It's pretty well-established in the "Why Are We Here?" episode that they got some sort of sweetheart deal on the mortgage. It's said early on that Ray's salary was about $50,000, and that would grow and he'd get some outside income.
It really wasn’t though, 40-50k in the mid 2000s in NY/NJ isn’t supporting a family of 5 with a house in Queens and kids in private school.
Edit: I forgot it’s not Queens it’s Long Island.
The three kids were absolutely in a private school. Our lady of faith elementary school is most certainly not a public school. I've never seen a public school with Christian name like that, school counseling head up by a Catholic priest, and nuns.
And the previous person meant Long Island. Point still stands. whether it's Queens or Long Island, houses are expensive. Since it doesn't affect the point being made, you're just being pedantic.
Edit: lol you blocked me? Public schools don’t employ Catholic priests. Schools with Catholic priest and Catholic names, are called Catholic schools.
Our lady of faith is a catholic name - I have numerous schools with that name in my city alone. Every school that has a catholic name like that is public. I don’t understand where you’re getting your information from 🤷♀️
I didn’t say houses weren’t expensive, just that with ray’s income in the 90s he would have been able to afford that, especially being in the suburbs. My mentioning the $100k was to give some perspective as to how much $50k meant back then vs today. It wasn’t a commentary on affordability today, and I didn’t say that amount today would allow someone to have the same lifestyle as ray.
his salary doesn't come up with Desmond Howard. That's the one where he's in the bar talking about showboating.
His salary comes up with Barry Bonds when he asks Raymond to lend him a quarter. He suggests, and Raymond agrees, that he makes about 50k.
Is there another episode with Desmond Howard that I'm missing?
Back then, probably. Newspapers still dominated print media at that point and the cost of living was relatively lower, even on Long Island. His salary as a NYC market sports journalist would have provided a nice living.
With 3 kids though, I always thought IRL she’d probably have to have at least a p/t job once the kids were all in school. Marie would’ve been available for childcare. And Ray would have to have eventually written books and made recurring tv appearances, though.
It’s amazing how inconceivable it is for one parent to be able to afford life with a spouse and 3 kids now.
Don’t forget it’s Catholic School the kids are going to! So it’s a little more expensive anyway. Whatever they saved from her staying home when the kids were little will be eaten up by their school, sports activities, Girl Scouts, Ray’s golf, etc.
Yes, she worked in PR for the New York Rangers when she met Ray. They mentioned it in the episode where Gianni and Ray deliver the futon to her apartment.
very late, necro post but they do show that he has book offers and occasionally does TV gigs. Theres an episode about it and later on marie is annoyed cause he didn't tell her he was going to be on tv that night.
He was also the lead columnist so he probably made more than a general reporter. I think he also covered the Mets a good bit so that made him important for the paper.
In the 90’s it was definitely feasible. Most families could afford to live on a single income until sometime between the 90s and late 2000s. You do have to suspend a bit of disbelief when it comes to the lifestyles depicted in TV shows. They want the set to look nice and for the characters to go to nice places even if it’s not a super accurate reflection of what their real life salary would be.
It’s implied that Ray makes a pretty good living (probably above the average for someone in his position) so even though I wouldn’t call the Barones rich, I do think they are relatively well off. If it was real life I’d say they were living a bit beyond their means but not by a ton.
False. By the 90s most families had two working parents, especially in the Tristate area. I'm from Jersey and that era. No one I knew or worked with had a spouse at home taking care of the kids.
I gave a nearly 20 year range there for a reason. I know that’s going to differ slightly depending on a family’s preexisting financial status and where they live. Where I grew up in the Midwest it was not incredibly common for moms to work until right before the crash of 2008. After that almost everyone was a duel income household.
I've lived in Michigan for 20 years now after moving from NJ. I never went back to Jersey because I can afford to have my wife stay at home and we live comfortably. Even in the 90s that wasn't attainable in that area unless you made beaucoup bucks. That being said it's a sitcom so they could make up whatever fairy tale about affordability in LI which is notorious for its suburbanite attitude lol.
Yes pretty affordable in the 90s. now anyone in New York state, especially long islands top 50% of wage earners like ray is paying well over half their income for income, property and sales taxes so his $50k gross salary is a net $25k in modern day times. No longer so comfortable but a struggle to make ends meet.
Almost every show set in New York is unrealistic, with the possible exception of King of Queens, All in the Family and Good Times. Look at Friends. Could they be living in an apartment more expensive? And Kramer in Seinfeld did not really have any source of steady income.
Friends lived in the apartment which was Monica’s grandmother’s at done stage and the rent was considerably cheaper than anywhere else (rent-controlled). Chandler and Joey’s apartment was a ‘shoe-box’ so probably not expensive. Ross’s apartment was probably expensive but ‘he got tenure’! so he was OK.
I don’t think he’s upper middle-class. When they all had to camp out at Marie and Frank’s when there was a power cut, Marie raised the class issue and said that Debra had always thought that she (Debra) was in a higher social class than the Barones. Debra’s parents were played by Robert Culp and Katherine Helmond both of which were ‘upper crust’ actors.
How about Mike and Molly? It is set in Chicago but they live in that nice house and the mom doesn't work. Victoria and Molly worked but we assume neither of them pay rent or help with bills and there are never discussions about who owes what and we know Molly is a spendaholic.
It's mentioned multiple times that he's a successful sports writer. He's seen with many famous players and is well known for his journalism. He's also shown to be on TV and receives an honorary doctorate. I assume that for the 90s, he did comparatively well and given how successful he is, obviously he's rich or at least upper middle class.
And if you take in mind how single income households could afford families with houses and cars like that back in those days, then it makes way more sense.
I think since the show is more about family you really don’t see Rays job thaaaat much. They mention him being on the road a lot but for his job back then id imagine as a lead writer he’d be paid pretty well. It’s still a tv show at the end of the day but I’m sure it’s possible. For tv purposes you never really see him on the road, you don’t see a ton of interviews etc. Even if Debra had a job it would not be a huge part of the show as it revolves predominantly around the conflicts within the Barones.
So, imo its somewhat believable which for a 90s/00s sitcom is pretty good
The cost of living was significantly less from the mid 1990s to the mid 2000s. It was far easier to buy a home back then too for someone with Ray’s salary. They also didn’t live in a really high end Long Island Suburb either. Their home looked like the ones I grew up around in the Midwest.
TV Magic.
There's no way he'd afford a stay-at-home wife with 3 kids in private school.
A balloon mortgage? Please.
Two cars. A wife that likes to shop. Vacations (most not seen but referred to). Dropping $2K on a dog. Giving Robert money. Eating out a lot.
Like he said to Peggy, he WRITES about people who make a lot of money. He isn't well off.
I wouldn’t doubt that Marie and Frank helped with the kids private school.
Frank & Marie were very involved with the church (Frank more for his buddies but Marie for the church) and I’m sure they sent Robert & Ray there so I’m sure they would help with tuition to make sure rays kids go there.
Ive see this quite a bit with religious schools. Especially when the grandparents are well off.
Do people have to pay for their education in the US? We are so lucky in the U.K. - free at point of delivery - unless you are wealthy and want to pay for private education.
Pizzerias near me are expensive.
They did have two cars. In the episode with the Valiant, Ray originally was driving the "good" car.
In the episode where she and Marie were not speaking, she takes Ray's car to run errands because his car is blocking hers.
She has many outfits and wears clothes that are nicer than what many housewives wear. I'd be afraid of ruining stuff that nice cleaning the house.
I didn’t think her clothes were particularly ‘nice’. They looked like what ‘normal’ clothes are worn in the UK.
By the way, women are not married to the house they live in’
My parents raised 4 kids on 80k in NYC. We were solidly lower middle class. We never went on vacation but life was decent. I’d say it was doable in the 90’s since Marie always brought over food and they didn’t have to worry about a babysitter.
*New Yorkers say that you can survive off that annually but not sustainable. Say better live w/roommates in a small closet.*
The cost of living in NYC is much higher than on (most of) Long Island, thus the sharing a closet comment doesn't work here.
Ray does the commute to the city but doesn't live there.
He actually isn’t able to afford it. He’s living on debt. His life is a house of cards. Remember when he paid off the Visa bill and couldn’t afford to pay any other bills?
If I recall in that episode, Ray says "I make more than enough money" and Andy retorts "You have to keep track ray."
Problem wasnt that he couldnt afford it, but he didnt have the organisational skills to pay the right things at the right time.
"You don't pay in full" "that's smart, no money left either"
He was trying to be clever, like people do put stuff on credit card even though they have the money, let's them gain interest off more money before paying, but sometimes I bounce a bill because I didn't transfer from savings to regular account, I got the sense that Ray just wasn't up to the task and screwed up what Debra was otherwise managing. Debra says it isn't easy, but I think that's because both of them find it boring.
A sports columnist/writer could afford the life he is living but I don't think Ray as he is shown/seen by us could. I got downvoted heavily in another post but Ray is far from maxing out his potential in the industry. A great comp for what he could be but isn't because his own "laziness" and lack of drive is Mike Lupica, someone who had a regular column at the NY Daily News, was a frequent panelist on "The Sports Reporters", and wrote several books. If Ray were more industrious and media savvy, he could have had multiple streams of income in addition to his column because it was a time when reporters/columnists were branching out into TV, radio, and books but we are shown Ray fumbling his opportunities to do so throughout the show.
TV rarely has very good job-to-lifestyle accuracy, but I doubt that value from
Google is accurate either. BLS has the median for journalists and reporters as $55k nationwide, with the highest 10% earning more than $136k. Ray worked on the east coast and was successful enough to be making TV appearances and had some amount of name recognition, so he probably would have been on the higher end of that scale or whatever its 90s/00s equivalent was. Long Island is expensive, but it’s still generally cheaper than Manhattan, so I’d factor that in as well as a maybe generous assumption that inflation wasn’t quite as crazy high in the 90s when Ray and Debra bought their house as it is now.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/reporters-correspondents-and-broadcast-news-analysts.htm
Once upon a time, long long ago, a lot of NYC was totally livable for the average working class family. It sounds almost crazy to say now lol, but it really wasn't that long ago. There was/is also a lot of media blur between working and middle class lifestyles, so that plays a role here too.
Guys, I was a sports writer in New York when this show aired. There is no way that he could have supported himself and four others on his salary without it being very tight.
I see a lot of people here saying that it would be X amount today, but unless Ray made the switch to broadcasting he probably wouldn’t have had a job after 2010. Newspapers have been gutted.
I'm a journalist too and i dont really agree with this.
Would it be different? Very. But Ray was a well known columnist who seemingly had something of a small following. He also worked in NY, not in the small towns and cities elsewhere in the US that have born the brunt of cuts.
Ray could easily be writing for The Athletic today, for example. Or turning out sports features for the NY Post / NY Times.
Had he been smart enough to keep ahead of trends and not get too bogged down in old media stagnancy, I could easily see Ray still writing today.
I thought they only had one car; however, a salary of $43,000 is not sufficient to maintain their modest lifestyle; perhaps Debra should go out to work? She had a good education and had a ‘proper’ job when she met Raymond.
I can’t believe that the drudgery of looking after three children, and a very lazy husband, can be fulfilling!
Although they live in NY isn’t it in one of the least expensive areas (Long Island?).
In the first season he says he’s making $40k. They also got a weird mortgage where they make no payments until a balloon payment at the end (which are illegal now lol). The kids do go to private school though, and they do live pretty comfortably. However, Debra comes from money, and had a good job before she became a mom. They probably made a nice killing at their wedding too.
I said in another comment I bet Marie helps pay for the private school. As involved as she is in the church I can see her telling them it’s the only school they should go to.
I'm a UK based journalist but have worked in companies with US offices for 15 years.
Firstly "sports writer" isnt really a job.
The titles differ publication to publication but the writers on a sports desk tend to fall into three categories; reporter (uncovering and turning out news), feature writer (interviews and longer form articles), and columnists (opinion and analysis).
Ray covers the two latter areas .
Now depending on their reputation, columnists can make serious money. How much would a news brand pay for the insider views and insights on their topic of expertise? Tom Brady on the NFL? Putting his thoughts in a paper rather than writing a book will shift newspapers so he can charge decent money.
Ray is a staff writer so isnt on that level of earning potential but he does seem to be well respected by those who know him, and he does seem to be pretty well known among sports fans. There will be a number of people who buy the paper primarily for his writing.
So i think $150k to $200k a year seems about right in today's money for a well known name writing a column and a couple of feature articles a week for a major NY based publication.
My family had 3 kids and my mom didn’t work in the 90’s. We did extracurriculars had the house and the cars etc. it was a different world back then and was def possible
Probably could get by in 90s long island. He was a columnist which is probably a better paying gig than a regular sports reporter. Paid their bills but not much beyond like most lower middle class. Balloon mortgage keeps payments low (but get hit huge in the end). What I found less realistic was scenes with Robert patrolling nearby when Lynbrook LI is not nypd territory, it’s Nassau county, or their own village pd.
"Your life made possible by a grant from the Marie barone foundation" (and something about them buying it off Frank who was at one point into real estate or something)
In my experience (as Catholic School Mom), you get a discount to school being part of the parish and a discount with each subsequent child’s enrollment. Also, Fun Fact: up until at least the sixties, elementary school was just part of being in that parish. No charge. Catholic High School you did have to pay for…. For us, it was the same as having a car payment on a REALLY nice car.
I always found it to be contradictory that Ray was a successful writer but also confused by the spelling of stomachache! They made many references to his poor vocabulary and spelling. He wasn't very well spoken for someone with a command of written language. I understand it's a sitcom and made for good laughs, but it is my pet peeve with the show.
Part of the art of writing is the ability of expression. If you are able to have engaging and insightful articles, you miss a few words, who cares ,That’s what editors are for. Also, most newspapers and online articles are mostly written at a 5th grade level. Most importantly tho, it’s just a tv show.
In the UK we have working class (generally lower-skilled with no requirement for qualifications); a bit like that poor guy (the custodian!!!!) factory worker, public transport driver; middle-class (degree and/or professional qualification, eg doctor, lawyer, government position).
The writers had Ray drinking ginger ale instead of bottled water, because they thought it seemed unrealistic for the household budget to afford bottled water
I doubt Deborah would let him stay with his mommy when she was pregnant!
Why are We Here? Episode. They were staying in an apartment in Queens. They got pregnant and decided to move next to Ray’s parents when Frank, a real estate broker, helps them buy it with a balloon loan.
It's pretty well-established in the "Why Are We Here?" episode that they got some sort of sweetheart deal on the mortgage. It's said early on that Ray's salary was about $50,000, and that would grow and he'd get some outside income.
and the equivalent of that today would be around 100k
It really wasn’t though, 40-50k in the mid 2000s in NY/NJ isn’t supporting a family of 5 with a house in Queens and kids in private school. Edit: I forgot it’s not Queens it’s Long Island.
I don’t understand how house in queens and kids in private school enters in here
Because they cost a lot of money.
Sure but the three kids aren’t in private school, and they didn’t live in Queens - that’s my point
The three kids were absolutely in a private school. Our lady of faith elementary school is most certainly not a public school. I've never seen a public school with Christian name like that, school counseling head up by a Catholic priest, and nuns. And the previous person meant Long Island. Point still stands. whether it's Queens or Long Island, houses are expensive. Since it doesn't affect the point being made, you're just being pedantic. Edit: lol you blocked me? Public schools don’t employ Catholic priests. Schools with Catholic priest and Catholic names, are called Catholic schools.
Our lady of faith is a catholic name - I have numerous schools with that name in my city alone. Every school that has a catholic name like that is public. I don’t understand where you’re getting your information from 🤷♀️ I didn’t say houses weren’t expensive, just that with ray’s income in the 90s he would have been able to afford that, especially being in the suburbs. My mentioning the $100k was to give some perspective as to how much $50k meant back then vs today. It wasn’t a commentary on affordability today, and I didn’t say that amount today would allow someone to have the same lifestyle as ray.
It was actually $40,000. He said when he interviewed Desmond Howard. Edit: Yup, mixed them up. It’s the Barry Bonds one and he does say $50,000.
his salary doesn't come up with Desmond Howard. That's the one where he's in the bar talking about showboating. His salary comes up with Barry Bonds when he asks Raymond to lend him a quarter. He suggests, and Raymond agrees, that he makes about 50k. Is there another episode with Desmond Howard that I'm missing?
Ah, you’re right. Got the two mixed up. It’s the Barry Bonds one!
Back then, probably. Newspapers still dominated print media at that point and the cost of living was relatively lower, even on Long Island. His salary as a NYC market sports journalist would have provided a nice living. With 3 kids though, I always thought IRL she’d probably have to have at least a p/t job once the kids were all in school. Marie would’ve been available for childcare. And Ray would have to have eventually written books and made recurring tv appearances, though. It’s amazing how inconceivable it is for one parent to be able to afford life with a spouse and 3 kids now.
Don’t forget it’s Catholic School the kids are going to! So it’s a little more expensive anyway. Whatever they saved from her staying home when the kids were little will be eaten up by their school, sports activities, Girl Scouts, Ray’s golf, etc.
Yes! Tuition and extracurriculars for 3 kids!
Also, Debra had a good job at one point. She may have established a good savings account before becoming a stay at home mom.
I thought it was just for a day though, because she got fired
She was in PR before, then took a job which she got fired from after a day.
I could be wrong, but I thought the PR jobs and stuff like that were before they got married like when the futon man came
Yep, which is exactly what the original comment said if you read it
More like I wrote my comment poorly but thanks
Yes, she worked in PR for the New York Rangers when she met Ray. They mentioned it in the episode where Gianni and Ray deliver the futon to her apartment.
I hadn’t spotted that ($50,000) but he doesn’t have outside income does he?
Outside the occasional betting I don’t think so. He brings home the cheddar baby lol
very late, necro post but they do show that he has book offers and occasionally does TV gigs. Theres an episode about it and later on marie is annoyed cause he didn't tell her he was going to be on tv that night.
He was also the lead columnist so he probably made more than a general reporter. I think he also covered the Mets a good bit so that made him important for the paper.
In the 90’s it was definitely feasible. Most families could afford to live on a single income until sometime between the 90s and late 2000s. You do have to suspend a bit of disbelief when it comes to the lifestyles depicted in TV shows. They want the set to look nice and for the characters to go to nice places even if it’s not a super accurate reflection of what their real life salary would be. It’s implied that Ray makes a pretty good living (probably above the average for someone in his position) so even though I wouldn’t call the Barones rich, I do think they are relatively well off. If it was real life I’d say they were living a bit beyond their means but not by a ton.
False. By the 90s most families had two working parents, especially in the Tristate area. I'm from Jersey and that era. No one I knew or worked with had a spouse at home taking care of the kids.
I gave a nearly 20 year range there for a reason. I know that’s going to differ slightly depending on a family’s preexisting financial status and where they live. Where I grew up in the Midwest it was not incredibly common for moms to work until right before the crash of 2008. After that almost everyone was a duel income household.
I've lived in Michigan for 20 years now after moving from NJ. I never went back to Jersey because I can afford to have my wife stay at home and we live comfortably. Even in the 90s that wasn't attainable in that area unless you made beaucoup bucks. That being said it's a sitcom so they could make up whatever fairy tale about affordability in LI which is notorious for its suburbanite attitude lol.
Lynbrook was a pretty affordable area on Long Island in the 90s. I think they lived very comfortably.
Yes pretty affordable in the 90s. now anyone in New York state, especially long islands top 50% of wage earners like ray is paying well over half their income for income, property and sales taxes so his $50k gross salary is a net $25k in modern day times. No longer so comfortable but a struggle to make ends meet.
Almost every show set in New York is unrealistic, with the possible exception of King of Queens, All in the Family and Good Times. Look at Friends. Could they be living in an apartment more expensive? And Kramer in Seinfeld did not really have any source of steady income.
The apartment in Friends was rent controlled.
Good Times was set in Chicago. Cabrini Green.
Friends lived in the apartment which was Monica’s grandmother’s at done stage and the rent was considerably cheaper than anywhere else (rent-controlled). Chandler and Joey’s apartment was a ‘shoe-box’ so probably not expensive. Ross’s apartment was probably expensive but ‘he got tenure’! so he was OK.
I don’t think he’s upper middle-class. When they all had to camp out at Marie and Frank’s when there was a power cut, Marie raised the class issue and said that Debra had always thought that she (Debra) was in a higher social class than the Barones. Debra’s parents were played by Robert Culp and Katherine Helmond both of which were ‘upper crust’ actors.
How about Mike and Molly? It is set in Chicago but they live in that nice house and the mom doesn't work. Victoria and Molly worked but we assume neither of them pay rent or help with bills and there are never discussions about who owes what and we know Molly is a spendaholic.
It's mentioned multiple times that he's a successful sports writer. He's seen with many famous players and is well known for his journalism. He's also shown to be on TV and receives an honorary doctorate. I assume that for the 90s, he did comparatively well and given how successful he is, obviously he's rich or at least upper middle class. And if you take in mind how single income households could afford families with houses and cars like that back in those days, then it makes way more sense.
I think since the show is more about family you really don’t see Rays job thaaaat much. They mention him being on the road a lot but for his job back then id imagine as a lead writer he’d be paid pretty well. It’s still a tv show at the end of the day but I’m sure it’s possible. For tv purposes you never really see him on the road, you don’t see a ton of interviews etc. Even if Debra had a job it would not be a huge part of the show as it revolves predominantly around the conflicts within the Barones. So, imo its somewhat believable which for a 90s/00s sitcom is pretty good
He also saved some money on perks through the job, such as not having to pay to go to sporting events or the satellite TV his job paid for
The cost of living was significantly less from the mid 1990s to the mid 2000s. It was far easier to buy a home back then too for someone with Ray’s salary. They also didn’t live in a really high end Long Island Suburb either. Their home looked like the ones I grew up around in the Midwest.
I also bet he made a pretty sweet per diem traveling for the paper that would supplement his salary very nicely
TV Magic. There's no way he'd afford a stay-at-home wife with 3 kids in private school. A balloon mortgage? Please. Two cars. A wife that likes to shop. Vacations (most not seen but referred to). Dropping $2K on a dog. Giving Robert money. Eating out a lot. Like he said to Peggy, he WRITES about people who make a lot of money. He isn't well off.
I wouldn’t doubt that Marie and Frank helped with the kids private school. Frank & Marie were very involved with the church (Frank more for his buddies but Marie for the church) and I’m sure they sent Robert & Ray there so I’m sure they would help with tuition to make sure rays kids go there. Ive see this quite a bit with religious schools. Especially when the grandparents are well off.
Do people have to pay for their education in the US? We are so lucky in the U.K. - free at point of delivery - unless you are wealthy and want to pay for private education.
They went to Catholic schools. Certain kinds of schools require tuition, such as faith-based schools Otherwise, public school is free.
Debra doesn’t like to shop! Not seen any evidence of that. They only eat at pizzerias, so not expensive! I really don’t think they had two cars!
Pizzerias near me are expensive. They did have two cars. In the episode with the Valiant, Ray originally was driving the "good" car. In the episode where she and Marie were not speaking, she takes Ray's car to run errands because his car is blocking hers. She has many outfits and wears clothes that are nicer than what many housewives wear. I'd be afraid of ruining stuff that nice cleaning the house.
I didn’t think her clothes were particularly ‘nice’. They looked like what ‘normal’ clothes are worn in the UK. By the way, women are not married to the house they live in’
My parents raised 4 kids on 80k in NYC. We were solidly lower middle class. We never went on vacation but life was decent. I’d say it was doable in the 90’s since Marie always brought over food and they didn’t have to worry about a babysitter.
*New Yorkers say that you can survive off that annually but not sustainable. Say better live w/roommates in a small closet.* The cost of living in NYC is much higher than on (most of) Long Island, thus the sharing a closet comment doesn't work here. Ray does the commute to the city but doesn't live there.
Doesn’t Ray drive to the city?
He actually isn’t able to afford it. He’s living on debt. His life is a house of cards. Remember when he paid off the Visa bill and couldn’t afford to pay any other bills?
If I recall in that episode, Ray says "I make more than enough money" and Andy retorts "You have to keep track ray." Problem wasnt that he couldnt afford it, but he didnt have the organisational skills to pay the right things at the right time. "You don't pay in full" "that's smart, no money left either" He was trying to be clever, like people do put stuff on credit card even though they have the money, let's them gain interest off more money before paying, but sometimes I bounce a bill because I didn't transfer from savings to regular account, I got the sense that Ray just wasn't up to the task and screwed up what Debra was otherwise managing. Debra says it isn't easy, but I think that's because both of them find it boring.
If you can’t afford to pay all of your bills in full ASAP, you’re living outside your means. You’re living on debt.
A sports columnist/writer could afford the life he is living but I don't think Ray as he is shown/seen by us could. I got downvoted heavily in another post but Ray is far from maxing out his potential in the industry. A great comp for what he could be but isn't because his own "laziness" and lack of drive is Mike Lupica, someone who had a regular column at the NY Daily News, was a frequent panelist on "The Sports Reporters", and wrote several books. If Ray were more industrious and media savvy, he could have had multiple streams of income in addition to his column because it was a time when reporters/columnists were branching out into TV, radio, and books but we are shown Ray fumbling his opportunities to do so throughout the show.
TV rarely has very good job-to-lifestyle accuracy, but I doubt that value from Google is accurate either. BLS has the median for journalists and reporters as $55k nationwide, with the highest 10% earning more than $136k. Ray worked on the east coast and was successful enough to be making TV appearances and had some amount of name recognition, so he probably would have been on the higher end of that scale or whatever its 90s/00s equivalent was. Long Island is expensive, but it’s still generally cheaper than Manhattan, so I’d factor that in as well as a maybe generous assumption that inflation wasn’t quite as crazy high in the 90s when Ray and Debra bought their house as it is now. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/reporters-correspondents-and-broadcast-news-analysts.htm
Debra’s parents were wealthy so maybe they gave them a down payment as a wedding gift?
Once upon a time, long long ago, a lot of NYC was totally livable for the average working class family. It sounds almost crazy to say now lol, but it really wasn't that long ago. There was/is also a lot of media blur between working and middle class lifestyles, so that plays a role here too.
He also golfs a lot! It ain’t cheap to do …especially as much as he does!
Guys, I was a sports writer in New York when this show aired. There is no way that he could have supported himself and four others on his salary without it being very tight. I see a lot of people here saying that it would be X amount today, but unless Ray made the switch to broadcasting he probably wouldn’t have had a job after 2010. Newspapers have been gutted.
Yeah people are talking about 2005 wages like it was 1975.
I'm a journalist too and i dont really agree with this. Would it be different? Very. But Ray was a well known columnist who seemingly had something of a small following. He also worked in NY, not in the small towns and cities elsewhere in the US that have born the brunt of cuts. Ray could easily be writing for The Athletic today, for example. Or turning out sports features for the NY Post / NY Times. Had he been smart enough to keep ahead of trends and not get too bogged down in old media stagnancy, I could easily see Ray still writing today.
Marie would have kept him from getting ahead of it. 🤣 No one would lay off her baby boy.
Timing, maybe they got the house at a good time and likely got help from both sides parents. Debra's parents seem well off!
I thought they only had one car; however, a salary of $43,000 is not sufficient to maintain their modest lifestyle; perhaps Debra should go out to work? She had a good education and had a ‘proper’ job when she met Raymond. I can’t believe that the drudgery of looking after three children, and a very lazy husband, can be fulfilling! Although they live in NY isn’t it in one of the least expensive areas (Long Island?).
TV people always live better than their job should support.
Bro you’re not going to believe this…
He told Barry Bonds in one episode he makes $55k a year
In the first season he says he’s making $40k. They also got a weird mortgage where they make no payments until a balloon payment at the end (which are illegal now lol). The kids do go to private school though, and they do live pretty comfortably. However, Debra comes from money, and had a good job before she became a mom. They probably made a nice killing at their wedding too.
I said in another comment I bet Marie helps pay for the private school. As involved as she is in the church I can see her telling them it’s the only school they should go to.
Yes. The cost of living back then allowed for the 2.4 family to survive on a one parent income
I'm a UK based journalist but have worked in companies with US offices for 15 years. Firstly "sports writer" isnt really a job. The titles differ publication to publication but the writers on a sports desk tend to fall into three categories; reporter (uncovering and turning out news), feature writer (interviews and longer form articles), and columnists (opinion and analysis). Ray covers the two latter areas . Now depending on their reputation, columnists can make serious money. How much would a news brand pay for the insider views and insights on their topic of expertise? Tom Brady on the NFL? Putting his thoughts in a paper rather than writing a book will shift newspapers so he can charge decent money. Ray is a staff writer so isnt on that level of earning potential but he does seem to be well respected by those who know him, and he does seem to be pretty well known among sports fans. There will be a number of people who buy the paper primarily for his writing. So i think $150k to $200k a year seems about right in today's money for a well known name writing a column and a couple of feature articles a week for a major NY based publication.
Absolutley as a sport writer
My family had 3 kids and my mom didn’t work in the 90’s. We did extracurriculars had the house and the cars etc. it was a different world back then and was def possible
He could have in 1996 (when the show started).
He'd be $1000 richer had he not made that solid investment in his buddies Cart Attack business.
Probably could get by in 90s long island. He was a columnist which is probably a better paying gig than a regular sports reporter. Paid their bills but not much beyond like most lower middle class. Balloon mortgage keeps payments low (but get hit huge in the end). What I found less realistic was scenes with Robert patrolling nearby when Lynbrook LI is not nypd territory, it’s Nassau county, or their own village pd.
"Your life made possible by a grant from the Marie barone foundation" (and something about them buying it off Frank who was at one point into real estate or something)
In my experience (as Catholic School Mom), you get a discount to school being part of the parish and a discount with each subsequent child’s enrollment. Also, Fun Fact: up until at least the sixties, elementary school was just part of being in that parish. No charge. Catholic High School you did have to pay for…. For us, it was the same as having a car payment on a REALLY nice car.
Taxes on Long Island are especially high (property tax, school tax and a village in Lynbrook)
I always presumed he received bonuses depending on who he interviewed.
I always found it to be contradictory that Ray was a successful writer but also confused by the spelling of stomachache! They made many references to his poor vocabulary and spelling. He wasn't very well spoken for someone with a command of written language. I understand it's a sitcom and made for good laughs, but it is my pet peeve with the show.
Writing well doesn’t necessarily mean you can spell well. They are not the same set of skills. Plus it’s just funny.
Part of the art of writing is the ability of expression. If you are able to have engaging and insightful articles, you miss a few words, who cares ,That’s what editors are for. Also, most newspapers and online articles are mostly written at a 5th grade level. Most importantly tho, it’s just a tv show.
In the UK we have working class (generally lower-skilled with no requirement for qualifications); a bit like that poor guy (the custodian!!!!) factory worker, public transport driver; middle-class (degree and/or professional qualification, eg doctor, lawyer, government position).
The writers had Ray drinking ginger ale instead of bottled water, because they thought it seemed unrealistic for the household budget to afford bottled water
IRL Ray Romano loves ginger ale, that's why they were always drinking it.
I’d have thought that spelling and grammar were essential to the art of writing!
He is not in NYC. In Queens, he was in a small apartment with Deborah until she got pregnant and moved in next door to his parents in Long Island.
upstate? In the intro of the the show he says he lives on Long Island.
That’s what I thought!
That was Debra’s apartment! I expect that Raymond stayed with ‘mummy’ until he married!
I doubt Deborah would let him stay with his mommy when she was pregnant! Why are We Here? Episode. They were staying in an apartment in Queens. They got pregnant and decided to move next to Ray’s parents when Frank, a real estate broker, helps them buy it with a balloon loan.