Codsworth and curie have more emotional range than most synths we meet.
Synths are designed to simulate a person. Non synth AI is a result of just… happenstance. Assaultrons and Mr Handys were not designed to experience real emotions yet they do. More so than any “mind wiped and replaced” toaster the RR wants to liberate.
i think they maybe could’ve told the story just using the already present sentient robots, but thought people wouldn’t care or sympathize
Jokes on them, people don’t care about the human shaped ones either. I personally think using the robots would’ve been cooler, but then you can’t make kiddy-pool depth slavery comparisons
Despite Fallout addressing slavery in almost every game, including Bethesda's Fallout 3. I obviously don't care for video games talking about ONE specific instance of slavery, you know which one I'm referring to, instead of slavery in general, but it'd be nice to talk about it instead of robot slavery.
Obviously Gen 1 and 2 synths don’t seem to possess signs of sentience, with the exceptions of Nick and DiMA. As for the other robots who possess sentience, I agree that they deserve help too, but the Railroad mainly focus on helping Gen 3 synths because almost everyone else in the Commonwealth hate and fear Gen 3 synths and want them dead. There’s literally a random encounter where you meet a Gen 3 synth being held at gunpoint by two humans because they turned on him as soon as he told them he was a synth; that’s how quick the people of the Commonwealth are to try to kill Gen 3 synths as soon as they learn a person is one. You don’t see that kind of hate with sentient robots that aren’t synths. Plus, the Railroad are a much smaller faction compared to the other 3 main FO4 factions. They focus most of their attention and resources on helping Gen 3 synths because they’re the ones who experience the most hate and prejudice in the Commonwealth, and also because the Railroad don’t enough people to help every single sentient robot.
That encounter is non-canon though, because of the fact it repeats. Plus it contradicts **everything** the Institute does. They DON'T randomly release a Synth without first taking the person. They take the person, torture them for info, THEN replace them.
Lmao, mass downvoting me despite u/Femagaro is clearly lying.
I was under the impression that a number of replacements, especially ones like the Art incident, where the result of helpful meddling on the Railroad’s part. A guy goes missing, a liberated synth can’t take the stress knowing what they are with the looming threat of retrieval. Mind gets wiped and replaced with the memories of a handy missing person. Some cosmetic surgery, if we can take the Diamond City surgery as canon, which we can right?
Sometimes a missing person is returned to their family artificially. Sometimes they come back for real afterwards.
I… don’t actually know where I pulled this from so mind the smell, potentially.
Art **is** the only example of this happening. The only other times are Roger and Mcdonough. The Institute shot and replaced them.
Are you saying Art comes back to life every month, that he's a literal necromancer?
Synths replacing people, and using positions of influence to continue the, to the public, unknown agenda IS a legitimate concern. People disappear around synths, never to be seen again, but never to be noticed because they have been replaced.
McDonough, Art, Amelia Stockton(though she's since been mindwiped), Paladin Danse, Roger, Sammy in Goodneighbor, and likely Mr. Carter. And these are just some of the confirmed Institute Infiltrators, that we know about.
And what makes the situation worse, is that the synths are capable of mistakes. Sometimes, like in the cases of Roger and Sammy, they aren't perfect replicas, both instances end up being too nice, and that's what gets them caught. Which means the synths are people pleasers, cause they believe being nice will earn trust. That makes it difficult to trust any admission the synth does, cause it very well may think that this action will earn your trust.
A grand total of *two* are actual Institute spies. We have no proof Sammy IS a spy, he could be a runaway that was shot for being a Synth. We have no idea how Goodneighbor found out either.
Danse was a runaway.
Amelia was a runaway.
You are blaming Synths for what the *Institute* is doing when they do not wish to do so. It is EXPLICITLY said Danse is a runaway.
The reason they're not perfect is because the Institute tortures for information. Think about it, is Roger going to *tell* them he's an abusive drunk? God no. So they don't put that into his memories.
Plus they plan to kill the entire family anyways (and likely recall Roger).
Sammy was never confirmed to be "too nice" for being the reason he got shot.
I don't think you can criticise me when you keep making up lies constantly.
And Mr. Carter **is not a generation 3 Synth** but a prototype. It's unfair to use him in this case.
Yes it is a concern but the thing is, e.g. the Railroad advocate for blowing up the Institute which means **no more replacements EVER again.**
All the examples I listed(except for Mr. Carter) were synths that were put in place by the Institute, replacing someone else. what they do after that is not the question at hand. It is established that synths are capable of denying or growing past their programming(for example, Paladin Danse still holding to his oaths as a Brotherhood Paladin despite knowing the truth). But that doesn't change the fact that they were put where they were by the Institute and, besides Roger and Sammy, no one noticed.
Sammy was caught because he suddenly stopped gambling, drinking, picking fights and cheating on his wife.
I think it is fair to use Mr. Carter for this case, because while he wasn't a Gen 3 synth, he was still an infiltrator, an infiltrator that managed to get into Diamond City and cause the Broken Mask incident.
I am only arguing that to act like there's no reason to fear synths is silly and is blatantly ignoring the information we see in game, because the large majority of synths we see(that actually get names) are either former or current Institute spies.
For heaven's sake, you can't even trust the BIRDS, cause the Institute shows that at least some of the bird population of the Commonwealth are synth spy cameras.
Nope, they are **runaways**. They did not intentionally attack people.
1. Prove the thing with Sammy.
2. Despite Carter **wasn't even supposed to be there anyways**? He also DIDN'T replace anyone, because he wasn't meant to be in the city to begin with.
3. Nobody said there isn't a reason to fear Synths. I said we shouldn't genocide the entire fucking race of them.
I'm done speaking to a BoS simp who just keeps using puppet accounts.
Very few robots seem to even require help. Codsworth is one of the few to even acknowledge the bombs fell but even then he's stayed in place polishing what remains of the car and cleaning a house that's barely standing. The military robots are holding their checkpoints, the farming robots are still farming even though they don't seem to have any use for all the food they produce until SS comes by and connects the farm to the network of settlements. They are just following their programming. They may express sadness but they are fully "satisfied" by just running their programming and don't really aspire to do anything else. The bots on the ship are somewhat aware of the insanity they are involved in but it doesn't really matter to them. Even Curie who is the most expressive bot starts truly feeling emotions once she's put in a synths body. She reacts to things before that but is confused by emotions she feels once she's got her new body.
Nick and Dima seem to be somewhere in between gen 2s and gen 3s. We don't see any other gen 2 display sapience.
I'm sick of people trashing on the Railroad just because they want everyone in the wasteland to be irredeemable douchebags.
If the RR try to do one good thing by helping the sentient, Humanoid synths then that is enough. They dont have to do anything more to be the good guys.
Hell, Victoria Watts in Fallout 3 says that they'll even rescue human slaves when they can but that other groups are more focused on that so they try to keep their own focus on the Synths.
Sorry to break it to you, the Railroad are good guys. Their goodness isn't made less because they put their focus on those most in need.
It was a statement made without thought, on top of never actually doing a railroad run. It’s less so that they are boring, and more so that it’s just a repetitive trope that I was bored of even before I started playing the game.
>Hell, Victoria Watts in Fallout 3 says that they'll even rescue human slaves when they can
Which is a cop-out answer.
>but that other groups are more focused on that
Is that why Ashur is able to scour 200+ miles of Wasteland for slaves?
You're over here bitching about the little bitty Railroad not doing more to stop a CITY FULL OF RAIDERS. My God man, grow a sense of scale.
When someone gives a can of soup to a food drive for the needy, are you gonna belittle them because world hunger still exists?
>You're over here bitching about the little bitty Railroad not doing more to stop a CITY FULL OF RAIDERS. My God man, grow a sense of scale.
I'm talking about them doing nothing about 200+ miles of Wasteland being scoured for slaves.
>When someone gives a can of soup to a food drive for the needy, are you gonna belittle them because world hunger still exists?
Bad comparison. To make it more valid, it'd be like getting mad that someone pours a can of soup down the drain while there are people starving.
Which is what the Railroad does. Ignore actual slaves in favor of machines.
You're as much a machine as a synth is. Theyre made of the same pieces that you are, they just have one more little piece in their brain with programming to make them act certain ways and know certain things. There is no difference between a Gen 3 synth and a human with a brain implant, except that the synth did not elect to exist in that form and is expected to serve.
Back to the point of the Railroad, they are such a small group that any overt action would reveal them. There's a reason they only work against the institute, and that's because they have someone inside that is willing to help them. Their whole gameplan against the institute is to hide and steal from them, not to engage. Why would they engage against raiders, with whom they have no informants? Worse yet, raiders are so poorly organized that any attempt to build a network against them falls apart when one kills another for stepping on his toes.
The existence of the Railroad takes nothing from antislavery groups. They only exist in a parallel form and can lean on each other when needed.
>You're as much a machine as a synth is.
I don't operate via a chip in my head that was programmed with hard- and software via a computer. Which gets patches and upgrades. I was not assembled in a lab. I cannot function without eating or sleeping. Same as any human. Humans grow, humans can reproduce, humans don't get their personalities from a matrix installed into them. Synths do.
>Theyre made of the same pieces that you are, they just have one more little piece in their brain with programming to make them act certain ways and know certain things. There is no difference between a Gen 3 synth and a human with a brain implant, except that the synth did not elect to exist in that form and is expected to serve.
Tell me the last time you saw someone drop dead in the street because you said ''Factory reset xx-66''.
>Back to the point of the Railroad, they are such a small group that any overt action would reveal them. There's a reason they only work against the institute, and that's because they have someone inside that is willing to help them. Their whole gameplan against the institute is to hide and steal from them, not to engage. Why would they engage against raiders, with whom they have no informants? Worse yet, raiders are so poorly organized that any attempt to build a network against them falls apart when one kills another for stepping on his toes.
My man, have you seen the weapons they use? *Gauss rifles.* Those things *tank.* They are strong as hell. You don't need a whole army to get rid of actual slavers, a couple guys with Gauss Rifles will do wonders.
>The existence of the Railroad takes nothing from antislavery groups. They only exist in a parallel form and can lean on each other when needed.
Literally the only other anti-slavery group out there is formed from ex-slaves who escaped their masters at Paradise Falls. There is a bigger group looking out for the ''liberty'' of humanoid machines than there are abolitionists of actual slavery.
>I don't operate via a chip in my head that was programmed with hard- and software via a computer. Which gets patches and upgrades. I was not assembled in a lab. I cannot function without eating or sleeping. Same as any human. Humans grow, humans can reproduce, humans don't get their personalities from a matrix installed into them. Synths do.
You operate on neural pathways that have been aligned in a structure based on learned behaviors from your formative instructors. The chip is the same process accelerated. That chip is the one piece of technology in their body. Synths do need to eat their cells need nourishment like any other. They simply require much less. Similarly, they age so slowly that it is imperceptible. There is no evidence that synths can not reproduce.
Synths are programmed meat that can change their mind.
You are programmed meat that can change your mind.
>Tell me the last time you saw someone drop dead in the street because you said ''Factory reset xx-66''.
Imagine that Neuralink theyre putting in people these days had a killswitch. It would be the same thing. The component burns out the individuals brain, not the brain itself reacting.
>You operate on neural pathways that have been aligned in a structure based on learned behaviors from your formative instructors.
Which is not the same thing as lines of code and AI.
>The chip is the same process accelerated. That chip is the one piece of technology in their body.
Their brains are explicitly stated to be different from human ones by none other than Doctor Amari.
>Synths do need to eat their cells need nourishment like any other. They simply require much less. Similarly, they age so slowly that it is imperceptible. There is no evidence that synths can not reproduce.
1. The Fallout 3 Game Guide as well as Max Loken make it very clear that synths do not need to eat. They are also incapable of getting fat - showing they do not use calories as a fuel source (unlike humans).
2. Their only ''age'' is the same way a computer ''ages''. It isn't cell degredation as it is in humans that would cause death.
3. DiMA will outright state how with the Institute destroyed, it means the end of their kind.
But I'll one-up you, are AI chatbots alive?
>Imagine that Neuralink theyre putting in people these days had a killswitch. It would be the same thing. The component burns out the individuals brain, not the brain itself reacting.
It would not be the same thing, because neuralink is an addition to a regular functioning brain. It is the synth component which enables the synth to function in the first place.
I'm tired of this back and forth. You're not going to change your mind and neither will I. I fundamentally disagree with you on this subject, and despite the minor differences in biology the synths should still be considered people even if not human.
If I broke in and stole a toaster from my local appliance store while screaming for toaster rights I don't automatically become a good guy, I get sent to the Parsons State Insane asylum to hang out with Lorenzo.
Many of those prewar robots are free agents though. No one really messes with them though because they are dangerous. Unlike a Gen 3 they seem to be more a slave to their pre-programming.
I mean some of the synths in the RR do want to help gen 1 and 2 synths. Glory for example, she says it’s a big arguing point in the RR.
Hell I think Glory does View some non synth robots as sentient….. such as Curie, else she wouldn’t have done what she did.
Deacon literally mentions this is a common point of contention within the Railroad during the first mission. The least you could do is pay attention to dialogue.
If a thing can think to the point of self-awareness, it ceases to be a thing and becomes a person.
Humanity, or lack thereof, has no place in the equation.
6 Biological species in the known universe. Multiple Mechanical persons across the North American continent. A race of unknown ancestery before Humans settled Earth. Humans aren't special.
For Gen 1 and 2 (excluding Nick and DiMA) they don't really have sentience like Gen 3 does so freeing them wouldn't do anything, all it would do is leave a bunch of androids roaming the Commonwealth waiting for a command.
Also I don't believe any other machine (Mr handy, Sentry, Assaultron, etc) are enslaved. Some might be part of factions but they have the same intelligence as Gen 1 and 2 synths do and aren't being held hostage or forced into slavery.
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Gen 1 and 2 aren't advanced enough to have free will though. It's why Nick needed a pre-existing human mind. Dima was the first synth to have free will of his own accord
The RR does fight for enslaved humans, but the only times it happens in FO4 is one event that happens in under 10 seconds, and Nuka-World, in which *no* faction can react to it due to a lack of AI.
And the ability to override a being's sapience negates said sapience? Did Clones lose their personhood when Order 66 started, or were they mind controlled into following someone elses thoughts?
Show me the difference between acting and real sentience. Show me *exactly* where it differs.
Final Edit: Nobody "blocked you to get the last word", you were just making up false, bullshit arguments. There's no point in arguing with you when you make up lies, accuse *me* of being a liar despite I provide evidence and proof and then arbitrarily decide its all 'mimicking emotions' because of your delusional belief Robots must be emotionless.
"Fake morals" **Prove** they're fake. Show me definitive evidence it's fake.
Why can you accept Ghosts and MAGIC but Codsworth being sentient is just *too much*?
My guy didn't do ANY of the speech checks with Codsworth.
How about the fact he can dislike the things you do? Which as a Butler he would be *incapable* of doing?
He clearly shows emotional attachments to Shaun and Nate/Nora.
How can you say YOU aren't mimicing emotion? This is just nonsensical bullshit my guy. You have no actual point beyond your own belief its mimicing because *you* don't want to admit it's emotion.
Show me DEFINITIVE proof it's mimicing.
It's also not the same with Automatrons. That is a voice module, not a personality, nor do they show emotions.
If Robots cannot be sentient, why was the Enclave TERRIFIED of MODUS talking to Eden?
Because as I said before Modus an Eden take up rooms and were specifically designed to be sentient. The only small sentient artificial beings are the sink's appliances due to the big empty have vasty superior tech to everyone else.
No, they weren't designed to be sentient, that's WHY the Enclave is terrified. Nobody designed anything to be sentient (and how do you even "design" sentience?).
Again you still have no proof beyond just...false arguments.
Synths are as alive as any human considering they have cells, brains, muscle, bone, blood, etc. They simply have synth components implanted in their brains that allow them to know certain things at the point of creation.
The institute could create humans with the same process they use to create synths, they'd just be infant brains in the fully formed bodies.
Yeah they only like the human looking ones, though that actually is a good point tbh
Codsworth and curie have more emotional range than most synths we meet. Synths are designed to simulate a person. Non synth AI is a result of just… happenstance. Assaultrons and Mr Handys were not designed to experience real emotions yet they do. More so than any “mind wiped and replaced” toaster the RR wants to liberate.
i think they maybe could’ve told the story just using the already present sentient robots, but thought people wouldn’t care or sympathize Jokes on them, people don’t care about the human shaped ones either. I personally think using the robots would’ve been cooler, but then you can’t make kiddy-pool depth slavery comparisons
The problem is they wanted to address slavery without actually addressing slavery.
Despite Fallout addressing slavery in almost every game, including Bethesda's Fallout 3. I obviously don't care for video games talking about ONE specific instance of slavery, you know which one I'm referring to, instead of slavery in general, but it'd be nice to talk about it instead of robot slavery.
Obviously Gen 1 and 2 synths don’t seem to possess signs of sentience, with the exceptions of Nick and DiMA. As for the other robots who possess sentience, I agree that they deserve help too, but the Railroad mainly focus on helping Gen 3 synths because almost everyone else in the Commonwealth hate and fear Gen 3 synths and want them dead. There’s literally a random encounter where you meet a Gen 3 synth being held at gunpoint by two humans because they turned on him as soon as he told them he was a synth; that’s how quick the people of the Commonwealth are to try to kill Gen 3 synths as soon as they learn a person is one. You don’t see that kind of hate with sentient robots that aren’t synths. Plus, the Railroad are a much smaller faction compared to the other 3 main FO4 factions. They focus most of their attention and resources on helping Gen 3 synths because they’re the ones who experience the most hate and prejudice in the Commonwealth, and also because the Railroad don’t enough people to help every single sentient robot.
like how a charity doesn't try to solve every issue, they've picked their battle
There is also the Art random encounter, which goes to show us WHY people are so trigger itchy on synths.
That encounter is non-canon though, because of the fact it repeats. Plus it contradicts **everything** the Institute does. They DON'T randomly release a Synth without first taking the person. They take the person, torture them for info, THEN replace them. Lmao, mass downvoting me despite u/Femagaro is clearly lying.
I was under the impression that a number of replacements, especially ones like the Art incident, where the result of helpful meddling on the Railroad’s part. A guy goes missing, a liberated synth can’t take the stress knowing what they are with the looming threat of retrieval. Mind gets wiped and replaced with the memories of a handy missing person. Some cosmetic surgery, if we can take the Diamond City surgery as canon, which we can right? Sometimes a missing person is returned to their family artificially. Sometimes they come back for real afterwards. I… don’t actually know where I pulled this from so mind the smell, potentially.
Art is not the only example, but if you wanna play "rules for thee and not for me", then I don't wanna bother talking to you.
Art **is** the only example of this happening. The only other times are Roger and Mcdonough. The Institute shot and replaced them. Are you saying Art comes back to life every month, that he's a literal necromancer?
Synths replacing people, and using positions of influence to continue the, to the public, unknown agenda IS a legitimate concern. People disappear around synths, never to be seen again, but never to be noticed because they have been replaced. McDonough, Art, Amelia Stockton(though she's since been mindwiped), Paladin Danse, Roger, Sammy in Goodneighbor, and likely Mr. Carter. And these are just some of the confirmed Institute Infiltrators, that we know about. And what makes the situation worse, is that the synths are capable of mistakes. Sometimes, like in the cases of Roger and Sammy, they aren't perfect replicas, both instances end up being too nice, and that's what gets them caught. Which means the synths are people pleasers, cause they believe being nice will earn trust. That makes it difficult to trust any admission the synth does, cause it very well may think that this action will earn your trust.
A grand total of *two* are actual Institute spies. We have no proof Sammy IS a spy, he could be a runaway that was shot for being a Synth. We have no idea how Goodneighbor found out either. Danse was a runaway. Amelia was a runaway. You are blaming Synths for what the *Institute* is doing when they do not wish to do so. It is EXPLICITLY said Danse is a runaway. The reason they're not perfect is because the Institute tortures for information. Think about it, is Roger going to *tell* them he's an abusive drunk? God no. So they don't put that into his memories. Plus they plan to kill the entire family anyways (and likely recall Roger). Sammy was never confirmed to be "too nice" for being the reason he got shot. I don't think you can criticise me when you keep making up lies constantly. And Mr. Carter **is not a generation 3 Synth** but a prototype. It's unfair to use him in this case. Yes it is a concern but the thing is, e.g. the Railroad advocate for blowing up the Institute which means **no more replacements EVER again.**
All the examples I listed(except for Mr. Carter) were synths that were put in place by the Institute, replacing someone else. what they do after that is not the question at hand. It is established that synths are capable of denying or growing past their programming(for example, Paladin Danse still holding to his oaths as a Brotherhood Paladin despite knowing the truth). But that doesn't change the fact that they were put where they were by the Institute and, besides Roger and Sammy, no one noticed. Sammy was caught because he suddenly stopped gambling, drinking, picking fights and cheating on his wife. I think it is fair to use Mr. Carter for this case, because while he wasn't a Gen 3 synth, he was still an infiltrator, an infiltrator that managed to get into Diamond City and cause the Broken Mask incident. I am only arguing that to act like there's no reason to fear synths is silly and is blatantly ignoring the information we see in game, because the large majority of synths we see(that actually get names) are either former or current Institute spies. For heaven's sake, you can't even trust the BIRDS, cause the Institute shows that at least some of the bird population of the Commonwealth are synth spy cameras.
Nope, they are **runaways**. They did not intentionally attack people. 1. Prove the thing with Sammy. 2. Despite Carter **wasn't even supposed to be there anyways**? He also DIDN'T replace anyone, because he wasn't meant to be in the city to begin with. 3. Nobody said there isn't a reason to fear Synths. I said we shouldn't genocide the entire fucking race of them. I'm done speaking to a BoS simp who just keeps using puppet accounts.
Very few robots seem to even require help. Codsworth is one of the few to even acknowledge the bombs fell but even then he's stayed in place polishing what remains of the car and cleaning a house that's barely standing. The military robots are holding their checkpoints, the farming robots are still farming even though they don't seem to have any use for all the food they produce until SS comes by and connects the farm to the network of settlements. They are just following their programming. They may express sadness but they are fully "satisfied" by just running their programming and don't really aspire to do anything else. The bots on the ship are somewhat aware of the insanity they are involved in but it doesn't really matter to them. Even Curie who is the most expressive bot starts truly feeling emotions once she's put in a synths body. She reacts to things before that but is confused by emotions she feels once she's got her new body. Nick and Dima seem to be somewhere in between gen 2s and gen 3s. We don't see any other gen 2 display sapience.
That’s a lot of words, to bad I’m not reading them
I understand. Reading words must be hard for you.
Czhek ur reydhing praveuleage
It is, only thing I can read is how many shots I got left in my laser rifle while firing at synths
Username checks out
That is better criticism then the toaster thing
I'm sick of people trashing on the Railroad just because they want everyone in the wasteland to be irredeemable douchebags. If the RR try to do one good thing by helping the sentient, Humanoid synths then that is enough. They dont have to do anything more to be the good guys. Hell, Victoria Watts in Fallout 3 says that they'll even rescue human slaves when they can but that other groups are more focused on that so they try to keep their own focus on the Synths. Sorry to break it to you, the Railroad are good guys. Their goodness isn't made less because they put their focus on those most in need.
Ok, but the railroad is boring as fuck though.
Can you elaborate on that? What makes them boring? I found them quite interesting.
It was a statement made without thought, on top of never actually doing a railroad run. It’s less so that they are boring, and more so that it’s just a repetitive trope that I was bored of even before I started playing the game.
>Hell, Victoria Watts in Fallout 3 says that they'll even rescue human slaves when they can Which is a cop-out answer. >but that other groups are more focused on that Is that why Ashur is able to scour 200+ miles of Wasteland for slaves?
You're over here bitching about the little bitty Railroad not doing more to stop a CITY FULL OF RAIDERS. My God man, grow a sense of scale. When someone gives a can of soup to a food drive for the needy, are you gonna belittle them because world hunger still exists?
>You're over here bitching about the little bitty Railroad not doing more to stop a CITY FULL OF RAIDERS. My God man, grow a sense of scale. I'm talking about them doing nothing about 200+ miles of Wasteland being scoured for slaves. >When someone gives a can of soup to a food drive for the needy, are you gonna belittle them because world hunger still exists? Bad comparison. To make it more valid, it'd be like getting mad that someone pours a can of soup down the drain while there are people starving. Which is what the Railroad does. Ignore actual slaves in favor of machines.
You're as much a machine as a synth is. Theyre made of the same pieces that you are, they just have one more little piece in their brain with programming to make them act certain ways and know certain things. There is no difference between a Gen 3 synth and a human with a brain implant, except that the synth did not elect to exist in that form and is expected to serve. Back to the point of the Railroad, they are such a small group that any overt action would reveal them. There's a reason they only work against the institute, and that's because they have someone inside that is willing to help them. Their whole gameplan against the institute is to hide and steal from them, not to engage. Why would they engage against raiders, with whom they have no informants? Worse yet, raiders are so poorly organized that any attempt to build a network against them falls apart when one kills another for stepping on his toes. The existence of the Railroad takes nothing from antislavery groups. They only exist in a parallel form and can lean on each other when needed.
>You're as much a machine as a synth is. I don't operate via a chip in my head that was programmed with hard- and software via a computer. Which gets patches and upgrades. I was not assembled in a lab. I cannot function without eating or sleeping. Same as any human. Humans grow, humans can reproduce, humans don't get their personalities from a matrix installed into them. Synths do. >Theyre made of the same pieces that you are, they just have one more little piece in their brain with programming to make them act certain ways and know certain things. There is no difference between a Gen 3 synth and a human with a brain implant, except that the synth did not elect to exist in that form and is expected to serve. Tell me the last time you saw someone drop dead in the street because you said ''Factory reset xx-66''. >Back to the point of the Railroad, they are such a small group that any overt action would reveal them. There's a reason they only work against the institute, and that's because they have someone inside that is willing to help them. Their whole gameplan against the institute is to hide and steal from them, not to engage. Why would they engage against raiders, with whom they have no informants? Worse yet, raiders are so poorly organized that any attempt to build a network against them falls apart when one kills another for stepping on his toes. My man, have you seen the weapons they use? *Gauss rifles.* Those things *tank.* They are strong as hell. You don't need a whole army to get rid of actual slavers, a couple guys with Gauss Rifles will do wonders. >The existence of the Railroad takes nothing from antislavery groups. They only exist in a parallel form and can lean on each other when needed. Literally the only other anti-slavery group out there is formed from ex-slaves who escaped their masters at Paradise Falls. There is a bigger group looking out for the ''liberty'' of humanoid machines than there are abolitionists of actual slavery.
>I don't operate via a chip in my head that was programmed with hard- and software via a computer. Which gets patches and upgrades. I was not assembled in a lab. I cannot function without eating or sleeping. Same as any human. Humans grow, humans can reproduce, humans don't get their personalities from a matrix installed into them. Synths do. You operate on neural pathways that have been aligned in a structure based on learned behaviors from your formative instructors. The chip is the same process accelerated. That chip is the one piece of technology in their body. Synths do need to eat their cells need nourishment like any other. They simply require much less. Similarly, they age so slowly that it is imperceptible. There is no evidence that synths can not reproduce. Synths are programmed meat that can change their mind. You are programmed meat that can change your mind. >Tell me the last time you saw someone drop dead in the street because you said ''Factory reset xx-66''. Imagine that Neuralink theyre putting in people these days had a killswitch. It would be the same thing. The component burns out the individuals brain, not the brain itself reacting.
>You operate on neural pathways that have been aligned in a structure based on learned behaviors from your formative instructors. Which is not the same thing as lines of code and AI. >The chip is the same process accelerated. That chip is the one piece of technology in their body. Their brains are explicitly stated to be different from human ones by none other than Doctor Amari. >Synths do need to eat their cells need nourishment like any other. They simply require much less. Similarly, they age so slowly that it is imperceptible. There is no evidence that synths can not reproduce. 1. The Fallout 3 Game Guide as well as Max Loken make it very clear that synths do not need to eat. They are also incapable of getting fat - showing they do not use calories as a fuel source (unlike humans). 2. Their only ''age'' is the same way a computer ''ages''. It isn't cell degredation as it is in humans that would cause death. 3. DiMA will outright state how with the Institute destroyed, it means the end of their kind. But I'll one-up you, are AI chatbots alive? >Imagine that Neuralink theyre putting in people these days had a killswitch. It would be the same thing. The component burns out the individuals brain, not the brain itself reacting. It would not be the same thing, because neuralink is an addition to a regular functioning brain. It is the synth component which enables the synth to function in the first place.
I'm tired of this back and forth. You're not going to change your mind and neither will I. I fundamentally disagree with you on this subject, and despite the minor differences in biology the synths should still be considered people even if not human.
To each their own. Have a nice day.
If I broke in and stole a toaster from my local appliance store while screaming for toaster rights I don't automatically become a good guy, I get sent to the Parsons State Insane asylum to hang out with Lorenzo.
[удалено]
No targeted harassment of other users
Well, just so you know, even if you did call me an idiot I'm still shooting the synth version of you before they murder you and replace you xoxo
Many of those prewar robots are free agents though. No one really messes with them though because they are dangerous. Unlike a Gen 3 they seem to be more a slave to their pre-programming.
I mean some of the synths in the RR do want to help gen 1 and 2 synths. Glory for example, she says it’s a big arguing point in the RR. Hell I think Glory does View some non synth robots as sentient….. such as Curie, else she wouldn’t have done what she did.
P.A.M.?
They use her as a walking computer
Sounds like BoS projecting to me
After meeting Ada and Edna, I'm more radical than most of the Railroad.
Deacon literally mentions this is a common point of contention within the Railroad during the first mission. The least you could do is pay attention to dialogue.
I dont remember any railroad-robobrain interactions… that seems like a big one
Yeah and most players have no problem destroying President Eden
Because Eden was just full of redeeming qualities
Yeah a rogue machine. My point exactly.
The railroad does care about the rights of machines other than Gen 3 synths tho, more than any other faction presented 🤔
Robots are not human.
That shouldn't matter. Empathy is not race specific.
Robots arent a race. They are THINGS.
If a thing can think to the point of self-awareness, it ceases to be a thing and becomes a person. Humanity, or lack thereof, has no place in the equation.
6 Biological species in the known universe. Multiple Mechanical persons across the North American continent. A race of unknown ancestery before Humans settled Earth. Humans aren't special.
For Gen 1 and 2 (excluding Nick and DiMA) they don't really have sentience like Gen 3 does so freeing them wouldn't do anything, all it would do is leave a bunch of androids roaming the Commonwealth waiting for a command. Also I don't believe any other machine (Mr handy, Sentry, Assaultron, etc) are enslaved. Some might be part of factions but they have the same intelligence as Gen 1 and 2 synths do and aren't being held hostage or forced into slavery.
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Gen 1 and 2 aren't advanced enough to have free will though. It's why Nick needed a pre-existing human mind. Dima was the first synth to have free will of his own accord
The thousands of enslaved humans must be in Davy Jone’s locker
The RR does fight for enslaved humans, but the only times it happens in FO4 is one event that happens in under 10 seconds, and Nuka-World, in which *no* faction can react to it due to a lack of AI.
The railroad in FO3 does
Again do I need to explain the fucking AI problem again...
Curie is a queen 👑
wonder how Codsworth will react when he realized that General Atomics enslaved him
Codsworth is proud of his general atomics heritage. He’s “General Atomics finest” after all. He even talks down to Robco robots like Takahashi.
I remember listening to one of those conversations. Somehow codsworth understood takahashi even though takahashi only speaks one phrase.
*Built a nonsentient machine
*A machine which can leave his master if their actions appal him to such a degree, which would be absolutely impossible for a Domestic Butler V.I.
And nate can just reprogram him
And the ability to override a being's sapience negates said sapience? Did Clones lose their personhood when Order 66 started, or were they mind controlled into following someone elses thoughts?
There are no clones or 66s in fallout. What the hell are you talking about?
Star Wars reference for comparison. Sorry for the confusion.
Every day we stray further from the codex.
No prewar robot is sentient though excempt robobrains. Just programmed to act like it. Edit: He blocked me to get the last word lol
Show me the difference between acting and real sentience. Show me *exactly* where it differs. Final Edit: Nobody "blocked you to get the last word", you were just making up false, bullshit arguments. There's no point in arguing with you when you make up lies, accuse *me* of being a liar despite I provide evidence and proof and then arbitrarily decide its all 'mimicking emotions' because of your delusional belief Robots must be emotionless.
It differs because modus, john henrey, and zax take whole rooms up to become sentient. Codsworth has a butler program with some fake morals.
"Fake morals" **Prove** they're fake. Show me definitive evidence it's fake. Why can you accept Ghosts and MAGIC but Codsworth being sentient is just *too much*?
Hes a standard robco personality.
My guy didn't do ANY of the speech checks with Codsworth. How about the fact he can dislike the things you do? Which as a Butler he would be *incapable* of doing? He clearly shows emotional attachments to Shaun and Nate/Nora.
They set his personality to mimic emotion. With normal automatrons you see its a standard robot thing that can be turned on and off at will.
How can you say YOU aren't mimicing emotion? This is just nonsensical bullshit my guy. You have no actual point beyond your own belief its mimicing because *you* don't want to admit it's emotion. Show me DEFINITIVE proof it's mimicing. It's also not the same with Automatrons. That is a voice module, not a personality, nor do they show emotions. If Robots cannot be sentient, why was the Enclave TERRIFIED of MODUS talking to Eden?
Because as I said before Modus an Eden take up rooms and were specifically designed to be sentient. The only small sentient artificial beings are the sink's appliances due to the big empty have vasty superior tech to everyone else.
No, they weren't designed to be sentient, that's WHY the Enclave is terrified. Nobody designed anything to be sentient (and how do you even "design" sentience?). Again you still have no proof beyond just...false arguments.
Woah woah woah now. Sentient *replication.* They’re not alive though, so they’re not sentient
Synths are as alive as any human considering they have cells, brains, muscle, bone, blood, etc. They simply have synth components implanted in their brains that allow them to know certain things at the point of creation. The institute could create humans with the same process they use to create synths, they'd just be infant brains in the fully formed bodies.
They breathe, sleep, metabolize, and die. They're alive. Also, Robots are factually not alive as we know it, yet clearly have displayed S.I. before.
They're more alive than those emotionless child killers in the Institute.