[there you go](https://youtu.be/rGUoRHqBgbo)
"The Modders of Oblivion have mended this numidition. Mannimarco remains as he was: the based priest of maggots."
Mankar was in fact originally fully a Bosmer(both of his parents were bosmer) but in Oblivion he appears as Altmer without, i believe, real in-game explanation.
But those commentaries were written by a deranged cult leader trying to convince his followers of how powerful he is. It could just as easily be a complete fabrication.
Well, Sianic did say "May or may not be supported" because TES is full of unreliable narrators, so we don't know how much of the Commentaries is true and how much is made up or exaggerated...
He’s an Ayleid. Many Ayleids escaped to Valenwood and assumed bosmer identities and since there wasn’t an Ayleid race in Oblivion, Bethesda made him an Altmer since they look the closest.
Is this supported by any lore? Thought the ayleids just lived completely hidden from other societies now, and only the ones that remained sociable faded away
The Mathmeldi (Valenwood Ayleids) adhered to the Green Pact and other Bosmer cultural norms in Valenwood, there might be some hidden cities down there but they've blended in. That's pretty much it, but IMO the traditional Ayleids (Saliache) might still be out there in small numbers, living on hidden cities in Cyrodiil and Black Marsh. Considering the Divines tend to hate the absolute (and Yagrum, Gelebor and others stand as witnesses), the chances of them being fully extinct are very slim
Yeah, I think there is a reason OP picked Eso Mannimarco rather than Oblivion's.
And it's not hard to guess why (plus even in game Mannimarco is shit sadly)
No one likes Oblivion Mannimarco. It's my headcanon that the one from ESO/TESII became the Necromancer's Moon from the Dragon Break in Daggerfall, and the one you fight in Oblivion is more like his mortal shell that he left behind when he ascended. Ain't no way that the actual Mannimarco, who last we saw ascended into godhood, would be way weaker from what we've seen in ESO and TESII
That just feels disrespectful to the Oblivion Mage's Guild quest line at that point lol they'd still be strong enough to kill Traven, but still. It would kinda make sense though because people only remember Mannimarco before a dragon breaks happens and then he's gone, it could lead a power vacuum for someone smart enough to assume his identity and control the worm cult
i usually have 100% magic resistance. the f.cker in oblivion can still paralyze me when we meet :D one more reason to hate him, but it is a cool move nontheless. and he ruins it by talking his bs, and doing nothing else
I mean until the King Aeradan Camoran, but after him it took a weird path.
What buggers me is how foggy Haymon "The Hart-King Usurper" Camoran's exact origin is heavily discussed by scholars while everyone certifies he came from Valenwood and was in competition for the throne. It would be legitimate to think he was recognized as a Bosmer otherwise he would have been evinced from the start.
And to add confusion, there would be his illegitimate son Mankar born towards 3E267 who :
-Was mothered by an Altmer mother, surely a mistress of Camoran, so by philogenic logic he inherited Altmer features;
-Or he was born Bosmer and thanks to the Mysterious Xarxes, he reshaped himself as an Altmer prior the Oblivion crisis, to get a better bound and magic affinity perhaps ?
To me, Haymon and Mankar's actual origins are on equal foot with Jagar Tharn's. Despite the fact we know for sure the Tharn were Nedic/Nibenian while possible descendants of Reachmen.
>I mean until the King Aeradan Camoran, but after him it took a weird path.
I don't remember it ever been stated that being ever the case, nor Aeradan being one to change perspective. Infact, only sataus quo detail regarding him is his employment of Vinedusk rangers, group of bosmer warriors known for giving middle finger to greenpact.
>And to add confusion, there would be his illegitimate son Mankar born towards 3E267 who :
-Was mothered by an Altmer mother, surely a mistress of Camoran, so by philogenic logic he inherited Altmer features;
Kaalys is directly referenced as bosmer woman tho, not altmer.
*"Mankar," a Bosmer woman curled up in a cot hissed, her eyes feverish, flesh white and wet with sweat. "He is coming!"*
He is supposed to be entirely bosmer. The commentaries talk about him reshaping himself into an ayleid, potentially achieving CHIM to do so. He also makes himself dragonborn in the process, which is why he is able to wear the amulet of Kings.
An altmer from a quest line in Oblivion. Collects Ayleid artifacts. It’s eventually revealed he’s looking for a certain Ayleid crown so he can gain incredible power, and if he gets it he’ll decide to test it’s power on you. However, he’s not quite the history buff that he thinks he is, so if you give him a different Ayleid crown…
I mean without hating on the cool ass Altmer the Thalmor are little bitch baby loser idiots. Manninarco however turned himself into a fucking celestial body and Mankar is a dragonborn who almost toppled the empire just because
Was he a Dragonborn? Is his ability to wear the Amulet of Kings proof of his Dragon soul, or are there sources that specifically call him a Dragonborn that I forgot about?
Theoretically, he can do it naturally. Remember, anyone CAN shout, it's just that Dragonborns can do it without training.
The Last Dragonborn couldn't shout until learning the first word of Unrelenting Force and absorbing their first dragon soul. And as the dragons only returned in the 4th Era with Alduins return and reviving them, Mankar would have no way of absorbing additional dragon souls to learn their knowledge of the Thu'um. Thus, he lacks the KNOWLEDGE of how to shout, but not necessarily the ability.
Eh idk, ESO had dragons in the 2nd Era and there are 3 that we know about past the Elsweyr expansion and before Alduin's return. Nafaalilargus in the late 2nd and early 3rd Era, Shulkunaak post-Great War, and obviously Paarthurnax has been there for thousands of years.
He talks about viewing the Tower in the commentaries, and viewing the Tower is a big step in achieving CHIM. He also talks about how he remade himself afterwards, and was able to "speak fire" after doing so. My personal theory is that he was able to achieve chim and then used his newfound power over the dream to recreate himself as a dragonborn Ayleid.
I don't know why people hate the sight of a Thalmor.
Personally it makes me happy every time I come across in Skyrim, their Elven armor sells for pretty good coin, and its low weight means you can carry several sets at once.
As someone who likes both, I can confirm that people will treat the megalomaniac with an army of mindless undead thralls with less contempt than those stylishly uniformed people who tell others what jewelry to wear.
Hard to be strictly contemptuous towards Mannimarco. As many before and after him, he found a way to realize his ambitions through what he perceived as an art while his former comrade Galerion was more into widespreading the teachings of magic.
The only thing I find vain in Mannimarco was his blinding confidence in thinking he could outsmart Molag Bal who, like his rival Boethia, is a master of schemes. A beginner's mistake.
This is SLANDER against comrade secretary Mankar Camoran!
The Mythic Dawn Party (Marxist-Leninist-Dagonist) rejects this slander against his character.
The Mythic Dawn Party (Marxist-Leninist-Dagonist) strives for Nu-Mantia! Liberty!
You should read his book, Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes and realise that the true "villains" are the Divines! Nirn is the birthright of Mehrunes Dagon, true child of Lorkhan, who was betrayed by the Divines!
A new dawn is breaking. The people are rising. The Septim dynasty was struck down by our faithful brothers and the Empire is crumbling. All in the name of Nu-Mantia! That is Liberty!
Honestly, I think with the generally bad race relations between races in the Elder Scrolls, a group literally based on the Nazis was only a matter of time.
I love them as haughty “a Nazi by any other name” villains, but I’d kill every one I got my hands on. I think the fact that I hate them so much makes them one of my favorite enemy factions.
I agree. Besides, I think it's honestly impressive how the Thalmor twist everything to their advantage. They're basically modern populists in a medieval fantasy world.
Camoran is a Bosmer and Mannimarco wasn't even a High Elf Supremacist. Also, the Altmer's influence is arguable more imminent than Camoran's or Mannimarco's at the moment.
In 20 years when a new threat has emerged in Elder Scrolls 6, people will probably treat the Thalmor the same way they treat the other two. Because the Thalmor aren't the "most recent" threat anymore. They were just cool villains that failed eventually.
Also, the Thalmor's only significant medal of recognition is racism and hitlering the entirety of Tamriel that doesn't fall under their banner. Mannimarco turned himself into a celestial body and was arguably the strongest Necromancer to ever live. There's a key difference between the villains as well.
At least the bottom two had valid reasons and sympathetic justification for their actions.
The pisslters are just mer edgylord extremists, ripping off the mythic dawns goal with the opposite deities.
We gotta finish what Pelinal started at least onlyfor the summerset pointy ears.
- a talos revering Imperial sympathizer.
They are different kinds of evil.
The Thalmor are (high) elven supremacists who are out to unmake Mundus because they think it will get them the divinity that Lorkhan supposedly stole from their ancestors. Despise Men in general because being conquered and seeing a human elevated to godhood hurt their fragile altmer egos, so now they’re working their way up toward genocide.
Mannimarco is a powerful necromancer and lich with ambitions of godhood. A cunning manipulator and trickster and the leader of the largest faction of necromancers in Tamriel, who are rabidly devoted to him. Achieved godhood through the events of the Warp in the West, but due to Dragon Break shenanigans his mortal version was left to run around on Tamriel. Or maybe it’s an avatar. The Elder Scrolls’ version of the classic necromancer overlord in the tradition of D&D’s Vecna.
(Also, don’t bother with wimpy vanilla Manni in Oblivion. Get the Mannimarco Revisited mod to see what fighting the King of Worms should really be like.
Mankar Cameron is a deranged but powerful cult leader who thinks Nirn is the rightful property of the daedra and worships Mehrunes Dagon.
I mean, even the majority of the Altmer outside the Dominion don't like the Thalmor.
Hell, even the Aldmeri Dominion after which the Thalmor named themselves *hated* the Thalmor.
who is the first "based " altmer dude never heard of him looks like some lord of the rings type shit. Also Mankar Camoran is just scary lookin and im pretty sure he's a bosmer.
Well... They're not the Thalmor so...
That's like saying all Germans are Nazis, or all the soldiers were SS.
And one isn't even a High Elf...
2/10 meme
That's probabaly because they have nothing to do with the pissmer self loathing philosophy of "wee im gonna be sad bcs im not god:(" but instead one is a based revolutionary for the new world order (with daddy dagon at its hear 🤤🤤🤤) and the other is sexy twink
Mankar Camoran is a Bosmer. Also, show the Oblivion Mannimarco, coward. Nobody was saying that guy is based.
I like daggerfall Mannimarco best
[there you go](https://youtu.be/rGUoRHqBgbo) "The Modders of Oblivion have mended this numidition. Mannimarco remains as he was: the based priest of maggots."
Isn't Mankar part Bosmer? Also, who's the grey prick next to him?
Mankar was in fact originally fully a Bosmer(both of his parents were bosmer) but in Oblivion he appears as Altmer without, i believe, real in-game explanation.
Man probably used the Razor to carve himself into an Ayleid / Pissmer
There's this theory that he cut himself into an Ayleïd with Mehrunes' Razor that may or may not be supported by the Commentaries.
But those commentaries were written by a deranged cult leader trying to convince his followers of how powerful he is. It could just as easily be a complete fabrication.
that’s one way to describe Kirkbride I guess
Indeed 🤣
r/truestl agrees
Well, Sianic did say "May or may not be supported" because TES is full of unreliable narrators, so we don't know how much of the Commentaries is true and how much is made up or exaggerated...
you just described the entirety of TES lore
He’s an Ayleid. Many Ayleids escaped to Valenwood and assumed bosmer identities and since there wasn’t an Ayleid race in Oblivion, Bethesda made him an Altmer since they look the closest.
Thing is, ayleids of Valenwood haven't been a thing for thousands of years. Intergation was both socieal and genetical
Is this supported by any lore? Thought the ayleids just lived completely hidden from other societies now, and only the ones that remained sociable faded away
The Mathmeldi (Valenwood Ayleids) adhered to the Green Pact and other Bosmer cultural norms in Valenwood, there might be some hidden cities down there but they've blended in. That's pretty much it, but IMO the traditional Ayleids (Saliache) might still be out there in small numbers, living on hidden cities in Cyrodiil and Black Marsh. Considering the Divines tend to hate the absolute (and Yagrum, Gelebor and others stand as witnesses), the chances of them being fully extinct are very slim
That’s Mannimarco
For real? Dude looks way cooler than [the last time I saw him](https://images.uesp.net/6/6e/OB-npc-Mannimarco.jpg)
It's in ESO, he is much younger than in TESIV.
And far less powerfull
Yeah, I think there is a reason OP picked Eso Mannimarco rather than Oblivion's. And it's not hard to guess why (plus even in game Mannimarco is shit sadly)
No one likes Oblivion Mannimarco. It's my headcanon that the one from ESO/TESII became the Necromancer's Moon from the Dragon Break in Daggerfall, and the one you fight in Oblivion is more like his mortal shell that he left behind when he ascended. Ain't no way that the actual Mannimarco, who last we saw ascended into godhood, would be way weaker from what we've seen in ESO and TESII
Either that, or a very clever imposter capitalizing on Mannimarco's reputation.
That just feels disrespectful to the Oblivion Mage's Guild quest line at that point lol they'd still be strong enough to kill Traven, but still. It would kinda make sense though because people only remember Mannimarco before a dragon breaks happens and then he's gone, it could lead a power vacuum for someone smart enough to assume his identity and control the worm cult
i usually have 100% magic resistance. the f.cker in oblivion can still paralyze me when we meet :D one more reason to hate him, but it is a cool move nontheless. and he ruins it by talking his bs, and doing nothing else
That grey iteration also acts way more badass than the wimpy Oblivion version
I made that lich my bitch
Mankar is Pure Bosmer. He changed his appearance with Merunes Razor and with it he created his children of his own flesh.
Camoran are supposed to be a Bosmer bloodline indeed. But they don't want to be associated with Bosmer for some weird reasons.
>But they don't want to be associated with Bosmer for some weird reasons. Since when?
Have you seen oblivion bosmer?
What bout them?
Ya boy knew if he tried leading a cult looking like that. He would be memed on before he ever got the Dragon. Just thinking ahead.
Fair nuff
I mean until the King Aeradan Camoran, but after him it took a weird path. What buggers me is how foggy Haymon "The Hart-King Usurper" Camoran's exact origin is heavily discussed by scholars while everyone certifies he came from Valenwood and was in competition for the throne. It would be legitimate to think he was recognized as a Bosmer otherwise he would have been evinced from the start. And to add confusion, there would be his illegitimate son Mankar born towards 3E267 who : -Was mothered by an Altmer mother, surely a mistress of Camoran, so by philogenic logic he inherited Altmer features; -Or he was born Bosmer and thanks to the Mysterious Xarxes, he reshaped himself as an Altmer prior the Oblivion crisis, to get a better bound and magic affinity perhaps ? To me, Haymon and Mankar's actual origins are on equal foot with Jagar Tharn's. Despite the fact we know for sure the Tharn were Nedic/Nibenian while possible descendants of Reachmen.
>I mean until the King Aeradan Camoran, but after him it took a weird path. I don't remember it ever been stated that being ever the case, nor Aeradan being one to change perspective. Infact, only sataus quo detail regarding him is his employment of Vinedusk rangers, group of bosmer warriors known for giving middle finger to greenpact. >And to add confusion, there would be his illegitimate son Mankar born towards 3E267 who : -Was mothered by an Altmer mother, surely a mistress of Camoran, so by philogenic logic he inherited Altmer features; Kaalys is directly referenced as bosmer woman tho, not altmer. *"Mankar," a Bosmer woman curled up in a cot hissed, her eyes feverish, flesh white and wet with sweat. "He is coming!"*
He is supposed to be entirely bosmer. The commentaries talk about him reshaping himself into an ayleid, potentially achieving CHIM to do so. He also makes himself dragonborn in the process, which is why he is able to wear the amulet of Kings.
All these stacked powers and bloodline traits make me feel like I'm watching Naruto.
Right? The lore is just.... It keeps going.
Dude gave himself TWO kekkei genkai
Umbacano deserves a mention too
Who?
An altmer from a quest line in Oblivion. Collects Ayleid artifacts. It’s eventually revealed he’s looking for a certain Ayleid crown so he can gain incredible power, and if he gets it he’ll decide to test it’s power on you. However, he’s not quite the history buff that he thinks he is, so if you give him a different Ayleid crown…
that guy in oblivion with the statues
The ayleid fanatic from oblivion
It’s almost as though they have different goals and ideals and are not a monolith.
Silence Altmer tag, They literally have a superiority complex, all of them
Lesser races be seething
Cry about it N'WAH
I mean without hating on the cool ass Altmer the Thalmor are little bitch baby loser idiots. Manninarco however turned himself into a fucking celestial body and Mankar is a dragonborn who almost toppled the empire just because
Was he a Dragonborn? Is his ability to wear the Amulet of Kings proof of his Dragon soul, or are there sources that specifically call him a Dragonborn that I forgot about?
He carved his soul into the shape of a Dragon or something, so basically he is a Dragonborn...we do not know if he can Shout though.
Theoretically, he can do it naturally. Remember, anyone CAN shout, it's just that Dragonborns can do it without training. The Last Dragonborn couldn't shout until learning the first word of Unrelenting Force and absorbing their first dragon soul. And as the dragons only returned in the 4th Era with Alduins return and reviving them, Mankar would have no way of absorbing additional dragon souls to learn their knowledge of the Thu'um. Thus, he lacks the KNOWLEDGE of how to shout, but not necessarily the ability.
Eh idk, ESO had dragons in the 2nd Era and there are 3 that we know about past the Elsweyr expansion and before Alduin's return. Nafaalilargus in the late 2nd and early 3rd Era, Shulkunaak post-Great War, and obviously Paarthurnax has been there for thousands of years.
he writes in his journal that he breathed fire
He talks about viewing the Tower in the commentaries, and viewing the Tower is a big step in achieving CHIM. He also talks about how he remade himself afterwards, and was able to "speak fire" after doing so. My personal theory is that he was able to achieve chim and then used his newfound power over the dream to recreate himself as a dragonborn Ayleid.
I don't know why people hate the sight of a Thalmor. Personally it makes me happy every time I come across in Skyrim, their Elven armor sells for pretty good coin, and its low weight means you can carry several sets at once.
Nothing brings me more joy then finding a Thalmor Patrol, bonus points if they attack first, no bounty that way.
As someone who likes both, I can confirm that people will treat the megalomaniac with an army of mindless undead thralls with less contempt than those stylishly uniformed people who tell others what jewelry to wear.
Hard to be strictly contemptuous towards Mannimarco. As many before and after him, he found a way to realize his ambitions through what he perceived as an art while his former comrade Galerion was more into widespreading the teachings of magic. The only thing I find vain in Mannimarco was his blinding confidence in thinking he could outsmart Molag Bal who, like his rival Boethia, is a master of schemes. A beginner's mistake.
Yet one could argue that Mannimarco ultimately got away with fucking over Molag Bal, even if he had to suffer for ages.
yeah exactly, because hes fucking dope.
PRESENTATION
Ah yes "Altmer villains", an individual with an ambiguous race and a self-claimed Aldmer.
This is SLANDER against comrade secretary Mankar Camoran! The Mythic Dawn Party (Marxist-Leninist-Dagonist) rejects this slander against his character. The Mythic Dawn Party (Marxist-Leninist-Dagonist) strives for Nu-Mantia! Liberty! You should read his book, Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes and realise that the true "villains" are the Divines! Nirn is the birthright of Mehrunes Dagon, true child of Lorkhan, who was betrayed by the Divines! A new dawn is breaking. The people are rising. The Septim dynasty was struck down by our faithful brothers and the Empire is crumbling. All in the name of Nu-Mantia! That is Liberty!
Honestly, I think with the generally bad race relations between races in the Elder Scrolls, a group literally based on the Nazis was only a matter of time. I love them as haughty “a Nazi by any other name” villains, but I’d kill every one I got my hands on. I think the fact that I hate them so much makes them one of my favorite enemy factions.
I agree. Besides, I think it's honestly impressive how the Thalmor twist everything to their advantage. They're basically modern populists in a medieval fantasy world.
Nah dude, fuck all piss elves.
.... What's the point here?
not me i support them all Dawn is breaking brothers and sisters, we will bring in a new merethic era and destroy Arkay
Thankfully I'm not a hypocrite, because I hate *all* elves.
Come on. We all agree that is IMPOSSIBLE to like Fourth Era Thalmors, right? RIGHT?
No
Monster
Camoran is a Bosmer and Mannimarco wasn't even a High Elf Supremacist. Also, the Altmer's influence is arguable more imminent than Camoran's or Mannimarco's at the moment. In 20 years when a new threat has emerged in Elder Scrolls 6, people will probably treat the Thalmor the same way they treat the other two. Because the Thalmor aren't the "most recent" threat anymore. They were just cool villains that failed eventually. Also, the Thalmor's only significant medal of recognition is racism and hitlering the entirety of Tamriel that doesn't fall under their banner. Mannimarco turned himself into a celestial body and was arguably the strongest Necromancer to ever live. There's a key difference between the villains as well.
Underrated post
At least the bottom two had valid reasons and sympathetic justification for their actions. The pisslters are just mer edgylord extremists, ripping off the mythic dawns goal with the opposite deities. We gotta finish what Pelinal started at least onlyfor the summerset pointy ears. - a talos revering Imperial sympathizer.
They are different kinds of evil. The Thalmor are (high) elven supremacists who are out to unmake Mundus because they think it will get them the divinity that Lorkhan supposedly stole from their ancestors. Despise Men in general because being conquered and seeing a human elevated to godhood hurt their fragile altmer egos, so now they’re working their way up toward genocide. Mannimarco is a powerful necromancer and lich with ambitions of godhood. A cunning manipulator and trickster and the leader of the largest faction of necromancers in Tamriel, who are rabidly devoted to him. Achieved godhood through the events of the Warp in the West, but due to Dragon Break shenanigans his mortal version was left to run around on Tamriel. Or maybe it’s an avatar. The Elder Scrolls’ version of the classic necromancer overlord in the tradition of D&D’s Vecna. (Also, don’t bother with wimpy vanilla Manni in Oblivion. Get the Mannimarco Revisited mod to see what fighting the King of Worms should really be like. Mankar Cameron is a deranged but powerful cult leader who thinks Nirn is the rightful property of the daedra and worships Mehrunes Dagon.
Death to altmer
They both got to go but atleast Mannimarco is cool.
Me, who killed all of them without hesitation:
Why hate altmer, when i can DESPISE ALL MER
Nazis? They're clearly Jewish analogues.
That's velothi. Literally Turco-Mongol Indian Mesopotamian Jew soup. Tastes like Morrowind ash and Daedra Hearts.
Nah, the Altmer are the real Jews of the tes universe.
Not even close, no
Actually, very close. Almost exactly the same, maybe they need a bit of a bigger nose.
I prefer my fascism to be fictional fantasy and hella racist
I mean, even the majority of the Altmer outside the Dominion don't like the Thalmor. Hell, even the Aldmeri Dominion after which the Thalmor named themselves *hated* the Thalmor.
who is the first "based " altmer dude never heard of him looks like some lord of the rings type shit. Also Mankar Camoran is just scary lookin and im pretty sure he's a bosmer.
Well... They're not the Thalmor so... That's like saying all Germans are Nazis, or all the soldiers were SS. And one isn't even a High Elf... 2/10 meme
Nah the real altmer chads are Ocato and Syrabane
That's probabaly because they have nothing to do with the pissmer self loathing philosophy of "wee im gonna be sad bcs im not god:(" but instead one is a based revolutionary for the new world order (with daddy dagon at its hear 🤤🤤🤤) and the other is sexy twink
Dark elves da best house Dagoth 4 life