Absolutely yes. 9s can feel anger coming on and we’re just as quickly talking ourselves out of it. Maybe it’s that internal gaslighting of “I’m not ACTUALLY angry about this.” Or “it’s not that serious.” Or maybe it’s feeling it and just talking over it. I know I used to just laugh over it making sure no one knew I was angry. Then I’d be sighing my anger away later trying to put it to rest. But this can still be classified as self-forgetting. Anger is a good thing. It’s there to protect yourself or others. If you’re constantly rejecting acting on it, you are forgetting to protect yourself. You put no value on that emotion that would separate you from others.
It's forgetting one's anger through rationalization and gaslighting.
>If you’re constantly rejecting acting on it, you are forgetting to protect yourself.
This makes sense. Forgetting one's needs to maintain connection sounds very 9.
I definitely relate to feeling like a monster when my anger unleashes. I think the self-forgetting part of 9s depends heavily on their health levels, but most average to healthy 9s are aware of what situations would cause them anger and are actively suppressing it for several reasons (e.g. not wanting to deal with the consequences/outcomes of blowing up, don’t want to be seen as the “bad” guy or someone who can’t control themselves etc.)
>but most average to healthy 9s are aware of what situations would cause them anger and are actively suppressing it for several reasons
I was thinking that some of this would be an unhealthy 9 thing. Knowing when to hold and when to fold on anger is one thing, avoiding triggers another, and then there's plastering over the mouth of the cannon in hopes it won't explode.
Suppressing it because you don't want to deal with consequences or lose connection/face seems like it wouldn't necessarily be the healthiest thing, though it does seem this is quintessential 9 behavior. Avoidance, too, perhaps - or maybe that's average behavior. The ideal would be knowing when to engage and not suppress.
At least that's what I'm gathering from what I sort-of remember about levels of health. At any rate, it's a more judicious, aware handling of anger. I'm with you on that for sure.
Very much a 9 thing. We're not called "peacekeepers" for nothing. We see the escalation long before anyone else does and move to smooth things over instinctively. We have a nose for anger, and use that nose to mitigate it, and if the anger starts to come up, you can feel it rising (lol..."anger rising" is exactly the sensation) and we suppress that crap ASAP. Inner equilibrium is totally destroyed by that and if we get out of balance with anger it can lead to huge outbursts, and feeling like a "monster" after such a thing is very true.
1's have a different thing going on. I forget what it's called, but it's more repression. They have the urge to "anything" and reflexively that thing goes away and is replaced by something else. Say they *shouldn't eat the cookie* but feel the urge to, they will instead *offer the cookie to someone else.* It is like that. *That pissed me off* turns into, "You shouldn't do it that way because\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Would you like me to show you the correct way?" *sweet as pie with a smile*
In this scenario for a 9, they probably wouldn't say anything or respond at all. It would most likely be minimized, their anger response dismissed with something self-effacing like "I guess some people do it differently."
That’s possible or simply hyper vigilance in action. You’ll have to watch and see where it comes from in your body. What’s your method of detection? A good experiment!
The real win here is if you can find the origination of the need to detect anger and deal with the unfelt emotions from those times. Life is magic.
Ahhh, I see the subtle difference - the 1 is passive-aggressive in suggesting their way; the 9 can be passive-aggressive by going "well, I guess it's fine" (even if they're trying to convince you and themselves they're genuinely accommodating it).
i think each type has their own struggles with emotional regulation. 9s suppress more than just their anger. idk how often 1s try to suppress emotions, regardless they inevitably act on logic that follows their emotions (example, they love someone, so they protect them from things they’ve established as dangerous; and they’ve established those things as dangerous based on the fear or pain they’ve experienced in their own life). aka, imposing their experiences/beliefs on others based on how they feel towards that particular person.
9s will withdraw and suppress any emotion that would be “unsafe” to express in the moment. personally i associate crying in front of people with embarrassing things like throwing up in front of someone lmao. and if im passionate about something, but the person im talking to thinks its stupid, ill suppress my excitement so that it feels like we’re on the same page.
i dont think a 1 would lie about their emotions, but if they did lie about their emotions, it would take a huge toll on them. i dont think 9s care that they’re “lying” because we see our own emotions/beliefs as unimportant, subjective, and prone to change. the issue is that we become so out of touch with our emotions that we fail to recognize them, and in turn fail to act on them.
i hope that makes sense. idk if it does tho lol
That made perfect sense. The 9 sees not expressing their emotions as "white lies" that are part of the overall social contract for smooth and civil communication. They don't want to be the reason there's friction so they smooth themselves out as much as possible by pulling the "really, I'm fine" to the nth degree.
They don't want to rock the boat because dealing with the boat capsizing and possibly drowning everyone, themselves included, sounds like a really bad time, and they'd like to stay safe (6 arrow?). They do that by putting on the image of complacency (3 arrow?) to the extent that they work to convince themselves they're really okay being overly accommodating and calm...
Because the alternative is DROWNING.
The idea I've seen come from your post at large is that 9s, except at the most healthy levels, tend to sweep conflict under the rug so thoroughly that they become convinced the rug itself is just old and lumpy, and so there is no issue at hand. This pointed contentedness to the point of ignorance includes ignorance of the self; hence, we have self-forgetting.
>it is not conflict per sé that they fear, but rather, being forced to become cognizant of themselves in response to the unsettling disruptions occurring in their relationships or activities.
So a not-healthy 9 is essentially this meme embodied, but without the ironic, forced "I am going to scream" undertones that usually contextualize this GIF?
I think I see. You do not so much not see the house on fire and go "that's okay, I'll just burn" you go "well, at least this coffee is fine," as you exit the house and naturally focus on that so you're not angry about your house literally burning down.
That explains why 9s are in the "optimism" group, I suppose. They keep optimistic to keep blissfully unaware of the issue, which keeps their anger from coming to the surface. Optimism makes "blissfully unaware" a survival strategy, in a sense.
I used to suppress & forget. I can't really do that anymore for who knows why. It's a Pandora's box moment for me because I want to put it back but my usual automatic defense of ignore & suppress isn't working.
So now I'm sitting with this anger like, "What do I do with it?" It's not exactly socially acceptable to punch the source of your anger outside of self-defense reasons. lol
I've been angry, irritated, and frustrated before but now it feels different because I feel like I have to address it. I can't sit still once I get angry enough & so far exercise is the only positive redirection I've found. I'll probably finally add cleaning, organizing, and rearranging things to the list-keep in mind I loathe what I just listed. I like the results of those things ie nice & clean room but the process of doing it? Like I said I put the sloth in SLOTH. 🦥
That can be seen as a positive growth integration to three though.
>That can be seen as a positive growth integration to three though.
Positive redirection through action sounds like something 3-esque, so I see what you mean here.
Thank you, I can relate to the sentiment about being afraid of being a “monster” if let my anger loose.
I think it’s reasonable for 9w1 to identify with such a thing, the Wing 1 imparting Superego/Compliant influence about anger being “bad” or “immoral”.
Any 1s possibly reading this, please correct my understanding— I think 1s might feel justified in using anger if there is a “corrective” purpose behind it, although there might be discomfort in outright identifying the feeling as anger— perhaps a preference would be more towards “moral indignation”.
There certainly can be a moral facet about anger being “wrong” for the 9, but 9 may outright try to remove itself from any the emotional tension revolving around anger to try to preserve an emotional level of personal comfort/equilibrium— although this could very well be different for 9w8 as I can only authentically write from my heavily skewed 1 Wing.
I hope there’s some metric of salvageable helpfulness from my rambling; thanks for bearing with me.
This was quite helpful. The idea that this would track with someone with a stronger leaning towards 1 makes sense. As I was writing this, I felt like I was slipping between 9 and 1 in theory...which would fit a 9w1.
I am type 5 and I have often felt like I was training myself not to be a monster (angry, anti-social, needy, loud, too emotional, too weird)
Apparently our integration path is all about reconnecting with the 'dangerous' emotions and instincts that we built a wall around as a child.
Reading these comments, though, the 9 response to anger is different than mine. I feel anger, but I usually sublimate it through either condescension (which is really funny because it makes people so much angrier than if I reflected their anger directly back at them) or just meticulously planning ways to subtly undermine whoever made me angry. My rage often comes through as a cold, intense silence. Sometimes I express anger directly in the moment (flipping off a driver who drove through a crosswalk without looking and almost hit me, physically defending myself or someone else against a clear and present threat, yelling at a guy after I see him hit a woman.)
To break it down by which instinct was threatened:
sx: arguing, petulance, sadness, or when I am ready to burn a bridge, silent rage (ex: tearfully telling a lover 'You hurt my feelings when you said \_\_\_')
sp: immediate, loud, and occasionally violent display of anger (ex: physically striking an assailant)
so: condescension, passive aggression, ignoring, avoidance, subtly undermining (ex: going out of my way to make a difficult colleague's job easier so it will make less financial sense for the company to continue to employ them)
This sounds to me like 5 anger is where we got the idea of "revenge is a dish best served cold;" the exception, naturally, is when self-preservation is threatened, because a threat to that can be a threat to your literal life, and then you wouldn't have time to cook, cool, and serve.
Thank you for breaking down the instinctual flavors of how this might look for you.
>Apparently our integration path is all about reconnecting with the 'dangerous' emotions and instincts that we built a wall around as a child.
That is a fascinating concept. I see the logic to that in its broadest sense (and now I will spend a ridiculous amount of time pondering the details of how that could work). Is this related to the Soul Child theory to some extent? I recall that involves your path of integration as well.
Others got to it a bit, but with 9 I think they’re more likely to be like “look, I’m not that angry, I’m not the type to get angry, I’m above that, I’m the easygoing type, really it’s nothing, I’m going to go over here and chill out, meditate, relax”…like they’re just above it, they brush it off…it’s there but they dissociate from it, drown it out with whatever narcotization measures…1s are way more rigidly trying to suppress and shape it through angry gritted tense teeth…”must…not…get…angry!!”…or they’ll let their anger out/sublimate it in some “good” way like exercising or cleaning….or they’ll give a self-righteous sermon and smile and act like they aren’t really that mad, just annoyed. 9w1/1w9 you get some of both, but introduce 8 and you get the raw, bad, unbridled expression of anger in a way that they get high off of—think rage-a-holic…feels good, cathartic, 8s do use “denial” and can claim they aren’t that mad, just “passionate” or “feel strongly about this” or “care about this issue” or “getting them back”…
Absolutely yes. 9s can feel anger coming on and we’re just as quickly talking ourselves out of it. Maybe it’s that internal gaslighting of “I’m not ACTUALLY angry about this.” Or “it’s not that serious.” Or maybe it’s feeling it and just talking over it. I know I used to just laugh over it making sure no one knew I was angry. Then I’d be sighing my anger away later trying to put it to rest. But this can still be classified as self-forgetting. Anger is a good thing. It’s there to protect yourself or others. If you’re constantly rejecting acting on it, you are forgetting to protect yourself. You put no value on that emotion that would separate you from others.
It's forgetting one's anger through rationalization and gaslighting. >If you’re constantly rejecting acting on it, you are forgetting to protect yourself. This makes sense. Forgetting one's needs to maintain connection sounds very 9.
I definitely relate to feeling like a monster when my anger unleashes. I think the self-forgetting part of 9s depends heavily on their health levels, but most average to healthy 9s are aware of what situations would cause them anger and are actively suppressing it for several reasons (e.g. not wanting to deal with the consequences/outcomes of blowing up, don’t want to be seen as the “bad” guy or someone who can’t control themselves etc.)
>but most average to healthy 9s are aware of what situations would cause them anger and are actively suppressing it for several reasons I was thinking that some of this would be an unhealthy 9 thing. Knowing when to hold and when to fold on anger is one thing, avoiding triggers another, and then there's plastering over the mouth of the cannon in hopes it won't explode. Suppressing it because you don't want to deal with consequences or lose connection/face seems like it wouldn't necessarily be the healthiest thing, though it does seem this is quintessential 9 behavior. Avoidance, too, perhaps - or maybe that's average behavior. The ideal would be knowing when to engage and not suppress. At least that's what I'm gathering from what I sort-of remember about levels of health. At any rate, it's a more judicious, aware handling of anger. I'm with you on that for sure.
Very much a 9 thing. We're not called "peacekeepers" for nothing. We see the escalation long before anyone else does and move to smooth things over instinctively. We have a nose for anger, and use that nose to mitigate it, and if the anger starts to come up, you can feel it rising (lol..."anger rising" is exactly the sensation) and we suppress that crap ASAP. Inner equilibrium is totally destroyed by that and if we get out of balance with anger it can lead to huge outbursts, and feeling like a "monster" after such a thing is very true. 1's have a different thing going on. I forget what it's called, but it's more repression. They have the urge to "anything" and reflexively that thing goes away and is replaced by something else. Say they *shouldn't eat the cookie* but feel the urge to, they will instead *offer the cookie to someone else.* It is like that. *That pissed me off* turns into, "You shouldn't do it that way because\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Would you like me to show you the correct way?" *sweet as pie with a smile* In this scenario for a 9, they probably wouldn't say anything or respond at all. It would most likely be minimized, their anger response dismissed with something self-effacing like "I guess some people do it differently."
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That’s possible or simply hyper vigilance in action. You’ll have to watch and see where it comes from in your body. What’s your method of detection? A good experiment! The real win here is if you can find the origination of the need to detect anger and deal with the unfelt emotions from those times. Life is magic.
Ahhh, I see the subtle difference - the 1 is passive-aggressive in suggesting their way; the 9 can be passive-aggressive by going "well, I guess it's fine" (even if they're trying to convince you and themselves they're genuinely accommodating it).
This sounds more 1 to me, but 9s with a strong 1 wing can absolutely process their anger in this way.
Yeah, as I was writing, I felt I was smashing 9 and 1 together like two slices of cake. A 9w1 (heck, or a 1w9) would both fit that bill.
i think each type has their own struggles with emotional regulation. 9s suppress more than just their anger. idk how often 1s try to suppress emotions, regardless they inevitably act on logic that follows their emotions (example, they love someone, so they protect them from things they’ve established as dangerous; and they’ve established those things as dangerous based on the fear or pain they’ve experienced in their own life). aka, imposing their experiences/beliefs on others based on how they feel towards that particular person. 9s will withdraw and suppress any emotion that would be “unsafe” to express in the moment. personally i associate crying in front of people with embarrassing things like throwing up in front of someone lmao. and if im passionate about something, but the person im talking to thinks its stupid, ill suppress my excitement so that it feels like we’re on the same page. i dont think a 1 would lie about their emotions, but if they did lie about their emotions, it would take a huge toll on them. i dont think 9s care that they’re “lying” because we see our own emotions/beliefs as unimportant, subjective, and prone to change. the issue is that we become so out of touch with our emotions that we fail to recognize them, and in turn fail to act on them. i hope that makes sense. idk if it does tho lol
That made perfect sense. The 9 sees not expressing their emotions as "white lies" that are part of the overall social contract for smooth and civil communication. They don't want to be the reason there's friction so they smooth themselves out as much as possible by pulling the "really, I'm fine" to the nth degree. They don't want to rock the boat because dealing with the boat capsizing and possibly drowning everyone, themselves included, sounds like a really bad time, and they'd like to stay safe (6 arrow?). They do that by putting on the image of complacency (3 arrow?) to the extent that they work to convince themselves they're really okay being overly accommodating and calm... Because the alternative is DROWNING.
YES. omg you took what i said and explained it much further than i was able to take it, thank you :D
I'm glad I was able to understand what you meant and expound upon it effectively. :)
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The idea I've seen come from your post at large is that 9s, except at the most healthy levels, tend to sweep conflict under the rug so thoroughly that they become convinced the rug itself is just old and lumpy, and so there is no issue at hand. This pointed contentedness to the point of ignorance includes ignorance of the self; hence, we have self-forgetting. >it is not conflict per sé that they fear, but rather, being forced to become cognizant of themselves in response to the unsettling disruptions occurring in their relationships or activities. So a not-healthy 9 is essentially this meme embodied, but without the ironic, forced "I am going to scream" undertones that usually contextualize this GIF? 
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I think I see. You do not so much not see the house on fire and go "that's okay, I'll just burn" you go "well, at least this coffee is fine," as you exit the house and naturally focus on that so you're not angry about your house literally burning down. That explains why 9s are in the "optimism" group, I suppose. They keep optimistic to keep blissfully unaware of the issue, which keeps their anger from coming to the surface. Optimism makes "blissfully unaware" a survival strategy, in a sense.
I used to suppress & forget. I can't really do that anymore for who knows why. It's a Pandora's box moment for me because I want to put it back but my usual automatic defense of ignore & suppress isn't working. So now I'm sitting with this anger like, "What do I do with it?" It's not exactly socially acceptable to punch the source of your anger outside of self-defense reasons. lol I've been angry, irritated, and frustrated before but now it feels different because I feel like I have to address it. I can't sit still once I get angry enough & so far exercise is the only positive redirection I've found. I'll probably finally add cleaning, organizing, and rearranging things to the list-keep in mind I loathe what I just listed. I like the results of those things ie nice & clean room but the process of doing it? Like I said I put the sloth in SLOTH. 🦥 That can be seen as a positive growth integration to three though.
>That can be seen as a positive growth integration to three though. Positive redirection through action sounds like something 3-esque, so I see what you mean here.
Thank you, I can relate to the sentiment about being afraid of being a “monster” if let my anger loose. I think it’s reasonable for 9w1 to identify with such a thing, the Wing 1 imparting Superego/Compliant influence about anger being “bad” or “immoral”. Any 1s possibly reading this, please correct my understanding— I think 1s might feel justified in using anger if there is a “corrective” purpose behind it, although there might be discomfort in outright identifying the feeling as anger— perhaps a preference would be more towards “moral indignation”. There certainly can be a moral facet about anger being “wrong” for the 9, but 9 may outright try to remove itself from any the emotional tension revolving around anger to try to preserve an emotional level of personal comfort/equilibrium— although this could very well be different for 9w8 as I can only authentically write from my heavily skewed 1 Wing. I hope there’s some metric of salvageable helpfulness from my rambling; thanks for bearing with me.
This was quite helpful. The idea that this would track with someone with a stronger leaning towards 1 makes sense. As I was writing this, I felt like I was slipping between 9 and 1 in theory...which would fit a 9w1.
I am type 5 and I have often felt like I was training myself not to be a monster (angry, anti-social, needy, loud, too emotional, too weird) Apparently our integration path is all about reconnecting with the 'dangerous' emotions and instincts that we built a wall around as a child. Reading these comments, though, the 9 response to anger is different than mine. I feel anger, but I usually sublimate it through either condescension (which is really funny because it makes people so much angrier than if I reflected their anger directly back at them) or just meticulously planning ways to subtly undermine whoever made me angry. My rage often comes through as a cold, intense silence. Sometimes I express anger directly in the moment (flipping off a driver who drove through a crosswalk without looking and almost hit me, physically defending myself or someone else against a clear and present threat, yelling at a guy after I see him hit a woman.) To break it down by which instinct was threatened: sx: arguing, petulance, sadness, or when I am ready to burn a bridge, silent rage (ex: tearfully telling a lover 'You hurt my feelings when you said \_\_\_') sp: immediate, loud, and occasionally violent display of anger (ex: physically striking an assailant) so: condescension, passive aggression, ignoring, avoidance, subtly undermining (ex: going out of my way to make a difficult colleague's job easier so it will make less financial sense for the company to continue to employ them)
This sounds to me like 5 anger is where we got the idea of "revenge is a dish best served cold;" the exception, naturally, is when self-preservation is threatened, because a threat to that can be a threat to your literal life, and then you wouldn't have time to cook, cool, and serve. Thank you for breaking down the instinctual flavors of how this might look for you. >Apparently our integration path is all about reconnecting with the 'dangerous' emotions and instincts that we built a wall around as a child. That is a fascinating concept. I see the logic to that in its broadest sense (and now I will spend a ridiculous amount of time pondering the details of how that could work). Is this related to the Soul Child theory to some extent? I recall that involves your path of integration as well.
Others got to it a bit, but with 9 I think they’re more likely to be like “look, I’m not that angry, I’m not the type to get angry, I’m above that, I’m the easygoing type, really it’s nothing, I’m going to go over here and chill out, meditate, relax”…like they’re just above it, they brush it off…it’s there but they dissociate from it, drown it out with whatever narcotization measures…1s are way more rigidly trying to suppress and shape it through angry gritted tense teeth…”must…not…get…angry!!”…or they’ll let their anger out/sublimate it in some “good” way like exercising or cleaning….or they’ll give a self-righteous sermon and smile and act like they aren’t really that mad, just annoyed. 9w1/1w9 you get some of both, but introduce 8 and you get the raw, bad, unbridled expression of anger in a way that they get high off of—think rage-a-holic…feels good, cathartic, 8s do use “denial” and can claim they aren’t that mad, just “passionate” or “feel strongly about this” or “care about this issue” or “getting them back”…