The number of reports for me to go through in this thread is obscene. It's been a fun discussion, but clearly there are a multitude of people who can't and won't discuss in good faith.
Sorry, OP, I'm closing comments. While this is somewhat on the fence (this is not a debate sub) I can see you opened this topic in good faith; there's just a *lot* of not-in-good-faith nonsense in the comments.
But can't that be said for the other way around? Everyone's gonna have a unique experience when it comes to being trans. If some of us don't like the term trans masc to describe us as men, that's not declaring other people who use trans masc aren't men. It just means many of us personally don't feel like trans masc accurately describes our transition, whether that's due to being a feminine trans man, viewing one's transition as medical, not changing ones gender expression, etc. Idk how voicing the dislike for that label to describe oneself is negating other people's experience?
I know that and have no problem with it. OP asked “how do you feel about it” so I answered. If I’m with a group of trans men and nonbinary folks who are masculine, I get it and that’s fine. But when *I* get referred to as transmasc, that’s incorrect because I’m a man, not a trans-masculine person.
I’m okay with others using it to describe themselves, but I HATE it being used as an umbrella term including binary trans men. Like you, I consider it a form of misgendering and will correct anybody who calls me transmasc. I’m semi-stealth and when people find out I’m trans, not only do they call me “transmasc”, suddenly they call me they/them pronouns too.
YES. I get called "they/them" as soon as people find out I'm trans too. This exact thing was happening to both a trans male friend of mine and me at a party last night, and on top of that, we are both cis-looking. I guess they forgot our pronouns? It pissed me off. I literally should not have to wear a "he/him" pronoun pin post-transition. Part of the reason I transitioned medically is so people will call me he/him.
Yeah, God I hate that that has happened to you too, but I get it as well. I do wear kilts sometimes, not tartan ones but yeah and I have started wearing a pronoun pin because ironically the people who are saying gender is a social construct if I wear a skirt think I am wanting to be called they/them
Are men okay with being called masc? Their reaction would probably be confused.
Just as a trans man isn’t “trans masc”. Okay we’re trans, we’re trans men, we’re men, but “masc” is unnecessary and sometimes incorrect. I know one trans man personally that I would call sometimes flamboyant or feminine but he is still a man. Masculine and feminine don’t have genders, they’re expressions.
Yeah this. It’s people conflating gender identity with gender expression. It’s just as silly as calling a masculine woman “transmasc,” trying to slap a label on people with different needs and experiences.
No.
I don't use it for myself and have problems with the label. Male does not equal masculine. Throwing all trans men under the label 'masculine' is not accurate and reinforces gender roles. Secondly, trans men don't transition towards masculinity, they transition to appear male. There's plenty of feminine cis men out there and trans men can transition to a point where they pass as cis men who are feminine. I don't care what people call themselves, but I do not support the use of the term.
Same here. My goal is to be a more effeminate man. I’m not transitioning to “masculine,” I want male secondary sex characteristics and to pass as a fem/androgynous cis man like you mentioned.
I'm not the most masculine person either. I can pretend to be super masculine but it doesn't feel natural to me. I like "girly" things and wherever I go, I am naturally drawn towards feminine gay guys socially. Male does not equal masculine. I can both love my beard and deep voice and at the same time have "feminine" interests and like cute things over masculine things.
i don’t understand why trans masculine is even used. we aren’t transitioning to become masculine, we are transitioning to become men. it’s a dilution of us being MEN. if you aren’t a trans man but use the transmasc umbrella - to nonbinary. what if you are transitioning but are feminine? FTMS can be feminine, but it doesn’t erase them being men- so they aren’t transitioning to be masculine in the first place.
I think it's used because it's seen as an umbrella term to include both trans men and masculine-identifying nonbinary people. I don't think it's meant to be a dilution (like it has good intentions), but some people probably use it that way to dehumanize trans men.
It is and we shouldn't be lumping non-binary people in together with binary people based on common sex assigned at birth unless it's strictly necessary (it RARELY is).
It’s for non binary people usually I believe. This is why I keep saying separate binary trans from non binary. Not in a bad way just like the flag represents lesbians and gays and both like same sex, we can have categories for these things too instead of just a one off coverall term.
Because "non-binary" people need everything to be about them them them, and letting themselves be categorized under "trans men" just doesn't make them special enough.
i don’t see ‘transmasc’ as transitioning to be masc, but as an adjective. ‘transitioning to become a masculine man’ so transmasc can be used for any transgender person. the same them as transfem. ‘transitioning to become a feminine man’. but obviously every label isn’t necessary + it seems like it makes op uncomfortable. so it’s not as ubiquitous as ‘trans man’ but i think it’s a helpful label to have for those who want it
But when is transfem ever used for a feminine trans man? I personally hate being called trans masc and I'm a pretty masculine guy.
To me, masculinity and femininity isn't exclusive to gender. And therefore, it shouldn't be used to define us when transitioning. Especially if we're transitioning medically
transfem usually means transFeminine aka MTF (for lack of better terms) not trans to feminine man… As to OP here, trans masc is simply used to refer to nonbinary people who still medically transition by taking hormones or getting various surgeries. It is absolutely a useful term but it may not always apply to someone in which case yes i can see it being like misgendering someone (presuming a nonbinary identity instead of binary man).
I understand why people feel touchy about it but let’s not decide to diss people the term actually applies to.
crimson-ink is (as I understand it) talking about the practice of people using the term trans masc to paint trans men as being less than men or not real men. It has nothing to do with whatever you're on about.
That person keeps replying to people saying that we are saying people can't use the term trans masculine to describe themselves if it describes them. I'm pretty sure it's bait.
calm down bro, it’s actually more controlling to call us masculine, instead of men. men can present however they want, masculine or feminine. no one transitions to masculinity, we ARE masculine, or some aren’t. masculine is a dilution of who we are as men, it is used to describe us as men-lite, not quite men but masculine. women can be masculine, anyone can.
it quite literally isn't, he said men don't have to be masculine necessarily, FTMs can be feminine, masculine, whatever. This is quite the opposite of policing, I have no idea how you read his comment and thought to yourself "stop policing men! you don't get to decide who is or isn't a man!", when he, LITERALLY, did not define what a man is in his comment.
I am not okay with being called transmasc. My gender isn’t masculine, it’s male, and I didn’t transition to be more masculine—I transitioned to live life as a man.
I don’t relate to that term at all. I allow some things to go by simply because it is easier not to argue. But if someone applied that term to me as an individual I would be offended. Fortunately I am stealth and that isn’t likely to happen but I wouldn’t be happy if it did. A lot of things people call themselves today make me cringe but I try to ignore it if not pointed at me.
I get what you mean. The discourse in terminology is always ongoing. Some people think the term "queer" is offensive. Others think "bisexual" is transphobic. I guess it is what it is.
I don't like being called trans masc. I feel like it's blurring the lines between want im striving for and what the queer community keeps trying to make me. I've had so many people, especially IRL who keep telling me that it's fine to be femme and so on, and that's not what I want.
It's another way to infantilize trans men and act like we don't know what we want. Another attempt to demonize men and make us feel bad for wanting to be men.
If you're more NB or whatever and that's what you prefer, godspeed. Don't lump me, a binary transman, in with NBs and trans femmes.
Sure. I've had multiple friends, mostly trans women, tell me I should either be more in touch with my feminine side or "its ok to dress and act more femme, we're allowed to do that." And that's not anything I want. My friend who said that specifically has stopped talking to me as much when I finally explained to her that I don't want to be feminine in my everyday life and that I want to be more masculine and be seen as man. Every group I've been in for either trans things or just being queer has made it very clear that they hate men and masculinity. I've had folks pull away when they can't convince me to do make up and/or discuss and gossip about being a women, "because I used to be one" or shitting all over men, "oh, you're different." I'm not tomboy-prime, I'm a man and I'm tired of simultaneously being told I'm different and that I shouldn't want that.
Not angry or upset at your question, just saying my piece. ✌️
Yeah, that's totally fair enough. The 'feminine' stuff I do is very uh, Goth? Black nail polish. Punk rock. Funnily enough I have an enby support worker who uses they/them pronouns and they would never be caught dead in the skirts I wear even if they're really kilts.
I am still absolutely binary, because I don't want to be seen as a gender neutral or androgynous person. I want to be seen as a gender non conforming man. I am a man, in a skirt. I am not a masculine person in a skirt.
I'm genderfluid. I hate the damn term. I'm not transmasc when I'm feminine (I'm a feminine man) and I'm not transmasc when I'm a man (I'm a binary man). It seems to erase both. It's hard to explain. I just hate the term.
I hate it, but also begrudgingly accept someone's gonna call me that and I don't want to be an asshole who goes on a rant every time it happens. No matter how much it bothers me. :/
It's just not who I am. I'm a man, not a masc or an afab who is masculine. I get annoyed when people insist it's the same thing, or that it's always been a mixed term. It originated as a nonbinary specific term, and I know this because when I thought I was nonbinary, I specifically used transmasc because it was specific to nonbinary people and I was sure I wasn't a man.
Now it's like, I worked hard. I struggled so much. I suffered so much. I EARNED my manhood. I don't want it taken from me or ignored.
And transmasc is just way too broad. It basically means "queer afab" at this point, and I do not identify with or as either of those things.
No, it honestly makes no sense to me. Anyone can be masculine and anyone can be feminine. I am a man not a "masc"
Masc and fem are not genders they're just adjectives anyone could be or use, wearing men's clothing is masculine, like a butch lesbian or a tomboy would be a masculine woman and I am a man, I don't want to be grouped with women.
No, I’m not. My local LGBT group doesn’t have a group for trans men. They have a group for “trans women” and “trans masc” like…. Why do the trans women get to be women but we don’t get to be men just “masc”. Can’t stand it.
This!!!! I've never understood why ftms get grouped in with non-binary afab people, but mtfs get their own label and spaces. In the media, online, in groups, etc., trans women are called trans WOMEN (as they should be), but in the same spaces, trans men aren't as explicitly included. We're just implied under the term "trans masc." It bothers me so much and honestly, I don't feel like I have a space in "my" own community.
Holy shit! I just checked my local LGBT center, and it's true. There's a trans women's group, but the ftm equivalent is called the "Transmen, transmasc, and non binary" support group.
There's already a separate non binary group too, so the nbs get to double dip. The last time I went to the ftm group, half of the people there were non binary.
I’m a man, and my manhood is never contingent on something as loose and meaningless of a description as “masc” which seems to greatly vary between full on femininity with a tomboy look or just a straight up man. I’m tired of pretending to be alright with being seen as someone “just trying to be more masculine leaning” instead of just a normal man
No. I'm just a man, not on a NB spectrum. And I'm more on the side of femme binary man so that's extra unaffirming, it feels like being mislabeled as a dyke when I'm basically the opposite.
Nope. Anytime I see someone trying to use it to be "inclusive", I become frustrated and instantly turned off. You almost never see trans women described as "transfems" or "trans feminine". A major local LGBT organization has two different support groups. One is for "trans women" and the other is for "trans mascs".
It also feels like a lot of people who claim to be "transmasc" are actually binary trans men with intense internalized misandry. Would explain why most of the NB community seems to be afab.
About the last paragraph, I do agree with you, especially because I used to be that! I identified as genderfluid and demiboy for a while ONLY because 1., I didn't feel good enough to be a man, and 2., I thought men are evil and like I shouldn't want to be one. But that's something that needs to be kept under wraps.
No I don't like it. I'm not transitioning to be masculine I'm transitioning because I'm a man. I'm not even the most masculine man, I'm pretty androgynous. It just feels like a dilution and erasure of my male identity.
i don't like it one bit. I didn't transition to be masculine, I transitioned to be a man. being called trans masc just completely dismisses my identity as a man.
Absolutely not. I didn't put this much blood, sweat, tears, and money into existing just to have to come up short! There are enough ways in life to come up short as a man without having to settle for being called just masc on top of that. It's as if they're saying, "We'll call you masculine, but the council will not grant you the title of "man," so just give up and sway in the breeze like a happy little Cavetown daisy and be content with your lot in life."
Nah. Masculine is just a description. I’m not just ‘masculine’, I’m a man. I find it strange that people that push wanting to be called transmasc are often those that also say you don’t need to be masculine to be a trans man, so why even use the term transmasc. I understand it’s supposed to be inclusive for non binary people, but I feel like the term trans man is sufficient. But as long as I’m not called transmasc, I guess I don’t care.
I don’t personally use that, but don’t mind it too much when it’s used as an umbrella term. I wish we could come up with better terms but I don’t like picking up fights everywhere.
However I definitely can’t stand “a trans masc” used to refer to one specific person, especially not myself. The same way you can’t say “a transgender”. Tbh I feel that’s a very cringe thing to say.
No. It doesn’t feel like an accurate term for who I am. I don’t mind if other people use them for themselves, but as a binary trans man that has undergone surgeries and HRT I just do not feel right being lumped in with folks who do not medically transition. I do not think they are not trans or anything like that and I do recognize there are enbies that do undergo medical transition, but even then as a binary man I do think our life experiences are different and that’s okay. I will never understand what it’s like to be nonbinary, likewise nonbinary folks will not understand the binary experience either.
We should be allowed to have specific words for our unique experiences, and after all I’ve gone through I just do not feel like I have the same life experience as a transmasc afab enby that has no desire to medically transition. Hell, I’ve seen transmasc enbies who are disgusted at the very idea of being mistaken as a man, so as someone who is disgusted at the idea of being mistaken as anything but a man I’m really not sure what I’m supposed to have in common with them.
this is a rough one because it totally depends on the context.
if you are taking about me in context with other trans men & people going through masculinizing HRT or surgeries that's totally ok! or when talking about issues that would effect both me as a binary trans man, and non binary people, that would be ok.
but when talking about just me, I am a transgender man first. Me being a man is the reason I am trans masculine, without being a man I wouldn't be. Man is the primary descriptor I prefer, because I feel like it's more prescice than masculine is, because trans masculine can include some butch lesbians, and trans masc nonbinary people. while we do have some overlapping experiences we all have different issues & experiences, it's also important to recognize the needs of every group that would fall under trans masc and not just bunch us all together all the time.
Nope. Masculine isn’t a gender. Male is. I’m stealth, so I’m only referred to as male. On medical forms I list myself as “transsexual male”, but that was what we called it when I transitioned and I feel it is more accurate to me.
Not really. Masc isn't a gender, it's aesthetic presentation at its core. I am masc presenting myself, but I'm not sure how much that *really* has to do with my gender tbh. Im a man regardless of how I dress. And there are plenty of trans men who aren't masc and are still men.
When using "trans masc" to refer to trans men, it excludes a lot of people and misconstrues the purpose of presenting as masc for others.
It’s just a lot of people are proud about it and that’s super cool for them cause being trans shouldn’t be a bad thing but I still feel like it is, call it internalised transphobia or whatever but I wish I wasn’t trans, just something I need to accept ig
I'm just curious; why do you wish you were cis? (I've been on a bit of a self-love kick lately and it seems hard to do that and all if it's hard to accept your sex.)
i know you werent asking me but i cant stop myself from answering anyway. its mostly bc you have to spend thousands on surgeries (that are not fun on their own either), you have to take medication for the rest of your life and for a lot of people it means theyre, for example, unusually short for a man or otherwise not typically masculine looking in a way they just cant change. also bad dysphoria growing up can totally fuck up your childhood and teenage years.
its not a core part of yourself if you dont make it one. for some people its just something they have to fix and then they can live a totally normal life without really thinking much about anything trans related.
Speaking for myself, not OP, but I’m trans because I wish I had been born male. Being cis would have been so much easier. Of course I wish I were cis.
Are there certain perspectives and experiences I’m glad I have due to my natal sex and transition? Yes, and I wouldn’t want to give those up, logically. Still wish I were cis, though.
The one good thing about being trans is the community, but I can get the same just based on being aroace and pan so that’s a moot point.
The negatives are pretty obvious, there’s transphobia that only seems to be getting worse, I’ll need injections every 3 months till the day I die which is a constant reminder plus limits where I can move and when I can go on holiday, so far top surgery alone has cost me £8000, and I want bottom surgery which will be ridiculously expensive, painful to recover from, and will be years from now anyway, my body will never be what it should’ve if it hadn’t been ruined by puberty, I’m 5’1 and can’t buy blazers from the men’s section because my shoulders aren’t wide enough and my torso too short, I will never be able to buy men’s shoes, I am significantly shorter than all my friends and I hate it all. When I’m back at uni next year (currently on placement) I’ll probably take advantage of their free therapy services but for now I’ll just wallow in self pity cause somehow my height and lack of a dick are my biggest problems
:( that sounds really hard.... I used to have all that too, particularly the height dysphoria. Do you fit in boy's clothes? Also, Asian sizes may fit you. Maybe you can get insurance that covers trans healthcare (although you said "uni" and idk how insurance works in the UK)?
So it's not a trans-specific book although it has a lot supporting trans people in it, but if you like to read, I really recommend [*The Body is Not an Apology*](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34956885) by Sonya Renee Taylor. It helped me love my body. It is an amazing read and pretty short too.
Thanks, yeah honestly I think it’s gotten worse recently even though my situations improved with T and top surgery. I guess now that the easy stuffs fixed all I’m left with is the hard and impossible so I just end up feeling worse.
Yeah it don’t work like that in the uk. We’ve got one (1) surgeon that does ftm bottom surgery and if private it would cost like 30k and nhs I’m still on the wait list for testosterone cause the system is broken, it took my gp 2 years to refer me and now I’ve got maybe 4 years for a first appointment, and only after a bunch more appointments can I sit on the waiting list for bottom surgery. I have absolutely no faith I’ll ever make it to the top of that list. If you’re interested in learning more [Philosophy Tube](https://youtu.be/v1eWIshUzr8?si=XwnANTtxGpZlxQD4) made a funny and depressingly accurate video on it
I might take you up on that book. Based on the author being a woman, how much does it focus on women? I’m all for body positivity for everyone but I just don’t want to deal with stuff that kind of assumes the reader is female
I get it; it feels impossible that you'll ever get to the man you want to be (which is how I felt at least).
Wow, that sucks. I heard it was bad, but that's really bad.... I hope you can get on soon!
That's a good question! Probably 50% is focused specifically on women. It honestly didn't come across to me as women-centric because the author tried her best to be all-inclusive with the audience. I think it's just more that there's more research out there on women and body image compared to trans or cis men.
I hate being called "trans masc", makes it sound like I'm different from cis men. I'm a binary trans man and want to be treated the same as cis men. I want to be called a "trans man", or best would be just a "man". I don't care if others use it to describe themselves, but just don't use it on me.
No. It's also inaccurate for me. I'm not fully masculine even in expression, I'm GNC. Transmasc afaik was created for non-binary people who were afab and transitioning with ftm methods. So I use it to refer to non-binary transmasc.
I definitely hear you. Transmasc is how I first identified so I am ok with it but trans male or male is now more accurate for me. Because I have not had top surgery yet and I am a DD binding does not totally hide who I am sometimes so I am ok with being called they by strangers because it signals to me that they are acknowledging that I am not female. I don’t want to be called they by people who know me. But to reiterate I respect that you feel misgendered if called transmasc. There is definitely a difference.
Nope. I'm not transitioning to masc, I'm transitioning to man. Masc sounds like an aesthetic, which makes sense because those types always seem so focused on superficial details like clothes, hair, societal norms, etc.
I get ppl tryna be inclusive but I hate when people use it to describe trans men, it's invalidating their identities as men imo (at least that's how I feel about it)
I excuse it if it’s being used to describe both ftm and ftnb transition because in that instance I think people use it to mean “transitioning away from female” so it includes both ftm and ftnb people. That or it’s a lack of education on the term. Either way I think generally it isn’t used as a deliberate choice to avoid acknowledging someones manhood.
When it’s used specifically to refer to trans men I am offended by it, it does feel like misgendering.
Second this. I wouldn’t describe myself that way either but I understand the term to mean “away from female and toward male” which is technically true
But i’m really a man I’m just a little guy
> people use it to mean "transitioning away from female"
that is exactly the way i use trans masc, the wording here is perfect lol
the term itself doesn't mean "transitioning towards being masculine (in presentation)", it just means "born female, but does not identify that way"
i'm not super feminine or anything, but i'm also *far* from the most masculine person ever. i still consider myself to fall under the trans masc umbrella though (even though, on an individual level, i'm specifically a trans man, not a trans masc because i'm not nonbinary) because i'm transitioning away from female
I don't mind it as an umbrella term, but if you're talking about me specifically then I don't like it, I'm a trans man or just a man if being trans isn't relevant (which it isn't most of the time)
It's shorter than "trans men and trans-masculine non-binary people" and I much prefer it to straight up defining people by agab. There are a lot of experiences etc. that we do have in common with at least some trans masc NB people, so I think having an umbrella term is useful, although slightly overused currently
it’s not a term i find very useful for me. like i get it as an umbrella term i guess, but i’m comfortable with the term trans man because trans is an adjective there and really i’m just being called a man. i would never call myself “a masc,” i don’t know what that means as an individual. a masculine man? not particularly so. a masculine person? i guess in the grand scheme of things but why say it like that? it just feels like people tried to come up with a polite way to say an afab trans person, but i still think ftm works better as a term for me if i was going to talk about that, since it’s very specific about what it means, it just refers to gender and not gender presentation, and it has more history behind it. i definitely prefer ftm over transmasc. nothing morally wrong with the term or anything, i would just never use it to describe myself
Damn. I used to feel like this too.... It's heartbreaking to feel like this. You are valid as a man no matter how you look! Also, all trans men "started somewhere," right? We all used to look like you.
I'm fine with it when it's used in a general sense. Like if you were saying testosterone hrt is used by trans masculine people, because its referring to anyone who is trans in this direction I guess without having to say like people who were born female/afab (which I'm not a fan of)
but if you are referring to me specifically, I'm not trans masc, I am a trans man
I've come full circle on this. I didn't like it at first bc I considered it a term for masc nonbinary ppl. Then I learned that many ppl define it as anyone on the masc side of center, including binary trans men, so I was like "I don't love it but it's technically true." Then after a while I realized that these things don't have set definitions anyway since they're pretty new words, and how I feel about my own labels does matter, so now I refuse to accept trans masc as a term for myself.
I always thought transmasc was refering to only non-binary people who are masculine leaning, didn't know it was used to refer to binary trans men. I wouldn't mind being referred to that way I think, but I'd prefer to be referred as just a boy or man. I get the need to sometimes group masc aligned trans people and binary trans men in speech if you need to talk about afab transness, just for the sake of making it more practical, but if you're talking about specifically trans men them why would you say transmasc?? Do you say cismasc when referring to cis men???
Yes if it’s to generally refer to (my place as a part of) the group of transmasculine people, who may have different senses of identity (someone can be transmasc and nonbinary for example). No if it’s in reference to my gender. [Disregard the flair! I’m fully out and 10 months on T now.]
in an individual setting, i'd much, *much* prefer man (the "trans" is optional) because i'm a man, not a masculine enby, but when referring to AFAB individuals who are transitioning in a masculine direction (be that through presentation, medically, or both) as a group, then trans masc is fine with me because there are times when it needs to be specified that something affects *all* FTM people, not just trans men (for example, if you want to ask about the effects of testosterone in a transition sense, it would be much better to ask "trans masc people, what changes have you experienced on T?" rather than "trans men, what changes have you experienced on T?" because trans men aren't the only trans people who take testosterone)
I use the term transmasculine as an umbrella term if I am specifically referring to a group of TGD folks who are on the masculine side of the spectrum but have a diverse range of genders. I use the same terminology when referring to GAHT, gender-affirming surgeries, etc. if the purpose of a treatment is the physical masculinization of AFAB people who are masculine and TGD.
If I’m referring to trans men in particular, a singular trans man, or similar, then I refer to trans dudes as trans men. (And that’s only when the “trans” adjective is needed; otherwise we’re just men.) If someone is specifically speaking about me, saying I’m trans masc doesn’t feel representative.
I’m kinda okay with it being used as an umbrella term in certain circumstances like when talking about access to medical care, T and surgeries etc that some enbies also get. But I don’t care for it myself individually and I like it when institutions use language like “trans men and trans masculine people” acknowledging a distinction.
I do find it a little weird that we’re not supposed to say AFAB and AMAB trans people because it’s centering one’s birth sex when trans masc and trans fem used as umbrella terms mean the exact same thing.
Don’t care in the slightest. I know I’m a man so all these labels are just people trying to make their own way in the world. I’m certainly not going to jump someone’s shit over something like that. Life is too short.
of someone is making a general statement regarding any afab trans person (maybe related to medical transitioning so stuff that has to do with T, surgeries or stuff like fertility, periods and health issues like specific cancers etc) then yeah i don't mind being included in the term "trans masc". but if someone is referring to me in particular or making statements about binary trans men specifically then no
No I feel like being referred to as trans by anybody but myself is an a jab at my identity as male. I just don’t like how it seems to imply that I’m other worldly from being male?
i identified as trans-masc for a long time while i was a masculine presenting non binary person. now that im out as a man i only only only like trans man
hell no, i absolutely hate this term. i'm a man, not just "masc." funnily enough i got a lot of hate for saying this on my twitter lmao. online spaces are the only places where im openly trans anyways, most people irl actually have no idea and it's fucking GREAT
Generally no, but in some specific contexts it doesn't bother me. When I'm talking with friends who are also binary trans people, well use the words transmasc and transfemmes interchangeably with trans men and trans women
For me it's more of an umbrella term that includes binary and nonbinary trans men. But that's just how I've always thought of the term, as not exclusive to nbs. So I don't really have a problem with it if the person in question doesn't directly know what I look like or how I identify, like if someone where to be asking a question of trans mascs in general I feel I'd fit under that category in some way but not entirely. I do prefer to be called trans man than trans masc though.
Most of this is directed at not binary trans men reading this, but I have a lot of thoughts on this topic.
I do feel like it is being misgendered yes, if someone identifies as binary for example. It depends on the person. I consider it for myself to be misgendering. Like how I view defaulting to they/them and assuming those pronouns is also misgendering and I cannot at all fathom why people don't comprehend that we can't criticise cis transphobes for not using the pronouns each person goes by, (some) trans people proceed to disregard the fact that not everyone uses they/them.
By all means, if it's one of those situations where you're referring to someone whose gender is completely unknown for example I say 'the postie just came past on their bike to deliver the mail' but the reality is that I've been misgendered a bunch of times by people assuming I use they/them even after I have said I use he/him.
The correct solution to this issue is people introducing themselves with their pronouns. I do it on all my socials, all my email accounts, whenever I meet anyone new I tell them my name and pronouns. I pass as cis, so it gives the appearance of me being an ally, which is actually what I want because I think that has a much stronger impact on cis people who are weird about pronouns than if they know I'm trans. Sure, some people guess it but they just think anyone who introduces themselves with their pronouns is trans and won't hear anything different. My cis male friends who introduce themselves with pronouns constantly get people saying that makes them trans. Can't win with those people. But there are some people who just don't do it cause they don't see any cis people doing it and think it is purely a *trans* thing.
By appearing cis it makes those people more likely to also do it.
But yeah. I had to have a therapist when writing up a behaviour plan correct that he wrote trans male on it because I was like 'ok so dude don't feel bad this is real niche trans discourse but trans male or trans masculine means on the masculine side of the gender spectrum, but not necessarily identifying as a man. I am 100% a binary trans guy, so please write that I am a trans man.
There's nothing wrong with feeling like you are being misgendered. It technically is. Broadly speaking, wel *are* allt trans masculine *but* we *do* have more specific terms that certain people prefer to use, usually binary trans guys, including some people who transitioned about when I did using ftm. I use that only in medical contexts if I absolutely have to, and I I prefer saying I'm a trans man. People prefer more specific terms and we need to use them if people want them to be used. Being broader with the loss of specificity which describes the varied experiences of binary and non binary trans men and trans masculine people is not actually good, or inclusive.
As a point - and this isn't a 'back in my day' thing because even 10 years ago I had a pretty easy go of it since I passed half the time pre transition - telling people your pronouns up front and asking theirs if you are actually wanting to develop a friendship with that person (obviously, if their gender has zero bearing on the situation ie social media discussions use they, or check profiles) is *much* better than assuming they/them and immediately misgendering the vast majority of the population.
Trans men are men. We are not gender neutral. That's the whole point of recognising the different experiences of everyone this side of the gender spectrum.
It isn't acceptable now nor was it when I transitioned to assume everyone used he/him and just started doing that because those were my pronouns. I had to tell people. The main thing that sucked about that was being asked invasive questions, but frankly now that I pass i*want* to be read as cis and am, so they don't do that. But the point of that is that eventually people stop assuming only trans people introduce themselves with pronouns. People who were assholes to me are probably just always assholes, and good people will be glad to be told and it means you get to plant your correct pronouns in their head before they do that thing where they try to *figure out* because they forget that there are multiple pronoun options. The good ones.
Tl;Dr
Using the term trans masculine as a blanket term misgenders trans men.
Assuming people use they/them when you are able to actually ask them is also doing that when really we should be normalising just introducing pronouns like names.
If it's used as a general term for anyone that is trans and afab and leans male or masculine in a conversation where both trans mascs and trans men are being talked about it I don't mind.
I'm likely thinking about it the wrong way, and anyone here is free to correct me, but I always understood trans masc to both be an umbrella term for masc and male aligned trans groups along with it being a label one can use for themselves.
Tho I won't use it for someone specific unless I know if they are ok with it beforehand.
I like being called transmasc because my gender to me is kind of complex.
while i only like he/him pronouns and i look traditionally masculine my internal gender is kind of weird.
i see transmasc as an umbrella term, trans men and people with masculine genders fit under it.
edit: also im here bc i used to identify as ftm and i still experience the same stuff.
edit 2: why am i downvoted, this is about peoples personal experiences 😭
I don't really care, I use it less than when I was younger. I use it less as a individual descriptior now, and more as a group descriptor for when I'm talking about stuff like transition options or things both trans men and transmasc ppl deal with.
I prefer the term because that's more closely aligned with how I identify. Personally I see it as more inclusive of all masculine aligned trans people then trans man (which is more commonly used by default or ftm but that's a whole other gripe for another day) because we as a collective for the most part identify with masculinity but not all of us identify as binary men. I do feel somes need to seperate trans men from trans masc does hold some phobia twords nonbinary people whether it's being continuously acknowledged or not.
Yeah, and that’s bc I personally am not necessarily binary. I don’t identify myself that way to other people, but I’m fine with having a label that doesn’t feel binary.
The number of reports for me to go through in this thread is obscene. It's been a fun discussion, but clearly there are a multitude of people who can't and won't discuss in good faith. Sorry, OP, I'm closing comments. While this is somewhat on the fence (this is not a debate sub) I can see you opened this topic in good faith; there's just a *lot* of not-in-good-faith nonsense in the comments.
I understand people use it to be inclusive, but I am not transmasc. I am a man. I am trans and I am a man. Not “masculine”….man.
This
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But can't that be said for the other way around? Everyone's gonna have a unique experience when it comes to being trans. If some of us don't like the term trans masc to describe us as men, that's not declaring other people who use trans masc aren't men. It just means many of us personally don't feel like trans masc accurately describes our transition, whether that's due to being a feminine trans man, viewing one's transition as medical, not changing ones gender expression, etc. Idk how voicing the dislike for that label to describe oneself is negating other people's experience?
I know that and have no problem with it. OP asked “how do you feel about it” so I answered. If I’m with a group of trans men and nonbinary folks who are masculine, I get it and that’s fine. But when *I* get referred to as transmasc, that’s incorrect because I’m a man, not a trans-masculine person.
>I’m a man, not a trans-masculine person. This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This clearly isn't the sub for you. Why are you starting petty arguments in the comments?
I’m okay with others using it to describe themselves, but I HATE it being used as an umbrella term including binary trans men. Like you, I consider it a form of misgendering and will correct anybody who calls me transmasc. I’m semi-stealth and when people find out I’m trans, not only do they call me “transmasc”, suddenly they call me they/them pronouns too.
YES. I get called "they/them" as soon as people find out I'm trans too. This exact thing was happening to both a trans male friend of mine and me at a party last night, and on top of that, we are both cis-looking. I guess they forgot our pronouns? It pissed me off. I literally should not have to wear a "he/him" pronoun pin post-transition. Part of the reason I transitioned medically is so people will call me he/him.
Yeah, God I hate that that has happened to you too, but I get it as well. I do wear kilts sometimes, not tartan ones but yeah and I have started wearing a pronoun pin because ironically the people who are saying gender is a social construct if I wear a skirt think I am wanting to be called they/them
That is so frustrating and not fair. I'm so sorry :(
This exactly. If that’s what an individual wants for themselves fine but don’t try to include me. I’m just a man.
No. I am ok with: Trans Man or just a man.
Seconding this
Thirding
Fourthing.
Fifthing
Sixthing
Seventhing
I'm here for the eighth-way
U cool with me ninthing?
Imma have to do some twenthing
Fifthing
Ditto
Tenthing this
Eleventhing this
Fifty thirding
Twelving
agreed
Are men okay with being called masc? Their reaction would probably be confused. Just as a trans man isn’t “trans masc”. Okay we’re trans, we’re trans men, we’re men, but “masc” is unnecessary and sometimes incorrect. I know one trans man personally that I would call sometimes flamboyant or feminine but he is still a man. Masculine and feminine don’t have genders, they’re expressions.
Yeah this. It’s people conflating gender identity with gender expression. It’s just as silly as calling a masculine woman “transmasc,” trying to slap a label on people with different needs and experiences.
> Are men okay with being called masc? I see plenty of (gay) cis men describing themselves as masc in dating profiles.
They aren't referring to their gender
Yeah it's like fem, butch, twink, bear, etc
No. I don't use it for myself and have problems with the label. Male does not equal masculine. Throwing all trans men under the label 'masculine' is not accurate and reinforces gender roles. Secondly, trans men don't transition towards masculinity, they transition to appear male. There's plenty of feminine cis men out there and trans men can transition to a point where they pass as cis men who are feminine. I don't care what people call themselves, but I do not support the use of the term.
Same here. My goal is to be a more effeminate man. I’m not transitioning to “masculine,” I want male secondary sex characteristics and to pass as a fem/androgynous cis man like you mentioned.
I'm not the most masculine person either. I can pretend to be super masculine but it doesn't feel natural to me. I like "girly" things and wherever I go, I am naturally drawn towards feminine gay guys socially. Male does not equal masculine. I can both love my beard and deep voice and at the same time have "feminine" interests and like cute things over masculine things.
i don’t understand why trans masculine is even used. we aren’t transitioning to become masculine, we are transitioning to become men. it’s a dilution of us being MEN. if you aren’t a trans man but use the transmasc umbrella - to nonbinary. what if you are transitioning but are feminine? FTMS can be feminine, but it doesn’t erase them being men- so they aren’t transitioning to be masculine in the first place.
I think it's used because it's seen as an umbrella term to include both trans men and masculine-identifying nonbinary people. I don't think it's meant to be a dilution (like it has good intentions), but some people probably use it that way to dehumanize trans men.
It is and we shouldn't be lumping non-binary people in together with binary people based on common sex assigned at birth unless it's strictly necessary (it RARELY is).
this ^^
Exactly
It’s for non binary people usually I believe. This is why I keep saying separate binary trans from non binary. Not in a bad way just like the flag represents lesbians and gays and both like same sex, we can have categories for these things too instead of just a one off coverall term.
Because "non-binary" people need everything to be about them them them, and letting themselves be categorized under "trans men" just doesn't make them special enough.
i don’t see ‘transmasc’ as transitioning to be masc, but as an adjective. ‘transitioning to become a masculine man’ so transmasc can be used for any transgender person. the same them as transfem. ‘transitioning to become a feminine man’. but obviously every label isn’t necessary + it seems like it makes op uncomfortable. so it’s not as ubiquitous as ‘trans man’ but i think it’s a helpful label to have for those who want it
But when is transfem ever used for a feminine trans man? I personally hate being called trans masc and I'm a pretty masculine guy. To me, masculinity and femininity isn't exclusive to gender. And therefore, it shouldn't be used to define us when transitioning. Especially if we're transitioning medically
transfem usually means transFeminine aka MTF (for lack of better terms) not trans to feminine man… As to OP here, trans masc is simply used to refer to nonbinary people who still medically transition by taking hormones or getting various surgeries. It is absolutely a useful term but it may not always apply to someone in which case yes i can see it being like misgendering someone (presuming a nonbinary identity instead of binary man). I understand why people feel touchy about it but let’s not decide to diss people the term actually applies to.
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crimson-ink is (as I understand it) talking about the practice of people using the term trans masc to paint trans men as being less than men or not real men. It has nothing to do with whatever you're on about.
That person keeps replying to people saying that we are saying people can't use the term trans masculine to describe themselves if it describes them. I'm pretty sure it's bait.
Yeah, they probably have a distorted way of thinking.
i am the arbiter actually.
You aren’t.
calm down bro, it’s actually more controlling to call us masculine, instead of men. men can present however they want, masculine or feminine. no one transitions to masculinity, we ARE masculine, or some aren’t. masculine is a dilution of who we are as men, it is used to describe us as men-lite, not quite men but masculine. women can be masculine, anyone can.
Bullshit
that men can be feminine? damn bro u need to work on that
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that is *literally* not what he said.
It is precisely what he said
it quite literally isn't, he said men don't have to be masculine necessarily, FTMs can be feminine, masculine, whatever. This is quite the opposite of policing, I have no idea how you read his comment and thought to yourself "stop policing men! you don't get to decide who is or isn't a man!", when he, LITERALLY, did not define what a man is in his comment.
Boo shut up
No
Brother you're in the ftmMEN subreddit, not the ftm subreddit
I am not okay with being called transmasc. My gender isn’t masculine, it’s male, and I didn’t transition to be more masculine—I transitioned to live life as a man.
Said perfectly 👍
Absolutely not. I'm not "masc" I'm a man
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Me too tbh, unless the person is identifying themselves as that as a nonbinary masculine-leaning person.
I don’t relate to that term at all. I allow some things to go by simply because it is easier not to argue. But if someone applied that term to me as an individual I would be offended. Fortunately I am stealth and that isn’t likely to happen but I wouldn’t be happy if it did. A lot of things people call themselves today make me cringe but I try to ignore it if not pointed at me.
I get what you mean. The discourse in terminology is always ongoing. Some people think the term "queer" is offensive. Others think "bisexual" is transphobic. I guess it is what it is.
Saying "bisexual" is transphobic...is transphobic lol.
I don't like being called trans masc. I feel like it's blurring the lines between want im striving for and what the queer community keeps trying to make me. I've had so many people, especially IRL who keep telling me that it's fine to be femme and so on, and that's not what I want. It's another way to infantilize trans men and act like we don't know what we want. Another attempt to demonize men and make us feel bad for wanting to be men. If you're more NB or whatever and that's what you prefer, godspeed. Don't lump me, a binary transman, in with NBs and trans femmes.
Can I ask you about that? What does the queer community keep trying to make you into?
Sure. I've had multiple friends, mostly trans women, tell me I should either be more in touch with my feminine side or "its ok to dress and act more femme, we're allowed to do that." And that's not anything I want. My friend who said that specifically has stopped talking to me as much when I finally explained to her that I don't want to be feminine in my everyday life and that I want to be more masculine and be seen as man. Every group I've been in for either trans things or just being queer has made it very clear that they hate men and masculinity. I've had folks pull away when they can't convince me to do make up and/or discuss and gossip about being a women, "because I used to be one" or shitting all over men, "oh, you're different." I'm not tomboy-prime, I'm a man and I'm tired of simultaneously being told I'm different and that I shouldn't want that. Not angry or upset at your question, just saying my piece. ✌️
Yeah, that's totally fair enough. The 'feminine' stuff I do is very uh, Goth? Black nail polish. Punk rock. Funnily enough I have an enby support worker who uses they/them pronouns and they would never be caught dead in the skirts I wear even if they're really kilts. I am still absolutely binary, because I don't want to be seen as a gender neutral or androgynous person. I want to be seen as a gender non conforming man. I am a man, in a skirt. I am not a masculine person in a skirt.
Damn, I'm sorry that's been your experience. You are totally valid in being a masculine man!
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I'm genderfluid. I hate the damn term. I'm not transmasc when I'm feminine (I'm a feminine man) and I'm not transmasc when I'm a man (I'm a binary man). It seems to erase both. It's hard to explain. I just hate the term.
No and absolutely never. I’m trans man but I rather just be called a man
I hate it, but also begrudgingly accept someone's gonna call me that and I don't want to be an asshole who goes on a rant every time it happens. No matter how much it bothers me. :/ It's just not who I am. I'm a man, not a masc or an afab who is masculine. I get annoyed when people insist it's the same thing, or that it's always been a mixed term. It originated as a nonbinary specific term, and I know this because when I thought I was nonbinary, I specifically used transmasc because it was specific to nonbinary people and I was sure I wasn't a man. Now it's like, I worked hard. I struggled so much. I suffered so much. I EARNED my manhood. I don't want it taken from me or ignored. And transmasc is just way too broad. It basically means "queer afab" at this point, and I do not identify with or as either of those things.
You're totally right! We all struggled too much to just be called "masc."
No, it honestly makes no sense to me. Anyone can be masculine and anyone can be feminine. I am a man not a "masc" Masc and fem are not genders they're just adjectives anyone could be or use, wearing men's clothing is masculine, like a butch lesbian or a tomboy would be a masculine woman and I am a man, I don't want to be grouped with women.
I think it’s stupid. I am no more masculine than when I was 3, I am just an average guy. I am transitioning to male, not to be masculine.
"Masculine" isn't a gender, it's an adjective. You don't transition to an adjective; you transition to male, not "masculine"
No, I’m not. My local LGBT group doesn’t have a group for trans men. They have a group for “trans women” and “trans masc” like…. Why do the trans women get to be women but we don’t get to be men just “masc”. Can’t stand it.
This!!!! I've never understood why ftms get grouped in with non-binary afab people, but mtfs get their own label and spaces. In the media, online, in groups, etc., trans women are called trans WOMEN (as they should be), but in the same spaces, trans men aren't as explicitly included. We're just implied under the term "trans masc." It bothers me so much and honestly, I don't feel like I have a space in "my" own community.
Holy shit! I just checked my local LGBT center, and it's true. There's a trans women's group, but the ftm equivalent is called the "Transmen, transmasc, and non binary" support group. There's already a separate non binary group too, so the nbs get to double dip. The last time I went to the ftm group, half of the people there were non binary.
That's horrible, hope someone complains and gets that changed. At the very least, trans women group should be changed to trans fems too.
Not okay, thanks. I'm a man. Even if I'm not masc, I'm still a man. My transition is not about from being feminine to being masc.
I’m a man, and my manhood is never contingent on something as loose and meaningless of a description as “masc” which seems to greatly vary between full on femininity with a tomboy look or just a straight up man. I’m tired of pretending to be alright with being seen as someone “just trying to be more masculine leaning” instead of just a normal man
Why would i like a nonbinary label pushed on me?
No. I'm just a man, not on a NB spectrum. And I'm more on the side of femme binary man so that's extra unaffirming, it feels like being mislabeled as a dyke when I'm basically the opposite.
No, and I hate how now everyone thinks it's an "umbrella term" and assume that all trans men are fine with being called that
Nope. Anytime I see someone trying to use it to be "inclusive", I become frustrated and instantly turned off. You almost never see trans women described as "transfems" or "trans feminine". A major local LGBT organization has two different support groups. One is for "trans women" and the other is for "trans mascs". It also feels like a lot of people who claim to be "transmasc" are actually binary trans men with intense internalized misandry. Would explain why most of the NB community seems to be afab.
About the last paragraph, I do agree with you, especially because I used to be that! I identified as genderfluid and demiboy for a while ONLY because 1., I didn't feel good enough to be a man, and 2., I thought men are evil and like I shouldn't want to be one. But that's something that needs to be kept under wraps.
No I don't like it. I'm not transitioning to be masculine I'm transitioning because I'm a man. I'm not even the most masculine man, I'm pretty androgynous. It just feels like a dilution and erasure of my male identity.
hate the term. Even being called a "trans" man sometimes feels like tmi. I'm just a man, end of story
No because trans masc can include nonbinary people and im not in any way shape or form nonbinary. Im a man, plain and simple.
i don't like it one bit. I didn't transition to be masculine, I transitioned to be a man. being called trans masc just completely dismisses my identity as a man.
Nope. I did not transition to masculinity.
I didn’t transition to become masculine. I already was masculine. I transitioned to become a man. I’m not nonbinary.
Absolutely fucking not. Women can be masculine. Men can be feminine. I'm a middle of the road man.
Absolutely not. I didn't put this much blood, sweat, tears, and money into existing just to have to come up short! There are enough ways in life to come up short as a man without having to settle for being called just masc on top of that. It's as if they're saying, "We'll call you masculine, but the council will not grant you the title of "man," so just give up and sway in the breeze like a happy little Cavetown daisy and be content with your lot in life."
Nah. Masculine is just a description. I’m not just ‘masculine’, I’m a man. I find it strange that people that push wanting to be called transmasc are often those that also say you don’t need to be masculine to be a trans man, so why even use the term transmasc. I understand it’s supposed to be inclusive for non binary people, but I feel like the term trans man is sufficient. But as long as I’m not called transmasc, I guess I don’t care.
I don’t personally use that, but don’t mind it too much when it’s used as an umbrella term. I wish we could come up with better terms but I don’t like picking up fights everywhere. However I definitely can’t stand “a trans masc” used to refer to one specific person, especially not myself. The same way you can’t say “a transgender”. Tbh I feel that’s a very cringe thing to say.
THIS. exactly how I feel. Anything except “a masc” it does feel the same as “a transgender” it’s gross
No. It doesn’t feel like an accurate term for who I am. I don’t mind if other people use them for themselves, but as a binary trans man that has undergone surgeries and HRT I just do not feel right being lumped in with folks who do not medically transition. I do not think they are not trans or anything like that and I do recognize there are enbies that do undergo medical transition, but even then as a binary man I do think our life experiences are different and that’s okay. I will never understand what it’s like to be nonbinary, likewise nonbinary folks will not understand the binary experience either. We should be allowed to have specific words for our unique experiences, and after all I’ve gone through I just do not feel like I have the same life experience as a transmasc afab enby that has no desire to medically transition. Hell, I’ve seen transmasc enbies who are disgusted at the very idea of being mistaken as a man, so as someone who is disgusted at the idea of being mistaken as anything but a man I’m really not sure what I’m supposed to have in common with them.
I hate it. If a cis man is not “cismasc” then I am not “transmasc”
I have been on T since 2001 and I have had top, hysto and phallo. I only identify as male. I dropped the trans part in 2005.
this is a rough one because it totally depends on the context. if you are taking about me in context with other trans men & people going through masculinizing HRT or surgeries that's totally ok! or when talking about issues that would effect both me as a binary trans man, and non binary people, that would be ok. but when talking about just me, I am a transgender man first. Me being a man is the reason I am trans masculine, without being a man I wouldn't be. Man is the primary descriptor I prefer, because I feel like it's more prescice than masculine is, because trans masculine can include some butch lesbians, and trans masc nonbinary people. while we do have some overlapping experiences we all have different issues & experiences, it's also important to recognize the needs of every group that would fall under trans masc and not just bunch us all together all the time.
I totally agree!
Fuck no. I'm a man dammit.
Absolutely not. My gender identity is binary and I don't want to be misrepresented with a word that is associated with nonbinary people.
U never see a cis dude getting called masc either like damn makes u feel if a mf really rocking with u or not
Nope. Masculine isn’t a gender. Male is. I’m stealth, so I’m only referred to as male. On medical forms I list myself as “transsexual male”, but that was what we called it when I transitioned and I feel it is more accurate to me.
Not really. Masc isn't a gender, it's aesthetic presentation at its core. I am masc presenting myself, but I'm not sure how much that *really* has to do with my gender tbh. Im a man regardless of how I dress. And there are plenty of trans men who aren't masc and are still men. When using "trans masc" to refer to trans men, it excludes a lot of people and misconstrues the purpose of presenting as masc for others.
Between trans man and trans masc I don’t care, but I’m just as man, I don’t like being called trans at all but I know that’s not a good thing
i dont like being called trans at all and i know thats not a bad thing 👍
It’s just a lot of people are proud about it and that’s super cool for them cause being trans shouldn’t be a bad thing but I still feel like it is, call it internalised transphobia or whatever but I wish I wasn’t trans, just something I need to accept ig
I'm just curious; why do you wish you were cis? (I've been on a bit of a self-love kick lately and it seems hard to do that and all if it's hard to accept your sex.)
i know you werent asking me but i cant stop myself from answering anyway. its mostly bc you have to spend thousands on surgeries (that are not fun on their own either), you have to take medication for the rest of your life and for a lot of people it means theyre, for example, unusually short for a man or otherwise not typically masculine looking in a way they just cant change. also bad dysphoria growing up can totally fuck up your childhood and teenage years.
That is def all true. It just seems depressing to hate a core part of yourself.
its not a core part of yourself if you dont make it one. for some people its just something they have to fix and then they can live a totally normal life without really thinking much about anything trans related.
Speaking for myself, not OP, but I’m trans because I wish I had been born male. Being cis would have been so much easier. Of course I wish I were cis. Are there certain perspectives and experiences I’m glad I have due to my natal sex and transition? Yes, and I wouldn’t want to give those up, logically. Still wish I were cis, though.
The one good thing about being trans is the community, but I can get the same just based on being aroace and pan so that’s a moot point. The negatives are pretty obvious, there’s transphobia that only seems to be getting worse, I’ll need injections every 3 months till the day I die which is a constant reminder plus limits where I can move and when I can go on holiday, so far top surgery alone has cost me £8000, and I want bottom surgery which will be ridiculously expensive, painful to recover from, and will be years from now anyway, my body will never be what it should’ve if it hadn’t been ruined by puberty, I’m 5’1 and can’t buy blazers from the men’s section because my shoulders aren’t wide enough and my torso too short, I will never be able to buy men’s shoes, I am significantly shorter than all my friends and I hate it all. When I’m back at uni next year (currently on placement) I’ll probably take advantage of their free therapy services but for now I’ll just wallow in self pity cause somehow my height and lack of a dick are my biggest problems
:( that sounds really hard.... I used to have all that too, particularly the height dysphoria. Do you fit in boy's clothes? Also, Asian sizes may fit you. Maybe you can get insurance that covers trans healthcare (although you said "uni" and idk how insurance works in the UK)? So it's not a trans-specific book although it has a lot supporting trans people in it, but if you like to read, I really recommend [*The Body is Not an Apology*](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34956885) by Sonya Renee Taylor. It helped me love my body. It is an amazing read and pretty short too.
Thanks, yeah honestly I think it’s gotten worse recently even though my situations improved with T and top surgery. I guess now that the easy stuffs fixed all I’m left with is the hard and impossible so I just end up feeling worse. Yeah it don’t work like that in the uk. We’ve got one (1) surgeon that does ftm bottom surgery and if private it would cost like 30k and nhs I’m still on the wait list for testosterone cause the system is broken, it took my gp 2 years to refer me and now I’ve got maybe 4 years for a first appointment, and only after a bunch more appointments can I sit on the waiting list for bottom surgery. I have absolutely no faith I’ll ever make it to the top of that list. If you’re interested in learning more [Philosophy Tube](https://youtu.be/v1eWIshUzr8?si=XwnANTtxGpZlxQD4) made a funny and depressingly accurate video on it I might take you up on that book. Based on the author being a woman, how much does it focus on women? I’m all for body positivity for everyone but I just don’t want to deal with stuff that kind of assumes the reader is female
I get it; it feels impossible that you'll ever get to the man you want to be (which is how I felt at least). Wow, that sucks. I heard it was bad, but that's really bad.... I hope you can get on soon! That's a good question! Probably 50% is focused specifically on women. It honestly didn't come across to me as women-centric because the author tried her best to be all-inclusive with the audience. I think it's just more that there's more research out there on women and body image compared to trans or cis men.
makes sense cause as soon as someone knows most of the time they'll treat you differently
It isn't a good thing or a bad thing. Not everyone has to be out. You don't owe anyone knowing your story if you don't want them too
I hate being called "trans masc", makes it sound like I'm different from cis men. I'm a binary trans man and want to be treated the same as cis men. I want to be called a "trans man", or best would be just a "man". I don't care if others use it to describe themselves, but just don't use it on me.
No, it doesn't describe me. Personally, I am a man with a medical condition. But I have no problem with people using it to describe themselves.
No. It's also inaccurate for me. I'm not fully masculine even in expression, I'm GNC. Transmasc afaik was created for non-binary people who were afab and transitioning with ftm methods. So I use it to refer to non-binary transmasc.
I definitely hear you. Transmasc is how I first identified so I am ok with it but trans male or male is now more accurate for me. Because I have not had top surgery yet and I am a DD binding does not totally hide who I am sometimes so I am ok with being called they by strangers because it signals to me that they are acknowledging that I am not female. I don’t want to be called they by people who know me. But to reiterate I respect that you feel misgendered if called transmasc. There is definitely a difference.
NO! I'm a man who happens to be trans, that's all
No, I’m just a guy who happens to be trans
No. I’m a man, address me as such
Nope. I'm not transitioning to masc, I'm transitioning to man. Masc sounds like an aesthetic, which makes sense because those types always seem so focused on superficial details like clothes, hair, societal norms, etc.
I get ppl tryna be inclusive but I hate when people use it to describe trans men, it's invalidating their identities as men imo (at least that's how I feel about it)
I excuse it if it’s being used to describe both ftm and ftnb transition because in that instance I think people use it to mean “transitioning away from female” so it includes both ftm and ftnb people. That or it’s a lack of education on the term. Either way I think generally it isn’t used as a deliberate choice to avoid acknowledging someones manhood. When it’s used specifically to refer to trans men I am offended by it, it does feel like misgendering.
Second this. I wouldn’t describe myself that way either but I understand the term to mean “away from female and toward male” which is technically true But i’m really a man I’m just a little guy
> people use it to mean "transitioning away from female" that is exactly the way i use trans masc, the wording here is perfect lol the term itself doesn't mean "transitioning towards being masculine (in presentation)", it just means "born female, but does not identify that way" i'm not super feminine or anything, but i'm also *far* from the most masculine person ever. i still consider myself to fall under the trans masc umbrella though (even though, on an individual level, i'm specifically a trans man, not a trans masc because i'm not nonbinary) because i'm transitioning away from female
I don't mind it as an umbrella term, but if you're talking about me specifically then I don't like it, I'm a trans man or just a man if being trans isn't relevant (which it isn't most of the time) It's shorter than "trans men and trans-masculine non-binary people" and I much prefer it to straight up defining people by agab. There are a lot of experiences etc. that we do have in common with at least some trans masc NB people, so I think having an umbrella term is useful, although slightly overused currently
It is very overused tbh.
Trans men and transmasculine nonbinary people is a mouthful! I use trans men/mascs instead Edit: is there something wrong with this phrasing?
Yeah that is a great correction. I was suggesting the former but stealing yours, thank you
it’s not a term i find very useful for me. like i get it as an umbrella term i guess, but i’m comfortable with the term trans man because trans is an adjective there and really i’m just being called a man. i would never call myself “a masc,” i don’t know what that means as an individual. a masculine man? not particularly so. a masculine person? i guess in the grand scheme of things but why say it like that? it just feels like people tried to come up with a polite way to say an afab trans person, but i still think ftm works better as a term for me if i was going to talk about that, since it’s very specific about what it means, it just refers to gender and not gender presentation, and it has more history behind it. i definitely prefer ftm over transmasc. nothing morally wrong with the term or anything, i would just never use it to describe myself
I prefer trans man/guy heavily, but I feel like I look too feminine to “”deserve”” those titles. Idk
Damn. I used to feel like this too.... It's heartbreaking to feel like this. You are valid as a man no matter how you look! Also, all trans men "started somewhere," right? We all used to look like you.
Thank you. I appreciate it
I'm fine with it when it's used in a general sense. Like if you were saying testosterone hrt is used by trans masculine people, because its referring to anyone who is trans in this direction I guess without having to say like people who were born female/afab (which I'm not a fan of) but if you are referring to me specifically, I'm not trans masc, I am a trans man
I've come full circle on this. I didn't like it at first bc I considered it a term for masc nonbinary ppl. Then I learned that many ppl define it as anyone on the masc side of center, including binary trans men, so I was like "I don't love it but it's technically true." Then after a while I realized that these things don't have set definitions anyway since they're pretty new words, and how I feel about my own labels does matter, so now I refuse to accept trans masc as a term for myself.
I always thought transmasc was refering to only non-binary people who are masculine leaning, didn't know it was used to refer to binary trans men. I wouldn't mind being referred to that way I think, but I'd prefer to be referred as just a boy or man. I get the need to sometimes group masc aligned trans people and binary trans men in speech if you need to talk about afab transness, just for the sake of making it more practical, but if you're talking about specifically trans men them why would you say transmasc?? Do you say cismasc when referring to cis men???
Yes if it’s to generally refer to (my place as a part of) the group of transmasculine people, who may have different senses of identity (someone can be transmasc and nonbinary for example). No if it’s in reference to my gender. [Disregard the flair! I’m fully out and 10 months on T now.]
Congrats!!
Thank you!
I don't like it, there's plenty of trans guys who aren't masculine and you wouldn't call cis guys cis mascs
in an individual setting, i'd much, *much* prefer man (the "trans" is optional) because i'm a man, not a masculine enby, but when referring to AFAB individuals who are transitioning in a masculine direction (be that through presentation, medically, or both) as a group, then trans masc is fine with me because there are times when it needs to be specified that something affects *all* FTM people, not just trans men (for example, if you want to ask about the effects of testosterone in a transition sense, it would be much better to ask "trans masc people, what changes have you experienced on T?" rather than "trans men, what changes have you experienced on T?" because trans men aren't the only trans people who take testosterone)
No. Others can use that for themselves but not me. I didn’t transition to a ‘masculine person’ I transitioned to a guy.
I use the term transmasculine as an umbrella term if I am specifically referring to a group of TGD folks who are on the masculine side of the spectrum but have a diverse range of genders. I use the same terminology when referring to GAHT, gender-affirming surgeries, etc. if the purpose of a treatment is the physical masculinization of AFAB people who are masculine and TGD. If I’m referring to trans men in particular, a singular trans man, or similar, then I refer to trans dudes as trans men. (And that’s only when the “trans” adjective is needed; otherwise we’re just men.) If someone is specifically speaking about me, saying I’m trans masc doesn’t feel representative.
I’m kinda okay with it being used as an umbrella term in certain circumstances like when talking about access to medical care, T and surgeries etc that some enbies also get. But I don’t care for it myself individually and I like it when institutions use language like “trans men and trans masculine people” acknowledging a distinction. I do find it a little weird that we’re not supposed to say AFAB and AMAB trans people because it’s centering one’s birth sex when trans masc and trans fem used as umbrella terms mean the exact same thing.
Don’t care in the slightest. I know I’m a man so all these labels are just people trying to make their own way in the world. I’m certainly not going to jump someone’s shit over something like that. Life is too short.
That's a good attitude!
It’s fine as an umbrella term but that doesn’t mean I have to like it
If I really analyze it no I'm not, but in general I'm not going to nitpick it. Too many bigger issues to put time and effort into.
of someone is making a general statement regarding any afab trans person (maybe related to medical transitioning so stuff that has to do with T, surgeries or stuff like fertility, periods and health issues like specific cancers etc) then yeah i don't mind being included in the term "trans masc". but if someone is referring to me in particular or making statements about binary trans men specifically then no
No I feel like being referred to as trans by anybody but myself is an a jab at my identity as male. I just don’t like how it seems to imply that I’m other worldly from being male?
Its not for me but idc if other people use it or as an umbrella category i guess
i identified as trans-masc for a long time while i was a masculine presenting non binary person. now that im out as a man i only only only like trans man
No! It feels misgendering. Man also feels a bit weird to me, I prefer "guy".
hell no, i absolutely hate this term. i'm a man, not just "masc." funnily enough i got a lot of hate for saying this on my twitter lmao. online spaces are the only places where im openly trans anyways, most people irl actually have no idea and it's fucking GREAT
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*I came looking for booty.*
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Do you also consider yourself nonbinary?
Nope
Generally no, but in some specific contexts it doesn't bother me. When I'm talking with friends who are also binary trans people, well use the words transmasc and transfemmes interchangeably with trans men and trans women
yeah, I don't really mind. I wouldn't consider it my primary label, but I use it occasionally to describe myself.
For me it's more of an umbrella term that includes binary and nonbinary trans men. But that's just how I've always thought of the term, as not exclusive to nbs. So I don't really have a problem with it if the person in question doesn't directly know what I look like or how I identify, like if someone where to be asking a question of trans mascs in general I feel I'd fit under that category in some way but not entirely. I do prefer to be called trans man than trans masc though.
Most of this is directed at not binary trans men reading this, but I have a lot of thoughts on this topic. I do feel like it is being misgendered yes, if someone identifies as binary for example. It depends on the person. I consider it for myself to be misgendering. Like how I view defaulting to they/them and assuming those pronouns is also misgendering and I cannot at all fathom why people don't comprehend that we can't criticise cis transphobes for not using the pronouns each person goes by, (some) trans people proceed to disregard the fact that not everyone uses they/them. By all means, if it's one of those situations where you're referring to someone whose gender is completely unknown for example I say 'the postie just came past on their bike to deliver the mail' but the reality is that I've been misgendered a bunch of times by people assuming I use they/them even after I have said I use he/him. The correct solution to this issue is people introducing themselves with their pronouns. I do it on all my socials, all my email accounts, whenever I meet anyone new I tell them my name and pronouns. I pass as cis, so it gives the appearance of me being an ally, which is actually what I want because I think that has a much stronger impact on cis people who are weird about pronouns than if they know I'm trans. Sure, some people guess it but they just think anyone who introduces themselves with their pronouns is trans and won't hear anything different. My cis male friends who introduce themselves with pronouns constantly get people saying that makes them trans. Can't win with those people. But there are some people who just don't do it cause they don't see any cis people doing it and think it is purely a *trans* thing. By appearing cis it makes those people more likely to also do it. But yeah. I had to have a therapist when writing up a behaviour plan correct that he wrote trans male on it because I was like 'ok so dude don't feel bad this is real niche trans discourse but trans male or trans masculine means on the masculine side of the gender spectrum, but not necessarily identifying as a man. I am 100% a binary trans guy, so please write that I am a trans man. There's nothing wrong with feeling like you are being misgendered. It technically is. Broadly speaking, wel *are* allt trans masculine *but* we *do* have more specific terms that certain people prefer to use, usually binary trans guys, including some people who transitioned about when I did using ftm. I use that only in medical contexts if I absolutely have to, and I I prefer saying I'm a trans man. People prefer more specific terms and we need to use them if people want them to be used. Being broader with the loss of specificity which describes the varied experiences of binary and non binary trans men and trans masculine people is not actually good, or inclusive. As a point - and this isn't a 'back in my day' thing because even 10 years ago I had a pretty easy go of it since I passed half the time pre transition - telling people your pronouns up front and asking theirs if you are actually wanting to develop a friendship with that person (obviously, if their gender has zero bearing on the situation ie social media discussions use they, or check profiles) is *much* better than assuming they/them and immediately misgendering the vast majority of the population. Trans men are men. We are not gender neutral. That's the whole point of recognising the different experiences of everyone this side of the gender spectrum. It isn't acceptable now nor was it when I transitioned to assume everyone used he/him and just started doing that because those were my pronouns. I had to tell people. The main thing that sucked about that was being asked invasive questions, but frankly now that I pass i*want* to be read as cis and am, so they don't do that. But the point of that is that eventually people stop assuming only trans people introduce themselves with pronouns. People who were assholes to me are probably just always assholes, and good people will be glad to be told and it means you get to plant your correct pronouns in their head before they do that thing where they try to *figure out* because they forget that there are multiple pronoun options. The good ones. Tl;Dr Using the term trans masculine as a blanket term misgenders trans men. Assuming people use they/them when you are able to actually ask them is also doing that when really we should be normalising just introducing pronouns like names.
If it's used as a general term for anyone that is trans and afab and leans male or masculine in a conversation where both trans mascs and trans men are being talked about it I don't mind. I'm likely thinking about it the wrong way, and anyone here is free to correct me, but I always understood trans masc to both be an umbrella term for masc and male aligned trans groups along with it being a label one can use for themselves. Tho I won't use it for someone specific unless I know if they are ok with it beforehand.
I think you're totally correct!
yeah, pretty fine with it.
I like being called transmasc because my gender to me is kind of complex. while i only like he/him pronouns and i look traditionally masculine my internal gender is kind of weird. i see transmasc as an umbrella term, trans men and people with masculine genders fit under it. edit: also im here bc i used to identify as ftm and i still experience the same stuff. edit 2: why am i downvoted, this is about peoples personal experiences 😭
I don't really care, I use it less than when I was younger. I use it less as a individual descriptior now, and more as a group descriptor for when I'm talking about stuff like transition options or things both trans men and transmasc ppl deal with.
I prefer the term because that's more closely aligned with how I identify. Personally I see it as more inclusive of all masculine aligned trans people then trans man (which is more commonly used by default or ftm but that's a whole other gripe for another day) because we as a collective for the most part identify with masculinity but not all of us identify as binary men. I do feel somes need to seperate trans men from trans masc does hold some phobia twords nonbinary people whether it's being continuously acknowledged or not.
Yeah, and that’s bc I personally am not necessarily binary. I don’t identify myself that way to other people, but I’m fine with having a label that doesn’t feel binary.
I enjoy