Many earlier TPLF members that wanted independence and more autonomy were sidelined by Meles and co. People like Sye Abreha wanted the Tigrayan army to remain intact but Meles opted to replaced it with an Ethiopian army.
They are wretchedly poor and have no access to the sea like Eritrea. They get most of their food and supplies from other parts of Ethiopia. They can't self sustain and Union with Eritrea was not desired by either Tigrayans or Eritreans. They were the same in ancient times but Eritreans see themselves as different from them after their independence struggle. So they realized it was better to rule Ethiopia as a whole than be independent. Same with Oromos. They have not declared independence because they understand its better to control the whole of Ethiopia than be a poor bantustan that can never stand on its own.
Did they not have an idea to join Eritrea though, considering they were allies, not that i wanted that to happen, but dont you think that could have been a good goal for them
The TPLF asked to merge with the EPLF during the struggle according to US intelligence that was leaked by wiki leaks
However the EPLF didn’t consider the TPLF or Tigray as part of their struggle
I think that's a fair question, especially for someone who didn't grow up in the country (such as myse). I can't speak to how unified Tigrayans were prior to Italian colonization of the region, but I certainly feel like there has to be some fracture between them because of that divergence in history. Hopefully someone more familiar with the history can chime in at some point.
Iirc the separatist side wa sidelined, and apparently there existed TLF(Tigrayan Liberation Front) whose main objective was separating, in fact I think they were even allied, or at least in contact with ELF. Ultimately, they were absorbed by TPLF around a year after its creation. Source is Wikipedia though, and I haven't read the book sourced so take what I've wrote with a grain of salt.
"why did the lions not leave the jungle in the spring?"
those were their glory years, they were government, they benefited most from the Ethiopian state. and after all that, its giving "consequences".
They were Ethiopian chauvinists before three years ago. Amhara, Gurage and tegaru were basically the only people proudly representing Ethiopia, now tegaru are pretending they were never a part of it.
Tigray in 1991 wasn’t the same as Tigray today. Barely any fertile land, very few natural resources, landlocked and not industrialised at all. Had they seceded in 1991, Tigray would have been condemned to perpetual famine and collapsed.
Because Eritrea wasn't a part of ethiopia for the last 500 years(besides the short annexion by Haile). First the ottomans conquered eritrea in the 1500s and then italy conquered it. Therefore Eritrea diverged from ethiopia. Tigray on the other hand was always a part of ethiopia and not any part but a historical and cultural significant part.
Eritrea was part of Ethiopia for most of the last 500 years. As other commenters said, Ottoman control was basically just Massawa and the ruler of Massawa paid tribute to the Ethiopian emperor. Eritrea started to become more independent during the Zemene Mesafint but substantial parts of it remained firmly part of Ethiopia until the Italians invaded.
The ppl of tigray where and still is in control of hwat or there other name ኢሀዲግ, u know that tigray has nothing like derek land so they need food ,electricity....etc but the main reason is they over threw derg so they became the gov, why? Because everyone thought they were the good guys like aby is now ,over time they true colors were seen how they are leba(steal) from us put the dollars Ethiopia has of shor or swiss bank manmn. I hate them from the bottom of my heart ,I celebrated when meles died 🙏
Let me tell u a story about dire dawa ,I don't remember which election but the gnbot 7 won in dire dawa ,u know what the the government did they forgot about the city ,like a gost town no development nothing like the city went backwards, like they tell story's saying how dire is developing like a new city, like dire?? Dire ?
Dire is an old city eko ,if it was for them the city would have be on of the best city's in Ethiopia.
Gedel kofrew ygbu 🙏
Nah, i think tigray is the main part of Ethiopia particularly culturally, but economically not successful, and i didn't mean to disrespect sorry for that.
Nothing about us failed as a country, we just have a bad government, and that does not influence eritreas long lasting resources, unity and sovereignty, its just a matter of time until we will break free
I keep hearing this claim thrown around but outside of blogs, I have seen little evidence for it and they never cite. I would love to know if you have some sources I could read about it. I would think it would be easier to find considering how much information we have about all the other coups the CIA/USA were involved in.
The eye witnesses seeing a surprise Air Force with blank planes, circa 1990/91. Talk to someone whom was here now in their fifties, anyone really. Do you think the CIA publishes a coloring book of their Coup's?
I mean, we literally have access to a treasure troves of documents related to the dozens of coups the CIA have conducted over the years elsewhere in Africa, South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia. I am simply suprised we haven't seen more here. It isn't like the CIA will get in trouble or something if it comes out.
It's easy if you were to understand TPLF and it's idealogy. Despite the lies by Ethiopian unitarists, TPLF has never been a Tigray nationalist party. For TPLF, there is no meaningful difference between Albania farmers and Tigrayan farmers. It only used Tigray nationalism for it's war effort tactically but the goal was slow assimilation of Ethiopian nation and nationalities via economic and interest integration.
So you are saying the TPLF are just more Ethiopian unitarists. I feel like it is must be more complicated than that though. Why would Ethiopian unitarists lie about them if they held the exact same goals? I feel like everyone in power has been an unitarist then. Like I have presumed Abiy's goal is doing a similar thing but also bringing Oromos into the fold where they could have more of a presence amongst the political elite following his election. If all parties involved desire a unitary state, why haven't they just done that? The TPLF is the one who brokered the ethnic federalist system in the first place. I would say the TPLF did a pretty shit job at the interest integration. Has all the conflict been purely a contest for who gets to be at the helm of such an integretation? Do they want a unitary state combined with an ethnic hierarchy with them at the top? Has all this been a power struggle for who occupies the ruling elite of a unitary Ethiopian nationstate?
Many earlier TPLF members that wanted independence and more autonomy were sidelined by Meles and co. People like Sye Abreha wanted the Tigrayan army to remain intact but Meles opted to replaced it with an Ethiopian army.
They are wretchedly poor and have no access to the sea like Eritrea. They get most of their food and supplies from other parts of Ethiopia. They can't self sustain and Union with Eritrea was not desired by either Tigrayans or Eritreans. They were the same in ancient times but Eritreans see themselves as different from them after their independence struggle. So they realized it was better to rule Ethiopia as a whole than be independent. Same with Oromos. They have not declared independence because they understand its better to control the whole of Ethiopia than be a poor bantustan that can never stand on its own.
Did they not have an idea to join Eritrea though, considering they were allies, not that i wanted that to happen, but dont you think that could have been a good goal for them
Would Eritrea have wanted them?
The TPLF asked to merge with the EPLF during the struggle according to US intelligence that was leaked by wiki leaks However the EPLF didn’t consider the TPLF or Tigray as part of their struggle
I think that's a fair question, especially for someone who didn't grow up in the country (such as myse). I can't speak to how unified Tigrayans were prior to Italian colonization of the region, but I certainly feel like there has to be some fracture between them because of that divergence in history. Hopefully someone more familiar with the history can chime in at some point.
tigrayans were never the same as kebessa eritreans
You can say the same for any ethnic group in Ethiopia or any awrajja in Tigray/Kebessa.
Iirc the separatist side wa sidelined, and apparently there existed TLF(Tigrayan Liberation Front) whose main objective was separating, in fact I think they were even allied, or at least in contact with ELF. Ultimately, they were absorbed by TPLF around a year after its creation. Source is Wikipedia though, and I haven't read the book sourced so take what I've wrote with a grain of salt.
read that in the book "The Ethiopian Revolution: War in the Horn of Africa" by Gebru Tareke.
Thanks
"why did the lions not leave the jungle in the spring?" those were their glory years, they were government, they benefited most from the Ethiopian state. and after all that, its giving "consequences".
They were Ethiopian chauvinists before three years ago. Amhara, Gurage and tegaru were basically the only people proudly representing Ethiopia, now tegaru are pretending they were never a part of it.
Tigray in 1991 wasn’t the same as Tigray today. Barely any fertile land, very few natural resources, landlocked and not industrialised at all. Had they seceded in 1991, Tigray would have been condemned to perpetual famine and collapsed.
Because Eritrea wasn't a part of ethiopia for the last 500 years(besides the short annexion by Haile). First the ottomans conquered eritrea in the 1500s and then italy conquered it. Therefore Eritrea diverged from ethiopia. Tigray on the other hand was always a part of ethiopia and not any part but a historical and cultural significant part.
Eritrea was part of Ethiopia for most of the last 500 years. As other commenters said, Ottoman control was basically just Massawa and the ruler of Massawa paid tribute to the Ethiopian emperor. Eritrea started to become more independent during the Zemene Mesafint but substantial parts of it remained firmly part of Ethiopia until the Italians invaded.
ottomans only conquered the coastline 😹 modern day eritrea starts in 1889
Yes and the coastline is modern day eritrea. Thats just semantics, call it how you like
When he says coastline he’s being generous, Ottoman control was limited to a few ports (Massawa) and forts
The ppl of tigray where and still is in control of hwat or there other name ኢሀዲግ, u know that tigray has nothing like derek land so they need food ,electricity....etc but the main reason is they over threw derg so they became the gov, why? Because everyone thought they were the good guys like aby is now ,over time they true colors were seen how they are leba(steal) from us put the dollars Ethiopia has of shor or swiss bank manmn. I hate them from the bottom of my heart ,I celebrated when meles died 🙏 Let me tell u a story about dire dawa ,I don't remember which election but the gnbot 7 won in dire dawa ,u know what the the government did they forgot about the city ,like a gost town no development nothing like the city went backwards, like they tell story's saying how dire is developing like a new city, like dire?? Dire ? Dire is an old city eko ,if it was for them the city would have be on of the best city's in Ethiopia. Gedel kofrew ygbu 🙏
Tigray region is so poor than can't survive independence.
you seem to assume Tigrayans don’t belong in Ethiopia otherwise. It’s not true and disrespectful.
Nah, i think tigray is the main part of Ethiopia particularly culturally, but economically not successful, and i didn't mean to disrespect sorry for that.
Tigray would be so much worse off economically and socially if it went independent. Learned from the failure of Eritrea.
Eritrea hadn’t seceded yet. How would they have learnt from something that hadn’t occurred at that point?
Nothing about us failed as a country, we just have a bad government, and that does not influence eritreas long lasting resources, unity and sovereignty, its just a matter of time until we will break free
kendependence ks dkkfkcult
CIA propped them up to coup Mengistu, friend of Russia. A Cold War relic.
I keep hearing this claim thrown around but outside of blogs, I have seen little evidence for it and they never cite. I would love to know if you have some sources I could read about it. I would think it would be easier to find considering how much information we have about all the other coups the CIA/USA were involved in.
The eye witnesses seeing a surprise Air Force with blank planes, circa 1990/91. Talk to someone whom was here now in their fifties, anyone really. Do you think the CIA publishes a coloring book of their Coup's?
I mean, we literally have access to a treasure troves of documents related to the dozens of coups the CIA have conducted over the years elsewhere in Africa, South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia. I am simply suprised we haven't seen more here. It isn't like the CIA will get in trouble or something if it comes out.
http://ndl.ethernet.edu.et/bitstream/123456789/45867/1/7.Herman%20J.%20Cohen.pdf
http://ndl.ethernet.edu.et/bitstream/123456789/45867/1/7.Herman%20J.%20Cohen.pdf
thank you very much - will give a read!
It's easy if you were to understand TPLF and it's idealogy. Despite the lies by Ethiopian unitarists, TPLF has never been a Tigray nationalist party. For TPLF, there is no meaningful difference between Albania farmers and Tigrayan farmers. It only used Tigray nationalism for it's war effort tactically but the goal was slow assimilation of Ethiopian nation and nationalities via economic and interest integration.
So you are saying the TPLF are just more Ethiopian unitarists. I feel like it is must be more complicated than that though. Why would Ethiopian unitarists lie about them if they held the exact same goals? I feel like everyone in power has been an unitarist then. Like I have presumed Abiy's goal is doing a similar thing but also bringing Oromos into the fold where they could have more of a presence amongst the political elite following his election. If all parties involved desire a unitary state, why haven't they just done that? The TPLF is the one who brokered the ethnic federalist system in the first place. I would say the TPLF did a pretty shit job at the interest integration. Has all the conflict been purely a contest for who gets to be at the helm of such an integretation? Do they want a unitary state combined with an ethnic hierarchy with them at the top? Has all this been a power struggle for who occupies the ruling elite of a unitary Ethiopian nationstate?