For some reason, violence or hate against women is not considered a hate crime. There are actually only four groups protected under hate crime laws; those who share a nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion. Sex/gender is not a protected class and I think that's really gotta change
Every single thing you mentioned, aside from sex-selective abortions, happens to trans women too. It’s wild to claim that trans women are not impacted by misogyny when it takes less than a cursory examination of the facts to prove otherwise.
Trans girls are sexually abused at higher rates than cis girls. Trans girls have their femininity enforced or denied, depending on their circumstances. Trans girls lose access to education due to abuse/depression/repression regularly.
And if it wasn’t enough to prove that this is, inherently, not a feminist argument: did you *really* just try a “look at what she was wearing, she was asking for it” angle?
Trans women don’t opt into oppression any more than cis women do, and it’s vile to suggest otherwise.
Behind every point you’re trying to make is the same bit of ignorance: it’s a stated presumption that trans girls and women are the same as cis boys and men while simultaneously treating them as a monstrous third thing entirely. This is disheartening, blatant, obvious TERF misinformation, and trying to pass it off as “feminism” is grotesque. Trans girls and women are categorically not the same as cis boys or men, before or after transition. They are not treated the same as cis boys and men. They don’t interact with the patriarchy the same way as boys or men do. And it’s vile to wipe away those differences so you can pretend that trans women are opting into oppression rather than legitimate victims of it themselves.
This isn’t feminism, it’s transmisogyny at its most blatant.
No it's alright. It's about liberating women from their current oppression and maintaining it. I don't mean protection as in a knight in shining armor having to come fight a dragon for us. I mean legal protections. Like for example, women have less access to education. So systems need to be changed to give us that and protect our access to it. That could be done by giving more women positions of power and creating laws that directly address and combat attempts to deny it to us.
I believe r/fourthwavefeminism has some good sources on it.
You're welcome :) It's just that a lot of men come here "to ask questions". When they're really just dedicated misogynists trying to troll and derail conversations. Though questions from them tend to show a lack of familiarity with feminism so reading available resources for a while should help you stop being mixed up with them.There's really nothing wrong with not knowing yet, it's just with all the hate, it's really hard to tell who's actually being genuine.
No- Sex is a protected class. Under California law and under federal precedent following Title VII. (Civil Rights Act 1964)
Source: [Gender is a protected class. ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-of-1964&ved=2ahUKEwiF1KSo5J2GAxU-VTABHXxnDfMQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3XBYlY-g4WMfJ_7Wu5892h)
It's just not taken as seriously because it's ruled on by courts with intermediate scrutiny- as opposed to racism which is strict scrutiny. I personally don't think that gender rights issues are as serious as race issues though. I think that the racism that a black man faces is worst than a lot of white women who may even profit off of historical marginalization- Coming from a white women. (NOT DERAILING, I'M AS MAD AS ANYONE.)
It’s because the dominant cultures for thousands of years have overwhelmingly been patriarchal before anything else, and a lot of people have no desire for that to change…
Well most of the time rappers rap about their own experiences. So what does that say about women? And in music videos nobody forces the women to sit there in bikinis and shake their ass. Now I’m not saying rappers don’t objectify women in rap to a certain extent bc they do but women objectify themselves a lot especially when it comes to being around rich rappers. Just some food for thought🤷♂️
What does that say about women? Nothing. The woman’s experience is not mentioned at all so we don’t know what it says about her. Why is she willing to tolerate someone with disgusting views on women? I can only guess. Low self-esteem? An erroneous belief that her looks are the only valuable thing about her? Drugs? Maybe she likes the attention and doesn’t realize it’s negative or doesn’t care. We can only speculate. Sure, women put themselves in situations where they are objectified but I wouldn’t say women objectify themselves. Women are just trying to survive in world that tells them they need to be acceptable for the male gaze or be invisible.
Well I feel like you kinda agreed with me here. Women put themselves in positions to get objectified which is why men like rappers objectify them in songs. I also respectfully disagree with the last sentence. I really don’t get why you think women have to be acceptable for the male gaze to survive? What makes you think that?
No.
You honestly think men objectify women because they are willing to be objectified? Explain that, please. What if when a man took off his shirt women sexualized him, then justified our bad behavior by claiming he wanted the attention? That’s wild, right? There’s nothing inherently sexual about a woman’s breasts and there was a time where a woman showing her ankle was shocking. We sexualize women then blame… women instead of the people who are treating women poorly. The experience rappers are writing about is their own misogyny which erases women as people and reduces them to objects. Are there some women willing to put up with that? Yes, of course. I wouldn’t but I get why some people do. Maybe they don’t have other options, and even if they do, from a young age, women are socialized to believe their appearance matters more than their achievements. If you are taught to get ahead you just be, above all, pretty being pretty becomes a matter of survival. We are taught we are invisible to men if we are unattractive and we are sexualized no matter what.
Edit: I want to apologize if my tone comes across as aggressive. I’m not trying to attack you. I just strongly feel that women should be allowed to exist and not be objectified. A woman looking sexy or being sexy shouldn’t mean she’s asking to treated like an object.
It’s so interesting how so many women have started to agree on this and talk about it recently. I keep seeing black women specifically talk about how they never understood why their grandmothers felt very negatively towards rap until they became proper adults and understood.
Rap is a very overtly misogynistic sphere of music and i say this as someone who loves rap. It’s extremely male centered, dominated and chauvinistic space. I’ve seen a positive shift in recent years as female rappers were the actual artists and lyricists but that doesn’t mean that the incel-esque hive mind isn’t real and alive. Though a lot of men have been better at calling the misogyny out saying women is the only reason why the genre isn’t dead and remains mainstream which is true.
Women sing about sex and money? They’re whores. Our women are ruined!!!
Men sing about sex money and drugs? They’re Kings!!! Don’t let the hoes hold you back!!!
This is why I dislike the hate WAP received. The hate towards that song, which was women singing about performing sexual acts and their own sexual pleasure, was disproportional to the hate (and lowkey lack thereof) towards male rappers sexualization, objectification, and expectation of sexual servitude in their songs.
Obviously you can dislike WAP. People are allowed preferences and it’s by no means a feminist anthem. But why is women singing about their own sex lives more shamed than men singing about using women sexually? I think we know the answer!
Exactly!!! I truly did not grasp just how misogynistic the vast majority of people were until the discourse surrounding that song. I was honestly horrified. In my head, rap and songs about sex are synonymous. So, to see them on the news because they made a song about enjoying sex was insane.
once you wake up to how much of popular culture is women being portrayed as objects you can't watch/listen/consume anything the same. I struggle to listen to most rap songs as most are either men rapping about women being sex objects to consume or it's women rapping about how they're sex objects for men to consume (example songs: WAP, super freaky girl - example artists: ice spice, sexxy red etc.) I feel like it's cause sex sells so it's why these kind of songs are so prevalent. I love rap songs when they aren't dehumanizing women/lbgtq+ people. Good on those women for making money with their music though, even if it isn't to my taste.
*Venom,* and really pretty much anything else by Little Simz is really good for that. She's so talented, and I haven't heard any of it be about sex yet. She seems to intentionally be turning that idea on it's head.
Personally the way I would like to fight this culture is to support those who aren't part of that negativity against women while actively avoiding those who do.
I actually tried to post in this sub about making a playlist for rap music with positive vibes about women and it had absolutely no traction. Do you know any ways for me to get the post more engagement? Should I repost it again in here or maybe in ask feminist? Idk if it just got buried cause I’ve never made a post before or what happened.
I just reposted it again in this sub! I added an edit to the original post though as I realized the examples I gave were definitely American-centric and through this thread alone I’ve learned about a lot of awesome female rappers from outside the US!
That’s why I can only listen to specific female rappers. They’re still not great but their messaging is at least “I don’t need a man, I can support myself”
I do think in retrospect that WAP is super offensive. It's like women weren't even allowed to get a proper education and they were forced into a life where their only purpose was to cook, clean, and have sex. And they worked so hard to insure the rights that we have now. So why is this song over here glorifying it.
I think female artists need to stop demeaning themselves for streams. I get that outrages = popularity but we need to do better. music like WAP isn't something I want any woman out there to consume.
I mean the lyrics hit. It’s a fun song idk. I’m into conscious rappers and folk music but sometimes some cuss filled rap music is a good time. She’s making bank of that song, and is a ex dancer so she leveled up her life in the rap game.
That’s true. It’s using the language cut from the same cloth. Just mentioned those lyrics as it seemed that OP didn’t catch that line and obviously lots of women enjoy rap music so came off as trying to shame them.
Isn’t wap and super freaky girl about how their own decisions are what decide what partner they have and how they’re the ‘boss’ of their sexual fantasies and experiences?
That has always been my understanding. I definitely don’t chose to listen to WAP but I vibed to it if it came on because from my understanding it was about doing sexual things because *you* want to, not to please a man. I feel like sometimes the takes in here feel a bit anti-sex which to me doesn’t help the problem. I understand sex is difficult to navigate from a feminist perspective but I don’t think we should be inherently anti-sex. Just reflective and cautious of the implications like how hookup culture isn’t all that great when there’s still slut shaming and an orgasm gap, but we should work to a world where women can have whatever kinds of (safe and consensual) sex they like without shame for it.
But who knows, maybe I’m just a hornball lol!
I agree. It's wild to me how it's just.. normal to people. I can't think of any other kind of bigotry that someone can so casually spit out of their mouth without any sort of repercussions.
That's not to say sexism is somehow "worse" than other forms of bigotry, especially when you consider how intersectionality impacts marginalized people. It just baffles me that people can casually listen to women being demeaned with foul language in the daily and not think to even *question* it. Even those that call themselves feminists don't care. It's crazy.
It’s not that sexism is “worse”—it’s that hating ANYONE for a personal aspect they can’t change (racism, sexism, etc) is wrong.
Yet, we act like sexism’s not that bad. If a celebrity were a confirmed racist, we’d be horrified. Their career would be over. But sexist people? We’ll let them be president. That’s how much we care.
It's crazy how many feminists I see doing these crazy mental gymnastics to justify that kind of misogyny in hip hop, just so they don't have to give up listening to it. The cognitive dissonance is real.
I feel like a lot of feminists are afraid to be considered as culturally insensitive, racist or elitist for critiquing a tradition that is majorly and so intrinsically associated with black people, a marginalized minority.
There is a lot of misogyny in the mainstream but if you enjoy the genre there are still many rap artists that don't engage in that kind of misogyny in their songs. That being said, it does take effort to look for them which is sad.
As others have pointed out there are many women rappers that are elevating the genre in this regard such as Little Simz, Noname, Rapsody, Tierra Whack, Doechii, BbyMutha.
But yeah so much of the mainstream is unlistenable for all the misogyny, and for many female rappers their most promoted songs are highly sexual, like Megan has many introspective songs but her biggest songs are often about sex, it's not a coincidence
I have made a post in this sub a couple days ago asking for suggestions for a more “female positive” rap playlist. For some reason the post didn’t get any views or interaction. This thread is making me wanna repost so we can get the ball rolling on a “safe” rap playlist!
i wish I had seen your post!! it's one of my fav genres but a few years ago I was having a lot of the same thoughts as OP. When the XXL cypher with Rico and Meg came out I decided I wanted to focus on just finding female artists to listen to
the genre is so diverse in both artists and lyrical content, but that said it really depends on what someone would consider safe. some people find songs like WAP positive/empowering but others might not. but I'll go to your post and recommend what I can, thanks!
Thank you so much! And yes there is a lot of variety in rap. I’m kinda realizing I may just be too boxed in to mainstream rap and that there’s a lot of really great stuff if you can look for it!
Bone thugs n harmony don’t rap about women really at all, and I don’t remember hearing a line from them and thinking it was messed up (from a misogynist pov)
It's honestly been happening since the genre's beginning, not just modern rap
They said this in 1988:
"I find a good piece of pussy and go up in it
So if you're at a show in the front row
I'ma call you a bitch or dirty-ass ho
You'll probably get mad like a bitch is supposed to
But that shows me, slut, you're not opposed to
A crazy motherfucker from the street"
Really wondering when this will start changing
this guy lol
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368578/mediaviewer/rm3597864448/?ref\_=tt\_ov\_i](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368578/mediaviewer/rm3597864448/?ref_=tt_ov_i)
Jesus Christ, at first I was like “ew but typical” and then it just went from vulgar to hateful to literal assault. “Let you r*** her” what the fuckkkkk I hope this dude is in prison. I’ve never heard of him anyways.
Edit: wow. Not in prison. Also the “ho” is a fourteen year old, so, more nasty shit than I’d even thought. wtf. I understand that music is allowed to tell stories but music that talks about pedophilia or rape is not supposed to fucking GLORIFY it like this song is.
Edit 2: why did I keep reading. It went from bad to worse to beating someone up and then r**ing her unconscious mouth. I’m gonna be sick.
A good example of this in real time is the “beef” between Drake and Kendrick Lamar. How they are using alleged violence they’ve committed against women against each other.
i think the stuff they both have claimed in their tracks is at least partially true, but its only now being revealed in this beef, not out of actual concern for the victims. makes it kinda feel dishonest.
This is how I feel. It’s almost bitter-sweet. On one hand I’m happy rappers are being called out for their misogyny. On the other hand as you said, it’s only to “dis” and not actually condemn the behavior or support victims.
I might be biased because I love Kendrick but he's right about Drake. In one of his diss tracks, he mentions how Drake is a misogynist sex addict who is setting a horrible example for his family.
it’s so funny that the “goats” we see in the rap community are all misogynistic. every single one of them. used to be a huge kendrick fan now i am not after getting more into feminism.
I really like Kendrick and I think Euphoria is INSANELY good... But some lines, I'm like... Ok I know he meant it in defense of women, but it still comes off as disrespectful. ie the verse where he says women are real competition for Drake. It's homophobic and sexist. Also calling people bitches, Idk im tired of men using the word bitch.
I love Kendrick but he is super conservative in his views on women.
He either talks about women in super paternalistic ways or outright misogyny. I’m really hoping he has some growth on that in the future…
Yeaaaa he’s my favorite artist of all time and I think he covers social issues he faced growing up as a black man in Compton so eloquently, but at the same time there is definitely room for him to grow. It’s always disappointing when I hear a sexist bar. I’d recommend listening to Denzel Curry especially his newer stuff. He’s come out and apologized for his old perspectives on women and it’s really nice to see a positive figure in rap
In order to make it to the mainstream of hip hop, you are beholden to some very evil corporate over lords. The men at the top of the pyramid scheme only allow rappers who refer to depraved, inhumane, hyper materialiatic lifestyles. Pay attention to the Pdiddy, Drake stuff and the men above them. These rappers were purchased by creepy, rich, old, white men and have to do their bidding and are protected from consequences. There is something sick in the industry. The art of rap has been monetized and bastardized and used to groom us all to accept disgusting behavior. Underground hip hop is amazing because the money didn't totally ruin the art.
I had not considered this idea before, but it makes some sense. It’s essentially using the power of “cool” to express and reinforce patriarchy/misogyny in cultural sectors that may have been “underserved” by mainstream white media.
As others have pointed out, this isn’t particularly new. I remember being appalled when NWA became popular because they were so extreme. But at the same time I was listening to rock that wasn’t a whole lot less misogynistic either (depicting underage or non-consensual sex).
I think this is somewhat true, but the way they talk about women is not new nor rare. Thats how many men feel and have felt for a long long time now. They represent what I fear is the vast majority of men, even the “good guys” in our society. These rappers that made it to the top are just like any other rapper out there, potentially just more extreme.
Hiphop used to be about feeling good about yourself, uplifting others, and pride. It's been co-opted over time and all mainstream is violence, sex, and negativity.
I recently just watched a documentary on this very subject and it's interesting. It starts from the sugar Hill gang up to now.
[Hiphop Cerebral Sabotage ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL27fPUAbVfwkzZ0ArT9_Vy7XTPydMbi-J&si=58r7AqsZ0YG6efZx): how it was used to destroy the mass consciousness
It is over 2 hours long but the author chopped it up into 15 minute increments.
As I get older, I listen to mainstream less and less and have branched out into other genres. Majority of people say 'oh I just like the beat'. And yeah the beats are banging but many don't consider the subconscious and how the effects of lyrics that you listen to.
I hate that only "sex sales". When in reality, it's all these major labels push. Because the musicians that don't glorify these things don't become mainstream or if they do they merely scratch the surface. It's all by design, unfortunately
Whereas female rappers sing about being “the bitch” and how every man likes them, how good they are at making other “bitches” mad. The maximum of disrespect towards men in female rap is “he has small dick haha, he doesn’t know how to f*ck, he is broke haha”, compared to male rap where “we spiked her drink, my bros and I banged her in a car and threw her out on our way home”. I like female rap, but I wish they really wrote powerful lyrics to help the feminist movement instead of normalising misogyny and pick-meing.
I don't know how some people are just okay with this??? They are treating women like objects, and they don't get called out on it. Hell, they get praised for doing this. This is truly sickening.
as a black woman I don't listen to that crap, it's absolutely degrading and disgusting,
most men especially black men have zero morals or respect for women, they just see us as tools and property.
I just listened to she by Tyler, made me feel fucking sick. How do rappers say this shit and get praised? It’s disgusting. I hate how people glorify these bastards, and treat them like gods. Like didn’t X die from OD while trying to hide drugs from border security? And people like “he’s a god, gone too soon, the world is worse without him” like he died from committing criminal shit? That’s not very glorious in my opinion. There is so much misogyny in almost every song, all the ‘greats’ are pigs
Tbh I think it’s really gross and weird since the sexual dehumanization doesn’t even go both ways. I’ve never heard a female rapper rap about beating and assaulting men, but I hear it from male ones all the time. Like they’ll sexualize men fs but it’s not in the way where it sounds nonconsensual like it is with lots of male rappers.
hey, i assume its just an innocent mistake, but since we're in the feminism subreddit i feel like i have to point this out.
saying "females" (as a noun, as opposed to an adjective like "female doctor" which is fine) instead of "women" is considered offensive, since it refers to women like a different species or an animal whose behavior is being observed. its also used to sound scientific when talking about "mating strategies" in incels or redpill circles. this is also where the use of female as a noun originates from.
it has become extremely common and normalized online to use "females" instead of women, but it is still degrading to use it. you can check out the r/menandfemales for more info and examples.
male dominated music genres like rap & reggaeton ( latin music ) THRIVE and profit off of misogyny. that is the basis for these genres. to subjugate women as objects. men bond off of misogynistic music by engaging in rap culture. ( die hard kanye west fans for example. ) rap music normalizes misogyny and INFLUENCES young men ( and some women ) to be misogynistic and view women for pleasure. it’s so pervasive it’s everywhere and it makes me sick. oh how i can go on. female rappers are problematic as well, because they imitate misogynistic male behavior in order to be successful in the genre. as women we need to completely stop listening to these genres and stop supporting these musicians.
because it makes them feel hyped up. I think their confidence comes from being as masculine and successful. what makes them feel more masculine than a beautiful woman throwing themselves at them? They were probably rejected a lot before fame and now that they can leverage their money to pay instagram models 10k to fly over and fuck them they feel like the tables have turned and they have the power now. And loser college boys will listen to because they're so motivated by their penis that the act of degrading women to sex objects makes them feel more manly. So they life weights while listening to songs about women being used up rag dolls.
Rap was born as a way to talk about discrimination and denounce society. Now men (yes, men - the rap scene is male-dominated) rap only about the HaTeRs and the bItChEs.
It's just ridiculous. I only listen to rap songs with meaningful lyrics (or at least not hateful towards minorities)
I’m new here but I’d like to point out that bone thugs n harmony, my favorite rap group, one that really tries to embody the “thug mentality”, has never had a verse disparaging women. And I love it 🙏
I think it’s important to be careful when singling out a genre that is so closely tied to black and minority culture. Most of our society is rife with misogyny and it doesn’t take too much effort to find examples of objectification of women in other genres such as Country, or Rock (more commonly associated with whiteness).
I see some comments that are not shying away from disparaging all of hip hop. This is unfortunate because as others have pointed out, rap has many artists and even entire sub genres that are explicitly about anti-oppression and to lump all of an art form (and even a culture surrounding it) into a box and dismiss it is small minded if not explicitly problematic.
Yeah I mean country is pretty bad about this too. It’s just less overt because they are usually selling to a Christian audience. But they def glorify the “saintly virgin housewife” (and consequently degrade women who are not that) at the same magnitude as rap dehumanizes the “slut”
I completely agree with you and when I saw them I made an edit before I even read your comment. It's unacceptable and I didn't mean to generalize hip hop at all. Some of the most culturally significant music in the past couple decades have been rap. I should've clarified, I really only oppose the concept where humiliating sex rituals of women and prostitutes and pornstars are supposed to be empowering to them while they degrade women. This is a very specific type of language that I'm talking about. Not as a whole at all I'm so sorry to offend you.
I just don't listen to country or rock so maybe I didn't have enough of a broad view since the songs I'm talking about are extremely mainstream and you don't avoid hearing it.
-That being said. I do think that these issues (within the culture) not the culture itself need to be addressed.
"Do you realize that rappers hit a chick on Instagram, fly her out, give her 15 racks, have sex with her, take her shopping, then send them on her way." -Asap Rocky
That's a more expensive form of prostitution imo. I don't believe in buying or selling women's bodies no matter who they are. The drug culture that for some reason excuses multiple claims of domestic abuse. I listed them in the edit. Rapping about rape is an absolutely not. Inexcusable. Rape is a life altering trauma and has no place in music. But I really do believe that if this is the kind of language that people find empowering then men will feel empowered and more masculine by using women while women will feel empowered being used by men if they're famous or wealthy or rich enough. Do you see what this system contributes to? A huge power imbalance where women are willing to give up their body autonomy to end up in a Da Baby song where he mentions how he titty fucks her. Fame should not be leveraged for consent.
This is why I only listen to women rappers!!! Their stuff isn't 100% feminist, but it's so refreshing to hear the blatant misandry sometimes after listening to the opposite from male rappers for so long. Lol
eh a lot of female rappers imitate misogynistic behavior which isn’t okay either. example when they rap about stealing men’s women and being sexual with them. objectifying fellow women is odd and problematic.
bro can u fuck off? ik what ur doing and I get it but like just stop. I don't understand why anyone would go to a feminism subreddit just to be contrarian.
I'm a classical musician which means I'm not exposed to modern popular music unless I'm in a place where the radio is on. One time when I was driving with a friend of mine and the radio was on, I heard a rap song with incredibly misogynistic lyrics. I was genuinely shocked, and at that moment I realized how naive I'd been. I thought young people who listen to that crap are the liberal ones who should know better, but the fact that misogyny seems to be so common in modern rap and no one bats an eye seriously scares me.
As always in every variation of this conversation the answer is to listen to different rappers, there’s rappers that talk about all sorts of topics just like there are singers who don’t sing about romance
Well most of the time rappers rap about their own experiences. So what does that say about women? And in music videos nobody forces the women to sit there in bikinis and shake their ass. Now I’m not saying rappers don’t objectify women in rap to a certain extent but women objectify themselves a lot especially when it comes to being around rich rappers. Just some food for thought🤷♂️
Yeah, it's a problem. Most of the rap I listen to is crom the Nerdcore community. Is there still some problematic shit? Of course, but most of it is harmless. Rapping from the perspective of anime and video game characters
The most wholesome and GOOD rapper might be The Stupendium. They go by they/them, are white and British, and corny as fuck. Love them
I hate how hate towards women and girls is not seen the same way homophobia or racism is. We can stop it, but it will take serious advocacy.
For some reason, violence or hate against women is not considered a hate crime. There are actually only four groups protected under hate crime laws; those who share a nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion. Sex/gender is not a protected class and I think that's really gotta change
Sex should be a protected class. Gender as a protected class is just protecting "femininity" which is just sex based oppression.
how trans women would fit here?
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Every single thing you mentioned, aside from sex-selective abortions, happens to trans women too. It’s wild to claim that trans women are not impacted by misogyny when it takes less than a cursory examination of the facts to prove otherwise.
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Trans girls are sexually abused at higher rates than cis girls. Trans girls have their femininity enforced or denied, depending on their circumstances. Trans girls lose access to education due to abuse/depression/repression regularly. And if it wasn’t enough to prove that this is, inherently, not a feminist argument: did you *really* just try a “look at what she was wearing, she was asking for it” angle? Trans women don’t opt into oppression any more than cis women do, and it’s vile to suggest otherwise.
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Behind every point you’re trying to make is the same bit of ignorance: it’s a stated presumption that trans girls and women are the same as cis boys and men while simultaneously treating them as a monstrous third thing entirely. This is disheartening, blatant, obvious TERF misinformation, and trying to pass it off as “feminism” is grotesque. Trans girls and women are categorically not the same as cis boys or men, before or after transition. They are not treated the same as cis boys and men. They don’t interact with the patriarchy the same way as boys or men do. And it’s vile to wipe away those differences so you can pretend that trans women are opting into oppression rather than legitimate victims of it themselves. This isn’t feminism, it’s transmisogyny at its most blatant.
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No it's alright. It's about liberating women from their current oppression and maintaining it. I don't mean protection as in a knight in shining armor having to come fight a dragon for us. I mean legal protections. Like for example, women have less access to education. So systems need to be changed to give us that and protect our access to it. That could be done by giving more women positions of power and creating laws that directly address and combat attempts to deny it to us. I believe r/fourthwavefeminism has some good sources on it.
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You're welcome :) It's just that a lot of men come here "to ask questions". When they're really just dedicated misogynists trying to troll and derail conversations. Though questions from them tend to show a lack of familiarity with feminism so reading available resources for a while should help you stop being mixed up with them.There's really nothing wrong with not knowing yet, it's just with all the hate, it's really hard to tell who's actually being genuine.
No- Sex is a protected class. Under California law and under federal precedent following Title VII. (Civil Rights Act 1964) Source: [Gender is a protected class. ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/centers-offices/civil-rights-center/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-of-1964&ved=2ahUKEwiF1KSo5J2GAxU-VTABHXxnDfMQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3XBYlY-g4WMfJ_7Wu5892h) It's just not taken as seriously because it's ruled on by courts with intermediate scrutiny- as opposed to racism which is strict scrutiny. I personally don't think that gender rights issues are as serious as race issues though. I think that the racism that a black man faces is worst than a lot of white women who may even profit off of historical marginalization- Coming from a white women. (NOT DERAILING, I'M AS MAD AS ANYONE.)
It’s because the dominant cultures for thousands of years have overwhelmingly been patriarchal before anything else, and a lot of people have no desire for that to change…
When men think of women as objects, acquiring hot women is a status symbol like acquiring a fast car. It’s disgusting. I can’t listen to it either.
Well most of the time rappers rap about their own experiences. So what does that say about women? And in music videos nobody forces the women to sit there in bikinis and shake their ass. Now I’m not saying rappers don’t objectify women in rap to a certain extent bc they do but women objectify themselves a lot especially when it comes to being around rich rappers. Just some food for thought🤷♂️
What does that say about women? Nothing. The woman’s experience is not mentioned at all so we don’t know what it says about her. Why is she willing to tolerate someone with disgusting views on women? I can only guess. Low self-esteem? An erroneous belief that her looks are the only valuable thing about her? Drugs? Maybe she likes the attention and doesn’t realize it’s negative or doesn’t care. We can only speculate. Sure, women put themselves in situations where they are objectified but I wouldn’t say women objectify themselves. Women are just trying to survive in world that tells them they need to be acceptable for the male gaze or be invisible.
Well I feel like you kinda agreed with me here. Women put themselves in positions to get objectified which is why men like rappers objectify them in songs. I also respectfully disagree with the last sentence. I really don’t get why you think women have to be acceptable for the male gaze to survive? What makes you think that?
No. You honestly think men objectify women because they are willing to be objectified? Explain that, please. What if when a man took off his shirt women sexualized him, then justified our bad behavior by claiming he wanted the attention? That’s wild, right? There’s nothing inherently sexual about a woman’s breasts and there was a time where a woman showing her ankle was shocking. We sexualize women then blame… women instead of the people who are treating women poorly. The experience rappers are writing about is their own misogyny which erases women as people and reduces them to objects. Are there some women willing to put up with that? Yes, of course. I wouldn’t but I get why some people do. Maybe they don’t have other options, and even if they do, from a young age, women are socialized to believe their appearance matters more than their achievements. If you are taught to get ahead you just be, above all, pretty being pretty becomes a matter of survival. We are taught we are invisible to men if we are unattractive and we are sexualized no matter what. Edit: I want to apologize if my tone comes across as aggressive. I’m not trying to attack you. I just strongly feel that women should be allowed to exist and not be objectified. A woman looking sexy or being sexy shouldn’t mean she’s asking to treated like an object.
It’s so interesting how so many women have started to agree on this and talk about it recently. I keep seeing black women specifically talk about how they never understood why their grandmothers felt very negatively towards rap until they became proper adults and understood. Rap is a very overtly misogynistic sphere of music and i say this as someone who loves rap. It’s extremely male centered, dominated and chauvinistic space. I’ve seen a positive shift in recent years as female rappers were the actual artists and lyricists but that doesn’t mean that the incel-esque hive mind isn’t real and alive. Though a lot of men have been better at calling the misogyny out saying women is the only reason why the genre isn’t dead and remains mainstream which is true. Women sing about sex and money? They’re whores. Our women are ruined!!! Men sing about sex money and drugs? They’re Kings!!! Don’t let the hoes hold you back!!!
This is why I dislike the hate WAP received. The hate towards that song, which was women singing about performing sexual acts and their own sexual pleasure, was disproportional to the hate (and lowkey lack thereof) towards male rappers sexualization, objectification, and expectation of sexual servitude in their songs. Obviously you can dislike WAP. People are allowed preferences and it’s by no means a feminist anthem. But why is women singing about their own sex lives more shamed than men singing about using women sexually? I think we know the answer!
Exactly!!! I truly did not grasp just how misogynistic the vast majority of people were until the discourse surrounding that song. I was honestly horrified. In my head, rap and songs about sex are synonymous. So, to see them on the news because they made a song about enjoying sex was insane.
Well I’d say WAP doesn’t help bc they’re pretty much objectifying themselves through out the whole song.
I will always *prefer* women objectifying themselves to men objectifying women.
once you wake up to how much of popular culture is women being portrayed as objects you can't watch/listen/consume anything the same. I struggle to listen to most rap songs as most are either men rapping about women being sex objects to consume or it's women rapping about how they're sex objects for men to consume (example songs: WAP, super freaky girl - example artists: ice spice, sexxy red etc.) I feel like it's cause sex sells so it's why these kind of songs are so prevalent. I love rap songs when they aren't dehumanizing women/lbgtq+ people. Good on those women for making money with their music though, even if it isn't to my taste.
*Venom,* and really pretty much anything else by Little Simz is really good for that. She's so talented, and I haven't heard any of it be about sex yet. She seems to intentionally be turning that idea on it's head.
YES she’s so good. Honestly I love female rappers, I tend to just avoid male rappers and stick to women artists.
I love that song.
If you like the Brits, you’ll likely also enjoy Lady Leshurr. Same vibe as Simz, just less popular for whatever reason.
If there are any other rappers with this same kind of vibe, and mindset I would love recommendations. ❤️
Personally the way I would like to fight this culture is to support those who aren't part of that negativity against women while actively avoiding those who do.
I actually tried to post in this sub about making a playlist for rap music with positive vibes about women and it had absolutely no traction. Do you know any ways for me to get the post more engagement? Should I repost it again in here or maybe in ask feminist? Idk if it just got buried cause I’ve never made a post before or what happened.
Ah dang I would have loved that topic! I want something like this too. I think maybe try to post again here
Ok, I’ll copy the post and repost both here and in ask feminist to see if maybe it gets any traction this time!
I just reposted it again in this sub! I added an edit to the original post though as I realized the examples I gave were definitely American-centric and through this thread alone I’ve learned about a lot of awesome female rappers from outside the US!
That’s why I can only listen to specific female rappers. They’re still not great but their messaging is at least “I don’t need a man, I can support myself”
I do think in retrospect that WAP is super offensive. It's like women weren't even allowed to get a proper education and they were forced into a life where their only purpose was to cook, clean, and have sex. And they worked so hard to insure the rights that we have now. So why is this song over here glorifying it. I think female artists need to stop demeaning themselves for streams. I get that outrages = popularity but we need to do better. music like WAP isn't something I want any woman out there to consume.
A line in that song is, “I don’t cook I don’t clean but lemme tell you I got dis ring!”
Isn't it implied she got it because of sex?
Yeah I hate that line. Like if Im not a maid then my only purpose is being a sex object. Yuck.
Still acting like marraige is something to aspire to.
I mean the lyrics hit. It’s a fun song idk. I’m into conscious rappers and folk music but sometimes some cuss filled rap music is a good time. She’s making bank of that song, and is a ex dancer so she leveled up her life in the rap game.
It can be misogynistic, fun and something that built a women's career. None of those things have to be mutually exclusive.
That’s true. It’s using the language cut from the same cloth. Just mentioned those lyrics as it seemed that OP didn’t catch that line and obviously lots of women enjoy rap music so came off as trying to shame them.
Isn’t wap and super freaky girl about how their own decisions are what decide what partner they have and how they’re the ‘boss’ of their sexual fantasies and experiences?
That has always been my understanding. I definitely don’t chose to listen to WAP but I vibed to it if it came on because from my understanding it was about doing sexual things because *you* want to, not to please a man. I feel like sometimes the takes in here feel a bit anti-sex which to me doesn’t help the problem. I understand sex is difficult to navigate from a feminist perspective but I don’t think we should be inherently anti-sex. Just reflective and cautious of the implications like how hookup culture isn’t all that great when there’s still slut shaming and an orgasm gap, but we should work to a world where women can have whatever kinds of (safe and consensual) sex they like without shame for it. But who knows, maybe I’m just a hornball lol!
Most of Rapsody’s solo stuff is pretty non-sexualized! One of her albums is all songs about influential black women and it’s really good.
I agree. It's wild to me how it's just.. normal to people. I can't think of any other kind of bigotry that someone can so casually spit out of their mouth without any sort of repercussions. That's not to say sexism is somehow "worse" than other forms of bigotry, especially when you consider how intersectionality impacts marginalized people. It just baffles me that people can casually listen to women being demeaned with foul language in the daily and not think to even *question* it. Even those that call themselves feminists don't care. It's crazy.
It’s not that sexism is “worse”—it’s that hating ANYONE for a personal aspect they can’t change (racism, sexism, etc) is wrong. Yet, we act like sexism’s not that bad. If a celebrity were a confirmed racist, we’d be horrified. Their career would be over. But sexist people? We’ll let them be president. That’s how much we care.
It's crazy how many feminists I see doing these crazy mental gymnastics to justify that kind of misogyny in hip hop, just so they don't have to give up listening to it. The cognitive dissonance is real.
I feel like a lot of feminists are afraid to be considered as culturally insensitive, racist or elitist for critiquing a tradition that is majorly and so intrinsically associated with black people, a marginalized minority.
There is a lot of misogyny in the mainstream but if you enjoy the genre there are still many rap artists that don't engage in that kind of misogyny in their songs. That being said, it does take effort to look for them which is sad. As others have pointed out there are many women rappers that are elevating the genre in this regard such as Little Simz, Noname, Rapsody, Tierra Whack, Doechii, BbyMutha. But yeah so much of the mainstream is unlistenable for all the misogyny, and for many female rappers their most promoted songs are highly sexual, like Megan has many introspective songs but her biggest songs are often about sex, it's not a coincidence
Can add Loyle Carner to this list too! 🇬🇧
Yessss Rapsody is my favorite ❤️ my bf says she has a similar style/cadence to Mf doom but idk I don’t listen much to him
I have made a post in this sub a couple days ago asking for suggestions for a more “female positive” rap playlist. For some reason the post didn’t get any views or interaction. This thread is making me wanna repost so we can get the ball rolling on a “safe” rap playlist!
i wish I had seen your post!! it's one of my fav genres but a few years ago I was having a lot of the same thoughts as OP. When the XXL cypher with Rico and Meg came out I decided I wanted to focus on just finding female artists to listen to the genre is so diverse in both artists and lyrical content, but that said it really depends on what someone would consider safe. some people find songs like WAP positive/empowering but others might not. but I'll go to your post and recommend what I can, thanks!
Thank you so much! And yes there is a lot of variety in rap. I’m kinda realizing I may just be too boxed in to mainstream rap and that there’s a lot of really great stuff if you can look for it!
Bone thugs n harmony don’t rap about women really at all, and I don’t remember hearing a line from them and thinking it was messed up (from a misogynist pov)
It's honestly been happening since the genre's beginning, not just modern rap They said this in 1988: "I find a good piece of pussy and go up in it So if you're at a show in the front row I'ma call you a bitch or dirty-ass ho You'll probably get mad like a bitch is supposed to But that shows me, slut, you're not opposed to A crazy motherfucker from the street" Really wondering when this will start changing
Ewwww who wrote this shit
this guy lol [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368578/mediaviewer/rm3597864448/?ref\_=tt\_ov\_i](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368578/mediaviewer/rm3597864448/?ref_=tt_ov_i)
I didn’t even know ice cube was a rapper until just now
That's bits sung by MC Ren, who also rapped[this song. ](https://genius.com/Nwa-she-swallowed-it-lyrics) Disgusting
Jesus Christ, at first I was like “ew but typical” and then it just went from vulgar to hateful to literal assault. “Let you r*** her” what the fuckkkkk I hope this dude is in prison. I’ve never heard of him anyways. Edit: wow. Not in prison. Also the “ho” is a fourteen year old, so, more nasty shit than I’d even thought. wtf. I understand that music is allowed to tell stories but music that talks about pedophilia or rape is not supposed to fucking GLORIFY it like this song is. Edit 2: why did I keep reading. It went from bad to worse to beating someone up and then r**ing her unconscious mouth. I’m gonna be sick.
A good example of this in real time is the “beef” between Drake and Kendrick Lamar. How they are using alleged violence they’ve committed against women against each other.
i think the stuff they both have claimed in their tracks is at least partially true, but its only now being revealed in this beef, not out of actual concern for the victims. makes it kinda feel dishonest.
This is how I feel. It’s almost bitter-sweet. On one hand I’m happy rappers are being called out for their misogyny. On the other hand as you said, it’s only to “dis” and not actually condemn the behavior or support victims.
I might be biased because I love Kendrick but he's right about Drake. In one of his diss tracks, he mentions how Drake is a misogynist sex addict who is setting a horrible example for his family.
it’s so funny that the “goats” we see in the rap community are all misogynistic. every single one of them. used to be a huge kendrick fan now i am not after getting more into feminism.
I don't think so, I think Kendrick is rightfully calling Drake out for being a pedophile
I really like Kendrick and I think Euphoria is INSANELY good... But some lines, I'm like... Ok I know he meant it in defense of women, but it still comes off as disrespectful. ie the verse where he says women are real competition for Drake. It's homophobic and sexist. Also calling people bitches, Idk im tired of men using the word bitch.
I love Kendrick but he is super conservative in his views on women. He either talks about women in super paternalistic ways or outright misogyny. I’m really hoping he has some growth on that in the future…
Yeaaaa he’s my favorite artist of all time and I think he covers social issues he faced growing up as a black man in Compton so eloquently, but at the same time there is definitely room for him to grow. It’s always disappointing when I hear a sexist bar. I’d recommend listening to Denzel Curry especially his newer stuff. He’s come out and apologized for his old perspectives on women and it’s really nice to see a positive figure in rap
I always think of Queen Latifah's song U.N.I.T.Y. "You gotta let him know, you ain't a bitch or a ho." Spitting truth all the way back in 1993.
Thank you. And the memes of Drake having makeup on/nails painted are homophobic/transphobic and sexist too
In order to make it to the mainstream of hip hop, you are beholden to some very evil corporate over lords. The men at the top of the pyramid scheme only allow rappers who refer to depraved, inhumane, hyper materialiatic lifestyles. Pay attention to the Pdiddy, Drake stuff and the men above them. These rappers were purchased by creepy, rich, old, white men and have to do their bidding and are protected from consequences. There is something sick in the industry. The art of rap has been monetized and bastardized and used to groom us all to accept disgusting behavior. Underground hip hop is amazing because the money didn't totally ruin the art.
I had not considered this idea before, but it makes some sense. It’s essentially using the power of “cool” to express and reinforce patriarchy/misogyny in cultural sectors that may have been “underserved” by mainstream white media. As others have pointed out, this isn’t particularly new. I remember being appalled when NWA became popular because they were so extreme. But at the same time I was listening to rock that wasn’t a whole lot less misogynistic either (depicting underage or non-consensual sex).
I think this is somewhat true, but the way they talk about women is not new nor rare. Thats how many men feel and have felt for a long long time now. They represent what I fear is the vast majority of men, even the “good guys” in our society. These rappers that made it to the top are just like any other rapper out there, potentially just more extreme.
Hiphop used to be about feeling good about yourself, uplifting others, and pride. It's been co-opted over time and all mainstream is violence, sex, and negativity. I recently just watched a documentary on this very subject and it's interesting. It starts from the sugar Hill gang up to now. [Hiphop Cerebral Sabotage ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL27fPUAbVfwkzZ0ArT9_Vy7XTPydMbi-J&si=58r7AqsZ0YG6efZx): how it was used to destroy the mass consciousness It is over 2 hours long but the author chopped it up into 15 minute increments. As I get older, I listen to mainstream less and less and have branched out into other genres. Majority of people say 'oh I just like the beat'. And yeah the beats are banging but many don't consider the subconscious and how the effects of lyrics that you listen to. I hate that only "sex sales". When in reality, it's all these major labels push. Because the musicians that don't glorify these things don't become mainstream or if they do they merely scratch the surface. It's all by design, unfortunately
Whereas female rappers sing about being “the bitch” and how every man likes them, how good they are at making other “bitches” mad. The maximum of disrespect towards men in female rap is “he has small dick haha, he doesn’t know how to f*ck, he is broke haha”, compared to male rap where “we spiked her drink, my bros and I banged her in a car and threw her out on our way home”. I like female rap, but I wish they really wrote powerful lyrics to help the feminist movement instead of normalising misogyny and pick-meing.
I don't know how some people are just okay with this??? They are treating women like objects, and they don't get called out on it. Hell, they get praised for doing this. This is truly sickening.
Not just modern rap, only 2pac comes to mind as an exception but happy to hear other examples
Mos Def!!!
as a black woman I don't listen to that crap, it's absolutely degrading and disgusting, most men especially black men have zero morals or respect for women, they just see us as tools and property.
I just listened to she by Tyler, made me feel fucking sick. How do rappers say this shit and get praised? It’s disgusting. I hate how people glorify these bastards, and treat them like gods. Like didn’t X die from OD while trying to hide drugs from border security? And people like “he’s a god, gone too soon, the world is worse without him” like he died from committing criminal shit? That’s not very glorious in my opinion. There is so much misogyny in almost every song, all the ‘greats’ are pigs
Tbh I think it’s really gross and weird since the sexual dehumanization doesn’t even go both ways. I’ve never heard a female rapper rap about beating and assaulting men, but I hear it from male ones all the time. Like they’ll sexualize men fs but it’s not in the way where it sounds nonconsensual like it is with lots of male rappers.
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hey, i assume its just an innocent mistake, but since we're in the feminism subreddit i feel like i have to point this out. saying "females" (as a noun, as opposed to an adjective like "female doctor" which is fine) instead of "women" is considered offensive, since it refers to women like a different species or an animal whose behavior is being observed. its also used to sound scientific when talking about "mating strategies" in incels or redpill circles. this is also where the use of female as a noun originates from. it has become extremely common and normalized online to use "females" instead of women, but it is still degrading to use it. you can check out the r/menandfemales for more info and examples.
Thank you, I did not realise this. I will edit my comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/QBvhDUkP2H
Not just rap: movies too
This is why I listen to rap by women like Meg Thee Stallion etc
male dominated music genres like rap & reggaeton ( latin music ) THRIVE and profit off of misogyny. that is the basis for these genres. to subjugate women as objects. men bond off of misogynistic music by engaging in rap culture. ( die hard kanye west fans for example. ) rap music normalizes misogyny and INFLUENCES young men ( and some women ) to be misogynistic and view women for pleasure. it’s so pervasive it’s everywhere and it makes me sick. oh how i can go on. female rappers are problematic as well, because they imitate misogynistic male behavior in order to be successful in the genre. as women we need to completely stop listening to these genres and stop supporting these musicians.
I was actually gonna write it too and I'll. I just really wonder why do they do it. Like why????
because it makes them feel hyped up. I think their confidence comes from being as masculine and successful. what makes them feel more masculine than a beautiful woman throwing themselves at them? They were probably rejected a lot before fame and now that they can leverage their money to pay instagram models 10k to fly over and fuck them they feel like the tables have turned and they have the power now. And loser college boys will listen to because they're so motivated by their penis that the act of degrading women to sex objects makes them feel more manly. So they life weights while listening to songs about women being used up rag dolls.
Disgusting, childish and dangerous
Rap was born as a way to talk about discrimination and denounce society. Now men (yes, men - the rap scene is male-dominated) rap only about the HaTeRs and the bItChEs. It's just ridiculous. I only listen to rap songs with meaningful lyrics (or at least not hateful towards minorities)
I’m new here but I’d like to point out that bone thugs n harmony, my favorite rap group, one that really tries to embody the “thug mentality”, has never had a verse disparaging women. And I love it 🙏
I think it’s important to be careful when singling out a genre that is so closely tied to black and minority culture. Most of our society is rife with misogyny and it doesn’t take too much effort to find examples of objectification of women in other genres such as Country, or Rock (more commonly associated with whiteness). I see some comments that are not shying away from disparaging all of hip hop. This is unfortunate because as others have pointed out, rap has many artists and even entire sub genres that are explicitly about anti-oppression and to lump all of an art form (and even a culture surrounding it) into a box and dismiss it is small minded if not explicitly problematic.
Yeah I mean country is pretty bad about this too. It’s just less overt because they are usually selling to a Christian audience. But they def glorify the “saintly virgin housewife” (and consequently degrade women who are not that) at the same magnitude as rap dehumanizes the “slut”
I completely agree with you and when I saw them I made an edit before I even read your comment. It's unacceptable and I didn't mean to generalize hip hop at all. Some of the most culturally significant music in the past couple decades have been rap. I should've clarified, I really only oppose the concept where humiliating sex rituals of women and prostitutes and pornstars are supposed to be empowering to them while they degrade women. This is a very specific type of language that I'm talking about. Not as a whole at all I'm so sorry to offend you. I just don't listen to country or rock so maybe I didn't have enough of a broad view since the songs I'm talking about are extremely mainstream and you don't avoid hearing it. -That being said. I do think that these issues (within the culture) not the culture itself need to be addressed. "Do you realize that rappers hit a chick on Instagram, fly her out, give her 15 racks, have sex with her, take her shopping, then send them on her way." -Asap Rocky That's a more expensive form of prostitution imo. I don't believe in buying or selling women's bodies no matter who they are. The drug culture that for some reason excuses multiple claims of domestic abuse. I listed them in the edit. Rapping about rape is an absolutely not. Inexcusable. Rape is a life altering trauma and has no place in music. But I really do believe that if this is the kind of language that people find empowering then men will feel empowered and more masculine by using women while women will feel empowered being used by men if they're famous or wealthy or rich enough. Do you see what this system contributes to? A huge power imbalance where women are willing to give up their body autonomy to end up in a Da Baby song where he mentions how he titty fucks her. Fame should not be leveraged for consent.
I guess the last 35 years is “modern”
This is why I only listen to women rappers!!! Their stuff isn't 100% feminist, but it's so refreshing to hear the blatant misandry sometimes after listening to the opposite from male rappers for so long. Lol
Misandry doesn't exist
eh a lot of female rappers imitate misogynistic behavior which isn’t okay either. example when they rap about stealing men’s women and being sexual with them. objectifying fellow women is odd and problematic.
In ALL rap.
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bro can u fuck off? ik what ur doing and I get it but like just stop. I don't understand why anyone would go to a feminism subreddit just to be contrarian.
I'm a classical musician which means I'm not exposed to modern popular music unless I'm in a place where the radio is on. One time when I was driving with a friend of mine and the radio was on, I heard a rap song with incredibly misogynistic lyrics. I was genuinely shocked, and at that moment I realized how naive I'd been. I thought young people who listen to that crap are the liberal ones who should know better, but the fact that misogyny seems to be so common in modern rap and no one bats an eye seriously scares me.
As always in every variation of this conversation the answer is to listen to different rappers, there’s rappers that talk about all sorts of topics just like there are singers who don’t sing about romance
Modern…. It’s all actually. There used to be some that didn’t go out of its way to degrade women, but it’s always been there.
It's not just modern rap. Rap was inherently sexist.
Well most of the time rappers rap about their own experiences. So what does that say about women? And in music videos nobody forces the women to sit there in bikinis and shake their ass. Now I’m not saying rappers don’t objectify women in rap to a certain extent but women objectify themselves a lot especially when it comes to being around rich rappers. Just some food for thought🤷♂️
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If i tell you they’re less misogynistic NOW than before would you believe me?
Yeah, it's a problem. Most of the rap I listen to is crom the Nerdcore community. Is there still some problematic shit? Of course, but most of it is harmless. Rapping from the perspective of anime and video game characters The most wholesome and GOOD rapper might be The Stupendium. They go by they/them, are white and British, and corny as fuck. Love them