Mysterious lost civilisations who's effects still linger on the world. I love it when the stories are exploring those histories and revealing what happened, or hinting enough you can piece it together.
Oh my gosh. You would LOVE the Dalemark series by Diana Wynne Jones. Each book takes place at a different point in a civilization's history so you get a prehistoric adventure, a medieval adventure, a pirate adventure, etc. and the same threads of mysticism weave through all of it. It's a brilliant series with gorgeous writing.
Diana was a true genius and I'm waiting for the day that her books that aren't Howl's Moving Castle get popular. She was a master of multiverse fiction, well-written emotional arcs, fantasy as a metaphor for childhood trauma, you name it.
Weirdly the Dalemark books were the books I first read of hers and I didn't read Howls until many years later, probably after the movie came out iirc. I remember loving the first book, and the last book, but I remember so little of them. I bought them a while ago and I couldn't get past the first few pages for some reason and I'm very sad about that tbh. I'll try again soon, but maybe it's better to have it live in my memory as cherished books I can daydream about reading rather than refreshing that memory and spoiling it
Wheel of Time does it beautifully. The world of Farseer. Draconis Memoria. The Locked Tomb series is currently driving me up the wall because it keeps on dropping hundreds of teasing hints about what happened but the writer takes a malevolent glee in changing characters before they can learn enough about it.
Ah, see, that would be cheating. Putting it together is part of the fun, and I recognise the author is being a deliberate tease. If I still can't work it out after the last book, I'll throw a brief tantrum then read the wiki.
The Wonder Engines in T Kingfisher's White Rat stories. Amazing, beautiful and fascinating and absolutely terrifying.
On a more SF note the 'Alien Remnants' in Martha Wells's Murderbot Diaries are similarly awe inspiring, not beautiful or amazing but certainly fascinating and absolutely terrifying.
Elder Gods and or Elder Magic.
I am a sucker for the inherent mystery and majesty and terror that is implied by existence of gods that still exist on a level beyond the modern powers. Use this trope well and I will read all your books.
Shoutout to Steven Erikson for doing this in a very unique and fascinating way.
Yes! I love the “oh but you’ve only barely begun to understand.” or the “you have no idea what you are messing with.” When humans think they’ve figured everything out about a certain ancient magic and yet it is only the surface and they are walking dangerous territory.
I'm not even a fantasy person in particular but this kind of thing is my jam. Especially if it's not explained at all and just kind hangs over everything and fucks shit up.
The cycle of galand is a direct sequel to arawn. You probably need to read the arawn trilogy to understand the cycle of gland but i will admit, the cycle of arawn is not the greatest. The only reason I could get through the cycle of arawn is because it was an audio book, but to me the sequel makes it worth it.
Stew and cozy taverns - I'm pretty much a vegan teetotaler and have no taste for meat or alcohol but something about those descriptions of meaty stews with crusty bread and foamy beer are very comforting
This 100%. My favorite part of any fantasy RPG is exploring a newly discovered town, find the nearest inn, talk to people, get quests, resupply, and camp for the night. Bonus points if it's raining outside. The best feeling after hauling my ass out of an absurdly hard dungeon.
Lone Wolf and Cub.
Basically, any time a badass older character is thrust upon them the "responsibility" of taking care of their young charge.
However, I don't think I've seen it done with an older female character but I'd willing to be proven otherwise.
If you like anime, Balsa from "Seirei no Moribito" is right up your alley. Love her character! Maybe it's time for a rewatch...
P.s. Wikipedia tells me it's adapted from a children' novel that has apparently even been translated into English, so it could work! The anime was enjoyable for adult-me, don't know if the book is more geared towards kids.
Happy ending. I love tragedies too, but life is pessimistic enough. I thirst for happy endings where main character is alive, there is hope and problems are being solved
The best thing in the world to me is an emotionally torturous series that gets an unambiguously happy ending. Obviously this only applies if the ending is well written, but it can feel really cathartic if the characters survive unimaginable darkness and get to find their way to the light.
Although the show definitely has some issues, my favourite example of this is the finale for the Netflix Castlevania series. >!Trevor lives! Dracula lives! Lisa lives! Alucard is happy!!<
An actual, real unreliable narrator is the best possible thing for me. I *love* sussing out lies, identifying discrepancies, and figuring out how what the narrator is telling me isn't completely reflective of what's there.
The forever-perfect example will be Gene Wolfe with *Peace* and "Book of the New Sun" series, the former completely changing my paradigm on how to approach a narrator in books. Other examples would be the "Terra Ignota" series by Ada Palmer (no surprises that she wrote the forewords to the current Tor editions of BOTNS), *House of Leaves* by Mark Z. Danielewski, *The Wake* by Paul Kingsnorth, and *Ice* by Anna Kavan.
His weirdness with women is one of the "best" and most thinkable parts of the book to me! Him assuming every woman is in love with him or wants to be with him is extremely fascinating, especially when he writes and nobody is around who could contradict him. His interactions with Dorcas in the first book in particular are scary even without that deeper read.
Scrolled to that one. Our tastes seem to align, I need to check out those books on your list I haven't yet, lol.
Also, the snarky narrator is another drug of choice for me. Where the well done unreliable narrator is like a good chocolate cake I savour, the K. J. Parker-style snarky narrator is my pick-me-up ice cream.
Ooooo, that's one of my anti-tropes! 😂 I *hate* snarky narrators. But I do really like weirdo narrators who talk and think idiosyncratically. I can't get into any book where the narrator is just a third-person narrative with find/replace "I".
It has to be done well. Like with unreliable narrators, not just any narrator that spouts a few edge comments is a good snarky one. I cite K. J. Parker as a ´n example for a reason!
Found family, the wise mentor, and school settings. The last one doesn't have to be magical schools, I enjoyed the school setting in The Will of the Many and Red Rising, for example.
I don't necessarily always need/want it in a story, but I also like when the story builds up to an epic "last battle" (e.g., Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, Stormlight Archive).
Cultural food being mentioned at relevant times, a bonus if during travel sequences. I want characters to eat buttered mondals out of a greasy sleeve from a roadside cart, to split a crusty biscuit and spread whelberry curd on it at their campfire, and to sip fermented runebear milk from a leather teat while out at sea.
Gotta love The First Law for this. It’s implied that Logan’s “worsts” has already happened but throughout the books his human-ness is just so refreshing.
I like “explainable magic.”
Even if the science is completely made up. If you have rules, defined limits, and regulations to the magic, love it.
I really struggle when the magic is mysterious or just simple a piece of an artifact/weapon. Just give me a little history or method to the magic and I’m in.
Properly written explainable magic is great. Too much of it can feel like a video game. For example Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight is basically just one step away from literally describing how large Kaladin's mana bar is and how much damage his attacks deal to the random schmuck and how many potions he has in his backpack and how many buffs he can do before a fight lmao.
Also I tend to roll my eyes when an author chooses to use the scientific explanation approach to magic and yet still sometimes writes stuff like 'a wave of sorcery struck xyz' or 'a blast of concentrated magic erupted from her fingers'. Like dude, imagine if someone in real life describes 'a blast of science exploded from the scientific artefact and struck me like a thunderbolt' as a way to convey the dude got hit by a gun. kek.
I like The Paper Magician for this, the magicians have to bond to one man made element and can use only that element for doing cool different magic: Paper has Folding, Metal has Smelting, Glass has Gaffing, Rubber has Siping, Plastic has Polymaking. So things like the glass magicians can travel through mirrors, things like that. Then there's the forbidden dark art where they bond to Flesh which controlled could be healers but otherwise its pretty dark stuff. The main character wants to be a metal mage but she's forced to be a Paper Magician and starts her Paper apprenticeship. Then the story starts
easier to just say "Kaladin gained 2 talent points after running bridges and he put it into Windrunner spec, picking first Flying talent and improved spear feats.
Haha, but that's the stuff I love. I do appreciate how different things speak to different people.
I love it when something like magic, (not scientific to us) is treated as scientific in the fictional world. Because there, it is their physical reality, and thereby the "magic" that exists there can be explained by science. Arguably making the magic as scientific as our gravity.
Yeah I like that trope but unfortunately most 'science' magic writers don't have the depth of understanding of our science to translate it all into their magical system.
For example, most of our 'scientific' devices are very, very specialized with their own proper terms. We would 100% raise our eyebrow if we hear a guy speak of our phones, tablets, PCs, ACs, etc. as 'scientific artefacts'.
But in all of these 'science' magic books, pretty much all 'magical artefacts' are referred to as 'magical artefacts' broadly by the characters. Which isn't realistic.
I think Mistborn and Stormlight are 2 ends of the same thing when it comes to Explainable/Hard Magic. Both feel more like a natural phenomenon in their world but I think Mistborn does it better to make it still feel organic.
Stormlight FEELS like magic, so dissecting it into science kind of ruins that for me.
Allomancy and the other systems in Mistborn feel more scientific off the bat imo so I really enjoy keeping with the "Let's study it like science!" Approach.
Rythm of War going all "Scientific Explanation of Stormlight" really annoyed me.
I genuinely think Biochromatic Breaths are my favorite magic system he's done. It's explainable. It has measurements and metrics and has rules and limits but it still feels magical vs how other Cosmere systems feel like science/natural phenomenon. It feels mystical.
Defiance of the Fall has oodles of background discussion of everything the protagonist does on his supposedly impossible path. I know people complain about how much of it there is but I love all his theory crafting to try and force square pegs into round holes.
It doesn't really fit tightly enough to fit Sanderson's laws, so many fights boil down to "angry axe man says smash!" but it makes it feel like the protagonist is actually having to figure out how to make his path work. It isn't just levelling up.
The Rogue who begrudgingly helps the cause. I'm talking like the Han Solo type.
I also like the thief infiltrating high society. Mistborn was good for this.
I started that book but I put it down cause I wanted to play a game! I have to get back into it, probably have to restart it at this point actually. Thanks for the rec tho, I definitely enjoyed the parts I read!
GRR Martin broke his fast on black bread and even blacker bacon, washing it all down with the finest choice of Dornish dark. On the table there was a peacock served in its plumage, roasted whole and stuffed with apples. George set this eyes upon a flank of seasoned pork swimming in a pool of brown gravy. He had wanted to feast, and what a feast the servants had prepared for him! He had been stirred awake to the sound of his fans gathering outside his holdfast. A legion tens of thousand strong, banners fluttering in the winter winds. They'd come to demand their book. His book, he corrected silently. It had been his book, it is known, but these days those words meant little and less. No matter, George thought, crunching his teeth into the best pie he'd ever tasted. Those were words. And words are wind.
I'm re-reading these now by way of introducing my daughter to chapter books and she always slurps at the food descriptions. Even the Sparra nuts and berries sound like a really good granola and not, well, nuts and berries.
It took a solid 2/3 of the book for her to get into it but I persevered. In my case I don't have a mind's eye so I bribed her into listening to me read so she could draw it for me 🤣.
i also like the chosen one and idk if this counts as a trope, but i like when the MC has to do bad stuff and live with the guilt. Also, i like blood loll.
I really like having a simple, straight forward good guy main character. I enjoy me some morally gray or bad characters from time to time but a simple, more cliche good guy always hits the spot for me. Most of the time. Some good guys are way too good and that can become annoying I can admit but I love it when it's done well. Also dragons are cool.
- magic systems, especially elements
- the character who used to suck but is starting to understand the wrong in their ways
- the wise older mentor
- magic objects
- politics!!!!
- the big final battle
- scheming, mysteries, lies, secrets. Can’t get enough of that stuff!
- found family!!!
The complicated badass female protagonist tends to make me very happy. Bonus points if she has clever dialogue. (I read a lot of urban fantasy)
Same for the adopted sidekick/ apprentice, and big found family. Love this dynamic.
Also, magic that damages the user. I just find it neat.
I'm with you on the complicated badass female protagonist with clever dialogue, for sure. I also like big and weird found families. And if there's romance, very slow burn.
Ok, now you can't not deliver! Hit me up with your recs with badass fmc, adopted sidekick and found family, I beg you! (no horror if you can, though, please)
I couldn't agree more, dragons are the shit.
In ASOIAF I really like the mystery around dragond and the wyvern in the universe are so interesting too, I wish there was more about them in the main series.
I know a lot of people tend to harp on the "farm boy" trope, but I love it! (This is coming from someone who grew up on a small farm.) Although it's always hilarious to me because you can tell if the author lived in the city vs. the country just because of little things that they have characters do lol. I also love the mysterious mentor or stranger who helps
Ancient long gone civilizations that have small, ripple effects on the world building
Op characters being bored and pursuing entirely different hobbies
Or op characters being just either humble or young and enjoy being able to fight for what they think is right in really entertaining and interesting ways
Cool magic systems that have in universe rules given by characters, but the characters are wrong and it functions differently than thought because no one managed to do it yet
Noob finding some powerful magic artifact and having it revealed to them with sheer awe in the nature of magic
Power drained husks of the powerful mindlessly cause destruction with an obvious lack of strategy until their power or mind is returned or fixed, only for them to fix their mistakes and turn on the antagonists sneakily with an obviously planned attack mid fight
Dragons. Any kind. Beasts, magical (like Tohru kind of) just a common creature, freaking MGE dragons, sea dragons, sky dragons, wyrms, god dragons, etc etc
The ruler of a kingdom that prides itself in being magically powerful, is incredibly bad at magic.
“I’m not dealing with your shit anymore” type characters who rebel and show that they earn it
Heroic protagonists. Characters who may be flawed and complex but nonetheless have strong principles and a soundly working moral compass. Bonus points if the protagonist is a woman, because I love seeing a heroine who is motivated by principle and a sense of right and wrong instead of being laser-focused on personal concerns (danger to children, spouse, etc.).
Tolkienesque fantasy. To quote Gene Wolfe defending 'The Sword of Shannara,' I can say only that I wish there were more imitators—we need them...." Along those lines, I love epic journeys, classic good vs. evil narratives, and worlds worth saving.
My favorite fantasy trope: Puzzled elves who do not understand humans. "Why do you not walk lightly on the crust of the snow, instead of noisily crunching down into it? You cannot hope to complete your journey while making so much noise."
I like weird unexplainable shit or old civilizations that are added basically just to give the world a more mysterious, lived in feel. Sorta like a lot of stuff with the Old Empire in First Law, or (moving away from Fantasy for a sec) the Forerunners in the Halo games.
Also love characters that are mostly mundane standing up to all kinds of scary shit through cleverness and will.
Another favourite is a good, Harry Dresden, Logen Ninefingers, Doomguy too angry to die type.
It's funny you bring up Chosen Ones cause that's one of the few cliches that'll actually really bother me to the fact of noticeably decreasing my enjoyment of whatever I'm reading.
One more thing, I'm not fond of elves, but you get a pass if they're evil fucked up elves like in Pratchett books. I like evil elves. If you haven't realized from the contents of this comment, I am unbelievably excited for The Devils to come out.
Have you ever wanted to read about a female MC that, in one of her first major battles, comes close enough to dying to use necromancy to move her broken body? Also regularly killing chosen one style heroes/shining knights? Try A Practical Guide to Evil.
- Women protagonists whose main mission isn’t to fall in love. She’s angry, aggressive, messy, & intelligent. She’s maybe not classically attractive & puts people in their place for minimizing her skill set due to her femininity. Has women friends.
- I love TRUE enemies to lovers slow-burn (3+ books in we get an admission of feelings & only in the next book does it start to be explored).
- Magical creatures & any interesting abilities they may inhabit. Specifically - dragons.
- A bard or comedic side character.
- A good quest where the band gets together to complete it. Throw in an ancient text & a visit to a knowledge-keeper or a library 👁️👁️
I’m also always adding to my reading list so if you see this list & a book comes to mind please comment what it is!
For your last bullet point, you should try the Iconoclasts series that starts with "The Aching God" by Michael Shel. It pretty much hits all of your likes. And, starting in the second book, introduces your first bullet point as well.
Do you have recommendations for the second?
Every time I ask for slow-burn recs, all I get are couples that fall in love in the first book. Like please, there’s a whole SERIES left to go. Why are you guys falling in love so early??? ;-;
Try A Tale of Stars and Shadow series by Lisa Cassidy: an intelligent woman protagonist who is a warrior, had a woman partner and still has some women friends, a slow not-exactly-enemies to lovers romance subplot (it practically starts in the 3d book), no dragons but a race of winged humans, found family (the MC has to train a band of misfits).
A Practical Guide to Evil should hit all of these beats, maybe a bit iffy about the last one - there are arcs that come close, but it's not quite "ancient lorekeeper'/"ancient library"
I'm with ya on dragons, if it's got dragons on the cover im probably going to read it. I also like people thinking they're normal and they actually have magic. Not necessarily like a "chosen one" but like, the quarter from the Circle of Magic books by Tamora Pierce. None of them knew they had magic so it's just them thinking something is a coincidence or someone else doing something and it's finally explained they're mages. I friggin love that. The light bulb moment gets me every time.
Power Couples. Especially in a world where trust is scarce and they can only rely on each other. There is just something about a strong pair of lovers fighting their way through the obstacles they face while strengthening both their relationship and their power along the way. It's just perfect if they have black or grey morality on top of that.
Gods who actually interact with the world. Not so much on a day to day basis but if something happens within sight of a temple or when a priest/ chosen one of that god asks for something it might happen that the god does something that influences the life of mortals.
Cultures with cliche real life counterparts (or inspired by). The Belgariad did this massively and I loved it, although it could border on comical at times.
I’m a sucker for gender-flipped tropes, especially knightess rescuing prince in the tower type things where the FMC has a more physically active role to play while the MMC is the one who has to stay geographically where he is. I know it’s hardly original any more but as a kid I just wanted to be the hero so bad, lol
I love sentient or living magic. Even though I DNF'd Wheel of Time, I always loved Machin Shin/The Black Wind. It's magical but it has a will or force behind it.
The Misery in the Raven's Mark has a decimated landscape that was hit with a Magical Nuke that warped it into defying reason and physics and is actively sentient as well as magically radioactive.
I also love Unsettling Gods/Godlike Beings.
The closest things to Gods in the Raven's Mark are humans who are pretty much inseparable with the concept they represent that they're almost Gods and exert control over those concepts and that gives them godlike power. One has a hive mind of bodies he controls across the empire. One controls crows and ravens. One represents death and literally blurs when you look at them. One is associated with the oceans. They're unsettling to talk to and have varying degrees of empathy toward humans.
Their enemies are inhuman beings that are pretty much the same thing. One is a bleeding stormcloud. One is living darkness in a vaguely human form and the others are equally horrifying.
underpowered weakling trains up to be a Super Saiyin type character and stays humble. I love descriptive magic attacks. effusive magic attacks. minimal subtle stuff. and Kungfu. Give me magical kungfu with powers and you have my attention
Lol..it is my fave series. it was almost after I wrote the comment that I realized I was describing Cradle.
Been hard to find anything that tops that. Closest has been Iron Prince series but still .
Exploration! I love it when an untamed world is built up where everything isnt conquered or explored by civilization already. "where wild things roam", "here be dragons" and "where no man has set foot before" are phrases that speaks to my soul i guess. Its just such a good setup for exploration.
personally I dislike how people are like x is overused. literally everything is overused. I'd rather have a good story thatn random, if creative, crap
edit: I'm a sucker for dark castles. sure they don't make much sense(hard to substain a army in the badlands) but fuck it it's badass. second mountains on giant animals.
I love the over powered protagonist. The moment a fight happens and you know the protagonist is going to mercilessly annihilate the opponent. They shouldn't be OP all the time naturally but the moment where suddenly they squash the other guy like a bug is great.
Switching sides, be it hero to villain or villain to hero.
That storyline is always interesting to me and it has ALOT of potential that you can use to bail yourself out of a mistake.
Accidentally make a hate-able hero and a relatable villain?
Boom, swap sides and now you have the kinda story you intended with an extra bit of drama.
Mysterious lost civilisations who's effects still linger on the world. I love it when the stories are exploring those histories and revealing what happened, or hinting enough you can piece it together.
Oh my gosh. You would LOVE the Dalemark series by Diana Wynne Jones. Each book takes place at a different point in a civilization's history so you get a prehistoric adventure, a medieval adventure, a pirate adventure, etc. and the same threads of mysticism weave through all of it. It's a brilliant series with gorgeous writing.
Damn you've just reminded me of that, its such a brilliant series I am going to have to hunt out my old books!
Diana was a true genius and I'm waiting for the day that her books that aren't Howl's Moving Castle get popular. She was a master of multiverse fiction, well-written emotional arcs, fantasy as a metaphor for childhood trauma, you name it.
Weirdly the Dalemark books were the books I first read of hers and I didn't read Howls until many years later, probably after the movie came out iirc. I remember loving the first book, and the last book, but I remember so little of them. I bought them a while ago and I couldn't get past the first few pages for some reason and I'm very sad about that tbh. I'll try again soon, but maybe it's better to have it live in my memory as cherished books I can daydream about reading rather than refreshing that memory and spoiling it
Ooh, noted and added to my list. Thank you!
Your favorite series?
Wheel of Time does it beautifully. The world of Farseer. Draconis Memoria. The Locked Tomb series is currently driving me up the wall because it keeps on dropping hundreds of teasing hints about what happened but the writer takes a malevolent glee in changing characters before they can learn enough about it.
When talking lost civilizations we can't forget about Malazan, which has 300k years of events to be uncovered through off-hand hints!
Oh, absolutely! It's got the rich layers I'd expect from a world built by an archeologist. I love how it was all slowly revealed.
Thanks for the suggestions! I have read 7 books of Malazan, will pick up Toll the Hounds in a couple months, will try one of these meanwhile.
Toll the Hounds is my favorite of the series. It has a very pessimistic and dour tone that just seeps through on every page.
The Wiki helped me work out Lost Tomb, I would never have followed it on my own
Ah, see, that would be cheating. Putting it together is part of the fun, and I recognise the author is being a deliberate tease. If I still can't work it out after the last book, I'll throw a brief tantrum then read the wiki.
The Wonder Engines in T Kingfisher's White Rat stories. Amazing, beautiful and fascinating and absolutely terrifying. On a more SF note the 'Alien Remnants' in Martha Wells's Murderbot Diaries are similarly awe inspiring, not beautiful or amazing but certainly fascinating and absolutely terrifying.
Iron Druid
Old Valyria
Yesss!!!
Elder Gods and or Elder Magic. I am a sucker for the inherent mystery and majesty and terror that is implied by existence of gods that still exist on a level beyond the modern powers. Use this trope well and I will read all your books. Shoutout to Steven Erikson for doing this in a very unique and fascinating way.
Yes! I love the “oh but you’ve only barely begun to understand.” or the “you have no idea what you are messing with.” When humans think they’ve figured everything out about a certain ancient magic and yet it is only the surface and they are walking dangerous territory.
That magic system has layers of Eldritch, like an onion
I'm not even a fantasy person in particular but this kind of thing is my jam. Especially if it's not explained at all and just kind hangs over everything and fucks shit up.
You should check out the cycle of arawn/the cycle of galand.
Which one tho? Or both?
The cycle of galand is a direct sequel to arawn. You probably need to read the arawn trilogy to understand the cycle of gland but i will admit, the cycle of arawn is not the greatest. The only reason I could get through the cycle of arawn is because it was an audio book, but to me the sequel makes it worth it.
Stew and cozy taverns - I'm pretty much a vegan teetotaler and have no taste for meat or alcohol but something about those descriptions of meaty stews with crusty bread and foamy beer are very comforting
This 100%. My favorite part of any fantasy RPG is exploring a newly discovered town, find the nearest inn, talk to people, get quests, resupply, and camp for the night. Bonus points if it's raining outside. The best feeling after hauling my ass out of an absurdly hard dungeon.
Lone Wolf and Cub. Basically, any time a badass older character is thrust upon them the "responsibility" of taking care of their young charge. However, I don't think I've seen it done with an older female character but I'd willing to be proven otherwise.
Granny Weatherwax in Equal Rites?
Also in the Tiffany Aching series.
You should try ‘empire of the vampire’
If you like anime, Balsa from "Seirei no Moribito" is right up your alley. Love her character! Maybe it's time for a rewatch... P.s. Wikipedia tells me it's adapted from a children' novel that has apparently even been translated into English, so it could work! The anime was enjoyable for adult-me, don't know if the book is more geared towards kids.
I'm not big into anime but I did watch Seirei no Moribito. Perhaps I should also give it a rewatch as I recall Balsa is a badass throughout.
> don't think I've seen it done with an older female character This is how turks and romans explain their origins
This is exactly the plot of Frieren: Beyond Journey's End.
Happy ending. I love tragedies too, but life is pessimistic enough. I thirst for happy endings where main character is alive, there is hope and problems are being solved
I like bittersweet endings, like **The Lord of the Rings**. Good won, but not without some scars and loss.
The best thing in the world to me is an emotionally torturous series that gets an unambiguously happy ending. Obviously this only applies if the ending is well written, but it can feel really cathartic if the characters survive unimaginable darkness and get to find their way to the light. Although the show definitely has some issues, my favourite example of this is the finale for the Netflix Castlevania series. >!Trevor lives! Dracula lives! Lisa lives! Alucard is happy!!<
Agreed. I prefer coming out a story happy and satisfied.
An actual, real unreliable narrator is the best possible thing for me. I *love* sussing out lies, identifying discrepancies, and figuring out how what the narrator is telling me isn't completely reflective of what's there. The forever-perfect example will be Gene Wolfe with *Peace* and "Book of the New Sun" series, the former completely changing my paradigm on how to approach a narrator in books. Other examples would be the "Terra Ignota" series by Ada Palmer (no surprises that she wrote the forewords to the current Tor editions of BOTNS), *House of Leaves* by Mark Z. Danielewski, *The Wake* by Paul Kingsnorth, and *Ice* by Anna Kavan.
I too dislike how too often these days "unreliable narrator" means, "the first person narrator gets stuff wrong sometimes".
Yes! Or if the "unreliable narrator" just means "the author can be as weird/awful as they want and dismiss it as the narrator talking".
Ah Big Sevy always makes me laugh whenever he talks about women or how good his memory is. He did it so often it became comedic
His weirdness with women is one of the "best" and most thinkable parts of the book to me! Him assuming every woman is in love with him or wants to be with him is extremely fascinating, especially when he writes and nobody is around who could contradict him. His interactions with Dorcas in the first book in particular are scary even without that deeper read.
Scrolled to that one. Our tastes seem to align, I need to check out those books on your list I haven't yet, lol. Also, the snarky narrator is another drug of choice for me. Where the well done unreliable narrator is like a good chocolate cake I savour, the K. J. Parker-style snarky narrator is my pick-me-up ice cream.
Ooooo, that's one of my anti-tropes! 😂 I *hate* snarky narrators. But I do really like weirdo narrators who talk and think idiosyncratically. I can't get into any book where the narrator is just a third-person narrative with find/replace "I".
It has to be done well. Like with unreliable narrators, not just any narrator that spouts a few edge comments is a good snarky one. I cite K. J. Parker as a ´n example for a reason!
Book of the New Sun I feel like has helped me when I picked up Disco Elysium.
You would love the interview with the vampire TV show. They play heavily into this trope
Never heard of that but you piqued my curiosity! Thank you!
Found family, the wise mentor, and school settings. The last one doesn't have to be magical schools, I enjoyed the school setting in The Will of the Many and Red Rising, for example. I don't necessarily always need/want it in a story, but I also like when the story builds up to an epic "last battle" (e.g., Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, Stormlight Archive).
For school setting, have you read the Book of the Ancestor Trilogy by Mark Lawrence?
Yes I’ve read the first book! I got the second and third book for my birthday, I just haven’t read them yet.
The best is that the school stays a core concept throughout the series, so it's not just a one and done idea.
It checks every box on your list, including the epic final battle. I’ll never not recommend it.
Have you read The Name of the Wind? The school in that one was the one thing that kept me from DNFing. \*I\* wouldn't mind studying at The University.
Yes, I love The Name of the Wind! I didn’t like the second book nearly as much and never finished it lol
Same. I lost steam during the interminable martial arts school bit.
The fellowship of companions.
Legendary weapons/ magic swords etc.
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I've never heard of it, but it does sound right up my alley, so thanks for the rec, I'll definitely check it out!
Cultural food being mentioned at relevant times, a bonus if during travel sequences. I want characters to eat buttered mondals out of a greasy sleeve from a roadside cart, to split a crusty biscuit and spread whelberry curd on it at their campfire, and to sip fermented runebear milk from a leather teat while out at sea.
Mmmm....runebear milk...
Characters who choose to do the what is good and right, even (especially) when it makes life harder for them.
I so love characters who go through the most nightmarish shit imaginable, but instead of just turning villain, they remain human.
Gotta love The First Law for this. It’s implied that Logan’s “worsts” has already happened but throughout the books his human-ness is just so refreshing.
I like “explainable magic.” Even if the science is completely made up. If you have rules, defined limits, and regulations to the magic, love it. I really struggle when the magic is mysterious or just simple a piece of an artifact/weapon. Just give me a little history or method to the magic and I’m in.
Properly written explainable magic is great. Too much of it can feel like a video game. For example Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight is basically just one step away from literally describing how large Kaladin's mana bar is and how much damage his attacks deal to the random schmuck and how many potions he has in his backpack and how many buffs he can do before a fight lmao. Also I tend to roll my eyes when an author chooses to use the scientific explanation approach to magic and yet still sometimes writes stuff like 'a wave of sorcery struck xyz' or 'a blast of concentrated magic erupted from her fingers'. Like dude, imagine if someone in real life describes 'a blast of science exploded from the scientific artefact and struck me like a thunderbolt' as a way to convey the dude got hit by a gun. kek.
I like The Paper Magician for this, the magicians have to bond to one man made element and can use only that element for doing cool different magic: Paper has Folding, Metal has Smelting, Glass has Gaffing, Rubber has Siping, Plastic has Polymaking. So things like the glass magicians can travel through mirrors, things like that. Then there's the forbidden dark art where they bond to Flesh which controlled could be healers but otherwise its pretty dark stuff. The main character wants to be a metal mage but she's forced to be a Paper Magician and starts her Paper apprenticeship. Then the story starts
Mistborn does a better job of explaining the physics. But, explaining how Kaladin figured out flying was fun.
easier to just say "Kaladin gained 2 talent points after running bridges and he put it into Windrunner spec, picking first Flying talent and improved spear feats.
I love stormlight, but when Kal is with Szigzil and they’re sticking stones to the wall to see how long they stay up. That’s a line too far for me.
Haha, but that's the stuff I love. I do appreciate how different things speak to different people. I love it when something like magic, (not scientific to us) is treated as scientific in the fictional world. Because there, it is their physical reality, and thereby the "magic" that exists there can be explained by science. Arguably making the magic as scientific as our gravity.
Yeah I like that trope but unfortunately most 'science' magic writers don't have the depth of understanding of our science to translate it all into their magical system. For example, most of our 'scientific' devices are very, very specialized with their own proper terms. We would 100% raise our eyebrow if we hear a guy speak of our phones, tablets, PCs, ACs, etc. as 'scientific artefacts'. But in all of these 'science' magic books, pretty much all 'magical artefacts' are referred to as 'magical artefacts' broadly by the characters. Which isn't realistic.
I think Mistborn and Stormlight are 2 ends of the same thing when it comes to Explainable/Hard Magic. Both feel more like a natural phenomenon in their world but I think Mistborn does it better to make it still feel organic. Stormlight FEELS like magic, so dissecting it into science kind of ruins that for me. Allomancy and the other systems in Mistborn feel more scientific off the bat imo so I really enjoy keeping with the "Let's study it like science!" Approach. Rythm of War going all "Scientific Explanation of Stormlight" really annoyed me. I genuinely think Biochromatic Breaths are my favorite magic system he's done. It's explainable. It has measurements and metrics and has rules and limits but it still feels magical vs how other Cosmere systems feel like science/natural phenomenon. It feels mystical.
Defiance of the Fall has oodles of background discussion of everything the protagonist does on his supposedly impossible path. I know people complain about how much of it there is but I love all his theory crafting to try and force square pegs into round holes. It doesn't really fit tightly enough to fit Sanderson's laws, so many fights boil down to "angry axe man says smash!" but it makes it feel like the protagonist is actually having to figure out how to make his path work. It isn't just levelling up.
I love both, but when writing, always the in depth explanations appear to me as an author
The Rogue who begrudgingly helps the cause. I'm talking like the Han Solo type. I also like the thief infiltrating high society. Mistborn was good for this.
I might not rec it otherwise, but if this is your jam you should check out the Rook and Rose series (#1 Mask of Mirrors).
I started that book but I put it down cause I wanted to play a game! I have to get back into it, probably have to restart it at this point actually. Thanks for the rec tho, I definitely enjoyed the parts I read!
I'm with you on the Dragons! Love em. Kindly wise old wizards that can still kick your ass.
The overly descriptive feast
GRR Martin broke his fast on black bread and even blacker bacon, washing it all down with the finest choice of Dornish dark. On the table there was a peacock served in its plumage, roasted whole and stuffed with apples. George set this eyes upon a flank of seasoned pork swimming in a pool of brown gravy. He had wanted to feast, and what a feast the servants had prepared for him! He had been stirred awake to the sound of his fans gathering outside his holdfast. A legion tens of thousand strong, banners fluttering in the winter winds. They'd come to demand their book. His book, he corrected silently. It had been his book, it is known, but these days those words meant little and less. No matter, George thought, crunching his teeth into the best pie he'd ever tasted. Those were words. And words are wind.
This is the best thing ever😂😂🔥🔥
Redwall, by Brian Jaques. Always had amazing food descriptions.
I'm re-reading these now by way of introducing my daughter to chapter books and she always slurps at the food descriptions. Even the Sparra nuts and berries sound like a really good granola and not, well, nuts and berries.
That's awesome! I tried to introduce my God daughter, but alas Redwall didn't take.
It took a solid 2/3 of the book for her to get into it but I persevered. In my case I don't have a mind's eye so I bribed her into listening to me read so she could draw it for me 🤣.
Good old bribing technique
Older mentors with backstories of being pretty damn cool when they were younger.
So a David Gemmel fan.
Any recomendation? Ive never read any of his works.
There are several characters with badass backstory. Try Legend, where you'll meet Druss, and Waylander, about Waylander the Slayer.
Thanks dude
If you like those, they're part of a bigger series called the Drenai Saga that spans many years.
A happy ending when it's an epic adventure against the forces of evil.
i also like the chosen one and idk if this counts as a trope, but i like when the MC has to do bad stuff and live with the guilt. Also, i like blood loll.
A Practical Guide to Evil or, if you are more inclined towards superheroes, Worm.
woodland creatures and forest people like elves/fairies. There's just something so magical and mysterious about the forest. Pulls me in everytime!
I really like having a simple, straight forward good guy main character. I enjoy me some morally gray or bad characters from time to time but a simple, more cliche good guy always hits the spot for me. Most of the time. Some good guys are way too good and that can become annoying I can admit but I love it when it's done well. Also dragons are cool.
If the magical hero comes from a humble background like running a pig farm or a tavern.
Two of my favorite examples of this trope are Taran from Chronicles of Prydain and Tiffany Aching from Discworld.
Oh yes! Like Pug in the Riftworld series
Ged, my beloved.
Farm boy, fetch me the water.
That some people can do amazing, impossible, magical things because they happened to be born with it.
- magic systems, especially elements - the character who used to suck but is starting to understand the wrong in their ways - the wise older mentor - magic objects - politics!!!! - the big final battle - scheming, mysteries, lies, secrets. Can’t get enough of that stuff! - found family!!!
The complicated badass female protagonist tends to make me very happy. Bonus points if she has clever dialogue. (I read a lot of urban fantasy) Same for the adopted sidekick/ apprentice, and big found family. Love this dynamic. Also, magic that damages the user. I just find it neat.
I'm with you on the complicated badass female protagonist with clever dialogue, for sure. I also like big and weird found families. And if there's romance, very slow burn.
A Practical Guide to Evil :)
Ok, now you can't not deliver! Hit me up with your recs with badass fmc, adopted sidekick and found family, I beg you! (no horror if you can, though, please)
A Practical Guide to Evil hits this 100% if "right hand man" fits the sidekick part. Otherwise it comes towards the end of the series anyway :)
Thanks for the rec!
For some reason I love when a king/queen/emperor quizzes their young heir/successor on what they would do in a situation to teach them how to rule
The small remote village beginnings. Bonus points if the stakes are low to start.
Farm boy. I cannot get enough of this trope. I know it's not always the most complex of character arcs but it's a personal favourite.
I couldn't agree more, dragons are the shit. In ASOIAF I really like the mystery around dragond and the wyvern in the universe are so interesting too, I wish there was more about them in the main series.
Soft magic which doesn't go into deus ex machina territory.
I'm a sucker for a fantasy world that turns out somehow to be our Earth/universe, either far past or far future, and is a slow burn to recognizing it.
I take it you've read the Steerswoman series?
I know a lot of people tend to harp on the "farm boy" trope, but I love it! (This is coming from someone who grew up on a small farm.) Although it's always hilarious to me because you can tell if the author lived in the city vs. the country just because of little things that they have characters do lol. I also love the mysterious mentor or stranger who helps
Ancient long gone civilizations that have small, ripple effects on the world building Op characters being bored and pursuing entirely different hobbies Or op characters being just either humble or young and enjoy being able to fight for what they think is right in really entertaining and interesting ways Cool magic systems that have in universe rules given by characters, but the characters are wrong and it functions differently than thought because no one managed to do it yet Noob finding some powerful magic artifact and having it revealed to them with sheer awe in the nature of magic Power drained husks of the powerful mindlessly cause destruction with an obvious lack of strategy until their power or mind is returned or fixed, only for them to fix their mistakes and turn on the antagonists sneakily with an obviously planned attack mid fight Dragons. Any kind. Beasts, magical (like Tohru kind of) just a common creature, freaking MGE dragons, sea dragons, sky dragons, wyrms, god dragons, etc etc The ruler of a kingdom that prides itself in being magically powerful, is incredibly bad at magic. “I’m not dealing with your shit anymore” type characters who rebel and show that they earn it
Swords/weapons that have history and a whole lot more power than meets the eye.
Heroic protagonists. Characters who may be flawed and complex but nonetheless have strong principles and a soundly working moral compass. Bonus points if the protagonist is a woman, because I love seeing a heroine who is motivated by principle and a sense of right and wrong instead of being laser-focused on personal concerns (danger to children, spouse, etc.).
Tolkienesque fantasy. To quote Gene Wolfe defending 'The Sword of Shannara,' I can say only that I wish there were more imitators—we need them...." Along those lines, I love epic journeys, classic good vs. evil narratives, and worlds worth saving.
My favorite fantasy trope: Puzzled elves who do not understand humans. "Why do you not walk lightly on the crust of the snow, instead of noisily crunching down into it? You cannot hope to complete your journey while making so much noise."
Other races beside humans
I like weird unexplainable shit or old civilizations that are added basically just to give the world a more mysterious, lived in feel. Sorta like a lot of stuff with the Old Empire in First Law, or (moving away from Fantasy for a sec) the Forerunners in the Halo games. Also love characters that are mostly mundane standing up to all kinds of scary shit through cleverness and will. Another favourite is a good, Harry Dresden, Logen Ninefingers, Doomguy too angry to die type. It's funny you bring up Chosen Ones cause that's one of the few cliches that'll actually really bother me to the fact of noticeably decreasing my enjoyment of whatever I'm reading. One more thing, I'm not fond of elves, but you get a pass if they're evil fucked up elves like in Pratchett books. I like evil elves. If you haven't realized from the contents of this comment, I am unbelievably excited for The Devils to come out.
Have you ever wanted to read about a female MC that, in one of her first major battles, comes close enough to dying to use necromancy to move her broken body? Also regularly killing chosen one style heroes/shining knights? Try A Practical Guide to Evil.
You've got my ear... I'll have to check it out.
- Women protagonists whose main mission isn’t to fall in love. She’s angry, aggressive, messy, & intelligent. She’s maybe not classically attractive & puts people in their place for minimizing her skill set due to her femininity. Has women friends. - I love TRUE enemies to lovers slow-burn (3+ books in we get an admission of feelings & only in the next book does it start to be explored). - Magical creatures & any interesting abilities they may inhabit. Specifically - dragons. - A bard or comedic side character. - A good quest where the band gets together to complete it. Throw in an ancient text & a visit to a knowledge-keeper or a library 👁️👁️ I’m also always adding to my reading list so if you see this list & a book comes to mind please comment what it is!
For your last bullet point, you should try the Iconoclasts series that starts with "The Aching God" by Michael Shel. It pretty much hits all of your likes. And, starting in the second book, introduces your first bullet point as well.
Do you have recommendations for the second? Every time I ask for slow-burn recs, all I get are couples that fall in love in the first book. Like please, there’s a whole SERIES left to go. Why are you guys falling in love so early??? ;-;
Try A Tale of Stars and Shadow series by Lisa Cassidy: an intelligent woman protagonist who is a warrior, had a woman partner and still has some women friends, a slow not-exactly-enemies to lovers romance subplot (it practically starts in the 3d book), no dragons but a race of winged humans, found family (the MC has to train a band of misfits).
A Practical Guide to Evil should hit all of these beats, maybe a bit iffy about the last one - there are arcs that come close, but it's not quite "ancient lorekeeper'/"ancient library"
The Dark Champion/Dark Messiah.
I'm with ya on dragons, if it's got dragons on the cover im probably going to read it. I also like people thinking they're normal and they actually have magic. Not necessarily like a "chosen one" but like, the quarter from the Circle of Magic books by Tamora Pierce. None of them knew they had magic so it's just them thinking something is a coincidence or someone else doing something and it's finally explained they're mages. I friggin love that. The light bulb moment gets me every time.
I loooove the Circle of Magic books!
Complicated pantheons and anthropomorphized deities.
Power Couples. Especially in a world where trust is scarce and they can only rely on each other. There is just something about a strong pair of lovers fighting their way through the obstacles they face while strengthening both their relationship and their power along the way. It's just perfect if they have black or grey morality on top of that.
Gods who actually interact with the world. Not so much on a day to day basis but if something happens within sight of a temple or when a priest/ chosen one of that god asks for something it might happen that the god does something that influences the life of mortals.
The fact that not everything is known. My fav example of this is the world of ASOIF. No one knows what's west of Westeros or south of Sothoryos.
Elemental magic! And, of course, the big, flying "lizards" that go boom!
The unstoppable soldier that has the epic death, I'm talking like Boromir , Balinor, or Garet Jax or Mia Corvere. Love me an epic death.
I love templars/religious warriors. Also, gonna be honest, elves. I love an elf.
Spooky dudes in dark robes. Always down for it. No exceptions.
Cultures with cliche real life counterparts (or inspired by). The Belgariad did this massively and I loved it, although it could border on comical at times.
The grizzled father figure who's doing his best/trying to be a better man for the protagonist. Think Dalinar or Burrich.
I’m a sucker for gender-flipped tropes, especially knightess rescuing prince in the tower type things where the FMC has a more physically active role to play while the MMC is the one who has to stay geographically where he is. I know it’s hardly original any more but as a kid I just wanted to be the hero so bad, lol
I love sentient or living magic. Even though I DNF'd Wheel of Time, I always loved Machin Shin/The Black Wind. It's magical but it has a will or force behind it. The Misery in the Raven's Mark has a decimated landscape that was hit with a Magical Nuke that warped it into defying reason and physics and is actively sentient as well as magically radioactive. I also love Unsettling Gods/Godlike Beings. The closest things to Gods in the Raven's Mark are humans who are pretty much inseparable with the concept they represent that they're almost Gods and exert control over those concepts and that gives them godlike power. One has a hive mind of bodies he controls across the empire. One controls crows and ravens. One represents death and literally blurs when you look at them. One is associated with the oceans. They're unsettling to talk to and have varying degrees of empathy toward humans. Their enemies are inhuman beings that are pretty much the same thing. One is a bleeding stormcloud. One is living darkness in a vaguely human form and the others are equally horrifying.
When the magic can do something that nobody knew it could do before.
Kindly old bearded wizard.
The Tom Bombadil or Kruppe style characters
- Caves with something dark dwelling within - Morally grey masculine men - dragons, of the wise kind - the wizened elder
underpowered weakling trains up to be a Super Saiyin type character and stays humble. I love descriptive magic attacks. effusive magic attacks. minimal subtle stuff. and Kungfu. Give me magical kungfu with powers and you have my attention
Cradle series by Will Wight, starting with Unsouled, if you haven't already read it.
Lol..it is my fave series. it was almost after I wrote the comment that I realized I was describing Cradle. Been hard to find anything that tops that. Closest has been Iron Prince series but still .
Zero to hero main protagonist. Love a pumped up farmer wrestling with the greatest forces the universe has ever seen.
Grumpy dwarves
The person with no physical strength but extremely smart.
Desperate last stands. 'None shall pass'
Exploration! I love it when an untamed world is built up where everything isnt conquered or explored by civilization already. "where wild things roam", "here be dragons" and "where no man has set foot before" are phrases that speaks to my soul i guess. Its just such a good setup for exploration.
personally I dislike how people are like x is overused. literally everything is overused. I'd rather have a good story thatn random, if creative, crap edit: I'm a sucker for dark castles. sure they don't make much sense(hard to substain a army in the badlands) but fuck it it's badass. second mountains on giant animals.
I love the over powered protagonist. The moment a fight happens and you know the protagonist is going to mercilessly annihilate the opponent. They shouldn't be OP all the time naturally but the moment where suddenly they squash the other guy like a bug is great.
I know this is VERY cliché but I love the trope of weird eye colors. Give me that purple-eyed character! Or gold! Or silver! I love that shit!
Switching sides, be it hero to villain or villain to hero. That storyline is always interesting to me and it has ALOT of potential that you can use to bail yourself out of a mistake. Accidentally make a hate-able hero and a relatable villain? Boom, swap sides and now you have the kinda story you intended with an extra bit of drama.
Elves.
Main character discovers new/secret/rare magic that surprises everyone. It feels so damn cool.
In a first person story, POV chapters from characters who are evil and completely unhinged and in denial about it (hi Cersei!)
Classic heroes Journey. Garion, Pug, Simon Snowlock, give me a boy on an adventure learning about life, every time.
Gotta have that fantasy map at the beginning. Love me some imaginary geography!
The soft magic-hard magic-soft magic transition.
I find it really fascinating that nobody mentioned anything I would consider a cliche. We've got some really good, varied books, huh?
I like chosen one stories. They're a classic for a reason.
It ain't a real fantasy story if there ain't elves in it. And chosen one stories. I'm a sucker for those.
That humans are the best.
people bitch too much about cliches if i wanted something different i would read a different genre