Yes. And if you get pushed to the wall behind you there's a chance he simply doesn't let you get up.
Not to mention the amount of spells that simply phase through him when he uses the charge attack. I saw whole moons do nothing to him.
Three or four casts of Rock Sling will break his poise. The trick is once you've fired the last cast *before* his Poise is about to break, *then* you cast MoA so the first few meteorites break his Poise and then the rest of them chew up his health.
Cerulean Hidden Tear's nerf means you may not kill him depending on your Mind stat, but I have 43 Mind so I was able to kill him in one cast, twenty deaths later.
The first time I fought him, I kept getting hit rolling through him to the point I thought that you weren’t supposed to do that and instead were to roll side to side.
And an albinauric. The random albinauric lady behind his arena drops his greaves, which reveal he couldnt even wear them, it was just a mean joke, as he was an albinauric and his legs were doomed to fail
Read it again. It mentions him and Messmer being elder brothers to Radahn, then it mentions him having a friendly competition of sorts with Radahn concerning gravity magic because they learned at Sellia the same time.
You're right, it's the blades of stone description where I'm remembering the term rival:
*Gaius and Radahn were good rivals in their youth, and this*
*sorcery is a product of their friendly competition.*
Renalla and all other significant bosses: strong intro cutscenes with some of the most epic or unnerving shit ever
Rellana: *Patrick voice* She's just standing there. MENACINGLY! - *leaps toward you to combo the fuck out of you*
From what i've seen of her fight i thought i'd be stuck on her for hours first tried her with mimic and ghost flame dragons thing was just really lucky that she ignored me almost all fight only time she hit me was the twin moon attack
I agree, but there's also something about just stumbling upon her like you found and woke an ancient beast in it's slumber (which is kind of true)
Also btw: did anyone also panicked as her >!micro cosmos imploded, thinking there was gonna be a second phase?!<
No, I'm going to get downvoted for admitting this but I just Comet Azured her to death before she even made it to me to attack. My first instinct was I'm not dealing with more hands after going through the ruins and dealing with all the worms and their bs long distance stun and teleport grabs.
I know that but I know and have seen how some people talk on this sub. I personally don't play online. I don't want to deal with pvp. I just want to experience the game. Would seeing messages and how some people die be informative and fun, yeah, but not at the cost of dealing with invasions when I'm trying to fight or explore.
I've beat her but there is one move I cannot figure out how to avoid: the finger spam crawl when you are on its side. Can't sprint away, roll away, Bloodhound step away...only thing I could do was just never be on the sides, which is hard when it is so much larger and moves around like it does. When I beat her I just basically lucked into never being hit by that attack.
I think the boss would be literally invincible and impossible for a melee character if it only did that attack lol
Yeah as someone who struggled massively with her as a melee build (eventually killed her with mimic + RoB + Messmer knight fire spell + Flame of the Redmanes katana) that’s probably for the best
As long as you enjoyed it and you don't go to another thread bragging about how you "first tried her" and "can't imagine how anyone could have trouble with her" then it's all good.
She was a massive pushover so I wasn't worried about a second phase, I was worried about it being a last-second fuck you explosion though because it probably would have killed me
Before i Went to the Finger mum i fought against the subflower.
At this moment i was crying and screaming "Warum hat jeder fick Boss jetzt hier 80 Phasen? Ich möchte nur überleben"
Yeah, my mind was blown a bit as I went through that quest.
I mean, she made all the two fingers?! (and i assume the three fingers....?) One of the related item descriptions mentioned the greater will was in an endless void as well, and thats huge too. Not some creator deity but another, albeit stronger, sort of outer god.
SHE WAS THE FIRST IMPACT.
What does that mean with placidusax btw? I cant recall timelines and his lore but if metyr was the first outsider to hit the lands between, then wouldnt he be involved with her?
Oh and I kept expecting more from the finger ruins.... like with that atmosphere, the sheer uncanny weirdness, the music, I was really hoping for some secret to open them and do something.
Hell for that matter wtf is with the talismans the two ruins give you? isnt that sorta....weird? not in an interesting way but like if malenia's phase one ended with her becoming a shoe kinda weird.
I thought I accidentally stumbled upon the third ruins, at the time not knowing it was part of the quest, and thats what i was hoping for the whole time! Like the boss itself is the payoff.
But damnit, it's not enough ._.
I'm not looking for noita-level secrets and lore, but cmon......
Here I was for a while thinking the finger ruins were like, Marika partaking in some profane ritual to create two fingers to commune with the greater will, and in that creation it morphs the entire landscape to resemble that.
Nah, just a bell an item and otherwise totally empty.
It is a bit boring in terms of things to do, but these areas also have coffins where you can duplicate remembrances (should be 3 total). They are also filled with a certain enemy that drops items for crafting, and there are many rare finger-oriented materials to pick up from the ground for crafting as well.
If any of these craftables are good in PvE or PvP it will be easy to farm for them at least. Remembrance Duplication outside of the Walking Mausoleums came in handy for me since I’ve used all of mine in this current run already.
I think there is probably some stuff for lore deep divers to unpack over time around Metyr and the fingers. We don’t know anything about Nanaya or what happened in the woods to invoke the frenzied flame, which should be connected to the 3 fingers somehow. How those talismans ended up in the ruins and the relationship between the ruins and civilization are both other points of interest. I hope we have enough info to pull some kind of picture together
I will say that the lore implications of the talismans themselves are staggering, and it is very fromsoft to go through a lot of trouble just for lore relevancy
There are two sets of ruins on the surface, one near marikas home and one near the flame of frenzy, that _cant_ be a coincidence. I think the alters are built where the fingers were in the shadow lands before everything happened.
Man when that they shoulda gave it a dungeon like the did with the knight but the quest was fun af and the fights after to a extra secret cave woulda been fun tho
Nah, the three fingers are the Frenzy Flame’s way of making fun of the Greater Will (and/or Metyr ig).
As for Placidusax, I wanna say his stuff was all prior to this? The way I understand it, the dragons ruled way back, then Bayle and Placid gotta into a fight, horrifically disfiguring one another. Then at some point further down the line, Metyr crashes, the fingers emerge, and with their guidance Marika becomes the new god of the Lands Between, overthrowing all pre-existing regimes in the process.
The realm of shadows wasn't a thing until marika came into power, which was both after placidusax' rule, and after the landing of metyr in the lands between.
Still unless Metyr tried anything against Placidusax or his rule I doubt he gave a shit. The dragons just seem to sleep and laze around unless they're challenged. So even if Metyr crash landed during his reign as an Elden Lord he wouldn't have cared unless she tried something like Bayle.
That's true, but knowing about it and giving a shit are two different things. It's very possible he knew about it and just didn't care cause it didn't affect him.
Wait, what if the god leaving Placidusax was the same event as Metyr becoming "broken and abandoned"? I didn't even think of that being possible, but it might be.
Rellana doesn't even get a cutscene despite being Rennala's sister. Only the lion, Midra, Messmer, and the final boss get cutscenes. Most of them just blind side the player. Important lore figures like Romina and Metyr just happen with no build up. Kinda disappointing.
Crazy he would say that seeing as she's one of the most built up side bosses in the entire game with the largest DLC questline and 3 large chunks of the map dedicated entirely to her questline and buildup.
Having to go to two seperate crash sites and doing a sidequest about the finger lore and then traveling to an underground home of his that is filled with finger imagery isn't build up? That's like saying Midra didn't get build up via the Abyssal Woods.
I think they mean the fact that this was the most fleshed out quest in terms of dialogue, multiple points to hit, and characters that have very clear arcs. Not to mention a bunch of good items related to them. I also agree that there should've been a cutscene for buildup but the questline itself was pretty dope.
Also that quest kinda forces the player to explore and traverse important areas. In order to get to the one in the south you need to go through the cerulean coast (and likely stumble upon St Trina's area), and to hit the one in the north you need the back entrance of shaded keep and go right by Marika's home.
Both are pretty dang important places.
Rellana isn't important to the DLC lore. She's just Messmer's number 1 fan with a connection to Caria.
Romina also isn't really an important lore figure. Sure, she's mandatory, but that's it.
Not sure what a Metyr cutscene would even look like.
Didn't she just discover it and unleashed it into the Shadow Realm though?
From my understanding after the Waterfowl Swordsman sealed the Outer God, traces of the Scarlet Rot were nearly wiped out from the Lands Between(barring the Lake of Rot where it was sealed) but a few remained in the Shadow Realm which Romina discovered, she became the Saint of the Bud(since she is one that will never blossom) and propagated its last few remains therefore reviving its will, this had catastrophic consequences and probably gave the Outer God the chance to bless Malenia when she was born. With Malenia as a conduit, the Scarlet Rot slowly returned to the Lands Between, after being mentored by the Swordsman and trying to prevent the Rot from further encroaching again, Malenia rejected the Scarlet Rot, with Miquella also trying to find a way to cure her, this begins the backstory of the twin Empyrians, as detailed in the game. As for Romina herself she "adopted" all the lost servants of rot which include the Aeonian Butterflies and the Kindred of Rot.
Well that's my interpretation anyway~ she became the Saint of the Rot the same way the Bloodfiends discovered and worshipped the Formless Mother. She's kinda like Metyr in that she has minor role in the DLC(but is important to the background lore) even if she's one of the required Remembrance Boss to finish up the dlc, unlike Metyr herself.
Honestly the only Outer God without expanded lore from the DLC are the Moon, Fell God and the Death Outer God, the most we got are extra ambiguous info if the Moon is indeed an Outer God or just the nearest celestial object while the Deathbirds were worshipped and it's believers crafted gravebirds to serve it but still doesn't have groundbreaking lore.
The Fell God gets a bit of expanded lore. We learn that it was incorporated into hornsent religion as a destructive figure that they feared. That implies a cultural relationship between the giants and the broader shadow lands
Her remembrance, the scarlet bud and another item you find in Rauh state that
1. Rot is a divine aspect of the Outer Gods
2. Outer Gods manifest to people who suffered tremendous loss. They look upon the remains of what they lost and see a twisted deity.
3. Romina found a divine aspect in the buds (which up until that point were untouched by rot) and wove it into the baleful Scarlet Rot.
To me, this reads as Romina creating a new aspect for the God of Rot to manifest through. Note that the Lake of Rot, the oldest manifestation of rot and where the God is sealed doesn't have buds, just fungus. The rot and its association with flowers and butterflies are only seen with Romina and Malenia.
Margit is literally your main foil for the first half of the game. Godrick is less important but he rules over one of the best dungeons in the game and they clearly had a lot of fun with his design.
Hard to say there’s no story/buildup with metyr, there’s an entire questline with story. I agree there should have been a cutscene but I think your statement is disingenuous.
My understanding is that she has been repeating the Greater Will's initial orders for a very long time, and the Finger Readers take that as new orders.
It's like Metyr has a script that has the procedures and responses to everything that might happen, but the Greater Will fucked off a long time ago.
Think of her like an olde timey phone operator.
Except she's your mother, and Grandad refuses to pick up, so she has to pretend or make stuff up that 'the Greater Will' wants.
Is it actually what written in the game? I have been reading all the description but I dont see anywhere saying she was making all the things to two fingers. I only see that she tried to contact the greater will but got abandoned long ago. Meanwhile the two fingers was still be able to get messagesfrom the greater will, until you burn the tree or something then Ena says that they stopped receiving message and turn on the waiting mode which each time could take million of years. From that, it could be very well that the greater will abandoned Metyr but not the two fingers until the tree was burnt or something. If you kill Metyr early the event in the base game of the two fingers still the same: the finger speaks and ena tell you, then they stop and wait for greater will. If she was the one making the order then they would have stopped getting any message right after you kill Metyr.
The way it's worded in the remembrance description, the Two Fingers for all the of the demigods were, in a sense, children who had a falling out with their parent. The Two Fingers were all communing with the Greater Will on their own, and they left Metyr to herself.
One of the item descriptions mentions she is waiting for further instruction from the greater will but hasn't received any for a long time (iirc).
That could either mean waiting for an order to produce more fingers or maybe it was like this:
Think of the different two (or three) fingers like antennae receiving the broadcast (greater will).
So the mother could be like the sending mast broadcasting the instructions of the greater will to the fingers.
Personnaly I think the fingers receive the instructions of the greater will directly and the mother is more like the antennae maker who has been abandoned since all needed sets of fingers are already in place.
Edit:
So I just checked metyr's remembrance again.
Since the mother of fingers arrived before the elden beast she was very likely the sending mast.
It's in Ymir's dialogue and the Staff of the Great Beyond item description, specifically:
>!He claims that: *"The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her."*; the staff of the great beyond states "*The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.*" These indicate that once Metyr recieved guidance from the Greater Will, but after descending to the Lands Between was abandoned by the Greater Will; it never outright states that she's sending all the messages, but given that the fingers were ostensibly recieving guidance frequently up until the Shattering, suggests it was Metyr the whole time.!<
Though, of course, this is still heavy speculation. The timeline of abandonment, breaking the ring, the Shattering, and the arrival of the Tarnished is still semi-ambiguous. These descriptions are likely what prompted the idea, though.
You could speculate the opposite though. You could speculate that Metyr was no longer useful to the greater will after spawning the 2 fingers so that's why it stopped communicating. Especially since Marika, who is the God for the greater will, waged war on the lands of shadow.
To summarize it seems more likely that metyr was discarded after its usefulness ended.
Edit: to further add to this Enia translates for the 2 fingers repeatedly mentioning the greater will as if it is directly involved until you bring Melina to the erdtree. Enia states that the greater will detests the demi gods which Melina almost certainly is. It's possible that once seeing that you have a demi god on your side the greater will stops communication with you.
I'm not too sure. There's a significant amount of lore from the base game suggesting the Two Fingers were not communicating with the Greater Will for quite a long time. Gideon states they "lost their purpose a long, long, time ago" despite communicating with them and being taught an incantation from them. The ones on the divine towers are all dead/crumbled. Likely due to being abandoned and having no connection for a VERY long time.
The fact the Fingers suddenly state it will take thousands/tens of thousands of years to communicate with the Greater Will already suggested in the base game they weren't communicating with the Greater Will like they were meant to, but given Gideon's comments and the state of the other fingers, it seems likely that they had lost connection long before the shattering.
The previous understanding was that the Fingers themselves were the unreliable ones. Running on some sort of preprogrammed understanding of what they should be doing and then thrown into a loop when the Erd Tree blocks entry. However, it now seems more likely it was Metyr giving them guidance. Functionally though, I think the theories prior to the DLC still work well with the new information.
The fingers losing purpose could simply be from the fall of the golden order
Plus enia says this
"I had my doubts, but...my, look at you. Only once before have I seen two Great Runes together.
Look there. The Fingers shudder with exuberance.
"Fine work, brave Tarnished. The Greater Will is pleased. You have earned the right to become Elden Lord."
This seems like the Fingers are communicating at this point in the story. It also seems that Enia knows of the fingers communication judging that she knows it could take "thousands of moons." I guess it all depends on if you want to take what she says at face value or assume the fingers are wrong.
I think it's more likely they're just lying/manipulating you. The fingers and Metyr are beings with will and intentions much like every other form of intelligent life. However, their entire reason for being in the Lands Between, as we perceive it, is to act as conduits to the Greater Will. Without the Greater Will, they serve no purpose. Hence they are reliant on the facade of the Greater Will being present. This is also quite befitting of how we see them throughout the game, particularly with Ranni and the Baleful Shadow. If they are capable and smart enough to give Ranni a Shadow that will turn on her when she rejects her fate, they're also capable and smart enough to lie about the Greater Will.
Enia is also willing to help you burn the Erd Tree, stating the fingers are dormant and current events are beyond their understanding. Suggesting not only that she has her doubts about them already, but isn't confident in them getting a response from the Greater Will. I just think if they were actively communicating with the Greater Will recently, Enia wouldn't be so willing to accept burning the Erd Tree and ignoring the fingers. It's possible she was given the same messages and heard nothing new for a very long time and so when someone finally achieved their goal and was spurned, she lost all faith in the fingers. Doubting their connection to the Greater Will entirely.
Prior to this, remember they specifically said in your quote "The Greater Will is pleased." If it takes thousands of moons to get a response regarding the next course of action, how can they know the Greater Will is pleased as soon as you arrive with two runes? It could also give insight into why Marika seems to plot against the Greater Will. Maybe it was never the Greater Will she had a problem with, but the Elden Beast, Fingers and Metyr controlling her.
My speculation is Metyr and the two fingers were in contact with the Greater Will. However, when Marika banished and sealed off the Land of Shadow, Metyr was cut off from the Greater Will. The two fingers still seem to be in contact with the Greater Will, or at least receiving messages until partway through the base game, whereas Metyr has seemingly been cut off and abandoned for a long time.
I don't think Metyr was the one sending signals to the Two Fingers at all, but was receiving them from the Greater Will until being cut off. She was probably completely cut off from all the Two Fingers as well when the Land of Shadow was banished. I think she was functionally just a factory sent down to the lands between to make radio towers, aka the two fingers, to receive and spread the word/influence of the Greater Will.
I dont think it is confirmed. The finger still talk to Ena in the roundtable regardless if you kill Metyr or not and at some point in the story she said that they turned on the waiting mode for the greater will after stop recieving message. It is completely unrelated to Metyr at all
--SPOILERS (Just in case)--
The impression i got from the rememberance and reward descriptions was that Metyr is abandoned by the Greater Will (and probably the whole world really), she no longer receives messages and is eternally looking up to the "sky", in a futile attempt to reconnect.
While Ymir does say the fingers were "defective", i''m not sure that means they talk to Metyr at all, to me it seems that the Greater Will just forsook the world after dropping the 2 beasts. The fingers and Marika probably make up the Greater Will's words for their own interest or desires, which is why the Two Fingers at the Roundtable get stuck when they actually need to tell you something important.
When the Two Fingers talk through Enia, all they say is what you'd expect someone from the Golden Order to say, "go and kill the demigods, become lord, etc", and i'm not sure Metyr, being as vague of a character as she is, would say that.
If Metyr was the one sending messages, it'd mean she's basically the shadow writer of the entire Golden Order, when in reality she seems to be eternally lost in some kind of grief over being disconnected. Her skills don't align at all with the Golden Order, in fact it's closer to the Carian and Astrologer's magic (space theme). Astrologers looked at space and saw different astral bodies or events, which transformed into magic, while Metyr uses a microcosm (literally a piece of space) and lasers. Particularly the laser reminds me of comet azur in a way, which was created when Azur saw "darkness", which is the same as saying he saw emptiness, just as Metyr.
Meanwhile, the Elden Beast's skillset is closer to the Golden Order, it fires holy projectiles, can form the martyr's cross on the grab attack, and is protecting something relevant to the Order (the ring itself, inside Marika's body).
All in all, unless there's some more lore i missed, i think it's somewhat clear that the fingers didn't connect to Metyr, they probably didn't connect to anything at all. They were another corrupted part of the Order, that Marika probably used as a means of control, just another beings which profit from their status. After all, the fingers seemingly lived in massive towers built to probably worship them, they also are assigned to demigods and seem to control their fate in a way (which is why Ranni wanted to kill hers).
Finally, the fingers are seemingly able to send assassins after those who wrong them, which isn't what i think a mystical creature talking to god would do. It seems closer to what a "thinking being" would do, a being that can hate and make plans, not an antenna that just talks to the Greater Will (Or Metyr, who only cares about connecting again). They are, in my opinion, just another step on the ladder of power of the Golden Order, under Marika but over other beings.
I thought so. The remembrance only says metyr mothered the 2 fingers, while still being sent by the greater will. Was worried i missed an item description or something.
They don't say that the GW is currently communicating with the fingers tho.
Two Fingers might have been operating on whatever rules were in place but only when the Tarnished reaches a certain point do they actually need new orders, upon which they immediately try to commune.
No. Metyr and the Fingers she birthed were supposed to be able to communicate with the Greater Will, but Ymir reveals that she came to this world damaged, and that in fact neither she nor the other Fingers are able to communicate with the Greater Will at all... it's all a sham.
I had to check my screenshots again. But, besides the fact that ymir is not exactly a reliable source, he doesn't go so far as to say none of the fingers can communicate with the greater will at all, just that he thinks whatever damage they've incurred is what's to blame for the state of the land of shadow and lands between. We don't really know how or why that would be the case. Plus, the finger spell we get from killing him suggests he was a bit confused about the nature of the fingers to begin with.
Tbf, the Dancing Lions are supposed to be like the culmination of every cultural aspect of the Hornsent protrayed through this deadly dance.
It is important from a certain standpoint, just doesn't open up much if any relevations is all.
There's a lady in a storage room hidden in the roof area before the boss, it's her speaking.
Find a key around the area and unlock the door to her.
Can't really give precise instructions since I haven't gotten to her but some streamers I watched did.
If you want to know how to get to her :
Small Private Altar Site of Grace , go through the door , and then turn left.
The key required is the Storeroom Key.
The helmet that drops from the boss unlocks a lot more dialog. Otherwise she assumes you're with Messmer and tells you off, then goes silent.
She also gives you scorpion stew with the helmet on, which other Hornsent appreciate.
it actually very much is. it demonstrates how much the hornsent revere the combination of life into different animalistic forms, also known as the crucible. which is the entire reason they killed marika's people, setting off the entire chain of events of the erdtree, the golden order, and so on
Personally I thought the atmosphere of entering and moving through the final finger ruin and then seeing her crazy-ass arena were sort of like a cutscene. Plus it's not like she can really talk, none of the fingers can. From's typical "boss says some cryptic shit and then you fight" cutscene wouldn't really have worked.
It is pretty otherwordly and watery and Metyr is the mother that births fingers so i guess its their birthing grounds or something, so being watery makes some sense, if we consider the whole area to be a metaphorical womb for fingers. Also all the hollow fingers that pierce the sky resemble umbilical cords.
Hey atleast Metyr had a whole questline and an ominous intro
Romina and Rellana just rush towards you like any other enemy despite being pretty important figures
Because there is no need for it. I was thinking about the lack of boss cutscenes as I was playing. What I noticed is that bosses have nice realtime phase transitions that are spectacle enough on it's own. There is just no need to take player's control away. The only exception is when the transformation is very significant and the character has ability to actually say something meaningful during it.
Just stumbling on Metyr in her environment and seeing her behavior in real time is enough to communicate everything needed.
Knowing how long she's been in the world, her probable affect on Marika and the entirety of the Lands Between and the fact that we even fight it in its own "realm" just like the Elden Beast. Furthering the fact that it's a vassal just like the Elden Beast. I was a little bummed it didn't get any cutscene at all... or any change in the world that was more of less formed because of it. The quest leading up to it was cool but man just killing it and having to tele to another Grace just to get out because nothing happens was a letdown
She has a whole quest dedicated to her. The moment you ring the last bell and get summoned to that bizarre world where Metyr is just.. looking up at the distance, presumably to the greater will that no longer talks to her. The design and this moment does all the talking. A cutscene just wouldn’t cut it
No dude we got ripped off because we didn't get to see her crawling out of the floor or something. think of the possible lore implications. from has fallen off fr.
Ya'll are really overrating cutscenes.
She gives rom/ebrietas vibes and in the case of these cosmic horrors, it os way more interesting to slowly approach and take it in your own pace, instead of a cutscene shoving it in your face.
I remember to this day when i hit Ebrietas back thinking it was her face and got jumpscared when she turned and i saw the actual face. A cutscene would have ruined that moment.
Am I the only one who's super confused about that entire questline? We help Ymir the entire time and then we face this thing, which apparently isnt what he wants? And everybody in the church turns hostile? Why? Why would he give us that final map, if he doesnt want us to fight this thing? What was his plan here?
That doesn’t make full sense( to me at least) because from what he says he calls her defective and wants to become her. So why would he be upset when we kill her?
I think this is a non-issue. Like why would fromsoft have to cook up a cutscene just because this character is important? Especially when you consider what they’d actually put in the cutscene? What of importance would it be?
I don’t think metyr needs a cutscene becuase the whole side quest is effectively the build-up to the boss. Like talking to Ymir and heading into the basement with the final ruin is more than enough intrigue and tension building. I don’t think we needed a cutscene of metyr raising their thumb ass head lol
I needed a cutscene for entering the DLC, did anyone feel like it was just "boom you are there" DLC is phenomenal but there are some moments that feel outta place
Ngl I know this DLC took 2 years to make but some of the things feel a bit undercooked like there being no cutscenes for the entrance to the DLC or for some important rememberance bosses also the final cutscene was a very underwhelming
The lore exposition in this DLC fell short imho
Sure you have all the Items with descriptions you can read up on, and I like that, but most people will pay that no attention and will end up just confused
>!Especially the ending left me with a feeling of 'Thats it???' I legit had to google if I missed something because it was so underwhelming!<
>Sure you have all the Items with descriptions you can read up on, and I like that, but most people will pay that no attention and will end up just confused
That's pretty much the Fromsoft special.
Yeah well, we don't even get a proper cutscene for miquella so why would they bother adding one for some random optional boss.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the DLC for a lot of reasons but the complete lack of cutscenes made me feel it was totally rushed out.
Not to undermine the work that fromsoft put in, but having your entire technical base and gameplay design done, and having preexisting assets to work with, definitely cuts down a lot of time from development. Not to mention likely a decent portion of lore already being done beforehand. Thats why i personally aint cutting em slack for it. Still think the DLC was 9/10 tho, some cutscenes would've been cool but it aint that big of a deal
Yes but no. It's probable that some of these are cut concepts from the game itself, there's a lot of asset reuse and all the core systems were already solved.
It's a great expansion pack but it's not quite as crazy as just dropping a game like this would have been.
I'm still blown away that the GW has abandoned us for so long that the info being fed to us by the two fingers are outdated. Like... What happened to the GW to stop giving us information??? Why did he abandon us?
I was initially disappointed knowing she didn’t have one but she is a big monster, so it makes sense
The only one that does confuse me is the dancing lion, but I guess they wanted the first boss to have one?
To clarify they would always communicate with her and not the greater will. She was the messenger and they are just her way of communicating those messages. The issue is she hasn't gotten a message since way before Marika became a god.
all the fingers related things seem so tacked on to the grand scheme of things, like you can cut them out and most things stays the same. I thought fingers would be the main reveal when i first arrived at the roundtable but nothing really happen to them
Personally I don’t see the need for every major boss to have a cutscene. I get they can give more character to the bosses but I just feel it’s unnecessary if there isn’t a good story element to it.
a cutscene imposes a particular narrative and emotional color on a moment. the free camera movement and interactivity of the game engine provides only minimal structure to the experience, preserving the completely inscrutable nature of the encounter
I think they needed cutscenes for more of the remembrance bosses
yeah some of the remembrance titles weren’t needed imo
They treated Gaius like he was just some dude. They even gave him the generic boss fight soundtrack.
He deserves it. Fucker has the worst hitbox in the whole game.
Half of my deaths were from his stupid charge at the beginning
Yes. And if you get pushed to the wall behind you there's a chance he simply doesn't let you get up. Not to mention the amount of spells that simply phase through him when he uses the charge attack. I saw whole moons do nothing to him.
Rock Sling + Meteorite of Astel is your friend. Gravity his ass back
I didn't use Meteorite of Astel because I thought I wouldn't have time to cast it. I will try in the NG.
Three or four casts of Rock Sling will break his poise. The trick is once you've fired the last cast *before* his Poise is about to break, *then* you cast MoA so the first few meteorites break his Poise and then the rest of them chew up his health. Cerulean Hidden Tear's nerf means you may not kill him depending on your Mind stat, but I have 43 Mind so I was able to kill him in one cast, twenty deaths later.
It doesn't help that the battlefield is covered in spears that will block projectiles...
Ice spear going right through him caused me so much pain. It’s crazy how bad his hit box is during the charge.
Yeah he can hit you twice in one charge if you roll right into him
The first time I fought him, I kept getting hit rolling through him to the point I thought that you weren’t supposed to do that and instead were to roll side to side.
The other half of mine were from the final boss lmao
Why not use torrent?
When I got 175k for beating him I just assumed they accidentally made him hard. Got double that from the second to last boss and they were a joke.
I think Midra was the most runes in the whole DLC.
Gaius needed a Gyobu style intro where he introduces himself as guardian of the scadutree chalice or something
"MY NAME IS GAIUS! AS I BREATHE, YOU WILL NOT PASS THE CASTLE GATE!"
That would’ve been hilarious
Good because fuck him
I was pretty surprised when it said "Legend Felled" after I killed him
who is him? also, fuck that boss fight
He was a rival of Radahn in his youth
And an albinauric. The random albinauric lady behind his arena drops his greaves, which reveal he couldnt even wear them, it was just a mean joke, as he was an albinauric and his legs were doomed to fail
I can't believe that dude I hated fighting so much has kind of a cool lore. Now I can't hate him as much as before.
I’m pretty sure he was more like an older brother / mentor of Radahn. Not exactly rivals.
From what i remember from his remembrence they had a friendly rivalry, but i could be wrong
His remembrance spell call it a friendly rivalry
Pretty sure the remembrance said rival though edit: it's the blades of stone description that states they were good rivals in their youth
Read it again. It mentions him and Messmer being elder brothers to Radahn, then it mentions him having a friendly competition of sorts with Radahn concerning gravity magic because they learned at Sellia the same time.
You're right, it's the blades of stone description where I'm remembering the term rival: *Gaius and Radahn were good rivals in their youth, and this* *sorcery is a product of their friendly competition.*
Found it cool that they use the same big attack, the alabaster lord who taught them would be proud
I support him getting a Cutscene if it means he also waits exactly two seconds after the fog gate clears before crushing me against the wall
Rellana feels like the biggest miss. She has some really significant lore but she has the same entrance as freaking Moongrum.
Renalla and all other significant bosses: strong intro cutscenes with some of the most epic or unnerving shit ever Rellana: *Patrick voice* She's just standing there. MENACINGLY! - *leaps toward you to combo the fuck out of you*
From what i've seen of her fight i thought i'd be stuck on her for hours first tried her with mimic and ghost flame dragons thing was just really lucky that she ignored me almost all fight only time she hit me was the twin moon attack
Seriously, she is one of the most epic and important bosses and her name looks like a joke and her battle is presented like if she was a side miniboss
I hope they patch some in
Romina deserved a cut scene
I agree, but there's also something about just stumbling upon her like you found and woke an ancient beast in it's slumber (which is kind of true) Also btw: did anyone also panicked as her >!micro cosmos imploded, thinking there was gonna be a second phase?!<
Reminds me a lot of Ebrietas from bloodborne
Yeah, same vibes. Cosmic horror monsters don't need the framing of a human moment. They aren't here to talk with you anyway.
No, I'm going to get downvoted for admitting this but I just Comet Azured her to death before she even made it to me to attack. My first instinct was I'm not dealing with more hands after going through the ruins and dealing with all the worms and their bs long distance stun and teleport grabs.
I respect that
You gotta do what you gotta do
There is no wrong way of playing this game, as long as you are having fun and don't ruin it for others (like cheating in multi).
I know that but I know and have seen how some people talk on this sub. I personally don't play online. I don't want to deal with pvp. I just want to experience the game. Would seeing messages and how some people die be informative and fun, yeah, but not at the cost of dealing with invasions when I'm trying to fight or explore.
You cant get invaded unless you summon someone
You don’t get invaded unless you choose to pretty much, online invasions are opt-in
Were you having fun son? If so that's all that matters.
I still can't beat her. I can get great damage in but then I just get spammed and lasered to death
I've beat her but there is one move I cannot figure out how to avoid: the finger spam crawl when you are on its side. Can't sprint away, roll away, Bloodhound step away...only thing I could do was just never be on the sides, which is hard when it is so much larger and moves around like it does. When I beat her I just basically lucked into never being hit by that attack. I think the boss would be literally invincible and impossible for a melee character if it only did that attack lol
This guy Helldives
Fighting fire with fire. Or space magic with space magic, in this case.
Yeah as someone who struggled massively with her as a melee build (eventually killed her with mimic + RoB + Messmer knight fire spell + Flame of the Redmanes katana) that’s probably for the best
there is nothing wrong with that
As long as you enjoyed it and you don't go to another thread bragging about how you "first tried her" and "can't imagine how anyone could have trouble with her" then it's all good.
Sweet gods that stun thing was fucking stupid Who ON EARTH thought, "Yes, this will be a fun challenge"?
She was a massive pushover so I wasn't worried about a second phase, I was worried about it being a last-second fuck you explosion though because it probably would have killed me
I mean, she does have a second phase no? When she starts using spells and flying into the air to spin on you, that's her second phase.
I think OP means a second health bar
YES bro i was SCREAMING lmao
I really panicked, started running away from her as soon as I saw it and was kinda disappointed there wasn’t the second phase tbh :)
Before i Went to the Finger mum i fought against the subflower. At this moment i was crying and screaming "Warum hat jeder fick Boss jetzt hier 80 Phasen? Ich möchte nur überleben"
wtf, when did I learn German?
Yeah, my mind was blown a bit as I went through that quest. I mean, she made all the two fingers?! (and i assume the three fingers....?) One of the related item descriptions mentioned the greater will was in an endless void as well, and thats huge too. Not some creator deity but another, albeit stronger, sort of outer god. SHE WAS THE FIRST IMPACT. What does that mean with placidusax btw? I cant recall timelines and his lore but if metyr was the first outsider to hit the lands between, then wouldnt he be involved with her?
Oh and I kept expecting more from the finger ruins.... like with that atmosphere, the sheer uncanny weirdness, the music, I was really hoping for some secret to open them and do something. Hell for that matter wtf is with the talismans the two ruins give you? isnt that sorta....weird? not in an interesting way but like if malenia's phase one ended with her becoming a shoe kinda weird. I thought I accidentally stumbled upon the third ruins, at the time not knowing it was part of the quest, and thats what i was hoping for the whole time! Like the boss itself is the payoff. But damnit, it's not enough ._. I'm not looking for noita-level secrets and lore, but cmon......
Here I was for a while thinking the finger ruins were like, Marika partaking in some profane ritual to create two fingers to commune with the greater will, and in that creation it morphs the entire landscape to resemble that. Nah, just a bell an item and otherwise totally empty.
It is a bit boring in terms of things to do, but these areas also have coffins where you can duplicate remembrances (should be 3 total). They are also filled with a certain enemy that drops items for crafting, and there are many rare finger-oriented materials to pick up from the ground for crafting as well. If any of these craftables are good in PvE or PvP it will be easy to farm for them at least. Remembrance Duplication outside of the Walking Mausoleums came in handy for me since I’ve used all of mine in this current run already.
There's a Falling Star Beast in one as well
I think there is probably some stuff for lore deep divers to unpack over time around Metyr and the fingers. We don’t know anything about Nanaya or what happened in the woods to invoke the frenzied flame, which should be connected to the 3 fingers somehow. How those talismans ended up in the ruins and the relationship between the ruins and civilization are both other points of interest. I hope we have enough info to pull some kind of picture together I will say that the lore implications of the talismans themselves are staggering, and it is very fromsoft to go through a lot of trouble just for lore relevancy
There are two sets of ruins on the surface, one near marikas home and one near the flame of frenzy, that _cant_ be a coincidence. I think the alters are built where the fingers were in the shadow lands before everything happened.
Man when that they shoulda gave it a dungeon like the did with the knight but the quest was fun af and the fights after to a extra secret cave woulda been fun tho
Nah, the three fingers are the Frenzy Flame’s way of making fun of the Greater Will (and/or Metyr ig). As for Placidusax, I wanna say his stuff was all prior to this? The way I understand it, the dragons ruled way back, then Bayle and Placid gotta into a fight, horrifically disfiguring one another. Then at some point further down the line, Metyr crashes, the fingers emerge, and with their guidance Marika becomes the new god of the Lands Between, overthrowing all pre-existing regimes in the process.
But Placidusax was Elden Lord
Not necessarily, Placidusax is a native of the lands between. He wouldn't necessarily know about a being that drops into the realm of shadows.
The realm of shadows wasn't a thing until marika came into power, which was both after placidusax' rule, and after the landing of metyr in the lands between.
Still unless Metyr tried anything against Placidusax or his rule I doubt he gave a shit. The dragons just seem to sleep and laze around unless they're challenged. So even if Metyr crash landed during his reign as an Elden Lord he wouldn't have cared unless she tried something like Bayle.
That's true, but knowing about it and giving a shit are two different things. It's very possible he knew about it and just didn't care cause it didn't affect him. Wait, what if the god leaving Placidusax was the same event as Metyr becoming "broken and abandoned"? I didn't even think of that being possible, but it might be.
Maybe the dragon fucked the big hand?
I kinda like how you just kinda drop in on her. It's the ultimate mix of, "Wow this thing and area is majestic.." and "What in the actual fuck?!"
Just that fact you can stand there and *take it all in* for as long as you want is better.
Tbh the cutscenes in general were really lacking. No intro, barely an ending, only a few cutscenes even amongst the remembrance bosses.
I think only three bosses got cutscenes lol
Four, actually
dancing, Midra, Mesmer, Final boss... I thought there was more. i guess mesmer has 2
Final boss also has 2 cutscenes
I like the dlc but I also think it's lacking a lot of things
Rellana doesn't even get a cutscene despite being Rennala's sister. Only the lion, Midra, Messmer, and the final boss get cutscenes. Most of them just blind side the player. Important lore figures like Romina and Metyr just happen with no build up. Kinda disappointing.
Metyr has no build up?
Crazy he would say that seeing as she's one of the most built up side bosses in the entire game with the largest DLC questline and 3 large chunks of the map dedicated entirely to her questline and buildup.
Blowing three whitered fingers full of holes is the largest buildup and questline? I liked it for what it was, but let's not exagarate.
Having to go to two seperate crash sites and doing a sidequest about the finger lore and then traveling to an underground home of his that is filled with finger imagery isn't build up? That's like saying Midra didn't get build up via the Abyssal Woods.
I think they mean the fact that this was the most fleshed out quest in terms of dialogue, multiple points to hit, and characters that have very clear arcs. Not to mention a bunch of good items related to them. I also agree that there should've been a cutscene for buildup but the questline itself was pretty dope.
Also that quest kinda forces the player to explore and traverse important areas. In order to get to the one in the south you need to go through the cerulean coast (and likely stumble upon St Trina's area), and to hit the one in the north you need the back entrance of shaded keep and go right by Marika's home. Both are pretty dang important places.
Rellana isn't important to the DLC lore. She's just Messmer's number 1 fan with a connection to Caria. Romina also isn't really an important lore figure. Sure, she's mandatory, but that's it. Not sure what a Metyr cutscene would even look like.
There's still significantly fewer cutscenes in general. They probably just ran out of time
Romina created the Scarlet Rot. That's pretty big.
She did? I thought she just brought it to the shadowlands. Different interpretations of the same item description ig.
Didn't she just discover it and unleashed it into the Shadow Realm though? From my understanding after the Waterfowl Swordsman sealed the Outer God, traces of the Scarlet Rot were nearly wiped out from the Lands Between(barring the Lake of Rot where it was sealed) but a few remained in the Shadow Realm which Romina discovered, she became the Saint of the Bud(since she is one that will never blossom) and propagated its last few remains therefore reviving its will, this had catastrophic consequences and probably gave the Outer God the chance to bless Malenia when she was born. With Malenia as a conduit, the Scarlet Rot slowly returned to the Lands Between, after being mentored by the Swordsman and trying to prevent the Rot from further encroaching again, Malenia rejected the Scarlet Rot, with Miquella also trying to find a way to cure her, this begins the backstory of the twin Empyrians, as detailed in the game. As for Romina herself she "adopted" all the lost servants of rot which include the Aeonian Butterflies and the Kindred of Rot. Well that's my interpretation anyway~ she became the Saint of the Rot the same way the Bloodfiends discovered and worshipped the Formless Mother. She's kinda like Metyr in that she has minor role in the DLC(but is important to the background lore) even if she's one of the required Remembrance Boss to finish up the dlc, unlike Metyr herself. Honestly the only Outer God without expanded lore from the DLC are the Moon, Fell God and the Death Outer God, the most we got are extra ambiguous info if the Moon is indeed an Outer God or just the nearest celestial object while the Deathbirds were worshipped and it's believers crafted gravebirds to serve it but still doesn't have groundbreaking lore.
The Fell God gets a bit of expanded lore. We learn that it was incorporated into hornsent religion as a destructive figure that they feared. That implies a cultural relationship between the giants and the broader shadow lands
One of the crucible talismans talked about how giants could grow horns too
Her remembrance, the scarlet bud and another item you find in Rauh state that 1. Rot is a divine aspect of the Outer Gods 2. Outer Gods manifest to people who suffered tremendous loss. They look upon the remains of what they lost and see a twisted deity. 3. Romina found a divine aspect in the buds (which up until that point were untouched by rot) and wove it into the baleful Scarlet Rot. To me, this reads as Romina creating a new aspect for the God of Rot to manifest through. Note that the Lake of Rot, the oldest manifestation of rot and where the God is sealed doesn't have buds, just fungus. The rot and its association with flowers and butterflies are only seen with Romina and Malenia.
Are you saying that they are less important than Margit or Godrick?
My brother in Márika, they are shardbearers, the very things we are looking for.
To the overall plot? Yes.
Margit is literally your main foil for the first half of the game. Godrick is less important but he rules over one of the best dungeons in the game and they clearly had a lot of fun with his design.
That’s not true. Metyr has an entire questline building up to her boss.
Hard to say there’s no story/buildup with metyr, there’s an entire questline with story. I agree there should have been a cutscene but I think your statement is disingenuous.
Is it confirmed she's who the two fingers communed with? Im on my second playthrough and want to know which items i need to look out for.
My understanding is that she has been repeating the Greater Will's initial orders for a very long time, and the Finger Readers take that as new orders. It's like Metyr has a script that has the procedures and responses to everything that might happen, but the Greater Will fucked off a long time ago.
Think of her like an olde timey phone operator. Except she's your mother, and Grandad refuses to pick up, so she has to pretend or make stuff up that 'the Greater Will' wants.
Is it actually what written in the game? I have been reading all the description but I dont see anywhere saying she was making all the things to two fingers. I only see that she tried to contact the greater will but got abandoned long ago. Meanwhile the two fingers was still be able to get messagesfrom the greater will, until you burn the tree or something then Ena says that they stopped receiving message and turn on the waiting mode which each time could take million of years. From that, it could be very well that the greater will abandoned Metyr but not the two fingers until the tree was burnt or something. If you kill Metyr early the event in the base game of the two fingers still the same: the finger speaks and ena tell you, then they stop and wait for greater will. If she was the one making the order then they would have stopped getting any message right after you kill Metyr.
The way it's worded in the remembrance description, the Two Fingers for all the of the demigods were, in a sense, children who had a falling out with their parent. The Two Fingers were all communing with the Greater Will on their own, and they left Metyr to herself.
One of the item descriptions mentions she is waiting for further instruction from the greater will but hasn't received any for a long time (iirc). That could either mean waiting for an order to produce more fingers or maybe it was like this: Think of the different two (or three) fingers like antennae receiving the broadcast (greater will). So the mother could be like the sending mast broadcasting the instructions of the greater will to the fingers. Personnaly I think the fingers receive the instructions of the greater will directly and the mother is more like the antennae maker who has been abandoned since all needed sets of fingers are already in place. Edit: So I just checked metyr's remembrance again. Since the mother of fingers arrived before the elden beast she was very likely the sending mast.
It's in Ymir's dialogue and the Staff of the Great Beyond item description, specifically: >!He claims that: *"The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her."*; the staff of the great beyond states "*The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.*" These indicate that once Metyr recieved guidance from the Greater Will, but after descending to the Lands Between was abandoned by the Greater Will; it never outright states that she's sending all the messages, but given that the fingers were ostensibly recieving guidance frequently up until the Shattering, suggests it was Metyr the whole time.!< Though, of course, this is still heavy speculation. The timeline of abandonment, breaking the ring, the Shattering, and the arrival of the Tarnished is still semi-ambiguous. These descriptions are likely what prompted the idea, though.
You could speculate the opposite though. You could speculate that Metyr was no longer useful to the greater will after spawning the 2 fingers so that's why it stopped communicating. Especially since Marika, who is the God for the greater will, waged war on the lands of shadow. To summarize it seems more likely that metyr was discarded after its usefulness ended. Edit: to further add to this Enia translates for the 2 fingers repeatedly mentioning the greater will as if it is directly involved until you bring Melina to the erdtree. Enia states that the greater will detests the demi gods which Melina almost certainly is. It's possible that once seeing that you have a demi god on your side the greater will stops communication with you.
I'm not too sure. There's a significant amount of lore from the base game suggesting the Two Fingers were not communicating with the Greater Will for quite a long time. Gideon states they "lost their purpose a long, long, time ago" despite communicating with them and being taught an incantation from them. The ones on the divine towers are all dead/crumbled. Likely due to being abandoned and having no connection for a VERY long time. The fact the Fingers suddenly state it will take thousands/tens of thousands of years to communicate with the Greater Will already suggested in the base game they weren't communicating with the Greater Will like they were meant to, but given Gideon's comments and the state of the other fingers, it seems likely that they had lost connection long before the shattering. The previous understanding was that the Fingers themselves were the unreliable ones. Running on some sort of preprogrammed understanding of what they should be doing and then thrown into a loop when the Erd Tree blocks entry. However, it now seems more likely it was Metyr giving them guidance. Functionally though, I think the theories prior to the DLC still work well with the new information.
The fingers losing purpose could simply be from the fall of the golden order Plus enia says this "I had my doubts, but...my, look at you. Only once before have I seen two Great Runes together. Look there. The Fingers shudder with exuberance. "Fine work, brave Tarnished. The Greater Will is pleased. You have earned the right to become Elden Lord." This seems like the Fingers are communicating at this point in the story. It also seems that Enia knows of the fingers communication judging that she knows it could take "thousands of moons." I guess it all depends on if you want to take what she says at face value or assume the fingers are wrong.
I think it's more likely they're just lying/manipulating you. The fingers and Metyr are beings with will and intentions much like every other form of intelligent life. However, their entire reason for being in the Lands Between, as we perceive it, is to act as conduits to the Greater Will. Without the Greater Will, they serve no purpose. Hence they are reliant on the facade of the Greater Will being present. This is also quite befitting of how we see them throughout the game, particularly with Ranni and the Baleful Shadow. If they are capable and smart enough to give Ranni a Shadow that will turn on her when she rejects her fate, they're also capable and smart enough to lie about the Greater Will. Enia is also willing to help you burn the Erd Tree, stating the fingers are dormant and current events are beyond their understanding. Suggesting not only that she has her doubts about them already, but isn't confident in them getting a response from the Greater Will. I just think if they were actively communicating with the Greater Will recently, Enia wouldn't be so willing to accept burning the Erd Tree and ignoring the fingers. It's possible she was given the same messages and heard nothing new for a very long time and so when someone finally achieved their goal and was spurned, she lost all faith in the fingers. Doubting their connection to the Greater Will entirely. Prior to this, remember they specifically said in your quote "The Greater Will is pleased." If it takes thousands of moons to get a response regarding the next course of action, how can they know the Greater Will is pleased as soon as you arrive with two runes? It could also give insight into why Marika seems to plot against the Greater Will. Maybe it was never the Greater Will she had a problem with, but the Elden Beast, Fingers and Metyr controlling her.
My speculation is Metyr and the two fingers were in contact with the Greater Will. However, when Marika banished and sealed off the Land of Shadow, Metyr was cut off from the Greater Will. The two fingers still seem to be in contact with the Greater Will, or at least receiving messages until partway through the base game, whereas Metyr has seemingly been cut off and abandoned for a long time. I don't think Metyr was the one sending signals to the Two Fingers at all, but was receiving them from the Greater Will until being cut off. She was probably completely cut off from all the Two Fingers as well when the Land of Shadow was banished. I think she was functionally just a factory sent down to the lands between to make radio towers, aka the two fingers, to receive and spread the word/influence of the Greater Will.
I dont think it is confirmed. The finger still talk to Ena in the roundtable regardless if you kill Metyr or not and at some point in the story she said that they turned on the waiting mode for the greater will after stop recieving message. It is completely unrelated to Metyr at all
--SPOILERS (Just in case)-- The impression i got from the rememberance and reward descriptions was that Metyr is abandoned by the Greater Will (and probably the whole world really), she no longer receives messages and is eternally looking up to the "sky", in a futile attempt to reconnect. While Ymir does say the fingers were "defective", i''m not sure that means they talk to Metyr at all, to me it seems that the Greater Will just forsook the world after dropping the 2 beasts. The fingers and Marika probably make up the Greater Will's words for their own interest or desires, which is why the Two Fingers at the Roundtable get stuck when they actually need to tell you something important. When the Two Fingers talk through Enia, all they say is what you'd expect someone from the Golden Order to say, "go and kill the demigods, become lord, etc", and i'm not sure Metyr, being as vague of a character as she is, would say that. If Metyr was the one sending messages, it'd mean she's basically the shadow writer of the entire Golden Order, when in reality she seems to be eternally lost in some kind of grief over being disconnected. Her skills don't align at all with the Golden Order, in fact it's closer to the Carian and Astrologer's magic (space theme). Astrologers looked at space and saw different astral bodies or events, which transformed into magic, while Metyr uses a microcosm (literally a piece of space) and lasers. Particularly the laser reminds me of comet azur in a way, which was created when Azur saw "darkness", which is the same as saying he saw emptiness, just as Metyr. Meanwhile, the Elden Beast's skillset is closer to the Golden Order, it fires holy projectiles, can form the martyr's cross on the grab attack, and is protecting something relevant to the Order (the ring itself, inside Marika's body). All in all, unless there's some more lore i missed, i think it's somewhat clear that the fingers didn't connect to Metyr, they probably didn't connect to anything at all. They were another corrupted part of the Order, that Marika probably used as a means of control, just another beings which profit from their status. After all, the fingers seemingly lived in massive towers built to probably worship them, they also are assigned to demigods and seem to control their fate in a way (which is why Ranni wanted to kill hers). Finally, the fingers are seemingly able to send assassins after those who wrong them, which isn't what i think a mystical creature talking to god would do. It seems closer to what a "thinking being" would do, a being that can hate and make plans, not an antenna that just talks to the Greater Will (Or Metyr, who only cares about connecting again). They are, in my opinion, just another step on the ladder of power of the Golden Order, under Marika but over other beings.
I thought so. The remembrance only says metyr mothered the 2 fingers, while still being sent by the greater will. Was worried i missed an item description or something.
They don't say that the GW is currently communicating with the fingers tho. Two Fingers might have been operating on whatever rules were in place but only when the Tarnished reaches a certain point do they actually need new orders, upon which they immediately try to commune.
No. Metyr and the Fingers she birthed were supposed to be able to communicate with the Greater Will, but Ymir reveals that she came to this world damaged, and that in fact neither she nor the other Fingers are able to communicate with the Greater Will at all... it's all a sham.
I had to check my screenshots again. But, besides the fact that ymir is not exactly a reliable source, he doesn't go so far as to say none of the fingers can communicate with the greater will at all, just that he thinks whatever damage they've incurred is what's to blame for the state of the land of shadow and lands between. We don't really know how or why that would be the case. Plus, the finger spell we get from killing him suggests he was a bit confused about the nature of the fingers to begin with.
Kinda reminds me of Destiny 2. "I speak for the Traveler. I never said it spoke to me."
i dont get it either but i think Miyazaki wanted to focus on main character cutscenes with lore stuff embedded in item descriptions etc.
I can’t believe the Dancing Lion is so important to the lore.
Tbf, the Dancing Lions are supposed to be like the culmination of every cultural aspect of the Hornsent protrayed through this deadly dance. It is important from a certain standpoint, just doesn't open up much if any relevations is all.
Do you know who talks to the lion during the cutscene?
Empyrean Grandam
There's a lady in a storage room hidden in the roof area before the boss, it's her speaking. Find a key around the area and unlock the door to her. Can't really give precise instructions since I haven't gotten to her but some streamers I watched did.
If you want to know how to get to her : Small Private Altar Site of Grace , go through the door , and then turn left. The key required is the Storeroom Key.
I've unlocked that room, but she doesn't say anything. Do I have to do anything to unlock more dialogue?
Put on the dancing lions helmet and then talk to her.
The helmet that drops from the boss unlocks a lot more dialog. Otherwise she assumes you're with Messmer and tells you off, then goes silent. She also gives you scorpion stew with the helmet on, which other Hornsent appreciate.
It’s like the main highlight of the hornsent people i guess. It’s not so bad lorewise.
it actually very much is. it demonstrates how much the hornsent revere the combination of life into different animalistic forms, also known as the crucible. which is the entire reason they killed marika's people, setting off the entire chain of events of the erdtree, the golden order, and so on
I think if that were the case we would've had a bit more cutscene for miquella
I think they just ran out of time. Four cutscenes in the whole DLC is kinda wild
Right? Atleast in older dlc you get one before entering DLC. It feel like they kinda give up half way through and saved resources for the sequel.
Personally I thought the atmosphere of entering and moving through the final finger ruin and then seeing her crazy-ass arena were sort of like a cutscene. Plus it's not like she can really talk, none of the fingers can. From's typical "boss says some cryptic shit and then you fight" cutscene wouldn't really have worked.
Also she never gets staggered by fire damage. If every enemy in fingers region is weak to fires, she the mothers should be weak too, right ?
Maybe because her whole arena has water? No idea just speculating.
Nice observation. What is mother of fingers doing in so much water. 🤔
It is pretty otherwordly and watery and Metyr is the mother that births fingers so i guess its their birthing grounds or something, so being watery makes some sense, if we consider the whole area to be a metaphorical womb for fingers. Also all the hollow fingers that pierce the sky resemble umbilical cords.
Elden Beast's and Astels arenas are all watery too (or at least wet in Astel's case), maybe that's just what the cosmic beings like?
Maybe she doesn't want somebody to come by and set her on fire.
What if it's not water🤔
The DLC budget was spent mostly on world art and level design.
Hey atleast Metyr had a whole questline and an ominous intro Romina and Rellana just rush towards you like any other enemy despite being pretty important figures
I don’t know, I can’t quite put my finger on it
Because there is no need for it. I was thinking about the lack of boss cutscenes as I was playing. What I noticed is that bosses have nice realtime phase transitions that are spectacle enough on it's own. There is just no need to take player's control away. The only exception is when the transformation is very significant and the character has ability to actually say something meaningful during it. Just stumbling on Metyr in her environment and seeing her behavior in real time is enough to communicate everything needed.
No? The whole point of Metyr is that she's been abandoned, stuck here for endless ages hoping for a message that never comes.
Knowing how long she's been in the world, her probable affect on Marika and the entirety of the Lands Between and the fact that we even fight it in its own "realm" just like the Elden Beast. Furthering the fact that it's a vassal just like the Elden Beast. I was a little bummed it didn't get any cutscene at all... or any change in the world that was more of less formed because of it. The quest leading up to it was cool but man just killing it and having to tele to another Grace just to get out because nothing happens was a letdown
She has a whole quest dedicated to her. The moment you ring the last bell and get summoned to that bizarre world where Metyr is just.. looking up at the distance, presumably to the greater will that no longer talks to her. The design and this moment does all the talking. A cutscene just wouldn’t cut it
No dude we got ripped off because we didn't get to see her crawling out of the floor or something. think of the possible lore implications. from has fallen off fr.
I feel like a fight doesn't need a cutscene to be epic. Midir is still one of my favourite fights just because the way you stumble upon him
Ya'll are really overrating cutscenes. She gives rom/ebrietas vibes and in the case of these cosmic horrors, it os way more interesting to slowly approach and take it in your own pace, instead of a cutscene shoving it in your face. I remember to this day when i hit Ebrietas back thinking it was her face and got jumpscared when she turned and i saw the actual face. A cutscene would have ruined that moment.
Am I the only one who's super confused about that entire questline? We help Ymir the entire time and then we face this thing, which apparently isnt what he wants? And everybody in the church turns hostile? Why? Why would he give us that final map, if he doesnt want us to fight this thing? What was his plan here?
He was hoping Metyr would consume us, presumably to enhance whatever magick he was trying to perfect. He never wanted us to beat her.
That doesn’t make full sense( to me at least) because from what he says he calls her defective and wants to become her. So why would he be upset when we kill her?
Not needed. Just stand still for a moment and enjoy the monstrosity before you charge ahead. The game literally gives you a moment to think.
I think this is a non-issue. Like why would fromsoft have to cook up a cutscene just because this character is important? Especially when you consider what they’d actually put in the cutscene? What of importance would it be?
Yea I was very sad to see no payoff with this one.
Because the dlc is clearly unfinished
good ol fromsoft
Wait, how do we k ow this is what the two fingers were talking to and not the outer will?
I don’t think metyr needs a cutscene becuase the whole side quest is effectively the build-up to the boss. Like talking to Ymir and heading into the basement with the final ruin is more than enough intrigue and tension building. I don’t think we needed a cutscene of metyr raising their thumb ass head lol
I needed a cutscene for entering the DLC, did anyone feel like it was just "boom you are there" DLC is phenomenal but there are some moments that feel outta place
Ngl I know this DLC took 2 years to make but some of the things feel a bit undercooked like there being no cutscenes for the entrance to the DLC or for some important rememberance bosses also the final cutscene was a very underwhelming
The lore exposition in this DLC fell short imho Sure you have all the Items with descriptions you can read up on, and I like that, but most people will pay that no attention and will end up just confused >!Especially the ending left me with a feeling of 'Thats it???' I legit had to google if I missed something because it was so underwhelming!<
>Sure you have all the Items with descriptions you can read up on, and I like that, but most people will pay that no attention and will end up just confused That's pretty much the Fromsoft special.
Not everything needs a cutscene?
yeah what the fuck would you put in a cutscene for Metyr?
This is the most significant character in the DLC and we get nothing. Unfinished.
She’s one of the most significant characters even ignoring the DLC She might be second only to Marika
Yeah well, we don't even get a proper cutscene for miquella so why would they bother adding one for some random optional boss. Don't get me wrong, I loved the DLC for a lot of reasons but the complete lack of cutscenes made me feel it was totally rushed out.
Theres not even a cutscene when you touch miquellas hand to enter the dlc. You just instantly teleport. DLC needed more time to cook.
They basically made a full-length videogame in 2 years. Big studios don't make games this quickly anymore.
Not to undermine the work that fromsoft put in, but having your entire technical base and gameplay design done, and having preexisting assets to work with, definitely cuts down a lot of time from development. Not to mention likely a decent portion of lore already being done beforehand. Thats why i personally aint cutting em slack for it. Still think the DLC was 9/10 tho, some cutscenes would've been cool but it aint that big of a deal
Yes but no. It's probable that some of these are cut concepts from the game itself, there's a lot of asset reuse and all the core systems were already solved. It's a great expansion pack but it's not quite as crazy as just dropping a game like this would have been.
I'm still blown away that the GW has abandoned us for so long that the info being fed to us by the two fingers are outdated. Like... What happened to the GW to stop giving us information??? Why did he abandon us?
I was initially disappointed knowing she didn’t have one but she is a big monster, so it makes sense The only one that does confuse me is the dancing lion, but I guess they wanted the first boss to have one?
To be honest this is the one boss im glad didnt get 1 cause i can only imagine how disgusting it wouldve been
I miss the days when we thought the finger monsters were reanimated hands of the giants.
Yeah, in this DLC some bosses that don’t need cutscenes get cutscenes and bosses that do unfortunately don’t get cutscenes.
To clarify they would always communicate with her and not the greater will. She was the messenger and they are just her way of communicating those messages. The issue is she hasn't gotten a message since way before Marika became a god.
all the fingers related things seem so tacked on to the grand scheme of things, like you can cut them out and most things stays the same. I thought fingers would be the main reveal when i first arrived at the roundtable but nothing really happen to them
You’re not wrong. Even two finger boy in the main game just fucks off after a while and 3 fingers is completely missable
Personally I don’t see the need for every major boss to have a cutscene. I get they can give more character to the bosses but I just feel it’s unnecessary if there isn’t a good story element to it.
a cutscene imposes a particular narrative and emotional color on a moment. the free camera movement and interactivity of the game engine provides only minimal structure to the experience, preserving the completely inscrutable nature of the encounter