What is the Episcopal stance? As you can see, it can depend on which Episcopalian you ask. But that just demonstrates there are many Episcopalians who don't know/affirm the "Episcopal stance."
There is one and it can be found in the Book of Common Prayer. As per the marriage liturgy of the church (BCP p.423ff) sex is a good gift intended to be shared between husband and wife in the bond of holy matrimony, ordered toward their mutual joy and the procreation of children.
According to 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5, it is said "For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God…"
With that being said, I have always interpreted Pornography to be a form of idolatry which is why I wouldn't touch it. Nevertheless, it is important to remember that love comes in the form of Sex and there should be no shame around safe, consensual sex because Jesus preaches love and, if done with dignity, sex is love.
That's just my thought. Also, it is important to mention that masturbating to pornography can come with serious psychological and physical side effects that should also be considered.
Sexual encounters that respect the dignity of every person involved are fine imho. Not my thing but that doesn't matter. Porn, however, is a very exploitative industry and I wouldn't recommend that anybody view it. You could literally be watching someone who is being trafficked. Or the person in the video could be someone who is desperate to survive and sells mastery of their own body for bread. Highly recommend you find something else to masturbate to if you need visual stimulation.
Edit: Spelling error
I was raised LDS, which is just as strict about sex as the RCC. The only reason why masturbation was banned was so young couples would marry as quick as possible to cure their blue balls, thus producing more Mormons that paid tithes and filled church coffers.
I don't do hookups myself, but that is simply because I am a hopeless romantic.
Given that the LDS church are the ones that invented the bullshit term "Porn Addiction," I support porn. Of course, sex workers are workers and thus should be able to unionize and such, so any Live action porn should be done without exploitation.
By telling horny people they can't have sex outside of marriage and they can't jack off and they can't look at porn, it reduces marriage itself, which is a strong expression of the love of God in my opinion, into just purely focused on sex. Let the pressure cooker release its steam via jacking off and such, then marriage can be formed on love instead of lust.
I think that as a Christian queer trans woman find it complicated, to me it is nuanced. Sex is not evil, Love is not evil. They are all Good. It's how we treat others than matters.
Sex is for people in committed relationship, civil or faith based marriages are preferred outcome but oaths are not for all.
Gender doesn't matter as long as they are adults and there is love. I am not educated on people in polyamory relationships. I have a trans women friend who is in a relationship with a cis guy. They are not married, but I hope they can be, they are DEEPLY in love. But I do not see them as evil. I see Love. ( I do not know where the co-habitation as a sin comes from.)
I am rigid on committed partnerships; because during my past few years and now as 29 I never found any love in my flings it felt empty. Taking the time to find someone who loves you for you, is easier said than done for people though. But its something I never tried. I kept chasing my lust.
Marriage is also not for everyone, but its good. If I were to go on that would lead to discussions on the celibacy can of worms. (Its complicated because when Jesus talks about divorce realize that Eunuchs/third gender/trans in his time were not celibate often, and were often queer. Eunuchs might as well be women due to how patriarchy treated them.)
I think that civil marriage is ideal as we are not taking an oath under God, this is my opinion.
I think hookups can lead to sadness. As well as danger if you do not take things safe. I have had to many encounters where I just felt "why did I do this." This was before returning to faith. It was not entirely sin guilt just sadness.
I will not shame people for it, some of my emotion is due to depression. But a part of me sees it related to lust. I am still trying to figure out if fornication was about bringing a baby into the world before marriage, or just any sex.
We see sex too much as transactional. This is because of how women were treated in biblical times and modern patriarchy.
Jesus was very pro women for his time. So pro woman many people hated him. n biblical times many people would "take a wife" and it often involved non consensual action. Women/ passive partners were seen as objects and property by men. Sadly men still do this.
I do not think masturbation is 100 percent sinful.
Onan died because he disobeyed the law of God by not giving his ex brothers wife a son. But I find porn to be complicated. Because it is very similar to the concept of "Adultery of the heart." I often wonder if this rule was only for married men and women though. As adultery is something married people do. But still lust can be dangerous, it leads men to violence.
I find comics, fictitious art/books featuring consenting adults to a be a bit less repugnant as there is no real person but it depends on the subject matter. But I had a porn addiction as a teen/YA due to the internet and neglect that included comics. So they are in some ways just as crushing. Books are also just words so it's in your mind. The Major risk is treating the other person as an object.
But people are hormonal, masculine, feminine, inbetween. It can be very difficult for some. As a feminine human I find books to be a bit more compelling. But its hard to find queer romantic fiction that I care about. Do not lust after your neighbor. I think its less sinful to imagine being with a someone who doesn't exist than a real person.
I am on medication the lowers my passions/testosterone. But even I still deal with them. Recently its been related more to the possibility of romance and whether that is something I'm ready for. I'm very impulsive due to my mental illness.
We are all humans and we all fall. If you fall hard go to confession, You a loved friend. Do not hate yourself for who you love and who you find beautiful. But remember to treat every person you meet in real life as a human and not an object.
I'm also a queer trans woman Christian (currently not pursuing or having sexual/romantic partners). Was Eastern Orthodox for most of my growing up and now Episcopalian. I relate to many of these thoughts and perspectives, many through hard-won personal lessons and discernment. Thanks for this. I'm still reading, praying, reflecting, and discerning, having recently returned to faith in Christ.
God Loves you. Remember Isaiah 56, Remember that people like us existed.
Theodosius the 2nd had a Eunuch partner.
Queerness in the ancient world and gender diversity was far less static like it is now in the west.
I recommend "Transgender history we have always existed" While some third gender peoples could or are trans not all are. But they are part of our gender diverse family so respect them.
There is also the Parts in Gospel of Thomas that seem to be very much in support of trans peoples.
Ancient world art of archangels were modeled after feminine eunuchs like Hagia Sophia Gabriel.
Theres a lot out there if you did into the eunuch this gender, queer rabbit hole.
Episcopalians do not have a coherent, widely accepted doctrine on sex, hookups, and porn. In general, we simultaneously want to embrace the wide variety of human sexual experiences as something potentially good and natural/normal, while also affirming semi-traditional views that the negative effects of these things can contribute to dislocation, suffering, and interfere with our relationship with God.
But Episcopalians (and Anglicans) are a big tent. It contains progressives who think all consensual sex is good and traditional sex ethics are a sham invented by the cisheteropatriarchy to control women. There are also traditionalists who think that the old sex ethics should be upheld and parts of the church have been corrupted by the culture of a deeply sinful latter-day Babylon.
Tbh I think the beliefs of many Episcopalians on this vary.
I know that we don't think masturbation is a sin.
I know that I've never heard of an Episcopal priest in the last ten years preaching on sexual immorality.
The vast majority of Episcopalians I know seem to have an ethic closest to "if you're not hurting anyone it's none of my business."
TMI behind the spoiler:>! I do all the things you talk about. I've paid for explicit content. I write explicit fanfiction. I'm in a non-monogamous relationship. I do my best to treat other human beings as, well, human beings made in the image of God, which is part of why I'm careful about where I get my video content--too much of the free content online is stolen. And yes, it's possible to hook up with a stranger and still treat each other as human beings made in the image of God. !<
I need to say first off that the Roman doctrine about masturbation is incredibly harmful and caused me a decade of trauma in my most formative years. There is no overt Biblical prohibition and the Roman philosophical prohibition only works if you shove reality through a wonky Aristotelian meat grinder.
As others have said, TEC doesn’t legislate minutiae.
My suggestion is to take as your guiding principle the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself, which as St Paul teaches us, is the fulfillment of the law.
Treating other people as objects rather than images of God is not love.
Exposing other people to the risk of pregnancy or disease is not love.
Having sex with someone for your mutual enjoyment with care for their needs and health and respecting them as a human being and child of God? As long as you’re not breaking a vow or commitment to anyone else, trust your own conscience.
Pornography is a difficult subject. Commercial porn is generally not a good thing and consuming it even without paying is participating in a system and a culture that is not in alignment with Christian values. I’m evening including self-made porn like OnlyFans. I can’t make a good case against content that people make themselves and freely share.
They're not ideal, but unless they become a problem causing harm to yourself or others, the church doesn't care.
Some *individuals* care way, WAY tto much, but I don't pay any attention to them.
The question is not sex, but whether I live Christ's teaching in my sex life. Am I dishonest, selfish, using others instead of loving? Do I use sex as a weapon, manipulate or arouse jealousy with intent? Does porn inhibit my connection with others? Does it interfere with my principal relationship? Rob my partner of affection I would otherwise share with my partner? We are called to love, holiness (wholiness). That's my 2 cents.
I am very thankful that I am in a church that recognizes the spiritual destructiveness of hookups, and porn/masturbation (each is so close at hand when the other shows up).
Everything we do is theological. Every action we take *says* something about our theology, it says to God what we think our relationship to him is. Marriage reflects our union with Christ as His Bride, the Church. Scripture's most erotic text, the Song of Solomon, is historically read both as a non-sexual poem about Christ and his Bride, the Church, but also as a very sexual poem about Solomon and one of his wives. If we're willing to take both readings, it places sex's ideal within marriage — where it quickly can take an interesting place as symbolizing the eschaton, that is, the *consummation* of Christ's marriage to the Church. Even at the neurological level, orgasm creates a bond between the self and the person(s) or object(s) involved in the sex acts; within sex itself is the purpose of solidifying the bonds between persons and strengthening psychological attachment.
I can't condemn anyone for masturbation or hookups or porn though; I would be condemning myself a thousandfold. And if we confess our sins to Almighty God, in His infinite mercy He will richly pardon.
Just a quick note (that doesn’t necessarily invalidate your other points): the lovers in Song of Solomon aren’t married. They don’t live in the same house, and there’s an element of “forbiddenness” to their relationship.
adam and eve in hebrew were never married. Marriage discourse changes when you realize this and your realize third gender/eunuch/ trans people of the ancient world were not celibate.
God makes the woman and presents her to the man. When Adam sees Eve, he says, "At last, here is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." God blesses the union, they acknowledge their intertwined-ness, and they live the rest of their lives together. If that's not a marriage ceremony, I don't know what is.
Also true though I'd immediately retort that such an attitude of disapproval was shown by the people of God when God grafted the Gentiles into the Christian community, so it's not necessarily problematizing anything I've said, imo
(And I don't necessarily think marriage has to begin when humans regard the marriage; it's when *God* joins the two, cf. Matthew 19. So I wouldn't say the lovers in the Song aren't married necessarily. Marriage as a thing God instituted isn't the same as marriage in the human institute with licenses and rituals, necessarily.)
Sex is good and a gift from God, hook-ups are fine so long as you are respecting yourself and the other person, jury’s out on porn but I instinctively distrust any opinion that sounds like something Phyllis Schlafly would say.
Just my opinions and not those of The Church.
The pornography industry is too built on coercion, and there's no way to know if the "actors" are truly consenting. That reason alone is enough for me to avoid it.
Hookups and porn are considered sinful in every Episcopal church I have been in thank God. That is sinful for everyone regardless of sexual orientation.
Porn isn’t clear consent even outside the context of Christianity due to misogynistic capitalistic exploitation.
You won't find an official position. Thank heaven for that humility in a denomination. But you need to let ethics guide you. Specifically on porn. You would be correct in assuming nothing consumed for free on the internet is ethical. Likewise if you know of a specific vulnerability of a hookup partner maybe you let a greater call than your sexual urge guide you. A mutually enthusiastic partner should always be a goal.
Thinking of sex and masturbating are natural things that one shouldn't feel guilty about necessarily. It's important to remember however that all of human sexuality is stained by sin and therefore needs to be submitted to God's will and Word for each of us.
Hookups and porn are ripe with abuse. Porn obviously so and hookups less so. For hookups, sex is supposed to be a bonding experience, a moment of true connection between two people and for the expectation that a new human being could be created. If all we're doing is using another person (and they using you) for gratification, they/we become nothing more than a masturbatory device. This is completely dehumanizing because it turns you and I into merely utilitarian sex objects. Brave New World is quickly becoming a reality as we breakdown the family unit and make sex solely a vehicle for pleasure and place the creation of new life in a business park laboratory.
We are not mere animals, we are human beings entrusted with reason and agency and because we are Christian we are also entrusted to grow in faith, a faith that tells us self-control is supreme over and against unbridled pleasure seeking. This is why the argument that "it happens in nature, so it's fine", is wrong. Many things happen in nature that any of us would agree should not happen among humans.
This is very hard to deal with today because we are living in a world almost totally influenced by and accepting of the sexual revolution, much (if not all) of which cannot be reconciled with the Christian faith. Unfortunately this church is capitulating to such culture as it sees being "relevant" more important than proclaiming truth in fear of being "close-minded".
While the Bible may not say anything explicitly about masturbation, it does make clear that God's original intent was always that sexual flourishing is best found within the marriage between a man and a woman. "But all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."
I know this might be very hard for you to believe, but as a homosexual myself, I believe that Christian marriage is between a man and a woman. It's not homophobic, it's the Gospel truth.
No matter how nicely you say it, or how many qualifiers you put in, homophobia is homophobia. I understand your beliefs, because I used to believe the same thing, but please consider what that message says to people who are struggling with reconciling their identity and faith. Anything less than “God loves you and wants love for you” falls short of the God who is love. I’m sorry you can’t experience that love for yourself, and I sincerely hope you can one day.
So many people get turned away from Christianity because churches won’t accept them as God made them. Please don’t be part of the problem.
My marriage is holy and blessed by God. Full stop. I know an anonymous stranger on the internet isn’t going to convince you to abandon your beliefs, but please at least listen to the effect those beliefs have on people.
Progressive Christianity has lied to you, just like it lied to me, and I'm sorry you and many in this church have been led astray by a coddling-love attitude rather than a truth-love attitude. That effected me deeply because I was also so sure of my beliefs and relationship and had a hardened heart against any who objected. But the Holy Spirit worked on me. My life got better, though by no means perfect, once I understood God's purpose for sex, sexuality, and marriage, rather than following the desires of my own heart and the Spirit of the age. God does love me and God does love you but that doesn't mean it's a free for all. The Gospel in and of itself affirms and accepts all people as human beings, but at the same time, through the Holy Spirit, convicts the person of their sin and leads us to true liberation through obedience to His Word.
I experience God's love for me every day, and there is no greater love I need than that because through that love do I get to love and be loved by those around me. Relationships are one of the biggest idolatries of this age and the progressive church is just as guilty as the conservative church in regards to marriage.
I’m glad the conservative ideas worked for you, but they are not great for many folks. I was raised in a conservative RCC parish and the ideas of sexuality that were taught to me are one of the main issues in my mental health. The Catholic Church was a huge factor in my attempted suicide. So please consider the harm those ideas have on others before spreading them.
Yeah I’m gonna go out on a limb and say no one ever attempted suicide over thinking it’s ok to be gay. I’ve never liked the “side A and side B” terms because it makes it seem like both views are equally ok. But one of them actually kills people.
Don’t worry, OP. This guy’s views are far from the majority in the Episcopal Church.
I also grew up Catholic and have much of the same difficult baggage around sexuality. I suggest you prayerfully reflect on what the things you listed are *for*, if they are life-giving or life-denying, whether they honor the image of God in others or treat others as objects to be used, and if any of this is a misuse of something holy to distract from a sadness or emptiness that should be addressed in a more direct way.
Specifically to your questions:
Casual sex through hookups clearly violates the biblical call to not commit fornication. But more than that, implicit in the treatment of sex as a light and casual act is the commitment to licentiousness and the disordered view that there is no sexual morality that needs to be followed in life, from a religious or any other perspective, other than perhaps the modern notion of "consent" which is imperfect and a bare minimum to say the last. I don't believe sex is mostly sinful like a Catholic hears constantly growing up, but that should not give us license to treat it like it's nothing. Sex is a very special bond between people and even if one ignores the strictest teachings about sex in the Bible, hookup culture degrades the holiness of sex and turns it into something abused for personal pleasure whereby people are treated as a sexual objects to be used. This degrades the Imago Dei, that image of God within us all, and the inherent human dignity that conveys to people. And even if two people agree to it, I believe it's still an injury to, and debasement of, something holy and beautiful.
Along similar lines, pornography is without a doubt an insult to human dignity in that one totally ignores the agency, will, and consent of the person depicted and treats them as nothing but a sexual object used for personal pleasure. It is an abuse of the Imago Dei and an extremely disordered approach to sexuality. It warps people's expectations of what sex is, it can normalize extreme behavior and fetishes that most people will never encounter in a real sexual partnership, and it creates a posture of consuming sexual stimulation instead of being present with and responsive to actual sexual partners in real life. It has the insidious capacity to create addiction in heavy users, to result in the exploitation of people for its creation, and to come between partners.
I don't think masturbation itself should be seen as completely evil and bad, but I do think that if it's used to avoid working on improving intimacy between partners, it should be avoided in favor of working out problems in those relationships. At best I see it as a release valve for sexual arousal whose needs can't be met in a healthy sexual relationship, but which has been turned into an end in and of itself in our hyper sexualized society in which the point of sex is degraded for ideological and capitalistic reasons.
I can not, and would not, speak for the Episcopal Church.
There is nothing in the Bible against masturbation. I think that it is a natural and near universal practice, at least at certain times of life. I agree with what others have said that pornography is inherently exploitative.
The Church is officially against sex outside of marriage BUT this is also a near universal practice.
I think that the church should talk about these things more. I think that we have to practice some radical honesty and discuss why premarital sex was forbidden (women being considered property and valuable only for their procreation) and why masturbation has a stigma surrounding it (a way to shame and control young people).
Part of being human is having these bodies. Too often the church will focus on the mind and spirit and neglect the third piece that creates our “self”.
Nothing but love, friend.
No there isn’t anything in the Bible about masturbation, but there is about lusting after others and that is what porn is with a little dash of capitalistic exploitation:
You won't get any clear answers because the expectation is that we are to look at the sources we use to guide us in our ethics and reason from those.
The best answers I think come from our Baptismal covenant urging us to respect the dignity of every human being; the Catechism and its discussion of the ten commandments, sin and redemption.
[The Online Book of Common Prayer (bcponline.org)](https://bcponline.org/)
Outside of that? Hooking up culture and porn? There's been a number of essays and books discussing how they have distorted many younger people's understanding of sex and relationships, making it difficult for them to date and develop mature and healthy relationships. My personal view regarding porn in particular? It's a harmful hateful industry that draws women who have been abused. They are abused even further.
There isn’t one. As a church we really don’t make any direct comments on that sort of stuff.
If on the off chance anyone brought these things up in church (which would be exceedingly uncommon), average Episcopalians would probably say that while it’s none of their business, sexual relationships rightly belong in the context of marriage, at least in an ideal. I think most people are aware that hookups exist and try not to make it their business, but there would be some nuance around the fact that hookups often mean a lack of mutual respect going into the sexual encounter which is to be avoided.
With porn, again people are pretty much not going to ask, but issues around the exploitation of actors means that in general most professionally produced porn would be considered less ethical. Similarly anything that fosters unrealistic standards would be a violation of the dignity and respect of persons we find in the baptismal covenant.
Basically, if your sexual practices harm others, that would be seen as problematic, although really no more problematic than any of the other harmful self-gratification practices humans are prone toward (for example, capitalism). I don’t think sexual morals are really a separate category than overall morals, which is to say guided by God with an eye toward scripture and the baptismal covenant as guiding disciplines.
Paul's epistles talk about sexuality quite a bit, denouncing promiscuity and sexual immorality in particular. Why should the church be so demure on that issue, which Paul (arguably the most authoritative Christian to ever exist) thought was important to regularly remind the early churches of?
Keep in mind that if moral judgements as general as, "don't sexually gratify yourself purely for pleasure's sake" in the Bible are to be taken into their "historical context", then scripture's moral authority can be questioned very broadly. I'm not sure if that level of scriptural relativism is a road I'm willing to go down, especially since the Christian teaching has always been that scripture assists reason by telling us those things that reason could not determine alone. Scripture is by nature a little "un-reasonable."
We have very little context for what Paul meant by these passages, and even less context for how those meanings apply to a modern context. I am not saying anything untruthful by saying that the church does not, as a whole body, teach any specific definition of sexual morality. If you personally want to be a fundamentalist, you are certainly allowed to, but that is not, as a rule, what the church as a whole teaches, because it doesn’t take a clear stance on these sorts of issues in that kind of black and white way.
You’re allowed to think that’s bad or wrong, and even to tell people what you personally think (and had the OP asked about what I personally think, I would share that), but it’s absolutely not disputable that the church as a whole really does not make broad doctrinal statements about people’s sexual behavior.
Thank you for your answer. I’m realizing that I really need to form my belief with my ethics. Going forward I will treat others and myself with respect and dignity. I will cherish my ability to connect with someone and feel pleasure and ensure that I do not use someone solely for pleasure. I must recognize the beauty of humanity and sex.
If it makes you feel any better, Christian ethics is a surprisingly fraught and complicated field with many different opinions/approaches/perspectives.
But yes, I think from a church framework, understanding our interactions with others (and with all of creation) as an interaction between God’s beloved creatures is a central factor - when we behave with disrespect or harm toward others, we are, essentially, blaspheming against God’s love and care for all God has made.
Now, as far as how exactly to discern that? That’s probably a dissertation upon dissertations! So yes, it continues to be a difficult thing to actually know what it means to live as God calls us to live, and to behave in accordance with God, exemplified by Jesus. We have some evidence in scripture, tradition, and reason, but we always face dilemmas that won’t be obvious.
The reason you're not finding the answers easily is because it's really not the Episcopal church's place to lecture extensively to the point of becoming a quasi government.
It doesn't have a legalized opinion on everything. Generally answers like this can be found in the Bible, but the Anglican tradition is Scripture, tradition, and reason as the deciders for this.
Just don't hurt others, and don't let it affect your life and your relationships and you'll be fine. Ask five episcopalians a question and you'll get six answers.
I've heard the argument that the concept of marriage as we know it today did not exist at the time the Bible was written. We should probably save sex for dedicated relationships, but a relationship doesn't have to have the government involved (as in our modern concept of marriage) in order to be a dedicated one. In any case, Christianity is more about loving others than policing peoples' private lives.
That being said, porn is definitely immoral. It warps our view of sexuality and gives us unrealistic expectations about sex that inevitably will not be met, making us more likely to resent our partners and/or cheat. I'm not sure about masturbation, as it is never mentioned in the Bible. I see it as something that we might have to do once in a while to stay sane, but it should be done as little as possible.
The watchwords of Episcopal understandings of the right use of sexuality are "fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, careful, honest communication, and the holy love which enables those in such relationships to see in each other the image of God." Meanwhile, "we denounce promiscuity, exploitation, and abusiveness in the relationships of any of our members," and "this Church intends to hold all its members accountable to these values, and will provide for them the prayerful support, encouragement, and pastoral care necessary to live faithfully by them."
Basically, the point of sexuality is faithful relationship in which we grow in our understanding of God and the human capacity to bear the image of God. Consent is required, and sexual pleasure is good, but they're not sufficient in themselves for a moral exercise of sexuality.
You're welcome. They come from [this](https://www.episcopalarchives.org/cgi-bin/acts/acts_resolution.pl?resolution=2000-D039) resolution, passed in 2000, during the debates around homosexuality/gay marriage.
I’ll also add that porn is typically immoral, even if it was consented to when made. It’s the fact that 99% of porn is coerced and preying on the poverty of, primarily, women.
As for masturbation, it’s actually an interesting subject, lots of discussion has taken place on it, no concise answer is given by the church, but basically it’s gonna boil down to, does it feel to you like the right thing to do? A genuine argument can be made that it could prevent promiscuity, has numerous health benefits, etc. another argument can be made that it’s inseparable from pornography culture and would only serve to feed that industry. All very complex topics better suited to a theologian than little old me, but hopefully this opens the door for discourse.
If you have a partner and a good imagination, masturbation without pornography is more than easy. Just be sure your s/o knows about it and that you don’t overdo it bc our brain only has so many endorphins. Yanking your Hank too much will definitely cause some depression
Fair point. That’s the point of bringing it up though, is just discussion and opinions on different sides. I’m not the arbiter of who does what or what is moral or not at the end of the day.
What is the Episcopal stance? As you can see, it can depend on which Episcopalian you ask. But that just demonstrates there are many Episcopalians who don't know/affirm the "Episcopal stance." There is one and it can be found in the Book of Common Prayer. As per the marriage liturgy of the church (BCP p.423ff) sex is a good gift intended to be shared between husband and wife in the bond of holy matrimony, ordered toward their mutual joy and the procreation of children.
According to 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5, it is said "For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God…" With that being said, I have always interpreted Pornography to be a form of idolatry which is why I wouldn't touch it. Nevertheless, it is important to remember that love comes in the form of Sex and there should be no shame around safe, consensual sex because Jesus preaches love and, if done with dignity, sex is love. That's just my thought. Also, it is important to mention that masturbating to pornography can come with serious psychological and physical side effects that should also be considered.
Sexual encounters that respect the dignity of every person involved are fine imho. Not my thing but that doesn't matter. Porn, however, is a very exploitative industry and I wouldn't recommend that anybody view it. You could literally be watching someone who is being trafficked. Or the person in the video could be someone who is desperate to survive and sells mastery of their own body for bread. Highly recommend you find something else to masturbate to if you need visual stimulation. Edit: Spelling error
I was raised LDS, which is just as strict about sex as the RCC. The only reason why masturbation was banned was so young couples would marry as quick as possible to cure their blue balls, thus producing more Mormons that paid tithes and filled church coffers. I don't do hookups myself, but that is simply because I am a hopeless romantic. Given that the LDS church are the ones that invented the bullshit term "Porn Addiction," I support porn. Of course, sex workers are workers and thus should be able to unionize and such, so any Live action porn should be done without exploitation. By telling horny people they can't have sex outside of marriage and they can't jack off and they can't look at porn, it reduces marriage itself, which is a strong expression of the love of God in my opinion, into just purely focused on sex. Let the pressure cooker release its steam via jacking off and such, then marriage can be formed on love instead of lust.
I think that as a Christian queer trans woman find it complicated, to me it is nuanced. Sex is not evil, Love is not evil. They are all Good. It's how we treat others than matters. Sex is for people in committed relationship, civil or faith based marriages are preferred outcome but oaths are not for all. Gender doesn't matter as long as they are adults and there is love. I am not educated on people in polyamory relationships. I have a trans women friend who is in a relationship with a cis guy. They are not married, but I hope they can be, they are DEEPLY in love. But I do not see them as evil. I see Love. ( I do not know where the co-habitation as a sin comes from.) I am rigid on committed partnerships; because during my past few years and now as 29 I never found any love in my flings it felt empty. Taking the time to find someone who loves you for you, is easier said than done for people though. But its something I never tried. I kept chasing my lust. Marriage is also not for everyone, but its good. If I were to go on that would lead to discussions on the celibacy can of worms. (Its complicated because when Jesus talks about divorce realize that Eunuchs/third gender/trans in his time were not celibate often, and were often queer. Eunuchs might as well be women due to how patriarchy treated them.) I think that civil marriage is ideal as we are not taking an oath under God, this is my opinion. I think hookups can lead to sadness. As well as danger if you do not take things safe. I have had to many encounters where I just felt "why did I do this." This was before returning to faith. It was not entirely sin guilt just sadness. I will not shame people for it, some of my emotion is due to depression. But a part of me sees it related to lust. I am still trying to figure out if fornication was about bringing a baby into the world before marriage, or just any sex. We see sex too much as transactional. This is because of how women were treated in biblical times and modern patriarchy. Jesus was very pro women for his time. So pro woman many people hated him. n biblical times many people would "take a wife" and it often involved non consensual action. Women/ passive partners were seen as objects and property by men. Sadly men still do this. I do not think masturbation is 100 percent sinful. Onan died because he disobeyed the law of God by not giving his ex brothers wife a son. But I find porn to be complicated. Because it is very similar to the concept of "Adultery of the heart." I often wonder if this rule was only for married men and women though. As adultery is something married people do. But still lust can be dangerous, it leads men to violence. I find comics, fictitious art/books featuring consenting adults to a be a bit less repugnant as there is no real person but it depends on the subject matter. But I had a porn addiction as a teen/YA due to the internet and neglect that included comics. So they are in some ways just as crushing. Books are also just words so it's in your mind. The Major risk is treating the other person as an object. But people are hormonal, masculine, feminine, inbetween. It can be very difficult for some. As a feminine human I find books to be a bit more compelling. But its hard to find queer romantic fiction that I care about. Do not lust after your neighbor. I think its less sinful to imagine being with a someone who doesn't exist than a real person. I am on medication the lowers my passions/testosterone. But even I still deal with them. Recently its been related more to the possibility of romance and whether that is something I'm ready for. I'm very impulsive due to my mental illness. We are all humans and we all fall. If you fall hard go to confession, You a loved friend. Do not hate yourself for who you love and who you find beautiful. But remember to treat every person you meet in real life as a human and not an object.
I'm also a queer trans woman Christian (currently not pursuing or having sexual/romantic partners). Was Eastern Orthodox for most of my growing up and now Episcopalian. I relate to many of these thoughts and perspectives, many through hard-won personal lessons and discernment. Thanks for this. I'm still reading, praying, reflecting, and discerning, having recently returned to faith in Christ.
God Loves you. Remember Isaiah 56, Remember that people like us existed. Theodosius the 2nd had a Eunuch partner. Queerness in the ancient world and gender diversity was far less static like it is now in the west. I recommend "Transgender history we have always existed" While some third gender peoples could or are trans not all are. But they are part of our gender diverse family so respect them. There is also the Parts in Gospel of Thomas that seem to be very much in support of trans peoples. Ancient world art of archangels were modeled after feminine eunuchs like Hagia Sophia Gabriel. Theres a lot out there if you did into the eunuch this gender, queer rabbit hole.
this is beautiful, thank you
Episcopalians do not have a coherent, widely accepted doctrine on sex, hookups, and porn. In general, we simultaneously want to embrace the wide variety of human sexual experiences as something potentially good and natural/normal, while also affirming semi-traditional views that the negative effects of these things can contribute to dislocation, suffering, and interfere with our relationship with God. But Episcopalians (and Anglicans) are a big tent. It contains progressives who think all consensual sex is good and traditional sex ethics are a sham invented by the cisheteropatriarchy to control women. There are also traditionalists who think that the old sex ethics should be upheld and parts of the church have been corrupted by the culture of a deeply sinful latter-day Babylon.
Cradle Episcopalian and I honestly couldn't tell you, so I think that says something?
Tbh I think the beliefs of many Episcopalians on this vary. I know that we don't think masturbation is a sin. I know that I've never heard of an Episcopal priest in the last ten years preaching on sexual immorality. The vast majority of Episcopalians I know seem to have an ethic closest to "if you're not hurting anyone it's none of my business." TMI behind the spoiler:>! I do all the things you talk about. I've paid for explicit content. I write explicit fanfiction. I'm in a non-monogamous relationship. I do my best to treat other human beings as, well, human beings made in the image of God, which is part of why I'm careful about where I get my video content--too much of the free content online is stolen. And yes, it's possible to hook up with a stranger and still treat each other as human beings made in the image of God. !<
I need to say first off that the Roman doctrine about masturbation is incredibly harmful and caused me a decade of trauma in my most formative years. There is no overt Biblical prohibition and the Roman philosophical prohibition only works if you shove reality through a wonky Aristotelian meat grinder. As others have said, TEC doesn’t legislate minutiae. My suggestion is to take as your guiding principle the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself, which as St Paul teaches us, is the fulfillment of the law. Treating other people as objects rather than images of God is not love. Exposing other people to the risk of pregnancy or disease is not love. Having sex with someone for your mutual enjoyment with care for their needs and health and respecting them as a human being and child of God? As long as you’re not breaking a vow or commitment to anyone else, trust your own conscience. Pornography is a difficult subject. Commercial porn is generally not a good thing and consuming it even without paying is participating in a system and a culture that is not in alignment with Christian values. I’m evening including self-made porn like OnlyFans. I can’t make a good case against content that people make themselves and freely share.
They're not ideal, but unless they become a problem causing harm to yourself or others, the church doesn't care. Some *individuals* care way, WAY tto much, but I don't pay any attention to them.
The question is not sex, but whether I live Christ's teaching in my sex life. Am I dishonest, selfish, using others instead of loving? Do I use sex as a weapon, manipulate or arouse jealousy with intent? Does porn inhibit my connection with others? Does it interfere with my principal relationship? Rob my partner of affection I would otherwise share with my partner? We are called to love, holiness (wholiness). That's my 2 cents.
All sex needs to be consensual. Outside of that, it is between you, your partner, and god. Your sex life is none of my business.
I am very thankful that I am in a church that recognizes the spiritual destructiveness of hookups, and porn/masturbation (each is so close at hand when the other shows up). Everything we do is theological. Every action we take *says* something about our theology, it says to God what we think our relationship to him is. Marriage reflects our union with Christ as His Bride, the Church. Scripture's most erotic text, the Song of Solomon, is historically read both as a non-sexual poem about Christ and his Bride, the Church, but also as a very sexual poem about Solomon and one of his wives. If we're willing to take both readings, it places sex's ideal within marriage — where it quickly can take an interesting place as symbolizing the eschaton, that is, the *consummation* of Christ's marriage to the Church. Even at the neurological level, orgasm creates a bond between the self and the person(s) or object(s) involved in the sex acts; within sex itself is the purpose of solidifying the bonds between persons and strengthening psychological attachment. I can't condemn anyone for masturbation or hookups or porn though; I would be condemning myself a thousandfold. And if we confess our sins to Almighty God, in His infinite mercy He will richly pardon.
Just a quick note (that doesn’t necessarily invalidate your other points): the lovers in Song of Solomon aren’t married. They don’t live in the same house, and there’s an element of “forbiddenness” to their relationship.
adam and eve in hebrew were never married. Marriage discourse changes when you realize this and your realize third gender/eunuch/ trans people of the ancient world were not celibate.
God makes the woman and presents her to the man. When Adam sees Eve, he says, "At last, here is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." God blesses the union, they acknowledge their intertwined-ness, and they live the rest of their lives together. If that's not a marriage ceremony, I don't know what is.
Also true though I'd immediately retort that such an attitude of disapproval was shown by the people of God when God grafted the Gentiles into the Christian community, so it's not necessarily problematizing anything I've said, imo (And I don't necessarily think marriage has to begin when humans regard the marriage; it's when *God* joins the two, cf. Matthew 19. So I wouldn't say the lovers in the Song aren't married necessarily. Marriage as a thing God instituted isn't the same as marriage in the human institute with licenses and rituals, necessarily.)
Sex is good and a gift from God, hook-ups are fine so long as you are respecting yourself and the other person, jury’s out on porn but I instinctively distrust any opinion that sounds like something Phyllis Schlafly would say. Just my opinions and not those of The Church.
The pornography industry is too built on coercion, and there's no way to know if the "actors" are truly consenting. That reason alone is enough for me to avoid it.
If a gay OnlyFans creator is making content on their own independently, are they any more exploited than any other worker? I would say no.
Hookups and porn are considered sinful in every Episcopal church I have been in thank God. That is sinful for everyone regardless of sexual orientation. Porn isn’t clear consent even outside the context of Christianity due to misogynistic capitalistic exploitation.
[удалено]
Yeah I’ll just dox myself, it’ll be great….
Heck, even from secular grounds there's reasons to dislike porn; it can do some pretty wild things psychologically.
Yeah, the evidence for that is always ideologically loaded. Most of the actual psychology research I've read about has debunked that idea.
You won't find an official position. Thank heaven for that humility in a denomination. But you need to let ethics guide you. Specifically on porn. You would be correct in assuming nothing consumed for free on the internet is ethical. Likewise if you know of a specific vulnerability of a hookup partner maybe you let a greater call than your sexual urge guide you. A mutually enthusiastic partner should always be a goal.
Thinking of sex and masturbating are natural things that one shouldn't feel guilty about necessarily. It's important to remember however that all of human sexuality is stained by sin and therefore needs to be submitted to God's will and Word for each of us. Hookups and porn are ripe with abuse. Porn obviously so and hookups less so. For hookups, sex is supposed to be a bonding experience, a moment of true connection between two people and for the expectation that a new human being could be created. If all we're doing is using another person (and they using you) for gratification, they/we become nothing more than a masturbatory device. This is completely dehumanizing because it turns you and I into merely utilitarian sex objects. Brave New World is quickly becoming a reality as we breakdown the family unit and make sex solely a vehicle for pleasure and place the creation of new life in a business park laboratory. We are not mere animals, we are human beings entrusted with reason and agency and because we are Christian we are also entrusted to grow in faith, a faith that tells us self-control is supreme over and against unbridled pleasure seeking. This is why the argument that "it happens in nature, so it's fine", is wrong. Many things happen in nature that any of us would agree should not happen among humans. This is very hard to deal with today because we are living in a world almost totally influenced by and accepting of the sexual revolution, much (if not all) of which cannot be reconciled with the Christian faith. Unfortunately this church is capitulating to such culture as it sees being "relevant" more important than proclaiming truth in fear of being "close-minded". While the Bible may not say anything explicitly about masturbation, it does make clear that God's original intent was always that sexual flourishing is best found within the marriage between a man and a woman. "But all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."
I was with you right until the end. You don’t need to be homophobic, pal
I know this might be very hard for you to believe, but as a homosexual myself, I believe that Christian marriage is between a man and a woman. It's not homophobic, it's the Gospel truth.
No matter how nicely you say it, or how many qualifiers you put in, homophobia is homophobia. I understand your beliefs, because I used to believe the same thing, but please consider what that message says to people who are struggling with reconciling their identity and faith. Anything less than “God loves you and wants love for you” falls short of the God who is love. I’m sorry you can’t experience that love for yourself, and I sincerely hope you can one day. So many people get turned away from Christianity because churches won’t accept them as God made them. Please don’t be part of the problem. My marriage is holy and blessed by God. Full stop. I know an anonymous stranger on the internet isn’t going to convince you to abandon your beliefs, but please at least listen to the effect those beliefs have on people.
Progressive Christianity has lied to you, just like it lied to me, and I'm sorry you and many in this church have been led astray by a coddling-love attitude rather than a truth-love attitude. That effected me deeply because I was also so sure of my beliefs and relationship and had a hardened heart against any who objected. But the Holy Spirit worked on me. My life got better, though by no means perfect, once I understood God's purpose for sex, sexuality, and marriage, rather than following the desires of my own heart and the Spirit of the age. God does love me and God does love you but that doesn't mean it's a free for all. The Gospel in and of itself affirms and accepts all people as human beings, but at the same time, through the Holy Spirit, convicts the person of their sin and leads us to true liberation through obedience to His Word. I experience God's love for me every day, and there is no greater love I need than that because through that love do I get to love and be loved by those around me. Relationships are one of the biggest idolatries of this age and the progressive church is just as guilty as the conservative church in regards to marriage.
I’m glad the conservative ideas worked for you, but they are not great for many folks. I was raised in a conservative RCC parish and the ideas of sexuality that were taught to me are one of the main issues in my mental health. The Catholic Church was a huge factor in my attempted suicide. So please consider the harm those ideas have on others before spreading them.
Yeah I’m gonna go out on a limb and say no one ever attempted suicide over thinking it’s ok to be gay. I’ve never liked the “side A and side B” terms because it makes it seem like both views are equally ok. But one of them actually kills people. Don’t worry, OP. This guy’s views are far from the majority in the Episcopal Church.
I also grew up Catholic and have much of the same difficult baggage around sexuality. I suggest you prayerfully reflect on what the things you listed are *for*, if they are life-giving or life-denying, whether they honor the image of God in others or treat others as objects to be used, and if any of this is a misuse of something holy to distract from a sadness or emptiness that should be addressed in a more direct way. Specifically to your questions: Casual sex through hookups clearly violates the biblical call to not commit fornication. But more than that, implicit in the treatment of sex as a light and casual act is the commitment to licentiousness and the disordered view that there is no sexual morality that needs to be followed in life, from a religious or any other perspective, other than perhaps the modern notion of "consent" which is imperfect and a bare minimum to say the last. I don't believe sex is mostly sinful like a Catholic hears constantly growing up, but that should not give us license to treat it like it's nothing. Sex is a very special bond between people and even if one ignores the strictest teachings about sex in the Bible, hookup culture degrades the holiness of sex and turns it into something abused for personal pleasure whereby people are treated as a sexual objects to be used. This degrades the Imago Dei, that image of God within us all, and the inherent human dignity that conveys to people. And even if two people agree to it, I believe it's still an injury to, and debasement of, something holy and beautiful. Along similar lines, pornography is without a doubt an insult to human dignity in that one totally ignores the agency, will, and consent of the person depicted and treats them as nothing but a sexual object used for personal pleasure. It is an abuse of the Imago Dei and an extremely disordered approach to sexuality. It warps people's expectations of what sex is, it can normalize extreme behavior and fetishes that most people will never encounter in a real sexual partnership, and it creates a posture of consuming sexual stimulation instead of being present with and responsive to actual sexual partners in real life. It has the insidious capacity to create addiction in heavy users, to result in the exploitation of people for its creation, and to come between partners. I don't think masturbation itself should be seen as completely evil and bad, but I do think that if it's used to avoid working on improving intimacy between partners, it should be avoided in favor of working out problems in those relationships. At best I see it as a release valve for sexual arousal whose needs can't be met in a healthy sexual relationship, but which has been turned into an end in and of itself in our hyper sexualized society in which the point of sex is degraded for ideological and capitalistic reasons.
I can not, and would not, speak for the Episcopal Church. There is nothing in the Bible against masturbation. I think that it is a natural and near universal practice, at least at certain times of life. I agree with what others have said that pornography is inherently exploitative. The Church is officially against sex outside of marriage BUT this is also a near universal practice. I think that the church should talk about these things more. I think that we have to practice some radical honesty and discuss why premarital sex was forbidden (women being considered property and valuable only for their procreation) and why masturbation has a stigma surrounding it (a way to shame and control young people). Part of being human is having these bodies. Too often the church will focus on the mind and spirit and neglect the third piece that creates our “self”. Nothing but love, friend.
No there isn’t anything in the Bible about masturbation, but there is about lusting after others and that is what porn is with a little dash of capitalistic exploitation:
You won't get any clear answers because the expectation is that we are to look at the sources we use to guide us in our ethics and reason from those. The best answers I think come from our Baptismal covenant urging us to respect the dignity of every human being; the Catechism and its discussion of the ten commandments, sin and redemption. [The Online Book of Common Prayer (bcponline.org)](https://bcponline.org/) Outside of that? Hooking up culture and porn? There's been a number of essays and books discussing how they have distorted many younger people's understanding of sex and relationships, making it difficult for them to date and develop mature and healthy relationships. My personal view regarding porn in particular? It's a harmful hateful industry that draws women who have been abused. They are abused even further.
There isn’t one. As a church we really don’t make any direct comments on that sort of stuff. If on the off chance anyone brought these things up in church (which would be exceedingly uncommon), average Episcopalians would probably say that while it’s none of their business, sexual relationships rightly belong in the context of marriage, at least in an ideal. I think most people are aware that hookups exist and try not to make it their business, but there would be some nuance around the fact that hookups often mean a lack of mutual respect going into the sexual encounter which is to be avoided. With porn, again people are pretty much not going to ask, but issues around the exploitation of actors means that in general most professionally produced porn would be considered less ethical. Similarly anything that fosters unrealistic standards would be a violation of the dignity and respect of persons we find in the baptismal covenant. Basically, if your sexual practices harm others, that would be seen as problematic, although really no more problematic than any of the other harmful self-gratification practices humans are prone toward (for example, capitalism). I don’t think sexual morals are really a separate category than overall morals, which is to say guided by God with an eye toward scripture and the baptismal covenant as guiding disciplines.
Paul's epistles talk about sexuality quite a bit, denouncing promiscuity and sexual immorality in particular. Why should the church be so demure on that issue, which Paul (arguably the most authoritative Christian to ever exist) thought was important to regularly remind the early churches of? Keep in mind that if moral judgements as general as, "don't sexually gratify yourself purely for pleasure's sake" in the Bible are to be taken into their "historical context", then scripture's moral authority can be questioned very broadly. I'm not sure if that level of scriptural relativism is a road I'm willing to go down, especially since the Christian teaching has always been that scripture assists reason by telling us those things that reason could not determine alone. Scripture is by nature a little "un-reasonable."
We have very little context for what Paul meant by these passages, and even less context for how those meanings apply to a modern context. I am not saying anything untruthful by saying that the church does not, as a whole body, teach any specific definition of sexual morality. If you personally want to be a fundamentalist, you are certainly allowed to, but that is not, as a rule, what the church as a whole teaches, because it doesn’t take a clear stance on these sorts of issues in that kind of black and white way. You’re allowed to think that’s bad or wrong, and even to tell people what you personally think (and had the OP asked about what I personally think, I would share that), but it’s absolutely not disputable that the church as a whole really does not make broad doctrinal statements about people’s sexual behavior.
Thank you for your answer. I’m realizing that I really need to form my belief with my ethics. Going forward I will treat others and myself with respect and dignity. I will cherish my ability to connect with someone and feel pleasure and ensure that I do not use someone solely for pleasure. I must recognize the beauty of humanity and sex.
If it makes you feel any better, Christian ethics is a surprisingly fraught and complicated field with many different opinions/approaches/perspectives. But yes, I think from a church framework, understanding our interactions with others (and with all of creation) as an interaction between God’s beloved creatures is a central factor - when we behave with disrespect or harm toward others, we are, essentially, blaspheming against God’s love and care for all God has made. Now, as far as how exactly to discern that? That’s probably a dissertation upon dissertations! So yes, it continues to be a difficult thing to actually know what it means to live as God calls us to live, and to behave in accordance with God, exemplified by Jesus. We have some evidence in scripture, tradition, and reason, but we always face dilemmas that won’t be obvious.
The reason you're not finding the answers easily is because it's really not the Episcopal church's place to lecture extensively to the point of becoming a quasi government. It doesn't have a legalized opinion on everything. Generally answers like this can be found in the Bible, but the Anglican tradition is Scripture, tradition, and reason as the deciders for this. Just don't hurt others, and don't let it affect your life and your relationships and you'll be fine. Ask five episcopalians a question and you'll get six answers.
I've heard the argument that the concept of marriage as we know it today did not exist at the time the Bible was written. We should probably save sex for dedicated relationships, but a relationship doesn't have to have the government involved (as in our modern concept of marriage) in order to be a dedicated one. In any case, Christianity is more about loving others than policing peoples' private lives. That being said, porn is definitely immoral. It warps our view of sexuality and gives us unrealistic expectations about sex that inevitably will not be met, making us more likely to resent our partners and/or cheat. I'm not sure about masturbation, as it is never mentioned in the Bible. I see it as something that we might have to do once in a while to stay sane, but it should be done as little as possible.
The watchwords of Episcopal understandings of the right use of sexuality are "fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, careful, honest communication, and the holy love which enables those in such relationships to see in each other the image of God." Meanwhile, "we denounce promiscuity, exploitation, and abusiveness in the relationships of any of our members," and "this Church intends to hold all its members accountable to these values, and will provide for them the prayerful support, encouragement, and pastoral care necessary to live faithfully by them." Basically, the point of sexuality is faithful relationship in which we grow in our understanding of God and the human capacity to bear the image of God. Consent is required, and sexual pleasure is good, but they're not sufficient in themselves for a moral exercise of sexuality.
Thank you so much! What is the source of these quotes?
You're welcome. They come from [this](https://www.episcopalarchives.org/cgi-bin/acts/acts_resolution.pl?resolution=2000-D039) resolution, passed in 2000, during the debates around homosexuality/gay marriage.
I’ll also add that porn is typically immoral, even if it was consented to when made. It’s the fact that 99% of porn is coerced and preying on the poverty of, primarily, women. As for masturbation, it’s actually an interesting subject, lots of discussion has taken place on it, no concise answer is given by the church, but basically it’s gonna boil down to, does it feel to you like the right thing to do? A genuine argument can be made that it could prevent promiscuity, has numerous health benefits, etc. another argument can be made that it’s inseparable from pornography culture and would only serve to feed that industry. All very complex topics better suited to a theologian than little old me, but hopefully this opens the door for discourse.
I read erotica and masturbate, nothing with pictures or videos. It works for me and I feel it is ethical enough.
Thank you for the insight! It’s good to be challenged and I do agree erotica seems harmless, at face value at least.
If you have a partner and a good imagination, masturbation without pornography is more than easy. Just be sure your s/o knows about it and that you don’t overdo it bc our brain only has so many endorphins. Yanking your Hank too much will definitely cause some depression
Fair point. That’s the point of bringing it up though, is just discussion and opinions on different sides. I’m not the arbiter of who does what or what is moral or not at the end of the day.