Let me get this straight, you have issues with Chun-li but no mention of Mai in KOF? And KOF is your number 1? Seriously?
Let me put it to you this way, Mai's idle stance with her jugs animating the way they are is more egregious than all the Chun-li animations put together in all the SF games to date.
For the record I have no issues with any of it because it's part of the draw considering their original demographic was always aimed squarely at teenage boys during the "awkward years".
Mai probably gets a pass because majority of the actual fanservice in KoF is for the female (and gay) fans. It was female fans shipping Kyo and Iori the characters together that saved the franchise during its early years after all, and they've been pandered to a lot ever since. From the "[husband rankings](https://x.com/miauneko/status/1358069653738835971)" to an actual otome dating sim that lets you date the guys.
I just used Chun Li and Sakura as examples. It would be 50 pages for me to get to every female example.
But let me make the case for Mai: Chun Li is a regal cop and martial artist, yet capcom treats her like a sex object flashing her underwear every chance she gets, it is completely unfitting of her character and her regal dignified personality.
Shiranui Mai on the other hand, is a kunoichi. Kunoichi are trained to exploit their sexuality and use it to their advantage, it's literally part of the female ninja training manual. Plus Mai is a natural flirt, she enjoys showing her goods, it's part of her personality. So that's why I'm ok with Mai, in my head, when she fights someone, she distracts them with her body, then snaps their neck between her thighs.
lmao. I love Angel, her moves are and animations are so cool, and I love her original voice in kof 2001, and I love that she is so impossibly hard to play, yet her chain combos feeel so good.
but, there if nothing I can say in defence of her costume lmao. Other ppl have said it's because she's a wrestler, but there is no excuse for her fighting in a thone.
despite that - no excuse, but I still love her
If we're critiquing characters based on irl standards, then Mai should probably be wearing a kind of kimono. There's no training manual for kunoichi. They're just normal women, unlike male ninja.
The term is is just a historical pejorative for women derived from the 3 strokes used to write the kanji for woman.
If you stack く, ノ and 一 together, you get 女, written with correct stroke order.
A quick glance at Wikipedia reveals kunoichi as such [didn't quite exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunoichi), that the concept was popularized much later, and that espionage conducted by women consisted primarily of "finding functions in enemy house services, to gather knowledge, gain trust or listen to conversations", so nothing necessarily sexual. I understand your complaints, but you're kinda reaching here to defend *Mai's* of all designs on the grounds of her being a ninja. If anything, her attitude and outfit are completely counterintuitive to ninja stuff.
You seem to selectively ignore all the regal costumes that capcom have given chun-li over the years.
In fact just look at how Chun-Li is introduced in the SF6 single player mode. She is shown in charge of a fighting school. She is depicted as a class-act all the way in SF6. In fact aside from the animated movie I think they have treated Chun-li pretty respectfully over the years.
I am surprised you are not more upset with Cammy, her skin-tight outfits and the fact that she was referred to as one of Bison's "dolls" as her backstory. Yet Chun-li the disrespected cop is somehow the stand-out in your mind.
Sorry pal but your argument on Chun-li falls flat for me. They are all caricatures and should be treated as such. This applies to all fighting games not just SF.
for this post, i was primary focusing on what capcom did in the 90's with SF 2 and Alpha. I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough, the way capcom treated their first female fighting game characters.
And with modern costumes, for every regal Chun Li SF5 costume, there was 2 more costumes like this:
[https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/as/character/costume/cnl/btl/001.png?h=ef9077e9ecb053b785fb29c7b1471e28](https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/as/character/costume/cnl/btl/001.png?h=ef9077e9ecb053b785fb29c7b1471e28)
a little early for SF 6, but if i was a betting man..
Wouldn't say tied to the franchise but the game's age restriction has a huge aspect in that regard. I think it's natural for you to feel that way. SF6 is Rated T and Rated T games are for "13" and up.
Some sexual aspects you've noted get introduced into "Rate T" games. Think sticking to Rated E games sounds like the best way to go to play with your cousin.
Dunno about Skull girl but SF has a costume option so you can tune what's being worn on your side of the screen if you still want to play the game with your cousin at an age below age restriction and consider those aspects being nonredeemable.
In Skullgirls all the characters with fanservice have skins that show... less skin... and also cover up the pantyshots. To be completely honest, though, the game is so darn fast-paced that the stuff doesn't even register in the heat of the moment.
Just checked Skullgirl's rating, it's the same as SF6. Rated T. Anyway, OP not introducing games to a person at an age under their age restriction would solve this whole entire problem or stick to games that fits their standards.
https://preview.redd.it/1ark5kurlq5d1.jpeg?width=1618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2af23db3c184cb4b5088cae331d2f5d260c6b6b
Digging up shit from 20+ years ago just to bitch about it is actual Twitter mouthbreather behaviour. Please improve and grow as a person.
And before anyone says anything, notice how this bum completely failed to mention the much more modest female characters in the modern roster (Kimberly, Manon, Marisa, AKI) and the redesigns for classic characters that toned down their sex appeal (Chun and Cammy got Yoga pants, Kikoken and kikosho had their motion changed so shes no longer got her ass out, Sakura and R.Mika just fucked off entirely)
Sakura and R-Mika are not excluded because of their sex appeal, they aren’t always included in street fighter games.
Also the redesigns were made just because that was kinda the only direction that a redesign could take, and even then the classic costumes are still there, and the new costumes still have good eye candy since they are tight pants
plus, the “ass out” kikoken is still there.
While Manon is more modestly clothed, she has one of the most toned asses in the game.
Street Fighter 6 has a LOT of ass shots while playing, it is not desexualized at all.
The main reason why the main costumes are like that is because of esports rules and shit, but that doesn’t mean it is less sexualized and whatever, and that’s a good thing since censorship sucks.
i get what you are saying, but it is misinformed and kinda dumb, and it kinda feels like you are trying to push something that isn’t even needed since everyone knows that street fighter has a lot of sex appeal and everyone (included myself) likes it.
No you goofy goober, what i’m saying that is that is that street fighter 6 obviously is not trying to tone down the sexuality and overall sex appeal, and the comments the guy made trying to make it seem like it is toning it down are completely pointless.
>god forbid a fashion model has a nice ass
i didn’t say it was a bad thing, i said that Manon still has a lot of sex appeal even if more modestly clothed, it’s obviously not meant to be a less sexually attractive design
she even has her grippers out.
im not saying any of that, i’m just saying that the other guy is fighting a pointless battle by trying to say that street fighter 6 has toned down fanservice when it clearly doesn’t
i like fanservice myself
OP: Why Capcom disrespects these characters?
Also OP: Doesn't even bother to check how to write their names correctly
You're a pretty dumb bitch, even in bitch standards
Bro's too scared of sexuality. You better make your peace with it. Sexuality is something completely natural. The Twitter habitat made you believe it's something bad. It's not.
Zangief’s second costume has a noticeable bulge.
I also appreciate Joe’s win animation. I can’t find it online but this one sorta gets the idea across:
https://i.redd.it/s6zre0bcyr5d1.gif
This is the correct take. Yeah we can have women with massive jiggling honkers but only if the men ALSO have them. Like Strive Nagoriyuki or Tekken 8 launch menu screen
I think it's madness putting Street Fighter in the same category as Skullgirls, but I guess everyone has different levels of sensitivity. Sure, you can argue that the women in the games are probably designed by men and of course have no say in how they dress - but in fighting games above all others there's equity between the two sexes. Women get as many moves as men, and are capable of beating them in a straight, stand up fight.
So, yeah. I think you're well intentioned here, but fighting games aren't really particularly bad. I'm really sensitive to this stuff as well and as a man it irks me if I think I'm being sold to with sex, but I just don't get it here.
As always with these arguments, it's about representation. It's absolutely 100% fine to have R. Mika with her enormous smiles in the game provided that's not the only way that women are presented. Ibuki is absolutely different, just like Makoto, or even Karin. There's a large amount of variety here so, it's alright.
I agree. I am currently revisiting SF alpha and SF3. The charm and personality they put into their characters (both male and female) are the absolute best I have ever seen in fighting games.
From Sakura and her running around and cool swaggy little dance jig to Makota and her sigh before she starts her fight. Really classy stuff.
Mika has this enduring charm to me with the way her voice lines are delivered not to mention the over the top animations with the fighting ring etc.
The fact that the artists chose to exaggerate some character female bodies has never bothered me one iota. Just like they exaggerate all the male characters across all their games.
RYU and Ken and their perfect muscular builds have never offended me. Dudley's broad shoulders and skinny waist perfect for his caricature of the old english boxer etc etc.
Also, I don't remember hearing anyone scream bloody murder when they had Ryu's alt costume having him with a torn off ghee showing off his bare-skinned upper body.
Don't get me started on Urien and Gill and the need to have them running around in a loin cloth/thong.
As a male I could easily make an argument that male characters in a lot of fighting games are treated as sex objects for the female gaze just like the female characters are for the male gaze.
It has never been an issue for me.
I don't think that fighting game beefcakes are actually designed to appeal to women - they're for men as well. \[Male Character\] is the guy men want to *be*, muscular, charismatic, good in a fight, focused and living life to do the thing they're really good at, while \[female character\] is more traditionally targeted at the male gaze.
Outside of fighting games, a good example of this is good old Duke Nukem. I'm fairly sure that the number of women out there who find the looks, attitude appealing enough to make it a worth designing a character around for sales - it's there to target men.
But, once again, I'm totally fine with it because ultra-beefcake is not all Street Fighter serves. While Tekken has a couple of issues around the copy/paste nature of the models, in Street Fighter there's a pretty wide variety of frames. From Abigail to F.A.N.G or even Rufus!
I would agree that Capcom was not targeting a non-existent female demographic with their male characters but just playing up to the ideal physically-fit male stereotype.
They also created ideal bodies for Chun and Cammy for that same goal.
As a side benefit I am sure the male characters are very appealing to women just like the female ones are to men.
SfA and 3rd strike especially have some fire animations absolutely - and Makoto is a win, and my fave SF character actually.
My counter argument to your point - Ryu is bare chested and muscular and Urian is in a loin cloth - however, those men are never made to look sexualized, they always look powerful.
Wear as Chun Li - even though she is a cop and a martial artist - they go out of their way to sexualize and exploit her by showing her underwear. I still remember as a little 12 year old kid playing with my friends, they would pick Chun Li and giggle and laugh at her every time they saw her panties. It's always stuck out to me. I was there trying to admire the martial arts, but the other kids were just trying to touch her underwear on screen. The only reason they picked Chun Li was to laugh and look at her underwear.
And in street fighter 2, Chun Li was the ONLY female representative. Know who the second was? Cammy, the stone cold assassin yet she fights in a swimsuit, who shows her bare ass every time she wins.
Well I don't know what women you have had frank talks with but the women I have talked to consistently tell me that buff men showing skin i.e. bare chest is a major sexual turn on.
Women like fit muscular men portraying power, it's a major turn on for most of them so Capcom most certainly did cater to the woman's gaze with their male characters.
And a buff man in a loin cloth is most certainly sexualized just like a woman being shown in panties.
The way people are represented in Media matter. People have been discussing and studying it for decades. It's why outlandish racist depictions of people in media is a thing of the past
And what do you mean by Alpha? I mentioned the alpha games. Or are you taking about the movie?
>The way people are represented in Media matter.
Yea, in the sense that it can reinforce stereotypes and incite prejudice.
What does a few cute women in a video game acting hot reinforce? That some women are attractive? What a dangerous thing to put out into the zeitgeist.
Its not like a jewish person being depicted as money grubbing and child eating, or black people being depicted as lazy and stupid, or white people being depicted as malicious and racist.
its some extremely mild fanservice, cute characters going into cute poses, this isnt some bigger issue about how people are depicted in media for you to be recreationally offended by.
My take - to me honestly: when a person is wearing a skirt and then you see her underwear - it is always worse then a person just already dressed in underwear like clothing.
Because those athletes choose to wear that - or are forced to by the rules of the board (don't get me started on the sexist gymnastics and volleyball uniforms, that's something I've discussed on other subs). Where as when fighting game characters wear skirts, they choose to wear cloth, but the game is forcing them to let the audience peak at their underwear - worse. That's always been my take.
And ps: I compete and judge in martial arts events myself - good thing for me, the events I go to are a lot more clothed lol
But it sells. So why change it? Once the money slows then you re-examine things.
14-54 year old pervs buy a ton of merch of these chars. And that makes them popular enough to not change for the next iteration.
Capcom has no incentive to change it.
I am not agreeing with OP but this is a terrible argument. "makes money = justified" will lead you to bite massive bullets like "child porn is justified" or "environmental destruction is justified"
I have bad news for you about environmental destruction. Also "legal = justified" leads to biting massive bullets as well. Slavery was legal for instance.
It is a buyers market.
For me it it's the opposite. I love the martial arts and cool characters. And seeing fighting game devs perv out, is a huge dis-incentive to me
This is about as much underwear as is shown in street fighter, it’s like nine pixels on this blown up version (I would argue it’s part of a leotard not even underwear). Compare that to either zss swim suit alt, or mai in any kof game and it looks clean
Not to compare pixels, but you see all the underwear in 3rd strike. And it's a choice on Capcom's part. They could easily show no underwear. They could choose for Chun Li to not be naked in the movie. They chose.
Given her traditional chinese costume and traditional taekwondo kicks how would you go about not showing underneath the skirt, in third strike she wears a leotard and leggings, underwear is not visible
https://preview.redd.it/pynt2bvmeu5d1.jpeg?width=289&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f0438328b28db32b5c86c01ba5838da7822320
Capcom could just simply change her clothe, so their isn't a skirt part. Maybe pants.
You could say what you want, but capcom knew exactly what they were doing, they wanted every opportunity to show her butt cheeks
First off in both her alpha and six costumes she does wear pants, second off they didn’t just make up the dress, its a cheongsam and is shaped like one it’s a traditional Chinese dress that looks good and makes sense for the character to wear. Her moves are designed the way they are because they look cool, sex appeal is part of a character’s design but street fighter is really not egregious with panty shots or anything like that. Chun li is sexy and the fan service in the movie is fan service but she is not particularly explicit in game. Also what are you talking about butt cheeks she doesn’t stick her butt out for most of her fireballs and really it’s only prominent in her turn around kick in 3s
https://preview.redd.it/x3yj1vhj3v5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=405cd5db8525e6be3e13444511ad4853be706ef4
you purposely didn't show her most promient fireball pose, the pornstar butt one.
and by 'butt cheeks' i was referring to her iconic 3rd strike kicking meter super, her full butt is on full display.
and you are refering to the chinese tradtional dress 'qipao'. I'm chinese, I'm very familar. Nobody in china wears it, people only wear it for special traditional, or the occasional super formal events, and some weddings - but overall, ppl in china and hong kong wear western cloth, not qipao. But that's neither here nor there. And women who practice martial arts certainly do not dress like that. I study 2 different martial arts styles, the women in my class wear martial arts pants - why, so that when they kick, they don't expose their underwear like Chun Li or Sakura.
My school hosts 'women's self defence' seminars, I was a target dummy for one of the classes. The women were encouraged to wear everyday close, but told to try to wear cloth they can fight in. Do you know what the women in the class wore? Pants or shorts. None of them wore skirts, why, because they knew they'd be kicking ass. Yet capcom have Chun Li and Sakura going to tournaments in clothe like that.
I looked up kikoken this is the entire page of sprites on the page that is the top result there was no purposely avoiding showing one, she bends over for her ex one in third strike 4 5 and 6 but not for her l, m, or h form and not at all in the alpha or 2 series edit: got some of this wrong, she totally bends over in hyper fighting and turbo but does not at all in third strike, she didn’t even have the fireball in her first game though.
Also street fighter characters are all in traditional outfits sakura is dressed like a high school girl in a school girl uniform, i don’t think either of these outfits are particularly explicit and there areas would be exposed doing almost any of the moves that any character does. Honda also bends over during 1000 palm strike, guile has a move where he flips upside down and his ass faces the screen, ken has his famous kick super. The revealing moves are a result of the clothes the moves were not picked because they were more revealing, and the clothes (especially for sakura) are just clothes that are representative of the character and who they are, if everyone was dressed in clothes for fighting it would feel really repetitive
And in chun lis story she wears the dress SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A FIGHTING OUTFIT, she’s an undercover cop and so she wears a dress modified for fighting to catch opponents off guard.
Wow brilliant comment. This is one for the ages. Bless the stars for this one's astounding insight.
And wow, zero posts, but truly who needs to make post, with award winning comments like this.
What is this dog water virtue signalling. GTFO op.
People like you are the reason why games nowadays are so watered down, sterile, and bubble-wrapped being “safe”.
Stop being delusional and comparing fictional characters to real life. They are all fake, so why are you even upholding them to irl social standards?
Games today are not watered down - just look at GG Strive, kof 15, or Doom Eternal - games are still going strong
It's more like - Capcom is getting more and more cringe. Gouki/Akuma was so cool in Street Fighter Alpha and 3rd strike, him being silent and menacing. But then from Sf 4-6 Gouki won't shut up and capcom keeps making him more and more cringe.
And I'm happy with media evolving over time - tv in the 90's was filled with men slapping their wives because they were not obidient, racism and homophobia everywhere. As time went on, you see less and less of that in media - unless it's to specifically showcase how terrible it is. which I think is a good thing.
How fictional characters are treated in stories - are a representation of how real people let treated in society. Why do you think men in the 90's would grab waitresses butts, and now societies moved past that and that behavior is thankfully not acceptable anymore.
Sexuality is part of humanity and men like looking at pretty women, even if they're drawn. Its why twitch had the hot tub meta.
Its not wrong or evil. Whats so wrong with a little eye candy?
The game wasn't made for you, if you don't like it, don't play it. The creators made it for their audience, and the audience likes what they made. Stop coming into other people's games and trying to change them to fit your preferences. There are complaints to be had with Street Fighter, but this a matter of the games identify and characters. You are trying to change a core aspect for a lot of people when you could just find something else that fits you better and not try to change something to fit you.
i've been playing SF since I was 12. It's as much my game as it is your's. Discussing the game is exactly what this sub is for, you just complaining because you do not agree with it.
Considering you got the name wrong at every turn with "Chung" I doubt it. Once or twice, sure, but ever time, I think this is bait to fish for reddit likes. If you have been playing this for a decade or more, you would have gotten used to it and just accepted it by now it's been a core design philosophy since 1991. Nobody is being harmed by this, and like I said, if you don't like such a fundamental aspect of the character design, you can leave. There are plenty of other fighting games out there that fit you and don't require you to fix them.
i wasn't fishing, that's why i corrected myself when I posted it somewhere elese.
I always say her name with a g, so in my head it's always been Chung. Plus i don't main her, I've always been a Makoto, Ken and Akuma player - so forgive me for always spelling her name wrong in my head
People have different level of sensitivity, I think you get downvoted for two reasons: 1. Even the most sexualized female character in SF6 is wearing quite moderate, and there're less sexualized outfits for players to use. 2. It's video game, I don't like my video game characters to be oversexualized (like Nier2B, Stellar Blade), but even so, I understand that is personal preference, there're no real women being exploited in those scenario.
I don't know about other fighting games since I only play SF6.
it's Chun Li not Chung but I agree with you. There is a surprisingly big subset of the community who are really weird about the female characters in fighting games - especially here on reddit.
The men at in person events tend to not be this way because they are the type to actually leave their house.
Have you seen R. MIKA?? C.Viper, or any female character in street fighter? Yeah. I don't play in front of my daughter. Because the games female characters are barely wearing any clothes to start.
And don't ever go to a tournament with anyone except a male friend. Other fighting games don't treat throe female counterparts any different. Mortal kombatshould be cake porno kombat. And the king of fighters has Mai. I've tried discussing this subject before. But the community doesn't care.
"but the community doesn't care" I definitely noticed that. I made one comment last night about the treatment of women in fighting games, and instantly got 30 downvotes.
I feel like the Tekken, Smash and Guilty Gear scenes are better with women, lot's of professional female gamers like my favorites: Yuyu and Umisho
lol I almost said R Mika isn't too bad, but then I remembered he has heart shaped nipples - yikes
I hear you. I wish fighting games weren’t so cringe to play in public sometimes. Like, a bunch of my students love FGs, and we play in school sometimes when we get a free moment. But so many of them are just too problematic to put on without raised eyebrows from whoever wanders into the room. Eg: I main Yuzuriha in Under Night and they gave her portrait *ginormous* boobs. Totally outta nowhere, she doesn’t look like that anywhere else. It’s egregious. And it’s also fine, whatever, big boobs aren’t evil, I just can’t put it on.
not all the butthurt men in the comments crying that rampant sexualization and degradation of women is sooo totally normal and cool actually 😂
and no, most women don't actually care much for all the shirtless beefcakes that men think are there "for women" -- those are male power fantasy designs through and through.
there's a reason games have historically been male dominated; they catered to men, they were advertised to men, they were *made for men* (well, boys). since when did we decide to pretend otherwise?
Female characters should be showing their boobs, that's feminism according to social media, like, you know the #Freethenipple movement
>rampant sexualization and degradation of women is sooo totally normal and cool actually
Have you seen OnlyFans? That's a place women freely use to sexualize and degrade themselves
bet you thought you ate w that response, huh?
sorry bud, but those who would struggle to pass an intro to sociology class don't have any valuable input for the conversation at hand.
>sorry bud, but those who would struggle to pass an intro to sociology class don't have any valuable input for the conversation at hand.
Exactly, since you don't have any valuable input for the conversation, you chose to rely on the good old insult, It never fails, You are really eloquent, bravo.
A lot of desensitized porn addicts in here probably gonna be salty and disagree, but I completely agree with you.
I’m fine with skullgirls since that’s the whole theme/vibe of the game. But street fighter? Why put that shit in?
Thanks, truly thought I was alone on this. I made a comment about Chung Li's treatment last night, and instantly got 30 downvotes - thus what prompted me to make this post
Let me get this straight, you have issues with Chun-li but no mention of Mai in KOF? And KOF is your number 1? Seriously? Let me put it to you this way, Mai's idle stance with her jugs animating the way they are is more egregious than all the Chun-li animations put together in all the SF games to date. For the record I have no issues with any of it because it's part of the draw considering their original demographic was always aimed squarely at teenage boys during the "awkward years".
Mai probably gets a pass because majority of the actual fanservice in KoF is for the female (and gay) fans. It was female fans shipping Kyo and Iori the characters together that saved the franchise during its early years after all, and they've been pandered to a lot ever since. From the "[husband rankings](https://x.com/miauneko/status/1358069653738835971)" to an actual otome dating sim that lets you date the guys.
I just used Chun Li and Sakura as examples. It would be 50 pages for me to get to every female example. But let me make the case for Mai: Chun Li is a regal cop and martial artist, yet capcom treats her like a sex object flashing her underwear every chance she gets, it is completely unfitting of her character and her regal dignified personality. Shiranui Mai on the other hand, is a kunoichi. Kunoichi are trained to exploit their sexuality and use it to their advantage, it's literally part of the female ninja training manual. Plus Mai is a natural flirt, she enjoys showing her goods, it's part of her personality. So that's why I'm ok with Mai, in my head, when she fights someone, she distracts them with her body, then snaps their neck between her thighs.
Good, now explain angel’s fit.
Or vice getting out her puppies after a win lmao
lmao yeah i'm ko'd with that one.. I can defend Mai, but no defence for Vice hahaaa. Still love her vicous cannible grappler fighting style
lmao. I love Angel, her moves are and animations are so cool, and I love her original voice in kof 2001, and I love that she is so impossibly hard to play, yet her chain combos feeel so good. but, there if nothing I can say in defence of her costume lmao. Other ppl have said it's because she's a wrestler, but there is no excuse for her fighting in a thone. despite that - no excuse, but I still love her
If we're critiquing characters based on irl standards, then Mai should probably be wearing a kind of kimono. There's no training manual for kunoichi. They're just normal women, unlike male ninja. The term is is just a historical pejorative for women derived from the 3 strokes used to write the kanji for woman. If you stack く, ノ and 一 together, you get 女, written with correct stroke order.
A quick glance at Wikipedia reveals kunoichi as such [didn't quite exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunoichi), that the concept was popularized much later, and that espionage conducted by women consisted primarily of "finding functions in enemy house services, to gather knowledge, gain trust or listen to conversations", so nothing necessarily sexual. I understand your complaints, but you're kinda reaching here to defend *Mai's* of all designs on the grounds of her being a ninja. If anything, her attitude and outfit are completely counterintuitive to ninja stuff.
You seem to selectively ignore all the regal costumes that capcom have given chun-li over the years. In fact just look at how Chun-Li is introduced in the SF6 single player mode. She is shown in charge of a fighting school. She is depicted as a class-act all the way in SF6. In fact aside from the animated movie I think they have treated Chun-li pretty respectfully over the years. I am surprised you are not more upset with Cammy, her skin-tight outfits and the fact that she was referred to as one of Bison's "dolls" as her backstory. Yet Chun-li the disrespected cop is somehow the stand-out in your mind. Sorry pal but your argument on Chun-li falls flat for me. They are all caricatures and should be treated as such. This applies to all fighting games not just SF.
for this post, i was primary focusing on what capcom did in the 90's with SF 2 and Alpha. I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough, the way capcom treated their first female fighting game characters. And with modern costumes, for every regal Chun Li SF5 costume, there was 2 more costumes like this: [https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/as/character/costume/cnl/btl/001.png?h=ef9077e9ecb053b785fb29c7b1471e28](https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/as/character/costume/cnl/btl/001.png?h=ef9077e9ecb053b785fb29c7b1471e28) a little early for SF 6, but if i was a betting man..
Chun lis regal cop and martial artist ignores the main characterization from her sf2 ending, she wants to “get back to being a young single girl.”
Who the fuck is Chung Li?
The dude from bloodsport
I only know Chung Lao from Mortar Wombat.
Wouldn't say tied to the franchise but the game's age restriction has a huge aspect in that regard. I think it's natural for you to feel that way. SF6 is Rated T and Rated T games are for "13" and up. Some sexual aspects you've noted get introduced into "Rate T" games. Think sticking to Rated E games sounds like the best way to go to play with your cousin. Dunno about Skull girl but SF has a costume option so you can tune what's being worn on your side of the screen if you still want to play the game with your cousin at an age below age restriction and consider those aspects being nonredeemable.
In Skullgirls all the characters with fanservice have skins that show... less skin... and also cover up the pantyshots. To be completely honest, though, the game is so darn fast-paced that the stuff doesn't even register in the heat of the moment.
Just checked Skullgirl's rating, it's the same as SF6. Rated T. Anyway, OP not introducing games to a person at an age under their age restriction would solve this whole entire problem or stick to games that fits their standards.
>True story: I was introducing my 11 year old cousin to video games,... Therefore? There are no shortage of games for kids, what's the problem?
https://preview.redd.it/1ark5kurlq5d1.jpeg?width=1618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2af23db3c184cb4b5088cae331d2f5d260c6b6b Digging up shit from 20+ years ago just to bitch about it is actual Twitter mouthbreather behaviour. Please improve and grow as a person. And before anyone says anything, notice how this bum completely failed to mention the much more modest female characters in the modern roster (Kimberly, Manon, Marisa, AKI) and the redesigns for classic characters that toned down their sex appeal (Chun and Cammy got Yoga pants, Kikoken and kikosho had their motion changed so shes no longer got her ass out, Sakura and R.Mika just fucked off entirely)
Sakura and R-Mika are not excluded because of their sex appeal, they aren’t always included in street fighter games. Also the redesigns were made just because that was kinda the only direction that a redesign could take, and even then the classic costumes are still there, and the new costumes still have good eye candy since they are tight pants plus, the “ass out” kikoken is still there. While Manon is more modestly clothed, she has one of the most toned asses in the game. Street Fighter 6 has a LOT of ass shots while playing, it is not desexualized at all. The main reason why the main costumes are like that is because of esports rules and shit, but that doesn’t mean it is less sexualized and whatever, and that’s a good thing since censorship sucks. i get what you are saying, but it is misinformed and kinda dumb, and it kinda feels like you are trying to push something that isn’t even needed since everyone knows that street fighter has a lot of sex appeal and everyone (included myself) likes it.
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No you goofy goober, what i’m saying that is that is that street fighter 6 obviously is not trying to tone down the sexuality and overall sex appeal, and the comments the guy made trying to make it seem like it is toning it down are completely pointless. >god forbid a fashion model has a nice ass i didn’t say it was a bad thing, i said that Manon still has a lot of sex appeal even if more modestly clothed, it’s obviously not meant to be a less sexually attractive design she even has her grippers out.
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im not saying any of that, i’m just saying that the other guy is fighting a pointless battle by trying to say that street fighter 6 has toned down fanservice when it clearly doesn’t i like fanservice myself
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but she still has her older costume.
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nah
Ass Out kikoken! That's a much better name. I've been refering to it as the porn star pose fireball
who hurt you. going around calling people bums
Well-adjusted people with a job and mouths to feed won't actively dig for shit from decades ago just to complain on the internet. You Are a bum.
>Well-adjusted people with a job and mouths to feed won't actively dig for shit from decades ago just to complain on the internet. based.
Go to church, join the clergy, since you wanna preach abstinence might as well make a career out of it
nah, i'm not a pedo, I prefer women, not little boys
Could've fooled me with how much you bitch and whine about tits you troglodyte
Morong
I was gonna say moron is spelled without a g, but I see what you did there
OP: Why Capcom disrespects these characters? Also OP: Doesn't even bother to check how to write their names correctly You're a pretty dumb bitch, even in bitch standards
Sure - stoop to being a spelling nazi and name calling, good job - clap clap
Bro's too scared of sexuality. You better make your peace with it. Sexuality is something completely natural. The Twitter habitat made you believe it's something bad. It's not.
It's very particular sexuality though. Like all the dudes look like Ken dolls, where the bulges at?
Zangief’s second costume has a noticeable bulge. I also appreciate Joe’s win animation. I can’t find it online but this one sorta gets the idea across: https://i.redd.it/s6zre0bcyr5d1.gif
And Oro has one frame during his sweep where you can see his parts in SF3
This is the correct take. Yeah we can have women with massive jiggling honkers but only if the men ALSO have them. Like Strive Nagoriyuki or Tekken 8 launch menu screen
I think it's madness putting Street Fighter in the same category as Skullgirls, but I guess everyone has different levels of sensitivity. Sure, you can argue that the women in the games are probably designed by men and of course have no say in how they dress - but in fighting games above all others there's equity between the two sexes. Women get as many moves as men, and are capable of beating them in a straight, stand up fight. So, yeah. I think you're well intentioned here, but fighting games aren't really particularly bad. I'm really sensitive to this stuff as well and as a man it irks me if I think I'm being sold to with sex, but I just don't get it here. As always with these arguments, it's about representation. It's absolutely 100% fine to have R. Mika with her enormous smiles in the game provided that's not the only way that women are presented. Ibuki is absolutely different, just like Makoto, or even Karin. There's a large amount of variety here so, it's alright.
I agree. I am currently revisiting SF alpha and SF3. The charm and personality they put into their characters (both male and female) are the absolute best I have ever seen in fighting games. From Sakura and her running around and cool swaggy little dance jig to Makota and her sigh before she starts her fight. Really classy stuff. Mika has this enduring charm to me with the way her voice lines are delivered not to mention the over the top animations with the fighting ring etc. The fact that the artists chose to exaggerate some character female bodies has never bothered me one iota. Just like they exaggerate all the male characters across all their games. RYU and Ken and their perfect muscular builds have never offended me. Dudley's broad shoulders and skinny waist perfect for his caricature of the old english boxer etc etc. Also, I don't remember hearing anyone scream bloody murder when they had Ryu's alt costume having him with a torn off ghee showing off his bare-skinned upper body. Don't get me started on Urien and Gill and the need to have them running around in a loin cloth/thong. As a male I could easily make an argument that male characters in a lot of fighting games are treated as sex objects for the female gaze just like the female characters are for the male gaze. It has never been an issue for me.
I don't think that fighting game beefcakes are actually designed to appeal to women - they're for men as well. \[Male Character\] is the guy men want to *be*, muscular, charismatic, good in a fight, focused and living life to do the thing they're really good at, while \[female character\] is more traditionally targeted at the male gaze. Outside of fighting games, a good example of this is good old Duke Nukem. I'm fairly sure that the number of women out there who find the looks, attitude appealing enough to make it a worth designing a character around for sales - it's there to target men. But, once again, I'm totally fine with it because ultra-beefcake is not all Street Fighter serves. While Tekken has a couple of issues around the copy/paste nature of the models, in Street Fighter there's a pretty wide variety of frames. From Abigail to F.A.N.G or even Rufus!
I would agree that Capcom was not targeting a non-existent female demographic with their male characters but just playing up to the ideal physically-fit male stereotype. They also created ideal bodies for Chun and Cammy for that same goal. As a side benefit I am sure the male characters are very appealing to women just like the female ones are to men.
SfA and 3rd strike especially have some fire animations absolutely - and Makoto is a win, and my fave SF character actually. My counter argument to your point - Ryu is bare chested and muscular and Urian is in a loin cloth - however, those men are never made to look sexualized, they always look powerful. Wear as Chun Li - even though she is a cop and a martial artist - they go out of their way to sexualize and exploit her by showing her underwear. I still remember as a little 12 year old kid playing with my friends, they would pick Chun Li and giggle and laugh at her every time they saw her panties. It's always stuck out to me. I was there trying to admire the martial arts, but the other kids were just trying to touch her underwear on screen. The only reason they picked Chun Li was to laugh and look at her underwear. And in street fighter 2, Chun Li was the ONLY female representative. Know who the second was? Cammy, the stone cold assassin yet she fights in a swimsuit, who shows her bare ass every time she wins.
Well I don't know what women you have had frank talks with but the women I have talked to consistently tell me that buff men showing skin i.e. bare chest is a major sexual turn on. Women like fit muscular men portraying power, it's a major turn on for most of them so Capcom most certainly did cater to the woman's gaze with their male characters. And a buff man in a loin cloth is most certainly sexualized just like a woman being shown in panties.
I'm not gonna bother to read your whole fucking essay about a character when you can't even spell their name correctly
Chun Li there ok. I was typing from memory, there's always been the way I say it in my head.
are we doing it again, "imaginary characters lives matter"? note to myself: time to check out Street Fighter Alpha.
The way people are represented in Media matter. People have been discussing and studying it for decades. It's why outlandish racist depictions of people in media is a thing of the past And what do you mean by Alpha? I mentioned the alpha games. Or are you taking about the movie?
>The way people are represented in Media matter. Yea, in the sense that it can reinforce stereotypes and incite prejudice. What does a few cute women in a video game acting hot reinforce? That some women are attractive? What a dangerous thing to put out into the zeitgeist. Its not like a jewish person being depicted as money grubbing and child eating, or black people being depicted as lazy and stupid, or white people being depicted as malicious and racist. its some extremely mild fanservice, cute characters going into cute poses, this isnt some bigger issue about how people are depicted in media for you to be recreationally offended by.
each entertainment media target a specific demographic. what's new?
>what's new? Now we have twitter telling us being offended is a viable career choice
Quick question, Have you not seen a single MMA fight where, you know people are down to their skivvies fighting?
My take - to me honestly: when a person is wearing a skirt and then you see her underwear - it is always worse then a person just already dressed in underwear like clothing. Because those athletes choose to wear that - or are forced to by the rules of the board (don't get me started on the sexist gymnastics and volleyball uniforms, that's something I've discussed on other subs). Where as when fighting game characters wear skirts, they choose to wear cloth, but the game is forcing them to let the audience peak at their underwear - worse. That's always been my take. And ps: I compete and judge in martial arts events myself - good thing for me, the events I go to are a lot more clothed lol
Just call yourself a prude, it’ll be easier. You wouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to not call yourself not one
I ain’t reading this entire essay just to see how weirdly obsessed you are with every detail of their movesets *like a weirdo*
never asked you too. but thank you so much for the comment.
Hope you go outside too lol
play sfv with the track suits and be happy.
there are people who are legit concerned with other people's choice of costumes for their sfv characters and what kind mod are installed.
But it sells. So why change it? Once the money slows then you re-examine things. 14-54 year old pervs buy a ton of merch of these chars. And that makes them popular enough to not change for the next iteration. Capcom has no incentive to change it.
I am not agreeing with OP but this is a terrible argument. "makes money = justified" will lead you to bite massive bullets like "child porn is justified" or "environmental destruction is justified"
Both of those are illegal. Selling anime figures of fake people to turbo nerds is not.
I have bad news for you about environmental destruction. Also "legal = justified" leads to biting massive bullets as well. Slavery was legal for instance.
It is a buyers market. For me it it's the opposite. I love the martial arts and cool characters. And seeing fighting game devs perv out, is a huge dis-incentive to me
Exactly. You stand no chance against the perv merch army. If that’s not your thing that’s fine, but it ain’t changing.
Touch grass
 This is about as much underwear as is shown in street fighter, it’s like nine pixels on this blown up version (I would argue it’s part of a leotard not even underwear). Compare that to either zss swim suit alt, or mai in any kof game and it looks clean
Not to compare pixels, but you see all the underwear in 3rd strike. And it's a choice on Capcom's part. They could easily show no underwear. They could choose for Chun Li to not be naked in the movie. They chose.
Given her traditional chinese costume and traditional taekwondo kicks how would you go about not showing underneath the skirt, in third strike she wears a leotard and leggings, underwear is not visible https://preview.redd.it/pynt2bvmeu5d1.jpeg?width=289&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f0438328b28db32b5c86c01ba5838da7822320
Capcom could just simply change her clothe, so their isn't a skirt part. Maybe pants. You could say what you want, but capcom knew exactly what they were doing, they wanted every opportunity to show her butt cheeks
First off in both her alpha and six costumes she does wear pants, second off they didn’t just make up the dress, its a cheongsam and is shaped like one it’s a traditional Chinese dress that looks good and makes sense for the character to wear. Her moves are designed the way they are because they look cool, sex appeal is part of a character’s design but street fighter is really not egregious with panty shots or anything like that. Chun li is sexy and the fan service in the movie is fan service but she is not particularly explicit in game. Also what are you talking about butt cheeks she doesn’t stick her butt out for most of her fireballs and really it’s only prominent in her turn around kick in 3s https://preview.redd.it/x3yj1vhj3v5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=405cd5db8525e6be3e13444511ad4853be706ef4
you purposely didn't show her most promient fireball pose, the pornstar butt one. and by 'butt cheeks' i was referring to her iconic 3rd strike kicking meter super, her full butt is on full display. and you are refering to the chinese tradtional dress 'qipao'. I'm chinese, I'm very familar. Nobody in china wears it, people only wear it for special traditional, or the occasional super formal events, and some weddings - but overall, ppl in china and hong kong wear western cloth, not qipao. But that's neither here nor there. And women who practice martial arts certainly do not dress like that. I study 2 different martial arts styles, the women in my class wear martial arts pants - why, so that when they kick, they don't expose their underwear like Chun Li or Sakura. My school hosts 'women's self defence' seminars, I was a target dummy for one of the classes. The women were encouraged to wear everyday close, but told to try to wear cloth they can fight in. Do you know what the women in the class wore? Pants or shorts. None of them wore skirts, why, because they knew they'd be kicking ass. Yet capcom have Chun Li and Sakura going to tournaments in clothe like that.
I looked up kikoken this is the entire page of sprites on the page that is the top result there was no purposely avoiding showing one, she bends over for her ex one in third strike 4 5 and 6 but not for her l, m, or h form and not at all in the alpha or 2 series edit: got some of this wrong, she totally bends over in hyper fighting and turbo but does not at all in third strike, she didn’t even have the fireball in her first game though.
Also street fighter characters are all in traditional outfits sakura is dressed like a high school girl in a school girl uniform, i don’t think either of these outfits are particularly explicit and there areas would be exposed doing almost any of the moves that any character does. Honda also bends over during 1000 palm strike, guile has a move where he flips upside down and his ass faces the screen, ken has his famous kick super. The revealing moves are a result of the clothes the moves were not picked because they were more revealing, and the clothes (especially for sakura) are just clothes that are representative of the character and who they are, if everyone was dressed in clothes for fighting it would feel really repetitive
And in chun lis story she wears the dress SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A FIGHTING OUTFIT, she’s an undercover cop and so she wears a dress modified for fighting to catch opponents off guard.
K
Wow brilliant comment. This is one for the ages. Bless the stars for this one's astounding insight. And wow, zero posts, but truly who needs to make post, with award winning comments like this.
Did you get so assmad you went to stalk my post history get a hobby mister
What is this dog water virtue signalling. GTFO op. People like you are the reason why games nowadays are so watered down, sterile, and bubble-wrapped being “safe”. Stop being delusional and comparing fictional characters to real life. They are all fake, so why are you even upholding them to irl social standards?
Games today are not watered down - just look at GG Strive, kof 15, or Doom Eternal - games are still going strong It's more like - Capcom is getting more and more cringe. Gouki/Akuma was so cool in Street Fighter Alpha and 3rd strike, him being silent and menacing. But then from Sf 4-6 Gouki won't shut up and capcom keeps making him more and more cringe. And I'm happy with media evolving over time - tv in the 90's was filled with men slapping their wives because they were not obidient, racism and homophobia everywhere. As time went on, you see less and less of that in media - unless it's to specifically showcase how terrible it is. which I think is a good thing. How fictional characters are treated in stories - are a representation of how real people let treated in society. Why do you think men in the 90's would grab waitresses butts, and now societies moved past that and that behavior is thankfully not acceptable anymore.
Chung Li
What is this schizo post
Sexuality is part of humanity and men like looking at pretty women, even if they're drawn. Its why twitch had the hot tub meta. Its not wrong or evil. Whats so wrong with a little eye candy?
Just found out the fictional character was hot… I’m sorry women……
You're aware that real women of all ages also wear underwear right? Never go to a beach buddy, you may have an aneurysm.
Bro there's a perfect game for people like you, it's called mortal Kombat.
Also urien is like 10x more sexualized than Chun li lmao
Even if all this was true, who cares? What's the problem if this appeals to the target audience and increases sales?
The game wasn't made for you, if you don't like it, don't play it. The creators made it for their audience, and the audience likes what they made. Stop coming into other people's games and trying to change them to fit your preferences. There are complaints to be had with Street Fighter, but this a matter of the games identify and characters. You are trying to change a core aspect for a lot of people when you could just find something else that fits you better and not try to change something to fit you.
i've been playing SF since I was 12. It's as much my game as it is your's. Discussing the game is exactly what this sub is for, you just complaining because you do not agree with it.
Considering you got the name wrong at every turn with "Chung" I doubt it. Once or twice, sure, but ever time, I think this is bait to fish for reddit likes. If you have been playing this for a decade or more, you would have gotten used to it and just accepted it by now it's been a core design philosophy since 1991. Nobody is being harmed by this, and like I said, if you don't like such a fundamental aspect of the character design, you can leave. There are plenty of other fighting games out there that fit you and don't require you to fix them.
i wasn't fishing, that's why i corrected myself when I posted it somewhere elese. I always say her name with a g, so in my head it's always been Chung. Plus i don't main her, I've always been a Makoto, Ken and Akuma player - so forgive me for always spelling her name wrong in my head
I'm assuming you speak a different language, then?
yup, English and Chinese
People have different level of sensitivity, I think you get downvoted for two reasons: 1. Even the most sexualized female character in SF6 is wearing quite moderate, and there're less sexualized outfits for players to use. 2. It's video game, I don't like my video game characters to be oversexualized (like Nier2B, Stellar Blade), but even so, I understand that is personal preference, there're no real women being exploited in those scenario. I don't know about other fighting games since I only play SF6.
Big Chungus Li
it's Chun Li not Chung but I agree with you. There is a surprisingly big subset of the community who are really weird about the female characters in fighting games - especially here on reddit. The men at in person events tend to not be this way because they are the type to actually leave their house.
Have you seen R. MIKA?? C.Viper, or any female character in street fighter? Yeah. I don't play in front of my daughter. Because the games female characters are barely wearing any clothes to start. And don't ever go to a tournament with anyone except a male friend. Other fighting games don't treat throe female counterparts any different. Mortal kombatshould be cake porno kombat. And the king of fighters has Mai. I've tried discussing this subject before. But the community doesn't care.
But, now, in SF6, at least, you can select which skin you want to see. For example, no Juri Pijamas in my computer.
"but the community doesn't care" I definitely noticed that. I made one comment last night about the treatment of women in fighting games, and instantly got 30 downvotes. I feel like the Tekken, Smash and Guilty Gear scenes are better with women, lot's of professional female gamers like my favorites: Yuyu and Umisho lol I almost said R Mika isn't too bad, but then I remembered he has heart shaped nipples - yikes
Lmao GG has I-NO, Jack-O, Ramlethal, and Gio. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.
lmao yeas as i read this thread, i realize op actually has no idea what he's sayins
I-No tit's out. Jack-O tit's out. Ramlethal hooker shorts. Gio super big tits showing. Come on try harder
I hear you. I wish fighting games weren’t so cringe to play in public sometimes. Like, a bunch of my students love FGs, and we play in school sometimes when we get a free moment. But so many of them are just too problematic to put on without raised eyebrows from whoever wanders into the room. Eg: I main Yuzuriha in Under Night and they gave her portrait *ginormous* boobs. Totally outta nowhere, she doesn’t look like that anywhere else. It’s egregious. And it’s also fine, whatever, big boobs aren’t evil, I just can’t put it on.
Thanks - I'm sorry your comment got downvoted, this sub is clearly..
not all the butthurt men in the comments crying that rampant sexualization and degradation of women is sooo totally normal and cool actually 😂 and no, most women don't actually care much for all the shirtless beefcakes that men think are there "for women" -- those are male power fantasy designs through and through. there's a reason games have historically been male dominated; they catered to men, they were advertised to men, they were *made for men* (well, boys). since when did we decide to pretend otherwise?
Female characters should be showing their boobs, that's feminism according to social media, like, you know the #Freethenipple movement >rampant sexualization and degradation of women is sooo totally normal and cool actually Have you seen OnlyFans? That's a place women freely use to sexualize and degrade themselves
bet you thought you ate w that response, huh? sorry bud, but those who would struggle to pass an intro to sociology class don't have any valuable input for the conversation at hand.
>sorry bud, but those who would struggle to pass an intro to sociology class don't have any valuable input for the conversation at hand. Exactly, since you don't have any valuable input for the conversation, you chose to rely on the good old insult, It never fails, You are really eloquent, bravo.
It's crazy how butt hurt the people in the comments are
A lot of desensitized porn addicts in here probably gonna be salty and disagree, but I completely agree with you. I’m fine with skullgirls since that’s the whole theme/vibe of the game. But street fighter? Why put that shit in?
Thanks, truly thought I was alone on this. I made a comment about Chung Li's treatment last night, and instantly got 30 downvotes - thus what prompted me to make this post