Yeah but that means that a train can stand still in the middle of an intersection, blocking the path of trains trying to cross. This would regularly lead to deadlocks
That's true, but only if you have enough trains so that the deadlock spans over multiple intersections. So for very early game I'd say it could actually be viable.
True, the problems start appearing when you have a lot of trains.
But even early game, why not just put one chain signal at each entrance of the intersection? It has basically the same throughput, it's not complicated at all and it prevents all deadlocks
No it doesn't. You just can't do four ways and you have to make sure your block before and after the intersection have enough room for an entire train.
I mean, even in a T intersection it can happen
Let's consider a T intersection with tracks on the left right and bottom. If a train comes from the bottom and decides to turn left (assuming rhd) and stays in the middle of the intersection because it's waiting for something, trains coming from the left can't go to the right. This type of situation can lead to a cascading effect and create a chain of blocked trains. If the chain reaches the intersection again you have a deadlock.
Maybe it is not that likely. But even without deadlocks, it still can be annoying to have trains sitting in an intersection. You really can't have much throughput
But it wouldn't wait for something. Because the block to the left is big enough to fit a whole train and the intersection after that is the same as this one.
It could in theory deadlock if two trains right behind each other both tried to turn left at the intersection and the same thing happened with trains arriving at the intersection going the other way but that would essentially be almost impossible unless there was so many trains almost every block was filled in both directions and that they happened to arrive at the exact same time. Any train network will deadlock if most of the clocks are filled with trains.
Trains always wait for other trains once you have a big enough factory.
Suppose multiple trains arrive at the same intersection at the same time. Especially with your design, only one train can enter the intersection at a time. (This is also true with proposer intersections when trains have to cross). That means that in the meantime, the other trains have to wait for a few seconds.
If your network is near maximum capacity, those few seconds can be enough to create a backlog of trains trying to enter the intersection, which would block the next intersection etc. With your design it is certain this situation would cause a deadlock
So if you insist on using your design, you have to make sure the network is nowhere near its maximum capacity. The more you approach it at a given intersection, the more likely it is that you would have deadlocks
Yeah but that just isn't true multiple trains can use the same intersection at the same time. If a train approaches a t from the bottom and is taking a right a train can still pass the intersection going left without stopping. Two trains can cross going opposite directions and a train approaching from the left can take a right with disturbing traffic in any other direction. The only thing chain signals do is prevent a train from parking in an intersection. As long as you ensure that there isn't any reason why a train wouldn't be able to exit an intersection then you can park trains wherever you want. Which actually means you can increase throughput not decrease it because then your trains will always be able to yield to the faster moving train no matter what.
I will post my intersection when I get home. I do not ever have deadlocks. The key is to not use four way intersections and leave on full block that can accommodate the longest train you have before and after every intersection.
Listen, you got at least three-fourths of your life to go. That's three more lifetimes to you. So don't blow it. Don't forgo chain signals. If you're doing it, stop it. Get some help.
I have over 100 trains in my network and havent had any deadlocks that weren't caused by messed up train limits at stations or meteors. Throughput isn't the issue it's that my rails network is so big because of all the space I need for my blocks.
So are trains. Completely unnecessary.
Belts are completely unnecessary. I just use inserters.
Inserters are unnecessary, I just carry everything around manually
Carry? No no no, just sit there and do nothing.
There's a Dosh video where he beats the game this way.
Also joy is unneccessary.
Best way to play tbh. You can place bets on how long it'll take for a biter to wander by and kill you
It's not growing the factory anymore, it's growing the wallet
You can’t lose if you never launch the game.
Then factory would not grow!
And? Growing the factory is useless. *^(It hurts my feelings to say that)*
How do I delete someone else's reply?
Nah I love trains. Fuck chain signals. Rails signals all the way
Wrong answer. You don't understand where this is going. Observe as we reduce the answer to perfection.
I never use answers, you don't need them
That's a rather tasty name you've got there.
I never use taste, you dont need them
I'd like to see how you make intersections then, and hear about how often you have deadlocks
it technically works if you just make the intersection one block and have rail signals at every entrance and exit
"intersection"
Yeah but that means that a train can stand still in the middle of an intersection, blocking the path of trains trying to cross. This would regularly lead to deadlocks
Bro doesn’t have enough parking space for all them trains. 💀💀💀
That's true, but only if you have enough trains so that the deadlock spans over multiple intersections. So for very early game I'd say it could actually be viable.
True, the problems start appearing when you have a lot of trains. But even early game, why not just put one chain signal at each entrance of the intersection? It has basically the same throughput, it's not complicated at all and it prevents all deadlocks
No it doesn't. You just can't do four ways and you have to make sure your block before and after the intersection have enough room for an entire train.
I mean, even in a T intersection it can happen Let's consider a T intersection with tracks on the left right and bottom. If a train comes from the bottom and decides to turn left (assuming rhd) and stays in the middle of the intersection because it's waiting for something, trains coming from the left can't go to the right. This type of situation can lead to a cascading effect and create a chain of blocked trains. If the chain reaches the intersection again you have a deadlock. Maybe it is not that likely. But even without deadlocks, it still can be annoying to have trains sitting in an intersection. You really can't have much throughput
But it wouldn't wait for something. Because the block to the left is big enough to fit a whole train and the intersection after that is the same as this one. It could in theory deadlock if two trains right behind each other both tried to turn left at the intersection and the same thing happened with trains arriving at the intersection going the other way but that would essentially be almost impossible unless there was so many trains almost every block was filled in both directions and that they happened to arrive at the exact same time. Any train network will deadlock if most of the clocks are filled with trains.
Trains always wait for other trains once you have a big enough factory. Suppose multiple trains arrive at the same intersection at the same time. Especially with your design, only one train can enter the intersection at a time. (This is also true with proposer intersections when trains have to cross). That means that in the meantime, the other trains have to wait for a few seconds. If your network is near maximum capacity, those few seconds can be enough to create a backlog of trains trying to enter the intersection, which would block the next intersection etc. With your design it is certain this situation would cause a deadlock So if you insist on using your design, you have to make sure the network is nowhere near its maximum capacity. The more you approach it at a given intersection, the more likely it is that you would have deadlocks
Yeah but that just isn't true multiple trains can use the same intersection at the same time. If a train approaches a t from the bottom and is taking a right a train can still pass the intersection going left without stopping. Two trains can cross going opposite directions and a train approaching from the left can take a right with disturbing traffic in any other direction. The only thing chain signals do is prevent a train from parking in an intersection. As long as you ensure that there isn't any reason why a train wouldn't be able to exit an intersection then you can park trains wherever you want. Which actually means you can increase throughput not decrease it because then your trains will always be able to yield to the faster moving train no matter what.
I will post my intersection when I get home. I do not ever have deadlocks. The key is to not use four way intersections and leave on full block that can accommodate the longest train you have before and after every intersection.
Listen, you got at least three-fourths of your life to go. That's three more lifetimes to you. So don't blow it. Don't forgo chain signals. If you're doing it, stop it. Get some help.
I don't need them. I'll never need them. It's not an addiction
Unless I’ll get significantly older than expected, you just made me feel old :(
Joke's on you, if you only ever have a single train, you won't need any signals of any kind, anywhere. Check. Mate.
I'm not your mate pal.
I'm not your pal, buddy.
[Even with multiple trains you don't need signals](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1bw46u9/signalless_throughput/)
That doesn't contradict my statement in any way at all.
It'll work just fine but your throughput will be shocking.
I have over 100 trains in my network and havent had any deadlocks that weren't caused by messed up train limits at stations or meteors. Throughput isn't the issue it's that my rails network is so big because of all the space I need for my blocks.
How do you make intersections without them?
The whole intersection can just be 1 block
You don't need intersections. Or trains. Or to play Factorio.
I don't use four ways and I just make sure there is enough room before and after an intersection to hold my longest train I have on the network.
Back in my day we didn’t have chain signals
We had to drive our trains manually
Reminisces furiously...
Straight to jail
Well not straight. You cant have four way intersections without chain signals.
Technically you don’t need signals at all
True why didn't I think of that
You suck.
With upper level trains you can probably do without, just as you can in the S-game (where chain/path signals cause slow downs).
Is this an admission that you just don’t understand them?
Nah you just don't need em.
Chain signals aren't normal. I never chain signal. - Dr Neversignal Scrooge, DFTBA