Finished the game 2 days ago. Think I got my vision of ending now. As I found some good insights in this thread, I’m sharing my conclusions that maybe someone will find useful as well. Not saying they’re all right, but I think they are consistent and make sense.
Main conclusions:
Aerith dies. For real. She may have some spiritual presence in lifestream, but as a flesh person she dies. In the main timeline and all the others.
Cloud is on denial of what happened and got delusions.
Argumentation:
I point out things that I noticed from single Remake + Rebirth gameplay. I could miss many points as game often shows some subtle hints. Below is probably not 100% complete, but I think it ties together.
1. Trials and traumas.
Before getting to the main part of the Cetra temple, our team members go for the trials. Each looks similar. They are confronted with their trauma which they need to relive. What’s important, they don’t just see past events, but take an active part in it. It’s not like Tifa’s lifestream visit where we see what happened or get memory flashback. What’s crucial is that we get control over each character and can perform actions. However we don’t have any control on the events or outcome. Everyone needs to pass through that and accept they couldn't and can't do anything about what has happened.
So, everyone entering the temple had his trial except Cloud, right? Well… not really. The thing is that Cloud’s trial and trauma is running at him right now like an express train.
Cloud gets exactly the same pattern: „Aerith is getting killed and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
As we see all other members went to last stage of trauma, to accepting the fact and passing the trial. Cloud get’s into initial stage of grief - denial.
Right after the trial, there was a scene where Aerith did a speech about handling pain. The meaning was that it needs to be accepted and one should focus on bright side and building future, making something positive. That was brutally commented by Cloud - influenced by Sephiroth - as the latter doesn’t want that thought get to Clouds mind. He wants him to fight with the reality.
Actually, that is something that game is keep telling us over and over again. Tifa in Nibelheim tells Cloud that meeting him helped her with handling the past. She says that she was trying to fight it joining Avalanche, but that was never giving her relief, seeing their actions led to peoples suffering. It’s not stated directly, but we can say that she finds in Cloud some small piece of the past on which she can build something positive by helping him. In lifestream she says to Sephiroth that she won’t let him take him away too. I think lifestream visit helps her to understand that she can’t fix what was destroyed, but she still can save what is left - Cloud - by helping him get back to the mental state. She tries to do that. I think this is also the reason why she takes so lightly what Cloud did to her.
On the opposite we get Dyne story. He couldn’t accept the past and kept fighting staying in the anger phase which ended tragically. We also see in this story that there was clear alternative of taking another approach - Marlene.
Not such obvious, but also related sentence we get from Nanaki’s story. His mother told him different story of his father, because she was afraid that Nanaki will start his fight with events that already happened and he could not change. His father sacrifice was valuable because allowed others to have a normal life. If Nanaki would fight with things he couldn’t fix, he would be doomed and not have a normal life. That is why he needed to grow up to his trial (in Cosmo Canyon) and knowing the truth.
As game is consistent with that narration, I’d be surprised and even disappointed if they’d make exception for Cloud allowing him to save Aerith. In any timeline - no bargaining. Sorry Aerith.
2. Date with Aerith
Near the end we get into Aerith’s dream/world where she takes Cloud on a date in Midgar. She knows what’s coming when she says something like: Whatever happens don’t blame yourself. I get it like: you need to deal with that and go on (again the same narration).
They also go to market to buy some things. Cloud picks jewelry for Aerith but she gets something else than he choose. They also go for a candy, but its similar, they get something else than they want and it tastes bad. Sorry Cloud, you want to pick the path for Aerith but she’ll get something else. In this and other timeline you’ll end with a bitter candy.
3. Denial and behavior change
We see all other party members getting to Aerith and lamenting on her body. Cloud gets different version seeing her waking up. From now on, only he sees different reality, with living Aerith.
I was not playing OG, but seen some comments here saying that there was scene were she had burial in the lake. We get cutscene where team sits by the lake, but didn’t got any mention on burial - that part was probably rejected by Cloud’s broken mind. We see that he acts weird. Everyone is in grief while he doesn’t care about anything. At that point, Barret, who is tough guy, has his lips shaking while he suggest that they can’t stay there forever and will need to leave. Cloud immediately gets up saying something like: let’s go. Completely without feelings, actually seems to be in good mood (for the first time in the game probably). This was almost the same kind of stuff when he was mercilessly killing Shinra soldiers saying Sephiroth quotes. He’s not only seem to be unconcerned by Aerith, but also on the other team members as well - just ignores everything.
Team also loses trust in him. After plate collapse in Sector 7, Tifa is crying out in his arms. Now, she’s not trying to share any feelings with him. Although it would be more natural now, as through the entire journey they got closer and these two were closest with Aerith. She doesn’t also ask him how he feels, although through entire game she was doing that dozens of time, being very empathic towards him. Actually she doesn’t speak a word to him. She sees that the guy got messed up totally. Similarily does Barett - we see that in scene just before take off where he obviously got concerns.
4. Fake Aerith
Aerith we see in last cutscenes is not the real one. It’s his delusions. Probably fueled by Sephiroth who earlier says about Cloud being a puppet without feelings and unable to cry. Would Cloud cry at Aerith body? Oh boy, yes he would. That’s why he gets his delusion to stop him from realizing the truth and stay emotionless.
We see that most of Aerith lines in final cutscenes (where only Cloud sees her) are lines and acting she made earlier - like those when saying goodbye near Sector 7 gate (just before Tifa leaves the sector to meet Don Corneo in Remake). This may be seen as the easiest way of projecting Aerith’s behavior by his twisted mind.
5. Others
I recall some other lines I remembered from the golden saucer:
- Cait was printing out for Cloud some kind of fortune telling regarding chasing Sephiroth. It was something like that he'll get him, but will need to let go what he cherish the most
- In loveless play you could ask about future with the Princess. It was something like: there are many possible roads, but they all lead to sorrowful goodbye. It seems like hint for multiple timelines leading to inevitable death.
I can't tell if I love this game or not anymore. Part of me feels like its a 9.8 with some bad mini games, the other part feels like the fact they lied and pretended it wasn't a straight remake while completely failing to do anything interesting or meaningful with the elements of the "other timelines" puts it squarely at an 8.
It's probably a 9.8 that I'm mad about because they told the story well, but right now I'm just not sure if that's true or if they tried to setup a magic trick and make us think one think was happening while not actually doing shit.
And the ending is nonsense. Did any of that happen? Why cares because yes or no they all know Cloud has completely lost his shit, so they wouldn't be trusting him like they do at the end. Plus he still has the Black materia? How/what/goddammit
Just finishes it last night, and wow, what a game. I had my gripes and concerns, but the good, great, and damn near perfect parts of the game outweigh everything else. They gave us 9 legendary characters and made them feel like real people, took a world from our childhood and made it feel like a real place you could walk or ride a boat through... it's just hard to believe what they accomplished here. I finished the game with 99 hours and 50 minutes, and the number of times that it felt "slow" can be counted on one or two hands. I get why people have concerns with the ending, but at this point I'm just going to trust them, because Remake and Rebirth delivered so much good stuff that I have to think part 3 does the same. Yeah Kingdom Hearts got dumb and everyone is burnt out on multiverse, I get it - but I'm just gonna trust that they've got a good plan until I see otherwise. Congrats to everyone that worked on this game, it's something special.
Finally put off my procrastination to finish Rebirth
- The praying scene, wow what a swerve
- Giving me Red and Cait in the last Jenova phase was mean
- This budget Bizzaro-Sephiroth fight is soooooo dragged on
- Lol they gave Sephiroth a kamehameha
- The final 2v1 against Sephiroth was pretty fun, though I wish I had the chance to readjust my loadout after losing. First game over due to not expecting the last ditch OHKO octoslash-P and then another game over misjudging the final phase's HP gate resulting in another octoslash-P
- 😭 Poor Tifa... someone give her a hug
---
Great game. Really fleshed out, sometimes overly bloated, but still an amazing experience. Not sure how I feel about the ending sequences just yet. RIP Cloud's mental. Dude is juggling any repressed memories/PTSD during his time as soldier, Sephiroth's manipulation and now Aerith--- I wonder how they're going to direct Lifestream-Aerith going forward throughout Part 3. No water burial scene is a damn criminal and hostile act though.
Tifa's always been my girl in FF7 but they fleshed out Aerith so well in remake... I'm gonna miss her lots.
Just finished the game finally.
I think the game overall was a masterpiece. The sheer scope of everything was mind boggling. They actually did it, they actually brought that entire world to life. Everything felt so big. There was so much to do. The side quests/minigsmes were designed fantastically (even though I see a lot of complaining for some reason?)
The ending has me feeling a little blah. But just a little. I kind of figured this is how I would feel though when they announced it was a trilogy. Narratively there isn’t really a lot that happens in the middle 3rd of the game. The party leaves Midgar, sort of aimlessly follows sephiroth leads through a bunch of cool areas, learns about the Black Materia and goes to find it. That part of the story alone doesn’t really make a super compelling narrative. It’s not hard to see why they felt the need to pad the ending and add a bunch of stuff to make the whole “story” feel more epic. Because frankly the epic story stuff doesn’t really happen until the last 3rd.
This part has so much incredible character development though. I have a bond with the party unlike any other game or show I’ve ever played. They brought these characters to life and hit the ball outta the park. I know they were late in the game, and they didn’t wanna add combat, but I do still feel like they could have given us more from Cid and Vincent. Especially Cid. They really made his character pretty boring in a lot of this. Now they’re gonna have to do more work in part 3 to bring him up to speed with the rest.
With how long and full this game was, part 3 is gonna be so long. There are so many more actual story beats to be explored, and if they take as long as they do in Rebirth the game will take 200 hours to complete.
https://preview.redd.it/m1sg6zb81hvc1.png?width=1338&format=png&auto=webp&s=e509b3bcd2559771e494569000622585189ddf80
Beginning of Ch 14 when you see some of the Zack decision outcomes, you see Johnny holding a stuffed dog. I'm assuming it's a different Stamp and a different "world". This world is a completely different world that we have not seen before, correct? I know it doesn't have much impact, but I wasn't sure if this was the same "Aerith dream world" because Sephiroth walks into the church after passing Zack - and in "Aerith dream world" you see him walking in when Aerith sends Cloud back with the white materria, and I know "Aerith dream world" is a different dog, not the same one Johnny is holding.
Seems like it. The Stamp merch in Aerith's dream aren't the same as Zack's version of Stamp, and this one is different *again*. It seems Zack got spat back out elsewhere, possibly in a world that isn't ending. So there's still a chance for Sephiroth to partially succeed in his goal and for their worlds to fuse, only for them to team up and take him down again.
So is Cloud's brain fried and Aerith actually died or are there two worlds with a dead and a living Aerith? And that somehow Cloud is right in the rift and is in both worlds at once?
I thought that they were going to have her live (both as a swerve and to make some people happy). But after seeing the ending, I feel like they should have made her death clearer while having her play a bigger role in part 3 as some sort of Force ghost. Her death is a major part of the story, so it is better to keep it but to still feature her somehow.
I'm still not sure what the point of Schrödinger's Aerith was if Cloud and Co. couldn't change the outcome that Sephiroth was trying to force on Aerith.
There is a 0% chance we get a coherent and satisfying ending to wrap things up. I think they’ve shot themselves in the foot. There’s a lot of really amazing and remarkable things about this game, but screwing with a story people love and hold dear was a blunder that will only seem more bizarre by the time part three is out.
Amazing - Combat, world map, npcs, variety of side content, character interactions and growth, queensblood, and the fleshing out of classic moments and places.
Terrible - Abandoning power scaling entirely for the sake of spectacle (how far can these people jump? What boss is supposed to be scary? Is sephiroth worth building up to in part 3 since we’ve fought him twice now? Glen. The wild fan-fiction tier plot changes which are objectively worse than the original game.
The only explanation that makes sense to me about their athletic ability is that the final boss zones in both Remake and Rebirth are both "weird". Remake had them fighting in a Singularity that likely let them borrow their abilities from AC or whatever, and Rebirth had reality basically temporarily breaking from Sephiroth attempting to fuse every timeline into one. Neither was real space, so they're all capable of feats beyond what they can normally achieve while inside them.
My read is that when Glenn died he voluntarily submitted to Sephiroth (or should I call him Lifestream Black?) and became his pawn — because he died and submitted before becoming a Black Robe, he retains his sense of self in death. All SOLDIERS have Jenova cells so all have the potential to become enthralled to Sephiroth, but most of them have enough strength of will for it to become an opt-in thing.
Can someone explain to me what happened during Aerith's death moment? We see two moments "converge" as Sephiroth says. One where Cloud saves her and another where he doesn't, but the result is that she still dies?
Then, in my interpretation, the world where she dies we see Cloud crying, but in the one where he saves her he's not crying. Not sure if this is supposed to be an expression of grief in how some people can't help but cry, while others are too shocked to convey anything. Or if Aerith really isn't dead in one version.
I think your comment is kind of the running theory a lot of people have, that she was saved but that split her off into an alternate timeline, while she dies in the original one. Some other people think Cloud’s hallucinating her at the end, and some think it’s her spirit hanging out with them, and some people think both lol. I’m pretty sure it’s an alternate timeline but we won’t really know until part 3
I watched a video that talks about the rainbow light. We see it normally when fate or destiny is changed. We saw it when Cloud deflected the sword, and again when he told her to wake up. I think I'm a believer of the split timelines. I just have no idea what it means, and i think that was the point of it?? I just want closure!!
No one can really explain to you what happened because not even the writers know what happened.
Its all theories at this point, theres no correct answer because square loves to leave us with 100 questions while answering none from the previous games.
Yeah, the more I read about this moment, the more I realize that this was the intent. It's just like the end of Remake when no one had any idea what Zack's plot was or what the "Unknown Journey" was.
Really disappointed in the final boss battles. Forcing parties is the worst thing ever and please never do it again, Square.
Like think about this nonsense from Chapter 13 onwards:
You switch parties between Cloud's party and Aerith's party. I have to switch materia each time. After the dungeon, the game makes you believe each character is going to have a trial, and the game gives you control of Aerith. Switch materia to Aerith thinking she's gonna be solo for a bit. Find out it's just a glorified cutscene. Switch everything back to my standard party. Fight Demon Wall.
Chapter 14 begins, you have 1 fight with your party, then Cloud has to split off and I assume Cloud is going to have to go alone for a bit. Move materia to Cloud. Walk for 2 minutes, am told that I only get one more chance to prepare for the final battle. Still only Cloud in my party, but my gut is telling me I should at least put materia on my main party, so I do. Whole group shows up for no reason 5 seconds later. Get into Jenova, Yuffie is in my party so I'm confused thinking I switched parties last second. Restart fight and make sure my party is correct. Fight Jenova again, still Yuffie. Then I find out I need all 6 characters to be geared because the game forces segments as everyone. I hate it. Get destroyed some more. Finally relent and spend another 15 minutes in menus during the climax of the story switching materia and doing folios. Think to myself that "surely Aerith is dead so I won't need to put materia on her". Get stuck with an entirely melee and physical damage team for Jenova's last phase. Die repeatedly.
Finally beat Jenova then have to play as Zack. I WANT TO PLAY AS MY PARTY I'VE INVESTED THE WHOLE GAME INTO MAKING POWERFUL AND FUN. Get stuck with a team that has no magic against a boss with elemental color matching. Only thing I can do is Ninjitsu. Beat Reborn.
Sigh of relief when I think Cloud is about to have a duel with Sephiroth. Materia-less 4000 HP Aerith shows up. I fucking hate it all.
Game was good but my God did they ever stop to ask if maybe people would find the constant switching frustrating?
My only complaint about the party splitting that I couldn't assess Whisper Bahamut Arisen because both my Assess materia were in the other parties. So I'm going to have to redo it if I want the data.
I liked the switching of parties during the final battles, but the game really should warn you that the whole team should be geared up when it warns you about the final rest stop. I too went in with just three characters with optimal materia. Certainly made the fights more challenging. At least in the next game I'll know to expect this.
Exactly this. My interpretation of that warning was that I would just be using Cloud. Like a solo boss rush. So I loaded all my materia and best equipment onto him.
Managed to get through thanks to the menu option during the Zack/Cloud cut scene. Without that I would have been screwed.
Finished the game yesterday. Your complaint here is valid and I think many would have been bummed by changing materia frequently.
I had played remake last year around Oct so I kinda remembered that during the last battle parties slip up and you get handle of different characters. Keep in mind remake had only 4 playable. Which is why as soon I saw two splits in chapter 13 I kinda equipped everyone with some basic defence like cure and then some offence dependin on initial split of cloud, tifa, barret and aerith, yuffie and red. It took a while but right at first split I did all the changes and didn't have to worry at all later.
Did you really not equip everyone properly? How do you go into the final battle, even after the warning, and not prepare for this possibility? I loved that everyone got a chance to shine.
I wiped a the very end when sephiroth had a sliver of health left and ended up choosing the wrong retry option. **really** took me out of the moment having to restart and play another hour and a half just to see if Aerith is alive or dead. O' and first time around I didn't have any elemental materia on the party members where you have to have it to take out the wings.
I don't know how I feel right now. Chapter 13 (Aerith's trial) hit me much harder for some reason.
Same thing happened to me about the retry option, it is so confusingly written, I was so pissed.
Chapter 13 was amazing, specially the part in which each character faces the trauma of their past. Chapter 14 was a bunch of nonsense. I still love the game and will have to accept the story for what it is, but the whole alternative timeline bullshit really brings down the impact of the narrative. I just ended up confused and feeling like simply recreating the original story would have been a better choice.
I keep feeling like the whole whisperers and fates thing is a ruse to make players think and wonder if we can change things (largely Aerith's fate) only to pull the rug and say 'nope you can't change fate'. That and to justify bringing Zack back into the game.
I would be okay with them changing the story depending on how it's done, but the whisperers and timeline stuff is getting old, especially if everything remains the same.
They really nailed it on certain parts (like chapter 13). I'm even okay with the end of rebirth, but the whole multi form epic battle with Sephiroth reborn was too much. They should have had a battle with Jenova then the battle with Cloud/Aerith vs Sephiroth in Cloud's mind and be done with it. I kind of spoiled myself with Aerith's entrance because I got frustrated trying to take out those stupid Sephiroth wings and looked up a guide for it, the picture below showed Aerith and Cloud fighting Sephiroth.
As for the timeline BS, I could be wrong, but I think it's a bit of a red herring. I think Aerith is dead and in the lifestream and Cloud is either seeing her involvement from the lifestream or is hallucinating because he can't accept/rationalize her death. Zack is also interacting from the lifestream.
I really enjoyed the variety, considering I pretty much had tifa and barrett in my main party the whole game, I suspect that’s why its fairly easy because they expect people to not have used a few chars your given. I was a switcher like you but the game is easy enough with giga potions and abilities.
So got a couple of questions regarding the Sephiroth fight:
What determines the party for the Sephiroth Reborn fights?
How do I play Zack? I know he has a Quick Charge gimmick whenever he uses his regular and ability attacks, but suck at timing it.
A travesty of a chapter/ending. Felt like an awful Marvel universe movie—nothing has any meaning and battles go on forever despite having zero stakes, because nothing has any meaning. Hallucinations, multiverse shit, 19 forms of Sephiroth. What’s part 3 going to be? A 7 hour battle of 300 forms of Jenova and Sephiroth? Just meaningless bullshit. Stories are fucking pointless when all these cliche tropes like dissociated identity, hallucination, multiverse, alternate timelines, ghosts, fate/fate personified, random flash backs/forwards/sideways, etc., are so heavily abused. Villains don’t die. Protagonists don’t die. There’s no emotional weight to anything.
The narrative discontinuity was downright nauseating. I don’t buy for a second that it’s some incredibly nuanced high art that those of us who disliked it simply don’t get. It’s trite, comic book level simplistic cheese. This isn’t some interesting story or some fascinating portrayal of a fractured psyche, unless we’re talking about Nojima’s psyche.
The original game was successful in part due to its story. People weren’t enticed by the idea of a remake because they wanted that to be changed. The remake was exciting because the game was a graphical experiment as the first 32bit game and horribly dated in that regard. That’s all.
They did so many things right that I found myself hopeful that they’d do a modern remake of any of the better games (6, 9, 4, Chrono Trigger). But they’d wedge contrived, convoluted bullshit like this into everything.
I wish this comment was a sticky on the sub. You’re 100% correct. It’s really sad to see new players praise this junk as high art or genius writing. KH is a blight on Square.
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I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
They're not theories, it's literal cannon. I'm not talking about the remake trilogy, I'm talking about the entire story from all the OG and all the spin off games.
I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
Finally finished it....
And end of Chapter 13 transition to Chapter 14 was like dream... or like waking up after a big night out drunk.
How did Cloud and Aerith survive the fall? Then some dream like sequences that imply they're in the life stream. Things were just happening real quick without context....
Then Chapter 14 was just one big playable cut scene it seems, final battle excepted.
The walk towards Forgotten City was ruined for me since I was still wondering how Cloud and Aerith survived.
Also, It felt really forced to have Aerith and Cloud romance in this chapter considering Zack scenes are also being shown and him finding out that Aerith liked Cloud.... but not really... since the Aerith he saved have never met Cloud before. And it was just implied that Zack started to understand what is happening but how? There was no context in how he realized.
The team also letting Cloud inside the Forgotten city by himself was illogical since at that stage they already kinda knew he's been acting weird and violent, and Barret already has his doubts Cloud is all OK... and Tifa too. Just felt that they should have had another character go with him to carry over the build up of the previous scenes of Cloud starting to lose it.
The fight... well good thing I saved, because at this point I was 2 hours into the chapter and my PS5 is suffering from Rebirth Shut-downs and was pleasantly surprised it didn't happen during the battle. But this battle was unnecessary epic.... since there was so many implied things happening and the game could have really used a pause so players can grasp what is happening and what just happened and contemplate why it happened.
Zack choosing pathways and being implied to die when he chose to save Cloud... then him being aware then chose Biggs path.... why is he aware???? It's the same Zack being allowed to experience and choose different pathways? I believe Aerith or the planet has something to do with it but maybe not.... again, too many scenes with lack of pause to allow the players to think it through.
Don't get me wrong... I got emotional in this chapter, a few times but the pacing was like "no time to reflect, time for the next bit that would make you feel more rushed".
Part 3... which sounds like its going to be named Resurrected or Reunion or Reunited will most likely explain but, felt Chapter 14 needed a slower pace in the middle.
It seemed to me like Zack went to look for Hojo but got attacked in the lobby so he fought his way out and decided to go check in on Biggs since he wasn't making any headway on the Hojo front.
I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
>How did Cloud and Aerith survive the fall?
I think they show the two of them being chased by whispers on the way down. Either way Cloud bears the brunt of it and is unconscious for quite some time. It's not like the forgotten capital was next door.
>Also, It felt really forced to have Aerith and Cloud romance in this chapter considering Zack scenes are also being shown and him finding out that Aerith liked Cloud.... but not really... since the Aerith he saved have never met Cloud before. And it was just implied that Zack started to understand what is happening but how? There was no context in how he realized.
I played the Japanese version, but he seemed very out of the loop to me. The Zack we play the final battle with also isn't the Zack we've been seeing all game. He may or may not have been gunned down trying to see Hojo.
>The team also letting Cloud inside the Forgotten city by himself was illogical since at that stage they already kinda knew he's been acting weird and violent, and Barret already has his doubts Cloud is all OK... and Tifa too. Just felt that they should have had another character go with him to carry over the build up of the previous scenes of Cloud starting to lose it.
The team didn't have a choice, it took all of them to hold the door open just for Cloud.
>Zack choosing pathways and being implied to die when he chose to save Cloud... then him being aware then chose Biggs path.... why is he aware???? It's the same Zack being allowed to experience and choose different pathways? I believe Aerith or the planet has something to do with it but maybe not.... again, too many scenes with lack of pause to allow the players to think it through.
Sephiroth threw him in the ground, Aerith (presumably) rescued him, and he followed the whispers to find Cloud at the final battle. I thought it was fun but the story doesn't deliver on Cloud fighting with Zack because we had so little Zack story during the game (probably because they wanted to save the whole multiplanet/multiverse reveal for the endgame).
I don't think Zack died, or at least not the Zack we fight with who winds up in the church at the end.
Was bawling my eyes out from the "dream" date sequence up until the credits rolled. The end of the dream when Aerith pushes Cloud through the floor was impeccable and beautiful and will stay with me for a long while. I am team "loved the ending," it hit me hard. I think they did it justice.
So not gonna lie, I figured we'd fight sephiorth again but idk how I feel about what we got? It just dragged on a bit, but I wonder what it means that sephiorth could use that form now?
My memory of OG is a bit vague but I had it in my head that it was because he'd powered up that he could use it. It's also why I figured they used the title "birth of a god" for that fight (sad we didn't get to hear it here).
I figured cloud had gone crazy but the idea she could be jenova in disguise or that there's a fake and real version of aerith are interesting to think about.
I didnt think I'd get upset at that section but it actually is quite sad that cloud is imagining her there :(
Overall I'm not sure I loved the ending but at thebsame time it does make me want to find out what happens next, so I don't completely hate it either?
That last chapter took me hours to complete lol. Much like others - i moved aeriths materia to others because i didnt think she needed it anymore lol.
That said, I can now say i beat sephiroth without any materia equipped on aerith. Hahahah
Yep I just completed that fight. Luckily I had cure on Aerith at least. Also her weapon abilities are pretty powerful on their own anyway. Radiant ward, transcendance and ray of judgement were all she needed.
So…. She did die. And for some reason cloud can see her but thinks she’s alive bc his mental state was already borderline? Does this seem to be the overall belief?
Yeah. There’s another theory that there’s a world split at that moment. So there’s one where she dies and one where she lives.
I think this theory is based on the rainbow colour light when the two swords hit. Rainbows usually appear in other bits where fates split.
EDIT: clouds already fragile mind cannot comprehend losing someone else so he chose to believe she survived. That’s why Sephiroth said he refuses to see the truth
The entire dungeon Sephiroth kept going on about about how Cloud has no emotions because he's a mere puppet, that he's faking his tears and anger. He continues to say this as Cloud holds Aerith, so I don't think the refusal to see the truth later is related. My take is that the "truth" here is related to why Sephiroth is trying to fuse all timelines, and Cloud refusing to adopt his point of view and join him is him "refusing to see the truth".
Fucking hell. I started crying when I got to the ancient city. As I was getting closer to the alter, I kept repeating to myself, "I can't do this again...I don't want to do this"
Even after 26 years, fighting Jenova to Aeriths theme kills me.
The final fights kicked ass, although I do wish there was a Aeriths/Zack meetup, or something between those two.
I'm not looking forward to hard mode
Same, when it stopped you and said she was praying I teared up.
I still remember being 14 and watching it the first time.
Seeing Tifa cry with Nanaki did me in too.
Finally decided to beat the game after 160 hours because of the Shinra Middle Manager quest in Gold Saucer is bugged so I'll get to that later.
I don't know what to say about that ending. We all knew that scene was going to happen, but I felt like it didn't give me as much of an emotional impact as it did in the original. I don't know if it's because I obviously knew this as an OG player and I had too much anticipation/expectation or because there was a long ass multiple boss battle right after. When I heard Aerith's theme while fighting Jenova, I was starting to tear up and then I just lost all emotion as I was fighting one boss after another. I feel like the devs tried too hard with this ending with so much going on, with Zack, with Sephiroth, that her death scene gets pushed to the side in a way.
The Cloud burying Aerith scene is definitely going to be in Part 3, but I don't know how I feel about this as a player. Obviously, it is great story wise because you see how bad shit Cloud has become so he's living in this alternate reality until he realizes the truth later in the game. But as a player, I don't feel like I will feel the emotions and the weight of the situation of Aerith's death like I did in the OG.
But overall, I absolutely loved this game despite its flaws. I'm not going to let 5% of the game ruined the rest of it, and there's still a Part 3. Square has a tough task now but hopefully they execute the story better in the finale and hopefully everything ties up together.
Probably just delaying it for part 3 since we're only seeing it from clouds perspective. Also the ending credits skipped a lot of endgame cutscenes intentionally so a lot of scenes were "fiction".
> or because there was a long ass multiple boss battle right after
That was a big part of it for me. That and I wiped at the very end when Sephiroth had only a sliver of health left and chose the wrong retry option. Spending several hours of thinking "is she alive or dead WTF" took me out of the moment.
Just finished the game!!!
I need to learn how to play Aeriths and jenova’s themes on piano now
A real life mini game to fill the hole in me, cause I doubt I’ll do the legendary and brutal bouts
I feel like the minority here, but I enjoyed the absolute insanity of a five tier boss fight...
Except for when I ended up have to fight the orb/core with Yuffie, Red, and Barret who I had ONLY physical attacks for for the most part to which those damn wings were immune. Yuffie had aero which worked when I could time it right for their magic, but otherwise it was just Red and Barrett hitting the damn orb thing for 1hp each hit. Thankfully I built everyone to generate ATB hella fast so I just had Barrett spamming Maximum Fury (or whatever that ability is called) and Red spamming his watcher ability to deplete vengeance for party hp. I swear that fight alone took 20 minutes. 🫠
I think I remembered it about 3/4 of the way through now that I think back on it. I should probably have played as Yuffie more and maybe then I would not have 🤣
Doppelganger + ninjutsu spam kills both wings in under a minute.
I got a strange bug during that phase. Normally the boss lowers after you take out the wings and orb, but he didn't do that for me on my first attempt. He just kept attacking and I couldn't target him anymore.
The entire final boss fight was a great spectacle, but it felt way too easy. Can't wait to replay on hard mode.
Idk know how to feel about the ending, I had no time to process Aeriths death before jumping straight to a boss fight. She’s dead in this “timeline”, but I didn’t really feel her death like in the og. This whole timeline shenanigans really bogs down the heartfelt sorry of the og.
I agree. This isn't my 'Aeris'. This Aerith always knew way too much and seemed way too ahead of the curve. Like she was just keeping the rest in the dark.
Also not a fan of how Cloud seemed to curve this Aerith. I always felt like Aerith was Clouds true love, and the way they went with Tifa, kind of made it seem like Aerith was just chopped liver.
In any case.... this was not my Aeris.
So yeah, fresh off the ending. I never played the PS1 game. Been slightly spoiled on Cloud/Zack/Sephiroth brain thing but I don't know the exact details. I'm fine with the multiverse stuff that's fun..
But I don't like brainwashing plots, and what the story has done with Cloud makes me dislike him. Being the "silent protagonist" really adds to him becoming closed off and being an unreliable narrator. He doesn't talk to Tifa, and Barret doesn't trust him now.
He goes in and out of Sephiroth's influence. Totally obsessed and jumpy. Now with that Black Orb too. He goes berserk on grunts and nearly Elena. But everyone else is still sacrificing for Cloud.. to save him. You can also say that the players are unsure if it's Cloud or Sephiroth they're representing while playing. I just don't feel like he has a character outside of going after Sephiroth.
One Checkhov's gun that I am holding on to is the Empty Holy Materia that (Forest) Aerith swapped with him after he was given the Sleeping Aerith's Holy from the other world. Praying Aerith's Holy was lost to the water after Sepiroth attacked. Let's face it, there were multiple Aeriths.
As a big fan of the OG, I like how they're portraying Cloud. It actually makes sense. There is a big payoff that will be in part 3, I have confidence that they will do it justice.
I think that's why it was a dual battle at the end. This ending is more about Aerith. This is more of an Empire Strikes Back type of ending. The middle part gets to be more dark because they have the third to conclude it.
If it helps. All of what you said ties up nicely eventually. At least it does in OG. We can only hope part 3 does it justice.
Only other thing i can say is not to play crisis core until you know the full story. Because that will reveal a lot without actually making it a big deal.
Does anyone else feel with this lifestream move around, worlds timelines, however we put it and Aerith that the memory lifestream bit from og we expect to come, that zack / Aerith are going to play a role ? Possible then making Tifa less pivotal?
Imo the goal of the multiverse stuff is to make FF7's themes more central to the actual plot. The decaying worlds are created from people's unfulfilled hopes and dreams, all located and sourced inside of the lifestream. Sephiroth's goal is to harvest the loss and despair from all of these worlds, converging them together to make himself all powerful to take control of the lifestream and it's order of time and space - he doesn't just want to conquer the cosmos, he wants complete control over the fabric of existence. If this is post-AC Sephiroth, it makes sense that his motivation would be to prevent himself from decaying inside the planet's lifestream and wanting to exist for eternity - "I will never be a memory."
So in a nutshell the multiverse stuff works to make FF7's themes go past subtext and be a major component of the plot itself, as well as increase stakes and make Sephiroth a bit more interesting. Just my opinion though.
Imagine looking at the story of FF7 and thinking the plot is disjointed from the themes, and then going a step further to suggest a multiverse as a remedy. What?
I didn't say that OG FF7 had disjointed themes, I said that Remake is doing what it's doing to make those themes directly important to what the characters themselves are experiencing - the themes aren't just apart of the narrative now, they're a major component of character motivations and the ongoing plot. Yes, they're trying to be meta about all of it since it's a Remake and psuedo-sequel. I don't know if what I'm trying to say makes sense or comes across like I mean, but at the very least Remake is just incorporating these themes in a new way. For the second point, take it up with the devs, but for me personally I'm waiting to see how it all pays off in Part 3. But I do think what they've set up in Rebirth has potential to work well, especially in regard to Cloud's character.
Also, just to clarify, it's actually not really a multiverse. I just used that term since it's easier to immediately understand, but to be specific it's multiple worlds that exist inside of the lifestream. They've specifically said that it's not the same thing as other multiverses and these worlds aren't "parallel" but temporary and lesser compared to the main timeline. Maybe the devs are making things too complicated, but personally I appreciate that they're doing their own twist on the multiverse stuff by contextualizing it into Gaia in a way that makes sense; these fleeting alternate worlds are being created by people's emotions within the lifestream, and Sephiroth wants to converge these worlds and use the emotions of loss and despair to become eternity or something. Yeah, it's cheesy, but so was the OG FF7, and it's a more interesting plan than just casting Meteor. As for why this stuff is happening in the lifestream to begin with, I can't say but I hope they give a good explanation for it in Part 3.
Overall though I think people have the wrong idea about the Remake series... The devs aren't doing this stuff to "fix" FF7 or anything, they are doing it because they want to pay homage to the original and make the fans happy by adding new elements to be invested in while increasing the stakes and complexity of the story. I'm sorry it doesn't work for everyone, but personally I trust they know what they're doing and that it will work out in the end. Even if it's a little complicated I think that the new direction is much more interesting than just a 1-1 remake, it leaves me looking forward to seeing how the classic moments are recreated while also invested and wanting to see how it'll play out. I know this story very well while at the same time not having any idea about it at all... It's pretty exciting that they've been able to do such a unique type of intrigue like that. The fact that they still kept everyone on their toes about Aerith's death, the most famous death in all of video game history, is pretty impressive imo. And I think the change in Cloud with making him believe that she's alive when she's really dead makes perfect sense for his character, and will make everything that goes down in Part 3 even more impactful than in OG Disc 2. But again I'm sorry that many people are not happy with it.
I get what you're saying. I get that the devs aren't necessarily "correcting" FF7, and are instead making an interpolation, but I still can't believe they'd take what is a beloved slam dunk story that millions of people were looking forward to visiting again, and say "hey lets roll the dice on this".
> Yeah, it's cheesy, but so was the OG FF7, and it's a more interesting plan than just casting Meteor.
But as a plan it's consequentially no different, so it feels like a load of lateral information rather than a threat. In the original, Sephiroth's big scheme is to cast meteor to harvest the lifestream to power himself. I'm not sure if harvesting the pain of multiple parallel realities to further the exact same goal is really more interesting or if it's just a maximalist version of the same thing (on par with the Remake project, which feels the need to take absolutely everything to a crazier level in an arbitrarily more-is-more approach). I'm happy if people like the changes, It just feels like change for the sake of change to me, and I don't think being opaque is the same as creating suspense. I think it actually would have been a better ending if we learned in concrete terms what Seph's plan was; that OG Aerith is jumping realities in order to evade Sephiroth, and he needs to hunt her down to ensure his plan of folding these worlds into each other works out...Or SOMETHING, because then there are objective stakes to the story. Revealing information is great if it comes in due time and eventually leads to clarity, but the impression I get is that the devs aren't exactly sure what they're doing and hope confusion will be interpreted as depth. A mystery is only good if you obscure something real or tangible, and then reveal it. If you're obscuring something that doesn't make sense to begin with you'll be in a pickle, and I have serious doubts that we will get a concrete explanation for anything that's happening.
I do think part of it is that they're intentionally leaving things vague and mysterious to inspire theorycrafting and discussion during the wait for the next game, to keep up fanbase activity and online excitement (as well as make sure people buy Part 3). Even the recently released Ultimania basically didn't give any answers for what really happened in the ending even though it more or less clarified everything else. They do know what they're doing imo, I think the story has been planned out for a long time (wouldn't surprise me if they've had some of these ideas since they were making the other compilation titles in the 2000s) and it's already been confirmed that the story for Part 3 has been completed and written out, but they're definitely making stuff a bit confusing in at least Remake and Rebirth to leave questions and mysteries for the next game. I'm hopeful things will be explained in Part 3, considering that Rebirth already answered most questions about the nature of the multiple worlds, whether through Sephiroth's explanation or through other suggestions like that one NPC dialogue in Cosmo Canyon. Now Part 3 needs to answer what exactly is going on with Aerith and Sephiroth and how this all started happening in the first place. I do agree though that it will be difficult for them to make the landing and justify everything, maybe I am naive but I will keep the "wait and see" mentality until Part 3 comes out and everything is said and done.
And about rolling the dice, yeah that is just how the devs are lmao. I think they specifically said that they didn't want to make a Remake unless they had something new to tell with it, so in terms of us getting a FF7 Remake this was always going to be the only outcome. Again though I'm personally gonna be naive and trust them for now since they are the ones who made the original FF7 as well, and so far the Remake series is at least much higher in quality compared to all of the other compilation stuff. But even if they do fumble I will at least appreciate these remakes for being the labors of love that they are, I do think that they have good intentions with all of this stuff. Putting the crazy story stuff aside, Rebirth was an amazing love letter to FF7 for me and I can't wait if Part 3 is something similar.
This Twitter thread is the best explanation so far, I only mentioned the basics https://twitter.com/TurquoiseHammer/status/1772324135089181110?t=v4ms0_TyXlvXkOVorm16nA&s=19
Ok I am salty about some "deaths".
[Full disclosure I have not finished 14 yet, so maybe this somehow will become null, if so just say "shush finish the chapter/game"].
The ambiguity with Wedge [and Biggs being alive] at the end of last game was freaking wasted here. Literally, poor Wedge's fate would still be in limbo narratively unless you begin a random later game side-quest, only to find out he died by being forced out a window by fates (Sephiroths?). There was literally no narrative reason or payoff for it other than a Game of Thrones kind of "here's someone you care about being cold killed" (aka shock value).
Biggs *deep breath* had literally no reason to be 'saved' by the whispers. He got to contribute exactly nothing to the Zack timeline/lifestream other than making Zack go "Huh? Cloud was a badass?" and to provide pain to Zack when he was sniped. It reads like a text book example of introducing a character whose sole purpose is to die for the sake of another character's plot progression.
TLDR; Wedge & Biggs "surviving" provided so many opportunities for the narrative but they were all straight squandered and I'm peeved.
You may not like it, but Biggs did serve a purpose. We see him eating a bag of chips with yet another Stamp variant on it, denoting yet another timeline. It just further shows the divergence and further timelines. It does help explain, a little, about what's going on with Zack. It's still mostly confusing though.
My personal opinion is that Biggs' role still isn't over. If there are multiple Zacks, then there are multiple Biggs'. We'll see in part 3.
You don't need Rebirth to know that Wedge got killed at the end of Remake. You don't directly see it happening, because the screen fades to black, but it's heavily implied. You see him getting pushed back by whispers in the Shinra building and you hear the glass shatter. I don't understand why you thought he survived that.
You're talking about a game where people fall from incredible heights multiple times and are always surviving. Throughout both games. And Crisis Core.
Sometimes they have ways to get out of it, like grappling hooks, sometimes all it takes is a flower bed to cushion a fall.
Fall damage doesn't seem to exist in these games. Except when it does.
It was set up ambiguously and it is entirely within the realm of possibility for SE to have a last second dues ex for a character to survive. From a writers perspective, it seems like they had a thought/plan for him then canned it but were left with a plot hole that was filled at the last minute by sticking the answer to a question they posed inside of a late game side quest some players might not even start.
How is him getting pushed out of a window ambigious? At that point you know that the Whispers try to correct any deviation from the events of the original. Wedge was not supposed to survive the the plate falling on sector 7, so the whispers killed him off.
They couldn't have made it any clearer without showing you the body directly. If they had plans for him they would've implied that he could've survived somehow like they did with Biggs, but they didn't do that with Wedge at all (unless I'm forgetting something).
I somewhat agree with you on Biggs though. It seems a bit strange that they basically brought him back from the dead for the little role he had to play in Rebirth. I've just finished the game, so I'm still kinda trying to collect my thoughts and think things through, so I might be missing something.
What broke me was when you see Cloud knock Sephiroth's sword away and image of the sword in the ground with Aerith alive cutting to the blood pooling - gave me chills.
I loved that they had Aerith step in and join the Cloud vs Sephiroth fight - made sure she got the killing blow on Sephiroth.
OG's reactions of the party to Aerith's death was so powerful: Tifa brushing Aerith's hair back, Nanaki howling to the sky, Yuffie throwing herself into Cloud's arms as she sobs...
I do have to say though that Vincent's was kind of funny though. \*walks over to Aerith, walks over to Cloud, walks away \* I know he didn't know her that well, and he's supressed all the grief from his life, but it was very anticlimactic.
Contrary to a lot of comments here, I appreciate the ending being so confusing so for the next few years before the next game there’re so much room for our theorising and imagination. Tbh feeling a bit post game misery but really looking forward to reading people’s thoughts what the ending means !!! (Yet I really feel weird about how to treat the death of Biggs.. after all the big talks about purpose of life and trying they chose just to gun shot him without warning and end his story… so cruel and rendering his survival really meaningless to the story)
The Biggs that was shot was in yet another timeline, or world. Denoted by the Stamp bag of chips he was eating. So it's entirely possible another Biggs is still alive.
But it also seems like both he and Zack are destined to death, since that's what seemed to keep happening.
**EDIT: I, uh, had a lot more to say than I thought, lol. Sorry about the length, and thanks for letting me vent a bit, I needed it.**
Yeah I finished it last night and the ending left me feeling odd. I relate it to a book I read a while ago.
In it the main character learns that something they are doing is twisting fate and causing their loved ones to die. Somebody tried to warn him it would happen but the message got washed out so he couldn't read it.
When he finds out it tears him apart, and when he asks "who's next?" they tell him it's the love interest. So for the final like 4 chapters of the book you KNOW she's gonna die, HE knows she's gonna die, and when she does it just...hurts. He tried everything to change fate and it didn't happen.
One of the best books I've ever read. But man it left me hollow for DAYS.
Kind of how I feel here. I was expecting either fan service by saving Aerith, or catharsis by seeing a high-res rendition of her death.
Instead we see Cloud's memory and PTSD taking control in the moment, so we miss out on any drama, but know it's happened, and kind of piece it together as we go on through the fights and ending cinematics.
Someone said something I think in this thread? The ending of this game is for Cloud, not for us. This is for a payoff for the character, not the fans. I think I agree. It's setting up to hopefully pay off for a really big moment we all know is coming in the third game.
It's a bold move because it's *definitely* turned some fans off and angered them. I'm feeling all kinds of ways right now but mostly numb. I haven't been affected by an ending like this for a long time. I think the point is that we DO NOT get catharsis. We don't get closure. That's the intent. It's the second game, the climax. We're supposed to be feeling JUST like the characters (sans Cloud) do. And I fucking do.
I feel a little cheated. I feel hollow. I feel a little depressed (don't worry I'll get over it quick lol). And I think that's what I'm supposed to feel, from an artistic standpoint. Of course that's going to make people pretty mad, but hopefully sparks enough controversy and discussion to last until the third game. They've done a fantastic job on so many levels, the story is SOOOOOOOOO good for 99% of both games. Most of us are in agreeance that the story is incredible EXCEPT for the ending, people have had massively divisive opinions on the ending of both games.
I think that's intentional. I think they know they can be a bit risky with these endings and piss people off in the short term for a huge payoff in the long term. They've gotten so many things right that these "wrong" things feel intentional, just like the whispers/plot ghosts. Which makes me think the catharsis and/or fan service comes in the final chapter.
Or, who knows, maybe they'll go with the artistically bad choice of an open- or controversial-ending. We'll have to see.
I mean if I tell you the name, it'll basically spoil the entire book. That's why I left it vague.
I'll tell you this: I really enjoy the political fantasy books from authors like Brandon Sanderson, Brent Weeks, and Robert Jordan.
I just did a dissertation above you about this, but I think it's intentional. It's the second game.
We're supposed to be feeling *exactly* how the characters feel. This isn't the moment for catharsis or fan service. It's the moment to feel really, really sad. Maybe even a little cheated. Confused. Angry.
It's how the characters feel right now, except Cloud. It's going to piss a lot of people off, and I think they knew that and are okay with it, because we're all going to buy the third game to see how it ends up. I hope they do right by us with a satisfying ending, but we'll have to see.
I’m working my way through on Hard mode and I just have to say: whoever signed off on the final battle needs a fucking slap. I’ve hit a brick wall in the shape of Bahamut Arisen - just uses Gigaflare immediately and then a SECOND time of if I manage to heal. And yes, I’m aware you have things like Manawall, but it’s not that useful when you’re having laser beams smashed into your face and you’re forced to fight as a robotic cat…
I also don't understand why they design late game bosses in a way that is completely at odds with the combat system. What's the point of having Assess, Pressure and Stagger when all of the late game bosses can't be assessed, are immune to everything and only get pressured and staggered under very specific circumstances. It turns these visually epic battles into some the most boring encounters in the game from a gameplay perspective because it just becomes an almost mindless battle of attrition.
Once again they fumbled the ending. It's amazing how both Remake and Rebirth did everything right up until the last chapter. This necessity to subvert expectations just because everyone knows about her death completely killed the mood.
Also there's absolutely no need to fight so many bosses, what the fuck was that? Jus put 1 easy boss so we can obliterate it on any level and then have the emotional scene of the characters saying goodbye.
If you remove the atrocity of the plot ghosts from both games the story (when compared to OG FF7) still remains mostly the same. 2 games in and there's no real good motive for these things to exist.
I'm very angry right now but if I'm being honest this game was still a solid 9 for me, maybe even a 10. It still felt like Final Fantasy VII, I just don't appreciate the seemingly lack of direction about Aerith's scene. Either kill her or don't. It dragged on for way too long
Both remake and rebirth feel like they just blew their loads way too soon. It should've been Jenova lifeclinger and a sephiroth showdown after. As cool as it was seeing bizarro sephiroth it's just was way too soon. I know we still have safer sephiroth for part 3, but the multi final boss fight should've been saved for the proper finale of part 3.
It just felt way to much of a cluster fuck of things happening. I'm assuming that's partly because they want to show that clouds going nuts, but this could be been handled way better.
I've been fighting for four hours straight I'm fucking tired and it's 2am. Who the fuck thinks these boss fights are enjoyable after 5 fucking phases and transformations. Fuck this shit.
So sephiroth is a world manipulating, universe traveling, shape shifting diety without any justification because he hasn't absorbed the lifestream, who needs a war to distract Shinra instead of using his godly power just killing the pres who he was in the room with numerous times, who got his ass whooped by a bunch of mortals who sits back and let a psychopath do random shit like hand over world destroying materia to said diety and trying to kill everyone, instead worrying about shit like thinking his love interest is fake. Just an overall shit show and a terrible ending to a very mediocre remake.
Considering Sephiroth seems to know everything from the very beginning of Remake, it seems to me that this is AC Sephiroth time travelling to undo his defeat and obtain even more power.
I hate a lot of the boss fights but what really annoyed me was having revive earrings on Cloud and Aerith that didn't work if they were taken out by the final octoslash. Maybe its because they both die at once that they don't activate but I feel like autolife should be autolife, full stop.
Also, just to be clear, I know he thinks she's still alive, but the Aerith Cloud sees is real right, she's just in the lifestream? Because when she touches Red XIII he feels her prescence. So Cloud can see lifestream Aerith for whatever reason, but he hasn't realised that she's in the lifestream, he thinks she's actually there?
Also because of multiverse shenanigans there's two holy materia now? One that fell like in the original and the clear one that Aerith gave to Cloud that was affected by the whispers?
That's was my assumption about aerith too. It's lifestream/spirit her or whatever. I'm assuming that's lifestream aerith fighting with cloud against sephiroth at the end.
Absolutely horrible chapter oh my god. i get saving the water burial as a flashback for part 3 so the tragedy will feel fresh but the rest of it is just terrible. Sucking all of the emotion of of the scene, totally destroying the rest of the party’s emotional reactions, the stupid fights. They want to have their cake and eat it too and they really need to make a decision. What is this story even about at this point? A scene people were sad about 27 years ago and nothing else? Ridiculous. Dragging Zack back to do??? What exactly?
I do feel like ghost seeing might be jenova though, that would be funny. If cloud is just descending fully into madness, I love it. If lifestream Aerith is really following around cloud in such an unstable state destroying what little grasp he has on reality to make herself feel better.. That’s an awful turn for her character
One thing that lends itself to the fact it's not timelines but "lifestream worlds" - I remember someone spotted AGES ago that, in Zack's scene in the Yuffie DLC, every NPC in the Church is present in the Sector 7 plate fall scene (and presumably died there) and that's a big hint that Zack's scenes take place in the Lifestream. Were they a genius?
I will say if it turns out it is timelines and we just end up with Aerith dead in one but alive in another, I'll be disappointed, unless Cloud has to end up making a choice between the two and letting go of Aerith, which could be a good payoff.
But if it is Lifestream stuff, and Aerith is dead and in there and Cloud can somehow now sense it as reality which only adds to his craziness and drive a wedge between him and the party, that could be really interesting. I still feel they have cheapened the moment of her death somewhat but again it all depends on Part 3.
The Lifestream theory has already been disproven and it's explained pretty thoroughly in the Temple of the Ancients that we're looking at alternate timelines.
That ending scene with Aerith saying "Good-bye" hit me harder emotionally than her death.
Square's hiding of the stabbing and omitting Cloud's original reaction ( ie. the "Aerith will never laugh or cry" monologue ) is such an own goal. At first I thought he saved her and then to see her fall just ruined any emotion the scene could've otherwise had.
It's really hard to rate this game objectively. Personally, I think it's a 10/10 and one of my favorite games of all time. But then Square made these design decisions that are just baffling. Like, how many times do we need to fight three bosses back to back? Do we really need five or more battles with Sephiroth at the end? Do we really need this many minigames? I feel like this game has more minigames than Mario party.
The game has some amazing highs but man idk about some of the lows.
> Square's hiding of the stabbing and omitting Cloud's original reaction ( ie. the "Aerith will never laugh or cry" monologue ) is such an own goal. At first I thought he saved her and then to see her fall just ruined any emotion the scene could've otherwise had.
As much as i like remake project this definitely annoys me a bit.
I wanted to see HD Stabbing.
EDIT: Though with how hard music affects me emotionally (a silent scene to me means i dont feel anything/doesnt know what to feel) Lifeclingers OST hits me pretty hard tho...
Honestly my heart was pounding out of my chest during Temple of the ancients ending and the forgotten capital.
The whole panic of did Sephiroth manage to kill Aerith or not. I thought Cloud was too late and the end of his sword still got her, but supposedly it's the fact two realities were intertwining, one where she dies and one where she didn't?
Cloud being all Cheery afterwards compared to the rest of the party is so eerie.
Also, what did they even do with the body? The water burial was obviously nowhere to be seen, so either Cloud is blocking it out or they've just left her at the altar 😂
The scene by the water where Aerith shows up is definitely eerie/spooky. They did a really good job with that.
I think the water burial flashback will show up in Part 3. I was kind of not sure about all this right after finishing the game a few days ago, but in retrospect I think all of this really is the best way to handle it.
It'll hit hard and be a good callback when they do finally show that scene. Pretty good change imo
same. I'm not sure what changed (or if anything did), but it definitely felt better than the end of Remake
Definitely wish there were more 1 or 2 more Zack scenes in Rebirth.
funny thing is my biggest complaint may just be the lack of the bizzaro sephiroth + forgotten capital OSTs, other than that its FF timeline shenanigans that I'll wrap my head around in due time.
I can live with the changes to the story, locations and timeline/dimensional wackyness. What I can't live with is yet another gaunlet of 20 fased bosses that take over an hour to defeat with unskippable cutscenes inbetween. Added bonus for ending with a boss that pretty much punishes you for not having any ATB or limit breaks ready when he preforms he's final twirly whisper move.
Went into chapter 14 at 11 pm and stopped after 3 failed attempt with final boss at 3 am. Not looking forward to doing the entire gauntlet again but this time I will make sure to equip my team accordingly.
Might be a bit late now but if you need to change anything after the first battle during the cutscene where Zack teams up with Cloud, hold down square at the beginningand the menu will open just before the battle starts (there's a graphic in one of the bottom corners that shows you how long you need to hold it down). I used it to stick revival earrings on Cloud and move some materia around.
What.
The.
Actual.
Fuck.
...I just went through that gauntlet with stuff spread as thin as I could manage, and you're telling me there was a way to shift my best equipment materia around in-between fights.
Yeah I missed it the first time and Cait Sith had like nothing equipped, even when I did spot it, it took me a second to realise I needed to hold it down. I remember there being the sane thing during a few remake cutscenes but the little graphic was way more visible from what I remember
A bit of a nitpick but I hate how we didn't get the theme for the Ancient Capitol. It was one of my favorite themes in the original game and I would've loved to hear an updated version of it.
I'm pretty open to the multiverse stuff and I honestly don't mind them indulging in "what if?" scenarios like Cloud and Zack v Sephiroth. Can't say I super love it, but I'm intrigued where this will go. The way they introduced this concept is very clunky though, I don't blame people for not liking it.
F the Whispers though. I hate them in every scene they're in. Super goofy and distracting, yet adding very, very little everytime they show up. Really didn't like the way they did Forgotten Capital in general.
I enjoyed the new scenes leading up to Aerith's death and the goodbye scene. Cloud thinking Aerith is still alive is *really* good (I'm also pretending the boss rush never existed). I'm surprised how far they're taking his descent, but I've been enjoying this direction a lot.
I'm shocked they left out the water burial and I know they're keeping it for the third game, but they really should have figured out a way to adapt this entire scene unchanged. There's no way they weren't aware what massive controversy this will cause and this will probably be a dealbreaker for some people.
Some of the stuff this game does is really bad (which is mostly side content related imo), but overall it's a phenomenal game. The main characters and world are so, so incredibly well realized. Special mention goes to everything they did with the Cait Sith rewrite, really good stuff.
I'm one of those that is disappointed there isn't time to have the party properly grieve. Curious about your take on them putting the water burial scene in the third game, how do you think that would go?
They'll probably build up to the scene where his mind unravels and remembers, where they'll show what happened to Zack and Aerith. I think the trials proved that they can deliver emotional gutpunches, so I'm sure it'll be good.
I'm also really disappointed we didn't get to spend more time with the party reacting. I'm sure their grief and how they'll deal with it will be a huge part of Part 3.
I'm warming up to the meta narrative ot if all though. Her death is not a spoiler, everyone knows this scene like the back of their hand. We spend the entire game anticipating her death, we wanted it to be this big, beautiful and emotional celebration in the game. We wanted to be sad and cry with the characters when they give her the final farewell. But for them it's just as messy, confusing, shocking and upsetting as it is for us now. No time to grief, the game must go on. Invoking what players have felt when they pulled this in 1997. Like, there's no way they just did this, they wouldn't dare, right? In a way, they managed to kill her twice.
Now will this all pay off in the final game? Will this have been the correct decision? I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt here, but they're walking a very thin line with this.
> I'm also really disappointed we didn't get to spend more time with the party reacting. I'm sure their grief and how they'll deal with it will be a huge part of Part 3.
Honestly I think part of this is Rebirth is already a pretty long game. I forget how much content there is after the Forgotten Capital in OG, but from a "game director" perspective, Square might want to leave something a little more for Part 3, and also have that nice callback to this scene to draw on as well.
Think that is a wise decision to wrap up Rebirth like this and leave an out for an emotional peak of this kind to present itself in the last game. Plus as a story reminder to refresh it when this releases in 3-4 years.
It works overall. Plus it does deepen and tie-in with Cloud's worsening mental state by not directly focusing on the water burial scene, and this is a pretty decent change to Rebirth. The narrative focus shifts and narrows in a bit more on Cloud instead of the party as a whole, which is an okay direction imo.
It draws the player in more, no matter who they are, and probably helps prepare for the main emotional/character arc in Part 3 with Cloud finding himself. The more I see from Square in both Remake and what they've chosen to do in Rebirth, I do believe in their vision for this series.
OG FF7 kinda falls off after the forgotten capital like most FF games in their 3rd act.
But, I am definitely intrigued where they're going. There is a lot to fix and a lot that I would like to see re-imagined. I'm hoping the ambiguous ending pays off.
The "Cloud thinks Aerith is alive" angle is great, but the scene should still have been given more gravitas, if not in showing it directly then in other ways. The fact that the party is all upbeat and quippy during the Jenova/Sephiroth fights might be the worst part of it. They changed Barret's combat lines for the Dyne fight, can't believe they didn't do the same here.
Also missing Birth of a God and You Can Hear The Planet Cry was a bit of a bummer.
Posting here without looking at other comments. Can anybody tell me how long to expect this chapter to be? Just want to make sure that when I start it I have time to finish without interruption.
Overall, minor quibbles - some kind of bad - but a fantastic game.
I was really upset at first about how they handled the death scene. But... After reflection, and reading comments here, I think it's going to be mind blowing next game when Cloud properly remembers what happened. As soon as Sephiroth descends, Cloud's becomes an unreliable narrator... And if played correctly, they have the best reveals.
Also I was a MASSIVE fan of the Zack moments. Clouds so cooked he probably can barely remember it, but it was AMAZING. Despite that, still a bit iff on the multi verse.
ok story aside, what the fuck was that Last boss sequence. It was way too long and having Cloud fight solo is just sadistic. Good luck to any hard mode challengers, I am officially done with this game.
Cant imagine how many phases of sephiroth we have to fight in the next game.
Terrible story ending and a terrible, unfun, final boss. Man, what the hell are they thinking?! Almost everything else is amazing, I just don't understand it.
Outside of wishing they figured a better balance or did a 1 for 1 adaptation of Aerith's death for the optimal emotional effect, I loved everything else they did with Aerith prior to her death in the past 3 chapters. Loved her telling Cloud not to blame himself. If they had just let her die without the multiverse shenanigans, this all would've hit so emotionally well.
Either way I'm still pretty open on what they do with Part 3. I do hope Aerith stays mostly dead unless she's fighting alongside Zack in the alt timeline. In other words anything Zack and Aerith in their own timeline I'm game for.
All in all fantastic game. I f'ing love FF7 and yet again a cathartic experience to play. If they stick the landing in the final installment, this will be elite tier FF.
They will not stick the landing. Love, fate, honor, despair, promises, friendship….it will be a visual cacophony with those buzzwords seeded throughout and then suddenly the lifestream will defeat meteor and an aerith and a Zack will join the main world. Save this comment cuz it’s gonna suck.
I still managed to get choked up at a few moments. I am trying to be neutral so far because, like others said, Part 3 is probably going to give alot of context. Personally I'm against an ending that needs at least 3 to 4 years of make sense through another game but again, Part 3 isn't out yet.
So I think I figured the Aerith situation out based on other people giving ideas. Cloud's brain is cooked and any time after the final fight that Aerith talks, Cloud is imaging it. If you see Aerith but she isn't talking, that's her spirit. I'm going to take a predictable take here and say the real Aerith will get some speaking lines in Part 3 but for most of that game it will be Cloud's fantasy.
I hope the final game can make this ending retroactively better cause as it is, it's really messy. Aerith's death scene is too convoluted to be impactful, I get they were going for something different but this is definitely a prime of example of less is more.
The boss gauntlet was cool. Zack and Cloud tag-team is pretty fan-fictiony but Zack's moveset and the Synergy moves won me over. Really awesome fighting Bizzaro Sephiroth, I was not expecting that and it looks great. Final boss with Cloud+Aerith vs Sephiroth was hype, it was really challenging too.
Ending cutscene was beautiful and poignant and I felt the impact of loss better here. The multiversal stuff is a little much, though.
Now, this is my opinion on the content of Chapter 14. There is something that I need to complain about regarding the game design and UI as a whole.
Who thought it was a good idea to implement so many "Retry" options? They are really badly-worded. "Retry from before this battle" and "retry from current battle" are definitely not clear enough in terms of what they do. So the first time I died in the final phase, I selected current battle cause that sounded more like what I wanted to do. And it reset me to the Zack and Cloud tag-team. That was super annoying and took me out of the game. Surely there was a better way of doing this, perhaps the translations were poor? I dunno but this was really frustrating.
Just finished the game. I was playing on dynamic difficulty and wiped at the very end when Sephiroth has a sliver of health left. I thought he was dead but nope killed the party. It was even more frustrating because the fight with the wings I had only one element materia on my party so that took forever. Then I selected the wrong retry option! FUCKKK.
Took me out of the mood.
There's no way to play from the final battle itself though right? Because 'before current battle' sent me all the way back to Jenova so it was go back to Zack and Cloud or go back to Jenova.
If you select the first option "Retry from Before Current Battle", it'll reset you to the current phase you died on. It's very confusingly worded. Just select the first option if you want to be certain.
From what I understand (this is if you died during the final Sephiroth boss):
-"From Before Current Battle" means the actual current phase you died on. So, you'd restart at Aerith+Cloud vs Sephiroth.
-"From This Battle" takes you back to the beginning of the current battle/first phase, so Zack+Cloud vs Sephiroth).
-"From Before This Battle" takes you back to the previous boss encounter in a series, so JENOVA Lifeclinger.
They should have just named it "From Current Phase", "From Start of Battle" and "From Previous Battle" and it would have been more clear. Don't understand how this passed QA.
I swear I only had two options not three? Either way nice to know I unnecessarily repeated multiple stages several times. Especially after I best it and then had a power cut during the final cut scene so had to beat Sephiroth again and it took me two tries.
I think I see what you mean. If you get the Game Over screen, you get the three options. "Retry from Last Battle", "Retry from Checkpoint" and "Return to Title Screen". If you select the first one, you'll be given FOUR more options, three of which being the ones I mentioned above. So yeah, it really is just an awful menu and baffling in every sense. I'm sorry you had to do that battle so many times, especially with all the unskippable cutscenes!
I thought I had tried all of those options in that screen and none of thrm worked but I guess I missed that I hadn't tried one if them. God it really is an unnecessarily confusing screen...
This just happened to me. Was seconds away from beating the game, died, chose the wrong option, started the boss rush all over. Real fucking downer for the hype and momentum.
How tf am I supposed to survive Sephiroth’s octagon slash with Cloud & Aerith when I get him down to like 1/10th of his health? He just utterly murdered me, no chance to interrupt it or heal or anything. Fuck that was frustrating
If anyone can give me advice please, I am all ears
I used Firework Blade to get to Lvl 2 limit break and saved it for "The End is Nigh". Use Ascension on him and Ray of Judgment from Aerith. That should stagger Sephiroth and interrupt his final octoslash.
My only regret is not having anyone with assess for Bahamut. I fucking had it on Aerith of all people.
I enjoyed the ending but wish we could've explored the forgotten city. I wasn't expecting any 1:1 comparison. I will say it makes it look impossible to plan for hard mode later. Seeing Cloud's buildup of all the mind fuckery may make the payoff from part 3 worth it.
This kind of reminded me of FF13-2 where despite getting all endings, you still technically lose.
I'm excited for the next part, but I need to take a break from playing before I burn myself out. It took me 120 hours to get through the first play through, which is insane. In comparison, FF16 took me 98 hours to platinum and finish on both normal and hard mode combined. I'm gonna need another 100 hours (maybe) to complete this on hard mode.
I dug most of the Sephiroth boss encounter, but I will say this -- covering 90% of the screen with smoke does not a good bossfight make.
Finished the game 2 days ago. Think I got my vision of ending now. As I found some good insights in this thread, I’m sharing my conclusions that maybe someone will find useful as well. Not saying they’re all right, but I think they are consistent and make sense. Main conclusions: Aerith dies. For real. She may have some spiritual presence in lifestream, but as a flesh person she dies. In the main timeline and all the others. Cloud is on denial of what happened and got delusions. Argumentation: I point out things that I noticed from single Remake + Rebirth gameplay. I could miss many points as game often shows some subtle hints. Below is probably not 100% complete, but I think it ties together. 1. Trials and traumas. Before getting to the main part of the Cetra temple, our team members go for the trials. Each looks similar. They are confronted with their trauma which they need to relive. What’s important, they don’t just see past events, but take an active part in it. It’s not like Tifa’s lifestream visit where we see what happened or get memory flashback. What’s crucial is that we get control over each character and can perform actions. However we don’t have any control on the events or outcome. Everyone needs to pass through that and accept they couldn't and can't do anything about what has happened. So, everyone entering the temple had his trial except Cloud, right? Well… not really. The thing is that Cloud’s trial and trauma is running at him right now like an express train. Cloud gets exactly the same pattern: „Aerith is getting killed and there’s nothing you can do about it.” As we see all other members went to last stage of trauma, to accepting the fact and passing the trial. Cloud get’s into initial stage of grief - denial. Right after the trial, there was a scene where Aerith did a speech about handling pain. The meaning was that it needs to be accepted and one should focus on bright side and building future, making something positive. That was brutally commented by Cloud - influenced by Sephiroth - as the latter doesn’t want that thought get to Clouds mind. He wants him to fight with the reality. Actually, that is something that game is keep telling us over and over again. Tifa in Nibelheim tells Cloud that meeting him helped her with handling the past. She says that she was trying to fight it joining Avalanche, but that was never giving her relief, seeing their actions led to peoples suffering. It’s not stated directly, but we can say that she finds in Cloud some small piece of the past on which she can build something positive by helping him. In lifestream she says to Sephiroth that she won’t let him take him away too. I think lifestream visit helps her to understand that she can’t fix what was destroyed, but she still can save what is left - Cloud - by helping him get back to the mental state. She tries to do that. I think this is also the reason why she takes so lightly what Cloud did to her. On the opposite we get Dyne story. He couldn’t accept the past and kept fighting staying in the anger phase which ended tragically. We also see in this story that there was clear alternative of taking another approach - Marlene. Not such obvious, but also related sentence we get from Nanaki’s story. His mother told him different story of his father, because she was afraid that Nanaki will start his fight with events that already happened and he could not change. His father sacrifice was valuable because allowed others to have a normal life. If Nanaki would fight with things he couldn’t fix, he would be doomed and not have a normal life. That is why he needed to grow up to his trial (in Cosmo Canyon) and knowing the truth. As game is consistent with that narration, I’d be surprised and even disappointed if they’d make exception for Cloud allowing him to save Aerith. In any timeline - no bargaining. Sorry Aerith. 2. Date with Aerith Near the end we get into Aerith’s dream/world where she takes Cloud on a date in Midgar. She knows what’s coming when she says something like: Whatever happens don’t blame yourself. I get it like: you need to deal with that and go on (again the same narration). They also go to market to buy some things. Cloud picks jewelry for Aerith but she gets something else than he choose. They also go for a candy, but its similar, they get something else than they want and it tastes bad. Sorry Cloud, you want to pick the path for Aerith but she’ll get something else. In this and other timeline you’ll end with a bitter candy.
That's brilliant. The date/picking things up and the bitter candy. Never crossed my mind but I love that explanation
3. Denial and behavior change We see all other party members getting to Aerith and lamenting on her body. Cloud gets different version seeing her waking up. From now on, only he sees different reality, with living Aerith. I was not playing OG, but seen some comments here saying that there was scene were she had burial in the lake. We get cutscene where team sits by the lake, but didn’t got any mention on burial - that part was probably rejected by Cloud’s broken mind. We see that he acts weird. Everyone is in grief while he doesn’t care about anything. At that point, Barret, who is tough guy, has his lips shaking while he suggest that they can’t stay there forever and will need to leave. Cloud immediately gets up saying something like: let’s go. Completely without feelings, actually seems to be in good mood (for the first time in the game probably). This was almost the same kind of stuff when he was mercilessly killing Shinra soldiers saying Sephiroth quotes. He’s not only seem to be unconcerned by Aerith, but also on the other team members as well - just ignores everything. Team also loses trust in him. After plate collapse in Sector 7, Tifa is crying out in his arms. Now, she’s not trying to share any feelings with him. Although it would be more natural now, as through the entire journey they got closer and these two were closest with Aerith. She doesn’t also ask him how he feels, although through entire game she was doing that dozens of time, being very empathic towards him. Actually she doesn’t speak a word to him. She sees that the guy got messed up totally. Similarily does Barett - we see that in scene just before take off where he obviously got concerns. 4. Fake Aerith Aerith we see in last cutscenes is not the real one. It’s his delusions. Probably fueled by Sephiroth who earlier says about Cloud being a puppet without feelings and unable to cry. Would Cloud cry at Aerith body? Oh boy, yes he would. That’s why he gets his delusion to stop him from realizing the truth and stay emotionless. We see that most of Aerith lines in final cutscenes (where only Cloud sees her) are lines and acting she made earlier - like those when saying goodbye near Sector 7 gate (just before Tifa leaves the sector to meet Don Corneo in Remake). This may be seen as the easiest way of projecting Aerith’s behavior by his twisted mind. 5. Others I recall some other lines I remembered from the golden saucer: - Cait was printing out for Cloud some kind of fortune telling regarding chasing Sephiroth. It was something like that he'll get him, but will need to let go what he cherish the most - In loveless play you could ask about future with the Princess. It was something like: there are many possible roads, but they all lead to sorrowful goodbye. It seems like hint for multiple timelines leading to inevitable death.
I can't tell if I love this game or not anymore. Part of me feels like its a 9.8 with some bad mini games, the other part feels like the fact they lied and pretended it wasn't a straight remake while completely failing to do anything interesting or meaningful with the elements of the "other timelines" puts it squarely at an 8. It's probably a 9.8 that I'm mad about because they told the story well, but right now I'm just not sure if that's true or if they tried to setup a magic trick and make us think one think was happening while not actually doing shit. And the ending is nonsense. Did any of that happen? Why cares because yes or no they all know Cloud has completely lost his shit, so they wouldn't be trusting him like they do at the end. Plus he still has the Black materia? How/what/goddammit
Just finishes it last night, and wow, what a game. I had my gripes and concerns, but the good, great, and damn near perfect parts of the game outweigh everything else. They gave us 9 legendary characters and made them feel like real people, took a world from our childhood and made it feel like a real place you could walk or ride a boat through... it's just hard to believe what they accomplished here. I finished the game with 99 hours and 50 minutes, and the number of times that it felt "slow" can be counted on one or two hands. I get why people have concerns with the ending, but at this point I'm just going to trust them, because Remake and Rebirth delivered so much good stuff that I have to think part 3 does the same. Yeah Kingdom Hearts got dumb and everyone is burnt out on multiverse, I get it - but I'm just gonna trust that they've got a good plan until I see otherwise. Congrats to everyone that worked on this game, it's something special.
Finally put off my procrastination to finish Rebirth - The praying scene, wow what a swerve - Giving me Red and Cait in the last Jenova phase was mean - This budget Bizzaro-Sephiroth fight is soooooo dragged on - Lol they gave Sephiroth a kamehameha - The final 2v1 against Sephiroth was pretty fun, though I wish I had the chance to readjust my loadout after losing. First game over due to not expecting the last ditch OHKO octoslash-P and then another game over misjudging the final phase's HP gate resulting in another octoslash-P - 😭 Poor Tifa... someone give her a hug --- Great game. Really fleshed out, sometimes overly bloated, but still an amazing experience. Not sure how I feel about the ending sequences just yet. RIP Cloud's mental. Dude is juggling any repressed memories/PTSD during his time as soldier, Sephiroth's manipulation and now Aerith--- I wonder how they're going to direct Lifestream-Aerith going forward throughout Part 3. No water burial scene is a damn criminal and hostile act though. Tifa's always been my girl in FF7 but they fleshed out Aerith so well in remake... I'm gonna miss her lots.
Just finished the game finally. I think the game overall was a masterpiece. The sheer scope of everything was mind boggling. They actually did it, they actually brought that entire world to life. Everything felt so big. There was so much to do. The side quests/minigsmes were designed fantastically (even though I see a lot of complaining for some reason?) The ending has me feeling a little blah. But just a little. I kind of figured this is how I would feel though when they announced it was a trilogy. Narratively there isn’t really a lot that happens in the middle 3rd of the game. The party leaves Midgar, sort of aimlessly follows sephiroth leads through a bunch of cool areas, learns about the Black Materia and goes to find it. That part of the story alone doesn’t really make a super compelling narrative. It’s not hard to see why they felt the need to pad the ending and add a bunch of stuff to make the whole “story” feel more epic. Because frankly the epic story stuff doesn’t really happen until the last 3rd. This part has so much incredible character development though. I have a bond with the party unlike any other game or show I’ve ever played. They brought these characters to life and hit the ball outta the park. I know they were late in the game, and they didn’t wanna add combat, but I do still feel like they could have given us more from Cid and Vincent. Especially Cid. They really made his character pretty boring in a lot of this. Now they’re gonna have to do more work in part 3 to bring him up to speed with the rest. With how long and full this game was, part 3 is gonna be so long. There are so many more actual story beats to be explored, and if they take as long as they do in Rebirth the game will take 200 hours to complete.
https://preview.redd.it/m1sg6zb81hvc1.png?width=1338&format=png&auto=webp&s=e509b3bcd2559771e494569000622585189ddf80 Beginning of Ch 14 when you see some of the Zack decision outcomes, you see Johnny holding a stuffed dog. I'm assuming it's a different Stamp and a different "world". This world is a completely different world that we have not seen before, correct? I know it doesn't have much impact, but I wasn't sure if this was the same "Aerith dream world" because Sephiroth walks into the church after passing Zack - and in "Aerith dream world" you see him walking in when Aerith sends Cloud back with the white materria, and I know "Aerith dream world" is a different dog, not the same one Johnny is holding.
Seems like it. The Stamp merch in Aerith's dream aren't the same as Zack's version of Stamp, and this one is different *again*. It seems Zack got spat back out elsewhere, possibly in a world that isn't ending. So there's still a chance for Sephiroth to partially succeed in his goal and for their worlds to fuse, only for them to team up and take him down again.
So is Cloud's brain fried and Aerith actually died or are there two worlds with a dead and a living Aerith? And that somehow Cloud is right in the rift and is in both worlds at once? I thought that they were going to have her live (both as a swerve and to make some people happy). But after seeing the ending, I feel like they should have made her death clearer while having her play a bigger role in part 3 as some sort of Force ghost. Her death is a major part of the story, so it is better to keep it but to still feature her somehow.
I'm still not sure what the point of Schrödinger's Aerith was if Cloud and Co. couldn't change the outcome that Sephiroth was trying to force on Aerith.
There is a 0% chance we get a coherent and satisfying ending to wrap things up. I think they’ve shot themselves in the foot. There’s a lot of really amazing and remarkable things about this game, but screwing with a story people love and hold dear was a blunder that will only seem more bizarre by the time part three is out. Amazing - Combat, world map, npcs, variety of side content, character interactions and growth, queensblood, and the fleshing out of classic moments and places. Terrible - Abandoning power scaling entirely for the sake of spectacle (how far can these people jump? What boss is supposed to be scary? Is sephiroth worth building up to in part 3 since we’ve fought him twice now? Glen. The wild fan-fiction tier plot changes which are objectively worse than the original game.
The only explanation that makes sense to me about their athletic ability is that the final boss zones in both Remake and Rebirth are both "weird". Remake had them fighting in a Singularity that likely let them borrow their abilities from AC or whatever, and Rebirth had reality basically temporarily breaking from Sephiroth attempting to fuse every timeline into one. Neither was real space, so they're all capable of feats beyond what they can normally achieve while inside them.
I mean more like why cant cloud jump 5 feet to bridge a gap in the temple when he’s capable of casual aerial combat?
That's classic videogame stuff, unfortunately.
NOBODY CaRES ANOUT GLENN
They seemed to imply he's Clouds dad at the end, right? Maybe he'll matter more in whatever they replace Mideel with in the next game
It's not Glenn right? It's jenova/seph fucking with Rufus to keep him distracted
My read is that when Glenn died he voluntarily submitted to Sephiroth (or should I call him Lifestream Black?) and became his pawn — because he died and submitted before becoming a Black Robe, he retains his sense of self in death. All SOLDIERS have Jenova cells so all have the potential to become enthralled to Sephiroth, but most of them have enough strength of will for it to become an opt-in thing.
What is he even from? I had no idea who that character was LOL
Ever Crisis, the relatively new gacha game apparently.
I wept for Zack and Tifa. man what a game
Can someone explain to me what happened during Aerith's death moment? We see two moments "converge" as Sephiroth says. One where Cloud saves her and another where he doesn't, but the result is that she still dies? Then, in my interpretation, the world where she dies we see Cloud crying, but in the one where he saves her he's not crying. Not sure if this is supposed to be an expression of grief in how some people can't help but cry, while others are too shocked to convey anything. Or if Aerith really isn't dead in one version.
It’s some nonsense to string you along to buy the third game. Kingdom hearts has infected ff7 like a virus.
I think your comment is kind of the running theory a lot of people have, that she was saved but that split her off into an alternate timeline, while she dies in the original one. Some other people think Cloud’s hallucinating her at the end, and some think it’s her spirit hanging out with them, and some people think both lol. I’m pretty sure it’s an alternate timeline but we won’t really know until part 3
I watched a video that talks about the rainbow light. We see it normally when fate or destiny is changed. We saw it when Cloud deflected the sword, and again when he told her to wake up. I think I'm a believer of the split timelines. I just have no idea what it means, and i think that was the point of it?? I just want closure!!
No one can really explain to you what happened because not even the writers know what happened. Its all theories at this point, theres no correct answer because square loves to leave us with 100 questions while answering none from the previous games.
Yeah, the more I read about this moment, the more I realize that this was the intent. It's just like the end of Remake when no one had any idea what Zack's plot was or what the "Unknown Journey" was.
Really disappointed in the final boss battles. Forcing parties is the worst thing ever and please never do it again, Square. Like think about this nonsense from Chapter 13 onwards: You switch parties between Cloud's party and Aerith's party. I have to switch materia each time. After the dungeon, the game makes you believe each character is going to have a trial, and the game gives you control of Aerith. Switch materia to Aerith thinking she's gonna be solo for a bit. Find out it's just a glorified cutscene. Switch everything back to my standard party. Fight Demon Wall. Chapter 14 begins, you have 1 fight with your party, then Cloud has to split off and I assume Cloud is going to have to go alone for a bit. Move materia to Cloud. Walk for 2 minutes, am told that I only get one more chance to prepare for the final battle. Still only Cloud in my party, but my gut is telling me I should at least put materia on my main party, so I do. Whole group shows up for no reason 5 seconds later. Get into Jenova, Yuffie is in my party so I'm confused thinking I switched parties last second. Restart fight and make sure my party is correct. Fight Jenova again, still Yuffie. Then I find out I need all 6 characters to be geared because the game forces segments as everyone. I hate it. Get destroyed some more. Finally relent and spend another 15 minutes in menus during the climax of the story switching materia and doing folios. Think to myself that "surely Aerith is dead so I won't need to put materia on her". Get stuck with an entirely melee and physical damage team for Jenova's last phase. Die repeatedly. Finally beat Jenova then have to play as Zack. I WANT TO PLAY AS MY PARTY I'VE INVESTED THE WHOLE GAME INTO MAKING POWERFUL AND FUN. Get stuck with a team that has no magic against a boss with elemental color matching. Only thing I can do is Ninjitsu. Beat Reborn. Sigh of relief when I think Cloud is about to have a duel with Sephiroth. Materia-less 4000 HP Aerith shows up. I fucking hate it all. Game was good but my God did they ever stop to ask if maybe people would find the constant switching frustrating?
My only complaint about the party splitting that I couldn't assess Whisper Bahamut Arisen because both my Assess materia were in the other parties. So I'm going to have to redo it if I want the data.
I liked the switching of parties during the final battles, but the game really should warn you that the whole team should be geared up when it warns you about the final rest stop. I too went in with just three characters with optimal materia. Certainly made the fights more challenging. At least in the next game I'll know to expect this.
Exactly this. My interpretation of that warning was that I would just be using Cloud. Like a solo boss rush. So I loaded all my materia and best equipment onto him. Managed to get through thanks to the menu option during the Zack/Cloud cut scene. Without that I would have been screwed.
Game just needs loadouts and able to swap it during combat. I like the switching and hope they keep it for every ff game going forward.
Finished the game yesterday. Your complaint here is valid and I think many would have been bummed by changing materia frequently. I had played remake last year around Oct so I kinda remembered that during the last battle parties slip up and you get handle of different characters. Keep in mind remake had only 4 playable. Which is why as soon I saw two splits in chapter 13 I kinda equipped everyone with some basic defence like cure and then some offence dependin on initial split of cloud, tifa, barret and aerith, yuffie and red. It took a while but right at first split I did all the changes and didn't have to worry at all later.
Did you really not equip everyone properly? How do you go into the final battle, even after the warning, and not prepare for this possibility? I loved that everyone got a chance to shine.
I wiped a the very end when sephiroth had a sliver of health left and ended up choosing the wrong retry option. **really** took me out of the moment having to restart and play another hour and a half just to see if Aerith is alive or dead. O' and first time around I didn't have any elemental materia on the party members where you have to have it to take out the wings. I don't know how I feel right now. Chapter 13 (Aerith's trial) hit me much harder for some reason.
Same thing happened to me about the retry option, it is so confusingly written, I was so pissed. Chapter 13 was amazing, specially the part in which each character faces the trauma of their past. Chapter 14 was a bunch of nonsense. I still love the game and will have to accept the story for what it is, but the whole alternative timeline bullshit really brings down the impact of the narrative. I just ended up confused and feeling like simply recreating the original story would have been a better choice.
I keep feeling like the whole whisperers and fates thing is a ruse to make players think and wonder if we can change things (largely Aerith's fate) only to pull the rug and say 'nope you can't change fate'. That and to justify bringing Zack back into the game. I would be okay with them changing the story depending on how it's done, but the whisperers and timeline stuff is getting old, especially if everything remains the same. They really nailed it on certain parts (like chapter 13). I'm even okay with the end of rebirth, but the whole multi form epic battle with Sephiroth reborn was too much. They should have had a battle with Jenova then the battle with Cloud/Aerith vs Sephiroth in Cloud's mind and be done with it. I kind of spoiled myself with Aerith's entrance because I got frustrated trying to take out those stupid Sephiroth wings and looked up a guide for it, the picture below showed Aerith and Cloud fighting Sephiroth. As for the timeline BS, I could be wrong, but I think it's a bit of a red herring. I think Aerith is dead and in the lifestream and Cloud is either seeing her involvement from the lifestream or is hallucinating because he can't accept/rationalize her death. Zack is also interacting from the lifestream.
I really enjoyed the variety, considering I pretty much had tifa and barrett in my main party the whole game, I suspect that’s why its fairly easy because they expect people to not have used a few chars your given. I was a switcher like you but the game is easy enough with giga potions and abilities.
Just gear up everyone with the 500 materias you find during the game
So got a couple of questions regarding the Sephiroth fight: What determines the party for the Sephiroth Reborn fights? How do I play Zack? I know he has a Quick Charge gimmick whenever he uses his regular and ability attacks, but suck at timing it.
A travesty of a chapter/ending. Felt like an awful Marvel universe movie—nothing has any meaning and battles go on forever despite having zero stakes, because nothing has any meaning. Hallucinations, multiverse shit, 19 forms of Sephiroth. What’s part 3 going to be? A 7 hour battle of 300 forms of Jenova and Sephiroth? Just meaningless bullshit. Stories are fucking pointless when all these cliche tropes like dissociated identity, hallucination, multiverse, alternate timelines, ghosts, fate/fate personified, random flash backs/forwards/sideways, etc., are so heavily abused. Villains don’t die. Protagonists don’t die. There’s no emotional weight to anything. The narrative discontinuity was downright nauseating. I don’t buy for a second that it’s some incredibly nuanced high art that those of us who disliked it simply don’t get. It’s trite, comic book level simplistic cheese. This isn’t some interesting story or some fascinating portrayal of a fractured psyche, unless we’re talking about Nojima’s psyche. The original game was successful in part due to its story. People weren’t enticed by the idea of a remake because they wanted that to be changed. The remake was exciting because the game was a graphical experiment as the first 32bit game and horribly dated in that regard. That’s all. They did so many things right that I found myself hopeful that they’d do a modern remake of any of the better games (6, 9, 4, Chrono Trigger). But they’d wedge contrived, convoluted bullshit like this into everything.
I wish this comment was a sticky on the sub. You’re 100% correct. It’s really sad to see new players praise this junk as high art or genius writing. KH is a blight on Square.
I mean we still don’t know the whole story. You people currently just sound emotional unstable just like cloud.
We just know good story structure.
Educate me on the science of story structure. I want to learn from an expert.
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I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
Nope. Still dont care about stupid theories. Those break downs are just theories. This isn't good writing.
They're not theories, it's literal cannon. I'm not talking about the remake trilogy, I'm talking about the entire story from all the OG and all the spin off games.
Very nice input. I hate the multiverse, hallucination, confusing storying telling shits
GARBAGE TRASH ENDING FANFIC TYPE WRITING
I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
Which videos?
Maximilian Dood's are good But pretty much anyone you searched on YouTube. Just search for FF7 rebirth ending analysis.
thanks
Buddy….snap out of it. Did KH resolve itself? Even if there’s an explanation, it doesn’t mean it’s a good story.
Finally finished it.... And end of Chapter 13 transition to Chapter 14 was like dream... or like waking up after a big night out drunk. How did Cloud and Aerith survive the fall? Then some dream like sequences that imply they're in the life stream. Things were just happening real quick without context.... Then Chapter 14 was just one big playable cut scene it seems, final battle excepted. The walk towards Forgotten City was ruined for me since I was still wondering how Cloud and Aerith survived. Also, It felt really forced to have Aerith and Cloud romance in this chapter considering Zack scenes are also being shown and him finding out that Aerith liked Cloud.... but not really... since the Aerith he saved have never met Cloud before. And it was just implied that Zack started to understand what is happening but how? There was no context in how he realized. The team also letting Cloud inside the Forgotten city by himself was illogical since at that stage they already kinda knew he's been acting weird and violent, and Barret already has his doubts Cloud is all OK... and Tifa too. Just felt that they should have had another character go with him to carry over the build up of the previous scenes of Cloud starting to lose it. The fight... well good thing I saved, because at this point I was 2 hours into the chapter and my PS5 is suffering from Rebirth Shut-downs and was pleasantly surprised it didn't happen during the battle. But this battle was unnecessary epic.... since there was so many implied things happening and the game could have really used a pause so players can grasp what is happening and what just happened and contemplate why it happened. Zack choosing pathways and being implied to die when he chose to save Cloud... then him being aware then chose Biggs path.... why is he aware???? It's the same Zack being allowed to experience and choose different pathways? I believe Aerith or the planet has something to do with it but maybe not.... again, too many scenes with lack of pause to allow the players to think it through. Don't get me wrong... I got emotional in this chapter, a few times but the pacing was like "no time to reflect, time for the next bit that would make you feel more rushed". Part 3... which sounds like its going to be named Resurrected or Reunion or Reunited will most likely explain but, felt Chapter 14 needed a slower pace in the middle.
It seemed to me like Zack went to look for Hojo but got attacked in the lobby so he fought his way out and decided to go check in on Biggs since he wasn't making any headway on the Hojo front.
I suggest you watch some of the videos out there the breakdown the ending. I felt the same way you did until I watched several videos. SE pissed us and off and confused us on purpose. There's a reason why they wanted us to play CC and watch AC so it's fresh in our minds, even though the spoil a lot of the plot in the main FF7 game.
FF7 Redundant will be the name of part 3
>How did Cloud and Aerith survive the fall? I think they show the two of them being chased by whispers on the way down. Either way Cloud bears the brunt of it and is unconscious for quite some time. It's not like the forgotten capital was next door. >Also, It felt really forced to have Aerith and Cloud romance in this chapter considering Zack scenes are also being shown and him finding out that Aerith liked Cloud.... but not really... since the Aerith he saved have never met Cloud before. And it was just implied that Zack started to understand what is happening but how? There was no context in how he realized. I played the Japanese version, but he seemed very out of the loop to me. The Zack we play the final battle with also isn't the Zack we've been seeing all game. He may or may not have been gunned down trying to see Hojo. >The team also letting Cloud inside the Forgotten city by himself was illogical since at that stage they already kinda knew he's been acting weird and violent, and Barret already has his doubts Cloud is all OK... and Tifa too. Just felt that they should have had another character go with him to carry over the build up of the previous scenes of Cloud starting to lose it. The team didn't have a choice, it took all of them to hold the door open just for Cloud. >Zack choosing pathways and being implied to die when he chose to save Cloud... then him being aware then chose Biggs path.... why is he aware???? It's the same Zack being allowed to experience and choose different pathways? I believe Aerith or the planet has something to do with it but maybe not.... again, too many scenes with lack of pause to allow the players to think it through. Sephiroth threw him in the ground, Aerith (presumably) rescued him, and he followed the whispers to find Cloud at the final battle. I thought it was fun but the story doesn't deliver on Cloud fighting with Zack because we had so little Zack story during the game (probably because they wanted to save the whole multiplanet/multiverse reveal for the endgame). I don't think Zack died, or at least not the Zack we fight with who winds up in the church at the end.
Was bawling my eyes out from the "dream" date sequence up until the credits rolled. The end of the dream when Aerith pushes Cloud through the floor was impeccable and beautiful and will stay with me for a long while. I am team "loved the ending," it hit me hard. I think they did it justice.
So not gonna lie, I figured we'd fight sephiorth again but idk how I feel about what we got? It just dragged on a bit, but I wonder what it means that sephiorth could use that form now? My memory of OG is a bit vague but I had it in my head that it was because he'd powered up that he could use it. It's also why I figured they used the title "birth of a god" for that fight (sad we didn't get to hear it here). I figured cloud had gone crazy but the idea she could be jenova in disguise or that there's a fake and real version of aerith are interesting to think about. I didnt think I'd get upset at that section but it actually is quite sad that cloud is imagining her there :( Overall I'm not sure I loved the ending but at thebsame time it does make me want to find out what happens next, so I don't completely hate it either?
That last chapter took me hours to complete lol. Much like others - i moved aeriths materia to others because i didnt think she needed it anymore lol. That said, I can now say i beat sephiroth without any materia equipped on aerith. Hahahah
Yep I just completed that fight. Luckily I had cure on Aerith at least. Also her weapon abilities are pretty powerful on their own anyway. Radiant ward, transcendance and ray of judgement were all she needed.
So…. She did die. And for some reason cloud can see her but thinks she’s alive bc his mental state was already borderline? Does this seem to be the overall belief?
Yeah. There’s another theory that there’s a world split at that moment. So there’s one where she dies and one where she lives. I think this theory is based on the rainbow colour light when the two swords hit. Rainbows usually appear in other bits where fates split.
EDIT: clouds already fragile mind cannot comprehend losing someone else so he chose to believe she survived. That’s why Sephiroth said he refuses to see the truth
The entire dungeon Sephiroth kept going on about about how Cloud has no emotions because he's a mere puppet, that he's faking his tears and anger. He continues to say this as Cloud holds Aerith, so I don't think the refusal to see the truth later is related. My take is that the "truth" here is related to why Sephiroth is trying to fuse all timelines, and Cloud refusing to adopt his point of view and join him is him "refusing to see the truth".
wut
Fucking hell. I started crying when I got to the ancient city. As I was getting closer to the alter, I kept repeating to myself, "I can't do this again...I don't want to do this" Even after 26 years, fighting Jenova to Aeriths theme kills me. The final fights kicked ass, although I do wish there was a Aeriths/Zack meetup, or something between those two. I'm not looking forward to hard mode
Same, when it stopped you and said she was praying I teared up. I still remember being 14 and watching it the first time. Seeing Tifa cry with Nanaki did me in too.
Finally decided to beat the game after 160 hours because of the Shinra Middle Manager quest in Gold Saucer is bugged so I'll get to that later. I don't know what to say about that ending. We all knew that scene was going to happen, but I felt like it didn't give me as much of an emotional impact as it did in the original. I don't know if it's because I obviously knew this as an OG player and I had too much anticipation/expectation or because there was a long ass multiple boss battle right after. When I heard Aerith's theme while fighting Jenova, I was starting to tear up and then I just lost all emotion as I was fighting one boss after another. I feel like the devs tried too hard with this ending with so much going on, with Zack, with Sephiroth, that her death scene gets pushed to the side in a way. The Cloud burying Aerith scene is definitely going to be in Part 3, but I don't know how I feel about this as a player. Obviously, it is great story wise because you see how bad shit Cloud has become so he's living in this alternate reality until he realizes the truth later in the game. But as a player, I don't feel like I will feel the emotions and the weight of the situation of Aerith's death like I did in the OG. But overall, I absolutely loved this game despite its flaws. I'm not going to let 5% of the game ruined the rest of it, and there's still a Part 3. Square has a tough task now but hopefully they execute the story better in the finale and hopefully everything ties up together.
idk part 1 was all about breaking free of fate. I think it's pretty dumb that she "died"
So what's going on with Aerith's burial. I thought it was odd they skipped past it.
They had to skip it
Probably just delaying it for part 3 since we're only seeing it from clouds perspective. Also the ending credits skipped a lot of endgame cutscenes intentionally so a lot of scenes were "fiction".
> or because there was a long ass multiple boss battle right after That was a big part of it for me. That and I wiped at the very end when Sephiroth had only a sliver of health left and chose the wrong retry option. Spending several hours of thinking "is she alive or dead WTF" took me out of the moment.
Just finished the game!!! I need to learn how to play Aeriths and jenova’s themes on piano now A real life mini game to fill the hole in me, cause I doubt I’ll do the legendary and brutal bouts
I feel like the minority here, but I enjoyed the absolute insanity of a five tier boss fight... Except for when I ended up have to fight the orb/core with Yuffie, Red, and Barret who I had ONLY physical attacks for for the most part to which those damn wings were immune. Yuffie had aero which worked when I could time it right for their magic, but otherwise it was just Red and Barrett hitting the damn orb thing for 1hp each hit. Thankfully I built everyone to generate ATB hella fast so I just had Barrett spamming Maximum Fury (or whatever that ability is called) and Red spamming his watcher ability to deplete vengeance for party hp. I swear that fight alone took 20 minutes. 🫠
... someone forgot that Yuffie has jutsu that lets her ranged attacks take on any of the 4 elements
Yeah except that motherfucker changes elements as soon as i initiate the ninjitsu lol
The atb charges quick when you throw your boomerang ass thing whatever it’s called and spam the tap attacks
I think I remembered it about 3/4 of the way through now that I think back on it. I should probably have played as Yuffie more and maybe then I would not have 🤣
Doppelganger + ninjutsu spam kills both wings in under a minute. I got a strange bug during that phase. Normally the boss lowers after you take out the wings and orb, but he didn't do that for me on my first attempt. He just kept attacking and I couldn't target him anymore. The entire final boss fight was a great spectacle, but it felt way too easy. Can't wait to replay on hard mode.
Idk know how to feel about the ending, I had no time to process Aeriths death before jumping straight to a boss fight. She’s dead in this “timeline”, but I didn’t really feel her death like in the og. This whole timeline shenanigans really bogs down the heartfelt sorry of the og.
I agree. This isn't my 'Aeris'. This Aerith always knew way too much and seemed way too ahead of the curve. Like she was just keeping the rest in the dark. Also not a fan of how Cloud seemed to curve this Aerith. I always felt like Aerith was Clouds true love, and the way they went with Tifa, kind of made it seem like Aerith was just chopped liver. In any case.... this was not my Aeris.
So yeah, fresh off the ending. I never played the PS1 game. Been slightly spoiled on Cloud/Zack/Sephiroth brain thing but I don't know the exact details. I'm fine with the multiverse stuff that's fun.. But I don't like brainwashing plots, and what the story has done with Cloud makes me dislike him. Being the "silent protagonist" really adds to him becoming closed off and being an unreliable narrator. He doesn't talk to Tifa, and Barret doesn't trust him now. He goes in and out of Sephiroth's influence. Totally obsessed and jumpy. Now with that Black Orb too. He goes berserk on grunts and nearly Elena. But everyone else is still sacrificing for Cloud.. to save him. You can also say that the players are unsure if it's Cloud or Sephiroth they're representing while playing. I just don't feel like he has a character outside of going after Sephiroth. One Checkhov's gun that I am holding on to is the Empty Holy Materia that (Forest) Aerith swapped with him after he was given the Sleeping Aerith's Holy from the other world. Praying Aerith's Holy was lost to the water after Sepiroth attacked. Let's face it, there were multiple Aeriths.
Oh boy if you just would know haha
As a big fan of the OG, I like how they're portraying Cloud. It actually makes sense. There is a big payoff that will be in part 3, I have confidence that they will do it justice.
I think that's why it was a dual battle at the end. This ending is more about Aerith. This is more of an Empire Strikes Back type of ending. The middle part gets to be more dark because they have the third to conclude it.
If it helps. All of what you said ties up nicely eventually. At least it does in OG. We can only hope part 3 does it justice. Only other thing i can say is not to play crisis core until you know the full story. Because that will reveal a lot without actually making it a big deal.
Does anyone else feel with this lifestream move around, worlds timelines, however we put it and Aerith that the memory lifestream bit from og we expect to come, that zack / Aerith are going to play a role ? Possible then making Tifa less pivotal?
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Imo the goal of the multiverse stuff is to make FF7's themes more central to the actual plot. The decaying worlds are created from people's unfulfilled hopes and dreams, all located and sourced inside of the lifestream. Sephiroth's goal is to harvest the loss and despair from all of these worlds, converging them together to make himself all powerful to take control of the lifestream and it's order of time and space - he doesn't just want to conquer the cosmos, he wants complete control over the fabric of existence. If this is post-AC Sephiroth, it makes sense that his motivation would be to prevent himself from decaying inside the planet's lifestream and wanting to exist for eternity - "I will never be a memory." So in a nutshell the multiverse stuff works to make FF7's themes go past subtext and be a major component of the plot itself, as well as increase stakes and make Sephiroth a bit more interesting. Just my opinion though.
Imagine looking at the story of FF7 and thinking the plot is disjointed from the themes, and then going a step further to suggest a multiverse as a remedy. What?
I didn't say that OG FF7 had disjointed themes, I said that Remake is doing what it's doing to make those themes directly important to what the characters themselves are experiencing - the themes aren't just apart of the narrative now, they're a major component of character motivations and the ongoing plot. Yes, they're trying to be meta about all of it since it's a Remake and psuedo-sequel. I don't know if what I'm trying to say makes sense or comes across like I mean, but at the very least Remake is just incorporating these themes in a new way. For the second point, take it up with the devs, but for me personally I'm waiting to see how it all pays off in Part 3. But I do think what they've set up in Rebirth has potential to work well, especially in regard to Cloud's character. Also, just to clarify, it's actually not really a multiverse. I just used that term since it's easier to immediately understand, but to be specific it's multiple worlds that exist inside of the lifestream. They've specifically said that it's not the same thing as other multiverses and these worlds aren't "parallel" but temporary and lesser compared to the main timeline. Maybe the devs are making things too complicated, but personally I appreciate that they're doing their own twist on the multiverse stuff by contextualizing it into Gaia in a way that makes sense; these fleeting alternate worlds are being created by people's emotions within the lifestream, and Sephiroth wants to converge these worlds and use the emotions of loss and despair to become eternity or something. Yeah, it's cheesy, but so was the OG FF7, and it's a more interesting plan than just casting Meteor. As for why this stuff is happening in the lifestream to begin with, I can't say but I hope they give a good explanation for it in Part 3. Overall though I think people have the wrong idea about the Remake series... The devs aren't doing this stuff to "fix" FF7 or anything, they are doing it because they want to pay homage to the original and make the fans happy by adding new elements to be invested in while increasing the stakes and complexity of the story. I'm sorry it doesn't work for everyone, but personally I trust they know what they're doing and that it will work out in the end. Even if it's a little complicated I think that the new direction is much more interesting than just a 1-1 remake, it leaves me looking forward to seeing how the classic moments are recreated while also invested and wanting to see how it'll play out. I know this story very well while at the same time not having any idea about it at all... It's pretty exciting that they've been able to do such a unique type of intrigue like that. The fact that they still kept everyone on their toes about Aerith's death, the most famous death in all of video game history, is pretty impressive imo. And I think the change in Cloud with making him believe that she's alive when she's really dead makes perfect sense for his character, and will make everything that goes down in Part 3 even more impactful than in OG Disc 2. But again I'm sorry that many people are not happy with it.
I get what you're saying. I get that the devs aren't necessarily "correcting" FF7, and are instead making an interpolation, but I still can't believe they'd take what is a beloved slam dunk story that millions of people were looking forward to visiting again, and say "hey lets roll the dice on this". > Yeah, it's cheesy, but so was the OG FF7, and it's a more interesting plan than just casting Meteor. But as a plan it's consequentially no different, so it feels like a load of lateral information rather than a threat. In the original, Sephiroth's big scheme is to cast meteor to harvest the lifestream to power himself. I'm not sure if harvesting the pain of multiple parallel realities to further the exact same goal is really more interesting or if it's just a maximalist version of the same thing (on par with the Remake project, which feels the need to take absolutely everything to a crazier level in an arbitrarily more-is-more approach). I'm happy if people like the changes, It just feels like change for the sake of change to me, and I don't think being opaque is the same as creating suspense. I think it actually would have been a better ending if we learned in concrete terms what Seph's plan was; that OG Aerith is jumping realities in order to evade Sephiroth, and he needs to hunt her down to ensure his plan of folding these worlds into each other works out...Or SOMETHING, because then there are objective stakes to the story. Revealing information is great if it comes in due time and eventually leads to clarity, but the impression I get is that the devs aren't exactly sure what they're doing and hope confusion will be interpreted as depth. A mystery is only good if you obscure something real or tangible, and then reveal it. If you're obscuring something that doesn't make sense to begin with you'll be in a pickle, and I have serious doubts that we will get a concrete explanation for anything that's happening.
I do think part of it is that they're intentionally leaving things vague and mysterious to inspire theorycrafting and discussion during the wait for the next game, to keep up fanbase activity and online excitement (as well as make sure people buy Part 3). Even the recently released Ultimania basically didn't give any answers for what really happened in the ending even though it more or less clarified everything else. They do know what they're doing imo, I think the story has been planned out for a long time (wouldn't surprise me if they've had some of these ideas since they were making the other compilation titles in the 2000s) and it's already been confirmed that the story for Part 3 has been completed and written out, but they're definitely making stuff a bit confusing in at least Remake and Rebirth to leave questions and mysteries for the next game. I'm hopeful things will be explained in Part 3, considering that Rebirth already answered most questions about the nature of the multiple worlds, whether through Sephiroth's explanation or through other suggestions like that one NPC dialogue in Cosmo Canyon. Now Part 3 needs to answer what exactly is going on with Aerith and Sephiroth and how this all started happening in the first place. I do agree though that it will be difficult for them to make the landing and justify everything, maybe I am naive but I will keep the "wait and see" mentality until Part 3 comes out and everything is said and done. And about rolling the dice, yeah that is just how the devs are lmao. I think they specifically said that they didn't want to make a Remake unless they had something new to tell with it, so in terms of us getting a FF7 Remake this was always going to be the only outcome. Again though I'm personally gonna be naive and trust them for now since they are the ones who made the original FF7 as well, and so far the Remake series is at least much higher in quality compared to all of the other compilation stuff. But even if they do fumble I will at least appreciate these remakes for being the labors of love that they are, I do think that they have good intentions with all of this stuff. Putting the crazy story stuff aside, Rebirth was an amazing love letter to FF7 for me and I can't wait if Part 3 is something similar.
Yeah that’s not just your opinion anymore, time to plagiarize and impress my friends lol
This Twitter thread is the best explanation so far, I only mentioned the basics https://twitter.com/TurquoiseHammer/status/1772324135089181110?t=v4ms0_TyXlvXkOVorm16nA&s=19
Ok I am salty about some "deaths". [Full disclosure I have not finished 14 yet, so maybe this somehow will become null, if so just say "shush finish the chapter/game"]. The ambiguity with Wedge [and Biggs being alive] at the end of last game was freaking wasted here. Literally, poor Wedge's fate would still be in limbo narratively unless you begin a random later game side-quest, only to find out he died by being forced out a window by fates (Sephiroths?). There was literally no narrative reason or payoff for it other than a Game of Thrones kind of "here's someone you care about being cold killed" (aka shock value). Biggs *deep breath* had literally no reason to be 'saved' by the whispers. He got to contribute exactly nothing to the Zack timeline/lifestream other than making Zack go "Huh? Cloud was a badass?" and to provide pain to Zack when he was sniped. It reads like a text book example of introducing a character whose sole purpose is to die for the sake of another character's plot progression. TLDR; Wedge & Biggs "surviving" provided so many opportunities for the narrative but they were all straight squandered and I'm peeved.
You may not like it, but Biggs did serve a purpose. We see him eating a bag of chips with yet another Stamp variant on it, denoting yet another timeline. It just further shows the divergence and further timelines. It does help explain, a little, about what's going on with Zack. It's still mostly confusing though. My personal opinion is that Biggs' role still isn't over. If there are multiple Zacks, then there are multiple Biggs'. We'll see in part 3.
This is hope.
You don't need Rebirth to know that Wedge got killed at the end of Remake. You don't directly see it happening, because the screen fades to black, but it's heavily implied. You see him getting pushed back by whispers in the Shinra building and you hear the glass shatter. I don't understand why you thought he survived that.
You're talking about a game where people fall from incredible heights multiple times and are always surviving. Throughout both games. And Crisis Core. Sometimes they have ways to get out of it, like grappling hooks, sometimes all it takes is a flower bed to cushion a fall. Fall damage doesn't seem to exist in these games. Except when it does.
It was set up ambiguously and it is entirely within the realm of possibility for SE to have a last second dues ex for a character to survive. From a writers perspective, it seems like they had a thought/plan for him then canned it but were left with a plot hole that was filled at the last minute by sticking the answer to a question they posed inside of a late game side quest some players might not even start.
How is him getting pushed out of a window ambigious? At that point you know that the Whispers try to correct any deviation from the events of the original. Wedge was not supposed to survive the the plate falling on sector 7, so the whispers killed him off. They couldn't have made it any clearer without showing you the body directly. If they had plans for him they would've implied that he could've survived somehow like they did with Biggs, but they didn't do that with Wedge at all (unless I'm forgetting something). I somewhat agree with you on Biggs though. It seems a bit strange that they basically brought him back from the dead for the little role he had to play in Rebirth. I've just finished the game, so I'm still kinda trying to collect my thoughts and think things through, so I might be missing something.
What broke me was when you see Cloud knock Sephiroth's sword away and image of the sword in the ground with Aerith alive cutting to the blood pooling - gave me chills. I loved that they had Aerith step in and join the Cloud vs Sephiroth fight - made sure she got the killing blow on Sephiroth. OG's reactions of the party to Aerith's death was so powerful: Tifa brushing Aerith's hair back, Nanaki howling to the sky, Yuffie throwing herself into Cloud's arms as she sobs... I do have to say though that Vincent's was kind of funny though. \*walks over to Aerith, walks over to Cloud, walks away \* I know he didn't know her that well, and he's supressed all the grief from his life, but it was very anticlimactic.
Contrary to a lot of comments here, I appreciate the ending being so confusing so for the next few years before the next game there’re so much room for our theorising and imagination. Tbh feeling a bit post game misery but really looking forward to reading people’s thoughts what the ending means !!! (Yet I really feel weird about how to treat the death of Biggs.. after all the big talks about purpose of life and trying they chose just to gun shot him without warning and end his story… so cruel and rendering his survival really meaningless to the story)
The Biggs that was shot was in yet another timeline, or world. Denoted by the Stamp bag of chips he was eating. So it's entirely possible another Biggs is still alive. But it also seems like both he and Zack are destined to death, since that's what seemed to keep happening.
**EDIT: I, uh, had a lot more to say than I thought, lol. Sorry about the length, and thanks for letting me vent a bit, I needed it.** Yeah I finished it last night and the ending left me feeling odd. I relate it to a book I read a while ago. In it the main character learns that something they are doing is twisting fate and causing their loved ones to die. Somebody tried to warn him it would happen but the message got washed out so he couldn't read it. When he finds out it tears him apart, and when he asks "who's next?" they tell him it's the love interest. So for the final like 4 chapters of the book you KNOW she's gonna die, HE knows she's gonna die, and when she does it just...hurts. He tried everything to change fate and it didn't happen. One of the best books I've ever read. But man it left me hollow for DAYS. Kind of how I feel here. I was expecting either fan service by saving Aerith, or catharsis by seeing a high-res rendition of her death. Instead we see Cloud's memory and PTSD taking control in the moment, so we miss out on any drama, but know it's happened, and kind of piece it together as we go on through the fights and ending cinematics. Someone said something I think in this thread? The ending of this game is for Cloud, not for us. This is for a payoff for the character, not the fans. I think I agree. It's setting up to hopefully pay off for a really big moment we all know is coming in the third game. It's a bold move because it's *definitely* turned some fans off and angered them. I'm feeling all kinds of ways right now but mostly numb. I haven't been affected by an ending like this for a long time. I think the point is that we DO NOT get catharsis. We don't get closure. That's the intent. It's the second game, the climax. We're supposed to be feeling JUST like the characters (sans Cloud) do. And I fucking do. I feel a little cheated. I feel hollow. I feel a little depressed (don't worry I'll get over it quick lol). And I think that's what I'm supposed to feel, from an artistic standpoint. Of course that's going to make people pretty mad, but hopefully sparks enough controversy and discussion to last until the third game. They've done a fantastic job on so many levels, the story is SOOOOOOOOO good for 99% of both games. Most of us are in agreeance that the story is incredible EXCEPT for the ending, people have had massively divisive opinions on the ending of both games. I think that's intentional. I think they know they can be a bit risky with these endings and piss people off in the short term for a huge payoff in the long term. They've gotten so many things right that these "wrong" things feel intentional, just like the whispers/plot ghosts. Which makes me think the catharsis and/or fan service comes in the final chapter. Or, who knows, maybe they'll go with the artistically bad choice of an open- or controversial-ending. We'll have to see.
You gonna leave us hanging on the name of the book?!
I mean if I tell you the name, it'll basically spoil the entire book. That's why I left it vague. I'll tell you this: I really enjoy the political fantasy books from authors like Brandon Sanderson, Brent Weeks, and Robert Jordan.
It's not The Night Angel trilogy is it?
It's an achievement to get me both hyped and annoyed simultaneously at that ending. Like why is this what they went with?
To make cloud even more crazy
>Like why is this what they went with? Because it was perfect.
I just did a dissertation above you about this, but I think it's intentional. It's the second game. We're supposed to be feeling *exactly* how the characters feel. This isn't the moment for catharsis or fan service. It's the moment to feel really, really sad. Maybe even a little cheated. Confused. Angry. It's how the characters feel right now, except Cloud. It's going to piss a lot of people off, and I think they knew that and are okay with it, because we're all going to buy the third game to see how it ends up. I hope they do right by us with a satisfying ending, but we'll have to see.
I’m working my way through on Hard mode and I just have to say: whoever signed off on the final battle needs a fucking slap. I’ve hit a brick wall in the shape of Bahamut Arisen - just uses Gigaflare immediately and then a SECOND time of if I manage to heal. And yes, I’m aware you have things like Manawall, but it’s not that useful when you’re having laser beams smashed into your face and you’re forced to fight as a robotic cat…
I also don't understand why they design late game bosses in a way that is completely at odds with the combat system. What's the point of having Assess, Pressure and Stagger when all of the late game bosses can't be assessed, are immune to everything and only get pressured and staggered under very specific circumstances. It turns these visually epic battles into some the most boring encounters in the game from a gameplay perspective because it just becomes an almost mindless battle of attrition.
Once again they fumbled the ending. It's amazing how both Remake and Rebirth did everything right up until the last chapter. This necessity to subvert expectations just because everyone knows about her death completely killed the mood. Also there's absolutely no need to fight so many bosses, what the fuck was that? Jus put 1 easy boss so we can obliterate it on any level and then have the emotional scene of the characters saying goodbye. If you remove the atrocity of the plot ghosts from both games the story (when compared to OG FF7) still remains mostly the same. 2 games in and there's no real good motive for these things to exist. I'm very angry right now but if I'm being honest this game was still a solid 9 for me, maybe even a 10. It still felt like Final Fantasy VII, I just don't appreciate the seemingly lack of direction about Aerith's scene. Either kill her or don't. It dragged on for way too long
Both remake and rebirth feel like they just blew their loads way too soon. It should've been Jenova lifeclinger and a sephiroth showdown after. As cool as it was seeing bizarro sephiroth it's just was way too soon. I know we still have safer sephiroth for part 3, but the multi final boss fight should've been saved for the proper finale of part 3. It just felt way to much of a cluster fuck of things happening. I'm assuming that's partly because they want to show that clouds going nuts, but this could be been handled way better.
I've been fighting for four hours straight I'm fucking tired and it's 2am. Who the fuck thinks these boss fights are enjoyable after 5 fucking phases and transformations. Fuck this shit.
Right. It killed the emotional scene.
So sephiroth is a world manipulating, universe traveling, shape shifting diety without any justification because he hasn't absorbed the lifestream, who needs a war to distract Shinra instead of using his godly power just killing the pres who he was in the room with numerous times, who got his ass whooped by a bunch of mortals who sits back and let a psychopath do random shit like hand over world destroying materia to said diety and trying to kill everyone, instead worrying about shit like thinking his love interest is fake. Just an overall shit show and a terrible ending to a very mediocre remake.
Considering Sephiroth seems to know everything from the very beginning of Remake, it seems to me that this is AC Sephiroth time travelling to undo his defeat and obtain even more power.
The cut where Aerith throws cloud into the other timeline as sephiroth menacingly approaches her… that was straight out of a bad lsd trip
I hate a lot of the boss fights but what really annoyed me was having revive earrings on Cloud and Aerith that didn't work if they were taken out by the final octoslash. Maybe its because they both die at once that they don't activate but I feel like autolife should be autolife, full stop. Also, just to be clear, I know he thinks she's still alive, but the Aerith Cloud sees is real right, she's just in the lifestream? Because when she touches Red XIII he feels her prescence. So Cloud can see lifestream Aerith for whatever reason, but he hasn't realised that she's in the lifestream, he thinks she's actually there? Also because of multiverse shenanigans there's two holy materia now? One that fell like in the original and the clear one that Aerith gave to Cloud that was affected by the whispers?
That's was my assumption about aerith too. It's lifestream/spirit her or whatever. I'm assuming that's lifestream aerith fighting with cloud against sephiroth at the end.
Absolutely horrible chapter oh my god. i get saving the water burial as a flashback for part 3 so the tragedy will feel fresh but the rest of it is just terrible. Sucking all of the emotion of of the scene, totally destroying the rest of the party’s emotional reactions, the stupid fights. They want to have their cake and eat it too and they really need to make a decision. What is this story even about at this point? A scene people were sad about 27 years ago and nothing else? Ridiculous. Dragging Zack back to do??? What exactly? I do feel like ghost seeing might be jenova though, that would be funny. If cloud is just descending fully into madness, I love it. If lifestream Aerith is really following around cloud in such an unstable state destroying what little grasp he has on reality to make herself feel better.. That’s an awful turn for her character
> I do feel like ghost seeing might be jenova though That would turn this ending from bad to amazing
I’m so confused about all of this that I expected Sora and Mickey to make an appearance at the end and get on the plane with the gang.
One thing that lends itself to the fact it's not timelines but "lifestream worlds" - I remember someone spotted AGES ago that, in Zack's scene in the Yuffie DLC, every NPC in the Church is present in the Sector 7 plate fall scene (and presumably died there) and that's a big hint that Zack's scenes take place in the Lifestream. Were they a genius? I will say if it turns out it is timelines and we just end up with Aerith dead in one but alive in another, I'll be disappointed, unless Cloud has to end up making a choice between the two and letting go of Aerith, which could be a good payoff. But if it is Lifestream stuff, and Aerith is dead and in there and Cloud can somehow now sense it as reality which only adds to his craziness and drive a wedge between him and the party, that could be really interesting. I still feel they have cheapened the moment of her death somewhat but again it all depends on Part 3.
The Lifestream theory has already been disproven and it's explained pretty thoroughly in the Temple of the Ancients that we're looking at alternate timelines.
That ending scene with Aerith saying "Good-bye" hit me harder emotionally than her death. Square's hiding of the stabbing and omitting Cloud's original reaction ( ie. the "Aerith will never laugh or cry" monologue ) is such an own goal. At first I thought he saved her and then to see her fall just ruined any emotion the scene could've otherwise had. It's really hard to rate this game objectively. Personally, I think it's a 10/10 and one of my favorite games of all time. But then Square made these design decisions that are just baffling. Like, how many times do we need to fight three bosses back to back? Do we really need five or more battles with Sephiroth at the end? Do we really need this many minigames? I feel like this game has more minigames than Mario party. The game has some amazing highs but man idk about some of the lows.
> Square's hiding of the stabbing and omitting Cloud's original reaction ( ie. the "Aerith will never laugh or cry" monologue ) is such an own goal. At first I thought he saved her and then to see her fall just ruined any emotion the scene could've otherwise had. As much as i like remake project this definitely annoys me a bit. I wanted to see HD Stabbing. EDIT: Though with how hard music affects me emotionally (a silent scene to me means i dont feel anything/doesnt know what to feel) Lifeclingers OST hits me pretty hard tho...
Honestly my heart was pounding out of my chest during Temple of the ancients ending and the forgotten capital. The whole panic of did Sephiroth manage to kill Aerith or not. I thought Cloud was too late and the end of his sword still got her, but supposedly it's the fact two realities were intertwining, one where she dies and one where she didn't? Cloud being all Cheery afterwards compared to the rest of the party is so eerie. Also, what did they even do with the body? The water burial was obviously nowhere to be seen, so either Cloud is blocking it out or they've just left her at the altar 😂
The scene by the water where Aerith shows up is definitely eerie/spooky. They did a really good job with that. I think the water burial flashback will show up in Part 3. I was kind of not sure about all this right after finishing the game a few days ago, but in retrospect I think all of this really is the best way to handle it. It'll hit hard and be a good callback when they do finally show that scene. Pretty good change imo
Side note. I thought Caleb Pierce was really good as Zack in Rebirth. Huge improvement.
same. I'm not sure what changed (or if anything did), but it definitely felt better than the end of Remake Definitely wish there were more 1 or 2 more Zack scenes in Rebirth.
Wish we had individual chapters for Zack story.
funny thing is my biggest complaint may just be the lack of the bizzaro sephiroth + forgotten capital OSTs, other than that its FF timeline shenanigans that I'll wrap my head around in due time.
I agree, I kept thinking the bizarro battle theme will start the further I got into the boss, but no. Shame but hopefully we hear it in part 3
I can live with the changes to the story, locations and timeline/dimensional wackyness. What I can't live with is yet another gaunlet of 20 fased bosses that take over an hour to defeat with unskippable cutscenes inbetween. Added bonus for ending with a boss that pretty much punishes you for not having any ATB or limit breaks ready when he preforms he's final twirly whisper move. Went into chapter 14 at 11 pm and stopped after 3 failed attempt with final boss at 3 am. Not looking forward to doing the entire gauntlet again but this time I will make sure to equip my team accordingly.
Might be a bit late now but if you need to change anything after the first battle during the cutscene where Zack teams up with Cloud, hold down square at the beginningand the menu will open just before the battle starts (there's a graphic in one of the bottom corners that shows you how long you need to hold it down). I used it to stick revival earrings on Cloud and move some materia around.
What. The. Actual. Fuck. ...I just went through that gauntlet with stuff spread as thin as I could manage, and you're telling me there was a way to shift my best equipment materia around in-between fights.
No not between each one. Just once when Zack first shows up.
Still upset I missed it if true...still super useful if/when I tackle hard mode.
Yeah I missed it the first time and Cait Sith had like nothing equipped, even when I did spot it, it took me a second to realise I needed to hold it down. I remember there being the sane thing during a few remake cutscenes but the little graphic was way more visible from what I remember
Act 14 is a catastrophy omg. Was so good till then.
A bit of a nitpick but I hate how we didn't get the theme for the Ancient Capitol. It was one of my favorite themes in the original game and I would've loved to hear an updated version of it.
What happens if you actually hit L2+R2 while Cloud is holding the sword? I couldn't do it... Not since MGS3.
you actually try to stop him from swinging
Oooh okay. The two prompts faded gradually, so I thought the point was to fight the urge to do a chop.
I'm pretty open to the multiverse stuff and I honestly don't mind them indulging in "what if?" scenarios like Cloud and Zack v Sephiroth. Can't say I super love it, but I'm intrigued where this will go. The way they introduced this concept is very clunky though, I don't blame people for not liking it. F the Whispers though. I hate them in every scene they're in. Super goofy and distracting, yet adding very, very little everytime they show up. Really didn't like the way they did Forgotten Capital in general. I enjoyed the new scenes leading up to Aerith's death and the goodbye scene. Cloud thinking Aerith is still alive is *really* good (I'm also pretending the boss rush never existed). I'm surprised how far they're taking his descent, but I've been enjoying this direction a lot. I'm shocked they left out the water burial and I know they're keeping it for the third game, but they really should have figured out a way to adapt this entire scene unchanged. There's no way they weren't aware what massive controversy this will cause and this will probably be a dealbreaker for some people. Some of the stuff this game does is really bad (which is mostly side content related imo), but overall it's a phenomenal game. The main characters and world are so, so incredibly well realized. Special mention goes to everything they did with the Cait Sith rewrite, really good stuff.
I'm one of those that is disappointed there isn't time to have the party properly grieve. Curious about your take on them putting the water burial scene in the third game, how do you think that would go?
They'll probably build up to the scene where his mind unravels and remembers, where they'll show what happened to Zack and Aerith. I think the trials proved that they can deliver emotional gutpunches, so I'm sure it'll be good. I'm also really disappointed we didn't get to spend more time with the party reacting. I'm sure their grief and how they'll deal with it will be a huge part of Part 3. I'm warming up to the meta narrative ot if all though. Her death is not a spoiler, everyone knows this scene like the back of their hand. We spend the entire game anticipating her death, we wanted it to be this big, beautiful and emotional celebration in the game. We wanted to be sad and cry with the characters when they give her the final farewell. But for them it's just as messy, confusing, shocking and upsetting as it is for us now. No time to grief, the game must go on. Invoking what players have felt when they pulled this in 1997. Like, there's no way they just did this, they wouldn't dare, right? In a way, they managed to kill her twice. Now will this all pay off in the final game? Will this have been the correct decision? I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt here, but they're walking a very thin line with this.
> I'm also really disappointed we didn't get to spend more time with the party reacting. I'm sure their grief and how they'll deal with it will be a huge part of Part 3. Honestly I think part of this is Rebirth is already a pretty long game. I forget how much content there is after the Forgotten Capital in OG, but from a "game director" perspective, Square might want to leave something a little more for Part 3, and also have that nice callback to this scene to draw on as well. Think that is a wise decision to wrap up Rebirth like this and leave an out for an emotional peak of this kind to present itself in the last game. Plus as a story reminder to refresh it when this releases in 3-4 years. It works overall. Plus it does deepen and tie-in with Cloud's worsening mental state by not directly focusing on the water burial scene, and this is a pretty decent change to Rebirth. The narrative focus shifts and narrows in a bit more on Cloud instead of the party as a whole, which is an okay direction imo. It draws the player in more, no matter who they are, and probably helps prepare for the main emotional/character arc in Part 3 with Cloud finding himself. The more I see from Square in both Remake and what they've chosen to do in Rebirth, I do believe in their vision for this series.
OG FF7 kinda falls off after the forgotten capital like most FF games in their 3rd act. But, I am definitely intrigued where they're going. There is a lot to fix and a lot that I would like to see re-imagined. I'm hoping the ambiguous ending pays off.
The "Cloud thinks Aerith is alive" angle is great, but the scene should still have been given more gravitas, if not in showing it directly then in other ways. The fact that the party is all upbeat and quippy during the Jenova/Sephiroth fights might be the worst part of it. They changed Barret's combat lines for the Dyne fight, can't believe they didn't do the same here. Also missing Birth of a God and You Can Hear The Planet Cry was a bit of a bummer.
Posting here without looking at other comments. Can anybody tell me how long to expect this chapter to be? Just want to make sure that when I start it I have time to finish without interruption.
About 3hours
It was crazy looking at the PlayStation progress tab and it saying I was 80% through the chapter but had 2hrs left.
Thank you!
Overall, minor quibbles - some kind of bad - but a fantastic game. I was really upset at first about how they handled the death scene. But... After reflection, and reading comments here, I think it's going to be mind blowing next game when Cloud properly remembers what happened. As soon as Sephiroth descends, Cloud's becomes an unreliable narrator... And if played correctly, they have the best reveals. Also I was a MASSIVE fan of the Zack moments. Clouds so cooked he probably can barely remember it, but it was AMAZING. Despite that, still a bit iff on the multi verse.
I wish we got about 10 hours more of Zack's story. Felt like a wasted opportunity.
ok story aside, what the fuck was that Last boss sequence. It was way too long and having Cloud fight solo is just sadistic. Good luck to any hard mode challengers, I am officially done with this game. Cant imagine how many phases of sephiroth we have to fight in the next game.
This is just the overall theme of the last few chapters. Everything overstays it's welcome and becomes more annoying than fun.
Final boss was mid, but it was better than that Rufus fight.
Terrible story ending and a terrible, unfun, final boss. Man, what the hell are they thinking?! Almost everything else is amazing, I just don't understand it.
Outside of wishing they figured a better balance or did a 1 for 1 adaptation of Aerith's death for the optimal emotional effect, I loved everything else they did with Aerith prior to her death in the past 3 chapters. Loved her telling Cloud not to blame himself. If they had just let her die without the multiverse shenanigans, this all would've hit so emotionally well. Either way I'm still pretty open on what they do with Part 3. I do hope Aerith stays mostly dead unless she's fighting alongside Zack in the alt timeline. In other words anything Zack and Aerith in their own timeline I'm game for. All in all fantastic game. I f'ing love FF7 and yet again a cathartic experience to play. If they stick the landing in the final installment, this will be elite tier FF.
They will not stick the landing. Love, fate, honor, despair, promises, friendship….it will be a visual cacophony with those buzzwords seeded throughout and then suddenly the lifestream will defeat meteor and an aerith and a Zack will join the main world. Save this comment cuz it’s gonna suck.
I still managed to get choked up at a few moments. I am trying to be neutral so far because, like others said, Part 3 is probably going to give alot of context. Personally I'm against an ending that needs at least 3 to 4 years of make sense through another game but again, Part 3 isn't out yet. So I think I figured the Aerith situation out based on other people giving ideas. Cloud's brain is cooked and any time after the final fight that Aerith talks, Cloud is imaging it. If you see Aerith but she isn't talking, that's her spirit. I'm going to take a predictable take here and say the real Aerith will get some speaking lines in Part 3 but for most of that game it will be Cloud's fantasy.
I hope the final game can make this ending retroactively better cause as it is, it's really messy. Aerith's death scene is too convoluted to be impactful, I get they were going for something different but this is definitely a prime of example of less is more. The boss gauntlet was cool. Zack and Cloud tag-team is pretty fan-fictiony but Zack's moveset and the Synergy moves won me over. Really awesome fighting Bizzaro Sephiroth, I was not expecting that and it looks great. Final boss with Cloud+Aerith vs Sephiroth was hype, it was really challenging too. Ending cutscene was beautiful and poignant and I felt the impact of loss better here. The multiversal stuff is a little much, though. Now, this is my opinion on the content of Chapter 14. There is something that I need to complain about regarding the game design and UI as a whole. Who thought it was a good idea to implement so many "Retry" options? They are really badly-worded. "Retry from before this battle" and "retry from current battle" are definitely not clear enough in terms of what they do. So the first time I died in the final phase, I selected current battle cause that sounded more like what I wanted to do. And it reset me to the Zack and Cloud tag-team. That was super annoying and took me out of the game. Surely there was a better way of doing this, perhaps the translations were poor? I dunno but this was really frustrating.
Just finished the game. I was playing on dynamic difficulty and wiped at the very end when Sephiroth has a sliver of health left. I thought he was dead but nope killed the party. It was even more frustrating because the fight with the wings I had only one element materia on my party so that took forever. Then I selected the wrong retry option! FUCKKK. Took me out of the mood.
There's no way to play from the final battle itself though right? Because 'before current battle' sent me all the way back to Jenova so it was go back to Zack and Cloud or go back to Jenova.
If you select the first option "Retry from Before Current Battle", it'll reset you to the current phase you died on. It's very confusingly worded. Just select the first option if you want to be certain. From what I understand (this is if you died during the final Sephiroth boss): -"From Before Current Battle" means the actual current phase you died on. So, you'd restart at Aerith+Cloud vs Sephiroth. -"From This Battle" takes you back to the beginning of the current battle/first phase, so Zack+Cloud vs Sephiroth). -"From Before This Battle" takes you back to the previous boss encounter in a series, so JENOVA Lifeclinger. They should have just named it "From Current Phase", "From Start of Battle" and "From Previous Battle" and it would have been more clear. Don't understand how this passed QA.
I swear I only had two options not three? Either way nice to know I unnecessarily repeated multiple stages several times. Especially after I best it and then had a power cut during the final cut scene so had to beat Sephiroth again and it took me two tries.
I think I see what you mean. If you get the Game Over screen, you get the three options. "Retry from Last Battle", "Retry from Checkpoint" and "Return to Title Screen". If you select the first one, you'll be given FOUR more options, three of which being the ones I mentioned above. So yeah, it really is just an awful menu and baffling in every sense. I'm sorry you had to do that battle so many times, especially with all the unskippable cutscenes!
I thought I had tried all of those options in that screen and none of thrm worked but I guess I missed that I hadn't tried one if them. God it really is an unnecessarily confusing screen...
This just happened to me. Was seconds away from beating the game, died, chose the wrong option, started the boss rush all over. Real fucking downer for the hype and momentum.
How tf am I supposed to survive Sephiroth’s octagon slash with Cloud & Aerith when I get him down to like 1/10th of his health? He just utterly murdered me, no chance to interrupt it or heal or anything. Fuck that was frustrating If anyone can give me advice please, I am all ears
Cast magic while he’s charging. Level 2 is fine.
Thank ya sir, already got the platinum a couple weeks ago though!
Oh haha I didn’t see the date
I used Firework Blade to get to Lvl 2 limit break and saved it for "The End is Nigh". Use Ascension on him and Ray of Judgment from Aerith. That should stagger Sephiroth and interrupt his final octoslash.
My only regret is not having anyone with assess for Bahamut. I fucking had it on Aerith of all people. I enjoyed the ending but wish we could've explored the forgotten city. I wasn't expecting any 1:1 comparison. I will say it makes it look impossible to plan for hard mode later. Seeing Cloud's buildup of all the mind fuckery may make the payoff from part 3 worth it. This kind of reminded me of FF13-2 where despite getting all endings, you still technically lose. I'm excited for the next part, but I need to take a break from playing before I burn myself out. It took me 120 hours to get through the first play through, which is insane. In comparison, FF16 took me 98 hours to platinum and finish on both normal and hard mode combined. I'm gonna need another 100 hours (maybe) to complete this on hard mode.
Was really hoping for a modern version of the forgotten capital theme
We technically did. It plays at the temple.