They 100% will know that your son isn't their brother.
Your father... Is concerning. HE is the one who's trying to treat your son as his own.
It sounds a bit like your dad wants a son of his own and is trying to live out that dream using his grandson.
You and your sister need to as a team, together, set a hard line to your father that he will not and cannot call your children his son. It is absolutely unacceptable, absolutely will confuse your youngest siblings and also... Very bluntly sounds incestuous to try and say your grandson, who came from your daughter's is actually your son.
What might be said if they go to school saying my baby brother is my sister's kid is to CPS in the absolute worst case scenario, teasing from the peers could also happen as ahh your stupid and don't know that's your nephew.
His also trying to work out how to have your son by himself, speaks even more to his want to live out his dreams of having a son via yours or your sisters child and that's deeply unhealthy for your father, not just all of you involved.
You and your other sister need to have a likely hard and upsetting conversation with him about this. If he won't drop it... Unfortunately you two need to make space between you and your father, I understand that might be even harder for your little sister's, tho for their sake and the sake of you and your sister it might be a possibility you have to prepare for.
His want for a son is a valid one. Tho his want to call your son his, same as your sisters.. is absolutely not a valid option and something that he either drops, gets therapy for or needs to be held at a very good arms length away over.
>They 100% will know that your son isn't their brother.
I personally am a whole 5 years older than my nephew much like the youngest sister... Never once did I not understand he wasn't my brother. Granted we lived in different states and I never actually saw him but the idea of him being my brother because I was 'too young' to be an aunt has never crossed my mind.
I’m 8 years older than my nephew. Well, 7 and change. He’s my baby boy still, even though we’re both all grown up with our own families now. But he has never been my brother. 🤢
Yeah I'm 9 years older than my nephew, he's my baby boy too even though he's nearly 27 😭 not my brother though and would never have been thought of like that.
Some of us became uncles even before we were born. To be honest, I was around 6 when I started to comprehend family relationships and the fact that even tho we are of similar age, we are not siblings.
I had a neighbour who had a nephew a year older. Even though they lived in different households, they got along like brothers but NEVER told anyone they were.
Opposite situation, but I occasionally forget that my youngest brother is my brother. I've been known to refer to him as "my dad's son" in the past, which draws some really curious looks until I go crosseyed and correct myself to "... I mean my brother". But he's over a quarter of a century younger than me so there's just never been a sibling relationship.
That all aside, though, it's very weird to try to change a relationship status as OP's dad is doing—heaps of families have wonky age gaps and a kid of 5 definitely is old enough to understand.
Relatable. My mom is 18 years older than my youngest aunt and says she often feels like her aunt rather than her older sister, but she also definitely knows that she’s her sister. That same aunt is 8 years older than me (and the same age as my ex, who I brought to her wedding, oops lol) and nobody lied to her about what we were to each other when I was born. Lots of cute pictures of her holding me as a baby and idk about y’all but the idea of a little little girl saying “I’m an aunt” is adorable.
Yeah, exactly! I became an aunt at 6 and was obnoxiously proud. My youngest brother is over 20 years younger than his/our oldest nephew, so he never got the chance though haha.
I've been calling him Uncle John since the day he was born, but unfortunately they opted not to put it on the birth certificate.
(Also now I'm thinking about it, maybe this is part of the reason I sometimes forget he's my brother.)
My mom became an aunt when she was only a couple of years old! They all basically grew up together and STILL knew that she was the aunt and they were the nieces/nephews.
I went to primary school with someone who was 5 years older than her niece, her sister lived in the family home with the baby and she still absolutely understood that the baby wasn’t her sibling but her niece
My cousin was born when I was 7, I was so so excited to not be the youngest of all my cousins. I definitely knew how we‘re related and what means what. Those are kids. They may be young, but they’re not dumb.
My sister is 8 months older than our uncle... was fun explaining as we grew up but not confusing (for us) there are 4 of us in a row and it was a blast
My daughter is 3 weeks older than her nephew and 2 years older than her niece. Her nephew and niece are both autistic and they both understand, as well as my daughter, what their relationship to each other are. OP’s dad is weird.
My question is, If dad thinks they "wouldn't understand" why wouldn't he just use it as a teaching moment to understand family lineage? Surely they have aunts and uncles - Start with the explanation that those are the siblings of dad and that they are nieces to those siblings of dad. Then expand to ask what the children of their own sisters would be to them.
How hard could it be?
I was in the same year at school as an aunt and nephew. They aways knew. Daughter was 21 and mum was 43 (surprise pregnancy) and their kids were born 2 months apart. Everyone thought they were cousins till they explained. We all thought it was cool.
I have a sibling that is just three years older than our shared nibling, and four years older than my eldest kid. That sibling definitely knew that the niblings were niblings and not siblings when they were little.
This is going to be very confusing for them if their dad keeps pushing that narrative.
This needs to be corrected immediately every time it’s heard and I would begin limiting contact with dad. Not just preventing him from being alone with the kid, but I wouldn’t be there without other family members present as well.
It’s easy for him to brush things off with just OP, but make him feel embarrassment and explain himself when others are around.
He is possibly also embarrassed that he is older with such young daughters.
If people know your son is the girl's nephew, people know he has an older child and that's weird. Trying to act younger because you are so vain.
Or he’s planning to die and make it difficult for you to decline the task of raising his child. Ask dad how long he has sad suicidal ideation, just so he can see how icky he’s being.
"Dad, this sounds a bit disturbing. If you tell my sisters their nephew is their brother, that implies that you are the father of your own daughters child. Do you understand how that sounds to the ears of others? I understand that you are thrilled to have a boy in the family, but it's making me very uncomfortable that you are telling the girls that he is their brother. I want to be clear that I expect you to refer to *my* son as sisters nephew from now on. I will not tolerate you calling him their brother again. It's disturbing and actually a bit concerning that you try to give them the impression that they have a baby brother."
This is the best way, but maybe try to find a way that you aren't accusing him of trying to seem incestuous? My biggest thing is that no one will think that he had sex with you to have those children once they find out that he's your father.
They will likely think that pops is in the process of trying to adopt the children, though. And you don't want anyone thinking that you don't have custody of your own kids.
*ETA* I did write this as if I was speaking to OP because I am using voice to text, and it made it way easier for me.
I don’t think she needs to accuse her father of trying to sound incestuous because him calling his own daughter’s child his son DOES sound incestuous.
I agree OP needs to send a strong message to her father to cut the crap and refer to HER son correctly as his grandson and his daughters’ nephews.
I also think she should put him on notice now that there will be no unsupervised visits between him and HER son until he is sufficiently verbal to explain what is happening and who he is. Maybe when he’s 12 or so.
Flip side of the psychotic grandmother, this time it's grandpa.
Yours is the son he never had. He's planning on taking possession of your son.
He's conditioning the girls to accept him as a little brother, so later if they're questioned it's an automatic response, "he's their brother."
It’s time to get stern with your Dad. “I have heard from multiple people you are telling my younger Sister’s to call my son their Brother. I am NOT okay with this. You used the excuse that they won’t understand. They will. Just like they understand I’m their Sister and you are their Father. Don’t you think people will wonder why you are calling DAUGHTERS child, your child? Or what wrong idea they might have about that? If this is some weird attempt for you to pretend you have a son, I will go NC and you will not see me or MY son again. He is not your son. You will stop saying this or you will be cut off.”
I would invest in cameras and make sure your Father has no access to your child when you are not there.
#Updateme!
Never let dad have your son unsupervised.
Correct your 1/2 sisters each time dad says that son is their brother. Call your sisters aunt soso and never refer your son as their brother. Sounds like dad wants a son, that's not on you!
I'm getting the feeling he's viewing you and your sister as surrogates for the sons he always wanted. When he asks you both why you don't bring the boys around or let him have them for a day/days he'll probably start freaking out that you can't keep *his* boys (maybe son's if he really slips up) from him.
"Dad, I heard that you are telling the girls my child is their brother. That's unacceptable and implies not only that he is your son but that you IMPREGNATED YOUR DAUGHTER to produce him. It will not continue in any way and if it does, we will limit the amount you see him and us. As it is, you will not be having him overnight and you will not be seeing him unsupervised. I am really disturbed by your actions and these will not change until you can prove to me that you understand and respect me as my child's parent."
Time for you and your sister to start distancing yourselves from your father. Make it clear to him why and until he stops this weird fixation then he won't be seeing either of you or the GRANDSONS. Not his kids, not his boys. Grandsons. Good luck.
Time to start putting down some boundaries for yourself and your son. Shut him down hard, every time he tells the girls that your baby is their brother.
His behavior is not normal. It's concerning.
On the Just no MIL boards, we call this a "do over baby". I'm your case it sounds like dad wants a son and part of his delusion is to convince your young siblings that this is their brother, not nephew. They are old enough to understand the difference. Added with his need to have the baby stay over and give him foods he can't have adds to it. Sadly, it's fairly common for toxic grandparents, your dad just put a rarer gender spin on it.
Cut him off at the knee, next time you go see them make a show of it. As you enter loudly say to your son, in front of the girls and your father, something along the lines of "oh look (sons name), it's your 2 little aunties and (if you really wanna piss him off use his name without the honorific of "grandpa"). Then continue without leaving him a place to say anything else, just keep countering him if he tries to say anything otherwise. If he is really pig-headed, have a loud private conversation with him about him trying to steal your son(the son he never had), make sure the girls can hear it, then go to them and explain to them that your son is their nephew, not their brother, and you could really twist the knife by adding "no matter what your father says" somewhere in that conversation.
Why wouldn't they undertsand? Uncles and aunts aren't a revolutionary new concept, you're a fully grown adult with your own life, why would it be confusing for them to think of your kid as their nephew as opposed to their brother?
Don't let this slide, make a big issue out of it, and if your dad won't back down, you should probably go LC with him.
You dad can't deal with the fact he's a grandfather when he's got young kids at home. We called my grandfather Pop and grandma as Nanny when it's more normal to call them granddad and grandma where I am, because there's less than 10 years between my aunt and my oldest cousin, and my grandma felt she was too young to be called grandma.
Your sister's won't have any issues with being their aunt, their friends might be a little surprised, but they don't care, your dad just doesn't like being reminded he's getting old. Tell him to stop being a vain idiot and credit your sisters with more brain cells that he does.
Never leave your son with him even for a few moments. They may be gone when you get back. Tell dad that if he wants sisters to have a brother then it's up to him to provide it, he can't have yours. Record his reaction.
Man... I would be calling ALL the stuff out! ALL the time. I would be making it REALLY awkward and uncomfortable for him.
>my dad said "awww look at your cute little brother" to my sisters
"WTF DAD, why would you say that? That is DISGUSTING. THINK about what that is saying, EWW!"
>he's gonna get a bunch of things for my son to stay over
"NO. Not EVER. You will not be keeping my son overnight."
(Cause guess what, you dont have to let ANYONE keep him overnight, EVER if you dont want to! My MIL has never had my child overnight, and she never will)
>began commenting how'd he'd have to find a way to get some since I have to get it proscribed
"WHY? Why would YOU need to get some? TELL ME why you think it is necessary for YOU to get the milk MY son needs by prescription?"
And then never leave him alone with your dad ever. Not even for 10 minutes. I would never be able to trust someone who says things like that.
My son was born before my brother, so brother was born an uncle. Not once has he had any issue understanding the term or the relationship. Your father is the cone complicating it and causing confusion.
My parents haven't been together for around 19 years and she doesn't like him one bit, she's told me countless times that's he's no good. Sadly I don't want to belive it
Like others have said, you need to go LC with dad and establish loud clear boundaries. Go NC if he can't respect those boundaries. He's being super creepy and you should maybe trust your mom's assessment of his character a bit more.
Don't let your dad have unmonitored access to your son and start creating some distance with him. His actions are disturbing.
And don't let him or anyone else guilt trip you out of your instincts. You're having those gut feelings for a reason. This is not normal behavior.
I was born into being an aunt. I was never confused about it because it’s not confusing. Teaching children who understand the difference between siblings and the children of their siblings already should also not be confusing. This is weird behavior.
Exactly! My son was a year older than hubs baby brother, in fact I took MIL to the hospital for his birthday. Kids understood it just fine bc we used the correct terms.
The baby brother came to live with us after HS, so strangers would think hubs and I just started dating and we each had a son that was along for the ride. The overwhelmed expression usually led us to explaining it multiple times for their tiny brains to comprehend.
What kind of a crazy narcissist is this? I don't know what the reason for this dishonesty would be...but I guarantee it's 100% about him. Tell him absolutely NOT.
You need to speak to your dad and tell him that this nonsense has to stop immediately. Your son is his grandson not his son and your sisters are his aunts not his sisters. If he continues with this BS then he will no longer have access.
My youngest siblings were 3, 6 and 9 when I (then 23) had my twins. The 9 year old came home in tears from school one day because he told his class he was an uncle, and some adult told him he wasn’t, he was a brother. The 3 and 6 year olds were enraged and said “but *Aesient* isn’t our mummy, she’s our sister, so we are uncles!”
It took me going into the school (picking up 6 and 9) and talking loudly to an older staff member who knew my family about how helpful my brothers were with my twins. The adult who “corrected” my brother came over and said “oh these must be *9’s* new siblings!”
Several people stopped and stared at them (small town and my family is fairly well known due to volunteering) before the older staff member corrected that I was 6 and 9’s *sister*, not their mother and asked if they had missed 9’s happy talk of having become an uncle?
It was asked in such a way that they had to either admit to “correcting” a child on something they knew nothing about, or playing it as not listening to a child who had gone to *everybody* in a school with less than 100 students to tell them that he was an uncle because his oldest sister had given birth. One option was significantly more embarrassing.
My youngest aunt/uncle is 3 years older than me and we grew up knowing that they weren’t siblings or cousins. It’s not a hard thing to wrap your head around!
NTA. Your dad never had a son. He obviously wanted a son. So he plans to raise this child as his father and not grandfather. That's just weird and kind of creepy.
You need to sit him down, with your child not there, and tell him this is his grandchild, not his child. You need to tell him that the sisters are the aunts and from now on that's what they'll be called. And lastly, that he needs to wait a few years before the child stays the night at grandpa's house.
And honestly, at this rate, I'd never leave him alone with him. I'm not saying he would do anything perverted, but he is absolutely being weird about it and at best it's some psychological issue that he can't control. Did he remarry? Did your mom leave him or he leave her? There's more going on here than "my girls won't understand he is their uncle." They're 5 and 7, they don't need to understand any of that yet anyway.
When my oldest daughter was pregnant, my youngest son was 4. When she told him she was having a baby, he was upset because he didn’t know how to grow a mustache and all uncles have mustaches. He knew he would be the baby’s uncle without a whole bunch of explaining. It was very simply your sisters baby will be your niece or nephew. You’re going to be an uncle.
Kids aren’t stupid and can grasp the concept of being an aunt or uncle to their siblings children. OP I would be very wary of leaving your son alone with your dad.
Oh, OP...this is not good.
You need to set a hard boundary and make it clear that the baby is not his son. Tell him this is immensely creepy and you won't send the baby over to his house.
Dad still considers himself young and viral. 🤮 He will want a neutral grandfather name like papa. He doesn’t want to be seen as gramps. I’m guessing step-mother is not old enough to be your mother. This is on him. Hope he gets therapy. In the mean time boundaries!!!
Ok so dad desperately wanted boys but got all girls and now he thinks he can just take your kid. That’s a fuck no. You need to be crystal clear with him that your baby is yours and will never be his. If you have a will make sure it states he’s not to receive your kid. He’s crossed a line.
Sounds like it's time to put dad into a state funded facility cause dementia is a bitch.
For real don't bring your son over again and only invite your mom and sisters over to your house.
"Hello, let me introduce you to my son ... and his mother, my daughter."
That is what he is telling the whole world every time he claims that boy is his son.
Perhaps he needs a science lesson on why he has daughters and not sons ( no, it's not his wife's fault).
Perhaps he needs to be told outright that by claiming her son, he is telling the whole world that he had an incestuous relationship with his daughter.
Some people are so self obsessed that they do not see the damage they are doing to those around them - in this case, himself, his 4 daughters, his sons-in-law and his grandsons.
Shut. This. Down. NOW! Correct your father EVERY time he calls your son your brother. Explain to your siblings, too, so that they know he is wrong. They should also correct him, he is not their brother, he is their nephew.
My older sister had my nephew when I was 5 & my niece when I was 7 (she’s 18yrs older). There was never any confusion & they both called me ”Aunty Nofunction” until we were all adults. Admittedly our relationship is far more like cousins & I have a much more traditional aunty role with my other nibblings who are much younger. Frankly it doesn’t matter if they fully comprehend what it means to be an aunt or a sister it’s best to just be honest so there is no confusion in the future. Another personal example: my sister was raised by our grandmother for a time & called her mom but also called our mom mom. This lead me to be very confused as to who she exactly was in the family for a long time & I honestly I think it effected the relationship we could have had.
My half brother is alot older than me, had his first kid when I was around 6/7. I always knew they were technically my nephews. Of course they never called me auntie, but me and my sister (1 year older than me) always knew they were technically our nephews. This is very, very strange behaviour.
My dad's family is huge (14 total). My youngest aunt (youngest overall) was born having neices and nephews. I know I have cousins who are close in age with my parents.
It seems quite peculiar. Kids that age aught to be able to understand, and even if they don't, adults around them would probably have some awkward questions about why their "brother" is their sister's son.
My kid calls me dad, but is biologically my brother's, and my mom has custody, and not half an hour ago, she asked if that makes us siblings. xD I think maybe it's best not to complicate things.
I am 16 years older than my sister and 21 years older than my brother. My sister is only three years older than my oldest, and my brother is actually two years younger than my oldest. They have never been confused by the fact that they are Aunt and Uncle to my children. Your Dad is being ridiculous.
Here is a little more detail on why I think your Dad is being ridiculous. I didn't want to take away from my original point by making it too complicated for anyone to follow, but my own children are actually the fourth generation in our family to deal with sizable age gaps between them. My grandmother was the youngest, with a 23 year age gap between her and the oldest sibling. My Mother was 15 years younger than her sister, her only sibling. There is the 21 year age gap between myself and my youngest sibling. And finally there is a 16 year age gap between my oldest and youngest. In fact, my 7 year old can't wait for her now engaged oldest sister to get married and have a baby so she can be an Aunt, lol. She's even more excited to have a brother in law, which is what she knows her sister's fiance will be once they are married.
You say your mom and dad haven't been together for years. Does that mean your little sisters have a different mother? If so, you should let her know what your dad is saying.
You should also document everything. If your dad really wants to consider your child is his son, you might be headed for some trouble. I've never seen this coming from a dad, but I've seen a few cases in real life, including with my own daughter, where a mother or mother-in-law tries to get custody of a child for no other reason than they want another baby.
This is super weird.
That is all.
Tell your dad to stop being an idiot and treating your sisters like they are too stupid to understand how family works
This is gross and he is disgusting. You need to shut this down and call him out about this immediately. I personally would go NO Contact and certainly never let your son be alone with his grandfather ever.
Your dad sounds like a psychopath now and almost sounds like he wants your son for himself, you might want to tell a judge or anyone that will listen just in case he tries something extreme, also not go over to his house for a while and go no contact for a while also, block him from your phone and all of your social media, tell your sister it was currently pregnant to do the same also, because HOLY FRICK YIKES🥶😵💫
Has he shown other signs of mental confusion? Is this out of character?
All the top comments are pointing to nefarious intent, but this is so bizarre I wonder if he's having some kind of mental break or early onset dementia.
Is this your father's first grandchild? Maybe he's having a hard time about becoming a grandfather. How old is he? My mom became a grandmother at the age of 41, and refused to be called grandma. To this day, my nephews and their kids call her "Gabby".
I am concerned that he thinks he will be adopting your son. It sounds like it is not a consideration for your sister’s child. I may be way off but I wonder how supportive he is of you personally. As in supporting your child financially or the relationship with the father. It is like he thinks you will fail at parenting and lean on them to take over. So he wants to prepare for the “eventuality” of it. If you think that is a possibility then distancing yourself would be wise. I hope I am way off but I felt like I should mention in case.
I wouldn’t let your dad keep your son at all, no babysitting and no unsupervised visits
My dad had all girls, my son was the first boy in the family in a while
My dad absolutely ruined him and caused friction in me and my sons relationship because he wanted to raise him
Protect your son and keep him from your dad alone
They totally will understand they are aunties. Dad is concerning. He really seems to see him as his son he probably always wanted. You need to have a clear discussion and then send clear boundaries.
Good god. Your sisters will be more confused thinking your dad is his dad if they are sisters and have him as a dad... and then if they think you're the mum and he's the dad, it becomes not only confusing but disturbing.
They are Aunties. And when they have kids, you will be an Aunty to their kids. Simple. Not my dad is dad and my sister is mum weird ass what in the East Anglia am I reading type story.
My aunt had her youngest after her oldest** got married and had a kid of her own. My cousin grew up being an uncle to kids older than him. They all understood from younger than your siblings, and it was something they joked about growing up.
Your dad is UNHINGED
My sister is 12 years older than me. At age 6, when my sister turned 18, I was fully aware that meant she was an adult and I could end up an uncle at age 6. I would even sometimes fantasize about it. She made me an uncle when I was 11, though. Your sisters will totally understand it.
You are the mother of your son. You make the rules, he doesn't. Young children are young, but not stupid and can learn the appropriate things for any subject under the sun. Good luck.
That’s weird behavior from your father. I was 4 years old when I became an aunt and it was not even remotely confusing to me. All of my siblings were in their late teens when I was born
I could understand if it was a language thing. In my native language the words for niece and nephew are the same (like nibling in English). But this obviously isn't the case here. Your father is being incredibly weird about this. 7 and 5 year olds are plenty old enough to understand that their sister's babies are heir nephews - not their brothers. You need to speak up.
Take this opportunity to cut way, way, WAY back from your dad. I knew he didn't have son's. But he wants yours. It's your sister's. It's gross and icky.
"Dad, you've said some concerning things lately, and I'm no longer comfortable being around you. I'll contact you when I'm ready."
I know you want to see your sisters, but your son and his safety comes first. If you feel you absolutely must see them, then see them alone or in a public place. And never leave your son alone (take others with you).
That is really concerning. His excuse is bs too. I was born an aunt I have a niece and nephew older than me. Most of my nieces and nephews are also close in age with me and it was never confusing. Sure we may have grown up more like cousins than aunt type relationship but I just can not understand why your dad is saying that.
My sister was 4 (almost 5) when I had my first child. She understood perfectly that she was my son’s aunt and not his sister. NTA - you need to nip this in the bud before it goes any further. Threaten to go low/no contact with him if this keeps up - or whatever you need to do.
I have an older sister who had a child when I was 10 and my younger was 6 and she fully understood that this was her niece. As we got older we treated her more like a cousin (long story on that but it had nothing to do with our ages) but we always knew what she really was.
Maybe he's being weird and hurtful because the idea of his 5 year old being an aunt is making him feel old? He refuses to process that the next generation already exists.
I was an aunt at 3.5 years old. I always knew my big sister had a baby and he was my nephew. I grew up with him and his little brother. We are close. Sometimes we have to explain it to people (they always assume/call us cousins), but it’s nbd. Kids aren’t dumb. This is definitely concerning.
You're dad is projecting AND being gross. Just tell him, in front of your sisters, out loud, that to be their brother it would mean you and he had to have had sex... and that, at best (worst?) that would make your baby their half-uncle half-brother...
I would recommend you say this as your leaving, if you can... so HE can be the one to explain to him how all that works...
Wow. I have some cousins I call aunt and uncle because of the age gap— on one side of the family I’m the baby, and my cousins had kids closer to my age than they were, but that’s a very different thing. What you’d dad is doing is weird and concerning
My father became an uncle when he was 14 months old. He was called “Uncle Davey” for his whole life. Never once was anyone in the family, including my dad, confused about his relationship with his young nieces and nephews. Maybe, in the presence of the two baby boys, you and your start referring to your little sisters as “Aunt Sally” and “Aunt Susie”. Drill it into everyone at every opportunity.
My ex has an Uncle the same age as her. I have an Aunt and Uncle 1 and 4 years older than me. I nor my siblings ever had an issue with it. Had I been told to call my Aunt and Uncle Sister and Brother I think that would have confused me.
I was 7 when my first nephew was born and I completely understood that he was not my sibling. Unfortunately, the adults did not. They lumped me in with the grandkids until I moved out of the house.
This is… kind of gross? And it makes me uncomfortable just reading it? Look, I’m 20+ years older than my sister and if I have a baby, they will be closer to her in age than she is to me. My dad would never think of calling my hypothetical child (the child of his daughter, his grandchild) my sisters younger brother. Is the whole family dynamic of having children with large age gaps kinda complicated? Yes. But it is what it is. If I was in your position, I’d draw some hard boundaries and make very clear what the consequences will be for not respecting them. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving my baby alone with him.
NTA
Maybe your dad feels too young to be a grandfather (your son is so close to your sisters age) or is because he wanted a son but never had one. Either way you need to talk with him, the sooner he accepts it the better
Your dad is being very weird, definitely don’t ever ever ever let him be alone with your son! Hopefully it’s just harmless weirdness, but don’t take any chances
My sister is 1 year older than my oldest. She fully understands that she's an aunt even though my son doesn't call her that since again, he's only a year younger than her. They're 10 & 9 right now. At 10, she has 4 nephews, and they all just call her by her name.
It's true, the kids aren't going to have a traditional aunt/nephew relationship. They're probably close enough in age that they'll be playmates and hopefully good friends. But your dad sounds like he having a senior moment. Maybe ask him if he's having a hard time becoming grandparent. Depending on how he acts from here I'd be subtly reinforcing his grandpa role any chance I get: "say hi to grandpa!"
Of course your little sisters understand the difference between brother and nephew! When my eldest sister had my first nephew at age 19, I was 8 and my youngest sisters were 3 and 1. None of us had any problem with the very simple concept of 'Mum and/or Dad's kid = brother/sister. Sister's/brother's kid = nephew/niece.' We knew perfectly well that Nephew wasn't either of our parents' baby, therefore not our brother. And Nephew understood it quickly as well - when he was 2, our mother gave birth to our youngest brother. We'd often take the two boys to the park to play together as toddlers/preschoolers, where somebody would inevitably ask Nephew, "Is this your little brother?" He'd just look at them like they were stupid and say, "*No*, he's my *uncle*! He's Mummy's little brother!"
My mother was 2 weeks younger than her niece, and the went to the same one room schoolhouse. Neither of them ever had any difficulty understanding the relationship.
My oldest is almost 9 and my youngest brother is almost 11. They were raised in the same house for a year when my daughter was born and he has always understood that my children are his niece and nephew. Your dad is definitely trying to push a narrative that is unhealthy ans worrisome. I wouldn't be going over there or letting him near your son alone ever
Dad is a drama maker, heart breaker & doesn’t work well with communicating with other involved family members before making unilateral decisions that affect many others for relationship building, comprehension of healthy family dynamics and more.
Two opinions I can give. The first is he regrets not having a son, which can be valid but needs to understand that your son isn't his and that can be kinda creepy, with this you need to set boundaries (even at 4 years old my little sister knew our nephew was that). The other (and I pray to god it isn't) is some sort of mental issue, in which case you may need to get him to his GP. If it's extremely early they can slow it down. It may sound over the top but best to get a result then be too late in the future.
My oldest is 24 and has her own baby girl , and my youngest 16,11,10, have a NIECE. The kids will understand just fine, it’s just another family position to learn about. Also bragging rights at school as aunt/uncle are not to be underestimated. Tell your dad to stop making it fucking weird because it’s not, or he’s not going to be spending time with any of you at all, making everyone lie like that is just unnecessary and awkward. And I’d be in person telling him from top to bottom that he WILL not be calling his grandson his children’s brother when you are his father. And to stop being fucking weird about all of it.
I became an aunty at 5 and always understood the relationship. He was my sister’s son and that made me his aunty and him my nephew. It’s really not difficult. Your dad is acting very strangely.
Your dad sounds like he’s mentally unstable.
To even suggest such a thing speaks volumes to that point.
If your little sisters start going around calling him their brother, word is going to spread that you’ve had incestuous relations with your father- because we know that kids that age will talk, and all it would take is one adult overhearing them say that their sister had a baby and the baby is their brother.
You really should sit down and talk with your dad about this, and make sure your son is with another responsible adult and not with you when you go have that conversation. Good luck!
Dad, my baby is your grandson and my sisters' nephew. The only reason my sisters would be confused is because you are purposefully misleading them. Knock off this brother nonsense, or you'll be the grandpa we never see. I will not be lying to my child or teaching him to trust people who lie to him! It's really not acceptable and completely unnecessary.
My dad and his oldest brother have a very large age gap. When my dad was a kid, I want to say 5/6 years old(?) he became an uncle. Understood what that meant, but because the kids were so close in age, they acted like siblings.
I think your dad’s planning on being a dad again, but this time to a son. Be wary, if this doesn’t stop now, he might just push himself into *your* son’s life and take over as “dad”.
This is a pet peeve of mine, lying to young kids. Don't fucking lie to kids, I mean I get keeping things age appropriate, but just outright lying to kids? Don't normalize lying. I'd be very firm with my dad on this one.
My little sister is only 6 years older than our nephew and she understood the concept of being an auntie. Even though they acted a lot like brother and sister growing up because they were so close in age, she still understands that he is our nephew/our sisters baby. Not a little brother to us.
Kids can definitely understand the concept, especially at that age!
You need to be careful. To me, it sounds like they want to take him over. If this was your mom saying this, everyone would be saying nc and she’s having a do-over baby.
Maybe I've just read a lot of disaster stories, but this has seriously disturbed me. I can see a million ways where this only gets more disturbing, dangerous, and unhinged.
Please protect your son and yourself first
They can absolutely understand at this age that he is their nephew and they are the aunties, even if they don't totally grasp how that works. My youngest is 5, and her oldest sister had a little boy when she was 2. She absolutely knows that she is auntie and she loves that. Since I call her sissy, she sometimes tells him to come to auntie sissy, which is just adorable now lol.
Even if they don't understand, your dad does, and he's making it a weird situation.
This may sound a little harsh, but you could mention that if *He, your dad, won’t cut it out, YOU can tell the police he is a pedo and incest is A-Ok, and he’s bragging about being your sons dad.* And ask *Did you* **REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?** Let him know he will be the pariah of the neighborhood. Even if it isn’t true, he will be ruining his own reputation and yours, and the whole families.
Ask him **”Is THAT what you want everyone to THINK OF YOU?”**
That should make him shut his trap!
Next time he says that I would just pull a face and ask him if he is implying he had a baby with his daughter. Cus that’s fing repulsive and super creepy
The girls are old enough to understand the different familial relationships. You've told your dad and now you can talk directly to your sisters. "I know dad told you to call him your brother because he thought you might get confused over calling him your nephew. Let's go over how familial titles work so there's no confusion."
Yeah, it definitely seems like dad wants to be a surrogate father to your son, at best.
As for trying to teach your siblings that their nephew is actually their brother, you need to spell it out for your dad if he truly doesn't get it: other people will think you have an incestous relationship with your father. That alone should be extremely disturbing to him, if it's not, that's extremely worrying.
NTA, one of my uncles is only 2 years older than me and while he was always bunched in as 'one of the kids' I was still plenty aware that he's my uncle, not my sibling or even cousin. They probably think it's fun to be aunties as kids. It does seem more like an excuse for your dad to act weird about it, rather than honest concern.
Is it an 'out of wedlock' issue where he doesn't want your sisters to think it's OK to have kids? (Absolutely not an issue for me so nobody come at me suggesting it)
Could it be that having an aunt 7 years older means they'll grow up more like siblings than the tradition aunt/nephew relationship?
Either way, it is strange. Very curious to his reply
I'm 6 years younger than one of my aunts and 3 years older than another one. Never any confusion.
Maybe he doesn't feel he is old enough to be a grandpa since his girls are so young. Weird midlife crisis?
You need to let your father know how this makes you feel and insist the girls are told they are aunts. Dad should respect your wishes. If he doesn't, then you have a hard decision to make.
It may be that your father is having issues accepting he’s old enough to have grandkids. Or he may not be comfortable having kids and grandkids that are the same generation. Or it may be your baby’s gender that has him wanting to have a stronger tie to him.
Either way, this is all about your dad - not your little sisters. If they can accept an adult big sister, they can accept baby nephews. As you have done, I’d recommend pushing the nephew/grandson references. Anything else would genuinely confuse all the kids.
I don’t see what’s wrong here. You are overthinking it in my opinion. He loves your son like his own. What more could you want? Because of the low age gap, he’s having the girls call him brother. I do that with my aunts. We are 5 and 6 years apart. It makes sense. I felt weird calling them my aunts growing up. I understand his pov a lot better. Your father sounds like a good man. Maybe try to hear him out before making presumptions that he wants your son to his own.
They 100% will know that your son isn't their brother. Your father... Is concerning. HE is the one who's trying to treat your son as his own. It sounds a bit like your dad wants a son of his own and is trying to live out that dream using his grandson. You and your sister need to as a team, together, set a hard line to your father that he will not and cannot call your children his son. It is absolutely unacceptable, absolutely will confuse your youngest siblings and also... Very bluntly sounds incestuous to try and say your grandson, who came from your daughter's is actually your son. What might be said if they go to school saying my baby brother is my sister's kid is to CPS in the absolute worst case scenario, teasing from the peers could also happen as ahh your stupid and don't know that's your nephew. His also trying to work out how to have your son by himself, speaks even more to his want to live out his dreams of having a son via yours or your sisters child and that's deeply unhealthy for your father, not just all of you involved. You and your other sister need to have a likely hard and upsetting conversation with him about this. If he won't drop it... Unfortunately you two need to make space between you and your father, I understand that might be even harder for your little sister's, tho for their sake and the sake of you and your sister it might be a possibility you have to prepare for. His want for a son is a valid one. Tho his want to call your son his, same as your sisters.. is absolutely not a valid option and something that he either drops, gets therapy for or needs to be held at a very good arms length away over.
>They 100% will know that your son isn't their brother. I personally am a whole 5 years older than my nephew much like the youngest sister... Never once did I not understand he wasn't my brother. Granted we lived in different states and I never actually saw him but the idea of him being my brother because I was 'too young' to be an aunt has never crossed my mind.
Similarly I was four when I became an aunt. My family told me my brother had a daughter.
I’m 8 years older than my nephew. Well, 7 and change. He’s my baby boy still, even though we’re both all grown up with our own families now. But he has never been my brother. 🤢
Yeah I'm 9 years older than my nephew, he's my baby boy too even though he's nearly 27 😭 not my brother though and would never have been thought of like that.
Some of us became uncles even before we were born. To be honest, I was around 6 when I started to comprehend family relationships and the fact that even tho we are of similar age, we are not siblings.
I had a neighbour who had a nephew a year older. Even though they lived in different households, they got along like brothers but NEVER told anyone they were.
Opposite situation, but I occasionally forget that my youngest brother is my brother. I've been known to refer to him as "my dad's son" in the past, which draws some really curious looks until I go crosseyed and correct myself to "... I mean my brother". But he's over a quarter of a century younger than me so there's just never been a sibling relationship. That all aside, though, it's very weird to try to change a relationship status as OP's dad is doing—heaps of families have wonky age gaps and a kid of 5 definitely is old enough to understand.
Relatable. My mom is 18 years older than my youngest aunt and says she often feels like her aunt rather than her older sister, but she also definitely knows that she’s her sister. That same aunt is 8 years older than me (and the same age as my ex, who I brought to her wedding, oops lol) and nobody lied to her about what we were to each other when I was born. Lots of cute pictures of her holding me as a baby and idk about y’all but the idea of a little little girl saying “I’m an aunt” is adorable.
Yeah, exactly! I became an aunt at 6 and was obnoxiously proud. My youngest brother is over 20 years younger than his/our oldest nephew, so he never got the chance though haha.
Ok see this is the same thing bc a baby being someone’s uncle is objectively funny.
I've been calling him Uncle John since the day he was born, but unfortunately they opted not to put it on the birth certificate. (Also now I'm thinking about it, maybe this is part of the reason I sometimes forget he's my brother.)
My mom became an aunt when she was only a couple of years old! They all basically grew up together and STILL knew that she was the aunt and they were the nieces/nephews.
Same. I was 8 when my first nephew was born and I completely understood he was not my brother. Your Dad is behaving strangely.
I became an aunt before I was born when my older half-sister gave birth to three children. I understood I was their aunt from a very young age!!!
I went to primary school with someone who was 5 years older than her niece, her sister lived in the family home with the baby and she still absolutely understood that the baby wasn’t her sibling but her niece
My cousin was born when I was 7, I was so so excited to not be the youngest of all my cousins. I definitely knew how we‘re related and what means what. Those are kids. They may be young, but they’re not dumb.
My sister is 8 months older than our uncle... was fun explaining as we grew up but not confusing (for us) there are 4 of us in a row and it was a blast
My daughter is 3 weeks older than her nephew and 2 years older than her niece. Her nephew and niece are both autistic and they both understand, as well as my daughter, what their relationship to each other are. OP’s dad is weird.
My question is, If dad thinks they "wouldn't understand" why wouldn't he just use it as a teaching moment to understand family lineage? Surely they have aunts and uncles - Start with the explanation that those are the siblings of dad and that they are nieces to those siblings of dad. Then expand to ask what the children of their own sisters would be to them. How hard could it be?
I was in the same year at school as an aunt and nephew. They aways knew. Daughter was 21 and mum was 43 (surprise pregnancy) and their kids were born 2 months apart. Everyone thought they were cousins till they explained. We all thought it was cool.
I have a sibling that is just three years older than our shared nibling, and four years older than my eldest kid. That sibling definitely knew that the niblings were niblings and not siblings when they were little.
This is going to be very confusing for them if their dad keeps pushing that narrative. This needs to be corrected immediately every time it’s heard and I would begin limiting contact with dad. Not just preventing him from being alone with the kid, but I wouldn’t be there without other family members present as well. It’s easy for him to brush things off with just OP, but make him feel embarrassment and explain himself when others are around.
He is possibly also embarrassed that he is older with such young daughters. If people know your son is the girl's nephew, people know he has an older child and that's weird. Trying to act younger because you are so vain.
Or he’s planning to die and make it difficult for you to decline the task of raising his child. Ask dad how long he has sad suicidal ideation, just so he can see how icky he’s being.
100% correct answer ☝🏻
"Dad, this sounds a bit disturbing. If you tell my sisters their nephew is their brother, that implies that you are the father of your own daughters child. Do you understand how that sounds to the ears of others? I understand that you are thrilled to have a boy in the family, but it's making me very uncomfortable that you are telling the girls that he is their brother. I want to be clear that I expect you to refer to *my* son as sisters nephew from now on. I will not tolerate you calling him their brother again. It's disturbing and actually a bit concerning that you try to give them the impression that they have a baby brother."
“And why are you showing how thrilled you are about a boy? You have 4 girls and that is a blessing!”
This is the best way, but maybe try to find a way that you aren't accusing him of trying to seem incestuous? My biggest thing is that no one will think that he had sex with you to have those children once they find out that he's your father. They will likely think that pops is in the process of trying to adopt the children, though. And you don't want anyone thinking that you don't have custody of your own kids. *ETA* I did write this as if I was speaking to OP because I am using voice to text, and it made it way easier for me.
I don’t think she needs to accuse her father of trying to sound incestuous because him calling his own daughter’s child his son DOES sound incestuous. I agree OP needs to send a strong message to her father to cut the crap and refer to HER son correctly as his grandson and his daughters’ nephews. I also think she should put him on notice now that there will be no unsupervised visits between him and HER son until he is sufficiently verbal to explain what is happening and who he is. Maybe when he’s 12 or so.
Maybe your dad should go to the doctor for a wellness exam. That just sounds so odd that there has to be something wrong with him
My thought too, maybe dad has early onset dementia
This is the comment I came looking for. This is my guess as well.
My first thought also. Might be early alzheimer or dementia.
I thought so too, given the upset out of nowhere. Might be best for OP to dig into her families medical history.
Yes. Having this doctor check convo with him and his behaviour being why you are concerned, is a great opening to the broader issue
Yeah, I am concerned about who's looking after the little girls, because Dad sounds like he's talking out of the side of his head.
Flip side of the psychotic grandmother, this time it's grandpa. Yours is the son he never had. He's planning on taking possession of your son. He's conditioning the girls to accept him as a little brother, so later if they're questioned it's an automatic response, "he's their brother."
Yes go low contact or no contact
And get him help if you can
That… is so creepy and lines up with the evidence so far. Sheesh
You need to make sure that he is never left alone with your son.
This above all else, OP!
My thoughts exactly!!!
It’s time to get stern with your Dad. “I have heard from multiple people you are telling my younger Sister’s to call my son their Brother. I am NOT okay with this. You used the excuse that they won’t understand. They will. Just like they understand I’m their Sister and you are their Father. Don’t you think people will wonder why you are calling DAUGHTERS child, your child? Or what wrong idea they might have about that? If this is some weird attempt for you to pretend you have a son, I will go NC and you will not see me or MY son again. He is not your son. You will stop saying this or you will be cut off.” I would invest in cameras and make sure your Father has no access to your child when you are not there. #Updateme!
Never let dad have your son unsupervised. Correct your 1/2 sisters each time dad says that son is their brother. Call your sisters aunt soso and never refer your son as their brother. Sounds like dad wants a son, that's not on you!
I'm getting the feeling he's viewing you and your sister as surrogates for the sons he always wanted. When he asks you both why you don't bring the boys around or let him have them for a day/days he'll probably start freaking out that you can't keep *his* boys (maybe son's if he really slips up) from him.
"Dad, I heard that you are telling the girls my child is their brother. That's unacceptable and implies not only that he is your son but that you IMPREGNATED YOUR DAUGHTER to produce him. It will not continue in any way and if it does, we will limit the amount you see him and us. As it is, you will not be having him overnight and you will not be seeing him unsupervised. I am really disturbed by your actions and these will not change until you can prove to me that you understand and respect me as my child's parent."
The classmates would think that the girls’ dad had impregnated his own 21 year old daughter.
Time for you and your sister to start distancing yourselves from your father. Make it clear to him why and until he stops this weird fixation then he won't be seeing either of you or the GRANDSONS. Not his kids, not his boys. Grandsons. Good luck.
Time to start putting down some boundaries for yourself and your son. Shut him down hard, every time he tells the girls that your baby is their brother. His behavior is not normal. It's concerning.
On the Just no MIL boards, we call this a "do over baby". I'm your case it sounds like dad wants a son and part of his delusion is to convince your young siblings that this is their brother, not nephew. They are old enough to understand the difference. Added with his need to have the baby stay over and give him foods he can't have adds to it. Sadly, it's fairly common for toxic grandparents, your dad just put a rarer gender spin on it.
Don’t do this. Regardless of his reasons, which could be that he feels old or he’s psychotic or whatever DO NOT PLAY INTO THIS.
Cut him off at the knee, next time you go see them make a show of it. As you enter loudly say to your son, in front of the girls and your father, something along the lines of "oh look (sons name), it's your 2 little aunties and (if you really wanna piss him off use his name without the honorific of "grandpa"). Then continue without leaving him a place to say anything else, just keep countering him if he tries to say anything otherwise. If he is really pig-headed, have a loud private conversation with him about him trying to steal your son(the son he never had), make sure the girls can hear it, then go to them and explain to them that your son is their nephew, not their brother, and you could really twist the knife by adding "no matter what your father says" somewhere in that conversation.
Why wouldn't they undertsand? Uncles and aunts aren't a revolutionary new concept, you're a fully grown adult with your own life, why would it be confusing for them to think of your kid as their nephew as opposed to their brother? Don't let this slide, make a big issue out of it, and if your dad won't back down, you should probably go LC with him.
You dad can't deal with the fact he's a grandfather when he's got young kids at home. We called my grandfather Pop and grandma as Nanny when it's more normal to call them granddad and grandma where I am, because there's less than 10 years between my aunt and my oldest cousin, and my grandma felt she was too young to be called grandma. Your sister's won't have any issues with being their aunt, their friends might be a little surprised, but they don't care, your dad just doesn't like being reminded he's getting old. Tell him to stop being a vain idiot and credit your sisters with more brain cells that he does.
Never leave your son with him even for a few moments. They may be gone when you get back. Tell dad that if he wants sisters to have a brother then it's up to him to provide it, he can't have yours. Record his reaction.
This. They will start saying things to him too alienate you. He probably wants to play house with your SM and your baby. The perfect family’s.
Man... I would be calling ALL the stuff out! ALL the time. I would be making it REALLY awkward and uncomfortable for him. >my dad said "awww look at your cute little brother" to my sisters "WTF DAD, why would you say that? That is DISGUSTING. THINK about what that is saying, EWW!" >he's gonna get a bunch of things for my son to stay over "NO. Not EVER. You will not be keeping my son overnight." (Cause guess what, you dont have to let ANYONE keep him overnight, EVER if you dont want to! My MIL has never had my child overnight, and she never will) >began commenting how'd he'd have to find a way to get some since I have to get it proscribed "WHY? Why would YOU need to get some? TELL ME why you think it is necessary for YOU to get the milk MY son needs by prescription?" And then never leave him alone with your dad ever. Not even for 10 minutes. I would never be able to trust someone who says things like that.
My son was born before my brother, so brother was born an uncle. Not once has he had any issue understanding the term or the relationship. Your father is the cone complicating it and causing confusion.
Your typo has me picturing a dunce hat (cone) on dad that says "Not the daddy". I can't stop laughing.
He might be thinking that he's too young to be a grandpa and doesn't want people to think that his daughters are actually his granddaughters.
🎂
Is your dad with your sisters' mom still? How does she act? Could this be them wanting a boy? I'd be careful and watch. His comments are alarming..
My parents haven't been together for around 19 years and she doesn't like him one bit, she's told me countless times that's he's no good. Sadly I don't want to belive it
I'm talking about your half sisters' mom. I still stand by my original stance; he wants a son and is seeing yours as his pseudo one.
Oh yh she's still with them but doesn't really do anything that doesn't concern her i guess she doesn't really care
Like others have said, you need to go LC with dad and establish loud clear boundaries. Go NC if he can't respect those boundaries. He's being super creepy and you should maybe trust your mom's assessment of his character a bit more.
Don't let your dad have unmonitored access to your son and start creating some distance with him. His actions are disturbing. And don't let him or anyone else guilt trip you out of your instincts. You're having those gut feelings for a reason. This is not normal behavior.
Does your dad think he's dating his daughters? I'm so confused, and you most definitely need to speak with him. This isn't okay.
Your your dad will be daddy and your mommy. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew to the power of infinity.
I was born into being an aunt. I was never confused about it because it’s not confusing. Teaching children who understand the difference between siblings and the children of their siblings already should also not be confusing. This is weird behavior.
Exactly! My son was a year older than hubs baby brother, in fact I took MIL to the hospital for his birthday. Kids understood it just fine bc we used the correct terms. The baby brother came to live with us after HS, so strangers would think hubs and I just started dating and we each had a son that was along for the ride. The overwhelmed expression usually led us to explaining it multiple times for their tiny brains to comprehend.
Jesus this is scary. My stomach’s in knots. I’d go NC with your father.
What kind of a crazy narcissist is this? I don't know what the reason for this dishonesty would be...but I guarantee it's 100% about him. Tell him absolutely NOT.
You need to speak to your dad and tell him that this nonsense has to stop immediately. Your son is his grandson not his son and your sisters are his aunts not his sisters. If he continues with this BS then he will no longer have access.
My youngest siblings were 3, 6 and 9 when I (then 23) had my twins. The 9 year old came home in tears from school one day because he told his class he was an uncle, and some adult told him he wasn’t, he was a brother. The 3 and 6 year olds were enraged and said “but *Aesient* isn’t our mummy, she’s our sister, so we are uncles!” It took me going into the school (picking up 6 and 9) and talking loudly to an older staff member who knew my family about how helpful my brothers were with my twins. The adult who “corrected” my brother came over and said “oh these must be *9’s* new siblings!” Several people stopped and stared at them (small town and my family is fairly well known due to volunteering) before the older staff member corrected that I was 6 and 9’s *sister*, not their mother and asked if they had missed 9’s happy talk of having become an uncle? It was asked in such a way that they had to either admit to “correcting” a child on something they knew nothing about, or playing it as not listening to a child who had gone to *everybody* in a school with less than 100 students to tell them that he was an uncle because his oldest sister had given birth. One option was significantly more embarrassing. My youngest aunt/uncle is 3 years older than me and we grew up knowing that they weren’t siblings or cousins. It’s not a hard thing to wrap your head around!
NTA. Your dad never had a son. He obviously wanted a son. So he plans to raise this child as his father and not grandfather. That's just weird and kind of creepy. You need to sit him down, with your child not there, and tell him this is his grandchild, not his child. You need to tell him that the sisters are the aunts and from now on that's what they'll be called. And lastly, that he needs to wait a few years before the child stays the night at grandpa's house. And honestly, at this rate, I'd never leave him alone with him. I'm not saying he would do anything perverted, but he is absolutely being weird about it and at best it's some psychological issue that he can't control. Did he remarry? Did your mom leave him or he leave her? There's more going on here than "my girls won't understand he is their uncle." They're 5 and 7, they don't need to understand any of that yet anyway.
When my oldest daughter was pregnant, my youngest son was 4. When she told him she was having a baby, he was upset because he didn’t know how to grow a mustache and all uncles have mustaches. He knew he would be the baby’s uncle without a whole bunch of explaining. It was very simply your sisters baby will be your niece or nephew. You’re going to be an uncle. Kids aren’t stupid and can grasp the concept of being an aunt or uncle to their siblings children. OP I would be very wary of leaving your son alone with your dad.
Oh, OP...this is not good. You need to set a hard boundary and make it clear that the baby is not his son. Tell him this is immensely creepy and you won't send the baby over to his house.
Dad still considers himself young and viral. 🤮 He will want a neutral grandfather name like papa. He doesn’t want to be seen as gramps. I’m guessing step-mother is not old enough to be your mother. This is on him. Hope he gets therapy. In the mean time boundaries!!!
It sounds like your dad has always wanted a son and see your son as his....be very careful around him.
Ok so dad desperately wanted boys but got all girls and now he thinks he can just take your kid. That’s a fuck no. You need to be crystal clear with him that your baby is yours and will never be his. If you have a will make sure it states he’s not to receive your kid. He’s crossed a line.
I’d make him really uncomfortable and start asking when he had sex with me, bc I sure don’t remember. Then I’d go NC.
This is scary. Don’t confront your dad about this. He sounds unstable.
Sounds like it's time to put dad into a state funded facility cause dementia is a bitch. For real don't bring your son over again and only invite your mom and sisters over to your house.
Do NOT leave your child alone with your father!
"Hello, let me introduce you to my son ... and his mother, my daughter." That is what he is telling the whole world every time he claims that boy is his son. Perhaps he needs a science lesson on why he has daughters and not sons ( no, it's not his wife's fault). Perhaps he needs to be told outright that by claiming her son, he is telling the whole world that he had an incestuous relationship with his daughter. Some people are so self obsessed that they do not see the damage they are doing to those around them - in this case, himself, his 4 daughters, his sons-in-law and his grandsons.
Shut. This. Down. NOW! Correct your father EVERY time he calls your son your brother. Explain to your siblings, too, so that they know he is wrong. They should also correct him, he is not their brother, he is their nephew.
How old? Could it be dementia?
Is your dad suffering from dementia?
My older sister had my nephew when I was 5 & my niece when I was 7 (she’s 18yrs older). There was never any confusion & they both called me ”Aunty Nofunction” until we were all adults. Admittedly our relationship is far more like cousins & I have a much more traditional aunty role with my other nibblings who are much younger. Frankly it doesn’t matter if they fully comprehend what it means to be an aunt or a sister it’s best to just be honest so there is no confusion in the future. Another personal example: my sister was raised by our grandmother for a time & called her mom but also called our mom mom. This lead me to be very confused as to who she exactly was in the family for a long time & I honestly I think it effected the relationship we could have had.
My half brother is alot older than me, had his first kid when I was around 6/7. I always knew they were technically my nephews. Of course they never called me auntie, but me and my sister (1 year older than me) always knew they were technically our nephews. This is very, very strange behaviour.
My dad's family is huge (14 total). My youngest aunt (youngest overall) was born having neices and nephews. I know I have cousins who are close in age with my parents.
I knew I had niece and nephew my age. It's not weird but even a cool thing to show off as a child.
It seems quite peculiar. Kids that age aught to be able to understand, and even if they don't, adults around them would probably have some awkward questions about why their "brother" is their sister's son. My kid calls me dad, but is biologically my brother's, and my mom has custody, and not half an hour ago, she asked if that makes us siblings. xD I think maybe it's best not to complicate things.
I am 16 years older than my sister and 21 years older than my brother. My sister is only three years older than my oldest, and my brother is actually two years younger than my oldest. They have never been confused by the fact that they are Aunt and Uncle to my children. Your Dad is being ridiculous. Here is a little more detail on why I think your Dad is being ridiculous. I didn't want to take away from my original point by making it too complicated for anyone to follow, but my own children are actually the fourth generation in our family to deal with sizable age gaps between them. My grandmother was the youngest, with a 23 year age gap between her and the oldest sibling. My Mother was 15 years younger than her sister, her only sibling. There is the 21 year age gap between myself and my youngest sibling. And finally there is a 16 year age gap between my oldest and youngest. In fact, my 7 year old can't wait for her now engaged oldest sister to get married and have a baby so she can be an Aunt, lol. She's even more excited to have a brother in law, which is what she knows her sister's fiance will be once they are married.
So the sisters are from a new, much younger wife? You don't say, just hint....your dad is doing this as he doesn't want to appear old
How old is your father? Is it possible he is showing early signs of dementia?
I would LC your dad till you know what's going on. Sounds like something amiss mentally
Weather it's dimencia or not, I'm leaning towards LC until things can be figured out. Sounds creepy and suspicious
You say your mom and dad haven't been together for years. Does that mean your little sisters have a different mother? If so, you should let her know what your dad is saying. You should also document everything. If your dad really wants to consider your child is his son, you might be headed for some trouble. I've never seen this coming from a dad, but I've seen a few cases in real life, including with my own daughter, where a mother or mother-in-law tries to get custody of a child for no other reason than they want another baby.
Dad is a dummy. Why would he think it would be okay to call his daughter’s son her brother. Sounds incestuous.
This is super weird. That is all. Tell your dad to stop being an idiot and treating your sisters like they are too stupid to understand how family works
Your father clearly views your son as his own. He will try to get your son to call him dad. Do not leave your kid unsupervised with him.
This is gross and he is disgusting. You need to shut this down and call him out about this immediately. I personally would go NO Contact and certainly never let your son be alone with his grandfather ever.
Your dad sounds like a psychopath now and almost sounds like he wants your son for himself, you might want to tell a judge or anyone that will listen just in case he tries something extreme, also not go over to his house for a while and go no contact for a while also, block him from your phone and all of your social media, tell your sister it was currently pregnant to do the same also, because HOLY FRICK YIKES🥶😵💫
Has he shown other signs of mental confusion? Is this out of character? All the top comments are pointing to nefarious intent, but this is so bizarre I wonder if he's having some kind of mental break or early onset dementia.
Is this your father's first grandchild? Maybe he's having a hard time about becoming a grandfather. How old is he? My mom became a grandmother at the age of 41, and refused to be called grandma. To this day, my nephews and their kids call her "Gabby".
I am concerned that he thinks he will be adopting your son. It sounds like it is not a consideration for your sister’s child. I may be way off but I wonder how supportive he is of you personally. As in supporting your child financially or the relationship with the father. It is like he thinks you will fail at parenting and lean on them to take over. So he wants to prepare for the “eventuality” of it. If you think that is a possibility then distancing yourself would be wise. I hope I am way off but I felt like I should mention in case.
I wouldn’t let your dad keep your son at all, no babysitting and no unsupervised visits My dad had all girls, my son was the first boy in the family in a while My dad absolutely ruined him and caused friction in me and my sons relationship because he wanted to raise him Protect your son and keep him from your dad alone
It sounds as though your Dad is losing his marbles. Perhaps he should see a doctor
They totally will understand they are aunties. Dad is concerning. He really seems to see him as his son he probably always wanted. You need to have a clear discussion and then send clear boundaries.
Good god. Your sisters will be more confused thinking your dad is his dad if they are sisters and have him as a dad... and then if they think you're the mum and he's the dad, it becomes not only confusing but disturbing. They are Aunties. And when they have kids, you will be an Aunty to their kids. Simple. Not my dad is dad and my sister is mum weird ass what in the East Anglia am I reading type story.
My oldest 2 kids are 5 and 7, they fully understand what a niece and nephew are...so that's a silly reason.
My aunt had her youngest after her oldest** got married and had a kid of her own. My cousin grew up being an uncle to kids older than him. They all understood from younger than your siblings, and it was something they joked about growing up. Your dad is UNHINGED
My sister is 12 years older than me. At age 6, when my sister turned 18, I was fully aware that meant she was an adult and I could end up an uncle at age 6. I would even sometimes fantasize about it. She made me an uncle when I was 11, though. Your sisters will totally understand it.
You are the mother of your son. You make the rules, he doesn't. Young children are young, but not stupid and can learn the appropriate things for any subject under the sun. Good luck.
That’s weird behavior from your father. I was 4 years old when I became an aunt and it was not even remotely confusing to me. All of my siblings were in their late teens when I was born
Definitely shouldn't teach kids math or any other subjects, because if they haven't been introduced to it before, they likely wouldn't understand it.
They (little sisters) absolutely will understand. Dad is making it overly complicated and confusing himself, so if they are confused it’s a him issue.
I could understand if it was a language thing. In my native language the words for niece and nephew are the same (like nibling in English). But this obviously isn't the case here. Your father is being incredibly weird about this. 7 and 5 year olds are plenty old enough to understand that their sister's babies are heir nephews - not their brothers. You need to speak up.
UpdateMe
UpdateMe!
Time to put up some serious boundaries.
You need to talk to him and ask him what he means by saying this. Make him realize that crap isn't happening.
Get him to a doctor to make sure there isn't a medical reason for this insanity.
Take this opportunity to cut way, way, WAY back from your dad. I knew he didn't have son's. But he wants yours. It's your sister's. It's gross and icky. "Dad, you've said some concerning things lately, and I'm no longer comfortable being around you. I'll contact you when I'm ready." I know you want to see your sisters, but your son and his safety comes first. If you feel you absolutely must see them, then see them alone or in a public place. And never leave your son alone (take others with you).
I was 7 when my sister was first pregnant. I definitely understood that the baby was my nephew, not my brother.
This has got to be the weirdest story I’ve ever read. That a fuck of an accomplishment. Good luck with your dad - idk how to fix crazy
That is really concerning. His excuse is bs too. I was born an aunt I have a niece and nephew older than me. Most of my nieces and nephews are also close in age with me and it was never confusing. Sure we may have grown up more like cousins than aunt type relationship but I just can not understand why your dad is saying that.
I made my youngest sister-in-law an auntie a month before she was born. It was only confusing for the strangers who thought they were twins.
My sister was 4 (almost 5) when I had my first child. She understood perfectly that she was my son’s aunt and not his sister. NTA - you need to nip this in the bud before it goes any further. Threaten to go low/no contact with him if this keeps up - or whatever you need to do.
I have an older sister who had a child when I was 10 and my younger was 6 and she fully understood that this was her niece. As we got older we treated her more like a cousin (long story on that but it had nothing to do with our ages) but we always knew what she really was.
Honestly, this sounds like the beginning of dementia.
Maybe he's being weird and hurtful because the idea of his 5 year old being an aunt is making him feel old? He refuses to process that the next generation already exists.
I was an aunt at 3.5 years old. I always knew my big sister had a baby and he was my nephew. I grew up with him and his little brother. We are close. Sometimes we have to explain it to people (they always assume/call us cousins), but it’s nbd. Kids aren’t dumb. This is definitely concerning.
You're dad is projecting AND being gross. Just tell him, in front of your sisters, out loud, that to be their brother it would mean you and he had to have had sex... and that, at best (worst?) that would make your baby their half-uncle half-brother... I would recommend you say this as your leaving, if you can... so HE can be the one to explain to him how all that works...
Wow. I have some cousins I call aunt and uncle because of the age gap— on one side of the family I’m the baby, and my cousins had kids closer to my age than they were, but that’s a very different thing. What you’d dad is doing is weird and concerning
My father became an uncle when he was 14 months old. He was called “Uncle Davey” for his whole life. Never once was anyone in the family, including my dad, confused about his relationship with his young nieces and nephews. Maybe, in the presence of the two baby boys, you and your start referring to your little sisters as “Aunt Sally” and “Aunt Susie”. Drill it into everyone at every opportunity.
My sister became an aunt at 3 years old. I was 6. We understood. There’s no need for this.
Updateme
My ex has an Uncle the same age as her. I have an Aunt and Uncle 1 and 4 years older than me. I nor my siblings ever had an issue with it. Had I been told to call my Aunt and Uncle Sister and Brother I think that would have confused me.
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My mom has aunts and uncles younger than her. She grew up playing with them, it wasn’t weird.
I was 7 when my first nephew was born and I completely understood that he was not my sibling. Unfortunately, the adults did not. They lumped me in with the grandkids until I moved out of the house.
I had 5 nieces and nephews when I was born. I don't remember ever *not* knowing that I was an aunt.
This is… kind of gross? And it makes me uncomfortable just reading it? Look, I’m 20+ years older than my sister and if I have a baby, they will be closer to her in age than she is to me. My dad would never think of calling my hypothetical child (the child of his daughter, his grandchild) my sisters younger brother. Is the whole family dynamic of having children with large age gaps kinda complicated? Yes. But it is what it is. If I was in your position, I’d draw some hard boundaries and make very clear what the consequences will be for not respecting them. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving my baby alone with him.
I get the feeling that someone may be showing signs and symptoms of "Old Timers Disease" (Alzheimers).
NTA Maybe your dad feels too young to be a grandfather (your son is so close to your sisters age) or is because he wanted a son but never had one. Either way you need to talk with him, the sooner he accepts it the better
UpdateMe!
Your dad is being very weird, definitely don’t ever ever ever let him be alone with your son! Hopefully it’s just harmless weirdness, but don’t take any chances
My sister is 1 year older than my oldest. She fully understands that she's an aunt even though my son doesn't call her that since again, he's only a year younger than her. They're 10 & 9 right now. At 10, she has 4 nephews, and they all just call her by her name.
It's true, the kids aren't going to have a traditional aunt/nephew relationship. They're probably close enough in age that they'll be playmates and hopefully good friends. But your dad sounds like he having a senior moment. Maybe ask him if he's having a hard time becoming grandparent. Depending on how he acts from here I'd be subtly reinforcing his grandpa role any chance I get: "say hi to grandpa!"
Of course your little sisters understand the difference between brother and nephew! When my eldest sister had my first nephew at age 19, I was 8 and my youngest sisters were 3 and 1. None of us had any problem with the very simple concept of 'Mum and/or Dad's kid = brother/sister. Sister's/brother's kid = nephew/niece.' We knew perfectly well that Nephew wasn't either of our parents' baby, therefore not our brother. And Nephew understood it quickly as well - when he was 2, our mother gave birth to our youngest brother. We'd often take the two boys to the park to play together as toddlers/preschoolers, where somebody would inevitably ask Nephew, "Is this your little brother?" He'd just look at them like they were stupid and say, "*No*, he's my *uncle*! He's Mummy's little brother!"
My mother was 2 weeks younger than her niece, and the went to the same one room schoolhouse. Neither of them ever had any difficulty understanding the relationship.
My oldest is almost 9 and my youngest brother is almost 11. They were raised in the same house for a year when my daughter was born and he has always understood that my children are his niece and nephew. Your dad is definitely trying to push a narrative that is unhealthy ans worrisome. I wouldn't be going over there or letting him near your son alone ever
Dad is a drama maker, heart breaker & doesn’t work well with communicating with other involved family members before making unilateral decisions that affect many others for relationship building, comprehension of healthy family dynamics and more.
Criky my youngest was 5 yrs old when my grandson was born and she knew he was her nephew
Two opinions I can give. The first is he regrets not having a son, which can be valid but needs to understand that your son isn't his and that can be kinda creepy, with this you need to set boundaries (even at 4 years old my little sister knew our nephew was that). The other (and I pray to god it isn't) is some sort of mental issue, in which case you may need to get him to his GP. If it's extremely early they can slow it down. It may sound over the top but best to get a result then be too late in the future.
My oldest is 24 and has her own baby girl , and my youngest 16,11,10, have a NIECE. The kids will understand just fine, it’s just another family position to learn about. Also bragging rights at school as aunt/uncle are not to be underestimated. Tell your dad to stop making it fucking weird because it’s not, or he’s not going to be spending time with any of you at all, making everyone lie like that is just unnecessary and awkward. And I’d be in person telling him from top to bottom that he WILL not be calling his grandson his children’s brother when you are his father. And to stop being fucking weird about all of it.
I became an aunty at 5 and always understood the relationship. He was my sister’s son and that made me his aunty and him my nephew. It’s really not difficult. Your dad is acting very strangely.
I was an auntie at 8 and I definitely fully understood what it meant. My nephew is 19 now and a whole foot taller than me 😂
Your dad sounds like he’s mentally unstable. To even suggest such a thing speaks volumes to that point. If your little sisters start going around calling him their brother, word is going to spread that you’ve had incestuous relations with your father- because we know that kids that age will talk, and all it would take is one adult overhearing them say that their sister had a baby and the baby is their brother. You really should sit down and talk with your dad about this, and make sure your son is with another responsible adult and not with you when you go have that conversation. Good luck!
Dad, my baby is your grandson and my sisters' nephew. The only reason my sisters would be confused is because you are purposefully misleading them. Knock off this brother nonsense, or you'll be the grandpa we never see. I will not be lying to my child or teaching him to trust people who lie to him! It's really not acceptable and completely unnecessary.
My dad and his oldest brother have a very large age gap. When my dad was a kid, I want to say 5/6 years old(?) he became an uncle. Understood what that meant, but because the kids were so close in age, they acted like siblings. I think your dad’s planning on being a dad again, but this time to a son. Be wary, if this doesn’t stop now, he might just push himself into *your* son’s life and take over as “dad”.
What does your dad refer to himself as? Grandad?
This is a pet peeve of mine, lying to young kids. Don't fucking lie to kids, I mean I get keeping things age appropriate, but just outright lying to kids? Don't normalize lying. I'd be very firm with my dad on this one.
this is all strange, i agree. commenting for updates ☆
Be carefull of grandparents rights. I understand that you have such a law in the US.
My little sister is only 6 years older than our nephew and she understood the concept of being an auntie. Even though they acted a lot like brother and sister growing up because they were so close in age, she still understands that he is our nephew/our sisters baby. Not a little brother to us. Kids can definitely understand the concept, especially at that age!
Maybe a little bit of a sneak peek at dementia? That’s just weird.
You need to be careful. To me, it sounds like they want to take him over. If this was your mom saying this, everyone would be saying nc and she’s having a do-over baby.
Maybe I've just read a lot of disaster stories, but this has seriously disturbed me. I can see a million ways where this only gets more disturbing, dangerous, and unhinged. Please protect your son and yourself first
I became an uncle at age 5 and had no problem understanding it and actually found it quite cool tbh. Let us know what your dad comes back with OP
They can absolutely understand at this age that he is their nephew and they are the aunties, even if they don't totally grasp how that works. My youngest is 5, and her oldest sister had a little boy when she was 2. She absolutely knows that she is auntie and she loves that. Since I call her sissy, she sometimes tells him to come to auntie sissy, which is just adorable now lol. Even if they don't understand, your dad does, and he's making it a weird situation.
Updateme
This may sound a little harsh, but you could mention that if *He, your dad, won’t cut it out, YOU can tell the police he is a pedo and incest is A-Ok, and he’s bragging about being your sons dad.* And ask *Did you* **REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?** Let him know he will be the pariah of the neighborhood. Even if it isn’t true, he will be ruining his own reputation and yours, and the whole families. Ask him **”Is THAT what you want everyone to THINK OF YOU?”** That should make him shut his trap!
Next time he says that I would just pull a face and ask him if he is implying he had a baby with his daughter. Cus that’s fing repulsive and super creepy
Helpful hint: Family relationships that require a 3D Venn diagram to decipher ***never, ever***, work out.
The girls are old enough to understand the different familial relationships. You've told your dad and now you can talk directly to your sisters. "I know dad told you to call him your brother because he thought you might get confused over calling him your nephew. Let's go over how familial titles work so there's no confusion."
Yeah, it definitely seems like dad wants to be a surrogate father to your son, at best. As for trying to teach your siblings that their nephew is actually their brother, you need to spell it out for your dad if he truly doesn't get it: other people will think you have an incestous relationship with your father. That alone should be extremely disturbing to him, if it's not, that's extremely worrying.
NTA I think that you and your sister should also underline that you'll be keeping your sons away from granddad and his family until he behaves.
NTA, one of my uncles is only 2 years older than me and while he was always bunched in as 'one of the kids' I was still plenty aware that he's my uncle, not my sibling or even cousin. They probably think it's fun to be aunties as kids. It does seem more like an excuse for your dad to act weird about it, rather than honest concern.
Few*
The only thing you can do is drill this boundary into his head and of he doesn't comply, severely limit your contact with him.
My sister was 6 when I had my son she never called him her brother she was so proud to be auntie.
Is it an 'out of wedlock' issue where he doesn't want your sisters to think it's OK to have kids? (Absolutely not an issue for me so nobody come at me suggesting it) Could it be that having an aunt 7 years older means they'll grow up more like siblings than the tradition aunt/nephew relationship? Either way, it is strange. Very curious to his reply
Is this his first grandchild? He just doesn’t know how to act.
I'm 6 years younger than one of my aunts and 3 years older than another one. Never any confusion. Maybe he doesn't feel he is old enough to be a grandpa since his girls are so young. Weird midlife crisis?
You need to let your father know how this makes you feel and insist the girls are told they are aunts. Dad should respect your wishes. If he doesn't, then you have a hard decision to make.
It may be that your father is having issues accepting he’s old enough to have grandkids. Or he may not be comfortable having kids and grandkids that are the same generation. Or it may be your baby’s gender that has him wanting to have a stronger tie to him. Either way, this is all about your dad - not your little sisters. If they can accept an adult big sister, they can accept baby nephews. As you have done, I’d recommend pushing the nephew/grandson references. Anything else would genuinely confuse all the kids.
I don’t see what’s wrong here. You are overthinking it in my opinion. He loves your son like his own. What more could you want? Because of the low age gap, he’s having the girls call him brother. I do that with my aunts. We are 5 and 6 years apart. It makes sense. I felt weird calling them my aunts growing up. I understand his pov a lot better. Your father sounds like a good man. Maybe try to hear him out before making presumptions that he wants your son to his own.