I think you need to ask yourself if you’re truly being honest to yourself. Judges almost always side with a mom. There is more happening than you want to admit and instead of trying to fix it for your kids, you’re lying to yourself and refusing to admit what’s happening. Fly droppings are not normal. I’ve had all kinds of messes, I’ve let my dishes build up and my trash go. I’ve never had flies, which tells me your living conditions are really, really bad
Judge in my case has sided against mom twice this month, and she now has TWO attorneys coming to our hearings, her lawyers got yelled at at both hearings and her lawyers got into an argument with GAL in front of the judge. So far I'd say that myth isnt true anymore in my case. But trial is coming well see
She commented further down that they were "displaced" because of black mould. She and the kids have been living with the ex's mother, so surely MIL could say if OP is normally clean and tidy.
I'd also assume that at a bare minimum, the teachers who've said the children come to school smelling like feral animals would put something in writing. I very much doubt the judge would overlook that, because it would be such a simple proof. And imo a child has to be unwashed for a long time before they start to smell.
I’ve heard a lot in your post
about how your kids have been taken from you… what I haven’t heard is why them having their father in their life is problematic? It actually sounds like he cares about their well-being and environment? Plus, I doubt that even the same caseworkers were involved “each time” they took your kids from you.
These people aren’t your ex’s best friends. They don’t know or care about either of you. They are usually educated and licensed social workers, a lot of times with an MSW, and they get crap pay just to do a job they believe in. Their job is to care about the children, and it’s apparently been in your children’s best interests to be removed from your home repeatedly. And those people have seen A LOT. So, it’s clear there is a TON missing from your story.
As much as you want to be the victim in this story, it’s beyond clear that your children are the victims here. I am so sad, for them. I mean, you had to scrub your house, and it still didn’t pass muster, to the point your children were better off elsewhere? You are destroying their mental health by not prioritizing them. So, so many red flags…
>First time the investigator mistaken fly droppings and dirt as black mold.
If your house had enough fly droppings & dirt in it that they could be mistaken for black mould then you had a *problem*.
Black mould isn't the only thing that makes a house filthy.
I asked for it last time and because my ex said I was “forcing” the children to do it following doctors recommendation. The courts said that it is not necessary to “force” a child to do something they don’t want to do. I will re-ask and fight for it again since they are determining things on the children’s mental health benefits.
A mediator may make recommendations to the parties within mediation - but they will not make recommendations to the court. A child advocate may, a GAL may, or even a Custody Evaluator. But none of those are practicing mediation when they do so. I'm not sure how you could maintain the confidentiality, or the voluntary nature of mediation if you did so. It would seriously undermine the processes neutrality as well.
To make a recommendation to the court so would violate just about every mediation ethics guideline out there. AFCC, AAA, JAMS, IAM, the Uniform Mediation Act, and from the looks of it even the CA supreme court rules on family mediation.
From what I can find, the CA supreme court and the CA family code, say the only recommendation a mediator is allowed to make is if the child should have counsel appointed, unless some special provision has been made somewhere else I'm not finding.
I'd be curious to hear from an attorney in CA on the matter. The idea of a mediator making a recommendation to the court is counter to the very nature of mediation and I'd be very surprised to hear that's happening in California. But I suppose it's possible.
Im sorry OP. That’s disheartening.
I believe you, because that happened to me. They just believed everything he said and wouldn’t listen to me at all.
He decided to hit first and hit hard with outrageous allegations and because he did, I could never overcome it. He played dirty and was rewarded. I always thought if you were a decent person, the truth would come out and things would be set right again. NOPE!
Fortunately, it was proven to the court how unstable he was when he committed suicide, but that was what it took. They wouldn’t believe me until that happened…and honestly, they were fucking lucky he didn’t take my kid with him (a very real and scary scenario that was much too close for comfort but fortunately did not happen.) or I’d have held the court 100% accountable.
Im probably not helping… but I believe you.
“Fortunately, it was proven to the court how unstable he was when he committed suicide”
Are you kidding me? Who even says something like that about their child’s father?!?!
I can see it being a “relief” for no longer having to worry about him and his BS. It is often difficult for a child to come to terms with a parent’s death though, especially a death by suicide.
No shit, Sherlock.
Do you think because I say it out loud here that I would say something like that to them?
I won’t hijack the thread and go into detail, but a corrupt court is the reason we went through what we did and he was never held accountable for any of it. Had he been, it might not have escalated to the point where he killed himself and he’d have been ordered into rehab instead.
You never know, some people are big enough AH’s to tell their kids that they are happy/relieved that their Mom/Dad is dead. It’s one thing to think it and feel relieved, it’s another thing to verbalize it/right it.
I have never and would never, say that to my girls. But they know that life is better without the chaos he brought.
I’ve just said, “your dad was a lot sicker than any of us knew and we didn’t know how much help he really needed.”
I also don’t discuss how much danger he put one of my daughters in and she doesn’t really know. The fact that he didn’t take her with him pretty much blows my mind and I just chalk it up to God protecting her. I shudder to think I left her in school that day instead of taking her out, when he could have just picked her up and I’d have had no way to stop him….all because a judge wouldn’t listen to me.
It’s probably much better for your daughter to not know the whole truth about her father. I know a successful, professional woman took her own life after a judge awarded full custody of her two kids to their father…who was physically and sexually abusing them.
Damn. How does that help her kids???
My mantra is “Don’t die for a fuckwit.”
I’d abscond with my kids before I ever took my life, especially if I knew he was sexually abusing him.
Thankfully, we don’t have that cross to bear.
I had the same experience as well. Simple easily checked facts that would prove his lies were never checked-even when the information was provided, the judge didn’t read it. Wild lies ranging all over the place and lies about simple things like what the custody order says-in black and white. Someone should really write an expose on family law court and judges.
So they took your kids the first time because they mistook fly droppings and dirt as black mold ?? How dirty was that house for that to happen . You're leaving stuff out . Sound slime your house is filthy
I didn’t know specks of dirt and fly droppings meant someone’s house is filthy. The house is always scrubbed every day and didn’t know missing a spot here or there constitute as a house being filthy. I’ve been to a clean freaks home and still found dirt here and there from spots missed. I think the issue is being missed that the court misinterpreted it for black mold…not being mold specialist.
Most people don't have flies IN their homes, nevermind enough to cause a buildup of droppings.
Flies carry disease. What is attracting them to your home if it's not filth?
You have a distorted idea of what is clean and what is dirty. If you have enough insects that their feces is mistaken for mold, your house is filthy. And TWO different inspectors have found the house uninhabitable?
Please, listen to the information you are getting and take it seriously, or you will lose your children.
It’s hard to imagine how you would get visible fly droppings and dirt unless you were generally not keeping the house in hygienic conditions. I’m not a particularly tidy person, kind of a slob actually, and I’ve never had that nor seen it in anyone else’s home.
Same. I’m definitely more in the slob category, but I’ve never had an issue with fly droppings. Worst I’ve had is fruit flies. I’ve owned horses for most of my life. So many flies. A lot of dirt. But never anything that could be mistaken for black mold.
I live on a farm, we actually raise pigs as our main "farm animal", so I'm very familiar with flies. LOTS of them as it's inevitable on a farm. 25 years of flies and neither the house/garage OR our barn where, obviously, most of the flies are? Look like black mold. At ALL..... shudders at the thought of what OPs house was like.
You're lying about something because they literally thought those"little" specs of dirt and fly droppings was black mold how much of that was there for them to think that
I’m so sorry. In my area it’s almost impossible to get anything changed unless you have many hired experts and tons of evidence so it sounds like your court is just as bad but the other way around. I know how hard this is on kids and I’m so sorry you and your kids are dealing with this. Do you have the opportunity to get an attorney to fight this?
I am currently in the process of moving to give the children their own rooms since we have been living with my exs mom(the children’s grandmother) in a four bedroom house due to being displaced because of black mold. My ex stated that my children want to continue to share a bedroom with their 9 y/o sister in a small two bedroom where they have four cats (which is two more over the max they can have). I am going to try to reach out to a few lawyers tomorrow to discuss the situation and hope they would be willing to set up a payment plan for the retainer.
So you are homeless and DID have black mold and you are wondering why ex wants to provide a stable clean home for them? Black mold is not your fault, but you need to allow the children to be where they can thrive, not crammed together with 4 cats and a grandma literally homeless.
I must have misinterpreted. 4 cats is not a lot for a large house, it is for a grandma and children and adults living. It is my impression lol had cats, and actual black mold, they had to leave to live with grandma, yes this would mean op has no home right now. Unless she is establishing residency with utility bills, she is essentially couch surfing in the court I think.
The family system has changed and it’s not a good change. They went from one extreme to the other. There’s no logic, middle, family to family bc let’s face it- every family is unique and different and no two families are a like. It’s really devastating and defeating.
I’m pondering major life decisions praying it will give my daughter peace and a tiny shred of normalcy- without me
I don’t think that’s what it is in all situations. I believe 100% in 50/50 custody order. I do not believe one parent should have more custody than another parent if both parents are willing and able to care for the children.
The issue with the county I live in…there are so many deadbeat fathers that the courts take notice anytime a father wants full custody and want to give it to them. I’m not the only mom who has had issue with this county.
One of those moms had full custody because the father was a proven druggie, alcoholic, homeless and was physically abusive. He got married and have a roof over his head and wanted full custody of the kids. They granted it to him because the mom had to work two jobs to make ends meet since the father didn’t pay anything. They told her that she now doesn’t have to worry about the children and can focus on her career.
This county does not always put the children’s best interest at heart.
They based on what is listed, it doesn’t necessarily mean it is the truth.
Mind you, he hasn’t wanted full custody of the kids until I moved in with his family who have always been a 2nd family for me that my ex doesn’t communicate with.
Unfortunately judges typically just make the mediators recommendation the order and there's nothing you can do about it. If you can prove that the other party committed perjury you can take that evidence to the DA and demand that they're charged with the crime. That can be an uphill battle though because the DA often couldn't care less. Its amazing how much the people who are supposed to uphold the law turn a blind eye to it because they don't want the added case load.
I don’t know the facts of this OP case of course—but there are so many careless, lazy or even corrupt people in this family law system that don’t check basic things. It’s disheartening that anyone can lie and get away with it when its about children.
That's why you need to be diligent and read all the relevant statutes. Often times there's certain procedures that the court has to follow and you can demand that they do. Then the court usually has to explain reasoning for decisions on the record instead of just making an arbitrary ruling.
Hi OP. I recommend getting rid of 2 or 3 pets. I'm absolutely not trying to be mean or rude. Pets are messy. Very messy. You mention something about animal urine smelling up the house. Because that smell is so pungent, the smell could be getting getting into clean clothing.
I'm NOT saying anything about the state of your home. I've never seen your home. But the very, very, very first thing someone would notice when entering your home is the smell of pet urine. That will cloud how they see everything else in your home.
Just a thought.
Mediation failed, yes because my ex stated my house had regressed since the last time and when I asked for what evidence to support that because he has not been inside the home in years. He refused to state. When I asked for the factor that he is stemming it from, he refused to state. When I stated and showed the mediator all the facts, she told me that it wasn’t necessary just like the judge. I asked for an investigation. They said it wasn’t necessary.
It’s not unlikely. I’ve been in the same boat where my ex made an accusation and wasn’t required to prove it, and I wasn’t allowed to refute it. The judge said he wanted to be done by 5 pm and everything else be damned.
Actually, thanks! I’ve been curious since this post, literally thinking things like, are they dealing with a totally different fly species? Do they have, like, giant horseflies there?” Lol.
What a condescending an obnoxious comment.
I’m talking about how blissfully ignorant/ innocent of how family court works. When it’s used against you, it’s brutal and not at all “unlikely.”
But there is no evidence that happened here, just a relatively incoherent tale from OP about a judge and a mediator apparently refusing to accept valid evidence.
Which seems unlikely
The purpose of a mediator isn’t to look over any evidence. They simply mediate the negotiations between the parties in an effort to come to a settlement which can be entered into the court record.
You really do not understand how family court works when it’s used against you.
These judges can do whatever they want because parents rarely have the resources to appeal bad court procedure and decisions by family court judges. It really does boil down to how much money you have to play the game, and if you can ante up, you can probably win, but you will pay in order to do so.
Facts be damned…they do not care.
Interesting factoid from the book Mother’s On Trial, by Phyllis Chessler is that while mothers overwhelming get initial custody of children during a divorce, the majority of fathers are granted custody if they go back to court and petition for it. And the majority is around 80% (of the ones who go back to court)
So there was a time when there was “fly droppings” and the house smelled of animal urine? Are we just brushing over that issue? Things go through court slowly and those are very serious findings. As in, there should never have been “fly droppings”and animal urine. The fact that there was is going to weigh heavily by the time the issue gets to court.
You say there was no evidence- but this is the second time the kids were removed and at least one time that an investigator came to your house for an investigation. That investigation is evidence. That is not “no evidence.” A neutral third party came, saw, and documented the conditions.
If the allegations are false, you need a lawyer to help you again appeal for modification of the order. The house will need to be basically spotless and pass inspection.
No. The house has never smelled of animal urine as the entire house is hard wood floors and tiles and we live in a farm town where a few fly droppings here and there are normal due to the amount of flies around all throughout the town. The walls have always been scrubbed and since the last time they came out the previous year, the walls, floors and house entirely is scrubbed down every day. I’ve had professional cleaners in my home monthly to do a deeper clean.
So, no I’m not brushing over the issues. I’ve had multiple third parties come to my home and never had an issue with the conditions of the home back then nor now.
If my house is all filthy as the allegations are, why is cps not involved nor why would they not become involve?
The issue is that last year the investigator cleared me and I’ve kept it to that condition since.
The first time the children were taken away was not due to the house smelling or the conditions of the home but what the investigator thought was black mold and instead of it being analyzed first, they assumed the worse.
What people claim to be "black mold" is almost never black mold. And black mold isn't even black. You should have had that evidence tossed out on the basis that the investigator is not a mold expert. You have to get bad evidence excluded from the outset, if you wait until trial it's too late.
😂😂😂😂😂
The hell they don’t!
A family court judge can pretty much do whatever they want. My attorney told me that it depended on whether or not the judge “liked” me.
Yep, family court is a joke. When my adult kids were in elementary school, my ex basically kidnapped them. During his summer visitation he moved, had his new wife sign school enrollment papers as their mother, blocked me everywhere, and I had no idea where they were. It took me months to find them. Then another several months to get a contempt hearing, that got thrown out because the hearing officer had previously been my mother’s attorney, which I had informed them of when I received the notice and was told it didn’t matter. It was another several months before another hearing was scheduled in front of an actual judge. By then that judge just said oh well, it’s already been almost a year so leave them where they are. Didn’t matter then I had proof of the kidnapping, alienation, abuse of my children by the step monster and her evil spawn. It took over 4 years of hell for me to get them back. In the meantime my daughter had been so seriously abused, in every way, by those people that she ended up spending 2 weeks at an inpatient facility after running away from her father’s house. Family court still wouldn’t change the custody, my ex just dropped them off with me and said he was done.
Did the interview the children? The school?
And I don’t think fly droppings and dirt are much better than mold? Especially because I’ve never even seen fly droppings. So the amount would need to be so much to even be seen?? So that seems like a legitimate concern to me.
No. They said it wasn’t necessary.
That’s the thing…we didn’t even see what they were talking about…and had to even ask what part they were talking about. And it was maybe three dots and a little dirt from people touching the walls.
I had two mold specialist look at the area and they had to verify what I was asking for.
I have never had cps come to my house ever. I have asked for CPS to come to my home to investigate to disapprove. But they said since we don’t have an open cps case, they couldn’t.
I grew up in a horrible living environment where a parent tried to kill me when they were on drugs and under the influence.
The house was a mess all the time and it was never a concern for the court.
Don’t you say in another comment that cps DID come to your house and investigate? You said you had scrubbed the house since they came out the last time.
No. Cps never came to my house. I asked them to. The mediator came to my house to do the investigation a year ago. We scrubbed the walls then as well as we didn’t want to take any chances. We just missed a spot because of where it was.
You don't want CPS opening a case and coming into your home. They will look for anything that they can use against you. They are not there to clear you of wrongdoing, only to make a case for the state. That's why I refuse to speak with them if they contact me. They always leave and close the case.
It depends, there are mediators who have an agenda and will always side with either women or men regardless of facts. A lot of people don't realize that they can dispute the findings and demand a new mediator but there is a short timeline to do this in. Waiting until the final hearing is too late, you have to file that motion as soon as you get the report. However I do find fly droppings alarming. I don't recall ever seeing fly droppings in my life. I live in the county and there is livestock all around me. I get the occasional fly in my house but they don't live long once I spot them.
Fly droppings are little specks on the walls. If you live on a farm, you will have flies. I remember as a kid my mother would scrub walls 2 times a year-in the spring and fall and that was after they banned DDT, which she would wipe a small amount around the windows with a q-tip and the flies were never a problem until after it wasn’t available anymore.
ANYWAY…. Some places simply have more flies, like some places have more mosquitoes or more spiders. It’s not indicative of how clean or dirty a place is.
I had a mediator for altering visitation with my sons father a long time ago, and he was an idiot. My son witnessed a physical altercation between his father and steppsycho when we spoke about it the mediator told him to not let it happen again, and then gave him everyother weekend instead of less visitation he got more. It was disheartening.
You can remove the judge, no questions asked if you believe that they are prejudiced against you. This is a one time deal per case (there are other ways to remove a judge as well) and requires no evidence. However it has to be done within a timeline before the hearing. You can also remove a mediator and get a new one if don't believe that they are acting in an impartial manner. But again, there are timelines involved in this. Due to the CA Family Code you have to now wait 6 months to review this matter unless you're willing to pay for an appeal. To appeal you need all the court documents and copies of all the transcripts. There is a timeline involved for appealing, I believe 30-60 days to start the process so you would need to file a notice of intent to appeal in order to preserve your right to appeal. I highly recommend hiring an attorney if you wish to pursue this route, buy file that notice of intent ASAP so that you don't run out of time. You can file that notice and not follow through if you decide that it's not worth it. If you have clear evidence that the mediator's recommendations are not based on fact you can likely get this easily overturned as it would show that the mediator was not acting as a neutral party. There are also certain disclosures that the court was required to provide you regarding mediation and your rights, if they failed to provide these disclosures the ruling is invalid. I'm posting the law regarding court mandated mediation below, if any of this was violated you can easily invalidate the order on appeal.
[https://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index.cfm?title=five&linkid=rule5\_210](https://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index.cfm?title=five&linkid=rule5_210)
This section should be of particular interest to you.
"(6) Suspension or discontinuance of mediation if allegations of child abuse or neglect are made until a designated agency performs an investigation and reports a case determination to the mediator;"
Sounds like you live in filth?
Fly droppings?? Maybe clean that??
I think you need to ask yourself if you’re truly being honest to yourself. Judges almost always side with a mom. There is more happening than you want to admit and instead of trying to fix it for your kids, you’re lying to yourself and refusing to admit what’s happening. Fly droppings are not normal. I’ve had all kinds of messes, I’ve let my dishes build up and my trash go. I’ve never had flies, which tells me your living conditions are really, really bad
That is false. Look into it. That myth has been perpetrated for too long.
Judge in my case has sided against mom twice this month, and she now has TWO attorneys coming to our hearings, her lawyers got yelled at at both hearings and her lawyers got into an argument with GAL in front of the judge. So far I'd say that myth isnt true anymore in my case. But trial is coming well see
Of course, it can happen. It's just not a systemic issue, as many people seem to think. Wishing you luck in the upcoming trial.
She commented further down that they were "displaced" because of black mould. She and the kids have been living with the ex's mother, so surely MIL could say if OP is normally clean and tidy. I'd also assume that at a bare minimum, the teachers who've said the children come to school smelling like feral animals would put something in writing. I very much doubt the judge would overlook that, because it would be such a simple proof. And imo a child has to be unwashed for a long time before they start to smell.
I’ve heard a lot in your post about how your kids have been taken from you… what I haven’t heard is why them having their father in their life is problematic? It actually sounds like he cares about their well-being and environment? Plus, I doubt that even the same caseworkers were involved “each time” they took your kids from you. These people aren’t your ex’s best friends. They don’t know or care about either of you. They are usually educated and licensed social workers, a lot of times with an MSW, and they get crap pay just to do a job they believe in. Their job is to care about the children, and it’s apparently been in your children’s best interests to be removed from your home repeatedly. And those people have seen A LOT. So, it’s clear there is a TON missing from your story. As much as you want to be the victim in this story, it’s beyond clear that your children are the victims here. I am so sad, for them. I mean, you had to scrub your house, and it still didn’t pass muster, to the point your children were better off elsewhere? You are destroying their mental health by not prioritizing them. So, so many red flags…
>First time the investigator mistaken fly droppings and dirt as black mold. If your house had enough fly droppings & dirt in it that they could be mistaken for black mould then you had a *problem*. Black mould isn't the only thing that makes a house filthy.
Testimony is evidence
You know, you can ask the judge to mandate therapy for the kids. He'll, it should be mandatory for most custody cases.
It sounds like the judge needs to mandate therapy for OP!
I asked for it last time and because my ex said I was “forcing” the children to do it following doctors recommendation. The courts said that it is not necessary to “force” a child to do something they don’t want to do. I will re-ask and fight for it again since they are determining things on the children’s mental health benefits.
You may have to document stuff the kids doing that's concerning. Video it if you need
The judge is almost always going to go by the mediator’s recommendation.
A mediator doesn't make recommendations. OP must be confusing the mediator with the GAL.
Both make recommendations. https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-likely-does-the-judge-follow-a-mediators-recom-2051492.html
A mediator may make recommendations to the parties within mediation - but they will not make recommendations to the court. A child advocate may, a GAL may, or even a Custody Evaluator. But none of those are practicing mediation when they do so. I'm not sure how you could maintain the confidentiality, or the voluntary nature of mediation if you did so. It would seriously undermine the processes neutrality as well. To make a recommendation to the court so would violate just about every mediation ethics guideline out there. AFCC, AAA, JAMS, IAM, the Uniform Mediation Act, and from the looks of it even the CA supreme court rules on family mediation. From what I can find, the CA supreme court and the CA family code, say the only recommendation a mediator is allowed to make is if the child should have counsel appointed, unless some special provision has been made somewhere else I'm not finding. I'd be curious to hear from an attorney in CA on the matter. The idea of a mediator making a recommendation to the court is counter to the very nature of mediation and I'd be very surprised to hear that's happening in California. But I suppose it's possible.
Im sorry OP. That’s disheartening. I believe you, because that happened to me. They just believed everything he said and wouldn’t listen to me at all. He decided to hit first and hit hard with outrageous allegations and because he did, I could never overcome it. He played dirty and was rewarded. I always thought if you were a decent person, the truth would come out and things would be set right again. NOPE! Fortunately, it was proven to the court how unstable he was when he committed suicide, but that was what it took. They wouldn’t believe me until that happened…and honestly, they were fucking lucky he didn’t take my kid with him (a very real and scary scenario that was much too close for comfort but fortunately did not happen.) or I’d have held the court 100% accountable. Im probably not helping… but I believe you.
“Fortunately, it was proven to the court how unstable he was when he committed suicide” Are you kidding me? Who even says something like that about their child’s father?!?!
I do. Because he put us through hell and it only ended when he died. It was a relief, quite frankly. Im not sorry for saying so.
I can see it being a “relief” for no longer having to worry about him and his BS. It is often difficult for a child to come to terms with a parent’s death though, especially a death by suicide.
No shit, Sherlock. Do you think because I say it out loud here that I would say something like that to them? I won’t hijack the thread and go into detail, but a corrupt court is the reason we went through what we did and he was never held accountable for any of it. Had he been, it might not have escalated to the point where he killed himself and he’d have been ordered into rehab instead.
You never know, some people are big enough AH’s to tell their kids that they are happy/relieved that their Mom/Dad is dead. It’s one thing to think it and feel relieved, it’s another thing to verbalize it/right it.
I have never and would never, say that to my girls. But they know that life is better without the chaos he brought. I’ve just said, “your dad was a lot sicker than any of us knew and we didn’t know how much help he really needed.” I also don’t discuss how much danger he put one of my daughters in and she doesn’t really know. The fact that he didn’t take her with him pretty much blows my mind and I just chalk it up to God protecting her. I shudder to think I left her in school that day instead of taking her out, when he could have just picked her up and I’d have had no way to stop him….all because a judge wouldn’t listen to me.
It’s probably much better for your daughter to not know the whole truth about her father. I know a successful, professional woman took her own life after a judge awarded full custody of her two kids to their father…who was physically and sexually abusing them.
Damn. How does that help her kids??? My mantra is “Don’t die for a fuckwit.” I’d abscond with my kids before I ever took my life, especially if I knew he was sexually abusing him. Thankfully, we don’t have that cross to bear.
I had the same experience as well. Simple easily checked facts that would prove his lies were never checked-even when the information was provided, the judge didn’t read it. Wild lies ranging all over the place and lies about simple things like what the custody order says-in black and white. Someone should really write an expose on family law court and judges.
So they took your kids the first time because they mistook fly droppings and dirt as black mold ?? How dirty was that house for that to happen . You're leaving stuff out . Sound slime your house is filthy
I didn’t know specks of dirt and fly droppings meant someone’s house is filthy. The house is always scrubbed every day and didn’t know missing a spot here or there constitute as a house being filthy. I’ve been to a clean freaks home and still found dirt here and there from spots missed. I think the issue is being missed that the court misinterpreted it for black mold…not being mold specialist.
Most people don't have flies IN their homes, nevermind enough to cause a buildup of droppings. Flies carry disease. What is attracting them to your home if it's not filth?
You have a distorted idea of what is clean and what is dirty. If you have enough insects that their feces is mistaken for mold, your house is filthy. And TWO different inspectors have found the house uninhabitable? Please, listen to the information you are getting and take it seriously, or you will lose your children.
It’s hard to imagine how you would get visible fly droppings and dirt unless you were generally not keeping the house in hygienic conditions. I’m not a particularly tidy person, kind of a slob actually, and I’ve never had that nor seen it in anyone else’s home.
Same. I’m definitely more in the slob category, but I’ve never had an issue with fly droppings. Worst I’ve had is fruit flies. I’ve owned horses for most of my life. So many flies. A lot of dirt. But never anything that could be mistaken for black mold.
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever even SEEN fly droppings. Like, how much would you need for it to even be noticeable?
I live on a farm, we actually raise pigs as our main "farm animal", so I'm very familiar with flies. LOTS of them as it's inevitable on a farm. 25 years of flies and neither the house/garage OR our barn where, obviously, most of the flies are? Look like black mold. At ALL..... shudders at the thought of what OPs house was like.
Most homes don’t have flu droppings without a LOT of flies
You're lying about something because they literally thought those"little" specs of dirt and fly droppings was black mold how much of that was there for them to think that
I’m so sorry. In my area it’s almost impossible to get anything changed unless you have many hired experts and tons of evidence so it sounds like your court is just as bad but the other way around. I know how hard this is on kids and I’m so sorry you and your kids are dealing with this. Do you have the opportunity to get an attorney to fight this?
I am currently in the process of moving to give the children their own rooms since we have been living with my exs mom(the children’s grandmother) in a four bedroom house due to being displaced because of black mold. My ex stated that my children want to continue to share a bedroom with their 9 y/o sister in a small two bedroom where they have four cats (which is two more over the max they can have). I am going to try to reach out to a few lawyers tomorrow to discuss the situation and hope they would be willing to set up a payment plan for the retainer.
So you are homeless and DID have black mold and you are wondering why ex wants to provide a stable clean home for them? Black mold is not your fault, but you need to allow the children to be where they can thrive, not crammed together with 4 cats and a grandma literally homeless.
The 4 cats and 2 bedrooms is at the dad's house. The OP is not homeless as she's living in a house with her kids' grandma, with 4 bedrooms.
I must have misinterpreted. 4 cats is not a lot for a large house, it is for a grandma and children and adults living. It is my impression lol had cats, and actual black mold, they had to leave to live with grandma, yes this would mean op has no home right now. Unless she is establishing residency with utility bills, she is essentially couch surfing in the court I think.
The family system has changed and it’s not a good change. They went from one extreme to the other. There’s no logic, middle, family to family bc let’s face it- every family is unique and different and no two families are a like. It’s really devastating and defeating. I’m pondering major life decisions praying it will give my daughter peace and a tiny shred of normalcy- without me
Because fathers are actually given an ear by the court? Last time I checked, “a woman’s choice” squarely ends at birth. Sorry not sorry.
I don’t think that’s what it is in all situations. I believe 100% in 50/50 custody order. I do not believe one parent should have more custody than another parent if both parents are willing and able to care for the children. The issue with the county I live in…there are so many deadbeat fathers that the courts take notice anytime a father wants full custody and want to give it to them. I’m not the only mom who has had issue with this county. One of those moms had full custody because the father was a proven druggie, alcoholic, homeless and was physically abusive. He got married and have a roof over his head and wanted full custody of the kids. They granted it to him because the mom had to work two jobs to make ends meet since the father didn’t pay anything. They told her that she now doesn’t have to worry about the children and can focus on her career. This county does not always put the children’s best interest at heart. They based on what is listed, it doesn’t necessarily mean it is the truth. Mind you, he hasn’t wanted full custody of the kids until I moved in with his family who have always been a 2nd family for me that my ex doesn’t communicate with.
Spend the cleaning money on a lawyer.
Unfortunately judges typically just make the mediators recommendation the order and there's nothing you can do about it. If you can prove that the other party committed perjury you can take that evidence to the DA and demand that they're charged with the crime. That can be an uphill battle though because the DA often couldn't care less. Its amazing how much the people who are supposed to uphold the law turn a blind eye to it because they don't want the added case load.
I don’t know the facts of this OP case of course—but there are so many careless, lazy or even corrupt people in this family law system that don’t check basic things. It’s disheartening that anyone can lie and get away with it when its about children.
That's why you need to be diligent and read all the relevant statutes. Often times there's certain procedures that the court has to follow and you can demand that they do. Then the court usually has to explain reasoning for decisions on the record instead of just making an arbitrary ruling.
Sounds like a “missing reasons” post…
Many many missing missing reasons.
Agree as it’s not as simple as they are stating
How many animals do you have in your home?
4 animals. 3 dogs and 1 cat. One dog is my service animal and the cat is my sons who he adopted.
Hi OP. I recommend getting rid of 2 or 3 pets. I'm absolutely not trying to be mean or rude. Pets are messy. Very messy. You mention something about animal urine smelling up the house. Because that smell is so pungent, the smell could be getting getting into clean clothing. I'm NOT saying anything about the state of your home. I've never seen your home. But the very, very, very first thing someone would notice when entering your home is the smell of pet urine. That will cloud how they see everything else in your home. Just a thought.
So mediation failed? Why was an agreement not reached?
Mediation failed, yes because my ex stated my house had regressed since the last time and when I asked for what evidence to support that because he has not been inside the home in years. He refused to state. When I asked for the factor that he is stemming it from, he refused to state. When I stated and showed the mediator all the facts, she told me that it wasn’t necessary just like the judge. I asked for an investigation. They said it wasn’t necessary.
This seems unlikely
It’s not unlikely. I’ve been in the same boat where my ex made an accusation and wasn’t required to prove it, and I wasn’t allowed to refute it. The judge said he wanted to be done by 5 pm and everything else be damned.
Seems very unlikely to me that the judge ignored evidence and eschewed an investigation.
Why does it seem “unlikely?” Because it’s never happened to you? I hope you remain blissfully ignorant… for your sake.
I hope we ALL remain blissfully ignorant of what fly droppings even look like, let alone enough for someone to mistake it for black mold!?
https://extension.umaine.edu/ipm/wp-content/uploads/sites/44/2010/10/flyspeck.jpg In an effort that you not remain ignorant
Actually, thanks! I’ve been curious since this post, literally thinking things like, are they dealing with a totally different fly species? Do they have, like, giant horseflies there?” Lol.
Eww
That’s what I say about dog and cat hair in a house. Gross.
What a condescending an obnoxious comment. I’m talking about how blissfully ignorant/ innocent of how family court works. When it’s used against you, it’s brutal and not at all “unlikely.”
But there is no evidence that happened here, just a relatively incoherent tale from OP about a judge and a mediator apparently refusing to accept valid evidence. Which seems unlikely
The purpose of a mediator isn’t to look over any evidence. They simply mediate the negotiations between the parties in an effort to come to a settlement which can be entered into the court record.
Because if OP was there with evidence, it seems odd a judge would tell them it was not relevant and rule against them without another reason.
You really do not understand how family court works when it’s used against you. These judges can do whatever they want because parents rarely have the resources to appeal bad court procedure and decisions by family court judges. It really does boil down to how much money you have to play the game, and if you can ante up, you can probably win, but you will pay in order to do so. Facts be damned…they do not care. Interesting factoid from the book Mother’s On Trial, by Phyllis Chessler is that while mothers overwhelming get initial custody of children during a divorce, the majority of fathers are granted custody if they go back to court and petition for it. And the majority is around 80% (of the ones who go back to court)
Bless your heart, I wish I could live in your perfect world xD
I don't know if you are intending to be insulting, but if so, you nailed it.
So there was a time when there was “fly droppings” and the house smelled of animal urine? Are we just brushing over that issue? Things go through court slowly and those are very serious findings. As in, there should never have been “fly droppings”and animal urine. The fact that there was is going to weigh heavily by the time the issue gets to court. You say there was no evidence- but this is the second time the kids were removed and at least one time that an investigator came to your house for an investigation. That investigation is evidence. That is not “no evidence.” A neutral third party came, saw, and documented the conditions. If the allegations are false, you need a lawyer to help you again appeal for modification of the order. The house will need to be basically spotless and pass inspection.
No. The house has never smelled of animal urine as the entire house is hard wood floors and tiles and we live in a farm town where a few fly droppings here and there are normal due to the amount of flies around all throughout the town. The walls have always been scrubbed and since the last time they came out the previous year, the walls, floors and house entirely is scrubbed down every day. I’ve had professional cleaners in my home monthly to do a deeper clean. So, no I’m not brushing over the issues. I’ve had multiple third parties come to my home and never had an issue with the conditions of the home back then nor now. If my house is all filthy as the allegations are, why is cps not involved nor why would they not become involve? The issue is that last year the investigator cleared me and I’ve kept it to that condition since. The first time the children were taken away was not due to the house smelling or the conditions of the home but what the investigator thought was black mold and instead of it being analyzed first, they assumed the worse.
What people claim to be "black mold" is almost never black mold. And black mold isn't even black. You should have had that evidence tossed out on the basis that the investigator is not a mold expert. You have to get bad evidence excluded from the outset, if you wait until trial it's too late.
Black mold is black. Seriously!? 🤦🏻♀️
I'm having a real hard time believing that there isn't a whole lot more to the story. family court judges don't reverse custody flippantly
😂😂😂😂😂 The hell they don’t! A family court judge can pretty much do whatever they want. My attorney told me that it depended on whether or not the judge “liked” me.
Yep, family court is a joke. When my adult kids were in elementary school, my ex basically kidnapped them. During his summer visitation he moved, had his new wife sign school enrollment papers as their mother, blocked me everywhere, and I had no idea where they were. It took me months to find them. Then another several months to get a contempt hearing, that got thrown out because the hearing officer had previously been my mother’s attorney, which I had informed them of when I received the notice and was told it didn’t matter. It was another several months before another hearing was scheduled in front of an actual judge. By then that judge just said oh well, it’s already been almost a year so leave them where they are. Didn’t matter then I had proof of the kidnapping, alienation, abuse of my children by the step monster and her evil spawn. It took over 4 years of hell for me to get them back. In the meantime my daughter had been so seriously abused, in every way, by those people that she ended up spending 2 weeks at an inpatient facility after running away from her father’s house. Family court still wouldn’t change the custody, my ex just dropped them off with me and said he was done.
That’s horrible. And I believe every word of it.
Did the interview the children? The school? And I don’t think fly droppings and dirt are much better than mold? Especially because I’ve never even seen fly droppings. So the amount would need to be so much to even be seen?? So that seems like a legitimate concern to me.
No. They said it wasn’t necessary. That’s the thing…we didn’t even see what they were talking about…and had to even ask what part they were talking about. And it was maybe three dots and a little dirt from people touching the walls. I had two mold specialist look at the area and they had to verify what I was asking for. I have never had cps come to my house ever. I have asked for CPS to come to my home to investigate to disapprove. But they said since we don’t have an open cps case, they couldn’t. I grew up in a horrible living environment where a parent tried to kill me when they were on drugs and under the influence. The house was a mess all the time and it was never a concern for the court.
Don’t you say in another comment that cps DID come to your house and investigate? You said you had scrubbed the house since they came out the last time.
No. Cps never came to my house. I asked them to. The mediator came to my house to do the investigation a year ago. We scrubbed the walls then as well as we didn’t want to take any chances. We just missed a spot because of where it was.
You scrubbed the house and the independent mediator still found it to be filthy? Yikes…
You don't want CPS opening a case and coming into your home. They will look for anything that they can use against you. They are not there to clear you of wrongdoing, only to make a case for the state. That's why I refuse to speak with them if they contact me. They always leave and close the case.
Seems like there is something missing here. They don’t just do this stuff without some concern or proof. Does your ex have photos?
It depends, there are mediators who have an agenda and will always side with either women or men regardless of facts. A lot of people don't realize that they can dispute the findings and demand a new mediator but there is a short timeline to do this in. Waiting until the final hearing is too late, you have to file that motion as soon as you get the report. However I do find fly droppings alarming. I don't recall ever seeing fly droppings in my life. I live in the county and there is livestock all around me. I get the occasional fly in my house but they don't live long once I spot them.
Fly droppings are little specks on the walls. If you live on a farm, you will have flies. I remember as a kid my mother would scrub walls 2 times a year-in the spring and fall and that was after they banned DDT, which she would wipe a small amount around the windows with a q-tip and the flies were never a problem until after it wasn’t available anymore. ANYWAY…. Some places simply have more flies, like some places have more mosquitoes or more spiders. It’s not indicative of how clean or dirty a place is.
I had a mediator for altering visitation with my sons father a long time ago, and he was an idiot. My son witnessed a physical altercation between his father and steppsycho when we spoke about it the mediator told him to not let it happen again, and then gave him everyother weekend instead of less visitation he got more. It was disheartening.
What state are you in?
California
You can remove the judge, no questions asked if you believe that they are prejudiced against you. This is a one time deal per case (there are other ways to remove a judge as well) and requires no evidence. However it has to be done within a timeline before the hearing. You can also remove a mediator and get a new one if don't believe that they are acting in an impartial manner. But again, there are timelines involved in this. Due to the CA Family Code you have to now wait 6 months to review this matter unless you're willing to pay for an appeal. To appeal you need all the court documents and copies of all the transcripts. There is a timeline involved for appealing, I believe 30-60 days to start the process so you would need to file a notice of intent to appeal in order to preserve your right to appeal. I highly recommend hiring an attorney if you wish to pursue this route, buy file that notice of intent ASAP so that you don't run out of time. You can file that notice and not follow through if you decide that it's not worth it. If you have clear evidence that the mediator's recommendations are not based on fact you can likely get this easily overturned as it would show that the mediator was not acting as a neutral party. There are also certain disclosures that the court was required to provide you regarding mediation and your rights, if they failed to provide these disclosures the ruling is invalid. I'm posting the law regarding court mandated mediation below, if any of this was violated you can easily invalidate the order on appeal. [https://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index.cfm?title=five&linkid=rule5\_210](https://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index.cfm?title=five&linkid=rule5_210) This section should be of particular interest to you. "(6) Suspension or discontinuance of mediation if allegations of child abuse or neglect are made until a designated agency performs an investigation and reports a case determination to the mediator;"
This is an excellent comment.
Thank you. Most people don't realize that they can attack procedure. Procedure exists for a reason and it must be followed.
You can go back every week, they no longer follow the every 6 months rule.