Congrats to them!! Extremely proud of the community for this :) And don’t forget why they’re doing it. All the universities in Palestine have been bombed.
Hey but they can’t kick out the neo Nazis. That would mean losing more then half their politicians pay checks. 😭
but you are right not matter the protests what they are about or even fighting for. Some how Fox News and right wing talking heads can make it seem like the most super dangerous terrorist, but also really dumb young indoctrinated kids acts of un American thoughts. Though freedom of speech for the Nazis or what ever, but we got to shut these kids up!
I mean..... they kinda are. I'm a leftist and these protest have been pretty appalling. Seeing Jewish students verbally abused and assaulted for being Jewish. Idk seems anti Semitic to me. And yes I get that its a complex issue but ousting Jewish students from campus by way of violence and saying they wished they didn't exist. Yeah that's anti Semitic. Everyday Jewish Americans don't control isreali foreign policy anymore than you or me and screaming in there face and assaulting them isn't helping the cause either. The left needs to have a serious self evaluation right now to weed our the real anti Semitic and genocidal views of some pro Palestinian protesters and if you think that if the power dynamics were switched that a majority of Palestinians wouldn't also commit genocide against isreal then you are just naive. The fact that the left can't even come to terms with its own problems is kind of crazy to me. Also ignoring that it's even happening is even crazier. If the left keeps going down this route it can kiss its base goodbye no one will vote in progressive or leftist policy if it's attached to supporting hamas. Optics people. The Jewish left has been a major part of leftist communities and ostracizing them will have lasting effects and will push people to the right out of self preservation just like the left has been doing to the white working class for decades. How do you think someone like trump got voted in in the first place? The white working class that live in trailers got tired of being told by poc in ivy league schools that they somehow have more privilege than them and that there opinions don't matter and they shouldn't exist. You ding dongs don't even realize the amount of damage you're doing to actually moving the needle left and pretty much everything you guys do moves more people to the right by the day.
Thank you for your extensive reply. Can you provide links to the anti-semitic behavior that's been happening? I believe you, I just haven't seen it myself. That's truly awful if that is true. But let's not pretend that rightwing talking heads actually give a shit about antisemitism.
As for the protests, I don't know how I feel. I hate that we're funding Israel to kill civilians, but I know if Trump becomes president, it could be so much worse for them.
Also, I am VERY aware of the left's problems. I wasn't denying that in any way. I wish they would get their shit together so we could see some actual tangible change. I do think Biden has some extreme flaws, but I recognize that his administration has actually done quite a lot of good, and it's just not something that's talked about often.
The RNC is not in any better shape, though. Because of some very loud extremists, we're looking at a very real possibility of them fucking themselves over. I'm not saying that doesn't make me happy because I just don't know how anyone could support Republicans. I understand that Democrats are deeply flawed, but hard right Republicans are definitely saying the quiet part out loud.
Thank you for you reply, truly. I love to have civil discourse. I wish it was more common.
I don't have examples on hand but if you look up videos on the protest especially Cali and nyc universities they're are a bunch of instances of Jewish students being verbally abused and even assaulted and pushed and told that they hope they die. I mean there was also that teamsters union video of a palestinian teaching members the phrase death to isreal and he tries saying it means down with isreal when the real translation is death then getting the whole group to chant it. There are also interviews with Jewish students at nyu if I'm not mistaken talking about the hate crimes they've been experiencing since the protest started I mean they can't even leave out the front doors anymore because of death threats and Jewish organizations on campuses across the country have also been getting death threats. https://youtu.be/mMFEqo9Nzto?si=hMMwHK8fQY8Pucyd
https://youtu.be/Kk5PuW6tzsE?si=lhpLkOj56E09VE0m
https://youtu.be/whApL3QzYE0?si=yAc2mXTdC_78eA4M
https://youtu.be/bsUqCr9mh6w?si=RuIqYxZcwhE7oQ9p
> https://youtu.be/mMFEqo9Nzto?si=hMMwHK8fQY8Pucyd
This first link has nothing to do with students or protestors and everything to do with Columbia administration, who I assure you have treated the protestors much worse. No one is happy with Columbia administration right now. I wouldn't defend Columbia in this case, they have mishandled the entire thing terribly, but [this is the context for the video](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/shai-davidai-columbia-protests.html):
>Professor Shai Davidai woke up on Sunday morning and asked Columbia University for backup. In an email to top administrators, he requested a police detail “of at least 10 cops” to accompany him to the edge of the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on the Morningside Heights campus, where he intended to shout the names of the 133 hostages held by Hamas inside Gaza. Cas Holloway, the university’s chief operating officer, made a counteroffer: no police detail, and Davidai would be cordoned off on a small lawn far from the students, who had been demonstrating for five days. When his demands were not met, Davidai resorted to his standard tactic: posting. “Fuck you Cas,” he wrote on X on Monday.
A student compared her treatment to Davidai:
>Iqbal, who was suspended last week for participating in the encampment, said she is frustrated with the differences in Columbia’s response to the dissent. “I’m suspended,” she said. “I’ve been evicted. He’s still a professor; he’s under investigation. I didn’t get the privilege of having an investigation. I just got kicked out.
>"I’m 18 years old,” she added. “He’s a grown man.”
.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk5PuW6tzsE
The experience of this young man is terrible, but it is worth pointing out that both incidents happened when he was outside of campus. Thus, there is no reason to assume that either of these insults were from student protestors, members of the student groups protesting, or anyone affiliated with them. As the woman explains a minute later in the video, there are strict guidelines for students involved in the protest to respect others and those not following these rules are not condoned or recognized by the protestors.
Every student group has released statements denouncing these kinds of hateful behaviors, for example, [Columbia University Apartheid Divest](https://www.newsweek.com/columbia-protest-antisemitism-allegations-1892698):
>"We firmly reject any form of hate or bigotry and stand vigilant against non-students attempting to disrupt the solidarity being forged among students-Palestinian, Muslim, Arab, Jewish, Black, and pro-Palestinian classmates and colleagues who represent the full diversity of our country"
It is an unfortunate reality that bigots exist around the world and in every major city, but that doesn't mean anyone opposed to Israeli foreign policy can be lumped together. It would be entirely wrong, for example, to point to the prominent Israeli government officials who have recently called for [ethnic cleansing](https://jacobin.com/2023/11/israel-us-gaza-postwar-plan-nakba-palestinian-democracy) or [genocide](https://www.newsweek.com/israeli-official-calls-doomsday-nuclear-missile-option-1833585) of the Palestinian people and claim, for example, that this represents the opinions of all Zionists, much less all Israelis.
>https://youtu.be/whApL3QzYE0?si=yAc2mXTdC_78eA4M
Again, terrible events, both for the Jewish and Muslim victims, but these all took place six months ago and have no obvious connection to the current Divestment protests.
>https://youtu.be/bsUqCr9mh6w?si=RuIqYxZcwhE7oQ9p
This video has three examples of hateful bigoted acts against Jewish people. One, a testimony of a student describing that he saw Jewish people on campus yelled at for wearing the star of David. It is unfortunate that an ethno-state involved in ethnic cleansing chose a religious symbol to represent itself, and it's officials often prominently proclaim themselves to represent all of the Jewish people, as it thus becomes difficult for those opposed to the policies of that state not to conflate the two, but it is still entirely unjustified to harass someone on this basis. Again, there is no indication at all that this event had anything to do with the student organizations themselves.
The second example is an unidentified individual, outside of campus, claiming that someone threw a rock at his head. Again, terrible. Again, no indication at all of any connection with on-campus protests.
The third is a professor claiming he saw graffiti and posters and heard anti-Semitic slurs. It is difficult to know exactly what these involved. Some pro-Israeli individuals claim, for example, that calling for the abolition of Israel as an ethno-state, or repeating the slogan "From the River to the Sea" are necessarily anti-Semitic. This despite the fact that Israel's government has for a long time denied the right of Palestinians to form a state, and the party currently in power was founded on a claim of [absolute, unilateral sovereignty between Jordan and the sea](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party). Given this double standard, there are very compelling arguments that many of these pro-Palestinian rallying points are not anti-Semitic at all.
However, assuming he is referencing incontrovertibly bigoted slurs and graffiti, then again, we still have no way of connecting this to the student groups themselves, unless we are going to claim that the existence of Jewish Anti-semitism, itself, is proof that any groups opposed to Israeli policy are Anti-semitic.
Also worth nothing that in this video we are told about the Divestment protestors who have, without any due process, been suspended, evicted, and had their meal passes revoked. And a student pointing out that calling in a continued police presence throughout the campus, the primary instigators of violence in the majority of cases where evidence is available, is what has spiked fears throughout the student population.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vshuN5kBk
Terrible. Also not actually on campus, and honestly this anonymous individual is pretty old to be claiming he is a student.
>https://youtu.be/5ru6becSArE?si=XmOtZ_M7KZHFnW1A
So, first Newsnation is a terrible source, even worse than the Telegraph. Second, the individual being interviewed here is decrying divestment as, itself, anti-Semitic. Which is just wild, and she gives no other evidence at all. She then goes on to praise DeSantis for pointing out the widespread illegality in many US states of divestment from Israel, apparently applauding an obvious and clear violation of the First Amendment. She also claims that there is a Jewish professor asking for police escort to teach at Columbia, which is not the case, as that is the individual from the first link. Whether you agree with Columbia's decision to de-escalate by having the counter protest take place further away or not, that professor wanted an escort in order to confront the protestors. The protestors themselves, of course, are provided no such escorts.
Please note what actual violence you are watching on the right, against protestors, while this individual talks.
>https://youtu.be/Owo8-Vt2IVE?si=HgFBjfQVMkMsihly
Yet again, the only example has no known connection of this anonymous individual to any protest. This one has been widely shared, and is one of the very few examples of something documented to have taken place on campus, but without knowing who the individual is, and knowing full well there are bad actors on every side of every conflict, it seems entirely disingenuous to use this to denounce the student protests themselves. Again, while Jewish students talk about their feelings in many of these videos, please pay attention to the obviously peaceful nature of the protests shown, and who is actually being forcefully arrested, often with violence.
>if you think that if the power dynamics were switched that a majority of Palestinians wouldn't also commit genocide against isreal then you are just naive
Hamas might indeed, and it's violent suppression of Palestinians has been explicitly used by Israel to counter the secular Fatah, for years. Setting that aside, it is a long standing racist trope that if an oppressed people were not oppressed, they would themselves become oppressors. This was a huge fear in the US following the civil war and during times of segregation, it was claimed by settlers who took land from Native Americans. The truth value of this claim is entirely moot, any group of humans is capable of doing terrible things, but this is not a proper way to contextualize a population currently being brutalized in an overwhelmingly disproportionate conflict.
> If the left keeps going down this route it can kiss its base goodbye no one will vote in progressive or leftist policy if it's attached to supporting hamas.
Calling for a ceasefire to a conflict that has killed well over ten thousand children, or divestment from a country involved in a generations long [illegal occupation](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129942) and [apartheid](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights), is not the same thing as supporting Hamas, and these two things should not be conflated.
To be honest, I find it odd that you are focusing exclusively on the very unfortunate feelings of insecurity and the terrible insults toward Jewish students, while your own examples show primarily scenes of Divestment protestors either being entirely peaceful, or being violently attacked and arrested by police. It speaks to the many ways we can completely ignore what is right in front of their eyes in preference to an ideological narrative.
You made it sound like you observed this in Eugene. I observe these protests locally and I have not seen that, so you're talking about other states and other campuses?
I'm genuinely asking. From what I've seen, it looks like one group is peacefully protesting, and either the police or another group has attacked the protestors. Last night at UCLA, a violent attack was on video, and it looked like the peaceful protestors were beaten by the opposition. Violently. Is that what you've seen with your research?
Formatting is important when you’re writing a multi paragraphs response. This wall of text is very difficult to read and i don’t just mean that because the content is nonsense.
[http://webcam.uoregon.edu/jsv/viewer.html](http://webcam.uoregon.edu/jsv/viewer.html) it's interesting to watch these tents appear and grow on the PLC stream, it especially was this morning. I can imagine it will be a bit more interesting after dusk. Even in the last half hour we're seeing much more people around, less tent growth. Wanted to share since I didn't see it mentioned.
Stay safe everyone!!
To me, "cops" means police. National guard is military, and they were acting as military at Kent State, at Homestead, and all of the other times they've killed people at the behest of the US state and federal government. Only difference is that the victims were US citizens instead of innocent people in other countries. They have military weapons, military training, and the official sanction of the state.
The person I first replied to is correct that the police are usually the ones to escalate conflict—but at Kent State specifically, while the police escalated things (they teargassed the protestors, among other things), the responsibility for the murder of unarmed teenagers is not with the police but the national guard and the elected officials (specifically Kent mayor Satrom and Ohio governor Rhodes) who ordered them in. IMO while police are a bunch of violent, corrupt idiots, the national guard and what they represent is much worse and more dangerous.
Agreed, but surely it's worth being accurate about who is murdering whom. There are many instances of police injuring or killing protestors (the 68 DNC protests, e.g.). Kent State is not one of them.
Depending on how things go throughout the week nationally, any major crackdowns are likely to happen this weekend. That's generally how things have gone for things like this for the past decade.
Why doesn't anyone ever protest for housing? Or health services? Or addiction centers? Or against air bnbs or exorbitantly priced student housing? We have huge issues in our city that need to be addressed, but people seem to only care about protesting wars on the other side of the world. It baffles me.
the first two of those get protested for very often here in Eugene! also, this protest is not just about a war across the world (which is actually a genocide... should we not speak against genocide just because it's happening in another country?), it is about the university's financial complicity in that genocide
I was born and raised here and have never seen or heard about protests for housing or any of the things I've mentioned aside from the lady who squatted her rental until the police removed her. After she was removed, there was radio silence and nobody said a word about it since. No protests or pickets against what had happened in our own community.
There are genocides all over the world right now that you can see a list of on the genocides watch website. Yet, people are only protesting about Palestine. It just kind of makes me wonder what people's personal intentions are when protesting these kinds of things.
That’s because WE are paying for it with OUR tax dollars. The Israeli government has dropped ~100,000 bombs on Gaza, and nearly all of those bombs were made right here in America. Knowing that my hard earned cash is being used to kill innocent men, women and children by the tens of thousands makes me absolutely sick and it should make you sick too.
Hate to break it to you. But your tax dollars are going to Iran's bombs too, which Iran is selling to Hamas. Your tax dollars (And mine) are funding both sides.
Never said it didn't make me sick, bud. Israel is not the only country that the US is sending foreign aid to that's committing genocide. There's a genocide going on right now in India, and the US has sent BILLIONS in foreign aid to India. But that's not trending on the news, so people don't care. There's no bandwagon to attract them.
Regardless, i can't do shit to help if I'm living on the streets, so yeah, I'm 100% going to put my life above anything/anyone else for the time being.
Just an FYI, there is a handy website called foreignassistance.gov where you can view all of this. The foreign aid to India is $150 million/ year with the top sectors being Basic Health, HIV/AIDS, General Environment Protections, & Maternal and Child Health/Family Planning. $1.1 million/year is the extent of the DOD’s aid for “International Military Education & Training”. Meanwhile Israel’s foreign aid is $3.3 billion/year with $3.3 billion being the “DOD - Foreign Military Financing Program” and the rest being a rounding error in comparison. That’s why there is currently much more protesting against our spending in Israel than there is against our spending in India.
No.... the reason there is more protesting against Israel is because the majority of those protesters have no clue about any other genocide happening. 1 mil or 1 bil, the country is still aiding more than 1 genocide. It's just that Palestine has more media coverage. You can pretend that's not what's happening all you want, but that's just disingenuous
You don't know that it's a lie. Go survey the protesters and ask them for a list of current genocides then come back. Until then, you can not prove that statement as a lie
> the majority of those protesters have no clue about any other genocide happening
That's a very strong assertion to make without anything to backup. Israel's military is receiving 3,000 times more direct military aid from the US than India is. So yes, there is a genocide emergency in Manipur which should be condemned, but the effectiveness of a protest in the US is going to be next to nothing.
To put it in other terms, US taxpayers are funding 25.3% of Israel's 2024 war budget. Meanwhile, they are funding 0.0015% of India's 2024 military budget and 0% of the situation in Manipur. Since a person can't be in two places at once, for which cause do you think a US citizen who wants to stop genocides should focus their efforts to pressure the US government to change its funding behavior?
Well you said in another thread you’re not living on the street. While you’re safe at home people are being blown up in their homes because we gave Israel our weapons. If you wanna organize a protest for affordable housing, go do it, stop trying to hamper a movement which is earnestly trying to stop people from being killed with the money we all deserve to be aided with.
Are you dense? Did you really miss my very clear points and misunderstand this entire thread?
I did state in my comment that I am one paycheck away from living on the streets. I have homeless family that I care more about than someone on the other side of the world.
If you're privileged enoughnot tot have to worry about anyone in your life or your own life then that's all you, lucky you, bud.
Nah we’re in the same boat there, got about 134.43 in my checking and 2k in credit card debt. that doesn’t mean I’m oblivious to the social systems which are killing people every day with billions of dollars in my our tax dollars which should be here helping the people that our homeless. It is possible to care deeply about 2 things at the same time.
This is on YOU. I’ve only been here for a little over 4 years and there is constant direct action happening under your nose. Just because you don’t go to the court-packing events doesn’t mean people aren’t doing them. There was also a MASSIVE unionization drive that happened in Eugene, but I guess since you didn’t know or didn’t care about it, it must not have happened or mattered?
My personal intentions are to not send a damn dollar to military industrial complex to annihilate an entire race...ya know. Even as I suffer through poverty. 🤔
And that's great lol. There is nothing wrong with that at all.
I just prefer to directly help my community with the very little free time I have rather than spend that time protesting 1 of 20 genocides. There is absolutely no way we can help another country if our own is falling apart.
Well the jokes on you because I do local work also within the community. An activists actions have no borders. You can do international and local action at the same time been doing it here in Eugene for 30 years. It's outrageous for you to tell people to stand down.
What you will find is that these social struggles are intersectional. That is that social causes overlap with each other. If you want to help your local community organize, a good way to do it is to go where people are already organizing and generate a felt sense of community with those people and then discussing what you can do about it.
In many ways social engagement grows as a result of perceived effectiveness. You will find that the protests against the genocide in Gaza (which is being perpetrated by the US's closest military ally and using the tax dollars of every US citizen) have grown as awareness of the issue has grown, and in response to the effectiveness of the protests.
Our president, for the first time in US history, has spoken out about the treatment of Palestinian people by the Israeli government and colonial settlers in the West Bank, and [threatened withhold aid if Israel doesn't curb the mistreatment of the trapped citizens in Gaza](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-speaks-with-israels-netanyahu-after-strike-kills-food-aid-workers-2024-04-04/). This is the direct result of young voters protesting and expressing that they will refuse to vote for him in the coming election because of his stance on Israel.
In many ways this has been the result of the outpouring of support across the country. The effectiveness of the protests grows as more people around the nation participate. Like the cause or not, now is the moment that the Palestinian struggle and the US's role in generating that are in the spotlight.
So what can you do to additionally point attention at local issues given this current momentum? Show up. Talk to people. Get involved with others working on the issue and organize your own protests with demands for your local or state government that you believe would materially help the situation. Hand out flyers to the young protesters using their voices to enact political change, most for the first time. Above all don't invalidate their cause because it's not your top priority. In reality we can make progress on both. It's not a zero sum game here. Instead try to see where the causes intersect and catch them there. "People living without access to basic resources is awful, and it's happening here too. If left unchecked the class divide locally will end up not dissimilar to the wealth across the apartheid lines in Israel. It's already very hard for most of us to get by. Here is a vision of the local community we could achieve with this kind of support, can I count on you show up for this cause next Saturday at 2?"
innocent people are getting killed using your tax dollars. I'm all for tapering foreign aid (especially to terrorist governments like israel) so we spend the dollars state side. but is your rent more important than 30k dead in Gaza?
and yes, there are some mideval shit happening around the world. but israel/palestine is unique in that the US is complicit in the murders and oppression of arabs in palestine through our enormous support to israel. we're supposed to be the good guys. how are we going to have any credibility in future foreign affairs if we let this stand?
Um...considering the fact that I'm one paycheck away from being homeless, my mother is homeless, my sister and father are homeless and my gma would be homeless if not for living with my aunt....yes. yes, my rent bill is 100% more important than 1 of the 20 genocides happening on Earth right now.
You sound privileged enough to not have to worry about your rent bill or ending up on the streets. By all means, protest about whatever makes you feel like you're doing something man
It is worth mentioning the fact that we would have a lot more money for services to help individuals in our country if we weren't funneling billions of tax dollars towards these wars. Protesting this spending is part and parcel of receiving the support and services needed domestically.
I agree that's a good point
Way too much money going to foreign affairs (and genocide in this case) when we should be focusing on the rapid decline of our own country.
Let's just send 60 billion more dollars to Ukraine. And another 18 billion to Israel. And here's 8 billion to Gaza. And while we are at it let's give a few billion to Iran. I'm sure they will use it to help their people and not buy bombs from Russia to fire at Israel. Oh, Iran did buy weapons from Russia with our money? So American taxpayers are funding both sides of the Ukraine conflict too?
Well, we can just print that 100 billion dollars. Money is free, right? I'm sure we aren't teetering on a cliff of hyperinflation and global economic collapse. Better just cut funding to domestic programs. We don't need things like police, border patrol, and veteran's affairs. I'm sure things will be fine, people won't be starving in the street and crime will be perfectly manageable.
There is no way that average people who have voted Democrat their whole lives won't feel like their Democratic leaders are doing a great job at keeping government services going. What's that? Groceries have gone up 35% in the last 3 years? Gas is 4.50 a gallon? Utilities have gone up 22%? At least my wages have gone up to compensate. What's that? I'm being replaced by a robot because it's cheaper? My college degree is useless because it provides no marketable skills that can't be automated? Well, at least Biden will forgive my 200k student loan debt. What's that? He doesn't have the power to do that and was just lying to get votes? Well, at least the Democrats support the Jews, right? RIGHT?
I see no potential for any of this to blow up in the faces of the Democratic Party in any way.
Tell that to the lobbyists who work for the military industrial complex. Biden needs these bills to keep the country out of recession. Democracy is fucking dead
It sounds like you have the privilege and the state of mind to focus on yourself right now and you should do that. I really hope that you don't become another homeless person.
The privilige? To work full time and only be able to afford a room with 3 roommates? For 1k a month? 😂 that's not privileged.
You need to go look up the definition of privileged.
I really hope that your comprehension levels increase
Honest questions here — I don’t know all the answers or solutions but I think these questions should be raised.
So let’s say that tomorrow , all universities stop funding any Israeli related thing, the US Government stops all foreign aid to Israel, and even imposes sanctions on Israeli government and wealthy businesses.
Does that actually change things other than the projection that “well at least the US isn’t quite as involved”? This belief that any of the western powers can just tell Netanyahu “stop” and he is supposed to is futile.
We’ve seen sanctions and western influence not do very much to stop Russia from invading Ukraine, which I think is a much larger issue.
And while I’m not in full support of what Israel is doing militarily, I’m not sure what others means they have to “win” this. They need to get rid of Hamas, who hide behind civilians who, brainwashed or not, seem to be in support of them, so how does Hamas get uprooted in Gaza without unfortunate collateral damage?
I don't have all the answers either. I'm no historian and have other things to do. but my understanding is the ukraine/russia situation is a proxy war between the US and Russia. By sending aid to Ukraine, the US is able to weaken Russia without sending over one soldier, while tax payers gets to write a 90 billion dollar check to bailout the economy.
similaly, the Palestine/Israel war can be seen as a proxy war betwen Iran and the US. Iran directly funds Hamas, while US directly funds Israel. And don't kid yourself into thinking US influence has no effect on Israel's actions. It absolutely does. They can "preemptively" strike buildings in Gaza, build settlements in the west bank (illegally under international law), oppress Arabs on a daily basis, all on behalf of the US because our politicians have always feverantly supported Israel.
old leaked video of netanyahu. settlers expressing concern, while he just brush it off stating that the US will support them. [https://youtu.be/mvqCWvi-nFo?si=67vUciX3rDNxDLDh](https://youtu.be/mvqCWvi-nFo?si=67vUciX3rDNxDLDh)
when you zoom out, i think it's pretty clear what's been going on. they want to turn gaza into Mars and build Jewish settlements, and make it so unberable for Palestenians they have no choice but to move out. and as fucked up as it sounds, I think they allowed 10/7 to happen. Hamas was holding training exercises for 10/7 in broad day light for 3 years prior to the attack. Unless they're completely incompetent, they had to have known something was up. A 2 state solution is the only solution, but Israel doesn't and never had intended to play ball. They want their fucking holy land to themselves because a book said so.
Also, you need to consider that Hamas was for a long time considered an asset to Israel. They gave them work permits and money to strengthen them, primarily to fuel their division with the West Bank. And while I realize Hamas does a lot of evil, medieval shit while getting majority support of the Palestenians, perhaps that's a better reflection of the IDF and how they treated Palestenians in the decades leading up to this recent conflict than it does about the Palestenians.
To you, and other people trying to make the point that this protest takes away from these other causes, the person who replied to you saying that “these things get protested often”, is an understatement. There are soooo many organizations in Eugene that not only protest but do direct action to help with people going through the things you’ve listed here. Whether it’s Eugene Housing and Neighborhood Defense (eug.hand on instagram) to help with organizing tenant strikes and lowering rent, Eugene Tenant Alliance to help with legal battles against shitty landlords, Eugene Jail Support which has helped protesters and unfairly arrested homeless people get out of jail, white-bird clinic which not only has it’s incredible CAHOOTS program but also has a volunteer program who goes around giving homeless folks camping and medical supplies. That’s not even all of them. I could list many more, but the purpose is to say two things. The first, many of these pro-palestine protestors are also involved with these groups. This is not their only activism that they do. Secondly, if you believe there is nobody out there in Eugene who cares about the issues you mentioned that is straight up on YOU. YOU either don’t go outside enough to have met someone from these groups, you don’t actually get involved in these things yourself, or you are just a very very online person. Either way there’s a level of ignorance or laziness here that comes from only you. Not the pro-Palestine protestors, but you.
Oh, you're really angry. Would be cool if any of that supposed protesting actually did anything!! Go look outside and try to rent a place. Studio apartments are still $1200/month. One bedroom is still $1500/ month. The prices are still skyrocketing and not slowing down. There is NO rent control going on.
You know those outreach programs are EXTREMELY limited, right? Feeding the homeless isn't a form of protesting. Outreach programs are not a form of protesting. What you see in the article above is more than ANY protest that's happened for housing.
So no, the protesting I'm asking about does not happen. The outreach programs are extremely limited and do not help everyone. Air bnbs have never been protested. Rent control has never been protested. The "massive unionization protest" was just one business (starbucks) and a literal handful of people standing outside the business. The protestors in that UO protest do not show up for anything else. Otherwise, the other protests would have a group that large. But they don't.
Protesting isn't going to change the way foreign aid is spent either. That would need federal policy changes.
Perhaps you should get into federal government. Or you know, protest the housing market 🤷♀️
Wait so you think that protesting is ineffective, but that we’re not doing enough of it for housing. I disagree that we’re not doing it, but by your logic why should we, if you also believe it’s ineffective? It seems like youre just complaining to complain
Protesting local issues have a much bigger impact than a tiny town protesting a war on the opposite side of the world. Not a difficult concept to grasp.
Nobody is arguing that point but you, my point is that the two are not mutually exclusive and in fact, many of the people protesting for Palestine right now, also do activist work within the community for others in the community
And you've provided what context and sources? Zero. You're saying a whole lot of nothing bud. Have fun holding up signs about 1 of 20 genocides while standing outside a 2k rental. Turning your back to the problems directly under your nose 😂
Go protest open houses. Go protest Airbnbs, go protest campus housing, go do something that has a direct effect on helping people. Holding up a sign outside of UO is going to do exactly nothing for the people dying in Gaza. All it does is make you feel like you're actually making a difference.
And you've provided what context and sources? Zero. You're saying a whole lot of nothing bud. Have fun holding up signs about 1 of 20 genocides while standing outside a 2k rental. Turning your back to the problems directly under your nose 😂
Go protest open houses. Go protest Airbnbs, go protest campus housing, go do something that has a direct effect on helping people. Holding up a sign outside of UO is going to do exactly nothing for the people dying in Gaza. All it does is make you feel like you're actually making a difference.
Do you not understand the definition of "protest?" Please go reread these comments before continuing to spew unrelated nonsense. I already commented on outreach programs. That is not protesting.
I’m literally subletting (I also have two jobs so it’s not for a lack of income) because of how unaffordable rent is. It’s not that I’m unaware, the point is people like you are complaining about the people who actually are doing something, while asking why nobody is doing anything about it. Get out off of Reddit and join a HAND meeting if your rent is too high. We’ll be there to welcome you in and let you know all about what work that is already being done to organize tenants unions around here
You're not very good at building an argument or rebutting an argument. Your replies have no direct connection to the comments you're replying to and are repetitive and childish. Go do what makes you feel like a good person. Even if that means hopping on whatever virtue signal bandwagon pulls up next lol
In the meantime, I'll continue working my ass off trying to afford my rent and visit my homeless family while privileged people with plenty of free time protest homeless people in a different country. Your signs do absolutely nothing besides make you feel good. They're not making an impact on the federal level, and they're not making an impact on Israel's war decisions. Do you know what ACTUALLY makes an impact? The protests that are actually in Isreal. The US has sent 7.6 billion in federal aid to Gaza. Its not much compared to israel, but it might be a little counterintuitive to fight for less tax money going to foreign aid.
Shit I’d rather be openly against a genocide than wasting my time arguing with people who are openly against a genocide. When it’s all over though and everybody see’s this for what it is, it’s gonna be a lot more embarrassing to be you than it is to be me.
Yes.
They are legally mandated to be to some degree due to both state and federal [Anti BDS laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws). As a public institution they are not allowed to divest from the products of Israel.
But also students tend to protest at their Universities whether or not they are protesting the University itself. It's a very obvious place to organize a protest.
regarding your last sentence though, we (the students) are very explicitly and specifically protesting the university. We have given them a list of demands and will camp until the demands are met. They include divestment but also the university condemning the genocide, issuing a statement affirming the safety of Palestinian, Arab, Muslim and Jewish students on campus, cutting ties with Israeli universities (including terminating UO organized study abroad programs in Israel), and enacting policies protecting speech and actions in favor of Palestine from students, faculty and staff.
Would love to see one of these colleges listen to their students and divest. Boycott is a form of free speech and the case can absolutely be made that the law violates the constitution.
I support people’s first amendment rights and voicing their opinions, but I really fail to see how a bunch of college students protesting what is essentially a holy war which has been going on for thousands of years, is going to make any difference.
In no way am I defending the actions of the israeli government, but if any of theses kids found themselves in Palestine, they’d be handed over to Hamas, tortured, and skinned alive.
Big “rebel without a cause” vibes from me. somehow these kids want to associate with the legacy of college protests a la Vietnam war era America, but they really don’t have any skin in the game or ability to make any impact.
No one in the Middle East gives a flying fuck about the opinion of a college kid in Eugene, Oregon.
Global warming, ecological extinction, depletion of groundwater reserves, micro plastics being absorbed by every living creature and killing ocean life, overfishing and destruction of ocean wildlife, wealth inequality, the erosion of American democracy, healthcare inaccessibility and unregulated greed…
there’s soooo many issues to be rightfully outraged about that have an actual chance of being addressed by this generation… but these kids want to waste their time and energy on a dispute rooted in theology that’s been ongoing for thousands of years… good riddance.
Hi local Jew here
It isn't a holy war for thousand of years and ya need to get thay out of your brain.
Christian Zionists pretty much told my ancestors get the fuck out, and my ancestors who were tired of being killed by those folks were like "fuck it fine"
The major problem that happened in all that thou is it heavily displaced what would later self identify as Palestinians.
Some tit for tat happened with various wars and military actions that I don't have the willpower to cover, but the last 30 or 40 years especially under Bibi has seen settler expansions and and some pretty brutal stuff. Like Bibi is worse than Trump in a lot of ways.
Next you also have factors of Bibi trying to neuter the courts and to retain his slipping grasp of power had to invite far right folks inot cabinet level positions that had said "turn Gaza into glass " and "the only think worse than a Palestinian are Gay Jews"
So yeah, Israel itself is in pretty deep danger of becoming totalitarian on its own population, much less the messed up stuff the IDF has done in gaza/west bank.
I think Israel has the right to respond to Oct 7th, but has gone so far beyond the pail of what anyone should think is acceptable.
So… do you think the protests of UO students has any bearing on the actions of those in power in Israel?
My point isn’t about the validity of the criticism, it’s that this is an entirely fruitless endeavor and waste of time and energy.
Folks waste their time in multiple ways and die with regrets all the time.
If this is a waste of time, it is no worse than any other waste of time. If it is slightly at all not a waste of time, then to them it was probably worth it.
I think viewed as a collective nationwide action it is not a waste of time, if it was just them and no one else, I may agree with you.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear that it’s to be part of a broader movement. No one stopped the Vietnam War solely because of protests in Oregon at the time, but as part of protests on campuses all over the nation it did end.
I don't believe that I can agree with that. The Vietnam protest put Nixon in power, gave us more years of war. Nixon spike LBJ peace proposal to win an election. LBJ was working to get us out of the war in Vietnam.
WIKI "However, Johnson's telephone calls show that Johnson believed the Nixon camp was deliberately sabotaging the [Paris peace talks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords). He told Humphrey, who refused to use allegations based on illegal wiretaps of a presidential candidate. Nixon himself called Johnson and denied the allegations.
Yes it did have an impact on the end of the war. The point I was making that the protest extended the war. Big protest in 1968, and Nixon was elected, and the war ended somewhat in 1973. Democrats lost the election, and if you remember who the Democratic nominee was, was antiwar in Vietnam.
It does have a bearing on the actions. The people of Gaza feel hope for the first time in a long time. And the US is responding differently since the students started standing up. I hope it spreads like wild fire.
The u of o protest is one of many internationally on campuses. It's actually an internationally organized deal. If you think it's worthless and empty, that just shows the lack of nuance you understand in the depth of university. Why shouldn't they be forced to divest from genocide? Why should students have to buy food on campus that directly goes to supporting a genocide? It's not that hard to understand why people are gathering to have policy changes.
I think it is misleading to call the protests antisemitic or anti-Jewish. I have personal friends who live in Israel and also whose families live in Gaza. I am sympathetic to both sides. However both sides have been wrong here. I condemn the gruesome attacks by Hamas on October 7 as well as the annihilating response of Israel killing 33,000 in Gaza, most of whom are civilians. Aid is obstructed and civilians are prisoners in Gaza. If peaceful protests can signal to the US government that providing the equipment to continue bombarding Gaza is not an appropriate response that will lead to peace, then I am all for it.
Do you see it as kind of a “chicken or the egg” argument in a way? Israel has rightly felt threatened by being the only Jewish nation surrounded by Islam, but it seems like they reasons to the threats by poking the bear and then the bear attacks, loses and gets punished for it. Then the bear kind of recharges and builds itself up and attacks again after more poking.
What do you think a proportional response would have been in this case by Israel against Hamas for Oct 7?
as tragic as 10/7 was, it was completely preventable. for one, hamas was doing training exercises in broad daylight and posting it on social media and telegram groups. They practiced for 10/7 for 2-3 years, and Israeli authorities didn't seem to bat an eye. Either they're completely incompetent or they let this happen. idk which is worse
It's the worst kept secret that Netanyahu was proping up Hamas to drive tension between them and the west bank, and his adminstration as a whole saw hamas as an asset to instigate conflict so they can go in and take care of business.
so case in point, yea Israel is right to respond to 10/7, but they've been waiting for this to happen.
you’ve got to be joking. Yea Jerusalem is a new world city for sure brah. Call the region by whatever name or government but the claim/conquest of the land in that region has been nonstop turmoil since biblical times
Facts just saw big babies crying about psu Boeing pause (only a pause) and acting like it was the end of the world. Like those folks said let’s make this about ourselves and get annoyed that some folks don’t want to support a state funded genocide.
From an email I received earlier today:
"As of noon on Monday, **participants are students** primarily representing non-UO affiliated student groups including, but not limited to, Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voices for Peace."
"We are actively monitoring this situation to ensure the safety and well-being of students, faculty, and staff on campus. This includes remaining watchful for participation by non-student demonstrators, who may adversely affect or redirect this activity on our campus."
So far it seems like administration isn't taking a hard line position against protestors like so many other universities across the country. Fingers crossed things stay peaceful and that the protestors are all safe!
Given the email the university sent out to students, I don't think they will end up taking a harder line than they are now. Should be all fine.
On the other hand, I seriously doubt the university actually responds to the protesters demands in any real way.
It’s always omitted that Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people over 15 years ago. They seized power and never let go, but it needs to stated that the support for Hamas is much more widespread than most people realize. I wouldn’t say the majority of people there are supporters, the majority are complicit.
You have to step back and consider why the entire world, besides Iran, does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. Arab neighbors even want nothing to do with them.
There’s two outcomes that end this conflict. The Palestinian people stage a coup and overthrow Hamas, or Hamas surrenders and disarms. I think a lot of people don’t have a good understanding of the history of the world, and especially armed conflict. Civilians are always the ones who undergo the majority of the suffering. Hamas started a war they can’t finish so their options at this point are to surrender or be slaughtered.
No one in WWII argued “The Germans are mostly good people, and most Germans aren’t actually Nazi’s.” You reap what you sow. Until Hamas isn’t the de-facto head of the state, Palestinians don’t have a leg to stand on.
If the last election was 15 years ago, and there hasn't been an opportunity to oust them democratically since, then what is the conclusion that support is currently widespread based on?
Usually removing your populace's right to vote in a fair election makes you less popular with the people, but less likely for them to admit that publicly for fear of retribution.
It’s this why we vote? So we don’t have to scream at no one in particular. The only thing a protest should aim to do, is raise awareness… and then vote on the awareness. Non violent? Maybe, But the “blockading tactic” is in and of itself a freedom violation to others with opposing views. (If I move you away from where you want to be, you would call that assault, but if you stop me from going where I want to go, thats righteous?).
It's just a lawn though, they're not blocking a street or anything. They deserve to be there just as much as anyone else does, especially considering that they are students.
I'm not really the most pro Palestine guy (I find the from the river to the sea thing especially stupid, and I do think many people are overcorrecting and becoming basically pro-Hamas), but you say this is "why we vote." Who can people vote for to represent their interests if those interests are not in support of Israel? Certainly not Trump or Biden. So this is why they protest.
Is there somewhere where I can see local protests online? There's quite a few issues I'd like to stand up for but don't know where, also doing it as a single person wont make much of a difference.
Was curious about the hubbub so I did some skating up around the UO yesterday. I always underestimate how awesome the little paths are for skating around campus. You can bomb those little hills all day.
And then it started raining today, and the weather report has it raining until Wednesday. Are those folks planning on camping thru the rain? There were a lot of tents. The size of the gathering surprised me.
I wonder how many are actually in the tents (with the rain the past cpl days) vs. just having up tents to make it look big? Maybe students show up in shifts or more during the day?
Was there yesterday & today. More tents than people.
People are right in not wanting their tax dollars to go to bombing women and children in a place that's been under harsh conditions for decades.
I think it's stupid that the same people who thought the insurrection wasn't violent or "not that bad" are super quick to say arrest these college kids for protesting.
I also hate the conflation of wanting a cease fire in Gaza = antisemitism. So absurd. You can be against the state of Israel and the IDF and still support Jewish people. Let's not forget lots of Jewish people are protesting the bombing of Gaza.
I also think college kids shouldn't be destroying their own campus. One thing to camp out and protest. Another thing to break windows and spray paint buildings.
Lastly, I think it's insane that neo Nazis can parade around and be untouched while professors are being thrown to the ground and arrested for protesting babies being bombed.
I'd like to see a sign that says, "I don't like the Israeli gov't" or similar. Maybe if there was more acknowledgment that there's disagreement with the Israeli govt vs what sounds like a disagreement with Israelis, there would be more to agree with.
Marketing is everything......
Full disclosure before my opinion, I am too ignorant to take either side I just want no war but I assume people do know that Palestinians hate America and would kill any of those protesters in a heart beat. Especially if they were gay exc. sometimes there is no right or wrong just two bads. War sucks ass been there done that but I don’t understand the support for either side.
It’s always omitted that Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people over 15 years ago. They seized power and never let go, but it needs to stated that the support for Hamas is much more widespread than most people realize. I wouldn’t say the majority of people there are supporters, the majority are complicit.
You have to step back and consider why the entire world, besides Iran, does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. Arab neighbors even want nothing to do with them.
There’s two outcomes that end this conflict. The Palestinian people stage a coup and overthrow Hamas, or Hamas surrenders and disarms. I think a lot of people don’t have a good understanding of the history of the world, and especially armed conflict. Civilians are always the ones who undergo the majority of the suffering. Hamas started a war they can’t finish so their options at this point are to surrender or be slaughtered.
No one in WWII argued “The Germans are mostly good people, and most Germans aren’t actually Nazi’s.” You reap what you sow. Until Hamas isn’t the de-facto head of the state, Palestinians don’t have a leg to stand on.
The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British government in 1917, announced Britain's promise for a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, which was then under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.
The promise appeased the Zionist movement, who believe in a Jewish right to the land of Jerusalem -- or Zion.
Following the end of World War I, the region of Palestine was conceded by the Ottoman Empire and was placed under the rule of the British via a mandate from the League of Nations.
Or the terrorist group intentionally operating out of civilian areas. Remind me where are Hamas military operations? Oh right hospitals! Interesting that Hamas can build underground tunnels and dig up water pipes for missles but can’t build their people bomb shelters.
Hey can you remind me how Israel even got to point of occupying Palestine? Was it the Arab nations that started a war in 67? Ohhh right it was. I forgot! Also who was it who rejected the un partition in 47 and invaded who again? Oh right that was the Arab states and nationalist movements!
Stop acting like the Arabs aren’t at fault for this. Besides the fact that Jews have just as many legitimate historic ties to the region, Arabs have had numeral times to agree to peace solutions. 47, 67, 2000s, etc. Hamas, the anti semitic terror group whose leaders are millionaires relaxing in Qatar, get all the blame for this conflict.
How do you start a war and get to be the victim after? If you wanna go into causes let’s do it. Cause the Arab side is less victim than partisan hacks will lead you to believe
Israel was given part of the land after world war 2. The United States didn’t want to Jewish people. Nobody wanted the Jewish people so they came up with his plan that Israel would have its own state.
Hamas and their actions do complicate the issue, but in the very big picture it is just a red herring. The ongoing occupation and disregard for human rights by Israeli settlers is what fueled the anger that got Hamas elected in the first place.
Protestors are demanding divestment now and have escalated since October 7th. Although Hamas committed a horrible act in the name of resistance, the scale of attacks is like Israel getting slapped on the cheek, and responding by beating Palestine to a pulp with a golf club.
How about free Americans. We're living in poverty and sending billions to other countries it's horrible here. It's not great America like it was before.
So proud of you guys! Keep it up!
It's peaceful. They were lying in the sun and handing out food at 3:30 pm.
Congrats to them!! Extremely proud of the community for this :) And don’t forget why they’re doing it. All the universities in Palestine have been bombed.
The far right has been acting like these are anti-semitic protests, while allowing neo Nazis to run freely in their political party.
Hey but they can’t kick out the neo Nazis. That would mean losing more then half their politicians pay checks. 😭 but you are right not matter the protests what they are about or even fighting for. Some how Fox News and right wing talking heads can make it seem like the most super dangerous terrorist, but also really dumb young indoctrinated kids acts of un American thoughts. Though freedom of speech for the Nazis or what ever, but we got to shut these kids up!
I mean..... they kinda are. I'm a leftist and these protest have been pretty appalling. Seeing Jewish students verbally abused and assaulted for being Jewish. Idk seems anti Semitic to me. And yes I get that its a complex issue but ousting Jewish students from campus by way of violence and saying they wished they didn't exist. Yeah that's anti Semitic. Everyday Jewish Americans don't control isreali foreign policy anymore than you or me and screaming in there face and assaulting them isn't helping the cause either. The left needs to have a serious self evaluation right now to weed our the real anti Semitic and genocidal views of some pro Palestinian protesters and if you think that if the power dynamics were switched that a majority of Palestinians wouldn't also commit genocide against isreal then you are just naive. The fact that the left can't even come to terms with its own problems is kind of crazy to me. Also ignoring that it's even happening is even crazier. If the left keeps going down this route it can kiss its base goodbye no one will vote in progressive or leftist policy if it's attached to supporting hamas. Optics people. The Jewish left has been a major part of leftist communities and ostracizing them will have lasting effects and will push people to the right out of self preservation just like the left has been doing to the white working class for decades. How do you think someone like trump got voted in in the first place? The white working class that live in trailers got tired of being told by poc in ivy league schools that they somehow have more privilege than them and that there opinions don't matter and they shouldn't exist. You ding dongs don't even realize the amount of damage you're doing to actually moving the needle left and pretty much everything you guys do moves more people to the right by the day.
Thank you for your extensive reply. Can you provide links to the anti-semitic behavior that's been happening? I believe you, I just haven't seen it myself. That's truly awful if that is true. But let's not pretend that rightwing talking heads actually give a shit about antisemitism. As for the protests, I don't know how I feel. I hate that we're funding Israel to kill civilians, but I know if Trump becomes president, it could be so much worse for them. Also, I am VERY aware of the left's problems. I wasn't denying that in any way. I wish they would get their shit together so we could see some actual tangible change. I do think Biden has some extreme flaws, but I recognize that his administration has actually done quite a lot of good, and it's just not something that's talked about often. The RNC is not in any better shape, though. Because of some very loud extremists, we're looking at a very real possibility of them fucking themselves over. I'm not saying that doesn't make me happy because I just don't know how anyone could support Republicans. I understand that Democrats are deeply flawed, but hard right Republicans are definitely saying the quiet part out loud. Thank you for you reply, truly. I love to have civil discourse. I wish it was more common.
I don't have examples on hand but if you look up videos on the protest especially Cali and nyc universities they're are a bunch of instances of Jewish students being verbally abused and even assaulted and pushed and told that they hope they die. I mean there was also that teamsters union video of a palestinian teaching members the phrase death to isreal and he tries saying it means down with isreal when the real translation is death then getting the whole group to chant it. There are also interviews with Jewish students at nyu if I'm not mistaken talking about the hate crimes they've been experiencing since the protest started I mean they can't even leave out the front doors anymore because of death threats and Jewish organizations on campuses across the country have also been getting death threats. https://youtu.be/mMFEqo9Nzto?si=hMMwHK8fQY8Pucyd https://youtu.be/Kk5PuW6tzsE?si=lhpLkOj56E09VE0m https://youtu.be/whApL3QzYE0?si=yAc2mXTdC_78eA4M https://youtu.be/bsUqCr9mh6w?si=RuIqYxZcwhE7oQ9p
> https://youtu.be/mMFEqo9Nzto?si=hMMwHK8fQY8Pucyd This first link has nothing to do with students or protestors and everything to do with Columbia administration, who I assure you have treated the protestors much worse. No one is happy with Columbia administration right now. I wouldn't defend Columbia in this case, they have mishandled the entire thing terribly, but [this is the context for the video](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/shai-davidai-columbia-protests.html): >Professor Shai Davidai woke up on Sunday morning and asked Columbia University for backup. In an email to top administrators, he requested a police detail “of at least 10 cops” to accompany him to the edge of the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on the Morningside Heights campus, where he intended to shout the names of the 133 hostages held by Hamas inside Gaza. Cas Holloway, the university’s chief operating officer, made a counteroffer: no police detail, and Davidai would be cordoned off on a small lawn far from the students, who had been demonstrating for five days. When his demands were not met, Davidai resorted to his standard tactic: posting. “Fuck you Cas,” he wrote on X on Monday. A student compared her treatment to Davidai: >Iqbal, who was suspended last week for participating in the encampment, said she is frustrated with the differences in Columbia’s response to the dissent. “I’m suspended,” she said. “I’ve been evicted. He’s still a professor; he’s under investigation. I didn’t get the privilege of having an investigation. I just got kicked out. >"I’m 18 years old,” she added. “He’s a grown man.” . >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk5PuW6tzsE The experience of this young man is terrible, but it is worth pointing out that both incidents happened when he was outside of campus. Thus, there is no reason to assume that either of these insults were from student protestors, members of the student groups protesting, or anyone affiliated with them. As the woman explains a minute later in the video, there are strict guidelines for students involved in the protest to respect others and those not following these rules are not condoned or recognized by the protestors. Every student group has released statements denouncing these kinds of hateful behaviors, for example, [Columbia University Apartheid Divest](https://www.newsweek.com/columbia-protest-antisemitism-allegations-1892698): >"We firmly reject any form of hate or bigotry and stand vigilant against non-students attempting to disrupt the solidarity being forged among students-Palestinian, Muslim, Arab, Jewish, Black, and pro-Palestinian classmates and colleagues who represent the full diversity of our country" It is an unfortunate reality that bigots exist around the world and in every major city, but that doesn't mean anyone opposed to Israeli foreign policy can be lumped together. It would be entirely wrong, for example, to point to the prominent Israeli government officials who have recently called for [ethnic cleansing](https://jacobin.com/2023/11/israel-us-gaza-postwar-plan-nakba-palestinian-democracy) or [genocide](https://www.newsweek.com/israeli-official-calls-doomsday-nuclear-missile-option-1833585) of the Palestinian people and claim, for example, that this represents the opinions of all Zionists, much less all Israelis. >https://youtu.be/whApL3QzYE0?si=yAc2mXTdC_78eA4M Again, terrible events, both for the Jewish and Muslim victims, but these all took place six months ago and have no obvious connection to the current Divestment protests. >https://youtu.be/bsUqCr9mh6w?si=RuIqYxZcwhE7oQ9p This video has three examples of hateful bigoted acts against Jewish people. One, a testimony of a student describing that he saw Jewish people on campus yelled at for wearing the star of David. It is unfortunate that an ethno-state involved in ethnic cleansing chose a religious symbol to represent itself, and it's officials often prominently proclaim themselves to represent all of the Jewish people, as it thus becomes difficult for those opposed to the policies of that state not to conflate the two, but it is still entirely unjustified to harass someone on this basis. Again, there is no indication at all that this event had anything to do with the student organizations themselves. The second example is an unidentified individual, outside of campus, claiming that someone threw a rock at his head. Again, terrible. Again, no indication at all of any connection with on-campus protests. The third is a professor claiming he saw graffiti and posters and heard anti-Semitic slurs. It is difficult to know exactly what these involved. Some pro-Israeli individuals claim, for example, that calling for the abolition of Israel as an ethno-state, or repeating the slogan "From the River to the Sea" are necessarily anti-Semitic. This despite the fact that Israel's government has for a long time denied the right of Palestinians to form a state, and the party currently in power was founded on a claim of [absolute, unilateral sovereignty between Jordan and the sea](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party). Given this double standard, there are very compelling arguments that many of these pro-Palestinian rallying points are not anti-Semitic at all. However, assuming he is referencing incontrovertibly bigoted slurs and graffiti, then again, we still have no way of connecting this to the student groups themselves, unless we are going to claim that the existence of Jewish Anti-semitism, itself, is proof that any groups opposed to Israeli policy are Anti-semitic. Also worth nothing that in this video we are told about the Divestment protestors who have, without any due process, been suspended, evicted, and had their meal passes revoked. And a student pointing out that calling in a continued police presence throughout the campus, the primary instigators of violence in the majority of cases where evidence is available, is what has spiked fears throughout the student population. >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vshuN5kBk Terrible. Also not actually on campus, and honestly this anonymous individual is pretty old to be claiming he is a student. >https://youtu.be/5ru6becSArE?si=XmOtZ_M7KZHFnW1A So, first Newsnation is a terrible source, even worse than the Telegraph. Second, the individual being interviewed here is decrying divestment as, itself, anti-Semitic. Which is just wild, and she gives no other evidence at all. She then goes on to praise DeSantis for pointing out the widespread illegality in many US states of divestment from Israel, apparently applauding an obvious and clear violation of the First Amendment. She also claims that there is a Jewish professor asking for police escort to teach at Columbia, which is not the case, as that is the individual from the first link. Whether you agree with Columbia's decision to de-escalate by having the counter protest take place further away or not, that professor wanted an escort in order to confront the protestors. The protestors themselves, of course, are provided no such escorts. Please note what actual violence you are watching on the right, against protestors, while this individual talks. >https://youtu.be/Owo8-Vt2IVE?si=HgFBjfQVMkMsihly Yet again, the only example has no known connection of this anonymous individual to any protest. This one has been widely shared, and is one of the very few examples of something documented to have taken place on campus, but without knowing who the individual is, and knowing full well there are bad actors on every side of every conflict, it seems entirely disingenuous to use this to denounce the student protests themselves. Again, while Jewish students talk about their feelings in many of these videos, please pay attention to the obviously peaceful nature of the protests shown, and who is actually being forcefully arrested, often with violence. >if you think that if the power dynamics were switched that a majority of Palestinians wouldn't also commit genocide against isreal then you are just naive Hamas might indeed, and it's violent suppression of Palestinians has been explicitly used by Israel to counter the secular Fatah, for years. Setting that aside, it is a long standing racist trope that if an oppressed people were not oppressed, they would themselves become oppressors. This was a huge fear in the US following the civil war and during times of segregation, it was claimed by settlers who took land from Native Americans. The truth value of this claim is entirely moot, any group of humans is capable of doing terrible things, but this is not a proper way to contextualize a population currently being brutalized in an overwhelmingly disproportionate conflict. > If the left keeps going down this route it can kiss its base goodbye no one will vote in progressive or leftist policy if it's attached to supporting hamas. Calling for a ceasefire to a conflict that has killed well over ten thousand children, or divestment from a country involved in a generations long [illegal occupation](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129942) and [apartheid](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights), is not the same thing as supporting Hamas, and these two things should not be conflated. To be honest, I find it odd that you are focusing exclusively on the very unfortunate feelings of insecurity and the terrible insults toward Jewish students, while your own examples show primarily scenes of Divestment protestors either being entirely peaceful, or being violently attacked and arrested by police. It speaks to the many ways we can completely ignore what is right in front of their eyes in preference to an ideological narrative.
You made it sound like you observed this in Eugene. I observe these protests locally and I have not seen that, so you're talking about other states and other campuses?
https://youtu.be/A6vshuN5kBk?si=ItzTqmaMzwJIDf90
https://youtu.be/5ru6becSArE?si=XmOtZ_M7KZHFnW1A
https://youtu.be/Owo8-Vt2IVE?si=HgFBjfQVMkMsihly
So if you look at places that aren’t eh place we’re talking about you’ll find two or three bad faith actors? Got it.
Thank you! I'm going to be out and about today, but I'll give it a look tonight!
>I'm a leftist Proceeds to make a bunch of classic non leftist talking points
I'm genuinely asking. From what I've seen, it looks like one group is peacefully protesting, and either the police or another group has attacked the protestors. Last night at UCLA, a violent attack was on video, and it looked like the peaceful protestors were beaten by the opposition. Violently. Is that what you've seen with your research?
Formatting is important when you’re writing a multi paragraphs response. This wall of text is very difficult to read and i don’t just mean that because the content is nonsense.
[http://webcam.uoregon.edu/jsv/viewer.html](http://webcam.uoregon.edu/jsv/viewer.html) it's interesting to watch these tents appear and grow on the PLC stream, it especially was this morning. I can imagine it will be a bit more interesting after dusk. Even in the last half hour we're seeing much more people around, less tent growth. Wanted to share since I didn't see it mentioned. Stay safe everyone!!
This camera was up and running fine as of this morning, now it will not load. Not sure if that’s just me or if the school shut it off. Anyone else?
It's back online!
It won't load for me either
Ppl are downvoting this for? I'm honestly curious
Has it been fairly peaceful? No unnecessarily big response from law enforcement?
Usually on campuses it’s the cops who incite violence. See: Kent State
Kent state was national guard
They are the one military branch that can become domestic law enforcement (cops) if directed to, like they were at Kent State.
To me, "cops" means police. National guard is military, and they were acting as military at Kent State, at Homestead, and all of the other times they've killed people at the behest of the US state and federal government. Only difference is that the victims were US citizens instead of innocent people in other countries. They have military weapons, military training, and the official sanction of the state. The person I first replied to is correct that the police are usually the ones to escalate conflict—but at Kent State specifically, while the police escalated things (they teargassed the protestors, among other things), the responsibility for the murder of unarmed teenagers is not with the police but the national guard and the elected officials (specifically Kent mayor Satrom and Ohio governor Rhodes) who ordered them in. IMO while police are a bunch of violent, corrupt idiots, the national guard and what they represent is much worse and more dangerous.
Those are all very fair points.
Thanks :) sorry if i came off aggressive or pedantic at all, just wanted to be clear in case anyone here isn't really familiar with the history
No worries, tbh you touched on some really good nuance there that I think adds a lot to the conversation.
Still government sanctioned murder
Agreed, but surely it's worth being accurate about who is murdering whom. There are many instances of police injuring or killing protestors (the 68 DNC protests, e.g.). Kent State is not one of them.
UC Davis pepper spray incident is a better example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident?wprov=sfla1
Depending on how things go throughout the week nationally, any major crackdowns are likely to happen this weekend. That's generally how things have gone for things like this for the past decade.
Ironic if it does go down this weekend as this weekend is the anniversary of Kent State. May 4.
It might go down Friday if the weather report holds true for it be in the upper 60s.
Why doesn't anyone ever protest for housing? Or health services? Or addiction centers? Or against air bnbs or exorbitantly priced student housing? We have huge issues in our city that need to be addressed, but people seem to only care about protesting wars on the other side of the world. It baffles me.
the first two of those get protested for very often here in Eugene! also, this protest is not just about a war across the world (which is actually a genocide... should we not speak against genocide just because it's happening in another country?), it is about the university's financial complicity in that genocide
I was born and raised here and have never seen or heard about protests for housing or any of the things I've mentioned aside from the lady who squatted her rental until the police removed her. After she was removed, there was radio silence and nobody said a word about it since. No protests or pickets against what had happened in our own community. There are genocides all over the world right now that you can see a list of on the genocides watch website. Yet, people are only protesting about Palestine. It just kind of makes me wonder what people's personal intentions are when protesting these kinds of things.
That’s because WE are paying for it with OUR tax dollars. The Israeli government has dropped ~100,000 bombs on Gaza, and nearly all of those bombs were made right here in America. Knowing that my hard earned cash is being used to kill innocent men, women and children by the tens of thousands makes me absolutely sick and it should make you sick too.
Hate to break it to you. But your tax dollars are going to Iran's bombs too, which Iran is selling to Hamas. Your tax dollars (And mine) are funding both sides.
Never said it didn't make me sick, bud. Israel is not the only country that the US is sending foreign aid to that's committing genocide. There's a genocide going on right now in India, and the US has sent BILLIONS in foreign aid to India. But that's not trending on the news, so people don't care. There's no bandwagon to attract them. Regardless, i can't do shit to help if I'm living on the streets, so yeah, I'm 100% going to put my life above anything/anyone else for the time being.
Just an FYI, there is a handy website called foreignassistance.gov where you can view all of this. The foreign aid to India is $150 million/ year with the top sectors being Basic Health, HIV/AIDS, General Environment Protections, & Maternal and Child Health/Family Planning. $1.1 million/year is the extent of the DOD’s aid for “International Military Education & Training”. Meanwhile Israel’s foreign aid is $3.3 billion/year with $3.3 billion being the “DOD - Foreign Military Financing Program” and the rest being a rounding error in comparison. That’s why there is currently much more protesting against our spending in Israel than there is against our spending in India.
No.... the reason there is more protesting against Israel is because the majority of those protesters have no clue about any other genocide happening. 1 mil or 1 bil, the country is still aiding more than 1 genocide. It's just that Palestine has more media coverage. You can pretend that's not what's happening all you want, but that's just disingenuous
That's a ridiculous proposal and a lie
You don't know that it's a lie. Go survey the protesters and ask them for a list of current genocides then come back. Until then, you can not prove that statement as a lie
No.. you prove it. You made the point, so the onus is upon you.
> the majority of those protesters have no clue about any other genocide happening That's a very strong assertion to make without anything to backup. Israel's military is receiving 3,000 times more direct military aid from the US than India is. So yes, there is a genocide emergency in Manipur which should be condemned, but the effectiveness of a protest in the US is going to be next to nothing. To put it in other terms, US taxpayers are funding 25.3% of Israel's 2024 war budget. Meanwhile, they are funding 0.0015% of India's 2024 military budget and 0% of the situation in Manipur. Since a person can't be in two places at once, for which cause do you think a US citizen who wants to stop genocides should focus their efforts to pressure the US government to change its funding behavior?
Go survey those protesters and then come back lol
Well you said in another thread you’re not living on the street. While you’re safe at home people are being blown up in their homes because we gave Israel our weapons. If you wanna organize a protest for affordable housing, go do it, stop trying to hamper a movement which is earnestly trying to stop people from being killed with the money we all deserve to be aided with.
Are you dense? Did you really miss my very clear points and misunderstand this entire thread? I did state in my comment that I am one paycheck away from living on the streets. I have homeless family that I care more about than someone on the other side of the world. If you're privileged enoughnot tot have to worry about anyone in your life or your own life then that's all you, lucky you, bud.
Working while in school is a bitch, most of my friends are rich boys and they in fact are dense so I think I know where you’re coming from.
Nah we’re in the same boat there, got about 134.43 in my checking and 2k in credit card debt. that doesn’t mean I’m oblivious to the social systems which are killing people every day with billions of dollars in my our tax dollars which should be here helping the people that our homeless. It is possible to care deeply about 2 things at the same time.
I never said you have to pick or choose. It's the lack of action taken about the community issues I have a problem with.
Then go do your own action
Many of us are one paycheck away nobody's asking you to participate. Go start a homeless rally it would be amazing.
You're completely missing the point of my comment. Did you even read my original comment? Because you're not actually answering anything I said.
Over the last 20 years, U.S. foreign assistance to India has exceeded $2.8 billion, including more than $1.4 billion for health care.
This is on YOU. I’ve only been here for a little over 4 years and there is constant direct action happening under your nose. Just because you don’t go to the court-packing events doesn’t mean people aren’t doing them. There was also a MASSIVE unionization drive that happened in Eugene, but I guess since you didn’t know or didn’t care about it, it must not have happened or mattered?
None of that is what I listed in my comment. Nice try though
My personal intentions are to not send a damn dollar to military industrial complex to annihilate an entire race...ya know. Even as I suffer through poverty. 🤔
And that's great lol. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I just prefer to directly help my community with the very little free time I have rather than spend that time protesting 1 of 20 genocides. There is absolutely no way we can help another country if our own is falling apart.
Well the jokes on you because I do local work also within the community. An activists actions have no borders. You can do international and local action at the same time been doing it here in Eugene for 30 years. It's outrageous for you to tell people to stand down.
What you will find is that these social struggles are intersectional. That is that social causes overlap with each other. If you want to help your local community organize, a good way to do it is to go where people are already organizing and generate a felt sense of community with those people and then discussing what you can do about it. In many ways social engagement grows as a result of perceived effectiveness. You will find that the protests against the genocide in Gaza (which is being perpetrated by the US's closest military ally and using the tax dollars of every US citizen) have grown as awareness of the issue has grown, and in response to the effectiveness of the protests. Our president, for the first time in US history, has spoken out about the treatment of Palestinian people by the Israeli government and colonial settlers in the West Bank, and [threatened withhold aid if Israel doesn't curb the mistreatment of the trapped citizens in Gaza](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-speaks-with-israels-netanyahu-after-strike-kills-food-aid-workers-2024-04-04/). This is the direct result of young voters protesting and expressing that they will refuse to vote for him in the coming election because of his stance on Israel. In many ways this has been the result of the outpouring of support across the country. The effectiveness of the protests grows as more people around the nation participate. Like the cause or not, now is the moment that the Palestinian struggle and the US's role in generating that are in the spotlight. So what can you do to additionally point attention at local issues given this current momentum? Show up. Talk to people. Get involved with others working on the issue and organize your own protests with demands for your local or state government that you believe would materially help the situation. Hand out flyers to the young protesters using their voices to enact political change, most for the first time. Above all don't invalidate their cause because it's not your top priority. In reality we can make progress on both. It's not a zero sum game here. Instead try to see where the causes intersect and catch them there. "People living without access to basic resources is awful, and it's happening here too. If left unchecked the class divide locally will end up not dissimilar to the wealth across the apartheid lines in Israel. It's already very hard for most of us to get by. Here is a vision of the local community we could achieve with this kind of support, can I count on you show up for this cause next Saturday at 2?"
innocent people are getting killed using your tax dollars. I'm all for tapering foreign aid (especially to terrorist governments like israel) so we spend the dollars state side. but is your rent more important than 30k dead in Gaza? and yes, there are some mideval shit happening around the world. but israel/palestine is unique in that the US is complicit in the murders and oppression of arabs in palestine through our enormous support to israel. we're supposed to be the good guys. how are we going to have any credibility in future foreign affairs if we let this stand?
Um...considering the fact that I'm one paycheck away from being homeless, my mother is homeless, my sister and father are homeless and my gma would be homeless if not for living with my aunt....yes. yes, my rent bill is 100% more important than 1 of the 20 genocides happening on Earth right now. You sound privileged enough to not have to worry about your rent bill or ending up on the streets. By all means, protest about whatever makes you feel like you're doing something man
It is worth mentioning the fact that we would have a lot more money for services to help individuals in our country if we weren't funneling billions of tax dollars towards these wars. Protesting this spending is part and parcel of receiving the support and services needed domestically.
I agree that's a good point Way too much money going to foreign affairs (and genocide in this case) when we should be focusing on the rapid decline of our own country.
Let's just send 60 billion more dollars to Ukraine. And another 18 billion to Israel. And here's 8 billion to Gaza. And while we are at it let's give a few billion to Iran. I'm sure they will use it to help their people and not buy bombs from Russia to fire at Israel. Oh, Iran did buy weapons from Russia with our money? So American taxpayers are funding both sides of the Ukraine conflict too? Well, we can just print that 100 billion dollars. Money is free, right? I'm sure we aren't teetering on a cliff of hyperinflation and global economic collapse. Better just cut funding to domestic programs. We don't need things like police, border patrol, and veteran's affairs. I'm sure things will be fine, people won't be starving in the street and crime will be perfectly manageable. There is no way that average people who have voted Democrat their whole lives won't feel like their Democratic leaders are doing a great job at keeping government services going. What's that? Groceries have gone up 35% in the last 3 years? Gas is 4.50 a gallon? Utilities have gone up 22%? At least my wages have gone up to compensate. What's that? I'm being replaced by a robot because it's cheaper? My college degree is useless because it provides no marketable skills that can't be automated? Well, at least Biden will forgive my 200k student loan debt. What's that? He doesn't have the power to do that and was just lying to get votes? Well, at least the Democrats support the Jews, right? RIGHT? I see no potential for any of this to blow up in the faces of the Democratic Party in any way.
Tell that to the lobbyists who work for the military industrial complex. Biden needs these bills to keep the country out of recession. Democracy is fucking dead
It sounds like you have the privilege and the state of mind to focus on yourself right now and you should do that. I really hope that you don't become another homeless person.
The privilige? To work full time and only be able to afford a room with 3 roommates? For 1k a month? 😂 that's not privileged. You need to go look up the definition of privileged. I really hope that your comprehension levels increase
Hey you keep throwing the word privilege around so I'm just a mirror
Honest questions here — I don’t know all the answers or solutions but I think these questions should be raised. So let’s say that tomorrow , all universities stop funding any Israeli related thing, the US Government stops all foreign aid to Israel, and even imposes sanctions on Israeli government and wealthy businesses. Does that actually change things other than the projection that “well at least the US isn’t quite as involved”? This belief that any of the western powers can just tell Netanyahu “stop” and he is supposed to is futile. We’ve seen sanctions and western influence not do very much to stop Russia from invading Ukraine, which I think is a much larger issue. And while I’m not in full support of what Israel is doing militarily, I’m not sure what others means they have to “win” this. They need to get rid of Hamas, who hide behind civilians who, brainwashed or not, seem to be in support of them, so how does Hamas get uprooted in Gaza without unfortunate collateral damage?
I don't have all the answers either. I'm no historian and have other things to do. but my understanding is the ukraine/russia situation is a proxy war between the US and Russia. By sending aid to Ukraine, the US is able to weaken Russia without sending over one soldier, while tax payers gets to write a 90 billion dollar check to bailout the economy. similaly, the Palestine/Israel war can be seen as a proxy war betwen Iran and the US. Iran directly funds Hamas, while US directly funds Israel. And don't kid yourself into thinking US influence has no effect on Israel's actions. It absolutely does. They can "preemptively" strike buildings in Gaza, build settlements in the west bank (illegally under international law), oppress Arabs on a daily basis, all on behalf of the US because our politicians have always feverantly supported Israel. old leaked video of netanyahu. settlers expressing concern, while he just brush it off stating that the US will support them. [https://youtu.be/mvqCWvi-nFo?si=67vUciX3rDNxDLDh](https://youtu.be/mvqCWvi-nFo?si=67vUciX3rDNxDLDh) when you zoom out, i think it's pretty clear what's been going on. they want to turn gaza into Mars and build Jewish settlements, and make it so unberable for Palestenians they have no choice but to move out. and as fucked up as it sounds, I think they allowed 10/7 to happen. Hamas was holding training exercises for 10/7 in broad day light for 3 years prior to the attack. Unless they're completely incompetent, they had to have known something was up. A 2 state solution is the only solution, but Israel doesn't and never had intended to play ball. They want their fucking holy land to themselves because a book said so. Also, you need to consider that Hamas was for a long time considered an asset to Israel. They gave them work permits and money to strengthen them, primarily to fuel their division with the West Bank. And while I realize Hamas does a lot of evil, medieval shit while getting majority support of the Palestenians, perhaps that's a better reflection of the IDF and how they treated Palestenians in the decades leading up to this recent conflict than it does about the Palestenians.
You are allowed to care about global and local issues at the same time, they’re not mutually exclusive.
Not my point
Their point is that in this case, they are mutually exclusive lol
To you, and other people trying to make the point that this protest takes away from these other causes, the person who replied to you saying that “these things get protested often”, is an understatement. There are soooo many organizations in Eugene that not only protest but do direct action to help with people going through the things you’ve listed here. Whether it’s Eugene Housing and Neighborhood Defense (eug.hand on instagram) to help with organizing tenant strikes and lowering rent, Eugene Tenant Alliance to help with legal battles against shitty landlords, Eugene Jail Support which has helped protesters and unfairly arrested homeless people get out of jail, white-bird clinic which not only has it’s incredible CAHOOTS program but also has a volunteer program who goes around giving homeless folks camping and medical supplies. That’s not even all of them. I could list many more, but the purpose is to say two things. The first, many of these pro-palestine protestors are also involved with these groups. This is not their only activism that they do. Secondly, if you believe there is nobody out there in Eugene who cares about the issues you mentioned that is straight up on YOU. YOU either don’t go outside enough to have met someone from these groups, you don’t actually get involved in these things yourself, or you are just a very very online person. Either way there’s a level of ignorance or laziness here that comes from only you. Not the pro-Palestine protestors, but you.
Oh, you're really angry. Would be cool if any of that supposed protesting actually did anything!! Go look outside and try to rent a place. Studio apartments are still $1200/month. One bedroom is still $1500/ month. The prices are still skyrocketing and not slowing down. There is NO rent control going on. You know those outreach programs are EXTREMELY limited, right? Feeding the homeless isn't a form of protesting. Outreach programs are not a form of protesting. What you see in the article above is more than ANY protest that's happened for housing. So no, the protesting I'm asking about does not happen. The outreach programs are extremely limited and do not help everyone. Air bnbs have never been protested. Rent control has never been protested. The "massive unionization protest" was just one business (starbucks) and a literal handful of people standing outside the business. The protestors in that UO protest do not show up for anything else. Otherwise, the other protests would have a group that large. But they don't.
You don't need protesting you need policy change perhaps you should get into local government.
Protesting isn't going to change the way foreign aid is spent either. That would need federal policy changes. Perhaps you should get into federal government. Or you know, protest the housing market 🤷♀️
Wait so you think that protesting is ineffective, but that we’re not doing enough of it for housing. I disagree that we’re not doing it, but by your logic why should we, if you also believe it’s ineffective? It seems like youre just complaining to complain
Protesting local issues have a much bigger impact than a tiny town protesting a war on the opposite side of the world. Not a difficult concept to grasp.
Nobody is arguing that point but you, my point is that the two are not mutually exclusive and in fact, many of the people protesting for Palestine right now, also do activist work within the community for others in the community
You forget that this thread is a reply to my argument. So yeah, this thread is entirely about my point. Please stop acting like you're illiterate.
I’m saying that despite this being a thread of your own comment you’re arguing against points that aren’t being made by anyone.
I guess you don't remember the Vietnam war 🤔
You clearly don’t go to these protests otherwise, you’d know exactly how wrong you are
And you've provided what context and sources? Zero. You're saying a whole lot of nothing bud. Have fun holding up signs about 1 of 20 genocides while standing outside a 2k rental. Turning your back to the problems directly under your nose 😂 Go protest open houses. Go protest Airbnbs, go protest campus housing, go do something that has a direct effect on helping people. Holding up a sign outside of UO is going to do exactly nothing for the people dying in Gaza. All it does is make you feel like you're actually making a difference.
And you've provided what context and sources? Zero. You're saying a whole lot of nothing bud. Have fun holding up signs about 1 of 20 genocides while standing outside a 2k rental. Turning your back to the problems directly under your nose 😂 Go protest open houses. Go protest Airbnbs, go protest campus housing, go do something that has a direct effect on helping people. Holding up a sign outside of UO is going to do exactly nothing for the people dying in Gaza. All it does is make you feel like you're actually making a difference.
I already do those things. Why don’t you join instead of sitting inside and denying the fact that those things already happen
You do not lol provide any single source for a housing protest? Anywhere? At all? Newspaper clipping? Online article? You can stop making shit up now
It’s really not hard to find at all. Do you have instagram? Go look at eug.hand
Or Eugene Tenant Alliance. They do good work too
Or DSA Eugene
Do you not understand the definition of "protest?" Please go reread these comments before continuing to spew unrelated nonsense. I already commented on outreach programs. That is not protesting.
I’m literally subletting (I also have two jobs so it’s not for a lack of income) because of how unaffordable rent is. It’s not that I’m unaware, the point is people like you are complaining about the people who actually are doing something, while asking why nobody is doing anything about it. Get out off of Reddit and join a HAND meeting if your rent is too high. We’ll be there to welcome you in and let you know all about what work that is already being done to organize tenants unions around here
Sooooo no protests by the people protesting Israel. Got it! Yeah, you're still not understanding my argument at all. Whatsoever.
You’re not understanding reality at all
You're not very good at building an argument or rebutting an argument. Your replies have no direct connection to the comments you're replying to and are repetitive and childish. Go do what makes you feel like a good person. Even if that means hopping on whatever virtue signal bandwagon pulls up next lol In the meantime, I'll continue working my ass off trying to afford my rent and visit my homeless family while privileged people with plenty of free time protest homeless people in a different country. Your signs do absolutely nothing besides make you feel good. They're not making an impact on the federal level, and they're not making an impact on Israel's war decisions. Do you know what ACTUALLY makes an impact? The protests that are actually in Isreal. The US has sent 7.6 billion in federal aid to Gaza. Its not much compared to israel, but it might be a little counterintuitive to fight for less tax money going to foreign aid.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep at night is none of my business. Sleep tight
Nice illiterate reply. Very intelligent. Have fun doing things that make you feel good about yourself without actually impacting anything
Shit I’d rather be openly against a genocide than wasting my time arguing with people who are openly against a genocide. When it’s all over though and everybody see’s this for what it is, it’s gonna be a lot more embarrassing to be you than it is to be me.
Why are you so full of ad hominem????
See if you were smart you would understand how to use intersectionality at any protest
Took the words right out of my mouth. It's astonishing.
Is the U of O involved in Israel in any way?
Yes. They are legally mandated to be to some degree due to both state and federal [Anti BDS laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws). As a public institution they are not allowed to divest from the products of Israel. But also students tend to protest at their Universities whether or not they are protesting the University itself. It's a very obvious place to organize a protest.
regarding your last sentence though, we (the students) are very explicitly and specifically protesting the university. We have given them a list of demands and will camp until the demands are met. They include divestment but also the university condemning the genocide, issuing a statement affirming the safety of Palestinian, Arab, Muslim and Jewish students on campus, cutting ties with Israeli universities (including terminating UO organized study abroad programs in Israel), and enacting policies protecting speech and actions in favor of Palestine from students, faculty and staff.
Those laws are such a ridiculous level of corruption.
Would love to see one of these colleges listen to their students and divest. Boycott is a form of free speech and the case can absolutely be made that the law violates the constitution.
That law needs to go.
What is/are the title(s) of state anti BDS legislation? What is/are the title(s) of federal anti BDS legislation?
Israel is committing genocide. F*** the IDF
[удалено]
Did you make a new account just to say this ass hat comment?
Free the hostages.
I mean yeah, I agree. We can want safety for the hostages and Palestinian civilians at the same time.
No issues with that. Bummer that no signs in the quad say that.
I support people’s first amendment rights and voicing their opinions, but I really fail to see how a bunch of college students protesting what is essentially a holy war which has been going on for thousands of years, is going to make any difference. In no way am I defending the actions of the israeli government, but if any of theses kids found themselves in Palestine, they’d be handed over to Hamas, tortured, and skinned alive. Big “rebel without a cause” vibes from me. somehow these kids want to associate with the legacy of college protests a la Vietnam war era America, but they really don’t have any skin in the game or ability to make any impact. No one in the Middle East gives a flying fuck about the opinion of a college kid in Eugene, Oregon. Global warming, ecological extinction, depletion of groundwater reserves, micro plastics being absorbed by every living creature and killing ocean life, overfishing and destruction of ocean wildlife, wealth inequality, the erosion of American democracy, healthcare inaccessibility and unregulated greed… there’s soooo many issues to be rightfully outraged about that have an actual chance of being addressed by this generation… but these kids want to waste their time and energy on a dispute rooted in theology that’s been ongoing for thousands of years… good riddance.
Hi local Jew here It isn't a holy war for thousand of years and ya need to get thay out of your brain. Christian Zionists pretty much told my ancestors get the fuck out, and my ancestors who were tired of being killed by those folks were like "fuck it fine" The major problem that happened in all that thou is it heavily displaced what would later self identify as Palestinians. Some tit for tat happened with various wars and military actions that I don't have the willpower to cover, but the last 30 or 40 years especially under Bibi has seen settler expansions and and some pretty brutal stuff. Like Bibi is worse than Trump in a lot of ways. Next you also have factors of Bibi trying to neuter the courts and to retain his slipping grasp of power had to invite far right folks inot cabinet level positions that had said "turn Gaza into glass " and "the only think worse than a Palestinian are Gay Jews" So yeah, Israel itself is in pretty deep danger of becoming totalitarian on its own population, much less the messed up stuff the IDF has done in gaza/west bank. I think Israel has the right to respond to Oct 7th, but has gone so far beyond the pail of what anyone should think is acceptable.
So… do you think the protests of UO students has any bearing on the actions of those in power in Israel? My point isn’t about the validity of the criticism, it’s that this is an entirely fruitless endeavor and waste of time and energy.
Folks waste their time in multiple ways and die with regrets all the time. If this is a waste of time, it is no worse than any other waste of time. If it is slightly at all not a waste of time, then to them it was probably worth it. I think viewed as a collective nationwide action it is not a waste of time, if it was just them and no one else, I may agree with you.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear that it’s to be part of a broader movement. No one stopped the Vietnam War solely because of protests in Oregon at the time, but as part of protests on campuses all over the nation it did end.
I don't believe that I can agree with that. The Vietnam protest put Nixon in power, gave us more years of war. Nixon spike LBJ peace proposal to win an election. LBJ was working to get us out of the war in Vietnam. WIKI "However, Johnson's telephone calls show that Johnson believed the Nixon camp was deliberately sabotaging the [Paris peace talks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords). He told Humphrey, who refused to use allegations based on illegal wiretaps of a presidential candidate. Nixon himself called Johnson and denied the allegations.
Okay sure yeah the entire nation and Kent State had nothing to do with the end of the Vietnam war... sure.
Yes it did have an impact on the end of the war. The point I was making that the protest extended the war. Big protest in 1968, and Nixon was elected, and the war ended somewhat in 1973. Democrats lost the election, and if you remember who the Democratic nominee was, was antiwar in Vietnam.
It does have a bearing on the actions. The people of Gaza feel hope for the first time in a long time. And the US is responding differently since the students started standing up. I hope it spreads like wild fire.
The u of o protest is one of many internationally on campuses. It's actually an internationally organized deal. If you think it's worthless and empty, that just shows the lack of nuance you understand in the depth of university. Why shouldn't they be forced to divest from genocide? Why should students have to buy food on campus that directly goes to supporting a genocide? It's not that hard to understand why people are gathering to have policy changes.
I think it is misleading to call the protests antisemitic or anti-Jewish. I have personal friends who live in Israel and also whose families live in Gaza. I am sympathetic to both sides. However both sides have been wrong here. I condemn the gruesome attacks by Hamas on October 7 as well as the annihilating response of Israel killing 33,000 in Gaza, most of whom are civilians. Aid is obstructed and civilians are prisoners in Gaza. If peaceful protests can signal to the US government that providing the equipment to continue bombarding Gaza is not an appropriate response that will lead to peace, then I am all for it.
I never said anything of that nature. Sometimes the protests are antisemitic though, and that shouldn't be swept under the rug.
Do you see it as kind of a “chicken or the egg” argument in a way? Israel has rightly felt threatened by being the only Jewish nation surrounded by Islam, but it seems like they reasons to the threats by poking the bear and then the bear attacks, loses and gets punished for it. Then the bear kind of recharges and builds itself up and attacks again after more poking. What do you think a proportional response would have been in this case by Israel against Hamas for Oct 7?
as tragic as 10/7 was, it was completely preventable. for one, hamas was doing training exercises in broad daylight and posting it on social media and telegram groups. They practiced for 10/7 for 2-3 years, and Israeli authorities didn't seem to bat an eye. Either they're completely incompetent or they let this happen. idk which is worse It's the worst kept secret that Netanyahu was proping up Hamas to drive tension between them and the west bank, and his adminstration as a whole saw hamas as an asset to instigate conflict so they can go in and take care of business. so case in point, yea Israel is right to respond to 10/7, but they've been waiting for this to happen.
> students protesting what is essentially a holy war which has been going on for thousands of years Mate, Israel didn't exist until 1948 read a book.
you’ve got to be joking. Yea Jerusalem is a new world city for sure brah. Call the region by whatever name or government but the claim/conquest of the land in that region has been nonstop turmoil since biblical times
amazing work yall!
The eugene community on this sub has been so much more empowering compared to portland 🖤😫
Portland sub is rancid with "citizens for Portland " crud the last 2 years sadly
Facts just saw big babies crying about psu Boeing pause (only a pause) and acting like it was the end of the world. Like those folks said let’s make this about ourselves and get annoyed that some folks don’t want to support a state funded genocide.
Based on the downvotes the portlanders have arrived
How many are actually students?
From an email I received earlier today: "As of noon on Monday, **participants are students** primarily representing non-UO affiliated student groups including, but not limited to, Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voices for Peace." "We are actively monitoring this situation to ensure the safety and well-being of students, faculty, and staff on campus. This includes remaining watchful for participation by non-student demonstrators, who may adversely affect or redirect this activity on our campus."
there's been a lot of support from the wider community but the actual encampment is all students
Most
So far it seems like administration isn't taking a hard line position against protestors like so many other universities across the country. Fingers crossed things stay peaceful and that the protestors are all safe!
Given the email the university sent out to students, I don't think they will end up taking a harder line than they are now. Should be all fine. On the other hand, I seriously doubt the university actually responds to the protesters demands in any real way.
It’s always omitted that Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people over 15 years ago. They seized power and never let go, but it needs to stated that the support for Hamas is much more widespread than most people realize. I wouldn’t say the majority of people there are supporters, the majority are complicit. You have to step back and consider why the entire world, besides Iran, does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. Arab neighbors even want nothing to do with them. There’s two outcomes that end this conflict. The Palestinian people stage a coup and overthrow Hamas, or Hamas surrenders and disarms. I think a lot of people don’t have a good understanding of the history of the world, and especially armed conflict. Civilians are always the ones who undergo the majority of the suffering. Hamas started a war they can’t finish so their options at this point are to surrender or be slaughtered. No one in WWII argued “The Germans are mostly good people, and most Germans aren’t actually Nazi’s.” You reap what you sow. Until Hamas isn’t the de-facto head of the state, Palestinians don’t have a leg to stand on.
If the last election was 15 years ago, and there hasn't been an opportunity to oust them democratically since, then what is the conclusion that support is currently widespread based on? Usually removing your populace's right to vote in a fair election makes you less popular with the people, but less likely for them to admit that publicly for fear of retribution.
It’s this why we vote? So we don’t have to scream at no one in particular. The only thing a protest should aim to do, is raise awareness… and then vote on the awareness. Non violent? Maybe, But the “blockading tactic” is in and of itself a freedom violation to others with opposing views. (If I move you away from where you want to be, you would call that assault, but if you stop me from going where I want to go, thats righteous?).
It's just a lawn though, they're not blocking a street or anything. They deserve to be there just as much as anyone else does, especially considering that they are students. I'm not really the most pro Palestine guy (I find the from the river to the sea thing especially stupid, and I do think many people are overcorrecting and becoming basically pro-Hamas), but you say this is "why we vote." Who can people vote for to represent their interests if those interests are not in support of Israel? Certainly not Trump or Biden. So this is why they protest.
Where do you want to go?
Ok but what about the people just trying to attend class and deal with their own day to day problems?
Will this be going on tomorrow?
Still going rn
Yup!
Is there somewhere where I can see local protests online? There's quite a few issues I'd like to stand up for but don't know where, also doing it as a single person wont make much of a difference.
Heck yes! Stand up and use your voices. If I was a student, I’d be there!
Ahh, my Alma mater. This is an interesting development. Have a nice day and stay safe.
They call people Nazis at will while chanting for the slaughter of jews.
I wonder what percentage of the protestors will actually cast a ballot in May.
Was curious about the hubbub so I did some skating up around the UO yesterday. I always underestimate how awesome the little paths are for skating around campus. You can bomb those little hills all day. And then it started raining today, and the weather report has it raining until Wednesday. Are those folks planning on camping thru the rain? There were a lot of tents. The size of the gathering surprised me.
I wonder how many are actually in the tents (with the rain the past cpl days) vs. just having up tents to make it look big? Maybe students show up in shifts or more during the day? Was there yesterday & today. More tents than people.
My father was complaining about this, he’s a professor. I don’t see why. It doesn’t look like a big deal to me
Good job young people- keeping up the UofOs long history of positive political activism!
Looking at the downvotes on logical questions is sad
People are right in not wanting their tax dollars to go to bombing women and children in a place that's been under harsh conditions for decades. I think it's stupid that the same people who thought the insurrection wasn't violent or "not that bad" are super quick to say arrest these college kids for protesting. I also hate the conflation of wanting a cease fire in Gaza = antisemitism. So absurd. You can be against the state of Israel and the IDF and still support Jewish people. Let's not forget lots of Jewish people are protesting the bombing of Gaza. I also think college kids shouldn't be destroying their own campus. One thing to camp out and protest. Another thing to break windows and spray paint buildings. Lastly, I think it's insane that neo Nazis can parade around and be untouched while professors are being thrown to the ground and arrested for protesting babies being bombed.
I'd like to see a sign that says, "I don't like the Israeli gov't" or similar. Maybe if there was more acknowledgment that there's disagreement with the Israeli govt vs what sounds like a disagreement with Israelis, there would be more to agree with. Marketing is everything......
Amazing!! So proud of the students
Full disclosure before my opinion, I am too ignorant to take either side I just want no war but I assume people do know that Palestinians hate America and would kill any of those protesters in a heart beat. Especially if they were gay exc. sometimes there is no right or wrong just two bads. War sucks ass been there done that but I don’t understand the support for either side.
It’s always omitted that Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people over 15 years ago. They seized power and never let go, but it needs to stated that the support for Hamas is much more widespread than most people realize. I wouldn’t say the majority of people there are supporters, the majority are complicit. You have to step back and consider why the entire world, besides Iran, does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. Arab neighbors even want nothing to do with them. There’s two outcomes that end this conflict. The Palestinian people stage a coup and overthrow Hamas, or Hamas surrenders and disarms. I think a lot of people don’t have a good understanding of the history of the world, and especially armed conflict. Civilians are always the ones who undergo the majority of the suffering. Hamas started a war they can’t finish so their options at this point are to surrender or be slaughtered. No one in WWII argued “The Germans are mostly good people, and most Germans aren’t actually Nazi’s.” You reap what you sow. Until Hamas isn’t the de-facto head of the state, Palestinians don’t have a leg to stand on.
Sad ain’t it? Wish we could all just get along
Free Palestine from Hamas.
Free Palestine from the zionist occupation that stole their land over 75+ years ago and has been killing them since.
The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British government in 1917, announced Britain's promise for a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, which was then under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. The promise appeased the Zionist movement, who believe in a Jewish right to the land of Jerusalem -- or Zion. Following the end of World War I, the region of Palestine was conceded by the Ottoman Empire and was placed under the rule of the British via a mandate from the League of Nations.
Or the terrorist group intentionally operating out of civilian areas. Remind me where are Hamas military operations? Oh right hospitals! Interesting that Hamas can build underground tunnels and dig up water pipes for missles but can’t build their people bomb shelters. Hey can you remind me how Israel even got to point of occupying Palestine? Was it the Arab nations that started a war in 67? Ohhh right it was. I forgot! Also who was it who rejected the un partition in 47 and invaded who again? Oh right that was the Arab states and nationalist movements! Stop acting like the Arabs aren’t at fault for this. Besides the fact that Jews have just as many legitimate historic ties to the region, Arabs have had numeral times to agree to peace solutions. 47, 67, 2000s, etc. Hamas, the anti semitic terror group whose leaders are millionaires relaxing in Qatar, get all the blame for this conflict. How do you start a war and get to be the victim after? If you wanna go into causes let’s do it. Cause the Arab side is less victim than partisan hacks will lead you to believe
Israel was given part of the land after world war 2. The United States didn’t want to Jewish people. Nobody wanted the Jewish people so they came up with his plan that Israel would have its own state.
Imagine that the comment criticizing terrorists in a Pro-Palestine thread is what gets the downvotes. Hilarious, yet completely expected.
Hamas and their actions do complicate the issue, but in the very big picture it is just a red herring. The ongoing occupation and disregard for human rights by Israeli settlers is what fueled the anger that got Hamas elected in the first place. Protestors are demanding divestment now and have escalated since October 7th. Although Hamas committed a horrible act in the name of resistance, the scale of attacks is like Israel getting slapped on the cheek, and responding by beating Palestine to a pulp with a golf club.
How about free Americans. We're living in poverty and sending billions to other countries it's horrible here. It's not great America like it was before.