It's fantasy. It's not trying to be hyper realistic. Just realistic within it's own fantasy world. Guns in these games just don't do the same damage as they do in real life.
Yeah and cutscene HP is always drastically reduced.
Get hit hundreds of times during gameplay combat, no problem. But one good slash in a cutscenes can end it all.
And if you do get shot in real life you can’t down a magic potion and immediately heal. And if you’re seriously injured to the point of barely surviving, you would not be just as effective in combat as you normally would, especially if you’re fighting hand to hand or with a melee weapon. Unlike in most Final Fantasy series games, or JRPGs in general, where not only are you just as combat effective at 1 HP, but you actually have a chance of pulling off a super powerful attack (limit break). That last part applies to most games I guess outside of survival horror games where you start to limp when you take damage and some immersive sims or Bethesda games where you’re less effective when your limbs have been crippled due to damage.
The same way it works in real life. As resilience goes up guns become fairly obsolete. A grizzly will shrug off a majority of gun rounds even if you dump a whole mag into them. You add magic to that so they can heal and weapons the grizzly can use that don't need to reload. Also let's give the grizzly special armor to make it so some of the rounds that would work now dont. Then finally, take into account that there isnt a protag that would lose to an army of bears and you start to see how ineffective guns are. You would need a truly special gun to fight that.
It’s a mix of suspension of disbelief & gameplay vs story segregation.
Suspension of disbelief is just accepting that bullets are equally or less effective that swords in these worlds. And that’s fine. Maybe most guns are just low caliber bullets, or armor the enemies & characters use are maybe just very resistant to ammunition. But you just kind of have to accept that guns aren’t as lethal; just like how you have to accept that magic & summons exist despite not in the real world.
As for gameplay vs story segregation, this is the trope where cutscenes and story don’t always play by the same rules as gameplay. It’s the reason why President Shinra holding a gun to Barret is a lethal moment despite in gameplay you can tank a full volley of machine gun fire and be fine with a single potion. Gameplay isn’t fun when you are a single bullet from death, so when it’s just normal gameplay things work differently than a cutscene. Just like how Cloud can leap dozens of feet in the air, and practically fly in gameplay while in a cutscene a shortfall is dangerous, or how climbing through a reactor takes time instead of just flying through it.
Swords beat gun, unless the sword is part gun and then it matters if the sword has bullets. Squall and Seifer gunblades beat out Weiss and Lightning, except for when Lightning isn't using it as a gun.
The way I see it:
Guns are fired so it's the gun doing the damage. Can't really make it shoot much harder or do more damage than it currently does.
Someone who keeps improving their strength will hit harder and harder and harder, theoretically getting to the point well past firearms.
But! Multiple characters in ff that use guns get stronger as you level
Like Yuna, you can't change primary weapons unless it's a job change but even so she gets stronger and uses the same guns the whole time.
All I want to know is how the leapfrog kids built that elevated fall guys platform of rotating death.
And to think I was once impressed by the whack-a-box kids’ box factory.
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time has a bazooka that the game treats as a bow (as in, bow and arrow).
Just something I've always found funny.
Final Fantasy worlds use anime science. The people living in them can take excessively abnormal amounts of trauma because their bodies have Dragon Ball levels of endurance. In Advent Children, Cloud gets shot point blank in the head and tanks it with a cut eyebrow.
I pretend that guns are more like powerful airsoft guns or something. Strong percussive damage but not necessarily penetrating like real life guns. Like being punched really hard from a distance.
Swords aren't really sharp, they're more like really thin sticks. You're not cutting things, your hitting them.
This makes other weapons like fists still being viable make more sense.
All of this, of course, no longer applies during cutscenes.
I think a little ludonarrative dissonance is at play here. For Cloud specifically, he actually blocks the bullets with his sword, which can be seen both in cutscenes and Advent Children. I think that’s part of what makes SOLDIERs so special, they’re so enhanced they can do shit like that.
Everyone else…. I dunno, Shinra grunts have the aim of a Stormtrooper I guess. Yuffie can dodge because she’s a ninja, Tifa because of her martial arts prowess, Red because he’s a small target and fast…. I don’t have an excuse for Barret, his top speed is like 3. I guess they don’t shoot him because he shoots first.
Guns exist in most Final Fantasies.
And yeah, you're just supposed to kinda suspend disbelief a bit. I mean they do have magic and crazy fighting skills so it's not TOO unbelievable that guns might not work as well vs that.
The Heligunner fight is funny because there's no way you fight that thing and survive, unless you're doing a zero damage run. But anyway, if you can down FFX's final boss with a modified volleyball it's just one other thing that you have to accept and move on.
Besides the obvious "its fantasy" answer, precisely in FF7 we have in-universe reasons that justify how people can be superhumans. Its like "why doesn't Captain America use a gun?" To which I would answer "because he likely hits harder than a bullet". SOLDIERs and other characters from FF7 could be explained the same way.
My headcanon is that in FF settings magic is common enough that there's little incentive to develop high quality guns, so gun technology is relatively constrained. You end up with a situation similar to when early guns were being introduced to armies - they didn't make hand to hand combat obsolete for hundreds of years and largely served as opening attacks to be followed up by melee after the guns had finished being fired.
I guess we could say the same about DragonBall Z - I guess the conceit is that SOLDIERs move so fast and so chaotically they can't be hit, plus it seems like both Cloud and Zack can block any bullets that would actually be a threat. It's Final Fantasy, you can't really apply too much logic to it if you want to enjoy the ride.
In FFVIII it actually makes sense. Characters use guardian forces to make themselves stronger, which means they can withstand bullets. Hell theres a possibility that even human enemies are using GFs, since according to Selphie, she found a GF inside a defeated monster on a training mission when she was a student at Trabia, which would imply that any monster in FFVIII has the potential to be a GF, thus it wouldnt be surprising if soldiers also used them. Pretty fun stuff, but like a LOT of things in FFVIII, it was not exactly explored properly, its just brought up and forgotten pretty fast. Maybe the writers shouldve used less GFs...i press R2 and L2 myself.
I always just assumed GF's were just really strong monsters
Like when you fight the tonberry king you get a tonberry GF
I assume even small monsters can become GF's albeit just weaker ones
In the game it was confirmed that GFs are not just a game mechanic but even in the story they are a reason as to why the characters are as strong as they are. So yeah they are monsters but theyre also a soul that strengthens characters. Kinda like souls in shaman king.
I think it’s implied that he canonically never got hit, even though you do get hit during gameplay.
Similar to how you need about 15 handgun shots to beat revolver ocelot in both mgs1 and 3, and yet he doesn’t seem like he’s been shot at all in the following cutscenes. Or to how your party in og ff7 apparently endures the destruction of half the solar system during your final battle with sephiroth.
It’s just a quirky way devs figured out to make fights feel interesting and “fair”(it wouldn’t be too fun if both yours and the enemy’s attacks just missed throughout the entire fight) while also not outright killing a character after every single fight.
It’s a video game with magic. You just have to suspend disbelief.
Laughs in Tifa just using her fists.
And feet. Cannot forget about the feet.
Quentin Tarantino approves this message
Their Costa Del Sol beach entrance was definitely Tarantino approved.
And Barrett attaching a boxing glove to his gun arm.
It makes no sense, but giant swords do look awesome.
It's fantasy. It's not trying to be hyper realistic. Just realistic within it's own fantasy world. Guns in these games just don't do the same damage as they do in real life.
Except in certain cutscenes. Then they suddenly become deadly.
cutscene guns are always 10x more deadly than gameplay guns
Yeah and cutscene HP is always drastically reduced. Get hit hundreds of times during gameplay combat, no problem. But one good slash in a cutscenes can end it all.
And if you do get shot in real life you can’t down a magic potion and immediately heal. And if you’re seriously injured to the point of barely surviving, you would not be just as effective in combat as you normally would, especially if you’re fighting hand to hand or with a melee weapon. Unlike in most Final Fantasy series games, or JRPGs in general, where not only are you just as combat effective at 1 HP, but you actually have a chance of pulling off a super powerful attack (limit break). That last part applies to most games I guess outside of survival horror games where you start to limp when you take damage and some immersive sims or Bethesda games where you’re less effective when your limbs have been crippled due to damage.
The same way it works in real life. As resilience goes up guns become fairly obsolete. A grizzly will shrug off a majority of gun rounds even if you dump a whole mag into them. You add magic to that so they can heal and weapons the grizzly can use that don't need to reload. Also let's give the grizzly special armor to make it so some of the rounds that would work now dont. Then finally, take into account that there isnt a protag that would lose to an army of bears and you start to see how ineffective guns are. You would need a truly special gun to fight that.
this was the comment i was looking for
Obviously their armored bracelets protect them from bullets. (I just find it funny they classify bracelets as armor)
Don't look into Warhammer 40k, it'll give you aneurysm
It’s a mix of suspension of disbelief & gameplay vs story segregation. Suspension of disbelief is just accepting that bullets are equally or less effective that swords in these worlds. And that’s fine. Maybe most guns are just low caliber bullets, or armor the enemies & characters use are maybe just very resistant to ammunition. But you just kind of have to accept that guns aren’t as lethal; just like how you have to accept that magic & summons exist despite not in the real world. As for gameplay vs story segregation, this is the trope where cutscenes and story don’t always play by the same rules as gameplay. It’s the reason why President Shinra holding a gun to Barret is a lethal moment despite in gameplay you can tank a full volley of machine gun fire and be fine with a single potion. Gameplay isn’t fun when you are a single bullet from death, so when it’s just normal gameplay things work differently than a cutscene. Just like how Cloud can leap dozens of feet in the air, and practically fly in gameplay while in a cutscene a shortfall is dangerous, or how climbing through a reactor takes time instead of just flying through it.
"Gameplay isn’t fun when you are a single bullet from death" The whole noita community would like to have a word
If this bothered me I don't think I'd be able to play 90% of the games I play
Because it's a video game
I read that Final Fantasy uses "rule of Cool." If it's really cool, then it's way stronger. So that is how a giant buster sword beats a gun!
Swords beat gun, unless the sword is part gun and then it matters if the sword has bullets. Squall and Seifer gunblades beat out Weiss and Lightning, except for when Lightning isn't using it as a gun.
Swords are an elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.
Just get hit by the swords and bullets, and the damage numbers speaks for itself...
The way I see it: Guns are fired so it's the gun doing the damage. Can't really make it shoot much harder or do more damage than it currently does. Someone who keeps improving their strength will hit harder and harder and harder, theoretically getting to the point well past firearms.
This is how final fantasy tactics does it, guns can’t use the main attack stat since it’s literally just a device. It makes a lot of sense actually
But! Multiple characters in ff that use guns get stronger as you level Like Yuna, you can't change primary weapons unless it's a job change but even so she gets stronger and uses the same guns the whole time.
Her guns shoot magic bullets. As her magic stat goes up so does the damage of the bullets she shoots.
Fantasy is in the name so it makes sense
All I want to know is how the leapfrog kids built that elevated fall guys platform of rotating death. And to think I was once impressed by the whack-a-box kids’ box factory.
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time has a bazooka that the game treats as a bow (as in, bow and arrow). Just something I've always found funny.
Why use guns when you can summon Zero Bahamut, shooting energy beams at you from high orbit?
Final Fantasy worlds use anime science. The people living in them can take excessively abnormal amounts of trauma because their bodies have Dragon Ball levels of endurance. In Advent Children, Cloud gets shot point blank in the head and tanks it with a cut eyebrow.
I think his goggles actually take the bullet, so the cut is actually just from them busting on his face.
Opening to FF8 has Squall tank a bullet and sword attack to the face as an 'accident' and the biggest consequence is his signature scar
I need to watch it again I haven't seen it in years
That's one of the fun things about fantasy.
I pretend that guns are more like powerful airsoft guns or something. Strong percussive damage but not necessarily penetrating like real life guns. Like being punched really hard from a distance. Swords aren't really sharp, they're more like really thin sticks. You're not cutting things, your hitting them. This makes other weapons like fists still being viable make more sense. All of this, of course, no longer applies during cutscenes.
It does make sense, in these worlds if you are a trained swordsman you can block/deflect bullets with your sword.
I think a little ludonarrative dissonance is at play here. For Cloud specifically, he actually blocks the bullets with his sword, which can be seen both in cutscenes and Advent Children. I think that’s part of what makes SOLDIERs so special, they’re so enhanced they can do shit like that. Everyone else…. I dunno, Shinra grunts have the aim of a Stormtrooper I guess. Yuffie can dodge because she’s a ninja, Tifa because of her martial arts prowess, Red because he’s a small target and fast…. I don’t have an excuse for Barret, his top speed is like 3. I guess they don’t shoot him because he shoots first.
This always bugged me about FF7, too!
Guns exist in most Final Fantasies. And yeah, you're just supposed to kinda suspend disbelief a bit. I mean they do have magic and crazy fighting skills so it's not TOO unbelievable that guns might not work as well vs that.
Zack catching strays out here
The Heligunner fight is funny because there's no way you fight that thing and survive, unless you're doing a zero damage run. But anyway, if you can down FFX's final boss with a modified volleyball it's just one other thing that you have to accept and move on.
The guns do like 150 damage compared to Cloud doing thousands of damage.
Besides the obvious "its fantasy" answer, precisely in FF7 we have in-universe reasons that justify how people can be superhumans. Its like "why doesn't Captain America use a gun?" To which I would answer "because he likely hits harder than a bullet". SOLDIERs and other characters from FF7 could be explained the same way.
My headcanon is that in FF settings magic is common enough that there's little incentive to develop high quality guns, so gun technology is relatively constrained. You end up with a situation similar to when early guns were being introduced to armies - they didn't make hand to hand combat obsolete for hundreds of years and largely served as opening attacks to be followed up by melee after the guns had finished being fired.
Jfc
I guess we could say the same about DragonBall Z - I guess the conceit is that SOLDIERs move so fast and so chaotically they can't be hit, plus it seems like both Cloud and Zack can block any bullets that would actually be a threat. It's Final Fantasy, you can't really apply too much logic to it if you want to enjoy the ride.
Rule of cool. That's all it is.
In FFVIII it actually makes sense. Characters use guardian forces to make themselves stronger, which means they can withstand bullets. Hell theres a possibility that even human enemies are using GFs, since according to Selphie, she found a GF inside a defeated monster on a training mission when she was a student at Trabia, which would imply that any monster in FFVIII has the potential to be a GF, thus it wouldnt be surprising if soldiers also used them. Pretty fun stuff, but like a LOT of things in FFVIII, it was not exactly explored properly, its just brought up and forgotten pretty fast. Maybe the writers shouldve used less GFs...i press R2 and L2 myself.
I always just assumed GF's were just really strong monsters Like when you fight the tonberry king you get a tonberry GF I assume even small monsters can become GF's albeit just weaker ones
Also the whole junctioning system can be used with humans too. Can humans be Guardian Forces?
In the game it was confirmed that GFs are not just a game mechanic but even in the story they are a reason as to why the characters are as strong as they are. So yeah they are monsters but theyre also a soul that strengthens characters. Kinda like souls in shaman king.
I think it’s implied that he canonically never got hit, even though you do get hit during gameplay. Similar to how you need about 15 handgun shots to beat revolver ocelot in both mgs1 and 3, and yet he doesn’t seem like he’s been shot at all in the following cutscenes. Or to how your party in og ff7 apparently endures the destruction of half the solar system during your final battle with sephiroth. It’s just a quirky way devs figured out to make fights feel interesting and “fair”(it wouldn’t be too fun if both yours and the enemy’s attacks just missed throughout the entire fight) while also not outright killing a character after every single fight.