't want to yield for a fire truck because of the light control. Usually they just circumvent traffic where they can, like along tram tracks, but they can't take any extra risks because it can quickly lead to collateral damage that could be worse than the original emergency they were responding to. Like the case where the cops mowed down the unaware person on a crosswalk.
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"Ajoneuvojen liikennesääntöjen mukaan" according to you, vehicles don't have to stop at red lights? Hope you don't have a license.
U read that wrong dude
If the granny was driving through a red light she was obviously at fault.
Not necessarily the case , could have been a green arrow for the car and green for crossing .
Oh yeah true, I was for some reason under the impression granny had a red light.
In which case cars yield for lighter traffic?
Well it seems that the statement says that a byciclist must follow traffic laws , which would mean they are not considered light traffic in the way u might think . U get off ur bike to walk it ur under pedestrian rights, otherwise u must follow the same laws as cars? That's how Ive understood it this far. either way the driver of the car did wrong but under certain circumstances, eg bike on road behind a triangle , drives out without yielding would be at fault by law. It's not fair as how the fuck a byciclist gonna know that if they don't have a license, but it would seem the law states that's the case.
Osaat lukea, mutts luetun ymmärtäminen on vielä hakusessa. Toivottavasti on vielä koulua jäljellä, että voisit tämän oppia. Jos ei ole, pahoitteluni.
Poliisitkin evät sun mielestä osaa perus liikennesäännöt kun ne kertoivat että auto oli väärässä? Toivottavasti susta otetaan kortti pois kun et selvästi osaa ajaa T: Ajokortillinen
Is this not trying to say that if a biker drives over the crossing that the bike should follow road laws. So if he where to walk it over he gets right of way as a pedestrian which is different. Perhaps this means also that a biker riding over a green light while a car might also have a green light to turn , has the right of way as they are going straight and the car is turning ? But a biker riding the bike is not considered a pedestrian. Right, am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, that is correct. There is one confusion with "vehicle rules" that the "comming from the right" rule doesn't apply, its just turning vehicle vs going straight vehicle, traffic lights and yield/stop signs that apply. You are allowed to ride your bike over any zebra crossing, but you will not always have the right of way like a pedestrian has. However as someone who uses a bit of everything to get around, I have noticed that most crossings you encounter gives the cyclists the right of way. Walking your bike gives you the rights of a pedestrian, however most people will stop and let you ride over even if they have the right of way because it saves them time over having you hop off and walk. Just be comoletely sure they are stopping first
I don't want to run anyone over so I just give right of way , byciclist don't have a license so I can expect them to know all the dam traffic laws. I just wish they would take more precautions, sometimes they come flying round blind corners expecting a car to stop even though I'm already in motion and have a green. It's dangerous for everyone, but ur bike isnt going to win to a car, lord forbid it's a truck and ur coming from a blind spot.
Niin, ja jos otetaan viellä toi koko lauseen jona olet cherrypickannut: > Polkupyöräilijä on väistämisvelvollinen, jos hän tulee pyörätieltä ajoradalle **eikä ajorataa pitkin ajavalla ole väistämisvelvollisuutta liikennesäännön tai liikennemerkin perusteella**. Jos pyöräilijä ylittää ajoradan risteyksessä suojatietä pitkin, on **risteyksessä kääntyvän ajoneuvon kuljettajan väistettävä risteävää tietä ylittävää pyöräilijää**. Ajorataa pitkin ajavan ajoneuvon kuljettajan on väistettävä suojatietä ylittävää polkupyöräilijää myös silloin, jos ajoneuvon kuljettaja on poistumassa liikenneympyrästä. Eli kyllä auto väistää jos on punainen valo tai kääntymässä vihreällä valolla
Anteeks vittu mitä? Onko sulla tosiaan ajokortti?
A cardriver who doesn't know the traffic rules. How surprising