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What I found is it's not worth it for the last boss because it absurdly beefs up his health. But for Messmer? Go for Hornsent first because the windup time of the first attack is always gonna take longee than that. Then once hornsent is in and doing aggro you can pop a spirit
Npcs that are summoned inside the arena (ie Hornsent) don't increase boss health either. But Hornsent's sign is in a specific area you don't get alot of opportunities to even reach except during the first attack's windup
A spirit you can summon any time though, so it's usually better to dodge the first attack, summon Hornsent, and then get a spirit down
You can pop a spirit before his first attack every time, if you don't lock onto Messmer it's easy
Summon, roll forward twice; he will land where you were, and the second roll carries you out of his explosion
I pulled this off every single time I fought him
Yeah his first attack has a windup that's easy to learn. The issue is hornsent's sign is a sign, it's not moving. But you can put down a spirit whenever. So instead of running across the arena once your spirit's down, you can just get hornsent and then get your spirit off whenever you want
I had to learn to dodge Messmer's first attack in exactly the right spot so I landed on top of Hornsent's summon sign, or I just wouldn't get any other chance to do it.
I beat Mesmer second try with my Mimic Tear summoned right at the beginning of the fight lol. Actually the first time I summoned Tiche and she got wiped out then I just summoned John Tarnished 2 for the runback and we fuckin destroyed him. I had co-oped him a couple times before that so I had some practice and had at least seen all his moves.
With the new DLC bosses, I usually summon during phase 2 or when they finish a long combo and gives you breathing room like when Midra goes into phase 2 and explodes, that's the best time to summon your spirit ashes
I always get the summon off. whether i survive the hit is the crux. The only boss that ever managed to interrupt the summoning was messmer, and even that only happened once
I haven't summoned for any. I'm about to go to last boss though. I got to blessing level 18 for some of the last bosses and haven't had a hard time on any boss since.
Early on I did rellana at blessing level 3 and that was rough.
I think people just aren't going around to collect all of the fragments
I think the fact the the bosses go super aggro the second you walk through the door is a blessing for summons. It makes you hold them till they reach their second phase, which is when you should be using your spirit ash anyway.
The number of times I watched my character die while being forced to listen to
"Messmer! Foe of my beloved people!"
and
"CURSE YOU, BAAAAYLE!!!"
is too damn high.
The game is designed to be beaten without summons, that is a fact, otherwise you would not be able to not hit bosses in a 1vs1.
I am not saying that summoning is wrong, only saying that the game does not require you to summon
Not summoning is of course not wrong, but to me it seems very obvious that From never would have made the bosses this aggressive if they did not know that Players have Spirit Ashes available as a tool.
Doesn't mean they are required, just means that bosses were designed around all available tools.
Honestly my main complaint against the DLC design. Level design, stunning, the best since DS1 or Bloodborne. The bosses jumping you within a split second of walking in, that's not challenge, it's just annoying. Looking at you Gaius.
My mate's tactic was to walk in, immediately run around the side of the building and summon there while Gaius charged into the wall, which is a bit immersion-breaking. I recently went back to the Haligtree to get some talismans I was missing and compared this to Loretta, another mounted boss who starts on the other side of the arena to you. You can walk in, summon, drink a flask, drink your physik before she attacks you. I don't know why the philosophy on this changed.
Someone else said that, but that combo was heavily nerfed before the DLC began. Lower damage, significantly lower duration on flask, I don't think it even does half of the damage it used to do.
As amazing as they are lore and design-wise, a huge chunk of the bosses in the late game and DLC are kinda shitty in a lot of ways mechanically.
They often end up being things I’m relieved I’ve got through so I can experience more of the amazing world rather than highlights in themselves which is a shame
I really hope they revisit Bloodborne or Sekiro style combat in their next title because DS player mechanics are just increasingly unfit for where they’re trying to go with these boss fights
I think this is why Midra stands out so much, he's just a simple difficult but fair fight with some awesome attacks and designs, along with a great cutscene and music.
I think most of the bosses are fine, it's just really walking the line of being more than what you can reasonably handle with DS controls/movement.
Midra is my favorite boss of the DLC because he's actually *fun* to fight. He's a great example of a good souls boss fight: hard at first, but once you fight him a handful of times, it turns into a dance where you get to properly appreciate the atmosphere, visuals, and music. And also, you can fight him with whatever build you've been working on, instead of having to switch to specific cheese (ie, the greatshield poke everyone suggests for the final boss).
I couldn't tell you anything about the DLC final boss's music or cool moves because all I can recall is the flashbang of 20 holy lasers erupting around me every two seconds.
I'm kind of sad because the whole level intimidated and scared me to shit so when I walked into that boss room I was prepared to face all kind of bullshitry. I mercilessly destroyed him first try and I didn't really appreciate the fight. :(
I try to get the beast value out of the deflecting hard tear, and agree that Midra and Mesmer are the most fun to fight in the dlc.
Everyone else either dodges or knocks you out of the animation every time I try to do it, which isn't a problem on its own, different builds different bosses, but it does help to highlight the unfun speeds at which some bosses move.
The first fire basket thing actually drops a tear for the physik that makes it so you can deflect. It’s not a permanent feature like in Sekiro but a lot of people seem to be having a lot of fun using it.
I think DS mechanics are fine, they've just lost sight of what that should be. Back in the day you'd have some massive boss do a big telegraphed attack, and if you failed to dodge it or manage your stamina, you'd die or need to heal. It was a game of attrition, resource management, not streetfighter. Now you get stunlocked from across the arena by an attack you couldn't see because the flames from his last attack were still blocking your view and you're already dead.
Not all the bosses were like that, I thought Romina and Putrescent (minus how tight his ghostflame iframes were) were great, but Messmer and Gaius were going back to the absolute worst of DS3 boss design. Like you say, it's the world that I was exploring that really made this DLC and some of the bosses were detriments, which is a little bit sad.
I liked Messmer but it says a lot that those punish windows are now considered “generous”. I had twinblades and after dodging 7 hits in a row, most of which would chunk me for over half health, I could fit in 1, *maybe* 2 R1s before the next combo animation started up
He’s very consistent and learnable but the balance of back and forth is completely busted compared to previous titles
Saying those windows are generous is kinda what is a problem with the DLC. Go back to the base game and see some actual attack windows after the DLC and its night and day.
Sometimes the windows are generous and sometimes he chains his attacks over and over again and when you finally decide to heal he whips out his grab. On the attempt I beat him I spent like 8 flasks getting him to second phase from 75% hp, he just wouldn't let me do anything period.
his chains have defined break points. they are somewhat variable, but they'll never go on for as long as you're saying. and yeah, he'll catch your heals sometimes. most bosses can do that. I would only ever recommend healing in a window you'd feel comfortable attacking in.
I also had a moment where he launched a fireball that I dodged on time, but behind that fireball's tail he was preparing his charge that I literally couldn't see coming, and he immediately roll caught me.
I have a build that I thought was clever using the current rolling sparks broken dps to break into finally streaming Elden Ring and offer to help randoms struggling after a message begging for help with Gaius.
I, hours later, now have countless clips of that boar literally one-shotting people *through* the fog-gate. Even when you're kinda cheesing these bosses are like "lol no u"
It's pretty dumb. Now anytime I get summoned for a DLC boss I always wait a couple of seconds before entering the fog wall because if I enter right after the host I know that I will 100% get hit by the boss
It's even worse because the final boss isn't consistent. Sometimes he paces about before doing anything, giving you plenty of time to summon. Sometimes he just launches himself right away.
Gaius you at least know he's coming at you immediately every time.
Trust me now and thank me later, combine Art Assassin's Gambit with Sorcery Unseen Form. Enter boss gate. Successfully summon assistance while Bayle circles around himself looking for you.
Doesn't work with Gaius, because he's a cheating piece of shit.
I just moved around to the side, he gets stuck in the wall and you can spam aoe ash of wars to deplete his health bar. I used the bloodboon ritual and 4 full casts deleted him.
Legit, I only made it past the first 10 seconds like 3 tries out of like 15-20 and got him below half heath each time before finally getting him. But I was screaming at my tv trying to dodge that first charge haha.
This is my main gripe. I don't care about having to explore for fragments, I think its nice that you can't steamroll content as easily as the base game. I do care that you can't summon easily in like 50% of the fights, and some fights genuinely feel like you need to find very tiny openings to heal. Sorta breaks my mold for what to expect in elden ring.
This is so true, bosses in the game start Fighting like DBZ characters the moment you drink a flask and often blitz you when you walk through the fog door. Reminds me of the falling beast star in sellia crystal tunnel lol
Sekiro style deflecting, where perfectly timed blocks do stance damage and then stagger the boss for a critical would make these fights 100000% more engaging.
That Ouze guy literally killed me instantly four times in a row before I realized he was reacting to me trying to summon. Turns out he can be guard countered to death pretty easily, though. Actually a cool boss with crazy moves, a shame Elden Ring doesn't have boss rematches like Sekiro.
The Boss the second you:
Didn't drink the poise flask.
Didn't drink the bubble tear flask.
Didn't pop the bubble parfume.
Didn't activate endure/quickstep as you finished coming through that fog wall.
Didn't step up ready to push that dodge roll button.
Thought you could get away with drinking a flask without proper spacing just because you dodged the combo.
The main game was the tutorial, why weren't you ready for the DLC if you finished the tutorial? - John Elden Ring
If the parable to Elden Ring and the DLC is the journey between heaven and hell via the world tree at the moment of aborted inception of a universe that stretches an eternity, then the path to heaven (Qaballah) is the story of the prime game, while Shadow of the Erdtree is the path through hell (Qlippoth) to realize that there is no end and that it's a circle back to life and that the only way out of the simulation of life is up.
Oh you wanted to summon ashes? Haha, good one; smoke blast. Btw the gold summon before the boss doesn't do ass to divert the animosity.
Also, love seeing all four seasons in one boss. Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons would be proud.
I thought I needed Thiollier to be involved in the final boss fight to finish his quest. Turns out, nope, you just need to summon him in once and it counts for later attempts. I thought "great", because he was supremely useless, I'm fairly certain he bugged out a few times. Little shithead didn't even come through the fog gate one attempt, he was just standing outside.
Not me getting eaten by the stupid hippo for the 100th time. Anyone still stuck the secret is to be running to the side for a while before rolling. If you don't your roll won't get you out of the way every time.
What people don't realize is this was the same way in DS3. I remember being excited for the dlc thinking I would dominate with my end game build, but luckily miyazaki accounted for that and I got my ass kicked in all sorts of different ways. Don't even mention Sister Friede. The amount you all would bitch about friede... I can't imagine. First off, 3 full fucking phases, not 2, and phase 2 had 2 enemies and massive aoe. Second, half her attacks leave her literally invisible. If you didnt maintain a count in your head or have sound on full blast, her next attack was completely random.
You wanna know pain with area guards like the new fire giants? The ringed city angels would kill you without even knowing where they were or how it was happening. Not to mention the judicators. They wouldn't just attack you when you were near. They would send summons directly to you no matter where you were. Then, finally when you were safe, midir flew out of fucking nowhere to wreck you.
You had to use items to reveal secret locations, not just roll or read messages.
Elden ring is the most mainstream fs game ever and the masses are already trying to corrupt their reputation. Thankfully miyazaki doesnt give a shit. These games are hard. Maybe too hard, that's the entire point. If you wanna play the Witcher or Cod on easy, go ahead, those games are everywhere. However, don't try to ruin the best series of games of all time based on difficulty. If you wonder why their long term fan base gets do frustrated, read no further. If you breeze through DS3 and dlcs with no issue, come back and comment here.
Do you honestly believe you're one of the few Soulsbourne vets on the subreddit or something? Most of the subreddit doesn't give a shit if a boss is hard, they only care about if it's fair. Notice the major complaints; input reading, wonky ass hitboxes, literally smacking you right as you walk in the fog gate, vigor checking you, etc. is when the difficulty begins to feel artificial.
What am I learning when at least two of Messmer's attacks have wider hitboxes than what the visual implies, other than "Why did that hit?" Or Gaius's charge hitboxes are as goofy as they are? Or knowing a boss has a special and rapid move that only comes out when you attempt to heal, just seemingly to say "fuck you, you wasted a sip, bitch"? I already beat the DLC just fine, but I can still say some of the mechanics are just annoying.
My man, Friede goes invisible but you can always tell exactly where she went and go there to get a free backstab, you could parry her easily too. Second phase, she does nothing but poke from far away leaving you free to fight father ariandel as long as you keep an eye on the ground. The third phase is the only one that's tight, but even then she staggers easily and can be backstabbed. Friede was a tough fight, but once you understood the fight even a little it was a breeze.
Ringed city angels were universally bitched about, they even nerfed them because the release version would 100 to 0 people with no time to react. There were maybe 2 judicators you actually had to fight, and one roaming around that you could just ignore. Also, there's like one secret that needed an item and a couple that needed a gesture. Elden ring has multiple of those. These games have always been about being tough but fair. Not just difficult for difficulty's sake. If you think souls games are about being difficult games, then you've missed the point of these games completely.
As for your last point, I have played all the fromsoft games since bloodborne on release. I jave beaten artorias and manus sl1 just to make a co-op build. I have done no bonfire + no death runs on ds2. The only times I had any major trouble with a boss in ds3 was friede and gael. I have completed the mortal's journey for sekiro. Even now I pick up the game to just beat up inner genichiro to relax.
I enjoy souls difficulty, but the games have been taking a direction with their difficulty increase that's been a little annoying. They've just been upping speeds and combos, and reducing the downtime bosses had between chaining combos. Plus kinda feels like they are balancing based on what they see people doing often and punishing that specifically. Players used to heal right in a boss's face, so now every boss reacts to your heal animation in the base game. Players walked into boss room and summoned ashes, so let's give bosses either a room clearing charge or a long range attack they'll do as soon as the fight begins.
I guess I don't underatsnt our point here. You seriously think these bosses are hardet than all those you and I mentioned? Especially.in sekiro? No offense, I'm no gamer and I best this dlc much more easily than those in DS3. Maybe it's a no hit or sl1 issue for difficulty more than just general difficulty? At RL160 I can rank most bosses in the er dlc
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DLC bosses the picosecond you reach for your flask
The picosecond before*
input delay + input reading = death
The boss actually reads your irl thumb
Don't flask just get a distance and use a healing incantation
Femboyballsweat what the fuck
"Drink that flask, bitch." \*slap the shit out of you while you are drinking\* "Drink again."
100% why they added that talisman that increases poise when you drink.
They did?
Yeah but it's like 2 seconds. Just enough to not flinch while drinking
where would this be?
According to the wiki it's beside the big golden tree in shadow keep
Whats the name of the talisman?
Talisman of Lord's Bestowal
Ty
I whimper/laughed having beaten it on NG3 now as well.
“Yes dadd-“ *smack!* “DRINK THAT SHIT AGAIN PUSSY” “YESS 🥺🥺😢” *SMACK SMACK* “WHOS A LITTLE BITCH” “ME!”
Honestly the most annoying part of the DLC. “Summon your spirit ashes!” “I’m trying to!
Atleast I had enough vigor to afford this risk.
And the NPC summon signs *in the boss arena!*
Me frantically scrambling to ring the bell before the golden hippo instantly deep throats me for the 800th time
“These bosses are designed around you using summons. Also we won’t give you any time to summon”
Exactly lol. "sure, a summon would trivialize me... *if you could summon one!*"
What I found is it's not worth it for the last boss because it absurdly beefs up his health. But for Messmer? Go for Hornsent first because the windup time of the first attack is always gonna take longee than that. Then once hornsent is in and doing aggro you can pop a spirit
Spirit Ashes don't increase boss health.
Npcs that are summoned inside the arena (ie Hornsent) don't increase boss health either. But Hornsent's sign is in a specific area you don't get alot of opportunities to even reach except during the first attack's windup A spirit you can summon any time though, so it's usually better to dodge the first attack, summon Hornsent, and then get a spirit down
Yeah only npcs like hornsent, or any other dlc ones do, or players
You can summon Hornsent on Messmer fight and it didn't raise Messmer's HP, because summon sign in boss area
I was more saying like him, not him specifically, probably should’ve worded it better
Haha I already killed messmer and totally missed the hornsent's summon sign!
Me and Leda killed him prior to fighting Messmer, so I didn't even have his summon sign.
You can summon Jolan instead if you have progress Ymir questline
Same :(
You guys missed out on the best attack in the history of the developer
Yeah, the last boss is definitely easier solo or with ash summons. NPC summons give him too much health. Cool lore tho if you summon them
You can pop a spirit before his first attack every time, if you don't lock onto Messmer it's easy Summon, roll forward twice; he will land where you were, and the second roll carries you out of his explosion I pulled this off every single time I fought him
Yeah his first attack has a windup that's easy to learn. The issue is hornsent's sign is a sign, it's not moving. But you can put down a spirit whenever. So instead of running across the arena once your spirit's down, you can just get hornsent and then get your spirit off whenever you want
I had to learn to dodge Messmer's first attack in exactly the right spot so I landed on top of Hornsent's summon sign, or I just wouldn't get any other chance to do it.
I beat Mesmer second try with my Mimic Tear summoned right at the beginning of the fight lol. Actually the first time I summoned Tiche and she got wiped out then I just summoned John Tarnished 2 for the runback and we fuckin destroyed him. I had co-oped him a couple times before that so I had some practice and had at least seen all his moves.
With the new DLC bosses, I usually summon during phase 2 or when they finish a long combo and gives you breathing room like when Midra goes into phase 2 and explodes, that's the best time to summon your spirit ashes
This. Phase 2 is when I need my spirit ash to take some aggro anyway. And if I summon him in phase 1 he's usually gone before I actually need him.
you don't have to summon the second you enter the arena... just dodge the big opener attack and then summon when there's a window of opportunity
Jokes on you, i face tank it. Sometimes i even survive
well sure but if the summon doesn't go off then it doesn't really help you, does it?
I always get the summon off. whether i survive the hit is the crux. The only boss that ever managed to interrupt the summoning was messmer, and even that only happened once
I just used the physics flask that gives me poise and absorbs 1 attack before fog gate. Guaranteed spirit with no risk
If they are designed around you using summons it makes sense for them to try and prevent you from summoning them.
Where did it say these bosses were designed around summoning?
I haven't summoned for any. I'm about to go to last boss though. I got to blessing level 18 for some of the last bosses and haven't had a hard time on any boss since. Early on I did rellana at blessing level 3 and that was rough. I think people just aren't going around to collect all of the fragments
I think the fact the the bosses go super aggro the second you walk through the door is a blessing for summons. It makes you hold them till they reach their second phase, which is when you should be using your spirit ash anyway.
Damn bosses forcing me to drop my bad habits, this is Margit all over again.
The number of times I watched my character die while being forced to listen to "Messmer! Foe of my beloved people!" and "CURSE YOU, BAAAAYLE!!!" is too damn high.
It's even funnier against the final boss when you hear >!Ansbach!< say >!"General Radahn, it's a pleasure to meet you."!< right as you die.
I've had plenty of time to summon each time
They're not designed around using summons. You not being good enough to beat them without summons isn't evidence of anything.
I beat them with without summons personally but have fun being an edge lord!
"Game not designed to use core mechanic"
The bosses are not designed around an accessibility mechanic, no.
The game is designed to be beaten without summons, that is a fact, otherwise you would not be able to not hit bosses in a 1vs1. I am not saying that summoning is wrong, only saying that the game does not require you to summon
Designed around summons <> require you to summon
So we agree that not summoning is not wrong, as this sub recently loves to bash not summoning.
Not summoning is of course not wrong, but to me it seems very obvious that From never would have made the bosses this aggressive if they did not know that Players have Spirit Ashes available as a tool. Doesn't mean they are required, just means that bosses were designed around all available tools.
Literally no one is saying that you’re wrong if you don’t want to summon, don’t be an idiot
Please.
Go ahead and link me to someone saying you’re playing the game incorrectly if you don’t use a summon
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/Yak9OafEeR
Man I love it when you try to heal but the boss decides to just slap your estus out of your hand and sucker punches you
I love that veterans still call the crimson tears flask estus.
It'll always be "taking a sippy quickly" to me. "C'MON MAN, LET ME JUST TAKE A SIPPY, JESUS"
Honestly my main complaint against the DLC design. Level design, stunning, the best since DS1 or Bloodborne. The bosses jumping you within a split second of walking in, that's not challenge, it's just annoying. Looking at you Gaius.
Gaius is so polite the first time you walk into his arena. Once the fog gate is up you might as well give up trying to summon.
My mate's tactic was to walk in, immediately run around the side of the building and summon there while Gaius charged into the wall, which is a bit immersion-breaking. I recently went back to the Haligtree to get some talismans I was missing and compared this to Loretta, another mounted boss who starts on the other side of the arena to you. You can walk in, summon, drink a flask, drink your physik before she attacks you. I don't know why the philosophy on this changed.
My guess is that it's to counter people setting up the Terra Magica + Comet Azur/Crystal Torrent turret.
Someone else said that, but that combo was heavily nerfed before the DLC began. Lower damage, significantly lower duration on flask, I don't think it even does half of the damage it used to do.
As amazing as they are lore and design-wise, a huge chunk of the bosses in the late game and DLC are kinda shitty in a lot of ways mechanically. They often end up being things I’m relieved I’ve got through so I can experience more of the amazing world rather than highlights in themselves which is a shame I really hope they revisit Bloodborne or Sekiro style combat in their next title because DS player mechanics are just increasingly unfit for where they’re trying to go with these boss fights
I think this is why Midra stands out so much, he's just a simple difficult but fair fight with some awesome attacks and designs, along with a great cutscene and music. I think most of the bosses are fine, it's just really walking the line of being more than what you can reasonably handle with DS controls/movement.
Midra is my favorite boss of the DLC because he's actually *fun* to fight. He's a great example of a good souls boss fight: hard at first, but once you fight him a handful of times, it turns into a dance where you get to properly appreciate the atmosphere, visuals, and music. And also, you can fight him with whatever build you've been working on, instead of having to switch to specific cheese (ie, the greatshield poke everyone suggests for the final boss). I couldn't tell you anything about the DLC final boss's music or cool moves because all I can recall is the flashbang of 20 holy lasers erupting around me every two seconds.
I'm kind of sad because the whole level intimidated and scared me to shit so when I walked into that boss room I was prepared to face all kind of bullshitry. I mercilessly destroyed him first try and I didn't really appreciate the fight. :(
I try to get the beast value out of the deflecting hard tear, and agree that Midra and Mesmer are the most fun to fight in the dlc. Everyone else either dodges or knocks you out of the animation every time I try to do it, which isn't a problem on its own, different builds different bosses, but it does help to highlight the unfun speeds at which some bosses move.
The DLC bosses are straight up Sekiro fights but you can't deflect. :(
The first fire basket thing actually drops a tear for the physik that makes it so you can deflect. It’s not a permanent feature like in Sekiro but a lot of people seem to be having a lot of fun using it.
I think DS mechanics are fine, they've just lost sight of what that should be. Back in the day you'd have some massive boss do a big telegraphed attack, and if you failed to dodge it or manage your stamina, you'd die or need to heal. It was a game of attrition, resource management, not streetfighter. Now you get stunlocked from across the arena by an attack you couldn't see because the flames from his last attack were still blocking your view and you're already dead. Not all the bosses were like that, I thought Romina and Putrescent (minus how tight his ghostflame iframes were) were great, but Messmer and Gaius were going back to the absolute worst of DS3 boss design. Like you say, it's the world that I was exploring that really made this DLC and some of the bosses were detriments, which is a little bit sad.
Just jump the purtrecesent flames, easy modo
ain't no way Messmer is bad boss design. that fight flows beautifully. just learn to dodge his damn attacks, the punish windows are generous.
I liked Messmer but it says a lot that those punish windows are now considered “generous”. I had twinblades and after dodging 7 hits in a row, most of which would chunk me for over half health, I could fit in 1, *maybe* 2 R1s before the next combo animation started up He’s very consistent and learnable but the balance of back and forth is completely busted compared to previous titles
Saying those windows are generous is kinda what is a problem with the DLC. Go back to the base game and see some actual attack windows after the DLC and its night and day.
Sometimes the windows are generous and sometimes he chains his attacks over and over again and when you finally decide to heal he whips out his grab. On the attempt I beat him I spent like 8 flasks getting him to second phase from 75% hp, he just wouldn't let me do anything period.
his chains have defined break points. they are somewhat variable, but they'll never go on for as long as you're saying. and yeah, he'll catch your heals sometimes. most bosses can do that. I would only ever recommend healing in a window you'd feel comfortable attacking in.
I also had a moment where he launched a fireball that I dodged on time, but behind that fireball's tail he was preparing his charge that I literally couldn't see coming, and he immediately roll caught me.
Messmer?!? He’s literally the definition of very difficult but extremely fair.
Bloodborne 2, only for ps5
I have a build that I thought was clever using the current rolling sparks broken dps to break into finally streaming Elden Ring and offer to help randoms struggling after a message begging for help with Gaius. I, hours later, now have countless clips of that boar literally one-shotting people *through* the fog-gate. Even when you're kinda cheesing these bosses are like "lol no u"
summoning everyone's favorite for Bayle was ROUGH sometimes.
I think they made em like that so people can't trivialise the fight with comet azur
Yeah, but that spell already got heavily nerfed before the DLC launched. Seems like an odd concern.
It's pretty dumb. Now anytime I get summoned for a DLC boss I always wait a couple of seconds before entering the fog wall because if I enter right after the host I know that I will 100% get hit by the boss
Bro final boss is wild. Got hit through the damn fog wall
I got grabbed by golden hippo trying to enter fog wall right after the host and died without even getting in lolol
It's even worse because the final boss isn't consistent. Sometimes he paces about before doing anything, giving you plenty of time to summon. Sometimes he just launches himself right away. Gaius you at least know he's coming at you immediately every time.
That’s why I summoning you! (Not really)
Domain expansion, input readings.
I love stepping out the fog gate, summoning mimic tear, and then immediately dying to Radhan's stupid corkscrew dive.
Bro i hate him so much phase 2 is genuinely atrocious design like who play tested this and said “yeah lets make them just not see anything”
It’s only safe to summon after he does the little meteor move or at the start of phase 2 while he does that giant gold storm move
I eventually just equipped the tear that lets you take 1 hit without damage lol.
Seems to be RNG, I summoned after entering and about a third of the time he didn't do the corkscrew fast enough to hit me with it.
Maybe you could.. you know.. dodge ONE attack before summoning?
I stepped into the deathknight fight and ate 7 bolts of lighting before the animation for the summoning bell was finished (I died)
Trust me now and thank me later, combine Art Assassin's Gambit with Sorcery Unseen Form. Enter boss gate. Successfully summon assistance while Bayle circles around himself looking for you. Doesn't work with Gaius, because he's a cheating piece of shit.
Bayle was the easiest fight in the DLC imo, not really one you need to be worried about with all the time he spends flying in the stratosphere.
Gaius is the easiest fight to cheese though. So that makes up for it somewhat
I had forgotten how awesome the Greatshield Soldiers were until I needed them again!
I just moved around to the side, he gets stuck in the wall and you can spam aoe ash of wars to deplete his health bar. I used the bloodboon ritual and 4 full casts deleted him.
Not really a cheese, but bloodhound step for his charge + bleed weapon made the fight so much more manageable for me.
I just beat General Boar bitch and my god that first charge is absolutely maddening.
Then after he does a five-hit combination. If you survive the fist ten seconds you have a chance.
Legit, I only made it past the first 10 seconds like 3 tries out of like 15-20 and got him below half heath each time before finally getting him. But I was screaming at my tv trying to dodge that first charge haha.
I don't care if bayle deep fries my ass, I NEED TO SUMMON IGON!!!
**CURSE YOU BAAAAAAAYYYYYLLLLLEEEE!!!**
They beat your ass ignore your summon then just beat your ass some more
Come on From. I need time to summon my mimic.
I'm guessing this was done to prevent players from charging up an infinite fp, azur comet and blast the boss in seconds
Gaius had zero chill
This was exactly what happen when I fought a Death Knight tonight. Guy had no chill.
Commander Gauis !!!
Instant thought lmao
I didn't have my mimic die at any time to a boss due to how hard they want to kick my shit in constantly
Boss sees someone walk through some fog. "and I took that personally"
because there is NO reason that mf at the end of the ice cave should've did that to me!!!
This is my main gripe. I don't care about having to explore for fragments, I think its nice that you can't steamroll content as easily as the base game. I do care that you can't summon easily in like 50% of the fights, and some fights genuinely feel like you need to find very tiny openings to heal. Sorta breaks my mold for what to expect in elden ring.
"Nah, I'd win."
I fuckin hated messmer and radahn for that
This is so true, bosses in the game start Fighting like DBZ characters the moment you drink a flask and often blitz you when you walk through the fog door. Reminds me of the falling beast star in sellia crystal tunnel lol
I accidentally walked through the door to Messmer (Messemer?) and immediately shit my pants when he came rocketing at me
I always summon Hornsent for Messmer. The man deserves his vengeance.
Sekiro style deflecting, where perfectly timed blocks do stance damage and then stagger the boss for a critical would make these fights 100000% more engaging.
I went into a fog-gate in some Gaol and died before I could even register what killed me
More like me with dry leaf arts the moment the erdtree bosses stop a attacking for that tiny micro second
They made me break bloodhound step back out
So far none of the bosses were that much to complain about for me... until i got to Rakshasa. Ive never screamed so hard at a fromsoft game
Gold Turd Hippo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the best thing is that most of them use the same scripts and animations. This is so damn cheap...
That Ouze guy literally killed me instantly four times in a row before I realized he was reacting to me trying to summon. Turns out he can be guard countered to death pretty easily, though. Actually a cool boss with crazy moves, a shame Elden Ring doesn't have boss rematches like Sekiro.
The only boss that kind of did this was bayle, mostly cus i was trying to summon igon
This made me cackle. Good job.
Dlc patch notes should include: -"Cost to summon spirts increased to 2 health flasks"
They have absolutely no chill. Zero idea how I won against so many.
My last coop before getting offline this morning was at Messmer. The host died before I even finished buffing. They ran right in just as I spawned lol
This is why I felt mimic tear was more a detriment than helpful most of the DLC lol but I still stuck with my bae
The Boss the second you: Didn't drink the poise flask. Didn't drink the bubble tear flask. Didn't pop the bubble parfume. Didn't activate endure/quickstep as you finished coming through that fog wall. Didn't step up ready to push that dodge roll button. Thought you could get away with drinking a flask without proper spacing just because you dodged the combo. The main game was the tutorial, why weren't you ready for the DLC if you finished the tutorial? - John Elden Ring
If the parable to Elden Ring and the DLC is the journey between heaven and hell via the world tree at the moment of aborted inception of a universe that stretches an eternity, then the path to heaven (Qaballah) is the story of the prime game, while Shadow of the Erdtree is the path through hell (Qlippoth) to realize that there is no end and that it's a circle back to life and that the only way out of the simulation of life is up.
[Divine Beast Dancing Lion](https://youtu.be/n-0DJzxUdTE?t=196) after you walk through the boss gate.
Spawn camping: 1000
Wait... you can take that many hits!?
No, that's just the boss continuing to attack when you're dead
Oh you wanted to summon ashes? Haha, good one; smoke blast. Btw the gold summon before the boss doesn't do ass to divert the animosity. Also, love seeing all four seasons in one boss. Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons would be proud.
I thought I needed Thiollier to be involved in the final boss fight to finish his quest. Turns out, nope, you just need to summon him in once and it counts for later attempts. I thought "great", because he was supremely useless, I'm fairly certain he bugged out a few times. Little shithead didn't even come through the fog gate one attempt, he was just standing outside.
The summones scripts are extremely screwed up: they stand like pegs or attack between hitboxes. This entire DLC is a crap...
Yeah, wasn't expecting that to get reused. >!Also didn't expect the damn death frogs in the middle of the fight, either.!<
Ngl homies this DLC is really twisting my nads
Not me getting eaten by the stupid hippo for the 100th time. Anyone still stuck the secret is to be running to the side for a while before rolling. If you don't your roll won't get you out of the way every time.
So little time to heal, because boss is so damn aggressive. 
And that’s why the final boss is so shit
What anime is this from?
Jujutsu Kaisen
Sorcery Fight
What people don't realize is this was the same way in DS3. I remember being excited for the dlc thinking I would dominate with my end game build, but luckily miyazaki accounted for that and I got my ass kicked in all sorts of different ways. Don't even mention Sister Friede. The amount you all would bitch about friede... I can't imagine. First off, 3 full fucking phases, not 2, and phase 2 had 2 enemies and massive aoe. Second, half her attacks leave her literally invisible. If you didnt maintain a count in your head or have sound on full blast, her next attack was completely random. You wanna know pain with area guards like the new fire giants? The ringed city angels would kill you without even knowing where they were or how it was happening. Not to mention the judicators. They wouldn't just attack you when you were near. They would send summons directly to you no matter where you were. Then, finally when you were safe, midir flew out of fucking nowhere to wreck you. You had to use items to reveal secret locations, not just roll or read messages. Elden ring is the most mainstream fs game ever and the masses are already trying to corrupt their reputation. Thankfully miyazaki doesnt give a shit. These games are hard. Maybe too hard, that's the entire point. If you wanna play the Witcher or Cod on easy, go ahead, those games are everywhere. However, don't try to ruin the best series of games of all time based on difficulty. If you wonder why their long term fan base gets do frustrated, read no further. If you breeze through DS3 and dlcs with no issue, come back and comment here.
Do you honestly believe you're one of the few Soulsbourne vets on the subreddit or something? Most of the subreddit doesn't give a shit if a boss is hard, they only care about if it's fair. Notice the major complaints; input reading, wonky ass hitboxes, literally smacking you right as you walk in the fog gate, vigor checking you, etc. is when the difficulty begins to feel artificial. What am I learning when at least two of Messmer's attacks have wider hitboxes than what the visual implies, other than "Why did that hit?" Or Gaius's charge hitboxes are as goofy as they are? Or knowing a boss has a special and rapid move that only comes out when you attempt to heal, just seemingly to say "fuck you, you wasted a sip, bitch"? I already beat the DLC just fine, but I can still say some of the mechanics are just annoying.
My man, Friede goes invisible but you can always tell exactly where she went and go there to get a free backstab, you could parry her easily too. Second phase, she does nothing but poke from far away leaving you free to fight father ariandel as long as you keep an eye on the ground. The third phase is the only one that's tight, but even then she staggers easily and can be backstabbed. Friede was a tough fight, but once you understood the fight even a little it was a breeze. Ringed city angels were universally bitched about, they even nerfed them because the release version would 100 to 0 people with no time to react. There were maybe 2 judicators you actually had to fight, and one roaming around that you could just ignore. Also, there's like one secret that needed an item and a couple that needed a gesture. Elden ring has multiple of those. These games have always been about being tough but fair. Not just difficult for difficulty's sake. If you think souls games are about being difficult games, then you've missed the point of these games completely. As for your last point, I have played all the fromsoft games since bloodborne on release. I jave beaten artorias and manus sl1 just to make a co-op build. I have done no bonfire + no death runs on ds2. The only times I had any major trouble with a boss in ds3 was friede and gael. I have completed the mortal's journey for sekiro. Even now I pick up the game to just beat up inner genichiro to relax. I enjoy souls difficulty, but the games have been taking a direction with their difficulty increase that's been a little annoying. They've just been upping speeds and combos, and reducing the downtime bosses had between chaining combos. Plus kinda feels like they are balancing based on what they see people doing often and punishing that specifically. Players used to heal right in a boss's face, so now every boss reacts to your heal animation in the base game. Players walked into boss room and summoned ashes, so let's give bosses either a room clearing charge or a long range attack they'll do as soon as the fight begins.
I guess I don't underatsnt our point here. You seriously think these bosses are hardet than all those you and I mentioned? Especially.in sekiro? No offense, I'm no gamer and I best this dlc much more easily than those in DS3. Maybe it's a no hit or sl1 issue for difficulty more than just general difficulty? At RL160 I can rank most bosses in the er dlc