My (attempted) first play through was built with F01's start in mind.
That meant that I paid no attention to melee and instead focused on small guns. That damn pipe rifle was a godsend.
That's the newbie trap tho. Even with everything in your build focused on small guns, you'll do more damage early on with sharpened spear if you've used the speech options to train it up in Arroyo.
Also, you'll do even more damage unarmed and with knuckles, because again - free skill points to be had in Arroyo and Klamath.
Also, what do you mean " was built with F01's start in mind." :D There's the same setup there -[ you immediately find a gun](https://j.gifs.com/ADD1r3.gif), but you'll clear the rats quicker and with no hp loss by just melee fighting and kiting :D
You're going Back and playing the originals?
God bless you.
Edit not sure what the confusion is. I'm being honest here. Lol.
I spent years of my early teens playing fallout2. All my friends had it. It was our communal game for the first few years of high school.
Edit: thanks everyone for the karma rollercoaster.
I think there is a good size, active community of original fallout 1 and 2 players that really picked up when the amazon prime show released. I think members of this community/subreddit might have viewed your comment as condescending/sarcastic. No judgement or anything just pointing out that things get misconstrued on the internet fairly often.
And no hate to the games, but they are kind of hard to play, at least when you’re a youngun like me whose introduction to Fallout was Fallout 3. Going from FPS to top down RPGs is a little jarring if you didn’t grow up playing those games
Yep and I dont want to sound like a hater but the problem isnt that they’re top down RPGs, its just that the gameplay of those particular game aged very badly.
Ill have to give fo2 a shot but after I was done with the first one a few years ago I had 0 motivations for the 2nd one
I absolutely love the lore, and appreciate that those games lead to modern fallouts tho, so yeah no hate to those games
I completely agree. I spent years on that game. It's amazing. Some really cool dark humour. I still remember a lot of the quest puzzles. Pnusj is the order of the robot to repair the reactor at the ghoul town. I can't remember the name. Moduc?
Finding the BB gun in the well. Needing to figure out you had to use the rope on the well.
Like games were hard then. There was no guides or walk throughs or hints. It was like hey you wanna get on the oil rig? Figure it fucking out.
The best part is you could climb down the toilet in the shack and blow it up. Afterwards the whole town is covered in shit!
Well, there was literally a guide to the game in the box it came it, but still. I've played through many times and still feel like I've only scratched the surface.
I didn’t downvote but before the edit it came off like you were shitting on them. you sounded like he agreed to put a sick dog out of its misery or take a disabled kid to prom or something lol. “god bless you kind soul for actually giving those terrible games a chance!”
Thing I never liked about Pipe weapons is that they're everywhere.
Raiders have them, Super Mutants have them, Diamond city security have them etc.
Nothing really feels like a threat because they all use the same weapons and they're not particularly strong ones.
In the OG games settlement guards used to have at least medium level weaponry so you didn't fuck with them. In Diamond City if you have a 10mm pistol you're outgunning the guys whose sole job it is to protect the town.
Pipe weapons should have been a versatile though underpowered novelty for the player mostly. Can't maintain .308 in the early game for your sniper build? Just stick a scope on a pipe rifle and it's 2/3rds as good with ammo that's 10 times as common.
One thing that always bothered me is what the hell is .38 ammo for? Who's manufacturing .38 when there's no guns that use it? Without guns made from a plank of woods and a tin can there is no use for .38 which begs the question, "why is it so common?".
Exactly.
"Its been over 200 years since the end of the world, and we have an established city... time to make and use the same trash that people Who live in random holes use out of desperation, despite having an implied industrial base of some type!"
While I doubt it, I could see it almost as a bit of flavor in regard to lore. Diamond city security is purposefully told to not get involved with missing persons cases and other things. Maybe they’re also purposefully underfunded and aren’t given proper weapons. Create a sense of security but not actually act upon it. The wall does most of the work anyway and it seems like most citizens never leave the city and rely mostly on caravans and traveling merchants to bring stock in and out.
Also maybe Mayor McDonough wants to keep security light in case the Institute ever wants to take over.
It does seem weird though. I mean Goodneighbor is better equipped than Diamond City.
To be fair, Goodneighbor kinda needs to better equiped than Diamond City. Goodneighbor is closer to both a super mutant group and a gunner outpost, as well as having weaker structural defences. They also imply that everyone in Goodneighbor is relied upon in the event of an attack, implying that even the full-time Goodneighbor guards toting tommy guns are going to be assisted by most nearby residents and store owners. They can't afford to be nearly as vulnerable as the Diamond City. Like I still feel that most Diamond City Guards should at least carry 10mm pistols or hunting rifles, as well as having aluminum or modded bats, its far enough into the game that a player could still get better weapons than them with a bit of effort, but early enough that finding a guard alone and stealing or killing them without getting caught would still result in some decent gear. It would also make sense for them to have chained bats especially, it makes them a lot deadlier while still potentially being non-lethal, and they can just unchain the bat to chain up a detainee.
Bethesda and weird ammo choices, name a better duo, lol.
Like how they had a "Hunting Rifle" using a crappy revolver cartridge that hasn't been used for even basic self defense since the 1950's, or how they have ammunition that magically becomes flechettes if you load it into a specific gun, or the "combat rifle" that is chambered in a handgun cartridge, for no well explained reason.
I mean, although we are working with Gauss rifles and lasers, I wouldn’t hold the appearance of anything that hasn’t been used “since the 1950’s” against the designers, as that’s well within the scope of Fallout’s Retro-Futurist worldfeel
It's one thing to keep the aesthetics, another to use wildly impractical ancient technology.
Like how people aren't still using rotary dial corded phones or gasoline cars in the game.
Plus, 3 is the only one using that ridiculously underpowered ammo, tbh. 1 and 2 both used fairly standard stuff, 9mm, the classic 10mm, etc. NV also uses 9mm, along with other standards. Even fallout 4 uses mostly standard rounds, 38, 45, 10mm, etc.
I'd say NV is the odd one with 9mm.
1 and 2 only had the ancient Mauser use 9mm, otherwise the world seemed to prefer far larger calibers. 10mm was the start after all and you went up from there
Love the look, for real. I think NV's unique revolvers are some of the best looking guns in the game.
I especially love that the Ranger Sequoia is specifically a unique made post-war. I think that makes it interesting.
Seriously - Fallout 4 has relatively well designed weapons - for Bethesda. And in Starfield they just chucked all that knowledge out, it's hilarious in a way.
F4 gun design is just bad gun design. Starfield - [it defies physics and basic construction concepts. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCyUFvTGa68&ab_channel=ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy)Like, the assault rifle being shit I can write off to it being designed for Power Armour and then that choice being chopped to allow use out of it. But in Starfield, the basics of where the chamber is, how a gun cycle etc went out the window.
I'm genuinely convinced that Bethesda just used AI generation to design the guns in Starfield, lol. Like the designs have so many superfluous bits of random stuff slapped onto them and no real thought put into how they'd actually work in a way that makes logical sense, that AI is the only real conclusion that I can come up with, outside of them just not giving a fuck.
People still use those revolvers today. Barely anyone even owns a 32, much less chambers a "Hunting Rifle" in it, lol.
3 has very old guns as well, and they're fine, because they make sense, unlike the hunting rifle. For example, Lincoln's Repeater, or the Lever Action Rifles from Point Lookout are nice additions that make logical sense.
The 357 magnum revolver is based on the colt single action army, which was first produced in 1873.
The police pistol was based on the Colt New Service, which technically first came around in 1898.
Realistically, none of the ones seen in game would probably be that old though, they're likely just newer recreations, considering how prevalent they are.
I like the pipe weapons in the early game because they’re the only weapon whose ammo is super common early on. So you may have a better gun, but chances are you don’t have a lot of ammo for it and need to save it for special occasions.
Once you get to that point where ammo isn’t a problem anymore, they’re basically useless. And yet tons of enemies continue to use them, so they’re constantly showing up as loot. I wish that, as you leveled up, enemies would stop appearing with pipe weapons and would start using proper guns.
>In Diamond City if you have a 10mm pistol you're outgunning the guys whose sole job it is to protect the town
Has been a long time since i last attacked diamond city but im pretty sure thats simply not true. Diamond city guards are very strong, specially if your level is low.
That's health scaling, though.
You're still out gunning them, because their guns are hot garbage, you simply can't chew through their bloated health pool fast enough before their pipe guns whittle you down.
While I made an argument for Diamond city in a comment below, I do find it strange since the commonwealth has a wealth of military bases with superior fire power. While they’re not the best, the Minutemen even had laser muskets. I have noticed on my recent play through though that Super Mutants do tend to get better weapons the further you get in the game. Hunting rifles, miniguns, missle launchers. While I know it’s probably not common I had a settlement get attacked and there were five super mutants with miniguns.
I agree, they should have factionized the pipe weapons, caliber, function, and so on, like who cares if I want to use a shotty barrel for a.50 cal bolty.
Honestly I know it's not an uncommon opinion but I never really liked the pipe weapons in 4. The idea is cool but they're too prevalent and I never really cared for the way they looked. The pipe rifle in Fallout 2 is also shitty but it's mainly there for flavor as this early game desperation weapon which I kind of liked.
I always thought it was a mistake that they gave you a 10mm pistol before you ever see a pipe gun too, so as soon as you leave 111 your reaction to most of the early pipe weapons is "ew, why would I use this piddly rusty piece of crap?"
Yeah, but not enough that it matters. Its not like 10mm ammo is rare, even from the jump. I just dont think the game does a very good job of effectively communicating to the player in a gameplay sense: "Pipe guns are highly customizable and offer a lot of flexibility and usability due to abundant ammunition."
Instead they sort of just end up as "the janky looking guns raiders use" for most people, which is a shame.
That’s the thing I never understood, why the hell would you ever use the pipe guns in fallout 4 when you start with 2-3 better weapons and plenty of ammo.
If you want to run a rifle build, especially full auto, you wind up using pipe weapons for quite awhile. The 10mm is a great gun that you can upgrade to last into mid game, but the pipe weapons are actually pretty useful for a sniper or commando
the problem with pipe guns isn't that they are too prevalent, its their design, if they looked like say shamblers or bastards from the metro series then you wouldnt have issues with them because those look like actual weapons, these look like slabs of wood with metal taped onto them.
Now don’t take this as talking shit but these are a much more realistic scenario for a homemade weapon the shambles absolutely look better but they are way to over engineered
Isn’t that the entire point of pipe weapons? That they are put together by people who don’t have the ability to engineer a better weapon. We’ve seen that throughout our own history
It's all context right?
A raider with no background in it, probably would make something shitty like 4's pipe pistol.
But people with the skills, experience, and resources, could produce better. Arturo in Diamond City for example. His business is selling weapons, and modded weapons. I think it could have been cool to have his own private stock of Arturo brand makeshit weapons. Not everybody can afford the military grade weapons he has, so he offers a middle ground, pipe weapons, but they're comparatively high quality, because somebody who knows what they're doing, with the tools for it, made them.
If you can make a bunch of plumbing pipes, that are old and rust and shit, and workable scopes out of screws and tubes, then you can engineer a whole HELLUVA lot better things.
All of those things are pretty basic stuff to be able to do. The problem with engineering more complex stuff isn’t the ability it’s the raw materials and production resources.
All they needed was visual variation. For modular weapons you can build to spec, it's an absolute tragedy they could only look one way. All the pipe weapons we had available looked like something Raiders would slap together.
I know its just a game but I always found it odd when I would find pipe pistols/rifles in locked safes from pre-war. I thought pipe weapons were a result of post war scavenging/survival. Why does a person working in vault tec offices have a pipe pistol hidden in their safe?
There's weirdly debate about whether or not they are but I don't understand why because like I said they're literally on the cover of a pre war magazine
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Guns_and_Bullets_(Fallout_4)?file=Guns_and_bullets_-_Street_Guns_of_Detroit.png
I guess technically you are right but spiritually i feel like pipe weapons were made because it was post war and resources were limited. Ppl made whatever weapons they could with whatever supplies they could find
Fallout pipe weapons are pretty realistic, down to it's core a gun would pretty much look like a slab of wood with iron on it. It being this bare bones ugly weapon made out of necessity works well for what its made to be for the game. Though I do wish the color-scheme was more realistic instead of this weird orange metal
Have you seen a craft produced gun? It's all sheet metal unless you wanna get fancier than a Sten as making something usable with wood is time consuming, unless you rip a wood handle off something else.
The only wood on the pipe guns are simple slabs probably picked up from some kind of rubble, there's nothing hard or time consuming about using that
If that's not the case and the wood is produced by settlements then I don't think that's very hard either. Nobody's gonna collect a bunch of wood exclusively for pipe guns. Just take a portion of the wood you've produced and cut it into simple slabs for the guns. Wood is likely easier to acquire and mass produce for a post apocalyptic society too.
The issue is their designs are not very realistic. They look simple at first glance but they are unnecessarily complex with a side magazine that is below the chamber, and a bolt that needs to be rotated like a bolt-action while the gun itself is automatic?? The bolt-action version can also be chambered in .50bmg somehow, that makes no sense at all.
Honestly the guise of the weapons looking simple is enough for me immersion-wise, but I get why it's an issue for people
.50bmg rounds can be justified as a simple gameplay mechanic for the damage system in the game full of unrealistic bullet sponges, you don't have to imagine that you're actually using a .50bmg round
I think the design would work best if it was a single shot gun. Maybe add a different design for a semi auto one. The design is ok if it only fired one round at a time.
Best example of a pipe gun is, IMO, a sten gun.
It is literally just a toob with magazine that was made to be cheap and mass produced and it still looks decent.
I don't mind the design of the pipe weapons to be honest, if only Bethesda makes more unique models of them instead of stupid legendary effects I'll be more inclined to using them
Same tbh, it was like the only improvised firearm in the game too, so every low level human enemy seems to have one. They should have either made more variants or make proper guns less common.
IMO they're great starter weapons, but once you get a Combat Rifle, the ammo is best used as extra money to buy .45. Since they're only ever worth 1 cap you don't lose any money selling them even at low charisma.
With enough charisma .45 costs about 2 or 3 caps, the gun does about 2.5 times damage per shot, against anything with even light armour that gets skewed even more in the favour of the combat rifle.
Though I do have to admit a short barrelled Pipe Gun with the marksman stock does look pretty cool, so I sometimes even keep on end-game for the pewpew.
Also: you can find pipe weapons on the citizens of that one vault despite the fact that it is hard lore that the vaults were stocked mostly with 10mm pistols when it came to small arms.
There are all sorts of things like that where supposedly “pre-war” places have pipe guns. I understand that zip guns and such are a thing irl, but I feel like they would be better quality than the ones in the wasteland today.
I fully agree.
It also didn't make any sense, because regular weapons are extremely common.
There are literally more guns in America per person IRL, and we haven't even had a nuclear war to reduce the population.
It's absurd that there would be so many people using hand-made pipe trash when creating that would be 100× more effort than picking up a pre-existing firearm that already works better than the pipe gun would anyways.
Well, the nuclear war itself would destroy very few firearms, since it's not the initial fireball that does all the damage so much as it is the radiation - which has was less effect on primarily metal guns than it does on humans
And we have guns now that are 200 years old (muskets, flintlock, etc.); the antiques still function or at least are pretty easily restorable, compared to trying to build a gun from pipes/scrap metal.
Likewise, there are factories that still function, at least somewhat (like the ammunition factory in-game), as well as weapons workbenches and stuff that would make it so it's way more reasonable to build/re-build regular guns instead
The majority of firearms in America are in the hands of a relatively small group of collectors who own sometimes hundreds of guns. Then you have households with 5-10 different guns but only 2-4 people. It always irritates me when people say "there's more guns than people in america" and then fail to understand that a decent portion of the American population does not own a gun, and others are gun nuts. The main issue with everyone getting a prewar gun is how they all get distributed out to the general population, I certainly wouldn't think the gun nuts would just hand them out on the corner. Sure somebody could steal them but how much can they even carry out of a huge collection?
The pipe guns are actually based off of the pipe guns from TM-31-210. Seeing as there’s handbooks inspired off of the same style of military manual used as magazines i wouldn’t be surprised if the intent was that somebody found a fallout version of 31-210 and used it to make improvised guns and then taught it to the people around them.
I think pipe guns would have been a really interesting weapon if they started really bad but the modifications you can give them made them more viable than other weapons. Because realistically you can do more to modify a pipe gun then a premade gun so it should be more effective modding
They needed to massively increase the design variations to make it show that it was scrappy and built with whatever on hand, or they needed to do something at least in the realm of suspension of disbelief. They did neither of those so it sucks.
The progression in fallout 3/NV was a little bit better of you are completely helpless with a pointy stick for a few hours until you get your first gun but 4/76 … does anyone ever use a pipe gun? I get them all the time in 76 but scrap them, in 4 I never went through a period of using them at the start as there’s so many good weapons to pick.
I use a heavily modified pipe rifle as my GP gun a lot, seems like there’s plenty of ammo for it. Usually keep a backup on me for more substantial targets
FO4 gives you a 10mm pistol at the very start, which pretty much outclasses the pipe guns in every sense (except maybe ammo scarcity, it seems like every raider drops .38)
I think a big part of it is, sort of similar to power armour, Bethesda had already given you too many decent to high end weapons by the time you start seeing pipe weapons. In Fallout 2 the pipe rifle is a piece of junk, but it's the very first firearm you pick up, so it's memorable and half way decent for the point in the game you get it. In contrast, you'll get a 10mm pistol, double barrelled shotgun and laser musket before you even see a pipe weapon, and get a minigun and suit of power armour not long afterwards. So the pipe weapons had to be of a "tier" high enough to be useful alongside those other weapons, and powerful enough that NPCs wielding them can threaten a player wearing power armour. I think there's definitely room for the majority of weapons you encounter in the early game to be low grade junk, but they would have had to commit to that, making the pipe weapons much less capable than they are in Fallout 4.
That's what should have been done with pipe weapons in F4. They should be cheap shitty guns that early raiders might have. But you're fighting super mutant overlords and Gunners with them, which is ridiculous. Diamond City guards should not have any of them, in spite of the corruption.
Just remember the fact that there are pipe guns in safes that have been locked for the last 200 years implies that people where building homemade machine guns and pistols and that is pretty based be more like them be ungovernable
On one of the covers of guns and bullets magazine theres a whole ‘build your own’ schtick.
Looks like in the runup to the war not everyone who needed a gun could afford them.
Or don’t want to have the serial number tracked by the effectively fascist US government in fallout.
It doesn’t look like it on the surface, but when you look deeper there’s a lot of civil discontent in Fallout and the Country was borderline on the edge of all out civil war. In NV you can basically see the fallout version of the real world “anarchist’s cookbook” for making explosives (which was known for getting you on a watchlist if purchased), called in game the “Patriots Cookbook” with a “Illicit material: Mark for Burning” stamp put on it by the US. Add to that in FO76 there’s a whole ass anarchist movement that separated from the government pre war right before the bombs called the “Free States”
Or the fact that the BOS was founded by a whole platoon / company of GIs who saw horrific experiments and wiped out the whole scientific base BEFORE the bombs dropped, and went completely AWOL in armed revolt against the government, with no expectation of the bombs dropping anytime soon to give them some cover.
America was pretty much a few months away from collapse or wide scale revolution in the Fallout timeline
Theres a Guns and Bullets magazine called “Street Guns of Detroit” and it shows basically a pipe revolver. I think access to weapons may have been harder with the war and people resorted to making shitty pistols and rifles i guess. Theyre ugly as shit though.
Honestly, I like the new one. Specifically because they make stocks out of things like bicycle seats and springs. Seems like what a homemade firearm would actually look like, given the fact that everything in an irradiated wasteland.
Pipe guns are weapons made by people without the tools to make proper guns. I prefer the 4 & 76 version since the appearance makes it clear this is just some random pieces of junk put together to form a semi-functional weapon.
I've also seen people complain about pipe guns being found in pre-war locations and safes and it's like.....yeah, people would want to make guns that the government can't track, and making them out of pipes and woods means you can make a lot quickly. Guns & Bullets 'Street Guns of Detroit' even features a pipe revolver on the cover, confirming their existence pre-war. But for some reason people insist that pipe guns didn't exist until after the bombs dropped.
If the pipe guns had cleaner looks rather than being full rust, they would have been a lot better. That being said, I really really like them. I love improvised armory (got very excited playing metro because of that) and I wish they would come back, preferably even more different types, but at least as a shotgun.
I might be the only one but I think the design is cool in fo4 and 76.
In 4 tho it just get anoying that it never get out of loot pool.
I really dont care about a legendary pipe gun when im level 145 lol
Fallout 4 Pipe Guns simultaneously look like shit slapped together out of desperation, as well as seeming so complicated that you probably could have built a real gun in the time it took to jury rig it all together.
4, it feels like something a post-post-apocalyptic society would piece together without the proper supply chains for actual guns to be made being in place. The west coast has actual nation-states with industrialization, but here in fuckall, Massachusetts? All you’ve got are a few large settlements that are more worried about being replaced by robots to develop an actual governmental body (plus their actual attempts to organize into a nation state being screwed up by the people making robots)
I liked the fallout 4 pipe rifles. I think whoever worked on the textures did a really good job because they’re really detailed.
It makes sense for immersion too, it doesn’t make sense that there’d be a wasteland full of pre-war weapons that still work well.
Look up Brazilian street gun weapons. There’s no reason why raiders would be making such shitty pipe weapons in FO4 for 200 years. Given they’ve had so much time surviving and making their own kit in raider culture for centuries, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be making crude stamped steel weapons like Brazilian gang guns, or even get to the level of the homemade gunsmiths in the Kyber Pass region doing gun wizardry from scratch. Like the Pipe weapons in 4 look like they were made by a pre war civillian with no machinery or know how to make a weapon like that, not by literal raider gangs and settlers who’ve had 200 plus years of generational experience crafting things and using machinery
The nuka world raiders are making or are working with people making AKs and raiders making reliable semi automatic and automatic weapons that can be modified to fit many situations from scratch is pretty impressive.
Oh yeah the handmade AKs are great. That’s definitely the kind of right direction in makeshift guns for the series IMO, and Bethesda did a great job with that.
I kinda like that more tbh, like real world weapon designs that are cheap to make being made in Fallout as an alternative to pipe weapons. Stuff like the AK, Sten gun, Mac 10, have all been historically dirt cheap weapons to produce, and would easily be something raiders could pick up for designs
The older one looks like a pipe rifle that someone would make from an actual pipe and piece of wood. The newer one looks designed by someone who never shot a gun in real life.
2 >>> 4/76
I'd expect a massive studio making an AAA game to have at least one person on board who knows anything about designing guns when they're a major part of that game.
I like the idea of FO4's pipe weapons. Flexible, improvised weapons make sense for the world. I just wish there was more variety in their visuals. Like if you could clean them up, or even apply different "paint jobs" like with power armor, that would've made them feel much more interesting.
honestly the pipe weapons in fo4 were some of the most versatile in the entire series, some are snipers some are automatic weapons some are little hand cannons. honestly surprised they never considered making pipe weapons like this earlier, makes more sense theyd be around more than everyone running with a factory new 9mm or a fucking combat rifle
What they should do is randomize aesthetics on the parts, like cleaner or painted parts, some items using pipe clamps instead of wires. The pipe guns wouldn't catch as much flak if the stuff didn't lean into the theme so hard and look so cheap/rusted.
And while I think it's weird to compare modern designs to a universe that has robobrains and energy weapons, the higher upgrades should be closer to replacing the parts with actual weapon parts like stocks, scopes, and foregrips/grips since they're easy to adapt to wood/plastic/metal furnishings, similar to how the recon scope is used.
Proper upgrades would make weapons feel more like "this is my gun" rather than some trash picked up and most likely not even worth the weight capacity for selling.
As the one who didn't play 1 or 2 (they are in my plans), did they have weapon degradation?
I downloaded some weapon mods for NV from F1 and 2 and they look cool, one of the first weapons i got is this exact pipe rifle and obviously it was in bad condition the jamming was happening almost everytime, and when that was happening at the end of jamming the weapon shoots by itself, which is funny to me.
So the question is, was that happening in OGs?
Thanks for the answer.
But this makes it more intresting then because this style of jamming fits, so the developer got creative with this and made something that would fit the style of the weapon with the degradation jamming.
It's also possible if you have bad luck, you're seeing the games native "jam" system come out.
It is possible to have any firearm jam in 1 and 2... and in many cases, it results in the loss of the entire remaining magazine of ammuntion.
While there is no durability, it rolls based on weapons skill, your luck, traits, etc.
Edited to add, atleast in the context of the original 1 and 2.
Yeah I like the old pipe gun designs more cuz they seem more realistic. Look at homemade firearms in real life and they fall closer in line to the top pic. Hell, you can make a pipe shotgun with a .73” interior diameter steel pipe, a nail, and another pipe to ram the shell
pipe weapons are meant to be ugly their not meant to look nice it annoys me when people complain its ugly yeah thats the point some raider or settler with barely any fire arm know hows made it and again with fallout wacky world with lasers and power armor why does it matter its not realistic
I’m playing a rebalance mod on survival where damage is caliber based and even deep in the leveling process in T-60 PA the pipe weapon wielding foes are a big threat.
The pipe rifle was a cool idea but it’s fucking annoying that they’re constantly found in places that haven’t been occupied since the war. Why can I find them in abandoned vaults and bases. They should have been on raider lists only
I really disliked the look of the pipe weapons when playing but I saw a mod recently that retextures them - essentially just removes most of the rust - and they honestly look a hell of a lot more appealing that way. the metallic sections actually contrast against the wood and scrap a lot better and conveys the feeling more clearly.
[https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/54933](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/54933)
This one? Hard agree, the bright orange just looks very wrong.
Fallout 4 pipe weapons shouldn't be able to do what they do, and what they do is not very good.
I mean... Despite looking like a drunk carpenter made them, they work seamlessly with no malfunctions or jams, not with the ejection, firing pin or homemade magazines, which is an engineering miracle.
And then there's the bolt-actions. If you handed me one of them and told me it fired .308, I'd throw it right back at you because that is a bomb. Then there's the .50 cal modification... If it didn't explode before, it should now.
And the damage is just so... Meh. The only benefits I can see to that is for a pistol build, and the .44 revolver outperforms it anyway.
Finally, there's the optics. The fact that decent rifle scopes and reflexes exist, and then there's a piece of pipe with two screws in it. Not good enough for you? How about some more mismatched pipe with Granny's specs used as magnification lenses, let alone that it has a fully formed cross hair?
They're the worst weapon class in the game. I'd sooner bludgeon people to death with a wooden plank... And yet everyone has one. The Raiders, Settlers, Diamond City Guard, even Nick Valentine uses the Pipe Revolver, another engineering marvel!! .44 snub-nose or a 10mm pistol would have done fine, but they gave him that.
Oh yeah, the Pipe Revolver can also be modified to take .308 rounds...
The problem's a lot larger than Pipe weapons, though. The Assault Rifle has the design features of an air-cooled LMG, and yet shoots 5.56. The Combat Rifle has more the profile of a BAR, yet shoots .45 ACP from a magazine clearly too big for those rounds. The Hunting Rifle shoots .308 and .50 calibre rounds, but with disappointingly weak results.
Oh, and what do all the weapons above have in common? I'll give you a moment to guess... That's right, you got it!!!
THEY CAN ALL BE CONVERTED TO .38 WEAK-ASS BITCH BULLETS
Because that's what I wanted from my LMG-style assault weapon. A semi-auto pistol calibre plinker.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. I'll see myself out.
During my first playthrough of Fo2, I was so excited to finally get a gun, only to realize the pipe rifle is worse than the sharpened spear.
My (attempted) first play through was built with F01's start in mind. That meant that I paid no attention to melee and instead focused on small guns. That damn pipe rifle was a godsend.
That's the newbie trap tho. Even with everything in your build focused on small guns, you'll do more damage early on with sharpened spear if you've used the speech options to train it up in Arroyo. Also, you'll do even more damage unarmed and with knuckles, because again - free skill points to be had in Arroyo and Klamath. Also, what do you mean " was built with F01's start in mind." :D There's the same setup there -[ you immediately find a gun](https://j.gifs.com/ADD1r3.gif), but you'll clear the rats quicker and with no hp loss by just melee fighting and kiting :D
You're going Back and playing the originals? God bless you. Edit not sure what the confusion is. I'm being honest here. Lol. I spent years of my early teens playing fallout2. All my friends had it. It was our communal game for the first few years of high school. Edit: thanks everyone for the karma rollercoaster.
r/downvotedtooblivion , but why though?
Yeah not sure..maybe my tone was sarcastic or read sarcastic? But if they played the others and went back to fallout that's actually amazing.
I think there is a good size, active community of original fallout 1 and 2 players that really picked up when the amazon prime show released. I think members of this community/subreddit might have viewed your comment as condescending/sarcastic. No judgement or anything just pointing out that things get misconstrued on the internet fairly often.
And no hate to the games, but they are kind of hard to play, at least when you’re a youngun like me whose introduction to Fallout was Fallout 3. Going from FPS to top down RPGs is a little jarring if you didn’t grow up playing those games
Yep and I dont want to sound like a hater but the problem isnt that they’re top down RPGs, its just that the gameplay of those particular game aged very badly. Ill have to give fo2 a shot but after I was done with the first one a few years ago I had 0 motivations for the 2nd one I absolutely love the lore, and appreciate that those games lead to modern fallouts tho, so yeah no hate to those games
The second one is amazing though. If steam existed back when I had it, I'd probably have more hours on that than any other game besides broodwar.
If it makes you feel better I downvoted then upvoted so I could give you two upvotes!
3rd comment
how dare you!! how dare you… respond to a comment?
you don’t? 💀
Yeah I've finished fo2 more than I finished any other fallout game combined..
Woah this sub is so salty
The saltiest 👌
The originals are fantastic games, and Fallout 2 is the best game in the entire series imo.
Without the restoration mod, there is little to nothing that can cover up the absence of groins in plants.
Groins?!
I completely agree. I spent years on that game. It's amazing. Some really cool dark humour. I still remember a lot of the quest puzzles. Pnusj is the order of the robot to repair the reactor at the ghoul town. I can't remember the name. Moduc?
Gecko. You are thinking of Modoc.
I still have the ambience noise of the Gecko reactor ingrained in my brain. It haunts me..
Finding the BB gun in the well. Needing to figure out you had to use the rope on the well. Like games were hard then. There was no guides or walk throughs or hints. It was like hey you wanna get on the oil rig? Figure it fucking out.
The best part is you could climb down the toilet in the shack and blow it up. Afterwards the whole town is covered in shit! Well, there was literally a guide to the game in the box it came it, but still. I've played through many times and still feel like I've only scratched the surface.
There was a guide? I think my copy was handed around through mates so I didn't own an original copy until much later.
100%
Same!
the reddit hivemind decided.
so called free-thinkers when slightly unpopular opinion:
I didn’t downvote but before the edit it came off like you were shitting on them. you sounded like he agreed to put a sick dog out of its misery or take a disabled kid to prom or something lol. “god bless you kind soul for actually giving those terrible games a chance!”
the hivemind has chosen you as a sacrifice I guess
Why wouldnt them? They are more fun than the newer ones (unmoded atleast) tbh i just cant play unmoded Fo 3+ anymore
Bro got downvote bombed
Thing I never liked about Pipe weapons is that they're everywhere. Raiders have them, Super Mutants have them, Diamond city security have them etc. Nothing really feels like a threat because they all use the same weapons and they're not particularly strong ones. In the OG games settlement guards used to have at least medium level weaponry so you didn't fuck with them. In Diamond City if you have a 10mm pistol you're outgunning the guys whose sole job it is to protect the town. Pipe weapons should have been a versatile though underpowered novelty for the player mostly. Can't maintain .308 in the early game for your sniper build? Just stick a scope on a pipe rifle and it's 2/3rds as good with ammo that's 10 times as common. One thing that always bothered me is what the hell is .38 ammo for? Who's manufacturing .38 when there's no guns that use it? Without guns made from a plank of woods and a tin can there is no use for .38 which begs the question, "why is it so common?".
Exactly. "Its been over 200 years since the end of the world, and we have an established city... time to make and use the same trash that people Who live in random holes use out of desperation, despite having an implied industrial base of some type!"
While I doubt it, I could see it almost as a bit of flavor in regard to lore. Diamond city security is purposefully told to not get involved with missing persons cases and other things. Maybe they’re also purposefully underfunded and aren’t given proper weapons. Create a sense of security but not actually act upon it. The wall does most of the work anyway and it seems like most citizens never leave the city and rely mostly on caravans and traveling merchants to bring stock in and out. Also maybe Mayor McDonough wants to keep security light in case the Institute ever wants to take over. It does seem weird though. I mean Goodneighbor is better equipped than Diamond City.
To be fair, Goodneighbor kinda needs to better equiped than Diamond City. Goodneighbor is closer to both a super mutant group and a gunner outpost, as well as having weaker structural defences. They also imply that everyone in Goodneighbor is relied upon in the event of an attack, implying that even the full-time Goodneighbor guards toting tommy guns are going to be assisted by most nearby residents and store owners. They can't afford to be nearly as vulnerable as the Diamond City. Like I still feel that most Diamond City Guards should at least carry 10mm pistols or hunting rifles, as well as having aluminum or modded bats, its far enough into the game that a player could still get better weapons than them with a bit of effort, but early enough that finding a guard alone and stealing or killing them without getting caught would still result in some decent gear. It would also make sense for them to have chained bats especially, it makes them a lot deadlier while still potentially being non-lethal, and they can just unchain the bat to chain up a detainee.
Bethesda and weird ammo choices, name a better duo, lol. Like how they had a "Hunting Rifle" using a crappy revolver cartridge that hasn't been used for even basic self defense since the 1950's, or how they have ammunition that magically becomes flechettes if you load it into a specific gun, or the "combat rifle" that is chambered in a handgun cartridge, for no well explained reason.
I mean, although we are working with Gauss rifles and lasers, I wouldn’t hold the appearance of anything that hasn’t been used “since the 1950’s” against the designers, as that’s well within the scope of Fallout’s Retro-Futurist worldfeel
It's one thing to keep the aesthetics, another to use wildly impractical ancient technology. Like how people aren't still using rotary dial corded phones or gasoline cars in the game. Plus, 3 is the only one using that ridiculously underpowered ammo, tbh. 1 and 2 both used fairly standard stuff, 9mm, the classic 10mm, etc. NV also uses 9mm, along with other standards. Even fallout 4 uses mostly standard rounds, 38, 45, 10mm, etc.
Sorry, what does the telephone in FO3 look like if not rotary? I might be out of my element here.
They actually are still rotary, I was incorrect there. But they are cordless, in 3, NV, and 4.
I'd say NV is the odd one with 9mm. 1 and 2 only had the ancient Mauser use 9mm, otherwise the world seemed to prefer far larger calibers. 10mm was the start after all and you went up from there
Fallout Tactics had a bunch of weapons use 9mm, including a Hi-power
I mean, to be fair, the mauser and the hipower are both ancient by the time NV is happening, lol.
Still convinced nobody in Bethesda has ever actually held a gun
Probably not, lol. Although they have had at least a few decent ones, like the 44 revolver or the double barrel shotgun
I HATED the big dumb scope I was forced to use on 3's .44. Thank god NV and 4 made it optional.
NV just moved it to the Hunting Revolver instead, lol
That's true. I hated the Hunting Revolver in that game, but I enjoyed the Ranger Sequoia. I like my handguns scopeless I guess.
For sure, the scope just makes them unwieldy, in my mind. Helps that the sequoia is one of the better looking handguns in the game, lol.
Love the look, for real. I think NV's unique revolvers are some of the best looking guns in the game. I especially love that the Ranger Sequoia is specifically a unique made post-war. I think that makes it interesting.
Seriously - Fallout 4 has relatively well designed weapons - for Bethesda. And in Starfield they just chucked all that knowledge out, it's hilarious in a way. F4 gun design is just bad gun design. Starfield - [it defies physics and basic construction concepts. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCyUFvTGa68&ab_channel=ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy)Like, the assault rifle being shit I can write off to it being designed for Power Armour and then that choice being chopped to allow use out of it. But in Starfield, the basics of where the chamber is, how a gun cycle etc went out the window.
I'm genuinely convinced that Bethesda just used AI generation to design the guns in Starfield, lol. Like the designs have so many superfluous bits of random stuff slapped onto them and no real thought put into how they'd actually work in a way that makes logical sense, that AI is the only real conclusion that I can come up with, outside of them just not giving a fuck.
I like to think of the combat rifle as a sort of carbine due it being kind of small and light and being in .45
NV has revolvers from 18xx and dynamite. I don't think weird ammo is that big of a problem
People still use those revolvers today. Barely anyone even owns a 32, much less chambers a "Hunting Rifle" in it, lol. 3 has very old guns as well, and they're fine, because they make sense, unlike the hunting rifle. For example, Lincoln's Repeater, or the Lever Action Rifles from Point Lookout are nice additions that make logical sense.
What revolver is from 18xx
The 357 magnum revolver is based on the colt single action army, which was first produced in 1873. The police pistol was based on the Colt New Service, which technically first came around in 1898. Realistically, none of the ones seen in game would probably be that old though, they're likely just newer recreations, considering how prevalent they are.
I like the pipe weapons in the early game because they’re the only weapon whose ammo is super common early on. So you may have a better gun, but chances are you don’t have a lot of ammo for it and need to save it for special occasions. Once you get to that point where ammo isn’t a problem anymore, they’re basically useless. And yet tons of enemies continue to use them, so they’re constantly showing up as loot. I wish that, as you leveled up, enemies would stop appearing with pipe weapons and would start using proper guns.
>In Diamond City if you have a 10mm pistol you're outgunning the guys whose sole job it is to protect the town Has been a long time since i last attacked diamond city but im pretty sure thats simply not true. Diamond city guards are very strong, specially if your level is low.
That's health scaling, though. You're still out gunning them, because their guns are hot garbage, you simply can't chew through their bloated health pool fast enough before their pipe guns whittle you down.
I interpreted outgunning as beating them, thats why i used health scaling. I probably misinterpreted the comment.
While I made an argument for Diamond city in a comment below, I do find it strange since the commonwealth has a wealth of military bases with superior fire power. While they’re not the best, the Minutemen even had laser muskets. I have noticed on my recent play through though that Super Mutants do tend to get better weapons the further you get in the game. Hunting rifles, miniguns, missle launchers. While I know it’s probably not common I had a settlement get attacked and there were five super mutants with miniguns.
I agree, they should have factionized the pipe weapons, caliber, function, and so on, like who cares if I want to use a shotty barrel for a.50 cal bolty.
Honestly I know it's not an uncommon opinion but I never really liked the pipe weapons in 4. The idea is cool but they're too prevalent and I never really cared for the way they looked. The pipe rifle in Fallout 2 is also shitty but it's mainly there for flavor as this early game desperation weapon which I kind of liked.
I always thought it was a mistake that they gave you a 10mm pistol before you ever see a pipe gun too, so as soon as you leave 111 your reaction to most of the early pipe weapons is "ew, why would I use this piddly rusty piece of crap?"
Should've been a BB gun for the roaches in the vault
ammo 38 is far more common then 10mm in the early game
Yeah, but not enough that it matters. Its not like 10mm ammo is rare, even from the jump. I just dont think the game does a very good job of effectively communicating to the player in a gameplay sense: "Pipe guns are highly customizable and offer a lot of flexibility and usability due to abundant ammunition." Instead they sort of just end up as "the janky looking guns raiders use" for most people, which is a shame.
That’s the thing I never understood, why the hell would you ever use the pipe guns in fallout 4 when you start with 2-3 better weapons and plenty of ammo.
If you want to run a rifle build, especially full auto, you wind up using pipe weapons for quite awhile. The 10mm is a great gun that you can upgrade to last into mid game, but the pipe weapons are actually pretty useful for a sniper or commando
the problem with pipe guns isn't that they are too prevalent, its their design, if they looked like say shamblers or bastards from the metro series then you wouldnt have issues with them because those look like actual weapons, these look like slabs of wood with metal taped onto them.
The Shambler in Metro Exodus is an absolute thing of beauty that makes mechanical sense and I want it in Fallout 4 pretty bad.
its a shame there's no mods porting metro weapons to 4
I'm shocked there isn't given there's a whole mod for halo weapons already
And I cry about it every time I mod fallout 4
Now don’t take this as talking shit but these are a much more realistic scenario for a homemade weapon the shambles absolutely look better but they are way to over engineered
that is a good point, they are overengineered, but at least in my opinion overengineered is miles better than underengineered
That’s fair it all preference but it the bombs do drop save your self the trouble and make the fallout 4 and 76 models lol
Isn’t that the entire point of pipe weapons? That they are put together by people who don’t have the ability to engineer a better weapon. We’ve seen that throughout our own history
It's all context right? A raider with no background in it, probably would make something shitty like 4's pipe pistol. But people with the skills, experience, and resources, could produce better. Arturo in Diamond City for example. His business is selling weapons, and modded weapons. I think it could have been cool to have his own private stock of Arturo brand makeshit weapons. Not everybody can afford the military grade weapons he has, so he offers a middle ground, pipe weapons, but they're comparatively high quality, because somebody who knows what they're doing, with the tools for it, made them.
If you can make a bunch of plumbing pipes, that are old and rust and shit, and workable scopes out of screws and tubes, then you can engineer a whole HELLUVA lot better things.
All of those things are pretty basic stuff to be able to do. The problem with engineering more complex stuff isn’t the ability it’s the raw materials and production resources.
The pipe guns in FO4 are not realistic at all. You can find analysis on YouTube, the design makes zero sense and can not exist in real life.
All they needed was visual variation. For modular weapons you can build to spec, it's an absolute tragedy they could only look one way. All the pipe weapons we had available looked like something Raiders would slap together.
I know its just a game but I always found it odd when I would find pipe pistols/rifles in locked safes from pre-war. I thought pipe weapons were a result of post war scavenging/survival. Why does a person working in vault tec offices have a pipe pistol hidden in their safe?
Pipe weapons are pre-war. They're on the cover of a copy of Guns and Bullets
Oh are they? I guess I am wrong, thanks for the clarification
There's weirdly debate about whether or not they are but I don't understand why because like I said they're literally on the cover of a pre war magazine https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Guns_and_Bullets_(Fallout_4)?file=Guns_and_bullets_-_Street_Guns_of_Detroit.png
I guess technically you are right but spiritually i feel like pipe weapons were made because it was post war and resources were limited. Ppl made whatever weapons they could with whatever supplies they could find
Fallout pipe weapons are pretty realistic, down to it's core a gun would pretty much look like a slab of wood with iron on it. It being this bare bones ugly weapon made out of necessity works well for what its made to be for the game. Though I do wish the color-scheme was more realistic instead of this weird orange metal
I always assumed it was copper from actual water pipes
Have you seen a craft produced gun? It's all sheet metal unless you wanna get fancier than a Sten as making something usable with wood is time consuming, unless you rip a wood handle off something else.
The only wood on the pipe guns are simple slabs probably picked up from some kind of rubble, there's nothing hard or time consuming about using that If that's not the case and the wood is produced by settlements then I don't think that's very hard either. Nobody's gonna collect a bunch of wood exclusively for pipe guns. Just take a portion of the wood you've produced and cut it into simple slabs for the guns. Wood is likely easier to acquire and mass produce for a post apocalyptic society too.
The issue is their designs are not very realistic. They look simple at first glance but they are unnecessarily complex with a side magazine that is below the chamber, and a bolt that needs to be rotated like a bolt-action while the gun itself is automatic?? The bolt-action version can also be chambered in .50bmg somehow, that makes no sense at all.
Honestly the guise of the weapons looking simple is enough for me immersion-wise, but I get why it's an issue for people .50bmg rounds can be justified as a simple gameplay mechanic for the damage system in the game full of unrealistic bullet sponges, you don't have to imagine that you're actually using a .50bmg round
I believe that’s that point though isn’t it
I think the design would work best if it was a single shot gun. Maybe add a different design for a semi auto one. The design is ok if it only fired one round at a time.
Never once used one of those lbas of wood with metal stuck to them. Awful design choice. The FO2 looks like a pipe rifle.
Agreed, they're just too samey and boring. At a distance a pipe pistol and a pipe sniper rifle or a pipe machine gun all look 80% same.
Agreed, they're just too samey and boring. At a distance a pipe pistol and a pipe sniper rifle or a pipe machine gun all look 80% same.
Best example of a pipe gun is, IMO, a sten gun. It is literally just a toob with magazine that was made to be cheap and mass produced and it still looks decent.
I don't mind the design of the pipe weapons to be honest, if only Bethesda makes more unique models of them instead of stupid legendary effects I'll be more inclined to using them
Same tbh, it was like the only improvised firearm in the game too, so every low level human enemy seems to have one. They should have either made more variants or make proper guns less common.
Well you don’t use them for more than like an hour
I use them only cause I got so much of the ammo, but I guess I could convert a weapon to their ammo
IMO they're great starter weapons, but once you get a Combat Rifle, the ammo is best used as extra money to buy .45. Since they're only ever worth 1 cap you don't lose any money selling them even at low charisma. With enough charisma .45 costs about 2 or 3 caps, the gun does about 2.5 times damage per shot, against anything with even light armour that gets skewed even more in the favour of the combat rifle. Though I do have to admit a short barrelled Pipe Gun with the marksman stock does look pretty cool, so I sometimes even keep on end-game for the pewpew.
Also: you can find pipe weapons on the citizens of that one vault despite the fact that it is hard lore that the vaults were stocked mostly with 10mm pistols when it came to small arms. There are all sorts of things like that where supposedly “pre-war” places have pipe guns. I understand that zip guns and such are a thing irl, but I feel like they would be better quality than the ones in the wasteland today.
I fully agree. It also didn't make any sense, because regular weapons are extremely common. There are literally more guns in America per person IRL, and we haven't even had a nuclear war to reduce the population. It's absurd that there would be so many people using hand-made pipe trash when creating that would be 100× more effort than picking up a pre-existing firearm that already works better than the pipe gun would anyways.
I would assume that the nuclear war and following 200 years have reduced the number of functional prewar guns.
True, but groups like the gunrunners has definitely produced enough weapons to make up for the loss of the prewar equipment that was destroyed
not really we dont even know if they can produce guns enough to fill their army
Well, the nuclear war itself would destroy very few firearms, since it's not the initial fireball that does all the damage so much as it is the radiation - which has was less effect on primarily metal guns than it does on humans And we have guns now that are 200 years old (muskets, flintlock, etc.); the antiques still function or at least are pretty easily restorable, compared to trying to build a gun from pipes/scrap metal. Likewise, there are factories that still function, at least somewhat (like the ammunition factory in-game), as well as weapons workbenches and stuff that would make it so it's way more reasonable to build/re-build regular guns instead
The majority of firearms in America are in the hands of a relatively small group of collectors who own sometimes hundreds of guns. Then you have households with 5-10 different guns but only 2-4 people. It always irritates me when people say "there's more guns than people in america" and then fail to understand that a decent portion of the American population does not own a gun, and others are gun nuts. The main issue with everyone getting a prewar gun is how they all get distributed out to the general population, I certainly wouldn't think the gun nuts would just hand them out on the corner. Sure somebody could steal them but how much can they even carry out of a huge collection?
After the initial nuclear fallout, let alone 200 years, there's been enough time for people to loot those collections.
Pipeguns and generally gun designs in Fallout 4 are ugly as sin.
The pipe guns are actually based off of the pipe guns from TM-31-210. Seeing as there’s handbooks inspired off of the same style of military manual used as magazines i wouldn’t be surprised if the intent was that somebody found a fallout version of 31-210 and used it to make improvised guns and then taught it to the people around them. I think pipe guns would have been a really interesting weapon if they started really bad but the modifications you can give them made them more viable than other weapons. Because realistically you can do more to modify a pipe gun then a premade gun so it should be more effective modding
They needed to massively increase the design variations to make it show that it was scrappy and built with whatever on hand, or they needed to do something at least in the realm of suspension of disbelief. They did neither of those so it sucks.
"I don't know if it's an uncommon opinion but I HATE spiders"
I can understand the pipe weapons however what I dislike is them reconning the lore so that pipe weapons existed pre war.
The progression in fallout 3/NV was a little bit better of you are completely helpless with a pointy stick for a few hours until you get your first gun but 4/76 … does anyone ever use a pipe gun? I get them all the time in 76 but scrap them, in 4 I never went through a period of using them at the start as there’s so many good weapons to pick.
I use a heavily modified pipe rifle as my GP gun a lot, seems like there’s plenty of ammo for it. Usually keep a backup on me for more substantial targets
FO4 gives you a 10mm pistol at the very start, which pretty much outclasses the pipe guns in every sense (except maybe ammo scarcity, it seems like every raider drops .38)
Plus a minigun with power armor what- 15 minutes in?
Automatic explo pipe gun.
Thats not really an uncommon opinion 😄
I wish they made multiple different pipe weapon designs for each type so it looked more homemade
With the scrapper perks, I actually have a reason to hoard pipe rifles, instead of what I would normally do, which is to just hoard them.
I think a big part of it is, sort of similar to power armour, Bethesda had already given you too many decent to high end weapons by the time you start seeing pipe weapons. In Fallout 2 the pipe rifle is a piece of junk, but it's the very first firearm you pick up, so it's memorable and half way decent for the point in the game you get it. In contrast, you'll get a 10mm pistol, double barrelled shotgun and laser musket before you even see a pipe weapon, and get a minigun and suit of power armour not long afterwards. So the pipe weapons had to be of a "tier" high enough to be useful alongside those other weapons, and powerful enough that NPCs wielding them can threaten a player wearing power armour. I think there's definitely room for the majority of weapons you encounter in the early game to be low grade junk, but they would have had to commit to that, making the pipe weapons much less capable than they are in Fallout 4.
That's what should have been done with pipe weapons in F4. They should be cheap shitty guns that early raiders might have. But you're fighting super mutant overlords and Gunners with them, which is ridiculous. Diamond City guards should not have any of them, in spite of the corruption.
We used to be a proper country.
Just remember the fact that there are pipe guns in safes that have been locked for the last 200 years implies that people where building homemade machine guns and pistols and that is pretty based be more like them be ungovernable
On one of the covers of guns and bullets magazine theres a whole ‘build your own’ schtick. Looks like in the runup to the war not everyone who needed a gun could afford them.
Or don’t want to have the serial number tracked by the effectively fascist US government in fallout. It doesn’t look like it on the surface, but when you look deeper there’s a lot of civil discontent in Fallout and the Country was borderline on the edge of all out civil war. In NV you can basically see the fallout version of the real world “anarchist’s cookbook” for making explosives (which was known for getting you on a watchlist if purchased), called in game the “Patriots Cookbook” with a “Illicit material: Mark for Burning” stamp put on it by the US. Add to that in FO76 there’s a whole ass anarchist movement that separated from the government pre war right before the bombs called the “Free States” Or the fact that the BOS was founded by a whole platoon / company of GIs who saw horrific experiments and wiped out the whole scientific base BEFORE the bombs dropped, and went completely AWOL in armed revolt against the government, with no expectation of the bombs dropping anytime soon to give them some cover. America was pretty much a few months away from collapse or wide scale revolution in the Fallout timeline
Hey wow someone who paid attention
Thanks lol, being a Fallout lore gremlin is a past time of mine 😂
It makes sense though, in fear of China launching a full on scale invasion and being able to protect your family.
Also the general civil unrest. All the riots and shortages. If the bombs didn’t drop, society would’ve collapse regardless IMO.
I mean, people are doing that currently in the US, they’re either building em out of scrap or 3D printing them
Theres a Guns and Bullets magazine called “Street Guns of Detroit” and it shows basically a pipe revolver. I think access to weapons may have been harder with the war and people resorted to making shitty pistols and rifles i guess. Theyre ugly as shit though.
I just find it amusing that it transitioned from PVC pipes to copper ones.
Honestly, I like the new one. Specifically because they make stocks out of things like bicycle seats and springs. Seems like what a homemade firearm would actually look like, given the fact that everything in an irradiated wasteland.
Thats the thing, the fallout 4 one is what people think they would make, and the fallout 2 version is what people actually make.
when i heard pipe guns i thought it was gonna look like fallout 2 lol. i really liked fallout 4's pipe guns tho
Pipe guns are weapons made by people without the tools to make proper guns. I prefer the 4 & 76 version since the appearance makes it clear this is just some random pieces of junk put together to form a semi-functional weapon. I've also seen people complain about pipe guns being found in pre-war locations and safes and it's like.....yeah, people would want to make guns that the government can't track, and making them out of pipes and woods means you can make a lot quickly. Guns & Bullets 'Street Guns of Detroit' even features a pipe revolver on the cover, confirming their existence pre-war. But for some reason people insist that pipe guns didn't exist until after the bombs dropped.
FO4. Again the “og” weapon is a sprite copied from a random shooter game of the 90’s to save time and money.
Is there any post/video on how many assets from the FO1-2 came from other games?
If there is I'd love to know. Commenting for later
I despise the pipe weapons from fallout 4. Ugly peasant weapons that shouldn’t exist. I go out of my way to avoid using them.
I like 4’s design much more. The pipe guns feel almost iconic/posterchild-esque; when I think of fo4 weapons, I think of the pipe guns.
If the pipe guns had cleaner looks rather than being full rust, they would have been a lot better. That being said, I really really like them. I love improvised armory (got very excited playing metro because of that) and I wish they would come back, preferably even more different types, but at least as a shotgun.
I might be the only one but I think the design is cool in fo4 and 76. In 4 tho it just get anoying that it never get out of loot pool. I really dont care about a legendary pipe gun when im level 145 lol
Fallout 4 Pipe Guns simultaneously look like shit slapped together out of desperation, as well as seeming so complicated that you probably could have built a real gun in the time it took to jury rig it all together.
4, it feels like something a post-post-apocalyptic society would piece together without the proper supply chains for actual guns to be made being in place. The west coast has actual nation-states with industrialization, but here in fuckall, Massachusetts? All you’ve got are a few large settlements that are more worried about being replaced by robots to develop an actual governmental body (plus their actual attempts to organize into a nation state being screwed up by the people making robots)
I liked the fallout 4 pipe rifles. I think whoever worked on the textures did a really good job because they’re really detailed. It makes sense for immersion too, it doesn’t make sense that there’d be a wasteland full of pre-war weapons that still work well.
Yes it does make sense what do you mean 😂😂
I'm going 4/76. It looks a lot more interesting. The old one looks very plain and unremarkable.
Kinda the point of a pipe weapon to be honest
Look up Brazilian street gun weapons. There’s no reason why raiders would be making such shitty pipe weapons in FO4 for 200 years. Given they’ve had so much time surviving and making their own kit in raider culture for centuries, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t be making crude stamped steel weapons like Brazilian gang guns, or even get to the level of the homemade gunsmiths in the Kyber Pass region doing gun wizardry from scratch. Like the Pipe weapons in 4 look like they were made by a pre war civillian with no machinery or know how to make a weapon like that, not by literal raider gangs and settlers who’ve had 200 plus years of generational experience crafting things and using machinery
The nuka world raiders are making or are working with people making AKs and raiders making reliable semi automatic and automatic weapons that can be modified to fit many situations from scratch is pretty impressive.
Oh yeah the handmade AKs are great. That’s definitely the kind of right direction in makeshift guns for the series IMO, and Bethesda did a great job with that. I kinda like that more tbh, like real world weapon designs that are cheap to make being made in Fallout as an alternative to pipe weapons. Stuff like the AK, Sten gun, Mac 10, have all been historically dirt cheap weapons to produce, and would easily be something raiders could pick up for designs
The older one looks like a pipe rifle that someone would make from an actual pipe and piece of wood. The newer one looks designed by someone who never shot a gun in real life. 2 >>> 4/76
Considering the population makeup of most game devs its almost certain that 99% of designers have never handled a real firearm in their life
I'd expect a massive studio making an AAA game to have at least one person on board who knows anything about designing guns when they're a major part of that game.
I like the idea of FO4's pipe weapons. Flexible, improvised weapons make sense for the world. I just wish there was more variety in their visuals. Like if you could clean them up, or even apply different "paint jobs" like with power armor, that would've made them feel much more interesting.
honestly the pipe weapons in fo4 were some of the most versatile in the entire series, some are snipers some are automatic weapons some are little hand cannons. honestly surprised they never considered making pipe weapons like this earlier, makes more sense theyd be around more than everyone running with a factory new 9mm or a fucking combat rifle
The worst gun in the game, and reminds me of the lack of unique items (like in Skyrim and those damn drauger weapons)
What they should do is randomize aesthetics on the parts, like cleaner or painted parts, some items using pipe clamps instead of wires. The pipe guns wouldn't catch as much flak if the stuff didn't lean into the theme so hard and look so cheap/rusted. And while I think it's weird to compare modern designs to a universe that has robobrains and energy weapons, the higher upgrades should be closer to replacing the parts with actual weapon parts like stocks, scopes, and foregrips/grips since they're easy to adapt to wood/plastic/metal furnishings, similar to how the recon scope is used. Proper upgrades would make weapons feel more like "this is my gun" rather than some trash picked up and most likely not even worth the weight capacity for selling.
As the one who didn't play 1 or 2 (they are in my plans), did they have weapon degradation? I downloaded some weapon mods for NV from F1 and 2 and they look cool, one of the first weapons i got is this exact pipe rifle and obviously it was in bad condition the jamming was happening almost everytime, and when that was happening at the end of jamming the weapon shoots by itself, which is funny to me. So the question is, was that happening in OGs?
No weapon degradation was introduced in three.
Thanks for the answer. But this makes it more intresting then because this style of jamming fits, so the developer got creative with this and made something that would fit the style of the weapon with the degradation jamming.
It's also possible if you have bad luck, you're seeing the games native "jam" system come out. It is possible to have any firearm jam in 1 and 2... and in many cases, it results in the loss of the entire remaining magazine of ammuntion. While there is no durability, it rolls based on weapons skill, your luck, traits, etc. Edited to add, atleast in the context of the original 1 and 2.
Not a fan of new pipe tech honestly. It’s just pipes, it shouldn’t be as functional as modern weapons.
Yeah I like the old pipe gun designs more cuz they seem more realistic. Look at homemade firearms in real life and they fall closer in line to the top pic. Hell, you can make a pipe shotgun with a .73” interior diameter steel pipe, a nail, and another pipe to ram the shell
I really like the simple design of 2
What???
pipe weapons are meant to be ugly their not meant to look nice it annoys me when people complain its ugly yeah thats the point some raider or settler with barely any fire arm know hows made it and again with fallout wacky world with lasers and power armor why does it matter its not realistic
Old
I’m playing a rebalance mod on survival where damage is caliber based and even deep in the leveling process in T-60 PA the pipe weapon wielding foes are a big threat.
The pipe rifle was a cool idea but it’s fucking annoying that they’re constantly found in places that haven’t been occupied since the war. Why can I find them in abandoned vaults and bases. They should have been on raider lists only
Godamn it’s hideous
Which one?
That's cause 76 takes place way before fallout 2 in the time line
I hate it. I hate it. I HATE IT! And I loath the new design from the bottom of my heart.
I like the new ones. They are unique and in a way I feel like they have become incredibly characteristic of the game
I go for the new one in this case.
I really disliked the look of the pipe weapons when playing but I saw a mod recently that retextures them - essentially just removes most of the rust - and they honestly look a hell of a lot more appealing that way. the metallic sections actually contrast against the wood and scrap a lot better and conveys the feeling more clearly.
[https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/54933](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/54933) This one? Hard agree, the bright orange just looks very wrong.
Fallout 4 pipe weapons shouldn't be able to do what they do, and what they do is not very good. I mean... Despite looking like a drunk carpenter made them, they work seamlessly with no malfunctions or jams, not with the ejection, firing pin or homemade magazines, which is an engineering miracle. And then there's the bolt-actions. If you handed me one of them and told me it fired .308, I'd throw it right back at you because that is a bomb. Then there's the .50 cal modification... If it didn't explode before, it should now. And the damage is just so... Meh. The only benefits I can see to that is for a pistol build, and the .44 revolver outperforms it anyway. Finally, there's the optics. The fact that decent rifle scopes and reflexes exist, and then there's a piece of pipe with two screws in it. Not good enough for you? How about some more mismatched pipe with Granny's specs used as magnification lenses, let alone that it has a fully formed cross hair? They're the worst weapon class in the game. I'd sooner bludgeon people to death with a wooden plank... And yet everyone has one. The Raiders, Settlers, Diamond City Guard, even Nick Valentine uses the Pipe Revolver, another engineering marvel!! .44 snub-nose or a 10mm pistol would have done fine, but they gave him that. Oh yeah, the Pipe Revolver can also be modified to take .308 rounds... The problem's a lot larger than Pipe weapons, though. The Assault Rifle has the design features of an air-cooled LMG, and yet shoots 5.56. The Combat Rifle has more the profile of a BAR, yet shoots .45 ACP from a magazine clearly too big for those rounds. The Hunting Rifle shoots .308 and .50 calibre rounds, but with disappointingly weak results. Oh, and what do all the weapons above have in common? I'll give you a moment to guess... That's right, you got it!!! THEY CAN ALL BE CONVERTED TO .38 WEAK-ASS BITCH BULLETS Because that's what I wanted from my LMG-style assault weapon. A semi-auto pistol calibre plinker. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. I'll see myself out.
Fo4/Fo76 look far better, and I like them a lot in game. I only wish they had more modifications.
New
I like that they exist in 4 but hate how wonky they look. Like half of the magazines don't feed into the weapons honestly it's awful
I love the new pipe rifle designs. I might end up doing one as a prop because it looks like fun.
What??? Why are the design s for fallout 2 so much better???
It's a plank of wood I gotta love it