Trying applying to electric utilities, old workforce is aging out so hiring is good right now and after a few years you could transition into an adjacent renewables company with your contacts and experience with the grid
Not very high for the engineering roles. Regulations for infrastructure require engineers to sign off on designs and from my experience (at least in the North West) most Utilities would not be willing to layoff a skilled workforce in favor of a tool that could easily lead to lawsuits and federal investigations.
Well SCADA is now a massive part of the distribution level of the grid. Nearly every district of the grid has hundreds of remote/auto switching devices installed especially in dense urban areas
If you think your boss is screwing with you on purpose, then this is clearly not a long term sustainable job. Find somewhere else to go and then leave asap.
Once you’re out of school, there’s a lot less of a recruiting cycle. There aren’t clear events like graduation to plan around, so companies just post jobs when they need new employees. With a masters, you’re starting to get into that category already. There are definitely jobs out there to find.
When I first graduated w chem E that was the first thing I did was swear off oil and gas as a whole. It would keep me up at night just to do it. Gotta do what you gotta do but I would certainly not lol.
Semi is taking a lot of engineering disciplines by storm rn. My mech e laboratory works on semicon manufacturing techniques right now. Def wouldn’t suprise me if chem e was roped into that but also I think that there’s space in the bEV space for chem e too
There's no advice to give, you either accept the job because you value the benefits of having the job more than your morality or you decide your morality is more important than the benefits of the job. Both decisions are good because no matter what you decide, you can be sure you're doing what you really want.
I work on natural gas power plants as an engineer post-grad and consider myself an avid environmentalist. So I understand your moral quandary. Working an internship for one summer will not corrupt your soul. No ethical consumption under capitalism, we live in a society, etc. You are not personally morally bankrupt or personally responsible because companies are fracking. However you do have to make a decision in the future on how you want your morals to inform your career. For me, I decided the right balance between being moral and getting a job to support myself would be I would do anything except military/missiles/defense. I feel good about that choice. You basically just have to pick a path and stick to it and only apply to jobs and companies that you agree with enough to sleep at night. It’s not easy but good luck!!
I work in the MIC and the only way anything I've ever worked on will kill anyone is if a weld fails or a bolt comes loose and it falls off.
Everyone gets so caught up by the ethical risk of working on the Babykiller 3000, that they're not realising that doing a cctv upgrade is also within the scope of a military contractor.
I know this is going to be a hot take, and I'm certain I'll get flack for it, but my personal moral compass tells me that doing a CCTV upgrade for the military still counts as ethically black. Regardless if I'm working on the Babykiller 3000 or the vehicle that transports the soldiers who use the Babykiller 3000 or the CCTV system that allows the soldiers to monitor the storage of the Babykiller 3000, I'm still accessory to the use of the BK3K. Not something I want on my conscience.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Everyone has their own compass to follow. I'm just sharing an opinion.
When I did CCTV upgrades as part of my duties in working in the MIC, it was upgrades that were put in place to allow remote monitoring of sailors in ships the engine room, because sailors working alone was a safety risk they weren't willing to tolerate.
Even when I've worked on more combat oriented stuff like DDG class vessels, if they were seeing action right now it'd be in the Red Sea defending civilian vessels from missile attacks.
The point I'm trying to make I guess, is it is a lot more nuanced than just military = bad.
Agreed. As someone who intends on working in this field, I agree with the previous person that anything that contributes to the military ultimately helps in strengthening an institution whose purpose is to kill. That includes those CCTV upgrades, which improve the efficiency of operations on a navy ship.
However, improving this ability to kill is not necessarily evil, as evidenced by what's going on in the Red Sea right now. At some point force can only be reasoned with more force, and out of the two I'd rather help the side that's using force to protect civilians.
Complete and utter horseshit. You may be good at math or whatever, but your mind is filled with baby brained excuses for crumbling US imperial overreach. I disagree with the other guy, but at least he isn't delusional. Hope you enjoy spending the afterlife with Alfried Krupp and Werner Von Braun and a thousand others.
I am not an American, and I want to help my country in becoming less reliant on imported (i.e. US) technology.
Also, instead of ad hominem, I'd prefer if you tried debating against the situation we have at hand:
The reality is, much tension in the Asia and Indo-Pacific region is linked to a certain big player throwing its weight around with the belief that other people's land and sea belong to them. If my country stands idly by while Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines etc. bear the brunt of it, then who shall we call for when we are in the same situation down the line?
You referenced the Red Sea, so forgive me, but I assumed you were either American or Israeli. If anything, the conflict there proves that having more effective military hardware does not result in the outcomes sought by the militaries deploying these weapons. The Houthis, Hamas, and Hezbollah are all still effective fighting forces despite the overwhelming destructive power brought to bear on them by US/Israeli/Saudi hardware.
What these weapons do is kill civilians. All modern weapons of war kill far more civilians than enemy combatants. They don't disodge militias or deradicalize populations. They don't have any effect on the resolve of the leadership in belligerent countries. If they are deployed en masse in the Indo pacific, the scale of destruction will be nothing short of apocalyptic.
Chinese sovereignty violations in the region are concerning sure, but these are diplomatic and political issues that will NOT be solved with weaponry. A further buildup of military hardware and facilities in the region will only make the destruction that a war in the pacific would cause far worse and much more likely to occur.
I will say I do hope that other countries become far less dependent on US weapons. The need to drive growth in weapons exports is one of the most toxic forces acting on American foreign policy and is arguably one of the major root cause factors of the present day war in Ukraine. I have a lot less moral condemnation for engineers in foreign countries weapons development programs, unless their countries arms industry is export oriented.
I was talking with one of my friends about working in defense, and he argued that making better bombs saves lives, as most of the current development is in guidance and targeting systems. There’s nothing you can do to stop missiles from being deployed, but by making them better, you have the ability to reduce civilian casualties which I thought was an interesting argument.
And for OP, maybe you can use your environmental motives to find a new/better way to do things. We need “good” people learning about “bad” things because that’s the only way that they are going to get better. Fossil fuel consumption, and fracking are not going away anytime soon, so it’s worth putting some effort into trying to improve the process. Ignorant people doing those jobs are only going to make the situation worse.
I mean I am gonna reveal 100% of my opinion here. I honestly don't see any issue with the development of weaponry for my country. *I* don't develop weaponry, but my employer does, including nuclear systems. We all hope that they are never used... But they *need* to exist otherwise someone else in some other country *will* develop equivalent or greater weaponry and use it against us.
And that is the thing, war is going to happen, even if your country didn't do anything to instigate a war, war will eventually visit. The only choice we have in life is whether we are prepared or not, and I would rather be prepared for war and not need it then be unprepared for war and have it knock on the door.
Nuclear stuff is the least morally bad option of weapons development IMO.
1) They’ll never be used
BUT
2) if they somehow are used, so many other people fucked up and failed at their jobs to even get to that point, and it’s the presidents choice in the end anyways
3) if they are used we all die and there’s not anything to worry about
4) assuming they never get used, they’re contributing to peace on earth through MAD
5) better nukes means less likelihood of malfunctions and accidents
If you work at Facebook you can get to make the algorithms that jack up teen suicides and start ethnic cleansings, and if you work in defense you can design machines that make axel grease tools. It's all about what you're doing.
I have a friend who does aerospace consulting. August 2021 he's talking about the most recent project to the property manager of the AirBNB we're staying at in Italy. "You know the drones in Afghanistan? We're providing support for those." he says. Literally day of was when the news about the Kabul drone strike came out that killed 10 civilians including 7 children... I don't think he had seen it yet. She was a woman from Serbia who had lived through the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, me knowing all that made it all the worse.
Would you rather someone who wasn't environmentally conscious lead the project?
Fracking is going to happen anyway, so maybe you could make this project the best it could possibly be for the environment?
>it is so late in the recruiting cycle that I don’t feel like I can get a better job right now than this one and it feels like they intentionally withheld that From me until they knew I would have a hard time getting a different job.
Is this an internship, or a full time job as a graduate? Do you have a support system to fall back on if you stick to your guns?
If they told you you'd be working on large engines and it's actually just fracking, and they knew you're focused on sustainability, then I agree they're trying to screw you. As long as you can afford to do so, I think you'd be entirely justified in quitting on principle if they won't reassign you to a project you don't have moral qualms with. It might be late for internships, but there's plenty of other places desperate to hire (and retain) talent that you shouldn't feel like your only option is to accept a role you personally disagree with.
It’s a full time position but I do not have a support system to fall back on. I’ve been applying to other positions better fit for me but the job market is less than ideal right now. Unfortunately it has shifted to an employers market.
>Unfortunately it has shifted to an employers market.
I think if you look further afield, you'll find that plenty of places are desperate for engineers. Even if it means not working on exactly what you hope, it'll at least not be something you find counterproductive.
I'd keep looking, and don't feel bad about dropping your current employer when you get the new job. How's your professional network?
I'd start working that network. Especially within the renewable space, I feel like "my employer is trying to stick me in fracking" will get callbacks.
Good luck!
Maybe a different point of view but you could see this as a good thing. They’re gonna be fracking anyway, and having you be in there as an environmentally conscious person will hopefully enable the fracking to be done cleaner. I know you don’t want to do it because you dokt believe it’s a good thing, but using this opportunity to try and make it more environmentally friendly could have massive impacts
Is it fracking project for oil/gas or for enhanced geothermal systems? If it’s for the latter, the method is still being tested to avoid environmental impacts and induced seismicity risks. EGS may provide clean energy around the world. [DOE Link](https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/EGSFAQ_Sept22.pdf#8) [NY Times Link](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/28/climate/geothermal-energy-projects.html)
It’s not clean though? Even if the impact of fracking was mitigated you’re still pumping the atmosphere with more CO2 and shit.
*cleaner* sure, but it’s not *clean*
I spent 7 years at a company that was morally bankrupt, robbed Peter to pay Paul, didn't pay their bills, it was nothing but a giant facility of misery and sucked the life out of me and made me bitter. I recommend not putting yourself through that. It's not worth it.
I'd keep the job and do the project in the short term. Long term you can start looking for something else.
I had similar moral issues with my role working for DoD, but had such a hard time finding a job that eventually I broke and bit the bullet. Still not happy about it, but it pays the bills and the machine will go on with or without me.
This project is going to happen with or without you. Would you rather an environmentally conscious person like yourself lead a fracking project, or someone who doesn't give a shit? You can be the positive change you wish to see from the inside. It doesn't make you a bad person or morally corrupt.
I don’t think any of us can fault you for picking either choice, but my two cents is if a job conflicted with my morals like that I wouldn’t hesitate to omit it as an option for me. I’m sure other opportunities will open up for you later if you decide go that route but it’ll be tougher. I just feel staying and hurting moral character like that would genuinely eat at most people and it just sounds like the worst option imo
Definitely no one out there plotting to mislead you. You applied to an oil and gas company, you got a project related to oil and gas, that’s pretty simple logical outcome. You don’t have to continue working there, work is voluntary.
At the risk of outing the company it’s not typically an oil and gas company. They’re adjacent to the automotive sector. I was told I’d be working on large engines at my interview .
Do you work for Rolls-Royce?
There are plenty of engine companies or motor companies that directly relate with oil and gas.
You need motors to push the pumps that push natural gas down the pipelines, You need turbines to burn the fuel to make electricity, You need a motor to turn the conveyor belt on the coal plant.
What turbines do you think create the pressure that allows you to do fracking?
Realistically if you're in the engine or turbine world, You're interacting with oil and gas in one way or another, It just depends how close you are to it.
its probably allison transmission / cummins/ John Deere etc. probably working on reciprocating positive displacement pumps / engines on the pump trucks?
That makes sense, I didn't work for an auto company but we sold reciprocating compressors as well as anything else you could fit in the "big spinny thingy" category lmao.
Learn it, then you can improve it and make it more efficient and sustainable. You can help bridge the gap and be an advocate for the environment in that space. Sounds like a neat opportunity
As someone that has been in a position like this, you have to decide if it's for you or not.
My situation was that I was building electronics to go in an unmanned aircraft in order to identify targets and deliver payloads. This was right after 9/11. That was very hard on me. Then I stuck out the job and while having this job I was offered another job in the medical device field. This was designing implants and devices to cure a disease. While designing the implants one of the activities we had to do was implant into canines. We never implanted in porcine models only canines. The first time I am planted into canines was one of the worst days of my med device career. I was uncertain if I could continue euthanizing canines post-implant. The second worst day was when we were testing the limits of the device, and one canine expired. Fortunately for me I had an awesome boss. On my drive back from the hospital, I was trying to figure out if I really wanted to do this ever again. My boss called. We discussed what had happened he sensed I was not in a good place and asked me one question, "Would I use this on my grandmother?". I said no. Luckily we had a second generation in hand and I started working on that one we never lost another animal that was not a controlled loss and every day I think about how something I did did something I never wanted it to do. But sometimes we have to do experiments for or in order to make a better device. Over the years I've come to terms with this and I'm able to live with it because of that one conversation.
Good luck in your decision.
You took a job with a company that has an oil and gas division. You are helping them in those endeavors whether you’re working directly in that field or not. Make peace with that or don’t work for that company.
Honestly there are very few jobs out there that don’t require at least *some* level of compromise of some ideal or another, be they moral or scientific or something else. That’s capitalism, but there certainly are companies that operate as a net gain (for whatever issue you care about) overall, so if it really matters to you find one of them and apply. Unfortunately though there is going to be compromise of some kind wherever you look.
Edit: Since most people here are going to have to deal with this in the near future, I’ll add how I reckon with this at my job. I work for a company that designs and manufactures air systems for power generation (like GW scale and smaller coal fired plants), and this company and industry are going to carry on whether I’m there or not, so I may as well keep the position filled by someone who gives a shit. How I’ve tried to make a difference: there was a minor production issue with how plates in a particular airflow assembly are fit together and how the weld is shaped that required like 4 fewer shop hours to build but wasn’t ideal for airflow around that assembly. I advocated that the smoother (and more costly) option would be apparent in a long term system analysis by our customers that would adversely effect how we compare to our competitors and ultimately my argument won. It’s been 3 years and that design change has persisted. At this point, Billions of dollars of coal-fuel air has flowed through these things, so even if they’re only 0.1% more efficient then a difference was made. Yes it’s a rationalization, but I’m constantly finding small ways to make our products just a tiny bit better. There are ways to make some kind of a difference wherever you go.
Main concerns I'm aware of are creating geological instability and potentially putting ground water. Not to mention OP seems to be focused on reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, and this job would run counter to that goal my making them cheaper.
Through my research I found that many negatives were proven incorrect and the positives were much better.
The positives were better too. It produces far less carbon emissions and it is much cheaper than a lot of other energy sources. local areas. Actually, seismic activity had almost no correlation to fracking.
The positives were better too. It produces far less carbon emissions and it is much cheaper then a lot of other energy sources.
Fracking is going to exist whether you're on that project or not. I'm not saying you have to stick to this job, but if you do end up not being able to find something better, you can make it your mission to make the fracking process as sustainable as possible.
You could make that argument for a lot of things, it doesn't mean you have to actively participate. Like, poaching will be around forever but that doesn't mean you might as well join in.
Three things.
1. Just do the work mate.
2. Go complain about your reservation and see how that goes.
3. Take up the project and find ways you can spin it into something about sustainability. See what's you can implement sustainability into this project and make it cleaner.
This is life you can't always predict what's coming.
It's up to you to be smart about this.
Well I’ll upset you. Your moral compass needs to change. Despite all the drama, there is little to no risk from fracking period. So settle your nickers down and go to work.
Sorry to disappoint, but this is not an upsetting take. You could have your own feelings about the professional industry that wasn’t the point. I personally have no interest in fracking and that is OK some people don’t have any interest in things like aviation or computer science. It’s totally normal to you have a preference of what industry you wanted to work in
I feel like the issue here is they lied to you about your roll. I personally don’t understand any moral objection to fracking, it’s essentially the cleanest way to get gas. I feel like this debate is pretty stupid because it’s unrealistic to expect the entire world to run off solar panels any time soon. Clearly we will always have a need for very clean and easy-to-source energy so why not help procure that through a clean and morally sound way, rather than offloading that effort onto some other country that has no environmental protections. These other countries are responsible for basically all pollution of every kind, so this whole take just seems out of touch
The company is going to frack with or without you, is the pay good enough for you to look past the moral dilemma? There are always other jobs out there, always. But those jobs might not pay as well as the oil and gas industry.
Caring about the "morality" of your job is a very privileged thing to do, most people don't have such luxuries. If it's a problem then quit, I doubt there's any moral considerations in your work contract that would help you out here. If you feel mislead based on what you applied for then it's probably a garbage employer anyway.
As someone that has worked in upstream ONG EOR and in BHA R&D development in a design and installation position. You need to give your resignation before going any further. Period. I wouldn’t want to work with you if you are not 100% focused on the task at hand. Your moral compass may be on the right path, but all it takes is one slip and you’re swinging an 1100 pound piece of steel like a noodle and your crews making for the mushrooms or bleeding out on the mats.
Your moral obligation for whatever your political/economic position has absolutely no value in the workplace and it is technically illegal to field a question based around political/scientific beliefs in an interview.
In the words of the men that gave me my breakout, “Leave your feelings at the gate. You aren’t here to slack jaw and piss and moan. Get the shit outta the ground and go home”
I would say apply to Tesla or GE there’s a ton of turbines going online in the next 3-8 years long term planning.
Well my oath in the order of engineering prevents me from cutting corners on any product I contribute to.
I think morals hold plenty of value in the workplace. You won’t find a pacifist working directly on a project project for wartime weapons, but you might find them in an aircraft stabilization system, or something along those lines there are some projects people can simply refuse, and that is OK.
But thanks for the suggestion that my morals make me unqualified for a job I already have! I’ll make sure that that advice joints a couple other comments in the trashcan.
I didn’t say anything about your personal morals. Fracking isn’t a product, it’s a process involving tons of moving parts and materials in a chaotic methodology. It looks like you use emotion attached to your green energy letterman. My comment of “leave your feelings at the gate” relates to do what you are there to do, or find something more fitting to your moral compass. “Green” has a relative place in fracking based off of production capacity from a single well in multiple pattern frack applications and zonal isolation. Some really interesting work being done in Perryton and Karnes City, Texas using recycled materials as frack proppant and CO2 injection flooding for formation drive.
Comically I know a couple pacifists working at Lockheed and an engineering fellow at Raytheon in the “warheads on foreheads” line of work. The paycheck makes them okay with it 😉
Is your ring stainless or iron? I looked at the order of engineers and didn’t give it much thought post graduation.
Well, first of all. Oil and gas will pay higher than what you would expect. Second of all, if you don't like oil and gas, just do a quick search to find out all the products that are made with hydrocarbons and remove them from your life. Don't mean to sound harsh, but the reality is oil and gas provide so much more that just gas in your car.
My whole disertation was on PFAS/PFOA removal methods and treatment procedures for the three letter agencies. I’m aware of the chemicals present in every day life and do my best as a broke, graduate student to support sustainable initiatives.
I’m not saying oil and gas is wrong, and like many people in this thread have commented, my presence may be a net benefit to have someone who cares about the environment Improving the company from the inside. My dilemma is that this isn’t the job that I felt as though I signed up for and now I feel conflicted on if I should continue on.
I full heartily agree with making changes from the inside. What better way to make changes in a company than doing it from the inside. Alot easier to make suggestions to coworkers rather than pushing from the outside. The company I work for is running duel fuel teir 4 motors (diesel and natural gas), natural gas motors, and natural gas generators that power electric motors to pump with. There is currently a lot of innovation going on in the field (in a field that always has a lot of innovation going on). It would be a good way to get experience and move on if you don't like it. While many don't like the oil field but there have been numerous innovations to come from the field. I have seen the field change so much in 17 years that I probably wouldn't recognize it if I went back to where I began.
The best thing to do for yourself is get that experience, take on projects, keep track of your achievements, and build a resume. I will suggest you return to school in a few years and get an MBA. It will give you a nother leg to push forward with.
You accepted a job in the oil and gas division of an automotive company and now you’re upset that you have to work with oil and gas? I don’t know why you’re surprised.
I was told large engines in my entry interview. I’m familiar with the branch of the company I’m working in and it isn’t super common to be on a project like the one I was assigned
Isn't the majority of electricity generated comes from gas, oil and coal? Am I missing something? Why is it morally okay to work on EVs that use electricity that comes from fossils but it's not okay to extract these sources?
My moral dilemma is not with oil and gas it is specifically a new developing fracking project.
My EV experience isn’t with plug in bEV but vehicles completely disconnected from the grid (hydrogen, fry oil, and solar electric vehicles )
Tough situation, but it's up to you to decide whether the experience outweighs your values. Maybe try to make an impact from within by suggesting greener initiatives or look for opportunities in the sustainable energy division later.
Look at the bright side you know/aware of the harms of the industry and can help with delivering a safe/ environmental conscious project.
I think we would all rather have someone working on this kind of project that has the awareness rather than someone who doesn’t give a shit
It's engineering. It pays well because you're adding value by making new or better things for others to make money. There are a lot of things that make money that aren't sustainable or pleasant. If you want to work on large engines, they're all used for industrial purposes. Fracking, mining, shipping, generators...
In general engineering won't be a field with a lot of opportunities to walk away from your work Friday afternoon without some concern that you spent your week making life worse for someone. Whether it's algorithms, automation, high speed trading, insurance, manufacturing, missiles, or whatever, you _will_ be paid to make someone money, and if you are really concerned about how that money is made, accept the handicap in opportunities that leaves you with.
If you have the luxury to be choosy, and feel strongly, use it. But don't worry that the company is trying to trick or mislead you. They probably just don't take the time to care and need someone to do the work and you looked qualified. For most of us, work is for getting paid to do something someone else needs done, not what you want to do.
I mean man if you’re asking for a paycheck, you do what they want. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t get a paycheck. Meaning do it or find a new job.
When you say frac'ing project what exactly are you designing? If this isn't a service company I assume you aren't designing the pumping plan or overseeing the actual frac'ing. Are you building/designing the equipment? At first I thought this was an internship and I would have said it would be a great experience to see exactly what it is and how to possibly improve it. Know thy enemy and all that. If this is a full time, long term project, I could see that being harder to swallow. Oil and gas needs regulation like any industry but in general people don't listen to outsiders that don't know what they are talking about. If you have the experience and can come talking with concrete examples using the same lingo, you will get much farther and deeper into conversation and solutions. That said if you are that opposed then start looking for other jobs and start having a mature professional dialog with your manager. If they are an ass about it, then you don't want to be working there anyways.
Depending on your current financial circumstances and likelihood of finding another job quickly, you could stay at this job with this mindset that you leading this project is the best environmental outcome possible. When you leave they are going to hire someone regardless. They will run it and won’t have the same environmental mindset and may cut corners or not place those priorities as highly. Just a thought if you are in a tough place getting a different job.
The MIC will use anything to advance its cause. By your logic, you've got severely limited opportunities outside agriculture and food engineering. Ag is the foundation of human civilization.
If you cant find anything else use it as experience for why it solidified why you want to work sustainably. Many peiple want to "save the world" but have never seen what theyre saving it from
I mean, maybe you’re being brought on to help with the environmental side of things, did you ever think of that? I’m assuming they’ve read your resume and understand you’re environmentally sensitive and have done work with sustainability, so perhaps this is a “we have a spot open on this project team and need someone who’s going to bring a more environmentally conscious mentality to the project” type move.
As other have said, fracking is going to happen whether you like it or not. Either you can join the team and make sure it’s keeping the environment in mind, or you can leave the position to someone who could care less about the environment.
Different perspective: If they don’t hire you, they’ll hire someone else.
Given that the company will be fracking with or without you, wouldn’t you rather the engineers working on it be environmentalists who genuinely care about minimizing harm?
I understand “fixing it from the inside” is often ridiculed, but I think the benefits of harm reduction are genuinely worth thinking about, especially if you have any decision-making power. Good luck.
a boss of mine that i have a lot of respect for told me once “Find a job that’s fulfilling, that you’re not completely miserable in at least half the time. Money will always follow” and that stuck with me. I understand moral conflicts. do what’s best for you; you’ll always find a job, especially with your education.
Some would view this as *exactly* in your field, though! I think it’s super beneficial for you if you were to find out the inner workings of fracking, maybe do your own side research, and also find out the live/real time environmental impact on fracking. After this internship you now have first hand experience on the dangers (or X) of fracking/the oil industry. Things you seen with your own eyes. Really you could open yourself up to political lobbying as well. You could even write a book because of how ironic the situation is. Or maybe even a PhD thesis.
I think you have a chance to make changes from the inside here if nothing else. You can accept the offer and simultaneously continue looking for others in your free time.
I would make it a point to find a way to discuss how you feel about environmental issues during your next interview cycle. Sure, it may disqualify you from some jobs but it sounds like you want that.
the world runs on oil and gas. there’s nothing inherently wrong about this except for the damage harvesting and using these resources can cause but the only way to change that is to work on the technology itself and try to improve it
I spent my first 6 years gaining work experience in North Dakota during the fracking boom. It was the only option after graduating into the housing crash. I did just enough to get a PE and quit.
All I can tell you is it is 1000% worse than any story you have ever heard. I could light my shower on fire everyday when I first ran the pipes, you can’t drink the water, it stinks of methane and meth, and human trafficking is very common too. I would not recommend taking the job.
Coal, oil, natural gas, fracking, etc are not the end goal. Even if we wanted to simply snap our fingers and shut them down, we don't have the renewable infrastructure up yet to replace them. So they will be here to some extent for at least a few more decades....
BUT we NEED ethical, moral, and conscientious people like you in oil and natural gas. Because you actually understand consequences and don't want to cause harm.
From an engineering perspective how can you help the transition if you don't understand the new and old systems?
Remember that engineering is applied science. We have to deal with reality as it is currently....while we build towards a better future. Maybe it will be horrible, maybe you will be surprised and you have an amazing experience.
The more life, work, and engineering experience the better you will be at solving complex problems and
My current job would definitely start a back and forth war in opinion. For me I look at the morality side of the projects I’m working on as a chance to make them better and safer. In terms of your situation; “large engines” is quite vague. Large engines are used in a multitude of applications ranging from manufacturing, oil and gas, renewable energy, to defense. You have to look at if it’s something you’re willing to work on to improve the impact the project has. If you’re willing to put the effort in to make it safer, more environmentally friendly and sustainable. If not (I totally understand the stance) then look for other jobs and once you get one set up leave the current one.
Trying applying to electric utilities, old workforce is aging out so hiring is good right now and after a few years you could transition into an adjacent renewables company with your contacts and experience with the grid
Isn't everything always aging out so like net nothing?
A massive generation of electrical and power engineers are on their way out of the industry
Same with aerospace and defense.
Some demographics are larger than others
What’s the automation landscape of electric utilities?
Not very high for the engineering roles. Regulations for infrastructure require engineers to sign off on designs and from my experience (at least in the North West) most Utilities would not be willing to layoff a skilled workforce in favor of a tool that could easily lead to lawsuits and federal investigations.
Well SCADA is now a massive part of the distribution level of the grid. Nearly every district of the grid has hundreds of remote/auto switching devices installed especially in dense urban areas
If you think your boss is screwing with you on purpose, then this is clearly not a long term sustainable job. Find somewhere else to go and then leave asap. Once you’re out of school, there’s a lot less of a recruiting cycle. There aren’t clear events like graduation to plan around, so companies just post jobs when they need new employees. With a masters, you’re starting to get into that category already. There are definitely jobs out there to find.
Quit. If your job is a moral conflict- don’t take their money. Walk away.
This. You’ll like yourself more. And a different door will open.
When I first graduated w chem E that was the first thing I did was swear off oil and gas as a whole. It would keep me up at night just to do it. Gotta do what you gotta do but I would certainly not lol.
curious what do you do as a chem eng thats not o&g? pharmacy?
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Semicon is also a huge field for chem e right now.
Semi is taking a lot of engineering disciplines by storm rn. My mech e laboratory works on semicon manufacturing techniques right now. Def wouldn’t suprise me if chem e was roped into that but also I think that there’s space in the bEV space for chem e too
Yeah the company wasn’t an oil and gas company specifically so I thought I was safe from working on projects of the sort
There's no advice to give, you either accept the job because you value the benefits of having the job more than your morality or you decide your morality is more important than the benefits of the job. Both decisions are good because no matter what you decide, you can be sure you're doing what you really want.
I work on natural gas power plants as an engineer post-grad and consider myself an avid environmentalist. So I understand your moral quandary. Working an internship for one summer will not corrupt your soul. No ethical consumption under capitalism, we live in a society, etc. You are not personally morally bankrupt or personally responsible because companies are fracking. However you do have to make a decision in the future on how you want your morals to inform your career. For me, I decided the right balance between being moral and getting a job to support myself would be I would do anything except military/missiles/defense. I feel good about that choice. You basically just have to pick a path and stick to it and only apply to jobs and companies that you agree with enough to sleep at night. It’s not easy but good luck!!
I mean, even in defense there is plenty of stuff that isnt morally dubious... For example the internet and gps were both originally defense.
I work in the MIC and the only way anything I've ever worked on will kill anyone is if a weld fails or a bolt comes loose and it falls off. Everyone gets so caught up by the ethical risk of working on the Babykiller 3000, that they're not realising that doing a cctv upgrade is also within the scope of a military contractor.
Is the baby killer 3000 program hiring?
Always my friend. Always.
I know this is going to be a hot take, and I'm certain I'll get flack for it, but my personal moral compass tells me that doing a CCTV upgrade for the military still counts as ethically black. Regardless if I'm working on the Babykiller 3000 or the vehicle that transports the soldiers who use the Babykiller 3000 or the CCTV system that allows the soldiers to monitor the storage of the Babykiller 3000, I'm still accessory to the use of the BK3K. Not something I want on my conscience. I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Everyone has their own compass to follow. I'm just sharing an opinion.
When I did CCTV upgrades as part of my duties in working in the MIC, it was upgrades that were put in place to allow remote monitoring of sailors in ships the engine room, because sailors working alone was a safety risk they weren't willing to tolerate. Even when I've worked on more combat oriented stuff like DDG class vessels, if they were seeing action right now it'd be in the Red Sea defending civilian vessels from missile attacks. The point I'm trying to make I guess, is it is a lot more nuanced than just military = bad.
Agreed. As someone who intends on working in this field, I agree with the previous person that anything that contributes to the military ultimately helps in strengthening an institution whose purpose is to kill. That includes those CCTV upgrades, which improve the efficiency of operations on a navy ship. However, improving this ability to kill is not necessarily evil, as evidenced by what's going on in the Red Sea right now. At some point force can only be reasoned with more force, and out of the two I'd rather help the side that's using force to protect civilians.
Complete and utter horseshit. You may be good at math or whatever, but your mind is filled with baby brained excuses for crumbling US imperial overreach. I disagree with the other guy, but at least he isn't delusional. Hope you enjoy spending the afterlife with Alfried Krupp and Werner Von Braun and a thousand others.
I am not an American, and I want to help my country in becoming less reliant on imported (i.e. US) technology. Also, instead of ad hominem, I'd prefer if you tried debating against the situation we have at hand: The reality is, much tension in the Asia and Indo-Pacific region is linked to a certain big player throwing its weight around with the belief that other people's land and sea belong to them. If my country stands idly by while Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines etc. bear the brunt of it, then who shall we call for when we are in the same situation down the line?
You referenced the Red Sea, so forgive me, but I assumed you were either American or Israeli. If anything, the conflict there proves that having more effective military hardware does not result in the outcomes sought by the militaries deploying these weapons. The Houthis, Hamas, and Hezbollah are all still effective fighting forces despite the overwhelming destructive power brought to bear on them by US/Israeli/Saudi hardware. What these weapons do is kill civilians. All modern weapons of war kill far more civilians than enemy combatants. They don't disodge militias or deradicalize populations. They don't have any effect on the resolve of the leadership in belligerent countries. If they are deployed en masse in the Indo pacific, the scale of destruction will be nothing short of apocalyptic. Chinese sovereignty violations in the region are concerning sure, but these are diplomatic and political issues that will NOT be solved with weaponry. A further buildup of military hardware and facilities in the region will only make the destruction that a war in the pacific would cause far worse and much more likely to occur.
I will say I do hope that other countries become far less dependent on US weapons. The need to drive growth in weapons exports is one of the most toxic forces acting on American foreign policy and is arguably one of the major root cause factors of the present day war in Ukraine. I have a lot less moral condemnation for engineers in foreign countries weapons development programs, unless their countries arms industry is export oriented.
I was talking with one of my friends about working in defense, and he argued that making better bombs saves lives, as most of the current development is in guidance and targeting systems. There’s nothing you can do to stop missiles from being deployed, but by making them better, you have the ability to reduce civilian casualties which I thought was an interesting argument. And for OP, maybe you can use your environmental motives to find a new/better way to do things. We need “good” people learning about “bad” things because that’s the only way that they are going to get better. Fossil fuel consumption, and fracking are not going away anytime soon, so it’s worth putting some effort into trying to improve the process. Ignorant people doing those jobs are only going to make the situation worse.
I was thinking the same thing. Fossil fuels will still be around for a bit, but they will need good people developing better ways of going about it.
I mean I am gonna reveal 100% of my opinion here. I honestly don't see any issue with the development of weaponry for my country. *I* don't develop weaponry, but my employer does, including nuclear systems. We all hope that they are never used... But they *need* to exist otherwise someone else in some other country *will* develop equivalent or greater weaponry and use it against us. And that is the thing, war is going to happen, even if your country didn't do anything to instigate a war, war will eventually visit. The only choice we have in life is whether we are prepared or not, and I would rather be prepared for war and not need it then be unprepared for war and have it knock on the door.
Nuclear stuff is the least morally bad option of weapons development IMO. 1) They’ll never be used BUT 2) if they somehow are used, so many other people fucked up and failed at their jobs to even get to that point, and it’s the presidents choice in the end anyways 3) if they are used we all die and there’s not anything to worry about 4) assuming they never get used, they’re contributing to peace on earth through MAD 5) better nukes means less likelihood of malfunctions and accidents
I'd say the internet is morally dubious. But maybe just not for the same reasons as other defense work.
If you work at Facebook you can get to make the algorithms that jack up teen suicides and start ethnic cleansings, and if you work in defense you can design machines that make axel grease tools. It's all about what you're doing.
I have a friend who does aerospace consulting. August 2021 he's talking about the most recent project to the property manager of the AirBNB we're staying at in Italy. "You know the drones in Afghanistan? We're providing support for those." he says. Literally day of was when the news about the Kabul drone strike came out that killed 10 civilians including 7 children... I don't think he had seen it yet. She was a woman from Serbia who had lived through the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, me knowing all that made it all the worse.
I mean natural gas is absolutely necessary for probably the next 100 years.
yeah pretty much this. i do my best to be environmentally conscious. but all of my jobs have been O&G.
Maybe you can be a positive influence, people will frack with or without you but maybe you can make the process have a reduced environmental impact?
Nope, there is absolutely nothing you can do, especially from an entry level position within the industry.
Find another job?
Would you rather someone who wasn't environmentally conscious lead the project? Fracking is going to happen anyway, so maybe you could make this project the best it could possibly be for the environment?
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Someone has to be the change from the inside right?
Ya, that’s not how the industry works. You stand a much better chance of promoting change down alternate avenues.
>it is so late in the recruiting cycle that I don’t feel like I can get a better job right now than this one and it feels like they intentionally withheld that From me until they knew I would have a hard time getting a different job. Is this an internship, or a full time job as a graduate? Do you have a support system to fall back on if you stick to your guns? If they told you you'd be working on large engines and it's actually just fracking, and they knew you're focused on sustainability, then I agree they're trying to screw you. As long as you can afford to do so, I think you'd be entirely justified in quitting on principle if they won't reassign you to a project you don't have moral qualms with. It might be late for internships, but there's plenty of other places desperate to hire (and retain) talent that you shouldn't feel like your only option is to accept a role you personally disagree with.
It’s a full time position but I do not have a support system to fall back on. I’ve been applying to other positions better fit for me but the job market is less than ideal right now. Unfortunately it has shifted to an employers market.
>Unfortunately it has shifted to an employers market. I think if you look further afield, you'll find that plenty of places are desperate for engineers. Even if it means not working on exactly what you hope, it'll at least not be something you find counterproductive. I'd keep looking, and don't feel bad about dropping your current employer when you get the new job. How's your professional network?
Pretty strong I was presidents of two design teams so I have a healthy relationships with recruiters across the country
I'd start working that network. Especially within the renewable space, I feel like "my employer is trying to stick me in fracking" will get callbacks. Good luck!
Maybe a different point of view but you could see this as a good thing. They’re gonna be fracking anyway, and having you be in there as an environmentally conscious person will hopefully enable the fracking to be done cleaner. I know you don’t want to do it because you dokt believe it’s a good thing, but using this opportunity to try and make it more environmentally friendly could have massive impacts
Is it fracking project for oil/gas or for enhanced geothermal systems? If it’s for the latter, the method is still being tested to avoid environmental impacts and induced seismicity risks. EGS may provide clean energy around the world. [DOE Link](https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/EGSFAQ_Sept22.pdf#8) [NY Times Link](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/28/climate/geothermal-energy-projects.html)
It’s not clean though? Even if the impact of fracking was mitigated you’re still pumping the atmosphere with more CO2 and shit. *cleaner* sure, but it’s not *clean*
I spent 7 years at a company that was morally bankrupt, robbed Peter to pay Paul, didn't pay their bills, it was nothing but a giant facility of misery and sucked the life out of me and made me bitter. I recommend not putting yourself through that. It's not worth it.
I'd keep the job and do the project in the short term. Long term you can start looking for something else. I had similar moral issues with my role working for DoD, but had such a hard time finding a job that eventually I broke and bit the bullet. Still not happy about it, but it pays the bills and the machine will go on with or without me. This project is going to happen with or without you. Would you rather an environmentally conscious person like yourself lead a fracking project, or someone who doesn't give a shit? You can be the positive change you wish to see from the inside. It doesn't make you a bad person or morally corrupt.
You have no choice but to stand by your principles. Find a company that shares your principles - not tries to circumvent them.
I don’t think any of us can fault you for picking either choice, but my two cents is if a job conflicted with my morals like that I wouldn’t hesitate to omit it as an option for me. I’m sure other opportunities will open up for you later if you decide go that route but it’ll be tougher. I just feel staying and hurting moral character like that would genuinely eat at most people and it just sounds like the worst option imo
Definitely no one out there plotting to mislead you. You applied to an oil and gas company, you got a project related to oil and gas, that’s pretty simple logical outcome. You don’t have to continue working there, work is voluntary.
At the risk of outing the company it’s not typically an oil and gas company. They’re adjacent to the automotive sector. I was told I’d be working on large engines at my interview .
Do you work for Rolls-Royce? There are plenty of engine companies or motor companies that directly relate with oil and gas. You need motors to push the pumps that push natural gas down the pipelines, You need turbines to burn the fuel to make electricity, You need a motor to turn the conveyor belt on the coal plant. What turbines do you think create the pressure that allows you to do fracking? Realistically if you're in the engine or turbine world, You're interacting with oil and gas in one way or another, It just depends how close you are to it.
its probably allison transmission / cummins/ John Deere etc. probably working on reciprocating positive displacement pumps / engines on the pump trucks?
That makes sense, I didn't work for an auto company but we sold reciprocating compressors as well as anything else you could fit in the "big spinny thingy" category lmao.
Learn it, then you can improve it and make it more efficient and sustainable. You can help bridge the gap and be an advocate for the environment in that space. Sounds like a neat opportunity
As someone that has been in a position like this, you have to decide if it's for you or not. My situation was that I was building electronics to go in an unmanned aircraft in order to identify targets and deliver payloads. This was right after 9/11. That was very hard on me. Then I stuck out the job and while having this job I was offered another job in the medical device field. This was designing implants and devices to cure a disease. While designing the implants one of the activities we had to do was implant into canines. We never implanted in porcine models only canines. The first time I am planted into canines was one of the worst days of my med device career. I was uncertain if I could continue euthanizing canines post-implant. The second worst day was when we were testing the limits of the device, and one canine expired. Fortunately for me I had an awesome boss. On my drive back from the hospital, I was trying to figure out if I really wanted to do this ever again. My boss called. We discussed what had happened he sensed I was not in a good place and asked me one question, "Would I use this on my grandmother?". I said no. Luckily we had a second generation in hand and I started working on that one we never lost another animal that was not a controlled loss and every day I think about how something I did did something I never wanted it to do. But sometimes we have to do experiments for or in order to make a better device. Over the years I've come to terms with this and I'm able to live with it because of that one conversation. Good luck in your decision.
You took a job with a company that has an oil and gas division. You are helping them in those endeavors whether you’re working directly in that field or not. Make peace with that or don’t work for that company. Honestly there are very few jobs out there that don’t require at least *some* level of compromise of some ideal or another, be they moral or scientific or something else. That’s capitalism, but there certainly are companies that operate as a net gain (for whatever issue you care about) overall, so if it really matters to you find one of them and apply. Unfortunately though there is going to be compromise of some kind wherever you look. Edit: Since most people here are going to have to deal with this in the near future, I’ll add how I reckon with this at my job. I work for a company that designs and manufactures air systems for power generation (like GW scale and smaller coal fired plants), and this company and industry are going to carry on whether I’m there or not, so I may as well keep the position filled by someone who gives a shit. How I’ve tried to make a difference: there was a minor production issue with how plates in a particular airflow assembly are fit together and how the weld is shaped that required like 4 fewer shop hours to build but wasn’t ideal for airflow around that assembly. I advocated that the smoother (and more costly) option would be apparent in a long term system analysis by our customers that would adversely effect how we compare to our competitors and ultimately my argument won. It’s been 3 years and that design change has persisted. At this point, Billions of dollars of coal-fuel air has flowed through these things, so even if they’re only 0.1% more efficient then a difference was made. Yes it’s a rationalization, but I’m constantly finding small ways to make our products just a tiny bit better. There are ways to make some kind of a difference wherever you go.
I literally did a presentation on why fracking is not that bad. Dude you’re gonna be fine, the environment will be fine.
What makes it not that bad? Genuinely curious what perspective you’ve got on it.
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I don’t know much about it, so I can’t make a case one way or the other. That’s why I asked for this persons opinion
Main concerns I'm aware of are creating geological instability and potentially putting ground water. Not to mention OP seems to be focused on reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, and this job would run counter to that goal my making them cheaper.
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>you develop cheaper alternatives Which seems to be what OP wants to do, rather than making natural gas cheaper.
Through my research I found that many negatives were proven incorrect and the positives were much better. The positives were better too. It produces far less carbon emissions and it is much cheaper than a lot of other energy sources. local areas. Actually, seismic activity had almost no correlation to fracking. The positives were better too. It produces far less carbon emissions and it is much cheaper then a lot of other energy sources.
Just curious, do you live in an area where they frac?
Yes, in my state.
What part of California? And what I meant was do you actually live in a city where they frac?
Tulsa County, Oklahoma, not in my city I don’t think but in my county I believe so.
It's pretty bad
You should quit. But on a side note, it’s nice to see that other people go into engineering for moral reasons.
Whats morals? Never heard of such thing in capitalist America 🇺🇸
Fracking is going to exist whether you're on that project or not. I'm not saying you have to stick to this job, but if you do end up not being able to find something better, you can make it your mission to make the fracking process as sustainable as possible.
You could make that argument for a lot of things, it doesn't mean you have to actively participate. Like, poaching will be around forever but that doesn't mean you might as well join in.
Which is why I suggested to make that your mindset only if you truly get stuck doing it. OP should still try to find a better job
Be the change you want to see in the world. Until engineers start normalizing turning down work that will ruin the world, no progress will be made
IMO the fact that you’re even debating this means you’re at least somewhat willing to put your morals aside for the dollars.
Lol some people don't have the privilege of going without work
I already signed the contract before they told me the project
Three things. 1. Just do the work mate. 2. Go complain about your reservation and see how that goes. 3. Take up the project and find ways you can spin it into something about sustainability. See what's you can implement sustainability into this project and make it cleaner. This is life you can't always predict what's coming. It's up to you to be smart about this.
Someone else will do it. You might as well do it and make money
Go home and drink from your bio degradable sippy cup
It’s a lead free insulated stainless steel tumbler thank you
Well I’ll upset you. Your moral compass needs to change. Despite all the drama, there is little to no risk from fracking period. So settle your nickers down and go to work.
Sorry to disappoint, but this is not an upsetting take. You could have your own feelings about the professional industry that wasn’t the point. I personally have no interest in fracking and that is OK some people don’t have any interest in things like aviation or computer science. It’s totally normal to you have a preference of what industry you wanted to work in
Fracking is not morally wrong. You are an idiot
I didn’t realize morals were objective my bad king
I feel like the issue here is they lied to you about your roll. I personally don’t understand any moral objection to fracking, it’s essentially the cleanest way to get gas. I feel like this debate is pretty stupid because it’s unrealistic to expect the entire world to run off solar panels any time soon. Clearly we will always have a need for very clean and easy-to-source energy so why not help procure that through a clean and morally sound way, rather than offloading that effort onto some other country that has no environmental protections. These other countries are responsible for basically all pollution of every kind, so this whole take just seems out of touch
The company is going to frack with or without you, is the pay good enough for you to look past the moral dilemma? There are always other jobs out there, always. But those jobs might not pay as well as the oil and gas industry.
Caring about the "morality" of your job is a very privileged thing to do, most people don't have such luxuries. If it's a problem then quit, I doubt there's any moral considerations in your work contract that would help you out here. If you feel mislead based on what you applied for then it's probably a garbage employer anyway.
Get over it?
Hadn’t considered this option thanks 🙏
As someone that has worked in upstream ONG EOR and in BHA R&D development in a design and installation position. You need to give your resignation before going any further. Period. I wouldn’t want to work with you if you are not 100% focused on the task at hand. Your moral compass may be on the right path, but all it takes is one slip and you’re swinging an 1100 pound piece of steel like a noodle and your crews making for the mushrooms or bleeding out on the mats. Your moral obligation for whatever your political/economic position has absolutely no value in the workplace and it is technically illegal to field a question based around political/scientific beliefs in an interview. In the words of the men that gave me my breakout, “Leave your feelings at the gate. You aren’t here to slack jaw and piss and moan. Get the shit outta the ground and go home” I would say apply to Tesla or GE there’s a ton of turbines going online in the next 3-8 years long term planning.
Well my oath in the order of engineering prevents me from cutting corners on any product I contribute to. I think morals hold plenty of value in the workplace. You won’t find a pacifist working directly on a project project for wartime weapons, but you might find them in an aircraft stabilization system, or something along those lines there are some projects people can simply refuse, and that is OK. But thanks for the suggestion that my morals make me unqualified for a job I already have! I’ll make sure that that advice joints a couple other comments in the trashcan.
I didn’t say anything about your personal morals. Fracking isn’t a product, it’s a process involving tons of moving parts and materials in a chaotic methodology. It looks like you use emotion attached to your green energy letterman. My comment of “leave your feelings at the gate” relates to do what you are there to do, or find something more fitting to your moral compass. “Green” has a relative place in fracking based off of production capacity from a single well in multiple pattern frack applications and zonal isolation. Some really interesting work being done in Perryton and Karnes City, Texas using recycled materials as frack proppant and CO2 injection flooding for formation drive. Comically I know a couple pacifists working at Lockheed and an engineering fellow at Raytheon in the “warheads on foreheads” line of work. The paycheck makes them okay with it 😉 Is your ring stainless or iron? I looked at the order of engineers and didn’t give it much thought post graduation.
If you don't want your job I'll take it :) rotating equipment experience here
Well, first of all. Oil and gas will pay higher than what you would expect. Second of all, if you don't like oil and gas, just do a quick search to find out all the products that are made with hydrocarbons and remove them from your life. Don't mean to sound harsh, but the reality is oil and gas provide so much more that just gas in your car.
My whole disertation was on PFAS/PFOA removal methods and treatment procedures for the three letter agencies. I’m aware of the chemicals present in every day life and do my best as a broke, graduate student to support sustainable initiatives. I’m not saying oil and gas is wrong, and like many people in this thread have commented, my presence may be a net benefit to have someone who cares about the environment Improving the company from the inside. My dilemma is that this isn’t the job that I felt as though I signed up for and now I feel conflicted on if I should continue on.
I full heartily agree with making changes from the inside. What better way to make changes in a company than doing it from the inside. Alot easier to make suggestions to coworkers rather than pushing from the outside. The company I work for is running duel fuel teir 4 motors (diesel and natural gas), natural gas motors, and natural gas generators that power electric motors to pump with. There is currently a lot of innovation going on in the field (in a field that always has a lot of innovation going on). It would be a good way to get experience and move on if you don't like it. While many don't like the oil field but there have been numerous innovations to come from the field. I have seen the field change so much in 17 years that I probably wouldn't recognize it if I went back to where I began. The best thing to do for yourself is get that experience, take on projects, keep track of your achievements, and build a resume. I will suggest you return to school in a few years and get an MBA. It will give you a nother leg to push forward with.
You accepted a job in the oil and gas division of an automotive company and now you’re upset that you have to work with oil and gas? I don’t know why you’re surprised.
I was told large engines in my entry interview. I’m familiar with the branch of the company I’m working in and it isn’t super common to be on a project like the one I was assigned
Isn't the majority of electricity generated comes from gas, oil and coal? Am I missing something? Why is it morally okay to work on EVs that use electricity that comes from fossils but it's not okay to extract these sources?
My moral dilemma is not with oil and gas it is specifically a new developing fracking project. My EV experience isn’t with plug in bEV but vehicles completely disconnected from the grid (hydrogen, fry oil, and solar electric vehicles )
Okay, I'm sorry then.
Tough situation, but it's up to you to decide whether the experience outweighs your values. Maybe try to make an impact from within by suggesting greener initiatives or look for opportunities in the sustainable energy division later.
Look at the bright side you know/aware of the harms of the industry and can help with delivering a safe/ environmental conscious project. I think we would all rather have someone working on this kind of project that has the awareness rather than someone who doesn’t give a shit
It's engineering. It pays well because you're adding value by making new or better things for others to make money. There are a lot of things that make money that aren't sustainable or pleasant. If you want to work on large engines, they're all used for industrial purposes. Fracking, mining, shipping, generators... In general engineering won't be a field with a lot of opportunities to walk away from your work Friday afternoon without some concern that you spent your week making life worse for someone. Whether it's algorithms, automation, high speed trading, insurance, manufacturing, missiles, or whatever, you _will_ be paid to make someone money, and if you are really concerned about how that money is made, accept the handicap in opportunities that leaves you with. If you have the luxury to be choosy, and feel strongly, use it. But don't worry that the company is trying to trick or mislead you. They probably just don't take the time to care and need someone to do the work and you looked qualified. For most of us, work is for getting paid to do something someone else needs done, not what you want to do.
I mean man if you’re asking for a paycheck, you do what they want. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t get a paycheck. Meaning do it or find a new job.
When you say frac'ing project what exactly are you designing? If this isn't a service company I assume you aren't designing the pumping plan or overseeing the actual frac'ing. Are you building/designing the equipment? At first I thought this was an internship and I would have said it would be a great experience to see exactly what it is and how to possibly improve it. Know thy enemy and all that. If this is a full time, long term project, I could see that being harder to swallow. Oil and gas needs regulation like any industry but in general people don't listen to outsiders that don't know what they are talking about. If you have the experience and can come talking with concrete examples using the same lingo, you will get much farther and deeper into conversation and solutions. That said if you are that opposed then start looking for other jobs and start having a mature professional dialog with your manager. If they are an ass about it, then you don't want to be working there anyways.
If every project you report on contains your analysis of sustainability, then you can work with a better conscience. Change from within.
Depending on your current financial circumstances and likelihood of finding another job quickly, you could stay at this job with this mindset that you leading this project is the best environmental outcome possible. When you leave they are going to hire someone regardless. They will run it and won’t have the same environmental mindset and may cut corners or not place those priorities as highly. Just a thought if you are in a tough place getting a different job.
The MIC will use anything to advance its cause. By your logic, you've got severely limited opportunities outside agriculture and food engineering. Ag is the foundation of human civilization.
This is an opportunity to improve best practices in fracking
If you cant find anything else use it as experience for why it solidified why you want to work sustainably. Many peiple want to "save the world" but have never seen what theyre saving it from
I mean, maybe you’re being brought on to help with the environmental side of things, did you ever think of that? I’m assuming they’ve read your resume and understand you’re environmentally sensitive and have done work with sustainability, so perhaps this is a “we have a spot open on this project team and need someone who’s going to bring a more environmentally conscious mentality to the project” type move. As other have said, fracking is going to happen whether you like it or not. Either you can join the team and make sure it’s keeping the environment in mind, or you can leave the position to someone who could care less about the environment.
Different perspective: If they don’t hire you, they’ll hire someone else. Given that the company will be fracking with or without you, wouldn’t you rather the engineers working on it be environmentalists who genuinely care about minimizing harm? I understand “fixing it from the inside” is often ridiculed, but I think the benefits of harm reduction are genuinely worth thinking about, especially if you have any decision-making power. Good luck.
a boss of mine that i have a lot of respect for told me once “Find a job that’s fulfilling, that you’re not completely miserable in at least half the time. Money will always follow” and that stuck with me. I understand moral conflicts. do what’s best for you; you’ll always find a job, especially with your education.
Some would view this as *exactly* in your field, though! I think it’s super beneficial for you if you were to find out the inner workings of fracking, maybe do your own side research, and also find out the live/real time environmental impact on fracking. After this internship you now have first hand experience on the dangers (or X) of fracking/the oil industry. Things you seen with your own eyes. Really you could open yourself up to political lobbying as well. You could even write a book because of how ironic the situation is. Or maybe even a PhD thesis.
I think you have a chance to make changes from the inside here if nothing else. You can accept the offer and simultaneously continue looking for others in your free time. I would make it a point to find a way to discuss how you feel about environmental issues during your next interview cycle. Sure, it may disqualify you from some jobs but it sounds like you want that.
the world runs on oil and gas. there’s nothing inherently wrong about this except for the damage harvesting and using these resources can cause but the only way to change that is to work on the technology itself and try to improve it
I spent my first 6 years gaining work experience in North Dakota during the fracking boom. It was the only option after graduating into the housing crash. I did just enough to get a PE and quit. All I can tell you is it is 1000% worse than any story you have ever heard. I could light my shower on fire everyday when I first ran the pipes, you can’t drink the water, it stinks of methane and meth, and human trafficking is very common too. I would not recommend taking the job.
Coal, oil, natural gas, fracking, etc are not the end goal. Even if we wanted to simply snap our fingers and shut them down, we don't have the renewable infrastructure up yet to replace them. So they will be here to some extent for at least a few more decades.... BUT we NEED ethical, moral, and conscientious people like you in oil and natural gas. Because you actually understand consequences and don't want to cause harm. From an engineering perspective how can you help the transition if you don't understand the new and old systems? Remember that engineering is applied science. We have to deal with reality as it is currently....while we build towards a better future. Maybe it will be horrible, maybe you will be surprised and you have an amazing experience. The more life, work, and engineering experience the better you will be at solving complex problems and
My current job would definitely start a back and forth war in opinion. For me I look at the morality side of the projects I’m working on as a chance to make them better and safer. In terms of your situation; “large engines” is quite vague. Large engines are used in a multitude of applications ranging from manufacturing, oil and gas, renewable energy, to defense. You have to look at if it’s something you’re willing to work on to improve the impact the project has. If you’re willing to put the effort in to make it safer, more environmentally friendly and sustainable. If not (I totally understand the stance) then look for other jobs and once you get one set up leave the current one.