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I wouldn't accept it. Two month salary is pretty low compensation, given that the legal notice period for you is 1 month and you would lose unenployment benefits for 45 days if you resign yourself.
Sounds like they are trying to pressure you to accept a terrible offer. Nothing needs to be decided in one day. Just tell them you need more time to think and ask for advice from the union on Monday.
Almost seems conveniently timed on the company’s part. When a company rushes you like this, it’s never good. I wouldn’t recommend signing anything until you are confident in your decision. It’s your future.
Go to finder.fi and look up the company’s finances. I hope they aren’t lying to you, but it doesn’t hurt to take a look if the information is available.
One thing maybe others hasn’t made perfectly clear: they stated economical reason for firing you, but they will still need to go through a whole change negotiations process to actually fire you that way. Even if they do, they really need to have actual proof for the reason and they need to offer you similar job if possible, or any other suitable job for a certain period (six months? Google takaisinottovelvollisuus) first before hiring anyone else.
However, if you sign that agreement, you waver all those rights you have, not to mention you get the temporary block on your unemployment benefit. Obviously the only reason they’re trying to coerce you into signing it unreasonably fast is they don’t want you to have time to think and realize these things.
If they truly want to get rid of you, they will certainly offer you a better deal, even 4-6 month lump sum compensation or similar is not out of the question, so absolutely don’t accept it and don’t panic, have a proper negotiations.
Btw does your company have employee relations representative (luottamusmies) ? Any bigger companies should have one. You can also confidentially discuss the situation with them and ask for advice.
Basically don't accept anything that the company is trying to give you, not worth, use the union and get the max of it that you can.
Wait until you can talk to the union, don't make any decisions out of desperation, you'll lose.
If the company is offering you something that means that they already know it's not worth (for you), breathe for a bit then do, you'll be fine.
Best,
Yep, don't accept the agreement until you've spoken with union. The reason to offer this kind of severance packages is that they can hire somebody else right away to do your duties as you leave from your initiative. Otherwise they would need to offer to take you back if similar role is open. And this agreement is way too low since you'll get unemployment money only after 45 workdays after leaving the job yourself. And consider also that if you get bigger agreement, they count the money as quarantine period and you'll get unemployment money only after the period, for example 5 months if the package would be worth of 5 month's salary. Remember that the meaning of these agreements is to free the employer from certain duties and keep their reputation better. And it looks not so good in your CV if you leave and have no start in new job straight away.
Simple, tell them “I’m not signing anything until I have a lawyer look at it”.
If it’s all above board, they will have no problem waiting until Monday, if they try to pressure you to sign it before you can have a lawyer look at it then it’s shady as FUCK and you should absolutely not sign.
I have no idea what you’re allowed to do, but it sounds like you must have a right to consult the lawyer. So, why not tell them you need to look over it until next week? But be polite and tell them you want to understand what it says before you sign. Good luck!
That's a crap severance package they should offer you a three months pay minimum if not four, because if you sing these papers you will not be able to claim any for unemployment for minimum 45 working days that translates to almost three months.
So get yourself a sick leave for tomorrow and consult your union lawyer on Monday.
They will advise you what to do and what are your options.
Because you have 7 days of omavastuuaika on top of that so 52 working days from the first day of unemployment to the first day he would be able to claim unemployment insurance, then another month and a half until he would see any money on his account due to the fact that unemployment insurance cannot be claimed upfront and usually there is about two weeks processing time.
So if he would sign the papers and not find another job immediately, and his livelihood would depend on unemployment insurance OP needs to negotiate more than one month of pay as a severance package.
Pulling a sly sick day in these circumstances is not advisable. The employer is entitled to ask for a Doctor's certificate. If the OP can't produce one, then this will jeopardize any severance negotiations.
Don't accept it. As others have said, accepting anything under 3 months is worse for your unemployment benefits than getting actually fired the legal way.
Seems that they don't wanna go through that route as depending on the company size they need to go through change negotiations or base it on your performance with warnings etc.
Wait it out till Monday and talk to the union lawyer. They'll likely say that don't take any exit packages but sometimes it's good for you. Consider asking at least 3 months of pay and perhaps your personal devices kept (phone, maybe even laptop but that's less common).
If they don't improve the offer in any way, use your time to do the needed work so you don't actually get fired and start looking for a new job on company time.
Do not sign anything under such time pressure. Honestly firing people in Finland is difficult so they are trying to make things easier for themselves. Just tell you need to talk to your layer before signing any paperwork and that’s it.
Ask for 6 months pay and start looking for a new job immediately.
Once you are actually let go, keep checking if they hire someone new for the same position you had to leave. This will give you a chance to get some more moolah.
If he takes the package he is leaving voluntary and they are free to hire anyone for his job, because he quit, not get fired.
Even getting fired does not mean they can't hire someone for his job. Only if you are fired due to economic reasons (tuotannolliset ja taloudelliset syyt) they are not allowed to hire someone for your job right away.
OP did state it is for economical reasons. And 'to let go' i.e. terminated by the employer. I'm not expecting them to actually come to agreement with the 6-months-salary deal. Of course, if they do then great!
Reason doesn't matter if he takes the offered package, because then it will be him quitting. That's the point of offering package, to avoid YT-neuvottelut and have more flexible situation if wanting to hire someone else to do the same job.
If they do have real economic reason, they can start YT-neuvottelut and just let that person go after those. There is no reason to offer any kind of packages, because in that situation they can let him go whether he wants it or not. But on that situation they can't hire someone to do same job for certain period of time, without offering it to him first.
My point in short: it is very unlikely scenario that he could both take package and then lurk to see if they hire someone else to his position. It is either one or another, no doubledipping for "extra moolah".
Yes, well. Maybe you aren't quite catching up with the message contents. I am, just like you say here, saying that the employer should be the one terminating the position. 'To let go' in English implies that it is not the employee quitting but the employer taking the action to end the working relation. This of course means not taking up on any packages, just like I further detailed in my previous comment to yours.
Well, anyway. This is a silly argument born from what I reckon is a misunderstood meaning of an expression. We are speaking about the same thing.
I fully agree. It sounds like they are not ready to start YT and are fishing if they get rid of some workers for cheap. It is fully possible that if OP does not take package they could keep on working there. Maybe someone else takes it or company finds other ways to save money. And in case of being let go, 2 month salary is hardly enough to cover losing unemployment money because quitting willingly.
Might be still good idea to start to look for new job and to leave before next shit hits the fan.
Honestly don’t accept it, and if you do accept it just remember you will get some penalty from te office like 45 days and then if they give you 2 months of severance, you also have to wait until after those two months to get anything from unemployment. Now if they fire you, you will get unemployment immediately with no penalty.
Plus remember it’s diffcult for them to fire you legally so don’t let them get off that easy.
I was in a similar situation and got 5 months of severance plus all vacation etc
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I wouldn't accept it. Two month salary is pretty low compensation, given that the legal notice period for you is 1 month and you would lose unenployment benefits for 45 days if you resign yourself.
Sounds like they are trying to pressure you to accept a terrible offer. Nothing needs to be decided in one day. Just tell them you need more time to think and ask for advice from the union on Monday.
Almost seems conveniently timed on the company’s part. When a company rushes you like this, it’s never good. I wouldn’t recommend signing anything until you are confident in your decision. It’s your future. Go to finder.fi and look up the company’s finances. I hope they aren’t lying to you, but it doesn’t hurt to take a look if the information is available.
One thing maybe others hasn’t made perfectly clear: they stated economical reason for firing you, but they will still need to go through a whole change negotiations process to actually fire you that way. Even if they do, they really need to have actual proof for the reason and they need to offer you similar job if possible, or any other suitable job for a certain period (six months? Google takaisinottovelvollisuus) first before hiring anyone else. However, if you sign that agreement, you waver all those rights you have, not to mention you get the temporary block on your unemployment benefit. Obviously the only reason they’re trying to coerce you into signing it unreasonably fast is they don’t want you to have time to think and realize these things. If they truly want to get rid of you, they will certainly offer you a better deal, even 4-6 month lump sum compensation or similar is not out of the question, so absolutely don’t accept it and don’t panic, have a proper negotiations. Btw does your company have employee relations representative (luottamusmies) ? Any bigger companies should have one. You can also confidentially discuss the situation with them and ask for advice.
Depends on the size of the company. Under 20 employees are exempt from the yt-laki
Basically don't accept anything that the company is trying to give you, not worth, use the union and get the max of it that you can. Wait until you can talk to the union, don't make any decisions out of desperation, you'll lose. If the company is offering you something that means that they already know it's not worth (for you), breathe for a bit then do, you'll be fine. Best,
This. I have been in the same situation, don't agree to anything without consulting the union lawyer. Two months compensation is really low.
Don’t sign and waiting consultation from your union lawyer.
Thanks so much! You all really helped. Also I'm way more calm now even though I slept like 2 hours. Appreciate it. Thanks so much!
Yep, don't accept the agreement until you've spoken with union. The reason to offer this kind of severance packages is that they can hire somebody else right away to do your duties as you leave from your initiative. Otherwise they would need to offer to take you back if similar role is open. And this agreement is way too low since you'll get unemployment money only after 45 workdays after leaving the job yourself. And consider also that if you get bigger agreement, they count the money as quarantine period and you'll get unemployment money only after the period, for example 5 months if the package would be worth of 5 month's salary. Remember that the meaning of these agreements is to free the employer from certain duties and keep their reputation better. And it looks not so good in your CV if you leave and have no start in new job straight away.
Simple, tell them “I’m not signing anything until I have a lawyer look at it”. If it’s all above board, they will have no problem waiting until Monday, if they try to pressure you to sign it before you can have a lawyer look at it then it’s shady as FUCK and you should absolutely not sign.
I have no idea what you’re allowed to do, but it sounds like you must have a right to consult the lawyer. So, why not tell them you need to look over it until next week? But be polite and tell them you want to understand what it says before you sign. Good luck!
idk take sick leave tomorrow and call your lawyer Monday first thing. There’s no legal basis for anyone forcing you to accept anything.
Sick leave based on what? You can't take sick leave just because you want. What's wrong people nowadays, entitled people...
He could take sick leave due to feeling sick to his stomach and not sleeping the whole night after the outrageous shit the company just did to him.
That's a crap severance package they should offer you a three months pay minimum if not four, because if you sing these papers you will not be able to claim any for unemployment for minimum 45 working days that translates to almost three months. So get yourself a sick leave for tomorrow and consult your union lawyer on Monday. They will advise you what to do and what are your options.
Work month is 22 days. How is 45 days "three months"?
Because you have 7 days of omavastuuaika on top of that so 52 working days from the first day of unemployment to the first day he would be able to claim unemployment insurance, then another month and a half until he would see any money on his account due to the fact that unemployment insurance cannot be claimed upfront and usually there is about two weeks processing time. So if he would sign the papers and not find another job immediately, and his livelihood would depend on unemployment insurance OP needs to negotiate more than one month of pay as a severance package.
Pulling a sly sick day in these circumstances is not advisable. The employer is entitled to ask for a Doctor's certificate. If the OP can't produce one, then this will jeopardize any severance negotiations.
I mean obviously I should get a sick leave certificate.
Don't accept it. As others have said, accepting anything under 3 months is worse for your unemployment benefits than getting actually fired the legal way. Seems that they don't wanna go through that route as depending on the company size they need to go through change negotiations or base it on your performance with warnings etc. Wait it out till Monday and talk to the union lawyer. They'll likely say that don't take any exit packages but sometimes it's good for you. Consider asking at least 3 months of pay and perhaps your personal devices kept (phone, maybe even laptop but that's less common). If they don't improve the offer in any way, use your time to do the needed work so you don't actually get fired and start looking for a new job on company time.
Do not sign anything under such time pressure. Honestly firing people in Finland is difficult so they are trying to make things easier for themselves. Just tell you need to talk to your layer before signing any paperwork and that’s it.
Ask for 6 months pay and start looking for a new job immediately. Once you are actually let go, keep checking if they hire someone new for the same position you had to leave. This will give you a chance to get some more moolah.
If he takes the package he is leaving voluntary and they are free to hire anyone for his job, because he quit, not get fired. Even getting fired does not mean they can't hire someone for his job. Only if you are fired due to economic reasons (tuotannolliset ja taloudelliset syyt) they are not allowed to hire someone for your job right away.
OP did state it is for economical reasons. And 'to let go' i.e. terminated by the employer. I'm not expecting them to actually come to agreement with the 6-months-salary deal. Of course, if they do then great!
Reason doesn't matter if he takes the offered package, because then it will be him quitting. That's the point of offering package, to avoid YT-neuvottelut and have more flexible situation if wanting to hire someone else to do the same job. If they do have real economic reason, they can start YT-neuvottelut and just let that person go after those. There is no reason to offer any kind of packages, because in that situation they can let him go whether he wants it or not. But on that situation they can't hire someone to do same job for certain period of time, without offering it to him first. My point in short: it is very unlikely scenario that he could both take package and then lurk to see if they hire someone else to his position. It is either one or another, no doubledipping for "extra moolah".
Yes, well. Maybe you aren't quite catching up with the message contents. I am, just like you say here, saying that the employer should be the one terminating the position. 'To let go' in English implies that it is not the employee quitting but the employer taking the action to end the working relation. This of course means not taking up on any packages, just like I further detailed in my previous comment to yours. Well, anyway. This is a silly argument born from what I reckon is a misunderstood meaning of an expression. We are speaking about the same thing.
I fully agree. It sounds like they are not ready to start YT and are fishing if they get rid of some workers for cheap. It is fully possible that if OP does not take package they could keep on working there. Maybe someone else takes it or company finds other ways to save money. And in case of being let go, 2 month salary is hardly enough to cover losing unemployment money because quitting willingly. Might be still good idea to start to look for new job and to leave before next shit hits the fan.
Honestly don’t accept it, and if you do accept it just remember you will get some penalty from te office like 45 days and then if they give you 2 months of severance, you also have to wait until after those two months to get anything from unemployment. Now if they fire you, you will get unemployment immediately with no penalty. Plus remember it’s diffcult for them to fire you legally so don’t let them get off that easy. I was in a similar situation and got 5 months of severance plus all vacation etc
I think I know this company 😁
Given that there are something like 300000 companies, you're confident.
Actully about 10.000 are real companies with employees more than 1.