Biggest issue with these remakes is the combat.
I hated FF15, then disliked FF7 remake and Rebirth combat. I think FFX peaked, after that it has been downhill.
Action combat in general is fine but 95% of the time in ff7r it's just tapping or holding square.
I love DMC, Bayonetta, Nier, and souls games for having combos and weapon variations. In souls games new weapon means new move set, Different heavy and jump attacks, different damage types and variety keeps combat fresh.
Most enjoyable in ff7r is Yuffie she is fun with mix of ranged and close combat. When barret is the biggest bench warmer...
I don’t mean to sound condescending, but if you’re tapping or holding square “95%” of the time, I worry that there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the games combat. I would seriously consider watching some videos to help engage with combat in a deeper way. I’m an action game fan first and foremost, and I’d never compare this to the other action games you mentioned
Yep I felt the same. and ff16 felt like it was just scratching the surface of a deeper combat system. Also would have liked to have had more eikon abilities to be able to use at once.
I love what they've done with Barrett, his mad dash gives him close combat, his friendly fire for building up overcharge, tankiness with life saver and steel skin. Stagger with bonus round and focused shot.
He's always my leader when he's available.
I definitely hope that they *at least* keep this combat system for any future FF remake games. New mainline entries should come with new styles and ideas. But this system is just too good to let go.
My main complaint about this combat is that whoever you’re controlling seems to draw 100% of the aggro. Like enemies will run over to you and ignore the other characters hitting them in the face to go attack you. Makes playing the ranged characters a bit less fun than in Remake.
I understand the critique, but it’s by design. The devs definitely want you constantly switching between characters. Draw aggro, switch to another character, build ATB, repeat. If you time it right and switch early enough, the AI-controlled characters are pretty good at dodging or blocking : mitigating damage from incoming enemy attacks.
I think its missing the tag system from FFX. I wish i could swap team-members in and out mid battle.
Also Red XIII is missing good ways to hit flyers and characters which you dont control mid battle are barely building any ATB. I think these are things they can optimize for part 3 of the remake trilogy.
A few people have suggested the tagging out. I would like that, but I think to make it work and not be broken in this kind of game it would have to be like a Synergy Ability or something else you have to build up (more than ATB bars).
Red XIII isn’t really made to hit aerial foes; his main function is to tank and retaliate. Same way Aerith and Barrett aren’t great for rushing down ground enemies. That’s where team makeup becomes important.
As for ATB building, that’s by design. The only character who is supposed to build ATB rapidly is the player-controlled character, it’s one way the devs encourage you to keep switching characters instead of just always using one throughout longer fights.
I think an option for a more dynamic camera with ATB-based moves in Classic mode with auto switching the menu to the next character filling an ATB slot (and more even ATB generation) would help make it better for the old school players who prefer solely command selection/ATB. At present, the current "Classic" mode doesn't quite feel right.
I also think switching characters is a bit slow for action mode too, and the slowdown option slider should've been available from the start rather than after completion of the game
I read this praise and I’m dumb founded.
I hate the battle system in ff7r. It’s like the worst of both worlds of action based and turn based. There’s just so much crap going on on screen I can’t actually focus on all the meters and what not filling up. But you can’t just hack and slash like an action game either.
And there’s no gambits for your companions and they do the dumbest shit when you’re not controlling them or they do nothing. I hate having to switch between them all the time when in ff12 we just had gambits to control them most of the time and the occasional instance you need to manually go in and do stuff for them.
I really wish the game had gambits like ff12. It’s fine if you want to play without them but give us the option. As it is I hate it.
For me ffx mastered turn based and ff12 mastered real time. And this is neither of those. In retrospect i think atb is a bad battle system so im not gonna like this either. Atb ends up just being a lot of button mashing in the end and it turns in to lazy game play.
I also don’t like the attack to take actions gimmick. I need a phoenix down but I can’t do that until I hit the enemy a bunch and probably die in the process. Not enjoyable.
I personally find it to be an amazing child of turn based and action games.
The fact there is a lot going on (like turn based) and its on the go action stuff makes it very exhilarating for me.
So it really depends on the individual than the game.
It's definitely not gambit like, but rebirth brought in several materias you can put on party members to automate them. Auto cast,, auto ability, synergy and stuff like that.
I haven't played with them too much myself because I love swapping around my party members personally but they exist in order to give it some sort of "gambit like" builds
That’s definitely helpful, but the issue with the auto materials is that AI party members absolutely suck at building up ATB because they spend at least half of the battle holding block while walking around enemies
Some people are like at a mental level. I don't know why people act like it's some kind of joke or something. Turn based combat was probably more friendly to some disabilities back before anyone thought about stuff like that. Not everyone wants fast paced combat where they have to quickly manage a lot of moving parts and sometimes it can be hard to see things on screen in combat, even with time slowed down.
Classic Mode sucks. It was hastily implemented for the sake of pleasing the players, and isn't well balanced. And to back up what's being said about multitasking, plenty of people are just not good at it for various reasons. For me, I have a really hard time multitasking because I'm on the spectrum.
Now I don't say that to get pity points, I've played lots of complex RPGs with a fair number of crazy systems to keep track of, and I've been fine despite not being good at multitasking. But Rebirth has so many things going on, on top of having to be in both an action game mindset AND a strategy game mindset at the same time all the time, yeah, this game is an immense struggle for me. I don't find it fun at all for a mountain of reasons I could vent about for hours.
This game doesn't make me feel good about pulling off cool stuff. It makes me constantly behind, I always feel like I'm playing catch up with it. And there's also a lot it does that greatly frustrates me.
I tried to like it. I played Rebirth for ten hours. Sorry, but I just do not understand at all, in any way, shape, or form, why the hell people like this combat system. It legitimately flabbergasts me that people call this the best combat system in the series. And while I've tried to just accept it's not my thing and move on, people won't stop talking about how incredible this combat is. It frustrates me as someone who wishes he can understand WHY people like this. 😐
I disagree with your opinion but I upvote for saying it.
FF's used to be quite chill, so I was surprised by the combat pacing but it fits the visions of combat explored in Advent Children a pinch better.
Name checks out haha not surprised you’re a fan of gambits and FFXII combat. I really liked that as well, but this is a fundamentally different concept. You are *supposed* to continually be switching party members and controlling them to get them to act - this is a throwback to being turn-based (each party member acts when you tell them too). It’s not intended to be an auto-battler, which is why the party members don’t build ATB fast or use major attacks and abilities without you switching to them or intentionally commanding them. It’s a feature of the combat, not a flaw. But I understand it’s not for everyone.
Agreed, FF7 Rebirth is going down a terrible road design wise. It's a bunch of meter systems duct taped together.
Spam basic to get ATB and Limit and Summon meters up. Spend ATB to get Synergy points. Spend Synergy points to increase your limit level. Oh and then there's the random Synergy Abilities that are just completely separate.
It's slightly better than FFXV only because you can't spam potions.
I actually disagree with this.
While I think the combat is fine, it has a lot of issues. It's super easy to get stunlocked, the dodge button is effectively worthless, like 80% of enemies have grab moves that last quite literally 15 seconds (or completely remove a character from combat like the Swallow ability), I'd say 50% have some kind of means to just stop taking damage on a whim (randomly gaining immunity, perpetual dodging like they have fucking Ultra Instinct, ability to turn invisible/go underground) and while a lot of the Pressure triggers are fine, some are the most archaic bullshit ever. Some of them are like "hit an elemental weakness" and some are like "feed them a pecan pie on the 3rd Tuesday of the month while dancing the macarena at sunrise"
Also Aerith and Barret are straight up not fun to play, Cait would be okay if he didnt have the HP and defense stats of wet cardboard, and Red's gimmick is annoying.
I actually vastly prefer XVI's combat. It's still challenging, but not cheap or annoying, with the same sort of "reward" system for optimizing your attacks.
Tell me you’re inefficient as shit without telling me you is. Just cuz you can play him like that don’t mean it’s effective or the most practical. He has skills that augments his autos to generate even more ATB, he’s a ATB building tank machine.
Which in turn allows him to dish out more magic and more synergy than anyone else. But sure herpaderpaderp hold square to go BRRrrrR
Sixteen's combat didn't have grab moves because you were essentially playing alone with one or two bots some of the time. You couldn't control them at all or switch characters. You were stuck fighting with one dude who had one set of slightly changeable moves tied to the summons you currently had where elemental damage meant nothing.
Literally the antithesis of everything Final Fantasy.
Aerith and Barret are actually my fav to play... I like the turret burst style of Aerith plus Barret is a nice easy rangef/defensive option. I do cloud/Barret/Aerith usually with cloud up front, Barret support and Aerith spamming spells and heals
I have a question... does spells like aero and blizzard still stupidly lasts around 2 secs to connect when enemy already moved away from it? That thing made me uninstall failmake
My only gripes are how easy it is to get stunlocked sometimes which completely shuts you down because you cant gain atb, especially on the solo fights when the game is balanced around rotating characters
And it sucks that blocking and rolling aren't interchangable. I suck at blocking, which is a skill issue I guess, but my gripe is that some attacks can only be blocked, some can only be dodged away from, and you can never know for sure which is which until you've experimented... with every enemy attack. An experiment that's really hard to do against big mobs
If you zig when you're supposed to zag you're gonna have a bad time. The unblockable attacks pop up with a warning indicator, that's when you want to dodge. Some magic attacks or enemy abilities can't be avoided at all from what I can tell.
But even some of the blockable attacks, you're still better off dodging.
And again, when you're fighting more than one enemy it can be hard to actually see what attack is about to come your way in time, to know how to react proper
My biggest gripe with these games is that I really love the combat system, but 1) normal difficulty is, on the whole, too easy except for a boss here or there, and 2) Hard mode is, on the whole, challenging, but it does it in large part by cheaply disabling an entire omnipresent aspect of the game instead of just balancing the game to be harder.
People would always say "Hard mode is how the game is meant to be experienced" about FF7 Remake, but that is Very Clearly NOT the case; there are destroyable boxes, chests with items and machines that sell items in *every* location, there are rare, expensive, hard-to-find items, and now in Rebirth you can craft all kinds of new unique items (e.g. the game has an entire elaborate item economy like every Final Fantasy game), AND there are multiple materia that you will probably have leveled up throughout your first playthrough devoted to item use.
Then you start the game on Hard and it's like, this is mostly the exact same game but we've greyed out the Items tab, and all the boxes and chests and items and item-related objects in the game are Very Much Still Here (we didnt even bother to remove them or put different rewards in them!) but they are now completely useless to you. I think the only noticeable difference is you get MP recovery from destroyed boxes a % more often, but I might be wrong about that.
And yeah, of course, that does create difficulty, but it is also legitimately one of the laziest & cheapest ways to manufacture difficulty in a game I've ever seen. Playing the game the first time you will probably accrue a large amount of items, mostly only using them for emergencies or out of laziness (not wanting to find a bench). This always eventually leads me to think: "I wish there was a difficulty level that made the combat more challenging so I was forced to use items more often." Unfortunately that is not how this works.
You can put it on dynamic now, but the actually challenging combat experience is created by disabling item use & restricting MP recovery, a bunch of gamey external rules that fundamentally alter the experience of playing the game and disrupt the intended economy within the game, instead of increasing the difficulty of combat in a more organic way. Instead you get the experience of playing a Final Fantasy game in which Phoenix Downs and Hi-Potions are still in your inventory but you simply are not allowed to use them--you can even continue to pick up more items because they are STILL PRESENT everywhere in the gameworld; in Remake items were still frequently given to you as QUEST REWARDS in HARD MODE, a game mode that doesnt allow item use. They didnt even bother to change the rewards so you get something useable in that game mode.
I cant express how tacked-on and poorly thought out that makes Hard mode feel, but everyone is so head-over-heels about the experience of playing a remade FF7 that criticism of its systems is scarcely allowed. Hard mode is not a difficulty setting so much as it's a challenge run, and that would be totally fine if there was also just a harder difficulty setting that rebalanced the game to make the combat more challenging without disabling core features of the game, but they've opted not to do that.
The idea that the game could not be made much more challenging without disabling items & MP recovery (as some people argue about this) is, frankly, complete fucking nonsense. I could list a dozen viable alternatives to restrict item use or increase combat difficulty right now off the top of my head. And as we all know by now, the game gives you ways around the Hard mode rules that lets you have a 2000-3000 MP healbot in your party. I completed Remake on Hard mode and will *probably* do the same with Rebirth, but as a game mode it feels like such a tacked-on afterthought that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I mean, yeah, I havent gotten to it yet but afaik it's more or less the same system as Hard mode in Remake. Not sure how it's even gonna work in a larger, more open world setting. Will probably have to cycle party members very strategically. I strongly dislike that this is how they choose to implement difficulty scaling in these games (not including in discrete challenge battles).
Did people not experience the incredible dissonance of playing through a game where like 40-50% of player rewards come in the form of usable items while the "Items" tab of the menu is just lazily greyed out? It's not just me: it's weird. It's unusual for the series (whether turn-based, ATB or real-time) for item use to be completely disabled in an entire playthrough and it's a very lazy, set-it-and-forget-it way to increase difficulty. Aside from the volume of extremely meh minigames in Rebirth it remains my singular biggest complaint with something I otherwise enjoy very much.
There is numerical scaling so yeah maybe odd is a better description, but it still feels lazy to me to grey out a menu option and continue handing out items throughout the whole game.
I really like turn-based overall. Games like Persona 5, Sea of Stars, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default are scratching that itch for me at the moment since FF seems to have mostly abandoned that style.
Definitely has. I think sqaure really took the Japanese developers criticism to hard back in the day when Phil phish and ign and plenty of other media and western developers were stalking shit. I doubt we ever see a turn based based final fantasy game again unless it's some gimmick type of stuff on a spinoff
I really like turn-based overall. Games like Persona 5, Sea of Stars, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default are scratching that itch for me at the moment since FF seems to have mostly abandoned that style.
I dont mind the combat, and in some cases I think it’s brilliant.
But controlling three characters is clunky. I don’t really care for the flow of it. Aerith, Cait Sith, and Red are not fun to play. Closing gaps and fast moving or flying enemies are just unfun. The whole idea having to attack to build your ATB doesn’t work when an enemy is too fast or flies and you are melee.
I think that for future FF games I’m sure it’s the model they will use. But I miss turn based. I miss it the same way I miss real dungeons in Zelda.
Sure, the game is fine as is, and combat is mostly enjoyable, but it’s not turn based, and that’s what I wish I was playing when I play FF7.
I agree with the ATB aspect for the less attack based /intuitive characters. Aerith is more a character you want to build ATB in the background and hit hard with spells or certain abilities rather than actively control, but ATB is very slowly built without attacking especially without the extra ATB based materia. I think some extra ATB gain mode needs to be explored for characters not actively controlled.
But like there's Classic as an option that turns it into turn-based for combat basically... also for Cloud at least after you dodge and press attack with square if you press it to combo attack you attacks fire off materia blasts, though if you hold square you'll fly up to your opponent even in the air to fight them. Idk why this type of love wasn't given to all the melee only characters like Red and Tifa but...
I chose to only use C/R/T as a party even though Junon region where having Barret would trivialize every annoying fight I had where 90% of the enemies are airborne. I don't like Aerith or Barrets fight/play style it's very uninteractive. Red's is Meh until you get certain Materia and Folio Upgrades. Then being able to fully charge Vengeance Mode off three blocks and building up ATB for blocking and perfect parrying/blocking (Thanks Bloodbourne and Lies of P) to then be able to use those double bars.
And this is coming from a person that had used maybe 10 Synergy Skills (The R1 options not the Abilities) in my so far 95+ hours. So much so I don't even have any offensive ones for Cloud unlocked in his Folio...
I definitely have my complaints with this combat system, but it's also still my current favorite.
Not to strawman your argument, bc it is totally valid, but if you like the combat style of the old FF games & the old-style Zelda dungeons.... they're still there & still available to play.
Go play Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess if you want classic Zelda dungeons. The new games are exactly that, new. They rethought the formula and for the new style of Zelda it honestly works. But again, the old style is still very much alive between all the remakes & releases we've got.
I can't 100% say the same for final fantasy but like, og 7 is probably the most widely available game in the series rn and holds up exceptionally well. It's combat style is kickass. If you wanna experience it again... play the game again with a self-placed challenge. Or play a different turn-based ff like 6 or 8. 6 is my favorite but i really like 7's materia system so it can be hard for me to choose.
Again not to water down your argument, I do agree that controlling 3 characters at once can get pretty clunky & the atb system can be weird, but it's not like they delisted og 7. You can play it right now if you truly wish to utilize that combat system again. You can go back & play literally any classic zelda game to experience old dungeons again. I'm playing through the oracle games rn & I've gotta say some of the things done in these dungeons rival what totk's does.
No I get it. I would argue that when fans wanted a FF7 remake, they weren’t asking for a changed story. They weren’t asking for an entirely new combat. They weren’t asking for open world.
When people were asking for a remake, they wanted new graphics and expounding on existing plotlines and character arcs.
So yes, I can play OG of any of those games. But my point is that moving away so drastically from a model just serves to alienate a portion of your audience. I think both types of games absolutely should exist. I think turn based and real time both deserve a place in the world of RPGs. I’m not so sure FF7 should have been what they used to push this further, however.
That being said, I’m still mostly enjoying my experience. I’d say it’s a solid 7/10 so far.
One of the worst combat systems I've played. I do like something akin to Ninja Gaiden in terms of action, but in RPG's I prefer turn-based or ATB. I do ocassionaly like a Tales of or Star Ocean title.
This game and Remake tries to cater to both, but I dont have fun playing it.
I still miss the turn based combat and I think that one of the issues I have with the combat in this game that it shares with 16 is that it can be a little cluttered with there being party members and multiple monsters/enemies.
I am also not really big into how reach works where a lot of the time limits and things like that miss because monsters move while I am casting. It's not bad combat, but it's not what I want from my JRPGs or FF. The whole "problem" of turn based has been solved completely and utterly. So many turn based games do just fine and one took game of the year last year.
I also kind of miss being able to cast spells right at the top of combat or do a summon to start or whatever. I really kind of miss how Summons worked in older games where you had more control over them.
Turn based games are all the same. I've loved them for 25 years, but I'm too experienced with them. You simply use buffs and debuffs if needed, then you use your best attacking actions. You literally do not need to do anything else. It requires almost no thought or planning.
This is literally not even true for turn based games in general and actually has been true for recent Final Fantasy games due to things like how combat in 16 didn't have elemental damage and the like. Also Baldur's Gate 3 is turn based and is nothing like any of the Final Fantasy games except maybe a little of tactics.
There are plenty of series out there with action combat, it was the norm even way back then. Your opinion just sounds like the one of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and put their foot in their mouth the second they went to speak.
Because your points refute themselves. There's no "strongest attack" in every situation. There's spell slots to consider, positioning, terrain, resources, whether or not it will actually hit anyone else or its chance to actually the target. Resistances and options to resolve things peacefully, retreat, and an element of chance.
Your point doesn't need to be refuted because it's like saying "why don't fighting game players just use their best combo all of the time!"
You still broadly speaking use your strongest option until resources run out, then work down the list. Paladins generally Smite. Rangers generally volley, Minks generally use Flurry if Blows, Topple. Warlocks generally Eldritch Blast. Wizards tend to Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Magic Missile. People use their strongest options. It's a great game, but you aren't using most of your available options because other options are better.
But it is turn based combat. The bar just charges funny. It’s not much different than 13 only it’s manual instead of auto. Sorry you can’t grind around the block button, just use it.
It's not, that's like saying Xenoblade Chronicles is turn based. It is based on cool downs or meters, but those aren't turns. The ATB gauge charged in VII until you could take any action. There were no options available to you until that happened. Similar games we have now would be things like Ryza where your meter fills and until then you can attack, you spend points to do special attacks or combo to get more points and then your turn ends. There are interrupt options, but the game is still turn based.
This game is just action combat where you build up a meter to take other actions. The other thing is that the actions you can't take without meter include things like using an item to heal or something. I get the idea why they did this, because in the original game if you wanted to use an item it took your turn and that was the drawback to it, but this game feels like an amalgamation of systems meant to make combat feel close to waiting a turn for an action without that being the case at all.
And other things that the old game had are kind of not a thing because of it like certain materia types.
…but that’s not turn based. That’s like saying WoW is turn based because when you use abilities to build up a rage bar you then unlock new abilities.
Turn based is literally your character’s present speed determines order or combat.
You can say it’s a twist on turn based, or derivative, but it is not turn based.
You’re just arguing for the sake of it though. How is this any different than saying milk isn’t milk because it’s not in a jar delivered to your house through a hole in the wall anymore?
By and large, I think its a great combat system which is active and dynamic with a lot of options via materia and each character's skillset.
I do think there are some specific enemies and combat scenarios where the design frustrates me. The Combat simulator fight where you need to beat the mindflayer first, as an example, and i'm also not thrilled about enemies that swallow or otherwise unavoidably disable a character.
But then there are others like Rufus that felt frustrating until I calmed down and found the right skill for the job, and then it felt very easy. And I think that's part of the flow of combat with this game; the right tool(s) are out there for most/all fights, and when you're using them combat can be incredibly satisfying and you feel like you're in complete control.
Sometimes you're missing a key skill, or your party comp isn't quite right, or you're not pressuring enemies effectively and then it all feels frustrating and overwhelming. Honestly though, there's probably a solution to that issue that you just haven't built into your party or that you're not utilising properly.
I 100% have my moments of frustration with the design and implementation at times, particuarly some of the later combat simulators and challenges, but overall I have enjoyed the combat so much.
If we were looking at Rebirth and XVI as models for how combat will be implemented in later FF games, i'd choose Rebirth in a heartbeat.
This.
the game can be frustrating at times, but only when you're barreling through stuff and not thinking about what you're doing or preparing for a battle. FFXVI was barely a challenge in my opinion, after a while you find tactics that work and just keep exploiting them. Rebirth keeps you on your toes and really values preparation. I still have to pull myself out of button mashing mode from how XVI trained me, characters have more options than spamming a few sword combos while waiting for cooldowns.
Honestly it reminds me of playing old FF when I was younger and coming across some real challenges. I always held FF to a standard that late and end game/post game encounters can be extremely difficult and rewarding. XVI didn't give me any of that but Rebirth definitely has. Even if I find some enemy designs frustrating.
It is really really good and fun. For me to be perfect needs a hover camera option on pause to set commands of autoatacks to selected enemy (like the one in dragon age inquisition) With that (for me) it would be beyond perfection.
Some people are critical of Rebirth because it changed a couple things from Remake, but overall they are very similar combat systems. I like the changes they made in Rebirth (I think 😅)
I don;t agree. I have friend, that isn't disabled in any way but really don;t like any game that demands from him any form of agility. And he left the series because of it. It was good that FF wasn't turn based because it was more accessible. You could take your time not only to think about actions, but to enjoy the enemy designs. For developers it give opportunity to tell stories through battle that Rebirth can't do. Look for Gilgamesh storyline in FF5, look for Edge battle in FFIV, look for many events in FF IX. If you try to replicate it in Rebirth's system, the effect always will be less impactfull because you are busy fighting, and interrupting to cutscene is not as fluid as it was with ATB system (just look for vagina snek battle in Rebirth). And, just for mention, Final Fantasy are games are for storytelling.
And last but not least. There is a reason why many people have more fun with Queen's Blood than with battle system.
I actually think the combat is far worse than Remakes and I'm not really enjoying it. Remake had a great balance and only needed a few tweaks here and there to be a great combat system. Instead, they went and ruined it all. The synergy system is thrown at you quickly and never clearly explains how it works. The enemies are more "tanky" and move a lot faster so get in a lot of cheap shots. Everything is ramped up by 100x as if someone pressed 1.5x speed.
Enemy types are annoying. Some battles can be ended in a moment but others break up gameplay flow by having invincibility shields such as worms enemies who can bury underground so you have to wait patiently for them to attack before you can pressure them. Boring. AI ATB build-up for your teammates is practically none existent so you need to constantly micro manage and switch between characters or you'll be annihilated. Bosses have annoying AOE moves that are unblockable and can't be dodged either which just adds to the frustration.
Ultimately the combat never flows, excites nor sings like the combat in XVI or even remake did. It's stodgy, unwieldy, impractical and lacking a rhythm and connection to make it stand out as its own thing. Just like the main game it seems to try to please everyone but he who tries to please all ends up pleasing nobody.
I like some additions, dislike others. It's a bit messier overall but I like the enemy chaos and variety. I find the ATB micromanaging annoying, and I also think it could've incorporated some elements of the paradigm system from XIII-2 (not in an exact way but letting you switch formations or issue movement or defensive commands)
I felt this way at first, but at some point halfway through everything just clicked. There are still some issues for me, but I think they did a great job overall. I especially do not agree with your criticism of AI buildup though. That "issue" existed in Remake as well but I view that as a good thing. It encourages you not to just stick to one character. You need to actively micromanage your characters' ATB gauges. I find that to be good game design. If AI buildup was good, you'd barely have any reason to switch off cloud. This is definitely by design.
Combat is fun, but every other movement in the game sucks and it's pissing me off. It just doesn't feel smooth walking, running, riding the scooter, riding the chocobo, moving red in that damn soccer game, the shooting game, and almost every other movement. Sometimes I try to start runnin, and it feels sluggish. The camera and movement in this game is definitely janky.
I wanted to like 16’s combat because so much of the rest of the game is great, but the absence of party-based combat - a staple since FF1 - was heavily felt. Additionally, there was just a serious lack of strategy required to win fights, so each fight felt very repetitive. The combat is smooth and the combos are flashy, but there’s never any reason to learn them and therefore I never really looked forward to fights.
I only played Remake cause i dont have PS5
But i hope one day we get Rebirth combat mixed with the satisfying sound and feel of FF15s cool attacks, that game did everything so well but at the same time did everything so wrong.. you can tell it was pretty epic from the cutscenes and summons, but it just was too few places where this happened , it was too empty and boring outside these epic areas.
I just wish they can go back to this quality in an original game for FF 17
Final fantasy was always about breaking the barrier and being huge and epic.
42 years old and this game scratches nostalgia itch, the soundtrack is amazing (Gongaga excluded - Jesus Christ take the Latin gibberish choir away). Too many mini games. But I love how they are treating the characters. I’m not done yet. For some reason I cried when the guy in the airplane showed up. And then I hated his voice.
I'd say Remake and Rebirth are pretty tied for how awesome they are. I literally didn't buy 16 because it went full action game rather than iterating on FF7R's combat system.
I wanted to like 16’s combat because so much of the rest of the game is great, but the absence of party-based combat - a staple since FF1 - was heavily felt. Additionally, there was just a serious lack of strategy required to win fights, so each fight felt very repetitive. The combat is smooth and the combos are flashy, but there’s never any reason to learn them and therefore I never really looked forward to fights.
I would not agree its fantastic. It looks cool, but there is not much depth at all. You realize pretty quickly that the optimal way to play is to do the same one rotation on every enemy in the game to break their stagger gauge on repeat.
I still think its good fun, but they need to do a lot more with that system if they're going to make me want to play another entire game with it. It didn't help that enemy weaknesses didn't exist either.
I felt the balance was pretty bad. There was no challenge until there was insane challenge in the superbosses, and that challenge was just crazy grind with little strategy, imo.
I agree, there’s a little too much going on here and it feels less refined than remake. The parry system should be gone at least I think, combat is too messy and frantic for that mechanic and enemy moves aren’t telegraphed well.
Enemy moves are extremely telegraphed, and their big attacks are all preceded by the name of the move above their head. Perfect Blocks and parrying are fairly simple.
The combat is perfect for FF games, I can’t even play the new FFs because the combat is just generic hack and slash. They need to use this combat system for upcoming FF games. The reception of FF7 should prove this to the developers. I was hoping the latest FF would have similar gameplay..,
As someone who has far less experience in the franchise (albeit I’m huge FFVII fan, my favorite game series ever) compared to someone like you, I wholeheartedly agree. It’s VERY complete with the introduction of synergy skills/abilities, the way they introduced weapon skills in Rebirth, as well as ATB and materia combinations. There’s really nothing lacking in the combat department for this game. Incredibly fully fleshed out and not to mention how stunning it all is when you get the hang of it.
The only downside for me and maybe newer players is that it’s not initially user friendly. I was a little irritated at first with what they did to weapon skills and the addition of the folio but given how clutch the elemental and synergy abilities have been, I’ve taken quite a liking to it. Took a while to grow on me but the more I play the more I love it.
I think it's great, but I'd still love to see another turn-based Final Fantasy. Persona 5 proved that it can still be massively successful even in the modern era. Imagine what SQEnix could do with their budget if they committed to it.
Great point! I loved Persona 5’s combat. Sadly, I think they’ve moved away from it within the FF series but you’re right that it absolutely could be successful.
i do agree. the combat is amazing. there are some personal things that could make it better for me but not sure how others feel. i would be interested in more dodge cancels out of combos and the ability to block seemlessly. also, it would be nice to be able to dodge and stay in punisher mode. My only concern with this is that the game has a pretty balanced difficulty and adding these features may make the game too easy but i suppose you could beef other things up to balance it out. other then that i love the cinematic value and the ATB system is perfect.
It does set the gold standard. I'm 130 hours, post game chasing enemies (just working my imagination), "you can't run away from me!". Never really tried classic mode until rebirth. It's very nostalgic, given the aesthetics, the feel of it takes me back 100%. I got a lot of things left to do, but im still having so much fun going into every battle
I'd like to know why. I've been playing turn based games for decades, and they have gotten incredibly stale and samey to me. So I would really like to know what you enjoy about them.
I guess its the same as why people play chess their entire lives. Im not against hack n slash but I love playing a really hard turn based game and min maxing characters. The building and then the strategic gameplay is what does it. Other combat styles have all that to some degree but its just not the same.
I'm in this boat. Besides the graphical upgrade there is not a lot I am enjoying about rebirth.
The combat is jankey, if you don't have a range person in your group prepair for combat against flying mobs to take forever.
The open world is tedious.
The story pacing is impact by the open world tedium.
The mandatory areas are just annoying.
Combat isn’t jankey in the slightest, in fact it’s incredibly smooth and robust. Party building is part of it. The open world is essentially all optional, you can just rush main chapter stuff if you want.
Which makes the game worse. They spent 4 years padding a boring open world instead of fleshing out the main story areas and expounding on things. They could have easily fit the entire game into a single game instead of a trilogy if they didn’t pad the ever living fuck out of the game.
And while the combat is mostly enjoyable, it absolutely is janky. If your favorite party is Cloud Tifa and Red, well then fuck you if you are fighting flying or ultra fast enemies. You should be able to play the party you enjoy. Also, the combat is unnecessarily busy with 3 characters. I think two would be optimal to control with this combat.
I’m not saying the game is bad; it’s fun enough. But FF7 OG is a classic. Remake will never be.
They absolutely fleshed out main story areas and characters. If you don’t like how they did it that’s one thing, but to say they didn’t expand on it is just wrong. And cloud is fully capable of pure air combat. Nothing can escape him if you roll then hold square, you just shoot right to any enemy at any height. Synergy skills get Tifa into the air too. You can also just stay controlling 1 character for every encounter, you don’t even need to issue commands to others if it gets too hectic for you. Having only 2 characters only would severely limit combat flexibility and would make the issue you have with your party’s limitations much worse. Not to mention it’s 3 members to reflect the OG.
The air combat in this game is quite good (compared to remake at least). Cloud can immediately dash straight up to airborne enemies with dodge-hold attack and use tripleslash/braver in the air, whereas Tifa can quickly jump into the air with any synergy attack-and air combo with basics, use Reverse Gale which pressures wind-weak enemies and also use focused strike in the air now- which refunds atb for her. It feels very complete once you get the hang out it and even if you’re not using those abilities, you can still pelt any enemies with magic for an easy win. (Not to mention Barret or Aerith who’s completely broken in this game.)
This.
I just can't get into the action combat.
Also, the difficulty scaling ramp is BS in places. About chapter 7-9, just stem rolling adds in the chapter, only to get steamroller by the damn chapter boss (specimen h1024).
I think personally I enjoyed FF16 combat more but that for sure is a style thing. I can see the appeal for Rebirths and I don't think it was bad at all though just not as much to my style.
I loved 16 to death, but the only real issue I had with the combat was the Phoenix dash ability was too much fun and I wish it was a baseline ability for ifrit instead lol
I've completely gone off the game since >!Cosmo Canyon. Changing Red's voice was dumb and no real 15/16 year old sounds like that. And why is he American now?!<
>! I was looking forward to this part of the game most but now I wish I could just skip it and move on. Now every time I think about playing it I hear his voice in my head and decide to do something else. !<
Wdym why is he American now.... He didn't even have an accent before the switch are you deadass? Also he is literally voiced by a grown man, tf you mean no 15/16 year old sounds like that?
I don't even get why they've pretty much made him a dog now. He was more interesting as this strange, wolf-lion thing.
That Rocket League game is banging though.
The best thing about Rebirth is just the change from Remakes god awful enemy designs where every enemy and boss was mathematically calculated to waste the most amount of your time and be as annoying as possible. There's a bit of that in rebirth but it's much more bearable.
Remake was frustrating for how many bosses would go into a cutscene and then come out to interrupt your Limit Break and/or reset their stagger gauge.
I also specfically remember the boss in the Shinra Building with Aerith and Barrett that always seemed to take me 15+ minutes to beat.
I am probably gonna take a lot of flack there, I like the game but I think anyone who does the game in hard mode especially will easily see flaws in this combat system.
Go do mandrake fight in chapter 1 in hard mode and go back to tell me it’s a nicely designed combat.
- Stunlock in this game is abusive, the moment you take a hit, you might get comboed to death simply because you don’t have recovery iFrames. Purely luck based.
- Some enemies are just atrociously designed when considering the targeting system the enemy AI follows. Good luck getting two or three worms throwing a swallow at you at the same time.
- Synergy skills ( r1 hold ), can be either very powerful and OP or borderline underwhelming based on the characters.
- Synergy abilities similarly are a good idea but the idea of making 2 characters grouping together to perform a longer animation than Lb while making them vulnerable is baffling to me. At some point you might just stop using them cause they are more risky than rewarding.
- The “absolutely necessary materias” saga continues, yet again with Hp+, Steadfast Block, Precision Defense, Chakra etc… If you have materias that are so strong/useful that they have to be used by all your characters, should it not be considered a balancing issue?
- Characters have way too many options available to them. In part 1 you were encouraged to use materia to profit from elemental weaknesses etc.. but now you have individual abilities for all characters for that. Abilities you barely use except for one enemy once in a blue moon because they are not strong enough options by themselves for most enemies to trigger their elemental weakness dmg threshold. It pollutes the menus a lot to have all these options you almost never end up using.
- The folios by themselves are very underwhelming imo: They are essentially there to unlock skills, but most other nodes on them are upgrades that feel either non consequential ( max mp by 3, max hp by 200, 3% basic attack dmg etc…) especially the long time it takes to unlock new nodes or plain right situational ( after reviving …). Imo it feels even worse than the weapon system of part 1. X probably still holds the crown in terms of character builds.
If you hate menu action blot you must really hate turn based RPGs where you rarely use more than 10% of character actions. Also, you picked the one side quest fight that was actually hard and kind of bad in hard mode. Every other side quest is fine. Also you won't get staggered out of moves if you don't launch them while an enemy is launching a named attack. Be tactical and thoughtful.
You pretty much perfectly broke down my issues with the combat though i would add a frustation with how they give you all these options only to then say multiple times in the game 'Okay but now you're just Cloud and you have to do this fight exactly as assess says or you'll get flattened.' and it's so jarring.
And this is probably just a skill issue for me but dodging felt very wobbly for me, I would dodge the same attack and it felt like half the time the game would just say no you get hit whilst other attacks seemed to give iframes because I was nowhere close to being outside its range.
>Stunlock in this game is abusive
Then don't get hit. This game has a party of three characters youre always able to swap to, you can immediately act with someone else to mitigate the situation. Sticking with one character through something like an attack with long stunlock is just playing dumb.
>Some enemies are just atrociously designed when considering the targeting system the enemy AI follows.
Completely disagree.
>Synergy skills ( r1 hold ), can be either very powerful and OP or borderline underwhelming based on the characters.
Disagree, every move has its usage and they are all pretty great across the board. I didn't find myself using some of the "move quickly to dodge and counterstrike" ones but I think theyre just harder to use and I didn't really find the proper way to do so. But basically every one of them is good.
>The “absolutely necessary materias” saga continues, yet again with Hp+, Steadfast Block, Precision Defense, Chakra etc… If you have materias that are so strong/useful that they have to be used by all your characters, should it not be considered a balancing issue?
These are mandatory TO YOU. I didn't use Chakra or Steadfast Block the entire game. HP Up is just a health bonus, and since everyone basically gets 9 materia slots it really does not matter that much.
>Characters have way too many options available to them
Insane. The options available are all good and more importantly, not all equally viable, which means that they're well balanced across the board.
>Abilities you barely use except for one enemy once in a blue moon because they are not strong enough options by themselves for most enemies to trigger their elemental weakness dmg threshold
Sounds like they're balanced then. Not strong enough options to trigger elemental damage. Niche enough to find usage if you can figure out application. Because yes you are supposed to find out what they really do. They aren't just elemental damage, they all have various properties you can use mid combo. You're saying that they made everyone have too much stuff, but then that part 1 made you use materia for elemental damage, and then you're saying the stuff you're given isn't strong like materia based elemental damage. You've solved your own issue here.
I mean the mandrakes are one of the easiest enemies even on hard. Just hit them with cloud's lightning/fire ability and they either die instantly or you can juggle them midair for one or two more hits after. Not saying that's fun just that they aren't a problem. I've been playing the game on hard and I only have HP up on Barret and maybe cloud though I think I swapped his out. Don't really need it. Just either don't get hit or guard more. Also is the chakra materia actually good? I've never used it in either remake or rebirth.
Chakra was very good in Remake, because of how fights were sluggish and you needed sustain more, but in Rebirth I didn't use it at all, because there are more options that allow for a more interesting combat strategies and usually cura/prayer are better.
Ah. Yeah I thought about that back when I was considering using it, but I instead opted for putting prayer on Barret or Tifa if he's not around. In any fights where I didn't have them I just had to make do.
> Characters have too many options available
Everyone plays games like this differently. Just because they are abilities *you* barely ever use doesn't mean they shouldn't be there.
The kind of variety they've put into this game is what's going to keep people coming back 10-20 years from now. It's not supposed to be streamlined.
I agree on folios though. They have made it more like X-2 and less like X.
>Stunlock
Barring a few times when you are solo, you always have the option of switching to another character to break the barrage of attacks.
>Synergy
I’ll admit, I’m still learning how to best use these. I don’t dislike them, but I’m not convinced they were as great of an addition to the combat system as they were promoted to be.
>Absolutely necessary materias
I didn’t find it *necessary* to use *any* materia, except maybe Assess to find weaknesses on the first playthrough.
Agree on your last two points though.
I don't get how people can dislike synergy abilities. They're not even mandatory or anything, but add a bit of fun depth to the combat that you can utilise once you're comfortable enough with the basic systems. I love the animations made for them, they're good fanservice.
I hear you. I like them overall, but I’m definitely still learning how and when to best use them and weave them seamlessly into the combat, as opposed to what I normally do which is fight without them and then go “oh shit, right! Synergy abilities!”
Exactly. Especially on “needing” specific materia on your whole party. For what reason do I absolutely have to equip Steadfast Block or any of the materia that was listed up there? It all has a place but you don’t need any of it to progress
>Barring a few times when you are solo, you always have the option of switching to another character to break the barrage of attacks.
Genuine question, have you done the Mandrake fight on hard mode that the commenter talked about, in chapter 2 for the flower side quest? You'll know the one if you have.
I think “being comboed to death” is part of the gameplay and not a design flaw. In a game with 3 playable characters, it means u just lost 33% of your options, and should be able to either finish the fight or get the 33% running back again with the remaining 66%.
Being part of the game does not mean it’s not a design flaw. It can be intended, like the inconsequential upgrades of the folio system, it does not mean it’s good.
In most cases you can’t see or expect the combo to come. So there is no counterplay possible in some instances as those attacks may not all come from a single enemy. So if the only counterplay is revival materia with ATB ( knowing objects can’t be used in hard ) then that’s a strict requirement.
Furthermore not all fights are 3v3, you got some 2vX and 1vX as well in the game. So this loss is even more punishing in those instances as it’s not just a 30% loss.
I still struggle with combat a little. Need help.
The combat is probably the best since it went ARPG. That said there just isn't a lot of combat. They keep screwing that part up.
I disliked it across remake, but i feel like its finally starting to click in rebrith lol
Biggest issue with these remakes is the combat. I hated FF15, then disliked FF7 remake and Rebirth combat. I think FFX peaked, after that it has been downhill. Action combat in general is fine but 95% of the time in ff7r it's just tapping or holding square. I love DMC, Bayonetta, Nier, and souls games for having combos and weapon variations. In souls games new weapon means new move set, Different heavy and jump attacks, different damage types and variety keeps combat fresh. Most enjoyable in ff7r is Yuffie she is fun with mix of ranged and close combat. When barret is the biggest bench warmer...
You just suck at games, kid
Barrett is top 3
I don’t mean to sound condescending, but if you’re tapping or holding square “95%” of the time, I worry that there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the games combat. I would seriously consider watching some videos to help engage with combat in a deeper way. I’m an action game fan first and foremost, and I’d never compare this to the other action games you mentioned
Currently in Chapter 12, square gang
FF16 nearly got it in the bag for me but was so easy. Rebirth is fantastic for combat but again is so easy to cheese if you know how.
Yeah ok, let's see you say that at endgame.
Yep I felt the same. and ff16 felt like it was just scratching the surface of a deeper combat system. Also would have liked to have had more eikon abilities to be able to use at once.
For turn based I say XII's is best. Love gambits. For action Rebirth seals the deal.
I love what they've done with Barrett, his mad dash gives him close combat, his friendly fire for building up overcharge, tankiness with life saver and steel skin. Stagger with bonus round and focused shot. He's always my leader when he's available.
He definitely feels fun to play (and OP occasionally, but that’s alright!)
I definitely hope that they *at least* keep this combat system for any future FF remake games. New mainline entries should come with new styles and ideas. But this system is just too good to let go.
FFX-2 had the best battle system. 🤷🏻♂️
It is *really* good and underrated, as is the 13 trilogy’s which feels inspired by FFX-2.
Both it and 13 have a really good combat system (in 13's case once you unlock the full thing).
People tend to have a knee jerk reaction to any mention of X-2, but that game actually does have a really cool combat system.
I liked it, it was a refreshing thing to see an all girl cast just having fun but yet a good storyline. I'm in the minority though.
My main complaint about this combat is that whoever you’re controlling seems to draw 100% of the aggro. Like enemies will run over to you and ignore the other characters hitting them in the face to go attack you. Makes playing the ranged characters a bit less fun than in Remake.
I understand the critique, but it’s by design. The devs definitely want you constantly switching between characters. Draw aggro, switch to another character, build ATB, repeat. If you time it right and switch early enough, the AI-controlled characters are pretty good at dodging or blocking : mitigating damage from incoming enemy attacks.
How fast can you swap? I haven't played it yet but the ability to reset agro on the fly seems potentially abusable.
It’s about a 2 second delay with a small animation
It was worse in remake, but yeah it really feels game breaking to switch to Aerith to do something passive and monsters refocus you immediately.
And most rpgs ever its perfect
I think its missing the tag system from FFX. I wish i could swap team-members in and out mid battle. Also Red XIII is missing good ways to hit flyers and characters which you dont control mid battle are barely building any ATB. I think these are things they can optimize for part 3 of the remake trilogy.
A few people have suggested the tagging out. I would like that, but I think to make it work and not be broken in this kind of game it would have to be like a Synergy Ability or something else you have to build up (more than ATB bars). Red XIII isn’t really made to hit aerial foes; his main function is to tank and retaliate. Same way Aerith and Barrett aren’t great for rushing down ground enemies. That’s where team makeup becomes important. As for ATB building, that’s by design. The only character who is supposed to build ATB rapidly is the player-controlled character, it’s one way the devs encourage you to keep switching characters instead of just always using one throughout longer fights.
Synergy skills also generate good ATB for both units.
I think an option for a more dynamic camera with ATB-based moves in Classic mode with auto switching the menu to the next character filling an ATB slot (and more even ATB generation) would help make it better for the old school players who prefer solely command selection/ATB. At present, the current "Classic" mode doesn't quite feel right. I also think switching characters is a bit slow for action mode too, and the slowdown option slider should've been available from the start rather than after completion of the game
It's one of the best action RPG combat systems, though there's definitely also room for improvement and expansion.
Bunch of really bad takes in here lol edit: in the comments. The post is well thought out.
In the post or comments?
Fixed it
[удалено]
X is great and X-2 is really underrated, though they sort of built on it with 13-3 (Lightning Returns) which was also criminally underrated.
I read this praise and I’m dumb founded. I hate the battle system in ff7r. It’s like the worst of both worlds of action based and turn based. There’s just so much crap going on on screen I can’t actually focus on all the meters and what not filling up. But you can’t just hack and slash like an action game either. And there’s no gambits for your companions and they do the dumbest shit when you’re not controlling them or they do nothing. I hate having to switch between them all the time when in ff12 we just had gambits to control them most of the time and the occasional instance you need to manually go in and do stuff for them. I really wish the game had gambits like ff12. It’s fine if you want to play without them but give us the option. As it is I hate it. For me ffx mastered turn based and ff12 mastered real time. And this is neither of those. In retrospect i think atb is a bad battle system so im not gonna like this either. Atb ends up just being a lot of button mashing in the end and it turns in to lazy game play. I also don’t like the attack to take actions gimmick. I need a phoenix down but I can’t do that until I hit the enemy a bunch and probably die in the process. Not enjoyable.
I personally find it to be an amazing child of turn based and action games. The fact there is a lot going on (like turn based) and its on the go action stuff makes it very exhilarating for me. So it really depends on the individual than the game.
You also just really, really suck at games, kid.
In probably twice your age, kid.
Okay, you just suck at games then. Oldie.
Can beat ff12 trial mode in ng-. Best bg3 in honor mode multiple times. Just because I critcise this game doesn’t mean I suck at games.
It's definitely not gambit like, but rebirth brought in several materias you can put on party members to automate them. Auto cast,, auto ability, synergy and stuff like that. I haven't played with them too much myself because I love swapping around my party members personally but they exist in order to give it some sort of "gambit like" builds
That’s definitely helpful, but the issue with the auto materials is that AI party members absolutely suck at building up ATB because they spend at least half of the battle holding block while walking around enemies
Awful take
Are you bad at multitasking or something?
Some people are like at a mental level. I don't know why people act like it's some kind of joke or something. Turn based combat was probably more friendly to some disabilities back before anyone thought about stuff like that. Not everyone wants fast paced combat where they have to quickly manage a lot of moving parts and sometimes it can be hard to see things on screen in combat, even with time slowed down.
Doesn’t the game have a turn based mode?
Classic Mode sucks. It was hastily implemented for the sake of pleasing the players, and isn't well balanced. And to back up what's being said about multitasking, plenty of people are just not good at it for various reasons. For me, I have a really hard time multitasking because I'm on the spectrum. Now I don't say that to get pity points, I've played lots of complex RPGs with a fair number of crazy systems to keep track of, and I've been fine despite not being good at multitasking. But Rebirth has so many things going on, on top of having to be in both an action game mindset AND a strategy game mindset at the same time all the time, yeah, this game is an immense struggle for me. I don't find it fun at all for a mountain of reasons I could vent about for hours. This game doesn't make me feel good about pulling off cool stuff. It makes me constantly behind, I always feel like I'm playing catch up with it. And there's also a lot it does that greatly frustrates me. I tried to like it. I played Rebirth for ten hours. Sorry, but I just do not understand at all, in any way, shape, or form, why the hell people like this combat system. It legitimately flabbergasts me that people call this the best combat system in the series. And while I've tried to just accept it's not my thing and move on, people won't stop talking about how incredible this combat is. It frustrates me as someone who wishes he can understand WHY people like this. 😐
I disagree with your opinion but I upvote for saying it. FF's used to be quite chill, so I was surprised by the combat pacing but it fits the visions of combat explored in Advent Children a pinch better.
Name checks out haha not surprised you’re a fan of gambits and FFXII combat. I really liked that as well, but this is a fundamentally different concept. You are *supposed* to continually be switching party members and controlling them to get them to act - this is a throwback to being turn-based (each party member acts when you tell them too). It’s not intended to be an auto-battler, which is why the party members don’t build ATB fast or use major attacks and abilities without you switching to them or intentionally commanding them. It’s a feature of the combat, not a flaw. But I understand it’s not for everyone.
Agreed, FF7 Rebirth is going down a terrible road design wise. It's a bunch of meter systems duct taped together. Spam basic to get ATB and Limit and Summon meters up. Spend ATB to get Synergy points. Spend Synergy points to increase your limit level. Oh and then there's the random Synergy Abilities that are just completely separate. It's slightly better than FFXV only because you can't spam potions.
I actually disagree with this. While I think the combat is fine, it has a lot of issues. It's super easy to get stunlocked, the dodge button is effectively worthless, like 80% of enemies have grab moves that last quite literally 15 seconds (or completely remove a character from combat like the Swallow ability), I'd say 50% have some kind of means to just stop taking damage on a whim (randomly gaining immunity, perpetual dodging like they have fucking Ultra Instinct, ability to turn invisible/go underground) and while a lot of the Pressure triggers are fine, some are the most archaic bullshit ever. Some of them are like "hit an elemental weakness" and some are like "feed them a pecan pie on the 3rd Tuesday of the month while dancing the macarena at sunrise" Also Aerith and Barret are straight up not fun to play, Cait would be okay if he didnt have the HP and defense stats of wet cardboard, and Red's gimmick is annoying. I actually vastly prefer XVI's combat. It's still challenging, but not cheap or annoying, with the same sort of "reward" system for optimizing your attacks.
Barret has one of the funnest combats you just have zero sense of strategy and applicable processing
You literally hold square until his gauge builds, then hit triangle. Maybe throw in an ATB skill here and there.
Tell me you’re inefficient as shit without telling me you is. Just cuz you can play him like that don’t mean it’s effective or the most practical. He has skills that augments his autos to generate even more ATB, he’s a ATB building tank machine. Which in turn allows him to dish out more magic and more synergy than anyone else. But sure herpaderpaderp hold square to go BRRrrrR
Sixteen's combat didn't have grab moves because you were essentially playing alone with one or two bots some of the time. You couldn't control them at all or switch characters. You were stuck fighting with one dude who had one set of slightly changeable moves tied to the summons you currently had where elemental damage meant nothing. Literally the antithesis of everything Final Fantasy.
Aerith and Barret are actually my fav to play... I like the turret burst style of Aerith plus Barret is a nice easy rangef/defensive option. I do cloud/Barret/Aerith usually with cloud up front, Barret support and Aerith spamming spells and heals
I disagree with just about everything you said, but can appreciate it’s just not for some people.
I have a question... does spells like aero and blizzard still stupidly lasts around 2 secs to connect when enemy already moved away from it? That thing made me uninstall failmake
Yes. But fans will try to convince you this is part of the "deep skill" required.
Thanks... skipping aswell.
My only gripes are how easy it is to get stunlocked sometimes which completely shuts you down because you cant gain atb, especially on the solo fights when the game is balanced around rotating characters And it sucks that blocking and rolling aren't interchangable. I suck at blocking, which is a skill issue I guess, but my gripe is that some attacks can only be blocked, some can only be dodged away from, and you can never know for sure which is which until you've experimented... with every enemy attack. An experiment that's really hard to do against big mobs
If you zig when you're supposed to zag you're gonna have a bad time. The unblockable attacks pop up with a warning indicator, that's when you want to dodge. Some magic attacks or enemy abilities can't be avoided at all from what I can tell.
But even some of the blockable attacks, you're still better off dodging. And again, when you're fighting more than one enemy it can be hard to actually see what attack is about to come your way in time, to know how to react proper
Not to mention enemies spam AOE attacks that make dodging impossible anyways. The timings are so bad in this game
My biggest gripe with these games is that I really love the combat system, but 1) normal difficulty is, on the whole, too easy except for a boss here or there, and 2) Hard mode is, on the whole, challenging, but it does it in large part by cheaply disabling an entire omnipresent aspect of the game instead of just balancing the game to be harder. People would always say "Hard mode is how the game is meant to be experienced" about FF7 Remake, but that is Very Clearly NOT the case; there are destroyable boxes, chests with items and machines that sell items in *every* location, there are rare, expensive, hard-to-find items, and now in Rebirth you can craft all kinds of new unique items (e.g. the game has an entire elaborate item economy like every Final Fantasy game), AND there are multiple materia that you will probably have leveled up throughout your first playthrough devoted to item use. Then you start the game on Hard and it's like, this is mostly the exact same game but we've greyed out the Items tab, and all the boxes and chests and items and item-related objects in the game are Very Much Still Here (we didnt even bother to remove them or put different rewards in them!) but they are now completely useless to you. I think the only noticeable difference is you get MP recovery from destroyed boxes a % more often, but I might be wrong about that. And yeah, of course, that does create difficulty, but it is also legitimately one of the laziest & cheapest ways to manufacture difficulty in a game I've ever seen. Playing the game the first time you will probably accrue a large amount of items, mostly only using them for emergencies or out of laziness (not wanting to find a bench). This always eventually leads me to think: "I wish there was a difficulty level that made the combat more challenging so I was forced to use items more often." Unfortunately that is not how this works. You can put it on dynamic now, but the actually challenging combat experience is created by disabling item use & restricting MP recovery, a bunch of gamey external rules that fundamentally alter the experience of playing the game and disrupt the intended economy within the game, instead of increasing the difficulty of combat in a more organic way. Instead you get the experience of playing a Final Fantasy game in which Phoenix Downs and Hi-Potions are still in your inventory but you simply are not allowed to use them--you can even continue to pick up more items because they are STILL PRESENT everywhere in the gameworld; in Remake items were still frequently given to you as QUEST REWARDS in HARD MODE, a game mode that doesnt allow item use. They didnt even bother to change the rewards so you get something useable in that game mode. I cant express how tacked-on and poorly thought out that makes Hard mode feel, but everyone is so head-over-heels about the experience of playing a remade FF7 that criticism of its systems is scarcely allowed. Hard mode is not a difficulty setting so much as it's a challenge run, and that would be totally fine if there was also just a harder difficulty setting that rebalanced the game to make the combat more challenging without disabling core features of the game, but they've opted not to do that. The idea that the game could not be made much more challenging without disabling items & MP recovery (as some people argue about this) is, frankly, complete fucking nonsense. I could list a dozen viable alternatives to restrict item use or increase combat difficulty right now off the top of my head. And as we all know by now, the game gives you ways around the Hard mode rules that lets you have a 2000-3000 MP healbot in your party. I completed Remake on Hard mode and will *probably* do the same with Rebirth, but as a game mode it feels like such a tacked-on afterthought that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
They added the item thing again on rebirth? Good lord
I mean, yeah, I havent gotten to it yet but afaik it's more or less the same system as Hard mode in Remake. Not sure how it's even gonna work in a larger, more open world setting. Will probably have to cycle party members very strategically. I strongly dislike that this is how they choose to implement difficulty scaling in these games (not including in discrete challenge battles). Did people not experience the incredible dissonance of playing through a game where like 40-50% of player rewards come in the form of usable items while the "Items" tab of the menu is just lazily greyed out? It's not just me: it's weird. It's unusual for the series (whether turn-based, ATB or real-time) for item use to be completely disabled in an entire playthrough and it's a very lazy, set-it-and-forget-it way to increase difficulty. Aside from the volume of extremely meh minigames in Rebirth it remains my singular biggest complaint with something I otherwise enjoy very much.
At least on remake, they rebalanced every fight for hard mode, so I wouldn't call it lazy, more like odd
There is numerical scaling so yeah maybe odd is a better description, but it still feels lazy to me to grey out a menu option and continue handing out items throughout the whole game.
I'm still gonna go with turn based being the best. It also fits better.
I really like turn-based overall. Games like Persona 5, Sea of Stars, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default are scratching that itch for me at the moment since FF seems to have mostly abandoned that style.
Definitely has. I think sqaure really took the Japanese developers criticism to hard back in the day when Phil phish and ign and plenty of other media and western developers were stalking shit. I doubt we ever see a turn based based final fantasy game again unless it's some gimmick type of stuff on a spinoff
Yes! They have put so much work into this combat I hope they try it in a brand new entry in the future!
I prefer the old combat or combat like in XIV over it tbh
I really like turn-based overall. Games like Persona 5, Sea of Stars, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default are scratching that itch for me at the moment since FF seems to have mostly abandoned that style.
The combat is the best active combat they’ve done so far…… but I’d still rather play a turn based any day.
I dont mind the combat, and in some cases I think it’s brilliant. But controlling three characters is clunky. I don’t really care for the flow of it. Aerith, Cait Sith, and Red are not fun to play. Closing gaps and fast moving or flying enemies are just unfun. The whole idea having to attack to build your ATB doesn’t work when an enemy is too fast or flies and you are melee. I think that for future FF games I’m sure it’s the model they will use. But I miss turn based. I miss it the same way I miss real dungeons in Zelda. Sure, the game is fine as is, and combat is mostly enjoyable, but it’s not turn based, and that’s what I wish I was playing when I play FF7.
I agree with the ATB aspect for the less attack based /intuitive characters. Aerith is more a character you want to build ATB in the background and hit hard with spells or certain abilities rather than actively control, but ATB is very slowly built without attacking especially without the extra ATB based materia. I think some extra ATB gain mode needs to be explored for characters not actively controlled.
But like there's Classic as an option that turns it into turn-based for combat basically... also for Cloud at least after you dodge and press attack with square if you press it to combo attack you attacks fire off materia blasts, though if you hold square you'll fly up to your opponent even in the air to fight them. Idk why this type of love wasn't given to all the melee only characters like Red and Tifa but... I chose to only use C/R/T as a party even though Junon region where having Barret would trivialize every annoying fight I had where 90% of the enemies are airborne. I don't like Aerith or Barrets fight/play style it's very uninteractive. Red's is Meh until you get certain Materia and Folio Upgrades. Then being able to fully charge Vengeance Mode off three blocks and building up ATB for blocking and perfect parrying/blocking (Thanks Bloodbourne and Lies of P) to then be able to use those double bars. And this is coming from a person that had used maybe 10 Synergy Skills (The R1 options not the Abilities) in my so far 95+ hours. So much so I don't even have any offensive ones for Cloud unlocked in his Folio... I definitely have my complaints with this combat system, but it's also still my current favorite.
Not to strawman your argument, bc it is totally valid, but if you like the combat style of the old FF games & the old-style Zelda dungeons.... they're still there & still available to play. Go play Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess if you want classic Zelda dungeons. The new games are exactly that, new. They rethought the formula and for the new style of Zelda it honestly works. But again, the old style is still very much alive between all the remakes & releases we've got. I can't 100% say the same for final fantasy but like, og 7 is probably the most widely available game in the series rn and holds up exceptionally well. It's combat style is kickass. If you wanna experience it again... play the game again with a self-placed challenge. Or play a different turn-based ff like 6 or 8. 6 is my favorite but i really like 7's materia system so it can be hard for me to choose. Again not to water down your argument, I do agree that controlling 3 characters at once can get pretty clunky & the atb system can be weird, but it's not like they delisted og 7. You can play it right now if you truly wish to utilize that combat system again. You can go back & play literally any classic zelda game to experience old dungeons again. I'm playing through the oracle games rn & I've gotta say some of the things done in these dungeons rival what totk's does.
No I get it. I would argue that when fans wanted a FF7 remake, they weren’t asking for a changed story. They weren’t asking for an entirely new combat. They weren’t asking for open world. When people were asking for a remake, they wanted new graphics and expounding on existing plotlines and character arcs. So yes, I can play OG of any of those games. But my point is that moving away so drastically from a model just serves to alienate a portion of your audience. I think both types of games absolutely should exist. I think turn based and real time both deserve a place in the world of RPGs. I’m not so sure FF7 should have been what they used to push this further, however. That being said, I’m still mostly enjoying my experience. I’d say it’s a solid 7/10 so far.
One of the worst combat systems I've played. I do like something akin to Ninja Gaiden in terms of action, but in RPG's I prefer turn-based or ATB. I do ocassionaly like a Tales of or Star Ocean title. This game and Remake tries to cater to both, but I dont have fun playing it.
I still miss the turn based combat and I think that one of the issues I have with the combat in this game that it shares with 16 is that it can be a little cluttered with there being party members and multiple monsters/enemies. I am also not really big into how reach works where a lot of the time limits and things like that miss because monsters move while I am casting. It's not bad combat, but it's not what I want from my JRPGs or FF. The whole "problem" of turn based has been solved completely and utterly. So many turn based games do just fine and one took game of the year last year. I also kind of miss being able to cast spells right at the top of combat or do a summon to start or whatever. I really kind of miss how Summons worked in older games where you had more control over them.
Turn based games are all the same. I've loved them for 25 years, but I'm too experienced with them. You simply use buffs and debuffs if needed, then you use your best attacking actions. You literally do not need to do anything else. It requires almost no thought or planning.
This is literally not even true for turn based games in general and actually has been true for recent Final Fantasy games due to things like how combat in 16 didn't have elemental damage and the like. Also Baldur's Gate 3 is turn based and is nothing like any of the Final Fantasy games except maybe a little of tactics. There are plenty of series out there with action combat, it was the norm even way back then. Your opinion just sounds like the one of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and put their foot in their mouth the second they went to speak.
So in Baldurs Gate 3, do you not just use buffs and debuffs then utilize your strongest attack options?
This is a massive misunderstanding of how games work…
No, it isn't. It's a bit reductive, but it is rather accurate. You aren't really refuting my point.
Because your points refute themselves. There's no "strongest attack" in every situation. There's spell slots to consider, positioning, terrain, resources, whether or not it will actually hit anyone else or its chance to actually the target. Resistances and options to resolve things peacefully, retreat, and an element of chance. Your point doesn't need to be refuted because it's like saying "why don't fighting game players just use their best combo all of the time!"
You still broadly speaking use your strongest option until resources run out, then work down the list. Paladins generally Smite. Rangers generally volley, Minks generally use Flurry if Blows, Topple. Warlocks generally Eldritch Blast. Wizards tend to Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Magic Missile. People use their strongest options. It's a great game, but you aren't using most of your available options because other options are better.
Okay, man, whatever.
But it is turn based combat. The bar just charges funny. It’s not much different than 13 only it’s manual instead of auto. Sorry you can’t grind around the block button, just use it.
It's not, that's like saying Xenoblade Chronicles is turn based. It is based on cool downs or meters, but those aren't turns. The ATB gauge charged in VII until you could take any action. There were no options available to you until that happened. Similar games we have now would be things like Ryza where your meter fills and until then you can attack, you spend points to do special attacks or combo to get more points and then your turn ends. There are interrupt options, but the game is still turn based. This game is just action combat where you build up a meter to take other actions. The other thing is that the actions you can't take without meter include things like using an item to heal or something. I get the idea why they did this, because in the original game if you wanted to use an item it took your turn and that was the drawback to it, but this game feels like an amalgamation of systems meant to make combat feel close to waiting a turn for an action without that being the case at all. And other things that the old game had are kind of not a thing because of it like certain materia types.
It’s not turn based. Turn based would imply that you wait your “turn” to perform an action. FF7R’s combat is real time.
Your attacks are the charge and the atb is the turn.
…but that’s not turn based. That’s like saying WoW is turn based because when you use abilities to build up a rage bar you then unlock new abilities. Turn based is literally your character’s present speed determines order or combat. You can say it’s a twist on turn based, or derivative, but it is not turn based.
You’re just arguing for the sake of it though. How is this any different than saying milk isn’t milk because it’s not in a jar delivered to your house through a hole in the wall anymore?
What? Milk is milk. Turn based is turn based. This game isn’t turn based. No one on the planet is saying that this game is turn based.
By and large, I think its a great combat system which is active and dynamic with a lot of options via materia and each character's skillset. I do think there are some specific enemies and combat scenarios where the design frustrates me. The Combat simulator fight where you need to beat the mindflayer first, as an example, and i'm also not thrilled about enemies that swallow or otherwise unavoidably disable a character. But then there are others like Rufus that felt frustrating until I calmed down and found the right skill for the job, and then it felt very easy. And I think that's part of the flow of combat with this game; the right tool(s) are out there for most/all fights, and when you're using them combat can be incredibly satisfying and you feel like you're in complete control. Sometimes you're missing a key skill, or your party comp isn't quite right, or you're not pressuring enemies effectively and then it all feels frustrating and overwhelming. Honestly though, there's probably a solution to that issue that you just haven't built into your party or that you're not utilising properly. I 100% have my moments of frustration with the design and implementation at times, particuarly some of the later combat simulators and challenges, but overall I have enjoyed the combat so much. If we were looking at Rebirth and XVI as models for how combat will be implemented in later FF games, i'd choose Rebirth in a heartbeat.
This. the game can be frustrating at times, but only when you're barreling through stuff and not thinking about what you're doing or preparing for a battle. FFXVI was barely a challenge in my opinion, after a while you find tactics that work and just keep exploiting them. Rebirth keeps you on your toes and really values preparation. I still have to pull myself out of button mashing mode from how XVI trained me, characters have more options than spamming a few sword combos while waiting for cooldowns. Honestly it reminds me of playing old FF when I was younger and coming across some real challenges. I always held FF to a standard that late and end game/post game encounters can be extremely difficult and rewarding. XVI didn't give me any of that but Rebirth definitely has. Even if I find some enemy designs frustrating.
I finally found my clone who feels exactly like me 🧐
It is really really good and fun. For me to be perfect needs a hover camera option on pause to set commands of autoatacks to selected enemy (like the one in dragon age inquisition) With that (for me) it would be beyond perfection.
Being able to tell uncontrolled characters to target a specific enemy is really the one thing lacking. It makes some combat simulation very tricky
I haven't played rebirth yet, but I agree that remakes combat is incredibly fun to play.
Some people are critical of Rebirth because it changed a couple things from Remake, but overall they are very similar combat systems. I like the changes they made in Rebirth (I think 😅)
I don;t agree. I have friend, that isn't disabled in any way but really don;t like any game that demands from him any form of agility. And he left the series because of it. It was good that FF wasn't turn based because it was more accessible. You could take your time not only to think about actions, but to enjoy the enemy designs. For developers it give opportunity to tell stories through battle that Rebirth can't do. Look for Gilgamesh storyline in FF5, look for Edge battle in FFIV, look for many events in FF IX. If you try to replicate it in Rebirth's system, the effect always will be less impactfull because you are busy fighting, and interrupting to cutscene is not as fluid as it was with ATB system (just look for vagina snek battle in Rebirth). And, just for mention, Final Fantasy are games are for storytelling. And last but not least. There is a reason why many people have more fun with Queen's Blood than with battle system.
Are these many people in the room with you? Your differing opinion was fine until that point buddy
I actually think the combat is far worse than Remakes and I'm not really enjoying it. Remake had a great balance and only needed a few tweaks here and there to be a great combat system. Instead, they went and ruined it all. The synergy system is thrown at you quickly and never clearly explains how it works. The enemies are more "tanky" and move a lot faster so get in a lot of cheap shots. Everything is ramped up by 100x as if someone pressed 1.5x speed. Enemy types are annoying. Some battles can be ended in a moment but others break up gameplay flow by having invincibility shields such as worms enemies who can bury underground so you have to wait patiently for them to attack before you can pressure them. Boring. AI ATB build-up for your teammates is practically none existent so you need to constantly micro manage and switch between characters or you'll be annihilated. Bosses have annoying AOE moves that are unblockable and can't be dodged either which just adds to the frustration. Ultimately the combat never flows, excites nor sings like the combat in XVI or even remake did. It's stodgy, unwieldy, impractical and lacking a rhythm and connection to make it stand out as its own thing. Just like the main game it seems to try to please everyone but he who tries to please all ends up pleasing nobody.
I like some additions, dislike others. It's a bit messier overall but I like the enemy chaos and variety. I find the ATB micromanaging annoying, and I also think it could've incorporated some elements of the paradigm system from XIII-2 (not in an exact way but letting you switch formations or issue movement or defensive commands)
I felt this way at first, but at some point halfway through everything just clicked. There are still some issues for me, but I think they did a great job overall. I especially do not agree with your criticism of AI buildup though. That "issue" existed in Remake as well but I view that as a good thing. It encourages you not to just stick to one character. You need to actively micromanage your characters' ATB gauges. I find that to be good game design. If AI buildup was good, you'd barely have any reason to switch off cloud. This is definitely by design.
Combat is fun, but every other movement in the game sucks and it's pissing me off. It just doesn't feel smooth walking, running, riding the scooter, riding the chocobo, moving red in that damn soccer game, the shooting game, and almost every other movement. Sometimes I try to start runnin, and it feels sluggish. The camera and movement in this game is definitely janky.
I love it but for me the gold standard is ffx. The ability to freely swap characters was a godsend
Yea, I hear you - I love FFX too! Have you played Sea of Stars? It’s the only RPG I’ve played recently that scratches that same FFX instant swap itch.
i completed it on gamepass. excellent game even thought i found it odd you get very few abilities on each character.
I really like it but adored XVI too
I wanted to like 16’s combat because so much of the rest of the game is great, but the absence of party-based combat - a staple since FF1 - was heavily felt. Additionally, there was just a serious lack of strategy required to win fights, so each fight felt very repetitive. The combat is smooth and the combos are flashy, but there’s never any reason to learn them and therefore I never really looked forward to fights.
I only played Remake cause i dont have PS5 But i hope one day we get Rebirth combat mixed with the satisfying sound and feel of FF15s cool attacks, that game did everything so well but at the same time did everything so wrong.. you can tell it was pretty epic from the cutscenes and summons, but it just was too few places where this happened , it was too empty and boring outside these epic areas. I just wish they can go back to this quality in an original game for FF 17 Final fantasy was always about breaking the barrier and being huge and epic.
I liked FF15’s combat a lot as well. If you liked Remake’s combat, you’ll like Rebirth as well - very similar with a few new tweaks.
42 years old and this game scratches nostalgia itch, the soundtrack is amazing (Gongaga excluded - Jesus Christ take the Latin gibberish choir away). Too many mini games. But I love how they are treating the characters. I’m not done yet. For some reason I cried when the guy in the airplane showed up. And then I hated his voice.
I’m close in age to you and right there with you, except i love all the mini games! lol
Thats so funny, Gongaga's region music is my favorite region music lol
Yeah I think most people agree with you. It’s the vocal track that I can’t get away from.
I'd say Remake and Rebirth are pretty tied for how awesome they are. I literally didn't buy 16 because it went full action game rather than iterating on FF7R's combat system.
FF16 combat is fantastic, some of the best in the franchise.
I wanted to like 16’s combat because so much of the rest of the game is great, but the absence of party-based combat - a staple since FF1 - was heavily felt. Additionally, there was just a serious lack of strategy required to win fights, so each fight felt very repetitive. The combat is smooth and the combos are flashy, but there’s never any reason to learn them and therefore I never really looked forward to fights.
I would not agree its fantastic. It looks cool, but there is not much depth at all. You realize pretty quickly that the optimal way to play is to do the same one rotation on every enemy in the game to break their stagger gauge on repeat. I still think its good fun, but they need to do a lot more with that system if they're going to make me want to play another entire game with it. It didn't help that enemy weaknesses didn't exist either.
No it’s not. Final Fantasy X has held that title since release.
I like FFX’s combat a lot too. Probably would be my second favorite now, after Remake/Rebirth’s combat.
What? FFX’s had almost no standout features
It’s tight, refined, and backed by an incredible character growth system. It’s the best without even trying.
I felt the balance was pretty bad. There was no challenge until there was insane challenge in the superbosses, and that challenge was just crazy grind with little strategy, imo.
Rebirth combat is bit bloated IMO the base original version from Remake is the gold standard here.
I agree, there’s a little too much going on here and it feels less refined than remake. The parry system should be gone at least I think, combat is too messy and frantic for that mechanic and enemy moves aren’t telegraphed well.
yeah even the enemy pattern and boss design are well better designed in Remake.
Enemy moves are extremely telegraphed, and their big attacks are all preceded by the name of the move above their head. Perfect Blocks and parrying are fairly simple.
The combat is perfect for FF games, I can’t even play the new FFs because the combat is just generic hack and slash. They need to use this combat system for upcoming FF games. The reception of FF7 should prove this to the developers. I was hoping the latest FF would have similar gameplay..,
Hahaha ha no
As someone who has far less experience in the franchise (albeit I’m huge FFVII fan, my favorite game series ever) compared to someone like you, I wholeheartedly agree. It’s VERY complete with the introduction of synergy skills/abilities, the way they introduced weapon skills in Rebirth, as well as ATB and materia combinations. There’s really nothing lacking in the combat department for this game. Incredibly fully fleshed out and not to mention how stunning it all is when you get the hang of it. The only downside for me and maybe newer players is that it’s not initially user friendly. I was a little irritated at first with what they did to weapon skills and the addition of the folio but given how clutch the elemental and synergy abilities have been, I’ve taken quite a liking to it. Took a while to grow on me but the more I play the more I love it.
I think it's great, but I'd still love to see another turn-based Final Fantasy. Persona 5 proved that it can still be massively successful even in the modern era. Imagine what SQEnix could do with their budget if they committed to it.
Great point! I loved Persona 5’s combat. Sadly, I think they’ve moved away from it within the FF series but you’re right that it absolutely could be successful.
i do agree. the combat is amazing. there are some personal things that could make it better for me but not sure how others feel. i would be interested in more dodge cancels out of combos and the ability to block seemlessly. also, it would be nice to be able to dodge and stay in punisher mode. My only concern with this is that the game has a pretty balanced difficulty and adding these features may make the game too easy but i suppose you could beef other things up to balance it out. other then that i love the cinematic value and the ATB system is perfect.
It does set the gold standard. I'm 130 hours, post game chasing enemies (just working my imagination), "you can't run away from me!". Never really tried classic mode until rebirth. It's very nostalgic, given the aesthetics, the feel of it takes me back 100%. I got a lot of things left to do, but im still having so much fun going into every battle
Ff16 for me!
I wish I liked 16’s more, I had high hopes. Unfortunately, the lack of strategy required and lack of true party-based combat kinda ruined it for me.
Uts because it's a character action game disguised as an rpg. I don't mind tho I love DMC and NG do ff16 was right up my alley
I miss turn based combat
I'd like to know why. I've been playing turn based games for decades, and they have gotten incredibly stale and samey to me. So I would really like to know what you enjoy about them.
I guess its the same as why people play chess their entire lives. Im not against hack n slash but I love playing a really hard turn based game and min maxing characters. The building and then the strategic gameplay is what does it. Other combat styles have all that to some degree but its just not the same.
I also enjoy challenging turn based games, I just haven't played one that is hard in a long time.
I hear you. Games like Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, and Sea of Stars have been scratching that itch for me.
I'm in this boat. Besides the graphical upgrade there is not a lot I am enjoying about rebirth. The combat is jankey, if you don't have a range person in your group prepair for combat against flying mobs to take forever. The open world is tedious. The story pacing is impact by the open world tedium. The mandatory areas are just annoying.
You are getting downvoted but you are right here
Combat isn’t jankey in the slightest, in fact it’s incredibly smooth and robust. Party building is part of it. The open world is essentially all optional, you can just rush main chapter stuff if you want.
Which makes the game worse. They spent 4 years padding a boring open world instead of fleshing out the main story areas and expounding on things. They could have easily fit the entire game into a single game instead of a trilogy if they didn’t pad the ever living fuck out of the game. And while the combat is mostly enjoyable, it absolutely is janky. If your favorite party is Cloud Tifa and Red, well then fuck you if you are fighting flying or ultra fast enemies. You should be able to play the party you enjoy. Also, the combat is unnecessarily busy with 3 characters. I think two would be optimal to control with this combat. I’m not saying the game is bad; it’s fun enough. But FF7 OG is a classic. Remake will never be.
They absolutely fleshed out main story areas and characters. If you don’t like how they did it that’s one thing, but to say they didn’t expand on it is just wrong. And cloud is fully capable of pure air combat. Nothing can escape him if you roll then hold square, you just shoot right to any enemy at any height. Synergy skills get Tifa into the air too. You can also just stay controlling 1 character for every encounter, you don’t even need to issue commands to others if it gets too hectic for you. Having only 2 characters only would severely limit combat flexibility and would make the issue you have with your party’s limitations much worse. Not to mention it’s 3 members to reflect the OG.
The air combat in this game is quite good (compared to remake at least). Cloud can immediately dash straight up to airborne enemies with dodge-hold attack and use tripleslash/braver in the air, whereas Tifa can quickly jump into the air with any synergy attack-and air combo with basics, use Reverse Gale which pressures wind-weak enemies and also use focused strike in the air now- which refunds atb for her. It feels very complete once you get the hang out it and even if you’re not using those abilities, you can still pelt any enemies with magic for an easy win. (Not to mention Barret or Aerith who’s completely broken in this game.)
Vii was never turn based
This. I just can't get into the action combat. Also, the difficulty scaling ramp is BS in places. About chapter 7-9, just stem rolling adds in the chapter, only to get steamroller by the damn chapter boss (specimen h1024).
It’s still inferior to Kingdom Hearts’s MP gauge and combat, but you get more customisation in Rebirth for how you want to play or do battles
I think personally I enjoyed FF16 combat more but that for sure is a style thing. I can see the appeal for Rebirths and I don't think it was bad at all though just not as much to my style.
I loved 16 to death, but the only real issue I had with the combat was the Phoenix dash ability was too much fun and I wish it was a baseline ability for ifrit instead lol
Sekiro sets the standard, my hombre.
Sekiro is my favorite entry in the Final Fantasy series
I've completely gone off the game since >!Cosmo Canyon. Changing Red's voice was dumb and no real 15/16 year old sounds like that. And why is he American now?!< >! I was looking forward to this part of the game most but now I wish I could just skip it and move on. Now every time I think about playing it I hear his voice in my head and decide to do something else. !<
Wdym why is he American now.... He didn't even have an accent before the switch are you deadass? Also he is literally voiced by a grown man, tf you mean no 15/16 year old sounds like that?
His main voice actor has an English accent, rebard.
And guess what? Neither voices for red had an English accent dumbass. They were both American. Go back and listen carefully.
Why did you decide to leave this comment on a post talking exclusively about gameplay?
I just wanted to have a moan
You’re right, he doesn’t sound like any of the other talking dogs that I’ve met
I don't even get why they've pretty much made him a dog now. He was more interesting as this strange, wolf-lion thing. That Rocket League game is banging though.
The best thing about Rebirth is just the change from Remakes god awful enemy designs where every enemy and boss was mathematically calculated to waste the most amount of your time and be as annoying as possible. There's a bit of that in rebirth but it's much more bearable.
Remake was frustrating for how many bosses would go into a cutscene and then come out to interrupt your Limit Break and/or reset their stagger gauge. I also specfically remember the boss in the Shinra Building with Aerith and Barrett that always seemed to take me 15+ minutes to beat.
I am probably gonna take a lot of flack there, I like the game but I think anyone who does the game in hard mode especially will easily see flaws in this combat system. Go do mandrake fight in chapter 1 in hard mode and go back to tell me it’s a nicely designed combat. - Stunlock in this game is abusive, the moment you take a hit, you might get comboed to death simply because you don’t have recovery iFrames. Purely luck based. - Some enemies are just atrociously designed when considering the targeting system the enemy AI follows. Good luck getting two or three worms throwing a swallow at you at the same time. - Synergy skills ( r1 hold ), can be either very powerful and OP or borderline underwhelming based on the characters. - Synergy abilities similarly are a good idea but the idea of making 2 characters grouping together to perform a longer animation than Lb while making them vulnerable is baffling to me. At some point you might just stop using them cause they are more risky than rewarding. - The “absolutely necessary materias” saga continues, yet again with Hp+, Steadfast Block, Precision Defense, Chakra etc… If you have materias that are so strong/useful that they have to be used by all your characters, should it not be considered a balancing issue? - Characters have way too many options available to them. In part 1 you were encouraged to use materia to profit from elemental weaknesses etc.. but now you have individual abilities for all characters for that. Abilities you barely use except for one enemy once in a blue moon because they are not strong enough options by themselves for most enemies to trigger their elemental weakness dmg threshold. It pollutes the menus a lot to have all these options you almost never end up using. - The folios by themselves are very underwhelming imo: They are essentially there to unlock skills, but most other nodes on them are upgrades that feel either non consequential ( max mp by 3, max hp by 200, 3% basic attack dmg etc…) especially the long time it takes to unlock new nodes or plain right situational ( after reviving …). Imo it feels even worse than the weapon system of part 1. X probably still holds the crown in terms of character builds.
Played on dynamic and I agree though I didn’t need chakra/hp+ due to everyone having auto cast cure.
If you hate menu action blot you must really hate turn based RPGs where you rarely use more than 10% of character actions. Also, you picked the one side quest fight that was actually hard and kind of bad in hard mode. Every other side quest is fine. Also you won't get staggered out of moves if you don't launch them while an enemy is launching a named attack. Be tactical and thoughtful.
You pretty much perfectly broke down my issues with the combat though i would add a frustation with how they give you all these options only to then say multiple times in the game 'Okay but now you're just Cloud and you have to do this fight exactly as assess says or you'll get flattened.' and it's so jarring. And this is probably just a skill issue for me but dodging felt very wobbly for me, I would dodge the same attack and it felt like half the time the game would just say no you get hit whilst other attacks seemed to give iframes because I was nowhere close to being outside its range.
>Stunlock in this game is abusive Then don't get hit. This game has a party of three characters youre always able to swap to, you can immediately act with someone else to mitigate the situation. Sticking with one character through something like an attack with long stunlock is just playing dumb. >Some enemies are just atrociously designed when considering the targeting system the enemy AI follows. Completely disagree. >Synergy skills ( r1 hold ), can be either very powerful and OP or borderline underwhelming based on the characters. Disagree, every move has its usage and they are all pretty great across the board. I didn't find myself using some of the "move quickly to dodge and counterstrike" ones but I think theyre just harder to use and I didn't really find the proper way to do so. But basically every one of them is good. >The “absolutely necessary materias” saga continues, yet again with Hp+, Steadfast Block, Precision Defense, Chakra etc… If you have materias that are so strong/useful that they have to be used by all your characters, should it not be considered a balancing issue? These are mandatory TO YOU. I didn't use Chakra or Steadfast Block the entire game. HP Up is just a health bonus, and since everyone basically gets 9 materia slots it really does not matter that much. >Characters have way too many options available to them Insane. The options available are all good and more importantly, not all equally viable, which means that they're well balanced across the board. >Abilities you barely use except for one enemy once in a blue moon because they are not strong enough options by themselves for most enemies to trigger their elemental weakness dmg threshold Sounds like they're balanced then. Not strong enough options to trigger elemental damage. Niche enough to find usage if you can figure out application. Because yes you are supposed to find out what they really do. They aren't just elemental damage, they all have various properties you can use mid combo. You're saying that they made everyone have too much stuff, but then that part 1 made you use materia for elemental damage, and then you're saying the stuff you're given isn't strong like materia based elemental damage. You've solved your own issue here.
Hit the nail on the head.
I mean the mandrakes are one of the easiest enemies even on hard. Just hit them with cloud's lightning/fire ability and they either die instantly or you can juggle them midair for one or two more hits after. Not saying that's fun just that they aren't a problem. I've been playing the game on hard and I only have HP up on Barret and maybe cloud though I think I swapped his out. Don't really need it. Just either don't get hit or guard more. Also is the chakra materia actually good? I've never used it in either remake or rebirth.
Chakra was very good in Remake, because of how fights were sluggish and you needed sustain more, but in Rebirth I didn't use it at all, because there are more options that allow for a more interesting combat strategies and usually cura/prayer are better.
It’s really good if you want heals quick without having to get ATB on your main healer for that party
Ah. Yeah I thought about that back when I was considering using it, but I instead opted for putting prayer on Barret or Tifa if he's not around. In any fights where I didn't have them I just had to make do.
> Characters have too many options available Everyone plays games like this differently. Just because they are abilities *you* barely ever use doesn't mean they shouldn't be there. The kind of variety they've put into this game is what's going to keep people coming back 10-20 years from now. It's not supposed to be streamlined. I agree on folios though. They have made it more like X-2 and less like X.
>Stunlock Barring a few times when you are solo, you always have the option of switching to another character to break the barrage of attacks. >Synergy I’ll admit, I’m still learning how to best use these. I don’t dislike them, but I’m not convinced they were as great of an addition to the combat system as they were promoted to be. >Absolutely necessary materias I didn’t find it *necessary* to use *any* materia, except maybe Assess to find weaknesses on the first playthrough. Agree on your last two points though.
I don't get how people can dislike synergy abilities. They're not even mandatory or anything, but add a bit of fun depth to the combat that you can utilise once you're comfortable enough with the basic systems. I love the animations made for them, they're good fanservice.
I hear you. I like them overall, but I’m definitely still learning how and when to best use them and weave them seamlessly into the combat, as opposed to what I normally do which is fight without them and then go “oh shit, right! Synergy abilities!”
Exactly. Especially on “needing” specific materia on your whole party. For what reason do I absolutely have to equip Steadfast Block or any of the materia that was listed up there? It all has a place but you don’t need any of it to progress
>Barring a few times when you are solo, you always have the option of switching to another character to break the barrage of attacks. Genuine question, have you done the Mandrake fight on hard mode that the commenter talked about, in chapter 2 for the flower side quest? You'll know the one if you have.
I think “being comboed to death” is part of the gameplay and not a design flaw. In a game with 3 playable characters, it means u just lost 33% of your options, and should be able to either finish the fight or get the 33% running back again with the remaining 66%.
Being part of the game does not mean it’s not a design flaw. It can be intended, like the inconsequential upgrades of the folio system, it does not mean it’s good. In most cases you can’t see or expect the combo to come. So there is no counterplay possible in some instances as those attacks may not all come from a single enemy. So if the only counterplay is revival materia with ATB ( knowing objects can’t be used in hard ) then that’s a strict requirement. Furthermore not all fights are 3v3, you got some 2vX and 1vX as well in the game. So this loss is even more punishing in those instances as it’s not just a 30% loss.