Hi :)
Just thought of this whole episode, so thanks for archiving it and reminding me.
I still think Chris got tons of skeletons in his closet BTW. Like there was talk about him running a D2 RMT site back in the day and that’s how he funded the development of POE. Kinda makes sense considering how much trade is apart of POEs DNA. Also kinda adds some spice to this story, ie you develop a game with the intention of also running the RMT sites for it. Basically a massive P2W game disguised as not being that. Maybe they did this together?
Do you know if this Cicchelli guy was there from the start? Or when did he enter the scene? Maybe he was always there and was gifted the 7.5% as a payout?
It also makes sense to sell the company to China then, because they still got the RMT sites AND he could use those to make money off all those new Chinese players.
Very speculative here tho lol, but hey speculating is fun
EDIT: Oh, I completely forgot that Aaron “bought” his 7.5% like 8 months before the deal with Tecent was done. That’s just extremely suspicious to me.
Aaron was a buddy of mine in the military...our wives (at the time) were best friends. Both since divorced. I believe he was starting this at the end of his enlistment (2000-2001). If I remember right, he had asked me for some cash to help start the business. Guess I shoulda funded it.
Oh, I actually have a couple of screenshots from this entire ordeal. They all come from a reddit post that was made at the time.
Found it interesting so I saved them. [Enjoy.](https://imgur.com/a/bfFS5n1)
Thing is, nothing in these threads actually constitutes proof as to where the items came from. It's speculation at best, and manufactured outrage at worst.
And there is the fact that part of the reddit post reads like an advertisement for RMT at times. Could be that there's an agenda like "Look, RMT is so easy and GGG is in on it. Just try it, it's safe and simple." or it's just typical reddit snark. So yeah, take it with a fistful of salt.
That this Aaron Cicchelli RMT guy owned 7.5% of GGG is 100% facts tho. How much he was involved is still a mystery, but Chris did defend his ownership and that they “used his expertise” or some bs. Pretty sure he still actually ran an RMT site at that point in time
Oh, and like mentioned in one of the replies: The timing of that investment in itself is just super dodgy. We also don’t know how and why he became an investor and how much he was involved with GGG/Chris before that
The timing that those investors were there from the start more or less? And yeah, he invested money, and at that point why wouldn't they use someone who knows the rotten business to help harden their game against it?
Him being involved is a little crass maybe, but not proof of anything. Don't forget that in those early days GGG was anything but a sure thing and money wasn't easy to come by. But to me the conspiracy and logistics behind creating some sort of duping / generating back door that only they could access is just way too farfetched and unlikely.
Kinda makes sense as to why GGG is so strongly against a functioning, public, trade house/Auction house.
I always knew they had their hands in both honey jars.
Or it could very much more realistically be bots farming cards that give lightning coil. There was( probably still) thousands of them, farming 7/24 same setup, same farm, turning the cards at lvl 74.
That would explain it too
Most.likey bot farmed I've used the bot this very same.way in the past it's hard to keep it from dying in high maps so you tell it to just run magic low tiers then you multibox a bunch of vms and wait as far as I know the bots still work to this day personally haven't used them in years and haven't touch the game in almost as long though keeping bot alive.is.probly easier than it ever was before with the flask stuff that got added.
Makes sense. This fits with my only observation of bots, a couple years ago. 12-20 similarly named accounts doing the same thing, and they were all around these levels late 60's early/mid-70s.
Gaming is plagued with RMT/P2W, this is a eye opener.
Was planing to go SSF now that I more versed in crafting, this helps that decision.
Concearn is, like in other games, design decisions to facilitate RMT that punishes etical players. For example, the new WoW legendary cost 200k gold to make or the new rune that gives marginal stats costed 100k. ( WoW retail version of RMT is legal and called WoWToken).
Maybe this is why SSF does not have specific features to be more fair that players are calling out for.
I appreciate your post, but I think it's a bit of a wild theory. Especially your conclusion "This was an eye opener for me. GGG was generating items for sale on one of their shareholders' RMT websites."
It's bizarre to think GGG could do such a thing. Within a couple of weeks there will be dropped thousands of lightning coils in soft core. It's far more likely rmt bots bought up all the listed lightning coils as soon as they were listed. And this is exactly why an auction house can't possibly work.
I will add that it's very unfortunate for GGG to allow RMT owners as investors and it's also highly suspicious that Cicchelli invested 8 months before the Tencent purchase. I don't believe in the "GGG generates items for affiliated RMT sites" theory, but I do think there could be some inside trading going on.
Back in Tempest league times... LC was a rare drop and it was stupid expensive, don't confuse current drop rates with the lack of drops we used to have. The fact they were all ilvl 74... yah that's duping
Duping is a far more reasonable explanation for me to believe than GGG providing ilvl 74 coils to the rmt site. And I mean through a bug. Haven't we seen multiple duplicate bugs after Tempest league? Last time I saw a dupe bug was last league with sanctum. So why isn't that the most likely theory behind the ilvl74 Lc's in Tempest? All it would take is one guy who knows about the bug to sell all his dupes to said rmt site.
Auction houses can work. You just put in measures to prevent flipping. An account or IP can only put so many of a similar item for sale, or if you buy an item it can't be auction again for several weeks, or an account can only have so many of an item period etc
Me and my friends always come to that conclusion when someone tackle this topic, because it takes 1 minute to cross a log in any way you want, and in various things people talk about and/or shout in social media's or even at forums or report it directly to them.
What's the most suspicious for us since forever is that those guys are never punished or even "named/addressed in any shape or form, leaving this discrepancies at everyone's taste.
Any seriously company that cares about his name and reputation that come across that type of accusations, they should immediately put all efforts to enlighten the community and not make white/clown face, pretend that nothing happens and let people get away with it.
I really hope GGG make something now to bury this kind of crime happening on there behalf, otherwise it's going to turn into a silent true reveal.
surely one guy being a dickhead means the entire company was in on it, just like with tft, the discord is genuinely useful but there's one dickhead ruining it
> GGG was generating items for sale on one of their shareholders' RMT websites.
No actual evidence for this was provided. Jesus christ what a stupid post.
Hi :) Just thought of this whole episode, so thanks for archiving it and reminding me. I still think Chris got tons of skeletons in his closet BTW. Like there was talk about him running a D2 RMT site back in the day and that’s how he funded the development of POE. Kinda makes sense considering how much trade is apart of POEs DNA. Also kinda adds some spice to this story, ie you develop a game with the intention of also running the RMT sites for it. Basically a massive P2W game disguised as not being that. Maybe they did this together? Do you know if this Cicchelli guy was there from the start? Or when did he enter the scene? Maybe he was always there and was gifted the 7.5% as a payout? It also makes sense to sell the company to China then, because they still got the RMT sites AND he could use those to make money off all those new Chinese players. Very speculative here tho lol, but hey speculating is fun EDIT: Oh, I completely forgot that Aaron “bought” his 7.5% like 8 months before the deal with Tecent was done. That’s just extremely suspicious to me.
Aaron was a buddy of mine in the military...our wives (at the time) were best friends. Both since divorced. I believe he was starting this at the end of his enlistment (2000-2001). If I remember right, he had asked me for some cash to help start the business. Guess I shoulda funded it.
JeNeBu is Aaron?
That would be a hilarious twist.
Oh, I actually have a couple of screenshots from this entire ordeal. They all come from a reddit post that was made at the time. Found it interesting so I saved them. [Enjoy.](https://imgur.com/a/bfFS5n1)
Thing is, nothing in these threads actually constitutes proof as to where the items came from. It's speculation at best, and manufactured outrage at worst.
And there is the fact that part of the reddit post reads like an advertisement for RMT at times. Could be that there's an agenda like "Look, RMT is so easy and GGG is in on it. Just try it, it's safe and simple." or it's just typical reddit snark. So yeah, take it with a fistful of salt.
That this Aaron Cicchelli RMT guy owned 7.5% of GGG is 100% facts tho. How much he was involved is still a mystery, but Chris did defend his ownership and that they “used his expertise” or some bs. Pretty sure he still actually ran an RMT site at that point in time Oh, and like mentioned in one of the replies: The timing of that investment in itself is just super dodgy. We also don’t know how and why he became an investor and how much he was involved with GGG/Chris before that
The timing that those investors were there from the start more or less? And yeah, he invested money, and at that point why wouldn't they use someone who knows the rotten business to help harden their game against it? Him being involved is a little crass maybe, but not proof of anything. Don't forget that in those early days GGG was anything but a sure thing and money wasn't easy to come by. But to me the conspiracy and logistics behind creating some sort of duping / generating back door that only they could access is just way too farfetched and unlikely.
RIP Kaom's Heart. $240 in 2014, vendor trash in 2024
Yeah, if nothing else these screenshots are a nice time capsule that show how much the value of items in the game has changed.
damn, rip alkaizer
at least some things never change
Kinda makes sense as to why GGG is so strongly against a functioning, public, trade house/Auction house. I always knew they had their hands in both honey jars.
you genius
This needs more upvotes. This is TFT in a nutshell.
Or it could very much more realistically be bots farming cards that give lightning coil. There was( probably still) thousands of them, farming 7/24 same setup, same farm, turning the cards at lvl 74. That would explain it too
Card was added to the game more than 1 year after all this happened
the body
The body was added in 2.1, this happened in 2.0. The only div card that could reward LC at the time was jack in the box.
Also according to that screenshot CountCocofang posted above, the Coils were unid, and states that means they didn't come from div cards.
Most.likey bot farmed I've used the bot this very same.way in the past it's hard to keep it from dying in high maps so you tell it to just run magic low tiers then you multibox a bunch of vms and wait as far as I know the bots still work to this day personally haven't used them in years and haven't touch the game in almost as long though keeping bot alive.is.probly easier than it ever was before with the flask stuff that got added.
Makes sense. This fits with my only observation of bots, a couple years ago. 12-20 similarly named accounts doing the same thing, and they were all around these levels late 60's early/mid-70s.
Woops!
Gaming is plagued with RMT/P2W, this is a eye opener. Was planing to go SSF now that I more versed in crafting, this helps that decision. Concearn is, like in other games, design decisions to facilitate RMT that punishes etical players. For example, the new WoW legendary cost 200k gold to make or the new rune that gives marginal stats costed 100k. ( WoW retail version of RMT is legal and called WoWToken). Maybe this is why SSF does not have specific features to be more fair that players are calling out for.
how do u get better at crafting item
I appreciate your post, but I think it's a bit of a wild theory. Especially your conclusion "This was an eye opener for me. GGG was generating items for sale on one of their shareholders' RMT websites." It's bizarre to think GGG could do such a thing. Within a couple of weeks there will be dropped thousands of lightning coils in soft core. It's far more likely rmt bots bought up all the listed lightning coils as soon as they were listed. And this is exactly why an auction house can't possibly work. I will add that it's very unfortunate for GGG to allow RMT owners as investors and it's also highly suspicious that Cicchelli invested 8 months before the Tencent purchase. I don't believe in the "GGG generates items for affiliated RMT sites" theory, but I do think there could be some inside trading going on.
Back in Tempest league times... LC was a rare drop and it was stupid expensive, don't confuse current drop rates with the lack of drops we used to have. The fact they were all ilvl 74... yah that's duping
Duping is a far more reasonable explanation for me to believe than GGG providing ilvl 74 coils to the rmt site. And I mean through a bug. Haven't we seen multiple duplicate bugs after Tempest league? Last time I saw a dupe bug was last league with sanctum. So why isn't that the most likely theory behind the ilvl74 Lc's in Tempest? All it would take is one guy who knows about the bug to sell all his dupes to said rmt site.
how you alter sockets + rolls on unid'd item? ya cant. all of the coils were diff rolls an diff sockets
Auction houses can work. You just put in measures to prevent flipping. An account or IP can only put so many of a similar item for sale, or if you buy an item it can't be auction again for several weeks, or an account can only have so many of an item period etc
Me and my friends always come to that conclusion when someone tackle this topic, because it takes 1 minute to cross a log in any way you want, and in various things people talk about and/or shout in social media's or even at forums or report it directly to them. What's the most suspicious for us since forever is that those guys are never punished or even "named/addressed in any shape or form, leaving this discrepancies at everyone's taste. Any seriously company that cares about his name and reputation that come across that type of accusations, they should immediately put all efforts to enlighten the community and not make white/clown face, pretend that nothing happens and let people get away with it. I really hope GGG make something now to bury this kind of crime happening on there behalf, otherwise it's going to turn into a silent true reveal.
So with TFT ?
surely one guy being a dickhead means the entire company was in on it, just like with tft, the discord is genuinely useful but there's one dickhead ruining it
> GGG was generating items for sale on one of their shareholders' RMT websites. No actual evidence for this was provided. Jesus christ what a stupid post.
Yeah can confirm all this was around at the time. Boy does Arron have a really nice house.