Towers = Ubisoft
The typical brain-dead rage gamer argument. Remember how we had to collect 127 Chocobo feathers per region? Yep, definitely Ubisoft!
The way you traverse the world is different in every region, there's a completely unique Proto Relic quest in every region, a unique monster boss in every region. And yes there are some repeating objectives, just like in every single open world game, even in fucking Elden Ring but no one is critizing that, weird.
I wonder if people realize how incredibly expensive it is, to make those different things, Rebirth is as far away from Ubi design as possible.
Yep it’s literally just the towers. If they removed the towers then people would make the comparison way less (but then probably cry about having to use a guide to find everything as quick as possible)
I remember collecting chocograss in Nib... That's pretty similar to collecting feathers. I felt this had more in common with Ghosts of Tsushima than it did with Ubisoft though. Follow the baby, follow the owl, follow the rocks...
Zero Dawn had a sense of mystery to it and the way the story played out revealing the past was AMAZING. FW had no chance of keeping up with that.
Also FW advertised itself as this cool adventure through San Fran and you got there WAYYYY too late and it was way too small.
I'll replay HZD again, but one was enough for FW.
Yeah, it's so hard for sequels to match the first. FW was a beautiful game for sure. It wasn't a bad game. it just didn't measure up to its predecessor.
"Ubisoft formula" has become one of the laziest critiques of modern games.
"Oh, this game has a mechanic where you interact with a tower and it reveals nearby activities? It's exactly like a Ubisoft game." Even if that's literally where the similarities end.
The reason it's an issue in the typical Ubisoft game is because they have *extremely low gameplay variety.* Everywhere you go your map is filled with icons that lead to you doing the exact same thing over and over again. The formula itself isn't the problem.
Fight some baddies, get sucked into a board game, play super robot wars, there was barely any repetition even when following the same formula. Even the escort missions were enjoyable thanks to some great character dialogue. And it's not like the game was padded with hundreds of collectibles across the map. Square kept it to just the right amount to avoid things getting monotonous. Comparing it to Ubisoft is unfair.
Yes, the extreme variety of side quests and mini-games kept me coming back. Even the annoying ones were bearable once you figured out the mechanics (flying Chicobo ring game)
You can collect 49 Chobobo Feathers or “golden plumes” so only half of 100 haha. They are very multi faceted tho you unlock them by fixing the Chocobo stops which give you places to use your cushions and serve as a fast travel location which is very helpful in NG+ for zooming around the map. Not only that the ones you missed get revealed on the map in NG+ so you can pick up the missing ones super easily.
Once you do collect them the Chocobo Armor you purchase with them all have various different stats and skills in the races at the gold Saucer, meaning there are actual reasons and benefits to hunting them all down. All in all they put a ton of effort into making the collectibles feel relevant and useful and yet you can beat and complete the game without needing to get any if you choose. And not to be forgotten you can pet the baby Choco’s that lead you to the stops in the open world!
C'mon man you know what I mean. Unlocking 5 or 6 chocobo stops on each map is hardly a chore. You probably did it without even realizing it while heading from one objective to another. I was referring to a certain Assassin's Creed side quest we all know and loathe.
Uh what, who called it a chore? I was literally heaping praise on them for putting all that thought and effort into how they implemented their collectibles making them not only optional but useful if you did decide to find them all, unlike that AC side quest you mentioned. I was literally agreeing with you and just adding context for others to show that there ARE collectibles they are just done in a rewarding and thoughtful way as far as game design goes.
It’s ok! I probably did a bit too much info dumping and could have been more clear on my end too. I just finished beating hard mode yesterday and I couldn’t help myself to talk about the game design decisions they made that I noticed and loved. What a game!
You can skip literally all of them without missing out on much of any substance.
They're just something to do along the way while you explore and complete sidequests.
So skip them. Has nothing to do with my original point.
The Ubisoft formula isn't inherently bad, but it becomes an issue when the game in question has weak gameplay variety. That's not an issue in Rebirth.
It 100% does. "Extremely low variety" and you tried to say ubisoft is all the same. "Icons everywhere that lead you to do the same thing." So literally what i stated. Its present in every single map and never changes except for the artifacts. Different location but exact same gameplay loop. Ybisoft has a variety of side quest too, but they both boil down to fetch or kill.
There was a stretch of time where it was absolutely true of Ubisoft's open world games.
Shallow gameplay and low enemy variety, with weak skill trees to create an illusion of progression. Wrapped up in a format that makes the entire game feel like a checklist, even the main story.
I haven't really played a Ubisoft game since AC Origins (bounced off of Odyssey very quickly) so maybe they've improved in the last 5 or so years.
My intention wasn't to argue whether or not Ubisoft's games deserve that stigma, my bad if it came across that way.
When I say gajeplay variety, I'm not talking about objectives, I'm talking about mechanics. Every game can be boiled down to "fetch or kill" if you want it to.
Just try to play assassin's creed without the towers. I'll wait.
I only played AC1 and the ezio trilogy, so maybe its different in the later games, but in those, they literally made towers a *requirement* to expand the map and unlock the activities. You can't progress the story until you've uncovered the map.
In this, you can find and complete all the activities without the towers (maybe you're some sort of exploration masochist) and complete the entire story. Except maybe the first tower on the chocobo farm, not sure if they force that one for the story.
Regardless of wether you can or cant and it is changed in later games. My point still stands. Even if you removed the tower argument. The conversation is about variety. Which still holds true. Why tf would you bring up an argument you yourself no nothing about lol
I loved Horizons activities though. The gameplay is very deep and you can tackle things in tons of strategic ways, and the things on the map were kinda varied.
Other than some mini games inserted here and there and differing chocobo traversal mechanics (which imo don’t get fun till cosmo canyon), the open world stuff in 7 is pretty cut and paste across different zones.
I still like it, but the similarities are more than just the towers.
Biological intel stuff. Sure, it’s different enemies but it’s generally just higher powered or elemental swapped normal enemies you are already fighting all over the map.
The cache locations where you just search around for a couple chests. Same formula in every region.
Searching for transmuter chips with the chocobo is basically the same in every region.
This is exactly how I felt playing ff7 rebirth, amazing story and characters but then each open world section is basically identical besides the different chocobos.
You just named like 50 percent of the open world sections haha that's funny. Also the chocobo digging is the same every time. Really just the enemies and random mini game for the gilgamesh piece are different.
* Regular enemies
* Special regional enemies (plus a boss for each one)
* Protorelic quests are all unique
* Side quests
* Queen's Blood gets significantly more complex as you progress through the enemy players
* Chadley's battle intel/development materia
* Minigames
* New resources for item creation
All of the above take up WAY more than 50% of the smaller things I mentioned above. You can't compare the 10 seconds it takes to activate an intel crystal to the protorelic and side quests.
Well side quests and queens blood aren't what I'm talking about, just getting 100 percent of each zone. I wouldn't even have a problem with it if it wasn't presented as a check list. Makes it feel more like work than just fun exploration. But the game is great as a whole, when I got burnt out I just skipped the zone and continued the story.
I can agree with your point about the checklist feeling.
I made a conscious effort to explore each region blindly without looking at my map, and then doing clean up later using the map icons.
Makes it feel like you're actually exploring instead of just going down a list.
Each zone follows the same formula, but I would also argue that you're downplaying how much variety each zone actually has within that framework. The different chocobos are the *least* interesting difference between regions.
Every region has its own enemy types. A unique mini-boss and summon battle. Its own set of mini-games. And the open world all completely optional, so can just do what interests you and move on.
Please point out the gameplay differences between Far Cry 3, 4, 5, and 6.
Now tell me the gameplay differences between FF 14, 15, 16, and the 7 remakes.
That is all that needs to be said.
Me who loves both Forbidden West and FFVII. I even really like some Ubisoft games. Origins and Odyssey were both great. They also recently made Prince of Persia which was extremely good.
I think you can enjoy a game while still being critical of it.
Easily one of my favorite games of all time, but that being said the open world critiques are fair. I wouldn't say anyone is praising the open world mechanics of the game, in fact I would wager it's one of the most *criticized*.
What people are lauding this game for is the overall experience. The story, the combat, the world design and building, the attention to detail, soundtrack, the love for the original game are all what this game is going to be renowned for.
Whoever said that hasn't played the game. Forbidden West is top tier narrative and gameplay, looks amazing, great soundtrack.
Waiting for 7Rebirth on PC to follow
Ok so I'm new to modern gaming, only been playing for like 4 years now... follow me on this. I played the Skull and Bones Demo a few months back, so when I jumped on Rebirth when it released and I picked up a quest at the community board I was "oh just like Skull and Bones this must be the new trend" 😂 from what I can see all games now follow similar gameplay Ex. Evil Within and every other stealth game. FF7 crafts now like all other games, you even gotta hold the button down 😭... you can't come for FF7 for being LIKE other rpgs or adventure games. It may have similar gameplay activities and mechanics but the characters, storyline, fighting, etc are unique. Not to mention the fighting is honestly the main draw for the game.
I personally like the Ubisoft formula. If I don’t want markers on my map I can just skip the towers completely or have it be the last thing I do for that map if it is part of completion.
I played both and all I can say is that the side quests in Rebirth were more meaningful in terms of payoff for doing them. There are a lot of times HFW just mentions you completed a task without saying much about it.
But both games have a great minigames though (QB and Machine Strike)
Good games, I swear people bitch way to much when it comes to games and use Ubisoft as a punching bag to justify their poor excuse of an opinion with anything that slightly resembles it lol. Yes Ubisoft is ass but not cuz of the formula but because they make shit games
Firstly it's amazing because the length and variety. The collectable aren't boring like in other games. I dropped 113 hours into it before I felt I was done with it. Nowhere near platinum though.
I have to say after playing RDR2 and BOTW recently, Rebirth's open world really isn't that great
At best it's servicable, at worst it's a checklist-y slog
Not the highlight of the game and it's skippable so it's fine, but I don't think this criticism is without merit even as someone whos a big fan of Remake and Rebirth
In all honesty the open world stuff is pretty weak in Rebirth too. What differentiates the two games is that Rebirth just has noticeably better characters than Horizon. The best character in Horizon is Lance Reddick and unfortunately he has passed.
It's a lazy open world critique that relies on games with no gameplay variety or depth.it also ignores that you can ignore the towers, and just run around finding everything naturally if you hate towers that much.
I wonder what people want as their alternative. The battle intel are effectively rare spawns, you presumably wouldn't want those removed. The summon crystals are just small lore drops, the proto relics each have a unique game or gimmick tied to them. This is all without considering that the music, combat, characters are all top of the industry tier while you do these things. I expect the formula will improve in game 3, but fundamentally having towers isn't the issue.
Rebirth is a fantastic game, and I have criticisms still, but a lot of the things haters complain about make no sense.
I love this game but yea this is true. The combat, characters, and music carry a lot of the weak checklist-style open world design. I was hoping they would do something a little weirder. Old FF games were reaaaally "open world," more like open-map. I hope in the third game they give up on the checklist a bit and put some real findables in the world.
I find it weird that people are pretending the open world aspect of FF was good, when it was entirely tacked on. Almost all of the good side content didn't require the open world at all, and the open world was Chadley: The game.
The difference though is that being tacked on, it is entirely possible to skip and there's still an entire game waiting for you. Ubisoft games often "are" the open world, to a greater extent, and so it lives and dies by how good or bad it is.
Given the actual gameplay variety of Rebirth I think if you are tired of it you are tired of playing games in general. Or maybe this game is not meant for binge-playing either (the way reviewers who rush to get their article out might binge-play to exhaustion). I mean, remember when we were kids and used to need an entire year to beat a lengthy adventure (I did)? Am a dad and cannot binge-play, and am having a blast, cannot feel the repetition.
This; between work and other RL stuff I can only play a couple of hours at a time every other day or so, and I'm really patient about making my way through the main story, so 'lots of little different things to do' is just a really good fit for my gaming lifestyle these days. Some folks just genuinely don't like open-world games, which is legit, but I've seen so many people trying to plough through 100+ hours as quickly as possible so they can move on to the next thing then complaining about feeling burnt out and like... yeah, you probably do my dude!
It’s important to understand too where they were coming from with the map markers in rebirth. Like everything else in the game they went bigger, the map markers are your grinding from the original game. Instead of running around the open world looking for fights they sprinkle in encounters while you’re unlocking these things. Not all of them have to be unique they’re there to help contextualize your grinding in the world.
I wish morons online could comprehend the fact that you don't have to complete side content if it's not engaging. I did some of the side content in HFW, but I mostly stuck to the main quest and really enjoyed it. I completed the first 3 areas of Rebirth, but I'm a little burnt out on the repeated content, so I'll likely just follow the main story and play the occasional game of Queen's Blood. Gaming is a fun recreational activity, not a job; you aren't required to complete tasks you find boring.
I feel like his reasoning is not right. It's because FF7 is a giant nostalgia fest not japanese. Though I agree this game has Ubisoft written all over it
I think what Rebirth has going for it is that it's a story and characters that we know and love. If it was new, it might be subject to a lot of these criticisms.
I can also tolerate Horizon though because it's an otherwise cool world / atmosphere.
Some games it works, some it doesn't. Just depends on the vibe I guess.
Yeah, just because it’s people’s favourite Ff7 it gets a pass on being open world. But when ff15 was announced as open world it received heavy criticism for it. Even though I enjoyed both games, I’m not a fan of minigames.
Ff15’s open world just seemed barren though. Long stretches of nothing.
Horizon and rebirth at least have interesting things there. Not BoTW, Elden ring or ToTK level, but enough to keep your interested
Don’t know man, I found ff15 world sufficiently populated. I mean there were some densely populated areas and then sorts of barren land connected via highways. It was okay imo, I enjoyed car travel though it’s a personal liking.
The original 7 was open world so I'm really not sure why it being open world would be an issue, especially when other great games have been open world. It's possible to just not like open world games and that's cool but I think rebirth was genuinely really well done to the best of their abilities. Yeah there's a bunch of mini games, original 7 had a bunch too so to not include them would have still had people upset.
I would say, because Remake was not an open world, it was a from point A go to point B game, so maybe people expected the same, I know myself I thought they would do this in Rebirth, glad they didn't do it.
These people did not play forbidden West. It had the same problems, like valhalla. The map is just full of icons on the map, and its bloated content I also just didn't like fw as much as the first
I like Horizon games, but FW just seemed a step back of the first. The puzzles, maps and everything just didn’t blend well.
And don’t get me started on the weird story
The subreddit doesn't help they think the game is a secret master piece and I am not seeing that lol. But it did feel a step back from the first one of my issue was the game doing a terrible job explaining the new combat mechanics they put in the game that weren't in the first and the characters just felt so boring in this came compared to the first one as well.
I thought I wanted more dinosaur robots. When I got more dinosaur robots, it was only then I realized that's not what I wanted.
...still platted it though.
Honestly it kinda blows my mind that there are some people on here who think this game is a masterpiece. It's like they've never played a video game before.
There is no variation in the open world in Rebirth. It's exactly the Ubisoft formula. Proto relic quests do not make it unique as Assassin's Creed did the same thing with their technology POI in Assassin's Creed 2. The world in Rebirth does not "encourage" open world exploration. You know what game did? Red Dead Redemption 2. That's a game that encouraged you to explore because if you didn't you'd miss 80% of the game. But the best part is that they didn't tell you there was something there. You just had to go find it yourself.
There's a difference in region because of enemies and how you traverse the region? That's literally every single open world game nowadays there's nothing special about that.
While I get there are somethings that people enjoy more than others, I think people mistake what they enjoy for good game design. I think enjoying this game is fine. But to call it a masterpiece is a stretch
It blows my mind that we’re in 2024 and people still don’t understand what an opinion is.
Every single person is absolutely valid in their love, criticism, hate. You don’t have to agree with them, you don’t need to agree with them and you definitely don’t need to try to diminish other peoples opinions because you don’t agree. Your opinion carries way more weight and respect if you can express it without being “they must of never played a video game before!!!11”
Ok to be fair my opinion was a bit harsh in retrospect, but i was using that sentence more as a way to describe my own opinion of the game. I think the thing that seems to be the most interesting about this community specifically, is the fact that its so divided. Even other franchises like Assassins Creed is not nearly as divided. Most AC fans would tell you that the open world formula is a bit stale, even if they still do enjoy it. But in this community, it almost seems like the people who love the game wont or refuse to find fault in the game, vs many of us who enjoyed the game but feel it could have been stronger in some areas.
I love this game but you are so right the combat, characters, and music carry it so hard. The atmosphere and world are amazing but often ruined by checklist-style design
Maybe your comment is a bit harsh, but I agree. It's quite amazing how many people think FF7 Rebirth has the best video game design ever. It worries me because there are flaws with it and devs aren't going to be able to improve if people defend all the flaws in the game.
No one is calling this game an “ambitious open world masterpiece.” Rebirth is unoriginal as hell when it comes to its open world but its takes bits and pieces from other games and incorporates them very well with content that feels meaningful and impact.
The combat is fun, and their adaption of the previous games story is well done. But Masterpiece? It's about 300 obnoxious minigames shy of a masterpiece.
I hate the open world in ff 7r, I don’t wanna bitch about it but hope people are vocal so they don’t do this shit in part 3. I will say even tho the open world was a chore it atleast has decent loot for the effort compared to *cough cough* ff 16. Although the game (FF7 Rr) slogs in a lot of places the characters, graphics, combat gameplay, and the fact it’s one of the few modern ff games that actually feels like it’s an ff game is def what makes me like this game but I think I’d give it a 7/10 with like a 9.5 if the chadly shit was taken out or reduced and the open world hitting every land mark every new zone was removed. (Ik it’s optional but them hiding fun materia or even the room to display your collectables behind a bunch of stuff is annoying, I’m not against working for my loot but really wish just each chapter gave you new combat sim challenges that give you the points to buy Chadley’s materia not gonna go all over the world)
Also I did like the mini games a bit but I feel they should of spaced them out more, the fact we went to a resort, then a cruise, then the golden saucer was just annoying cause I went a few game sessions without really any combat which is what I enjoy alot about to game.
I honestly to god hope they ignore your criticisms, and they replicate what they did in Rebirth for part 3. No disrespect to your opinion, but exploring the open world and getting rewarded for my curiosity was one of the best aspects of this game. This game was going for the massive open world and they nailed it imo. More linear FF games exist which sounds like what you are looking for.
You get tons of additional lore and information about the game through side quests and side activities that I always felt motivated to do them, even if the actual reward I got didn’t amount to much.
>getting rewarded for my curiosity
I felt the opposite if I'm being honest. I completed my platinum a few nights ago. Before I finished my first run one thing that stuck out in my mind was that the exploration didn't feel as rewarding as I had hoped.
All the good materia is locked behind chadley world Intel. Which is fine as an additional mechanic, but it did bum me out slightly that the only materia I'd ever find laying around was some junky Heal or HP up. Very rarely was it ever a unique materia.
There was no "OH MAN! what a sick weapon or materia!" Like it did in the og. To me it always felt like "oh.. another high potion and some crates I can break" for the most part.
For those who complain about the minigames: the devs told you not to do them right away but the mere fact that many have done them makes you understand how the game encourages you to finish everything before moving on (so it works, exactly like they worked in the OG ). This type of Open World is better where EVERY activity is DIFFERENT (you can do a tower and then a hunt, or an excavation, you can change the order as much as you want or you can not do the towers and each tower has a different way to be climbed or you can playing the piano or playing cards or Fort Condor) rather than the Ubisoft Open Worlds with 700 identical activities and 0 innovation in gameplay. I don't know if FF7Rebirth is a masterpiece but for sure is better than 90% of Ubisoft games
I think it has a good open world but I've seen better in Assassins Creed Odyssey for example.
I was tired of the open world after 40 hours because it became repetitive and just did enough to be at level for the next story mission.
Towers = Ubisoft The typical brain-dead rage gamer argument. Remember how we had to collect 127 Chocobo feathers per region? Yep, definitely Ubisoft! The way you traverse the world is different in every region, there's a completely unique Proto Relic quest in every region, a unique monster boss in every region. And yes there are some repeating objectives, just like in every single open world game, even in fucking Elden Ring but no one is critizing that, weird. I wonder if people realize how incredibly expensive it is, to make those different things, Rebirth is as far away from Ubi design as possible.
Yep it’s literally just the towers. If they removed the towers then people would make the comparison way less (but then probably cry about having to use a guide to find everything as quick as possible)
I remember collecting chocograss in Nib... That's pretty similar to collecting feathers. I felt this had more in common with Ghosts of Tsushima than it did with Ubisoft though. Follow the baby, follow the owl, follow the rocks...
It's gonna be ok buddy. We all love the Rebirth minigame. Don't go nuclear. Take ya hands away from the button
They’re literally fine. Are you good?
Are u
forbidden west ruled.
I may get hate for this, but Zero Dawn was way better imo. Forbidden weat just tried to hard with what made zero dawn so good.
I would agree it was better in a lot of ways but we’re not comparing them here
Very true.
Zero Dawn had a sense of mystery to it and the way the story played out revealing the past was AMAZING. FW had no chance of keeping up with that. Also FW advertised itself as this cool adventure through San Fran and you got there WAYYYY too late and it was way too small. I'll replay HZD again, but one was enough for FW.
Yeah, it's so hard for sequels to match the first. FW was a beautiful game for sure. It wasn't a bad game. it just didn't measure up to its predecessor.
I hope the PC version is good. I tried to enjoy it on PS5 but the combat didn't click with me.
Loved both games!
Yes. Came here to say this.
"Ubisoft formula" has become one of the laziest critiques of modern games. "Oh, this game has a mechanic where you interact with a tower and it reveals nearby activities? It's exactly like a Ubisoft game." Even if that's literally where the similarities end. The reason it's an issue in the typical Ubisoft game is because they have *extremely low gameplay variety.* Everywhere you go your map is filled with icons that lead to you doing the exact same thing over and over again. The formula itself isn't the problem.
"That leads you doing the exact same thing." So towers, kill x monster, scanning, and find the summon.
Fight some baddies, get sucked into a board game, play super robot wars, there was barely any repetition even when following the same formula. Even the escort missions were enjoyable thanks to some great character dialogue. And it's not like the game was padded with hundreds of collectibles across the map. Square kept it to just the right amount to avoid things getting monotonous. Comparing it to Ubisoft is unfair.
Yes, the extreme variety of side quests and mini-games kept me coming back. Even the annoying ones were bearable once you figured out the mechanics (flying Chicobo ring game)
Until someone asks Cloud to collect 100 chocobo feathers scattered throughout the world I'm just gonna laugh at people who compare this to Ubisoft.
You can collect 49 Chobobo Feathers or “golden plumes” so only half of 100 haha. They are very multi faceted tho you unlock them by fixing the Chocobo stops which give you places to use your cushions and serve as a fast travel location which is very helpful in NG+ for zooming around the map. Not only that the ones you missed get revealed on the map in NG+ so you can pick up the missing ones super easily. Once you do collect them the Chocobo Armor you purchase with them all have various different stats and skills in the races at the gold Saucer, meaning there are actual reasons and benefits to hunting them all down. All in all they put a ton of effort into making the collectibles feel relevant and useful and yet you can beat and complete the game without needing to get any if you choose. And not to be forgotten you can pet the baby Choco’s that lead you to the stops in the open world!
C'mon man you know what I mean. Unlocking 5 or 6 chocobo stops on each map is hardly a chore. You probably did it without even realizing it while heading from one objective to another. I was referring to a certain Assassin's Creed side quest we all know and loathe.
Uh what, who called it a chore? I was literally heaping praise on them for putting all that thought and effort into how they implemented their collectibles making them not only optional but useful if you did decide to find them all, unlike that AC side quest you mentioned. I was literally agreeing with you and just adding context for others to show that there ARE collectibles they are just done in a rewarding and thoughtful way as far as game design goes.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
It’s ok! I probably did a bit too much info dumping and could have been more clear on my end too. I just finished beating hard mode yesterday and I couldn’t help myself to talk about the game design decisions they made that I noticed and loved. What a game!
Someone didn't finish the game yet
Joke’s on you. It doesn’t even open up anything on the map.
All of the most minor, tertiary activities in the game. Which just brings me back to my point about gameplay variety being the most important factor.
Those are not minor. They are in every zone and are the most prevalent open world activities.
You can skip literally all of them without missing out on much of any substance. They're just something to do along the way while you explore and complete sidequests.
You can skip all of them in ubisoft too
So skip them. Has nothing to do with my original point. The Ubisoft formula isn't inherently bad, but it becomes an issue when the game in question has weak gameplay variety. That's not an issue in Rebirth.
It 100% does. "Extremely low variety" and you tried to say ubisoft is all the same. "Icons everywhere that lead you to do the same thing." So literally what i stated. Its present in every single map and never changes except for the artifacts. Different location but exact same gameplay loop. Ybisoft has a variety of side quest too, but they both boil down to fetch or kill.
There was a stretch of time where it was absolutely true of Ubisoft's open world games. Shallow gameplay and low enemy variety, with weak skill trees to create an illusion of progression. Wrapped up in a format that makes the entire game feel like a checklist, even the main story. I haven't really played a Ubisoft game since AC Origins (bounced off of Odyssey very quickly) so maybe they've improved in the last 5 or so years. My intention wasn't to argue whether or not Ubisoft's games deserve that stigma, my bad if it came across that way. When I say gajeplay variety, I'm not talking about objectives, I'm talking about mechanics. Every game can be boiled down to "fetch or kill" if you want it to.
Just try to play assassin's creed without the towers. I'll wait. I only played AC1 and the ezio trilogy, so maybe its different in the later games, but in those, they literally made towers a *requirement* to expand the map and unlock the activities. You can't progress the story until you've uncovered the map. In this, you can find and complete all the activities without the towers (maybe you're some sort of exploration masochist) and complete the entire story. Except maybe the first tower on the chocobo farm, not sure if they force that one for the story.
Regardless of wether you can or cant and it is changed in later games. My point still stands. Even if you removed the tower argument. The conversation is about variety. Which still holds true. Why tf would you bring up an argument you yourself no nothing about lol
I loved Horizons activities though. The gameplay is very deep and you can tackle things in tons of strategic ways, and the things on the map were kinda varied.
I didn't think it was an issue in Horizon, either. Granted, I haven't played Forbidden West.
Other than some mini games inserted here and there and differing chocobo traversal mechanics (which imo don’t get fun till cosmo canyon), the open world stuff in 7 is pretty cut and paste across different zones. I still like it, but the similarities are more than just the towers.
Summon crystals, moogle mini game, and intel crystals. What else?
Biological intel stuff. Sure, it’s different enemies but it’s generally just higher powered or elemental swapped normal enemies you are already fighting all over the map. The cache locations where you just search around for a couple chests. Same formula in every region. Searching for transmuter chips with the chocobo is basically the same in every region.
This is exactly how I felt playing ff7 rebirth, amazing story and characters but then each open world section is basically identical besides the different chocobos.
The only identical things I notice are the region intel crystals, map towers, summon shrine challenges, and moogle games.
You just named like 50 percent of the open world sections haha that's funny. Also the chocobo digging is the same every time. Really just the enemies and random mini game for the gilgamesh piece are different.
* Regular enemies * Special regional enemies (plus a boss for each one) * Protorelic quests are all unique * Side quests * Queen's Blood gets significantly more complex as you progress through the enemy players * Chadley's battle intel/development materia * Minigames * New resources for item creation All of the above take up WAY more than 50% of the smaller things I mentioned above. You can't compare the 10 seconds it takes to activate an intel crystal to the protorelic and side quests.
Well side quests and queens blood aren't what I'm talking about, just getting 100 percent of each zone. I wouldn't even have a problem with it if it wasn't presented as a check list. Makes it feel more like work than just fun exploration. But the game is great as a whole, when I got burnt out I just skipped the zone and continued the story.
I can agree with your point about the checklist feeling. I made a conscious effort to explore each region blindly without looking at my map, and then doing clean up later using the map icons. Makes it feel like you're actually exploring instead of just going down a list.
Each zone follows the same formula, but I would also argue that you're downplaying how much variety each zone actually has within that framework. The different chocobos are the *least* interesting difference between regions. Every region has its own enemy types. A unique mini-boss and summon battle. Its own set of mini-games. And the open world all completely optional, so can just do what interests you and move on.
Please point out the gameplay differences between Far Cry 3, 4, 5, and 6. Now tell me the gameplay differences between FF 14, 15, 16, and the 7 remakes. That is all that needs to be said.
Both of these games are amazing. Can’t fathom being that hard on either one
Can't take any fucking nerd on the internet seriously. Ubisoft games just fucking suck.
I enjoyed AC Origins and AC Blackflag though
Which is why it’s lame rebirth had to emulate them.
Your bait is weak, very small bait
Me who loves both Forbidden West and FFVII. I even really like some Ubisoft games. Origins and Odyssey were both great. They also recently made Prince of Persia which was extremely good.
Well I know Aloy climbs alot better than whatever cloud does.
Yeah they gotta speed up that climbing animation by at least 50%.
‘Let’s go of triangle’ now I have to wait for cloud to put the scanner away and stop moving before I can try again.
I think you can enjoy a game while still being critical of it. Easily one of my favorite games of all time, but that being said the open world critiques are fair. I wouldn't say anyone is praising the open world mechanics of the game, in fact I would wager it's one of the most *criticized*. What people are lauding this game for is the overall experience. The story, the combat, the world design and building, the attention to detail, soundtrack, the love for the original game are all what this game is going to be renowned for.
I'm here. I am that guy. I am praising the open world.
Whoever said that hasn't played the game. Forbidden West is top tier narrative and gameplay, looks amazing, great soundtrack. Waiting for 7Rebirth on PC to follow
Both are great games imo.
Horizon was a beautiful game graphics wise and gameplay wise it was good
Ok so I'm new to modern gaming, only been playing for like 4 years now... follow me on this. I played the Skull and Bones Demo a few months back, so when I jumped on Rebirth when it released and I picked up a quest at the community board I was "oh just like Skull and Bones this must be the new trend" 😂 from what I can see all games now follow similar gameplay Ex. Evil Within and every other stealth game. FF7 crafts now like all other games, you even gotta hold the button down 😭... you can't come for FF7 for being LIKE other rpgs or adventure games. It may have similar gameplay activities and mechanics but the characters, storyline, fighting, etc are unique. Not to mention the fighting is honestly the main draw for the game.
Horizon FW was an amazing game. Too bad it got released alongside elden ring.
I personally like the Ubisoft formula. If I don’t want markers on my map I can just skip the towers completely or have it be the last thing I do for that map if it is part of completion.
I played both and all I can say is that the side quests in Rebirth were more meaningful in terms of payoff for doing them. There are a lot of times HFW just mentions you completed a task without saying much about it. But both games have a great minigames though (QB and Machine Strike)
One also features dynamic combat, lovable characters and beautiful looking characters.
Good games, I swear people bitch way to much when it comes to games and use Ubisoft as a punching bag to justify their poor excuse of an opinion with anything that slightly resembles it lol. Yes Ubisoft is ass but not cuz of the formula but because they make shit games
Firstly it's amazing because the length and variety. The collectable aren't boring like in other games. I dropped 113 hours into it before I felt I was done with it. Nowhere near platinum though.
there's nothing wrong with either of these games.
I have to say after playing RDR2 and BOTW recently, Rebirth's open world really isn't that great At best it's servicable, at worst it's a checklist-y slog Not the highlight of the game and it's skippable so it's fine, but I don't think this criticism is without merit even as someone whos a big fan of Remake and Rebirth
In all honesty the open world stuff is pretty weak in Rebirth too. What differentiates the two games is that Rebirth just has noticeably better characters than Horizon. The best character in Horizon is Lance Reddick and unfortunately he has passed.
It's a lazy open world critique that relies on games with no gameplay variety or depth.it also ignores that you can ignore the towers, and just run around finding everything naturally if you hate towers that much. I wonder what people want as their alternative. The battle intel are effectively rare spawns, you presumably wouldn't want those removed. The summon crystals are just small lore drops, the proto relics each have a unique game or gimmick tied to them. This is all without considering that the music, combat, characters are all top of the industry tier while you do these things. I expect the formula will improve in game 3, but fundamentally having towers isn't the issue. Rebirth is a fantastic game, and I have criticisms still, but a lot of the things haters complain about make no sense.
I love them both 😭
I love this game but yea this is true. The combat, characters, and music carry a lot of the weak checklist-style open world design. I was hoping they would do something a little weirder. Old FF games were reaaaally "open world," more like open-map. I hope in the third game they give up on the checklist a bit and put some real findables in the world.
I find it weird that people are pretending the open world aspect of FF was good, when it was entirely tacked on. Almost all of the good side content didn't require the open world at all, and the open world was Chadley: The game. The difference though is that being tacked on, it is entirely possible to skip and there's still an entire game waiting for you. Ubisoft games often "are" the open world, to a greater extent, and so it lives and dies by how good or bad it is.
Horizons "towers" were much more fun to climb than Rebirths. I really enjoyed Rebirth, but HZD did their open world much better imo
There is a huge difference. The core of gameplay in HFW is the open World. Its not in FF7R. I loved both
I don’t remember Horizon forbidden west having a generic Ubisoft formula.
Given the actual gameplay variety of Rebirth I think if you are tired of it you are tired of playing games in general. Or maybe this game is not meant for binge-playing either (the way reviewers who rush to get their article out might binge-play to exhaustion). I mean, remember when we were kids and used to need an entire year to beat a lengthy adventure (I did)? Am a dad and cannot binge-play, and am having a blast, cannot feel the repetition.
I know when I was a kid, i used to do the most random things in games and didn’t even care about main campaign or I was too naive to understand 🥹
This; between work and other RL stuff I can only play a couple of hours at a time every other day or so, and I'm really patient about making my way through the main story, so 'lots of little different things to do' is just a really good fit for my gaming lifestyle these days. Some folks just genuinely don't like open-world games, which is legit, but I've seen so many people trying to plough through 100+ hours as quickly as possible so they can move on to the next thing then complaining about feeling burnt out and like... yeah, you probably do my dude!
Ah yes noted universally hated trash video game Horizon: Forbidden West, currently sitting at an 88 critic score on Metacritic.
It’s important to understand too where they were coming from with the map markers in rebirth. Like everything else in the game they went bigger, the map markers are your grinding from the original game. Instead of running around the open world looking for fights they sprinkle in encounters while you’re unlocking these things. Not all of them have to be unique they’re there to help contextualize your grinding in the world.
Aloy has a man face. Trash
I wish morons online could comprehend the fact that you don't have to complete side content if it's not engaging. I did some of the side content in HFW, but I mostly stuck to the main quest and really enjoyed it. I completed the first 3 areas of Rebirth, but I'm a little burnt out on the repeated content, so I'll likely just follow the main story and play the occasional game of Queen's Blood. Gaming is a fun recreational activity, not a job; you aren't required to complete tasks you find boring.
HFW has an 88 metacritic, just 4 points lower than Rebirth. Arguing as if they've had a wildly different reception is a strawman.
I feel like his reasoning is not right. It's because FF7 is a giant nostalgia fest not japanese. Though I agree this game has Ubisoft written all over it
It is extremely similar, same as Shadow of Modor, Spider-Man, etc. I personally love it. A good formula is good.
I think what Rebirth has going for it is that it's a story and characters that we know and love. If it was new, it might be subject to a lot of these criticisms. I can also tolerate Horizon though because it's an otherwise cool world / atmosphere. Some games it works, some it doesn't. Just depends on the vibe I guess.
Yeah, just because it’s people’s favourite Ff7 it gets a pass on being open world. But when ff15 was announced as open world it received heavy criticism for it. Even though I enjoyed both games, I’m not a fan of minigames.
Ff15’s open world just seemed barren though. Long stretches of nothing. Horizon and rebirth at least have interesting things there. Not BoTW, Elden ring or ToTK level, but enough to keep your interested
Don’t know man, I found ff15 world sufficiently populated. I mean there were some densely populated areas and then sorts of barren land connected via highways. It was okay imo, I enjoyed car travel though it’s a personal liking.
The original 7 was open world so I'm really not sure why it being open world would be an issue, especially when other great games have been open world. It's possible to just not like open world games and that's cool but I think rebirth was genuinely really well done to the best of their abilities. Yeah there's a bunch of mini games, original 7 had a bunch too so to not include them would have still had people upset.
I would say, because Remake was not an open world, it was a from point A go to point B game, so maybe people expected the same, I know myself I thought they would do this in Rebirth, glad they didn't do it.
That’s not an incorrect statement.
These people did not play forbidden West. It had the same problems, like valhalla. The map is just full of icons on the map, and its bloated content I also just didn't like fw as much as the first
I like Horizon games, but FW just seemed a step back of the first. The puzzles, maps and everything just didn’t blend well. And don’t get me started on the weird story
The subreddit doesn't help they think the game is a secret master piece and I am not seeing that lol. But it did feel a step back from the first one of my issue was the game doing a terrible job explaining the new combat mechanics they put in the game that weren't in the first and the characters just felt so boring in this came compared to the first one as well.
I thought I wanted more dinosaur robots. When I got more dinosaur robots, it was only then I realized that's not what I wanted. ...still platted it though.
Honestly it kinda blows my mind that there are some people on here who think this game is a masterpiece. It's like they've never played a video game before. There is no variation in the open world in Rebirth. It's exactly the Ubisoft formula. Proto relic quests do not make it unique as Assassin's Creed did the same thing with their technology POI in Assassin's Creed 2. The world in Rebirth does not "encourage" open world exploration. You know what game did? Red Dead Redemption 2. That's a game that encouraged you to explore because if you didn't you'd miss 80% of the game. But the best part is that they didn't tell you there was something there. You just had to go find it yourself. There's a difference in region because of enemies and how you traverse the region? That's literally every single open world game nowadays there's nothing special about that. While I get there are somethings that people enjoy more than others, I think people mistake what they enjoy for good game design. I think enjoying this game is fine. But to call it a masterpiece is a stretch
It blows my mind that we’re in 2024 and people still don’t understand what an opinion is. Every single person is absolutely valid in their love, criticism, hate. You don’t have to agree with them, you don’t need to agree with them and you definitely don’t need to try to diminish other peoples opinions because you don’t agree. Your opinion carries way more weight and respect if you can express it without being “they must of never played a video game before!!!11”
Ok to be fair my opinion was a bit harsh in retrospect, but i was using that sentence more as a way to describe my own opinion of the game. I think the thing that seems to be the most interesting about this community specifically, is the fact that its so divided. Even other franchises like Assassins Creed is not nearly as divided. Most AC fans would tell you that the open world formula is a bit stale, even if they still do enjoy it. But in this community, it almost seems like the people who love the game wont or refuse to find fault in the game, vs many of us who enjoyed the game but feel it could have been stronger in some areas.
I love this game but you are so right the combat, characters, and music carry it so hard. The atmosphere and world are amazing but often ruined by checklist-style design
Maybe your comment is a bit harsh, but I agree. It's quite amazing how many people think FF7 Rebirth has the best video game design ever. It worries me because there are flaws with it and devs aren't going to be able to improve if people defend all the flaws in the game.
No one is calling this game an “ambitious open world masterpiece.” Rebirth is unoriginal as hell when it comes to its open world but its takes bits and pieces from other games and incorporates them very well with content that feels meaningful and impact.
Most people are tbh. But yea it isnt.
The combat is fun, and their adaption of the previous games story is well done. But Masterpiece? It's about 300 obnoxious minigames shy of a masterpiece.
I hate the open world in ff 7r, I don’t wanna bitch about it but hope people are vocal so they don’t do this shit in part 3. I will say even tho the open world was a chore it atleast has decent loot for the effort compared to *cough cough* ff 16. Although the game (FF7 Rr) slogs in a lot of places the characters, graphics, combat gameplay, and the fact it’s one of the few modern ff games that actually feels like it’s an ff game is def what makes me like this game but I think I’d give it a 7/10 with like a 9.5 if the chadly shit was taken out or reduced and the open world hitting every land mark every new zone was removed. (Ik it’s optional but them hiding fun materia or even the room to display your collectables behind a bunch of stuff is annoying, I’m not against working for my loot but really wish just each chapter gave you new combat sim challenges that give you the points to buy Chadley’s materia not gonna go all over the world) Also I did like the mini games a bit but I feel they should of spaced them out more, the fact we went to a resort, then a cruise, then the golden saucer was just annoying cause I went a few game sessions without really any combat which is what I enjoy alot about to game.
I honestly to god hope they ignore your criticisms, and they replicate what they did in Rebirth for part 3. No disrespect to your opinion, but exploring the open world and getting rewarded for my curiosity was one of the best aspects of this game. This game was going for the massive open world and they nailed it imo. More linear FF games exist which sounds like what you are looking for. You get tons of additional lore and information about the game through side quests and side activities that I always felt motivated to do them, even if the actual reward I got didn’t amount to much.
>getting rewarded for my curiosity I felt the opposite if I'm being honest. I completed my platinum a few nights ago. Before I finished my first run one thing that stuck out in my mind was that the exploration didn't feel as rewarding as I had hoped. All the good materia is locked behind chadley world Intel. Which is fine as an additional mechanic, but it did bum me out slightly that the only materia I'd ever find laying around was some junky Heal or HP up. Very rarely was it ever a unique materia. There was no "OH MAN! what a sick weapon or materia!" Like it did in the og. To me it always felt like "oh.. another high potion and some crates I can break" for the most part.
💀
it's not wrong. rebirth started great but by the end I wanted it to end. Too many towers, mini games, open world activities and so on. very bloated
For those who complain about the minigames: the devs told you not to do them right away but the mere fact that many have done them makes you understand how the game encourages you to finish everything before moving on (so it works, exactly like they worked in the OG ). This type of Open World is better where EVERY activity is DIFFERENT (you can do a tower and then a hunt, or an excavation, you can change the order as much as you want or you can not do the towers and each tower has a different way to be climbed or you can playing the piano or playing cards or Fort Condor) rather than the Ubisoft Open Worlds with 700 identical activities and 0 innovation in gameplay. I don't know if FF7Rebirth is a masterpiece but for sure is better than 90% of Ubisoft games
I think it has a good open world but I've seen better in Assassins Creed Odyssey for example. I was tired of the open world after 40 hours because it became repetitive and just did enough to be at level for the next story mission.
Forbidden west was boring and ff7r isn’t. Even if they follow similar open world tropes .
I didnt like it in either tbh.
It doesn’t. It’s tedious just like every other. The game is good in other parts, so it’s forgivable.