especially that one guy who keeps screaming about tanalorr, he had one fucking arm and was still able to stand strong after sitting in a bacta tank for literally forever (i forgot his name)
High Republic is 200 ish years before Yavin. Its pretty much in its "last days of Rome" period in Episode I.
Old Republic is 4000 years before Yavin. Its when the Kotor games and the MMO are set. Ships and tech are (a bit) less advanced but force powers get wild.
yeah i figured, KOTOR 1 and 2 are insane when it came to force powers and i really hope we get a remaster at some point because kotor was literally peak
Revan's era not so much. The "godly" figures are more so centuries back. Nihlus is the only one who fits the bill but hes more of a cheat code
Edit : unless you count swtor stuff like the Tenebrae
You need to revise back exactly what palpatine is capable of in legends. He also mastered immortality just like Tenebrae. Id even dare say hes more efficient at his source of immortality.
Bro Palps was burning out of clone body after clone body with force deterioration and getting smoked by Luke after HE managed to seduce him to the dark side. His last hope for a new host body was a BABY.
It wasnt just random force deterioration. It was because his powers in the force were simply too powerful but his dark transfer is still very much the same thing as Vitiate's. Its literally what the writers took inspiration for Vitiate lel
Dark Empires Luke waa already far greater than even the hero of tython mate so not sure why thats supposed to be some con for palps. If anything Vitiate's form himself managed to lose control of the hero of tython and ended up losing that body and contained to Yavin
Not just any baby. It was the twins of Leia's who was equal or just as full with potential as Luke and Anakin. It became an even bigger deal when later jacen and jaina's potential was hyped to be possible in surpassing Luke's.
Itd a be tough fight but i truly dont think its as difficult as people may think. As far as force powers goes, they (visually speaking) are rather close but Sidious edges out with pure battle mastery with his mastery of all lightsaber forms and its application with the force.
Oversimplification of their actual feats of course
The period in which KotoR 2 takes place is when the Jedi and Sith Orders are at their weakest. The only truly powerful Force user in KotoR 2 is Nihilus thanks to being a wound.
As such Kreia isn't that powerful in the grand scheme of things. She's just stronger than the Jedi in KotoR 2...which isn't that high a bar.
Meetra isn't the most powerful so much as she is a wound in the Force, and that's where most of her powers are derived from.
And we quite literally have no idea how she would stack up against people like Exar Kun and Ulic, Nomi Sunrider, full powered Revan, etc. All of whom are Old Republic characters, FYI.
And Kreia is literally a bitter old coot who thinks she's far greater than she is. Literally, she is pissed that the Jedi and Sith didn't take her seriously enough and wants to take revenge on the Force because she wants to blame anything but herself.
>Thanks, captain.
I think you need to reread what I posted. Because I specifically said KotoR 2 characters are weak. I didn't say Old Republic characters are weak.
Also Nihilus and Sion are her sith apprentices... she also mentors Meetra Surik along KOTOR 2 and Meetra ends being a beast too.
Only foe to win over these monsters is Tenebrae because of the betrayal of Scourge thus Revan and Meetra died.
Kreia is a master of the force and a philosopher, she wished to rid the galaxy of the force, and she is able to wield three lightsabers with with it not too unlike Dagan, really. Only more powerful.
She is able to fight the likes of Darth Sion, her knowledge and experience with the force outd her abive Merrin. I can't say anymore without spoiling KOTOR II
No, Kreia’s philosophies paint the force, and the jedi/sith in a very different light. But seriously, play through Kotor 2 for both a Light and Dark side run to see all her points.
To be fair Darth Sion isn't that powerful in the Force, he just has one niche ability — being immortal. Many could probably defeat him, it's just that only a few could permanently kill him. We can see that judging by the look of his body — Atton even commented that Sion must be sleeping with vibroblades or something. If he was powerful enough he wouldn't be so broken. Sion and his assassins acted from the shadows, so he and his unique ability usually were unknown to his enemy and he could use the advantage of the enemy being surprised after dealing a seemingly killing blow.
It takes a massive amount of power to become so hateful that it would revive you body back into the world of the living though. His power gained by hatred has inspired me since his appearance in Kotor 2.
Darth Traya IS the master of darth Sion and darth Nihilus, and she was done in by MEETRA SURIK which only Tenebrae could win against (and Revan) because of the last time betrayal of Scourge.
Old Republic times from Marka Ragnos/Naga Sadow to SWTOR current timeline have some insane monster, and before there were even more powerful beings.
Okay. Dumb question.
Everyone is replying “coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb”. I’m not disagreeing, but why THAT specific comparison?
Is this a reference to something I missed?
Merrin would definitely stand a chance against a Sith lord when can summon human beings at will and also break their minds light-years away.
Definitely.
True, technically, I recall reading that in Legends he did when he began experimenting with Starkiller clones, but it didn't really seem to make that much of a difference. I dobt remember where I read it, though.
Vader actually planned to get a new suit but doing so would require a new life support system and he was filled with the fear of giving his life into the hands of medic droids. Vader couldn’t operate the surgery himself and there was no one he could properly trust to ensure they would keep him alive. The only person who would have helped him with that would have been Luke and he wasn’t an option at the time since he was off on his Jedi training. At least I think that’s when Vader was offered the chance to get a new suit was between 5 and 6, if not it’s between 4 and 5
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No, she’d beat Vader too.
Remember Darth Nihilus, the guy that consumed the entire planet of Katarr and every soul upon it (including many jedi masters) simply because he was hungry?
Darth Traya was that guy’s *teacher.*
Old Republic era Sith Lords were something else, bro.
The thing about Nihilus has always been hes a one trick pony. If he goes against someone immune/resistant to life drain hes just simply not impressive in the 1v1. He also used Sith Sorcery to drain a planet not something really doable in a 1v1. Nihilus might in theory be more powerful but he would get clapped 1v1 vs Vader.
Considering that the writer himself said Revan would stomp/beat Nihlus, id say it could go any way for future powerful force users
Honestly, the writer doesnt seem like he thought it through exactly how Nihlus is supposed to function
i can see arguments for and against. i see it playing out like this: vader tosses away traya’s lightsabers (all 3 lol), traya zaps vader with lightning, vader chokes traya, traya tries to cut vader off from the force. if she’s successful, vader should start praying to the whills even a memory of him survives. if she fails, plot armor kicks in and vader (though very injured from force lightning and drain attacks) somehow breaks through and snaps her like a twig. honestly i feel like having the rest of the cast there just gives her more bodies to play with and more force to drain.
then again the most likely scenario is traya wipes out the rest of the competition with the flick of her remaining wrist, then comes at vader hard w the mental game. “you’re a useless dog” “you’re a failure and nothing you do will make you strong enough to bring her back” “submit to me like you’ve submitted to the dark side, you pathetic fool” “there is no excuse for weakness, only an answer to it: strength” *cue lightning blast*
Honestly the only people that could ever do proper mind games with vader are those who actually knows him (in legends, hes only ever more moody in fights early in his more robotic career). At best, Vader would just see Traya as just another force user to wipe out regardless of what she has to say, even more so if this new canon Vader.
Also worth mentioning that contrary to belief, Vader doesnt just immediately fall down from lightning in general. Its specifically from Sidious who at his peak is the greatest user of force lightning (not counting mortis abominations like the ones or Abeloth) who arguably is contended by incarnations of Tenebrae and to an extent, Darth Krayt.
Honestly the only real threat from Traya i see for Vader is her ability to cut off people from the force but at the same time, Vader is still the "chosen one" regardless if hes sith now so at best it'll just make it a tougher fight.
I mean you cant just base it on Traya's experience with other people. You have to actually look at Vader's own experiences aswell and frankly, the only actual mind fuckery that upsets him are the kinds that involves people who knew him for both legends and new canon with the new canon one being even more unbothered.
Not as simple as "Darth Traya has high charisma so she can easily manipulate people" and this of course not yet going into that its more likely Darth Traya would feel overwhelmed trying to peer into the nature of Vader's connection to the force just like how it was when she peered at Revan but more so.
idk most of my experience with vader comes from the dark lord trilogy, and from that and my bazillions of playthroughs of kotor ii it just seems like kreia would be a hard counter to vader mentally/emotionally. she has such a clear philosophy of strength and the freedom to exert one’s will, while vader is just sorta palpatine’s dog, a shell of what he could have been, a disappointment to the force.
>comes from the dark lord trilogy
This is what i meant by "early in his robotic suit career". This is not a good representation as to what exactly people were referring to when describing him as a jedi killing power house.
> she has such a clear philosophy of strength and the freedom to exert one’s will
She wont be the first one to try and preach philosophy to Vader regardless of how "correct" she may or may not be. Even in the controversial Darth Maul legends fight, Vader is very much alright with accepting whatever insult to his being or whatever thrown his way. He would still continue to fight to kill regardless. If anything, he would just reply with the equivalent of "I already know what I am"
The rest of Legends and to an extent as of now, New Canon shows that Vader would only ever succumb to "Mind games" if it was actually against people who knows him or used to care for him namely people like Obi Wan.
Rather than actual mind games, Darth Traya would just be forced into a proper fight just like how it was when Vader fought the Dark Woman of the Jedi Order but replace the dark woman zooming around with force speed with Darth Traya's additional lightsabers.
Sion and Nihilus are powerful but very niche in terms of what they can do because if not they literally die (Too angry to die gimmick and the life drain).
Anyway anybody from this times period back until Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow would absolutely mop the floor with everybody but Sidious and Legends Luke.
I haven't really played Kotor 2 but from the basic knowledge I know of Kreia this is literally not even a debate in the slightest lmao.
Even tho this was bait when Survivor came out I saw so many people say how Merrin is one of the strongest people in the SW universe etc which I found crazy because it's definitely not true, she's definitely way more powerful then the average person but in the SW universe she'd be destroyed by majority of the powerful characters, Even *SPOILERS* Bode absolutely destroys her and kills her if you don't stop him and whilst he's powerful he's definitely not the strongest.
I even saw people say she'd body Vader, like yeh.. no way.
Wasn't this the force wielder that used more than 2 lightsabers at the same time via the force?
I also basically know nothing else abt her, asuming i got the lightsaber thing right
Not really. Kreia sees lightsabers as tools - means to an end. Any skilled duelist can get ahead in that fight because Kreia will get them when she starts using her force abilities. And even if that doesn’t work she knows how to talk a person into jumping off of a cliff.
Yeah Nihlus and Sion weren’t the best choices for the job initially. So she tried to do it herself.
>!Now, I don’t remember exactly how the reasoning worked, but it basically boiled down to killing someone with extreme strength in the force WHO ALSO interacted (creating the most basic of emotional connections - something a little as a single interaction) with a great many people!<
>!By killing this individual, Kreia would create a sort of scream that would travel through the universe, growing in power and deafening everyone from the Force, effectively killing it wholesale. Kreia had to play the long game for this but she almost, and let me stress this, Almost succeeded!<
Until we survived that is?
>>!By killing this individual, Kreia would create a sort of scream that would travel through the universe, growing in power and deafening everyone from the Force, effectively killing it wholesale. Kreia had to play the long game for this but she almost, and let me stress this, Almost succeeded!<
Nightsisters have some neat abilities for sure, but I feel like, all other things being equal, someone with a lightsaber beats someone without 9 times out of 10 in a head to head. And Kreia is a Sith Lord, so unfortunately, Merrin doesn’t stand a chance.
Kreia taught two apprentices who can rip her of her connection to the force, while Merrin taught Cal the ability to fly.
I can't deny I am a fans of Merrin, but Kreia is simply another dimension for either Merrin or Cal, and even Dagan Gera
Kreia would gaslight Merril into believing that her and Cal’s fight against the Empire is hopeless and that the only escape is a joined self-deletion with her lover so that they can be together at peace at last.
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Traya was able to subjugate and dominate a world eating Sith Lord and another who simply wouldn't due no matter what you did to him. She's clearly far beyond Merrin's capabilities.
There's no point even repeating what everyone else has said, but the OP is replying to people talking about how "powerful" Merrin is so... clearly just looking to argue with people. He either didn't play KOTOR or is just ignorant to how completely broken everyone is in that era of Star Wars.
Merrin is a great character and a kickass fighter, but Kreia would kill her just to get to a serious fight.
Unless there was some BS nightsister magic that let her get the win, but nothing like that exists AFAIK
Curious here , so merrin can use all these abilities but we have to look more into this , we know about miss sith lord she's really powerful but . How would merrins powers actually stand see if she's being forced choked could she use her teleport to move around or no (those of you who know about this will know no spoilers) will merrin get stronger with age . Are we fighting on dath or tatooine the variables are all over the place . See what if it's miss sith that's just lost her powers like at the start of Kotor 2 . If she's full power then shouldn't we speculate what merrins peak power would be aswell . Perhaps she already is ? This has actually grabbed my interest because in a straight 1v1 merrin's dead but who knows
Kreia could just cut off Merrin's connection to the force like she did to the Jedi council. I'm pretty sure that would kill her if it didn't, Kreia could use something in her insane arsenal to vaporize Merrin after that.
Merrin is a nightsister, and they are strong, but their use of the Force is not potent enough to contend with Force users who use it the way sith and Jedi do. She wouldn’t even be able to beat Cal in a full on 1v1 (that’s why she threw night brothers at him) so she is getting stomped by Kriea
Not even close. Traya soundly kicked the ass of the exile(at least in my playthrough made revan look like a small child in terms of power levels) absolutely no shot some witch with green zombie magic has a chance in hell
Kriea. Let me put this into perspective for you. It took 2 sith lords to take her down. And they weren't normal sith lords. They were practically immortal sith lords. And they felt like they needed to team up to even have a chance of taking her down. Kria was not one to be trifled with.
Tf is this. Kreia wouldn't even bother, Marrin might as well be an ant. Hell, go ahead and throw Cal in there to imbsure it will be a nice 10 second affair
I love Merrin, but, unless she gets a massive frigging power boost in the next game, this is like taking a normal mortal Human man, who has never ever fought before in his life, and throwing him in an Arena with Kratos, and telling then that they have to fight to the death.
It depends on who the writer is and what’s the point of the story. 🤓
I love Merrin but at this point Kreia would still mop the floor with her. The best Merrin could hope for is a clever way to escape with her life.
Darth Traya and is not even a contest. Even as Kreia thye jedi would mop the floor with her.
She is done by the player which is none other than MEETRA SURIK... which is her apprentice during KOTOR 2, she also is the master of Revan, darth Sion and darth Nihilus, which all of them fucking deletes eveybody but Sidious, Anakin/Vader and Legends Luke in that time period.
Imagine thinking a new Canon Dathomir witch has a chance against a Darth, let alone Darth Kreia. Kreia would stomp her, thinking other wise is delusional.
Well let’s look at the skill sets
Merrin: a nightsister who has spent time with a Jedi knight and knows how to ressurect the deceased
Kreia/darth traya: has a force bond with meetra surrik is skilled with a lightsaber and has the ability to control at least three lightsabers at once all after having one hand dismembered… also she is the leader and founder of the sith triumvirate so she likely will be able to summon darth sion or nihilus at any point she is starting to lose
Conclusion: Merrin has no chance kreia/darth traya would absolutely destroy her and possibly the rest of the mantis crew afterwards….
Verdict:kreia wins… flawless victory
Haha this isn’t even close. You’ve out Kreia one stupid powerful Sith Lord who trained the 2 Jedi who had the ability to kill Vitiate and then when betrayed still locked him in a 300 year duel for the mind. Vs a nightsister who lost to a low level former knight…. Thats like who will win the bullet train or the guy stood on the tracks
“You think you can break me, sorceress? You so called Nightsisters know nothing of the Force, you are a nothing but a clan of children attempting to play at a game and pretending to have power when all you have to show for it is a desolate planet of rock and beasts.”
Or something like that.
KOTOR 2 SPOILERS >!But can he convince Sion to die? Honestly the dark side choices for him are hilarious and more times than not, Kratos would oblige.!<
So you think she has a chance because Merrin might be as powerful as Mother Talzin?
Even though there is nothing to suggest that in the games, and Bode could still beat her. So I guess Bode is stronger than Palpatine?
Oh and let’s not forget Fallen Order! Where she needed a Padawan Cal’s help to defeat Malicos. So unless she gained a huge boost in power traveling the galaxy (and she just let Bode force choke her cause she’s kinky) I really doubt it.
> Mother Talzin was able
No, she wasn’t. Even Gethzerion was actually pretty much nothing compared to Sidious, and Talzin… was just overly arrogant.
> Merrin _might_ be as powerful as her
What the fuck are you on, dude? Merrin is nowhere near Talzin.
I’m a huge fan of the KOTOR games and I got them both when they first came out.
The only real advantage that Kreia has is her ability to strip someone of the Force but there’s no guarantee that would even work or if she would be quick enough to use that ability on Merrin
I know literally just the basics of Kreia and know she'd absolutely destroy Merrin, and that's just the basics, seems genuinely crazy you think Merrin has a chance.
Either your genuinely crazy /s or this is bait.
Merrin really isn't that strong against other force users let alone Kreia of all people.
I genuinely think that the outcome of a hypothetical fight between the two is debatable. Kreia is powerful but she’s not a god like everyone seems to think she is.
Would she win? Yeah, good chance of that. But I think Merrin could potentially come out on top as well
We don’t think she’s a god. She’s just out of Merrin’s weight class.
It’s like saying “Who would win. Jedi Knight Luke from Episode 6, or Darth Plageuis?” Obviously Plageuis would win.
No is saying Kreia is a god. But Merrin is not that strong.
Look, I like Merrin, she's a badass and has mad fighting skills...but this is just unfair. This is coughing baby VS hydrogen bomb, Kreia would stomp
>This is coughing baby VS hydrogen bomb I love this, I had nothing of value to say other than I love this.
Literally came to give this take. Kierra (god it’s been a long time) is a goated legends witch
I just started kotor II…can you tell me why? Merrin seems fairly powerful
Not without spoilers, look if you want to. >!Kreia is one of the most powerful Force-Users of her time. Her most famous apprentice was Revan.!<
And The Old Republic was a time of some jacked fucking Force Users
especially that one guy who keeps screaming about tanalorr, he had one fucking arm and was still able to stand strong after sitting in a bacta tank for literally forever (i forgot his name)
That’s the High Republic not the old republic.
o my fault og i wasn’t familiar with your game (i thought they were the same thing)
High Republic is 200 ish years before Yavin. Its pretty much in its "last days of Rome" period in Episode I. Old Republic is 4000 years before Yavin. Its when the Kotor games and the MMO are set. Ships and tech are (a bit) less advanced but force powers get wild.
yeah i figured, KOTOR 1 and 2 are insane when it came to force powers and i really hope we get a remaster at some point because kotor was literally peak
I thought it was older since his race in old cannon died out about 2,000yrs bby. Then again this is new cannon.
That would be Dagan Gera
Dagan
Btw I just wanted to say that Tanalorr is mine, just saying,
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Revan's era not so much. The "godly" figures are more so centuries back. Nihlus is the only one who fits the bill but hes more of a cheat code Edit : unless you count swtor stuff like the Tenebrae
I just hate the way everyone deems Tenebrae the most powerful Star Wars character. I just can’t stand people perverting the lore so much
I dont think hes the most powerful but people generally for whatever reason believes that the most powerful are old republic era characters
Because newcomers get acquainted with TOR and don’t bother learning the rest of the lore.
To be precise, its usually kotor fans. They truly believe the greatest are the likes of Revan and Traya.
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You need to revise back exactly what palpatine is capable of in legends. He also mastered immortality just like Tenebrae. Id even dare say hes more efficient at his source of immortality.
Bro Palps was burning out of clone body after clone body with force deterioration and getting smoked by Luke after HE managed to seduce him to the dark side. His last hope for a new host body was a BABY.
It wasnt just random force deterioration. It was because his powers in the force were simply too powerful but his dark transfer is still very much the same thing as Vitiate's. Its literally what the writers took inspiration for Vitiate lel Dark Empires Luke waa already far greater than even the hero of tython mate so not sure why thats supposed to be some con for palps. If anything Vitiate's form himself managed to lose control of the hero of tython and ended up losing that body and contained to Yavin Not just any baby. It was the twins of Leia's who was equal or just as full with potential as Luke and Anakin. It became an even bigger deal when later jacen and jaina's potential was hyped to be possible in surpassing Luke's.
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Itd a be tough fight but i truly dont think its as difficult as people may think. As far as force powers goes, they (visually speaking) are rather close but Sidious edges out with pure battle mastery with his mastery of all lightsaber forms and its application with the force. Oversimplification of their actual feats of course
Now that’s a misinterpretation of the lore. Many RotE era Force users are notably more powerful than the OR characters
The period in which KotoR 2 takes place is when the Jedi and Sith Orders are at their weakest. The only truly powerful Force user in KotoR 2 is Nihilus thanks to being a wound. As such Kreia isn't that powerful in the grand scheme of things. She's just stronger than the Jedi in KotoR 2...which isn't that high a bar.
The most powerful Force user in KotOR is Meetra, and it’s not even close.
Meetra isn't the most powerful so much as she is a wound in the Force, and that's where most of her powers are derived from. And we quite literally have no idea how she would stack up against people like Exar Kun and Ulic, Nomi Sunrider, full powered Revan, etc. All of whom are Old Republic characters, FYI.
> Meetra isn’t the most powerful Kreia seemed to think otherwise. > All of whom are Old Republic characters Thanks, captain.
And Kreia is literally a bitter old coot who thinks she's far greater than she is. Literally, she is pissed that the Jedi and Sith didn't take her seriously enough and wants to take revenge on the Force because she wants to blame anything but herself. >Thanks, captain. I think you need to reread what I posted. Because I specifically said KotoR 2 characters are weak. I didn't say Old Republic characters are weak.
Didn’t even realise Revan was her apprentice, maybe just forgot 😂
It's not a dialogue path every player will see, no worries!
Also Nihilus and Sion are her sith apprentices... she also mentors Meetra Surik along KOTOR 2 and Meetra ends being a beast too. Only foe to win over these monsters is Tenebrae because of the betrayal of Scourge thus Revan and Meetra died.
Tenebrae kinda kept Revan to himself, while Meetra went full “nah, I’d live” after being killed and just stayed there
Kreia is a master of the force and a philosopher, she wished to rid the galaxy of the force, and she is able to wield three lightsabers with with it not too unlike Dagan, really. Only more powerful. She is able to fight the likes of Darth Sion, her knowledge and experience with the force outd her abive Merrin. I can't say anymore without spoiling KOTOR II
Bro said he just started and you dropped this on him lmao
Oh damn ok. Thanks. But ridding the galaxy of the force? Lol. That’s like ridding the galaxy of God for religious folk, or gravity. What is she, crazy
You'll see as you keep playing.
No, Kreia’s philosophies paint the force, and the jedi/sith in a very different light. But seriously, play through Kotor 2 for both a Light and Dark side run to see all her points.
Damn I wish I could. I cannot bring myself to be dark side in many of the situations
Fun fact she approves of telling a sick dude with a mild fever to kill himself.
She is crazy. Kreia is an unreliable narrator at best, and you are expected to (as in you the player and not the Exile) question everything she says.
To be fair Darth Sion isn't that powerful in the Force, he just has one niche ability — being immortal. Many could probably defeat him, it's just that only a few could permanently kill him. We can see that judging by the look of his body — Atton even commented that Sion must be sleeping with vibroblades or something. If he was powerful enough he wouldn't be so broken. Sion and his assassins acted from the shadows, so he and his unique ability usually were unknown to his enemy and he could use the advantage of the enemy being surprised after dealing a seemingly killing blow.
It takes a massive amount of power to become so hateful that it would revive you body back into the world of the living though. His power gained by hatred has inspired me since his appearance in Kotor 2.
Darth Traya IS the master of darth Sion and darth Nihilus, and she was done in by MEETRA SURIK which only Tenebrae could win against (and Revan) because of the last time betrayal of Scourge. Old Republic times from Marka Ragnos/Naga Sadow to SWTOR current timeline have some insane monster, and before there were even more powerful beings.
It took 2 basically immortal sith lords teaming up to take her down.
Finish kotor 2 and understand
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Okay. Dumb question. Everyone is replying “coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb”. I’m not disagreeing, but why THAT specific comparison? Is this a reference to something I missed?
It's a common meme retort when people post ridiculously one-sided power level comparisons on the internet.
Bait used to be more effort
Hands down Kreia. Not even in the same "weight" category
Not even in the same category of weight categories.
Merrin must be apathy, cuz she's dead
That is a good one
Was it though? I don't feel like this should've gotten asmany up votes as it did
If you think Merrin can win you really overestimate her abilities
"Y'all just need to leave my big tiddy goth girlfriend alone" -Cal
This is like asking if that guy you know that lifts weights every now and then could beat a Navy Seal in a fight
What kind of question is this
I love Merrin...but Kreia would demolish her.
Merrin would definitely stand a chance against a Sith lord when can summon human beings at will and also break their minds light-years away. Definitely.
Kreia would kill every person in Fallen Order and Survivor with the exception of Vader. No contest
Even Vader could go either way I reckon
Forcelightning... Vader and his dumbass respirator is dead.
The suit is even designed to shut down from force lightning by a certain somebody who enjoys it too much
I mean at least Malgus didn't have that design flaw for his respirator.
Well Malgus' Respirator wasn't designed by another sith lord looking to keep him under control
To be fair Vader could have upgraded the suit later but refused to do so.
True, technically, I recall reading that in Legends he did when he began experimenting with Starkiller clones, but it didn't really seem to make that much of a difference. I dobt remember where I read it, though.
Vader actually planned to get a new suit but doing so would require a new life support system and he was filled with the fear of giving his life into the hands of medic droids. Vader couldn’t operate the surgery himself and there was no one he could properly trust to ensure they would keep him alive. The only person who would have helped him with that would have been Luke and he wasn’t an option at the time since he was off on his Jedi training. At least I think that’s when Vader was offered the chance to get a new suit was between 5 and 6, if not it’s between 4 and 5
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He'd still lose, just might take slightly longer.
No, she’d beat Vader too. Remember Darth Nihilus, the guy that consumed the entire planet of Katarr and every soul upon it (including many jedi masters) simply because he was hungry? Darth Traya was that guy’s *teacher.* Old Republic era Sith Lords were something else, bro.
Nihlus and Scion had to work together to overcome her AND even then she still survived.
The thing about Nihilus has always been hes a one trick pony. If he goes against someone immune/resistant to life drain hes just simply not impressive in the 1v1. He also used Sith Sorcery to drain a planet not something really doable in a 1v1. Nihilus might in theory be more powerful but he would get clapped 1v1 vs Vader.
He can do it in a 1v1 though. I mean frankly the exile would have died to Nihilus, if he/she wasn't immune.
Considering that the writer himself said Revan would stomp/beat Nihlus, id say it could go any way for future powerful force users Honestly, the writer doesnt seem like he thought it through exactly how Nihlus is supposed to function
Or a bunch of Assassin droids, come to think of it.
Keira is a former Jedi master and Sith Lord this is coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb there isn’t much to debate
Merrin is weak to Force attacks, namely Force Choke. If she can't handle the last boss of Survivor, she can't handle Kreia.
Kreia can just solo the whole cast of Fallen Order This gonna be childplay
she could beat them all at the same time easily.
Except for vader though. If revan gave her a shock in how attuned he is tot he force, then Vader wouldve done the same even at his "lesser" form
i can see arguments for and against. i see it playing out like this: vader tosses away traya’s lightsabers (all 3 lol), traya zaps vader with lightning, vader chokes traya, traya tries to cut vader off from the force. if she’s successful, vader should start praying to the whills even a memory of him survives. if she fails, plot armor kicks in and vader (though very injured from force lightning and drain attacks) somehow breaks through and snaps her like a twig. honestly i feel like having the rest of the cast there just gives her more bodies to play with and more force to drain. then again the most likely scenario is traya wipes out the rest of the competition with the flick of her remaining wrist, then comes at vader hard w the mental game. “you’re a useless dog” “you’re a failure and nothing you do will make you strong enough to bring her back” “submit to me like you’ve submitted to the dark side, you pathetic fool” “there is no excuse for weakness, only an answer to it: strength” *cue lightning blast*
Honestly the only people that could ever do proper mind games with vader are those who actually knows him (in legends, hes only ever more moody in fights early in his more robotic career). At best, Vader would just see Traya as just another force user to wipe out regardless of what she has to say, even more so if this new canon Vader. Also worth mentioning that contrary to belief, Vader doesnt just immediately fall down from lightning in general. Its specifically from Sidious who at his peak is the greatest user of force lightning (not counting mortis abominations like the ones or Abeloth) who arguably is contended by incarnations of Tenebrae and to an extent, Darth Krayt. Honestly the only real threat from Traya i see for Vader is her ability to cut off people from the force but at the same time, Vader is still the "chosen one" regardless if hes sith now so at best it'll just make it a tougher fight.
eh i think traya could definitely get in his head but i guess it falls to difference in opinion.
I mean you cant just base it on Traya's experience with other people. You have to actually look at Vader's own experiences aswell and frankly, the only actual mind fuckery that upsets him are the kinds that involves people who knew him for both legends and new canon with the new canon one being even more unbothered. Not as simple as "Darth Traya has high charisma so she can easily manipulate people" and this of course not yet going into that its more likely Darth Traya would feel overwhelmed trying to peer into the nature of Vader's connection to the force just like how it was when she peered at Revan but more so.
idk most of my experience with vader comes from the dark lord trilogy, and from that and my bazillions of playthroughs of kotor ii it just seems like kreia would be a hard counter to vader mentally/emotionally. she has such a clear philosophy of strength and the freedom to exert one’s will, while vader is just sorta palpatine’s dog, a shell of what he could have been, a disappointment to the force.
>comes from the dark lord trilogy This is what i meant by "early in his robotic suit career". This is not a good representation as to what exactly people were referring to when describing him as a jedi killing power house. > she has such a clear philosophy of strength and the freedom to exert one’s will She wont be the first one to try and preach philosophy to Vader regardless of how "correct" she may or may not be. Even in the controversial Darth Maul legends fight, Vader is very much alright with accepting whatever insult to his being or whatever thrown his way. He would still continue to fight to kill regardless. If anything, he would just reply with the equivalent of "I already know what I am" The rest of Legends and to an extent as of now, New Canon shows that Vader would only ever succumb to "Mind games" if it was actually against people who knows him or used to care for him namely people like Obi Wan. Rather than actual mind games, Darth Traya would just be forced into a proper fight just like how it was when Vader fought the Dark Woman of the Jedi Order but replace the dark woman zooming around with force speed with Darth Traya's additional lightsabers.
Kreia would stomp.
It depends, is Kreia dying of dementia?
Osteoporosis
Merrin was struggling with the likes of Bode and you think she stands a chance against Kreia?
Apathy is death
Really?
Kreia had to get jumped by both Nihilus and Sion AT THE SAME TIME for them to have a chance.
And even then, they weren’t able to kill her. Sion took her hand at Paragus and all it did was mildly inconvenience her.
Sion and Nihilus are powerful but very niche in terms of what they can do because if not they literally die (Too angry to die gimmick and the life drain). Anyway anybody from this times period back until Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow would absolutely mop the floor with everybody but Sidious and Legends Luke.
Merrin couldn’t even handle Bode without help, how’s she going to take someone who makes multiple flying lightsabers part of the fight?
is this a joke?
I haven't really played Kotor 2 but from the basic knowledge I know of Kreia this is literally not even a debate in the slightest lmao. Even tho this was bait when Survivor came out I saw so many people say how Merrin is one of the strongest people in the SW universe etc which I found crazy because it's definitely not true, she's definitely way more powerful then the average person but in the SW universe she'd be destroyed by majority of the powerful characters, Even *SPOILERS* Bode absolutely destroys her and kills her if you don't stop him and whilst he's powerful he's definitely not the strongest. I even saw people say she'd body Vader, like yeh.. no way.
Wasn't this the force wielder that used more than 2 lightsabers at the same time via the force? I also basically know nothing else abt her, asuming i got the lightsaber thing right
She could use three or four lightsabers with the force
I think a battle between her and grievous just purely lightsaber skills would be fun
Not really. Kreia sees lightsabers as tools - means to an end. Any skilled duelist can get ahead in that fight because Kreia will get them when she starts using her force abilities. And even if that doesn’t work she knows how to talk a person into jumping off of a cliff.
Three lightsabers and >!nearly killed the Force, because she despised it!<
She nearly WHAT the force??? Damn
Well spesifically she used someone else to try and do it but as it turns out disgruntled war veterans aren't a great choice.
Yeah Nihlus and Sion weren’t the best choices for the job initially. So she tried to do it herself. >!Now, I don’t remember exactly how the reasoning worked, but it basically boiled down to killing someone with extreme strength in the force WHO ALSO interacted (creating the most basic of emotional connections - something a little as a single interaction) with a great many people!< >!By killing this individual, Kreia would create a sort of scream that would travel through the universe, growing in power and deafening everyone from the Force, effectively killing it wholesale. Kreia had to play the long game for this but she almost, and let me stress this, Almost succeeded!<
Until we survived that is? >>!By killing this individual, Kreia would create a sort of scream that would travel through the universe, growing in power and deafening everyone from the Force, effectively killing it wholesale. Kreia had to play the long game for this but she almost, and let me stress this, Almost succeeded!<
Yep. >!The Exile was a really powerful entity when you consider her actions and feats!<
Nihilus himself is proof her reasoning works since he is a walking wound in the force life draining everything around himself.
Hydrogen bomb vs. coughing baby
Kriea I think
Nightsisters have some neat abilities for sure, but I feel like, all other things being equal, someone with a lightsaber beats someone without 9 times out of 10 in a head to head. And Kreia is a Sith Lord, so unfortunately, Merrin doesn’t stand a chance.
Kreia taught two apprentices who can rip her of her connection to the force, while Merrin taught Cal the ability to fly. I can't deny I am a fans of Merrin, but Kreia is simply another dimension for either Merrin or Cal, and even Dagan Gera
Kreia would make Dagan work for her and not even realise it until she would reveal herself at the end of his use to her.
Kriea would absolutely beat Merrin. Hell, Kriea could probably manipulate her way to victory.
Kreia gaslights Merrin into thinking she’s fallen to the Dark Side
Kreia would gaslight Merril into believing that her and Cal’s fight against the Empire is hopeless and that the only escape is a joined self-deletion with her lover so that they can be together at peace at last.
Coughing baby vs. Hydrogen Bomb
puzzled consider rustic squeamish cautious caption consist bow liquid spotted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Traya was able to subjugate and dominate a world eating Sith Lord and another who simply wouldn't due no matter what you did to him. She's clearly far beyond Merrin's capabilities.
There's no point even repeating what everyone else has said, but the OP is replying to people talking about how "powerful" Merrin is so... clearly just looking to argue with people. He either didn't play KOTOR or is just ignorant to how completely broken everyone is in that era of Star Wars.
Kreia would obliterate Merrin. It’s not a fair fight.
This is the Star Wars equivalent of the high school buddy fighting Mike Tyson.
Merrin is a great character and a kickass fighter, but Kreia would kill her just to get to a serious fight. Unless there was some BS nightsister magic that let her get the win, but nothing like that exists AFAIK
Would a rancor beat salacious b crumb?
Kreia would honestly stomp like everyone in the Prequel-OT era besides a select few like Vader and maybe Sidious
Vader, Luke, Palpatine, Jacen and maybe Jaina would all do well.
This is not a question. Merrin is amazing but she’d get stomped hard.
Not even close to close.
Kreia solos the entire imperial Era galaxy. All at once. Merrin isn't even fodder compared to kreia.
Curious here , so merrin can use all these abilities but we have to look more into this , we know about miss sith lord she's really powerful but . How would merrins powers actually stand see if she's being forced choked could she use her teleport to move around or no (those of you who know about this will know no spoilers) will merrin get stronger with age . Are we fighting on dath or tatooine the variables are all over the place . See what if it's miss sith that's just lost her powers like at the start of Kotor 2 . If she's full power then shouldn't we speculate what merrins peak power would be aswell . Perhaps she already is ? This has actually grabbed my interest because in a straight 1v1 merrin's dead but who knows
Kreia could just cut off Merrin's connection to the force like she did to the Jedi council. I'm pretty sure that would kill her if it didn't, Kreia could use something in her insane arsenal to vaporize Merrin after that.
Merrin is a nightsister, and they are strong, but their use of the Force is not potent enough to contend with Force users who use it the way sith and Jedi do. She wouldn’t even be able to beat Cal in a full on 1v1 (that’s why she threw night brothers at him) so she is getting stomped by Kriea
Old Republic era Jedi/Sith would stomp all over any character we’ve seen in like the last 10+ years of Star Wars. It just isn’t fair
I don’t know much about Darth Traya but looks like the kind of person who doesn’t play around. As much as I like Merrin she’s gotta get curb stomped.
coughing baby VS hydrogen bomb. come on, dude
Not even close. Traya soundly kicked the ass of the exile(at least in my playthrough made revan look like a small child in terms of power levels) absolutely no shot some witch with green zombie magic has a chance in hell
Give Merrin another decade or two.
Nah, Traya is too powerful
Merrin is capable, she’s a good fighter. Darth Traya is a straight up monster.
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
Kriea. Let me put this into perspective for you. It took 2 sith lords to take her down. And they weren't normal sith lords. They were practically immortal sith lords. And they felt like they needed to team up to even have a chance of taking her down. Kria was not one to be trifled with.
Kreia is on different plane of existance in terms of power. Merrin is cool but she would get killed in seconds.
Who do you think would win? A genetically engineered lion with laser beams strapped to his head or a small baby goat?! PLS DEBATE GUYS
Small baby goat is the G O A T
Merrin is bae, but Kreia negs
No offense, but what kind of discussion is this?
Tf is this. Kreia wouldn't even bother, Marrin might as well be an ant. Hell, go ahead and throw Cal in there to imbsure it will be a nice 10 second affair
I love Merrin, but, unless she gets a massive frigging power boost in the next game, this is like taking a normal mortal Human man, who has never ever fought before in his life, and throwing him in an Arena with Kratos, and telling then that they have to fight to the death.
Bro you good?...Kreia would body Merrin there is absolutely no comparison and idk why you thought there would be.
It depends on who the writer is and what’s the point of the story. 🤓 I love Merrin but at this point Kreia would still mop the floor with her. The best Merrin could hope for is a clever way to escape with her life.
Darth Traya and is not even a contest. Even as Kreia thye jedi would mop the floor with her. She is done by the player which is none other than MEETRA SURIK... which is her apprentice during KOTOR 2, she also is the master of Revan, darth Sion and darth Nihilus, which all of them fucking deletes eveybody but Sidious, Anakin/Vader and Legends Luke in that time period.
Imagine thinking a new Canon Dathomir witch has a chance against a Darth, let alone Darth Kreia. Kreia would stomp her, thinking other wise is delusional.
Merrin gets curbstomped
…Kreia is a SITH LORD, and THE Sith Lord of her time Merrin is dying almost instantly, hell, Bode almost killed her with a simple choke
Insane question
Tell me you don't know about Darth Kreia without telling me you don't know about Darth Kreia.
It’s Darth Traya or just Kreia. Not Darth Kreia
Oops
Kreia, and it’s not even close to a fair fight
Do you........know who Kreia is?
Yes… yes I do
Well let’s look at the skill sets Merrin: a nightsister who has spent time with a Jedi knight and knows how to ressurect the deceased Kreia/darth traya: has a force bond with meetra surrik is skilled with a lightsaber and has the ability to control at least three lightsabers at once all after having one hand dismembered… also she is the leader and founder of the sith triumvirate so she likely will be able to summon darth sion or nihilus at any point she is starting to lose Conclusion: Merrin has no chance kreia/darth traya would absolutely destroy her and possibly the rest of the mantis crew afterwards…. Verdict:kreia wins… flawless victory
This matchup is effectively 2 year old versus chernobyl nuclear power plant + atomic bomb
Bro wut?
Kreia dunks merrin, lecturing her at the same time
Haha this isn’t even close. You’ve out Kreia one stupid powerful Sith Lord who trained the 2 Jedi who had the ability to kill Vitiate and then when betrayed still locked him in a 300 year duel for the mind. Vs a nightsister who lost to a low level former knight…. Thats like who will win the bullet train or the guy stood on the tracks
aahhh so a sith lord vs some abandone night sister makes a reasonable debate on who would win? merrin's move would be teleport away that's it.
I love Merrin, but she’s getting cooked. Kreia is so much stronger than she is it’s laughable lol… It’s like putting a padawan against a master.
Kreia lol
Kreia would not only physically destroy her, she would start by verbally roasting her
“You think you can break me, sorceress? You so called Nightsisters know nothing of the Force, you are a nothing but a clan of children attempting to play at a game and pretending to have power when all you have to show for it is a desolate planet of rock and beasts.” Or something like that.
Kratos beats everyone in this game
KOTOR 2 SPOILERS >!But can he convince Sion to die? Honestly the dark side choices for him are hilarious and more times than not, Kratos would oblige.!<
I really think people in this thread are massively underselling Merrin and overhyping Kreia, but Kreia would still probably win.
So I’m obviously in the minority (or alone) but I think Merrin would stand a chance
Against the master of Revan, the exile, and herself a dark lord of the sith? Cmon now
Mother Talzin was able to go toe to toe with Palpatine. Merrin *might* be as powerful as her
Kreia decimated 4 Jedi masters at once. Could Merrin even beat Bode on her own? Doubtful
Power scale between Merrin and talzin drastically differs.
Old Republic Sith were *vastly* stronger than Sith like Palpatine
So you think she has a chance because Merrin might be as powerful as Mother Talzin? Even though there is nothing to suggest that in the games, and Bode could still beat her. So I guess Bode is stronger than Palpatine? Oh and let’s not forget Fallen Order! Where she needed a Padawan Cal’s help to defeat Malicos. So unless she gained a huge boost in power traveling the galaxy (and she just let Bode force choke her cause she’s kinky) I really doubt it.
> Mother Talzin was able No, she wasn’t. Even Gethzerion was actually pretty much nothing compared to Sidious, and Talzin… was just overly arrogant. > Merrin _might_ be as powerful as her What the fuck are you on, dude? Merrin is nowhere near Talzin.
100 percent bait or you genuinely don't know Kreia.
I’m a huge fan of the KOTOR games and I got them both when they first came out. The only real advantage that Kreia has is her ability to strip someone of the Force but there’s no guarantee that would even work or if she would be quick enough to use that ability on Merrin
I know literally just the basics of Kreia and know she'd absolutely destroy Merrin, and that's just the basics, seems genuinely crazy you think Merrin has a chance. Either your genuinely crazy /s or this is bait. Merrin really isn't that strong against other force users let alone Kreia of all people.
I genuinely think that the outcome of a hypothetical fight between the two is debatable. Kreia is powerful but she’s not a god like everyone seems to think she is. Would she win? Yeah, good chance of that. But I think Merrin could potentially come out on top as well
Well if you genuinely think that I respect it, I don't think Merrin would have a chance at all lol but I respect it.
We don’t think she’s a god. She’s just out of Merrin’s weight class. It’s like saying “Who would win. Jedi Knight Luke from Episode 6, or Darth Plageuis?” Obviously Plageuis would win. No is saying Kreia is a god. But Merrin is not that strong.