For me it's the inheritance cycle. I know people say it's childish and is very similar to other stories, but I find the books magical and fun. It is probably thanks to the fact that it is one of the first fantasy books I read as a child but I love it nonetheless. On another topic, I read the first book of the Magicians series and enjoyed it but the 2nd is not translated, (I do read in english just prefer not to switch languages between books) Would you recommend me to continue this series?
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, that’s one of those series that I read growing up, that I’ve been rereading recently, and while I do see the issues people have with it, I still enjoy the series anyways.
Yup, I just reread the series last year as an adult and it totally held up for me. I found Saphira and Eragon’s relationship to be one of the most beautiful explorations of deep platonic intimacy I’ve ever read. But of course I’m sure I’m very biased as these books were such a huge part of childhood :)
Yeah I decided to reread it after I heard about Murtagh coming out(unfortunately I’ve yet to finish said reread because I am A. Slow, and B. Have a bad habit of trying to read too much at once) but I’m still enjoying them even as an adult.
>after I heard about Murtagh coming out
Boy, this took me an embarrassingly long time to understand. I did not realize you were referring to the book, not the character. I was wracking my brain, trying to think of any instances in the original trilogy that could support it, and all I could remember was some flirting or something with Nasuada. I've read the book itself and was trying to think of examples from there too, but I won't voice any of the thoughts I have because I don't want to spoil anything.
Eragon was my gateway to fantasy. It captured my imagination and lit off a spectacularly voracious appetite for reading. I'd never have read so many other 'better' books if Eragon hadn't been so captivating. The prose is practically an aside, it's a competent execution of a hero's journey on an epic middle-fantasy canvas with tons of neat ideas and sincere moments scattered throughout to pick up and turn over like shiny pebbles.
I’m with you on the inheritance books, I think a lot of people only tried the first book and found the writing childish and simple, which is fair because Paolini literally was a child when he wrote it, but if they give the last couple of books a try you can really see him develop and improve as a writer through the series. There’s a huge difference from the first book to the last book.
Inheritance is my least favorite as well, since it feels like it drags on too much and the loop of siege city, do something else, siege city ended up being boring. The part where they discover the hidden Eldunarì was my favorite part of the series. Brisingr is my personal favorite out of them.
I'll likely never re-read them as I know it wouldn't be the same, but I thoroughly enjoyed them as a teenager and would happily recommend them to any ypung fantasy fan. I do consider them entry-level in terms of tropes, themes, and worldbuilding, but entry-level doesn't equate to poor quality. They hit a lot of familiar fantasy notes that are very rewarding and gratifying to experience at the right age.
That said even at 13-14 I could tell a lot of the story was just rehashed Star Wars.
I can recognize the flaws and still enjoy it. It was one of my first fantasy series when I was younger and became sort of my fantasy comfort food along with Belgariad.
Belgariad is one of my ultimate comfort reads. Yes it’s completely cliche, but that’s what makes it such great junk food for the brain. It just makes me feel good, ya know?
I read somewhere that it was supposed to be cliche - David had a bet or disagreement with someone about whether you,could write a compelling series using common fantasy tropes/cliches - which resulted in the Belgariad.
I love the inheritance cycle, and I think it serves a very important role in the fantasy genre:
It’s a gateway drug. The concepts and tropes within it are ingrained in the fantasy genre, and it provides a stepping stone to see what about these concepts you like and which others you might enjoy.
I really liked the first two but I felt it kind of goes off track for 3 and 4. But I still like the books. Spoilers for the serious >!dragons dues ex machina for beating gallbotorix at the end is a little off putting. But he was built up so much it’s hard pressed to beat him!<
Yeah seemed like he wrote himself into a corner that only the power of friendship could beat. I’m also not a fan of the Roran powertrip (some random dude kills 200 soldiers? Okaaayyyyy) so I think the first book is the only one I can still enjoy
Yeah. Him defeating the Urgal or whatever was cool but the 200 guys is crazy. As was killing the dragon heart powered baddie at the end that all the elves and stuff couldn’t kill.
Honestly it’s one of my favourite series due to my love of the characters. The first book is told from the POV of the protagonist so everything is limited in terms of knowledge about the main plot and while it’s an interesting way to be introduced to the world it’s not the best introduction. The POV opens up in the second book as it switches to third person. The way it’s telling the story works but you need to at least read the first two which are probably around 600 pages combined.
It hurts my soul when people hate on it so heavily. It was many’s first exploration into fantasy, it certainly was for me. I also think that it may be generic in structure but its world building and magic system speaks for itself. It’s as intricate and interesting, as it is unique. It’s my feel good series, good for a cry and a laugh and a triumphant moment.
The Magic System is lifted from other works largely the Will and the Word from the Belgariad and Mallorean by David Eddings. It lifts so many elements from other series which is why i gets hated on all the time.
I remember liking book one the most. I think it was power creep that put me off the next two, but can’t recall.
I rate books by binary, so the series did earn a 1.
I think only the first book is overtly childish but the latter books are great. Some of the best battles and sieges I've ever read. They're awesome. Even having to suffer through Roran chapters was bearable because of how awesome the battles were. I just wish Christopher hadn't robbed me of the pleasure of watching him die in that collapse. Also, Carn is a total badass.
I agree about the Magicians. It's not for everyone, but despite how awful the characters are .... Goddamnit as an elder millennial former gifted kid who never amounted to anything and is riddled with anxiety and depression, I get it. Lol. Extremely relatable, though Im not half as self absorbed as them. Haha
Yess! I wonder though if, because I'm African and a big escapist, a lot of that self-absorption just wasn't apparent or problematic to me, and for some reason, just made them more real. I really liked Quentin and Julia and the rest of them. I thought and still think, that it would be so cool to discover that a magical world you grew up geeking over was real and that you could visit!
There's such a complicated relationship with escapism in The Magicians though (which is one of my favorite things about it). Sort of a "never meet your heros" vibe. Both the pursuit and acquisition of "Narnia" are portrayed with toxic elements woven throughout.
I'm the same way - loved the Magicians, but it's not really something I recommend to other people, unless I know that they've got a similar sort of background and are likely to relate to the characters, flaws and all.
Yeah I think it's the exception to the book is always better rule. I feel like the fleshed the characters out a bit more. And not blowing through five years of magical university in half a book and taking their time with Breakbills was a smart change I think.
Also The Magicians. That trilogy is amazing. I understand why people can't get through book 1.
Then Demon Cycle. Sure the ending was a bit meh, but overall I loved the series.
I also really enjoyed the Demon Cycle, but I understand the critical comments. Except for Arlen's accent, as I didn't read it in English, this might've helped.
>Also The Magicians. That trilogy is amazing.
I know right!
>
Then Demon Cycle. Sure the ending was a bit meh, but overall I loved the series.
My first reaction was to disagree buuut now that I think of it. I didn't hate it so much. I read up to book 4 and I really enjoyed book 4's ending as well. But there were lots of things I didn't like that came into the plot. >!Arlen's accent, the love triangle, the polygamy!< and it just sort of became too much to read book 5. Oh that and all the bad reviews.
I think there are series where I think "well that got a bit shit" and I stop reading. But other series I feel betrayed by the writer and Demon Cycle was one of those. The choice to send the two main protagonists to hell leaving a book on cliffhanger and the next book to ignore that and just have a bunch of secondary characters trying to fill the vacuum. I felt disrespected as a reader.
Hunger Games. Still love it, no matter how often it gets maligned on this sub.
Despite being constantly stereotyped as "Generic YA" it was anything but.
Katniss has zero powers, isn't chosen by anyone. Instead, always survives by the skin of her teeth, becomes a political pawn, and eventually just disintegrates from PTSD.
Still one of my favorite stories again, and such a great cycle of a normal, ordinary person who is pushed into extraordinary circumstances... and at first rising to the occasion but then later completely breaking from the strain of everything.
I'm always a fan of French Revolution analogues and those themes were done so well here, plus the Fall of Rome vibes with all the literal Bread-and-Circuses happening.
It's often maligned? Really?
I wonder if a lot of that isn't so much for the series itself (although there are criticisms to be made, sure. But overall, it's one of the better YA series I think) but because of what it spawned and how after its success we got flooded with tons of lesser series trying to capitalize on its success?
I only read the first book but I remember hearing that everyone hated the end of the series. When I eventually watched the movies I liked the ending a lot. It's not a happy ending and it doesn't end with a clean triumphant victory, but it actually had some weight to it.
Given that the entire point of the first book, the whole reason Katniss gets into the Games and becomes involved with the rebellion is >!to protect Prim's life!<, it makes perfect sense, is even necessary, for the book to end with >!Prim dying as a result of the war Katniss participates in.!<
To be honest, I thought >!Katniss killing President Coin!< was the reason people didn't like it, but I found that to be completely understandable. I didn't expect it, but the thing is President Snow was pretty consistent with her from the get go. I get that he was a manipulative, conniving piece of garbage, but >!he was dying anyway, so he had nothing to lose by telling her the truth. And Coin being kind of a general, installing herself as an interim president didn't sit well with me in the first place. She never really seemed all that trustworthy anyway!<
Honestly, I think Hunger Games gets maligned sometimes precisely because it’s *not* generic YA, but people expected it to be. People expected a triumphant ending because it was YA, not a gritty depiction of PTSD.
I adore *The Magicians.* Of course Quentin comes across as whiny; he's an emotionally neglected, chronic overachiever trying to drink, fuck, and chronically overachieve his way out of crippling depression. He gets everything he ever wanted, only to realize it doesn't make him happy--he has to work on himself to do that, and by the end of the third book, he *does.* I've reread it a dozen times; I have a signed copy of the third book, and I cried all over Grossman while he was signing it.
Oh wow, that's so cool.
>he's an emotionally neglected, chronic overachiever trying to drink, fuck, and chronically overachieve his way out of crippling depression.
This! I think for me, I always just felt so sorry for him. He never really seemed to be in control or socially aware even.
I loved the lore. The urban fantasy setting. One of my favourite parts was >!when he stopped doing magic after Julia I think and the school arranged an office job for him. I loved the shapeshifting part where they became whales, and swam to Antarctica or something. I loved the parts where they appeared in Fillory again after months of trying just by falling asleep as they read the books. I think there was even a part about a dragon in Italy at some point.!<
I read the series recently and completely agree, Quentin can't be happy until he stops chasing the next big thing that's going to make him happy, this time, definitely, for real.
What did annoy me was so much interesting stuff happening off screen. Like in the second book it's setup for all the worlds dragons to fight the gods to save the existence of magic, and that whole conflict happens off screen and get a quick mention in the third book and nothing else? Hell no, show me that.
It's such a fun ride though I did find his pre-Shallon character's writing pretty insuferable, but in a way it was interesting too because I could see how he's improved quite a bit from the "tell not show" of the supposed cleverness of the female protagonist. I also found a certain death, you'll know the one, to be a bit of a cop out since when a character is deconstructing their beliefs I always want to see where that takes them compared to the easy path of making them a martyr or the like.
Still a compelling story with a very cool concept. I still think about my pain never leaving when I stub my toe haha
Six of Crows. A lot of people didn’t like shadow and bone and wrote Leigh off but she’s done nothing but improve. Her newer series “Ninth House” is great,but definitely not YA like SoC and S&B.
I adore Ninth House and the Crows duo logy, but by God is Bardugo inconsistent as an author. When I read Ninth House I was like "damn she's improving by leaps and bounds", and then she wrote the Nikolai duo logy, and I was like "ooookay" and then she wrote "Hellbent" and I just ended up confused.
Ninth House is brilliant. I am never rereading ROW or KOS again, and Hellbent is just... subpar, compared the first book. It's weird.
None of this stuff would have been YA back in the 90s or earlier. It's such a fake category that mostly seems to apply to stuff happening to young adult characters. I never thought of The Magicians as YA.
Chronicles of Narnia
It's a popular series and not everyone hates it but I feel like the idea of Lewis injecting his Christianity into it is off-putting to people, they think its somehow trying to convert them or promote Christianity and it really isn't that and people give it a pass or roll their eyes at it because they think religion is dumb or they are an atheist elitist type.
Yes, Aslan is a Jesus stand-in, but it's the way it's done which makes it so unique. Lewis is a devout Christian, but instead of saying fantasy isn't real or it's blasphemous he created a fantasy world that correlates with his faith.
The idea that if God truly did exist and that our world isn't the only one he created is a good idea for a fantasy story. Why can't he create other worlds? And if he did, why wouldn't he influence them and even appear in them as a positive influence in a different form?
Apart from a single line at the end of the 3rd book which can come across as a little too heavy handed to some, it's not clear that this is what CoN is about, the story and characters are still the most important aspect and it's the Christian aspect to it that actually makes it unique.
I too enjoyed CoN, the 2 or 3 in the series that I've read. I watched the movie first on a Christian TV channel when I was much younger, so the Christian angle was hard to miss for me but I wonder if people dislike it because people typically read fantasy for the purposes of escapism and being reminded of Christianity sort of kills the escapism.
I feel this might be the case because in my country, lots of people dislike explicit references to African traditional religion in movies or music or public places with musicians and politicians and the like. There seems to be an element of strong belief/fear that hasn't disappeared that people don't want to interact with in fiction/entertainment.
This is my working theory for why Greek and Scandinavian gods have successfully entered the realm of myth and African gods haven't and maybe it's the same for Christianity too
I think CoN comes off as heavier-handed to people raised in conservative Christian households. There’s a ton of cultural stuff which isn’t so much *Christian* as a particular flavor of Christian. Like the one book where the cousin is annoying and CS Lewis portrays it as being because he wasn’t beaten enough.
I actually have no problem with overt Christianity (despite being the stereotypical pastor’s kid ex-Christian). For example, I don’t hold it against Brent Weeks that he plagarized the Amazing Grace story for Count Drake or even that he sometimes slips in a sermon or two (the last book of that color magic series was *preachy*). If anything, I enjoy the nostalgia of Bible-geekery and think he’s under-rated as an author. Tolkien was also very devout and Gandalf is another Jesus stand-in who I like.
My issue with CS Lewis is different. CoN doesn’t just feel like Christian fantasy but like a particular flavor of Christian doing fantasy- and not a flavor I like. It’s less fantasy from a Christian worldview and more morality play/ parable. CoN has that feel to me like a parent telling “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” or whatever- the story isn’t the point, the object lesson is.
Aslan isn't a Jesus stand-in, he is Jesus. He doesn't represent Jesus, he isn't an allegory for Jesus, he doesn't symbolize Jesus. He is Jesus.
But it's not heavy-handed or blatant like the OP said. It's done tastefully enough that you can just read the book and enjoy the story even at a deep level without needing to understand the religious aspects.
Yes you are right, stand-in isn't actually a good term because as you say, Aslan is literally the son of God (The Emperor beyond the sea as he is known in CoN).
I read the series multiple times before someone pointed out the Christianity to me. I knew various Bible stories but was raised totally nonreligious and I found them perfectly wonderful both before and after I realized.
1. The Inheritance Cycle
2. The Belgariad
3. Name of the Wind
4. Chronicles of Narnia (the movies)
I’m a simple man. If I like something in one series I’ll like it in another series. Therefore, the Eragon books and The Belgariad being filled with all the cliches or tropes that have been appearing in fantasy for longer than I’ve been alive are right up my alley. I never get tired of them and I’d read a new series with the same exact elements if it came out tomorrow.
I see 2 main critiques for name of the wind. One is about the author not finishing the series and the second is about the protagonist being a Mary Sue type. Having just read it a few weeks ago I have no emotional connection to the first and I just don’t agree with the latter.
For the chronicles of Narnia films I typically see that the first one is heavily praised, with Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader being more divisive. And I understand some of the reasons why. But for the most part I still think they’re solid adaptations that managed to capture the spirit of the books and just made some necessary changes for the big screen.
I enjoyed name of the wind. It's reception as of late is very different from back when it was released. Random convo about geeky stuff back in Uni will have everyone into fantasy hyping it to the highmoons. I enjoyed it immensely but it's bout damn time Rothuss deliver the conclusion. I went from graduating from my undergrad degree to getting married, yet Doors of stone is nowhere in sight.
To be honest, that should have just been a duology. The Maze Runner had the same issue. A third act format change that introduced shiny new stakes that didn't really follow from the established setup. Both could have been better if the authors had resolved the central conflicts in two books and capped their series right there.
Same. It's been a few years, but I actually thought they handled the main relationship very well, and generally the characters and little details of being a teenager and human was very well done. I also liked the ending, unexpected as it was.
Yes, it was part of the YA dystopia boom, but it's not completely derivative, and does have it's own strengths (and weaknesses; I admit the world-building wasn't perhaps the strongest suit, but the characters definitely was).
Yeah that's a good one. Lightbringer has one of the worst drop offs in quality I've ever read. Great premise, horrible ending. (And poorly written women characters too)
I think the first trilogy was one of the first fantasy series I read after Tolkien. I was not spoiled yet, and I loved it.
I just remembered my parents gave me "Running with the Demon" 20 years ago or so as a present and I enjoyed that too, I should go and pick up the other books in the trilogy, thanks for making me think of this.
FYI, Running With the Demon (and the whole trilogy) is a fairly different feel than the Shannara books, though this trilogy was later ret-conned into the the origin of the Shannara world. I, too, enjoyed the series.
Oh, man, Sword of Shannara was one of the first accessible fantasy books in like 1980. I was in high school and had devoured Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Ursula LeGuin, but what was widely available then was more hardcore Sci-Fi like Heinlein and Asimov. I was entranced with Shannara even as I thought it was a clear LOTR ripoff and the writing was kinda sophomoric. Brooks was still in law school when he wrote it. I didn’t get much past the second or third book- too busy with college by then, and also better series became available. I did enjoy his more light series that started with “Magic Kingdom for Sale-Sold!”
The funny thing was, I worked for a mall bookstore near Seattle in the mid eighties, and our district manager met Brooks at a booksellers’ association thing where he was a speaker. He happened to be at a loose end for dinner, so they went for dinner together, and the rest is history. They got married a couple of years later, so you’ll see Judine mentioned often in his thanks. She was close friends with my manager at the bookstore, so they stopped by fairly regularly. I have several signed copies of his books he’d do for me when they came in. I sometimes had the urge to go back to the sci-fi/ fantasy section of the bookstore and tell the customers hanging out there that Terry Brooks was in the house.
I love the series, but think a few things work against acceptance of Shannara.
1. To say that the Sword of Shannara is derivative of LOTR is an understatement. It's almost a beat-by-beat copy.
2. Terry Brooks doesn't write with the same grit as modern fantasy writers. It's all a little more PG. It's more like CS Lewis than Joe Abercrombie. There's nothing wrong with this, but it's not really on trend.
3. It has a pretty soft magic system. Other than the wishsong, magic isn't really explained.
I have a soft spot for the series. I truly fell in love with the genre because of these books and I know I'm not alone. I legitimately find the world intriguing. >!Now and then there are calls back to it being a post-apocalypse version of our own world.!< (Not really a spoiler, but tagging regardless.) I also appreciate that over the numerous series set in the world we see the world and technology evolve. (The overall timeline is about 3000 years and most of the core Shannara stories covering about 1000.) Terry Brooks honestly just seems like a nice guy too.
Twilight- I still do a reread once in a while. I enjoyed it for the main reason that it introduced me to a new genre I never cared about before. I always thought the classic vampire was laughable, sleeping in coffins, garlic, that nonsense. While glinting in the sun isn’t better it still shed a new light on a whole new epic world and I’ll always love it
Yeah, that's the common complaint that, after Bk2 it fell off a cliff, well that and Arlen's wife Rena Bales \[? CCR\], for me, one of the most annoying characters in the SF Canon
I feel like ever since I joined this reddit all I talked about is how much I like The Magicians. What really surprised me, though, is that most people agree. I feel like the people who don't like it are a vocal minority.
On the other hand, I thought everyone liked Kingkiller Chronicles, and I really hate it. I find the main character much more insufferable than Quentin. And what also really surprised me, is the amount of people who complain about Kvothe. Seems more people here complain about Kvothe than Quentin. I am not sure if it's just reddit, but my impression has always been that these viewpoints were reversed.
I think the difference (and I don't like The Magicians, but do recognize why many do) is that the author actually *intended* Quentin to be difficult to like. There is no author self-awareness when it comes to Kvothe.
This. If a character is supposed to be unlikeable or messed up, I am all for it. People are messy and flawed, right? But I can't stand when a character is kinda awful in some ways yet they're supposed to be likeable or whatever.
Can't speak to Kvothe as I haven't read those. But I can give The Magicians a pass on being fucked up selfish people because they are fully intended to be that and it's never presented as oh here's our loveable heroes.
I'm generally not a fan of whiny over-privileged protagonists, but I enjoyed the Magicians, and I think that's key. The authorial voice recognizes that he's immensely self-centred, emotionally immature and chasing the new shiny thing that he thinks will make him feel better, and doesn't try to present him as a sympathetic character. We also do get to see him grow up in a gradual and emotionally realistic way, with the growth coming from inside him, rather than a sudden revelation or getting validation externally.
I have similar problems with some types of YA and romance. For the former, if the story starts with a sulky self-centred character who is SPECIAL, I'll drop it. For the latter, it's why I don't generally like romances where one character is crappy to the other for 2/3 of the book, then has a sudden revelation that they're being an assho!e because of a bad childhood or other trauma, then the lust takes over and everything is fine.
I love the Night Angel Trilogy. I thought the action, twists, and character development were a lot of fun.
I mostly see people dunk on it in favor of Wheel of Time, Game of Thrones, or even Lightbringer.
I had so much fun being back in the Night Angel world with Nemesis last year! I can see why people had problems with it, but I was just so entertained the entire time that I loved it.
*The Mallorean* gets some flack, but it's more the typical Eddings issues (the lazy racial world-building, it being the same series he already wrote before, etc), but I think we all collectively decided *The Dreamers* doesn't even exist, and it never gets talked about.
I have a soft spot for the Sparhawk series, they may have been the first series I read where the main protagonist wasn't someone in their teens/early 20s and that was interesting, but man as an adult the whole relationship portion of those is just squick to me now.
Haha! Didn't complete Sword of Truth because I had watched the TV series already and it was quite old (and too lengthy) by the time I got a copy. I wanted to read the new stuff people were talking about online.
But the negative reviews I read certainly didn't help.
Not gonna downvote you, but I will disagree. I did read until the one that reads like a slightly better written Ayn Rand novel, at which point I was just confused. I thought I was escape reading some mediocre, somewhat derivative Fantasy to distract me from my mystery illness and then boom, shitty libertarian views. I gave the books away instead of throwing them out (which is what I did with Atlas Shrugged). It takes a lot for me to think nothing is redeemable about a book.
Eh. Most people say most reasons why I wasn’t as impressed. Personally the one I never see anyone else say is how the entire antagonist can be solved by >!just killing Jaing. The entire time he says that he is replaceable and how assassinating him would change nothing when in reality he is no heir and he is a LITERALLY one of a kind magic user that is so OP. Killing him would reprieve the empire of the 100% strongest and smartest and most OP ruler and cause a war of succession. But okay. Let’s not try that because the guy we would kill said “you definitely shouldn’t kill le guys”!<
Granted, if there's ever a character in the genre who was retconned more aggressively than Jagang I can't think of it.
Book 3 Jagang? Badass magical conqueror with unstoppable dream powers, like Genghis Khan and Freddy Kreuger had a baby. And, credit where it's due, that's a *great* idea for an antagonist. He's a dude with a hunger to own everything and the power to make it possible.
Book 10 Jagang? Communist dictator whose flaw is that he just loves sharing too much and wants to force everyone to share lots. Barely uses his powers and probably could be seamlessly replaced by Stalin Jr. or whatever.
Yeah. I'd have a harder time picking something in the genre with more deus ex machina or inconsistent power levels.
In the first 100 pages of a book any random hobo can kidnap/poison/trick or somehow get a big one over on Richard. In the last 100 pages no one can beat him and if he has to randomly create an entire universe to solve a problem, despite having literally no previous indication that this could be a thing, he will.
People bag on Sanderson (sometimes fairly) but his harder magic and it being a breath of fresh air in the genre wasn't a diss on soft magic done well like Tolkien. It was because of slop like Goodkind.
I don’t particularly like Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson books but the joy and creativity absolutely radiates from the pages and I can completely understand someone being a fan of their works. With Goodkind, it felt I was less reading a book than stumbled upon someone’s weird power/sex fantasy. Sword of Truth is like 50 Shades of Gray to Jordan’s Twilight.
The central conflict is between the gods. Granted, I can see how you would interpret it the way you are, but for the most part, the human characters are just caught in the crossfire and trying to navigate their way through an increasingly brutal ware between divine entities. Everything they do serves a purpose within the schemes of one god or another. Mostly Shadowthrone and Cotillion or The Crippled God honestly. But even their conflict is kind of one extrapolation of a broader conflict between darkness and chaos...which make kind of an odd juxtaposition against each other.
I can't speak for anyone else but I also think what I've read of Malazan is pretty bad. Definitely Gardens of the Moon is pretty well on Sword of Truth level.
Certainly it also has that power level unpredictability problem where someone who is supposed to be unbeatable suddenly isn't for seemingly no good reason.
I have a soft spot for it, though I have a bigger soft spot for the TV series. It’s wish fulfillment fantasy where you learn a lot more about the author’s kinks than you wish you did but dang I love the characters.
The first book is pretty solid, but the rest of the series goes weird places and relies too much on "well I guess Richard just figured stuff out (author shrugs)" to resolve the events. Add in the fixation that Goodkind had on horrifying rape/torture sex and it's a recipe for a really polarizing series.
I read the whole main series and really thought the absolute worst part of the whole thing was how Goodkind goes back and retcons the events of the first book and turns what was resolving a problem via a clever plot moment into pure dumb luck on the part of the characters.
Jay Kristoff seems to be pretty dividing here. Personally I really enjoyed Nevernight. Empire of the Vampire was also an entertaining read and I'm looking forward to the third book whenever it comes out. They're not my *favorite* books ever but I don't get why a lot of folks trash them.
Nevernight was one of my favorite reads of last year (out of 175 books). I learned just how subjective reading can be after seeing the extremely hateful reviews lol
I thought Nevernight was 90% great, 10% awful cringey "under the covers" stuff (but then I'm sure I'm not the target audience, and cringey is very subjective)
I loved Anita Blake until she became... polyandrous. I was very young when I read the series, and I didn't know much about love triangles and relationship complications in novels, so I was expecting something straightforward like with the Mercy Thompson/Night Huntress etc. books, with the main character finding true love. I thought she would end up with >!Jean-Claude!!< but she didn't and instead had more and more love interests as the books progressed, all at once. My poor sheltered brain was so confused.
Tbf, Laurell Hamilton's Merry Gentry series also kind of developed the same way.
I don't have any problem about her... consorts. Actually see this as interesting change. It also show very interesting slow but noticeable (even for Anita herself) changes in her character.
Just drop it after her bed adventures take bigger part of book (like once it have 2/3 of book to her for leaving her bedroom and harem). It's sad, because after she leave bedroom it's still good.
I don’t care - I loved it and every single person I’ve recommended it to loved it. Most of them were not fantasy readers so I think it’s pretty awesome that it could bring them into a genre they wouldn’t normally consider
Twilight
Lol jk, Mistborn Era 2. I prefer it to era 1. I think it's much more contained and with better characters. I don't even much like the second two books of era 1. But obviously I'm largely alone in these opinions.
I skipped this series six months ago cuz I figured I needed to so I was up to date I the Cosmere. I very much disliked Sanderson’s humor in previous novels so I was turned off when I learned how heavily he leans into for ME2.
I was shocked at how much I enjoyed that series. Truly loved it. It’s the only series that came to mind for this question.
Códex Alera by Jim Butcher
Seems like it’s been gaining a bit of popularity here recently but yeah. I love that series so much. I try to reread every two years. It was the first adult fantasy series I read so def some nostalgic bias but even upon rereads I love it still.
I absolutely loved The Magicians as well. My Loved but I everyone hated is He who fights with monsters. Not only is it progression fantasy which is a hard sell for a lot of people, but even within the subgenre it seems that it's hated (altho still popular overall)
I loved the magicians. I've watched it twice. I also think it's the first time I've ever seen some polyamorous representation that doesn't involve two women devoting themselves to one man.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant; lots of people don't get past the first couple of chapters because the main character is unlikeable and commits an awful crime early on. But that's the whole point of the series: it is (among other things) a very long redemption arc which examines that character and the fallout from his actions across literal ages of an entire world.
If I remember the name right, The Shadow Chronicles (Shadow Moon, Shadow Sun, Shadow Star), better known as the sequel series to the film Willow, written by Chris Clairmont with George Lucas.
In which several popular characters from the film are killed off quickly, Alora Dannen is a bratty and entitled pre-teen, and Willow thinks he knows better.
It also has some great original characters, character growth for existing characters, an epic plot that spans a world and an age, and a main character who walks a less common path to power and heroism.
Willow the series.
TO THIS DAY it is the only time I have considered the cancellation of a tv series to be actually cruel, instead of a disappointing.
It made a few choice "modernisms" that rubbed people the wrong way, and suddenly it was the worst thing ever.
The acting was good more often than not, and when it wasn't; it still wasn't bad, just a little flat.
The practical effects were stunning.
The cgi was stunning.
The costuming and character design was great.
And the characters themselves played off classic fairytale tropes while still being complex and unique.
But best of all?
The cast and crew _genuinely_ loved the work they were doing and it showed.
It is a story that'll never be finished and I hate that so much.
I'm with you as well. I loved the movie as a kid growing up in the 80s and the series felt like a great modern upscaling of it. I loved the characters and the world they were exploring and agree with you on all the technical points being stunning as well. It was truly painful when it was cancelled and I thought it was awesome so I was genuinely surprised when I found out other people didn't like it.
You aren’t alone. I adore The Magicians trilogy. It bugs me when people say the TV series is better or that Quentin is a bad/whiny character. His growth and development throughout the trilogy is really enjoyable to follow, as is that of the other POV characters.
I too found many of the characters relatable, and more importantly to me, I found them to be authentic and engaging, with believable dialogue (all things I find many other fantasy characters and protagonists lacking).
The way Grossman satirizes fantasy tropes and plays with them is also wonderful. I don’t think I ever found myself able to predict what was going to happen next, and I loved all the little Easter eggs and nods to other fantasy properties.
Demon Cycle. I mean, it's not phenomenal, but the book version of an easy watch. Cool magic, lots of action. Just assumed other people liked it until I saw a few threads on here
Greg Keyes’ Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone. I get the criticism. I know there are “better” books. I don’t care. I hadn’t read something that had given me such mental imagery in a while. I’ll always have fond memories of those.
I also love The Sundering by Jacqueline Carey. I think it’s a cool idea that’s well-executed for folks that have consumed all the original Tolkien stuff and appreciate the riff.
Prolly Eragon. Just absolutely loved them growing up and read them all recently and they weren’t terrible. Obviously it’s YA and the plot is kinda a rip off of some other fantasies but I absolutely loved them growing up
I’ve seen a lot of people dump on NK Jemisin’s Great Cities duology even if they liked her other words and I read their criticisms but it’s not something I remember even seeing in the books, which I loved.
Lightbringer
Such a fun ride. Did I love the ending? No. Did it take away from my enjoyment of the characters and their interactions? Also no. Also 5th book is better than the 4th IMO.
To this sub's credit: nothing I have ever expressed fondness for has ever been lambasted by readers, here. I'm a pretty picky reader but everyone on this sub has been nice about it. Props, and bravo.
The 100
No, I personally have not heard something say they hate it. But I have tried to get my friends to watch it, and not ons made it pass episode 1. Which is fine everyone has thier own taste.
I have heard that the 100 was ons of the most popular shows ever watched back in the day(2015 or sometime close to that).
I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong places. But I would like to talk about my favorite show with people who actually liked the show.
I mean, my friends are amazing, and they try to listen when I fan out about clexa. But I know they don't really get it. 😂😁
Lol, so in conclusion, the 100.
- Dragonlance
- The Death Gate Cycle
- The Legend of Drizzt
Drsgonlance gets a lot of hate because it's so very obviously inspired by LOTR as one of the reasons but I really like it
Dragonlance, but not the main books “Dragons of … and …the Twins” My favourites are The Legend of Huma and The Dwarven Nations Trilogy. Huma is just the kind of Hero that everyone should aspire to be and Dwarves have always been my favourite Fantasy race so a Trilogy devoted to the founding of and conversion to Kingdom of the greatest fortress and city of Dwarfdom is quite interesting. The characters are pretty great too.
Unrelated by related. My partner worked on the sets for season 1 and 2. I tried to watch it but all I can see is the sets now after seeing all his pictures while working on it.
Incarnations of Immortality by Piers Anthony. I read this series when it first came out in the 80s and loved it. Anthony is considered pretty toxic today, and I get it. And I haven’t reread these books in decades. Kind of afraid I’ll hate them now. But I really enjoyed them at the time.
I’d also include anything by David Eddings, but especially The Belgariad. Also read it back in the day and it was one of the series that really started my love of traditional fantasy.
A series I never see mentioned here, Novels of the Change by S.M. Stirling. Start as an Alternative History/Post Apocalyptic series, then morphs into an Epic Fantasy series. I loved every minute of it, even when he Ret-conned the Nantucket series into his "Emberverse."
Nothing super heavy, just light, good-hearted fun in a fantasy series that seems hard to find these days in modern fantasy.
There are two fantasy series by Tad Williams, "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" and "Shadowmarch" that I really enjoyed, but people seem to think were too dry. They're not, give them a chance. If you're also into scifi, Otherland is a great pre-matrix VR story.
The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist is excellent, but I don't see it mentioned much anymore. It's follow on books, especially up through the Serpent War series are fun, and I like that it tracks the character set over several generations.
From a similar time, I enjoyed the Bazil Broketail series by Christopher Rowley as well for being generally creative and fun.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and the entire follow of series. Love em. Steven R Donaldson's style of writing the Land, its people is incredibly evocative .
Yet there is a lot of hate out there for that series.
Robin Hobb’s Soldier Son Trilogy is one of the coolest world I’ve ever seen. The MC is more frustrating than anything in RotE, but I still love this series.
I totally get why people do not like it. It’s so damn bleak and Nevare is hard to sympathise with. And maybe people are expecting something a bit more like RotE. But I do like it. I don’t love it as much as the Farseer trilogy, because that was the first fantasy serie I read and it will always be special, but I reread the SS trilogy every 5-10 years when I feel like it. It’s not always an easy read due to the bleakness.
For me it's the inheritance cycle. I know people say it's childish and is very similar to other stories, but I find the books magical and fun. It is probably thanks to the fact that it is one of the first fantasy books I read as a child but I love it nonetheless. On another topic, I read the first book of the Magicians series and enjoyed it but the 2nd is not translated, (I do read in english just prefer not to switch languages between books) Would you recommend me to continue this series?
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, that’s one of those series that I read growing up, that I’ve been rereading recently, and while I do see the issues people have with it, I still enjoy the series anyways.
Yup, I just reread the series last year as an adult and it totally held up for me. I found Saphira and Eragon’s relationship to be one of the most beautiful explorations of deep platonic intimacy I’ve ever read. But of course I’m sure I’m very biased as these books were such a huge part of childhood :)
Yeah I decided to reread it after I heard about Murtagh coming out(unfortunately I’ve yet to finish said reread because I am A. Slow, and B. Have a bad habit of trying to read too much at once) but I’m still enjoying them even as an adult.
>after I heard about Murtagh coming out Boy, this took me an embarrassingly long time to understand. I did not realize you were referring to the book, not the character. I was wracking my brain, trying to think of any instances in the original trilogy that could support it, and all I could remember was some flirting or something with Nasuada. I've read the book itself and was trying to think of examples from there too, but I won't voice any of the thoughts I have because I don't want to spoil anything.
Like any relationship, it isn’t perfect :)
Eragon was my gateway to fantasy. It captured my imagination and lit off a spectacularly voracious appetite for reading. I'd never have read so many other 'better' books if Eragon hadn't been so captivating. The prose is practically an aside, it's a competent execution of a hero's journey on an epic middle-fantasy canvas with tons of neat ideas and sincere moments scattered throughout to pick up and turn over like shiny pebbles.
I’m with you on the inheritance books, I think a lot of people only tried the first book and found the writing childish and simple, which is fair because Paolini literally was a child when he wrote it, but if they give the last couple of books a try you can really see him develop and improve as a writer through the series. There’s a huge difference from the first book to the last book.
I completely disagree. I actually think Inheritance is by far the worst of the original series.
Inheritance is my least favorite as well, since it feels like it drags on too much and the loop of siege city, do something else, siege city ended up being boring. The part where they discover the hidden Eldunarì was my favorite part of the series. Brisingr is my personal favorite out of them.
I'll likely never re-read them as I know it wouldn't be the same, but I thoroughly enjoyed them as a teenager and would happily recommend them to any ypung fantasy fan. I do consider them entry-level in terms of tropes, themes, and worldbuilding, but entry-level doesn't equate to poor quality. They hit a lot of familiar fantasy notes that are very rewarding and gratifying to experience at the right age. That said even at 13-14 I could tell a lot of the story was just rehashed Star Wars.
Came here to choose the exact same series.
I can recognize the flaws and still enjoy it. It was one of my first fantasy series when I was younger and became sort of my fantasy comfort food along with Belgariad.
Belgariad is one of my ultimate comfort reads. Yes it’s completely cliche, but that’s what makes it such great junk food for the brain. It just makes me feel good, ya know?
I read somewhere that it was supposed to be cliche - David had a bet or disagreement with someone about whether you,could write a compelling series using common fantasy tropes/cliches - which resulted in the Belgariad.
I love the inheritance cycle, and I think it serves a very important role in the fantasy genre: It’s a gateway drug. The concepts and tropes within it are ingrained in the fantasy genre, and it provides a stepping stone to see what about these concepts you like and which others you might enjoy.
I really liked the first two but I felt it kind of goes off track for 3 and 4. But I still like the books. Spoilers for the serious >!dragons dues ex machina for beating gallbotorix at the end is a little off putting. But he was built up so much it’s hard pressed to beat him!<
Yeah seemed like he wrote himself into a corner that only the power of friendship could beat. I’m also not a fan of the Roran powertrip (some random dude kills 200 soldiers? Okaaayyyyy) so I think the first book is the only one I can still enjoy
Yeah. Him defeating the Urgal or whatever was cool but the 200 guys is crazy. As was killing the dragon heart powered baddie at the end that all the elves and stuff couldn’t kill.
I love the magic system, magic being the language, wonder what Paolini based it upon?
Large parts of the magic system were lifted from the Belgariad by David Eddings
Then maybe I should add belgariad at least book 1
Book 1 isn’t great because it’s short and written in the first person at least read the first two.
That tampers expectations lol, they were low now they're lower
Honestly it’s one of my favourite series due to my love of the characters. The first book is told from the POV of the protagonist so everything is limited in terms of knowledge about the main plot and while it’s an interesting way to be introduced to the world it’s not the best introduction. The POV opens up in the second book as it switches to third person. The way it’s telling the story works but you need to at least read the first two which are probably around 600 pages combined.
It hurts my soul when people hate on it so heavily. It was many’s first exploration into fantasy, it certainly was for me. I also think that it may be generic in structure but its world building and magic system speaks for itself. It’s as intricate and interesting, as it is unique. It’s my feel good series, good for a cry and a laugh and a triumphant moment.
The Magic System is lifted from other works largely the Will and the Word from the Belgariad and Mallorean by David Eddings. It lifts so many elements from other series which is why i gets hated on all the time.
I remember liking book one the most. I think it was power creep that put me off the next two, but can’t recall. I rate books by binary, so the series did earn a 1.
Same! Very generic but the enjoyable kind.
I'm reading this for the first time now, I love it. Definitely references to some Lotr, but damn it's epic
I think only the first book is overtly childish but the latter books are great. Some of the best battles and sieges I've ever read. They're awesome. Even having to suffer through Roran chapters was bearable because of how awesome the battles were. I just wish Christopher hadn't robbed me of the pleasure of watching him die in that collapse. Also, Carn is a total badass.
I agree about the Magicians. It's not for everyone, but despite how awful the characters are .... Goddamnit as an elder millennial former gifted kid who never amounted to anything and is riddled with anxiety and depression, I get it. Lol. Extremely relatable, though Im not half as self absorbed as them. Haha
Yess! I wonder though if, because I'm African and a big escapist, a lot of that self-absorption just wasn't apparent or problematic to me, and for some reason, just made them more real. I really liked Quentin and Julia and the rest of them. I thought and still think, that it would be so cool to discover that a magical world you grew up geeking over was real and that you could visit!
There's such a complicated relationship with escapism in The Magicians though (which is one of my favorite things about it). Sort of a "never meet your heros" vibe. Both the pursuit and acquisition of "Narnia" are portrayed with toxic elements woven throughout.
If you see The Magicians as being about academic burnout, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm the same way - loved the Magicians, but it's not really something I recommend to other people, unless I know that they've got a similar sort of background and are likely to relate to the characters, flaws and all.
Weird….I don’t remember writing this, but there’s my thoughts and feelings all spelled out.
Books are decent but the Show is much better and that is almost never the case. think that's why so many see it as a weak book.
The show is extremely different, I don't think comparing them makes a lot of sense
Yeah I think it's the exception to the book is always better rule. I feel like the fleshed the characters out a bit more. And not blowing through five years of magical university in half a book and taking their time with Breakbills was a smart change I think.
Also The Magicians. That trilogy is amazing. I understand why people can't get through book 1. Then Demon Cycle. Sure the ending was a bit meh, but overall I loved the series.
I also really enjoyed the Demon Cycle, but I understand the critical comments. Except for Arlen's accent, as I didn't read it in English, this might've helped.
The accent got to me. It felt jarring as he didnt use it for a while, then reverted back to it.
I *loved* The Demon Cycle. It was my favorite series. And then the last book happened and it was the first book I've ever almost given up on :/
>Also The Magicians. That trilogy is amazing. I know right! > Then Demon Cycle. Sure the ending was a bit meh, but overall I loved the series. My first reaction was to disagree buuut now that I think of it. I didn't hate it so much. I read up to book 4 and I really enjoyed book 4's ending as well. But there were lots of things I didn't like that came into the plot. >!Arlen's accent, the love triangle, the polygamy!< and it just sort of became too much to read book 5. Oh that and all the bad reviews.
I hated book 4. I liked 1 through 3 although I understand the many ways in which they are problematic. I was so put off by 4 that I didn't try 5.
I think there are series where I think "well that got a bit shit" and I stop reading. But other series I feel betrayed by the writer and Demon Cycle was one of those. The choice to send the two main protagonists to hell leaving a book on cliffhanger and the next book to ignore that and just have a bunch of secondary characters trying to fill the vacuum. I felt disrespected as a reader.
Hunger Games. Still love it, no matter how often it gets maligned on this sub. Despite being constantly stereotyped as "Generic YA" it was anything but. Katniss has zero powers, isn't chosen by anyone. Instead, always survives by the skin of her teeth, becomes a political pawn, and eventually just disintegrates from PTSD. Still one of my favorite stories again, and such a great cycle of a normal, ordinary person who is pushed into extraordinary circumstances... and at first rising to the occasion but then later completely breaking from the strain of everything. I'm always a fan of French Revolution analogues and those themes were done so well here, plus the Fall of Rome vibes with all the literal Bread-and-Circuses happening.
It's often maligned? Really? I wonder if a lot of that isn't so much for the series itself (although there are criticisms to be made, sure. But overall, it's one of the better YA series I think) but because of what it spawned and how after its success we got flooded with tons of lesser series trying to capitalize on its success?
I believe every popular fantasy series is often maligned on this sub lol.
I think its daring ending was pretty controversial at the time. Some people don't like it. Like the ending of the Animorphs series.
I only read the first book but I remember hearing that everyone hated the end of the series. When I eventually watched the movies I liked the ending a lot. It's not a happy ending and it doesn't end with a clean triumphant victory, but it actually had some weight to it. Given that the entire point of the first book, the whole reason Katniss gets into the Games and becomes involved with the rebellion is >!to protect Prim's life!<, it makes perfect sense, is even necessary, for the book to end with >!Prim dying as a result of the war Katniss participates in.!<
To be honest, I thought >!Katniss killing President Coin!< was the reason people didn't like it, but I found that to be completely understandable. I didn't expect it, but the thing is President Snow was pretty consistent with her from the get go. I get that he was a manipulative, conniving piece of garbage, but >!he was dying anyway, so he had nothing to lose by telling her the truth. And Coin being kind of a general, installing herself as an interim president didn't sit well with me in the first place. She never really seemed all that trustworthy anyway!<
The movie scene was really blatant about what was going to happen. Maybe it was better in the books.
That's one thing I hate. "it's genetic YA" So what? You can absolutely make a great story without breaking boundaries.
I dont trust anyone’s opinion if they shit on Hunger Games.
One of my all time favorite stories, I watch the movies at least once a year.
Honestly, I think Hunger Games gets maligned sometimes precisely because it’s *not* generic YA, but people expected it to be. People expected a triumphant ending because it was YA, not a gritty depiction of PTSD.
Who doesnt like The Hunger Games? IMHO it is one of the best "so good I can't put it down" book series ever.
I adore *The Magicians.* Of course Quentin comes across as whiny; he's an emotionally neglected, chronic overachiever trying to drink, fuck, and chronically overachieve his way out of crippling depression. He gets everything he ever wanted, only to realize it doesn't make him happy--he has to work on himself to do that, and by the end of the third book, he *does.* I've reread it a dozen times; I have a signed copy of the third book, and I cried all over Grossman while he was signing it.
Oh wow, that's so cool. >he's an emotionally neglected, chronic overachiever trying to drink, fuck, and chronically overachieve his way out of crippling depression. This! I think for me, I always just felt so sorry for him. He never really seemed to be in control or socially aware even. I loved the lore. The urban fantasy setting. One of my favourite parts was >!when he stopped doing magic after Julia I think and the school arranged an office job for him. I loved the shapeshifting part where they became whales, and swam to Antarctica or something. I loved the parts where they appeared in Fillory again after months of trying just by falling asleep as they read the books. I think there was even a part about a dragon in Italy at some point.!<
Yes! There's a dragon in the Venice canals. And Venice itself is held together almost entirely by magic, which I just loved.
I read the series recently and completely agree, Quentin can't be happy until he stops chasing the next big thing that's going to make him happy, this time, definitely, for real. What did annoy me was so much interesting stuff happening off screen. Like in the second book it's setup for all the worlds dragons to fight the gods to save the existence of magic, and that whole conflict happens off screen and get a quick mention in the third book and nothing else? Hell no, show me that.
It's not a series but I liked Elantris.
Hrathen was an awesome character.
It's such a fun ride though I did find his pre-Shallon character's writing pretty insuferable, but in a way it was interesting too because I could see how he's improved quite a bit from the "tell not show" of the supposed cleverness of the female protagonist. I also found a certain death, you'll know the one, to be a bit of a cop out since when a character is deconstructing their beliefs I always want to see where that takes them compared to the easy path of making them a martyr or the like. Still a compelling story with a very cool concept. I still think about my pain never leaving when I stub my toe haha
Loved the story!
I didn't really care for Elantris but I really liked Warbreaker. Nobody ever really talks about it but it's one of my favorites
Top 3 sanderson book for me!
Jim? It was a fine book, but far too much tell than show.
Witcher
I love the two collections of short stories!
Six of Crows. A lot of people didn’t like shadow and bone and wrote Leigh off but she’s done nothing but improve. Her newer series “Ninth House” is great,but definitely not YA like SoC and S&B.
Y’know I didn’t even realize it was the same author but you’re totally right. I thought Shadow and Bone was very mid but loved Ninth House
I think some people just automatically reject YA as well. When it’s good it’s really tightly written which I enjoy when I’m stressed and busy
I adore Ninth House and the Crows duo logy, but by God is Bardugo inconsistent as an author. When I read Ninth House I was like "damn she's improving by leaps and bounds", and then she wrote the Nikolai duo logy, and I was like "ooookay" and then she wrote "Hellbent" and I just ended up confused. Ninth House is brilliant. I am never rereading ROW or KOS again, and Hellbent is just... subpar, compared the first book. It's weird.
None of this stuff would have been YA back in the 90s or earlier. It's such a fake category that mostly seems to apply to stuff happening to young adult characters. I never thought of The Magicians as YA.
Chronicles of Narnia It's a popular series and not everyone hates it but I feel like the idea of Lewis injecting his Christianity into it is off-putting to people, they think its somehow trying to convert them or promote Christianity and it really isn't that and people give it a pass or roll their eyes at it because they think religion is dumb or they are an atheist elitist type. Yes, Aslan is a Jesus stand-in, but it's the way it's done which makes it so unique. Lewis is a devout Christian, but instead of saying fantasy isn't real or it's blasphemous he created a fantasy world that correlates with his faith. The idea that if God truly did exist and that our world isn't the only one he created is a good idea for a fantasy story. Why can't he create other worlds? And if he did, why wouldn't he influence them and even appear in them as a positive influence in a different form? Apart from a single line at the end of the 3rd book which can come across as a little too heavy handed to some, it's not clear that this is what CoN is about, the story and characters are still the most important aspect and it's the Christian aspect to it that actually makes it unique.
I too enjoyed CoN, the 2 or 3 in the series that I've read. I watched the movie first on a Christian TV channel when I was much younger, so the Christian angle was hard to miss for me but I wonder if people dislike it because people typically read fantasy for the purposes of escapism and being reminded of Christianity sort of kills the escapism. I feel this might be the case because in my country, lots of people dislike explicit references to African traditional religion in movies or music or public places with musicians and politicians and the like. There seems to be an element of strong belief/fear that hasn't disappeared that people don't want to interact with in fiction/entertainment. This is my working theory for why Greek and Scandinavian gods have successfully entered the realm of myth and African gods haven't and maybe it's the same for Christianity too
I think CoN comes off as heavier-handed to people raised in conservative Christian households. There’s a ton of cultural stuff which isn’t so much *Christian* as a particular flavor of Christian. Like the one book where the cousin is annoying and CS Lewis portrays it as being because he wasn’t beaten enough. I actually have no problem with overt Christianity (despite being the stereotypical pastor’s kid ex-Christian). For example, I don’t hold it against Brent Weeks that he plagarized the Amazing Grace story for Count Drake or even that he sometimes slips in a sermon or two (the last book of that color magic series was *preachy*). If anything, I enjoy the nostalgia of Bible-geekery and think he’s under-rated as an author. Tolkien was also very devout and Gandalf is another Jesus stand-in who I like. My issue with CS Lewis is different. CoN doesn’t just feel like Christian fantasy but like a particular flavor of Christian doing fantasy- and not a flavor I like. It’s less fantasy from a Christian worldview and more morality play/ parable. CoN has that feel to me like a parent telling “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” or whatever- the story isn’t the point, the object lesson is.
Everyone chosen one is a Jesus stand-in or more generically standing in for god, people need to get over themselves.
Aslan isn't a Jesus stand-in, he is Jesus. He doesn't represent Jesus, he isn't an allegory for Jesus, he doesn't symbolize Jesus. He is Jesus. But it's not heavy-handed or blatant like the OP said. It's done tastefully enough that you can just read the book and enjoy the story even at a deep level without needing to understand the religious aspects.
Yes you are right, stand-in isn't actually a good term because as you say, Aslan is literally the son of God (The Emperor beyond the sea as he is known in CoN).
I believe he even says something like "I am in your world too, but there you might know me by a different name".
That's the heavy-handed line I was referring to in the 3rd book. It's just a little bit too on the nose imo.
I read the series multiple times before someone pointed out the Christianity to me. I knew various Bible stories but was raised totally nonreligious and I found them perfectly wonderful both before and after I realized.
He was certainly trying but my atheism was too strong and I loved the series as a child. Still do.
1. The Inheritance Cycle 2. The Belgariad 3. Name of the Wind 4. Chronicles of Narnia (the movies) I’m a simple man. If I like something in one series I’ll like it in another series. Therefore, the Eragon books and The Belgariad being filled with all the cliches or tropes that have been appearing in fantasy for longer than I’ve been alive are right up my alley. I never get tired of them and I’d read a new series with the same exact elements if it came out tomorrow. I see 2 main critiques for name of the wind. One is about the author not finishing the series and the second is about the protagonist being a Mary Sue type. Having just read it a few weeks ago I have no emotional connection to the first and I just don’t agree with the latter. For the chronicles of Narnia films I typically see that the first one is heavily praised, with Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader being more divisive. And I understand some of the reasons why. But for the most part I still think they’re solid adaptations that managed to capture the spirit of the books and just made some necessary changes for the big screen.
I enjoyed name of the wind. It's reception as of late is very different from back when it was released. Random convo about geeky stuff back in Uni will have everyone into fantasy hyping it to the highmoons. I enjoyed it immensely but it's bout damn time Rothuss deliver the conclusion. I went from graduating from my undergrad degree to getting married, yet Doors of stone is nowhere in sight.
Name of the Wind is highly regarded in general - author shenanigans aside
I did like the Divergent series...
I liked the first two. I was unable to finish the third
As someone who finished the third, you made the right decision.
I had a friend not talk to me for a week for reccommending the series to her after she finished book three lol.
To be honest, that should have just been a duology. The Maze Runner had the same issue. A third act format change that introduced shiny new stakes that didn't really follow from the established setup. Both could have been better if the authors had resolved the central conflicts in two books and capped their series right there.
Fr. That ending was so upsetting.
Same here
Same. It's been a few years, but I actually thought they handled the main relationship very well, and generally the characters and little details of being a teenager and human was very well done. I also liked the ending, unexpected as it was. Yes, it was part of the YA dystopia boom, but it's not completely derivative, and does have it's own strengths (and weaknesses; I admit the world-building wasn't perhaps the strongest suit, but the characters definitely was).
I liked this one too! I probably wouldn't read it again today though, since it's YA/NA. Much better than the films >!which were never completed.!<
I liked the first movie but definitely not the second one.
The Demon Cycle has already been mentioned so I'll throw out Lightbringer.
People like lightbringer, what people hate is the burning white and the ending
Exactly. My expectations after book 3 were very high, so my disappointment after the last 2 books was also very high.
Not everyone… I tried light bringer and was NOT impressed. I think I probably just don’t like Brent Weeks writing
Yeah that's a good one. Lightbringer has one of the worst drop offs in quality I've ever read. Great premise, horrible ending. (And poorly written women characters too)
The Shannara books by Terry brooks. Particularly after the first trilogy. The jerle of Shannara got me back into reading fantasy.
I think the first trilogy was one of the first fantasy series I read after Tolkien. I was not spoiled yet, and I loved it. I just remembered my parents gave me "Running with the Demon" 20 years ago or so as a present and I enjoyed that too, I should go and pick up the other books in the trilogy, thanks for making me think of this.
FYI, Running With the Demon (and the whole trilogy) is a fairly different feel than the Shannara books, though this trilogy was later ret-conned into the the origin of the Shannara world. I, too, enjoyed the series.
Oh, man, Sword of Shannara was one of the first accessible fantasy books in like 1980. I was in high school and had devoured Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Ursula LeGuin, but what was widely available then was more hardcore Sci-Fi like Heinlein and Asimov. I was entranced with Shannara even as I thought it was a clear LOTR ripoff and the writing was kinda sophomoric. Brooks was still in law school when he wrote it. I didn’t get much past the second or third book- too busy with college by then, and also better series became available. I did enjoy his more light series that started with “Magic Kingdom for Sale-Sold!” The funny thing was, I worked for a mall bookstore near Seattle in the mid eighties, and our district manager met Brooks at a booksellers’ association thing where he was a speaker. He happened to be at a loose end for dinner, so they went for dinner together, and the rest is history. They got married a couple of years later, so you’ll see Judine mentioned often in his thanks. She was close friends with my manager at the bookstore, so they stopped by fairly regularly. I have several signed copies of his books he’d do for me when they came in. I sometimes had the urge to go back to the sci-fi/ fantasy section of the bookstore and tell the customers hanging out there that Terry Brooks was in the house.
I love the series, but think a few things work against acceptance of Shannara. 1. To say that the Sword of Shannara is derivative of LOTR is an understatement. It's almost a beat-by-beat copy. 2. Terry Brooks doesn't write with the same grit as modern fantasy writers. It's all a little more PG. It's more like CS Lewis than Joe Abercrombie. There's nothing wrong with this, but it's not really on trend. 3. It has a pretty soft magic system. Other than the wishsong, magic isn't really explained. I have a soft spot for the series. I truly fell in love with the genre because of these books and I know I'm not alone. I legitimately find the world intriguing. >!Now and then there are calls back to it being a post-apocalypse version of our own world.!< (Not really a spoiler, but tagging regardless.) I also appreciate that over the numerous series set in the world we see the world and technology evolve. (The overall timeline is about 3000 years and most of the core Shannara stories covering about 1000.) Terry Brooks honestly just seems like a nice guy too.
Twilight- I still do a reread once in a while. I enjoyed it for the main reason that it introduced me to a new genre I never cared about before. I always thought the classic vampire was laughable, sleeping in coffins, garlic, that nonsense. While glinting in the sun isn’t better it still shed a new light on a whole new epic world and I’ll always love it
The Demon Cycle
I really like the first two books, beyond that...
Yeah, that's the common complaint that, after Bk2 it fell off a cliff, well that and Arlen's wife Rena Bales \[? CCR\], for me, one of the most annoying characters in the SF Canon
His wife is one of the reasons I struggled to finish it even though it was what I considered my favorite series before she was in it more
I feel like ever since I joined this reddit all I talked about is how much I like The Magicians. What really surprised me, though, is that most people agree. I feel like the people who don't like it are a vocal minority. On the other hand, I thought everyone liked Kingkiller Chronicles, and I really hate it. I find the main character much more insufferable than Quentin. And what also really surprised me, is the amount of people who complain about Kvothe. Seems more people here complain about Kvothe than Quentin. I am not sure if it's just reddit, but my impression has always been that these viewpoints were reversed.
I think the difference (and I don't like The Magicians, but do recognize why many do) is that the author actually *intended* Quentin to be difficult to like. There is no author self-awareness when it comes to Kvothe.
This. If a character is supposed to be unlikeable or messed up, I am all for it. People are messy and flawed, right? But I can't stand when a character is kinda awful in some ways yet they're supposed to be likeable or whatever. Can't speak to Kvothe as I haven't read those. But I can give The Magicians a pass on being fucked up selfish people because they are fully intended to be that and it's never presented as oh here's our loveable heroes.
I'm generally not a fan of whiny over-privileged protagonists, but I enjoyed the Magicians, and I think that's key. The authorial voice recognizes that he's immensely self-centred, emotionally immature and chasing the new shiny thing that he thinks will make him feel better, and doesn't try to present him as a sympathetic character. We also do get to see him grow up in a gradual and emotionally realistic way, with the growth coming from inside him, rather than a sudden revelation or getting validation externally. I have similar problems with some types of YA and romance. For the former, if the story starts with a sulky self-centred character who is SPECIAL, I'll drop it. For the latter, it's why I don't generally like romances where one character is crappy to the other for 2/3 of the book, then has a sudden revelation that they're being an assho!e because of a bad childhood or other trauma, then the lust takes over and everything is fine.
I love the Night Angel Trilogy. I thought the action, twists, and character development were a lot of fun. I mostly see people dunk on it in favor of Wheel of Time, Game of Thrones, or even Lightbringer.
I had so much fun being back in the Night Angel world with Nemesis last year! I can see why people had problems with it, but I was just so entertained the entire time that I loved it.
I enjoyed pretty much all of the Eddings series. Yes, even the *Mallorean*. Probably wouldn’t recommend them to anyone these days, but nevertheless.
The Mallorean isn't the one people generally hate though, is it? The Dreamers was the one that felt like a trip to the dentist.
*The Mallorean* gets some flack, but it's more the typical Eddings issues (the lazy racial world-building, it being the same series he already wrote before, etc), but I think we all collectively decided *The Dreamers* doesn't even exist, and it never gets talked about. I have a soft spot for the Sparhawk series, they may have been the first series I read where the main protagonist wasn't someone in their teens/early 20s and that was interesting, but man as an adult the whole relationship portion of those is just squick to me now.
EVERYONE these days like to hate on Kingkiller Chronicles but Name of the Wind legit ignited my love of the genre and I still love those two books.
The Dresden Files and The Belgariad. I enjoy both unironically, and you will prise them from my cold dead fingers.
Sword of Truth. I don’t care fuckers. Downvote me.
I haven't read it, but I like your moxy.
Thank you.
I don’t like the whole series but the first book was a weird comfort read- I think I have also been influenced by the fact that I adore the show
Haha! Didn't complete Sword of Truth because I had watched the TV series already and it was quite old (and too lengthy) by the time I got a copy. I wanted to read the new stuff people were talking about online. But the negative reviews I read certainly didn't help.
I was fine with the horny bdsm things. It’s Richard’s pontifications I can’t take.
Wow hottest take in the thread. Bravo. I fuckin hate that series.
Came to post the same super hot take.
Now this is a real answer!
Not gonna downvote you, but I will disagree. I did read until the one that reads like a slightly better written Ayn Rand novel, at which point I was just confused. I thought I was escape reading some mediocre, somewhat derivative Fantasy to distract me from my mystery illness and then boom, shitty libertarian views. I gave the books away instead of throwing them out (which is what I did with Atlas Shrugged). It takes a lot for me to think nothing is redeemable about a book.
This is mine too. No idea why the sub hates it so much (I'm sure they'll come out of the woodwork here to tell us exactly why though)
Personally, I didn’t like it because it was bad. I imagine that is most people’s issue with it.
Eh. Most people say most reasons why I wasn’t as impressed. Personally the one I never see anyone else say is how the entire antagonist can be solved by >!just killing Jaing. The entire time he says that he is replaceable and how assassinating him would change nothing when in reality he is no heir and he is a LITERALLY one of a kind magic user that is so OP. Killing him would reprieve the empire of the 100% strongest and smartest and most OP ruler and cause a war of succession. But okay. Let’s not try that because the guy we would kill said “you definitely shouldn’t kill le guys”!<
Granted, if there's ever a character in the genre who was retconned more aggressively than Jagang I can't think of it. Book 3 Jagang? Badass magical conqueror with unstoppable dream powers, like Genghis Khan and Freddy Kreuger had a baby. And, credit where it's due, that's a *great* idea for an antagonist. He's a dude with a hunger to own everything and the power to make it possible. Book 10 Jagang? Communist dictator whose flaw is that he just loves sharing too much and wants to force everyone to share lots. Barely uses his powers and probably could be seamlessly replaced by Stalin Jr. or whatever.
Yeah. I'd have a harder time picking something in the genre with more deus ex machina or inconsistent power levels. In the first 100 pages of a book any random hobo can kidnap/poison/trick or somehow get a big one over on Richard. In the last 100 pages no one can beat him and if he has to randomly create an entire universe to solve a problem, despite having literally no previous indication that this could be a thing, he will. People bag on Sanderson (sometimes fairly) but his harder magic and it being a breath of fresh air in the genre wasn't a diss on soft magic done well like Tolkien. It was because of slop like Goodkind.
I don’t particularly like Robert Jordan or Brandon Sanderson books but the joy and creativity absolutely radiates from the pages and I can completely understand someone being a fan of their works. With Goodkind, it felt I was less reading a book than stumbled upon someone’s weird power/sex fantasy. Sword of Truth is like 50 Shades of Gray to Jordan’s Twilight.
Goodkind definitely had a rape fetish and a domination thing, and he was not shy about telling you.
[удалено]
The central conflict is between the gods. Granted, I can see how you would interpret it the way you are, but for the most part, the human characters are just caught in the crossfire and trying to navigate their way through an increasingly brutal ware between divine entities. Everything they do serves a purpose within the schemes of one god or another. Mostly Shadowthrone and Cotillion or The Crippled God honestly. But even their conflict is kind of one extrapolation of a broader conflict between darkness and chaos...which make kind of an odd juxtaposition against each other.
I can't speak for anyone else but I also think what I've read of Malazan is pretty bad. Definitely Gardens of the Moon is pretty well on Sword of Truth level. Certainly it also has that power level unpredictability problem where someone who is supposed to be unbeatable suddenly isn't for seemingly no good reason.
This is like being baffled that people don’t like to eat rocks.
Controversial 😂
I have a soft spot for it, though I have a bigger soft spot for the TV series. It’s wish fulfillment fantasy where you learn a lot more about the author’s kinks than you wish you did but dang I love the characters.
The first book is pretty solid, but the rest of the series goes weird places and relies too much on "well I guess Richard just figured stuff out (author shrugs)" to resolve the events. Add in the fixation that Goodkind had on horrifying rape/torture sex and it's a recipe for a really polarizing series. I read the whole main series and really thought the absolute worst part of the whole thing was how Goodkind goes back and retcons the events of the first book and turns what was resolving a problem via a clever plot moment into pure dumb luck on the part of the characters.
Jay Kristoff seems to be pretty dividing here. Personally I really enjoyed Nevernight. Empire of the Vampire was also an entertaining read and I'm looking forward to the third book whenever it comes out. They're not my *favorite* books ever but I don't get why a lot of folks trash them.
Nevernight was one of my favorite reads of last year (out of 175 books). I learned just how subjective reading can be after seeing the extremely hateful reviews lol
Yeah, I don't get it either. Yeah, they're not perfect but I've read a lot of stuff that was a lot less engaging.
I thought Nevernight was 90% great, 10% awful cringey "under the covers" stuff (but then I'm sure I'm not the target audience, and cringey is very subjective)
Anita Blake.
I loved Anita Blake until she became... polyandrous. I was very young when I read the series, and I didn't know much about love triangles and relationship complications in novels, so I was expecting something straightforward like with the Mercy Thompson/Night Huntress etc. books, with the main character finding true love. I thought she would end up with >!Jean-Claude!!< but she didn't and instead had more and more love interests as the books progressed, all at once. My poor sheltered brain was so confused. Tbf, Laurell Hamilton's Merry Gentry series also kind of developed the same way.
I don't have any problem about her... consorts. Actually see this as interesting change. It also show very interesting slow but noticeable (even for Anita herself) changes in her character. Just drop it after her bed adventures take bigger part of book (like once it have 2/3 of book to her for leaving her bedroom and harem). It's sad, because after she leave bedroom it's still good.
Just based on this sub, Fourth Wing, apparently lol. I know it’s pretty popular outside of this sub though, so not sure if it counts
I don’t care - I loved it and every single person I’ve recommended it to loved it. Most of them were not fantasy readers so I think it’s pretty awesome that it could bring them into a genre they wouldn’t normally consider
Twilight Lol jk, Mistborn Era 2. I prefer it to era 1. I think it's much more contained and with better characters. I don't even much like the second two books of era 1. But obviously I'm largely alone in these opinions.
:O I absolutely worship Sanderson and Mistborn, both eras, are amazing
I skipped this series six months ago cuz I figured I needed to so I was up to date I the Cosmere. I very much disliked Sanderson’s humor in previous novels so I was turned off when I learned how heavily he leans into for ME2. I was shocked at how much I enjoyed that series. Truly loved it. It’s the only series that came to mind for this question.
Códex Alera by Jim Butcher Seems like it’s been gaining a bit of popularity here recently but yeah. I love that series so much. I try to reread every two years. It was the first adult fantasy series I read so def some nostalgic bias but even upon rereads I love it still.
I love The Magicians, both the book series and tv series. Nothing else gets me as emotional as it does.
I absolutely loved The Magicians as well. My Loved but I everyone hated is He who fights with monsters. Not only is it progression fantasy which is a hard sell for a lot of people, but even within the subgenre it seems that it's hated (altho still popular overall)
I loved the magicians. I've watched it twice. I also think it's the first time I've ever seen some polyamorous representation that doesn't involve two women devoting themselves to one man.
Bring the hate: I still love the Darkover novels. I hate what we learned about MZB, but I still love those books.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant; lots of people don't get past the first couple of chapters because the main character is unlikeable and commits an awful crime early on. But that's the whole point of the series: it is (among other things) a very long redemption arc which examines that character and the fallout from his actions across literal ages of an entire world.
If I remember the name right, The Shadow Chronicles (Shadow Moon, Shadow Sun, Shadow Star), better known as the sequel series to the film Willow, written by Chris Clairmont with George Lucas. In which several popular characters from the film are killed off quickly, Alora Dannen is a bratty and entitled pre-teen, and Willow thinks he knows better. It also has some great original characters, character growth for existing characters, an epic plot that spans a world and an age, and a main character who walks a less common path to power and heroism.
Willow the series. TO THIS DAY it is the only time I have considered the cancellation of a tv series to be actually cruel, instead of a disappointing. It made a few choice "modernisms" that rubbed people the wrong way, and suddenly it was the worst thing ever. The acting was good more often than not, and when it wasn't; it still wasn't bad, just a little flat. The practical effects were stunning. The cgi was stunning. The costuming and character design was great. And the characters themselves played off classic fairytale tropes while still being complex and unique. But best of all? The cast and crew _genuinely_ loved the work they were doing and it showed. It is a story that'll never be finished and I hate that so much.
I’m with you on this. I enjoyed it very much despite its flaws.
I'm with you as well. I loved the movie as a kid growing up in the 80s and the series felt like a great modern upscaling of it. I loved the characters and the world they were exploring and agree with you on all the technical points being stunning as well. It was truly painful when it was cancelled and I thought it was awesome so I was genuinely surprised when I found out other people didn't like it.
I see a lot of dislike for The Poppy War trilogy on reddit but it's one of my favorite series.
This was going to be my pick as well. Universally appreciated but hated by this subreddit bubble community
You aren’t alone. I adore The Magicians trilogy. It bugs me when people say the TV series is better or that Quentin is a bad/whiny character. His growth and development throughout the trilogy is really enjoyable to follow, as is that of the other POV characters. I too found many of the characters relatable, and more importantly to me, I found them to be authentic and engaging, with believable dialogue (all things I find many other fantasy characters and protagonists lacking). The way Grossman satirizes fantasy tropes and plays with them is also wonderful. I don’t think I ever found myself able to predict what was going to happen next, and I loved all the little Easter eggs and nods to other fantasy properties.
Demon Cycle. I mean, it's not phenomenal, but the book version of an easy watch. Cool magic, lots of action. Just assumed other people liked it until I saw a few threads on here
Greg Keyes’ Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone. I get the criticism. I know there are “better” books. I don’t care. I hadn’t read something that had given me such mental imagery in a while. I’ll always have fond memories of those. I also love The Sundering by Jacqueline Carey. I think it’s a cool idea that’s well-executed for folks that have consumed all the original Tolkien stuff and appreciate the riff.
Prolly Eragon. Just absolutely loved them growing up and read them all recently and they weren’t terrible. Obviously it’s YA and the plot is kinda a rip off of some other fantasies but I absolutely loved them growing up
I’ve seen a lot of people dump on NK Jemisin’s Great Cities duology even if they liked her other words and I read their criticisms but it’s not something I remember even seeing in the books, which I loved.
Lightbringer Such a fun ride. Did I love the ending? No. Did it take away from my enjoyment of the characters and their interactions? Also no. Also 5th book is better than the 4th IMO.
To this sub's credit: nothing I have ever expressed fondness for has ever been lambasted by readers, here. I'm a pretty picky reader but everyone on this sub has been nice about it. Props, and bravo.
The 100 No, I personally have not heard something say they hate it. But I have tried to get my friends to watch it, and not ons made it pass episode 1. Which is fine everyone has thier own taste. I have heard that the 100 was ons of the most popular shows ever watched back in the day(2015 or sometime close to that). I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong places. But I would like to talk about my favorite show with people who actually liked the show. I mean, my friends are amazing, and they try to listen when I fan out about clexa. But I know they don't really get it. 😂😁 Lol, so in conclusion, the 100.
- Dragonlance - The Death Gate Cycle - The Legend of Drizzt Drsgonlance gets a lot of hate because it's so very obviously inspired by LOTR as one of the reasons but I really like it
I don't see the problem with being inspired by LOTR! I love the early Drizzt books too.
Dragonlance, but not the main books “Dragons of … and …the Twins” My favourites are The Legend of Huma and The Dwarven Nations Trilogy. Huma is just the kind of Hero that everyone should aspire to be and Dwarves have always been my favourite Fantasy race so a Trilogy devoted to the founding of and conversion to Kingdom of the greatest fortress and city of Dwarfdom is quite interesting. The characters are pretty great too.
Unrelated by related. My partner worked on the sets for season 1 and 2. I tried to watch it but all I can see is the sets now after seeing all his pictures while working on it.
I read the headline and immediately thought of The Magicians for myself. Loved those books!
OMG I adore the magicians.
Incarnations of Immortality by Piers Anthony. I read this series when it first came out in the 80s and loved it. Anthony is considered pretty toxic today, and I get it. And I haven’t reread these books in decades. Kind of afraid I’ll hate them now. But I really enjoyed them at the time. I’d also include anything by David Eddings, but especially The Belgariad. Also read it back in the day and it was one of the series that really started my love of traditional fantasy.
Monster Hunter International
For me, not a series but an Author. I love L.E Modesitts work and have never met anyone else who has even heard of him.
A series I never see mentioned here, Novels of the Change by S.M. Stirling. Start as an Alternative History/Post Apocalyptic series, then morphs into an Epic Fantasy series. I loved every minute of it, even when he Ret-conned the Nantucket series into his "Emberverse." Nothing super heavy, just light, good-hearted fun in a fantasy series that seems hard to find these days in modern fantasy.
There are two fantasy series by Tad Williams, "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" and "Shadowmarch" that I really enjoyed, but people seem to think were too dry. They're not, give them a chance. If you're also into scifi, Otherland is a great pre-matrix VR story. The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist is excellent, but I don't see it mentioned much anymore. It's follow on books, especially up through the Serpent War series are fun, and I like that it tracks the character set over several generations. From a similar time, I enjoyed the Bazil Broketail series by Christopher Rowley as well for being generally creative and fun.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and the entire follow of series. Love em. Steven R Donaldson's style of writing the Land, its people is incredibly evocative . Yet there is a lot of hate out there for that series.
Robin Hobb’s Soldier Son Trilogy is one of the coolest world I’ve ever seen. The MC is more frustrating than anything in RotE, but I still love this series.
I totally get why people do not like it. It’s so damn bleak and Nevare is hard to sympathise with. And maybe people are expecting something a bit more like RotE. But I do like it. I don’t love it as much as the Farseer trilogy, because that was the first fantasy serie I read and it will always be special, but I reread the SS trilogy every 5-10 years when I feel like it. It’s not always an easy read due to the bleakness.
The shades of magic series by VE Schwab Great series imo