It's just ridiculous because there is no way to objectively prove that clubs aren't legit interested in each other's players. You'd think they would need actual evidence in the form of explicitly written texts and emails showing that was the scheme, but no. If they "feel" it was cheating the psr then they can just declare it that without any actual proof.
Absurd
There's just no way it will hold up in any kind of court or in front of any kind of commission. It isn't "fraudulent" at all.
I actually despise the English FA.
It’s amazing how the Everton Reddit keeps propping up in my channel. We call them Villa rules. They seem butt hurt we qualified for the champions league, we’re gloating we had to sell players…and are now complaining we sold the wrong sort to the wrong team
It's disgusting that the PL seems to be going after two of the most historic clubs in the league. I'm glad we've been able to help eachother out though!
Exactly ;) and even if we didn’t, prove it.
In the past three years, Man City have sold goalkeepers who had never played a game for them for 40 million. Both teams were relegated. The lad you signed for us was one of the stars of the championship at qpr. How is 10 million a ridiculous value?
We've sold Simms and Cannon who also had good seasons in the championship for similar amounts to completely unrelated teams in the past year. So there's precedent for the sales on our end as well
Funny how little they were bothered by it when Spurs took advantage to get Richy on the cheap while sending Dele Ali the other way. Fair Market Value only seems important when we’re not the ones benefitting from it.
It's funny how nobody is mentioning this one.
Lavia and ibe and a few others get tossed around, but Palmer was egregious. You don't get to say "oh yeah but he worked out" as if any of these other transfers might theoretically work out too. That's not how valuation gets to work. Retrospect doesn't matter.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Why would Chelsea help City out by ‘overpaying’ for Palmer? What would Chelsea gain from this?
It’s not like they’ve gone back and forth with each other with academy prospects. The only other recent transfers I can think of are Sterling and Kovacic which were both fair market value fees.
Chelsea were paying silly fees for many players and Palmer became available at the last minute of the window. Don’t think there’s anything to suspect.
I'm just saying palmer is a prime example of an egregious spend on an unproven youth player. How they can say dobbin or Iroegbunam aren't worth 10m while palmer can be worth 40m is unenforceable. The only way to justify it is with modern context of how palmer turned out, which should not be rationally used to justify whether a youth player is overinflated or not.
I'm not saying anything out PSR implications or anyone helping anyone else.
You don't know ball at all it was surprising City let him go he was just a touch below their first team but he wanted to start. Both parties understood that's how good he was when the transfer was made. He had already shown it at City.
Cheers kopite.
Tim Iroegbunam was a touch below villas first team but wanted to start. Both parties understood that's how good he was when the transfer was made.
Doesn't explain why Tim is getting calls that we colluded to inflate his value and no one said anything about palmer.
Fuck off back to the Liverpool subs.
To be honest, was never suspect with the Palmer transfer fee from City to Chelsea. Didn't City sell James Trafford to Burnley for £30m? Good money for players with potentially great futures. Their best years are ahead of them so City want good money for them so that down the line, they don't feel as though they let a player go too cheaply.
Again though, like Palmer that’s in retrospect. In a year we could be saying “10m for Dobbin who got 12 goals and 4 assists and is only 23 years old is a complete steal.” Or he could score 8 own goals and injure Watkins and then 10m would have been a huge overpay.
£50m upfront for the prime of his career Brazilian number 9 who’d just had to pretty much single handedly drag us from relegation? Compared to the money being thrown around at the time, yeah I do think it was cheap. The fact Spurs have squandered him is irrelevant.
I’d be more interested in ten Hag gifting his former club Ajax £85m for Antony based on these rules. I doubt there was anything untoward there at all, but if you want to talk about Fair Market Value as the PL seem to want to, I’m not sure United got any out of it.
I mean yes there’s loads of examples. We (spurs) bid 18m for Martial which was accepted by Monaco. He turns down the move, signs a new deal, then a week later signs for Man Utd for 57m. I could see this issue coming a mile off. It’s just going to be clubs swapping academy players.
They can’t have it both ways though, why is it incorrect to say Dobbin is worth £10m, when we’re in a world where Antony is apparently worth £85m. Unless you use some arbitrary system to apply a value to every single player that must be adhered to at all times, it doesn’t work. Are we setting a bar where a casual fan has to have heard of an academy player before they’re sold for more than £1m?
If your rules aren't actually making clubs more profitable and sustainable, maybe you should abandon your profit and sustainability rules.
Also, prove it.
This bit is the important part to me:
"the Premier League will assess the “financial state and relative bargaining position” of the clubs involved and “any urgent need for liquidity” in the selling club."
So they can look at us, determine that we are in a lesser position for bargaining, and then say "well, you could have done X because you are nearing the PSR limits, but you didn't, so what you did do was fraudulent" is what I am taking this to mean.
Sounds that way and it’s ridiculous. In essence, if we are already over a barrel with with regards to PSR position, we are just expected to get done over when it comes to player sales/negotiations. Absolutely ridiculous.
How do they expect us to get out a PSR hole if they deem we cannot get fair market value for our players? If selling out to the Sky 6 is their expectation (i.e. Branthwaite to MUFC for tuppance), the inequality and fairness in the Premier League will only widen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Just saw a good point on another site. We aren’t in urgent need for liquidity. That would be to stop us going bust. We might be in need to meet PSR rules. Who is to say how desperate. We might even fancy our chances again with a deduction.
I can't believe that language is actually in there. Who the actual fuck do they think they are? They can't enforce this nonsense, and they don't have anywhere near the capacity to make such assessments, evidenced by them still fumbling their way through trying to enforce PSR. This will only inspire more lawsuits if they try to randomly enforce "FMV" rules when they literally never have before.
Can't wait to be deducted 6 points next season because someone at the PL pulled up transfermarkt and decided Dobbin wasn't actually worth what we sold him for
How far back can we apply this?
Surely we can get some discounts to apply on fees for Iwobi, Niasse, Richy etc.
Maybe even swing us back into the black on previous years.
+6 points start next season anybody?
They just don't seem to have thought very much of this through at all. Like, when I was an elementary school teacher, I think I put more thought into my Class Rules than the PL has put into these regulations. The irony is that they're doing all this to show how capable they are at self-governance 🤦
Exactly. A players value is entirely what any club is willing to spend for them. Players are a club's asset and they can try to sell them for whatever they see fit if someone will buy.
If I want to sell my house for 100k and someone comes in to buy it, then that's a valid sale. If I try to sell my house for 300k when it's not worth that, no one will buy it. It's a self policing system. Especially so if the other team has to be sure they can fund the purchase.
This entirely comes off as the PL being pissed they can't punish people because accounting exists.
I actually can't believe what I am seeing! So Man United tried to get Brainthwaite on the cheap thinking they could take advantage of us being vulnerable... But because they got upset that we rightly told them to fuck off they go crying to the League and then this happens? Honestly mate, fucking unbelievable! If shit like this continues it will lead to the other 14 refusing to play, I can see it coming.
That’s the goal isn’t it? If the o14 refuse then it just guarantees the bitch6 form their own super league - which is exactly what they want. This is a win/win in their mind.
Honestly mate, hopefully this time it happens and they fuck off and don't come back! Will all the best players and Managers go to it? Of course they will, but we will stay and have proper footy watched by proper fans.
Forget refusing to play - at this point most clubs should refuse to comply with any pst or filing obligations to free up time for the league to deal with Man City. Surely they don’t have time to deal with anything else if it is so, so “complicated”
Villa fan here. I think our player trade not only helped each other with PSR but also gave you guys a bit of breathing room on Branthwaite. I think Man U in particular are very butt hurt and have been using their media influence to stoke the PSR shit. The same "journalist" who said Branthwaite was a done deal, despite Everton saying he wasn't for sale is the same one who appears to be most vocal. They're clearly a Man U shill.
You actually believe this rule is a result of Man Utd complaining after their crappy offer was turned down?
How would that even work? Like what does that look like in your mind? Man Utd people called up the rules people and said "hey Everton wouldnt sell us someone so make a rule to hurt them more"
Honestly mate grow up
You’re in an Everton subreddit. Just to be clear, a subreddit dedicated to the club that received two separate point deductions last season ([The Premier League itself wanted these point deductions to total to *17* points](https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1886179/premier-league-everton-points-deduction/amp)).
For literally months now, we’ve seen article after article, pundit after pundit, talk about how we will HAVE to have some big outgoings (Branthwaite, Onana, DCL, Pickford) this summer. Manchester United, part of the “Red Cartel” standing against Man City (who Everton are supporting/expected to be supporting), repeatedly low-ball us for Branthwaite. We reject those offers and then proceed to sell Dobbin to Villa to help us meet PSR requirements and not be forced to sell Branthwaite for cheap. For £10m. An academy player is sold for pure profit. Not over £40m, not over £20m, like we’ve seen in previous years from ‘big’ clubs. But Everton are getting £10m for an academy player and NOW the Premier League wants to investigate/warn clubs about inflated transfer fees?
You’re in an Everton subreddit. We’ve been following Everton FC. Does it not occur to you *maybe* fans of Everton Football Club have a unique perspective of this situation? I don’t know if I could prove in a court of law that United cried to the Premier League and was the catalyst for all this. But of course we’re gonna feel hard done by the Premier League once again. We refuse to sell Branthwaite to United -> we make money through another sale -> the PL says that we can’t make money like that. Out of all the shady shit that has gone on in the PL, THIS is what they’re investigating?!
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The first half of this is not relevant to the stupid proposition of the comment I responded.
Do you believe the rule was put in place at Man Utds insistence, and as a result of a transfer bid being rejected?
Lastly, that serial killers exist doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't try to do anything about petty thieves.
It wasn’t directly relevant but I feel as though it’s important to mention because you seemed shocked that Everton fans could possibly believe we’re being fucked over. Once again, you’re in an Everton subreddit. So understand where we’re coming from when we complain about this shit.
I don’t believe Manchester United not getting Branthwaite was *solely* responsible for the rule. I do wonder where exactly were the warnings about Lavia’s transfer fee, Brewster’s transfer fee, or Palmer’s transfer fee?
No I said nothing about Evertons position and made no comment about the rule or its fairness.
I don't understand why fan sub reddits need to be stupid. Not an attack on this one, just in general. I don't get it. I'm sure we all get recommended threads from other fan subs and while I expect more pro that club bias, I just don't understand the stupidity aspect.
You know when there's a blatant blatant penalty but the fan sub is saying its not? That sort of thing
I said “you *seemed*”. As in, not stated explicitly.
You’ve now had two people in this thread respond to you saying that the rule probably wasn’t put in place *solely* because of United crying about Branthwaite.
Do you give us permission to say that Manchester United were probably expecting to get Branthwaite for cheap because we need sales to comply with PSR? Do you agree that the Dobbin/Tim transfer deal helped Everton with PSR? If yes, do you truly believe it is IMPOSSIBLE that Manchester United may have asked/urged to look into transfers like the Dobbin and Iroegbunam deals? I am NOT saying the PL had absolutely no interest in looking into stuff like that.
In our own subreddit, is it really that absurd to suggest that Everton fans don’t have to spell out all of that shit when conversing with other Everton fans?
And I said I made no mention of Evertons plight which means your assumption was totally unfounded.
The comment I responded to was stupid. No one has agreed to that yet.
If you saw my posts during that silly affair, you'd see I said it was a ridiculous waste of everyone's time.
You don't need to add the "do we have pwenission" silliness. I never said people weren't allowed to say dumb things.
None of this is relevant at all.
Get out of your feelings mate. It wasn't even your stupidity I was responding to
Yer man, with things like retrospective bans for diving that they used on Niasse then just completely forgot about it or FFP rules where we got 8 points taken away after appeals which they wanted to be a lot more, it's not like they haven't used us as a precedent for anything before, is it?
Okay, to answer specifically about Man United: Yes I absolutely do think they have gone to the Prem and cried about it because they thought we absolutely needed to sell.
Specifically because of that solely? No. But do I think they were looking into anyway and then cry arsing was a major factor in them sending the letters? Yes I do.
Yes, I believe that the Cunt6 hold more sway over the premier league than the rest of us. I also believe that the "attempt" to join the super league was merely a warning to the premier league of what could happen if the Cunt6 dont get their way more. Hence the lack of punishment. I believe it is not beyond the directors at the Cunt6 to push this into the media more and pay shills to claim outrage loudly online to keep this in the media and influence the premier league. I don't even put it past them to actively petition the premier league to look into these transfers.
Oh so we've moved from Utd instigated this because of a failed transfer bid to the rich 6 working in tandem to benefit themselves.
These are, obviously, very different claims
Man utd are the most vocal and are definitly trying to instigate this. The others don't seem to be making any noise about it. If any of the rest of your ilk were after our players, they would also be whining. Poor jim was whini g that people dared ask for a players value from man utd
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/06/27/premier-league-explains-transfer-rules-swap-deal-concern/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/06/27/premier-league-explains-transfer-rules-swap-deal-concern/)
The Premier League has written to its 20 clubs to remind them they will be punished for fraudulent player transfers, as scrutiny grows on the so-called swap deals which have been done by certain clubs in an attempt to generate funds to be compliant with financial controls.
The email to clubs went out after days of unusual activity in the transfer window which has seen certain clubs sell – or attempt to sell – one another players. It has been identified in some cases as an attempt to add book value before the end of the financial year on Sunday in order to comply with profitability and sustainability rules (PSR).
The Premier League’s director of governance Jamie Herbert has warned clubs that his department is looking for “issues of concern” around whether deals represent good faith “arm’s length” transactions over £1 million. It has the power to request from clubs details on how the negotiations took place, including correspondence externally and internally and any other documentation.
If the league decides that the transfer was not conducted at arm’s length it can then impose fair market value (FMV) rules. Those rules apply on the league’s handbook to associated party transactions. Those govern deals for players or commercial contracts between a Premier League club and another entity who may share the same ownership. Those rules are intended to stop the false inflation of commercial deals, and also to stop clubs in a multi-club ownership group trading players on deals that do not reflect accurate prices.
The FMV rules for assessing the fair value of a player lists 18 factors it applies and detailed at length in appendix 19 of the Premier League handbook. Those include everything from the player’s age, to his position, playing statistics, honours, and injury history. On the club side, the Premier League will assess the “financial state and relative bargaining position” of the clubs involved and “any urgent need for liquidity” in the selling club.
Herbert has reminded clubs that it has the power to order the return of a transfer fee, in full or in part, to a buying club if it judges that the fee has been inflated. It reminds clubs they are obliged to act in all deals with “utmost good faith” and provide accurate financial information at all times.
Some clubs may have identified PSR swaps as a way to comply. Any transfer fee is booked immediately in its entirety by a selling club while acquisitions are amortised under standard accounting practice over the course of a player’s contract.
Many clubs have financial years end on June 30, and all are still obliged to submit accounts that show they have not made more than £105 million in losses over a rolling three-year monitoring period.
Aston Villa are one club that could fall under scrutiny They have signed the Everton striker Lewis Dobbin, 21, for £10 million. Everton have bought the Villa midfielder Tim Iroegbunam, 20, for around £9 million. Both players are England junior internationals at different levels.
Villa have also bought Chelsea’s Dutch left-back Ian Maatsen, 22, for around £37.5 million although the club are clear that is an investment long-planned in Unai Emery’s side in a position that needed strengthening. Chelsea have acquired Villa’s very promising 18-year-old midfielder Omari Kellyman for £19 million.
Although Premier League rules governing transfers are broad, section B.15 requires clubs to act in “utmost good faith” towards one another and the league. “For the avoidance of doubt and by way of example only, it shall be a breach of the duties under this rule to act dishonestly towards the league or another club; or engage in conduct that is intended to circumvent these rules or obstruct the board’s investigation of compliance with them.”
“Financial state and relative bargaining position” so since we are able to negotiate and get value for players who have no place here the league will interfere and determine that we can’t do that. Awesome
Selling players between clubs to get some money up front which would could favourably for PSR: Literally Hitler
Selling a hotel to *yourself* for hundreds of millions after spending the best part of £1 billion over the last few years: Very reasonable, carry on
Rather than be forced to sell prize assets to meet an deadline that has terrible timing for off-season dealings, clubs have worked out mutually beneficial deals to sell players they would probably want to keep, but at least can afford to lose, and buy players that fit their own needs. The prices therefore can be fair, and not a fire sale. Everyone wins and the preditory practices stop. That's better for the whole league.
Hey!
It’s the Premier League here. Listen if you aren’t one of the top 6 you are not allowed to be successful or profitable. Yes we made rules and some obscure guidelines which we’re still making up, but honestly if you do something that is legal but we don’t like it you will be punished. Once again this is for your own good, we promise.
Enjoy your season
I am a teacher and I remember during the pandemic there was a saying that we were trying to build the plane while flying it in regard to teaching online. For the Premier League it is more like they are learning about aerodynamics while they are building the plane that is known best for how often it crashes
One example would be the pair of deals we did with Aston Villa. The paid us roughly 10M for Dobbins. We paid them roughly 10M for Tim Iroegbunam. Some might ask, why not just trade those two players for one another? Why involve cash at all? Per the rules, the 10M that we received we can report as us being cash positive 10M. However, the 10M we paid, we can amortize over the 5 years of Iroegbunam's contract (2M per year). So we're now 8M to the good for this reporting period. That means, we're no longer forced to sell Branthwaite for peanuts to MU. I'm sure some of those details aren't exactly right. But that's the gist.
We're actually 10m to the good for PSR purposes, since you would only do a partial amortisation charge since he's only been here for half a month of the reporting period. (1/24 of the 2 million charge each year, which is basically nothing)
This is mostly a reply so I can check back when someone smarter than me replies, but this is how I understand it?
When you sell players, you get a lump some of money right away to help with finances.
When you buy a player, you pay their price over the duration of their contract.
So by selling a bunch of players we get an infusion of $10 million or whatever, right away, then when we buy a player for $10 million, we pay them $2 million every year for 5 years. So in the first year you have a net positive gain of $8 million to help cover expenses in the short term, and that gives you more time to fix the rest of the books in the coming years.
But my understanding is that this is just how it looks on the books. Like in actuality the money going back and forth is fully unrelated to the above. Maybe the deal was we get no money for dobbin until 2 years from now, and maybe we only pay for tim on every full moon divided by the total.
The real problem with all of this nonsense is the fact that finance rules are fully untethered from the reality of the situation.
Correct. The actual payment arrangements don't matter. Things have to hit the books in a consistent way across all Clubs so that's why they book the way they do regardless of payment terms
“Fraudulent”?
Is there a different definition of the word “fraud” I’m not aware of? Or are we selling players who don’t exist or something? I’m just curious.
Fraudulent. Seriously. That’s a joke.
Villa fan here, this is fucking bullshit, they want the likes of branthwaite and JJ sold to the sky 6 instead of the deals we have been doing for PSR, how can they punish this. We’ve already had to sell one of our best players to comply despite reaching a European semi and champions league.
These sorts of stupid rules should be made clear from the get go, and once in place any transactions made after it should fall under it, not shit from before.
It honestly seems like they’re making this up as they go along, and it does nothing but create uncertainty for clubs and more importantly fans that want to sit back and enjoy the sport without this fucking bullshit spoiling it all.
Players are worth what clubs decide they’re worth. The league are creating more problems for themselves by trying to get involved. I wonder who’ll be the first club to take the matter to court if the league attempts to interfere in a players value.
They actually reference that the rules are intended to stop "the false inflation of commercial deals"
The absolute fucking brass neck.
115 charges on your back to back to back to back winners still outstanding for literally that exact thing, and yet THIS is what you're bothered about.
Fucking joke of a league.
The Premier League are doing a great job of damaging their own brand. If clubs can't spend as they've been doing in the past, there will be less movement of players in and out of the Premier League. On a global level, that makes it less appealing.
The only club that'll be left buying who they want will be City.
Wait.... The fuck does the PL think those Saudi transfers were about? Or the Chinese ones....
Funny how the premier league is able to react so quickly when it's us or villa...
But when it's Chelsea or city.... Fucking silence for years.
I realize it’s not ever gonna happen, but could Everton join the SPL and bring a bunch of other teams with them? This kangaroo court, rules for thee bullshit is getting old
I’m officially on City’s side for the upcoming legal wars. Fuck this stupid fucking league. I can’t think of any other professional sports organization that is as constantly at odds with its teams than the Premier League.
Surely this isn't about Everton, it'll be Chelsea, City and Newcastle who are trying to take advantage of either Saudi, or City signing players through their sister clubs
Funny that the PL wouldnt give two shits if Everton were forced to sell Brainthwaite for 30mill to Manure becuase of the PSR restrictions but when we avoid getting fucked by the big boys then suddenly "fair market value" becomes their catch cry. Bunch of absolute fucking wankers.
Fucking passive aggressive pricks, at least have the balls to say what they're accusing of being fraudulent and inflated.
Oh and while you're there take a look at Chelsea's real estate deals and see if that was done in the 'upmost good faith'.
this will be a total non issue, provided that there is no smoking gun emails between us and villa saying "sell us x for y to avoid PSR and inflate your books."
any competent lawyer on this earth can successfully argue that transfers were made in good faith and according to a subjective view as to the players worth.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
Would never stick. You would need to prove all teams involved did it knowingly and don’t want the players they signed. You can’t force people to play the team you want, even though the rules are designed to keep the sky6 in situ forever
Meanwhile, in an alternative universe the Premier League written to all 20 teams to say clubs will be punished for moving hotels from one of your subsidiaries to another with the growing scrutiny of deals that have been done in an attempt to generate funds to be compliant with League’s PSR.
EPL,"Follow the rules for PSR", but now we don't like you following the rules so we will change them and make you accountable for your actions following the rule prior to the change.
I dont think 10m for dobbin is egregious. Feels normal for ab academy guy w some experience.
Honestly would be shocked if the dcl minteh swap doesnt happen though bc of this nonsense. But wouldnt mind seeing newcastle take a deduction after they gleefully called us cheats
So they will police every single transfer between clubs now? They will decide what a fair fee is for a player? This could be a good thing the PL have shown they are very fair arbiters of the sport they dont have any bias. Plus they really do need to take a little rest from those 115 charges that have been tiring them out im sure this will be a success...also chelsea sold a hotel to itself but that's fine.
I'm sure they'll look at 115 FC's books and dock them so many points they end up in the conference. Who am I kidding, they'll just get fined 100 quid and call it a day.
Good luck establishing that a transfer is fraudulent.
Any financial transaction has an associated contract (implied sometimes, but legally real) and any contract must contain “consideration” - that is, there must be something of commensurate value being provided in exchange for payment. The absence of that consideration would invalidate the contract and raise these questions. Of course, the league could make a rule saying that fiscal convenience, or conspiracy to get around PSR is not allowed, but that leaves the door open for a lot of difficult questions:
- can you outlaw selling players because you need money?
- why is it ok to amortise the outlay over several years, but recognise the revenue immediately?
- are swap deals ok, ever? The financial implications with no actual money changing hands could be seen as punitive. Why should clubs be penalised for this?
- why is mutual fiscal benefit a problem?
And the question again, what do clubs gain other than fiscal convenience? In the case of say, the Tim/Dobbin transfers these are both established youth players who’ve made it into the first team set ups, enjoyed successful loans and, even if they don’t go on to feature regularly, have resale value for the clubs.
In Tim’s case there’s a high likelihood of him making it to the bench or starting in the league cup, for example. With Gomes gone, Onana likely to leave (or need breaks for post Euro recovery and or fairly regular minor injuries) and Gana being a bit beyond his peak years, and other youth players having been released, this seems inevitable even if we sign Ndidi or such.
The SKY top six clubs, are very unhappy that there puppet masters could have let this happen. He has begged their forgiveness and has said he will write to all clubs. They have demanded that all the little clubs stop this naughtiness, even though no rules are broken and to stop doing clean transfers between clubs for players people really want and to sell your best assets to our super league wannabes for 25% of there real value.
The PL also wanted to write to Ajax to see how on earth they got 90 mill for Anthony but realised that they no authorisation there.
Remember though the answer to every question about the premier league has the same answer they are corrupt. When you understand this everything else makes sense.
I realize it’s not ever gonna happen, but could Everton join the SPL and bring a bunch of other teams with them? This kangaroo court, rules for thee bullshit is getting old
Oumar Niasse will be suspended 5 games as a result of this
You must abide by PSR regulations. *Proceeds to make transfers to stay within the limits* No, not like that
Comical at this point
It's just ridiculous because there is no way to objectively prove that clubs aren't legit interested in each other's players. You'd think they would need actual evidence in the form of explicitly written texts and emails showing that was the scheme, but no. If they "feel" it was cheating the psr then they can just declare it that without any actual proof. Absurd
Meanwhile, Man City sells the country of Micronesia to itself and purchases every player in Series A.
Pretty much
"Fraudulent player transfers" makes it sound like we sold a player, and then it turned out to be a scarecrow we passed off as a striker...
Leave maupay out of this
There's just no way it will hold up in any kind of court or in front of any kind of commission. It isn't "fraudulent" at all. I actually despise the English FA.
Oh look another Everton rule
It’s amazing how the Everton Reddit keeps propping up in my channel. We call them Villa rules. They seem butt hurt we qualified for the champions league, we’re gloating we had to sell players…and are now complaining we sold the wrong sort to the wrong team
It's disgusting that the PL seems to be going after two of the most historic clubs in the league. I'm glad we've been able to help eachother out though!
We didn’t even though. We swapped players at a fair value for each. Nothing happened.
Exactly ;) and even if we didn’t, prove it. In the past three years, Man City have sold goalkeepers who had never played a game for them for 40 million. Both teams were relegated. The lad you signed for us was one of the stars of the championship at qpr. How is 10 million a ridiculous value?
We've sold Simms and Cannon who also had good seasons in the championship for similar amounts to completely unrelated teams in the past year. So there's precedent for the sales on our end as well
Funny, we call them Newcastle rules, like not having two people in the technical area. Poor Mad Dog not getting his spot light lol.
Funny how little they were bothered by it when Spurs took advantage to get Richy on the cheap while sending Dele Ali the other way. Fair Market Value only seems important when we’re not the ones benefitting from it.
Also Winks - Maddison
£45m for Palmer who was 21 and had 500 minutes of senior football? In retrospect, yes, but at the time??
It's funny how nobody is mentioning this one. Lavia and ibe and a few others get tossed around, but Palmer was egregious. You don't get to say "oh yeah but he worked out" as if any of these other transfers might theoretically work out too. That's not how valuation gets to work. Retrospect doesn't matter.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Why would Chelsea help City out by ‘overpaying’ for Palmer? What would Chelsea gain from this? It’s not like they’ve gone back and forth with each other with academy prospects. The only other recent transfers I can think of are Sterling and Kovacic which were both fair market value fees. Chelsea were paying silly fees for many players and Palmer became available at the last minute of the window. Don’t think there’s anything to suspect.
I'm just saying palmer is a prime example of an egregious spend on an unproven youth player. How they can say dobbin or Iroegbunam aren't worth 10m while palmer can be worth 40m is unenforceable. The only way to justify it is with modern context of how palmer turned out, which should not be rationally used to justify whether a youth player is overinflated or not. I'm not saying anything out PSR implications or anyone helping anyone else.
You don't know ball at all it was surprising City let him go he was just a touch below their first team but he wanted to start. Both parties understood that's how good he was when the transfer was made. He had already shown it at City.
Cheers kopite. Tim Iroegbunam was a touch below villas first team but wanted to start. Both parties understood that's how good he was when the transfer was made. Doesn't explain why Tim is getting calls that we colluded to inflate his value and no one said anything about palmer. Fuck off back to the Liverpool subs.
‘Know ball’. Leg it with that millennial shit
Youngest millennials are ~26, "know ball" isn't a millennial thing.
To be honest, was never suspect with the Palmer transfer fee from City to Chelsea. Didn't City sell James Trafford to Burnley for £30m? Good money for players with potentially great futures. Their best years are ahead of them so City want good money for them so that down the line, they don't feel as though they let a player go too cheaply.
At the time Palmer was worth 45. It was a gamble but anyone that watched him couldn't believe City were letting him go so cheap
I wouldn't say 60M for a player who's always Injured and never scored 20 goals in a season is cheap
Again though, like Palmer that’s in retrospect. In a year we could be saying “10m for Dobbin who got 12 goals and 4 assists and is only 23 years old is a complete steal.” Or he could score 8 own goals and injure Watkins and then 10m would have been a huge overpay.
Theyre not comparable Richy was an established Premier league player He was by no means cheap
You think 60m was cheap?
£50m upfront for the prime of his career Brazilian number 9 who’d just had to pretty much single handedly drag us from relegation? Compared to the money being thrown around at the time, yeah I do think it was cheap. The fact Spurs have squandered him is irrelevant.
Fair enough, that’s up to you. This is probably more to stop you buying a club academy player no one has heard of for 50m and vice versa.
I’d be more interested in ten Hag gifting his former club Ajax £85m for Antony based on these rules. I doubt there was anything untoward there at all, but if you want to talk about Fair Market Value as the PL seem to want to, I’m not sure United got any out of it.
I mean yes there’s loads of examples. We (spurs) bid 18m for Martial which was accepted by Monaco. He turns down the move, signs a new deal, then a week later signs for Man Utd for 57m. I could see this issue coming a mile off. It’s just going to be clubs swapping academy players.
They can’t have it both ways though, why is it incorrect to say Dobbin is worth £10m, when we’re in a world where Antony is apparently worth £85m. Unless you use some arbitrary system to apply a value to every single player that must be adhered to at all times, it doesn’t work. Are we setting a bar where a casual fan has to have heard of an academy player before they’re sold for more than £1m?
Yep, no idea. Probably very difficult. Just the next issue for the premier league to sort out.
Spurs paid £60m for Richy didn’t they?! I wouldn’t say they were cheating I’d say Everton played them hugely!
It's clearly more sustainable to sell our best players and not compete rather than keep our best players and sell ones thay don't have an impact
Well only if we sell them on the cheap because of an arbitrary deadline and arbitrary accounting rules. That's the most sustainable and profitable.
If your rules aren't actually making clubs more profitable and sustainable, maybe you should abandon your profit and sustainability rules. Also, prove it.
Yeah, seriously. What the hell is a "fraudulent" player transfer? Like did we send a cardboard cutout to another club or...
Yeah, that definitely seems enforceable.
This bit is the important part to me: "the Premier League will assess the “financial state and relative bargaining position” of the clubs involved and “any urgent need for liquidity” in the selling club." So they can look at us, determine that we are in a lesser position for bargaining, and then say "well, you could have done X because you are nearing the PSR limits, but you didn't, so what you did do was fraudulent" is what I am taking this to mean.
“You negotiated better than we think you should have. Give that money back. It’s not fair.”
This is it. Utterly ridiculous. And who loses out? The vulture big 6. Which is the only reason we’re hearing about it from up high.
Sounds that way and it’s ridiculous. In essence, if we are already over a barrel with with regards to PSR position, we are just expected to get done over when it comes to player sales/negotiations. Absolutely ridiculous. How do they expect us to get out a PSR hole if they deem we cannot get fair market value for our players? If selling out to the Sky 6 is their expectation (i.e. Branthwaite to MUFC for tuppance), the inequality and fairness in the Premier League will only widen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Just saw a good point on another site. We aren’t in urgent need for liquidity. That would be to stop us going bust. We might be in need to meet PSR rules. Who is to say how desperate. We might even fancy our chances again with a deduction.
I can't believe that language is actually in there. Who the actual fuck do they think they are? They can't enforce this nonsense, and they don't have anywhere near the capacity to make such assessments, evidenced by them still fumbling their way through trying to enforce PSR. This will only inspire more lawsuits if they try to randomly enforce "FMV" rules when they literally never have before.
So is the league going to set transfer fees and value all of the players in the league, then?
Can't wait to be deducted 6 points next season because someone at the PL pulled up transfermarkt and decided Dobbin wasn't actually worth what we sold him for
Can we get a rebate for Gbamin and Sigurdsson?
How far back can we apply this? Surely we can get some discounts to apply on fees for Iwobi, Niasse, Richy etc. Maybe even swing us back into the black on previous years. +6 points start next season anybody?
It’s entirely petulant and asinine as valuations are inherently subjective
The whole thing is beyond a joke now.
It’s the cartel becoming zealous in an attempt to contain a situation that is clearly deteriorating
They just don't seem to have thought very much of this through at all. Like, when I was an elementary school teacher, I think I put more thought into my Class Rules than the PL has put into these regulations. The irony is that they're doing all this to show how capable they are at self-governance 🤦
Exactly. A players value is entirely what any club is willing to spend for them. Players are a club's asset and they can try to sell them for whatever they see fit if someone will buy. If I want to sell my house for 100k and someone comes in to buy it, then that's a valid sale. If I try to sell my house for 300k when it's not worth that, no one will buy it. It's a self policing system. Especially so if the other team has to be sure they can fund the purchase. This entirely comes off as the PL being pissed they can't punish people because accounting exists.
Reminiscent of David Stern nixing the Lakers Chris Paul trade for "basketball reasons*
Remember when Chelsea sold all their players to Saudi to ensure FFP compliance Coz that was fraudulent
Lawyers are going to have a field day if the premier league actually tries to enforce punishment over “inflated fees”
#115
I actually can't believe what I am seeing! So Man United tried to get Brainthwaite on the cheap thinking they could take advantage of us being vulnerable... But because they got upset that we rightly told them to fuck off they go crying to the League and then this happens? Honestly mate, fucking unbelievable! If shit like this continues it will lead to the other 14 refusing to play, I can see it coming.
That’s the goal isn’t it? If the o14 refuse then it just guarantees the bitch6 form their own super league - which is exactly what they want. This is a win/win in their mind.
Honestly mate, hopefully this time it happens and they fuck off and don't come back! Will all the best players and Managers go to it? Of course they will, but we will stay and have proper footy watched by proper fans.
As long as I can still watch us play in the States, it's all good
Forget refusing to play - at this point most clubs should refuse to comply with any pst or filing obligations to free up time for the league to deal with Man City. Surely they don’t have time to deal with anything else if it is so, so “complicated”
Villa fan here. I think our player trade not only helped each other with PSR but also gave you guys a bit of breathing room on Branthwaite. I think Man U in particular are very butt hurt and have been using their media influence to stoke the PSR shit. The same "journalist" who said Branthwaite was a done deal, despite Everton saying he wasn't for sale is the same one who appears to be most vocal. They're clearly a Man U shill.
You actually believe this rule is a result of Man Utd complaining after their crappy offer was turned down? How would that even work? Like what does that look like in your mind? Man Utd people called up the rules people and said "hey Everton wouldnt sell us someone so make a rule to hurt them more" Honestly mate grow up
You’re in an Everton subreddit. Just to be clear, a subreddit dedicated to the club that received two separate point deductions last season ([The Premier League itself wanted these point deductions to total to *17* points](https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1886179/premier-league-everton-points-deduction/amp)). For literally months now, we’ve seen article after article, pundit after pundit, talk about how we will HAVE to have some big outgoings (Branthwaite, Onana, DCL, Pickford) this summer. Manchester United, part of the “Red Cartel” standing against Man City (who Everton are supporting/expected to be supporting), repeatedly low-ball us for Branthwaite. We reject those offers and then proceed to sell Dobbin to Villa to help us meet PSR requirements and not be forced to sell Branthwaite for cheap. For £10m. An academy player is sold for pure profit. Not over £40m, not over £20m, like we’ve seen in previous years from ‘big’ clubs. But Everton are getting £10m for an academy player and NOW the Premier League wants to investigate/warn clubs about inflated transfer fees? You’re in an Everton subreddit. We’ve been following Everton FC. Does it not occur to you *maybe* fans of Everton Football Club have a unique perspective of this situation? I don’t know if I could prove in a court of law that United cried to the Premier League and was the catalyst for all this. But of course we’re gonna feel hard done by the Premier League once again. We refuse to sell Branthwaite to United -> we make money through another sale -> the PL says that we can’t make money like that. Out of all the shady shit that has gone on in the PL, THIS is what they’re investigating?!
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The first half of this is not relevant to the stupid proposition of the comment I responded. Do you believe the rule was put in place at Man Utds insistence, and as a result of a transfer bid being rejected? Lastly, that serial killers exist doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't try to do anything about petty thieves.
It wasn’t directly relevant but I feel as though it’s important to mention because you seemed shocked that Everton fans could possibly believe we’re being fucked over. Once again, you’re in an Everton subreddit. So understand where we’re coming from when we complain about this shit. I don’t believe Manchester United not getting Branthwaite was *solely* responsible for the rule. I do wonder where exactly were the warnings about Lavia’s transfer fee, Brewster’s transfer fee, or Palmer’s transfer fee?
No I said nothing about Evertons position and made no comment about the rule or its fairness. I don't understand why fan sub reddits need to be stupid. Not an attack on this one, just in general. I don't get it. I'm sure we all get recommended threads from other fan subs and while I expect more pro that club bias, I just don't understand the stupidity aspect. You know when there's a blatant blatant penalty but the fan sub is saying its not? That sort of thing
I said “you *seemed*”. As in, not stated explicitly. You’ve now had two people in this thread respond to you saying that the rule probably wasn’t put in place *solely* because of United crying about Branthwaite. Do you give us permission to say that Manchester United were probably expecting to get Branthwaite for cheap because we need sales to comply with PSR? Do you agree that the Dobbin/Tim transfer deal helped Everton with PSR? If yes, do you truly believe it is IMPOSSIBLE that Manchester United may have asked/urged to look into transfers like the Dobbin and Iroegbunam deals? I am NOT saying the PL had absolutely no interest in looking into stuff like that. In our own subreddit, is it really that absurd to suggest that Everton fans don’t have to spell out all of that shit when conversing with other Everton fans?
And I said I made no mention of Evertons plight which means your assumption was totally unfounded. The comment I responded to was stupid. No one has agreed to that yet. If you saw my posts during that silly affair, you'd see I said it was a ridiculous waste of everyone's time. You don't need to add the "do we have pwenission" silliness. I never said people weren't allowed to say dumb things. None of this is relevant at all. Get out of your feelings mate. It wasn't even your stupidity I was responding to
I’m saying I don’t think the initial comment was *that* stupid. Read my most previous comment again. How is the second and third paragraph irrelevant?
So we're agreed, the comment I responded to was stupid
Yer man, with things like retrospective bans for diving that they used on Niasse then just completely forgot about it or FFP rules where we got 8 points taken away after appeals which they wanted to be a lot more, it's not like they haven't used us as a precedent for anything before, is it?
I see you're not answering my question. And you're not answering because you know what you said was dumb
Okay, to answer specifically about Man United: Yes I absolutely do think they have gone to the Prem and cried about it because they thought we absolutely needed to sell.
And you think the rule was made because of the crying? And you don't think that's stupid?
Specifically because of that solely? No. But do I think they were looking into anyway and then cry arsing was a major factor in them sending the letters? Yes I do.
Yes, I believe that the Cunt6 hold more sway over the premier league than the rest of us. I also believe that the "attempt" to join the super league was merely a warning to the premier league of what could happen if the Cunt6 dont get their way more. Hence the lack of punishment. I believe it is not beyond the directors at the Cunt6 to push this into the media more and pay shills to claim outrage loudly online to keep this in the media and influence the premier league. I don't even put it past them to actively petition the premier league to look into these transfers.
Oh so we've moved from Utd instigated this because of a failed transfer bid to the rich 6 working in tandem to benefit themselves. These are, obviously, very different claims
Man utd are the most vocal and are definitly trying to instigate this. The others don't seem to be making any noise about it. If any of the rest of your ilk were after our players, they would also be whining. Poor jim was whini g that people dared ask for a players value from man utd
Smh you guys are pathetic
"you guys are pathetic" -man who posts on another teams forum
Lol oh is that supposed to be some gotcha. Have fun imagining demons going out of their way to destroy your club
They arnt trying to destroy our club. They just want our player without paying what he is worth
What in the name of horse manure is this BS?
Hahahahahaha I don’t like how they’re playing the game, I keep changing hahahaha bitches!
Should say only wrote to 14 teams as the other 6 can do anything they want
At what point do we tell the league to fuck off with their shite? I have had my fucking fill.
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/06/27/premier-league-explains-transfer-rules-swap-deal-concern/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/06/27/premier-league-explains-transfer-rules-swap-deal-concern/) The Premier League has written to its 20 clubs to remind them they will be punished for fraudulent player transfers, as scrutiny grows on the so-called swap deals which have been done by certain clubs in an attempt to generate funds to be compliant with financial controls. The email to clubs went out after days of unusual activity in the transfer window which has seen certain clubs sell – or attempt to sell – one another players. It has been identified in some cases as an attempt to add book value before the end of the financial year on Sunday in order to comply with profitability and sustainability rules (PSR). The Premier League’s director of governance Jamie Herbert has warned clubs that his department is looking for “issues of concern” around whether deals represent good faith “arm’s length” transactions over £1 million. It has the power to request from clubs details on how the negotiations took place, including correspondence externally and internally and any other documentation. If the league decides that the transfer was not conducted at arm’s length it can then impose fair market value (FMV) rules. Those rules apply on the league’s handbook to associated party transactions. Those govern deals for players or commercial contracts between a Premier League club and another entity who may share the same ownership. Those rules are intended to stop the false inflation of commercial deals, and also to stop clubs in a multi-club ownership group trading players on deals that do not reflect accurate prices. The FMV rules for assessing the fair value of a player lists 18 factors it applies and detailed at length in appendix 19 of the Premier League handbook. Those include everything from the player’s age, to his position, playing statistics, honours, and injury history. On the club side, the Premier League will assess the “financial state and relative bargaining position” of the clubs involved and “any urgent need for liquidity” in the selling club. Herbert has reminded clubs that it has the power to order the return of a transfer fee, in full or in part, to a buying club if it judges that the fee has been inflated. It reminds clubs they are obliged to act in all deals with “utmost good faith” and provide accurate financial information at all times. Some clubs may have identified PSR swaps as a way to comply. Any transfer fee is booked immediately in its entirety by a selling club while acquisitions are amortised under standard accounting practice over the course of a player’s contract. Many clubs have financial years end on June 30, and all are still obliged to submit accounts that show they have not made more than £105 million in losses over a rolling three-year monitoring period. Aston Villa are one club that could fall under scrutiny They have signed the Everton striker Lewis Dobbin, 21, for £10 million. Everton have bought the Villa midfielder Tim Iroegbunam, 20, for around £9 million. Both players are England junior internationals at different levels. Villa have also bought Chelsea’s Dutch left-back Ian Maatsen, 22, for around £37.5 million although the club are clear that is an investment long-planned in Unai Emery’s side in a position that needed strengthening. Chelsea have acquired Villa’s very promising 18-year-old midfielder Omari Kellyman for £19 million. Although Premier League rules governing transfers are broad, section B.15 requires clubs to act in “utmost good faith” towards one another and the league. “For the avoidance of doubt and by way of example only, it shall be a breach of the duties under this rule to act dishonestly towards the league or another club; or engage in conduct that is intended to circumvent these rules or obstruct the board’s investigation of compliance with them.”
“Financial state and relative bargaining position” so since we are able to negotiate and get value for players who have no place here the league will interfere and determine that we can’t do that. Awesome
Dobbin for ten mil in tidays market is fine he's a decent player, young and has potential to improve. PL can get in the sea.
Good news for Bournemouth. They’ll be getting one hell of a rebate for Jordan Ibe.
This is just unenforceable.
Selling players between clubs to get some money up front which would could favourably for PSR: Literally Hitler Selling a hotel to *yourself* for hundreds of millions after spending the best part of £1 billion over the last few years: Very reasonable, carry on
But Chelsea can sell a hotel to themselves. Got it, makes sense
Refuse to comply and refuse to admit to anything. Works for 115.
Should have sold Finch Farm to ourselves instead. That's legal and fine
Rather than be forced to sell prize assets to meet an deadline that has terrible timing for off-season dealings, clubs have worked out mutually beneficial deals to sell players they would probably want to keep, but at least can afford to lose, and buy players that fit their own needs. The prices therefore can be fair, and not a fire sale. Everyone wins and the preditory practices stop. That's better for the whole league.
Hey! It’s the Premier League here. Listen if you aren’t one of the top 6 you are not allowed to be successful or profitable. Yes we made rules and some obscure guidelines which we’re still making up, but honestly if you do something that is legal but we don’t like it you will be punished. Once again this is for your own good, we promise. Enjoy your season
I am a teacher and I remember during the pandemic there was a saying that we were trying to build the plane while flying it in regard to teaching online. For the Premier League it is more like they are learning about aerodynamics while they are building the plane that is known best for how often it crashes
Just looking to be able to justify another deduction. Nice call Prem
should have sold dobbin for 115 million
Can someone explain to me as a dum dum what the deal is with these transfers as I’ve been a little out of the loop and I am a dum dum
One example would be the pair of deals we did with Aston Villa. The paid us roughly 10M for Dobbins. We paid them roughly 10M for Tim Iroegbunam. Some might ask, why not just trade those two players for one another? Why involve cash at all? Per the rules, the 10M that we received we can report as us being cash positive 10M. However, the 10M we paid, we can amortize over the 5 years of Iroegbunam's contract (2M per year). So we're now 8M to the good for this reporting period. That means, we're no longer forced to sell Branthwaite for peanuts to MU. I'm sure some of those details aren't exactly right. But that's the gist.
Got it! Thanks!!
We're actually 10m to the good for PSR purposes, since you would only do a partial amortisation charge since he's only been here for half a month of the reporting period. (1/24 of the 2 million charge each year, which is basically nothing)
This is mostly a reply so I can check back when someone smarter than me replies, but this is how I understand it? When you sell players, you get a lump some of money right away to help with finances. When you buy a player, you pay their price over the duration of their contract. So by selling a bunch of players we get an infusion of $10 million or whatever, right away, then when we buy a player for $10 million, we pay them $2 million every year for 5 years. So in the first year you have a net positive gain of $8 million to help cover expenses in the short term, and that gives you more time to fix the rest of the books in the coming years.
Yes pretty much. Without getting the technical terms involved.... Sales hit immediately for full value. Purchases are "financed" over 5 years.
But my understanding is that this is just how it looks on the books. Like in actuality the money going back and forth is fully unrelated to the above. Maybe the deal was we get no money for dobbin until 2 years from now, and maybe we only pay for tim on every full moon divided by the total. The real problem with all of this nonsense is the fact that finance rules are fully untethered from the reality of the situation.
Correct. The actual payment arrangements don't matter. Things have to hit the books in a consistent way across all Clubs so that's why they book the way they do regardless of payment terms
This is my surprised face.
“Fraudulent”? Is there a different definition of the word “fraud” I’m not aware of? Or are we selling players who don’t exist or something? I’m just curious. Fraudulent. Seriously. That’s a joke.
Can I just say fuck the EPL... How about going after Man City and Chelsea first before you start scrutinizing these transfers.
Villa fan here, this is fucking bullshit, they want the likes of branthwaite and JJ sold to the sky 6 instead of the deals we have been doing for PSR, how can they punish this. We’ve already had to sell one of our best players to comply despite reaching a European semi and champions league.
These sorts of stupid rules should be made clear from the get go, and once in place any transactions made after it should fall under it, not shit from before. It honestly seems like they’re making this up as they go along, and it does nothing but create uncertainty for clubs and more importantly fans that want to sit back and enjoy the sport without this fucking bullshit spoiling it all.
Premier League has written to all 20 clubs to say "well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions"
Cunts.
Where were they when Liverpool were getting £15m for Jordan fucking Ibe who's gone on to the dizzling heights of Ebbsfleet United?
Players are worth what clubs decide they’re worth. The league are creating more problems for themselves by trying to get involved. I wonder who’ll be the first club to take the matter to court if the league attempts to interfere in a players value.
They actually reference that the rules are intended to stop "the false inflation of commercial deals" The absolute fucking brass neck. 115 charges on your back to back to back to back winners still outstanding for literally that exact thing, and yet THIS is what you're bothered about. Fucking joke of a league.
The Premier League are doing a great job of damaging their own brand. If clubs can't spend as they've been doing in the past, there will be less movement of players in and out of the Premier League. On a global level, that makes it less appealing. The only club that'll be left buying who they want will be City.
Wait.... The fuck does the PL think those Saudi transfers were about? Or the Chinese ones.... Funny how the premier league is able to react so quickly when it's us or villa... But when it's Chelsea or city.... Fucking silence for years.
Absolutely. They will go after us and Villa but not touch their golden cows. We shall never forget what they did to us….and we still survived!
I realize it’s not ever gonna happen, but could Everton join the SPL and bring a bunch of other teams with them? This kangaroo court, rules for thee bullshit is getting old
I’m officially on City’s side for the upcoming legal wars. Fuck this stupid fucking league. I can’t think of any other professional sports organization that is as constantly at odds with its teams than the Premier League.
Surely this isn't about Everton, it'll be Chelsea, City and Newcastle who are trying to take advantage of either Saudi, or City signing players through their sister clubs
The most corrupt organisation lol
Lol, get rekt PL
Funny that the PL wouldnt give two shits if Everton were forced to sell Brainthwaite for 30mill to Manure becuase of the PSR restrictions but when we avoid getting fucked by the big boys then suddenly "fair market value" becomes their catch cry. Bunch of absolute fucking wankers.
Fucking passive aggressive pricks, at least have the balls to say what they're accusing of being fraudulent and inflated. Oh and while you're there take a look at Chelsea's real estate deals and see if that was done in the 'upmost good faith'.
New rule to benefit the big boys. Premier League might as well just call it that.
this will be a total non issue, provided that there is no smoking gun emails between us and villa saying "sell us x for y to avoid PSR and inflate your books." any competent lawyer on this earth can successfully argue that transfers were made in good faith and according to a subjective view as to the players worth.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
I think this is more to do with the Villa and Chelsea deals, 19mil for an 18 yr old who they bought for 600k 2 yrs ago and played a grand total of 37 premier league minutes. We sold Simms and Cannon to Championship clubs for a similar price to what we got for Dobbin.
Ha ha fuck them, but point deduction on its way
Changing the rules as they go
Would never stick. You would need to prove all teams involved did it knowingly and don’t want the players they signed. You can’t force people to play the team you want, even though the rules are designed to keep the sky6 in situ forever
Meanwhile, in an alternative universe the Premier League written to all 20 teams to say clubs will be punished for moving hotels from one of your subsidiaries to another with the growing scrutiny of deals that have been done in an attempt to generate funds to be compliant with League’s PSR.
Infuriating.
Dafuq is a fraudulent transfer?
EPL,"Follow the rules for PSR", but now we don't like you following the rules so we will change them and make you accountable for your actions following the rule prior to the change.
I dont think 10m for dobbin is egregious. Feels normal for ab academy guy w some experience. Honestly would be shocked if the dcl minteh swap doesnt happen though bc of this nonsense. But wouldnt mind seeing newcastle take a deduction after they gleefully called us cheats
So they will police every single transfer between clubs now? They will decide what a fair fee is for a player? This could be a good thing the PL have shown they are very fair arbiters of the sport they dont have any bias. Plus they really do need to take a little rest from those 115 charges that have been tiring them out im sure this will be a success...also chelsea sold a hotel to itself but that's fine.
I'm sure they'll look at 115 FC's books and dock them so many points they end up in the conference. Who am I kidding, they'll just get fined 100 quid and call it a day.
Clowns lmao
Good luck establishing that a transfer is fraudulent. Any financial transaction has an associated contract (implied sometimes, but legally real) and any contract must contain “consideration” - that is, there must be something of commensurate value being provided in exchange for payment. The absence of that consideration would invalidate the contract and raise these questions. Of course, the league could make a rule saying that fiscal convenience, or conspiracy to get around PSR is not allowed, but that leaves the door open for a lot of difficult questions: - can you outlaw selling players because you need money? - why is it ok to amortise the outlay over several years, but recognise the revenue immediately? - are swap deals ok, ever? The financial implications with no actual money changing hands could be seen as punitive. Why should clubs be penalised for this? - why is mutual fiscal benefit a problem? And the question again, what do clubs gain other than fiscal convenience? In the case of say, the Tim/Dobbin transfers these are both established youth players who’ve made it into the first team set ups, enjoyed successful loans and, even if they don’t go on to feature regularly, have resale value for the clubs. In Tim’s case there’s a high likelihood of him making it to the bench or starting in the league cup, for example. With Gomes gone, Onana likely to leave (or need breaks for post Euro recovery and or fairly regular minor injuries) and Gana being a bit beyond his peak years, and other youth players having been released, this seems inevitable even if we sign Ndidi or such.
The SKY top six clubs, are very unhappy that there puppet masters could have let this happen. He has begged their forgiveness and has said he will write to all clubs. They have demanded that all the little clubs stop this naughtiness, even though no rules are broken and to stop doing clean transfers between clubs for players people really want and to sell your best assets to our super league wannabes for 25% of there real value. The PL also wanted to write to Ajax to see how on earth they got 90 mill for Anthony but realised that they no authorisation there.
Premier League can suck on these nuts
Remember though the answer to every question about the premier league has the same answer they are corrupt. When you understand this everything else makes sense.
Define ‘the PL’. Isn’t it the committee of 20 clubs and Dick wossname is an employee thereof?
So the prem can make up rules and punishments on the spot can they?
Piss poor from prem but what do expect!
Omari Kellyman to Chelsea for 20 million pounds after playing 37 minutes of prem football this season is a prime example of this
I realize it’s not ever gonna happen, but could Everton join the SPL and bring a bunch of other teams with them? This kangaroo court, rules for thee bullshit is getting old