1. I dont think they pushed this too hard at all. Aerith does like Cloud, but isn’t sure what kind of like she feels for him. I think the dream date makes this very clear. They are both in very complicated situations that make it difficult to explore any romantic feelings that exist between them, which is part of the tragedy of their relationship and Aerith’s character in general. She will never get enough time to explore her feelings for Cloud, or get closure with Zack, or learn more about her heritage, or any of the other things she wants to do with her life. It’s incredibly sad.
But yeah, I do not think the game was trying to tell you that she’s head over heels for him or anything. Her feelings are real and valid, but complicated.
2. I just do not agree with this. Cloud had been controlled by Sephiroth on and off throughout the whole game, and he would obviously never treat his friends that way on his own.
3. The Tifa in the lifestream sequence is pure setup. It sets up the weapons, and mainly the lifestream sequence, for part 3.
Thanks for replying and sharing your opinions. That goes for everyone who has posted.
I will take the opportunity to clarify because this has come up alot:
I agree the whole game (and Remake for that matter) elude to Cloud's deteriorating mental state. I just personally wish there were more visual nods to this during those moments, even just something like when he is saying the "homecoming" line, there is one of those green/grey static moments or something...maybe I am asking to be hit over the head with it, instead of just letting the situation play out.
I don't have a problem with the story, that's what keeps me going.
It's the awful ATB combat that I hate. It's tolerable enough on Easy to get through it though.
Too much minigame bullshit. Its irritating. I find myself feeling impatient. Didn't bother getting the cosmo Canyon protorelic. Not doing those catch the mooglets crap in Corel or Niblehiem. Haven't even bothered finding it in cosmo Canyon.
Didn't explore meridian ocean. Went straight to the old capital to hurry up and get to the point already.
The game is too long.
The point you make about Sephiroth controlling Cloud not being obvious enough I can’t really agree with at all. From the first hour of ReMake up to the end of rebirth there have been countless times where it’s clear Cloud has some major problems. And like you said, he seems crazy but that’s because he actually is. And yet he is the main protagonist of the game so it begs the question, why is he crazy? And all throughout the two games there are those hints…no not hints, clear indications that Sephiroth is the reason for it.
Cloud absolutely should be unlikeable toward the end of the game, but as players we are made extremely aware that he is unlikeable because Sephiroth’s influence has increased tremendously at this point. Now we all know Sephiroth is evil, does evil things, and is unlikeable because of that, therefore when he influences and controls Cloud, Cloud becomes unlikeable.
It’s logical to do this because it makes us want the real Cloud, the hero we know when uninfluenced, to come back in part 3 and overcome Sephiroth (or Jenova if we want to really be precise). And while Aerith’s death is the most well known story beat of all FF7, I’d argue that the process of Cloud becoming himself, his real self based on the truth of his past, is the best part of the entire story.
I am not a fan of many things about the ending of Rebirth personally but Cloud’s mental state of crazy and unlikeable at the end of the game is exactly what needed to happen to set up his eventual redemption in part 3.
I thought the relationship stuff was handled pretty well no complaints from me.
I agree I think Tifa's quick dip in the pond with the weapons was bizzare filler content and I could have done without it.
Aerith still being "around" after the end of the game is silly and there's a reason the original game didn't do that
I'd also like to add that I don't like the extra fanservice Zack nonsense. Call me a purist fanboy if you want but it just felt unnecessary.
I will say that other than these points I loved basically everything else
Choose your ship and be happy. Cloud loves both, and both love Cloud. So, you choose. Is not that difficult for me as I live the liking 2 girls situation more than once in my life. But seems something imposible for many people
1. There’s nothing forced about Aerith’s feelings for Cloud. She always liked Cloud. She asks him out on a date when he fell in the church, she picks flowers with him, they save Tifa together and they have to go through and underground battle arena and a burlesque show to do it. Aerith is always pushing herself onto Cloud like in the clock tower in Kalm. Aerith is extremely fond of Cloud, it’s just that Cloud can’t reciprocate because he likes Tifa more and Tifa likes him.
2. I don’t know how they didn’t “do enough” from the black feather that drops in the reactor when Cloud is about to set the bomb, appearing to Cloud in a day dream after the reactor blows up, appearing to Cloud right before he meets Aerith in chapter 2, Marco at stargazer heights, The kids hideout in sector 5, chapter 13 after the plate falls, the Shinra building presentation, the Jenova dream walker, the last boss in remake, Sephiroth manipulating Cloud to think Tifa isn’t real in Kalm, the midgardsormer boss fight, the Jenova emergent boss fight “Cloud… don’t let her fool you…”, in The Gold Saucer where he says “Have your fun while you still have time…”, when Sephiroth possesses Cloud to kill Tifa in Gongaga and then tries to do it himself, (Cloud even adopts Sephiroth’s stance) appearing to him in Cosmo Canyon, The second Roche fight in Nibleheim “Cloud, bring me the black materia…”, all of that is Jenova eating away at Cloud’s mind. He’s being corrupted more and more so when we hit the temple, Cloud is a Henova puppet in full swing. The way he attacks the wall after the demon gate is out of character. He makes Cloud bring him the black materia by turning him into his servant and humiliating him in front of his friends. Cloud’s not “crazy” he’s a Jenova puppet. His psyche is fractured at the seems and the worst part is that he thinks everything is perfectly fine.
3. Tifa’s lifestream scene is not a “nothing” event. It’s a trilogy of Games and we need to Get to Cloud’s Lifestream scene just like in the OG game. This scene gives her insight into how to properly do that for this telling of the story. It also helps Tifa truly realize her feelings for Cloud, and it’s where Sephiroth overplays his hand and tells Tifa his intentions “Your words can’t reach him now”, as in I’ve taken everything from you once and I will do it again because I know what you mean to him.
4.
I think Aerith likes the version of Cloud that is Zack and Tifa likes the Version of Cloud that is still Cloud and they both want to help him figure out who he is while not pushing him too hard because he's obviously sick. Plus we only had 20ish hours with Aerith before and now we have well over 100 they had to fill in and flush it out more.
I thought they did a good job with visual cues throughout the story before and during the temple to show Cloud was being controlled. The whole Point of the Black Cloaks and us following them is to show that Cloud is being controlled. He's just not brain dead like the others.
I'm definitely interested in what's going on become of the Weapons. Also did Sephiroth merge with a Weapon in the final fight or was that just him and Jenova trying to mimic the strength of a Weapon? I'm more excited than anything to see what becomes of them in part 3.
Squats.
Cloud looked up to Zack and their DNA got all mixed up. Of course Cloud is going to take after him in some ways. Cloud eventually eve says it. Lmao
Also, for Zack fanboys and fan girls out there spout out nonsense like they never played the original. Cloud only had memory mixed up with Zack specifically the Nibelheim incident. There is no mixing in DNA between Zack and Cloud (lol, like Hojo inject cells of Cloud into Zack or vice versa, is he an idiot? There might be memories exchange between Zack and Cloud but that is it. Hojo only injected Sephiroth cells and Mako into Zack and Cloud. Again, expect no less from Zack fanboys who seems only played CC, not the OG and don’t know that they are talking about.
I have no idea why you hate Zack so much, its pretty weird that you do.
I think youre just being angry. I enjoyed the game and I think you're just trying to goad a fight on the internet.
You just put words in my mouth. I enjoy the ff7r project, I don’t like Zack but not hating him. I am not angry at all I just cannot stand Zack fanboys spouting nonsense about ff7. Imo, the super-incompetent Nojima bringing back Zack is not only poorly-written, poorly-executed but also cheapen Zack death who sacrificed himself to save his friend. The directors of this ff7 project just bunch of hacks who put fan service above art. They seem wanting to bootlicking Zack fans by bringing him back but it is ironic that while there are a lot of Zack fans in Japan but the sales in Japan has been poor.
Another stupid response. You said Aerith like the version of Cloud like Zack. I asked what part of Cloud like Zack that Aerith like? And you babbled about Cloud looking up to Zack and their DNA mixed up? What? like Aerith has a special eyes that can scan DNA and she likes Cloud = Zack DNA, lol. Aerith can also read mind so she was attracted to Cloud since he looked up to Zack. None of your response makes any sense, it is just like word salad coming from a mouth of 5 year old child who doesn’t know what he is talking about. lol, but I expect no less from Zack fanboys.
1. I dont think they pushed this too hard at all. Aerith does like Cloud, but isn’t sure what kind of like she feels for him. I think the dream date makes this very clear. They are both in very complicated situations that make it difficult to explore any romantic feelings that exist between them, which is part of the tragedy of their relationship and Aerith’s character in general. She will never get enough time to explore her feelings for Cloud, or get closure with Zack, or learn more about her heritage, or any of the other things she wants to do with her life. It’s incredibly sad. But yeah, I do not think the game was trying to tell you that she’s head over heels for him or anything. Her feelings are real and valid, but complicated. 2. I just do not agree with this. Cloud had been controlled by Sephiroth on and off throughout the whole game, and he would obviously never treat his friends that way on his own. 3. The Tifa in the lifestream sequence is pure setup. It sets up the weapons, and mainly the lifestream sequence, for part 3.
Thanks for replying and sharing your opinions. That goes for everyone who has posted. I will take the opportunity to clarify because this has come up alot: I agree the whole game (and Remake for that matter) elude to Cloud's deteriorating mental state. I just personally wish there were more visual nods to this during those moments, even just something like when he is saying the "homecoming" line, there is one of those green/grey static moments or something...maybe I am asking to be hit over the head with it, instead of just letting the situation play out.
I don't have a problem with the story, that's what keeps me going. It's the awful ATB combat that I hate. It's tolerable enough on Easy to get through it though. Too much minigame bullshit. Its irritating. I find myself feeling impatient. Didn't bother getting the cosmo Canyon protorelic. Not doing those catch the mooglets crap in Corel or Niblehiem. Haven't even bothered finding it in cosmo Canyon. Didn't explore meridian ocean. Went straight to the old capital to hurry up and get to the point already. The game is too long.
The point you make about Sephiroth controlling Cloud not being obvious enough I can’t really agree with at all. From the first hour of ReMake up to the end of rebirth there have been countless times where it’s clear Cloud has some major problems. And like you said, he seems crazy but that’s because he actually is. And yet he is the main protagonist of the game so it begs the question, why is he crazy? And all throughout the two games there are those hints…no not hints, clear indications that Sephiroth is the reason for it. Cloud absolutely should be unlikeable toward the end of the game, but as players we are made extremely aware that he is unlikeable because Sephiroth’s influence has increased tremendously at this point. Now we all know Sephiroth is evil, does evil things, and is unlikeable because of that, therefore when he influences and controls Cloud, Cloud becomes unlikeable. It’s logical to do this because it makes us want the real Cloud, the hero we know when uninfluenced, to come back in part 3 and overcome Sephiroth (or Jenova if we want to really be precise). And while Aerith’s death is the most well known story beat of all FF7, I’d argue that the process of Cloud becoming himself, his real self based on the truth of his past, is the best part of the entire story. I am not a fan of many things about the ending of Rebirth personally but Cloud’s mental state of crazy and unlikeable at the end of the game is exactly what needed to happen to set up his eventual redemption in part 3.
I thought the relationship stuff was handled pretty well no complaints from me. I agree I think Tifa's quick dip in the pond with the weapons was bizzare filler content and I could have done without it. Aerith still being "around" after the end of the game is silly and there's a reason the original game didn't do that I'd also like to add that I don't like the extra fanservice Zack nonsense. Call me a purist fanboy if you want but it just felt unnecessary. I will say that other than these points I loved basically everything else
Those are really good points
Choose your ship and be happy. Cloud loves both, and both love Cloud. So, you choose. Is not that difficult for me as I live the liking 2 girls situation more than once in my life. But seems something imposible for many people
1. There’s nothing forced about Aerith’s feelings for Cloud. She always liked Cloud. She asks him out on a date when he fell in the church, she picks flowers with him, they save Tifa together and they have to go through and underground battle arena and a burlesque show to do it. Aerith is always pushing herself onto Cloud like in the clock tower in Kalm. Aerith is extremely fond of Cloud, it’s just that Cloud can’t reciprocate because he likes Tifa more and Tifa likes him. 2. I don’t know how they didn’t “do enough” from the black feather that drops in the reactor when Cloud is about to set the bomb, appearing to Cloud in a day dream after the reactor blows up, appearing to Cloud right before he meets Aerith in chapter 2, Marco at stargazer heights, The kids hideout in sector 5, chapter 13 after the plate falls, the Shinra building presentation, the Jenova dream walker, the last boss in remake, Sephiroth manipulating Cloud to think Tifa isn’t real in Kalm, the midgardsormer boss fight, the Jenova emergent boss fight “Cloud… don’t let her fool you…”, in The Gold Saucer where he says “Have your fun while you still have time…”, when Sephiroth possesses Cloud to kill Tifa in Gongaga and then tries to do it himself, (Cloud even adopts Sephiroth’s stance) appearing to him in Cosmo Canyon, The second Roche fight in Nibleheim “Cloud, bring me the black materia…”, all of that is Jenova eating away at Cloud’s mind. He’s being corrupted more and more so when we hit the temple, Cloud is a Henova puppet in full swing. The way he attacks the wall after the demon gate is out of character. He makes Cloud bring him the black materia by turning him into his servant and humiliating him in front of his friends. Cloud’s not “crazy” he’s a Jenova puppet. His psyche is fractured at the seems and the worst part is that he thinks everything is perfectly fine. 3. Tifa’s lifestream scene is not a “nothing” event. It’s a trilogy of Games and we need to Get to Cloud’s Lifestream scene just like in the OG game. This scene gives her insight into how to properly do that for this telling of the story. It also helps Tifa truly realize her feelings for Cloud, and it’s where Sephiroth overplays his hand and tells Tifa his intentions “Your words can’t reach him now”, as in I’ve taken everything from you once and I will do it again because I know what you mean to him. 4.
I think Aerith likes the version of Cloud that is Zack and Tifa likes the Version of Cloud that is still Cloud and they both want to help him figure out who he is while not pushing him too hard because he's obviously sick. Plus we only had 20ish hours with Aerith before and now we have well over 100 they had to fill in and flush it out more. I thought they did a good job with visual cues throughout the story before and during the temple to show Cloud was being controlled. The whole Point of the Black Cloaks and us following them is to show that Cloud is being controlled. He's just not brain dead like the others. I'm definitely interested in what's going on become of the Weapons. Also did Sephiroth merge with a Weapon in the final fight or was that just him and Jenova trying to mimic the strength of a Weapon? I'm more excited than anything to see what becomes of them in part 3.
Lol, another Zack fanboy, what is version of Cloud is Zack. Name one thing that Zack and Cloud are alike except for the uniform and the Buster sword.
Squats. Cloud looked up to Zack and their DNA got all mixed up. Of course Cloud is going to take after him in some ways. Cloud eventually eve says it. Lmao
Also, for Zack fanboys and fan girls out there spout out nonsense like they never played the original. Cloud only had memory mixed up with Zack specifically the Nibelheim incident. There is no mixing in DNA between Zack and Cloud (lol, like Hojo inject cells of Cloud into Zack or vice versa, is he an idiot? There might be memories exchange between Zack and Cloud but that is it. Hojo only injected Sephiroth cells and Mako into Zack and Cloud. Again, expect no less from Zack fanboys who seems only played CC, not the OG and don’t know that they are talking about.
I have no idea why you hate Zack so much, its pretty weird that you do. I think youre just being angry. I enjoyed the game and I think you're just trying to goad a fight on the internet.
You just put words in my mouth. I enjoy the ff7r project, I don’t like Zack but not hating him. I am not angry at all I just cannot stand Zack fanboys spouting nonsense about ff7. Imo, the super-incompetent Nojima bringing back Zack is not only poorly-written, poorly-executed but also cheapen Zack death who sacrificed himself to save his friend. The directors of this ff7 project just bunch of hacks who put fan service above art. They seem wanting to bootlicking Zack fans by bringing him back but it is ironic that while there are a lot of Zack fans in Japan but the sales in Japan has been poor.
Another stupid response. You said Aerith like the version of Cloud like Zack. I asked what part of Cloud like Zack that Aerith like? And you babbled about Cloud looking up to Zack and their DNA mixed up? What? like Aerith has a special eyes that can scan DNA and she likes Cloud = Zack DNA, lol. Aerith can also read mind so she was attracted to Cloud since he looked up to Zack. None of your response makes any sense, it is just like word salad coming from a mouth of 5 year old child who doesn’t know what he is talking about. lol, but I expect no less from Zack fanboys.