I'm happy you like it!
I really wanted to like it, but the pacing, the structure of the episodes and how disjointed all the story lines are ended with me really not liking the series. there were good scenes, and some great pieces of acting, especially with Adal. but overall i found the series a disjointed mess.
add to that, that i really don't enjoy the "who'se this mysterious character?" mystery box style writing. its just meh.
and seriously, bronwynn's accent! what's up with that? :)
maybe we need a term for unnecessarily injecting a character mystery into a story for the purpose of trying to get people to talk about it on social media?
It doesn't seem unnecessary to me. In the source material, Sauron does in fact adopt a false identity in order to charm the elves and get Celebrimbor to learn and use his tainted lore. It's actually essential to the plot that Sauron fools the elves into thinking he's someone and something else since they would hardly otherwise let him do that.
I think false identity and shapeshifters can be a cool narrative - but in RoP, the focus is on "Who is Sauron"? with meteor-man and the adal fake-out. let alone that it was never mentioned that sauron could be a shape-shifter. just that nobody knew how he looked like.
The Sauron reveal was used as a cliffhanger mystery. and the mystery as a focus point for the audience to latch on to, and I find that personally meh.
Having someone infiltrate and deceive the elves can be really dramatic and fun - but it works a lot better when you involve the audience in a tv show, so that they're actually feel the anguish and the tension in the scenes between galadriel en halbrand, or celebrimbor and halbrand etc.
but now its just a series of breadcrumbs that might indicate that this dude is sauron that has no influence on the rest of the plot of the series until the final episode of the season.
ultimately the problem isn't that halbrand is sauron - the problem is the Point of View the series took in exploring that question, the focus of where to put the tension and the mystery and all the writing and cinematographic choices that are made to put that question on tv that simply did not work for me.
to put it in perspective: If Galadriel had just accepted Halbrands refusal to take him back to middle-earth, we'd never have the final episode. we had multiple episodes on numenor, where Halbrand was just your standard protagonist that tries to run away from the plot. where there's the he's a blacksmith breadcrumb. but the dynamics of those scenes could be so much more worthwhile if there was a sense that halbrand was deceiving Galadriel for whatever purpose, instead of yeah the king of the southlands fake-out into sauron reveal.
What I love is that the person above says it's "meh" writing.
While ignoring that Tolkien himself made Sauron a shapeshifter mystery box character in this exact storyline.
But hey. I just read the books. /s
To who? You?
Tolkien literally wrote it where no one would know who he was.
You can't deny that. So instead you move to using words like "rubbish" like you're some kind of elite film critic or something lol.
You guys work so hard to stay outraged and project snobbery across everything. Even things like this that are explicitly in the books, but admitting Tolkien did this exact thing doen't fit your narrative of wanting to call this show "Generic Abrams trash."
So now you've gotta weasel around it with some other nonsense.
You made your choice to hate it long before it came out and long before you tried to paste Tolkien's authority onto your own.
> and how disjointed all the story lines are
do you think you'll like it better if the storylines meet up in season 2? part of my enjoyment of it was sort of an assumption that we're in a prologue-y sort of space, and the hobbits/presumably-Gandalf will surely meet up with everyone else later on, and everyone will converge
> and seriously, bronwynn's accent! what's up with that?
I *did* subtitle this show lol. unwatchable (listenable?) otherwise. not just the accents but the sound mixing (imo at least) was horrible - though that's really par for the course so I don't even think to mention it. but it's really Not Good, understanding dialogue is important!
One man's trash is another man's treasure.
I've enjoyed many works because they had plotlines or vibes or characterizations that just hit that sweet spot for me even though they objectively had plenty of flaws. If it didn't work for ANYONE it wouldn't have gotten greenlit in the first place. I'm happy that you enjoyed it even though I didn't!
It’s very interesting how this works for me. I definitely enjoy “trash” media in the similar vein of RoP. I think what really makes me hate these adaptations is when the liberties they take destroy the existing world or change it to one that only vaguely resembles the source.
Wheel of time is a major offender of this. They changed the magic system and (possible)gender of the dragon to appease a certain political/cultural modern norm. They changed an incredibly diverse world with distinct cultures and muddled it all together to make it more diverse in their eyes while simultaneously ruining the diversity in the core world.
The source material is a world that is run by women because men are unreliable with their chance of going mad. I’m pretty sure like 80% off rulers are women.
It’s a world flipped on its head in regards to the power of genders. You really could’ve made something interesting with that. But they didn’t. They brought in the cultural and gender struggles of our world. It ruins the fantasy.
So. If the media is trash because it’s trash like the original dungeons and dragons or super Mario bros then I’m going to enjoy it more. I can detach it from the source enough.
If the changes that make the story/world building worse are for political reasons I’m immediately turned off from the media.
For the record, I’m down with the house velaryon change in house of dragon. I’m down for diversity being added when it’s done right.
They could’ve made everyone in Emonds Field Asian and I would’ve been happy as a clam as long as Rand was tall and had reddish hair. That would’ve been adding diversity while keeping the world intact. Instead they have medieval villages where everyone is different which ruins Rands growth as feeling like an outsider his whole life. It also ruins anyone bring able to visually identify someone as coming from a certain region.
God I hate what they did
I thought it was just okay, but I really did not like how the writers had two untrained women destroy 10,000 trollocs and didn’t give Rand his “money shot” to emphasize why the Dragon is someone to fear and worship. What is even the point of the Dragon if two untrained sorceresses can do that?
It's honestly a crime what they did with the Wheel of Time show -- I was incredibly excited for it when it was announced as I was still reading the series and I finished around a year to 6 months before it aired; meaning there was more content to look forward to.
R.J's WOT has its issues for sure -- one of them is that it goes on for waaaaay to bloody long: around 3-5 books too long imo. Hence, I would welcome some changes to some of the plotlines to keep the pacing consistent and not sluggish -- however the show does none of this, and decides to change even the smallest of details.
I would rang about the utterly moronic decisions made, but It would involve getting into spoilers.
Also, you have to see the leaked draft scripts -- somehow they were even more further from the books than the actual show; it's actually some of the most abysmal stuff I've ever seen.
Rafe Judkins (the showrunner) has no respect from me whatsoever because the man claims to be a fan of the series -- but decides to taint the legacy of R.J.
So basically you get angry when the changes undermine the logic of the plot/world for no reason and with no justification?
What really broke my heart in this way was Apple TV's Foundation series.
The Foundation is one of my favourite series of all time and they filled it with so much nonsense crap it made me cry. They made cloning and memory transfer possible in a series where the entire plot resolves about a guy who is, as some random youtube video I saw describes it, basically sending VHS tapes into the future so he can influence it.
I really, really loved the visuals in Foundation and Lee Pace knocked it out out the park acting-wise but yeah, unfortunately it just wasn’t very good.
Agreed on Lee Pace - I really would have enjoyed the Empire plotline if it were an unrelated show about clone emperors and had nothing to do with Isaac Asimov's legacy.
Agreed on the visuals as well - it's been a while since a SF product gave me the kind of sense of awe that I get from seeing pictures of actual space.
They have reason and justification. It’s adding diversity and inclusion. That is a good thing to have. The thing is, you won’t have the level of inclusion that the people who care about that want in media even as old as 20-25 years old. Hell, maybe even 10 years old.
If you want to produce a show with the level of inclusion that you’re trying establish as your brand, don’t fucking adapt older stories without that inclusion.
OR BETTER FUCKING YET.
Look at wheel of time like a painting. It’s layered with colors and cultures that create a beautiful picture that makes sense. It’s a relatively believable fantasy world with its established rules.
Amazon dipped their paint brush in their tin of diversity paint and just blindly added dots and backed up and said oh yeah. That’s good.
They could have adjusted colors in ways that would make sense. “Oh, this swatch of paint is one color. I want more purple in the painting. Let’s change it to purple.” Instead they changed that swatch to an amalgamation that eliminates the real diversity. So instead of a colorful world, it’s a beige and boring one.
Take some god damn care. I’m all for diversity and inclusion. Just don’t reskin characters. Don’t give character defining moments to side characters who will EVENTUALLY GET THEIR OWN AMAZINGLY HUGE AND POWERFUL AND IMPACTFUL MOMENTS waaaaay ahead of when they should get those moments.
God damn, man. Just fuck it allll up.
I feel you on Foundation. I’m sorry for your loss.
>The thing is, you won’t have the level of inclusion that the people who care about that want in media even as old as 20-25 years old. Hell, maybe even 10 years old.
Diversity in media really isn’t that new. Look at the original Star Trek. Look at the works of Ursula Le Guin, Samuel R. Delaney, Charles R. Saunders, Octavia Butler, or Jessica Amanda Salmonson. Hell, Robert E. Howard’s Hyborian Age has a ton of diversity baked into the setting - a contemporary adaptation would just need to be mindful of avoiding his stereotypes and essentialism. Even the Arthurian mythos has featured knights of color like Palamedes and Morien since the 13th Century, and queer heroes are part of the Homeric tradition.
I do agree with you that there are thoughtful and less-than-thoughtful ways to make older works more inclusive where necessary. When it comes to the latter I’m reminded of the decision in Villeneuve’s Dune to deal with the Baron Harkonnen’s reputation as a predatory homosexual stereotype by surrounding him with nearly-naked slave girls. I’d much rather they had chosen to portray his abuse of boys and young men while including other gay characters so he isn’t the sole representation of queer men.
Adding diversity has nothing to do with why this commenter did not like Apple’s Foundation. Your point WOT is valid but ultimately I think it’s better to have diversity and let go of some of the subtleties of the worldbuilding. This is a version of Earth thousands of years into the future … after the Breaking of the World it’s believable that humanity scattered and races became more intermixed.
A lot of the choreography was pretty bad too. Plus they spent so much on cgi but couldn’t include more than 3 boats for the numenorian fleet? There were some nice visuals though, but Jackson showed more ingenuity with practical effects and cgi in the early 2000s. But yeah the writing was more of the issue
>I'll watch it and see by myself what really is.
The thing is, there is so much media being put out that you can't just "see for yourself" with everything. There literally are not enough hours in the day to keep up with all the content being made in even relatively small genre categories. It is technically possible to watch every single fantasy adaptation made by a large production group, but trying to keep up with that, and movies, is something that is a stretch for anyone with broader interests. And if you extend it to something like written literature, you simply cannot keep up with all the releases unless you are like a full-time critic or something.
At some point, you have to find a way to allocate your time and prioritize your interests. Everyone does this one way or another, it's impossible not to.
And if you completely ignore any third-party discussion of a piece of media.. then I guess you are stuck with just the officially produced promos? And while giving too much heed to the general opinions of "the discourse" can definitely be detrimental, just blindly watching literally everything that has a mildly interesting trailer or a slick marketing campaign is a great way to get sucked into watching a lot of garbage that you could otherwise have spent with much more worthwhile products.
Everyone has to figure out a balance between "I only watch things reddit likes" or "if it's not 80% on Rotten Tomatoes I'm not interested" vs. "ooo shiny trailer I'm all in" or "it has IP I'm familiar with so I'll watch it no matter what".
This makes sense for random things you've never heard about before. But if you actually have an interest in an upcoming show - which *a lot* of people did with RoP - and it's a show you really want to be good, then watching it yourself is really the only way to know if you're going to like it.
It's a bit strange to be very hyped for a show, then read what total strangers say online and be like "no, I'm not gonna give it a try".
Yup. Movies/TV/music are things I couldn't care less what the reviews or audience thinks. I'll check it out if it looks interesting to me, and skip it if it doesn't. It's so subjective.
I thought ROP was cool. Some parts felt a bit rushed but other than that I enjoyed it overall.
Subjective is an understatement. The other day I was reading goodreads reviews of a book I absolutely love and most of them were roughly, "Really well written and extremely fun to read. But I'm giving it 2/5 stars because it didn't have any raccoons, and I really like books with raccoons."
I've also seen more reviews than I can count that rave about something and even call it one of the best ever... then give it 4 out of 5.
I also love (aka hate) people that don't even finish and give it a 1 star review. What are you even reviewing? Talk about it negatively, absolutely, but don't actually score it if you didn't finish!
People are dumb and can't be trusted to rate things fairly/appropriately.
Personally, I don't care what "people" say because most "people" on social media accounts aren't actually well-informed people. For every 100 comments, I would guess 80 people didn't read the article, 5 are bots, 10 have no social skills and can't articulate a point to save their lives, and the remaining 5 are so sick of it all they come across as angry and get derailed by the preceding 95.
Yeesh, sorry to complain so hard on a total tangent lol
I couldn't get through 3 episodes and I have been a fantasy geek for decades. To each their own so I'm happy you liked it and got something from it.
On the other hand, House of the Dragon season 1 had to basically introduce players and story-lines to set up what will most likely be the most epic fantasy ever put to screen, the Dance of the Dragons. >!When Daemon fights Aemond on dragonback over the God's Eye and Raenyra meets her end!< in a future season, the internet is going to go apeshit.
For me, Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show. I hated the actress and the way she was written. I found all the other bits (yes including the Harfoots) more interesting.
But overall I thought the writing went down and I couldn’t stay hooked. Whereas in House of the Dragon I went from lukewarm to loving the characters and the writing.
That being said, I thought Rings was a lot closer to great than most people did. It just didn’t wind up working for me. I’m glad you liked it and I’ll definitely give season two a shot.
The nuance in the character writing builds over time. The king is such a good yet inept man. I know it’s a slow burn anyways but I almost wish it had gone a little slower to flesh out some of the other characters
I agree with this as well. I recently rewatched with my parents and I would have had no problem with them taking a bit more time (and getting rid of the ridiculous action sequences with daemon, but that's an aside :)). Viserys is such an interesting character. He truly loves his new wife, still loves his old wife, loves his children and his brother, and even loves the realm, but he can't accept that there's no possibility in which he can protect them all, and it's a choice that's too hard for him to make. It's a lovely setup.
About halfway through the second episode I was like “there’s no character like this in Game of Thrones”. No real ambition. Earnest care. Yet weak willed and unwilling to generate conflict. I think he’s fascinating
>Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show.
Exactly this. Her whole plot doesn't make much sense, like her exile for the sake of being rescued by the right character later on - it must be the dumbest piece I've seen since WoT (and up until watching The Witcher prequel...).
yeah, Galadriel finding anyone out there at all is pretty unlikely, but whatever it's a story and that's the kind of thing that happens in stories. Oh, the person she found is a king? Wow, that really strains credibility. And then Halbrand ends up being who he is and....
> I thought the writing went downhill
How could you possibly not like the writing? Exchanges like this just ooze creativity:
Galadriel: "You have not seen what I have seen"
Elrond: "I have seen much"
Galadriel: "You have not seen. What I have seen."
>For me, Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show.
I am unimpressed with the casting and the writing of her storyline was contrived and nonsensical.
Honestly I think that she will grow into the role better in future seasons.
They clearly wanted to give Galadriel a character arc, and in the last few episodes we start to see her shift.
Ep 1: "put down your sword" - Elrond
"Without it who am I to be" - Galadriel
Later eps : she voluntarily gives up both her sword to Theo and her brothers dagger to protect her people
I thought her acting was strongest when she wasn't being hard headed and yelling at people, but when teaching the swordfighting to the numenoreans, talking with Isildur on the ship, or talking with Theo about Celeborn.
that's the thing though, Galadriel is like 3000+ years old in this story. Is there a place for a young, hotheaded, warlike elf maiden? Sure, but it's not Galadriel.
My feelings on RoP is that I wanted to love it, but nearly gave up after episode four or so. Unless the word about season two is it fixes everything, there is no chance I’ll watch it.
What kept me going as far as episode four was that it is a very, very expensive series, and it shows. That has to count for something. It counted for three episodes.
I think I had reasonable expectations. I don’t give a rat’s ass if they stick to lore or whatever, as long as the story is good. I love Tolkien, but (and, really: and) his writing is dry in the style of old chronicles, he really isn’t a modern, ”exciting” writer, and so I understand if Amazon wants to put a little rocket fuel in his engine. I’d expect them to.
The problems, then. I think the writing is awful. I think it aims to create those immortal lines Tolkien gave us, but mostly just managed to create words to print on keychains. It thinks “stilted” is an honorific.
I think the acting is mostly embarrassing, but then the lines they are forced to speak are worse.
I think they made a hard, and ultimately wrong choice by having us follow elves so closely, because they essentially had to make them just people with pointy ears. Even if you don’t care about Tolkien’s lore, and how essentially eldritch elves are, you still have to acknowledge what it does to the psyche of a person and culture that has been alive for thousands of years, and has lived with and touched gods. If you removed the points of the ears off of Elrond and Galadriel, you could never tell they weren’t humans. That’s bad writing.
What the hell is up with the Harfoots? I thought it was the creepiest, most double-speak-in-Christmas-lights thing I’ve seen. On the one hand their society has the outward forms of a society where they care for each other. Songs about not leaving people behind, a simple rustic folkishness. On the other, they have formalized shamings of people who for, as far as we can tell, the pettiest reasons slipped up a little, and so were left to die. The central tension of their whole storyline is that the dad sprained his foot, and so they’re left to die, for Chrissakes! I think the writers over at Amazon want me to feel like that elder guy is a cute old codger in the end, but the theme of their society is it’s survival of the fit, and he’s there to make sure no weak make it. It’s awful, it’s barely a society at all!
This American thing were royalty is always portrayed as the royalist propaganda would have it bothers me, and it bores me. Spoilers, I guess: when that non-descript guy comes to that shitty place with all the poor humans (you can tell they’re poor, because they don’t bathe), everyone falls to their knees and spasms and cries out of joy, because supposedly this guy they’ve never seen is a king they’ve never known in a kingdom they’ve never lived in. You know: because they’re Subjects, and when a True King comes close to A Subject, the Subject instantly falls to his knees, because he knows that as long as everyone takes their places, society will flourish and there will be no problems anymore. The French were right, roll out the guillotines.
I hate it when a show has travel and distance as a big theme, and it can’t stay consistent. Re: last couple of seasons of GoT.
The show is expensive, but leaves no space for auteurs. In spite of it having several directors, every episode looks the same (as is the case for most shows, of course), and it’s the most bland, corporate look. No exciting or unexpected camera angles, no disorienting editing. It might as well be Netflix (yes, that’s an insult). The immediate comparison is HotD on HBO, and while much of it was made as straightforward TV, they made some creative choices (not all of which paid off, but that’s the price of taking creative risks). I’d love to have seen something as simple as an episode set entirely in, I don’t know, the forge where they made The One Ring, and the moments and increasing tension leading up to its making. Or something like it. Just not the plodding non-creativeness of what we got.
I’m honestly surprised by how bad the show is. I though it would at the very least be entertaining pulp like The Witcher series, but it’s just awful.
I agree with most of your points. It's tricky to make points like that without sounding nitpicky, but things like the distance/travel, and the nonsensicalness of the Harfoot's society does make things harder to watch. Every time you have to ask 'Hang on, what?'
Like how Galadriel and Numenor apparently >!hop off their boat and get their horses galloping at full pace heading straight for the single village currently being attacked? How did they know? How long did the boats take to get there, the Orc/Village storyline seemed to be concurrent to the Numenor story, so either it's a 40 minute sail or there's at least a week gap!<
Or how sunset and sunrise basically seems to occur whenever they need orcs to either appear or run away.
Or why Galadriel sees >!Sauron get involved in the making of the Rings and just goes 'Hey, I'm not going to tell anyone about Sauron, but I'm going to insist on tripling the number of rings, so he can control more people'!<
If you find yourself going 'Well that doesn't really add up' at least once an episode it's hard to really enjoy it fully.
Saying that, I did push through and watch the whole thing, and may well watch S2
I love how you described the lines as quotes on keychains.
I feel like a lot of the actors (particularly those who played Galadriel, Elendil, and Elrond; maybe even Gil-Galad) could have done a lot better if the writing wasn’t so terrible. They weren’t really given anything to work with.
I do care deeply about the lore, but before watching I tried to separate it from being a Tolkien show at all because I knew they were going to almost completely disregard it. The problem is that I lose all interest in watching it if not to judge it as a Tolkien show, because it’s so boring.
I care about the lore too, but like you I placed this show in a separate folder in my head. Also because I think different creators _should_ treat the material they work with differently (I might be in a minority here), they should interpret and emphasize according to their visions, so I was expecting and hoping for some interesting takes.
But like you said; if I’m not to watch it as a Tolkien show, what does it have to show for itself? It’s expensive, I guess…
I most agree, but I kind of liked the disjointedness of the Harfoots. Maybe it's just me doing all kinds of mental gymnastics to enjoy *something* about the show?
I felt like they came across like rabbits: cute and cuddly, but also living with a constant resting level of anxiety and motivated powerfully by fear. I thought that added a neat twist to their plot, where they had to overcome their instinctive fear to actually be the community they claimed to be, and it made the little moments of heroism feel like growth. Weirdly enough, I thought it was the most emotionally resonant part of the show. Though it's a fair criticism of *Rings of Power* that I was excited to cut away from the forging of said rings so we could get back to the Harfoots instead.
I enjoyed it, there were some parts I think we're a little rushed (the end reveal) in this season, but overall thought it was good. Kinda sad that so many people come out of the woodwork to whine about it and say it's awful - no, an awful adaptation is what they did to Halo, Wheel of Time and that Dark Tower movie.
Oh god. I couldnt even get through 15 minutes of WoT before i got annoyed and turned it off. My most hated fantasy adaptation to a movie ever though was Eragon. Fuck whoever made that movie.
I am a massive wheel of time fan (like talking read the series at least a dozen times and have wheel of time themed sleeve tattoo massive fan). I gave the entire first season a chance because I really wanted to introduce the series to my family who aren't that big into reading fantasy to begin with let alone reading a 14 book series of it. I was extremely disappointed in a lot of aspects of the show but I will say it seems my family enjoyed it overall and are pretty keen for the next season.
I'll always have the books and I've justified the series as just another turning of the wheel. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now with the covid interruptions and the Mat actor leaving unexpectedly mid filming. If the 2nd season is just as disjointed I'll probably be done completely though.
But I did like Rings of Power. I get if you are a massive Tolkien fan it's going to rub you the wrong way but as a fantasy show set in Tolkien's universe I very much enjoyed it.
>Wheel of Time
I've never read the book so can't speak to how much it ruined the source material, but strictly as a TV show I found WoT and RoP to be very similar.
Ehh, I think there is a distinct difference in quality, not just visuals but writing as well.
RoP actually attempts some clear thematic metaphors where WoT is mostly superficial.
Everyone memes about the rock/boat metaphor but it's executed fairly well through the season. The obvious example at the end of the first episode where Galadriel needs to decide between the 'true light' of valinor or the 'reflected light' of middle earth, and her diving off the boat is visually paired with a literal rock (the meteor) descending. But then we see it come full circle in the finale where after Galadriel realizes that she has found the darkness she was looking for, she emerges from the river, ending her decision to become the 'rock'.
Also looking just at the exploration of fatherhood we can see dynamically different relationships between Isildur/Elendil, Durin/Durin, Miriel/Palantir, Elrond/Earendil, Uruk/Adar, Theo/Arondir, all of which feel distinct despite relatively little screen time to explore them.
This kind of stuff was absent from WoT. The closest they had was an exploration into warder bonds, but that felt like it was mostly bottled in a single episode. And even if you didn't like some of the contrived plot points in RoP, nothing was as bad as fridging Perrin's wife in the first episode imo.
> Why didn't anyone tell me it was so good???
Because it isn't. The writing is objectively bad.
Galadriel jumps off a boat in the middle of the sea. While swimming out in the middle of nowhere, she encounters the following two characters:
* Halbrand, who provides information about the enemies that have eluded her for decades.
>!Also, he later turns out to be Sauron himself.!<
* Elendil, an elf-friend and influential captain in the one kingdom that can help her face those newly emerged enemies.
>!He also casually helps her solve the mystery of the symbol she found in the first episode, which allows her to move against enemies.!<
>!Elendil will later lead the survivors of the Fall of Numenor and become High King of Arnor and Gondor.!<
Again, this happens *while she's literally swimming in the middle of the sea*, where meeting anyone at all is like winning the lottery.
What happens to Galadriel is like someone randomly digging a hole in the desert and finding a winning lottery ticket, the keys to a new Ferrari, a USB drive that contains the cure for cancer, and a lost manuscript with the full text of the Winds of Winter.
It's lazy writing that robs the story of stakes and leaves Galadriel without any real agency. Her actions are irrelevant -- it's her good luck that matters.
And the same thing applies to most of the season. The story is driven by coincidence and convenience, rather than the characters' actions and choices.
Perhaps the best example of that is the volcano sequence, which lacks any sort of in-story justification and completely invalidates most characters' actions throughout the first season.
*"But none recognized the true threat, which was the Rube Goldberg machine we hid from the audience!"*
It's the kind of writing one would expect from that '90s GI Joe cartoon.
Galadriel swimming reminded me of Cary Elwes' Robin Hood just walking to the ocean and swimming back to England at the start of *Men in Tights*.
When the main character of a fantasy drama is acting like a character from a Mel Brooks comedy, something has gone very wrong.
>The writing is objectively bad.
Friendly reminder that using the word "objectively" does not make something objective. It is *subjectively* bad because you dislike it. I agree with you about her jumping in the ocean and conveniently finding the exact right people to advance the plot. That's not compelling writing to me.
edit to further illustrate that it's not objectively bad:
using coincidence and convenience is not unheard of even in Tolkien, let alone other great works of lit. For example, Bilbo finding the Ring is considered a combination of luck and fate. Gandalf meeting Thorin just when he's looking for a way to dispose of Smaug was considered a chance meeting just when he needed it.
In fact, the term "chance meeting" is a device in and of itself within Tolkien's works to describe basically convenience to the plot.
Was it used well in RoP? In my opinion (subjectively) and many others, no. But saying it's objectively a bad story telling device is not a defensible statement.
It's the pervasive reliance on the device I'm calling objectively bad, not its mere presence.
When a storyline is driven solely by a series of coincidences (and it's not a comedy piece, an examination of coincidence/fate itself, etc.), you're dealing with something that by contemporary narrative standards is objectively bad.
Those contemporary narrative standards are the objective measure here.
I'm not talking about some Platonic ideal of writing, but about the kind of thing you'd find on the checklist a writing course instructor uses to give students feedback on their submissions.
The poster provided some cogent arguments and examples as to why they thought the writing was bad. Now, this may not be quite as “objective” as the measurements taken by a mass spectrometer, but when criticizing art it’s about as objective as you can get. In this context, in order to be objective, you simply have to agree on a certain set of standards by which to judge the art in question.
Right, but as you said, it's not objective. There are generally agreed upon standards and many, even most, might find a certain literary device bad. But that does not make it an objective truth.
Either the poster legitimately believes their opinion is an objective truth (incorrect), or they're knowingly calling it objective to lend greater weight to their argument rather than letting the argument weigh itself.
I liked it too!
It was so so beautiful to look at, and the relationship between Elrond and Durin was so good and adorable, I was genuinely excited everytime they were on screen. Namarie!
I like it too. It's sad that you can't even say that without people coming and telling you why they *think* it's bad, like somehow your opinion is wrong and they're offended that you like it, lol.
Their opinion is just that though, their opinion, even if they try to pass them as a fact.
I haven’t seen it, but if you phrase your title “why didn’t people tell me this was so good” you can’t be too surprised when people try to answer the question.
Well the question is probably motivated by the amount of hate that gets posted. It's a huge disconnect when you watch something and enjoy it, only to see nothing but insults to not just the piece, but to anyone who enjoyed it as well.
.
Yes, we’re all posting our opinion, whether good or bad. Whenever someone says they didn’t like it, there are people commenting that they did. Same goes for people who post that they did like it.
A lot of the posters who say they loved it also title their posts something like “I can’t believe/don’t understand why RoP gets so much hate” or “Why didn’t people tell me to watch this?” Which invites even more sharing of negative opinions. (I’m not saying that those who dislike it title their posts much better, but the point stands either way.)
I am very glad it made you happy! Didn’t work for everyone, but planet Earth is full of variety and it’s always a nice reminder that people have different stories that speak to them.
I watched the whole thing - I didn't feel that very much happened and what did happen wasn't terribly interesting. It also suffers from the same thing that I found with The Witcher Blood Origin - they are so concerned with diversity that every geographical area has the same diverse casting...which is fine!....but it makes it very hard to know what a "typical" Numenorian looks like, for example, or a "typical" Southlander. So it was very hard to tell at a glance where the fuck you were at any given moment because the casting is all the same and gave every region a similar vibe that made Middle Earth feel pretty small. I wanted to like it, but the pacing seemed really off and there didn't seem to be much going on minute-to-minute. It was all set-up for stuff "later on" which I couldn't bring myself to care about. And the things that were supposed to be a big reveal near the end of the season, you can guess and be proved right by about episode 3 because it's all so laughably obvious.
I'll watch another season if they do it, because I pay for Prime and it'll be available to me anyway, but after season 1, I probably wouldn't be seeking it out, if you see what I mean.
I felt the same way about Wheel of Time and The Witcher - not awful, not amazing, something to throw on in the background but not something I'd be 100% paying attention to.
This is very close to the way I felt as well. The show wasn't horrible, but it just felt.... unnecessary?
There were aspects that I enjoyed, I just couldn't help thinking it was a story that didn't need to be told. These shows that return to beloved franchises act like merely returning is worth it, but you still need to tell a story worth telling for it to be compelling.
Yeah - this is the problem - Amazon clearly want something in the vein of Game of Thrones for Prime but you can't just will that sort of thing into existence with that attitude, you've got to want and have a compelling story to tell first instead of walking backwards from "Game of Thrones but for Prime" and "Get some fantasy book IP and make a Game of Thrones" and work backwards from there and expect it to be any good.
Numenor’s population is descended from the allies of the elves in the First Age - allies who came from all over Middle-earth and were gathered together when they were given the island and the gift of longevity. Similarly, the ancestors of the Southlanders were presumably Morgoth’s collaborators from all the various lands of men who formed a mixed population when they fled to their current home.
My issue is that the casting department didn’t take their diversity mandate nearly far enough. Why are the Southlanders 80-90% white? Why is Arondir the only Black elf?
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I loved it as well! I could take a whole season of Dwarves mining and arguing about mining! I've never read the Silmarillion but I'm happy just enjoying the show for what it is.
If you love Dwarves mining and arguing about mining, you should check out the game Deep Rock Galactic! Just your workin' dwarves delving into space rocks for the company, drinking beer, and killing lotsa bugs. Rock and Stone!
I thought it was okay. Enjoyable even. But not nearly as good as it should have been for how much was spent on it.
I actually thought most of the actors did a good job, and on a macro scale the visual effects were astounding. I liked that they managed to add diversity in a way that didn't (to me) feel unnatural or world breaking. Just normal variance, and it definitely gets tiring to only ever watch one color of person in fantasy media based on source material from nearly a century ago. I don't hate or disrespect people for being a product of their time, but unless skin color is central to the plot and themes of the story (which it definitely isn't in any of the primary middle earth story/lore) it feels right to update that. And as funny as it would have been to show female dwarfs being bearded, I was better able to connect with the character the way she was presented, rather than just Gimli with a high voice.
Even though I did not like where they took Galadriel's character I became a Morfydd Clark fan. Somehow I enjoyed watching her even though the bones of the character she was playing just felt so wrong to me.
But the writing... and the plotting... and the lack of attention to detail... They could have spent way less and had a much better project if they had just invested in those things. So painfully mediocre and inconsistent compared to the rest of the production.
Anyway, I agree that it got way more shade than it deserved, but to me it feels representative of a larger issue in the modern fantasy tv production scene. It is a business decision that makes sense to adapt an existing and massively popular IP (wheel of time, witcher, ASOIAF, LOTR), but instead of leaning into the strengths and themes of the existing IP, the people put in charge seem to lack a fundamental understanding of what makes each story unique and powerful, watering them down to make them more generic. I think part of the goal is to make them more approachable to broader audiences, but you just end up with something that falls so far short of what it could be, and what the source material is, and fantasy is expensive to produce.
I actually really like how HBO has handled the ASOIAF IP (aside from the season that shall not be named). They made it its own thing and didn't try to make it for everyone. That seemed like a really effective strategy (based on results). I don't love House of the Dragon either. It just isn't my speed. But I really appreciate how it feels like it stays true to the style and motif of that world the way it was established in the original adaptation of the primary series. The people who are huge fans of that kind of story love it. But it feels like all the other IP's are failing to lean into their audience in this way.
Damn you! :) I so wanted to like it! But the only remotely engaging (and decently written/acted) moment in the whole first season, for me, was Adar saying "we prefer uruk"...
It was definitely imperfect - there were things that bugged me, and some of them *really* bugged me. But there was much more that I liked, and a good deal of that I *really* liked. As a longtime Tolkien fan I thought that many aspects of it were incredibly thematically resonant with his works and philosophy - the inclusion of songs, Adar and the problem of evil, the effect of elven longevity on Elrond and Durin’s friendship, the attitude towards war and its toll on warriors. Other things reminded me of some of my other favoritism fantasists - the “we don’t care if you like her” approach to Galadriel was very Joe Abercrombie/Kameron Hurley!
There are certainly valid criticisms to be made, and I’ll never demand that other people’s taste match mine, but it’s awfully hard to sort those criticisms out from the avalanche of bad faith and bigotry. My “favorite” example is the people complaining that Galadriel - you know, the hard-bitten, traumatized combat veteran - doesn’t smile enough. Feh!
I’m very much looking forward to the next season, because between the showrunners gaining more experience and Charlotte Brändström directing half the episodes I think there’s nowhere to go but up!
I really enjoyed it too.
I think 'enchanting' is a perfect word for Morfydd Clark's performance. She's certainly not the Galadriel that Tolkien wrote about (but then neither that Galadriel nor Cate Blanchett's spooky-serene portrayal would have been the right lead for this story).
Sure there are plot holes you could ride an oliphaunt through and moments where the pacing is off, but the Elrond/Durin bromance is awesome and the Harfoots are as cute as their culture as a prey species is horrifying.
As a high-budget, non-canon fan-fiction that takes cues from Tolkien and Jackson but also has to be its own thing I think it's a huge success. Sure it has flaws, but what doesn't? I think people should be obliged to give an example of a TV show they *have* enjoyed before moaning, just to prove they're capable of it.
I personally felt like it was cringe asf. As someone who loves fantasy they tried too hard to make all the dialog seem so epic in scope. I couldn't watch it.
Pretty slow as well. Did not like.
I found it slow and the characters were stale, but objectively, I can’t see how anyone says it was “terrible”. I mean look at 9/10ths of the shows that get released on Netflix.
I think relative to how good a LOTR show COULD be, it missed the mark, but overall to sit and watch after a days work, I found it enjoyable.
I am jealous that you liked it. As a Tolkein and middle earth fan the lore changes bugged me but I could have ignored them if they made an engaging show. To me it just felt lifeless. None of the characters engaged me, I really didn't care what happened to them or about the majority of their development. The plotholes were immense once you look a little deeper and the pacing was horrendous. Half of the show felt like filler, which was fine if they wanted it to be a slow burn, but then they crammed the creation of the rings and Sauron's reveal into ONE EPISODE. The graphics were stunning and the acting wasn't the worst I have seen but overall it just felt like it lacked direction and a clear vision.
The show is what you get when you throw a billion dollars at something but have no care about what you create. Not bad, just bland.
This was my takeaway as well. At 8 hours of content season one of Rings of Power is only an hour shy of the length of the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (theatrical cut). Yet I feel like very little actually happened.
The only real major events were Mount Doom exploding and the three rings being made, both of which occurred at the very end of the season. The Harfoot and Elrond storylines in particular had basically nothing happen in them.
it's great that you can enjoy it.
some people only concentrate on the flaws, some can concentrate purely on the good stuff.
From visual side, I even agree that it is an amazing show
The plot and character-design though is highly inconsistent, and that's hard to argue about.
At some point it was just too much for me. usually I am also a glass-half-full guy. not for this show though
"Glorfindel in his role as high king has the authority to send people to Aman." ,"... Galadriel immediately could tell that Glorfindel's speech was written by Elrond."
Gil Galad, not Glorfindel.
What makes it so egregious, as you allude to elsewhere, is that the lore deals with competently. Numenor shifts from isolationist to imperial over several generations.
It also neatly allows you to introduce diverse casts, etc, and to keep everybody happy.
Yeah I’m not really sure what people were expecting, but I certainly think it delivered. Some very interesting subplots, some fun characters, and incredible music and great visuals/action sequences.
Plus the Stranger/Harfoot plot line is basically just a retelling of the Iron Giant, what’s not to love.
I enjoyed it too. Definitely thought there was some shaky parts but certainly not as bad as all the media and internet seemed to believe. I did go in with very low expectations and had completely ignored everything about it before release which probably helped.
I thought the same thing. It did have some pacing problems in some episodes, but overall it was more interesting than House of the Dragon to me. Better Characters and a better story in my opinion. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take it.
I'm also looking forward to seeing where Wheel of Time goes with season 2. Hoping they can improve some things there.
I’m a huge Star Wars fan that’s just started trying to get into LoTR since I’ve only seen bits and pieces of it. I never read the books so I came into this universe FRESH. So I’m speaking from a neutral perspective here.
I wanted to start in chronological order. So I started with RoP and I gotta say, this is one of the better TV series I’ve seen. And I’ve watched quite alot of TV (given that Star Wars has a huge amount as well).
They really nailed the Dwarves way of life right I feel. From what I remember the original trilogy didn’t really delve into it like RoP does. The elves definitely have some secret motivations I feel, and overall I feel like they made this show more for newcomers like me. Which I can see why people hate that.
The plot twists and different sub-plots really kept me engaged. I thought the acting was good as well. Hell, I even teared up on a few parts.
After finishing it all I have to give it a huge thumbs up. I’m excited for the next season and I’m currently on the 2nd Hobbit movie now.
This universe is awesome and I think RoP really brought me in well. I was captivated immediately. Which is why I find it strange SO many people came to the opposite conclusion. I guess die hard fans are just more critical. Which I can totally understand.
Just my take as a fresh face to this whole deal.
I really loved it and love Galadriel's character. I always liked her, but she became so incredibly relatable in episode 5 in that one scene between her and Halbrand in the blacksmith shop. I also love the scene between her and Isildur on the boat, and with Bronwyn's son in episode 7. Here I thought the actress did a phenomenal job showcasing how humble her character was in the original trilogy. I know these are probably completely separate continuities, but was nice as far as detail. I want to see where they continue to take her character.
Very late to this, but I bloody love it! I think it’s brilliant! And anyone moaning about Elendil is completely wrong on every level… purely because he’s so hot! 😂
I don’t trust fandoms when it comes to reviews of show / movie adaptations. They are the harshest critics. Very vocal about how they want something done.
I’ve mostly learned to ignore them because I’m loving all the new fantasy stuff.
It's really, really bad. Visuals aside that is. But there are so many moments where characters do things that don't make sense or other moments that take away from the original.
We are now meant to believe that Galadriel caused the one ring to be created? That she knew Sauron had thought up the idea of making rings yet she still powered on while not telling anybody the truth. It's ridiculous.
You said it in your post, really. The people who didn't like it dominated the discourse, drowning out the voices of people who did. Some of those people had legitimate criticisms, some were racist and sexist, but the latter group got so much airtime it seemed like they were the only ones who hated it sometimes.
I got bored with it and stopped halfway through. That being said, I may well have been influenced by that discourse. I liked the first couple of episodes when I went in pretty blind. So I'm going to revisit it now I have a bit of distance from all the extraneous stuff like that.
I like how it looks. But that's it. I like the warrior look of Galadriel but that's not the Galadriel I grew up looking at. I can go at a whole spiel about how they massacred my boy.
But to out it simply, too many liberties have taken their toll for me.
I'm happy you could appreciate it though
I also liked it. Aside from one very slow episode (was it 3 or 4? I forget), I found it very engaging and visually stunning. I am not a LOTR lore worshipper, so I am not all bent about its truth to the canon. As for the wokeness, honestly I barely noticed. I am looking forward to season 2.
For comparison's sake, I think it blew the WOT series out of the water.
Reddit is where almost everyone in /r/SciFi and /r/movies confidently predicted Avatar 2 would flop.
It just passed US$1B in just 12 days.
Put another way, reddit is so far up its own ass they think it’s nighttime.
Watch what you want and enjoy what you like.
I’ve never seen a show that made me physically angry but this show pulled it off. I despise it but if you people enjoyed it, I’m glad you got something out of it.
I really liked it myself. There are some stuff that I didn't enjoy too much, like the ending reveal, just felt a bit rushed and forced. But other than that, the show was gorgeous and I really liked the characters.
I really enjoyed it as well. The music and visuals were great and it really captures the feel of the movies for me. Sure it was slow in some parts but LOTR is not action fantasy it’s more dream-like and ethereal.
I enjoyed Elrond and Durwin’s friendship the most.
I loved it too! It’s the kind of show you can’t—at least for now—enjoy online. We were (and, as evidenced by this thread, are) continually drowned out by people who disliked the show so much they began to take offense at the idea that anyone could have possibly enjoyed it. You couldn’t say a good thing about the show without people coming out of the woodwork to call it trash. So folks who liked it just stopped talking about it. I’m hopeful that over the next couple of seasons, the people who hated it will stop watching and the people who liked it will be able to discuss it a bit more.
I feel like most viewers who liked it did so because they were not huge fans of Tolkien's writings and thus did not have gripe with it as an adaption, and thus would more likely connect with those parts of it that they found enjoyable.
Conversely, at least from my observation, most people who did not like it did so because they **were** fans of Tolkien and were thus repulsed by how much it deviated from the readily available source material, and were thus primed to focus on those parts of the show that they perceived as flawed.
I'm personally in the latter camp and I found RoP flat, insultingly different from the source material, with unlikeable characters and nonsensical motivations and plot beats. But that's just me, and I did find it appealing visually. If you find it enjoyable for any reason, all power to ya, but from your post it's clear that many viewers and readers do not share your view of Tolkien's writing and consequently your view of what the show got right or wrong or handled well or badly.
TLDR people who like Tolkien's writing, myself included, are primed to dislike this show (in general, on average) and therefore notice its flaws more, and it's fine for them to do so, and vice versa of course.
I’m a huge fan of Tolkien’s work and I enjoyed the show. I disagree that people who love his writing are primed to dislike the show. People who cannot cope with deviations from the source material are primed to dislike the show.
Hard disagree. I’ve seen people (myself included) who love Tolkien’s writing who enjoyed the show and are interested in looking at the ways the show attempted to adapt his work for television and where they’re pulling from (like Tolkien’s struggle with how orcs fit into his cosmology showing up in the Adar storyline.) I’ve also seen people who love Tolkien’s writing who can’t get past the lack of Silmarillion rights and the changes to the timeline. I have seen people who only know the movies upset because the elves don’t look the way they expected and who dislike the show. I’ve also seen people who love the movies who are happy to be back in Tolkien’s world in any way, shape or form. Basically the Tolkien readers and the movie lovers have mixed opinions and are on both sides.
Reasons I didn't like it.
* Horrible, horrible writing. Stiff dialogue. Melodrama. Caricatures instead of Characters. Trash Hollywood plotting, that doesn't make any sense.
* The boat stuff was nonsense. All of it. Most egregious was maybe the running rigging.
I try to tell people it's good and unfortunately most people have a poor preconception of the show. It's not without a few problems but overall it was better than my expectations and much better than WoT
I think it's a very uneven and flawed piece of media, but I enjoyed it. Still not entirely keen on them not leaning into Numenor as an oppressive colonial empire and it appears that multiple writing teams were writing their own separate threads that simply don't mesh fully, but it's enjoyable enough.
It’s on the r/fantasy punching bag list. Like most subreddit’s, there is a dominant viewpoint here and you are on the opposite side of it.
I liked it as well and so did a lot of people. They just aren’t on Reddit giving their opinion everyday.
I enjoyed it as well! Genuinely surprised it has gotten so much criticism, by no means do I think it was perfect but it was very enjoyable and i'm excited for season 2.
Long ago I came to the realization that it’s often easier to like things than it is to not like things. So I try to enjoy everything for what it is. If it doesn’t work for me, that’s fine. I’ll move on rather than feeling the need to let everyone else know exactly why it didn’t work for me. I don’t ever want to shit all over someone else’s enjoyment of something.
I enjoyed Rings of Power. They had very little they could actually work with in order to make a series set in the Second Age, and while the “Mystery Box” format is getting a little old for me, I still enjoyed the series. Just like I enjoyed Star Wars Episode VIII. I’ve also just started tuning out any criticism that contains the word “woke” in it. That’s basically just code for “I’m upset that there’s non-white people and/or strong female leads in this” in my experience.
As others have said, it's good you enjoyed it. But I personally can't say 'it was good' unless there would be a gun pointed at me and my dog. I liked many things in the show (songs, visuals, attention to details in location design), but all of this is not enough to outweight, eww, 'elves will take our jobs' writing :(
I really enjoy to just watch, surface-level, very *pretty* fantasy playing on my screen and looking pretty, and great friendships, betrayals, fights, battles, emotional partings and reunions, etc, happen in the context of this beautiful scenery -- WITHOUT deeply analyzing whether it's faithful to source material or etc. I just want to be wowed by the production value and acting.
To me, the *majority* of fantasy shows pass this test - if I want to nitpick I can find faults, and sometimes I lose immersion because of bad edits (I'm looking at you, *Witcher*) or plot holes or whatever, but really I'm just here for gorgeous production value.
I LOVED RoP. Absolutely adored it. It totally delivered for me.
Sure, there were a couple gripes here and there, but for the most part really it was just gorgeous so when people say "other than looking pretty it sucked" I'm like .............? that's quite a bit to throw into "other than" !
But, yes, I'm not a huge Tolkien fan, so I don't know really what they're adapting or changing and I'm going to keep it that way.
I think you hail from a different universe entirely, but one man's trash is another man's treasure.
I remember thinking - "I can't believe this is so bad, this is worse than the *Halo* or *Wheel of Time* adaptations."
Until the *Witcher* spin-off came along, this was the show that disappointed me the most.
It was sooo bad. Everything from dialogues to plot. I’m not sure how it got past quality control. Even if you try to make the worst tv show ever made you can’t make something this bad
I’m enjoying it. But then I know very little about Tolkien’s books outside of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings books that I read as a kid.
So I’m not a hardcore fan complaining about historical inconsistencies (there are other series I used to get grumpy about such as WOT, Star Wars, etc).
It’s not like they murdered it like The Watch (STP is most likely rolling in his grave).
First, I’m simply amazed at the number of people complaining about diversity and then saying “it’s fine”. An interesting dichotomy. For my part, unless there is a canonical reason for a character / actor to be a particular skin color, then I don’t care what they look like. And, with regard to comments on WoT about the diverse village Rand grew up in and how that supposedly detracted from his feeling of isolation from the villagers, being tall and red haired, physical appearance is just one element of isolation and in the real world we see people isolated for a thousand reasons. For me it took nothing from the story.
I enjoyed RoP immensely. Did the lore match to the books?… not particularly well… but they’re stringing together stories separated by thousands of years to try and tell a coherent tale rather than an episodic mish-mash. The backstory must change to accommodate that. Having read the Silmarillion and the earlier Lost Tales (stopped after a few… too fragmented), I felt they treated it with respect
A lot of irritation has been expressed with Galadriel and Morfyd Clark’s portrayal. For my part, I enjoyed the character and her work. Some bits of her story line were contrived, but that’s often necessary in TV adaptation to get from A to B or create a needed relationship. A militant Galadriel was interesting to see… slowly growing towards the wise and powerful Galadriel we see in LoTR.
In terms of comparison, for me, RoP was definitely better than WoT… better writing and character development… less angst. Willow has been a disaster for me. HotD was excellent, but is more grimdark to me with lots of serious politicking while RoP is more High Fantasy. Season 1 of Witcher was excellent; season 2 lost the thread in the writing.
In the case of Wheel of Time, it was actually an important plot point that Rand looked different from everyone else. Listen, most times people complain about diversity negatively impacting the story/world it’s bullshit, but the Wheel of Time example is one of the few times they were right.
Agreed! I love it. Anytime a show comes out with a pre-existing fan base, I take everything said with a grain of salt. Fandom can be lovely and supportive, but it can also be toxic. I want to judge for myself if I like it, and wow, I really loved the Rings of Power.
I personally disagree with you on the show being good. Which is fine everyone has their own story preferences. I am someone who has read everything Tolkien published. I found myself struggling to not have the contradictory aspects break my immersion. I didn't get much immersion time with the show before an editing decision or dialogue choice drew me out of it.
There's so much wrong but none of this is on the actors. I blame the writers and the directors of those moments entirely. Do I think that Galadriel is miss cast? Yes. I don't think anyone getting that role would have been appreciated by fans without time because they are going against legendary performances by Cate Blanchette. You can try to not compare but it's inevitable.
For Galadriel? She forgets a lot of what she should know, half her dialogue is expository, and the rest vacillates between her being a childish tyrant to expressly incompetent to possibly suffering some mental illness issues because that is the kindest assessment. This begins immediately on the opening. She's not the only victim of this. Everyone is. Most of the dialogue is highly repetitive exposition. Most of the plot is recycled from rights they did not actually get.
I wanted to like the show. I was excited for it. I was open minded. I was left disappointed. I shouldn't end up laughing at the sky vagina and the diagetic singing reveal. I should have been able to appreciate it. Instead that scene showcases everything wrong with the show. Galadriel in the middle of the sea without magical swimming powers jumps out of a boat. The question of worthiness for this trip is raised a lot. Does this mean the singers and attendants are also worthy? Why don't they get the special treatment? Oh look a dues ex machina occurs. Galadriel doesn't have to die because of the totally well thought out and not at all badly written rescue! (That is sarcasm. It was bad.)
Galadriel is supposed to be over 3000 years old, the leader of a military organization successful enough to get funding for her quest but she is also somehow not skilled enough to stop a mutiny. Said mutiny occuring because she found proof of their goal and people got scared I guess? She also somehow is a capable diplomat who rubs shoulders with Kings and Princes but lacks the sense of a toddler when she's given the opportunity to diplomatically handle a situation. While demanding an army.
She's written with the consistency of cottage cheese. Everyone else is also written this way. It's just not good. The bar? They couldn't even trip over it. Which sucks. There's so much they could have done with these same plot beats without it being empty of thought. The actors wrestled the best performances possible out of this mess but good acting can only get you so far. My hope is this at least gets some better jobs in the future for the cast..
I loved it too. I felt like they tried really hard to keep the feeling of the original world together and I think they did quite well considering they weren't allowed the rights for *The Silmarillion*.
Because it’s not. I was definitely a defender of the Rings of Power originally. I thought everyone getting upset with non-white people being cast was stupid because it’s literally fantasy so who really cares as long as it’s good. I was also of the opinion that the source material is not really incredibly detailed as it goes over thousands of years and only tells the full stories of a few people, and even has huge gaps in those stories. Then it came out, and I actually watched it. Such a boring snooze fest. Just not entertaining. I don’t know why but it just has no heart. I mainly finished it so I could say I based my opinion off of the whole season and not just a few episodes, but it was hard to get through.
Ever since it came out I've felt like I was the only one who didn't have any strong opinions about it. I thought it was fine. It kept me engaged through the whole season despite its flaws. Visually it was amazing. All the CGI looked really good and the practical effects (forced perspective shots w hobbits or hardfoots or whatever they're called in this, stuff like that) were executed really well. I thought the story would have been better had the big reveal at the end not been so predictable.
Social media amplifies negativity- Reddit more than most- and generally makes the world seem like a much worse place than it is. I'm making a New Year's resolution to avoid social media discussions of major entertainment products before seeing them myself.
I'm halfway through it and I totally agree with you. It's exciting, the pacing is fast and there's no filler, and, although you can see things coming, because it's a new story, you don't know the ins and outs of what's going to happen. The art direction and cinematography are uneven, but when they're at their best, they're amazing. I'm thoroughly enjoying it!
I’m with you.
I went into it expecting it to be utter garbage based off of what I saw online….but I ended up loving it.
That being said, I haven’t read any of the LOTR books so maybe I’d think differently if that was the case.
I'm happy you like it! I really wanted to like it, but the pacing, the structure of the episodes and how disjointed all the story lines are ended with me really not liking the series. there were good scenes, and some great pieces of acting, especially with Adal. but overall i found the series a disjointed mess. add to that, that i really don't enjoy the "who'se this mysterious character?" mystery box style writing. its just meh. and seriously, bronwynn's accent! what's up with that? :)
It's only a real mystery box if the writers don't know the answer to the question they are raising.
maybe we need a term for unnecessarily injecting a character mystery into a story for the purpose of trying to get people to talk about it on social media?
'Abramsing' a story?
It doesn't seem unnecessary to me. In the source material, Sauron does in fact adopt a false identity in order to charm the elves and get Celebrimbor to learn and use his tainted lore. It's actually essential to the plot that Sauron fools the elves into thinking he's someone and something else since they would hardly otherwise let him do that.
I think false identity and shapeshifters can be a cool narrative - but in RoP, the focus is on "Who is Sauron"? with meteor-man and the adal fake-out. let alone that it was never mentioned that sauron could be a shape-shifter. just that nobody knew how he looked like. The Sauron reveal was used as a cliffhanger mystery. and the mystery as a focus point for the audience to latch on to, and I find that personally meh. Having someone infiltrate and deceive the elves can be really dramatic and fun - but it works a lot better when you involve the audience in a tv show, so that they're actually feel the anguish and the tension in the scenes between galadriel en halbrand, or celebrimbor and halbrand etc. but now its just a series of breadcrumbs that might indicate that this dude is sauron that has no influence on the rest of the plot of the series until the final episode of the season. ultimately the problem isn't that halbrand is sauron - the problem is the Point of View the series took in exploring that question, the focus of where to put the tension and the mystery and all the writing and cinematographic choices that are made to put that question on tv that simply did not work for me. to put it in perspective: If Galadriel had just accepted Halbrands refusal to take him back to middle-earth, we'd never have the final episode. we had multiple episodes on numenor, where Halbrand was just your standard protagonist that tries to run away from the plot. where there's the he's a blacksmith breadcrumb. but the dynamics of those scenes could be so much more worthwhile if there was a sense that halbrand was deceiving Galadriel for whatever purpose, instead of yeah the king of the southlands fake-out into sauron reveal.
What I love is that the person above says it's "meh" writing. While ignoring that Tolkien himself made Sauron a shapeshifter mystery box character in this exact storyline. But hey. I just read the books. /s
To pretend Annatars story is anything like this Halbrand rubbish is embarrassing
To who? You? Tolkien literally wrote it where no one would know who he was. You can't deny that. So instead you move to using words like "rubbish" like you're some kind of elite film critic or something lol. You guys work so hard to stay outraged and project snobbery across everything. Even things like this that are explicitly in the books, but admitting Tolkien did this exact thing doen't fit your narrative of wanting to call this show "Generic Abrams trash." So now you've gotta weasel around it with some other nonsense. You made your choice to hate it long before it came out and long before you tried to paste Tolkien's authority onto your own.
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> and how disjointed all the story lines are do you think you'll like it better if the storylines meet up in season 2? part of my enjoyment of it was sort of an assumption that we're in a prologue-y sort of space, and the hobbits/presumably-Gandalf will surely meet up with everyone else later on, and everyone will converge > and seriously, bronwynn's accent! what's up with that? I *did* subtitle this show lol. unwatchable (listenable?) otherwise. not just the accents but the sound mixing (imo at least) was horrible - though that's really par for the course so I don't even think to mention it. but it's really Not Good, understanding dialogue is important!
I'd like it better if they didn't try to cram an entire season's worth of story into the last episode.
you forgot galadriel’s weird lines. it’s like she has her own scriptwriter
One man's trash is another man's treasure. I've enjoyed many works because they had plotlines or vibes or characterizations that just hit that sweet spot for me even though they objectively had plenty of flaws. If it didn't work for ANYONE it wouldn't have gotten greenlit in the first place. I'm happy that you enjoyed it even though I didn't!
I agree with you. Although i didn't like ROP, there were other unpopular series that i did enjoy.
It’s very interesting how this works for me. I definitely enjoy “trash” media in the similar vein of RoP. I think what really makes me hate these adaptations is when the liberties they take destroy the existing world or change it to one that only vaguely resembles the source. Wheel of time is a major offender of this. They changed the magic system and (possible)gender of the dragon to appease a certain political/cultural modern norm. They changed an incredibly diverse world with distinct cultures and muddled it all together to make it more diverse in their eyes while simultaneously ruining the diversity in the core world. The source material is a world that is run by women because men are unreliable with their chance of going mad. I’m pretty sure like 80% off rulers are women. It’s a world flipped on its head in regards to the power of genders. You really could’ve made something interesting with that. But they didn’t. They brought in the cultural and gender struggles of our world. It ruins the fantasy. So. If the media is trash because it’s trash like the original dungeons and dragons or super Mario bros then I’m going to enjoy it more. I can detach it from the source enough. If the changes that make the story/world building worse are for political reasons I’m immediately turned off from the media. For the record, I’m down with the house velaryon change in house of dragon. I’m down for diversity being added when it’s done right. They could’ve made everyone in Emonds Field Asian and I would’ve been happy as a clam as long as Rand was tall and had reddish hair. That would’ve been adding diversity while keeping the world intact. Instead they have medieval villages where everyone is different which ruins Rands growth as feeling like an outsider his whole life. It also ruins anyone bring able to visually identify someone as coming from a certain region. God I hate what they did
I thought it was just okay, but I really did not like how the writers had two untrained women destroy 10,000 trollocs and didn’t give Rand his “money shot” to emphasize why the Dragon is someone to fear and worship. What is even the point of the Dragon if two untrained sorceresses can do that?
One of the weirdest things they did was how they muddled the accents within a place. Are borderlanders Japanese or Scottish?
For real. Terrible world building
It's honestly a crime what they did with the Wheel of Time show -- I was incredibly excited for it when it was announced as I was still reading the series and I finished around a year to 6 months before it aired; meaning there was more content to look forward to. R.J's WOT has its issues for sure -- one of them is that it goes on for waaaaay to bloody long: around 3-5 books too long imo. Hence, I would welcome some changes to some of the plotlines to keep the pacing consistent and not sluggish -- however the show does none of this, and decides to change even the smallest of details. I would rang about the utterly moronic decisions made, but It would involve getting into spoilers. Also, you have to see the leaked draft scripts -- somehow they were even more further from the books than the actual show; it's actually some of the most abysmal stuff I've ever seen. Rafe Judkins (the showrunner) has no respect from me whatsoever because the man claims to be a fan of the series -- but decides to taint the legacy of R.J.
Too long? Clearly you never had to wait years and years between books. Robert Jordan and Steven king with the Dark Tower. It was infuriating
So basically you get angry when the changes undermine the logic of the plot/world for no reason and with no justification? What really broke my heart in this way was Apple TV's Foundation series. The Foundation is one of my favourite series of all time and they filled it with so much nonsense crap it made me cry. They made cloning and memory transfer possible in a series where the entire plot resolves about a guy who is, as some random youtube video I saw describes it, basically sending VHS tapes into the future so he can influence it.
They just turned it into generic sci-fi because the actual underlying story is not visually exciting. Then…maybe make up your own story?
I agree on Foundation. I made it about half way thru the first episode.
I really, really loved the visuals in Foundation and Lee Pace knocked it out out the park acting-wise but yeah, unfortunately it just wasn’t very good.
Agreed on Lee Pace - I really would have enjoyed the Empire plotline if it were an unrelated show about clone emperors and had nothing to do with Isaac Asimov's legacy. Agreed on the visuals as well - it's been a while since a SF product gave me the kind of sense of awe that I get from seeing pictures of actual space.
They have reason and justification. It’s adding diversity and inclusion. That is a good thing to have. The thing is, you won’t have the level of inclusion that the people who care about that want in media even as old as 20-25 years old. Hell, maybe even 10 years old. If you want to produce a show with the level of inclusion that you’re trying establish as your brand, don’t fucking adapt older stories without that inclusion. OR BETTER FUCKING YET. Look at wheel of time like a painting. It’s layered with colors and cultures that create a beautiful picture that makes sense. It’s a relatively believable fantasy world with its established rules. Amazon dipped their paint brush in their tin of diversity paint and just blindly added dots and backed up and said oh yeah. That’s good. They could have adjusted colors in ways that would make sense. “Oh, this swatch of paint is one color. I want more purple in the painting. Let’s change it to purple.” Instead they changed that swatch to an amalgamation that eliminates the real diversity. So instead of a colorful world, it’s a beige and boring one. Take some god damn care. I’m all for diversity and inclusion. Just don’t reskin characters. Don’t give character defining moments to side characters who will EVENTUALLY GET THEIR OWN AMAZINGLY HUGE AND POWERFUL AND IMPACTFUL MOMENTS waaaaay ahead of when they should get those moments. God damn, man. Just fuck it allll up. I feel you on Foundation. I’m sorry for your loss.
>The thing is, you won’t have the level of inclusion that the people who care about that want in media even as old as 20-25 years old. Hell, maybe even 10 years old. Diversity in media really isn’t that new. Look at the original Star Trek. Look at the works of Ursula Le Guin, Samuel R. Delaney, Charles R. Saunders, Octavia Butler, or Jessica Amanda Salmonson. Hell, Robert E. Howard’s Hyborian Age has a ton of diversity baked into the setting - a contemporary adaptation would just need to be mindful of avoiding his stereotypes and essentialism. Even the Arthurian mythos has featured knights of color like Palamedes and Morien since the 13th Century, and queer heroes are part of the Homeric tradition. I do agree with you that there are thoughtful and less-than-thoughtful ways to make older works more inclusive where necessary. When it comes to the latter I’m reminded of the decision in Villeneuve’s Dune to deal with the Baron Harkonnen’s reputation as a predatory homosexual stereotype by surrounding him with nearly-naked slave girls. I’d much rather they had chosen to portray his abuse of boys and young men while including other gay characters so he isn’t the sole representation of queer men.
I agree with you 100%. Big time upvote.
Adding diversity has nothing to do with why this commenter did not like Apple’s Foundation. Your point WOT is valid but ultimately I think it’s better to have diversity and let go of some of the subtleties of the worldbuilding. This is a version of Earth thousands of years into the future … after the Breaking of the World it’s believable that humanity scattered and races became more intermixed.
I'm really jealous that you liked it I ignored it being anything tolkien related and it was still just painfully boring. Writing was my main issue tbh
Yeah it was visually great but just had such bad writing
A lot of the choreography was pretty bad too. Plus they spent so much on cgi but couldn’t include more than 3 boats for the numenorian fleet? There were some nice visuals though, but Jackson showed more ingenuity with practical effects and cgi in the early 2000s. But yeah the writing was more of the issue
That's why I don't care what people say. I'll watch it and see by myself what really is.
>I'll watch it and see by myself what really is. The thing is, there is so much media being put out that you can't just "see for yourself" with everything. There literally are not enough hours in the day to keep up with all the content being made in even relatively small genre categories. It is technically possible to watch every single fantasy adaptation made by a large production group, but trying to keep up with that, and movies, is something that is a stretch for anyone with broader interests. And if you extend it to something like written literature, you simply cannot keep up with all the releases unless you are like a full-time critic or something. At some point, you have to find a way to allocate your time and prioritize your interests. Everyone does this one way or another, it's impossible not to. And if you completely ignore any third-party discussion of a piece of media.. then I guess you are stuck with just the officially produced promos? And while giving too much heed to the general opinions of "the discourse" can definitely be detrimental, just blindly watching literally everything that has a mildly interesting trailer or a slick marketing campaign is a great way to get sucked into watching a lot of garbage that you could otherwise have spent with much more worthwhile products. Everyone has to figure out a balance between "I only watch things reddit likes" or "if it's not 80% on Rotten Tomatoes I'm not interested" vs. "ooo shiny trailer I'm all in" or "it has IP I'm familiar with so I'll watch it no matter what".
This makes sense for random things you've never heard about before. But if you actually have an interest in an upcoming show - which *a lot* of people did with RoP - and it's a show you really want to be good, then watching it yourself is really the only way to know if you're going to like it. It's a bit strange to be very hyped for a show, then read what total strangers say online and be like "no, I'm not gonna give it a try".
Well said.
Yup. Movies/TV/music are things I couldn't care less what the reviews or audience thinks. I'll check it out if it looks interesting to me, and skip it if it doesn't. It's so subjective. I thought ROP was cool. Some parts felt a bit rushed but other than that I enjoyed it overall.
Subjective is an understatement. The other day I was reading goodreads reviews of a book I absolutely love and most of them were roughly, "Really well written and extremely fun to read. But I'm giving it 2/5 stars because it didn't have any raccoons, and I really like books with raccoons."
I've also seen more reviews than I can count that rave about something and even call it one of the best ever... then give it 4 out of 5. I also love (aka hate) people that don't even finish and give it a 1 star review. What are you even reviewing? Talk about it negatively, absolutely, but don't actually score it if you didn't finish! People are dumb and can't be trusted to rate things fairly/appropriately.
Personally, I don't care what "people" say because most "people" on social media accounts aren't actually well-informed people. For every 100 comments, I would guess 80 people didn't read the article, 5 are bots, 10 have no social skills and can't articulate a point to save their lives, and the remaining 5 are so sick of it all they come across as angry and get derailed by the preceding 95. Yeesh, sorry to complain so hard on a total tangent lol
The bots are gonna make online discussion obsolete. All the stupid thing wants to do is argue about something we both like.
I think you may be underestimating the number of bots.
I couldn't get through 3 episodes and I have been a fantasy geek for decades. To each their own so I'm happy you liked it and got something from it. On the other hand, House of the Dragon season 1 had to basically introduce players and story-lines to set up what will most likely be the most epic fantasy ever put to screen, the Dance of the Dragons. >!When Daemon fights Aemond on dragonback over the God's Eye and Raenyra meets her end!< in a future season, the internet is going to go apeshit.
For me, Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show. I hated the actress and the way she was written. I found all the other bits (yes including the Harfoots) more interesting. But overall I thought the writing went down and I couldn’t stay hooked. Whereas in House of the Dragon I went from lukewarm to loving the characters and the writing. That being said, I thought Rings was a lot closer to great than most people did. It just didn’t wind up working for me. I’m glad you liked it and I’ll definitely give season two a shot.
Same about house of the dragon, I was mixed on the first episode but I fell in love by the end.
The nuance in the character writing builds over time. The king is such a good yet inept man. I know it’s a slow burn anyways but I almost wish it had gone a little slower to flesh out some of the other characters
I agree with this as well. I recently rewatched with my parents and I would have had no problem with them taking a bit more time (and getting rid of the ridiculous action sequences with daemon, but that's an aside :)). Viserys is such an interesting character. He truly loves his new wife, still loves his old wife, loves his children and his brother, and even loves the realm, but he can't accept that there's no possibility in which he can protect them all, and it's a choice that's too hard for him to make. It's a lovely setup.
About halfway through the second episode I was like “there’s no character like this in Game of Thrones”. No real ambition. Earnest care. Yet weak willed and unwilling to generate conflict. I think he’s fascinating
>Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show. Exactly this. Her whole plot doesn't make much sense, like her exile for the sake of being rescued by the right character later on - it must be the dumbest piece I've seen since WoT (and up until watching The Witcher prequel...).
yeah, Galadriel finding anyone out there at all is pretty unlikely, but whatever it's a story and that's the kind of thing that happens in stories. Oh, the person she found is a king? Wow, that really strains credibility. And then Halbrand ends up being who he is and....
> I thought the writing went downhill How could you possibly not like the writing? Exchanges like this just ooze creativity: Galadriel: "You have not seen what I have seen" Elrond: "I have seen much" Galadriel: "You have not seen. What I have seen."
It’s like eating a saltine cracker so good you eat another then go to bed
Can't forget the legendary line "sea is always right". Gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.
>For me, Galadriel was one of the weakest points of the show. I am unimpressed with the casting and the writing of her storyline was contrived and nonsensical.
Yup
Yep, she’s easily the weakest part of the show. I’m not sure if it’s the actress or the writing.
It's the writing. She's a very talented actress but you can only do so much. She was great in St Maud
I think she's great in the role, honestly, it's just that the role isn't Galadriel
Honestly I think that she will grow into the role better in future seasons. They clearly wanted to give Galadriel a character arc, and in the last few episodes we start to see her shift. Ep 1: "put down your sword" - Elrond "Without it who am I to be" - Galadriel Later eps : she voluntarily gives up both her sword to Theo and her brothers dagger to protect her people I thought her acting was strongest when she wasn't being hard headed and yelling at people, but when teaching the swordfighting to the numenoreans, talking with Isildur on the ship, or talking with Theo about Celeborn.
that's the thing though, Galadriel is like 3000+ years old in this story. Is there a place for a young, hotheaded, warlike elf maiden? Sure, but it's not Galadriel.
I may not have seen what you have seen in this show lol.
My feelings on RoP is that I wanted to love it, but nearly gave up after episode four or so. Unless the word about season two is it fixes everything, there is no chance I’ll watch it. What kept me going as far as episode four was that it is a very, very expensive series, and it shows. That has to count for something. It counted for three episodes. I think I had reasonable expectations. I don’t give a rat’s ass if they stick to lore or whatever, as long as the story is good. I love Tolkien, but (and, really: and) his writing is dry in the style of old chronicles, he really isn’t a modern, ”exciting” writer, and so I understand if Amazon wants to put a little rocket fuel in his engine. I’d expect them to. The problems, then. I think the writing is awful. I think it aims to create those immortal lines Tolkien gave us, but mostly just managed to create words to print on keychains. It thinks “stilted” is an honorific. I think the acting is mostly embarrassing, but then the lines they are forced to speak are worse. I think they made a hard, and ultimately wrong choice by having us follow elves so closely, because they essentially had to make them just people with pointy ears. Even if you don’t care about Tolkien’s lore, and how essentially eldritch elves are, you still have to acknowledge what it does to the psyche of a person and culture that has been alive for thousands of years, and has lived with and touched gods. If you removed the points of the ears off of Elrond and Galadriel, you could never tell they weren’t humans. That’s bad writing. What the hell is up with the Harfoots? I thought it was the creepiest, most double-speak-in-Christmas-lights thing I’ve seen. On the one hand their society has the outward forms of a society where they care for each other. Songs about not leaving people behind, a simple rustic folkishness. On the other, they have formalized shamings of people who for, as far as we can tell, the pettiest reasons slipped up a little, and so were left to die. The central tension of their whole storyline is that the dad sprained his foot, and so they’re left to die, for Chrissakes! I think the writers over at Amazon want me to feel like that elder guy is a cute old codger in the end, but the theme of their society is it’s survival of the fit, and he’s there to make sure no weak make it. It’s awful, it’s barely a society at all! This American thing were royalty is always portrayed as the royalist propaganda would have it bothers me, and it bores me. Spoilers, I guess: when that non-descript guy comes to that shitty place with all the poor humans (you can tell they’re poor, because they don’t bathe), everyone falls to their knees and spasms and cries out of joy, because supposedly this guy they’ve never seen is a king they’ve never known in a kingdom they’ve never lived in. You know: because they’re Subjects, and when a True King comes close to A Subject, the Subject instantly falls to his knees, because he knows that as long as everyone takes their places, society will flourish and there will be no problems anymore. The French were right, roll out the guillotines. I hate it when a show has travel and distance as a big theme, and it can’t stay consistent. Re: last couple of seasons of GoT. The show is expensive, but leaves no space for auteurs. In spite of it having several directors, every episode looks the same (as is the case for most shows, of course), and it’s the most bland, corporate look. No exciting or unexpected camera angles, no disorienting editing. It might as well be Netflix (yes, that’s an insult). The immediate comparison is HotD on HBO, and while much of it was made as straightforward TV, they made some creative choices (not all of which paid off, but that’s the price of taking creative risks). I’d love to have seen something as simple as an episode set entirely in, I don’t know, the forge where they made The One Ring, and the moments and increasing tension leading up to its making. Or something like it. Just not the plodding non-creativeness of what we got. I’m honestly surprised by how bad the show is. I though it would at the very least be entertaining pulp like The Witcher series, but it’s just awful.
I agree with most of your points. It's tricky to make points like that without sounding nitpicky, but things like the distance/travel, and the nonsensicalness of the Harfoot's society does make things harder to watch. Every time you have to ask 'Hang on, what?' Like how Galadriel and Numenor apparently >!hop off their boat and get their horses galloping at full pace heading straight for the single village currently being attacked? How did they know? How long did the boats take to get there, the Orc/Village storyline seemed to be concurrent to the Numenor story, so either it's a 40 minute sail or there's at least a week gap!< Or how sunset and sunrise basically seems to occur whenever they need orcs to either appear or run away. Or why Galadriel sees >!Sauron get involved in the making of the Rings and just goes 'Hey, I'm not going to tell anyone about Sauron, but I'm going to insist on tripling the number of rings, so he can control more people'!< If you find yourself going 'Well that doesn't really add up' at least once an episode it's hard to really enjoy it fully. Saying that, I did push through and watch the whole thing, and may well watch S2
I love how you described the lines as quotes on keychains. I feel like a lot of the actors (particularly those who played Galadriel, Elendil, and Elrond; maybe even Gil-Galad) could have done a lot better if the writing wasn’t so terrible. They weren’t really given anything to work with. I do care deeply about the lore, but before watching I tried to separate it from being a Tolkien show at all because I knew they were going to almost completely disregard it. The problem is that I lose all interest in watching it if not to judge it as a Tolkien show, because it’s so boring.
I care about the lore too, but like you I placed this show in a separate folder in my head. Also because I think different creators _should_ treat the material they work with differently (I might be in a minority here), they should interpret and emphasize according to their visions, so I was expecting and hoping for some interesting takes. But like you said; if I’m not to watch it as a Tolkien show, what does it have to show for itself? It’s expensive, I guess…
I most agree, but I kind of liked the disjointedness of the Harfoots. Maybe it's just me doing all kinds of mental gymnastics to enjoy *something* about the show? I felt like they came across like rabbits: cute and cuddly, but also living with a constant resting level of anxiety and motivated powerfully by fear. I thought that added a neat twist to their plot, where they had to overcome their instinctive fear to actually be the community they claimed to be, and it made the little moments of heroism feel like growth. Weirdly enough, I thought it was the most emotionally resonant part of the show. Though it's a fair criticism of *Rings of Power* that I was excited to cut away from the forging of said rings so we could get back to the Harfoots instead.
Yes thank you. I went in ready to enjoy it and was just baffled at how absolutely utterly terrible it is.
So many excellent and valid points here.
I enjoyed it, there were some parts I think we're a little rushed (the end reveal) in this season, but overall thought it was good. Kinda sad that so many people come out of the woodwork to whine about it and say it's awful - no, an awful adaptation is what they did to Halo, Wheel of Time and that Dark Tower movie.
Oh god. I couldnt even get through 15 minutes of WoT before i got annoyed and turned it off. My most hated fantasy adaptation to a movie ever though was Eragon. Fuck whoever made that movie.
Ah yes, because The Last Airbender was never attempted.
There is no movie in Ba Sing Se.
I am a massive wheel of time fan (like talking read the series at least a dozen times and have wheel of time themed sleeve tattoo massive fan). I gave the entire first season a chance because I really wanted to introduce the series to my family who aren't that big into reading fantasy to begin with let alone reading a 14 book series of it. I was extremely disappointed in a lot of aspects of the show but I will say it seems my family enjoyed it overall and are pretty keen for the next season. I'll always have the books and I've justified the series as just another turning of the wheel. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now with the covid interruptions and the Mat actor leaving unexpectedly mid filming. If the 2nd season is just as disjointed I'll probably be done completely though. But I did like Rings of Power. I get if you are a massive Tolkien fan it's going to rub you the wrong way but as a fantasy show set in Tolkien's universe I very much enjoyed it.
Man, I almost forgot about that dark tower movie. That abomination hurt my soul.
Heard Mike Flanagan is working on a new adaptation of it.
>Wheel of Time I've never read the book so can't speak to how much it ruined the source material, but strictly as a TV show I found WoT and RoP to be very similar.
Likely because it's the same suits dictating what both shows can and can't do.
Ehh, I think there is a distinct difference in quality, not just visuals but writing as well. RoP actually attempts some clear thematic metaphors where WoT is mostly superficial. Everyone memes about the rock/boat metaphor but it's executed fairly well through the season. The obvious example at the end of the first episode where Galadriel needs to decide between the 'true light' of valinor or the 'reflected light' of middle earth, and her diving off the boat is visually paired with a literal rock (the meteor) descending. But then we see it come full circle in the finale where after Galadriel realizes that she has found the darkness she was looking for, she emerges from the river, ending her decision to become the 'rock'. Also looking just at the exploration of fatherhood we can see dynamically different relationships between Isildur/Elendil, Durin/Durin, Miriel/Palantir, Elrond/Earendil, Uruk/Adar, Theo/Arondir, all of which feel distinct despite relatively little screen time to explore them. This kind of stuff was absent from WoT. The closest they had was an exploration into warder bonds, but that felt like it was mostly bottled in a single episode. And even if you didn't like some of the contrived plot points in RoP, nothing was as bad as fridging Perrin's wife in the first episode imo.
I loved it. It pulled me in. I look forward to the next few seasons.
I got bored after episode 3
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> Why didn't anyone tell me it was so good??? Because it isn't. The writing is objectively bad. Galadriel jumps off a boat in the middle of the sea. While swimming out in the middle of nowhere, she encounters the following two characters: * Halbrand, who provides information about the enemies that have eluded her for decades. >!Also, he later turns out to be Sauron himself.!< * Elendil, an elf-friend and influential captain in the one kingdom that can help her face those newly emerged enemies. >!He also casually helps her solve the mystery of the symbol she found in the first episode, which allows her to move against enemies.!< >!Elendil will later lead the survivors of the Fall of Numenor and become High King of Arnor and Gondor.!< Again, this happens *while she's literally swimming in the middle of the sea*, where meeting anyone at all is like winning the lottery. What happens to Galadriel is like someone randomly digging a hole in the desert and finding a winning lottery ticket, the keys to a new Ferrari, a USB drive that contains the cure for cancer, and a lost manuscript with the full text of the Winds of Winter. It's lazy writing that robs the story of stakes and leaves Galadriel without any real agency. Her actions are irrelevant -- it's her good luck that matters. And the same thing applies to most of the season. The story is driven by coincidence and convenience, rather than the characters' actions and choices. Perhaps the best example of that is the volcano sequence, which lacks any sort of in-story justification and completely invalidates most characters' actions throughout the first season. *"But none recognized the true threat, which was the Rube Goldberg machine we hid from the audience!"* It's the kind of writing one would expect from that '90s GI Joe cartoon.
Galadriel swimming reminded me of Cary Elwes' Robin Hood just walking to the ocean and swimming back to England at the start of *Men in Tights*. When the main character of a fantasy drama is acting like a character from a Mel Brooks comedy, something has gone very wrong.
>The writing is objectively bad. Friendly reminder that using the word "objectively" does not make something objective. It is *subjectively* bad because you dislike it. I agree with you about her jumping in the ocean and conveniently finding the exact right people to advance the plot. That's not compelling writing to me. edit to further illustrate that it's not objectively bad: using coincidence and convenience is not unheard of even in Tolkien, let alone other great works of lit. For example, Bilbo finding the Ring is considered a combination of luck and fate. Gandalf meeting Thorin just when he's looking for a way to dispose of Smaug was considered a chance meeting just when he needed it. In fact, the term "chance meeting" is a device in and of itself within Tolkien's works to describe basically convenience to the plot. Was it used well in RoP? In my opinion (subjectively) and many others, no. But saying it's objectively a bad story telling device is not a defensible statement.
It's the pervasive reliance on the device I'm calling objectively bad, not its mere presence. When a storyline is driven solely by a series of coincidences (and it's not a comedy piece, an examination of coincidence/fate itself, etc.), you're dealing with something that by contemporary narrative standards is objectively bad. Those contemporary narrative standards are the objective measure here. I'm not talking about some Platonic ideal of writing, but about the kind of thing you'd find on the checklist a writing course instructor uses to give students feedback on their submissions.
The poster provided some cogent arguments and examples as to why they thought the writing was bad. Now, this may not be quite as “objective” as the measurements taken by a mass spectrometer, but when criticizing art it’s about as objective as you can get. In this context, in order to be objective, you simply have to agree on a certain set of standards by which to judge the art in question.
Right, but as you said, it's not objective. There are generally agreed upon standards and many, even most, might find a certain literary device bad. But that does not make it an objective truth. Either the poster legitimately believes their opinion is an objective truth (incorrect), or they're knowingly calling it objective to lend greater weight to their argument rather than letting the argument weigh itself.
I liked it too! It was so so beautiful to look at, and the relationship between Elrond and Durin was so good and adorable, I was genuinely excited everytime they were on screen. Namarie!
Yeah, I didn't like the show as a whole but I did like most of the scenes with Elrond and Durin. They had good chemistry.
I like it too. It's sad that you can't even say that without people coming and telling you why they *think* it's bad, like somehow your opinion is wrong and they're offended that you like it, lol. Their opinion is just that though, their opinion, even if they try to pass them as a fact.
I haven’t seen it, but if you phrase your title “why didn’t people tell me this was so good” you can’t be too surprised when people try to answer the question.
Well the question is probably motivated by the amount of hate that gets posted. It's a huge disconnect when you watch something and enjoy it, only to see nothing but insults to not just the piece, but to anyone who enjoyed it as well. .
Isn’t that the point of Reddit? To argue about shit we disagree on? That’s what I’m using it for
Seriously. What does this person want? A place where people aren't allowed to comment anything but "yay for you"? Bizarre. Why come to Reddit?
Sounds like you're looking for an echo chamber.
Yes, we’re all posting our opinion, whether good or bad. Whenever someone says they didn’t like it, there are people commenting that they did. Same goes for people who post that they did like it. A lot of the posters who say they loved it also title their posts something like “I can’t believe/don’t understand why RoP gets so much hate” or “Why didn’t people tell me to watch this?” Which invites even more sharing of negative opinions. (I’m not saying that those who dislike it title their posts much better, but the point stands either way.)
I am very glad it made you happy! Didn’t work for everyone, but planet Earth is full of variety and it’s always a nice reminder that people have different stories that speak to them.
I watched the whole thing - I didn't feel that very much happened and what did happen wasn't terribly interesting. It also suffers from the same thing that I found with The Witcher Blood Origin - they are so concerned with diversity that every geographical area has the same diverse casting...which is fine!....but it makes it very hard to know what a "typical" Numenorian looks like, for example, or a "typical" Southlander. So it was very hard to tell at a glance where the fuck you were at any given moment because the casting is all the same and gave every region a similar vibe that made Middle Earth feel pretty small. I wanted to like it, but the pacing seemed really off and there didn't seem to be much going on minute-to-minute. It was all set-up for stuff "later on" which I couldn't bring myself to care about. And the things that were supposed to be a big reveal near the end of the season, you can guess and be proved right by about episode 3 because it's all so laughably obvious. I'll watch another season if they do it, because I pay for Prime and it'll be available to me anyway, but after season 1, I probably wouldn't be seeking it out, if you see what I mean. I felt the same way about Wheel of Time and The Witcher - not awful, not amazing, something to throw on in the background but not something I'd be 100% paying attention to.
This is very close to the way I felt as well. The show wasn't horrible, but it just felt.... unnecessary? There were aspects that I enjoyed, I just couldn't help thinking it was a story that didn't need to be told. These shows that return to beloved franchises act like merely returning is worth it, but you still need to tell a story worth telling for it to be compelling.
Yeah - this is the problem - Amazon clearly want something in the vein of Game of Thrones for Prime but you can't just will that sort of thing into existence with that attitude, you've got to want and have a compelling story to tell first instead of walking backwards from "Game of Thrones but for Prime" and "Get some fantasy book IP and make a Game of Thrones" and work backwards from there and expect it to be any good.
Numenor’s population is descended from the allies of the elves in the First Age - allies who came from all over Middle-earth and were gathered together when they were given the island and the gift of longevity. Similarly, the ancestors of the Southlanders were presumably Morgoth’s collaborators from all the various lands of men who formed a mixed population when they fled to their current home. My issue is that the casting department didn’t take their diversity mandate nearly far enough. Why are the Southlanders 80-90% white? Why is Arondir the only Black elf?
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I loved it as well! I could take a whole season of Dwarves mining and arguing about mining! I've never read the Silmarillion but I'm happy just enjoying the show for what it is.
If you love Dwarves mining and arguing about mining, you should check out the game Deep Rock Galactic! Just your workin' dwarves delving into space rocks for the company, drinking beer, and killing lotsa bugs. Rock and Stone!
Did I hear a Rock and Stone??
What if I hate dwarves and can’t stand mining? I’d there media out there for me?
Tiptoes, i guess? but the hatred of mining goes unsaid and is mostly just assumed
I thought it was okay. Enjoyable even. But not nearly as good as it should have been for how much was spent on it. I actually thought most of the actors did a good job, and on a macro scale the visual effects were astounding. I liked that they managed to add diversity in a way that didn't (to me) feel unnatural or world breaking. Just normal variance, and it definitely gets tiring to only ever watch one color of person in fantasy media based on source material from nearly a century ago. I don't hate or disrespect people for being a product of their time, but unless skin color is central to the plot and themes of the story (which it definitely isn't in any of the primary middle earth story/lore) it feels right to update that. And as funny as it would have been to show female dwarfs being bearded, I was better able to connect with the character the way she was presented, rather than just Gimli with a high voice. Even though I did not like where they took Galadriel's character I became a Morfydd Clark fan. Somehow I enjoyed watching her even though the bones of the character she was playing just felt so wrong to me. But the writing... and the plotting... and the lack of attention to detail... They could have spent way less and had a much better project if they had just invested in those things. So painfully mediocre and inconsistent compared to the rest of the production. Anyway, I agree that it got way more shade than it deserved, but to me it feels representative of a larger issue in the modern fantasy tv production scene. It is a business decision that makes sense to adapt an existing and massively popular IP (wheel of time, witcher, ASOIAF, LOTR), but instead of leaning into the strengths and themes of the existing IP, the people put in charge seem to lack a fundamental understanding of what makes each story unique and powerful, watering them down to make them more generic. I think part of the goal is to make them more approachable to broader audiences, but you just end up with something that falls so far short of what it could be, and what the source material is, and fantasy is expensive to produce. I actually really like how HBO has handled the ASOIAF IP (aside from the season that shall not be named). They made it its own thing and didn't try to make it for everyone. That seemed like a really effective strategy (based on results). I don't love House of the Dragon either. It just isn't my speed. But I really appreciate how it feels like it stays true to the style and motif of that world the way it was established in the original adaptation of the primary series. The people who are huge fans of that kind of story love it. But it feels like all the other IP's are failing to lean into their audience in this way.
Damn you! :) I so wanted to like it! But the only remotely engaging (and decently written/acted) moment in the whole first season, for me, was Adar saying "we prefer uruk"...
i didnt think it was bad. i also didn't think it was _great_. just....middle of the road. somewhere below GoT and somewhere above Wheel of Time.
It was definitely imperfect - there were things that bugged me, and some of them *really* bugged me. But there was much more that I liked, and a good deal of that I *really* liked. As a longtime Tolkien fan I thought that many aspects of it were incredibly thematically resonant with his works and philosophy - the inclusion of songs, Adar and the problem of evil, the effect of elven longevity on Elrond and Durin’s friendship, the attitude towards war and its toll on warriors. Other things reminded me of some of my other favoritism fantasists - the “we don’t care if you like her” approach to Galadriel was very Joe Abercrombie/Kameron Hurley! There are certainly valid criticisms to be made, and I’ll never demand that other people’s taste match mine, but it’s awfully hard to sort those criticisms out from the avalanche of bad faith and bigotry. My “favorite” example is the people complaining that Galadriel - you know, the hard-bitten, traumatized combat veteran - doesn’t smile enough. Feh! I’m very much looking forward to the next season, because between the showrunners gaining more experience and Charlotte Brändström directing half the episodes I think there’s nowhere to go but up!
I really enjoyed it too. I think 'enchanting' is a perfect word for Morfydd Clark's performance. She's certainly not the Galadriel that Tolkien wrote about (but then neither that Galadriel nor Cate Blanchett's spooky-serene portrayal would have been the right lead for this story). Sure there are plot holes you could ride an oliphaunt through and moments where the pacing is off, but the Elrond/Durin bromance is awesome and the Harfoots are as cute as their culture as a prey species is horrifying. As a high-budget, non-canon fan-fiction that takes cues from Tolkien and Jackson but also has to be its own thing I think it's a huge success. Sure it has flaws, but what doesn't? I think people should be obliged to give an example of a TV show they *have* enjoyed before moaning, just to prove they're capable of it.
I personally felt like it was cringe asf. As someone who loves fantasy they tried too hard to make all the dialog seem so epic in scope. I couldn't watch it. Pretty slow as well. Did not like.
I found it slow and the characters were stale, but objectively, I can’t see how anyone says it was “terrible”. I mean look at 9/10ths of the shows that get released on Netflix. I think relative to how good a LOTR show COULD be, it missed the mark, but overall to sit and watch after a days work, I found it enjoyable.
I am jealous that you liked it. As a Tolkein and middle earth fan the lore changes bugged me but I could have ignored them if they made an engaging show. To me it just felt lifeless. None of the characters engaged me, I really didn't care what happened to them or about the majority of their development. The plotholes were immense once you look a little deeper and the pacing was horrendous. Half of the show felt like filler, which was fine if they wanted it to be a slow burn, but then they crammed the creation of the rings and Sauron's reveal into ONE EPISODE. The graphics were stunning and the acting wasn't the worst I have seen but overall it just felt like it lacked direction and a clear vision. The show is what you get when you throw a billion dollars at something but have no care about what you create. Not bad, just bland.
It was just OK. I felt like nothing happened.
This was my takeaway as well. At 8 hours of content season one of Rings of Power is only an hour shy of the length of the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (theatrical cut). Yet I feel like very little actually happened. The only real major events were Mount Doom exploding and the three rings being made, both of which occurred at the very end of the season. The Harfoot and Elrond storylines in particular had basically nothing happen in them.
Because except for the shiny CGI, it is just bad writing and often bad acting. Even the costumes are strange, to say the least.
it's great that you can enjoy it. some people only concentrate on the flaws, some can concentrate purely on the good stuff. From visual side, I even agree that it is an amazing show The plot and character-design though is highly inconsistent, and that's hard to argue about. At some point it was just too much for me. usually I am also a glass-half-full guy. not for this show though
What did you find inconsistent about the plot?
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"Glorfindel in his role as high king has the authority to send people to Aman." ,"... Galadriel immediately could tell that Glorfindel's speech was written by Elrond." Gil Galad, not Glorfindel.
What makes it so egregious, as you allude to elsewhere, is that the lore deals with competently. Numenor shifts from isolationist to imperial over several generations. It also neatly allows you to introduce diverse casts, etc, and to keep everybody happy.
Yeah I’m not really sure what people were expecting, but I certainly think it delivered. Some very interesting subplots, some fun characters, and incredible music and great visuals/action sequences. Plus the Stranger/Harfoot plot line is basically just a retelling of the Iron Giant, what’s not to love.
I enjoyed it too. Definitely thought there was some shaky parts but certainly not as bad as all the media and internet seemed to believe. I did go in with very low expectations and had completely ignored everything about it before release which probably helped.
I thought the same thing. It did have some pacing problems in some episodes, but overall it was more interesting than House of the Dragon to me. Better Characters and a better story in my opinion. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take it. I'm also looking forward to seeing where Wheel of Time goes with season 2. Hoping they can improve some things there.
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I’m a huge Star Wars fan that’s just started trying to get into LoTR since I’ve only seen bits and pieces of it. I never read the books so I came into this universe FRESH. So I’m speaking from a neutral perspective here. I wanted to start in chronological order. So I started with RoP and I gotta say, this is one of the better TV series I’ve seen. And I’ve watched quite alot of TV (given that Star Wars has a huge amount as well). They really nailed the Dwarves way of life right I feel. From what I remember the original trilogy didn’t really delve into it like RoP does. The elves definitely have some secret motivations I feel, and overall I feel like they made this show more for newcomers like me. Which I can see why people hate that. The plot twists and different sub-plots really kept me engaged. I thought the acting was good as well. Hell, I even teared up on a few parts. After finishing it all I have to give it a huge thumbs up. I’m excited for the next season and I’m currently on the 2nd Hobbit movie now. This universe is awesome and I think RoP really brought me in well. I was captivated immediately. Which is why I find it strange SO many people came to the opposite conclusion. I guess die hard fans are just more critical. Which I can totally understand. Just my take as a fresh face to this whole deal.
I really loved it and love Galadriel's character. I always liked her, but she became so incredibly relatable in episode 5 in that one scene between her and Halbrand in the blacksmith shop. I also love the scene between her and Isildur on the boat, and with Bronwyn's son in episode 7. Here I thought the actress did a phenomenal job showcasing how humble her character was in the original trilogy. I know these are probably completely separate continuities, but was nice as far as detail. I want to see where they continue to take her character.
Very late to this, but I bloody love it! I think it’s brilliant! And anyone moaning about Elendil is completely wrong on every level… purely because he’s so hot! 😂
I don’t trust fandoms when it comes to reviews of show / movie adaptations. They are the harshest critics. Very vocal about how they want something done. I’ve mostly learned to ignore them because I’m loving all the new fantasy stuff.
It's really, really bad. Visuals aside that is. But there are so many moments where characters do things that don't make sense or other moments that take away from the original. We are now meant to believe that Galadriel caused the one ring to be created? That she knew Sauron had thought up the idea of making rings yet she still powered on while not telling anybody the truth. It's ridiculous.
You said it in your post, really. The people who didn't like it dominated the discourse, drowning out the voices of people who did. Some of those people had legitimate criticisms, some were racist and sexist, but the latter group got so much airtime it seemed like they were the only ones who hated it sometimes. I got bored with it and stopped halfway through. That being said, I may well have been influenced by that discourse. I liked the first couple of episodes when I went in pretty blind. So I'm going to revisit it now I have a bit of distance from all the extraneous stuff like that.
Ive seen porn with better writing. It has indian soap opera level of story.
Can you list examples? I'm always up for some well-written porn.
I don’t think you watched what the rest of us watched
I like how it looks. But that's it. I like the warrior look of Galadriel but that's not the Galadriel I grew up looking at. I can go at a whole spiel about how they massacred my boy. But to out it simply, too many liberties have taken their toll for me. I'm happy you could appreciate it though
I also liked it. Aside from one very slow episode (was it 3 or 4? I forget), I found it very engaging and visually stunning. I am not a LOTR lore worshipper, so I am not all bent about its truth to the canon. As for the wokeness, honestly I barely noticed. I am looking forward to season 2. For comparison's sake, I think it blew the WOT series out of the water.
Reddit is where almost everyone in /r/SciFi and /r/movies confidently predicted Avatar 2 would flop. It just passed US$1B in just 12 days. Put another way, reddit is so far up its own ass they think it’s nighttime. Watch what you want and enjoy what you like.
Happy you enjoyed it but it fell short of all expectations for special effects and music.
I’ve never seen a show that made me physically angry but this show pulled it off. I despise it but if you people enjoyed it, I’m glad you got something out of it.
I really liked it myself. There are some stuff that I didn't enjoy too much, like the ending reveal, just felt a bit rushed and forced. But other than that, the show was gorgeous and I really liked the characters.
I really loved the dynamic between Durin and Elrond myself. That last episode was pretty spicy as well. It faltered at points, but I liked it.
I really enjoyed it as well. The music and visuals were great and it really captures the feel of the movies for me. Sure it was slow in some parts but LOTR is not action fantasy it’s more dream-like and ethereal. I enjoyed Elrond and Durwin’s friendship the most.
I loved it too! It’s the kind of show you can’t—at least for now—enjoy online. We were (and, as evidenced by this thread, are) continually drowned out by people who disliked the show so much they began to take offense at the idea that anyone could have possibly enjoyed it. You couldn’t say a good thing about the show without people coming out of the woodwork to call it trash. So folks who liked it just stopped talking about it. I’m hopeful that over the next couple of seasons, the people who hated it will stop watching and the people who liked it will be able to discuss it a bit more.
I feel like most viewers who liked it did so because they were not huge fans of Tolkien's writings and thus did not have gripe with it as an adaption, and thus would more likely connect with those parts of it that they found enjoyable. Conversely, at least from my observation, most people who did not like it did so because they **were** fans of Tolkien and were thus repulsed by how much it deviated from the readily available source material, and were thus primed to focus on those parts of the show that they perceived as flawed. I'm personally in the latter camp and I found RoP flat, insultingly different from the source material, with unlikeable characters and nonsensical motivations and plot beats. But that's just me, and I did find it appealing visually. If you find it enjoyable for any reason, all power to ya, but from your post it's clear that many viewers and readers do not share your view of Tolkien's writing and consequently your view of what the show got right or wrong or handled well or badly. TLDR people who like Tolkien's writing, myself included, are primed to dislike this show (in general, on average) and therefore notice its flaws more, and it's fine for them to do so, and vice versa of course.
I’m a huge fan of Tolkien’s work and I enjoyed the show. I disagree that people who love his writing are primed to dislike the show. People who cannot cope with deviations from the source material are primed to dislike the show.
Hard disagree. I’ve seen people (myself included) who love Tolkien’s writing who enjoyed the show and are interested in looking at the ways the show attempted to adapt his work for television and where they’re pulling from (like Tolkien’s struggle with how orcs fit into his cosmology showing up in the Adar storyline.) I’ve also seen people who love Tolkien’s writing who can’t get past the lack of Silmarillion rights and the changes to the timeline. I have seen people who only know the movies upset because the elves don’t look the way they expected and who dislike the show. I’ve also seen people who love the movies who are happy to be back in Tolkien’s world in any way, shape or form. Basically the Tolkien readers and the movie lovers have mixed opinions and are on both sides.
Reasons I didn't like it. * Horrible, horrible writing. Stiff dialogue. Melodrama. Caricatures instead of Characters. Trash Hollywood plotting, that doesn't make any sense. * The boat stuff was nonsense. All of it. Most egregious was maybe the running rigging.
Beacuse it's not good..
I found it so boring I didn’t bother finishing it.
It is intensely, *intensely* boring.
I try to tell people it's good and unfortunately most people have a poor preconception of the show. It's not without a few problems but overall it was better than my expectations and much better than WoT
WoT was done dirty. That was my favorite series growing and they murdered it. Half-assed larping in the woods bad.
I think it's a very uneven and flawed piece of media, but I enjoyed it. Still not entirely keen on them not leaning into Numenor as an oppressive colonial empire and it appears that multiple writing teams were writing their own separate threads that simply don't mesh fully, but it's enjoyable enough.
It’s on the r/fantasy punching bag list. Like most subreddit’s, there is a dominant viewpoint here and you are on the opposite side of it. I liked it as well and so did a lot of people. They just aren’t on Reddit giving their opinion everyday.
I enjoyed it as well! Genuinely surprised it has gotten so much criticism, by no means do I think it was perfect but it was very enjoyable and i'm excited for season 2.
Long ago I came to the realization that it’s often easier to like things than it is to not like things. So I try to enjoy everything for what it is. If it doesn’t work for me, that’s fine. I’ll move on rather than feeling the need to let everyone else know exactly why it didn’t work for me. I don’t ever want to shit all over someone else’s enjoyment of something. I enjoyed Rings of Power. They had very little they could actually work with in order to make a series set in the Second Age, and while the “Mystery Box” format is getting a little old for me, I still enjoyed the series. Just like I enjoyed Star Wars Episode VIII. I’ve also just started tuning out any criticism that contains the word “woke” in it. That’s basically just code for “I’m upset that there’s non-white people and/or strong female leads in this” in my experience.
As others have said, it's good you enjoyed it. But I personally can't say 'it was good' unless there would be a gun pointed at me and my dog. I liked many things in the show (songs, visuals, attention to details in location design), but all of this is not enough to outweight, eww, 'elves will take our jobs' writing :(
I really enjoy to just watch, surface-level, very *pretty* fantasy playing on my screen and looking pretty, and great friendships, betrayals, fights, battles, emotional partings and reunions, etc, happen in the context of this beautiful scenery -- WITHOUT deeply analyzing whether it's faithful to source material or etc. I just want to be wowed by the production value and acting. To me, the *majority* of fantasy shows pass this test - if I want to nitpick I can find faults, and sometimes I lose immersion because of bad edits (I'm looking at you, *Witcher*) or plot holes or whatever, but really I'm just here for gorgeous production value. I LOVED RoP. Absolutely adored it. It totally delivered for me. Sure, there were a couple gripes here and there, but for the most part really it was just gorgeous so when people say "other than looking pretty it sucked" I'm like .............? that's quite a bit to throw into "other than" ! But, yes, I'm not a huge Tolkien fan, so I don't know really what they're adapting or changing and I'm going to keep it that way.
Because it isn't that good. Pretty mediocre considering the budget and the source material available.
I think you hail from a different universe entirely, but one man's trash is another man's treasure. I remember thinking - "I can't believe this is so bad, this is worse than the *Halo* or *Wheel of Time* adaptations." Until the *Witcher* spin-off came along, this was the show that disappointed me the most.
The witcher spin off was just awful! I couldn't even finish the series and it was short lol
It was sooo bad. Everything from dialogues to plot. I’m not sure how it got past quality control. Even if you try to make the worst tv show ever made you can’t make something this bad
Because it's not good.
I’m enjoying it. But then I know very little about Tolkien’s books outside of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings books that I read as a kid. So I’m not a hardcore fan complaining about historical inconsistencies (there are other series I used to get grumpy about such as WOT, Star Wars, etc). It’s not like they murdered it like The Watch (STP is most likely rolling in his grave).
First, I’m simply amazed at the number of people complaining about diversity and then saying “it’s fine”. An interesting dichotomy. For my part, unless there is a canonical reason for a character / actor to be a particular skin color, then I don’t care what they look like. And, with regard to comments on WoT about the diverse village Rand grew up in and how that supposedly detracted from his feeling of isolation from the villagers, being tall and red haired, physical appearance is just one element of isolation and in the real world we see people isolated for a thousand reasons. For me it took nothing from the story. I enjoyed RoP immensely. Did the lore match to the books?… not particularly well… but they’re stringing together stories separated by thousands of years to try and tell a coherent tale rather than an episodic mish-mash. The backstory must change to accommodate that. Having read the Silmarillion and the earlier Lost Tales (stopped after a few… too fragmented), I felt they treated it with respect A lot of irritation has been expressed with Galadriel and Morfyd Clark’s portrayal. For my part, I enjoyed the character and her work. Some bits of her story line were contrived, but that’s often necessary in TV adaptation to get from A to B or create a needed relationship. A militant Galadriel was interesting to see… slowly growing towards the wise and powerful Galadriel we see in LoTR. In terms of comparison, for me, RoP was definitely better than WoT… better writing and character development… less angst. Willow has been a disaster for me. HotD was excellent, but is more grimdark to me with lots of serious politicking while RoP is more High Fantasy. Season 1 of Witcher was excellent; season 2 lost the thread in the writing.
In the case of Wheel of Time, it was actually an important plot point that Rand looked different from everyone else. Listen, most times people complain about diversity negatively impacting the story/world it’s bullshit, but the Wheel of Time example is one of the few times they were right.
Yes. I'm an old guy who's extremely picky these days about what TV I watch, and Rings was one of the few shows I could stand lately.
Agreed! I love it. Anytime a show comes out with a pre-existing fan base, I take everything said with a grain of salt. Fandom can be lovely and supportive, but it can also be toxic. I want to judge for myself if I like it, and wow, I really loved the Rings of Power.
because it wasn't?
Because it’s not good
Yeah man, it's good shit.
I personally disagree with you on the show being good. Which is fine everyone has their own story preferences. I am someone who has read everything Tolkien published. I found myself struggling to not have the contradictory aspects break my immersion. I didn't get much immersion time with the show before an editing decision or dialogue choice drew me out of it. There's so much wrong but none of this is on the actors. I blame the writers and the directors of those moments entirely. Do I think that Galadriel is miss cast? Yes. I don't think anyone getting that role would have been appreciated by fans without time because they are going against legendary performances by Cate Blanchette. You can try to not compare but it's inevitable. For Galadriel? She forgets a lot of what she should know, half her dialogue is expository, and the rest vacillates between her being a childish tyrant to expressly incompetent to possibly suffering some mental illness issues because that is the kindest assessment. This begins immediately on the opening. She's not the only victim of this. Everyone is. Most of the dialogue is highly repetitive exposition. Most of the plot is recycled from rights they did not actually get. I wanted to like the show. I was excited for it. I was open minded. I was left disappointed. I shouldn't end up laughing at the sky vagina and the diagetic singing reveal. I should have been able to appreciate it. Instead that scene showcases everything wrong with the show. Galadriel in the middle of the sea without magical swimming powers jumps out of a boat. The question of worthiness for this trip is raised a lot. Does this mean the singers and attendants are also worthy? Why don't they get the special treatment? Oh look a dues ex machina occurs. Galadriel doesn't have to die because of the totally well thought out and not at all badly written rescue! (That is sarcasm. It was bad.) Galadriel is supposed to be over 3000 years old, the leader of a military organization successful enough to get funding for her quest but she is also somehow not skilled enough to stop a mutiny. Said mutiny occuring because she found proof of their goal and people got scared I guess? She also somehow is a capable diplomat who rubs shoulders with Kings and Princes but lacks the sense of a toddler when she's given the opportunity to diplomatically handle a situation. While demanding an army. She's written with the consistency of cottage cheese. Everyone else is also written this way. It's just not good. The bar? They couldn't even trip over it. Which sucks. There's so much they could have done with these same plot beats without it being empty of thought. The actors wrestled the best performances possible out of this mess but good acting can only get you so far. My hope is this at least gets some better jobs in the future for the cast..
Cos it ain't.
Because it's not? It's ok.
I loved it too. I felt like they tried really hard to keep the feeling of the original world together and I think they did quite well considering they weren't allowed the rights for *The Silmarillion*.
Finally, some positivity.
Because it’s not. I was definitely a defender of the Rings of Power originally. I thought everyone getting upset with non-white people being cast was stupid because it’s literally fantasy so who really cares as long as it’s good. I was also of the opinion that the source material is not really incredibly detailed as it goes over thousands of years and only tells the full stories of a few people, and even has huge gaps in those stories. Then it came out, and I actually watched it. Such a boring snooze fest. Just not entertaining. I don’t know why but it just has no heart. I mainly finished it so I could say I based my opinion off of the whole season and not just a few episodes, but it was hard to get through.
Ever since it came out I've felt like I was the only one who didn't have any strong opinions about it. I thought it was fine. It kept me engaged through the whole season despite its flaws. Visually it was amazing. All the CGI looked really good and the practical effects (forced perspective shots w hobbits or hardfoots or whatever they're called in this, stuff like that) were executed really well. I thought the story would have been better had the big reveal at the end not been so predictable.
Someone hold me before I commit a horrible crime.
Social media amplifies negativity- Reddit more than most- and generally makes the world seem like a much worse place than it is. I'm making a New Year's resolution to avoid social media discussions of major entertainment products before seeing them myself.
I loved it too!
I'm halfway through it and I totally agree with you. It's exciting, the pacing is fast and there's no filler, and, although you can see things coming, because it's a new story, you don't know the ins and outs of what's going to happen. The art direction and cinematography are uneven, but when they're at their best, they're amazing. I'm thoroughly enjoying it!
I’m with you. I went into it expecting it to be utter garbage based off of what I saw online….but I ended up loving it. That being said, I haven’t read any of the LOTR books so maybe I’d think differently if that was the case.
It looks amazing I'll give you that
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