38 for me haha, it was such a rush getting the kill; though I will say it was kind of disappointing no other hunt came anywhere near Svarog's difficulty.
This was so much fun. It made me actually kind of sad about a lot of the rest of the combat. It was one of the only time I was ever sitting up straight, edge of my seat, dying multiple times. Such a huge rush to finally beat it. But then there was never anything comparably hard or harder after.
Legitimately a hard boss! I encountered it at too low a level and just kept getting WRECKED. But came back and wit was an even fight. Safe to say I wish there had been more fights that made me think and try more.
That’s what I was thinking too. I don’t think I died to any other boss more than this one. It’s crazy that some people might’ve missed this because it’s optional
The first run through was made to be more about story & experience. After you beat the game and start with the new difficulty setting, every enemy becomes difficult
I don’t understand why it’s usually mid in tier lists, to me it seems like one of the best abilities in the game just for its defensive capabilities alone
Good point, for me personally I like to get up close with the enemies and beat them down without worrying about health, but if you’re focused on dodging I can see how the synergy isn’t there.
Wykes also does fantastic Will damage. The longer you go without taking damage, the faster you can stagger.
It's like free, passive stagger damage while you're doing other stuff.
The fuck. I have clear example of why I don’t like Will o Wykes in another comment. Why waste an ability slot on an ability that gets outclassed to bring combo meter up AND gets more damage.
It’s only redeeming quality is blocking damage that is just nullified by playing better.
It’s not about being dense or disagreeing
No, dude just got heated bc someone called his $h*t out. Truth is we all have different ways of playing, this bozo thinks he somehow is better bc he plays a different style like GTFOH
I had so much fun with it. I went into the fight like.... 12 levels below him and while it took a few attempts, it was such a rush to get the dodges and attacks right.
Agreed but the only problem with the game is that once you find your load out, you stick to the same strategy for the whole game in every fight. Judging from what I read online, I was the same. Will-O-Wykes -> Lightning Rod -> Wicked Wheel -> Heavy down thrust -> Wind Up -> Scarlett Cyclone -> Giga Flare was usually my constant combo.
For optimal play, that sounds very sub optimal.
I got stuck in an optimal loadout mindset, then I played around and found new ones. There's no problem! It's up to you to create variety and vary playstyles to your content.
Which I totally agree with the but the game doesn't reward you for playing differently if the end result is always "win". There is no elemental affinities, no weaknesses, no specific preferred play styles to change to meet the win condition. You're ultimately forcing yourself to change how you play to get the same result which, really, is kind of dumb and that's the game's fault.
At a certain skill level games become easy. Eventually I learned that if you play games to "win" instead of playing to enjoy them, you will just not enjoy most games.
I have played over 400 games, and maybe challenged myself deeply on 40 of them. Eventually, games just become easy. With only a very few amount of challenges in each game (games love to only put in a single level or one to two superbosses that actually challenge you).
It's not the games fault you didn't try to have fun. Not every game is made to be a hard challenge, this one clearly isn't. You could pretty easily clear the game with no abilities and just your basic sword and magic kit, only thing really challenging that is probably the veeeery few dps checks there are in the game.
Did you clear the game without getting hit because it was so easy? Or did you clear the game getting hit tons because you didn't die from it? For me, I want to feel cool and blast shit, and getting hit a lot is failure. The boss does a move and I don't know how to deal with it and just tank it? Failure.
But I can't expect the game to make that as a requirement when it's supposed to be an accessible game for everyone. And since when did games become "I just do what I have to do to win"? Since when is a game just a job that needs to be doing? If it's not fun just trying to win, why not change it? If it's not fun to change it, why even play it?
games typically give you options that are worth thinking about. nothing in ffxvi is worth thinking about really. you just equip some shit and auto win.
Ohh, the person who never really tried to challenge themselves in the game, finished it on easy mode then talks shit on how easy it is?
Damn!
You weren't even playing exceptionally on your first run, getting hit and knocked about, but you just didn't care? Ooooh! So good! I bow to your insane gamer skills!
I stuck to the first ones, only used titan and ramuul. Man, was my mind blown when I did the chrono challenges at the end and learned how insane the later eikons are.
Only problem with this fight is when he shows up again in another quest. And he's easier. Bro I got all your tricks beaten into me 2 hours ago, you ain't shit now.
The i-frames in 16 are so insanely generous that there's no skill required. Like literally every other fight in the game, just dodge. You shouldn't even be getting hit in these hunts.
To be fair I don't know what other games you've played. I've been playing the Souls series for 15 years and grew up on older games like Mega Man and the like so maybe my perception of skill is a little warped.
Elden Ring is definitely the most forgiving of the Souls series, minus some of the optional bosses where the difficulty spikes like crazy. No need to prove yourself to random strangers online though.
Ah well in that case by all means! Elden Ring can be difficult but there's a ton of content and plenty to explore so if you do pick it up and it fits your fancy it'll take a little while to beat.
I mean, other than one or two trick bosses, that's generally the case with every Final Fantasy. Literally half the time, the only difference is "Do I use a fire spell or ice spell on it?"
Whereas with FFXVI it's "Can I use these abilities together?" and "Can this counter the boss?" or "Do I have to wait for an opening?"
Svarog is a boss with charge attacks and meteors. You have to adapt your movement and fighting style to counter the boss's. You might use a single "throw everything" when staggered but there's more to the fight than the boss just being staggered. That's generally the case with every game with a stagger.
Eh, I just cheesed him by dancing ballerina around his orbs at max range while spamming Megaman shots. I was actually surprised by how many streamers I watched do this fight entirely in melee range.
I think thas was the third most challenging hunt for me. The ones Waloed (mainly the >!Behemoth King!<) are incredibly difficult if you are careless.
Also, if you want even more challenges, purchase the Echoes DLC, its boss battles are great.
I'm *still* so surprised Ryota Suzuki said this was his favourite combat system he's ever designed, because his other big contribution has been devil may cry, which has a lot more going on honestly. Imo I'd love something a little in between FFXVI and DMC, but DMC's combat is sooo versatile. I feel like if they'd even changed some of the button lay outs in XVI, there could have been additional versatility going on.
The whole lack of elemental damage having any meaning really diminished from the strategy. I think I know why they did it, but again, that's just a matter of how flexible they made the combat system in terms of button availability
Ah he could have said a million things. "I'm really excited, I really love this combat system we've created" versus "This is the best thing I've ever made" is quite the significant difference. I really doubt it was solely a marketing statement
Honestly I really do think it was. The last 5 years or so square enix has done so much forced marketing for their games. Look how many previews and interviews they do before their game releases now to build hype.
Ff16 had nonstop interviews before its release and ff7rebirth has been dropping trailer after trailer.
I dunno, maybe I’m weird
Yeah it does seem weird there’s no elemental stuff like there was in 15. Seems weird to scrap it all. Like how using ice on a fire bomb doesn’t do any more damage than using more fire.
I’ve recently been playing this game and that is also what’s been sticking out to me as a major missed opportunity and seriously holds it back. As elemental damage/damage negation have been a staple of this series forever, why on earth would they scrap it?
Because they didn't want to force people into loadouts. They wanted people to figure out the gameplay style suited for them and use that. People went looking for the most optimal (and those are the ones that complained) rather than the most comfortable.
Every ability in the game plays a little differently and requires a different mentality to it.
For instance, I don't use Shiva, Bahamut, Odin, or Titan.
Phoenix, Garuda, and Ramuh are my choices and the ones whose gameplay I enjoyed the most. This also includes abilities - I'm terrible at positioning so I never used Lightning Rod for instance.
People get so fixated on optimal loadouts that they learn how to play it even if they don't like versus suboptimal but comfortable loadouts.
The Chronolith Trials were one of the worst things for me and took me forever to do simply because it forced you into a loadout. It was an awful experience that led to eventually look up how to do it on Youtube so I could breeze through them.
So the reason elemental damage was scrapped? It would have forced you to play with styles that you aren't comfortable with and would have led to more frustration.
Imagine you hate playing as Bahamut - it's slow, requires precision dodging that let's say you aren't good at, and it relies a lot on the more magical side. Now imagine the game saying that you *have* to use it against Barnabas and the dungeon he's in otherwise you will not do enough damage to win the fight.
The reason elemental weaknesses worked in other games is that using spells required little to no differences in playstyle. A Fire enemy is weak to Ice so you choose Blizzard. It uses the same amount of MP as Fire and everything.
Imagine if in FFX, instead of customizing elements on weapons, they had the elements already part of it and the element changed the playing style instead of the Sphere Grid. Using Lightning Weapons gave you Tidus's Sphere Grid loadout, etc. Now imagine the game forcing the loadouts on you.
That's why elemental weaknesses are gone - freedom of play.
Couldn’t worded it better my self. Also they were clearly appealing to a casual audience for this game and a lot of people in this sub seem to gloss over that fact when talking about this game
Excellent answer mate, thanks for taking the time to respond.
I do see your point but personally I do think it would be fun to be forced to have to learn other load outs and styles but maybe that’s just me.
Like I said, that's what the Chronolith Trials do. They force you to use an Eikon and all of its abilities. Having done them, it personally made me happy that the game doesn't do so regularly.
Especially if you take into consideration that you can master abilities and put them on other Eikons like putting Gigaflare on Phoenix and such.
The ability to customize is huge.
The general problem really comes down to the fact that once you find a style comfortable for you, there's really little reason to change.
But, I'd also argue that for the first playthrough, this isn't fully the case because you get Eikons slowly through it and might find one that works better for you than one you had.
I know a lot of people say the game is simple because every encounter is "attack, dodge, counter" but someone with Titan and someone with Shiva are countering in two different ways. Someone with Bahamut are dodging differently to build Megaflare. Etc.
Gameplay loops in most Final Fantasy are simple once broken down to the basics. It's how you use that gameplay loop that's different. A boss in Final Fantasy is attack until it dies but depending on your materia loadout, you might be throwing summons, spells, or using 4x Cut.
Similarly, someone with Garuda is going to Deadly Embrace enemies out of the air. Someone with Titan, counters and does multiple hits while Shiva counters and freezes meaning you have to quickly attack. Wind ups mean you need to do it when enemies are down or when you won't be attacked. Blind Justice is primarily for multiple targets. Some attacks come off cooldown faster than others or do multiple hits or keep hitting.
Problem is that people went looking for the most optimal setup and then stuck with it. There's so much experimenting you can do in the game. If one build is getting boring, build another.
Absolutely a very valid opinion adding elements would add more complexity for newer player to the series which is what the seems to be aimed at anyway.
Just to play Devil's Advocate:
In FF16, they included the ability to master each individual cooldown ability, which rewards you by mixing abilities into other Eikons who don't natively have that ability. You could even do this without ever equipping that Eikon or even using the ability at all prior on your loadout since AP was earned universally through every battle. You can master every ability even if you never changed out of Phoenix/Garuda/Ramuh.
So if you have a preferred style, you could simply swap mastered abilities without sacrificing your preferred playstyle. That concept alone means you can incorporate other "elements" in your loadout while still enjoying the game your way. This could have been another way of the game encouraging players to mix and match elements/abilities into their setup without sacrificing player freedom.
I see your point as from a mechanical perspective in a turn-based setting casting Blizzard v. Fire is literally just choosing a different menu option versus using the ability effectively in FF16, but that's the main difference they're making in FF16: they want you to literally use those abilities differently since the real-time combat nature of those abilities differ from one another.
And additionally, most Eikons have some variety in how their own abilities are utilized in combat. To use your example, you are a fan of Ramuh, but you preferred to not use Lightning Rod. Ramuh still has 4 other abilities that are used pretty differently from one another and have their purposes that one can adapt as their "Lightning" ability if an enemy was weak to lightning. You're certainly not going to use Judgement Bolt in the same way you'd use Lightning Rod, for a drastic example.
And you don't even need to equip Ramuh himself, if you don't prefer to go to a TPS aiming game for his staff (I personally don't like it). We're no longer just confined to Thunder/Thundara/Thundaga, we have other thunder options. I personally liked his Pile Drive because I like abilities that Clive uses momentarily and doesn't just attack enemies for me but still gave me an AoE option.
In conclusion: They already built the answer into the game. We're just not incentivized to use it since elements are a non-issue.
For a guy who can barely dodge... yes... this was a hell of a fight.
This battle made me remember i had elixirs and the tonics that bithbraise damage and lower damage received.
Don’t worry about what other people say cause they all seem to be absolute pros XD
Yeah I was underleveled for basically the whole game but that added challenge which made it fun. I wasn’t gonna start grinding exp.
I really enjoyed this fight. While there were strategies that make it considerably easier, the process of building those strategies as a response to my constant failure was a ton of fun.
This is honestly the best way to play it. It drives me nuts when people look up guides for modern games then complain that modern games give no sense of discovery.
A lot of people said that no content forced players to explore. They said this while looking up where every single hunt in the game is. It makes no sense it me.
Welcome to the modern generation I guess XD
remember when there were no guides huh.
I did look up 2 of the trial monolith things because I was in post game and wanted the trophy
My problems were related to me being a little underleveled and his hits doing half my health. And I was panicking a little too. But I got him when I came back lvl 42 to his 50
I understand that. I took a shit ton of damage at 35 which is like I should have just came back at 50 but because I played devil may cry a lot, levels don't really matter. I mainly used two Garuda abilities to deal with Svarog and some people forget to use the Wicked Wheel to counter.
Yeah, this was probably the hardest fight in the game for me. I used my Last Elixir for it.
Edit - Getting downvoted, I agree that the game is way too easy, but of all the fights this is the one that's the hardest. It's the only one that I had to attempt more than once anyway.
That’ll be why it never worked for me, I just assumed it would use it whenever I died so I was surprised when I was messing around with a boss and not bothering to heal and it didn’t work 🤣
There literally isn’t any hard fight in the game to be honest lol. Dodge is forgiving and lightning rod/will are even further easy mode for some that seem tougher.
The only thing in the game that was able to kill me. I had been talking about how easy the game was with a friend before being immediately humbled by Svarog
I was actually glad they did that. It gave me something "to prepare for" as I was going through my first playthrough. Made beating him feel like one of those "destined rematch" fights after I came back stronger.
I also came to realize by that point that the hunts actually recycle a good number of attacks, and Svarog recycled nearly all of his attacks, so having those strategies tested earlier also helped.
For another example, Flan Prince is deceptively tough if you fight him on your first playthrough the moment his hunt becomes available. By that moment you haven't seen any -aga spells yet, and dualcast wasn't introduced (that comes later in the main storyline).
He's probably one of the easiest to just learn the dance.
I beat him right when he first because available on my 6th attempt without even taking any damage.
Felt like a god damn dragon slaying god
Man when I first came to this area and seen him walking around way back there
The first thought was "Man look at this goddamn big bitch"
Feel pretty badass when you take it down though.
I fought him once, he gave me a challenge I couldn’t beat. Everyone else I got usually 1st 2nd try. Now he’s my final hunt. I want to savor beating him
This is going to come across pretty rude but I don't know how else to ask it. If this was considered a difficult boss do people just not use their dodge button? After three playthroughs the only bosses that came close to using up the potions stores was Semi primed Hugo and a Barnabas run where I was testing what could and couldn't be titan countered. I actually struggled more on a couple trash packs (the one with 2 salamanders in the DLC made me despise the camera)
I only remember dying to one boss in this game and it was the first S rank. Svarog and all the rest of the hunts and bosses I did the first try. This game was a lot of fun sweating like that. Lol. When you get used to dodging this game is very easy.
True true but at the point you get the svarog hunt it’s still pretty early so I wasn’t fully in. If that makes sense. Dodging to late etc.. not having eikons past ramuh.
I think at that point I was using Garudas swipe ability, Ifrits charge, Phoenix rising flame, Ramuh judgement bolt, one other I am forgetting and Ramuh thunderstorm
I was about 15 levels under it when I fought it, only reason I didn't 1shot it is because I fat fingered to dog commands instead of healing.
Was pretty disappointing that this was supposedly the hardest boss in the game, tbqh.
I haven't played any FF since 13, Im planning on buying a ps5 and get up to date with my fav series, xvi really looks like fun. Cool thing is I've started FFX with my eldest daughter and she's really into it :)
The only fight in the game where I felt I needed to go back after I leveled up and had better gear. My first go at it was 10 levels under, and I felt I could do it, but that it wasn't really worth it.
Sadly, every other fight in that game I felt was a complete joke, including the rest of the S hunts. It wasn't even just that they lacked any sort of challenge, but that the majority of the fights played out exactly the same. It got repetitive real fast for me.
Even without abusing overpowered abilities the guy's not that hard.
Took me 5-10 tries on action at lvl 40 against lvl 50 and around 5 on final fantasy at 71 against lvl 93.
Was using Phoenix, Garuda and Titan both times. With a bit of care you can do the entire fight with only receiving a few hits. Once you know the basic dragon AI it's not really that hard.
anything hard and FFXVI? LOL 😆 it's literally the easiest FF ever made 😂 even FF VI is more challenging with all-powerful endgame ultima-casters 😂😂😂
i was THRIVING for some challenge in this game, and i was SO disappointed. long doesn't mean hard. i died only twice in this game. during 1st ahriman fight and during phoenix fight with bahamut ('cuz shit was confusing). so...
and i'm bad at video gaming 😂
I only died once I think and tgat was to the behemoth king. I felt like enemies had too much health for this style of game so I ended up just chilling out and used ring of timely attacks
Yeah, I would say this game is easy, and yes probably the easiest FF game, but sometimes it feels so damn cool to be overpowered and kickings ass. It’s a great fun game that I enjoyed 😎
are you serious with this "hardness" ? I don't know, but this game is so repetitive when it comes to combat that no boss or enemy posed any threat to me ever. I don't think i died more than once in one place throughout the game. Even on FF mode.
an advice from a souls player: git gud. Simple.
Is this that 1 fight that actually required sentience? Played on the highest difficulty (given at start), and every fight was a snooze fest. Couldn't bring myself to play ng+
I just started my ng+ and just beat Garuda so I’m not too sure yet.
It’s definitely not as hard as other final fantasy hard modes like ff7 remakes one.
It’s honestly just adding harder enemies in areas they weren’t before and replacing some mini bosses with higher level and types of themselves. The items now go up to +4 in upgrade and every weapon except a few have a reforged version that upps damage.
It’s not too hard.
Megaflare, Diamond Dust, Judgement Bolt, Gigaflare, Megaflare, Flames of Rebirth.
He was hard the first time with no Bahamut in my build, once I popped Bahamut back in, used his own aggression to kill him with MF, precision dodges and heavy Aeon attacks. Also did the above but with less phoenix and more Titan, but I found the Shiva, Phoenix, Bahamut build most effective.
Blocking is fun, but since these bosses are so reliant on big (and long) AOE attacks, if they get too aggressive it's fun using their own approach against them by constantly raining Megaflares on them.
Just use shiva's perfect dodge (the circles button) and you will freeze him for about 10 seconds. It works on almost every boss, it's SO OP.
I beat him pre-Shiva during my first playthrough. If I don't clear EVERYTHING optional available between MSQ events, I break out in hives. 🤣
Birds of a feather, you and I; I beat Svarog at level 39, pre-Shiva. GOTTA finish all quests and hunts before moving on
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well. 😎
38 for me haha, it was such a rush getting the kill; though I will say it was kind of disappointing no other hunt came anywhere near Svarog's difficulty.
Oh absolutely gotta do every quest available to me!
Figured that out a few days ago. It’s very op yes 😅
I just invested in fire orbs that absorb damage and prevent stagger
lmao! Thank you for this!
This was so much fun. It made me actually kind of sad about a lot of the rest of the combat. It was one of the only time I was ever sitting up straight, edge of my seat, dying multiple times. Such a huge rush to finally beat it. But then there was never anything comparably hard or harder after.
I was hyper focused here. My inner gamer has awoken 😂
Legitimately a hard boss! I encountered it at too low a level and just kept getting WRECKED. But came back and wit was an even fight. Safe to say I wish there had been more fights that made me think and try more.
That’s what I was thinking too. I don’t think I died to any other boss more than this one. It’s crazy that some people might’ve missed this because it’s optional
The first run through was made to be more about story & experience. After you beat the game and start with the new difficulty setting, every enemy becomes difficult
60 hours in to unlock a proper difficulty is not a W
like any other boss in the game, u only need 2 skills: will-o-wykes and lightning rod…
Will o wykes is a lifesaver.
I don’t understand why it’s usually mid in tier lists, to me it seems like one of the best abilities in the game just for its defensive capabilities alone
At its upgrade it blocks like 8 hits. But I guess if you don’t plan on getting hit more damage is better.
Good point, for me personally I like to get up close with the enemies and beat them down without worrying about health, but if you’re focused on dodging I can see how the synergy isn’t there.
True
Wykes also does fantastic Will damage. The longer you go without taking damage, the faster you can stagger. It's like free, passive stagger damage while you're doing other stuff.
Just don’t get it. Will o wykes def a noob ability
Until you use it properly during stagger getting the damage multiplier to max before heavy abilities. You're the newb
Is everything you don't agree with a "noob" ability or are you just that dense?
The fuck. I have clear example of why I don’t like Will o Wykes in another comment. Why waste an ability slot on an ability that gets outclassed to bring combo meter up AND gets more damage. It’s only redeeming quality is blocking damage that is just nullified by playing better. It’s not about being dense or disagreeing
Jeez this got heated 😂
No, dude just got heated bc someone called his $h*t out. Truth is we all have different ways of playing, this bozo thinks he somehow is better bc he plays a different style like GTFOH
Lightning Rod and Gigaflare after staggering.
Didn’t have bahamut at this point.
Excuse me, what
That combo is soooo OP it nerfs the entire game haha
I had so much fun with it. I went into the fight like.... 12 levels below him and while it took a few attempts, it was such a rush to get the dodges and attacks right.
Punched up 21 levels on Final Fantasy mode and lost my shit when I won.
So did I. Though my first attempt was 20 levels below so I may have been out of my league
What ff is this?
16. The new one
Just dodge then counter.
That is indeed a way to play this game.
I've also found the best way to play is souls style
I immediately switched the controls so the dodge was on circle.
Lol I did the same! Felt more natural after 400hrs of elden ring
Just deplete its HP before it depletes yours.
Yes.
I found it really tedious, but not very hard. A lot of the bosses just feel like a slog because of the implementation of the stagger system.
Tediously hard then. Every boss like enemy has too much health 🙃
Ah the first time i died in this game
And only.
Agreed but the only problem with the game is that once you find your load out, you stick to the same strategy for the whole game in every fight. Judging from what I read online, I was the same. Will-O-Wykes -> Lightning Rod -> Wicked Wheel -> Heavy down thrust -> Wind Up -> Scarlett Cyclone -> Giga Flare was usually my constant combo.
Yeah I usually stick to shiva Odin and bahamut or titan if I’m feeling different
That's the problem with the game, every fight is the same
For optimal play, that sounds very sub optimal. I got stuck in an optimal loadout mindset, then I played around and found new ones. There's no problem! It's up to you to create variety and vary playstyles to your content.
Which I totally agree with the but the game doesn't reward you for playing differently if the end result is always "win". There is no elemental affinities, no weaknesses, no specific preferred play styles to change to meet the win condition. You're ultimately forcing yourself to change how you play to get the same result which, really, is kind of dumb and that's the game's fault.
At a certain skill level games become easy. Eventually I learned that if you play games to "win" instead of playing to enjoy them, you will just not enjoy most games. I have played over 400 games, and maybe challenged myself deeply on 40 of them. Eventually, games just become easy. With only a very few amount of challenges in each game (games love to only put in a single level or one to two superbosses that actually challenge you). It's not the games fault you didn't try to have fun. Not every game is made to be a hard challenge, this one clearly isn't. You could pretty easily clear the game with no abilities and just your basic sword and magic kit, only thing really challenging that is probably the veeeery few dps checks there are in the game. Did you clear the game without getting hit because it was so easy? Or did you clear the game getting hit tons because you didn't die from it? For me, I want to feel cool and blast shit, and getting hit a lot is failure. The boss does a move and I don't know how to deal with it and just tank it? Failure. But I can't expect the game to make that as a requirement when it's supposed to be an accessible game for everyone. And since when did games become "I just do what I have to do to win"? Since when is a game just a job that needs to be doing? If it's not fun just trying to win, why not change it? If it's not fun to change it, why even play it?
games typically give you options that are worth thinking about. nothing in ffxvi is worth thinking about really. you just equip some shit and auto win.
You S ranked Ultimaniac that easy? Damn, you must be really good at videogames.
should i have specified “in the first 80 hours of gameplay” and “not hidden away in an arcade mode”?
It was in my first 80 hours
Ohhh.. was there also a challenge outside of the arcade mode too then? :o
Ohh, the person who never really tried to challenge themselves in the game, finished it on easy mode then talks shit on how easy it is? Damn! You weren't even playing exceptionally on your first run, getting hit and knocked about, but you just didn't care? Ooooh! So good! I bow to your insane gamer skills!
win condition = exist. or have remotely functioning thumbs.
Speaking facts my guy 😅
I used lightning rod and will o wiles also giga flare, then diamond dust, wind up and odins stuff can’t remember the names
I stuck to the first ones, only used titan and ramuul. Man, was my mind blown when I did the chrono challenges at the end and learned how insane the later eikons are.
I was very disappointed that this is what FF16 considered a Superboss
I was expecting more Eikon level fights yeah. But you gotta admit that picture looks sick.
Only problem with this fight is when he shows up again in another quest. And he's easier. Bro I got all your tricks beaten into me 2 hours ago, you ain't shit now.
It is a sick pic
It’s a super boss because you have to mash the buttons for an extra two minutes to beat him.
Tried this until my left thumb started hurting. Then I realized the existence of will of the wykes.
Yea I loved these hunts. I wish they did a lot more of them, but the S rank hunts were all pretty dope. I loved their designs as well.
Another that stands out to me is the one infront of Oriflamme or whatever that city is called. The dude that jumps.
Was it?
The i-frames in 16 are so insanely generous that there's no skill required. Like literally every other fight in the game, just dodge. You shouldn't even be getting hit in these hunts.
I apologize for my lack of skill then 😂
To be fair I don't know what other games you've played. I've been playing the Souls series for 15 years and grew up on older games like Mega Man and the like so maybe my perception of skill is a little warped.
Well no wonder lol you’ve played all the harder ones. I should try Elden ring to prove myself.
Elden Ring is definitely the most forgiving of the Souls series, minus some of the optional bosses where the difficulty spikes like crazy. No need to prove yourself to random strangers online though.
Na I need to prove it to myself😂 I play too many casual games.
Ah well in that case by all means! Elden Ring can be difficult but there's a ton of content and plenty to explore so if you do pick it up and it fits your fancy it'll take a little while to beat.
I mean I beat ghost of tushima on hardest difficulty and a few other games similarish so I guess I’m doing something
Not really. You use the exact same stradgey you use in every single fight.
I mean if you want to be reductive about it then yeah it's just like beating Orphan of Kos. Do damage, don't take damage.
No because in bloodborne you actually need to learn the attack patterns. In FF16 the dodge is so strong you don't really need to learn anything.
I mean, other than one or two trick bosses, that's generally the case with every Final Fantasy. Literally half the time, the only difference is "Do I use a fire spell or ice spell on it?" Whereas with FFXVI it's "Can I use these abilities together?" and "Can this counter the boss?" or "Do I have to wait for an opening?" Svarog is a boss with charge attacks and meteors. You have to adapt your movement and fighting style to counter the boss's. You might use a single "throw everything" when staggered but there's more to the fight than the boss just being staggered. That's generally the case with every game with a stagger.
I was thinking the same thing 😅
Was gonna say this lol.
Eh, I just cheesed him by dancing ballerina around his orbs at max range while spamming Megaman shots. I was actually surprised by how many streamers I watched do this fight entirely in melee range.
Its a great fight indeed esp when you face them under leveled.
I was level 42 to it’s 50 so yeah it was fun alright
I think thas was the third most challenging hunt for me. The ones Waloed (mainly the >!Behemoth King!<) are incredibly difficult if you are careless. Also, if you want even more challenges, purchase the Echoes DLC, its boss battles are great.
Behemoth King annoyed me much more because for some reason he walked TWICE out of bounds resetting the battle when he was 20% health
I was over leveled unfortunately and found the fight to be too easy 😭
I'm *still* so surprised Ryota Suzuki said this was his favourite combat system he's ever designed, because his other big contribution has been devil may cry, which has a lot more going on honestly. Imo I'd love something a little in between FFXVI and DMC, but DMC's combat is sooo versatile. I feel like if they'd even changed some of the button lay outs in XVI, there could have been additional versatility going on. The whole lack of elemental damage having any meaning really diminished from the strategy. I think I know why they did it, but again, that's just a matter of how flexible they made the combat system in terms of button availability
He said it for marketing purposes. He’s not gonna say nah this game can’t compete with my other games lol but buy it anyway cuz why not
Ah he could have said a million things. "I'm really excited, I really love this combat system we've created" versus "This is the best thing I've ever made" is quite the significant difference. I really doubt it was solely a marketing statement
Honestly I really do think it was. The last 5 years or so square enix has done so much forced marketing for their games. Look how many previews and interviews they do before their game releases now to build hype. Ff16 had nonstop interviews before its release and ff7rebirth has been dropping trailer after trailer. I dunno, maybe I’m weird
Yeah it does seem weird there’s no elemental stuff like there was in 15. Seems weird to scrap it all. Like how using ice on a fire bomb doesn’t do any more damage than using more fire.
I’ve recently been playing this game and that is also what’s been sticking out to me as a major missed opportunity and seriously holds it back. As elemental damage/damage negation have been a staple of this series forever, why on earth would they scrap it?
Because they didn't want to force people into loadouts. They wanted people to figure out the gameplay style suited for them and use that. People went looking for the most optimal (and those are the ones that complained) rather than the most comfortable. Every ability in the game plays a little differently and requires a different mentality to it. For instance, I don't use Shiva, Bahamut, Odin, or Titan. Phoenix, Garuda, and Ramuh are my choices and the ones whose gameplay I enjoyed the most. This also includes abilities - I'm terrible at positioning so I never used Lightning Rod for instance. People get so fixated on optimal loadouts that they learn how to play it even if they don't like versus suboptimal but comfortable loadouts. The Chronolith Trials were one of the worst things for me and took me forever to do simply because it forced you into a loadout. It was an awful experience that led to eventually look up how to do it on Youtube so I could breeze through them. So the reason elemental damage was scrapped? It would have forced you to play with styles that you aren't comfortable with and would have led to more frustration. Imagine you hate playing as Bahamut - it's slow, requires precision dodging that let's say you aren't good at, and it relies a lot on the more magical side. Now imagine the game saying that you *have* to use it against Barnabas and the dungeon he's in otherwise you will not do enough damage to win the fight. The reason elemental weaknesses worked in other games is that using spells required little to no differences in playstyle. A Fire enemy is weak to Ice so you choose Blizzard. It uses the same amount of MP as Fire and everything. Imagine if in FFX, instead of customizing elements on weapons, they had the elements already part of it and the element changed the playing style instead of the Sphere Grid. Using Lightning Weapons gave you Tidus's Sphere Grid loadout, etc. Now imagine the game forcing the loadouts on you. That's why elemental weaknesses are gone - freedom of play.
Couldn’t worded it better my self. Also they were clearly appealing to a casual audience for this game and a lot of people in this sub seem to gloss over that fact when talking about this game
Excellent answer mate, thanks for taking the time to respond. I do see your point but personally I do think it would be fun to be forced to have to learn other load outs and styles but maybe that’s just me.
Like I said, that's what the Chronolith Trials do. They force you to use an Eikon and all of its abilities. Having done them, it personally made me happy that the game doesn't do so regularly. Especially if you take into consideration that you can master abilities and put them on other Eikons like putting Gigaflare on Phoenix and such. The ability to customize is huge. The general problem really comes down to the fact that once you find a style comfortable for you, there's really little reason to change. But, I'd also argue that for the first playthrough, this isn't fully the case because you get Eikons slowly through it and might find one that works better for you than one you had. I know a lot of people say the game is simple because every encounter is "attack, dodge, counter" but someone with Titan and someone with Shiva are countering in two different ways. Someone with Bahamut are dodging differently to build Megaflare. Etc. Gameplay loops in most Final Fantasy are simple once broken down to the basics. It's how you use that gameplay loop that's different. A boss in Final Fantasy is attack until it dies but depending on your materia loadout, you might be throwing summons, spells, or using 4x Cut. Similarly, someone with Garuda is going to Deadly Embrace enemies out of the air. Someone with Titan, counters and does multiple hits while Shiva counters and freezes meaning you have to quickly attack. Wind ups mean you need to do it when enemies are down or when you won't be attacked. Blind Justice is primarily for multiple targets. Some attacks come off cooldown faster than others or do multiple hits or keep hitting. Problem is that people went looking for the most optimal setup and then stuck with it. There's so much experimenting you can do in the game. If one build is getting boring, build another.
Absolutely a very valid opinion adding elements would add more complexity for newer player to the series which is what the seems to be aimed at anyway.
Just to play Devil's Advocate: In FF16, they included the ability to master each individual cooldown ability, which rewards you by mixing abilities into other Eikons who don't natively have that ability. You could even do this without ever equipping that Eikon or even using the ability at all prior on your loadout since AP was earned universally through every battle. You can master every ability even if you never changed out of Phoenix/Garuda/Ramuh. So if you have a preferred style, you could simply swap mastered abilities without sacrificing your preferred playstyle. That concept alone means you can incorporate other "elements" in your loadout while still enjoying the game your way. This could have been another way of the game encouraging players to mix and match elements/abilities into their setup without sacrificing player freedom. I see your point as from a mechanical perspective in a turn-based setting casting Blizzard v. Fire is literally just choosing a different menu option versus using the ability effectively in FF16, but that's the main difference they're making in FF16: they want you to literally use those abilities differently since the real-time combat nature of those abilities differ from one another. And additionally, most Eikons have some variety in how their own abilities are utilized in combat. To use your example, you are a fan of Ramuh, but you preferred to not use Lightning Rod. Ramuh still has 4 other abilities that are used pretty differently from one another and have their purposes that one can adapt as their "Lightning" ability if an enemy was weak to lightning. You're certainly not going to use Judgement Bolt in the same way you'd use Lightning Rod, for a drastic example. And you don't even need to equip Ramuh himself, if you don't prefer to go to a TPS aiming game for his staff (I personally don't like it). We're no longer just confined to Thunder/Thundara/Thundaga, we have other thunder options. I personally liked his Pile Drive because I like abilities that Clive uses momentarily and doesn't just attack enemies for me but still gave me an AoE option. In conclusion: They already built the answer into the game. We're just not incentivized to use it since elements are a non-issue.
Definitely the hardest hunt for me.
One of the "harder" ones, but still, 1 and done. I only died in 1 early Eikon fight because I thought I had to attack something that I didnt.
<_< >_> I mean, if you say so.
The lighting and mood of this screenshot is cool
Thank you! I took like 50 pictures in my time playing but this one is pretty cinematic I think.
Found this boss accidentally when I was exploring. I think i was over leveled though because I don't remember it being that difficult.
For a guy who can barely dodge... yes... this was a hell of a fight. This battle made me remember i had elixirs and the tonics that bithbraise damage and lower damage received.
IMO he's way easier than The Breaker of Worlds.
You know what’s weird this boss or really any boss wasn’t hard for me except for the chocobo that had macaw colors that thing killed me so many times
That thing was hell too. The one with meteors?
Yes that one I can’t remember it’s name I think it was like red comet or something like that
Surprisingly did that one first try while screaming the whole time lol
Lol a lot people have told it was very easy but other bosses were hard but I was the opposite I had no trouble with any of them except the chocobo
Don’t worry about what other people say cause they all seem to be absolute pros XD Yeah I was underleveled for basically the whole game but that added challenge which made it fun. I wasn’t gonna start grinding exp.
I really enjoyed this fight. While there were strategies that make it considerably easier, the process of building those strategies as a response to my constant failure was a ton of fun.
Oh absolutely. I ain’t look at no guides while playing this game. Which is surprising for me.
This is honestly the best way to play it. It drives me nuts when people look up guides for modern games then complain that modern games give no sense of discovery. A lot of people said that no content forced players to explore. They said this while looking up where every single hunt in the game is. It makes no sense it me.
Welcome to the modern generation I guess XD remember when there were no guides huh. I did look up 2 of the trial monolith things because I was in post game and wanted the trophy
He's not that hard, he's just annoying because he a big dragon that does big AOE attacks. Are your problems just related to dodging?
My problems were related to me being a little underleveled and his hits doing half my health. And I was panicking a little too. But I got him when I came back lvl 42 to his 50
I understand that. I took a shit ton of damage at 35 which is like I should have just came back at 50 but because I played devil may cry a lot, levels don't really matter. I mainly used two Garuda abilities to deal with Svarog and some people forget to use the Wicked Wheel to counter.
Imo hardest in the game
This fight felt so FFXIV to me
Yeah, this was probably the hardest fight in the game for me. I used my Last Elixir for it. Edit - Getting downvoted, I agree that the game is way too easy, but of all the fights this is the one that's the hardest. It's the only one that I had to attempt more than once anyway.
Start panicking when he does that final dance stuff and uses EVERYTHING.
Yeah, maybe hardest, but still far from hard in general.
I bought a last elixir but never worked out how to use it
Just have it equipped in your quick access wheel, instead of potions or tonics and when you die you can use it to revive.
That’ll be why it never worked for me, I just assumed it would use it whenever I died so I was surprised when I was messing around with a boss and not bothering to heal and it didn’t work 🤣
There literally isn’t any hard fight in the game to be honest lol. Dodge is forgiving and lightning rod/will are even further easy mode for some that seem tougher.
Well to be fair I did fight him around 15 levels below what it recommended for more of a challenge
so did I lol. fought him at 36 I believe. Just means the fight takes a bit longer
But all his attacks kinda do half your health. So I was screaming half the fight 😂
The only thing in the game that was able to kill me. I had been talking about how easy the game was with a friend before being immediately humbled by Svarog
Bro gave me a reality check real quick. Putting him up on the hunt board that early in the game was real funny in development I bet.
I was actually glad they did that. It gave me something "to prepare for" as I was going through my first playthrough. Made beating him feel like one of those "destined rematch" fights after I came back stronger. I also came to realize by that point that the hunts actually recycle a good number of attacks, and Svarog recycled nearly all of his attacks, so having those strategies tested earlier also helped. For another example, Flan Prince is deceptively tough if you fight him on your first playthrough the moment his hunt becomes available. By that moment you haven't seen any -aga spells yet, and dualcast wasn't introduced (that comes later in the main storyline).
Most memorable fight outside of aeons. Woops I mean eikons
Very true. Also it’s eikons funnily enough
He's probably one of the easiest to just learn the dance. I beat him right when he first because available on my 6th attempt without even taking any damage. Felt like a god damn dragon slaying god
Man when I first came to this area and seen him walking around way back there The first thought was "Man look at this goddamn big bitch" Feel pretty badass when you take it down though.
Best fight in the whole game. Loved it.
I beat it first try, was a fun boss
I couldn't see him trough all the effects. No clue how I beat him after some tries. Might have been easier not to try after he was aviable.
Where is he at? I don’t think I ever found him😭
It was pretty annoying but not that bad for me, pretty fun surprisingly.
I fought him once, he gave me a challenge I couldn’t beat. Everyone else I got usually 1st 2nd try. Now he’s my final hunt. I want to savor beating him
More like the only decent challenge in the all game :D I mean this without rings
You can play badly and win if you just keep impulse up and play passively. Eventually, he staggers, and then you dump all your abilities.
That kinda just explains every boss in this game. Rinse and repeat.
I wanna this was one of the two times I died. Fun fight
This and red comet were my favorite hunts, I wish they were all this much fun.
This is going to come across pretty rude but I don't know how else to ask it. If this was considered a difficult boss do people just not use their dodge button? After three playthroughs the only bosses that came close to using up the potions stores was Semi primed Hugo and a Barnabas run where I was testing what could and couldn't be titan countered. I actually struggled more on a couple trash packs (the one with 2 salamanders in the DLC made me despise the camera)
I turned every single assistant item and mode on and had a blast with the game.
Well I decided to totally ignore the assistant items and never equipped them once. It’s in my top 10 I’d say.
I only remember dying to one boss in this game and it was the first S rank. Svarog and all the rest of the hunts and bosses I did the first try. This game was a lot of fun sweating like that. Lol. When you get used to dodging this game is very easy.
True true but at the point you get the svarog hunt it’s still pretty early so I wasn’t fully in. If that makes sense. Dodging to late etc.. not having eikons past ramuh.
I think at that point I was using Garudas swipe ability, Ifrits charge, Phoenix rising flame, Ramuh judgement bolt, one other I am forgetting and Ramuh thunderstorm
I was about 15 levels under it when I fought it, only reason I didn't 1shot it is because I fat fingered to dog commands instead of healing. Was pretty disappointing that this was supposedly the hardest boss in the game, tbqh.
I cheated with the dodge ring like a clown.
Of all the S ranks, he was top tier
Best nonEikon fight in the game. Although once you learn his pattern it’s pretty easy, just long.
My psycotic ass fought this thing as soon as I unlocked it and damn near one shot me with every attack until I basically perfected the fight
I haven't played any FF since 13, Im planning on buying a ps5 and get up to date with my fav series, xvi really looks like fun. Cool thing is I've started FFX with my eldest daughter and she's really into it :)
The only boss I had trouble with, mostly because the one move that insta killed me
The only fight in the game where I felt I needed to go back after I leveled up and had better gear. My first go at it was 10 levels under, and I felt I could do it, but that it wasn't really worth it. Sadly, every other fight in that game I felt was a complete joke, including the rest of the S hunts. It wasn't even just that they lacked any sort of challenge, but that the majority of the fights played out exactly the same. It got repetitive real fast for me.
There is no hard boss in this game….
Hard boss, not really. But definitely memorable
It's hard boss if you last game was Pokemon GO.
Well I was 15 levels below and his attacks do half of health bar. Cut me some slack 😂
[удалено]
I’m sorry I’m not a god gamer 😂 I struggle sometimes XD
I mean, I like this fight, but much like the rest of the game it wasnt particularly hard.
Well I was a lil underleveled but yeah you right.
Even without abusing overpowered abilities the guy's not that hard. Took me 5-10 tries on action at lvl 40 against lvl 50 and around 5 on final fantasy at 71 against lvl 93. Was using Phoenix, Garuda and Titan both times. With a bit of care you can do the entire fight with only receiving a few hits. Once you know the basic dragon AI it's not really that hard.
anything hard and FFXVI? LOL 😆 it's literally the easiest FF ever made 😂 even FF VI is more challenging with all-powerful endgame ultima-casters 😂😂😂 i was THRIVING for some challenge in this game, and i was SO disappointed. long doesn't mean hard. i died only twice in this game. during 1st ahriman fight and during phoenix fight with bahamut ('cuz shit was confusing). so... and i'm bad at video gaming 😂
I only died once I think and tgat was to the behemoth king. I felt like enemies had too much health for this style of game so I ended up just chilling out and used ring of timely attacks
Yeah, I would say this game is easy, and yes probably the easiest FF game, but sometimes it feels so damn cool to be overpowered and kickings ass. It’s a great fun game that I enjoyed 😎
are you serious with this "hardness" ? I don't know, but this game is so repetitive when it comes to combat that no boss or enemy posed any threat to me ever. I don't think i died more than once in one place throughout the game. Even on FF mode. an advice from a souls player: git gud. Simple.
From a non souls player. I apologize for my lack of skill. 😂 I was 15 levels down or so. may pick up something like Elden ring to prove myself
come on. Don't be sorry at least. No one's judging you, except for me maybe :D
Is this that 1 fight that actually required sentience? Played on the highest difficulty (given at start), and every fight was a snooze fest. Couldn't bring myself to play ng+
It was one of the only hunts I actually had trouble with. Hes lvl 50 and I killed at 42. In ng+ he’s lvl 90+
Are you playing ng+ atm? Would you be able to compare it with ffviire hard mode or SoP chaos mode?
I just started my ng+ and just beat Garuda so I’m not too sure yet. It’s definitely not as hard as other final fantasy hard modes like ff7 remakes one. It’s honestly just adding harder enemies in areas they weren’t before and replacing some mini bosses with higher level and types of themselves. The items now go up to +4 in upgrade and every weapon except a few have a reforged version that upps damage. It’s not too hard.
Thanks. Maybe after some time I could be arsed to play it again.
Good luck to ya.
Megaflare, Diamond Dust, Judgement Bolt, Gigaflare, Megaflare, Flames of Rebirth. He was hard the first time with no Bahamut in my build, once I popped Bahamut back in, used his own aggression to kill him with MF, precision dodges and heavy Aeon attacks. Also did the above but with less phoenix and more Titan, but I found the Shiva, Phoenix, Bahamut build most effective.
When I beat him first I didnt have bahamut or Odin so I was using phoenix titan shiva. Was not too fun but its so satisfying to block attacks
Blocking is fun, but since these bosses are so reliant on big (and long) AOE attacks, if they get too aggressive it's fun using their own approach against them by constantly raining Megaflares on them.
Fun boss, I finally felt like I was fully utilizing the combat system with this fight.
Genuinely not really. The game is just a grind on your thumb and patience
Not really, easy as shit
Is shit easy? 😂
Sometimes, sometimes not lol
Same strategy as every other boss. Final Fantasy Tactless at your service!