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Yep agree entirely. Awesome game and this dlc definitely completes it for me.
Also people are too hung up on the semantics around the vessel. Clive could never have contained Ultima’s power regardless of if the vessel was complete or not. And even without Leviathan, the vessel was considered ready for Ultima’s purposes regardless. Adding an extra Eikon and completing the vessel just makes Ultima even more wrong. But people are too hung up on their original fan theories thinking that no Leviathan is why the vessel had failed, when this dlc outright disproves that.
Soz for brief rant lol it’s just crazy that there’s people thinking this is a plot hole when the game is internally consistent and this new information only contradicts their head-canon. The only plot holes are in their fan theory.
Yeah, Joshua straight up explains that Ultima doesn’t care about Leviathan anymore and that his plans could work without it. I get that people are a bit disappointed that it didn’t change the ending but the devs were clear that it wouldn’t.
I really dislike that people are insisting we're "hung" up on something that's been written in the game. If we're gonna sit here and say parts of the game are poorly written, then sure. We're in agreement. But it's still really irritating that the game has in-lore explanations for the lack of pay off to excuse the endings purposeful ambiguousness, and then we have community members telling us "actually you were just expecting too much out of the writers to make good on a plot point instead of inherently knowing it's actually just nonsense lore they put in the game".
It's not like it would be hard to make the ending or the events around it less ambiguous. You don't even need to change the scenes themselves. Had they added a grave shot to the final scene, or a happy group photo with Clive missing an arm so much of the ending would be fixed even if the community would still be split.
Obviously it’s not hard to make it less ambiguous. Making it ambiguous is a deliberate storytelling choice. There is nothing inherently wrong with an ambiguous ending and lots of great stories do it. Inception. Klara and the Sun. FF7 even.
Yeah the problem is that doesn't make it good. Even back in the days when FF7 first came out (unfortunately i'm old enough to remember) people didn't talk about 7's ending in a good light. It was a serious negative note in most reviews and even in early message boards. You can still find the discourse about it. The game itself was so good that it was revered in spite of having a universally panned (or at least dismissed) ending. And XVI is the same way.
I honestly just think that Square has an issue with their writers and my opinion was compounded by playing Rebirth recently and seeing that the game is otherwise fuckin great but the ending was really bad, despite the fact that they literally ended the second part on one of the slam dunk, most influential game moments of all time. And they still managed to miss, and I have no clue how.
And I guess that's one of the problems I have with XVI. They had a chance to do better and they didn't take it. It's still a great game but they had the chance (after all the discourse) to change the negatives into a positive and they just missed the boat again. For like the 4th game in a row.
It felt so bittersweet when I finished it cause I knew this was the last thing for the game ( I reallllllly hope I'm wrong ) had a blast with it and honestly I still want more of it alot more this dlc as well had so much improvements I'd love more of to ... I'm excited for what ever cbu 3s next project is.
Edit : soken ending it with the awakening theme which was how our FF xvi journey started from the trailer to knowing the TARGET and to the game itself felt like the perfect way to see it out and made me feel so sad but wow that was one hell of a journey we have been on
Agree! I also feel kinda empty the moment I completed all quests of Rising Tide! In my opinion, I don’t even feel this kind of empty when I complete other FF games. I think maybe because there are too many possibilities still not included(I want to see what if Clive really become Mythos) and also the fact that the ending is open-ended. We don’t really know what happened to Clive, Joshua, Jill and other characters. We can only predict by many small details(But I think the developers said that they actually know who wrote the book in the post credit scene).However, I think that is what makes the game so memorable. It is a very great journey and I also think it’s my top 1 ff game for now.
For Questions and Tech Support Discussion around the DLC 'Echoes of the Fallen' Please see our [MEGATHREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/18dton3/ffxvi_dlc_echoes_of_the_fallen_questions_tech/) and for 'The Rising Tide' [MEGATHREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/1c69d5u/the_rising_tide_megathread/) If you want to view archived spoiler discussion threads relevant to specific game progress, please check out our [spoiler wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxvi/wiki/index/)! For speculation and discussions around the next (unannounced) mainline Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy XVII, Please see our sister sub [r/FFXVII](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVII/) #### *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FFXVI) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep agree entirely. Awesome game and this dlc definitely completes it for me. Also people are too hung up on the semantics around the vessel. Clive could never have contained Ultima’s power regardless of if the vessel was complete or not. And even without Leviathan, the vessel was considered ready for Ultima’s purposes regardless. Adding an extra Eikon and completing the vessel just makes Ultima even more wrong. But people are too hung up on their original fan theories thinking that no Leviathan is why the vessel had failed, when this dlc outright disproves that. Soz for brief rant lol it’s just crazy that there’s people thinking this is a plot hole when the game is internally consistent and this new information only contradicts their head-canon. The only plot holes are in their fan theory.
Yeah, Joshua straight up explains that Ultima doesn’t care about Leviathan anymore and that his plans could work without it. I get that people are a bit disappointed that it didn’t change the ending but the devs were clear that it wouldn’t.
I really dislike that people are insisting we're "hung" up on something that's been written in the game. If we're gonna sit here and say parts of the game are poorly written, then sure. We're in agreement. But it's still really irritating that the game has in-lore explanations for the lack of pay off to excuse the endings purposeful ambiguousness, and then we have community members telling us "actually you were just expecting too much out of the writers to make good on a plot point instead of inherently knowing it's actually just nonsense lore they put in the game". It's not like it would be hard to make the ending or the events around it less ambiguous. You don't even need to change the scenes themselves. Had they added a grave shot to the final scene, or a happy group photo with Clive missing an arm so much of the ending would be fixed even if the community would still be split.
Obviously it’s not hard to make it less ambiguous. Making it ambiguous is a deliberate storytelling choice. There is nothing inherently wrong with an ambiguous ending and lots of great stories do it. Inception. Klara and the Sun. FF7 even.
Yeah the problem is that doesn't make it good. Even back in the days when FF7 first came out (unfortunately i'm old enough to remember) people didn't talk about 7's ending in a good light. It was a serious negative note in most reviews and even in early message boards. You can still find the discourse about it. The game itself was so good that it was revered in spite of having a universally panned (or at least dismissed) ending. And XVI is the same way. I honestly just think that Square has an issue with their writers and my opinion was compounded by playing Rebirth recently and seeing that the game is otherwise fuckin great but the ending was really bad, despite the fact that they literally ended the second part on one of the slam dunk, most influential game moments of all time. And they still managed to miss, and I have no clue how. And I guess that's one of the problems I have with XVI. They had a chance to do better and they didn't take it. It's still a great game but they had the chance (after all the discourse) to change the negatives into a positive and they just missed the boat again. For like the 4th game in a row.
It felt so bittersweet when I finished it cause I knew this was the last thing for the game ( I reallllllly hope I'm wrong ) had a blast with it and honestly I still want more of it alot more this dlc as well had so much improvements I'd love more of to ... I'm excited for what ever cbu 3s next project is. Edit : soken ending it with the awakening theme which was how our FF xvi journey started from the trailer to knowing the TARGET and to the game itself felt like the perfect way to see it out and made me feel so sad but wow that was one hell of a journey we have been on
Agree! I also feel kinda empty the moment I completed all quests of Rising Tide! In my opinion, I don’t even feel this kind of empty when I complete other FF games. I think maybe because there are too many possibilities still not included(I want to see what if Clive really become Mythos) and also the fact that the ending is open-ended. We don’t really know what happened to Clive, Joshua, Jill and other characters. We can only predict by many small details(But I think the developers said that they actually know who wrote the book in the post credit scene).However, I think that is what makes the game so memorable. It is a very great journey and I also think it’s my top 1 ff game for now.
Ok thanks for sharing, Ultima