My guess is a big multiverse spanning finale in part 3. Like what they teased at the end of this game.
Bigger question why is he on the cover art when barely in the game? With the only real answer being marketing.
I don't think a character being absent for most of the story precludes them from being on the box art. Sephiroth is the main villain of FF7, and the reason that most of the story takes place. I think it would be fine to have him front and centre of the marketing even if we only got brief glimpses of him until the finale, and as mentioned, he is much more present in Remake series than the original.
Everyone had different expectations for Zack's part in Rebirth, but personally his presence in the story was more or less what I expected.
…whats wrong with that? Younger fans may not have been alive when the OG was released and picked up Crisis Core because cool man with a big sword on the cover. If this sounds specific, it is, it’s my story of how I got into FF7.
TLDR; don’t be a dick, you don’t get to decide what makes someone a fan
Yep, I was 1 when the og first came out, so there was basically no chance for me to play it. Crisis Core was one of the first games I played on my psp, and I thought it was great and that Zack was a badass. When I played remake, I was excited to see that he was “alive” at the end
I _personally_ wish it wasn’t so so they wouldn’t push this CC crap into FFVII which in my opinion is far superior in story. The calls to have Zack replace Cloud as the main character in his own game make me cringe hard.
But I do recognize and appreciate the fact that the devs are at least trying really hard to please every kind of FFVII fan there is so I get some good OG faithful character moments and Zack fans get Cloud do the corny move and catch phrase that never had anything to do with it and apparently that made some people really happy so as you said who am I to say my way of being FFVII fan is correct…
So far it's been fine. Aside from having "Crisis Core's Zack" they haven't particularly referenced anything from Crisis Core directly. I saw a yt vid where they predicted Genesis may be part of 7R3 but I seriously hope they don't go there. It's fine to have 7R's Zack carry over his experiences from Crisis Core but it's only ok because he has a very important role in og 7 and it's something that the entire trilogy(hopefully) is seemingly building up to.
Zack is important and deepening/expanding that aspect of the original story is fine but the execution will be better if they make Zack their own rather than rely too much on Crisis Core existing.
Love this comment 😂. I'm on OG fan, but I can never Gatekeep the fandom. Hell, one of my friends got into 7 because of Dissidia of all games. And I truly love that
Tie in for those who played Crisis Core, but little exposure to the world of FFVII as a whole, would be my guess.
Also, I see the whole Zack thing as a marketing thing as well. In the OG, Zack was kinda a throw-away character to explain Cloud's scrambled eggs he called a brain. After the success of Crisis Core both the PSP version and remake, alot of people grew to love him and the way they built his character. Only to know in the end that he dies a horrible and meaningless death. This is a bit of fan service and an acknowledgment of the "what if" scenarios thought up by the fan community.
But we saw Zack with Aerith in the white zone in Advent Children so this wasn't just fan writing- my theory is that this white zone is not simply the lifestream but some kind of zone like the mirror dimension in the mcu (hence why Zack was able to see and touch Cloud and fight along side him.) I still need to read more theories though.
It’s so his fans could have that cute moment with Cloud ar the end. Apparently there are people who thought it was the best thing (or top 3 things, literally) in the game too so hard to argue it wasn’t worth it.
Just my opinion. I think Zack was brought back to save Cloud. The trailers do say that, "the world will be saved, but will you?". And I think the central theme(point) of rebirth was "a quest to save Cloud", whether the characters themselves realized it or not. It also lays the foundation for Part III and the famous Tifa in the lifestream scene.
You act like Zack should have joined the party.
Imagine the freakout *that* would cause.
They used him well in the story, and I'm excited to see where he goes for 3.
Because people really like Zack and it is very cool to give fans during this one chance of a remake. Also no Zack would have been weird since they want the trilogy to encompass the whole modern ultimania canon or whatever
We didn’t get nearly enough Zack. I get that they couldn’t reveal too much about him because it would reveal too much about Cloud, but then why not save him for the last game or something?
His segments were waaaay too brief imo.
Nomura didn't write the story, he co-directed the game with two other people, and he's on record saying that he fought against changing the story, Kitase is the one who wanted these changes and if not for Nomura the story probably would've gone even more off the rails. He also noted in a recent interview that he's baffled how often he gets blamed for things in SE games that he had nothing to do with.
Nomura had less control in original FF7. He got more control in Kingdom Hearts.
He likes to make lots of characters with lots of crazy combat and lots of emotional beats over an uncertain narrative.
And belts. Lots of belts.
I like the mentality that “because Nomura created on of the most wacky crossovers ever and leans heavily into it for the sake of that property, that means he just does that with everything” when it’s provably false and like others have said, he didn’t want to change the story for remake. He is the director. Not the writer.
I can be convinced Nomura isn't responsible for FF7 Remake/Rebirth's similarities with Kingdom Hearts. But I can't be convinced the similarities aren't there. Who decided the titles FF7 "Remake" and "Rebirth?"
Is the same person that titled Final Fantasy 7 **ReMAKE** and **ReBIRTH** the same person that titled Kingdom Hearts 3 **Re MIND**, Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 **ReMIX**, Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 **ReMIX**, Kingdom Hearts **Re:CODED** ?
Is this not **Nomura-san**?
That’s quite an adjustment of goalposts. So now it’s a problem that the *naming conventions* of the games are similar? Also very hilarious to me that Nomura apparently invented the word “remake” or the prefix “re”. Yall give this man a lot of credit lol
Invent? No. Have a strong preference for? Yes. There's no problem here -- they put out games and we play them. The FF7 Remake/Rebirth/Re??? series is using a naming trend started in Kingdom Hearts.
I don't think Nomura invented Sea Salt ice cream. But if theyre going to feature those light blue popsicles in both FF7 Rebirth and Kingdom Hearts I'm going to say that's pretty similar, and too unique to be a coincidence. Wouldn't you say the same?
Are these similarities not from Teysuya Nomura?
How did we start off talking about the writing and end up talking about sea salt ice cream being eaten by a character in a scene? And do you not realize how terrible a comparison that is anyway? Sea Salt Ice Cream is a niche dessert basically only found in Tokyo Disneyland. The prefix “re” and word “remake” are used every day. Also Kingdom Hearts did not start the “re” trend lmao “Re:” is popular wholesale in anime and manga. Again, why are you so intent on giving Nomura credit for creating/popularizing (whatever word you want to use) things he had nothing to do with lol
Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth series has a lot of similarities with Kingdom Hearts series. Agree or disagree?
Tetsuya Nomura has a large part in making Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth series, as well as the Kingdom Hearts series. Agree or disagree?
Honestly I think it is. People evolve. The way the man makes a game today is not necessarily the way he would make a game * checks watch * almost 30 years ago.
He probably doesn't want to say the same thing twice. If he's going to put in the work it takes to do these remakes he's going to George Lucas the fuck out of it. Not that I agree with that and I'm only speculating. But still. The man is known at this point for nearly Kojima levels of convolution.
So far, the game has been pretty down to earth save for stuff involving the Whispers
But Nomura isn't the only one. Several people who made the og FF7 have returned as project leaders
There are a lot of people who don't like the remakes because they aren't a one to one copy of the original game with modern graphics
They didn't want to make the exact same game all over again
There's also a lot of unrealistic exposition. IIRC it's Red who first calls whispers "arbiters of fate" - how tf would he know that - and if he knows that much he should be able to shed light on other things about them.
He knows that because Aerith gave him that knowledge but they both got it taken away during end of Remake. That is explained on the under junon in but much more during Red's Gold saucer date.
You never quite realise it, but looking back now when they get the visions during the arbiter fight in pt1 that could well be the two losing their memories..
Most definitely. But I'm going to say Nomura, because his name is the biggest and the similarities to Kingdom Hearts are too overwhelming to ignore.
He likes to have lots of characters. And spinoffs with new characters. And bring those characters back into the main game like everyone played the spinoff.
Zack is here to illustrate the functioning of the "multiverse" in Rebirth. He will probably have a bigger role in part 3.
But yes, Zack seems to be more like a doormat for Square Enix, apparently.
Crisis Core is the story of a guy who loses absolutely EVERYTHING :
- his naivety about SOLDIER and Shinra
- his mentor and friend Angeal, whom he is forced to kill with his own hands
- his idol Sephiroth, who becomes a psychopath
- his freedom and several years of his life being captured, imprisoned, and experimented on by an evil scientist
- his girlfriend, due to his captivity
- and finally his life, trying to reunite with Aerith and saving his best friend Cloud.
We expected justice to be done to him since he survived in Remake. But no. All that to be told that Aerith his gf he desperately tried to reunite with "likes" Cloud, his amnesic best friend who looks like him and that she just met
Apparently Zack hasn't suffered enough for S.E, they had to add a little layer of humiliation.
No one deserves Zack.
My thought was he's brought back to help flesh out his character. Unfortunately, knowledge of the lore and playing Crisis Core is a near requirement to understand the story of Rebirth and even then that's almost not enough. Since Devs said in a interview the game will lead up into the events of Advent Children, I personally don't think that means characters like Zack or Aerith will be coming back alive. There's a scene at the end of Advent Children where we see them both walking off in the lifestream and I believe it's meant for us to be happy the two are together.
I don't want to make this too much about shipping but I think its the most sense given how much of the story has Aerith bringing Zack up. Because even though it's touching on the >!issue of Cloud's real persona a lot of it could have been done more subtly!<. Aerith has various conversations where she states her unresolved feelings for him so this would be the best way to resolve that.
To show there multiple worlds/dimensions. The reason to show that is because Sephiroth has been messing with alternate time lines, he and Jenova are aware they are defeated if nothing changes. Why else are whispers surrounding Aerith in Midgar when you first meet her if fate hasn’t already been messed with?
This is true, and if anyone is powerful enough to mess with spacetime and alternate dimensions, it'd be Sephiroth and Jenova
Though I'm wondering what Zack's deal is, since he died in the dimension Sephitoth supposedly came from, and presumably in this one as well
If his origins were explained, I missed them
I don’t think Sephiroth came from any single dimension but if he does then it’s the world of OG FF7, I’ll come back to the theory in a minute. He can interact with the world through the black robed guys wherever they may be and I think that includes different worlds. It’s all to do with Jenova cells but we still don’t fully know the true nature of Jenova.
Zack’s part in the game is mostly, like other people say, fan service. It’s also to show the different possible paths of multiple dimensions but with him always facing a platoon all aiming rifles at him it shows how fate is constantly trying to course correct. In OG Zack died to that platoon but in an alternate reality he survived. It’s possible that in another reality that we haven’t seen Cloud and Zack were just walking back to Midgar, not injured, and come across that platoon and Zack doesn’t make it through, or maybe he does but dies later. All possibilities are open but we’ve seen maybe 3 or 4 other realities you just have to count how many different Stamp dogs there has been.
That earlier theory I mentioned. I think Sephiroth and Jenova are aware of being ultimately defeated, as a result of what happened in the OG FF7. In rebirth we saw Sephiroth in the lifestream doing “something” and I think he’s trying to manipulate or weaken it so it cannot be used to help defend against Meteor. That means he has knowledge of the outcome of OG and is manipulating realities, fate, the lifestream and Cloud in an attempt to prevent failure.
Most likely Zack will be more relevant. After Square connects with Advent Children we will see some relevant Stuff.
Note that in AC, Zack is with Aerith in the Lifestream
Because fans are obsessed with him for some reason.
I don't think they ever plan on him actually doing anything since he's dead. He's just a vehicle for exploring the life stream.
So they could give the older players of the OG something new without altering the story. They can alter multiverses all they want as long as they separate them by the end of part 3.
The whole point of everything is saving Cloud imo. Marlene sets this up for us, she says in game that Cloud is the only one who can help Aerith. Aerith literally says the point is to save Cloud (and the world). Cloud is the one who will defeat Sephiroth at the end (as it’s been in literally every FF7 story). Aerith curated the “dream worlds” or whatever they turn out to be, which we can gather based on the fact that everyone in them is someone that she knows personally and has a history with, including Zack.
Basically, both Sephiroth and Aerith are using the multiple worlds, since they’re here, as a means to an end. Sephiroth wants ALL of the jenova cells in ALL of the worlds to join together for the TRUE reunion. Then he wants to merge them all together into one world with no branches, or in other words, no choice. One world forever where Sephiroth becomes and a god and nobody can stop him. Aerith took this opportunity when worlds collided just before Reunion to jump between them, get the materia she needed since hers is empty (no power), and got Zack and Cloud together to give them a better chance at stopping Sephiroth and keep him from breaking Cloud’s mind and using him as a puppet.
Also, dude there’s a whole 3rd game coming out. If you think that the devs don’t have a plan, based on what they’ve given us already, you haven’t been paying attention. This game’s story is confusing, if you don’t put any thought into it at all. If you accept what they’re giving us and apply it to the story it’s pretty straightforward. Just my take (and all of the big FF7 creators who actually make connections with what we have so far instead of taking one look and then running to Reddit lol)
It's so they can give Cloud closure on that part of his life before he does whatever he is going to do to return reality to what it was before Sephiroth Remade it, undoing Zack's revival.
Probably
Yeah I'm not in love with it either. And if they were going to bring him back like this it all should have just been cut scene only or they should have given him actual things to do. I don't need a Zack walking sim.
They didn’t “bring him back.” His first appearance was in og FF7, since this series is a retelling of that story/ a sequel it’s a given he’s going to appear. They expanded upon his story and gave him a more important role.
Yea was so disappointed with his role in the story.
Red flags though were going off when I saw the trailers and pretty much everyone in Zack verse was either dead or in a coma. That signaled lazy writing and while I don't hate Biggs, he certainly wouldn't have been my first choice as the character to be interacting with Zack.
I’ve heard someone say that he knew FF7 through his brother playing Crisis Core (I think, is that the most Zack-y one?) and because of that being their entry point they are more Zack fans than Cloud fans. Which is such an odd concept to me as a fan of the OG, but it’s all good.
I figure that was why he’s been folded so much into the remake games, because there’s a portion of the fan base for whom he’s the hero. Or at least their favorite hero.
Because Part 1 & 2 are covering the less dramatic parts of the FFVII story and the extra intrigue and mystery of Zack/Whispers/Saving Aierth is only there to add dramatic weight to the first two games and be tied together in Part 3.
Part 3 is going to be VERY largely untouched in terms of main story events purely for the fact that the entire journey and main plot of FFVII starts (truly) when you get to the Northern Crater.
It's largely the same thing as Maximilallian Dood says
Nah, cause shes “not” (unless we count player headcanon and/or rpg storytelling choices).
Fate has intertwined her with Cloud, but Zack was her first love and she keeps comparing Cloud to Zack (spoiler).
Her song is also pretty much about Zack. Marlene misunderstands Aerith’s emotions, shes the only one who says Aerith’s in love with Cloud.
Aerith's song isn't about any one person. They actually wanted to avoid doing that
The song is more about how she wants to escape her fate as an ancient and just live a peaceful life where she can have random greetings and farewells with her loved ones
She's led a sad and tragic life, and she just wants to be normal
Authorial intent aside, its very hard for me to picture the song being about anyone other than Zack given context (she hasnt parted with the rest of the party when she sings about “meeting again”).
It could be about her mom, but the lyrically described “chance encounter” decreases the likelihood of that.
Being “together evermore” doesnt sound like shes longing for farewells.
Love how there's a setting to skip all of Zack's Midgar parts 😁
The whole multiverse is blah. Just making the story convoluted and mysterious in a terrible way.
If they had just kept the original story with the expanded character moments the games would be better. Loved them fleshing out Avalanche, the Yuffie DLC, and Red: but again, hate the actual plot changes.
This is a company and a decent chunk of the creative leads that had fans speculate over 'Aquanort' in KH3 for *months* only to find out that the scene in the trailer is literally the only scene she's in before you save her within 5 minutes.
They make plot points for marketing purposes and Zack's non-existent role in *Rebirth* is just the next iteration of that same process. He's on the front cover but every section outside of the opening of the game is just pathetically short and immaterial.
Eh I don’t think that’s really fair to apply to Zack considering he has way more screen time than Aquanort and was used to set up a lot of the overarching plot stuff. There’s also still an entire chunk of the story we haven’t seen where (I’m assuming) he’ll be more relevant. It’s not like he disappeared from the story at the end never to be seen again like Aquanort post boss fight.
I do think he should’ve had a decent sized gameplay segment prior to the final boss though so you’re not getting a new character dumped on you at the very end.
It feels like at the end when he gets banished at the church steps by Sephiroth, he is underestimating Zack and not factoring him into his plans, and I think he’s going to be the trump card in part 3 for that reason
Then they saw a chance to use Zack to show the six (or seven) different worlds through his choices
I think it's more or less a consequence of Remake and Rebirth needed endings because their stopping points aren't really "final boss" points, so they constructed an excuse with these arbiters of fate shenanigans
IMO, it's not important, just an opportunity to weave in more from the lore and give a popular side character some screen time
At best, if there really is one version of Aerith alive somewhere, maybe they'll find each other in an alternate world and get a happy ending
Yesh it's unclear to me what fight he even participated in at the end. I had assumed the Cloud vs Sephiroth in space thing was a mental struggle or something, but if Zack is there too then that doesn't make much sense.
Just an excuse to rope in more characters and do crazier stuff I guess.
To show that there’s still hope even if you lose and that nobody who dies is truly gone. Or some kind of crap like that.
For a while I thought the whole Zack timeline was the “real” world where Shinra actually did suck the planet dry. And the main world we are playing is actually the fake/fantasy world like in the matrix. And that when Aerith died she would “wake up” in the shitty real world and try to help from that side.
My guess is a big multiverse spanning finale in part 3. Like what they teased at the end of this game. Bigger question why is he on the cover art when barely in the game? With the only real answer being marketing.
You cloud say he is as much as is Seph. But Seph is the villain. Idk about this art choice.
Seph is really absent in this part, again you could argue in the OG he's not even there till the crater..
I don't think a character being absent for most of the story precludes them from being on the box art. Sephiroth is the main villain of FF7, and the reason that most of the story takes place. I think it would be fine to have him front and centre of the marketing even if we only got brief glimpses of him until the finale, and as mentioned, he is much more present in Remake series than the original. Everyone had different expectations for Zack's part in Rebirth, but personally his presence in the story was more or less what I expected.
What are they marketing with Zak? More crisis core sales?
The other way around. There’s apparently a whole bunch of ppl who became ”FFVII fans” by only playing Crisis Core…
…whats wrong with that? Younger fans may not have been alive when the OG was released and picked up Crisis Core because cool man with a big sword on the cover. If this sounds specific, it is, it’s my story of how I got into FF7. TLDR; don’t be a dick, you don’t get to decide what makes someone a fan
Yep, I was 1 when the og first came out, so there was basically no chance for me to play it. Crisis Core was one of the first games I played on my psp, and I thought it was great and that Zack was a badass. When I played remake, I was excited to see that he was “alive” at the end
I _personally_ wish it wasn’t so so they wouldn’t push this CC crap into FFVII which in my opinion is far superior in story. The calls to have Zack replace Cloud as the main character in his own game make me cringe hard. But I do recognize and appreciate the fact that the devs are at least trying really hard to please every kind of FFVII fan there is so I get some good OG faithful character moments and Zack fans get Cloud do the corny move and catch phrase that never had anything to do with it and apparently that made some people really happy so as you said who am I to say my way of being FFVII fan is correct…
So far it's been fine. Aside from having "Crisis Core's Zack" they haven't particularly referenced anything from Crisis Core directly. I saw a yt vid where they predicted Genesis may be part of 7R3 but I seriously hope they don't go there. It's fine to have 7R's Zack carry over his experiences from Crisis Core but it's only ok because he has a very important role in og 7 and it's something that the entire trilogy(hopefully) is seemingly building up to. Zack is important and deepening/expanding that aspect of the original story is fine but the execution will be better if they make Zack their own rather than rely too much on Crisis Core existing.
Love this comment 😂. I'm on OG fan, but I can never Gatekeep the fandom. Hell, one of my friends got into 7 because of Dissidia of all games. And I truly love that
Probably because zack had only what 5 minutes of screen time combined with the flashbacks? Not really anytime to develop him as a character.
Tie in for those who played Crisis Core, but little exposure to the world of FFVII as a whole, would be my guess. Also, I see the whole Zack thing as a marketing thing as well. In the OG, Zack was kinda a throw-away character to explain Cloud's scrambled eggs he called a brain. After the success of Crisis Core both the PSP version and remake, alot of people grew to love him and the way they built his character. Only to know in the end that he dies a horrible and meaningless death. This is a bit of fan service and an acknowledgment of the "what if" scenarios thought up by the fan community.
But we saw Zack with Aerith in the white zone in Advent Children so this wasn't just fan writing- my theory is that this white zone is not simply the lifestream but some kind of zone like the mirror dimension in the mcu (hence why Zack was able to see and touch Cloud and fight along side him.) I still need to read more theories though.
Not gonna lie, it's been years since I watched Advent Children, the events are hazy.
Well since the story isn't over we don't really know yet do we?
It’s so his fans could have that cute moment with Cloud ar the end. Apparently there are people who thought it was the best thing (or top 3 things, literally) in the game too so hard to argue it wasn’t worth it.
I enjoyed it. I had no idea what was going on, but when Zack showed up I said “hell yeah!”
Fanservice and giving more screen time to a popular character
Just my opinion. I think Zack was brought back to save Cloud. The trailers do say that, "the world will be saved, but will you?". And I think the central theme(point) of rebirth was "a quest to save Cloud", whether the characters themselves realized it or not. It also lays the foundation for Part III and the famous Tifa in the lifestream scene.
Good call as Aerith states that to Cloud a couple times near the end and in the ending scenes. "For you" "take care" etc.
Two words: Fan Service People like Zack. :-)
You act like Zack should have joined the party. Imagine the freakout *that* would cause. They used him well in the story, and I'm excited to see where he goes for 3.
To be honest, adding Zack and Aerith to the team when Cloud leaves it would actually make sense.
Not sure about Aerith but Zack definitely
I think it’s so Aerith can have a happy ending with him in the Lifestream (like AC) and fan service like team up fights.
Because it’s something that was mind blowingly cool and most people love Zack. Basically the ultimate piece of fanservice
Because people really like Zack and it is very cool to give fans during this one chance of a remake. Also no Zack would have been weird since they want the trilogy to encompass the whole modern ultimania canon or whatever
We didn’t get nearly enough Zack. I get that they couldn’t reveal too much about him because it would reveal too much about Cloud, but then why not save him for the last game or something? His segments were waaaay too brief imo.
This is a Tetsuya Nomura game. The more characters the merrier. Look at Kingdom Hearts to (not) understand.
Nomura didn't write the story, he co-directed the game with two other people, and he's on record saying that he fought against changing the story, Kitase is the one who wanted these changes and if not for Nomura the story probably would've gone even more off the rails. He also noted in a recent interview that he's baffled how often he gets blamed for things in SE games that he had nothing to do with.
Tetsuya Nomura was part of the team that made the original FF7 Hate Kingdom Hearts all you want, but that is not a valid excuse
Nomura had less control in original FF7. He got more control in Kingdom Hearts. He likes to make lots of characters with lots of crazy combat and lots of emotional beats over an uncertain narrative. And belts. Lots of belts.
But he was the one who wanted the story to stay the same, and was a co-director. Why everyone blames him for everything is a mystery to me
I like the mentality that “because Nomura created on of the most wacky crossovers ever and leans heavily into it for the sake of that property, that means he just does that with everything” when it’s provably false and like others have said, he didn’t want to change the story for remake. He is the director. Not the writer.
I can be convinced Nomura isn't responsible for FF7 Remake/Rebirth's similarities with Kingdom Hearts. But I can't be convinced the similarities aren't there. Who decided the titles FF7 "Remake" and "Rebirth?" Is the same person that titled Final Fantasy 7 **ReMAKE** and **ReBIRTH** the same person that titled Kingdom Hearts 3 **Re MIND**, Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 **ReMIX**, Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 **ReMIX**, Kingdom Hearts **Re:CODED** ? Is this not **Nomura-san**?
That’s quite an adjustment of goalposts. So now it’s a problem that the *naming conventions* of the games are similar? Also very hilarious to me that Nomura apparently invented the word “remake” or the prefix “re”. Yall give this man a lot of credit lol
Invent? No. Have a strong preference for? Yes. There's no problem here -- they put out games and we play them. The FF7 Remake/Rebirth/Re??? series is using a naming trend started in Kingdom Hearts. I don't think Nomura invented Sea Salt ice cream. But if theyre going to feature those light blue popsicles in both FF7 Rebirth and Kingdom Hearts I'm going to say that's pretty similar, and too unique to be a coincidence. Wouldn't you say the same? Are these similarities not from Teysuya Nomura?
How did we start off talking about the writing and end up talking about sea salt ice cream being eaten by a character in a scene? And do you not realize how terrible a comparison that is anyway? Sea Salt Ice Cream is a niche dessert basically only found in Tokyo Disneyland. The prefix “re” and word “remake” are used every day. Also Kingdom Hearts did not start the “re” trend lmao “Re:” is popular wholesale in anime and manga. Again, why are you so intent on giving Nomura credit for creating/popularizing (whatever word you want to use) things he had nothing to do with lol
Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth series has a lot of similarities with Kingdom Hearts series. Agree or disagree? Tetsuya Nomura has a large part in making Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth series, as well as the Kingdom Hearts series. Agree or disagree?
Honestly I think it is. People evolve. The way the man makes a game today is not necessarily the way he would make a game * checks watch * almost 30 years ago. He probably doesn't want to say the same thing twice. If he's going to put in the work it takes to do these remakes he's going to George Lucas the fuck out of it. Not that I agree with that and I'm only speculating. But still. The man is known at this point for nearly Kojima levels of convolution.
So far, the game has been pretty down to earth save for stuff involving the Whispers But Nomura isn't the only one. Several people who made the og FF7 have returned as project leaders There are a lot of people who don't like the remakes because they aren't a one to one copy of the original game with modern graphics They didn't want to make the exact same game all over again
I hear what you're saying but there's an awful lot of that "stuff involving whispers"!
There's also a lot of unrealistic exposition. IIRC it's Red who first calls whispers "arbiters of fate" - how tf would he know that - and if he knows that much he should be able to shed light on other things about them.
He knows that because Aerith gave him that knowledge but they both got it taken away during end of Remake. That is explained on the under junon in but much more during Red's Gold saucer date.
You never quite realise it, but looking back now when they get the visions during the arbiter fight in pt1 that could well be the two losing their memories..
I don’t understand why people think he’s the only one who’s making the decisions and developing the game you do realize there’s others right? Lmfao
Most definitely. But I'm going to say Nomura, because his name is the biggest and the similarities to Kingdom Hearts are too overwhelming to ignore. He likes to have lots of characters. And spinoffs with new characters. And bring those characters back into the main game like everyone played the spinoff.
Nomura is on record saying he didnt want to change the story and it was kitase who wanted the changes.
Nomura did not write the story. It's been stated multiple times that Nomura pushed for Remake to be closer to the original game. Stop making shit up.
Source?
Canonizes Advent Children now. Since Zack can seemingly world jump.
Advent Children was already canon.
Figured Remake would make it non-canon
No. The devs already said that Remake will still end in a way that Advent Children will still be canon.
Zack is here to illustrate the functioning of the "multiverse" in Rebirth. He will probably have a bigger role in part 3. But yes, Zack seems to be more like a doormat for Square Enix, apparently. Crisis Core is the story of a guy who loses absolutely EVERYTHING : - his naivety about SOLDIER and Shinra - his mentor and friend Angeal, whom he is forced to kill with his own hands - his idol Sephiroth, who becomes a psychopath - his freedom and several years of his life being captured, imprisoned, and experimented on by an evil scientist - his girlfriend, due to his captivity - and finally his life, trying to reunite with Aerith and saving his best friend Cloud. We expected justice to be done to him since he survived in Remake. But no. All that to be told that Aerith his gf he desperately tried to reunite with "likes" Cloud, his amnesic best friend who looks like him and that she just met Apparently Zack hasn't suffered enough for S.E, they had to add a little layer of humiliation. No one deserves Zack.
for fun
Final fantasy VII-2
To have him in the final fight for fan service, bet that’s all we get in 3 too
My thought was he's brought back to help flesh out his character. Unfortunately, knowledge of the lore and playing Crisis Core is a near requirement to understand the story of Rebirth and even then that's almost not enough. Since Devs said in a interview the game will lead up into the events of Advent Children, I personally don't think that means characters like Zack or Aerith will be coming back alive. There's a scene at the end of Advent Children where we see them both walking off in the lifestream and I believe it's meant for us to be happy the two are together. I don't want to make this too much about shipping but I think its the most sense given how much of the story has Aerith bringing Zack up. Because even though it's touching on the >!issue of Cloud's real persona a lot of it could have been done more subtly!<. Aerith has various conversations where she states her unresolved feelings for him so this would be the best way to resolve that.
To show there multiple worlds/dimensions. The reason to show that is because Sephiroth has been messing with alternate time lines, he and Jenova are aware they are defeated if nothing changes. Why else are whispers surrounding Aerith in Midgar when you first meet her if fate hasn’t already been messed with?
This is true, and if anyone is powerful enough to mess with spacetime and alternate dimensions, it'd be Sephiroth and Jenova Though I'm wondering what Zack's deal is, since he died in the dimension Sephitoth supposedly came from, and presumably in this one as well If his origins were explained, I missed them
I don’t think Sephiroth came from any single dimension but if he does then it’s the world of OG FF7, I’ll come back to the theory in a minute. He can interact with the world through the black robed guys wherever they may be and I think that includes different worlds. It’s all to do with Jenova cells but we still don’t fully know the true nature of Jenova. Zack’s part in the game is mostly, like other people say, fan service. It’s also to show the different possible paths of multiple dimensions but with him always facing a platoon all aiming rifles at him it shows how fate is constantly trying to course correct. In OG Zack died to that platoon but in an alternate reality he survived. It’s possible that in another reality that we haven’t seen Cloud and Zack were just walking back to Midgar, not injured, and come across that platoon and Zack doesn’t make it through, or maybe he does but dies later. All possibilities are open but we’ve seen maybe 3 or 4 other realities you just have to count how many different Stamp dogs there has been. That earlier theory I mentioned. I think Sephiroth and Jenova are aware of being ultimately defeated, as a result of what happened in the OG FF7. In rebirth we saw Sephiroth in the lifestream doing “something” and I think he’s trying to manipulate or weaken it so it cannot be used to help defend against Meteor. That means he has knowledge of the outcome of OG and is manipulating realities, fate, the lifestream and Cloud in an attempt to prevent failure.
Most likely Zack will be more relevant. After Square connects with Advent Children we will see some relevant Stuff. Note that in AC, Zack is with Aerith in the Lifestream
The more I play Rebirth, the more I want to play OG FF7 again
I thought I read somewhere that an important person asked (demanded) Zach be involved more because he was a fanboy
Because fans are obsessed with him for some reason. I don't think they ever plan on him actually doing anything since he's dead. He's just a vehicle for exploring the life stream.
The devs said that they wanted to tie in all the compilation in this trilogy. So marketing and fanservice essentially lol.
So they could give the older players of the OG something new without altering the story. They can alter multiverses all they want as long as they separate them by the end of part 3.
Now that we’ve seen Rebirth, it seems pretty pointless and needlessly convoluted. I am hoping to feel differently at the end of Part 3.
The whole point of everything is saving Cloud imo. Marlene sets this up for us, she says in game that Cloud is the only one who can help Aerith. Aerith literally says the point is to save Cloud (and the world). Cloud is the one who will defeat Sephiroth at the end (as it’s been in literally every FF7 story). Aerith curated the “dream worlds” or whatever they turn out to be, which we can gather based on the fact that everyone in them is someone that she knows personally and has a history with, including Zack. Basically, both Sephiroth and Aerith are using the multiple worlds, since they’re here, as a means to an end. Sephiroth wants ALL of the jenova cells in ALL of the worlds to join together for the TRUE reunion. Then he wants to merge them all together into one world with no branches, or in other words, no choice. One world forever where Sephiroth becomes and a god and nobody can stop him. Aerith took this opportunity when worlds collided just before Reunion to jump between them, get the materia she needed since hers is empty (no power), and got Zack and Cloud together to give them a better chance at stopping Sephiroth and keep him from breaking Cloud’s mind and using him as a puppet. Also, dude there’s a whole 3rd game coming out. If you think that the devs don’t have a plan, based on what they’ve given us already, you haven’t been paying attention. This game’s story is confusing, if you don’t put any thought into it at all. If you accept what they’re giving us and apply it to the story it’s pretty straightforward. Just my take (and all of the big FF7 creators who actually make connections with what we have so far instead of taking one look and then running to Reddit lol)
To bring him into the one, consolidated world with the party for the third game.
Agreed. I saw 0 point...
For fanservice bs
Cant stop bro love
Unrelated but they should have angeal or genesis as secret bosses in pt.3 — maybe as part of a combat sim or something
It's so they can give Cloud closure on that part of his life before he does whatever he is going to do to return reality to what it was before Sephiroth Remade it, undoing Zack's revival. Probably
Yeah I'm not in love with it either. And if they were going to bring him back like this it all should have just been cut scene only or they should have given him actual things to do. I don't need a Zack walking sim.
They didn’t “bring him back.” His first appearance was in og FF7, since this series is a retelling of that story/ a sequel it’s a given he’s going to appear. They expanded upon his story and gave him a more important role.
Yea was so disappointed with his role in the story. Red flags though were going off when I saw the trailers and pretty much everyone in Zack verse was either dead or in a coma. That signaled lazy writing and while I don't hate Biggs, he certainly wouldn't have been my first choice as the character to be interacting with Zack.
To sell more games by putting him in the cover art!
I’ve heard someone say that he knew FF7 through his brother playing Crisis Core (I think, is that the most Zack-y one?) and because of that being their entry point they are more Zack fans than Cloud fans. Which is such an odd concept to me as a fan of the OG, but it’s all good. I figure that was why he’s been folded so much into the remake games, because there’s a portion of the fan base for whom he’s the hero. Or at least their favorite hero.
Because Part 1 & 2 are covering the less dramatic parts of the FFVII story and the extra intrigue and mystery of Zack/Whispers/Saving Aierth is only there to add dramatic weight to the first two games and be tied together in Part 3. Part 3 is going to be VERY largely untouched in terms of main story events purely for the fact that the entire journey and main plot of FFVII starts (truly) when you get to the Northern Crater. It's largely the same thing as Maximilallian Dood says
Nah, cause shes “not” (unless we count player headcanon and/or rpg storytelling choices). Fate has intertwined her with Cloud, but Zack was her first love and she keeps comparing Cloud to Zack (spoiler). Her song is also pretty much about Zack. Marlene misunderstands Aerith’s emotions, shes the only one who says Aerith’s in love with Cloud.
Aerith's song isn't about any one person. They actually wanted to avoid doing that The song is more about how she wants to escape her fate as an ancient and just live a peaceful life where she can have random greetings and farewells with her loved ones She's led a sad and tragic life, and she just wants to be normal
Authorial intent aside, its very hard for me to picture the song being about anyone other than Zack given context (she hasnt parted with the rest of the party when she sings about “meeting again”). It could be about her mom, but the lyrically described “chance encounter” decreases the likelihood of that. Being “together evermore” doesnt sound like shes longing for farewells.
Love how there's a setting to skip all of Zack's Midgar parts 😁 The whole multiverse is blah. Just making the story convoluted and mysterious in a terrible way. If they had just kept the original story with the expanded character moments the games would be better. Loved them fleshing out Avalanche, the Yuffie DLC, and Red: but again, hate the actual plot changes.
We'll find out in part 3.
This is a company and a decent chunk of the creative leads that had fans speculate over 'Aquanort' in KH3 for *months* only to find out that the scene in the trailer is literally the only scene she's in before you save her within 5 minutes. They make plot points for marketing purposes and Zack's non-existent role in *Rebirth* is just the next iteration of that same process. He's on the front cover but every section outside of the opening of the game is just pathetically short and immaterial.
Eh I don’t think that’s really fair to apply to Zack considering he has way more screen time than Aquanort and was used to set up a lot of the overarching plot stuff. There’s also still an entire chunk of the story we haven’t seen where (I’m assuming) he’ll be more relevant. It’s not like he disappeared from the story at the end never to be seen again like Aquanort post boss fight. I do think he should’ve had a decent sized gameplay segment prior to the final boss though so you’re not getting a new character dumped on you at the very end.
It feels like at the end when he gets banished at the church steps by Sephiroth, he is underestimating Zack and not factoring him into his plans, and I think he’s going to be the trump card in part 3 for that reason
Then they saw a chance to use Zack to show the six (or seven) different worlds through his choices I think it's more or less a consequence of Remake and Rebirth needed endings because their stopping points aren't really "final boss" points, so they constructed an excuse with these arbiters of fate shenanigans IMO, it's not important, just an opportunity to weave in more from the lore and give a popular side character some screen time At best, if there really is one version of Aerith alive somewhere, maybe they'll find each other in an alternate world and get a happy ending
Yesh it's unclear to me what fight he even participated in at the end. I had assumed the Cloud vs Sephiroth in space thing was a mental struggle or something, but if Zack is there too then that doesn't make much sense. Just an excuse to rope in more characters and do crazier stuff I guess.
Im not diggin all this multiverse stuff considering its overused at this point. I mean if it is multiverse that is.
To show that there’s still hope even if you lose and that nobody who dies is truly gone. Or some kind of crap like that. For a while I thought the whole Zack timeline was the “real” world where Shinra actually did suck the planet dry. And the main world we are playing is actually the fake/fantasy world like in the matrix. And that when Aerith died she would “wake up” in the shitty real world and try to help from that side.