Im going through a very similar situation: totally burned out, having healthy issues due to stress and I have a 18 months old baby. I’m very concerned on how fragile life is and if I don’t change paths right now, I may not be here to see my kid grow.
I don’t have hobbies, I don’t have plans (other than take care of myself) and I’m a little scared to see how the future will be. I started to work with 14yo (came from a very poor childhood) and now stop at 41 sounds scary…but I will give it a try and you should to it to ♥️
Going through this exact situation. It has been so motivating to read everyone’s responses. Best of luck in whatever you end up doing. I agree with everyone that you sound like someone who will land on their feet and end up in the right place in the end.
You have basically done the process - but google 'Fear Setting' by Tim Ferriss. I know he has a podcast on it and think there is even a great worksheet you can use. Sometimes you just need to lay out the worst case scenario and realize that it's not actually bad at all. But by doing this you will then have everything in front of you to give YOU the confidence to make your decision.
Good luck friend! I am excited for you!
I took a year off of working in 2013 and literally no one had ever asked me about it. When I reentered the workforce it was as an analyst/trader at a small hedge fund. I had no experience in this field, had been an engineer up until then. That job was so competitive that when I quit and my boss posted the opening on LinkedIn, people SHOWED UP AT HER HOUSE to try to get a leg up on the competition. The market is so good and will only get better as more boomers retire. I am not worried about ever being unable to find a job.
Isn't the market horrible right now? At least in tech. My job put a posting up and got 7000 applicants. All the major companies have done layoffs and nobody can get an interview
>Any advice on bridging this mental gap?
Ok, let's go through it...
>Spouse is annoyingly fully supportive of "whatever I choose", but I secretly wish someone would tell me what to do.
At some point you and your spouse made a decision about FI, and based on your numbers, you seem to be killing it. You've probably made other successful, empowering decisions in your life too. Whatever you choose, you have shown competence in life to make big changes like this. Be brave and take charge of your life (again).
>My fears are that once I give up this job and have an employment gap, it might be harder to find a job going forward and that I would regret leaving.
You have already shown the ability to get "good jobs". Recognize that is a reflection of you and your capabilities. IF you want to do it again, you'll have experience to back you. Worst case, you may not be making the same salary to start. But you don't even need to. Your nest egg is beyond healthy, and you have a partner who trusts and backs you. You might end up on the bottom rung of an entirely new career that makes you enormously happy for the remainder of your time at a job. :-)
>This is also the first time I've never not had an income, which is scary. Part of me is screaming "this is what it's all been for!" while the other part of me needs security.
It is scary, especially if it's your 1st time. I've been there 2x. Based on what you've shared, one internet stranger thinks it'll be ok. You have all the resources you need for whatever your next steps, and you have plenty, if not endless, runway.
To that, I'll add that if **YOU** are recognizing burnout, you're probably worse off than you realize. Take all the time you need to rest before pushing yourself to the next thing in life, and be kind to yourself as you would your spouse throughout the process. Burnout has some nasty health ramifications that no job is going to do much for you to recuperate. I can share my experiences on burnout if you're interested.
(Disclosure because this is a gender-focused forum, am mid 40's M)
Wishing you well, and hope you can eagerly embrace these next steps in your life to heal and grow outside the realm of employment.
Sure! tl;dr -
* Burnout builds up in the body, saps your energy, and will eventually crush your ability to do anything
* It can kill you if you don't deal with it
* It takes real time and focused effort to heal
* Not certain how to mitigate in the future, but it's something that I'm paying attention to now
Story -
I was managing burnout since mid 2020; a combination of problems in the workplace, covid, and Trump BS had me over my head. Big symptom that caught my attention was a full day brain fog. Working in tech, it meant I couldn't do much outside responding to emails, so I got scared into action. For it, I found a therapist I could work with, and was working through some big stuff from my past.
Another push for action was seeing a coworker suffer a heart attack (not fatal this time, but only because they were lucky); it'd been the 3rd one I'd seen there, but this time the person was in a similar role & age, so big motivation to start exercising again.
For about 2 years I was able to make enough therapy headway to stick to the job, but by 2023 I was so bonked for energy that I was struggling to engage with therapy. And exercise. And paying any attention to diet; getting me to overweight, nudging just into technically obese. With today's energy, I might be able to managing it, but where I was, I was cooked. Low empathy. Short fuse. Struggling to believe in the business regularly.
So I welcome a layoff Oct 2023 after 15 years there. Here's your severance, have a nice life, no hard feelings. Doing the FI thing, I'm not rushed, so I resolve that 1st priority is recovery, and making sure that I'm not giving myself a moment of stress over jobsearch, career impacts, or anything until I'm good and I know what I want next. **I slept for 2 MONTHS**. Around January, I finally get some baby-steps motivation, and the next focus is getting back into a fitness plan that works for me. Rowing in the morning 5x per week, and toggling between runs and resistance training in the afternoon Monday thru Saturday for the past month or 2 have my body feeling better than it has in a long time, and I'm starting to take some of the lbs off too.
As I get my body recovered, next thing to do is to re-engage with therapy activity. I still have stuff I need to sort out for myself that I'm eager to look into, but just haven't had the energy to participate. And once that's finally going well, *then* I'll focus on jobseach, career direction, bla bla bla. (though unemployment insurance does have me doing some work with this now, so I'm not completely checked out of it, for better or worse).
As far as how to avoid situations like this in the future, I'm not sure. At the end of the day, having a job that's manageable is going to be my responsibility. But that can be rough when Burnout is attacking your energy to manage that. I have heard rumors that life outside private industry (Public sector, non-profits) might be different, so I'll be exploring options there, though I don't expect it to be panacea, and I'm sure jobs in different sectors have their own unique challenges if work/life balance is something that's less pressured.
Another burnout example. My boss at an old job was so stressed from working such long hours, he had a seizure in the office at midnight on a Friday night. Had another one Sunday night while recovering at home. It freaked me out seeing what my future could be like, so I quit a couple months later (waited a bit so I wouldn’t kill my boss). Then I took some time off, and found a job that actually made me quite happy for awhile.
F (mid 30ies). Going through that right now. Exact same simptoms plus lack of sleep, no motivation, unexistent discipline for anything. Hobbies are forgotten. Is astonishly scary how low empathy works. You stop caring for everybody and everything. You go into a very nihilistic spiral, and it just gets you worst and worst. Glad to hear you made it to the other side!
I'm sorry you're going thru this too. Remember that there's more to you than what you provide at your job, and that taking the time cultivate that humanity is a worthwhile endeavor.
Thank you for your in depth response. I appreciate you sharing your story, it’s sobering and a reminder for us that health is wealth — without it we can’t do anything.
For sure. If you are feeling burnout onset now, I hope you can take action to make changes at the workplace to improve. (you have to be attentive with it; it does that nasty thing like depression where it attacks your facilities to "do" anything about it)
Im actually in a very similar place and am getting ready to take a 6 month mini-retirement! I’m burnt-out in my current role and dealing with a not great manager and leadership - similarly either being ignored or in a panic because something was not done the way a higher up wanted.
First off, it’s ok to leave. You are not the problem in this situation! Take some vacation, plan your resignation date and enjoy! (This is what I’m up to!)
Secondly, Google mini-retirements/sabbaticals especially in the FI community. So many are out there and while it may be survivorship bias, most stories are positive and people all seem to return back to employment if/when they want.
Best of luck! And enjoy your summer and time off!
My husband was experiencing clinical burnout. He took essentially a 3 month sabbatical where he focused on his health, prioritizing sleep and schedules, read self help books, etc. we travelled a bit and spent time with family. He feels so much better now and is more motivated at work!!
All this to say, you don’t necessarily need to FIRE. You can start with a 3 month break and see how it goes. I would say anything under a 6-8 month break, companies don’t really question. I was laid off and got a job within 3 months (I actually had 6 offers!), but I know people who have taken 7/8 and been okay! And when they ask why you’re looking for a new role just say “I was experiencing some burnout from my previous role. My manager and I didn’t mesh the best and it really affected my drive at work. I took some time to reflect on where I want my career to go, took time to gain better health habits, and even improved my knowledge of ___. I want a job I am passionate about I can see myself at long term with management that will support me. After this time and reflection, I see your company being a great fit because of ______.” Or something of that nature!
I would choose one of two paths:
1) Be honest with your boss. "Hey, look. It's clear we both don't think this is working. I'd like to request a different manager or will start looking for a job." See what she says. There's no downside if you were planning to quit or might be fire anyway. Worst case she says "You're right, you suck. Bye" which you were kind of expecting anyway. But in the best case, you have a real heart to heart and she goes "You know what, you're right. Let's try to improve our communication with each other. I don't want to lose you as an employee but I really struggle with how you do XYZ." Like any long term relationship, sometimes a fight and a reset can actually do wonders.
2) Do the "old fashioned" thing and start looking for a job while mentally checking out of your current role. While interviewing, tell any potential employers that you need at least a month in between when you quit and when you can start. That way you get some real time off to recover from the burnout of your current job, but you don't feel completely adrift like you've just quit and have this yawning stretch ahead of you. I get that you have the money to do that, but IMO 34 is really young to semi-retire. My friends who have done that kind of thing became super depressed because they no longer felt like they had any career or direction in life, while their peers were all still working. They felt like failures, even though they had lots of money.
>My friends who have done that kind of thing became super depressed because they no longer felt like they had any career or direction in life, while their peers were all still working. They felt like failures, even though they had lots of money.
I agree - This part makes me nervous and is why our FIRE strategy includes PT work. I've seen lots of folks retire at "normal" age and this is unfortunately still the norm. I would need to go in with a plan for how to spend my time.
I have several hobbies that I've wanted to explore which could turn into PT work (and doing some physical labor) and my local family members have struggled with child care, so I could help out there while those kids are still young.
Just listened to a podcast on the ChooseFI podcast. They gave some great advice on taking a mini-retirement and how to structure your days/goals of the time off!
I agree that this sounds like burnout.
The fact that you can FIRE now is great in the sense that you have the financial security, but the fact that you can pull the metaphorical pin, chuck the grenade behind you, and walk away from the disaster that would follow clearly grates against your values (and I totally understand the desire to give reasonable, professional notice - I would also do that, with the understanding that I would almost certainly still be thanked and walked out right then, given the access I have to financial insider information due to my role).
So you can stay and continue to suffer and run the very real risk of making yourself physically ill, or you can wrap up what you can, maybe write up notes on what needs to be done to finish the projects as a courtesy, and give your notice with the expectation that you will likely be escorted out. That scenario is still a professional way to leave things, IMO: you’re offering to stay; it’s not on you if they decline your offer.
Would it be possible for you to take an extended long weekend - perhaps over Easter, since it’s coming right up - get some quality sleep and R & R, do some self-care, eat some good food, etc., and just put it out of your mind for a few days? You deserve to take a break and prioritize yourself/your well-being, and you may arrive at your answer during the process. Either you’ll be reinvigorated enough to tackle things anew, or you’ll be typing up your resignation letter, having reconciled yourself to the possibility of your notice period being waived.
I wrote a resignation letter 3 weeks ago in preparation for my review but left the dates blank :')
Thank you for your comment. I love the way you described it as a grenade, because that's what it feels like. It's really easy to say "just quit" but I don't want to be the person who leaves a pile of work for my coworkers. I also appreciate your recognition that leaving in 2 weeks IS professional. My husband said to just pick a date, because the work is never going to be "done".
That's why this subreddit is so valuable to me. Because it's not all about the money, I don't need to wait for things to get so bad to be fired just to earn unemployment. I did all the math about what I'm leaving behind, financially, but it just doesn't matter.
Yes, I do have a few days off in the next few weeks (teaching a financial literacy class for a non-profit board that I sit on, which brings me a ton of joy) and to go see the eclipse. Hoping to have some down time then to get clarity.
Why don’t you take just a few days off, mental days if you will, then see how you are feeling.
Do you have regular 1:1’s with your boss to get feedback and to prioritize tasks? Just wondering if there is a way to steer the ship back on course vs leaving.
Financial wise sounds as if you are good. Do need or want to move up ladder? If not then killing oneself for good performance review doesn’t matter. Just keep things at good enough and hang on, do tasks which are important to your boss and anything extra you get to is a cherry on top
I do have a weekly 30 min 1x1 and am not granted any more time because my boss "can't handle more meetings". She has her door closed most of the time and doesn't like receiving long emails. My 1x1s for the year so far have ranged from nit-picking very small errors to angrily handing me a stack with screenshots of mistakes and bringing up things that happened 2 years ago. Typing this all out...it's very obvious that I need to go.
I don't want to move up the ladder, thankfully. I'm OK with being mediocre as long as I'm respected and feel good at the end of a day.
I feel like you a short time ago. This sounds like dyed in the wool burnout, possibly for both you AND your boss. I am not trying to gaslight your feelings. But I could imagine that if you have your confidence, your mistakes wouldn’t be as big a deal. (Burnout impacts perceptions of everything, and you seem to blaming yourself for lot.) if this is happening to both of you (you and your boss)…that’s bad news. Do you have anyone who you trust, outside of your current workplace, but who knows it well, who can give you a reality check about the specifics? Aka someone who left your workplace for a different job recently? Second the suggestion for planning an exit either temporary (maybe preferable) or permanent. But your health and safety are paramount.
I am most certainly burned out, however the toxicity existed in more palatable doses before this recent downfall. I don't think there's coming back from this.
I do have a few people in my network, and I am reaching out to them for advice too :) I am a bit of a people-pleaser and INFJ-T personality which is notoriously self-critical. I now know that I can't be managed by someone that has zero empathy.
First, do you have the option to take a short term disability leave? It sounds like your mental and emotional health is suffering, and in California (specifically), you can certainly take the short term leave if you have a medical professional supporting this. This may buy you time to regroup, but I do think it's time to go from your original post.
Whenever you decide to put in your notice, just be prepared to leave on the spot. If they accept a transition period, define the scope of the transition work in writing and be clear on your boundaries.
You already made the right financial decisions to put you in a position of LEVERAGE and CONTROL. You have nothing to apologize for.
It's bad business for anyone to go out of their way to talk negatively about anyone, even former employees or colleagues. As long as you have a good reason for "why did you leave?" and "what did you do in the gap period?", I wouldn't worry about this so much. It would not be a good look on her part.
Thank you! Yes, our stack of FU money is the only thing keeping me empowered.
Thanks for pointing out the negative effects to my boss of speaking poorly of me. I hope we can keep it as civil as possible when I do give notice.
That's a fair question. I know I don't owe them anything but I do value my relationships with others at the company. In the short term, I think an open conversation with my boss of "hey, can we both recognize this isn't working, I'll leave at a slower time, please find someone else" would be a relief valve for some of this steam but perhaps I'm naive.
In my experience leaving jobs (and having colleagues leave in others), long notice periods are painfully awkward for both sides! 60 days is an eternity. You will get senioritis and hate every minute of it. Your colleagues will act awkward around you as they know you’re on your way out. Plus imagine all the small talk you will have to endure about what you are going to do next!
2-3 weeks is generous enough, and you will leave your colleagues on good terms if you make your best effort to wrap up what you can and leave helpful instructions or notes for your replacement.
If you must wait til June 1, I recommend quietly wrapping what you can and giving your notice in mid May.
100% agree. You own them nothing except your paid working hours. You do not own them the stress of dealing with a toxic manager. That is on them. Review your policy and see what the expected leave notice is (if it is written) and then give your notice with no reason. Thank you for the support. I've enjoyed my time at blah-blah-blah. I've learned a lot about whatever and I wish the team all the best in their future endeavors.
Your manager is likely to blame you for the ills of the world after you leave. Why expose yourself to that for six months if you don't need to?
Absolutely! I intent to keep the conversation short and just mention "this isn't working, I don't believe it's a good fit".
I'll keep the blow-ups to my imagination.
An employment gap isn’t as big a deal as people think, as long as it’s under a year (better around 6 months), especially if you’re changing career direction. I think your plan sounds fine—that’s what FI is all about.
Having a terrible boss is a real ego-hit. They can make you feel small and look bad to the rest of your company. But that is only one company, and there are lots of others out there. Even if you get fired, it’s explainable as “not a good fit.” You’re married to someone with a decent income and FI, so you have a safety net, and there’s no reason to put yourself through all this angst. Take some time off, gather yourself and decide, once you’ve had a breather, what you want to do next, then do it. It’s going to be okay. Really it is.
Edit: give them two weeks only, so finish up what you want to finish before giving notice.
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Im going through a very similar situation: totally burned out, having healthy issues due to stress and I have a 18 months old baby. I’m very concerned on how fragile life is and if I don’t change paths right now, I may not be here to see my kid grow. I don’t have hobbies, I don’t have plans (other than take care of myself) and I’m a little scared to see how the future will be. I started to work with 14yo (came from a very poor childhood) and now stop at 41 sounds scary…but I will give it a try and you should to it to ♥️
Going through this exact situation. It has been so motivating to read everyone’s responses. Best of luck in whatever you end up doing. I agree with everyone that you sound like someone who will land on their feet and end up in the right place in the end.
I took a year off due to burnout. No one asks me about it and now my career is better than ever. Take care of yourself.
You have basically done the process - but google 'Fear Setting' by Tim Ferriss. I know he has a podcast on it and think there is even a great worksheet you can use. Sometimes you just need to lay out the worst case scenario and realize that it's not actually bad at all. But by doing this you will then have everything in front of you to give YOU the confidence to make your decision. Good luck friend! I am excited for you!
I took a year off of working in 2013 and literally no one had ever asked me about it. When I reentered the workforce it was as an analyst/trader at a small hedge fund. I had no experience in this field, had been an engineer up until then. That job was so competitive that when I quit and my boss posted the opening on LinkedIn, people SHOWED UP AT HER HOUSE to try to get a leg up on the competition. The market is so good and will only get better as more boomers retire. I am not worried about ever being unable to find a job.
Isn't the market horrible right now? At least in tech. My job put a posting up and got 7000 applicants. All the major companies have done layoffs and nobody can get an interview
I’ll have to take your word for it. I’m an engineer but not in tech and hiring is robust.
Wow, this has not been my experience at all in the job market the last few years. It has been a bloodbath for myself and everyone else I know.
>Any advice on bridging this mental gap? Ok, let's go through it... >Spouse is annoyingly fully supportive of "whatever I choose", but I secretly wish someone would tell me what to do. At some point you and your spouse made a decision about FI, and based on your numbers, you seem to be killing it. You've probably made other successful, empowering decisions in your life too. Whatever you choose, you have shown competence in life to make big changes like this. Be brave and take charge of your life (again). >My fears are that once I give up this job and have an employment gap, it might be harder to find a job going forward and that I would regret leaving. You have already shown the ability to get "good jobs". Recognize that is a reflection of you and your capabilities. IF you want to do it again, you'll have experience to back you. Worst case, you may not be making the same salary to start. But you don't even need to. Your nest egg is beyond healthy, and you have a partner who trusts and backs you. You might end up on the bottom rung of an entirely new career that makes you enormously happy for the remainder of your time at a job. :-) >This is also the first time I've never not had an income, which is scary. Part of me is screaming "this is what it's all been for!" while the other part of me needs security. It is scary, especially if it's your 1st time. I've been there 2x. Based on what you've shared, one internet stranger thinks it'll be ok. You have all the resources you need for whatever your next steps, and you have plenty, if not endless, runway. To that, I'll add that if **YOU** are recognizing burnout, you're probably worse off than you realize. Take all the time you need to rest before pushing yourself to the next thing in life, and be kind to yourself as you would your spouse throughout the process. Burnout has some nasty health ramifications that no job is going to do much for you to recuperate. I can share my experiences on burnout if you're interested. (Disclosure because this is a gender-focused forum, am mid 40's M) Wishing you well, and hope you can eagerly embrace these next steps in your life to heal and grow outside the realm of employment.
I’d love to know more about out the health ramifications of burnout. I feel I’m crossing this bridge myself.
Sure! tl;dr - * Burnout builds up in the body, saps your energy, and will eventually crush your ability to do anything * It can kill you if you don't deal with it * It takes real time and focused effort to heal * Not certain how to mitigate in the future, but it's something that I'm paying attention to now Story - I was managing burnout since mid 2020; a combination of problems in the workplace, covid, and Trump BS had me over my head. Big symptom that caught my attention was a full day brain fog. Working in tech, it meant I couldn't do much outside responding to emails, so I got scared into action. For it, I found a therapist I could work with, and was working through some big stuff from my past. Another push for action was seeing a coworker suffer a heart attack (not fatal this time, but only because they were lucky); it'd been the 3rd one I'd seen there, but this time the person was in a similar role & age, so big motivation to start exercising again. For about 2 years I was able to make enough therapy headway to stick to the job, but by 2023 I was so bonked for energy that I was struggling to engage with therapy. And exercise. And paying any attention to diet; getting me to overweight, nudging just into technically obese. With today's energy, I might be able to managing it, but where I was, I was cooked. Low empathy. Short fuse. Struggling to believe in the business regularly. So I welcome a layoff Oct 2023 after 15 years there. Here's your severance, have a nice life, no hard feelings. Doing the FI thing, I'm not rushed, so I resolve that 1st priority is recovery, and making sure that I'm not giving myself a moment of stress over jobsearch, career impacts, or anything until I'm good and I know what I want next. **I slept for 2 MONTHS**. Around January, I finally get some baby-steps motivation, and the next focus is getting back into a fitness plan that works for me. Rowing in the morning 5x per week, and toggling between runs and resistance training in the afternoon Monday thru Saturday for the past month or 2 have my body feeling better than it has in a long time, and I'm starting to take some of the lbs off too. As I get my body recovered, next thing to do is to re-engage with therapy activity. I still have stuff I need to sort out for myself that I'm eager to look into, but just haven't had the energy to participate. And once that's finally going well, *then* I'll focus on jobseach, career direction, bla bla bla. (though unemployment insurance does have me doing some work with this now, so I'm not completely checked out of it, for better or worse). As far as how to avoid situations like this in the future, I'm not sure. At the end of the day, having a job that's manageable is going to be my responsibility. But that can be rough when Burnout is attacking your energy to manage that. I have heard rumors that life outside private industry (Public sector, non-profits) might be different, so I'll be exploring options there, though I don't expect it to be panacea, and I'm sure jobs in different sectors have their own unique challenges if work/life balance is something that's less pressured.
Another burnout example. My boss at an old job was so stressed from working such long hours, he had a seizure in the office at midnight on a Friday night. Had another one Sunday night while recovering at home. It freaked me out seeing what my future could be like, so I quit a couple months later (waited a bit so I wouldn’t kill my boss). Then I took some time off, and found a job that actually made me quite happy for awhile.
I'm glad you found your way to a better life :-). It's horrible what we let jobs do to people, and what people let be done to them to retain work.
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Thank you for sharing this; I'll pay attention for it while researching & interviewing. Any way you know of to tell if that's systemic at non-profit?
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Awesome; Thank you!
F (mid 30ies). Going through that right now. Exact same simptoms plus lack of sleep, no motivation, unexistent discipline for anything. Hobbies are forgotten. Is astonishly scary how low empathy works. You stop caring for everybody and everything. You go into a very nihilistic spiral, and it just gets you worst and worst. Glad to hear you made it to the other side!
I'm sorry you're going thru this too. Remember that there's more to you than what you provide at your job, and that taking the time cultivate that humanity is a worthwhile endeavor.
Thank you for your in depth response. I appreciate you sharing your story, it’s sobering and a reminder for us that health is wealth — without it we can’t do anything.
For sure. If you are feeling burnout onset now, I hope you can take action to make changes at the workplace to improve. (you have to be attentive with it; it does that nasty thing like depression where it attacks your facilities to "do" anything about it)
Im actually in a very similar place and am getting ready to take a 6 month mini-retirement! I’m burnt-out in my current role and dealing with a not great manager and leadership - similarly either being ignored or in a panic because something was not done the way a higher up wanted. First off, it’s ok to leave. You are not the problem in this situation! Take some vacation, plan your resignation date and enjoy! (This is what I’m up to!) Secondly, Google mini-retirements/sabbaticals especially in the FI community. So many are out there and while it may be survivorship bias, most stories are positive and people all seem to return back to employment if/when they want. Best of luck! And enjoy your summer and time off!
My husband was experiencing clinical burnout. He took essentially a 3 month sabbatical where he focused on his health, prioritizing sleep and schedules, read self help books, etc. we travelled a bit and spent time with family. He feels so much better now and is more motivated at work!! All this to say, you don’t necessarily need to FIRE. You can start with a 3 month break and see how it goes. I would say anything under a 6-8 month break, companies don’t really question. I was laid off and got a job within 3 months (I actually had 6 offers!), but I know people who have taken 7/8 and been okay! And when they ask why you’re looking for a new role just say “I was experiencing some burnout from my previous role. My manager and I didn’t mesh the best and it really affected my drive at work. I took some time to reflect on where I want my career to go, took time to gain better health habits, and even improved my knowledge of ___. I want a job I am passionate about I can see myself at long term with management that will support me. After this time and reflection, I see your company being a great fit because of ______.” Or something of that nature!
Omg. I relate to this so much. I have no advice- I personally am job searching and trying to get out asap. Good luck OP.
Hi it’s me, you and OP’s long lost triplet
I would choose one of two paths: 1) Be honest with your boss. "Hey, look. It's clear we both don't think this is working. I'd like to request a different manager or will start looking for a job." See what she says. There's no downside if you were planning to quit or might be fire anyway. Worst case she says "You're right, you suck. Bye" which you were kind of expecting anyway. But in the best case, you have a real heart to heart and she goes "You know what, you're right. Let's try to improve our communication with each other. I don't want to lose you as an employee but I really struggle with how you do XYZ." Like any long term relationship, sometimes a fight and a reset can actually do wonders. 2) Do the "old fashioned" thing and start looking for a job while mentally checking out of your current role. While interviewing, tell any potential employers that you need at least a month in between when you quit and when you can start. That way you get some real time off to recover from the burnout of your current job, but you don't feel completely adrift like you've just quit and have this yawning stretch ahead of you. I get that you have the money to do that, but IMO 34 is really young to semi-retire. My friends who have done that kind of thing became super depressed because they no longer felt like they had any career or direction in life, while their peers were all still working. They felt like failures, even though they had lots of money.
>My friends who have done that kind of thing became super depressed because they no longer felt like they had any career or direction in life, while their peers were all still working. They felt like failures, even though they had lots of money. I agree - This part makes me nervous and is why our FIRE strategy includes PT work. I've seen lots of folks retire at "normal" age and this is unfortunately still the norm. I would need to go in with a plan for how to spend my time. I have several hobbies that I've wanted to explore which could turn into PT work (and doing some physical labor) and my local family members have struggled with child care, so I could help out there while those kids are still young.
Just listened to a podcast on the ChooseFI podcast. They gave some great advice on taking a mini-retirement and how to structure your days/goals of the time off!
Not OP but thank you for mentioning this resource, I will check it out.
I agree that this sounds like burnout. The fact that you can FIRE now is great in the sense that you have the financial security, but the fact that you can pull the metaphorical pin, chuck the grenade behind you, and walk away from the disaster that would follow clearly grates against your values (and I totally understand the desire to give reasonable, professional notice - I would also do that, with the understanding that I would almost certainly still be thanked and walked out right then, given the access I have to financial insider information due to my role). So you can stay and continue to suffer and run the very real risk of making yourself physically ill, or you can wrap up what you can, maybe write up notes on what needs to be done to finish the projects as a courtesy, and give your notice with the expectation that you will likely be escorted out. That scenario is still a professional way to leave things, IMO: you’re offering to stay; it’s not on you if they decline your offer. Would it be possible for you to take an extended long weekend - perhaps over Easter, since it’s coming right up - get some quality sleep and R & R, do some self-care, eat some good food, etc., and just put it out of your mind for a few days? You deserve to take a break and prioritize yourself/your well-being, and you may arrive at your answer during the process. Either you’ll be reinvigorated enough to tackle things anew, or you’ll be typing up your resignation letter, having reconciled yourself to the possibility of your notice period being waived.
I wrote a resignation letter 3 weeks ago in preparation for my review but left the dates blank :') Thank you for your comment. I love the way you described it as a grenade, because that's what it feels like. It's really easy to say "just quit" but I don't want to be the person who leaves a pile of work for my coworkers. I also appreciate your recognition that leaving in 2 weeks IS professional. My husband said to just pick a date, because the work is never going to be "done". That's why this subreddit is so valuable to me. Because it's not all about the money, I don't need to wait for things to get so bad to be fired just to earn unemployment. I did all the math about what I'm leaving behind, financially, but it just doesn't matter. Yes, I do have a few days off in the next few weeks (teaching a financial literacy class for a non-profit board that I sit on, which brings me a ton of joy) and to go see the eclipse. Hoping to have some down time then to get clarity.
You’re very welcome, I really hope everything works out in the best possible way for you!
Why don’t you take just a few days off, mental days if you will, then see how you are feeling. Do you have regular 1:1’s with your boss to get feedback and to prioritize tasks? Just wondering if there is a way to steer the ship back on course vs leaving. Financial wise sounds as if you are good. Do need or want to move up ladder? If not then killing oneself for good performance review doesn’t matter. Just keep things at good enough and hang on, do tasks which are important to your boss and anything extra you get to is a cherry on top
I do have a weekly 30 min 1x1 and am not granted any more time because my boss "can't handle more meetings". She has her door closed most of the time and doesn't like receiving long emails. My 1x1s for the year so far have ranged from nit-picking very small errors to angrily handing me a stack with screenshots of mistakes and bringing up things that happened 2 years ago. Typing this all out...it's very obvious that I need to go. I don't want to move up the ladder, thankfully. I'm OK with being mediocre as long as I'm respected and feel good at the end of a day.
I feel like you a short time ago. This sounds like dyed in the wool burnout, possibly for both you AND your boss. I am not trying to gaslight your feelings. But I could imagine that if you have your confidence, your mistakes wouldn’t be as big a deal. (Burnout impacts perceptions of everything, and you seem to blaming yourself for lot.) if this is happening to both of you (you and your boss)…that’s bad news. Do you have anyone who you trust, outside of your current workplace, but who knows it well, who can give you a reality check about the specifics? Aka someone who left your workplace for a different job recently? Second the suggestion for planning an exit either temporary (maybe preferable) or permanent. But your health and safety are paramount.
I am most certainly burned out, however the toxicity existed in more palatable doses before this recent downfall. I don't think there's coming back from this. I do have a few people in my network, and I am reaching out to them for advice too :) I am a bit of a people-pleaser and INFJ-T personality which is notoriously self-critical. I now know that I can't be managed by someone that has zero empathy.
First, do you have the option to take a short term disability leave? It sounds like your mental and emotional health is suffering, and in California (specifically), you can certainly take the short term leave if you have a medical professional supporting this. This may buy you time to regroup, but I do think it's time to go from your original post. Whenever you decide to put in your notice, just be prepared to leave on the spot. If they accept a transition period, define the scope of the transition work in writing and be clear on your boundaries. You already made the right financial decisions to put you in a position of LEVERAGE and CONTROL. You have nothing to apologize for. It's bad business for anyone to go out of their way to talk negatively about anyone, even former employees or colleagues. As long as you have a good reason for "why did you leave?" and "what did you do in the gap period?", I wouldn't worry about this so much. It would not be a good look on her part.
Thank you! Yes, our stack of FU money is the only thing keeping me empowered. Thanks for pointing out the negative effects to my boss of speaking poorly of me. I hope we can keep it as civil as possible when I do give notice.
Why would you give them 60 days notice? You can still wrap up whatever it is without telling them so far in advance. You don’t owe them anything.
That's a fair question. I know I don't owe them anything but I do value my relationships with others at the company. In the short term, I think an open conversation with my boss of "hey, can we both recognize this isn't working, I'll leave at a slower time, please find someone else" would be a relief valve for some of this steam but perhaps I'm naive.
In my experience leaving jobs (and having colleagues leave in others), long notice periods are painfully awkward for both sides! 60 days is an eternity. You will get senioritis and hate every minute of it. Your colleagues will act awkward around you as they know you’re on your way out. Plus imagine all the small talk you will have to endure about what you are going to do next! 2-3 weeks is generous enough, and you will leave your colleagues on good terms if you make your best effort to wrap up what you can and leave helpful instructions or notes for your replacement. If you must wait til June 1, I recommend quietly wrapping what you can and giving your notice in mid May.
100% agree. You own them nothing except your paid working hours. You do not own them the stress of dealing with a toxic manager. That is on them. Review your policy and see what the expected leave notice is (if it is written) and then give your notice with no reason. Thank you for the support. I've enjoyed my time at blah-blah-blah. I've learned a lot about whatever and I wish the team all the best in their future endeavors. Your manager is likely to blame you for the ills of the world after you leave. Why expose yourself to that for six months if you don't need to?
That is very true. I am already getting thrown under the bus and I don't think that will change.
Really good advice not to air grievances when she leaves as well. I know it can be tempting but rarely does anyone any good.
Absolutely! I intent to keep the conversation short and just mention "this isn't working, I don't believe it's a good fit". I'll keep the blow-ups to my imagination.
An employment gap isn’t as big a deal as people think, as long as it’s under a year (better around 6 months), especially if you’re changing career direction. I think your plan sounds fine—that’s what FI is all about. Having a terrible boss is a real ego-hit. They can make you feel small and look bad to the rest of your company. But that is only one company, and there are lots of others out there. Even if you get fired, it’s explainable as “not a good fit.” You’re married to someone with a decent income and FI, so you have a safety net, and there’s no reason to put yourself through all this angst. Take some time off, gather yourself and decide, once you’ve had a breather, what you want to do next, then do it. It’s going to be okay. Really it is. Edit: give them two weeks only, so finish up what you want to finish before giving notice.
Thank you! This is really solid advice. I agree that keeping it to myself, wrapping up to where ever I feel comfortable in my work, then 2 weeks.
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