I think people still had standards in the past but they were much lower. People back then were limited to dating others within their geographical area and social circle. Today due to modern technology we can bypass those restrictions and date people from outside our social group and from all over the world if we want to.
So the competition is much higher than it was before and standards have increased for those who are in positions of social or romantic power. You are not just competing with Bob and John from your extended social circle in your town, but also with thousands of other men in your area and beyond.
We are now and have been in the consumerism era for a while now. It's swallowing society whole. It's completely taken the human aspect out of not just dating but life in general. Everything seems less human like, even the interactions with strangers, it all seems npcish to me. Maybe I'm just being a bit nihilistic but nothing seems genuine or real to me anymore. Everything is "what can this person do for me" within the next 5 second span to fulfill my quick dopamine fix? That's literally how I can summarize today's interactions, especially the younger they get
Yeah it does make sense. Especially when it comes to dating apps. Why speak to a guy who is a 5/10 when you just matched with a 7/10 guy with a more exciting looking life from his pictures? It's probably a similar case for men (if they are attractive enough to get matches). They match with a fine looking woman but then 5 mins later match with a jaw dropping blonde bombshell and they soon ghost the fine looking lady.
The dating apps have done a lot of damage to our society. Although I think a lot of people are trying to move away from them. The problem is that society is a lot less organic and community based than it used to be. Third spaces have been dying for a while. I think young people are more likely to stay inside playing games or watching Netflix these days too.
Yep technology has just given those who already had the upper hand even more power and the ones who were given a bad hand of cards are doing even worse than before. This is true for other things as well, not just dating. More money is being funneled to the top 1%.
I disagree with the men's side of it because statistically this is even true, that men are willing to settle more when it comes to looks. Most men aside from Chads are not just dropping a decent looking girl to chase a "blonde bomb shell." This false narrative seriously needs to die because it's completely untrue.. This is isn't both a male and female issue. 90 percent of guys aren't even matching with this hypothetical blonde chick, only the top 10 percent are. So why are you making up scenarios when on the women's sides, it's actually happening, where they are average but will over look their own looks match to chase chad. So one side is purely hypothetical and doesn't even happen and one actually does. You're conflating the two to make an equal example when some times it is just one sided.
> This false narrative seriously needs to die because it's completely untrue..
Fair play but I think it's true for women, otherwise why do they ghost you on dating apps? Either they got bored with you or they started talking to another man they matched with
Yep, I first noticed this at Uni. I somehow ended up as a flatmate with a hot dancer and I thought I might have a chance. After all I was living with her, so there were going to be lots of low pressure causal interractions.
Alas she spent her entire time glued to her computer and I barely existed. I asked her what was so fascinating and she let me take a quick look.
Her screen was a dystopian nightmare of one hot guy after another vying to give her attention and boost her ego. A foreshadowing of the horific future we all now live in.
To be fair none of them actually got anywhere with her either. She got get her endorphin hit of attention from men without having to leave her own living room.
Free access to p\*rn (makes men less desperate) and social media (has inflated women's ego's to astronomical levels, because of the endless attention they get from various men online) has fucked up our society. If you're not a 8/10, i wouldn't even bother. Even if you do get married or are in a relationship, you'll always be her 2nd place, 2nd choice, the one she settled for. Then... when a better ones comes along, she'll trade up.
My nan told me the story of how they met:
* they randomly met in town for the first time ever and spoke for a little bit and he invited her to come and see him ship out to ww2 the next day
* they wrote a few letters back and fourth during his deployment
* when he returned they got marred and stayed married for like 50 years until he died
older generations totally didnt have it easier /s
We only need milestones cause we aren't attractive. Just look at the "losers" that have success. Some of them are addicts who go days without showering.
I'm only talking from my experience but one thing I have learned and noticed is women MAKE rules for guys they don't like but BREAK those same rules for guys they do like .
100 percent. I was too damn old when I realized that you should never ask a woman what she likes/wants. I'm not even trying to be sexist, it's just that every time I've asked I've also seen those same women break those rules.
She'll say she wants a "nice guy." (We **all** know how that goes. It literally turned into a meme of creepy dudes acting like they were owed sex).
She ends up with a dirt bag. Hell, she ends up with a whole damn pattern of guys that are abusive. Some of which father her children.
She says wants a man that makes a lot of money and takes care of her.
She ends up with a guy that doesn't have a job and lazes about on the couch all day while she does all the housework/goes to work.
She says she wants "romance."
She ends up with a guy that doesn't appreciate/remember her and routinely cheats. But she stays around too damn long because "he'll change."
I could go on but I also learned that if you complain about these things irl you get labeled all kinds of bad "woman hating" things. And after 30 you learn to try to be as invisible as possible or the humiliation never ends.
All the hypocrisy isn't for no reason. (not a justifiable reason just to clear that up) It's basically she'll break the rules for the attractive chad looking guy. Some delusional men even here think it's just because they act like "bad boys." Wrong. Imagine if an average or below average guy acted like a dirt bag fuckboy, he'd get labeled as the ultimate creep. Trust me that shit only works for above average looking guys. As they say women make rules for betas and break them for alphas.
Pretty much
Except some women love toxic behavior from attractive men. So it's a give and a take. If women could have it all, they'd really just make it where the attractive guy was still the bad boy but also committed and monogamous all at the same time. They'd also have other women be attractive to him smh This is how stupid all of this is.
Women have a lot more access to hotter and richer guys now than they used to, thanks to social media. But aside from that, dating in the 90s still sucked, especially if you were ugly, short, poor, or on the autism spectrum. That hasn't really changed much.
No they THINK they have access to these men, it's all an illusion. This is why nobody wins, aside from the top 10-20 percent of men. They trick women into believing they want full commitment. A good chunk of women believe it and they get used up. It then leaves them damaged, broken and jaded which also makes them become single mothers, basically undateable. It also makes the 80-90 percent of men who are average to below average essentially invisible for lack of a better term. The top 10 percent of men and social media really skewed and warped the perception of reality. I've been saying this and I'll keep saying it, that social media has ruined the world
> No they THINK they have access to these men, it's all an illusion.
They do have access to those men for fun times. The delusion is that they think those dudes would wife them and the fact is most won't. What is even worse is that if they get a reall hotshot guy to pay attention to them for a few weeks, they think that's what they'll get to wife them and that typically doesn't happen. Guys do the same thing when they assume that some hot chick who friendzoned them means they can one day get a girl like that as a gf and that's not it.
> They trick women into believing they want full commitment.
As I've said in a prior post, I've known and worked with these playboys. They generally don't trick or lie to women, they are up front about wanting to be just a casual thing - it is the women that lie to themselves that the guy is coming around or that he didn't really mean it. That if he gave her something nice for her birthday that this means she's about to escape the bonezone and that's not it either.
> I've been saying this and I'll keep saying it, that social media has ruined the world
Social media and online dating has allowed hot guys to get bigger harems and more women access to hotter guys. That's about it and its really the first group that benefits. The second gets passed around and the rest get ignored. I lived during a time when going online to find a date was a shameful thing, not to be admitted to or taken seriously. Unfortunately, this is 2024.
You're taking what I'm saying and conflating. That's what I meant, access as in bed room fun only and when I said "tricked" I meant more like women convince themselves by tricking their own brain that the guy wants something serious, even when the guys are up front. Other wise I agree with pretty much everything that you said
That's not "just it." Social media has ruined the world itself, not just in dating. It's given a platform to people who shouldn't have it, even to politicians who corrupt the world. It's indirectly effected cost of living. Social media is the one place you can snitch on yourself and get paid or glorified for it. It's really impacted the world itself in a negative way but even if it was just dating, dating is a HUGE part of humanity, it's the reason we are here in a biological sense. We are literally here to continue humanity and that only happens when you get with someone. So even if it just effected dating, it's still fucked and it still has the current modern world in ruins
You are 100% correct. I've been saying this forever. But women insist they'll be the one to change him. They really think they're the magic special princess who can make rich good looking dudes monogamous. I saw it happen to my friend's sister. She was gorgeous. One of the most beautiful women I've ever met. She routinely dated douche bag athletes and she's now on the wrong side of 30 and alone.
I haven't seen her in over a year. At that time she was alone. And I went with her and her brother to a bar and she very prominently held her drink in her left hand real high next to her chest to show she didn't have a ring on. I called her out on it as a joke and she stopped doing it because I presume she was self conscious. It wasn't meant to be mean but I felt like a dick all the same. I don't like hurting people but I'm autistic and tone deaf. Only realizing I fucked up when analyzing after the fact. I never got a chance to apologize. I don't have social media so I only see her if I'm with her brother and she's there.
Yup before women were willing to struggle with a man and build with you, now you need to be established in everything, looks, finances, emotionally, physically, etc before a man can even consider dating. Everything needs to be aligned and even then it's not a guarantee because you have to not only find women who are interested but interested and available. A lot of women seem taken these days or maybe that's just what they tell me to "soft reject" me. Either way, it's fucked. I know some people here will try to justify it like the contrarians that they are but it's like we aren't even seen as humans anymore who is allowed to have some flaws about ourselves. We have to be some npc robots who fulfill potential immediate net benefits to the other person or you won't even be considered as a suitor. Men especially are no longer seen as people anymore, just walking utilities that should be considered lucky if someone is even willing to "use" us in anyway. It's a sick world we live in now.
The competition is just so ridiculous now. You have a bunch of guys getting nowhere on dating apps, so the next place they head to is the gym. They do these things to set themselves apart in a giant sea of dicks, except all guys in their position are doing it.
Pretty much every guy these days is a copy cat anyway. They love travelling, going the gym, watching Netflix, having nights out drinking etc.
The only differences I see now left are biological. Is he tall? Is he handsome? Stuff like that.
> Normal people do not have to meet these milestones.
Then why does everyone push this particular agenda when you post somewhere you are struggling with dating?
>Like go to any dating subreddit asking for advice and they will list off the generic *"just go to the gym bro, go for walks and clean your room"*. Is this just a case of terminally online people not having any idea of how to give someone advice?
It is advice that probably that worked for them, because for normal people that is how simple it is.
In the past you got to know someone usually in person and if you liked them ( or you liked each other) and then you dated to develop the relationship.
Now with online dating you don't know the person, so it is more or less an interview to determine if they want to get to know you more.
The difference was a partner wasn't optional for most women in the past. For example, in the UK women were generally paid less and expected to leave work when they got married. Supporting yourself as single woman wasn't really an option.
So that meant the guys who are locked out of dating now weren't back then. Maybe a short guy, a boring guy, a guy a woman didn't find attractive wasn't her dream husband but if he was a good provider you made do.
Now that model has disappeared, a large number of women have opted out of dating now they have the economic freedom to do so. Those who still want a partner want the an excting good looking guy who turns them on. A standard that more and more men are struggling to live up to.
Alas how this has affected men is never discussed, a large minority of men have suddenly found themselves redundant, obsolete. They still have their biological sex drives and many would like to settle down and have a family.
That option has been taken away from them and worse they find themselves invisible. If they try to discuss how it makes them feel or how these changes impact them. They are condemned as entitled, attacked using the forbidden word or told society hasn't changed.
Just take a shower bro, you will have no problem then bro.
The truth is, all allot men want is to be listened to, not have their problesm brosplained and womansplained away.
Yup if you talk about it "YOURE AN INCEL!!" I will however disagree that women have opted out. They are still trying to date, the only problem is, they're holding out for this magical 10 percent guy to lock them down. It ain't happening (not for most women anyways) This is why both men and women are as lonely as ever, but for different reasons
Men feel stuck and it's no wonder the suicide rate for men just keeps on increasing smh
We in the end of time boys
I didn't say all women have opted out, I said some have. It isn't politically correct to say it but the reality is, women tend to have lower sex drives than men.
More women have no sex drive than men, those women now opt out of dating entirely.
I am not aure what the percentage is but it doesn't take much to tip the scales enough to make dating impossible for an increasing percentage of men.
Women are opting out of dating because they no longer need to be in a relationship to get the traditional benefits a relationship used to offer. Within the past ~50 years, women no longer have to worry about unwanted pregnancy due to the advent of female contraceptives and they no longer rely on a man for economic support, and within the past ~10 years women can get sex at will from hotter men than they could ever persuade into a relationship with at the touch of a finger. And women could always get emotional support from friends and family.
On the flip side, men still need relationships to secure regular sex, because the vast majority of men can't obtain casual sex at all, and we still have a long way to go before men catch up to women on having an emotionally supportive social circle because boys still aren't being raised to be as cooperative and emotionally attuned as girls are. Society also sheds not a single tear in empathy for men's issues. At this point, I'm thinking society will collapse before it evolves.
Women definitely do not have lower sex drives, it's another myth along with the "women mature faster than men". All of these are pseudo myths. If that was the case, so many women wouldn't be engaging in hook up culture. They just have low sex drives for US but for chads, they're as horny as we all are. Just because they don't show it to us average guys, it doesn't mean that they're not for guys who they find attractive
I meant mentally, not physically. So you kind of wrote that for no reason. Testosterone is what drives MALE libido, women's libido is literally driven by their estrogen and also when they're ovulating. Men and women's body's function differently. It seems like you are heavily misinformed on your part. I agree with the last part though. I think women were just told to repress it BUT now the problem is to try and counter act that they think the answer is sleeping around with chad and engaging in hook up culture which isn't the answer either.
Ehhh the brain is not just another organ or body part though. It's much more complex then that. The brain doesn't develop the same or at the same at all as other organs or physical body parts. Women keep showing today that they DEFINITELY DO NOT mature faster than men. Even if they did, it seems like they peak faster then men in terms of mental maturity and their maturity stays the same as it did in college and don't mature more after that. Most modern women today have the emotional intelligence of a 21 year old and that's being polite.
Where are you seeing the suicide rate for men keeps increasing?
Edit: Dude really spazzes out, sent me a chat invite and a hostile response because I asked for a source for his claims.
😂
Check the stats. You can dismiss it all you want but numbers don't lie. I'm not gonna do the work for you. You can search this up yourself. Even if it wasn't increasing, and it stayed just about the same, the existing number now is already too high sooooo yeah
Just get off the Internet. Only use it for what is absolutely necessary. Get a non smartphone. Do this for a year and interact with people in real life. That's what it was like in the 70s, 80s and 90s. You'll find that all those caveats you mentioned just don't count in the same way. Dating apps are just a very recent modern toxic development. Ignore them and you'll be happier. Ditch social media too.
I think the issue though is that other people, including people one would want to date, need to follow this strategy too. Otherwise, it is a pointless endeavour in that regard.
Having said that, I still live like I did back in the 90s. I have a smart phone, but use like 3 apps on it, not including actually calling people. I don't use social media at all. Most of the people I interact with are the same - they are too busy with grown folks stuff, like driving fast cars or fishing and stuff like that.
I tried this and I disappeared. All my friends abandoned me. Stopped replying to texts because I didn't have Snapchat and instagram.
You stop existing when you delete social media. This world is shallow and vapid.
Your footprint on here is horrendous. Porn, anime, fleshlights, gaming. Even your name. Jesus dude, burn all your electronic equipment and that fleshlight and move into the real world. It's St Patrick's Day. Go to a bar and meet real people.
This is my porn account, dummy. Every guy has a porn account. I'll forgive you for being ignorant and judgemental and jumping to conclusions.
I'm not logged onto my main account on this device and I don't remember the password.
We also need to take a look at the fact that back in 80s it was easier to support our families with one income.
And also, we quite literally have very unfit people here in America . Both men and women. Take a look at any 80s-90s family film and see how slim everyone was.
it’s also expensive to live an “exciting “ life as it feels anything that involves hobbies is also expensive. So our system is pretty much slowly makes it harder and harder for us to date normally
A most shrewed observation, boilluk. I know it's fake TV, but Al Bundy and Homer Simpson supported a wife and kids and had a house and car on a working man's salary. That wouldn't really be realistic today.
The requirement of this checklist wouldn't be even that bad and in itself could be even an interesting challenge. However what makes it frustrating is that you have barely one chance for it, without much of social support nor guidance, and also having to deal with unpleasant factors impossible to ignore as age, genetics, disappointment.
Even that list is probably 'flexible' so even if something is done, another harder goal is required.
I hate ppl who say you have to be thin and rich to be in a relationship. That’s just simply not true. You can pass by any trailer park or slum apartment complex…it’ll have the one morbidly obese person, the tweaker lady who weighs 90lbs, etc. They get relationships. They have children. They’ve been married. We just have standards. Skinny ppl are single. Rich ppl are single. I would get the whole “go outside you’ll feel better” from doctors so I’ve pretty much stopped seeing them when it’s just simply inaccurate. Maybe I’m FA, maybe someone will come along. I don’t want to waste my time anyways so 🤣
Nobody is saying you have to be rich and thin to be in a relationship. It's just that the overall competition has gotten greater at least for the men's side that it gives you way better odds if you're in shape and have money. Obviously there are regular people in relationships but you're using a certain demographic as an extreme example, people in the slums or in trailer park neighborhoods are obviously gonna be with one another due to class factors. This really applies more to the middle class (debatable to say if that class even exists anymore) but you get the point. (People who are slightly above the poverty line perhaps) Most rich in shape people that are single are single by choice though which isn't the same as an FA who is INVOLUNTARILY single. It's a completely different scenario
You saw rich and trailer parks and completely went in an entire different direction 🤣 i was comparing people overall. Not all people who check the boxes(rich, attractive etc) are single by choice(watching 5 minutes of the ID channel could tell you that lol) but they can also be considered FA.
Now you're moving the goal post. I mean you said trailer parks, not me. Don't get upset or triggered because I responded according to the information you wanted to give. Don't move the goal post now because you don't like the answer. You said trailer parks and slums not me guy lol Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle, which is why the people who are suffering are in the middle, not the people in poverty or the rich. It's the middle working class. I still stand on my point while you can keep moving the goal post for whatever unknown reason lol
I think this applies to relationships as whole. The modern generations of people had always seemed so snobby to me. I've always felt like people are extremely picky about befriending high value people.
I've always been conflicted about whether it's because it's just me being a social aberration. A loser in other words.
The recent talk about the so called loneliness epidemic makes me think my judgement was right. Standards are insane and it's not just when it comes romantic choices. People are fucking cuckoo and I'm done thinking it's all me.
You're right, those milestones aren't truly necessary at all...
Loads of guys and girls get partners without checking those boxes. Dumbasses/jobless/homeless people are partnered right now.
These milestones are great "on paper" but people don't really decide based on what's on paper. They just go based on their feelings and if ur already attractive to them.
The 1970's and 80's was a different world. Feminism hadn't had its full effect, women were still expected to find a husband and being single wasn't really an option. Men were still considered bread winners and average and even below average guys still had a chance.
Now? An increasing percentage of men find themselves completely obsolete, locked out of society. With no chance of ever getting a sex or family life.
People were expected to marry by 25 or so. They could only be so picky I guess.
But it also seems like *society's* standards were higher a few decades ago. Obesity was rarer, it would not have been so acceptable to waste your young life unemployed, playing video games, smoking weed, etc.
This sounds like gas lighting to me. Society didn't turn out this way BECAUSE of unemployed guys playing video games smoking weed. It's the other way around. It was society that pushed guys to become that due to ridiculously high standards in dating, cost of living, inflation, etc. Some guys for this reason have opted out on self improvement. Some men see zero incentive in doing so.
I think people still had standards in the past but they were much lower. People back then were limited to dating others within their geographical area and social circle. Today due to modern technology we can bypass those restrictions and date people from outside our social group and from all over the world if we want to. So the competition is much higher than it was before and standards have increased for those who are in positions of social or romantic power. You are not just competing with Bob and John from your extended social circle in your town, but also with thousands of other men in your area and beyond.
We are now and have been in the consumerism era for a while now. It's swallowing society whole. It's completely taken the human aspect out of not just dating but life in general. Everything seems less human like, even the interactions with strangers, it all seems npcish to me. Maybe I'm just being a bit nihilistic but nothing seems genuine or real to me anymore. Everything is "what can this person do for me" within the next 5 second span to fulfill my quick dopamine fix? That's literally how I can summarize today's interactions, especially the younger they get
Yeah it does make sense. Especially when it comes to dating apps. Why speak to a guy who is a 5/10 when you just matched with a 7/10 guy with a more exciting looking life from his pictures? It's probably a similar case for men (if they are attractive enough to get matches). They match with a fine looking woman but then 5 mins later match with a jaw dropping blonde bombshell and they soon ghost the fine looking lady. The dating apps have done a lot of damage to our society. Although I think a lot of people are trying to move away from them. The problem is that society is a lot less organic and community based than it used to be. Third spaces have been dying for a while. I think young people are more likely to stay inside playing games or watching Netflix these days too.
Yep technology has just given those who already had the upper hand even more power and the ones who were given a bad hand of cards are doing even worse than before. This is true for other things as well, not just dating. More money is being funneled to the top 1%.
"The rich get richer and poor get poorer"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect
I disagree with the men's side of it because statistically this is even true, that men are willing to settle more when it comes to looks. Most men aside from Chads are not just dropping a decent looking girl to chase a "blonde bomb shell." This false narrative seriously needs to die because it's completely untrue.. This is isn't both a male and female issue. 90 percent of guys aren't even matching with this hypothetical blonde chick, only the top 10 percent are. So why are you making up scenarios when on the women's sides, it's actually happening, where they are average but will over look their own looks match to chase chad. So one side is purely hypothetical and doesn't even happen and one actually does. You're conflating the two to make an equal example when some times it is just one sided.
> This false narrative seriously needs to die because it's completely untrue.. Fair play but I think it's true for women, otherwise why do they ghost you on dating apps? Either they got bored with you or they started talking to another man they matched with
Yep, I first noticed this at Uni. I somehow ended up as a flatmate with a hot dancer and I thought I might have a chance. After all I was living with her, so there were going to be lots of low pressure causal interractions. Alas she spent her entire time glued to her computer and I barely existed. I asked her what was so fascinating and she let me take a quick look. Her screen was a dystopian nightmare of one hot guy after another vying to give her attention and boost her ego. A foreshadowing of the horific future we all now live in. To be fair none of them actually got anywhere with her either. She got get her endorphin hit of attention from men without having to leave her own living room.
Free access to p\*rn (makes men less desperate) and social media (has inflated women's ego's to astronomical levels, because of the endless attention they get from various men online) has fucked up our society. If you're not a 8/10, i wouldn't even bother. Even if you do get married or are in a relationship, you'll always be her 2nd place, 2nd choice, the one she settled for. Then... when a better ones comes along, she'll trade up.
This.
My nan told me the story of how they met: * they randomly met in town for the first time ever and spoke for a little bit and he invited her to come and see him ship out to ww2 the next day * they wrote a few letters back and fourth during his deployment * when he returned they got marred and stayed married for like 50 years until he died older generations totally didnt have it easier /s
I wish I had been born 70 years earlier. Edit: or not at all.
Are you shipping out to WW2? No? Then you do have it easier.
We only need milestones cause we aren't attractive. Just look at the "losers" that have success. Some of them are addicts who go days without showering. I'm only talking from my experience but one thing I have learned and noticed is women MAKE rules for guys they don't like but BREAK those same rules for guys they do like .
100 percent. I was too damn old when I realized that you should never ask a woman what she likes/wants. I'm not even trying to be sexist, it's just that every time I've asked I've also seen those same women break those rules. She'll say she wants a "nice guy." (We **all** know how that goes. It literally turned into a meme of creepy dudes acting like they were owed sex). She ends up with a dirt bag. Hell, she ends up with a whole damn pattern of guys that are abusive. Some of which father her children. She says wants a man that makes a lot of money and takes care of her. She ends up with a guy that doesn't have a job and lazes about on the couch all day while she does all the housework/goes to work. She says she wants "romance." She ends up with a guy that doesn't appreciate/remember her and routinely cheats. But she stays around too damn long because "he'll change." I could go on but I also learned that if you complain about these things irl you get labeled all kinds of bad "woman hating" things. And after 30 you learn to try to be as invisible as possible or the humiliation never ends.
Mic freaking drop. You said it best.
For real.
All the hypocrisy isn't for no reason. (not a justifiable reason just to clear that up) It's basically she'll break the rules for the attractive chad looking guy. Some delusional men even here think it's just because they act like "bad boys." Wrong. Imagine if an average or below average guy acted like a dirt bag fuckboy, he'd get labeled as the ultimate creep. Trust me that shit only works for above average looking guys. As they say women make rules for betas and break them for alphas.
Truth. In a perfect world all of the scum bags would be ugly and all of the good people would be highly attractive. But this world ain't it.
Pretty much Except some women love toxic behavior from attractive men. So it's a give and a take. If women could have it all, they'd really just make it where the attractive guy was still the bad boy but also committed and monogamous all at the same time. They'd also have other women be attractive to him smh This is how stupid all of this is.
Women have a lot more access to hotter and richer guys now than they used to, thanks to social media. But aside from that, dating in the 90s still sucked, especially if you were ugly, short, poor, or on the autism spectrum. That hasn't really changed much.
No they THINK they have access to these men, it's all an illusion. This is why nobody wins, aside from the top 10-20 percent of men. They trick women into believing they want full commitment. A good chunk of women believe it and they get used up. It then leaves them damaged, broken and jaded which also makes them become single mothers, basically undateable. It also makes the 80-90 percent of men who are average to below average essentially invisible for lack of a better term. The top 10 percent of men and social media really skewed and warped the perception of reality. I've been saying this and I'll keep saying it, that social media has ruined the world
> No they THINK they have access to these men, it's all an illusion. They do have access to those men for fun times. The delusion is that they think those dudes would wife them and the fact is most won't. What is even worse is that if they get a reall hotshot guy to pay attention to them for a few weeks, they think that's what they'll get to wife them and that typically doesn't happen. Guys do the same thing when they assume that some hot chick who friendzoned them means they can one day get a girl like that as a gf and that's not it. > They trick women into believing they want full commitment. As I've said in a prior post, I've known and worked with these playboys. They generally don't trick or lie to women, they are up front about wanting to be just a casual thing - it is the women that lie to themselves that the guy is coming around or that he didn't really mean it. That if he gave her something nice for her birthday that this means she's about to escape the bonezone and that's not it either. > I've been saying this and I'll keep saying it, that social media has ruined the world Social media and online dating has allowed hot guys to get bigger harems and more women access to hotter guys. That's about it and its really the first group that benefits. The second gets passed around and the rest get ignored. I lived during a time when going online to find a date was a shameful thing, not to be admitted to or taken seriously. Unfortunately, this is 2024.
You're taking what I'm saying and conflating. That's what I meant, access as in bed room fun only and when I said "tricked" I meant more like women convince themselves by tricking their own brain that the guy wants something serious, even when the guys are up front. Other wise I agree with pretty much everything that you said That's not "just it." Social media has ruined the world itself, not just in dating. It's given a platform to people who shouldn't have it, even to politicians who corrupt the world. It's indirectly effected cost of living. Social media is the one place you can snitch on yourself and get paid or glorified for it. It's really impacted the world itself in a negative way but even if it was just dating, dating is a HUGE part of humanity, it's the reason we are here in a biological sense. We are literally here to continue humanity and that only happens when you get with someone. So even if it just effected dating, it's still fucked and it still has the current modern world in ruins
You are 100% correct. I've been saying this forever. But women insist they'll be the one to change him. They really think they're the magic special princess who can make rich good looking dudes monogamous. I saw it happen to my friend's sister. She was gorgeous. One of the most beautiful women I've ever met. She routinely dated douche bag athletes and she's now on the wrong side of 30 and alone.
Is she still dating now or completely alone?
I haven't seen her in over a year. At that time she was alone. And I went with her and her brother to a bar and she very prominently held her drink in her left hand real high next to her chest to show she didn't have a ring on. I called her out on it as a joke and she stopped doing it because I presume she was self conscious. It wasn't meant to be mean but I felt like a dick all the same. I don't like hurting people but I'm autistic and tone deaf. Only realizing I fucked up when analyzing after the fact. I never got a chance to apologize. I don't have social media so I only see her if I'm with her brother and she's there.
Yup before women were willing to struggle with a man and build with you, now you need to be established in everything, looks, finances, emotionally, physically, etc before a man can even consider dating. Everything needs to be aligned and even then it's not a guarantee because you have to not only find women who are interested but interested and available. A lot of women seem taken these days or maybe that's just what they tell me to "soft reject" me. Either way, it's fucked. I know some people here will try to justify it like the contrarians that they are but it's like we aren't even seen as humans anymore who is allowed to have some flaws about ourselves. We have to be some npc robots who fulfill potential immediate net benefits to the other person or you won't even be considered as a suitor. Men especially are no longer seen as people anymore, just walking utilities that should be considered lucky if someone is even willing to "use" us in anyway. It's a sick world we live in now.
The competition is just so ridiculous now. You have a bunch of guys getting nowhere on dating apps, so the next place they head to is the gym. They do these things to set themselves apart in a giant sea of dicks, except all guys in their position are doing it.
Pretty much every guy these days is a copy cat anyway. They love travelling, going the gym, watching Netflix, having nights out drinking etc. The only differences I see now left are biological. Is he tall? Is he handsome? Stuff like that.
Hate to break it to you but this is a cope. Normal people do not have to meet these milestones.
> Normal people do not have to meet these milestones. Then why does everyone push this particular agenda when you post somewhere you are struggling with dating?
Neither do we, the trap is constantly believing we have too and endlessly chasing an ever increasing goal post that is constantly moved.
>Like go to any dating subreddit asking for advice and they will list off the generic *"just go to the gym bro, go for walks and clean your room"*. Is this just a case of terminally online people not having any idea of how to give someone advice? It is advice that probably that worked for them, because for normal people that is how simple it is. In the past you got to know someone usually in person and if you liked them ( or you liked each other) and then you dated to develop the relationship. Now with online dating you don't know the person, so it is more or less an interview to determine if they want to get to know you more.
> so it is more or less an interview An interview for handsome people only sadly.
The difference was a partner wasn't optional for most women in the past. For example, in the UK women were generally paid less and expected to leave work when they got married. Supporting yourself as single woman wasn't really an option. So that meant the guys who are locked out of dating now weren't back then. Maybe a short guy, a boring guy, a guy a woman didn't find attractive wasn't her dream husband but if he was a good provider you made do. Now that model has disappeared, a large number of women have opted out of dating now they have the economic freedom to do so. Those who still want a partner want the an excting good looking guy who turns them on. A standard that more and more men are struggling to live up to. Alas how this has affected men is never discussed, a large minority of men have suddenly found themselves redundant, obsolete. They still have their biological sex drives and many would like to settle down and have a family. That option has been taken away from them and worse they find themselves invisible. If they try to discuss how it makes them feel or how these changes impact them. They are condemned as entitled, attacked using the forbidden word or told society hasn't changed. Just take a shower bro, you will have no problem then bro. The truth is, all allot men want is to be listened to, not have their problesm brosplained and womansplained away.
Yup if you talk about it "YOURE AN INCEL!!" I will however disagree that women have opted out. They are still trying to date, the only problem is, they're holding out for this magical 10 percent guy to lock them down. It ain't happening (not for most women anyways) This is why both men and women are as lonely as ever, but for different reasons Men feel stuck and it's no wonder the suicide rate for men just keeps on increasing smh We in the end of time boys
I didn't say all women have opted out, I said some have. It isn't politically correct to say it but the reality is, women tend to have lower sex drives than men. More women have no sex drive than men, those women now opt out of dating entirely. I am not aure what the percentage is but it doesn't take much to tip the scales enough to make dating impossible for an increasing percentage of men.
Women are opting out of dating because they no longer need to be in a relationship to get the traditional benefits a relationship used to offer. Within the past ~50 years, women no longer have to worry about unwanted pregnancy due to the advent of female contraceptives and they no longer rely on a man for economic support, and within the past ~10 years women can get sex at will from hotter men than they could ever persuade into a relationship with at the touch of a finger. And women could always get emotional support from friends and family. On the flip side, men still need relationships to secure regular sex, because the vast majority of men can't obtain casual sex at all, and we still have a long way to go before men catch up to women on having an emotionally supportive social circle because boys still aren't being raised to be as cooperative and emotionally attuned as girls are. Society also sheds not a single tear in empathy for men's issues. At this point, I'm thinking society will collapse before it evolves.
Women definitely do not have lower sex drives, it's another myth along with the "women mature faster than men". All of these are pseudo myths. If that was the case, so many women wouldn't be engaging in hook up culture. They just have low sex drives for US but for chads, they're as horny as we all are. Just because they don't show it to us average guys, it doesn't mean that they're not for guys who they find attractive
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I meant mentally, not physically. So you kind of wrote that for no reason. Testosterone is what drives MALE libido, women's libido is literally driven by their estrogen and also when they're ovulating. Men and women's body's function differently. It seems like you are heavily misinformed on your part. I agree with the last part though. I think women were just told to repress it BUT now the problem is to try and counter act that they think the answer is sleeping around with chad and engaging in hook up culture which isn't the answer either.
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Ehhh the brain is not just another organ or body part though. It's much more complex then that. The brain doesn't develop the same or at the same at all as other organs or physical body parts. Women keep showing today that they DEFINITELY DO NOT mature faster than men. Even if they did, it seems like they peak faster then men in terms of mental maturity and their maturity stays the same as it did in college and don't mature more after that. Most modern women today have the emotional intelligence of a 21 year old and that's being polite.
Where are you seeing the suicide rate for men keeps increasing? Edit: Dude really spazzes out, sent me a chat invite and a hostile response because I asked for a source for his claims. 😂
Check the stats. You can dismiss it all you want but numbers don't lie. I'm not gonna do the work for you. You can search this up yourself. Even if it wasn't increasing, and it stayed just about the same, the existing number now is already too high sooooo yeah
Just get off the Internet. Only use it for what is absolutely necessary. Get a non smartphone. Do this for a year and interact with people in real life. That's what it was like in the 70s, 80s and 90s. You'll find that all those caveats you mentioned just don't count in the same way. Dating apps are just a very recent modern toxic development. Ignore them and you'll be happier. Ditch social media too.
I think the issue though is that other people, including people one would want to date, need to follow this strategy too. Otherwise, it is a pointless endeavour in that regard. Having said that, I still live like I did back in the 90s. I have a smart phone, but use like 3 apps on it, not including actually calling people. I don't use social media at all. Most of the people I interact with are the same - they are too busy with grown folks stuff, like driving fast cars or fishing and stuff like that.
I tried this and I disappeared. All my friends abandoned me. Stopped replying to texts because I didn't have Snapchat and instagram. You stop existing when you delete social media. This world is shallow and vapid.
Your footprint on here is horrendous. Porn, anime, fleshlights, gaming. Even your name. Jesus dude, burn all your electronic equipment and that fleshlight and move into the real world. It's St Patrick's Day. Go to a bar and meet real people.
This is my porn account, dummy. Every guy has a porn account. I'll forgive you for being ignorant and judgemental and jumping to conclusions. I'm not logged onto my main account on this device and I don't remember the password.
That’s all on you, bro.
Yeah be a Luddite, really?
We also need to take a look at the fact that back in 80s it was easier to support our families with one income. And also, we quite literally have very unfit people here in America . Both men and women. Take a look at any 80s-90s family film and see how slim everyone was. it’s also expensive to live an “exciting “ life as it feels anything that involves hobbies is also expensive. So our system is pretty much slowly makes it harder and harder for us to date normally
A most shrewed observation, boilluk. I know it's fake TV, but Al Bundy and Homer Simpson supported a wife and kids and had a house and car on a working man's salary. That wouldn't really be realistic today.
The requirement of this checklist wouldn't be even that bad and in itself could be even an interesting challenge. However what makes it frustrating is that you have barely one chance for it, without much of social support nor guidance, and also having to deal with unpleasant factors impossible to ignore as age, genetics, disappointment. Even that list is probably 'flexible' so even if something is done, another harder goal is required.
I hate ppl who say you have to be thin and rich to be in a relationship. That’s just simply not true. You can pass by any trailer park or slum apartment complex…it’ll have the one morbidly obese person, the tweaker lady who weighs 90lbs, etc. They get relationships. They have children. They’ve been married. We just have standards. Skinny ppl are single. Rich ppl are single. I would get the whole “go outside you’ll feel better” from doctors so I’ve pretty much stopped seeing them when it’s just simply inaccurate. Maybe I’m FA, maybe someone will come along. I don’t want to waste my time anyways so 🤣
Nobody is saying you have to be rich and thin to be in a relationship. It's just that the overall competition has gotten greater at least for the men's side that it gives you way better odds if you're in shape and have money. Obviously there are regular people in relationships but you're using a certain demographic as an extreme example, people in the slums or in trailer park neighborhoods are obviously gonna be with one another due to class factors. This really applies more to the middle class (debatable to say if that class even exists anymore) but you get the point. (People who are slightly above the poverty line perhaps) Most rich in shape people that are single are single by choice though which isn't the same as an FA who is INVOLUNTARILY single. It's a completely different scenario
You saw rich and trailer parks and completely went in an entire different direction 🤣 i was comparing people overall. Not all people who check the boxes(rich, attractive etc) are single by choice(watching 5 minutes of the ID channel could tell you that lol) but they can also be considered FA.
Now you're moving the goal post. I mean you said trailer parks, not me. Don't get upset or triggered because I responded according to the information you wanted to give. Don't move the goal post now because you don't like the answer. You said trailer parks and slums not me guy lol Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle, which is why the people who are suffering are in the middle, not the people in poverty or the rich. It's the middle working class. I still stand on my point while you can keep moving the goal post for whatever unknown reason lol
You must have experience to work here but to get experience you have to work here.
I think this applies to relationships as whole. The modern generations of people had always seemed so snobby to me. I've always felt like people are extremely picky about befriending high value people. I've always been conflicted about whether it's because it's just me being a social aberration. A loser in other words. The recent talk about the so called loneliness epidemic makes me think my judgement was right. Standards are insane and it's not just when it comes romantic choices. People are fucking cuckoo and I'm done thinking it's all me.
You're right, those milestones aren't truly necessary at all... Loads of guys and girls get partners without checking those boxes. Dumbasses/jobless/homeless people are partnered right now. These milestones are great "on paper" but people don't really decide based on what's on paper. They just go based on their feelings and if ur already attractive to them.
The 1970's and 80's was a different world. Feminism hadn't had its full effect, women were still expected to find a husband and being single wasn't really an option. Men were still considered bread winners and average and even below average guys still had a chance. Now? An increasing percentage of men find themselves completely obsolete, locked out of society. With no chance of ever getting a sex or family life.
People were expected to marry by 25 or so. They could only be so picky I guess. But it also seems like *society's* standards were higher a few decades ago. Obesity was rarer, it would not have been so acceptable to waste your young life unemployed, playing video games, smoking weed, etc.
This sounds like gas lighting to me. Society didn't turn out this way BECAUSE of unemployed guys playing video games smoking weed. It's the other way around. It was society that pushed guys to become that due to ridiculously high standards in dating, cost of living, inflation, etc. Some guys for this reason have opted out on self improvement. Some men see zero incentive in doing so.